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Sept. 2, 1994 - Art Bell
03:28:42
Coast to Coast AM with Art Bell - UFOs - John Lear
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🎵 Outro Music 🎵 From the high desert and the great American Southwest, I
bid you all good evening or good morning and welcome to another edition, a Friday night,
Saturday morning edition of Coast to Coast AM, live talk radio throughout the nighttime.
Now the largest, fastest growing all night program in America.
Period.
It's good to be with you.
I promised you John Lear this morning.
And so it shall be.
What a little tweak in there, didn't I?
All right, John Lear.
It's been a long time since John has been on the program.
John doesn't really do interviews to speak of.
A lot of you don't know who John Lear is.
So, John Lear is an airline captain.
He is that now.
He's flown 160 different types of aircraft in over 50 different countries in all types of flying.
Experimental test flying, production test flying, Airline passenger flying, cargo hauling, movie work, stunt flying, aircraft ferrying, air dropping missions, air racing, and government secret missions of all kinds.
Lear has held 18 world speed records in the Learjet, including speed around the world, and holds the most FAA Airman Certificates issued to a single individual, which include the Airline Transport Rating, Flight Instructor, Ground Instructor, Navigator, Flight Engineer, Flight Dispatcher, Airframe and Power Plant Mechanic, Control Tower Operator, and Parachute Rigger.
He has been a commercial pilot for 34 years.
Has been flying for 38 years.
He holds the Professional Air Traffic Controllers Award for Outstanding Airmanship presented in 1968.
He has flown missions worldwide for various government agencies.
He flew in Cambodia, Vietnam, and Laos between 1967 and 1973, and has flown extensively in Europe, the Middle East, Afghanistan, the Far East, and Africa.
As a non-SKED pilot, he has over 17,000 hours of flight time, of which over 13,000 hours are in jets.
Lear's father was William P. Lear, Sr., who not only helped ...developed the first car radio, the 8-track stereo, and the automatic pilot for fighter aircraft, but who also developed, of course, the Lear Jet, one of the first and most successful of all business jet aircraft.
Lear studied industrial design at the Art Center College in Los Angeles, and was a state senate candidate in Nevada in 1980.
He has written extensively about airplanes and other subjects, was Middle East correspondent for Combat Illustrated between 1975 and 77 while stationed in Beirut.
He is an amateur photographer and astronomer, has won several photography awards for pictures taken during his worldwide travels.
In the early 70s, John Lear owned and skippered the 12-meter America's Cup boat Soliloquy out of Marina Del Rey.
His interest in UFOs began after reading Bud Hopkins' book, Missing Time.
Then, a chance encounter with a U.S.
Air Force pilot who was at a base in England where an extraterrestrial craft landed in December of 1980.
In 1988, John met a government scientist who worked on a back-engineering program of recovered extraterrestrial flying saucers for the Department of Naval Intelligence at a secret base Within the Nevada Test Site known only as S4.
This scientist not only explained how these craft traveled many times faster than the speed of light, but in March of 1989, took John to a remote desert location to watch the Navy test fly one of those extraterrestrial craft.
John, who no longer gives lectures on the subject of UFOs, and has no plans, incidentally, to write a book, is currently a DC-8 captain with a major cargo carrier, has four daughters, and lives in Las Vegas with his wife, Marilee.
So, that's a pretty full plate for anybody's life, I would say, and a little fuller than mine has been, certainly, and I think most.
In just one moment, we'll get to john lear and i think you'll find him uh... more than just
a little fascinating now ladies and gentlemen
here comes john lear
John, well, wait a minute.
Let me put you on hold there and bring you up here.
John, it's been a long time since we've had you on the program.
Welcome back.
Well, thank you.
Yeah, it sure has been.
It's been, what, over a year?
At least that long, John.
And the network in that time has grown magnificently.
I think we've gone from about 28 stations to about 120.
Wow.
Yeah.
Yeah, we've come a long way, baby.
Well, anyway, John, you've done a lot in your life, haven't you?
Yeah, a little bit here and there.
It's been awfully busy.
I mean, this is quite a resume you've got, and that's a lot to do in a life.
And then all of a sudden, at some point, you decided to mix into all of this, which is enough for about two people normally, and you got involved in UFOs.
Yes.
Involuntarily, I might add.
Involuntarily.
Well, look, we'll get to that.
You've done something kind of interesting.
You've given me this timeline, and I do appreciate it.
I would like to go back over the history a little bit with you, John, and pick your brain about what you know about the incidents that you have listed for me.
Did modern UFOlogy really begin about 1947?
Yeah, it really did with the Ken Arnold sightings, but now there's been a lot that happened before that.
There was a recovery, I think, in 1941, I think in Arizona, and there was a lot of activity during World War II.
But really, modern ufology started in 1947 with the recovery, well, first with the Ken Arnold sighting up in Seattle, I think it was, and then the recovery of the craft in Roswell, New Mexico.
Well, I'm not familiar with the Arnold sighting.
Well, the Ken Arnold sighting was when he saw those nine disks flying through the air.
He was out on a search and rescue mission.
and uh... he saw these dudes and when he landed uh... the reporters want to know
what he so i think that well they look kinda like saucers about
with the that uh... with the first uh... coining of the term uh...
flying saucers and this happened like in late june of nineteen forty seven
and coincidentally just
you know like a week later with this recovery of the uh...
uh... of the craft in rossmoor well i say modern ufology uh... really
there have been sightings i suppose for as long as man has been around to record
them out of there Yeah, at least.
There's just hundreds of references in the Bible, and before that, Chinese and Indian records record saucers up to 4,000 or 5,000 years ago.
Okay, now to Roswell very quickly.
I interviewed the author of the book, The Truth About the UFO Crash, at Roswell the other day.
And he did a pretty good job of documenting what I guess is... Would you say it is the best documentation of something that has happened?
Yeah, it probably is, rather than, of course... Well, no, that's right.
It is.
It is.
And I know you've looked at Roswell.
I guess it's probably one of the first things that you studied when you jumped into all this.
What kind of conclusions did you draw about it, John?
Well, at that time, 1985, when I first got into this, I think there was then over 200 witnesses that were still alive that had either touched or loaded or seen the craft and the bodies.
A good portion of those people are still alive now, but it was just overwhelming evidence that this occurred.
What actually, supposedly, happened?
What is the best guess?
Was there a collision?
Did it blow up?
Does anybody speculate about what happened to this craft?
There's theories, and I don't think it's so important as to what happened, the fact that it did happen.
Now, some people say there was two craft, and one landed and one crashed on the Magdalena Flats, about 100 miles east of Roswell, and then there was a craft, or portions of a craft, that landed on the Brazil Ranch.
uh... their your corona but uh... whatever did happen they certainly collected a
large amount of debris
and there was a lot of people involved in the separate but what was so
interesting is the preparedness of the military to deal with this there
was no confusion uh... they do exactly what to do the uh... they do exactly
uh... what they had a bit about the kept secret uh... and they were very well prepared
so that would indicate to you i guess that they had some knowledge of what was
going on or some interaction prior
They definitely had advanced knowledge that there was a probability, a possibility, that this could happen, and they were very well prepared for it.
All right, also in that same timeline, 1947, the establishment, the original establishment of MJ-12, and the MJ-12 documents, which I've seen, John, do you view those as legitimate The information is legitimate, not necessarily the documents.
President Truman certainly formed MJ-12 on September 24, 1947.
There's enough evidence in government documents that he did have a meeting with certain people and did form this body which, of course, has been in charge ever since.
What was the job of MJ-12?
It had a charter, right?
What was it supposed to do?
The charter of MJ-12 was basically to research the craft, determine what it was made of, whether there was a threat to this country, and to determine what should be done to tell, if at all, the public about what was going on.
So they kind of were the overseers of all this?
Yeah, they were and they are the overseers.
The original 12 that were appointed by Truman The last one that died, I think it was 1983, and that was former Secretary of the Army Gordon Gray.
He was the last member.
As to who is involved or a member of MJ-12 today, we can only speculate.
I really don't know, but... Well, since that time, there must have been many members.
In other words, people die, people retire, people get sick, all kinds of things.
So if it's... Are you saying it's still in place today?
Yes, MJ-12 certainly is in place.
They would have had to replace the original 12.
I don't think it would be more than 30 were probably ever involved.
People talk, John, about this current administration, the Clinton administration, and how open they've been with the nuclear tests that were done, the awful things that were done.
And they have hopes that they will also be open about UFOs and maybe tell us what's going on.
What do you think?
Never.
When I first got into what they call ufology, and I think it's a dumb name, but when I first got interested in this and realized the overwhelming impact of what was going on and the cover-up that had been in place for so many years, I got up on my soapbox and did lectures and said, hey, you've got a list of me.
There's something going on here that we should all be aware of.
That was like 1985.
Now, in September of 1994, I believe the government was correct to cover it up.
As short as three or four years ago, I still thought they were planning to gradually release the information.
So that the public would not panic, but accept this.
Now I don't think they ever had any intention of doing that, and I don't think they have today.
As odd as it may sound, I kind of go along with it.
I believe that really the public does not have a need to know.
They certainly don't have a right to know.
There are so many aspects to this thing that would really disrupt Public life, as we know it, that I don't think they had any intention of doing it.
The only reason that they would maybe be forced to do it is if there was a crash or a landing that absolutely could possibly not be denied.
And they have facilities and teams in place to prevent things like that ever happening.
There have been saucers that have crashed very, very near to cities, and it's been completely covered up.
They have teams that go out And it's their business to be sure that the public never finds out.
And if this includes relocating personnel or even terminating personnel that have seen this unauthorized, either accidental or on purpose, they go to that extent.
Well, I do know this.
There have been crashes here near us, John.
I'm to the west of you, and you know what I'm near.
Yeah.
And there have been crashes out here, and it's true.
The public would never know.
They get these areas quickly cordoned off, and you don't get anywhere near it.
And, you know, it's wreckage, and it could be anything, and so who knows?
If a saucer did come down, they could get control of it very quickly, just like that, couldn't they?
Exactly.
I heard of one that landed, didn't crash, but landed just maybe a few miles outside of downtown Albuquerque.
And these teams are located all over the United States.
They're in underground facilities.
They have helicopters.
They have people who are technicians and heavy equipment operators who have passes and authority to go to any civilian or military base and drive right off with this heavy equipment.
And their job is to go and keep us from being seen.
and one of the first things they do is they have these portable walls that are put in
place and then they secure the area.
If it's like near a freeway, what they can do is have a heavy truck purposely have a
wreck right there to block the freeway several miles from the crash or the landing.
They can also start fires.
They do really interesting things to keep the people from seeing them.
Anyway, they erected these portable walls around this thing and everybody stood around
trying to figure out what to do.
I think it was there for about five hours, and then all of a sudden it just left.
Huh.
And nobody got out.
There was no communication.
And it just left.
All right.
You know, we're very efficient in this country at doing this kind of thing, and I don't doubt that for a second.
I've seen it myself.
But, John, they come down all over the world.
Or at least you would think they come down all over the world.
So what about other countries less prepared to make it all a big secret?
We go in and with money, we say, you know, we need to have this craft and here's so many millions of dollars.
Be sure that nobody ever finds out about it.
We had a recovery in Bolivia, one in Argentina, one in South Africa just a very few years ago.
All over the world, except for Russia.
We didn't have any control over those, and I don't know how that happened.
I mean, I don't know what happened in Russia, if there were any crashes there, if there were any recoveries there.
In 1948, the Aztec recovery, a possible EBE-1, what does all that mean, the Mantel incident?
Aztec recovery was a saucer crash in Aztec, New Mexico.
And they recovered a few bodies from that one.
It's not sure where they got their first live alien, but they were called, they were named EBEs, Extraterrestrial Biological Entities, by Dr. Detlef Bronk, who was one of the first members of MJ-12.
At some point in that 47, 48, 49, they recovered their first live alien.
The Mantell incident is separate from that.
That was the P-51 crash.
I'm trying to think.
It was in Kentucky and he got up to about 30,000 feet.
He was on clear communication and he said, I have it in sight.
It's enormous, a thing of tremendous size.
And then the next thing they knew, this P-51 crashed in the field.
It was completely disintegrated.
There are stories that Mantell's body was not in the crash.
But I don't know for sure, but that was the Mantell incident, and that occurred in the same year as the Aztec recovery.
How many bodies totally do you think they've recovered?
From between 50 to 100, representing at least five different civilizations.
They're all in cryogenic storage.
One of the interesting things here is that in 1972, the only civilian that I know that ever got to see the bodies It was Jackie Gleason and he was a very big supporter of
Nixon's and they were out playing golf down there in Miami in 1972.
Jackie Gleason, as not many people know, had a tremendous interest in flying saucers and
he had one of the biggest civilian collections of books and memorabilia and pictures and
stuff like that.
No, I didn't know that.
In upstate New York, his house was built in the shape of a saucer and he called it the
mother ship.
Anyway, in a conversation with Nixon, he said, you know, was there any chance of getting
to see the bodies?
And Nixon said, yeah, sure.
They finished their golf game, they went over and got in the presidential helicopter and
they went to Homestead Air Force Base, which was right near where they were playing golf
and he was shown the bodies.
And the reason we know this story is because... Alright, John, John, John, hold it right there.
We're at the bottom of the hour and we'll be right back.
My guest is John Lear, commercial airline pilot, ufologist, in semi-retirement, since he happens to be here with us this morning.
We'll be right back.
Hi Gemini 17 are you listening to 98?
7, go ahead.
We have a bogey at 10 o'clock high.
This is Houston.
Say again, 7?
We have a bogey at 10 o'clock high.
Roger.
Shelby Patrol here again.
The reference in that conversation was a bogey.
It was Bourbon who reported sighting the bogey.
This is Jeopardy!
Control Houston at 4 hours 24 minutes into the flight.
And this is Coast to Coast AM Control at about 35 minutes into the flight.
And the flight this morning is with John Lear, son of Bill Lear, jet pilot, aviator for just about all his adult life, and very much a believer in UFOs, or John would call them, I believe, IFOs, identified.
Flying objects, because he says he knows exactly what they are.
So that's what we're going to be doing this morning.
Hope you'll join us.
I do want to issue one brief and severe warning.
Some of the material that we will be getting to this morning will be deeply disturbing to some people out there.
And so if you're the kind of person disturbed by this sort of material, my best advice at this point is to tune out.
Rarely do I Offer that up, but I do know that a lot of people are disturbed by this.
We've not yet hit on any of that material, but we're going to, so, uh, if it bothers you, um, go play cards or something.
right back in just a moment with john lear back now to john lear
John.
Yeah.
Uh, John, you were talking about Jackie Gleason and said that Richard Nixon It took him from a golf course to go see the aliens?
Right.
At Homestead Air Force Base.
And the reason we know this is his second wife wrote a book describing the incident, how he came home that night and he was all pale and she said, my God, what's the matter?
And he says, well, get me a drink and I'll tell you.
So she got him a drink and he sat down.
He said the, you know, the most interesting thing happened to me today and went on to relate the incident about how he had seen the bodies.
And this book was never published, but in the manuscript, this is how it was.
Wow.
And so he actually got to see the bodies at Homestead?
Homestead Air Force Base, right.
That was one of the places that they had the cryogenic storage and display for people who were authorized to see the displays, like certain world leaders, certain political people.
Are they still there now?
I don't know.
I don't know.
Well, surely we do still have bodies, don't we?
Certainly.
We still have them all.
And no idea where they might be?
No.
I've heard some rumors lately, John, that there might be some bodies here in Nevada somewhere.
Not, you know, Area 51-ish, but somewhere else here in Nevada.
Have you heard that?
Could very well be.
There's a lot of things here in Nevada.
uh... secret places not only uh...
but that it does take a lot of other places right close to your account airport space to stop
a place to call the area too which is a nuclear bomb storage area but part of that area
is called uh...
because the q area or or uh... area q now there's a lot of uh...
people that parts stored there area q that's when i've never heard of
all right uh...
i guess there are so many incidents we could talk about There was one recovery, I guess, in 1950 in Mexico, across from Del Rio.
Is that right?
Right.
It crashed about 30 miles across the border, and we went over and actually dragged it 30 miles to Del Rio.
And up until maybe 10 or 15 years ago, people that had researched that incident said you could still see the drag marks of where they had pulled it across.
Wow.
uh... then and i've heard about this before john in washington dc it is true then that for a couple of weekends in a row back in nineteen fifty two they actually had flying saucers over washington dc that there were photographed by the press yeah they were photographed at uh... the problem both on uh... at the radar airport radar is that if you could go down the library of pullout uh... those weekend editions i think of the washington post and uh...
There's stories all over it.
And then I think the third weekend, the Air Force released a story, and I think it was the largest press conference of the decade, and they said that it had been a temperature inversion which caused this.
Naturally, the press bought it.
Well, it says here the press got photographs.
How do you photograph a temperature inversion?
Well, that's a good question.
So, I've never seen the photographs.
What do they look like?
Well, the photographs were, of course, confiscated.
They had a very good machine in place for dealing with the press and for dealing with anybody who had photographs.
They still do.
Now, once in a while you'll see a photograph of a bright light in the sky, but you won't see any real good photographs because somehow they get all of those.
Then there was a recovery near Johannesburg, South Africa.
Back in 53, and I sort of vaguely remember something about that, John.
What happened?
Well, there was one then, I don't know too much about that, but there was one also several years ago that... Yeah, maybe that's the one I remember.
...that supposedly crashed, and we sent one of our, they have the recovery teams with the C5As, and they go over there and they load it up and bring it back to wherever.
Some say Wright-Patterson, some say out here at Grim Lake.
All right, and then the first official meeting in 1954, supposedly, between Eisenhower and the aliens at Muroc Dry Lake, is that correct?
Yeah, and as ridiculous as this may sound, there's very good evidence that that did occur.
And Muroc was the original name of Edwards Air Force Base.
It was later named after Glenn Edwards, who I think crashed in a flying wing there.
But it was called Muroc, and Eisenhower was vacationing at the time in Palm Springs, and he was called to Edwards by the military, and the press was given the story that he had to attend an emergency session with a dentist as the cover.
But in fact, this is when the meeting occurred, and Eisenhower essentially told these people that the world was not ready.
To see them or be aware of them, and that's where it stood until the Holloman encounter of 1964.
But later, the dentist was interviewed and said, no, he didn't have an appointment with me.
So the cover story started to unravel.
By 1956, with more recoveries having been done, the first human mutilation Yeah, well, the first one that they knew about, and that was in the Grudge 13 report that Bill English read, and it was Jonathan P. Lovett, who was a tech sergeant out on the Holloman Range, and he and the captain were out there recovering some missile debris about 3 o'clock in the morning, and as the story goes, Lovett went over this hill,
To where there was kind of a bright, shining light, and the captain called after him and didn't hear any response.
And he went up to the hill and saw this disc with kind of a snake-like arm coming out of it, and he grabbed Lovett, who was kicking and screaming, and dragged him in this saucer.
The captain, who was petrified, got back in his Jeep and went back to the base.
And he was, in fact, charged with murder because there was no body.
But about 10 days later, they recovered the body.
It was about 10 miles downrange.
And I won't go into the details, but it was horribly mutilated.
Just use your imagination of how bad it could be.
And it was worse than that.
In 1957, John, you say there was the prohibition of the word space in the media.
For about ten months, the media was not allowed to use the word space in any of their stories.
They were just where they didn't want the public to be thinking or be aware about anything
in space.
This was before Sputnik had gone up.
You have to understand, at that time, the government was just petrified about this whole
thing with human mutilations and saucer creation all over the place.
They didn't want the public thinking about the possibility of anything other than terrestrial
John, while we're on the subject of mutilations, Linda Howe, who does this show with me on Sunday called Dreamland, concentrates a lot on animal mutilations, and I just got an article from somebody, it came in the Associated Press article, and with a local kind of There are cattle mutilations going on like crazy right now in northern New Mexico, and they really are odd, John.
High heat used, genitals and tongues and so forth and so on, removed, all that sort of thing going on, and it's going on massively now in northern New Mexico.
Are the cattle mutilations related in any way To the human mutilations?
I don't know, but they do the same thing.
They core out the rectum, they take the genitals, they carve the eyes out.
They follow the same pattern.
We had a very interesting incident happen here in Nevada.
If you'll remember, in 1990, there was a big story about 128 sheep that were found dead in central Nevada.
Yes, I recall.
Well, the interesting thing is that area was sealed off from all reporters and researchers, and no pictures were ever released, and no independent inspection was done.
And after the initial interest, there was only one story done by a reporter in Reno.
This reporter never went near the horses or the site, but relied mainly on unsubstantiated reports from the authorities.
And he wrote that the horses were killed by rifle bullets fired from persons who were charged, but then later released for insufficient evidence right at this reporter received a
pulitzer prize for his report
uh...
if you have a hazard guess with regard all these cattle mutilations what do you think is being done
uh... i i don't know what it has to do with genetic experimentation those
particular uh... parts of the body uh...
i think they use it uh... hormone secretions that kind of thing for
whatever their experiment well there are people who suggest that it's our own
government You know, that our government is somehow doing it.
But it wouldn't make sense to me that our government wouldn't feel a need, or would even have a need, to raid anybody's cattle farm.
Well, certainly if it was our own government, they would do it a little bit more discreetly.
There's no question in my mind that we do some of that, but the major portion of it is done by someone else.
Well, you'd think the government could get cattle if they need cattle.
Certainly, they could have a farm and they wouldn't leave the bodies lying around just to invite speculation.
All right.
The explosion over Nevada that you talk about, then a recovery of a craft in New Mexico in 1962.
Yeah, I was just trying to find a copy of that, of the Las Vegas Sun.
It had a front page story of this explosion that occurred.
Well, it was seen all over Nevada, but apparently part of it crashed in Mesquite.
and apparently that was one of the first test flights that our government uh... baby in
here they recovered extraterrestrial craft and because of the disastrous outcome of it
uh... there was no more testing and uh... until nineteen seventy two but
apparently that was us trying to fly one of the extraterrestrial craft
okay is that one of them that had crashed or was one turned over to us
uh... in some way or All I can tell you is it was acquired.
Now, whether it crashed and it was good enough working order to fly, or whether it was turned over to us, is one of the ones that Linda Howe talks about at Kill Air Force Base in Utah.
Everybody wakes up one morning, and there's one just sitting on the ramp.
The doors are open.
It's just sitting there.
And that was one of the cases where we had to quickly cover it up and take it somewhere, but it was just sitting there on the ramp.
Now, who gave it to us?
I don't know, but it was just there.
Boy, it's so hard to fill in the blanks sometimes.
The Holloman incident in 1964, an agreement in the late sixties, the building of Dulce Recovery near Fort Raleigh, Kansas.
That was a busy year.
Yeah, that was... The Holloman incident was documented by Sandler Productions, the film that was released in 1973.
And that was actually, supposedly, the first attempt by the government to release information to the public.
They approached Sandler Films, who is a CIA front in Los Angeles, to write a documentary outlining the history of UFOs and to end it with the actual landing at Holloman.
That was going to be the final part of the film.
Well, they got everything done.
Emanator himself, Robert Emanator, who's a close friend, actually had 800 feet of this film in his house.
He did not view the film, but he was given it to him by Paul Chardell, who was head of the audiovisual department at Norton Air Force Base, and Chardell watched the film in its entirety, and he says there's no question that it was a real film, and that it showed these Three saucers coming down, one landing, the other two going away, and then three people coming out.
They were humanoid, but slightly different than us.
They had a weapon.
And this film was supposed to be shown at the last part of the actual documentary.
It was called UFO's Past, Present, and Future.
At the last minute, the Pentagon withdrew the film and said, we want you to not use this film, but depict the end in terms of it may have happened.
And so if you ever see a copy of this, you'll see Rod Serling, who does the narration, say, let's consider an incident that could happen in the future or already may have happened in the past.
And in fact, it had happened.
And that's how the film got released.
But that was the incident, the Holloman incident that they talk about.
All right.
What is what is Dulcey, the building of Dulcey?
Dulcey was an underground base that's still active.
It's on the It's on the Colorado-New Mexico border near the town of Dulce.
It's completely underground.
It's about 1,000 to 1,500 feet underground, and it's where supposedly the CIA and the aliens do joint genetic experiments.
I've been out to Dulce.
I've talked with Gabe Valdez, who is head of the New Mexico Highway Patrol, and his area was Dulce.
I spent two evenings with him driving around the entire area, heard all his stories about all the craft he'd seen, and the evidence that Dulcey was in fact there.
And there's no question in my mind that it was there, and that it still is there.
And there's a story that'll come up later, what's called the Dulcey Incident, which happened in 1979, when we get up to that part of the timeline.
Alright, and a recovery at Fort Raleigh, Kansas.
Yeah, there was either a recovery or a landing, and several of the soldiers who were there watched it come down.
Then one near Kecksburg, Pennsylvania.
That's a very famous event.
It's covered in a lot of these things like hard copy and entertainment tonight.
They do the story on this every once in a while, but there was a recovery there of an acorn-shaped object, and there's quite a lot of evidence for that.
Boy, we must have a lot of artifacts stored somewhere, not just bodies, but discs and parts of discs and all the rest of it.
we have we do have uh... which is really a story here for one of uh...
the researchers uh... stringfield uh... talked about four
uh...
military personnel who were uh... engineers and they were flown
uh... one night uh... four hours i think it is back uh... your right path they didn't know where they were
being called the head of right for security o
uh... they say that after four hours they landed at the were blindfolded
uh... they were taken out they said when we stepped out of the flight you being
in the desert they were not with her blindfolded up
they went into the hanger uh... and the lights were turned off they were uh... to
blindfold taken off for the trip to the whole thing was full
all kinds of artifacts and there was a a quote uh... curator there
that they were allowed to expect and they were there for four days to expect
and uh... speculate on what these items might be uh... and then after the four days they said they could
come back anytime they wanted to see any fresh ideas
but they were not discussed it with anybody how intriguing
you.
Um, then there's 1967.
This one's close to home.
A big disc, a large disc, hovers over Las Vegas School, it says, and children are sent home.
Really?
Yeah, a friend of mine, uh, uh, as a matter of fact, uh, Tabitha, was, uh, I think one of the students there, and, uh, they, this disc hovered over the school, and the children were sent home, and they remembered this incident quite clearly.
Huh.
I'm not sure whether it was her or somebody else, but, uh, that that could happen in nineteen sixty seven along
with that there was uh...
a landing at melons airport space were a uh...
saucer landed uh... and people got out in a colonel who was there to his
weapon at the colonel was uh... paralyzed in place of the rent and
the weapon rendered uh... inoperative
and a few minutes later they took off john uh... were about out of our here of out of this hour
but i i want to ask you you have flown in flown in flown in flown you've been in
our skies looked more into the skies and probably most of us
you.
In all those zillions of hours, how many air hours do you have now, John, do you know?
17,000.
17,000 hours.
In 17,000 hours, one would think if they're up there, you would have been one of the guys who would have seen one of them.
Let me tell you about flying.
You're not sitting there looking out the window.
You're looking at your instruments, particularly when you're flying jet aircraft.
Now, at night, when it's more likely you're going to see something, you can't see outside because you've got the glow of the instruments inside, and you have to put your face up to get rid of all the cockpit reflections to do it, and it's just something that doesn't happen.
So then, unless it was close and bright, you probably wouldn't see it?
No, you really wouldn't, and the only time that I ever saw anything It's still interesting these days.
When I think about this incident, it never occurred to me.
I was in a Learjet.
It was in the afternoon.
I was descending from over Palm Springs.
I was on a flight from Wichita to Los Angeles.
I was descending through about 18,000 feet.
How high would I have been?
John, John, John, John, John.
I've never heard this story, so hold this story.
We're now at the top of the hour.
When we come back, we'll tell the story.
Okay.
Now that is one I haven't heard.
Apparently John has seen something as he thinks back over it.
We'll get to that right after the news at the top of the hour.
Cheerio everybody.
Friday night turning into Saturday morning.
this is CBC.
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This is Coast to Coast AM on the CBC Radio Network.
It certainly is.
Beginning of a holiday weekend, a Friday night, now Saturday morning.
My guest is John Lear, airline captain.
And very much a believer in IFOs, identified flying objects.
and we will get back to john in a moment once again my guest john lear uh... who has flown in jet
aircraft for many many thousands of hours
and uh... pressed a little bit now recalls one incident where he saw
something or another Anyway, John, when was it?
What did you see?
Well, it was like 1966 or so, and I was descending in a Learjet from, I was on a flight from Wichita to Los Angeles, and descending through like 30,000 feet, and from my, I was headed westbound, and from my left to my right, I saw what I thought at the time was a NASA lifting body, that X-24 Or one of those type things.
Remember the one that the six million dollar man crashed in?
I do, yes.
And that's what it looked like.
And it went by.
And I mentioned it to the co-pilot.
When I landed, I distinctly remember calling Hank Beard, who was chief test pilot at Learjet.
And I said, man, you'll never guess what I saw today.
And he said, what?
And I said, a lifting body passed me.
And only after, you know, 25 or 30 years do I look back and say how ridiculous that was, because under no stretch of the imagination would a lifting body be in the main approach corridor for the Los Angeles International Airport.
Heavens no.
So, I don't know what I saw, but in all my thousands of hours, I guess that's the only strange thing I ever saw.
That's it, huh?
All right.
There's so much history to go through here, John.
I guess let's jump up to a violent encounter, supposedly, between UFO humanoids and the U.S.
military at Lumberton, Ohio.
Yeah, there was two.
There was one that happened in Cambodia, and one that happened in Feeney, Ohio.
The one at Feeney, Ohio was an encounter between the occupants of an alien craft and a U.S.
military detachment, and there was 11 American casualties and an unknown number of aliens.
One of the researchers met a guy who worked at the off-limits area at Wright-Patt, who claims to have seen bodies on litters arriving at the base during that time frame.
You know, as I go through the history, it is interesting in one respect.
All of these occurrences, all of these witnesses, all of these bodies, how can it... Well, of course, it isn't really kept secret, because here we are talking about it, but still, The official cloak of secrecy remains.
How can that be?
It's great.
They can keep it secret if they want to.
Well, you know, that's really true.
And if anything, the revelations about the nuclear testing, I think, prove that.
I can't imagine how our government could have kept secret the fact that they were feeding radiation to children.
That kind of thing.
Yeah.
All right.
You mentioned Cambodia.
A firefight between U.S.
military and small, gray humanoids?
Yeah, that was in April of 1972.
And what happened is members of the U.S.
Army Special Operations Group were involved in a firefight with the occupants of an identified alien craft.
There were several alien casualties and a single human death, though several were burned by an unknown weapon.
And what happened was this platoon happened on a group of aliens who were sorting human body parts into large bins and sealing them.
A firefight ensued and several of the aliens were killed through headshots because the suits that they were wearing were essentially bulletproof.
And as the soldiers pulled back, several of the aliens quickly packed as much as they could, got in this craft, and it took off.
The unit was interrogated originally by military personnel and then by civilians who were identified as representatives of magic.
And they are part of the majestic group that go out and help cover these things up.
Alright, looks like we're going to jump into the tough stuff early.
Why, John, would they be packing up body parts?
Well, you got me.
You know, for every Every answer I've ever gotten in all this research, I get ten more questions posed.
So if you're looking for answers... Well, I think this, though, goes to a pretty awful area.
You have not ruled out the possibility, have you, that we are, for them, food?
No, but it's kind of far out.
Make that statement once in an interview, and I've regretted it ever since because it sounds so outrageous.
I'm not sure that... Listen, let me stop you, John.
It really did sound outrageous then, but you know something?
I've been interviewing a lot of ufologists, scientists, scholars, people who have said things that when they say them, John, They suddenly harken back to some of the early interviews that I did with you, and I'll say to myself, sometimes out loud, I'll be damned.
You know, I remember John said that, and a lot of people guffawed, and here we are.
I mean, a lot of that stuff that you told me, John, has been coming back recently.
Yeah.
And a lot of investigators, John, are beginning to go down some of the same roads you did.
Back then, you were one of the only ones saying, These guys are not necessarily warm, fuzzy, nice people who wish us well.
Right.
And you were almost alone then.
But now, let me tell you, John, more people than not are beginning to join you in that view.
Yeah.
At any rate, the Dulcey incident.
Okay, now the Dulcey incident I first heard about in 1986 or 1987 when I was invited to be Part of a group of researchers who met at Crestone, Colorado, and we just traded information.
And I was handed a letter by one of the guys who had gotten this letter from a person who lived in Las Vegas and said, why don't you research this?
And it talked about this underground base and it was founded so far out.
but i met with this person and uh... and she had known
uh... one of the uh... officers who had worked in five days this space and originally told about
the uh... the massacre uh... at dole c i'd further heard uh... story by a guy named paul benowitz who lived uh... in
albuquerque was involved in this
and he told me about it also in the story went that in nineteen seventy nine we had forty four scientists
who were being instructed by the aliens in some subject i don't know what it was but
uh...
they were being instructed uh... at dole c
for some reason uh... it was agreed that that uh... that are security force
or delta force would not carry conventional weapons at any time in this
uh... classroom around this area And for some reason, one of the officers walked in with a conventional sidearm, and the alien killed him outright.
Now, how that was done, I don't know.
But on the video, on a monitor, His compatriots, or the Delta Force, saw that he was killed and they went down en masse to exact revenge.
And it ended up that all 44 scientists and about 66 of the Delta Force were killed.
It was just a complete massacre.
So I just put this in the file.
It was an interesting story.
And it didn't come up again until Bob Lazar, who worked at S4, and we'll get into that later, read a report.
That documented this massacre.
Now, the only thing different about the report that he read was that in the report he read, the massacre occurred somewhere around Area 51 or Groom Lake.
Is there any indication of how they were killed, John?
No, just head wounds.
In the report, it was said that they died of head wounds.
Head wounds.
Again, that's a lot of relatives who are going to be requiring explanations and that sort of thing.
How is it all explained?
Well, now remember, this is just speculation on how they handle it.
We've realized now that most of the people that get in this program do not have relatives for one reason or another.
Either they're orphans or their family has passed away or whatever.
And it's essential that this kind of thing happen.
So the people who do these things are screened specially for this kind of work?
Very specially.
But they also have other methods.
take the time to explain away the death of a relative.
So the people who do these things are screened specially for this kind of work, which includes
not only specially, but they also have other methods.
They can go to the family and say, look, we're going to give you an annual or monthly stipend,
but this is national security and it's for God and country.
So sign this and it'll be done.
Yeah.
Yeah, I understand.
Then I think it was an incident that had a lot of influence on you, didn't it?
Bentwaters in 1980.
Yeah, Bentwaters occurred during three days at the end of December.
We have a United States Air Force base about 70 miles northeast of London called Bentwaters.
At that time, I think it still is, an A-10 base, the Warthog tank killer.
And very strange things happened during those three days, culminating with the, it wasn't a landing, it was an appearance of a very weird aircraft, witnessed by General Gordon Williams, who was the base commander, Major Ted Conrad, Colonel Chuck Halt, Larry Warren, and a few others.
But at any rate, the incident did occur, but it was just a story as far as I was concerned.
Many pilots had heard it.
In 1985, I ran into a friend here in Las Vegas, an Air Force friend that I knew in Laos.
He was transferring from the regular Air Force to the Guard, and he came over to the house.
We started talking about stuff, and I asked where he had been based, and he mentioned Oh, that's supposedly where that saucer landed in 1980.
He said, no John, not supposedly.
It did.
He said, I didn't see it because I was confined to quarters, but I know those guys who did.
And he said, I'll give you their names.
And I said, wait a minute.
You're telling me this stuff is real, that there are flying saucers?
Because at this time, I had no real interest in this stuff.
My interest was in spy planes, SR-71s, U-2s.
I understand.
What about your dad, John?
I know your dad had great abiding interest in all of this.
Didn't any of that rub off on you, or was it self-ignited?
No, because there was no proof.
He was certain that they existed, and now that I look back, it's because of who his friends were.
He was friends with General Vandenberg, who was first head of the CIA and an original member of MJ-12.
He was very, very close friends with Jimmy Doolittle, who was up to his eyeballs in in this alien stuff, but he never let on to me and it was
just not a part of my interest.
Sure, everybody is interested in flying saucers, but unless you see one or have hard evidence,
it's just not a part of your life.
But in 1985 it became a part when Grape said, yeah, it's true, it's going on.
And that's what involuntarily, I might add, launched me into this research.
Okay, so that was then really the beginning of your interest?
Right.
Right.
All right.
In 1983, you have written second attempt at public disclosure, Linda Howe, MJ-12, and something about HBO.
What does all that mean?
This was when Linda Howe was contacted by MJ-12 in order to do a documentary, and they said that they would make available to her many, many thousands of feet Of saucers and whatnot.
And they wanted her to write a documentary that would be presented on HBO.
And she contacted HBO, and HBO said, we'll do it, but before we air it, we want a filmed interview with the President, his Chief of Staff, and his National Security Council saying that this is true.
And MJ-12 essentially led her on a Uh, round robin, so to speak, of different bases and different facilities and all kinds of things for about eight months.
Uh, at the end of which, uh, it was, it was just terminated.
She never heard anything more.
Well, that must have been very frustrating.
I'm going to have to ask her about that.
There was no more contact and only a few years later did she run into somebody who was involved in that and they said, I'm sorry it turned out the way it did, Linda.
But we had no option.
There was no further explanation.
But the stories she told me of where they took her and the things she saw are just absolutely fascinating.
And of course, Linda Howe is very articulate, very knowledgeable, and keeps voluminous notes.
It wasn't just some story she was telling.
By the way, John, again on the subject of Linda Howe, I talked to her earlier today.
And she said she's going to be on the way to New Mexico.
She's had enough.
There's too much going on down there, so she's going to be on her way to New Mexico and will be reporting to us from New Mexico.
Well, she was the leading authority on mutilation.
She did that documentary for the ABC affiliate in Denver in 19, I think it was, what was it, 1980?
Right, I believe so.
And then her and I, after the Crestone meeting, drove down to Roswell, and oddly enough, here we are driving out in the middle of the desert, just about 15 miles north of where the first UFO crashed, and we're on this little teeny road, it's a dirt road, about a million miles from nowhere, and I'm driving along in this truck, and we saw a dead cow, and I thought, well, here I am with the world's leading authority on cattle mutilations, We see a dead cow.
So we get out there and there was none of the classic cookie cutter incisions.
But we started looking around and we saw three others.
And then we saw two others and then I stood up on the bed of the truck and I think we counted 34 cows.
Wow.
And so we went to the nearest ranch and asked the guy if he knew about the cows and he said yeah.
He said they died of some disease.
Well, Linda Howe checked in with a veterinarian on this whatever-the-disease-was-and-I-don't-remember-what-it-is-now, but the veterinarian said, no way.
He said, if that had been that disease, that place would have been cordoned off within a hundred miles.
Uh-huh.
Just a very odd, one of those unexplained... It is, and I've heard Linda Howe tell exactly the same story, John.
So I guess that's the way it happened.
That was her idea.
That's weird.
That was, like, in 1986.
All right.
All right.
She's still trying to get it out to the public.
today and that's uh... what uh... well over a decade now and then the eisenhower brady for uh... leaked to hollywood producer and friend of bill moore yeah that was jimmy chandler and uh... one day he received in the mail uh... this film which was undeveloped which he had developed and uh... it was uh... it was the eisenhower briefing as if we've come to know it And it was supposedly the briefing that Eisenhower got when he became president on the alien situation.
It told the members about the Roswell crash.
It told the original members of MJ-12 and what they planned to do with it.
It's a very interesting document.
Now, people say, and I say the information was definitely true, not necessarily that the document itself was a legitimate document.
All right.
Then you say 1985, My Interest Begins.
Actually, it began a little earlier than that.
What made you write that, John?
Why 1985?
That's when Greg Wilson came through Las Vegas.
And told you the story about that water story?
Yeah, okay, I see.
Then 1986, and I remember this one very well, JAL 747 Captain is followed by UFO three times as big as an aircraft carrier, and I remember that.
It was an enormous, enormous craft, and it followed him for an hour.
He was on his way from Keflavik, Iceland, to Anchorage, fuel stop in Anchorage, and then on to Japan.
And about an hour out of Anchorage, at 33,000 feet, this night, this thing appears in front of the aircraft.
And it was not a passenger flight, it was cargo, and so there was only three guys in the cockpit, but they all thought Radar had it.
They returned to be sure it wasn't some gigantic reflection of some sort.
They went down to 29,000 feet to see if it would follow them, and it did.
And then after about an hour, it just left, and they landed, gave their FAA report.
And other than a few comical news stories ignored by the press, specifically by Aviation Week and Space Technology, who is our premier aviation magazine, didn't give it one word, not even a sentence.
Well, for all your flying, John, and the one incident you have had that may have been something like that, you must talk to all kinds of other captains, lots of friends in the industry.
Do they talk about this, John?
Not unless policy and cockpit etiquette bring this up, unless I've been with a crew for a long time and unless it seems appropriate.
But you find out that maybe a third of the pilots have seen something.
All right, we're at the bottom of the hour.
This is where we pause.
We've been doing sort of a historical look at UFOs, how John became involved, and we're just about up to modern.
This is CBC.
From the appearing Coast to Coast AM with Art Bell, much more than just a talk show.
To participate in the program, call toll-free 1-800-618-8255.
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It is.
And when we get the telephone lines open, that toll-free line will be restricted to people east of the Great Rocky Mountains.
Good morning!
I'm Art Bell.
My guest is John Lear, airline captain, IFO investigator, in semi-retirement.
and uh... will get back to him in just a moment all right back now to john lear
John?
Yeah.
We're getting up toward the modern day here.
But first, let us look at 1987.
And particularly the Gulf Breeze sightings, because that's still going on, John.
It's still going on.
We're getting photographs.
There have been recent photographs.
One, which is a very interesting picture.
A lot of people are following up on that right now.
And the same gentleman at Gulf Breeze, continually seeing these crafts.
What is your assessment of what happened at Gulf Breeze?
Well, I first heard about it in 1987 when the Channel 4, I believe it was down there, put out the documentary.
And it had Ed Walters' film that he took out the back door of this craft hovering behind the tree line there, just over the tree line.
And it was tremendously interesting.
There was no doubt in my mind that From the videotape that this thing occurred, but so many people jumped on it as a hoax and they just did back flips to try and prove it was a hoax.
In my opinion, it was not.
It was the true thing.
Ed Walters just took a tremendous amount of flack over the years for showing this film and for saying the things he did, but I believe him 100%.
He's not easy to get as an interviewee.
I've tried to get Ed Walters a few times and he's somewhat cantankerous and not very interested in publicity.
Is that your take?
I would be too if I had undergone what he did.
I mean, he just took... it was worthless.
Wasn't there something about somebody who supposedly found a model in a house that Walters had rented or something or another?
He sold his house and the people who moved in found in the attic a model of what he had videotaped made out of, I think he's a designer or an architect, out of some architectural drawings that he made.
Unfortunately, the people who tried to hoax this used architectural drawings that were dated after, substantially after, this incident.
Ah.
And it was just a complete setup from beginning to end.
Oh.
Well, and yet, that and the guys who tromped around the field in England and any other story, weak as it may be, John, that seems to make people laugh at all this and say, aha, see, what a hoax, those stories stick like glue.
Yeah.
Fifty people can look up in the sky and see a saucer or see a craft And one stupid story comes along and it blows away all that good... Why is that?
Because the disinformation is so firmly in place after 46 years that there's just no way.
They've done a fantastic job of disinformation.
What is the John Lear hypothesis?
That was the hypothesis that I wrote in December of 1987 when I felt Really strongly that people had to know what we're hearing and they have a deal with our government to provide help in the security and the secrecy of the overall program in return for advanced technology, some of it weapons, some of it other technology.
And it was just something that I wrote then which became So, by 1987, you were deep into it?
your hypothesis and then i've you know modified several of the views but
essentially it's it's perfect
so by eighty seven you were deep into it
deep into it and that's what i gave the lectures at uh...
uh... at the spring valley library at that point and usually i think they have
seating capacity for three hundred and they've never had a speaker of the crew
over say forty or fifty maybe sixty people
and they had uh... seven hundred people show up every time i came to speak
and uh...
It was then that one of the guys who attended the lectures wanted to borrow some tape and came over to my house and brought with him a young scientist named Bob Lazar.
Bob Lazar had formerly worked in New Mexico at the L.A.N.L.
What am I trying to say there?
What laboratory?
Was it Sandia?
No, not Sandia.
I don't know how I could forget that name, but he worked there as a scientist, and he just didn't believe in UFOs at all.
I mean, it was a joke to him.
And we watched some tapes, and I loaned him some tapes, and over a period of A few months, he became more and more suspicious, not so much of the evidence, but of the strange ways in which the government tried to cover up or suppress some of the information.
At any rate, there came a point where he had not been in the scientific community for working with it for several years, and he decided that he'd try and get in and see if he could find out if it was really true.
So, he made application to, first of all, he called Dr. Teller, who he had known from New Mexico, Los Alamos.
Los Alamos, that's the SDI Teller.
Right.
And the father of the H-bomb.
Through Teller, he was given an interview at EG&G, and over a process of, I think it was a couple of months, He was invited to go to work up at the test site.
Now I knew that he was getting interviewed, but I didn't know when he was going.
And then in December of 1988, he came up to my house and I'm writing out some checks and he's sitting in front of my desk and I said, what's going on Bob?
And he said, it was like about 7.30 or 8 in the evening.
He said, I saw a disc today.
I thought I didn't hear him clearly.
He said, I saw a disc today and I said, theirs or ours?
And he said, theirs.
And I said, oh my god, did you go to the test site?
And he said, yeah, I just got back.
And I said, well then what are you doing here?
And he said, obviously they pilot you and you're not supposed to be talking.
Why don't you work up there for a while and then tell us what's going on?
He said, no, you've taken such a lot of flack over this that I think you deserve to know.
And then he launched into what he had seen.
During the time he was up there, which included a disc and some of the technology and a lot of the briefing reports.
We talked for about three hours, as a matter of fact it was three hours and seventeen minutes, because when he got home there was a knock on his door and there were two security guys there who asked him to come along that they had some questions.
They took him downtown to an office there and they said, what were you doing at John Lear's house for three hours and seventeen minutes?
And we had already cooked up a story where I was filling out a log page for his wife, who was a pilot.
And it went from there.
Anyway, he worked up there for about four or five months and would occasionally come by and say what he'd seen.
What was Bob's job?
Bob's job at S-4 was to be a scientist.
He was the back engineer.
One of the extraterrestrial vehicles, in other words, his job was to back engineer the propulsion of the saucer, find out how it worked, and find out if we could duplicate it.
But he said there was only about 20 people, maybe 15 or 20 people working up there, and they didn't really have the resources or the equipment to do a proper job.
And one of the reasons he went public Was his disagreement of how the project was being handled, he felt that it should be more spread around, that people with the actual talent, more people with actual talent should be allowed to participate in this project.
So it was very compartmentalized.
Very compartmentalized, as all things are.
But at any rate, on March 21st, 1989, I was over at his house, and it was a Tuesday, and
he said, John, they're going to test fly one of the craft tomorrow.
Do you want to go see it?"
I said, well, how can we do that?
He said, well, I know a place near Groom Lake we can drive and we can not be within the confines of the restricted area and we can watch it.
So he and I and I think his wife and Jane Huff, who was the one who introduced me to Bob, drove up there and I said, you know, when do they test?
He said, well, right at sunset and it's always on Wednesday evening because statistically That is the time of least travel in that particular area, Highway 375.
So we go up there and unload.
We had my motor home and I had my Celestron 8 telescope, which is a very powerful telescope.
We're unloading it and here this thing comes up from behind the mountains.
They're watching it and I'm trying to focus it in.
It's very difficult because I had the 90 degree objective in it.
Up is down and left is right, but finally I got it and there was no doubt in my mind I was looking at a real flying saucer.
It was kind of yellowish orange and it was radiating something.
It was glowing and it settled back behind the mountains.
And for all the people that try and discredit Bob and say, no, he didn't work there, no, he's just making this all up, you know, the fact is he told me a day in advance exactly what Well, of course, he's been way out on, you know, there's been no remuneration that I'm aware of.
There is some kind of a movie underway, though, isn't there, John?
Yeah, they're making a movie on his life story.
On Bob Lazar's life story?
Yeah.
I think it's New Line Cinema.
New Line Cinema, sure.
I think they're well advanced at the project.
I think they've finished the script.
I don't know too much about it, but... Have you been involved in it at all?
No, not at all.
Not at all.
So, through all these years of doing the interviews with you, John, as you've investigated and I've done radio, I have yet to see you be involved in any profit aspect of this.
And you just haven't gone after it, and I'm sure you could have.
I mean, your name is everywhere in UFO journals and You have been at the very center of it, so you could have capitalized on it at any point.
No, I just wanted to find out what the truth is, if that was possible, just for my own interest.
I love flying, and that's my business, and I do it 18 days a month, and I have 12 days off, and I go out on my days off and take care of my lawn and the rest of the things I have to do.
You were working flying then, of course, as you always do.
Right.
and your whole life is consumed with chasing down every little lead.
You know, I think I got through pretty much as much as we're ever going to find out, and
that was enough for me.
All right.
You were working flying then, of course, as you always do.
Right.
And this whole thing got you fired, didn't it?
Yeah.
I was the senior captain with a very large charter company called American Trans Air.
I was the senior captain on the Lockheed L-1011.
I had been there for six years.
I was a Czech Airman.
On July 7th, they called me to Indianapolis.
I really didn't know what it was about.
I walked into this room and there was the Vice President of Operations, the Chief Pilot, an attorney, and a guy from Human Resources.
They held up an article that had been written about me, and they said, John, is it true that you believe in flying saucers?
And I said, yes.
And they said, why?
And I gave about a ten-minute summary, and they said, John, there's just no possible way that anybody who believes in flying saucers could be a captain for American Trans Air.
You're fired.
You're fired?
Just like that?
I said, well, now look.
I tried not to involve the company at all.
How about if I just not give any more lectures and we take a look at this maybe 90 days down the line and you can see that I've been true to my word and they said, no, this is it.
So they gave me three months' pay if I would sign a statement that I would never sue them, which I did because I couldn't afford to go very long without a paycheck and I went to work for another company.
As you look back on your career now, John, How much effect, other than that particular incident, has there been?
I lost another job that I really would have liked to have had that involved the Air Force and NASA.
It was a project that I really wanted to do, and I was actually hired by the contracting company, but they called me up one day and the contracting officer said, John, I don't know what you did.
To irritate the Air Force and NASA, but when we submitted your name as one of the pilots, they said not only no, but hell no.
So there's been plenty of effect then?
Yeah, I don't give lectures anymore.
I never wrote a book.
I don't intend to.
This is really the only thing that I ever do, is whenever you call, because you've been Really fair with me over the years, and it's just kind of nice to come on and chat once in a while.
Yeah, it has been a lot of years now.
All right, so that's a pretty complete history of your involvement and of UFOs in general.
i've got a fax here and if anybody else who wants to fax us with a question by
the way you're welcome to do it uh... area code seven oh two seven two seven
eight four nine nine market i'll give that number again but but here's a
question for you john is It's a classic.
Art, a lot of people speculate the reason UFOs are kept secret is that it would conflict with religion.
Personally, I think UFOs and religion can cohabitate in reality with no conflict.
I'd be interested in what John has to say on the subject.
As you know, Art, I steer clear, totally clear of any religious aspects of this, because all it does is irritate people.
It really does, I know.
And so I thought I'd just go ahead and get it out of the way with that question.
The answer is yes.
The overriding reason is religion.
And before we go to the phones, if that's what we're going to do... Right after the top of the hour, John.
Right after the top of the hour, we'll go to the phones.
Okay, well then give me time to ask five questions and answer them to avoid having people call up and ask the questions.
All right, good.
You want to start on that now?
Okay.
All right, go ahead.
If they're here, why don't they contact our president?
Well, I think we all know the answer to that concerning our current president, but let's assume we had another president.
And the answer is this.
When you visit an ant farm, do you just talk to any old ant, or do you find the queen and talk to her?
I'm not sure I like being thought of as part of the ant farm, but I guess I am, huh?
Here's the second question.
If the government couldn't cover up Watergate, how could they cover this up for 45 years?
Well, the Watergate episode was an inside job to get Nixon out of office, just as the assassination of President Kennedy was, but with a little more, but not much more, tech.
Now, that doesn't mean I agree with Nixon, but that was an inside job.
The fact is, the government can cover up anything they want to if it's important enough, and I can sure assure you That if you are reasonably well-informed, that you only know about 5% of what there is to know.
I used to wonder about that, John, myself.
But I, too, have joined the club of, you bet they can keep it secret.
Now, let's see.
If what you have to say is really true, John Lear, then why doesn't the government stop you?
Number one, it would only add credibility to my story.
And number two, I don't reach enough people to work to make any difference.
The police systems are too well locked in.
For me to be of any great threat at all.
Without hardware, there is simply no proof, regardless of the number of eyewitnesses.
It's true.
Why wouldn't any of the astronauts or military officers come forward and tell the truth?
The answer is, for the simple reason that all of us are dependent on money, whether through current employment or retirement pay, for our very existence.
For an astronaut or military man to come forward with the truth would net him Three minutes on hard copy and the rest of his retirement working at his 7-Eleven.
For what?
Yeah, I agree.
Although there was a recent statement by Neil Armstrong that would cause your teeth to rattle.
Are you familiar with that at all?
No, what did he say?
Rather than paraphrase it, John, I'm going to dig it out of my computer during the top of the hour and I'll give you the comment and we'll see what you have to say about it.
It's fascinating.
Anyway, do you have one more?
One quick more.
What about the news media, your Dan Rathers and your Tom Brokaws and your Ted Koppels?
Why wouldn't they come forward and tell the truth?
And for the very simple reason that they aren't glorified teleprompter readers.
They have very little to say about what they are going to say.
They can't come in one fine day and say, tonight, I'm going to expose the UFO cover-up.
There are just too many people over him with the best of interests, such as the station license, to let him do that, notwithstanding the fact that all he has is words and no hardware.
So we've got rid of those five questions.
We have, but without fail, John, I would bet at least four out of five of them will be asked before the night's over.
Hey, have you heard this story about the mysterious ocean noise, the thumping or the heartbeat sound?
Yeah.
They say they think it's man-made and they're sending down divers and they say it might be a A ship, you know, even thousands of miles away, these things do travel underwater.
But on the other hand, it might be something else.
Well, yeah, that's... I don't have any opinion on that.
All right.
John, hold it right there.
Relax.
We'll be back.
I'll get that statement by Neil Armstrong.
Stay right there.
Okay.
You're listening to the CBC Radio Network.
my guest is John Lear.
Welcome to my channel.
I'm John Lear.
Radio Netflix.
Good morning, everybody.
I am Art Bell.
My guest is John Lear, airline captain, believer in identified flying objects, IFOs.
He says he knows what they are.
We've done a two-hour review of UFOs since about 1945 or 6.
And John Lear's career and what he's done with UFOs.
And John doesn't give many interviews.
This is one of those rare times.
So I suggest you stay planted.
We're about to open the telephone lines.
In fact, we are going to do that coming up now in just a moment.
I want to remind you the toll-free line for the remainder of this hour and possibly a little longer since we haven't even opened them yet.
The toll-free line is restricted to those of you east of the Rockies at 1-800-618-8255.
East of the Rockies only.
1-800-618-8255.
Well, all right, everybody.
I'm Art Bell.
two five five east of the rockies only one eight hundred six one eight eight two five five
well alright everybody i'm art bell my guest is john lear the son of bill lear uh... who invented the uh... a trap
a track uh... tape deck inlet invented the uh... lear jet of course
John's father had an abiding interest in UFOs.
John got one himself, but not because of his father's, interestingly.
He did it on his own, because of events that we've just documented over the last couple of hours.
Now, back to John Lear.
John?
Yes, Rick?
Alright, Neil Armstrong, On the occasion of the anniversary of the Apollo mission to the moon, was at the White House about three weeks ago now, I guess, four weeks ago, something like that.
Anyway, Neil Armstrong rarely does public appearances, rarely has anything to say, but when he does, wow.
What he said, and I took this quote directly from the NBC Evening News, was as follows, quote, and he said this at the White House, quote, there are great ideas undiscovered.
What do you think he meant, John?
Well, it sounds like a pretty powerful statement.
You know, both Neil and Buzz Aldrin and most of the astronauts, all of them, have seen something.
And they've all seen incredible things.
And they've been silenced by NASA.
Over the years, you know, it kind of wears at them.
They'd like to get it out, but they can't be as blatant and say, yes, I saw this and yes, I saw that.
So I think that's basically what he's saying.
I've heard some of the astronauts come out very vociferously and say, listen to me carefully.
There are no UFOs.
Do you understand what I'm saying?
No UFOs.
And what they're saying is, no, there's no unidentified playing objects.
They're all identified.
The astronauts, particularly the ones that went to the moon, the early astronauts, have all had big trouble, John.
Psychological troubles, a lot of divorces, a lot of drinking, a lot of trouble, period.
And one source of that trouble, one might speculate, is that they have knowledge that they can't talk about that's eating away at them.
Could that be so?
Definitely.
That's one of the ways in which they keep this secret.
It's called pain-drug hypnosis, where when they tell you this stuff, they give you a briefing.
It involves pain, it involves drugs, it involves hypnosis, so that it doesn't bother you that much, but it doesn't always work on everybody.
They know they have this knowledge.
It's hard to know something with the ramifications of this kind of thing.
And not be able to tell.
Yeah, it would eat you alive, I suppose.
John, just before we go to the phones, you have said, and this really is very different than a lot of ufologists today, that you've come to the conclusion that while you were digging in earlier years so that the world might know, you now don't think we ought to know.
Or that we have a right to know?
Or that it would be good for us to know?
Or how do you explain that and why?
Well, it has to do with religion.
And no, people should not know this.
This is something that as irritating as it might be, it's none of their business.
There's nothing they can do to influence or modify it in any way.
It's best they just go on with their lives.
uh... pay their taxes find something to enjoy boating growing water stuff like that i get on with their life
because it there's no reason to go to the stand
and if they do this did the the true ramifications of this
uh... it would bother them uh... it would eventually uh...
it would eventually result in the breakdown of society the breakdown of society
How much do you know, John, without telling me what you know?
How much do you still know that you haven't told?
Not very much.
I've told you much of the stuff.
The stuff I'm not talking about is related stuff.
If you think a while, you can figure out what it's all about.
I've told you most of the stuff.
But maybe not all.
No, not all, because there's a lot of sensitive, very sensitive stuff regarding religion.
All right.
Let us take some calls, John.
And I want to remind everybody, the toll-free line is East of the Rockies only at 1-800-618-8255.
And let us venture forth.
Hi there.
On our East of the Rockies line, you're on the air with John Lear.
Hello there.
No, you're not.
On the First Time Caller line, you're on the air with John Lear.
Good morning.
Hello, John.
This is Kogo, San Diego.
San Diego, yes, sir.
Great show.
Question.
It sounds like if the U.S.
has some of this technology that it really wouldn't be too big of a problem being confronted with other nations like Russia with their tech military.
Do you think this type of technology can be implemented in such cases like war or anything like that?
All right.
What about it, John?
Well, it certainly can, and this may be the result of of the breakdown of the Soviet Union.
Maybe we told them what we got and which direction we wanted to go in.
I don't know that for a fact, but it's possible that happened.
Our technology base is about 30 years of where everyone thinks it is.
When you look at the space shuttle and all the satellites and the neat stuff we got going, our technology base is 30 years ahead of that.
30 years ahead of that?
Just to give you an example of what I'm talking about, About 25 years ago, you read the paper about talking rock technology.
Yes.
And what that was, was they put a rock in an analytic chamber and gave it a pulse, like, hello.
And the rock absorbed the vibrations, and by measuring the vibrations, about a half a second later, measuring the vibrations, they could pull out the word hello.
Well, in 25 or 30 years later, what they have now is a means to beam into a room And pulling off, measuring the vibrations that have been given, you know, any of the crystal structure, like glass or windows or anything like that.
Right.
And pull out a conversation that was held seven days ago.
Wow.
Wow.
That's some technology.
On our east of the Rockies line, you're on the air with John Lear.
Uh, good morning.
Hello.
Hi, where are you, sir?
In Leavenworth, Kansas.
Leavenworth, alright.
Hello?
You're on the air, go ahead.
I was wanting to, uh, Talk about Project Blue Book.
Alright.
I was wanting to find out whether it's still being researched, or if you've even heard of it.
Well, of course, we've heard of it.
John, any comments on Blue Book?
It was, it is no more, or is it now going on below the surface?
It was established in 1948 or 49, and it was brought to a halt in 1969 by the Condit Committee And what they said is, based on all their research, flying saucers did not represent a threat to national security.
Now, they didn't go as far to say as they didn't exist.
What they said was... They're not a threat.
They're not a threat.
But actually, the actual project was called GRUDGE, the research of different sightings.
And yes, that still goes on.
Project GRUDGE is an active project.
That's an interesting conclusion.
To not rule out their existence, but state they have no, they're not a threat to national security, doesn't make sense to me.
If they exist, they certainly would be a potential threat.
Yeah.
Well, they got away with it.
On the toll-free line, you're on the air with John Lear.
Good morning, where are you calling from, please?
Kansas City, Missouri.
Kansas City, Missouri, alright.
Okay, what I want to say here has to do with the religion aspect, if that's okay with Mr. Lear.
Sure.
Okay, now here's my opinion.
This is just my opinion now, so this might not mean anything to you at all, but I am a Christian, and what I have gained from this is that this is just my opinion, but that UFOs have actually been built under the watchful eye of the Illuminati.
Does that make any sense to you?
Yes, I've read that before.
What do you think about that?
Choose your words carefully.
Huh?
It's possible.
For the reason to explain, do you believe in the rapture?
I don't mean to make this into a religious show.
Yeah, please, please don't.
Okay.
Please don't.
In other words, John believes there is a connection between religion and UFOs.
Can he please expound on that?
That you would not find agreeable, and which he would rather not expound on, I think.
John?
No, it's all the same to you.
I do not want to expound on my religious views.
All right.
It's kind of like when you say this, and I guess we have to cover it, John, but when you say this, it's like putting a box on the table that says, do not open this box, and then just leaving it there, and everybody who comes past will inevitably open the box.
And so they want to open the box.
I understand that.
But perhaps some boxes are best left unopened.
Right.
On the wildcard line, you're on the air with John Lear.
Good morning.
Hi.
I'm calling from the Bay Area, San Francisco Bay Area.
Yes, sir.
I can prove right now that what Mr. Lear is saying is the opposite of the truth, because the U.S.
government is not covering up information about the existence of extraterrestrial life.
Government intelligence agencies have been spreading the rumor that aliens are among us to UFO researchers and this has been documented by Jacques Vallée in his book Revelations.
For example, in 1983 the proven disinformation agent Richard Doty at Kirtland Air Force Base invited Linda Howe to That Air Force Base in Chouder, these alleged secret documents claiming aliens among us.
And in 1985, Jacques Vallee and J. Allen Hynek were invited to Norton Air Force Base by some generals there and told that aliens are among us.
And I think it's all a lie, and I have a reason for it.
Well, alright, give that to us.
You said you had proof, sir, so go ahead and lay it out.
The proof is what I just told you, and if you just get Jacques Vallee's book, Revelations, That proves that the government isn't hiding it, it's pushing it on UFO researchers.
And the reason for this reverse psychology disinformation campaign was stated by Stanton Friedman when he said that a belief in alien life would cause people to lose their faith in the value of nation-states and lead to the acceptance of world government, which is exactly what the power elite who control the government wants.
Their multinational corporations have the most to gain from globalism.
All right, so there it is, John.
He lays it out.
It is something he's charging to lead us toward the one-world government, that sort of thing.
Well, I certainly respect his opinion, and since I don't have any hardware, I'm certainly not going to be able to prove what I say.
John, at one time, can you tell the story about Element 115?
Yeah, Element 115 is the power source for these extraterrestrial craft.
We've been able to synthesize up to like 106.
But there is an element on up the line that is 115.
And by pumping protons into 115, it becomes 116, which immediately decays.
the 115, it becomes 116, which immediately decays.
And what the result of the decay is, is antimatter.
And when antimatter is mixed with matter, it's 100% conversion of matter to energy, which is a very, very large explosion.
And what they do is they control this explosion to create heat.
And also out of this reaction, they pull out the gravity A wave, Without going into details, they used to prevail themselves across the universe at speeds hundreds of times faster than the speed of light.
At one time, and you tell as much of the story as you can or tell me to go fly a kite, but you had your hands on some 115, didn't you?
Yes.
Bob Lazar had his hands on some 115.
We did some experiments which proved it was exactly what he said it was.
And I believe it was the evening of the George Knapp, you oppose the best evidence.
We kept very close watch on this stuff, but since we had it four or five months, we became a little careless and it was left out.
And that night they broke into Bob's house and took it.
So you no longer have it, but that's about as close as you've come to hardware.
That's correct.
All right.
On the toll-free line, you're on the air with John Lear.
Hello.
Hello there.
No, you're not.
On the first time caller line, you're on the air with John Lear.
Good morning.
Hi, Art.
This is Randy from Leavenworth, Washington.
Hi, Randy.
I'm calling to ask Mr. Lear about the three different kinds of aliens.
I did subscribe to a newsletter, and it talks about all the government research, and the different type ships are different aliens from different sectors in the universe, and there's the reptilian form, the insectoid, and the human type.
Well, there may be a lot more than that.
John, how many are there?
Well, opinion, and this is only my opinion, there's about 70 types that are visiting Earth at one time or another with various agendas.
Some of them don't have anything to do with what's going on here, they're just coming down to take a look.
But they're all different types.
And some of them, if you had a chance to look at it, you would actually die of fright.
Because they are so alien to what we are used to.
How's that, Culler?
That sounds good.
Thanks.
You would die of fright.
Are they able to appear to us in a form different than that which would cause us to die of fright?
Apparently, some of them can do that, but according to some of the abduction stories, they hide themselves You can't get a look.
You can see their shape, but you can't see their face.
And that's prevalent if you've read John Mack's book.
That's prevalent throughout all the abductions, is they cannot see the face.
Yeah, that's true.
I had John Mack on the program about three weeks ago, John.
Very interesting guy, and I really enjoyed his book.
It was more of the same, but it's interesting stuff.
It is.
You know about the incident in which some young lady apparently set him up?
Yes, I thought that was really disgraceful, but it's just media tactics.
I don't know what she gained by that.
Or whose agenda she was serving by doing that.
It was just an unfortunate incident.
Here we've got a Harvard professor, lots of credibility, and he gets set up.
That's just almost too much for even me.
John, hang tight.
We're bottom of the hour.
We'll be back to you.
John Lear is my guest.
Pilot.
Pilot now.
Captain of an aircraft.
We'll be back with more on UFOs.
From the Kingdom of Nye, this is Coast to Coast AM with Art Bell on the CBC Radio Network.
Good morning, everybody.
I am Art Bell.
My guest is John Lear, and we are talking about IFOs.
In deference to John, identified flying objects.
We'll get back to John in just a moment.
Now back to your calls and John Lear.
John, are you there?
I'm here.
All right.
Are you ready?
All set.
Here they come.
On the east of the Rockies line, top of the morning, you're on the air with John Lear.
Where are you calling from?
Fort Worth, Texas.
Fort Worth, Texas.
Okay.
Yeah, Mr. Lear, you say there are things you don't want to talk about for religious purposes, but I wanted to tell a story that I believe is true.
All the cosmonauts reported seeing these huge, angelic-like beings with their arms crossed and a smile on their face like they knew something was going to happen, and that was before Chernobyl blew up.
And John Glenn reports seeing something on Freedom Plaza flight.
Yeah, it really is true.
With regard to the angelic beings, John, I also remember that report.
Do you?
Yes.
When they had their arms crossed and they were smiling, they were smiling because Chernobyl was going to happen?
Could be.
Now Russia wants Bibles.
What kind of an angel is that?
Russia now wants Bibles in their schools.
Alright, ma'am.
Thank you.
That's no guardian angel, is it, John?
I'd like to have.
I wonder how she could conclude that it was because of Chernobyl.
That's really strange.
On the other hand, I recall you saying one thing to me, John, that has haunted me for years and haunts me today.
Yes.
We have had a number of guests on this radio program about life after death.
Inevitably, in every warm and fuzzy life after death story, People rush toward the warm, inviting light.
Down the tunnel, into the light.
And once you said to me, John, don't go toward the light, it's a trick.
Go toward the darkness.
Well, now remember, I qualified that by saying that's what Whitley Streber told me.
Well, it still bugs me to this day, John, because what if I had to make that choice?
Well, right now I'm going toward the darkness.
You are, huh?
I don't know.
Boy, that really drives me crazy.
On our toll-free line, you're on the air with John Lear.
Good morning.
Where are you calling from, please?
I'm calling from Kodiak, Alaska.
Kodiak, Alaska.
Yes, sir.
Yes, this is Dave.
I've heard John talk about time travel, and I'm convinced that time travel is possible, and it's already happened.
I opened those seals when I was 30 years old, and that, together with my birthday and the Unlock the whole mystery.
All right, sir.
Don, time travel, time travel.
We've talked about it before.
It's one of my favorite subjects.
Do you believe time travel to be possible?
No question about it.
No, really?
Absolutely possible.
You can go forward in time much easier than you can go back, but you can certainly go back in time.
I once wondered, as have many people, and I'm going to make you tell me it's not true again, Well, yes, we've thought about it, but it's a big deal.
You just can't go out and make this thing.
to construct something to traverse time?
Just an idle question of curiosity, John.
If you had such a device... Incidentally, we were going to go forward, because that's a lot easier to do than going back.
That was going to be my question.
Where would you go, time-wise?
Well, all you have to do to go forward in time is create a strong gravitational field.
And you more or less just stay there while all the rest of the world passes, you know, as time goes by.
Then when you remove the gravitational field, you're wherever they were.
I see.
All right.
On my east of the Rockies line, you're on the air with John Lear.
Hello.
Yes.
Where are you, sir?
San Antonio, Texas.
San Antonio, Texas.
All right.
Go ahead.
I've got a story about a friend.
I've known him about 12 years.
He's a retired colonel.
And I'm not going to release his name, he never gave me permission to do so.
But he relayed a story to me and my wife about his encounter with a spaceship.
Now he told me that he was on his way to West Texas, driving, I guess, toward El Paso.
And he and his wife had seen this aircraft, but he said it wasn't an aircraft, it was a large disc.
That it went across his vehicle, came back, Alright, sir.
Thank you.
Well, there's a story.
It's true.
than that the right and then it went and then he's a airport come on which i i think the lady
you know flies out by the flight now he said there's no way in what ever tell him that there
it didn't do it uh... billing all right sir thank you well as a story it's true once you've
seen one yourself your attitude really changes uh... doesn't it john
Yeah, it really does, but so few of us get to see those things.
Now, for instance, I'd love to see when I saw the one that Bob took me up to, and I saw it at night.
Now, my wife, Merilee, who didn't believe in any of this before, as a matter of fact, it almost split up our family because of my interest in this.
She's from Mississippi.
And she just didn't believe any of it.
And here in 1986, I was on a flight to Frankfurt, and she and my daughter Jackie were out in the garden, gardening.
And about two o'clock in the afternoon, Jackie looks up and says, Hey mom, look, a UFO!
And they look up, and here's two of them, at a very low altitude, less than a quarter of a mile away.
I live right near Nellis Air Force Base.
They were coming from Nellis and went around to the southern part of Sunrise.
Now, that's an extremely rare sighting to do in the daytime.
And it really changed her opinion.
Of course, she says, well, I saw them, but I still don't believe them.
But she did see them.
Well, maybe that was the sighting that saved John Lear's marriage.
It definitely was the sighting that saved my marriage.
I really can't understand that, John.
You know where I live out here, and you know what I'm close to.
Yes.
And I see things quite frequently, John, and I'm very hesitant to talk about them.
Frankly, I had one major sighting of an aircraft I told you about, or a craft, I don't know if it was an aircraft.
Right, right.
But I see other things, John, in the night sky a lot.
And now there are those who say that activity up here has lessened or gone away or been moved.
Can you tell me anything about that?
Well, there certainly hasn't been a good sighting in, say, two years.
And so, there's a facility in northern Nevada where they do a lot of testing.
Now, where they do UFO testing, I don't know, but there is a major facility up there.
There's also an increased activity down at Holloman, which seems to be just the new secret aircraft we've got.
But, yeah, there definitely doesn't seem to be as much I wonder if it is the attention that's been given up there, and there's been a lot of it.
There's a lot of people hanging up there.
Of course, they're trying to get more property now and isolate the area.
And there's a kind of a government grab going on for property, as you know, John.
Yeah, and I just don't really understand what the big deal is.
Like in 1980, there was at least 30 AAOs, which are air access only areas in the United States in which, you know, all this weird stuff went on.
So, you know, Groom Lake is just one of a number of facilities.
It has been a pretty intense area, though.
It's been a pretty intense area.
They are.
I'm sure they're going to get the land.
Yeah, I'm sure.
And I've heard that the testing has been severely curtailed for the past year or so.
Until they can, yeah, too many cameras, too many people.
On the toll-free line, you're on the air with John Lear.
Good morning.
Where are you calling from, please?
Oh, just let me get my radio here.
All right.
Get your radio.
Yeah, I've got it.
Where are you, sir?
KVI.
KVI.
We're holding this for east of the Rockies.
Oh.
Thank you very much for the call and the try on the wild card line.
You're on the air with John Lear.
Hi.
Hi, Art.
How are you?
Fine.
Where are you?
This is Bryce in Wichita.
All right.
Hi, John.
Glad to talk to you.
Hey, how are you doing?
Good.
It's been a long time since I've been in Wichita.
I bet it has.
I wondered, are you familiar with the writings of René Goudin or Fitzgibbon?
No.
What's that?
Religious writings concerning No, but that's an interesting thing, a dark light.
I haven't heard that before.
Yeah, you ought to read the Tibetan Book of the Dead and I would recommend people like you to get in touch with people like, say, the Dalai Lama and talk to them about this kind of stuff and see what they think.
People that are realized or that have studied mystical or metaphysical stuff that are, you know, that are in that genre.
Alright, thank you.
John, you don't seem inclined to really be pursuing this much more.
In other words, my assessment of you psychologically is that you have reached some kind of inner conclusion.
And, stop me if I'm wrong, and you're kind of settled about it now.
Is that right?
Settled or fatalistic?
Fatalistic.
I never in my wildest dreams, when I started getting into this, had any remotest hope of finding out as much as I did.
When I found out as much as I did, it was very interesting and, in one way, extremely satisfying.
But I didn't think that I'd find out much more than I did.
So, you know, I continued on my life.
And like I say, there's a lot of guys that just keep plugging along.
I know.
But I think I found out pretty much what's going on, and so I'm continuing my life.
And fatalistic is the right word.
That's kind of ominous for a lot of us, of course.
All right.
On the east of the Rockies line, you're on the air with John Lear.
Hi.
Yeah, I wanted to ask John a question on the time travel bill.
I heard that you can only go so far forward in time and so far backward in time.
Is that true?
No, I think you can go both ways as long as you want.
And to the answer of the paradox, if you go back in time Until your father, will you still be here?
The answer is, yes, you will still be here because time is compartmentalized.
Okay.
You can go back and kill your father, but you'll still be here.
Okay.
That's all I wanted to know.
I was curious about that.
Right.
Thank you very much.
In other words, you will affect the local... All time is local.
Is that right?
That sounds like a good analogy.
Yeah, all time is local.
You will affect the immediate sphere or time that you commit this act in, but somehow time will bend back in on itself, and everything will self-correct, and you'll still be there somehow.
Whatever.
All right.
On the east of the Rockies line, you're on the air.
Good morning.
Yes, sir.
I was wondering, will we be able to get a tape of tonight's program?
Yes, ma'am.
Where are you calling from?
Oklahoma City.
Oklahoma City.
Uh, yes indeed you will, and if you'll listen, I'll tell you how to do it, alright?
Okay, I just wondered if you would.
Alright, alright, I'd be glad to do it.
Uh, sure, if you want a tape of this program, the first two hours we spent on a very careful, uh, chronicling of UFO history, John's involvement in it, and all the rest of it, you can get a tape, uh, by calling right now, Area Code 503-664-7966.
Let me give that again.
Area code 503-664-7966.
And on the east of the Rockies line, you're on the air with John Lear.
Hi.
Hi.
How are you doing?
Where are you, sir?
Erie, Pennsylvania.
Good.
You're on the FLP?
Yes, sir.
Okay.
First of all, love it.
Outstanding.
Glad you're enjoying it.
Okay.
For Mr. Lear, I have a couple questions.
First of all, are you familiar with Guardian?
Yes.
You are?
Oh, I don't know.
I know that he's a good researcher.
I'm sure he's not faking all this, but other than that, yes, I am familiar with the case.
I've been trying to get through all night.
I'm kind of nervous now.
Oh, well, relax.
Just try to remember what you wanted to ask.
I'm trying.
Without getting very in-depth at all about religion, because I know that's a touchy subject, but do these civilizations, alleged civilizations, do they purport to be religious the way we think?
Alright, that's a reasonable question, sir.
Do these beings themselves have a religious faith that we're aware of?
Well, in answer to your question, let me tell you what Whitley Stryber said about that when he was abducted, and he's absolutely, horrendously terrified, and he's screaming, and he's saying, oh God, oh God, help me!
God, God, please help me!
And the little greys are looking down, and very coolly, they said, why do you call for your God?
There's only us up here.
That will certainly serve as an answer, no question about it.
On the wild card line, you're on the air with John Lear.
Good morning.
Good morning.
This is Jim in St.
Louis.
St.
Louis, yes.
Mr. Lear, I want to thank you on behalf of everyone listening for coming on the show.
Thoroughly entertaining.
Well, thank you.
You seem to be hitting everything right on.
For people that call up, they've read a book, or they're real religious, they obviously haven't been following some of the stuff covered on the show.
The cover-up, the military involvement, politics, everything.
You seem to be right on.
I respect the fact that you don't want to go into the religion aspect, because I've read a little bit, I think, of What you've outlined there in a couple of different books.
But again, the astronauts, the whole thing of keeping quiet.
People can't understand.
Why aren't they talking about this?
And that this stuff really is happening.
I'm getting announcements on our station here in KSD that say, this is a warning.
This is not the views of this station.
It is shocking.
It's very shocking.
A lot of it is.
Except my religious beliefs are simply, I believe above all else, above anything else, that there is the God, God, the creator of all things.
And why can these things be happening?
God takes care of other elements of nature in accordance with the plan.
Why can this not be somewhat along an overall plan?
In the plan, in other words, yeah.
Yeah.
Okay.
All right, sir.
Hold on.
Listen to the answer.
Go ahead, John.
What's the question?
Well, the question was, really, he walked around it six ways from Sunday, but he's asking, why can't there be the God we all know, and not we all know, but many of us think is there, who's in control and who's just I'm not properly asking.
In other words, why do God and UFOs and the aliens have to be mutually exclusive?
They don't, but let me tell you a story that Bob Lazar told me once.
We're talking about the universe and the ramifications of it all, and he's telling everybody about the theory that the universe expands Until it can't go any further, and then it starts contracting.
And time reverses, and everything comes down to its original size, less than an atom size, and then starts spreading out the other direction, whereas things only exist that travel faster than speed of light.
And so we came to the conclusion, now, whoever made that, that's gone.
Whoever made that, that's gone.
Okay, well I hope that serves as an answer to his question.
You're on the air Coast to Coast AM with John Lear.
Where are you calling from, please?
Calling from Youngstown, Ohio.
Youngstown, yes sir.
I have a copy of a videotape by Bob Lazar.
I was wondering if Mr. Lear was familiar with it.
Oh, he sure is.
And I was wondering if he could give us some comments about the other two areas of S4.
That Mr. Lazar talks about, about the physics of time travel and the charged particle beams.
All right, we've only got about a minute, John.
Can you do it?
I'm not sure what areas he's talking about.
Yes, that they have both of those things there.
Once, you know, I told you the stories where the hangar door was open.
He walked into the craft to do some work.
He was in there about two hours, and when he came out, It was exactly the same time as before he went in.
And when he asked what the explanation was for that, they said, because the saucer's time shifted.
All right, we'll have to hold it there.
From Youngstown, Ohio, thank you.
John, we'll be right back to you.
Okay.
All right, relax for a few minutes.
You're listening to Coast to Coast AM on the CBC Radio Network.
If this kind of information disturbs you, and it does many, reach over and turn your radio off.
For everybody else, there will be more.
I'm not sure.
I'm not sure.
Call Art-Bell. In the Kingdom of Nigh.
1-800-618-TALK.
First time callers, 702-727-1222.
1-800-618-8255, 1-800-618-TALK, first time callers 702-727-1222, 702-727-1222, or use
702-727-1222.
the wildcard line at 702-727-1295.
This is Coast to Coast AM on the CBC Radio Network.
It certainly is, and for the next 30 minutes, 30 minutes more, we're still going to restrict the toll-free line to east of the Rockies.
We're going to give it another 30 minutes because of the length of the pre-interview before we got to the phone call.
So 30 more minutes east of the Rockies on the 800 line.
All right.
John Lear is my guest, pilot, experienced pilot, many thousands and thousands of hours in the air, and believer in IFOs, identified flying objects.
John's coming back right now.
John, there is a way people can get the videotape that the caller mentioned about Bob Lazar's experiences and his explanation of what these craft are and how they work.
It is very educational.
How do they get it?
They, uh, write to TriDot Corporation.
Now, write the address down, because there is no telephone number.
If you call Las Vegas and ask for information, there is no telephone number.
It's TriDot.
T-R-I-D-O-T.
TriDot Corporation.
1324 Southeastern.
And that's in Las Vegas, Nevada. 89104.
And it's $29.95.
That's $29.95 plus $3 shipping and handling.
And what you get is a 40-minute tape.
It's called the Lazar Tape and Excerpts of the Government Bible, which is a chronological account of government UFO activity details and Bob's experience working with recovered flying saucers for the Department of Naval Intelligence.
It explains the propulsion, construction, and details of where the aliens are from, including what Dr. Teller, All right, good.
That's how to get it, everybody.
And we'll repeat that address down the line here somewhere.
On our toll-free line, you're on the air with John Lear.
Where are you calling from, please?
Memphis.
Memphis, Tennessee, all right.
Yes.
Mr. Lear, it's a pleasure to speak with you.
Thank you.
On discussion of after-death experiences, would you please reconsider and go toward the bright light, the white light, not the dark?
Sure.
There's another body of work known as the Egyptian Book of the Dead, other than Tibetan, and please research that.
Yeah, I'd like to say something about the Bible, one of the most important books in the history of mankind.
The New Testament, like much of the Old Testament, is in many places a greatly altered version of the original accounts on which it is based.
In addition, probably less than 5% of all that Jesus and his original followers taught is found in the Bible.
Many of these changes and deletions to the New Testament were made by special church councils.
The editing process began as early as 325 A.D.
during the First Council of Nicaea and continued well into the twelfth century.
For example, the Second Synod Church Council of Constantinople in 553 A.D.
deleted from the Bible Jesus' reference to reincarnation.
Yeah.
I just wanted to be sure that I got that on, that the bright light, not the dark light.
All right, thanks.
John, why the dark light?
Why going there?
Yeah.
Well, because according to Whitley, if you go to the bright light, you have made a conscious choice of which direction to go, and supposedly, according to him, At that point, if you go to the white light, the Graves or whoever is in charge of this thing can decide what to do with you.
Now, they can either send you back into another body, or they can put you in the black box.
Now, the reason that I wouldn't choose the white light is I don't want to spend what Whitley says is anywhere from 12 to 40,000 years in the black box.
He was in there and he says it's a very frightening experience.
I don't mind being by myself.
I could probably spend a couple years by myself, but I'm not sure whether I could spend 40,000 years.
Whereas if you go towards the dark, you come right back into a terrestrial body, and you can continue on with whatever body you got into.
Alright.
Dear John and Art, this comes from Santa Barbara.
Do you think there are any off-planet guys who are trying to help rescue us from this prison?
Any hope for the future?
Annie, Santa Barbara.
Possibly.
Possibly.
All right.
Tantalizingly just possible.
Also, this question, John, the Philadelphia experiment, do you believe it really happened?
Is there any connection between it and the UFOs?
Yes.
Obviously, something happened during the Philadelphia experiment.
Now, whether that boat actually disappeared or not, I don't know.
But there's enough evidence that something very, very strange happened during that time Due to the government's research into magnetism.
Alright, and one more facts.
This from Lawrenceville, Georgia.
Jimmy Carter had seen a UFO.
He was given a top-secret clearance.
Thus, he was shut down when he became president.
Yes, he filed his report in 1969.
When he ran for president, one of his platforms was I believe in UFOs because I personally see one, and if I am elected president, I will see that all of the information about UFOs is turned over to the public.
Naturally, when he became president, we didn't hear one word, and that's because the presidents are briefed, to a certain extent, on the problem.
All right.
On our toll-free line, you're on the air with John Lear.
Good morning.
Yes.
Where are you, sir?
Yes, I'm in Fort Bragg, North Carolina.
Fort Bragg, North Carolina, okay.
Yes.
Go ahead.
I was listening to your comment about Delta.
Delta forces, yes?
Yes.
I believe some of the things you said, but I think you might have your units wrong.
Okay.
What?
How did I have them wrong?
For one thing, I don't think that 66 people were killed from Delta.
How many people?
I don't believe anyone.
Oh, okay.
But it was a different group?
Yeah, I would say so.
What would you say it is, caller?
What group was it?
That I don't know, but to come out of the Delta community, it would just be noticed right here in Fort Bragg.
There's too many people.
Now, he may be partially right because Uh, he obviously, uh, was in the community, but there are certain parts of Delta which are unknown to other parts.
So, uh, it's possible that you're correct, uh, and that it was just a secret, very secret portion of Delta IV.
All right.
Uh, thank you, caller.
Uh, John, uh, from, uh, the state of Washington, uh, is there any possibility that some of these aliens could come from beneath the Earth instead of from outer space?
Yes, most definitely.
Really?
Oh yeah.
Do you give much credence to the dimensional theories, John?
Well, I didn't used to, but there seems to be a body of evidence now that there is some kind of extra-dimensional creatures appearing here and there.
Yes, I read both books.
What more can I say?
host and with john lear good morning where are you please i can't remember
yes sir i've got a question is uh... mister river anything
double for the uh... betty andreessen story in her belief it kind of pertains to the religious aspect
yes i read uh... both book and uh...
what more can i say there's uh... she definitely is is very religious and she
had a very religious experience uh... during her abduction
uh... i think that the uh... whoever they are who pick it up
catered to those specific belief Oh yeah, that was basically my question.
I didn't know if your beliefs followed along those lines because they were sort of similar to the lights and putting people back in the bodies and that sort of thing.
I was just curious if you knew about that and if you had any thoughts on it.
Well, it's been some time since I read The Address Affair, but she did have a very interesting experience.
Yeah, I read the newest one that gets called Watchers by Ray Fowler, and it was pretty interesting.
I'd recommend it to anybody out there.
We're going to be interviewing Ray Fowler again pretty soon on Dreamland, incidentally.
Oh, that'd be really great.
All right, thank you.
We've had him before, and I was neglectful.
Let me do this now.
We have a new affiliate beginning this morning.
It is KKARAM in Omaha, Nebraska.
So I would like to officially welcome Omaha, Nebraska to the network, and let's keep moving here.
On the wildcard line, you're on the air with John Lear.
Good morning.
Yeah, good morning, Art.
Bob, in Vegas.
Hello.
Hello.
Yes, go ahead.
In 1952, I read a book by a man named Gurdjieff called All and Everything, and there he talked about the spaceship Karna going all over the place, and I went to Europe to work with a Gurdjieff group.
But in 1955, we went on the air with commercial television in London.
And we had a couple there, and I can't remember their name, but we had a half-hour show, and the man who was interviewing them was really trying to break them down that they were phonies, which he couldn't, of course.
After that, I invited them home, or we went to dinner, went to my place, and we talked about Godrejef and his book.
And these people were very authentic, and I do remember the name.
They were a married couple, and we went to a few of the group meetings in London then.
This was back in 1955-56.
And these are all, what I call, good, wholesome people, not phony, baloney-type people.
And of course, I lost touch with them then, but I wonder if... John, are you familiar with Gurdjieff's book, All and Everything?
Where he talks about Karnak, the picture of Karnak.
I'm not catching the last name.
With Gurdjieff.
A man named Gurdjieff.
He has groups that are working.
Say the name slowly, Bob.
Gurdjieff.
G-U-R-D-J-I-E-F-F.
Georges Ivanovich Gurdjieff.
And he wrote the book way back in the 40s.
All right, Bob.
all in everything and as i have been subsequently when i was with this couple
in london and i don't remember their name but i remember going to
cover groups this is back in the fifties
i think we remember that book but i don't know enough about it to make any
comment on it right but he could talk way back then about
the spaceship all right all right bob thank you very much uh... for the
call we appreciate it I guess not enough knowledge to really be commenting about it.
You're on the air Coast to Coast AM with John Lear.
Good morning.
Where are you calling from, please?
This is Tim from KST in St.
Louis.
Yes, sir.
How are you doing?
I want to know if you could tell me anything more about the alien pitcher.
Could you tell Mr. Lear about that experience that you had?
And could you possibly tell me the internet number and how I could get that off the internet when you finally do send that up?
All right.
I will.
Thank you.
Yeah, he's right.
John, I have a young man who has what he believes is an alien creature, the body of an alien creature, which is now dried.
It's pretty good size.
It's very hard to describe, John.
I've got very good 35 millimeter photographs of it, and I've got a videotape of it as well.
I'm getting them scanned and put up on the Internet.
Probably by the middle of next week.
The thing looks, the closest I can come, John, is it almost looks bat-like, but it's not a bat.
It's pretty good size.
It's a couple of feet tall, two or three feet tall, and it is very, very weird.
Now, without seeing it, it would be impossible for you to comment, but it supposedly came from Puerto Rico, where there's been quite a bit of UFO activity, hasn't there?
And so I will show you that photograph when I get a chance, John, and then you'll be able to comment on it.
Yeah, interesting.
I'd like to see it.
Yeah, okay.
It's just something I'm working on right now.
On the toll-free line, you're on the air with John Lear.
Where are you calling from, please?
This is John from Kansas City, Missouri.
How are you doing?
Hi, John.
Well, basically, what I was calling about is just to throw out another theory here, if these things do happen, is essentially You know, like, um, first off, I don't really buy that.
Some alien creatures are really buying, um, using people as food because the simple fact of it being easier to kidnap a group of people to then breed them as cattle.
Would it not?
Well, what about... Are we being bred as cattle?
Who knows?
Maybe we are.
uh... than the other things like you can like when the and carried them in
cambodia uh... and they had in the air
before the pet firefight with them it would be a very good place to collect uh... human body
to study the anatomy because you would have to worry about
taking them in probably bring them back to think like that's a good point
and uh...
truthfully uh...
why are they still interested in this place i mean truthfully limit
naked the word that speak in our galaxy what is so interesting for alright why why us is the
question john why us why are they interested in us i could almost answer
that i mean when you look at the earth it's a hustle and bustle of activity and
growth and beings and intelligence and it's a contrast everything
around it right yeah well you know my opinion is is
it's not that they're that they came here looking down at the uh... we have a
completely different character
I think they created the whole thing, and that's their interest.
So they have an intense interest in following their handiwork.
Yeah, their handiwork being the breeding of the human race over 200,000 years, in which they made 65 separate corrections to make us what we are today, which they refer to as containers.
You know, I doubt if the experiment is over.
I think that it's continuing on.
Uh, each of these separate corrections, they have to, uh, you know, when they bring in the new model, they have to recall the old model.
Uh, and they do that with, you know, mass plagues, uh, uh, floods, uh, gyroscopic precessions of the earth, uh, which I might mention all this EPA and BLM and stuff about, you know, carefully burying our trash.
You know, every 23,000 years, this earth rotates on its axis and takes up a different rotation and essentially cleaned everything out so why are we so
worried that we're about you know a thousand years overdue for this rotation so why
are we worried about all this uh this trash you're talking about a polar reverse well i
just a little bit irritated because it used to take me seven minutes to drive to the
dump but now it takes three hours time for the big clean cleaning
It's all going to be done for us.
We don't have to worry about that.
All right.
On the toll-free line, you're on the air with John Lear.
Good morning.
Where are you calling from?
Calling from Bakersfield, Art.
All right.
We're holding this for east of the Rockies, sir, for about five more minutes.
Thank you very much for the call, though.
On the wild-card line, you're on the air with John Lear.
Good morning.
Good morning.
Wonderful sunshine here.
I think that was Betty and Barney Hill, wasn't it?
No, he said 1955.
Oh, I didn't know when their book came out, Betty and Barney Hill.
It was after 1963.
Oh, I see.
Okay, my mistake.
But anyway, they did allude to the time travel, or the time span, too, I believe, didn't they?
I mean, they were in there for some time, and yet when they came out, it was lost to them.
Yeah, they had that same experience.
Yeah, wonderful show.
Thanks for having us.
All right, thanks for making the call, and good morning.
on the toll-free line you're on the air with john lear hello
that was that i guess john uh...
On the first time caller line, you're on the air with John Lear.
Hello.
Yes, I'm calling from near Albuquerque.
Yes, sir.
Actually, east of the mountains, about 500 feet from the Manzano test range, Sandia Base.
I had a sighting here about two years ago in May.
Since then, I've talked to three of my neighbors who have had similar sightings, a retired school teacher and a real estate agent.
You're not having some of that famous New Mexico Taos hum right now, are you?
No, I do hear strange noises once in a while and they sound like a diesel truck in the distance or machinery clanging around, but some of it I think I'm hearing construction going on on the base.
Now, was your sightings within the Monza Weapons Storage Area, Coyote Canyon?
Well, I was on the highway driving home, and this was a large orange glowing sphere that went over my car, and it was heading due south into that area.
Yeah, well, there's been a lot of reports.
As a matter of fact, when I first got into this, Paul Bennewitz had just lived in the Four Hills section there.
And he set up, in 1980, a videotape which ran 24 hours a day.
He'd change it every eight hours.
And he got some spectacular photos of dome-shaped objects taking off from the Montana Weapons Storage Area.
Well, I sometimes wonder if they're saying that there's less action going on up in Nevada.
Maybe some of it's moved here.
Well, it could be.
Either there or Holloman.
I've also got two acquaintances.
They don't know each other, but they have told me that they were involved One worked for the contractor and the other worked for somebody in the architectural design firm that built all these underground bunkers back in the early 80s out there.
And they said that these bunkers were as big as football fields, solid concrete, they were huge, and of course nobody knew what they were being built for.
And there were no runways.
Yeah, I had a friend that went in one of those things.
And he says that there was nothing in there, but he said it was absolutely enormous.
Yeah.
But there was nothing in there at the time he went in.
All right, caller, thanks.
Can I ask one more question?
Yeah, very quickly.
Do you think that anything will come of this Roswell investigation?
All right, and yes, Representative Schiff, of course, is off and running on the investigation, as you know, John.
Yeah.
Do you think anything will come of it?
No, zero.
Zero?
Zero.
Why do you think that?
Well, because it's a cover-up.
They're not going to let some congressman go in there and find out what's going on.
Yeah, I suppose at the levels all this moves, a congressperson is not much.
All right, John, I'd like you to hold on.
We've got a break here at the bottom of the hour, so relax for a few minutes.
We'll be back to you.
Okay.
My guest is John Lear, pilot, airline captain.
And Believer and IFOs identified flying objects.
That's the nature of the discussion this morning.
It may disturb you if it does turn it off.
If you want a copy of the entire program, you can call beginning right now, area code 503-664-7966.
From the kingdom of Nye, this is Coast to Coast AM with Art Bell.
on the CBC Radio Network.
Now, once again, here's Art.
Once again, here I am, and I want to repeat, we spent the first two hours of the program, if you didn't get it, doing a pretty thorough examination of the history of UFOs and the beginning of John's involvement.
And if you want a copy of this program, the way to get it, get your pencil, please.
...is to call Area Code 503-664-7966.
503-664-7966.
Now, once again, back to John Lear.
John, are you there?
six six four seven nine six six five oh three six six four seven nine six six
now once again back to John Lear Johnny there I'm here lots of people want to
talk to you so back to the phones On the toll-free line, you're on the air with John Lear.
Good morning.
Where are you, please?
I'm in Las Vegas.
Las Vegas, all right.
Thank you.
KTWN, go right ahead.
Hello?
Turn your radio off, ma'am.
It's off.
All right, go ahead.
Mr. Lear?
Yes?
A few callers back, a lady called asking you about the Bible, and you told her something that Jesus said about What did he say about that?
He believed in it, and he tried to tell us that it was true, but it was taken out of the Bible by these council of churches.
He did believe in it?
Yes, absolutely.
Absolutely.
Really?
Really.
However, it was taken out.
Yeah, sure was.
If I told that to somebody, how could I prove it?
You could get Bill Bramley's book, The Gods of Eden.
I think he discusses it in there.
What's the name of the book?
The Gods of Eden.
He goes into it at great length.
What is that author's name again?
Bramley, B-R-A-M-L-E-Y, I think.
Can I get that in a bookstore, I wonder?
I think you can order it in a bookstore, yes.
Well, thank you very much.
All right.
Thank you very much for the call, ma'am.
Have a good morning.
On the wildcard line, you're on the air with John Lear.
Hi.
Radio Free America.
Yes.
Yes, Mr. Lear.
I believe in the Bible and I'd like to talk to you about the Nephilim and how that could correlate into these things that you and Art have been describing and also The fact that Linda Howe reported on these cattle mutilations that maggots on flies wouldn't touch the carcasses for days.
Now that's something that seems a bit unnatural to me and I'd like to ask you, throughout the Bible there is a conflict of good and evil and these things that you guys are describing do not sound very good to me.
Yeah, not warm and fuzzy.
John?
That's correct.
They would not be my idea of warm and fuzzy.
John, why do you think so many people, so many ufologists and people in the various associated fields, want to present them always as warm and fuzzy?
Why?
I think that because we couldn't imagine an advanced society not being warm and fuzzy.
We figure, well shoot, after all that civilization, thousands of years ahead of us, they certainly must have worked out their problems and just want to come down and help us and cure cancer and AIDS and help us get through our food problem and all the rest of it.
It's certainly reinforced by Steven Spielberg.
Yeah, it is true.
John, a few quick ones for you by fax from Alaska.
A quick question for John.
Paraphrase.
The sheep know the voice of their master.
Will we know?
I don't know enough about it.
I know that's a quote, but I just can't put it together in time to give a decent answer.
Well, I can wonder, though, or I can, I guess, Uh, try and help them out here.
The sheep, us, know the voice of their master.
Will we know when that voice comes?
That they are our master, I guess is the question.
Yeah, no.
No comment.
No comment.
Alright, if it's not too late in the show, could you ask John about my guess concerning cattle mutilations?
I guessed the mutilations were to garner the components of a medium used to proliferate recombinant DNA research.
Well, I think, yeah, that's speculation, what it's all about.
Dear John, since 1988, that year to the present, round balls of light have been hovering above my house day and night.
This is not a hoax.
I've been videotaping these round balls of light during the night hours hovering above my house within only a half block at the very most.
Since 1989, I've been videotaping them, and I've got these videotapes.
What would you suggest somebody with evidence of this sort does?
There's not much you can do.
Who's going to listen to you?
I know a few people that have that phenomenon over there, and I don't know what they are, But they are.
But they are.
They certainly are.
Is John implying that the God of our Bible was created by aliens?
No, no, no.
You're not going to get me into that now.
Okay.
We'll just drop that one and go back to the phones.
On the wildcard line, you're on the air with John Lear.
Hi.
Hello.
Hello.
Yes, sir.
Yeah, this is Art in Spokane.
Hello, Art.
And I wanted to ask John what he thought of the possibility that the Deaths at Dulcey were somehow related to the introduction or the further introduction of the AIDS virus into the population and also what his feelings are about the government being somehow involved in the development of the AIDS virus.
Alright, thank you.
John, what do you think about AIDS?
Well, as I said before, there's no question in my mind that the government developed it.
The specific doctor, the Navy doctor that actually did the research, I believe his name was R.M.
Donner, and yeah, we made it.
What it was for, I don't know.
Some people say it was to eliminate or decrease the population, but certainly there ought to be better ways to do it because AIDS takes a long time to affect and also it causes a lot of suffering.
I think our hospitals Well, I know that there was congressional testimony.
population so when people say well if you pick up a bit rather keep the
population possibly but you think even they would be able to figure out a
quicker way to do it well i know that there was congressional testimony
it's on the record john uh... or an inquiry of some scientists
about whether such a thing
could be created that would uh... produce or suppress the human uh... immune
system Yeah, I've got a copy of that.
And that's where they got their initial $10 million funding to create that.
So that much is at least on the record.
All right.
On the toll-free line, you're on the air with John Lear.
Good morning.
Good morning.
How are you?
Fine, sir.
Where are you?
I'm KOGO, San Diego.
Excellent.
John, I had some questions about One of the guests you had on earlier wrote the Montauk books.
Oh, yes.
Preston Nichols.
Preston Nichols.
I had him on the program, yes.
Right.
And I wondered if your guest could make any references to some of the things he said in his books, like the alien treaties or things like that.
All right.
I didn't follow the Montauk books too closely.
I did listen to Preston Nichols several times.
All I can say is specifically, yes, there is an alien treaty, but other than that, unless you have a more specific question.
No, I guess he just wanted a general reference, whether you were familiar with it, whether you agreed with it.
Yeah, we certainly do have a treaty.
All right, one more stab at this, John.
This comes from Veronica in Wichita.
I'm a Christian, but not so arrogant a Christian to believe that we are the only form of life God created.
As the Bible says, in my father's house there are many mansions.
Were it not so, wouldn't he have told us?
Well, somebody had to create everybody, right?
Somebody did it.
Some entity, some something did it.
I think most of us believe that A power far greater than ourselves had something to do with this.
It's just too complex.
All right, on the toll-free line, you're on the air with John Lear.
Good morning.
Okay, hi, good morning.
I'd like to say that just out of common sense and it's one entity and stuff like that, there probably is, even if there is one entity, I'm not saying there probably is, but even if there is, and I go through life, Yes.
Okay.
Time travel, the way you're looking at it, I think time travel back in the past, there's no way you can see time from back in the past, but you'll never be able to travel it.
You'll only see the light from it.
yes okay
time travel uh...
the way the way you're looking at it i think time travel uh...
back in the past there's no way
you can see time from back in the past but you'll never you'll never be
able to travel you'll only see the light from it
and as far as in the future that you might be able to do that too but you'll never be
able to come back to your own time
Alright, Juan, what are you basing these comments?
Well, it's just like, okay, let's say the extraterrestrial.
Okay, you'd be a fool not to think that we're the only ones in the universe.
Well, wait a minute, you are switching topics.
I'm going to explain that.
Alright.
Okay, it's like planets and other galaxies.
We can look at them right now.
And what we're looking at isn't right now.
It's time from way back when.
That's true.
So there may be inhabitants on what we're seeing.
The only way we're ever going to know is to be able to travel faster than the speed of light.
That's the only way we'll ever know.
Which certainly can be done very easily if you have the technology, but I'll have to disagree with you on time travel.
You can certainly go forward in time and you can come back.
Well, I'm sure you can go forward, but I doubt very seriously you'll be able to come back.
Yeah, well, okay, well we disagree on that.
It's just on common sense, though.
I mean, I don't understand how you think you can come back to a time that you can go forward unless you're talking about this gravitational thing where you hold off and you're just, you're thinking you're going forward in time and you're never leaving the time that you're, you know, your time stands still while you're gone.
Where are you calling from, please?
Everett, Washington.
Everett, alright.
John, when I get my time machine, I'll come and pick you up.
I'll take a ride.
Do you think, John, in your life, that you will do that?
No.
You do not?
No.
Why is that such a quick no?
I mean, if you had a chance, an opportunity, with Bob Lazar and others, and lots of funding, would you endeavor to do it?
No, I think, with lots of money, no, it's very complex.
Uh, machinery.
I don't think it can be done.
I'm 52.
I'm going to retire here at 60, and I hope to have, you know, maybe a couple of years of tending my lawn, but certainly there's nothing I want to go back and see or go forward.
It's an interesting concept.
It certainly can't be done.
All right.
On the toll-free line, you're on the air with John Lear.
Good morning.
Morning, Art.
Cliff from Glendale, Arizona.
Carefly.
Yes, sir.
John might have privileged information that might give us a clue to our future.
Have we been told anything that might tell us where we're headed?
I will tell you this, that in my brief career as a ufologist, I've made several predictions, two or three of them, and they've all turned out false.
So I may be a good researcher, but I'm a terrible prophet.
All right, thank you very much from Arizona and, of course, KFYI.
On the wildcard line, you're on the air with John Lear.
Hi.
Hi.
Yes, sir.
Hi.
John?
Yeah.
Oh, this is fantastic.
John, I'm an old fighter pilot from Korea, and we used to fly the old F-86s.
Yeah, my favorite one.
These?
Okay.
They were Pratt & Whitney and...
We do the Rolls Royce engine.
Yeah.
And the only time I ever got involved with your company was when I bought my own jet and it was a Learjet.
Anyway, we had a flame out at about 35,000 feet one time coming over Kansas City.
No, I think it was Cincinnati.
And my pilot came back and we got up there and we said we had to break it down to 25,000 feet.
And we kicked her up again and she flew like a real trooper.
Yeah, interesting.
Oh, interesting as hell, yeah.
Anyway, the reason I wanted to call and get my... I'm calling from San Diego.
The home of the Tailhook Maniacs.
Right.
Yeah, yeah.
We're all a bunch of cowboys out here.
But some of us are really curious about things.
Do you know about Thorne?
Rip Thorne?
No, which one is that?
Well, he's a physicist, a cosmologist out here.
And we were wondering about what the heck was going on.
We were involved in the accelerator up there at Stanford.
Yeah.
Yeah, and we took a whack of things.
My God, I've got a million things to tell you.
Well, you're right in the middle of the action down there in San Diego because that's where the Navy has a lot of their operations and I could tell you some real weird stories
about stuff that goes on down there but you are right in the center of operations.
I doubt if you could ever penetrate it but if you could you'd see a lot of real interesting
stuff.
Well, here's what we got.
We're looking at times 10 to the minus 33rd and we're looking at instead of black holes
we're looking at wormholes.
Yeah.
And this is a concept that Thorne has been preaching for about ten years, and I, of course, I think he's a wacko.
And it's a viable concept.
A wormhole, and you know that we've got a black hole in our vicinity.
Well... And this, supposedly, every galaxy has its own black hole.
You are.
And as far as wormholes, I don't think that's how it works, but go ahead.
Well, it has to do with the space-time continuum.
And I listen to Thorne.
Of course, Thorne's an old buddy of mine.
And at first it's inconceivable.
If you look at the space-time continuum, it is a viable concept.
I think what he is trying to do is figure out how they can get from place to place without
violating the speed of light.
Because they don't have access to the real information of how it works, they invent stuff
like wormholes.
But the way it works is called the instantaneous propagation of gravity.
Science doesn't know it yet, but gravity is instantaneous and there are two forms of it,
A and B.
And basically to travel hundreds of times faster than the speed of light, what you do
is generate a very powerful beam of gravity and pull space towards you.
Space is actually a fabric.
It can be pulled this way and that.
We think of it as nothing.
We think of it as something that's just one hydrogen atom per square meter.
John, in a sense then, you're not really traveling through the space to get from A to B. No.
You are jumping across an area.
Correct.
You are pulling space towards you and coalescing or uniting with space that's maybe hundreds of light years away.
I think I know the concept of a black hole.
because they know that it can be done, they're just trying to figure out a way that it can be done.
I think I know the concept of a black hole. What's the difference between a black hole and a wormhole, John?
Well, a black hole is just a very intense collapsed star which is not letting any light.
It is so dense that it doesn't let light go through it.
Wormhole is a completely different thing.
Wormhole is what they're speculating is how to get from point A to point B very fast without violating the principle of the speed of light.
Do you believe it can be violated, and I don't mean by the method you just described, but I mean in actual speed travel?
No, I don't think you can go faster than the speed of light in a linear direction.
You have to do it some other way.
All right.
On the toll-free line, you're on the air with John Lear.
Good morning.
Oh, good morning.
All right.
Good morning, John.
You know, listening to you today, I'm Susan from Moscow Mills.
And, um... Moscow Mills where?
Idaho?
Missouri.
Missouri.
All right.
KSD, yes.
Yes.
You know, in the fear that some people have of what John is talking about, they must understand that whatever experience that we have as humans or humanoids or whatever, it's a very good experience.
And obviously, Whoever and whatever has created us and whatever use that we have for them, we have use for ourselves, too.
I mean, there's so much love and joy in life, opposed to the diversity, which there's plenty of that, too, but the mind that was given to us and the spirituality that we have needs to be used, and I think that's what he's talking about when he says, Go on and live your life even though you have more information.
That's right.
You get to do what you want.
You get to make your life and have fun and do whatever you want.
Right.
Can you tell me if there's, in the other dimensions of what you're talking about in the 70 or so groups, do they show any sign of their own spirituality?
I'm not talking about religion here at all, but of a separate spirituality or more Intense spirituality, or just different?
No, I don't have an answer to that.
Okay, well thanks a lot.
Thank you very much for the call, and it'll have to be fast, but we'll do one more here.
On the wildcard line, you're on the air.
Hello.
Oh, hello.
I was wondering if you've ever read about people such as Charles Ford and H.G.
Lovecraft and people like that.
I'm sorry, what's the name?
Charles Ford.
Charles Ford and Lovecraft.
Yeah.
No.
Oh, what is it?
Charles Ford?
Charles Ford, yeah.
Yeah, I've read a lot of his stuff.
Yeah, that's what I meant.
It seems that when you talked about, I want to say that I'd like you to expound upon a little bit is when he's referred to that somehow he was considered to be containers.
Vessels, even.
I've heard that word.
Where are you calling from, ma'am?
I'm in San Francisco.
San Francisco.
All right.
John, you've said it before.
Vessels, containers for the soul.
Well, we're speculating for the soul.
It wasn't described in the documents that Bob read exactly what we were containers of.
We could be containers of hormones, enzymes, or whatever.
My own speculation is that we are containers of souls.
Well, I guess it's a good one.
I hope we do contain souls.
You can never destroy the soul.
It goes on forever and ever and ever.
Some people are able to recall.
All right, on that note, vessels, all of you, containers, we are going to have to pause for Mortal News at the top of the hour.
to recall but in fact the soul goes on forever alright on that note of vessels
all of you uh... containers we are going to have to pause for uh... mortal news
at the top of the hour will be back with john lear and more from the cbc radio network
the kingdom of mine you're hearing close to close to him with our bill
the from the kingdom of mine
you're hearing close to close to him with our bill Much more than just a talk show.
To participate in the program, call toll-free 1-800-618-8255.
That's 1-800-618-8255.
This is the CBC Radio Network.
It certainly is, and I thought a bit of the Dreamland theme might be appropriate.
We do that show Sunday evenings, 7 to 10.
Topics?
Always, just like this.
One of these days we're going to snag John for Dreamland as well.
John Lear is my guest, pilot, IFO investigator in sort of semi-retirement now.
back to him in a moment alright uh... john lear is my guest
Back now to John and your questions.
John, are you there?
Yep, right here.
Alright, by fax from Portland, Oregon, Solvia.
Please ask your guest, who does the briefing of presidents when they come into office on the supposed national security aspects of IFOs?
Would be MJ-12.
MJ-12, which still operates.
Who's been making the decisions over the years on the continuity of our government's policy toward IFOs?
MJ-12.
Who decides what the president should know?
MJ-12.
And elaborate on that.
Within the MJ-12 intelligence community, there's a great disdain for elected and appointed officials, which is why the President or the Congress or any other appointed officials don't know very much.
Security clearances work like this.
The lowest security clearance you can get is top secret.
Above that, there's 28 levels of what is called top secret crypto, and they run through 1 through 28, 28 being the highest.
Above that, there's ten names like Umbra, Amber, Ultra, the top being Majestic.
Now, the President of the United States has a clearance about Top Seabird Crypto 17.
He doesn't know very much.
He doesn't need to know very much.
He's kind of a figurehead.
So they tell him, you know, a little bit.
They tell him probably that there's recovered vehicles and And that they maybe have a dead body or so, but he doesn't know the whole story.
He doesn't need to know the whole story to perform his job.
All right.
John, this, and then we'll go back to the phones, from San Clemente, California.
Art, I heard that a nuclear explosion can actually destroy a soul.
And I heard Mark McCandless say there is a death ray that can eliminate the soul.
Does John know if the soul can die or be destroyed?
No, it's my understanding that it can't.
No.
Yeah, I'm calling from Medford, Oregon.
pose a new quid shake it up at least on the uh... toll-free line you're on the air with john lear
good morning hello there
hello yes sir you're on the air uh... or or medford yes what's your question
i don't quite a bit about the report but i think i could go to the fact that
the being seem to be quite interested in him
i i think uh... with the stripper said that he doesn't believe that any
human being uh... really knows
uh... what the what these things are what they really represent
uh...
also uh... for for your information you know what a moscow's
polite you can grab it and make it easier to grab it do whatever you want with it
you like that do you like that analogy john but i don't get the great stuff
The moths go toward the light, huh?
And they're grabbed, or they fry themselves.
On the first time caller line, you're on the air with John Lear.
Good morning.
Good morning.
This is Mike from KC on KCMO.
Yes, hi Mike.
Hi.
I have a few problems with some things you've said, Mr. Lear.
Scientific, but I want to address the biblical issue first.
You indicated that the Bible had been changed at the time of Constantine.
Is that correct?
Right.
Well, are you aware that the patriarchs in the early part of the second century, in their letters and apologetics, had already included almost all the verses of the New Testament in their letters?
This is more than a hundred years before Constantine.
And so that we can find almost all the New Testament just in their letters of writing to each other in apologetics.
And that there has been a copy of the whole book of Mark found in Egypt, dated at the 125.
After Christ, after A.D.
And when they calculate how long it would have taken to get that deep into Egypt, it would have existed before the turn of the century.
Okay, now the changes I'm talking about are 325 A.D., during the first Council of Nicaea.
I know the date, and I'm saying that almost the complete New Testament is already found in the writings of what we call the Patriarchs, some of them which were disciples of John.
in the first part of the second century.
And so we already have the New Testament in letters written back and forth, plus we have a whole book of Mark found in the archaeologist's date of 125 AD.
Then you have even secular historians agreeing that Luke, who wrote the Gospel of Luke and the Acts, was a first-rate historian and had to have been there.
And so I'm wondering where you come up with this conclusion.
I've heard this theory before and questioned people about it, and they insist on it.
But then when you present them with the fact that the New Testament can be recovered from documents before the time they say they were changed, they just kind of go on and don't discuss it anymore.
Well, they may be recovered, but they're not in the King James Version.
Well, that has nothing to do with the reliability.
When you do textual analysis, It's not based on when the King James is written, it's based on the number of manuscripts and how old they are and how much they change over a period of time.
And for the Old Testament we even have the Dead Sea Scrolls, a good part of the book of Isaiah recovered, that we find has changed very little with what we have today.
I'm just saying your conclusions, you say you do careful research and apparently you didn't know that the New Testament was known That's correct.
I'm just saying that they didn't make it to the King James Version that most people have access to.
These manuscripts still exist and we can compare them to the King James Version.
Now, as for science, I'm always upset when people talk about science, but ignore the fact that when they start talking about things that are supernatural they still include science.
I'm going to give you one example when you talk about time travel.
One of our most basic laws is conservation of energy and matter.
Now, if someone comes from another time into this time dimension and brings their matter with them, they have added matter and broken the law of conservation of energy and matter.
When we, by definition, when something breaks our natural laws, we call it supernatural, but everybody seems to want to bring it under the umbrella of science instead of call it what it is.
Which is what, sir?
Okay, so we're supernatural.
Alright.
So where are we wrong here?
Excuse me?
Where are we wrong?
Where are you wrong?
Yeah, you just said it.
Well, admit you're dealing with the supernatural.
That I'm dealing with the supernatural?
Alright, I guess it's a semantic argument.
He wants it called the supernatural instead of science.
Oh, okay.
Sounds good to me.
Yeah, okay.
Um, on the toll-free line, good morning, you're on the air with John Lear.
Yeah, the heartbeat sound in the ocean is government work.
It's gone?
It's government work.
Oh, it's government work.
Yeah, I'll explain that in a second, but I just want to say something to John Lear.
John, everyone around here says you work for Air America, and I don't want to go into that.
About the sonar sound, three sentences.
Thanks to Congressman Sam Farr, a sonar device that might have threatened the environment, ...has been indefinitely delayed.
The Scripps Institute of Oceanography and the Defense Department's Advanced Research Projects Agency have stopped the project's development in order to conduct an EIS.
The $35 million device, part of the Acoustic Thermometry of Ocean Climate ATOC program, would be placed off the coast of Pointer in the Monterey National Marine Sanctuary.
You know, I'm aware of the fact that they have plans, but it hasn't been done yet.
Wait, the device relies on the transmission of sonar bursts, blah, blah, blah.
Well, I've heard the thing over the radio, and it sounds like a heartbeat.
It goes boom, ba-doom.
Boom, ba-doom, boom, ba-doom.
Well, Sam Farr, the Congressman, thinks he stopped it.
Well, 20 miles north of where they were going to place it, a couple of divers heard exactly the same thing.
They just went on with it.
All right.
Big deal.
All right, thanks.
Well, again, I say, as far as I know, they have not yet begun that project.
It's been halted, and so I have great doubts that that's what they're hearing, but time will tell.
On the toll-free line, you're on the air with John Lear.
Good morning.
Hello, Mr. Lear.
Your aviation credentials are certainly impeccable, to say the least, but like the previous scholar said, your science discussion is Kind of strange, to say the least.
It doesn't seem to hold a lot of water with any present scientific theory.
Okay, well, just tell me specifically where I went wrong.
Well, the discussion of element 115 is all based on a non-existent element.
It's existent because I held it.
I did experiments with it.
And this is a stable, non-radioactive element?
That's correct.
Okay, well, let's suppose that's true, and I can't say anything different than that.
I would like to say also, you mentioned the book, The Gods of Eden.
There's recently been released on the internet an excellent, in my opinion, review of this book that says that it's pretty much based on L. Ron Hubbard's Scientology.
What do you think of that?
I don't think so because I've studied Scientology for a very short time and I don't think there's any correlation there.
Well, thanks a lot for your time, and I've been keeping up with your information since about 1988, and I hope it's not all over but the screaming.
Thanks.
All right, thank you.
That's an interesting comment.
I hope it's not, too.
Wild Card Line, you're on the air with John Lear.
Good morning.
Yeah, I'd like to ask John Lear a question, but I really doubt that he can do anything but deny it.
John, how long have you been involved in the occult?
Never, as far as I know.
You're saying that most of the information in the books that you read are not occult books?
No.
No, because I read a book about ten years ago called The Cosmic Trigger, Final Secrets of the Illuminatas, and how they were going to duplicate the second coming of Christ with the alien deal that people would believe that they were going to be saved by aliens.
John, I understand what he's saying.
I'm sure a lot of the religious folks out there think you've got three sixes somewhere tattooed under your hairline.
Huh, John?
Yeah.
Under that gray hair.
Yeah, I see.
John, what about Air America?
Can you talk about that at all?
Sure.
I worked for CASSI, which is Continental Air Services, Inc., a wholly owned subsidiary of Continental Airlines.
We did the same work as Air America, but we were not a wholly owned subsidiary.
Of the CIA, which Air America was.
We did all the same stuff, but no, I did not work for Air America.
I worked for Cassie.
And those that are familiar with the operations in Southeast Asia will know exactly what I'm talking about.
I'm not going to... I was going to bring something up, but I'm not going to.
Go ahead.
Go ahead.
What is it?
Iran-Contra.
Yeah?
You want to talk about that?
Sure.
What's there to talk about?
You transported, or were about to transport, some material to Iran, yes?
Arms and ammunition from Israel to Iran, right?
Uh-huh.
So you ran some of the early weapons that Israel cut loose on our word, is that correct?
Yeah.
I never made a flight.
Like I say, the first airplane in got shot down.
The Mossad, who was running the operation, didn't want to send the 707th in, which I was flying.
So they cancelled the operation later, I think it was like six or eight months later.
They ran it with another airline that was out of, oh, somewhere like NASA or some place like that, and ran it from the Persian Gulf, like Dubai or one of those countries, directly into Iran so they didn't have to go around another country like we did, Turkey.
We had to go through Turkish airspace.
And the deal was that we would drop every other load Or give Turkey every other load that went in, in permission for flying over their airspace.
All right.
Just thought I'd get that out.
On the toll-free line, you're on the air with John Lear.
Where are you calling from, please?
Seattle.
Seattle.
All right.
Yeah, I'd like to ask him a little more about that security that the government has that doesn't allow the President to know very much.
Yeah, uh-huh.
What was that called again?
Well, I was just describing how security works.
The lowest clearance is top secret, and then there's 38 levels above that.
But the President of the United States only has, like, a number 17 level.
And there's not enough time to clear them, nor is there any reason to clear them.
Is this some sort of government agency that does security?
You had mentioned some name.
MJ-12?
MJ-12 was created by President Truman, and it more or less got out of hand in 1952 when President Eisenhower came in.
Being a military man, he gave more teeth and more power to MJ-12, and it got out of control.
They ran the whole operation.
People who think we have a democracy, even a republic, are badly mistaken.
We don't.
But we hear it enough that we have a free country.
You know, the bigger the lie, the more people believe it.
But in fact it's not true.
to do it well but the whole thing okay when i think i could you give the uh... number or not
the number the address to your uh...
to network i'll take it off the on the uh... the address to the network what i
mean there i'm i'm sorry what do you mean sir
the address to the network do you mean to write to me yet to the network yes sir
well to the network is in a separate place than i am do you want to go to the
In Oregon, yes.
Yo, in Oregon.
Yes, sir.
I'd like to see about advertising on your program.
I see.
Okay, well contact me by fax.
Alright, thank you, sir.
Alright, thank you.
And that's area code 702-727-8499.
That's my fax number, 8499.
seven two seven uh... eight four nine nine that's my fax number eight four
nine nine if uh... you want to contact the network directly
it's a record five oh three six six four
8-8-2-9.
And if you want a tape of this program, as long as I'm going nuts with numbers here, it's area code 5-0-3-6-6-4-7-9-6-6.
John, uh, we're in the number mode.
Why don't you give the address for the Lazard tape?
Okay, the Lazard tape is TriDot Corporation.
That's T-R-I-D-O-T Corporation, and it's 1324 Southeastern.
And it's Las Vegas, Nevada, 8-9-1-0-4.
Don't look for the number, because it's not in the book.
It's $29.95, plus $3 in shipping and handling for the Losar tape, where he describes his experiences with the back engineering on the Saj.
All right, good.
On the toll-free line, you're on the air.
Good morning.
Hi, Vancouver, Canada calling.
Great show.
Hello, John.
I don't really know too much about UFOs, so this might be a real basic question, but Can you tell me about navigation of these craft and what they'd be built of?
What kind of compounds?
It's my understanding that the material that they're made out of is more or less a grown material.
They've been able to compact the atom to such a tight state that it's almost indestructible.
We've seen that many times where a saucer will crash into sand and be at a 45 degree angle impact, but there's little or no damage at all.
As far as the navigation, I don't know how that works.
I just know how the propulsion works.
Okay, well best of luck.
Alright, thank you.
John, you remember, first of all, did you happen to catch the movie Roswell on Showtime?
Sure, the producer was a friend of mine.
Oh, what was your assessment of the movie?
Was it good?
Yeah, it was pretty good.
Each time they make a movie, they get a little closer and a little closer to the truth.
I didn't like the way that they portrayed the alien as, you know, some poor lady, you know, reaching out.
Yeah.
And it didn't look all that realistic.
But, you know, it was better than this stuff before.
Well, in that movie and in descriptions of Roswell, there is a number of witnesses, John, who say that a piece of material from one of those craft was held, and they showed it in Roswell.
And you could crumple it up, and it would spring right back out again.
Right.
Is that similar to the material that you described a little while ago?
As the construction?
Yes, sir.
Some of it.
Some of it.
Yeah, you can imagine, I suppose, various parts of it.
Yeah, they're all different.
Uh-huh.
All right.
Very good.
Let's go here.
On the wild card line, you're on the air with John Lear.
Good morning.
Yeah, this is Greg from Kiske, Alaska.
Kiske, Alaska.
Yes, sir.
I missed the first couple of hours because Kate Unite doesn't play those until after you're over.
This may have already been answered, but I've got three short questions for John.
Number one, are you a member of the Trilateral Commission?
No.
How about the Council on Foreign Relations?
No.
How about a member of the Masons?
The Masons?
No, but what is it?
Oh, the Masonic Watch?
No, but I can tell you that I have certainly been accused of that.
Okay, how about the CIA, John?
Let's cover them all.
KGB?
NSA?
No, I'm just a poor old airline pilot.
Alright, is that it?
Okay, caller.
Okay, thanks.
Thank you.
Kiske, Alaska.
Well, that covers most of the alphabet agencies, anyway.
On the toll-free line, you're on the air with John Lear.
Not a lot of time, hi.
Good morning.
About two or three months ago my wife and I were looking at a telescope.
We had a really good view and in the outer layer of the moon there was like a blue half moon but there also looked to be sort of like a craft.
My wife and I don't want to talk to too many people about it because we don't want to be accused of being nuts and all that kind of stuff.
But is that really possible or do you think maybe that was more like a reflection of maybe
the sun or you know of the picture we've got because it was you know more like a saucer
it was like a saucer shape but it was really like an orange type with a little bit of light
Certainly possible.
A very good friend of mine one morning was... John, we'll have to hold the rest of this, I guess, so stay right where you are.
We'll be right back to you.
you're listening to the cbc radio network the
the the
you Call free at 1-800-618-8255.
Call Art Bell in the Kingdom of Nine.
Call free at 1-800-618-8255.
1-800-618-TALK.
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702.
702-727-1222.
Or use the wildcard line at 702-727-1295.
This is Coast to Coast AM on the CBC Radio Network.
He's the granddaddy of ufology.
I wonder if he minds... John, do you mind that description, your granddaddy of ufology?
No, I just became a grandfather to...
A beautiful little girl, Alexandra Lear Stimulatis Tasso, my older daughter.
That was May 4th, and she's about four months old.
Congratulations, John.
Stay put.
We'll be right back to you.
The granddaddy of ufology, and he doesn't mind.
That's John Lear, and he'll be back in just a moment.
Once again, here's John Lear.
Hi, John.
How are you doing?
Final portion now.
From Omaha, Nebraska, somebody wants to know, John, isn't it possible the aliens are lying to us?
Yes.
Several documents said that they are deceptive.
I was going to tell the previous caller that a friend of mine had seen, was looking up one morning ready to go fly, and he saw a saucer one twentieth the size of the moon.
Just go across it.
And while we were talking here, I had a reference that I was going to read, but I can't find it.
A NASA technical document that documents about 600 different types of weird phenomena that was observed on the moon between the year 1600 and now, as far as blinking lights, flashing lights, weird shadows, all kinds of stuff.
And I just can't find it.
All right.
Well, if you run across it, we'll do it.
Matt in Portland wants to know, among other things, about a secret earth war.
Linda Howe spoke about a secret earth war.
Does that make any sense to you?
Yeah.
She was saying that somebody had, you know, they have these secret vaults where they hold high-level discussions that are soundproofed and monitored and swept all the time.
Sure.
And somebody had stepped out I don't know whether you heard any of them with Richard Hoagland.
Yeah.
well-housed secret war going in of course what he was referring to
the conflict we have with the great alright uh... will go and ask you about one more thing i've
done a series of interviews john i don't know whether you heard any of them
with them uh... richard hoagland
and uh... richard did you hear some of that but no i didn't but i just got his paper
It's two new tapes of the structure on the moon that stands something like six or seven miles high.
That's right.
It's very interesting, and I ordered the photographs myself from NASA, and I'm looking forward to them arriving within the next few days.
All right, very good.
Yeah, I have a lot of the pictures.
I also have the videotapes.
The presentation was very captivating, and you would think that it would be breaking in the news, but not so far, John.
No, really.
They're just not interested.
And as far as his work on Mars, I told him that Bob Lazar had seen in his briefing the Cydonia region, photos that weren't accessible to the public.
And there was definite doors and windows and construction on those pyramids in the Cydonia region.
All right.
On the toll-free line, you're on the air with John Lear.
Good morning.
Good morning.
Yes, sir.
Where are you?
I'm Bob from KEXPO in Oregon.
Yes, good, Bob.
I've got a couple questions for John.
One is, if you're familiar with Bill Meyer.
Billy Meyer?
Over in Switzerland?
Right.
Yeah, sure.
When he talks in some of his contact papers about the Pleiades being the oldest group of visitors on the Earth, and they're actually from the same ancestors as we are, the question I have is, they also Believe in reincarnation and they don't really believe in religion as such but more as creation.
They believe in the good and man and what not.
The question I have is they don't like us dealing with the greats because they seem to think they are a negative life force.
Yeah, I heard that.
They came and offered their help to the American leadership at one time or another, and it wasn't accepted.
I'm just kind of wondering, is that just because they weren't offering technology?
They weren't offering help?
Yeah, weapons.
We wanted weapons, and the Grays offered to give us the weapons, and the Pleiadians did not.
All right.
John, I want you to give some advice.
To the young ufologists out there, a lot of people are absolutely lit afire by all of this, and they're going to travel down the same road that you traveled down.
And you've now reached a point where you've said you're fatalistic about it, and the best thing we can all do is go out and live our lives and enjoy our lives.
What would you say to the young ufologists out there, John?
Well, of course, they're not going to pay any more attention to that than I did when people told me that, you know, when I first started getting into it.
Well, I know, but we should try.
We really should try.
I mean, if you were to sit down with somebody who's just starting into all this, what would you say to them?
Good luck.
Good luck?
Yeah.
You wouldn't try to stop them?
No.
No, because I know that the The lure of information, of finding out things, of stuff, is just too powerful.
There's just no way that you could stop it.
Well, that's good and realistic anyway, John.
Thanks.
On the toll-free line, you're on the air with John Lear.
Hi.
How you doing?
We're doing OK.
OK.
This is Dave from Grand City.
Yeah.
OK.
Well, I've got a question for him.
My question is that Out of all the things I've heard him say tonight, how could anything be possible?
I mean, I'm a big Star Trek fan, and everything that he talks about seems to come in there.
How does that all happen?
And could it be possible that someday we could travel like that?
Alright, uh, why not?
John, do you think that is in mankind's future?
In other words, Is there going to be a federation?
Is there going to be an Earth that goes outward?
Is that where we're headed, or do you think not?
No, I don't think so.
First of all, I think the cleaning out of the Petri dish is going to come.
Pretty soon?
Well, not pretty soon, but whenever it comes.
You know, that Star Trek was based on that... Well, I guess I was going to say based on that we were first, but that's not what it was based on.
Jane Roddenberry was supposedly one of three Hollywood producers that was given special information to use in his series.
Now, since then, I've read where he denies that, but who knows?
Who knows?
All right, but you think, on balance, we're going to be pretty much earthbound.
And then there's the Petri dish.
Right.
Enjoy your lives, folks.
On the toll-free line, you're on the air with John Lear, good morning.
Hi, how's it going?
It's going okay.
Great.
I was wondering, I live in Pink, Arizona.
A few years back, a bunch of my friends and I, we were out in the front yard and we saw a great green light beam going across the sky, and it was solid.
And it had a beginning and it had an end to it like water coming out of a hose when you first turn it on and shut it off.
Like a big plasma beam going through the sky and it was a good 30 to 40 feet in diameter and it lasted a good 3 or 4 miles going through the sky.
It was like a big arch.
I was wondering if you had any knowledge of what that might be?
No, that's the first description I've heard of.
There's unusual phenomena.
I've heard a lot of different stuff, but that's the first one I've heard of of that kind.
Boy, me too.
That's an interesting one, though.
All right, on the wild card line, you're on the air with John Lear.
Good morning.
Good morning.
All right, this is Matt in Portland.
Yes, Matt.
Made it through.
John, I wanted to ask you a question very quickly.
You spoke of William Bramley's book, Gods of Eden, where he describes the humans have been manipulated throughout history by extraterrestrials.
And what I wanted to know is if you've had any information indicating that possibly the New World Order push is being orchestrated by these beings?
The order of what?
The New World Order?
No, I don't have any opinion on that.
Art, who's your guest on Dreamlab this week?
Let me see.
My guest coming this week is going to be Dr. Bruce Goldberg, author of The Search for Grace.
Sounds interesting.
Oh, it's going to be.
All right.
Thank you.
Thank you, sir.
Bye-bye.
Let's see.
Very quickly, we'll go to the toll-free line.
You're on the air with John Lear.
Good morning.
Yes, this is Philip calling from Champaign, Illinois.
No, you don't, Philip.
First time caller on the line, you're on the air with John Lear.
Hello.
Yeah, good morning.
I'm calling from the Kingdom of Valley Center, which is in Southern California at the base of Mount Palomar.
Welcome.
It's a famous 200-inch Hale telescope.
You know, Dr. Hale, it's interesting, he never saw his telescope become a reality, but he was led by an invisible dwarf who apparently inspired him, told him where to build it, and that's where it is.
I have two questions.
First of all, what does your guest think of George Adamski, who is also a local fellow here?
He was apparently the father of the UFO culture.
And also, does he have any information on a hypersonic vehicle called Aurora, which is apparently a top-secret thing coming out of a base in northern Scotland?
We have a lot of sonic booms here on Wednesdays and Thursdays, and we've been hearing that this is coming from this Aurora vehicle.
Which does something strange over the San Diego area.
Alright, hold it there, let's get a response.
John?
Well, George Adamski reported everything exactly as it happened.
He was reported to be a hoaxer, but no, all that stuff happened to him.
The photos were analyzed by friends of mine who had very good analyzing equipment, and it was true.
There was one picture of him looking outside of a saucer and that was true.
Hale had a very interesting background.
There was an alien that talked to that guy and led him in some of his research endeavors
and he has a very, very interesting history.
The Aurora is a Mach 15 airplane operating out of somewhere in the United States but
also goes into Macrahenish which is in northern Scotland.
I see.
Yeah, that is one of our top secret, one of our six top secret airplanes.
How high does that fly, do you know?
285,000 feet.
Wow.
Okay.
Alright, thank you.
And at Mach 15?
Yeah.
People say Mach 7 or 8, but it's not, it's Mach 15.
Mach 15, wow.
Um, Tolfi Line, you're on the air with John Lear, hello.
Hey, this is Dana and Eugene.
Hi, Dana, KPMW Country.
Yeah, um, When I lived in Redmond, Washington, I was over at a friend's house and there was an army intelligence guy who his dad worked with for a lot of years.
And this guy sent him like just a thousands of page document.
He was supposedly on the run from the government because they were trying to hunt him down.
And he sent like six of these papers out.
And one of the things he said was that Roswell, and he was giving, I mean, case file numbers, everything, anything you could possibly want.
I just barely saw the document.
But we just sat around and talked about it one night.
He said, at Roswell, they recovered the bodies.
One of them was alive.
His name was something like Emu or Enu or something like that.
They had, like, two separate brains, one on the left side, one on the right side.
That's correct.
They ate human flesh.
Oh, please.
I didn't know that.
Yeah, go ahead.
And just, you know, he went into the whole cover, but I mean, he detailed everything from, you know, different fighter pilots, their names, their vehicle identification number, everything, you know, just hundreds of documents on that.
It would be great to get those documents, wouldn't it?
Oh, I wish I knew the guy.
I mean, that was the only time I ever talked to the guy.
I moved like a week after that.
All right.
Thank you.
John, a brain on the left and a brain on the right.
Yeah, it was called bifurcated brain system.
They were completely independent and separated by a ridge bone.
Now why that was, I don't know, but I remember reading the autopsy report on it.
Wow, you have an autopsy?
Well, you know, the stuff that Stringfield put out.
Alright.
On the wild card line, you're on the air with John Lear.
Hi.
Yeah, this is Louis over in Chico.
John, about two years ago I had an opportunity while I was back east to run into an intelligence officer.
I won't give his branch service because I certainly don't want to get him in trouble.
But he worked out of one of our top command units back on the east coast.
And he told me that, now this is what he said, that the aliens that supposedly that our government's dealing with Are in a non-interference type of pack.
And that, that there were other aliens who were interfering, and he said there was actually three levels of government in this country.
And they're all vying for positions of power, and they're kind of all in like a standoff.
Uh, to each other because, you know, different groups of these supposed aliens have, uh, uh, upped the ante, you know, it's just kind of like here on Earth, you know, Bosnia, you know, somebody gets an AK-47 and the next guy gets a nuclear bomb.
Yeah, I agree with that, and I think your friend was right.
He also said, though, that the ones that, you know, they kind of kept an overall picture of the thing.
He said that most of the abductions were not being carried out by aliens, but they were being carried out by the government, and it was for use for later, you know, they were programming people.
They would go out and find people who would be susceptible to this.
He said they had special editions of films that were very subliminal and they would get like a control who would make friends with certain individuals and they would go over to the guy's house you know and show him a special copy of E.T.
except the guy's not knowing he's watching a special copy of E.T.
and they would program these people up to a point where they would either give them a hypnotic experience or they would actually and I thought this was kind of amusing but he said they actually hired dwarfs and would dress them up And have a whole theater set up to be like a ship and give these people a physical experience so that even if they took them out and they got out to a psychiatrist or a hypnotist who was not even believing in this, when he would put them under, he would get the reading back from them that they actually believed what they went under.
Alright, kind of a mission impossible sort of setup.
That's true, and it's been detailed by Martin Cannon.
The government abductions, and yeah, they do pretend they're aliens.
I don't think it's the predominant form of production of abductions.
But yes, the government is certainly doing that.
There's a lot of research now, John, into the abduction phenomenon.
A lot of the researchers have sort of left the sighting mode, and they think the way to pursue this now is through the abduction phenomenon.
Do you agree with that, John?
That'd be hard to do, but I'm just going to sit and watch.
On the toll-free line, you're on the air with John Lear.
Hi.
Yeah, this is Rich in Anchorage, Alaska.
Hello, Rich.
I guess you could call me one of them fat, dumb, and lazy Americans, because I just got turned on to your program a little while ago.
So I'm learning.
But I was wondering if you could explain to me what MJ-12 actually is.
All right.
Well, we did earlier, but we will again.
John?
MJ-12 was the government secret reduced body that was put together by President Truman in 1947 to review and decide what to do about the alien threat, if any.
It was given teeth by President Eisenhower when he got in, and regretted by President Eisenhower when he got out.
He said, beware of the military-industrial complex, which MJ-12 essentially run.
For the people who don't believe that MJ-12 exists, my source Uh, for the existence of MJ-12 was Jimmy Doolittle, and since he's passed away now, uh, I don't mind saying that that was my source.
He confirmed to me that it did exist.
All right.
On the wildcard line, you're on the air with John Lear.
Oh, good morning, Nard.
This is Dan the Man from KWCWN Live.
Yes, real quick, because we're almost out of time.
Okay, um, what I wanted to say was, uh, that, uh, Dr. Frank Stranges, have you heard of him?
Sure.
Okay, well, I'll try to... Would you ever have him on your Dreamland?
No, no, I have not had him on Dreamland.
Okay, well, he would be a very interesting person to have.
He says that one-third of the fallen angels, you know, the ones that came from heaven, are part of the UFO phenomenon.
Alright, on that note, we're going to have to close out, John.
We're out of time.
We've done it again.
Made it all the way through.
Great, Art.
And, you know, as long as you are around and I'm around, John, I'm sure there'll be another show in our future.
OK, Brian, anytime.
And it's a pleasure.
It's always a pleasure, my friend.
OK, thanks, Art.
John, thank you.
Good night.
OK, good night.
I'm sorry, everybody.
We are utterly out of time.
As you know, I'm ruled by the clock.
It is the nature of things.
And I would like to tell you one more time how to get a copy.
of this program, because I know a lot of you tuned in late.
A lot of you would like to archive a program of this sort with somebody like John Lear, and I can surely understand that.
So, here's how to do it.
You can call right now.
We have a vastly improved tape delivery system for you all.
They'll get it to you within a few days, they tell me.
MasterCard and Visa work just fine.
The number to call And you can do it throughout the weekend.
You can call it right now if you're able to get through.
Otherwise, throughout the weekend, area code 503-664-7966.
Once again, area code 503-664-7966.
You'll tell them you want the program with John Lear.
It has been a pleasure.
Once again, area code 503-664-7966.
You'll tell them you want the program with John Lear.
It has been a pleasure.
This whole week of talk radio has been a pleasure.
Dreamland comes up on Sunday.
I'll be here, back here, with the syndicated program, Monday night, Tuesday morning.
So, for the live portion, you'll get more in some areas, some stations, but that's it for the live portion, and this week of Coast to Coast AM.
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