John Lear, a former airline pilot with FAA expertise and ties to Nevada’s S-4 base, reveals classified encounters—including 1989 Navy test flights of reverse-engineered extraterrestrial craft, MJ-12’s 1947 Truman-era formation to suppress alien tech, and violent clashes like Cambodia (1972) and Ziny, Ohio, where military personnel died. He cites cryogenically stored "alien bodies" from five civilizations, dismissed public disclosure as destabilizing, and links astronauts’ psychological struggles to suppressed knowledge. Lear’s theories—time-shifting saucers, gravity beam propulsion, and Earth’s role in a 200,000-year alien experiment—suggest humanity’s existence is far more orchestrated than previously believed, with MJ-12 still pulling strings behind the scenes. [Automatically generated summary]
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Period.
It's good to be with you.
I promised you John Lear this morning.
And so it shall be.
Put a little tweak in there, didn't I?
All right, John Lear.
It's been a long time since John has been on the program.
John doesn't really do interviews to speak of.
A lot of you don't know who John Lear is, so John Lear is an airline captain.
He is that now.
He's flown 160 different types of aircraft in over 50 different countries in all types of flying.
Experimental test flying, production test flying, airline passenger flying, cargo hauling, movie work, stunt flying, aircraft ferrying, air dropping missions, air racing, and government secret missions of all kinds.
Lear has held 18 world speed records in the Learjet, including speed around the world, and holds the most FAA airman certificates issued to a single individual, which include the airline transport rating, flight instructor, ground instructor, navigator, flight engineer, flight dispatcher, airframe and power plant mechanic, control tower operator, and parachute rigger.
He has been a commercial pilot for 34 years, has been flying for 38 years.
He holds the Professional Air Traffic Controllers Award for Outstanding Airmanship presented in 1968.
He has flown missions worldwide for various government agencies.
He flew in Cambodia, Vietnam, and Laos between 1967 and 1973 and has flown extensively in Europe, the Middle East, Afghanistan, the Far East, and Africa.
As a non-sked pilot, he has over 17,000 hours of flight time, of which over 13,000 hours are in jets.
Lear's father was William P. Lear, Sr., who not only helped develop the first car radio, the 8-Track Stereo, and the automatic pilot for fighter aircraft, but who also developed, of course, the Lear jet, one of the first and most successful of all business jet aircraft.
Lear studied the industrial, studied, rather, industrial design at the Arts Center College in Los Angeles, and was a state Senate candidate in Nevada in 1980.
He has written extensively about airplanes and other subjects, was Middle East correspondent for Combat Illustrated between 1975 and 1977 while stationed in Beirut.
He is an amateur photographer and astronomer, has won several photography awards for pictures taken during his worldwide travels.
In the early 70s, John Lear owned and skippered the 12-meter America's Cup boat Soliloquy out of Marina Del Rey.
His interest in UFOs began after reading Bud Hopkins' book, Missing Time, then a chance encounter with a U.S. Air Force pilot who was at a base in England where an extraterrestrial craft landed in December of 1980.
In 1988, John met a government scientist who worked on a back-engineering program of recovered extraterrestrial flying saucers for the Department of Naval Intelligence at a secret base within the Nevada test site known only as S-4.
This scientist not only explained how these craft traveled many times faster than the speed of light, but in March of 1989 took John to a remote desert location to watch the Navy test fly one of those extraterrestrial craft.
John, who no longer gives lectures on the subject of UFOs and has no plans, incidentally, to write a book, is currently a DC-8 captain with a major cargo carrier, has four daughters, and lives in Las Vegas with his wife, Mera Lee.
So that's a pretty full plate for anybody's life, I would say, and a little fuller than mine has been, certainly, and I think most.
In just one moment, we'll get to John Lear, and I think you'll find him more than just a little fascinating.
The End Now, ladies and gentlemen, here comes John Lear.
John, well, wait a minute.
Let me put you on hold there and bring you up here.
John, it's been a long time since we've had you on the program.
I mean, this is quite a resume you've got, and that's a lot to do in a life.
And then all of a sudden, at some point, you decided to mix into all of this, which is enough for about two people normally, and you got Involved in UFOs.
You've given me this timeline, and I do appreciate it.
I would like to go back over the history a little bit with you, John, and pick your brain about what you know about the incidents that you have listed for me.
Yeah, it really did with the Ken Arnold sightings.
But now, there's been a lot that happened before that.
There was a recovery, I think, in 1941, I think in Arizona.
And there was a lot of activity during World War II.
But really, modern ufology started in 1947 with the recovery, well, first with Ken Arnold sighting up in Seattle, I think it was, and then the recovery of the craft in Roswell, New Mexico.
Well, the Ken Arnold sightings was when he saw those nine discs flying through the air.
He was out on a search and rescue mission.
And he saw these discs, and when He landed, the reporters wanted to know what he saw, and he said, well, they look kind of like saucers, and that was the first coining of the term flying saucers.
And this happened like in late June of 1947, and coincidentally, just like a week later, was this recovery of the craft in Roswell.
Yeah, at least there's just hundreds of references in the Bible, and before that, Chinese and Indian records record saucers, you know, up to 4,000 or 5,000 years ago.
I interviewed the author of the book The Truth About the UFO Crash at Roswell the other day, and he did a pretty good job of documenting what I guess is - would you say it is the best documentation of something that has happened?
Well, at that time, 1985, when I first got in, I think then there was over 200 witnesses that were still alive that had either touched or loaded or seen the craft and the bodies.
And a good portion of those people are still alive now.
But there was just overwhelming evidence that this occurred.
There's theories, and I don't think it's so much so important as one happened, the fact that it did happen.
Now, some people say there was two craft, and one landed, and one crashed on the Magdalena Flats about 100 miles east of Roswell, and then there was a craft or portions of a craft that landed on the Braswell Ranch there near Corona.
But whatever did happen, they certainly collected a large amount of debris, and there was a lot of people involved in this effort.
But what was so interesting is the preparedness of the military to deal with this.
There was no confusion.
They knew exactly what to do.
They knew exactly what they had, and that it must be kept a secret.
The information is legitimate, not necessarily the documents.
President Truman certainly formed MJ-12 on September 24, 1947.
There's enough evidence in government documents that he did have a meeting with certain people and did form this body, which, of course, has been in charge ever since.
The charter of MJ-12 Was basically to research the craft, determine what it was made of, whether there was a threat to this country, and to determine what should be done to tell, if at all, the public about what was going on.
People talk, John, about this current administration, the Clinton administration, and how open they've been with the nuclear, you know, the tests that were done, the awful things that were done.
And they have hopes that they will also be open about UFOs and maybe tell us what's going on.
When I first got into what they call ufology, and I think it's a dumb name, but when I first got interested in this and realized the overwhelming impact of what was going on and the cover-up that had been in place for so many years, I got up on my soapbox and did lectures and said, hey, you've got to listen to me.
There's something going on here that we should all be aware of.
And then that was like 1985.
Now in September of 1994, I believe that the government was correct to cover it up.
And as short as three or four years ago, I still thought they were planning to gradually release the information so that the public would not panic, but accept this.
And now I don't think they ever had any intention of doing that.
And I don't think they have today.
And as odd as it may sound, I kind of go along with it.
I believe that the public does not have a need to know.
They certainly don't have a right to know.
There's so many aspects to this thing that would really disrupt public life as we know it that I don't think they had any intention of doing it.
The only reason that they would maybe be forced to do it is if there was a crash or a landing that absolutely could possibly not be denied.
And they have facilities and teams in place to prevent things like that ever happening.
There have been saucers that have crashed very, very near to cities, and it's been completely covered up.
They have teams that go out, and it's their business to be sure that the public never finds out.
And if this includes relocating personnel or even terminating personnel that have seen this unauthorized, either accidental or on purpose, they go to that extent.
I heard of one that landed, didn't crash, but landed just maybe a few miles outside of downtown Albuquerque.
And these teams are located all over the United States.
They're in underground facilities.
They have helicopters.
They have people who are technicians and heavy equipment operators who have passes and authority to go to any civilian or military base and drive right off with this heavy equipment.
And their job is to go and keep this from being seen.
And one of the first things they do is they have these portable walls that are put in place.
And then they secure the area.
If it's like near a freeway, what they can do is have a heavy truck purposely have a wreck right there to block the freeway several miles from the crash or the landing.
They can also start fires.
They do really interesting things to keep the people from seeing them.
Anyway, they erected these portable walls around this thing, and everybody stood around trying to figure out what to do.
I think it was there for about five hours, and then all of a sudden it just left.
Aztec recovery was a saucer crash in Aztec, New Mexico, and they recovered a few bodies from that one.
It's not sure where they got their first live alien, but they were named EBE's Extraterrestrial Biological Entities by Dr. Detliff Bronck, who was one of the first members of MJ-12.
At some point in that 47, 48, 49, they recovered their first live alien.
The Mantel incident is separate from that.
That was the P-51 crash piloted by Thomas Mantel over, I'm trying to think it was in Kentucky.
And he got up to about 30,000 feet.
He was on clear communication, and he said, I have it in sight.
It's enormous, a thing of tremendous size.
And then the next thing they knew, this P-51 crashed in the field.
It was completely disintegrated.
There are stories that Mantel's body was not in the crash, but I don't know for sure.
But that was the Mantel incident, and that occurred in the same year as the Aztec recovery.
In upstate New York, his house was built in the shape of a saucer, and he called it the mothership.
Anyway, in a conversation with Nixon, he said, you know, was there any chance of getting to see the bodies?
And Nixon said, yeah, sure.
They finished their golf game.
They went over and got in the presidential helicopter, and they went to Homestead Air Force Base, which was right near where they were playing, and golf, and he was shown the bodies.
Once again, my guest, John Lear, who has flown in jet aircraft for many, many thousands of hours and pressed a little bit, now recalls one incident where he saw something or another.
Well, it was like 1966 or so, and I was descending in a Lear jet from, I was on a flight from Wichita to Los Angeles, and descending speed like 30,000 feet.
And I was headed westbound, and from my left to my right, I saw what I thought at the time was a NASA lifting body, that X-24 or one of those type things.
Remember the one that the $6 million man crashed in?
And it went by, and I mentioned it to the co-pilot.
When I landed, I distinctly remember calling Hank Beard, who was chief test pilot at Learjet, and I said, man, you'll never guess what I saw today.
And he said, what?
And I said, a lifting body passed me.
And only after, you know, 25 or 30 years do I look back and say how ridiculous that was because under no stretch of the imagination would a lifting body be in the main approach corridor for the Los Angeles International Airport.
There was one that happened in Cambodia and one that happened in Zini, Ohio.
The one at Ziny, Ohio was an encounter between the occupants of an alien craft and a U.S. military detachment, and there was 11 American casualties and an unknown number of aliens.
And one of the researchers met a guy who worked at the Off Limitary at Wright-Pat who claims to have seen bodies on litters arriving at the base during that timeframe.
It really did sound outrageous then, but you know something?
I've been interviewing a lot of ufologists, scientists, scholars, people who have said things that when they say them, John, they suddenly hearken back to some of the early interviews that I did with you, and I'll say to myself, sometimes out loud, I'll be damned.
You know, I remember John said that, and a lot of people guffawed, and here we are.
I mean, a lot of that stuff that you told me, John, has been coming back recently.
And a lot of investigators, John, are beginning to go down some of the same roads you did.
Back then, you were one of the only ones saying, look, these guys are not necessarily warm, fuzzy, nice people who wish us well.
And you were almost alone then.
But now, let me tell you, John, more people than not are beginning to join you in that view.
Okay, now the Dulcie incident I first heard about in 1986 or 1987 when I was invited to be part of a group of researchers who met at Crestone, Colorado, and we just traded information.
And I was handed a letter by one of the guys who had gotten this letter from a person who lived in Las Vegas and said, why don't you research this?
And it talked about this underground base, and it was founded so far out.
But I met with this person, and she had known one of the officers who had worked inside this base and originally told about the massacre at Dulcie.
I further heard a story by a guy named Paul Benowitz, who lived in Albuquerque, who was involved in this, and he told me about it also.
And the story went that in 1979, we had 44 scientists who were being instructed by the aliens in some subject.
I don't know what it was, but they were being instructed at Dulcie.
And for some reason, it was agreed that our security force, our Delta force, would not carry conventional weapons at any time in this classroom or around this area.
And for some reason, one of the officers walked in with a conventional sidearm, and the alien killed him outright.
Now, how that was done, I don't know.
But on the video, on the monitor, his compatriots, or the Delta Force, saw that he was killed, and they went down en masse to exact revenge.
And it ended up that all 44 scientists and about 66 of the Delta Force were killed.
It was just a complete massacre.
So I just put this in the file.
It was an interesting story.
And it didn't come up again until Bob Lazar, who worked at S4, and we'll get into that later, read a report that documented this massacre.
Now, the only thing different about the report that he read was that in the report he read, the massacre occurred somewhere around Area 51 at Groom Lake.
and it's essential that this kind of thing happen or kind of go this way because they don't want to have to take the time to explain away the death of a relative so the people who do these things are screened specially for this kind of work which includes not...
very specially They can go to the family and say, look, we're going to give you an annual or monthly stipend, but this is national security, and it's for God and country.
Yeah, Bentwaters occurred during three days in the end of December.
We have a United States Air Force base about 70 miles northeast of London called Bentwaters.
At that time, I think it still is, an A-10 base, the Warthog tank killer.
And very strange things happened during those three days, culminating with the, it wasn't a landing, it was an appearance of a very weird aircraft witnessed by General.
General Gordon Williams, who was the base commander, Major Ted Conrad, Colonel Chuck Halt, Larry Warren, and a few others.
But at any rate, the incident did occur, but it was just a story.
as far as I was concerned.
Many pilots had heard it.
And in 1985, I ran into a friend here in Las Vegas, an Air Force friend that I knew in Laos.
And he was transferring from the regular Air Force to the Guard, and he came over to the house, and we started talking about stuff.
And I mentioned, you know, I asked where he'd been based, and he mentioned Pentwaters.
And I said, oh, that's supposedly where that saucer landed in 1980.
He said, no, John, not supposedly.
It did.
He said, I didn't see it because I was confined to quarters, but I know the guys who did.
And he said, I'll give you their names.
And I said, wait a minute.
You're telling me this stuff is real, that there are flying saucers?
Because at this time, I had no real interest in this stuff.
This was when Linda Howe was contacted by MJ-12 in order to do a documentary, and they said that they would make available to her many, many thousands of feet of saucers and whatnot.
And they wanted her to write a documentary that would be presented on HBO.
And she contacted HBO, and HBO said, we'll do it, but before we air it, we want a filmed interview with the President, his Chief of Staff, and his National Security Council saying that this is true.
And MJ-12 essentially led her on a round-robin, so to speak, of different bases and different facilities and all kinds of things for about eight months.
There was no more contact, and only a few years later did she run into somebody who was involved in that, and they said, I'm sorry it turned out the way it did, Linda, but we had no option.
It was an enormous, enormous craft, and it followed him for an hour.
He was on his way from Keflovik, Iceland, to Anchorage, fuel stop in Anchorage, and then on to Japan.
And about an hour out of Anchorage at 33,000 feet this night, this thing appears in front of the aircraft.
And it was not a passenger flight, it was cargo, and so there's only three guys in the convent, but they all thought radar had it.
Recurring to be sure it wasn't some gigantic reflection of some sort.
They went down to 29,000 feet to see if it would follow them, and it did.
And then after about an hour, it just left, and they landed, gave their FAA report.
And other than a few comical news stories, they ignored by the press, specifically by Aviation Week and Space Technology, who is our premier aviation magazine, doesn't give it one word, not even a sentence.
Well, for all your flying, John, and the one incident you have had that may have been something like that, you must talk to all kinds of other captains, lots of friends in the industry.
We're getting up toward the modern day here, but first, let us look at 1987 and particularly the Gulf Breeze sightings, because that's still going on, John.
It's still going on.
We're getting photographs.
There have been recent photographs, one, which is a very picture.
A lot of people are following up on that right now.
And the same gentleman at Gulf Breeze continually seeing these craft.
What is your assessment of what happened at Gulf Breeze?
Well, I first heard about it in 1987 when the Channel 4, I believe it was down there, put out the documentary, and it had Ed Walter's film that he took out the back door of this craft hovering behind the tree line there, just over the tree line.
And it was tremendously interesting.
There was no doubt in my mind from the videotape that this thing occurred.
But there were so many people jumped on it as a hoax, and they just did backflips to try and prove it was a hoax.
But in my opinion, it was not.
It was a true thing.
And Ed Walters just took a tremendous amount of flack over the years for showing this film and for saying the things he did.
Neil Armstrong, on the occasion of the anniversary of the Apollo mission to the moon, was at the White House about three weeks ago now, I guess, four weeks ago, something like that.
Anyway, Neil Armstrong rarely does public appearances, rarely has anything to say, but when he does, wow.
What he said, and I took this quote directly from the NBC Evening News, was as follows, quote, and he said this at the White House, quote, there are great ideas undiscovered, breakthroughs available to those who can remove one of truth's protective layers.
There are places to go beyond belief, end quote, Neil Armstrong.
And that's one of the ways in which they keep this secret is through it's called pain, drugs, hypnosis, where when they tell you this stuff, they give you a briefing, and it involves pain, it involves drugs, it involves hypnosis, so that it doesn't bother you that much, but it doesn't always work on everybody.
And they know they have this knowledge, and it's hard to know something with the ramifications of this kind of thing and not be able to be able to tell somebody.
John, just before we go to the phones, you have said, and this really is very different than a lot of ufologists today, that you've come to the conclusion that while you were digging in earlier years so that the world might know, you now don't think we ought to know, or that we have a right to know, or that it would be good for us to know, or how do you explain that and why?
This is something that, as irritating as it might be, it's none of their business.
There's nothing they can do to influence or modify it in any way.
It's best they just go on with their lives and pay their taxes, find something they enjoy, boating, sailing, growing lawn or something like that, and get on with their life.
Because there's no reason to know this.
And if they knew the true ramifications of this, it would bother them.
It would eventually result in the breakdown of society.
Sounds like if the U.S. has some of this technology that it really wouldn't be too big of a problem being confronted with other nations like Russia with their type of military.
Do you think this type of technology can be implemented in such cases like war or anything like that?
And what that was was they put a rock in an anointed chamber and gave it a pulse like hello.
And the rock absorbed the vibrations, and by measuring the vibrations, about a half a second later, measuring the vibrations, they could pull out the word hello.
Well, in 25 or 30 years later, what they have now is a means to beam into a room and pulling off, measuring the vibrations that have been given any of the crystal structure like glass or windows or any like that, and pull out a conversation that was held seven days ago.
It's kind of like when you say this, and I guess we had to cover it, John, but when you say this, it's like putting a box on the table that says, do not open this box, and then just leaving it there, and everybody who comes past will inevitably open the box.
I can prove right now that what Mr. Lear is saying is the opposite of the truth because the U.S. government is not covering up information about the existence of extraterrestrial life.
Government intelligence agencies have been spreading the rumor that aliens are among us to UFO researchers, and this has been documented by Jacques Valet in his book, Revelations.
For example, in 1983, the proven disinformation agent, Richard Doty at Kirtland Air Force Base, invited Linda Howe to that Air Force Base and showed her these alleged secret documents claiming aliens among us.
Then in 1985, Jacques Fillet and J. Allen Hynek were invited to Norton Air Force Base by some generals there and told that aliens are among us.
And I think it's all a lie, and I have a reason for it.
You said you had proof, sir, so go ahead and lay it out.
unidentified
The proof is what I just told you, and if you just get Jacques Villais' book, Revelations, that proves that the government isn't hiding it.
It's pushing it on UFO researchers.
And the reason for this reverse psychology disinformation campaign was stated by Stanton Friedman when he said that a belief in alien life would cause people to lose their faith in the value of nation-states and lead to the acceptance of world government, which is exactly what the power elite who control the government wants, since their multinational corporations have the most to gain from globalism.
And also out of this reaction, they pull off the gravity A wave without going into details, they use to propel themselves across the universe at speeds hundreds of times faster than the speed of light.
I'm calling to ask Mr. Lear about the three different kinds of aliens.
I did a subscribe to a newsletter, and it talks about all the government research, and the different types of ships are different aliens from different sectors in the universe.
And there's the reptilian form, the insectoid, and the human type.
Now, Mr. Lear, you say there are things you don't want to talk about for religious purposes, but I wanted to tell a story that I believe is true.
All the cosmonauts reported seeing these huge angelic-like beings with their arms crossed and a smile on their face like they knew something was going to happen.
And that was before Chernobyl blew up.
And John Glenn reports seeing something on Freedom 7 flight.
I once wondered, as have many people, and I'm going to make you tell me it's not true again, whether you and Mr. Lazar have thought of trying to construct something to traverse time.
But, you know, so few of us get to see those things.
Now, for instance, I'd love to see one.
I saw the one that Bob took me up to, and I saw that at night.
Now, my wife, Marilee, who didn't believe in any of this before, as a matter of fact, you know, it almost came to, it almost split up our family because of my interest in this.
She's from Mississippi, and she just didn't believe any of it.
And here in 1986, I was on a flight to Frankfurt, and she and my daughter, Jackie, are out in the garden gardening.
And about 2 o'clock in the afternoon, and Jackie looks up and she says, hey, mom, look, a UFO.
And they look up, and here's two of them at a very low altitude, less than a quarter of a mile away.
They were going, I live right near Nellis Air Force Base.
They were coming from Nellis and went around to the southern part of Sunrise.
Now, that's an extremely rare sighting tooth in the daytime.
And it really changed her opinion.
Of course, she says, well, I saw him, but I still don't believe him.
Well, there certainly hasn't been a good sighting in, say, two years.
And so there's a facility in northern Nevada where they do a lot of testing.
Now, whether they do UFO testing, I don't know.
But there is a major facility up there.
There's also an increased activity down at Holloman, which seems to be just the new secret aircraft we've got.
But yeah, there definitely doesn't seem to be as much testing as there used to be.
Just after Bob and I started Talking about this, you used to be able to go up the test site and see all kinds of weird stuff, but there just aren't any sightings anymore.
Yeah, and I just don't really understand what the big deal is because, like, in 1980, there was at least 30 AAOs, which are air access-only areas in the United States, at which, you know, all this weird stuff went on.
So, you know, Groom Lake is just one of a number of facilities.
No, but that's an interesting thing, a dark light.
I haven't heard that before.
unidentified
Yeah, you ought to read the Tibetan Book of the Dead.
And I would recommend people like you to get in touch with people like, say, the Dalai Lama and talk to them about this kind of stuff and see what they think.
Well, people that are realized or that have studied mystical or metaphysical stuff that are, you know, that are in that genre.
You will affect the immediate sphere or time that you commit this act in, but somehow time will bend back in on itself and everything will self-correct and you'll still be there somehow.
Sure, if you want a tape of this program, the first two hours we spent on a very careful chronicling of UFO history, John's involvement in it, and all the rest of it, you can get a tape by calling right now, Area Code 503-664-7966.
Let me give that again.
Area code 503-664-7966.
And on the east of the Rockies line, you're on the air with John Lear.
Second of all, without getting very in-depth at all about religion, because I know that's a touchy subject, but do these civilizations, alleged civilizations, do they purport to be religious the way we're talking about?
Well, in answer to your question, let me tell you what Whitley Stryber said about that when he was abducted, and he's absolutely, horrendously terrified, and he's screaming, and he's saying, oh, God, oh, God, help me, God, God, please help me.
And the little grays are looking down, and very coolly they've said, why do you call for your God?
Mr. Lear, I want to thank you on behalf of everyone listening for coming on the show.
Thoroughly entertaining.
Well, thank you.
You seem to be hitting everything right on.
For people that call up, they've read a book or they are real religious.
They obviously haven't been following some of the stuff covered on this show.
The cover-up, the military involvement, politics, everything.
You seem to be right on.
I respect the fact that you don't want to go into the religion aspect because I've read a little bit, I think, of what you've outlined there in a couple of different books.
But again, the astronauts, the whole thing of keeping quiet.
People can't understand why the mill, why aren't they talking about this?
And that this stuff really is happening.
I'm getting announcements on our station here in KSD that say this is a warning.
This is not the views of this station.
It is shocking.
It's very shocking.
A lot of this is.
Except my religious beliefs are simply I believe above all else, above anything else, that there is the God, God, the creator of all things.
And why can these things be happening?
God takes care of other elements of nature in accordance with the plan.
Why can this not be somewhat along an overall plan?
They don't, but let me tell you a story that Bob Lazar told me once.
We're talking about the universe and the ramifications of it all, and he's telling me about the theory that the universe expands until it can't go any further, and then it starts contracting.
And time reverses, and everything comes down to its original size, less than an atom size, and then starts spreading out the other direction, whereas things only exist that travel faster than speed of light.
And so we came to the conclusion, now, whoever made that, that's God.
And I was wondering if he could give us some comments about the other two areas of S4 that Mr. Lazar talks about, about the physics of time travel and the charged particle beams.
John Lear is my guest pilot, experienced pilot, many thousands and thousands of hours in the air, and believer in IFOs, identified flying objects.
John's coming back right now.
John, there is a way people can get the videotape that the caller mentioned about Bob Lazar's experiences and his explanation of what these craft are and how they work.
It's called the Lazar Tape and Excerpts of the GovernmentGot Bible, which is a chronological account of government UFO activity details and Bob's experience working with recovered flying saucers for the Department of Naval Intelligence.
It explains the propulsion, construction, and details of where the aliens are from, including what Dr. Keller has to say about Bob Lazar.
Yeah, I'd like to say something about the Bible, one of the most important books in the history of mankind.
The New Testament, like much of the Old Testament, is in many places a greatly altered version of the original accounts on which it is based.
In addition, probably less than 5% of all that Jesus and his original followers taught is found in the Bible.
Many of these changes and deletions to the New Testament were made by special church councils.
The editing process began as early as 325 A.D. during the First Council of Micaiah and continued well into the 12th century.
For example, the Second Synod Church Council of Constantinople in 553 A.D. deleted from the Bible Jesus' reference to reincarnation, an important concept.
unidentified
Yeah.
I just wanted to be sure that I got that on, about the bright light, not the dark light.
Well, because according to Whitley, if you go to the bright light, you have made a conscious choice of which direction to go.
And supposedly, according to him, at that point, if you go to the white light, the graves or whoever's in charge of this thing can decide what to do with you.
Now, they can either send you back into another body or they can put you in the black box.
Now, the reason that I wouldn't choose the white light is I don't want to spend what Whitley says is anywhere from 12 to 40,000 years in the black box.
He was in there, and he says it's a very frightening experience.
Now, I don't mind being by myself.
I could probably spend a couple years by myself, but I'm not sure whether I could spend 40,000 years.
Whereas if you go towards the dark, you come right back into a terrestrial body, and you can continue on with whatever body you got into.
Yes, obviously something happened during the Philadelphia experiment.
Now, whether that boat actually disappeared or not, I don't know, but there's enough evidence that something very, very strange happened during that time due to the government's research into magnetism.
Yes, he filed his report in 1969 when he ran for president.
One of his platforms was, I believe in UFOs because I personally see one, and if I am elected president, I will see that all information about UFOs is turned over to the public.
Naturally, when he became president, we didn't hear one word, and that's because the presidents are briefed to a certain extent on the problem.
Now he's he's uh he may be partially right because uh uh he obviously uh was in the community, but there are certain parts of Delta which are unknown to other parts.
So it's possible that you're correct and that it was just a secret, very secret portion of Delta Court.
She definitely is very religious, and she had a very religious experience during her abduction.
I think that whoever they are who pick us up catered to those specific beliefs.
unidentified
Oh, yeah, that was basically my question.
I didn't know if your beliefs followed along those lines because they were sort of similar to the lights and putting people back in the bodies and that sort of thing.
And I was just curious if you knew about that and if you had any thoughts on it.
And in 1952, I read a book by a man named Guzzev called All in Everything.
And there he talked about the spaceship Karna going all over the place.
Then I went to Europe to work with a Guzzov group.
But in 1955, we weren't on the air with commercial television in London.
And we had a couple there, and I can't remember their name.
But we had a half-hour show, and the man who was interviewing them was really trying to break them down that they were ponies, which he couldn't, of course.
After that, I invited them home.
We went to dinner, went to my place, and we talked about Guzjev in his book.
And these people were very authentic.
And I do remember the name.
They were a married couple.
And we went to a few of the group meetings in London then.
This was back in 1955, 56.
And these were all what I call good, wholesome people, not phony, baloney type people.
And of course, I lost touch with them then.
But I wonder if he's familiar, Johnny, you're familiar with Gurdjieff's book, All in Everything?
Where he talks about Karnik, the good chip Karnik, I'm not catching the last name.
And he wrote the book way back in the 40s called All in Everything.
And as I said, then subsequently when I was with this couple in London, and I don't remember their name, but I remember going to several groups, and this was back in the 50s.
John, I have a young man who has what he believes is an alien creature, the body of an alien creature, which is now dried.
It's pretty good size.
It's very hard to describe, John.
I've got very good 35mm photographs of it, and I've got a videotape of it as well.
I'm getting them scanned and put up on the Internet probably by the middle of next week.
The thing looks...
It's pretty good size.
It's a couple of feet tall, two or three feet tall, and it is very, very weird.
Now, without seeing it, it would be impossible for you to comment, but it supposedly came from Puerto Rico, where there's been quite a bit of UFO activity, hasn't there?
Yeah, yeah.
And so I will show you that photograph when I get a chance, John, and then you'll be able to comment.
Well, basically, what I was calling about is just to throw out another theory here, as these things do happen, is essentially, you know, like, first off, I don't really buy that some alien creatures are really buying, using people as food because a simple fact would be easier to kidnap a group of people to and then breed them as cattle, would it not?
Well, anyways, some of the other things, like you said, like when they encountered them in Cambodia and the special forces had a firefight with them, it would be a very good place to collect human bodies to study the anatomy because you wouldn't have to worry about taking them and then probably bringing them back and things like that.
I mean, when you look at the Earth, it's a hustle and bustle of activity and growth and beings and intelligence, and it's a contrast to everything around it, right?
Yeah, their handiwork being the breeding of the human race over 200,000 years in which they made 65 separate corrections to make us what we are today, which they refer to as containers.
You know, I doubt if the experiment is over.
I think that it's continuing on.
Each of these separate corrections, they have to, you know, when they bring in the new model, they have to recall the old model.
And they do that with mass plagues, floods, gyroscopic precessions of the Earth, which I might mention, all this EPA and BLM and stuff about, you know, carefully burying our trash.
You know, every 23,000 years, this Earth rotates on its axis and takes up a different rotation, and it essentially cleans everything out.
So why are we so worried?
We're about 1,000 years overdue for this rotation.
You're not having some of that famous New Mexico Towels hum right now, are you?
unidentified
No, I do hear strange noises once in a while, and they sound like a diesel truck in the distance or machinery clanging around, but some of it I think I'm hearing construction going on on the base.
Now, was your sightings within the Montzana weapons storage area, Coyote Canyon?
unidentified
Well, I was on the highway driving home, and this was a large orange-glowing sphere that went over my car, and it was heading due south into that area.
As a matter of fact, when I first got into this, Paul Benowitz had just lived in the Four Hills section there, and he set up in 1980 a videotape which ran 24 hours a day.
He'd change it every eight hours, and he got some spectacular photos of dome-shaped objects taking off from the Montbeno-up and storage area.
unidentified
Well, I sometimes wonder if they're saying that there's less action going on up in Nevada.
They don't know each other, but they have told me that they were involved.
One worked for the contractor, and the other worked for somebody in the architectural design firm that built all these underground bunkers back in the early 80s out there.
And they said that these bunkers were as big as football fields, solid concrete, they were huge, and of course nobody knew what they were being built for.
Once again, here I am, and I want to repeat, we spent the first two hours of the program, if you didn't get it, doing a pretty thorough examination of the history of UFOs and the beginning of John's involvement.
And if you want a copy of this program, the way to get it, get your pencil, please, is to call area code 503-664-7966.
Yes, Mr. Lear, I believe in the Bible and like to talk to you about the nephilum and how that could correlate into these things that you and Art have been describing and also the fact that Linda Howe reported on these cattle mutilations that maggots on flies wouldn't touch the carcasses for days.
Now that's something that seems a bit unnatural to me.
And I'd like to ask you, throughout the Bible, there is a conflict of good and evil.
And these things that you guys are describing do not sound very good to me.
I think that because we couldn't imagine an advanced society not being warm and fuzzy.
We figure, well, shoot, you know, after all that civilization thousands of years ahead of us, they certainly must have worked out their problems and just want to come down and help us and cure cancer and AIDS and help us get to, you know, cure our food problem and all the rest of it.
I mean, certainly reinforced by Steven Spielberg and his close encounters and all that.
And I wanted to ask John what he thought of the possibility that the deaths at Dulcie were somehow related to the introduction or the further introduction of the AIDS virus into population, and also what his feelings are about the government being somehow involved in the development of the AIDS virus.
Well, as I've said before, there's no question in my mind that the government developed it.
The specific doctor, the Navy doctor that actually did the research, I believe his name was R.M. Donner.
And, yeah, we made it.
What it was for, I don't know.
Some people say it was to eliminate or decrease the population, but certainly there ought to be better ways to do it because AIDS takes a long time to effect, and also it causes a lot of suffering.
I think our hospitals would be overtaxed before it would start reducing the population.
So when people say, well, it's just the government trying to reduce the population, possibly, but you think even they would be able to figure out a quicker way to do it.
Well, I know that there was congressional testimony.
It's on the record, John, an inquiry of some scientists about whether such a thing could be created that would produce or suppress the human immune system.
I think most of us believe that a power far greater than ourselves had something to do with this.
It's just too complex.
All right, on the toll-free line, you're on the air with John Lear.
Good morning.
unidentified
Okay, hi, good morning.
I'd like to say that just out of common sense, and it's one entity and stuff like that, there probably is, even if there is one entity, I'm not saying there probably is, but even if there is, and I go through life and have to go see Human Judgment Day, I'm going to appeal to a higher court because he's got peers.
I mean, I don't understand how you think you can come back to a time that you can go forward unless you're talking about this gravitational thing where you hold off and you're just thinking you go forward in time and you're never leaving the time that you're letting your time stand still while you're gone.
Oh, I will tell you this, that in my brief career as a ufologist, I've state several predictions, two or three of them, and they've all turned out false.
So I may be a good researcher, but I'm a terrible prophet.
Yeah, I think that what he's trying to do is figure out how they can get from place to place without violating the speed of light.
And because they don't have access to the real information of how it works, they invent stuff like wormholes.
But the way it works is called the instantaneous propagation of gravity.
Science doesn't know it yet, but gravity is instantaneous, and there's two forms of it, A and B. And basically, to travel hundreds of times faster than the speed of light, what you do is generate a very powerful beam of gravity and pull space towards you.
You know, in the fear that some people have of what John is talking about, they must understand that whatever experience that we have as humans or humanoids or whatever, it's a very good experience.
And obviously, whoever and whatever has created us, and whatever use that we have for them, we have use for ourselves too.
And that there's such, I mean, there's so much love and joy in life, opposed to the diversity, which there's plenty of that too.
But the mind has to, the mind that was given to us and the spirituality that we have needs to be used.
And I think that's what he's talking about when he says, go on and live your life, even though you have more information.
You get to make your life and have fun and do whatever you want.
unidentified
Right.
Can you tell me if there's in the other dimensions of what you're talking about in the 70 or so groups, do they show any sign of their own spirituality?
I'm not talking about religion here at all, but of a separate spirituality or a more intense spirituality or just different?
It just seems that when you talked about, and one thing that I'd like you to expound upon a little bit is when you refer to that somehow humans were considered to be containers.
And to elaborate on that, within the MJ-12 intelligence community, there's a great disdain for elected and appointed officials, which is why the President or the Congress or any other appointed officials don't know very much.
Security clearances work like this.
The lowest security clearance you can get is top secret.
Above that, there's 28 levels of which is called top secret crypto, and they run through 1 through 28, 28 being the highest.
Above that, there's 10 names, like Umbra, Amber, Ultra, the top being Majestic.
Now, the President of the United States has a clearance about top secret crypto of 17.
He doesn't know very much.
He doesn't need to know very much.
He's kind of a figurehead.
So they tell him, you know, a little bit.
They tell him probably that there's recovered vehicles and that they maybe have a dead body or so, but he doesn't know the whole story.
He doesn't need to know the whole story to perform his job.
I have a few problems with some things you said, Mr. Lear.
Scientific, but I want to address the biblical issue first.
You indicated that the Bible had been changed at the time of Constantine, is that correct?
Right.
Are you aware that the patriarchs in the early part of the second century in their letters and apologetics had already included almost all the verses of the New Testament in their letters?
This is more than a hundred years before Constantine.
And so that we can find almost all the New Testament just in their letters of writing to each other in the apologetics.
And that there has been a copy of the whole book of Mark found in Egypt, dated at the 125 after Christ, after A.D. And when they calculate how long it would have taken to get that deep into Egypt, it would have existed before the turn of the century.
Okay, now the changes that I'm talking about are 325 A.D. during the first council of Nicaea.
unidentified
I know the date, and I'm saying that almost the complete New Testament is already found in the writings of what we call the patriarchs, some of them which were disciples of John, in the first part of the second century.
And so if we already have the New Testament in letters written back and forth, plus we have a whole book of Mark found in around 120, our Gallagher's date of 125 A.D., then you have even secular historians agreeing that Luke, who wrote the Gospel of Luke in the Acts, is a first-rate historian and had to have been there.
And so I'm wondering where you come up with this conclusion.
I've heard this theory before and questioned people about it, and they insist on it.
But then when you present them with the fact that the New Testament can be recovered from documents before the time they say they were changed, they just kind of go on and don't discuss it anymore.
Well, they may be recovered, but they're not in the King James Version.
unidentified
Well, that has nothing to do with the reliability.
When you do textual analysis, it's not based on when the King James is written.
It's based on the number of manuscripts and how old they are and how much they change over a period of time.
Even for the Old Testament, we even have the Dead Sea Scrolls, a good part of the book of Isaiah recovered that we find has changed very little with what we have today.
I'm just saying your conclusions, you say you do careful research, and apparently you didn't know that the New Testament was known and can be found in manuscripts older than before Constantine was ever born.
I'm just saying that they didn't make it to the King James Version and most people have access to it.
unidentified
So these manuscripts still exist and we can compare them to the King James Version.
Now, as for science, I'm always upset when people talk about science, but ignore the fact that when they start talking about things that are supernatural, they still include it science.
And I'm going to give you one example.
When you talk about time travel, one of our most basic laws is conservation of energy and matter.
Now, if someone comes from another time into this time dimension and brings their matter with them, they have added matter and broken the law of conservation of energy and matter.
By definition, when something breaks our natural laws, we call it supernatural.
But everybody seems to want to bring it under the umbrella of science instead of call it what it is.
I'll explain that in a second, but I just want to say something to John Lear.
John, everyone around here said he worked for Air America, and I don't want to go into that.
About the sonar sound, three sentences.
Thanks to Congressman Sam Farr, a sonar device that might have threatened the environment has been indefinitely delayed.
The Scripps Institute of Oceanography and the Defense Department's Advanced Research Projects Agency have stopped the project's development in order to conduct an EIS.
The $35 million device, part of the Acoustic Thermometry of Ocean Climate ATOC program, would be placed off the coast of Point Sur in the Monterey National Marine Sanctuary.
Okay, well, let's suppose that's true, and I can't say anything different than that.
I would like to say also, you mentioned the book The Gods of Eden.
There has recently been released on the Internet an excellent, in my opinion, review of this book that says that it's pretty much based on L. Ron Hubbard's Scientology.
No, because I read a book about ten years ago called The Cosmic Trigger, Final Secrets of the Illuminatas, and how they were going to duplicate the second coming of Christ with the alien deal that people would believe that they were going to be saved by aliens.
And Mossad, who was running the operation, didn't want to send the 707th in, which I was flying.
So they canceled the operation.
Later, I think it was like six or eight months later, they ran it with another airline that was out of, oh, somewhere like NASA or Nassau or someplace like that, and ran it from the Persian Gulf, like Dubai or one of those countries, directly into Iran.
So they didn't have to go around another country like we did, Turkey.
We had to go through Turkish airspace.
And the deal was that we would drop every other load or give Turkey every other load that went in in permission for flying over their airspace.
I don't really know too much about UFOs, so this might be a real basic question, but can you tell me about navigation of these crafts and what they'd be built of?
Well, in that movie and in descriptions of Roswell, there is a number of witnesses, John, who say that a piece of material from one of those craft was held, and they showed it in Roswell, and you could crumple it up, and it would spring right back out again.
You know, they've been, several documents said that they are deceptive.
And I was going to tell the previous caller that a friend of mine had seen, was looking up one morning ready to go fly, and he saw a saucer 1 20th the size of the moon just go across it.
And while we were talking here, I had a reference that I was going to read, but I can't find it, a NASA technical document that documents about 600 different types of weird phenomena that was observed on the moon between the year 1600 and now as far as blinking lights, flashing lights, weird shadows, all kinds of stuff.
Yeah, she was saying that somebody had, you know, they have these secret vaults where they hold high-level discussions that are soundproofed and monitored and swept all The time.
And as far as his work on Mars, I told him that Bob Lazar had seen in his briefing the Sidonia region, photos that weren't accessible to the public, and there was definite doors and windows and construction on those pyramids in the Sidonia region.
When he talks in some of his contact papers about the Pleiades being the oldest group of visitors on the earth, and they're actually from the same ancestors as we are, the question I have is, they also believe in reincarnation, and they don't really believe in religion as such, but more as creation.
And they believe in the good in man and whatnot.
The question I have is they don't like us dealing with the graves because they seem to think that they are a negative life for us.
John, I want you to give some advice to the young ufologists out there.
A lot of people are absolutely lit afire by all of this, and they're going to travel down the same road that you traveled down.
And you've now reached a point where you've said you're fatalistic about it, and the best thing we can all do is go out and live our lives and enjoy our lives.
What would you say to the young ufologists out there, John?
Well, of course, they're not going to pay any more attention to that than I did when people told me that, you know, when I first started getting into it.
A few years back, a bunch of my friends and I, we were out in the front yard and we saw a great green light beam going across the sky and it was solid and it had a beginning and it had an end to it like water coming out of a hose when you first turn it on and shut it off.
Like a big plasma beam going through the sky and it was a good like 30 to 40 feet in diameter and that lasted a good three, four miles going through the sky.
It was like a big arc.
And I was wondering if he had any knowledge of what that might be.
First-time caller line, you're on the air with John Lear.
Hello.
unidentified
Yeah, good morning.
I'm calling from the Kingdom of Valleys Center, which is in Southern California at the base of Mount Palomar.
Welcome.
Famous 200-inch Hale telescope.
You know, Dr. Hale, it's interesting.
He never saw his telescope become a reality, but he was led by an invisible dwarf who apparently inspired him, told him where to build it, and that sort of thing.
I have two questions.
First of all, what does your guest think of George Adamski, who is also a local fellow here?
He was apparently the father of the UFO culture.
And also, does he have any information on a hypersonic vehicle called Aurora, which is apparently a top-secret thing coming out of a base in northern Scotland?
We have a lot of sonic booms here on Wednesdays and Thursdays, and we've been hearing that this is coming from this Aurora vehicle, which does something strange over the San Diego area.
And just, you know, he went into the whole cover, but I mean, he detailed everything from, you know, different fighter pilots, their names, their vehicle identification number, everything, you know, just hundreds of documents on that.
On the wildcard line, you're on the air with John Lear.
Hi.
unidentified
Yeah, this is Lewis over in Chico.
John, about two years ago, I had an opportunity while I was back east to run into an intelligence officer.
I won't give his branch service because I certainly don't want to get him in trouble.
But he worked out of one of our top command units back on the East Coast.
And he told me that, now this is what he said, that the aliens that supposedly that our government's dealing with are in a non-interference type of pact.
And that there were other aliens who were interfering.
And he said there was actually three levels of government in this country.
And they're all vying for positions of power.
And they're kind of all in like a standoff to each other because, you know, different groups of these supposed aliens have upped the ante.
You know, it's just kind of like here on Earth, you know, Bosnia.
You know, somebody gets an AK-47, and the next guy gets a nuclear bomb.
Yeah, I agree with that, and I think your friend was right.
unidentified
He also said, though, that the ones that they kind of kept an overall picture of the thing.
He said that most of the abductions were not being carried out by aliens, but they were being carried out by the government, and it was for use for later, you know, they were programming people.
They would go out and find people who would be susceptible to this.
He said they had special editions of films that were very subliminal, and they would get like a control who would make friends with certain individuals.
And they would go over to the guy's house, you know, and show him a special copy of E.T., except the guy's not knowing he's watching a special copy of E.T. and they would program these people up to a point where they would either give them a hypnotic experience or they would actually,
and I thought this was kind of amusing, but he said they actually hired dwarfs and would dress them up and have a whole theater set up to be like a ship and give these people a physical experience so that even if they took them out and they got out to a psychiatrist or a hypnotist who was not even believing in this, when he would put them under, that he would get the reading back from them that they actually believed what they went under.
MJ-12 was the government, the secret review body that was put together by President Truman in 1947 to review and decide what to do about the alien threat, if any.
It was given teeth by President Eisenhower when he got in and regretted by President Eisenhower when he got out.
He said, beware of the military-industrial complex, which MJ-12 essentially run.
For the people who don't believe that MJ-12 exists, my source for the existence of MJ-12 was Jimmy Doolittle.
And since he's passed away now, I don't mind saying that that was my source.