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July 31, 1994 - Art Bell
02:03:58
Dreamland with Art Bell - Cattle Mutilations - Linda Moulton Howe - UFOs, Cattle Mutilations, Aliens
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The following program has been pre-recorded for brightness.
Welcome to Dreamland.
A program dedicated to an examination of areas in the human experience not easily nor neatly put in a box.
Things seen at the edge of vision.
Awakening a part of the mind as yet not mapped.
And yet things everywhere.
It is real.
Read, but don't see.
This is Dreamland.
Good evening.
It's Sunday evening and this is another Dreamland program.
I'm Art Bell.
We are blessed this week with a full visit from Linda Moulton Howe.
Linda Howe has been our reporter on the Dreamland program since its inception and way back to the previous program we did called Area 2000.
And I think you're really going to enjoy her.
I would like to, um, announce the addition of a couple of new affiliates this week, too, as a matter of fact.
K-M-M-S-A-M, Bozeman, Montana.
Welcome.
That would be, um, uh, George Carter, the individual responsible for getting us on there in Bozeman.
thank you George and WBKV AM in West Bend Wisconsin and again the
responsible individual Bob Bonifant I hope I've got that correct, Bob.
Thank you very much.
Good to be on the air up in West Bend as well.
So, with a couple of brand new affiliates, mentioning that we have a regular reporter will not be a familiar thing to you.
And I guess the first thing we ought to do is at least get a brief sketch of Linda Moulton Howe.
Linda, hi.
Are you there?
Hi, Linda.
We do have a couple of new affiliates this week, so they won't know you.
This will be the first time they heard your voice, so I suppose we ought to begin by telling them a little bit about you.
No, I'm going to request you to do that.
Tell us who you are and why you're doing this.
All right.
Well, I guess my journey into all of these unexplained phenomena began back in 1979.
I was director of special projects at the CBS affiliate in Denver, had been a television producer for 10 years by then, having graduated from Stanford University with a master's degree in communications, in which I did my master's film on both science and medical projects at Stanford University, and went on in my television career to do live studio programs, documentaries, and news reports about science, medicine, and the environment.
And that's what led me in the fall of 1979 to start investigating the strange bloodless deaths of animals, especially cattle, throughout the United States, Canada, and other parts of the world, all found with essentially the same parts taken, an ear missing, an eye taken, the jawbone stripped, sometimes the teeth and jawbone removed in very smooth oval cuts, The genitals removed in male or female almost 100% of the
time and the rectums poured out and sometimes even the tails of these animals removed in a
vertical smooth cut at the base of the spine and in many of the cases, probably another
majority excision was the removal of tongues in a very smooth vertical cut deep within the
throat of an animal, something that predators do not do and all of this added up together
to a mystery that seemed to have something to do with a contamination perhaps in the
environment and I began the investigation trying to find out if there was some government research
project that was examining tissue from animals spread out throughout the United States but
nine months later after talking with literally hundreds of people ranging from law
hundreds of people, ranging from law enforcement to ranchers to fellow journalists, all I
enforcement to ranchers to fellow journalists all I heard were stories about encounters with
heard were stories about encounters with football field sized orange glowing discs or beams of
football field sized orange But nine months later, after talking with literally
light or all kinds of anomalous things.
And that led to my first documentary, A Strange Harvest, that was broadcast in May of 1980.
That was a primetime Arbitron and Nielsen rating that week.
And the program got a 19 rating and a 37 share in the Colorado, Nebraska, Wyoming area, which
said that more people wanted to watch a program that was exploring the animal mutilation mystery
than made for television new movies that week.
And that also said something to me about how many people had knowledge about this mystery,
but were not talking.
And that became very clear when literally hundreds of phone calls and letters started
pouring into the station with people telling me about their own encounters, experiences,
mutilations, encounters with lights, circles in their pastures, and on and on.
And now it's 1994, some 14 years later.
I have done productions on child survival efforts for UNICEF.
I have done science programs, a story for McNeil-Lehr.
I have worked on an environmental series for Earthspeed in Atlanta, the Turner Station.
I have done other productions having to do with all sorts of other subjects, but throughout the last 14 years, It has been a constant challenge to me to try to keep up with what appears to be an expanding and complex series of phenomena that now range from the crop circles, the animal mutilations, the human abductions, issues about mind control, the increasing number of Marian apparitions, apparitions of the Virgin Mary around the world,
And the whole big question, what does the government of the United States and other governments know?
And why have they chosen a policy of silence, basically, about all these unexplained and unidentified phenomena?
While people in the grassroots, and I know many of our Dreamland listeners fall in that category, are having encounters.
Whether it was yesterday or last week or last month, I know from the letters that I receive and that other investigators receive, that people are having personal experiences and encounters.
and I know from the physical traces that we are all investigating,
whether it's crop circles or the mutilations or some other phenomenon,
that these mysteries continue to date in the United States and other parts of the world,
and in Dreamland and in my work as a television producer and a writer,
I am trying as best I can to bring to focus the best hard physical evidence,
the best firsthand eyewitnesses, because I think that is the part that is not being
addressed in the mainstream media, that we do have many people, many events, many experiences
that are unexplained, but the world in general is not aware that even 10 miles in
the next town, that several of these events could be happening on one
night, and nobody cares about it unless we report it on Dreamland
or programs like this.
Well, with all of that conventional background and then sort of a plunge into the strange harvest, if you will, that's quite a change, Linda, and I'm kind of wondering what your colleagues, as you began to explore these other possibilities, began to say.
You've been very conventional.
Did they start kind of chuckling behind your back, or what's the reaction?
Well, I think I had won too many Emmys, had participated in a national Peabody, station Peabody award, and had received the highest honors in the journalism Sigma I had just won too many journalism awards in the ten years prior to when I did A Strange Harvest.
It was very difficult for people to attack me or my work.
Fortunately I had ten years under my belt by the time I started on A Strange Harvest.
I'm on the sidewalk going to lunch that a reporter from a newspaper in Denver that I knew came up to me and said, I hear that you're looking into these animal mutilations.
And I said, that's right.
And he said, why are you doing that?
He said, all you're going to end up doing is hurting your credibility.
Don't you know that this is just all foolish?
There's nothing to it but predator.
And that reaction I've always been surprised by because it doesn't take very much hard investigative research into the animal mutilation phenomenon to find out that there are many cases going back before 1979 and certainly since 1979.
That never could have been explained by Predator.
So to find my colleagues dismissing the subject because it was socially the more correct position rather than looking at the facts, that bothered me.
And I think that's bothered me over the last 14 years.
and I think it's part of the reason why I've tried very hard
to bring to bear what I consider to be hard professional journalistic ethics
to pursuing these stories and trying to bring to the public's attention
in documentaries and books the hard facts.
And in my newest documentary that has just been released, it is Strange Harvest 1993 and it focuses on the events in
Alabama and other parts of the United States and the world just
last year, just in the year 1993.
And the feedback that I have gotten from people now ranging from some major network broadcast people to others
is they are astonished because they know that there is nothing in that film
but hard fact, first hand testimony.
And for the most part, people were not aware that as many events were happening at the same time.
All right, good.
Linda, hold on just a moment.
We'll be right back to Linda Howell.
nineteen ninety three and i think that's one of the great values that a
journalist can bring to bear on some of these stories because part of my work and my goal is to synthesize
the event so that people can see what was happening in a period of time.
Alright good, Linda. Hold on just a moment we'll be right back to Linda Howell.
How many of these mutilations
or incidents do you think
can be attributed to either predators or satanists or in other words
something external to what you believe may be involved?
Thank you.
Well, I can give you a summary from my first book, An Alien Harvest, in which I did an interview with the head of the Colorado Bureau of Investigation, which would be comparable to the state's FBI or CIA.
Sure.
And he had several large cartons with full of file folders on the floor of his office.
Every one of them was a mutilation report.
They, out of all of those reports, they had only tried to get tissue from 19 animals.
There are hundreds of files.
19 animals to the Colorado State University pathology lab up there for any kind of necropsy or tissue analysis.
And out of those 19, I believe over half were The official word on the report was cut with a sharp instrument.
There was no other delineation on those reports back then.
That was in the 70s.
Alright, well that certainly leaves out a predator.
How do you rule out a Satanist?
I think that you have to then come up further into the 80s into the work that Dr. Altschuler, the pathologist and hematologist in Denver, that he and I have been doing.
In which we now have, it may be 45 or close to 50 case studies where the tissue from some of these animals under a microscope shows that the hemoglobin has been cooked, literally subjected to something hot enough to cook the blood.
That eliminates not only predator, but from most law enforcement research, satanic cults also.
And it was about four or five years ago that I got a call from a detective down in Southern California.
He said, we're having a lot of problems here with satanic cults.
And he said, I'd like to have a meeting with you and with a sheriff from the county in which I'm working.
And he said, I'd like you to bring your best cases, we'll bring ours, and let's compare notes and see if we have overlap.
So we had a meeting, and the first thing that the sheriff did was look through my book, An Alien Harvest, which has a lot of photographs in it of the animal mutilations and other assorted aspects around them, including finding tripod marks and all kinds of things.
And as the Sheriff looked through my book, he finally stopped, looked up at me, and he said, Miss Howe, this is not what I'm dealing with, with satanic cults.
And then they laid out for me their evidence.
And it is astonishingly horrible, nothing I would describe over radio, television, or any other way, And one of the primary aspects of a lot of what they showed me was the presence of an enormous amount of blood in a variety of situations, even if they involved animals.
In the mystery that I've tried to investigate for the last 14 years, the one major characteristic right from the beginning that was always puzzling to law enforcement and ranchers, is they would get to some of these animals warm to touch, which from a pathology point of view means that they can't be dead longer than 10, 12, 14 hours, depending on the, and if it's winter, it's even less.
and yet there would be excisions in which the ear was gone, the eye was gone, the tongue
was removed deep into the throat, a large udder, 18 inch by 22 inch ovals in the belly
of the animal would be gone, the rectum and the vaginal tracts would be removed and yet
there would not only not be any blood, there would be no fluid.
And the lack of fluid at excisions in an animal that is warm to touch, that is not normal.
And in fact what I'd like right now to do Art is to play for you an excerpt from an
interview if I can.
You tell me if we have a commercial problem.
But I have an excerpt.
How long is it Linda?
Maybe three minutes.
And it is an interview and if you want to do it after the break.
Yeah, why don't we do it after the break?
It's going to be a little close.
Right, and just to let people know, this is an interview with a rancher who last Sunday, this is only one week ago, found his 11th animal mutilation, cattle essentially, on his ranch east of Towers, New Mexico, the 11th since 1993.
And he describes on this tape how he compares all 11 and his own comments on a similar question.
Why do you think that many people argue it's only Predator?
And he gives his own comment as a rancher who has been dealing with this phenomenon now by almost a dozen cases in 18 months.
So many of these have come to the fore, Linda.
Has anybody ever been caught Anybody or anything caught doing these?
Since 1967, in the first reported mutilation of a horse in Southern Colorado, there has never, to date, been an arrest and arraignment of an individual anywhere in the world concerning animal mutilation.
Boy, that's really weird.
Yes.
That's really weird.
So whoever is doing it is doing it Very well.
and worldwide, bloodlessly, over and over, taking the same tissue and in many cases not even leaving
tracks anywhere around an animal that's on wet ground.
After all of this investigation, Linda, who do you think is doing it?
In other words, do you think that it is some sort of E.T.
presence?
Do you think that it is the government?
Who do you think is responsible?
Do you have any guesses?
Well, as people know who have read my books and seen my documentaries, going back all the way actually to 1980 and The Strange Harvest, What astonished me was my own discovery of the circumstantial link between what people were reporting.
A huge 300-foot diameter orange glowing fluorescent disks over pastures lighting up a barley field, for example, light enough that the farmer said, I could read a newspaper on my tractor by that light.
By an object that completely overwhelmed the sky above him.
And at the same time, he had two animal mutilations on a nearby ridge.
Other people, sheriff that I knew and told me this confidentially, would never go on the record.
That's the problem.
People are afraid to tell some of the more bizarre parts of the story.
He and his own son watched a beam of light come down in a pasture where they were in a stakeout because of all the animal mutilations.
He said that beam of light came down, lighted up an entire pasture, and they could not hear any noise.
They could not see any running lights.
They could see no object, just a gigantic beam of light lighting up an entire pasture from Those are the eerie marks of this phenomenon which has been frustrating ranchers and law enforcement now for 67 to 94 and probably earlier at least 30 some years.
Boy.
And that's what I'm trying to find out, and when we come back from the commercial break, I will play the comments of this rancher, and we can also discuss more the circumstantial and hard eyewitness and physical evidence that seems to link something out there that is not understood at all, perhaps, to these mutilations.
Alright, Linda Howe, our guest for the full Dreamland program.
This week, we'll be talking about this and a lot more.
Actually, her knowledge is very wide-ranging, and so stay tuned.
There's a lot more to come.
You're listening to Dreamland on the CBC Radio Network.
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From the Kingdom of Nye, we continue with your calls on Dreamland with our...
Call Art now, toll free at 1-800-618-8255.
Call now toll free at 1-800-618-8255. 1-800-618-TALK. First time callers area code 702-727-1222. 702-727-1222.
1-800-618-TALK.
First time callers area code 702-727-1222. 702-727-1222.
702-727-1295, in the 702 area code.
Now again, here's our panel.
Now again, here I am, Linda Howe.
727-1295, 727-1295 in the 702 area.
Now again, here's our panel.
Now again, here I am, Linda Howe, Linda Bolton Howe is my guest,
and we're going to get back to her and to some phone calls following her report in just a moment.
Linda.
Hi.
Yes, you've got a report for us.
Yes, and so people will know, again, this is from a rancher who has been ranching for over 30 years in an area that is east of Taos, New Mexico.
He is comparing and describing as the tape starts the 11 cattle mutilations that he has had since 1993, of which I've been able to get tissue from three of them to John Altshuler since early this spring.
And on the two that we found May 14th, Dr. Altshuler's report in pathology findings was a number of excisions in which the hemoglobin had been cooked on both of those steers on May 14th.
He is getting the tissue from last Sunday's and I'll probably be able to report on that next Dreamland.
But this now is Eli Ronich comparing, from his point of view, the 11 cattle mutilations on his ranch since last year.
All those last year were all exactly the same.
They had anus was scored out, scrotum was scored out.
Right eye gone, tongue gone.
And there's never been any blood, never been any tracks.
So when you come upon one of these animals now, anki 11, like you said today, when you've seen one, you know what you're looking at.
What do you say to people who argue it must be predator?
I don't argue with them.
You know, you have to see it to believe it, I guess.
I don't, you know, I've been in this business all my life.
I'm 45 years old and I know what a critter looks like when he dies from natural causes, lightning or whatever.
And the first thing you see is you take the eye out and there's blood all over their face.
And their tongue is usually hanging out and maybe the bird might peck on it or something but it's not cut off down at the larynx.
And these incisions, especially around the scrotum and the anus, I mean it's a round cut.
It's not a I would say it's not kind of jagged, but, you know, it's not done by an animal.
Is it smooth?
It's actually smooth.
This deer today looks just like the other ones.
I'll bet a thousand dollars that it's been cut so hard, too, because I looked at it.
You can kind of see that seared edge.
That darkened edge.
Yeah.
Well, we must have now over 40 some animals that Dr. Altshuler has analyzed the tissue.
And they've ranged from deer to rabbits to cats to cows, horses.
And what he sees, that dark edge on the tissue, he also feels pretty confident that he's going to see under the microscope that the hemoglobin has been cooked.
So, you would think that that fact alone would have some impact on people
constantly trying to blame the sun predators?
Well, you know, I've had friends that had it 20 years ago and they raised quite a stink about it
and the state hired some investigator and after all this, that's what they came up with, that it was a predator's
fault.
Why do you think that that is the conclusion, when clearly, that's not what the truth is about?
I don't know, it almost seems like they're trying to admit the truth.
That's what it feels like to me.
I mean, somebody, somebody in our government somewhere knows what's going on.
I mean, there's been too much of it in too long a time.
Somebody knows what's going on and they just keep kind of brushing it off or trying not to stir public opinion up or whatever, but you know, I don't say that I know what it is, but I damn sure know it's not a predator.
You know, it's very obvious that somebody or something is working on these animals and I really feel like they're doing it somewhere else because it's just so, so clean of a deal.
If you find one right away, Like the next morning, before the cattle and stuff drop around it, there's never no tracks.
The animals are clean.
It's just, it's almost like they work on them somewhere else and just drop them back in the pasture.
Right.
And what's puzzling also is, why does anyone or anything bother to return the animals?
That's right.
And these birds, like these birds down here, on this one, they're sitting on him, but they haven't worked on this animal at all.
They just sit there and walk around on it, get on the ground and look at it and stuff, but they don't really... A natural death, we had a lightning killed one here a couple days ago, and shoot, the bears and birds already eat him up.
Right.
In other words, they're much more aggressive.
Oh, yeah.
Yeah.
So there's even unusual predator reaction to this mutilation today.
Yeah.
I think the first one I had last year, the very first one I found, the bones and hide are still just, you know, it just kind of decayed and mummified.
Predators never did do nothing like that.
So that's firsthand from a rancher who has dealt with 11 of these, has been ranching for over 30 years, and you heard him say, I know it weaves damn well on this one, it's not a predator.
Sure.
And I've heard that hundreds of times from ranchers who actually get angry when somebody from law enforcement sticks their toe on one of these animals and says, well, Probably coyotes or dogs did this, and the rancher has said with great frustration, that is not teeth marks.
So, that's one of the things that is important about continuing to report the facts on these, and to encourage anyone listening, if they hear about anything like this in their area, please get in touch with me.
I'm working with Dr. Autschuler, on a grant this year in which we're trying to work with
more veterinarians and medical people on the animal mutilation mystery with the idea that if we
can at least continue to corroborate some of the findings that we already have and add any new
corroborate some of the findings that we already have and add any new information
information that we're building case files of hard data that certainly cannot be dismissed as predator
that we're building case files of hard data that certainly cannot be dismissed
as predator and the issue of satanic cults even from law enforcement's point
and the issue of satanic cults even from law enforcement's point of view their case files don't
of view, their case files don't match what I have investigated.
match what I have investigated.
Linda, I don't know a lot about animal habits, but you have said that after
these mutilations other predators will not touch what remains of the carcass.
Now, would it be normal that if an animal were killed by another animal, other
animals then would not follow up and finish off whatever was left or is that
abnormal?
Remember what he just said there at the end, that one of his animals, that same week that he found the mutilation, had died of a lightning strike, a very natural event among cattle.
And that animal was completely consumed by birds and other predators within a day of its death.
So that would be the norm?
That's the norm.
But in the animal mutilations, not everyone, that's another strange thing about this phenomenon, as soon as you say, well, everyone does this or does that, there will be a next mutilation that predators will eat it.
Many, many cases have been written about and people have noticed that there was no predation, that the bones in the hide would lie there for months, nothing would touch it, and that has been one of the mysteries.
Isn't that something, I guess animals have senses and so forth that we're not sure about, but wouldn't there be some way of identifying what it is that is keeping those other animals away?
It must be some scent, it must be something that science could identify.
Maybe.
And if there is any scientist listening to our program who has any ideas about how we could further investigate some aspects like this one, why would predators not touch an animal, I am certainly happy to hear from anyone because that's what we're trying to do.
We've had resistance in the past to any kind of scientific investigation because professionals did not want to get involved, afraid that their reputations would be damaged.
Now, I think there's too much much history on this and there are too many files and there
is too much evidence and I am beginning to see more and more interest by professionals.
So anyone listening who has any idea what more we can do, please get in touch with me.
And this might be a good point Art to give my address.
And when I give this address I am going to also follow up with an extraordinarily interesting
excerpt from one of our Dreamland listeners to give people an idea about what the community
out there of people listening have experienced in their own lives.
First I'll start with, it's Linda Howe at Post Office Box 538.
In Huntingdon Valley, Pennsylvania, spelled H-U-N-T-I-N-G, D as in dog, O-N, Huntingdon Valley, Pennsylvania, And the zip code is 19006.
And before I read this extraordinary excerpt, I also want to make an announcement that is very gratifying to me, Art, and that is that the Barnes & Noble Bookstores will now be carrying my new book, Glimpses of Other Realities, throughout the United States.
That's wonderful.
Oh, yeah, and that agreement was made Friday, and so all of our Dreamland listeners can see glimpses on the Barnes & Noble bookshelves in a few days.
And for listeners in Denver, Colorado, the large and very wonderful Tattered Cover Bookstore has been carrying all of my books and videos, including this newest documentary, Strange Harvest, 1993.
and so has Alexandria, two bookstores in Pasadena, these being just two of the largest independents.
Other bookstores around the country do, but I thought it would be definitely appropriate
to thank these two bookstores because they have been long carriers
of doing these kinds of books, like Glimpses of Other Realities,
that has 300 images in it of which most are color, is a very difficult project to do.
And the fact that more and more bookstores around the country are responding to people's phone calls,
and they're getting in more and more of these books and videos,
is, I think, is a step in the right direction.
And I encourage all our listeners to call up the Barnes & Noble bookstores in their area
or any other large bookstore.
And put in their requests, because the more demand there is, the more some of us will be able to continue our investigations and research reports about this difficult and controversial phenomenon, unexplained, that sometimes the so-called more major publishers in New York don't want to spend money on photographs and drawings.
They may do an all-print book, But for those who have seen glimpses of other realities, I think they would agree that the photographs and the drawings are equally as important as the text.
Absolutely.
So with that, hopefully this means another step forward for reaching the general public with this information.
And now I would like to share an excerpt from one of our Dreamland listeners and he is speaking We're talking about experiences from 1989 to 1993.
1989 to 1993 and this is an excerpt from this man's letter.
I work as a security police officer at AF Plant 42 in Palmdale, California, and in July of 1989, during the time of the B-2
bomber rollout, we were visited by UFOs on many occasions on different days.
They were basically of the surveillance type, the white-band horseshoe type, with its intermittent bronze flashes that hover at extremely high altitude and come in in fast enough to glow bright red when first observed.
Now what's interesting is that he uses that term horseshoe type.
That was essentially the drawing that was done by Kenneth Arnold in association with
a newspaper reporter back in 1947 of the alleged disks, only not disks.
They were drawn as looking like more like a horseshoe or like a boomerang flying over
the Cascade Mountains.
And I thought that was interesting that this security officer is saying that he has seen something similar out over the Palmdale area.
And he goes on to say, they hover at extremely high altitude, and they come in fast, glowing red, and then they wobble at a high altitude, and on one occasion in broad daylight, three spherical craft in a V-shaped formation just appeared in the sky, and then disappeared after a short run across the airfield.
The round disks, when first observed, had bright red leading edges, which indicated that they had arrived, he thought, in the atmosphere at a high rate of speed, but they might have been some light configuration.
They appeared to disappear just as quickly as they came, but actually accelerated from a slow speed, like a fourth or faster.
A fighter pilot encountering such sophisticated craft as these round objects would report that, quote, they just see them disappear before their eyes and off their radar, unquote.
From June 8, 1993 to the end of October 1993, I watched a mysterious round craft that came and went over the Antelope Valley above the Mojave Desert.
I observed this craft in the daytime when clear and far partly cloudy and became very familiar with what it could
do in the sense of aeronautics.
It hovered at very high altitude most of the time between 1130 to 1300 hours.
It wobbled away on one occasion, drifted on others, and on numerous occasions would accelerate
to the speed of something like a shooting star and actually would reverse direction
at that speed from a forward motion to reverse.
Mind-boggling to say the least.
During my numerous observations of this unusual craft, I always knew and had a sense that it knew I was watching
it.
It was a feeling that I received.
It was as if something was intelligent, extremely conscious of my watching it.
But, I had the feeling that one gets when looking into the eyes of a wild tabby cat.
That whatever it was was neither friendly or hostile, just indifferent to my being there.
Yes.
On two occasions, I caught this round object without lights on.
And when that happened, this craft looked like a round or egg-shaped object.
It had a burnt copper, it was burnt copper in color, with a portion of the craft having shiny, triangular-shaped surfaces like facets on a jewel.
This is a portion of a very long letter from a man most of these people don't want to be identified on the air and I thought that's fine and I respect that.
I think it is appropriate to report some of these excerpts from people of their own But they are claiming are their eyewitness accounts.
Someday maybe some of these people will feel comfortable to be public and we might do some on-air interviews.
But he wanted to stress, he said, Linda, you and others have talked about the interdimensional aspects of this phenomenon and he basically was saying, I want you to know that there's a big physical aspect to it because I've seen this myself.
Well, um, I don't know what you say about that.
It's another very, very good sighting report.
And there have been so many, Linda.
It astounds me to this day that there can be so many reports, so many people can see so many things.
Right.
And yet, still, as it says in the beginning of the program, we can't put this in a box.
Right.
When is the day going to come and how is it going to happen that we'll finally be able to identify what's going on here?
Oh, I wish I knew, and I wish that it would happen sooner or later, because I really do feel that we are on the brink of a revolution, as we've discussed sometimes in the past on Dreamland.
that the revolution involves simply accepting the fact that we are not alone in the universe.
And believe it or not, even though the listeners to Dreamland may not feel that that is a major step forward,
the truth is that over 90% of the planet is really not paying attention to much of this.
That's right.
And there may be philosophical subsects in various countries that do accept the fact that we are not alone in
the universe, but the majority of people on the world still live in that
socially accepted, politically accepted, economically accepted paradigm
that we are still alone.
Now once that shifts, And that's, you're asking, that's the fundamental question.
What is it going to take to make that revolutionary shift so that the entire planet understands, sees, and totally agrees that we're not alone in the universe?
It may be that governments feel they're over such a barrel.
They may be so afraid that the status quo, the economic system, the political system will be in some sort of jeopardy depending upon what is out there and its motives, that they would rather just keep everything under wraps, just let everything keep going forward the way
it is because it makes life easier than announce something that may not necessarily be
a problem.
It may not be that there is something inimically bad to all of this.
It may simply be that it is just too much of a problem to handle and that they are waiting
for generations to keep passing on and the next generation comes and more young people
are accepting the fact that there is some other life in the universe and that by some
point in the future there will be enough people who are never going to be troubled by the
idea of some kind of a craft or even reports that maybe some kind of humanoid extraterrestrials
were involved with the genetic manipulation of this planet in the distant past.
All of those, I think, are issues the government is very afraid to deal with.
And so when we say, what will it take?
That, I think, isn't just a simple answer.
I don't even think if a silver disc landed on the White House lawn the way things are currently from the government's point of view.
All right, we've got to break away here a minute.
Stay right there.
We'll be right back.
This is the CBC Radio Network.
From the Kingdom of Nod, you're hearing Dreamland with Art Bell.
Finally, at the White House the other day, made an appearance,
Neil Armstrong said the following at the White House, quote,
There are ideas, undiscovered breakthroughs, available to those who can remove one of truth's protective
layers.
There are places to go beyond belief.
End quote.
That's Neil Armstrong.
One more time.
Listen to this quote.
There are great ideas undiscovered.
Breakthroughs available to those who didn't remove one of truth's protective layers.
There are places to go beyond belief.
End quote.
Linda, are you there?
Yeah.
I found that to be More than just a little intriguing.
The man seems to be suggesting there is something for us to know if we just dig.
Right.
Well, the only... I guess it's sort of third-hand removed, but when I was working on UFO report sightings in Los Angeles in 1991, I interviewed by phone and then eventually for the hour special several of the astronauts.
And in the research that I was doing with the astronauts, one of them told me something interesting.
He said that he understood that one of the reasons that Neil Armstrong had not done anything publicly was that he was personally, Armstrong was upset.
Because they had seen something on the moon that it was silver and round.
And that he and other astronauts, although they remain nameless, have been upset that there has been some kind of a, well, it's a kicked around word, cover-up.
Sure.
You could use a less conspiratorial sounding word and say, simply, a policy decision was made Anything truly anomalous was not to be reported, again coming back where we left off before the break, to the idea that the status quo may be what the government or governments and various administrations have been fighting to keep in place for a long time.
And even the announcement that there was a silver disc on the moon might have been considered too revolutionary for the Cold War at the time or a number of events.
So now, the fact that Neil Armstrong would say something that is at least provocative, that is a provocative sentence coming from the first man to step on the moon.
Yes.
The fact that he would be saying that now may be an indication that what this other astronaut told me may have been pointing in the correct direction, that Armstrong does know much more than he's ever reported, and that one of the reasons for his own silence over these many years has been that Some people have chosen simply not to say anything because they didn't want to have to mislead.
Well, I've seen a lot of interviews with the astronauts on television, Linda, and inevitably the interviewer will get around to a question, well, did you see any flying disc with a little chuckle or anything strange up there?
And if you watch them carefully, inevitably they're very, very uncomfortable with that kind of a question.
That's right.
They are, and the very fact that they, uh, I call it the mainstream media, not that it is more important or less important, but it is that there are the networks and CNN and others, and if they take a position of sort of implying That even the discussion of some unidentified object in the sky is worthy of some kind of ridicule.
It makes it impossible for legitimate scientists and astronauts and other people to feel comfortable in any discussion, even if they themselves know for a fact that there is some kind of humanoid intelligence out there that sends grey androids here and that there is something going on about Denise, I'm going to take that out and we're going to try and start all over again here.
What we don't do is give first names on the air.
So let's just say it's Denise in San Diego.
How's that?
Alright, let's do it. On the wildcard line, you are...
Call toll free 1-800-618-8255.
Denise, I'm going to take that out and we're going to try and start all over again here.
What we don't do is give first names on the air.
So, let's just say it's Denise in San Diego. How's that?
Okay, that's great.
Alright, good. Go ahead, you're on the air.
Hi, Linda?
Yeah.
Um, I wanted to call up and say hi, and I had written you about a UFO sighting in Arizona.
Yes, I remember, and I think you're going to try to get me some photos.
Yes, and, um, they should be back Tuesday, and then they'll be out to you, and to Mr. Bell.
Wonderful.
That's great.
And is this a story that, depending upon how everything looks in the further discussion, we might be able to report some excerpts from it on the air later on?
That will be fine.
Okay.
Okay, and I just wanted to say it's great listening to your show tonight.
Great.
And thanks a lot for having Linda back on.
You bet.
Thank you.
And we'll do that, of course, from time to time.
Linda, while we're on the subject of photos, I received one last week and I've never in my life seen anything like it.
And I don't know that it directly relates, but I want you to listen to this letter that I got.
First, let me thank you for The Daily Show and for the Dreamland program.
It is fantastic radio.
A week or so ago, I heard you talking about the Halloween show with a listener.
I missed most of it, but if you're interested in ghosts, here's a photograph that may be one.
A friend of mine who was a stonemason was working on an old home in Los Angeles on finishing the wine cellar in the old existing basement.
He photographed his work for his scrapbook.
When he developed the pictures, this is what showed up on one picture.
He did not see anything when the photo was taken.
However, on questioning, the architect was told that three crews, carpenters and so forth, walked off the project.
It seems they felt very cold air, and some were pushed down the stairs by an unseen force.
Since these photos were taken, I've talked to the architect and was told the home is about 100 years old, was listed for sale after the man who lived there died.
The architect also told me that a Chinese man was interested in buying the home.
But when they brought their priests to okay the home and bless it, they left in a hurry, screaming.
Evidently, the new owner, who's having it completely renovated, knows about the ghost, but does not know what has happened to the workman.
Nor have they seen this photo.
The friend of mine who took the photograph is a Muslim.
A very religious man, does not have any interest or belief in ghosts.
Just thought you'd like to see it now.
He also has the negative.
And what this photograph is, is a picture of some stone work that he apparently did in this home.
And lo and behold, taking up about a third of the picture, and it's a high quality 35 millimeter photograph, is, I would say, a partially formed entity.
Clearly with a head, a torso, arm, leg, And it almost looks like smoke, but it obviously is not.
You're able to actually look through most of it and see the stonework in the background.
Um, so that if you can imagine a kind of a very smoky, almost solid look in a couple of places, but half-formed.
That's what I've got.
I've got this photograph, Linda.
It is astounding.
Well, I'd sure like to see it, and I wonder, Art, when you say entity, is it humanoid shape?
Yes.
So it's definitely humanoid shape, and does it seem to have a human-sized head?
Yes, it would be proportionally, yes, would be a head.
Alright.
Yeah, maybe there is some way that you could get a copy of this and send it to me.
I'm already arranging it, Linda.
Great.
Because there is a scientist I know, and we've spoken together in conferences, who studies ghosts.
He's been on Unsolved Mysteries.
And what I could do is also discuss this with him, do an interview for Dreamland in the future.
I would love it.
I would love it.
All right.
Let's do it.
All right.
First time caller line, you're on the air with Linda Howe.
Hi.
Hi.
Yeah, I've witnessed a couple of UFOs, but I wonder, well, about three different times in my life I reported every one of them.
One of them actually turned off my My car coming up the coast of Ventura, it was kind of a white phosphorous wedge, it kept flying at me at a very high rate of speed, except the car that it turned off had what they call a perfection engine, a $2500 dragster type engine, and I'll make a very long story short, we tore the engine apart and found out that the distributor shaft, which has absolutely no friction on it, none whatsoever,
It was just, it looked like it was cut by a hot knife.
No twisting, no torquing, no burn mark.
Just like it was cut.
But all it does is turn a little plastic rotor.
And then it hovered out there and I made some very detailed notes on a little best pocket tape recorder that I had.
I was recording some notes for business when it happened.
I got out of the car, recorded the kind of what I felt was like a low resonant sound.
I wouldn't even describe it as a hum.
It was more of a vibration that you felt rather than you saw.
And then it just disappeared in the other direction.
That was the third time I witnessed a UFO.
Aside from the UFO topic, I wondered if Linda had any information on the black helicopters.
Yes, Linda, what do you know about black helicopters?
It's an enormous subject, and the black helicopters have been associated with the animal mutilations going all the way back to the 60s, coming true every year and every decade.
In my first documentary, A Strange Harvest, I interviewed the then head of the animal mutilation investigation in the district attorney's office in Trinidad, Colorado, a man named Lugia Roto, who is now sheriff of Los Angeles County.
And when my camera was running across the desk from him, not only did he surprise me in his answer to my question, who or what do you think is involved with these animal mutilations?
He said that he and other investigators had come to the conclusion that it was creatures
not from this planet, gave his own experiences of encountering big orange lights that split
in two and were tracked on radar and went down into the ground, came back up out of
the ground, all sorts of weird things.
But he said he also come to the conclusion with other investigators that many of the
silent helicopters that were seen above pastures, even in pastures in a few cases, in and around
the events of animal mutilations were, this was his word, camouflage of some kind of advanced
technology of whatever this intelligence was that was interacting with our planet, involved
with mutilations.
Did he actually write that in the report?
No, it was in the interview and it's in my documentary.
In other words, he's on the film and it's in the documentary.
he's on camera saying this.
And that was very important because I had heard things similar to this from other law enforcement,
but Lou Giroda was the first law enforcement guy to go on the record, it's in the documentary,
and he's never changed his tune.
If you talk with him to date, he would say the same thing, that if this is an advanced intelligence
and they have work to do on this planet, that it made sense to him that they would camouflage
their operations so that we wouldn't pay any attention to what they were doing, just like, as he said,
a good undercover police officer uses camouflage.
And that was his official point of view.
All right, wild card line, you're on the air with Linda Howe, hi.
Yes, I was trying to ask her why.
Why is it only small groups of people, maybe one or two or three, ever see UFOs?
All right, where are you calling from, sir?
Green River.
Green River, Wyoming.
All right.
Why does just small groups of people seem to see them?
It's a good point, Linda.
Why not an entire city?
Okay.
The idea that only small groups of people see something in the sky that's round is not always true.
there have been mass sightings in Japan uh... and uh... there have been beach scenes where people
have seen something round uh... it is not just the one, two, three
uh... people uh... for example uh... if you go
you could say that five or six people is still a small group of people but that's
getting up into quite a few multiple eyewitnesses and there are many cases now in the abduction literature
where groups of people in five, six, seven, eight have not only seen something that they described as not
being from anything they recognize on this planet, round and
glowing and hovering in the air but appear to be involved in where one or more of the
people from the group have missing time and then you get into the abduction
syndrome In New York City, Bob Hopkins has many cases of people seeing some kind of an object outside of apartment buildings and so forth in that very crowded city.
I've talked with a woman who lived on the 21st floor of a building that was not too far from the U.N.
and she said that one night at 2 o'clock in the morning she was waked up.
She did not know why she woke up.
As many of the tall buildings in New York do, people don't have shades or draperies.
They just have their glass window up when they're up on 21st and 22nd floors, unless
there's a building close by.
And she went into the living room and she said to her complete astonishment, outside
the window was something she couldn't see the ends of it.
It was round and it was glowing red and it had a, to her, a spherical shape.
And she said, I wondered how many people on the street might have seen it.
The problem is, there may have been dozens of people down in the street who also thought that everyone is so afraid to report.
Alright caller, um, anything else?
Yeah, and the other thing, uh, 25 million people have seen UFOs?
Roughly?
Something like that?
Oh, from the, uh, like the Roper poll and so forth?
Uh, something like that.
Why is it, how many of those do you believe are True, and how many do you think is speculation?
I'll take my answer off it.
All right, thank you.
Well... This is decades into the land of speculation because none of us know how to answer a question like that with any firm validity.
All I can say is that if you and listeners went through the research files, let's say, of an engineer like Dick Haynes in California, It was amassed an enormous amount of data on reports from airline pilots, military pilots, people who are highly professional to be handling such responsible jobs as being military pilots and airline pilots, who have encountered objects in the sky, either policing their airliner or their jet or their helicopter or some other military vehicle.
And have made such reports, and many of them are so anomalous, and I think that one of our big problems here is getting to the general public enough of the hard data, of which there's a lot that exists, but it's difficult getting it all put together in such a way that it can get out there in a credible And this will also sound strange, Linda, but the fact of the matter is, a lot of people don't look at the sky.
That's true, Art.
I mean, they just don't look at the sky, and what you don't look at, you don't see.
That's right, and I'll tell you another thing.
I have had some communication with someone who claims they are reporting to me from inside government knowledge.
Now, I can't prove that yet, and may never be able to prove it, but they said something extremely interesting the other day.
He said that they know that we're dealing with a technology that has the ability to deflect photons.
If it deflects photons, it means that you could have an object.
It could be a mile wide.
It could be sitting up in the sky.
If it deflects the photons that are radiating from it, there's nothing on the ground.
There's no eyes, no animals.
At that level, the redness are not going to see it.
Now, that gets into the DA and Sheriff's speculation about the helicopters also being camouflaged.
We could be dealing with an intelligence that has such sophisticated abilities to camouflage, deceive us.
to work around us and among us in such a way that for the most part we don't even know
it's there and then you get down to the question why does it reveal itself in these odd ways
ever.
All right, Linda Howe, hold it right there.
We're at the bottom of the hour.
We'll be right back with more calls.
My guest, Linda Howe, you're listening to Dreamland.
From the Kingdom of Nigh, we continue with your calls on Dreamland.
Call Art now, toll free at 1-800-618-8255.
1-800-618-TALK.
First time callers, area code 702-727-1222.
1-800-618-8255 1-800-618-TALK
First time callers area code 702-727-1222 702-727-1222
1-2-2-2 or the My guest is Linda Howe.
Back to her in just a moment.
It's over a highway.
727-1295, 727-1295, in the 702 area code.
Now again, here's Art Bell.
Now again, here I am. My guest is Linda Howe. Back to her in just a moment.
...over a highway, and having late model cars stop dead in their tracks, while older cars continue to run.
We've had three cases of this reported in the Salt Lake City area in the last two weeks.
I've personally checked out the story with one of the victims.
Any comments?
I don't have any recollection of anything that dramatically a contrast and I would like very much to have any copies of a newspaper report or some of the people involved if you have them.
But it's a very important I think that's a very important story because it would perhaps give some insight into what are the frequencies or energies that come off some of these craft that would interact with new cars and not with old.
All right, I have a detailed report from the same person which I did not read and which I will forward to you, Linda.
Great.
All right, back to the phone lines.
On the first time caller line, you're on the air with Linda.
Hal, where are you calling from, please?
K-O-G-O.
K-O-G-O, San Diego, yes.
Yes, I just want to talk about, uh, uh, if you hear about the SETI program.
SETI?
Yeah.
Oh, yes.
The SETI program at NASA?
Yes.
What about it, sir?
Well, uh, right here in San Diego, uh, we have a Channel 29 with a NASA program.
You know, it's like a learning channel.
And one of the speakers in the SETI program speak about that.
They finally have a communication from an intelligent being.
Oh yes, Linda.
There were a number of reports that the SETI program has yielded some number, I don't know about a confirmed intelligence, but that they have apparently Some signals that they consider not at all to be random.
Have you heard anything about that?
Yes.
In my book, Glimpses of Other Realities, at the beginning of Chapter 4, I was going to write now, it's Time Magazine, June 21st, 1993, about a little over a year ago, page 19.
Quote, after a year of the most intensive search ever mounted to detect radio signals from extraterrestrial civilizations, Astronomers from the University of California, Berkeley have picked up 164 signals out of 30 trillion recorded that, quote, bear further investigation, unquote.
This does not mean that ETs have been found, only that these anomalies have not yet been otherwise explained, unquote.
That was in June of 1993.
By the fall of 1993, just within a very short period of time, literally weeks of this announcement, Congress had cut the appropriations for that particular study program.
Right.
Right.
All right.
And then, Miss Linda, dear Linda Lennart, love your show, listen to it every week.
My question I heard that prior to the nuclear test ban treaty, a great deal of plutonium, which is extremely poisonous to life, was released into the atmosphere.
I also heard the real reason that ETs were sampling the livestock population was to monitor the plutonium level on the planet.
The idea is the plutonium falls out of the atmosphere, onto the land, is taken up into the grass, which is eaten by the cattle.
The plutonium is thus concentrated into certain organs of the animals naturally.
now what about that linda there have been variations on that theme
coming through both the abduction syndrome uh... and
even people who say that they have worked in government programs
having to do with uh... mutilations related partly to uh...
tracing something related to uh... matter
uh... atomic density uh... some kind of contamination in the environment
The problem is that after 14 years of my investigation, I have yet to see a single piece of hard evidence that anyone has ever provided, and that has included people who say that they are working from inside the government, who show me that they have any hard information about why the mutilations are happening.
Still, wouldn't it be strange, Linda, if in the end all of this circled back to your original concerns and that the ETs have concerns that were very similar to yours?
Right, it would be very ironic if in the end all of this was a viral contamination story of concern both by ETs and humans.
Yes, it would be.
Alright, first time caller line.
You're on the air with Linda Howe.
Hi, where are you calling from, please?
Illinois.
Okay.
I can't hear you here, but someone called and asked me to please call because we found something very bizarre we can't get an answer to, and hopefully one of you do.
It was a folded metal container, Army Green.
On it is printed, Ward Container, U.S.
Army, M.U.S.T.
Project, Office of the Surgeon General.
This thing is huge, and it was buried in the grass near a forest preserve, and we're wondering what in the world is this?
Yeah, farming and woods.
Lots of woods near Forest Preserve.
And it's M period, U period, S period, T period.
It's a U.S.
Army must project, Office of the Surgeon General.
What does the Surgeon General have to do with the U.S.
Army and what are these containers for?
That's a good question, and I might be able to find some answers.
Could you give me the approximate size?
Yeah, they're about 8 feet high.
If you stand it up the way the printing reads, it would be about 8 feet high, about 8 feet one direction, about 4 feet the other.
But they're folded, and they're laying in the grass.
They're not arrested yet.
How many of them are there?
Um, they're at almost all of the entrances to the forest.
Forest Preserve.
Forest Preserve.
Acres and acres and acres of land.
feel like there's a possibility they may have something to do with the structure of a gate or something that has to do
with...
That's one of the possibilities because I suppose if you put them end to end instead of making a box out of them
they could be a gate, but nearby where this place is there was a crash of one of
those mysterious little black helicopters and the local papers ran a story on it
because some passersby came upon this thing, the army was all over the place, but the pilot, they got there first,
and the pilot was thrown from it, he was Asian, he had on a black jumpsuit with a white triangle in the upper left-hand
corner.
A white triangle?
A white triangle.
He spoke no English, but he had UN papers, and they were from a company in Germany, and I can spell it for you.
It's called B-E-E-S-C-H, and the second word is M-E-R-K-A-T-O-R.
And these were his papers, and they got the papers.
Okay.
And this was in a local news store?
Yeah, they tried to run it in a local paper, and mysteriously, nobody got their papers.
Well, you know what I think?
I think we better give you Linda Howe's number.
Alright, ma'am, ma'am, ma'am, ma'am.
Do you have a pencil?
You bet.
Alright, write down this number then.
Okay to give it out, Linda?
Yes, please.
Area code 215-491.
9-8-4-0.
Read it back.
Okay, 2-1-5, 4-9-1, 9-8-4-0.
Yes.
Okay, now also there is, I don't know if you know about this group, but there's a group in Montana that's collecting all of these reports nationwide and they might have an awful lot of information for you and certainly anybody that would have information.
Correct.
air tonight in the morning if you could give me a call let's talk about this some more.
You bet and I can give you the number now if you guys want it for listeners that have
information. No that's all right we would have to check that out. Okay. Go ahead and
call Linda in the morning would you please. I will do that.
Thank you. All right thank you. Wow Linda. Yeah it's a very strange series of things
especially this story about the black helicopter crash.
If this is something that checks out, it is another indication of stories that stay bottled up in a local area.
This was Illinois.
I certainly have not heard about this.
Alright, well we'll sure find out about it.
On the wild card line, you're on the air with Linda Howell.
Hello.
Yes, this is Phoenix.
Phoenix, yes sir.
I have two questions.
Have either of you seen the movie Overlords of the UFO?
No.
Okay.
Alright, I might send that to you.
And the second question is, what is your opinion?
I've been hearing more Bible preachers saying that these things are real.
There's no doubt about it, but it's like Satan's... Yeah, they're devils, right.
Okay, sir.
Linda, it's not just the religious angle, but since we don't know what these things are, we imagine them to be everything in the world.
The religious people give a religious explanation, no surprise there.
And other people talk about other dimensions or physical visits.
Other people are talking about psychic avenues to find out what this is all about.
Until we know, we're going to continue to hear just about everything, aren't we?
Yes, and I could recommend that people who are very serious about trying to understand this issue of could we possibly be dealing with something out there, not the whole story, but something, that is, to use a quote from a communication to me, is neither neutral nor benign.
Now, there is a book called Messengers of Deception that was written by Jacques Vallée,
approximately 1980 period.
Right, right.
It is a book that I would recommend many people to reread.
I think that we are dealing with at least one aspect of the phenomenon that is using deceit and manipulation
of the human population to further its goal, whatever its goal is.
Now, if a communication is pointing in a direction suggesting that part of the phenomenon
is neither neutral or benign, That's kind of a nice way of saying that whatever its goal is may not be in the interests of humans.
The problem all of us have is that no one is providing hard proof of information from inside the government that says, this is what we're dealing with, this is what it wants, this is why it's here.
Nothing is that clear, and that's what we would all like.
It is also part of the same kind of communication It is said that there are other intelligences that are benevolent, that are in this mix, and so again, if there was one predominant theme that I think comes up over and over and over again, it is that we're not dealing with one motive or one intelligence, but we're dealing with more than one
There may be a conflict out there between something and something in which we, us, plants, animals, and humans on this earth are some issue in all this.
And that's why I think it is so important for all of us to keep paying a great deal of attention to whatever physical evidence and eyewitness testimony we can get, because this may be the only way we get any clue into whether or not we are dealing with a conflict, and if there's a conflict, what is it about, and what are the implications for us, the human race, in the future?
All right, good.
On the toll-free line, you're on the air with Linda Howe.
Hi.
Hi, Art.
This is, excuse me, this is Martin up in Anchorage, Alaska.
Hi, Martin.
We've talked lots of times.
I'm also a researcher in this subject, Linda, and I'm writing a book on extraterrestrial life, UFOs, from a theological perspective.
Right.
So, I guess it's kind of ironic I got on it this time right after that.
But you have a huge bit to chew when it comes to the theological background and the connection to this
phenomenon.
Absolutely, and I find it really fascinating, exciting, challenging, and all of those things.
I've studied theology, being one of the original hippies that got converted to a Jesus person and was what a lot of people considered a fanatic.
I do believe in Jesus Christ and I think that it's all tied in.
I believe that the book of Revelations is being revealed to us now and as it said that it would be in the last days.
I think this is all part of it.
I would like to discuss this with you off the air sometime.
I'll give you a call.
Call me or write me and I'll make a point here because our Dreamland listeners know that I played an interview excerpt, I think it was in April, in fact I know it was April, from a conversation that I did with Robert Emmenager, who was the author of UFO's Past, Present and Future in 1974, and was involved with that documentary production with Alan Sandler.
And in April, he did not qualify any, he said that our government, or representatives from our government, met with beings that had very large noses, vertical pupil eyes, meaning like a cat, with a ropey headdress rising above a domed head, holding a rod in the left hand with a coil around it, very much like our Caduceus symbol in medicine, and that they basically it boiled down to
Linda, the Sumerian gods of old came back, but they're not gods.
They're extraterrestrial humanoids from someplace else in the universe, and they've had involvement with our planet for eons.
Well that is a startling piece of information and if it's true, then our entire recorded history may eventually have
to be redesigned, defined and reconstituted in the light of the fact that there may be something else
in the universe that comes and goes on this planet and has had some direct and intimate involvement with the evolution
of the Mesopotamia area, which is now Iran, Iraq and the Middle East, and maybe the rest of this planet.
And if you start going back that far, and if the alleged Sumerian gods were not gods, but were some humanoid ET,
then, and if they've met with the representatives of our government, for heaven's sake, that alone might be a reason
why the government throws up their hands and says, oh my god, how would we tell the world this?
That's right.
We should be seeking the truth.
I think so.
As religious people, I mean, if our religion is not the truth, we certainly shouldn't pursue it.
We should pursue the truth above all things, and that's my religion.
I do believe that Jesus Christ came directly from the Supreme Being, and somehow that's all going to come together.
Alright, Sarah, thank you.
And we know this is one of the more difficult areas because everybody has personal opinions
when it comes to the isms of the world, but I want to stress that truth is truth.
No matter how long we humans cling on to we're alone in the universe or the mythology of
gods have to be something supernatural rather than extraterrestrial, that is just simply
going to keep this generation in, I think, blinders.
It is that next step that when we finally get to we're not alone in the universe, It will not be so upsetting to consider the possibility that an advanced intelligence interacted with our planet and then we may finally get on to getting to what real truths are.
All right, onward.
Wild Card Line, you're on the air with Linda Howe.
Hi.
Yes, I am, Linda.
This is Sunshine Arts.
Uh, yes.
And, uh, I had, uh, uh, an idea on about the birds, or, you know, the feather, uh, eating on, uh, uh, dead animals.
Right.
And I, I think it has everything to do, probably, with no floral blood.
Because, you know, they know there's not a natural death without blood.
It's not a natural thing.
Yeah, that, that's a good point, uh, Linda, had you considered that.
Well, yes, there's been a lot of discussions between ranchers and law enforcement and me on this issue.
And most of the people who deal with animals, they seem to say that it really has more to do with scents and smells.
At least that's their best educated guess.
Animals are very dependent on their scent.
And if something that has either an unnatural scent or the scent that they would expect to be there is not there.
For example, there are many cases where mutilations don't even have maggots on them after 5, 6, 7, 8 days.
Something has happened to preserve animals.
Not in all cases, but in some.
That must, right there, there must be a difference in the smell of such an animal compared to what a coyote or that bird would be used to setting on or eating.
And so, I would think it's in that area as much as anything.
The smell is probably different and it upsets the animal.
All right.
On the toll-free line, you're on the air with Linda Howell.
Good evening.
Yeah, Artemis.
How are you doing?
This is Tim from KST St.
Louis.
I wanted to ask your guest, Linda, I called you a few times ago but I was one that witnessed the cattle mutilations where the flies were stuck to the tree.
Right.
I called Sally Rail and she never returned any messages so I'm basically still here in limbo trying to find out if she has any explanation for this weird thing that I witnessed.
There were cases reported in Arkansas and I think one other southern state in the 70s
concerning blowflies being found on a tree near a mutilation and then in another case
the blowflies were dead on the animal.
Blowflies don't exist in the Rocky Mountain states and above certain altitudes.
You have blowflies really only in the more southern and lower altitude climes.
So where that was reported, there was never any, to my knowledge,
if there was an analysis that the government went there and secretly did something,
it has not been made public.
Well, this was about 12 years ago up in Ellsbury, Missouri, and I still have a branch of the fly.
In fact, I broke one off and kept it.
Right.
Well, if you've got something that we could get to an entomologist, if it was not too old and too dry, it's amazing what they can find out of dead insects.
I'd certainly be happy to help get that transported to someplace.
Well, I'd love to do that because, like I say, one fly still has its wings extended as if it was flying at one time.
Call me tomorrow and we'll talk about this and see what more we can do.
Well, I had another UFO guy tell me that the fact that the spaceships, before they open up, they basically do this to all the insects.
Alright, sir, again, we're out of time here, sir, so why don't you call her as she requests?
Will do.
Alright, thank you.
And let me give out that number again.
Once again, it is area code 215-491-9840.
Once again, area code 215-411-9840.
Also a good number by the way.
To order Linda Howe's documentary at $35 or A Strange Harvest 1993.
Actually, that is the documentary.
Glimpses of Other Realities at $45.
Linda Moten Howe, our guest, back right after the top of the afternoon.
From the kingdom of Nye, you're hearing Greenland with Art Bell.
He makes a, um, kind of a slam at you.
Okay.
You willing to hear it?
Sure.
Alright.
Hey, Art.
I'm sorry I've got to be so cynical.
However, I really get sick and tired of hearing someone on a show like this present these bizarre events and most of what I hear is an endless litany of their qualifications.
I think your guest's ego is so big that her perception of reality is distorted.
If she has some real evidence, let's hear it.
The evidence should stand on its own with her Uh, list of so-called, uh, without her list of so-called accomplishments.
I'm also tired of hearing nothing but a bunch of hearsay evidence from a bunch of people who want desperately to believe in any kind of conspiracy that can be imagined.
We live in a society where people butcher their own kids to the tune of 1.6 million every year.
It comes as no surprise to me that there are some sick people out there who get off on butchering animals.
Scott, KOH, Reno.
Linda?
Well, either this man was not listening in the first part of the program.
I mean, we did hear directly from a rancher who has had 11 mutilated animals.
Uh, describing his own, uh, reaction to them from the standpoint that, uh, they were not predator, so we've eliminated that.
And the idea that we would have, uh, now almost 45 some cases, that's hard evidence, it's not circumstantial, it's not speculative.
I'm working with pathologists on tissue examination where we have confirmed the tissue has been cut with high heat.
That's a hard medical science if not speculation.
That is not the work of somebody just going out in a prairie being able to take down an animal and do this.
And the caller is not addressing at all the history of phenomena that have been reported now for 30 some years worldwide.
The photographs and the bodies and the medical evidence, the necropsies, necropsies in which it's on record.
This man is apparently not reading my books or looking at the documentaries or studying the research.
He seems to be more interested in making some kind of a sweeping statement about egos, which he doesn't know anything about because anybody who would have walked in my shoes for the last 14 years we'd know how difficult this is. It is just overwhelming to
constantly be trying to deal with facts and present them to the public.
Linda, I've been doing this now for years.
Right.
And it strikes me that this man is one of those who responds to this kind of material,
no matter what kind of careful presentation is made, with anger.
Right.
And there are a certain number of people who absolutely get red-faced angry about this kind of thing.
And I'm not sure if it's a religious response or it's a fear-based response.
I'm not certain, but I know a lot of people like this, Linda.
Yes, and there was a rancher that I interviewed in my new film, Strange Harvest 93.
And he said it about as well as anybody I've ever heard.
She said people are in denial.
She said it's a coping mechanism.
If they deny it, it doesn't exist, it goes away, and they don't have to deal with it, think about it, or handle the implications.
I think this collar falls in that kind of a category, because when you do deal with the facts, and I am one of the few who is trying very hard to work with scientists and medical people, And you do find that there are physical traces and measurable differences whether you're dealing with animals or the cross circles.
We haven't even talked about the cross circles.
That's right.
for the physical impacts in some of the abduction cases, not all,
physical traces in backyards as well as cereal crop fields.
As much that is measured, is analyzed, can be picked up and handled in a lab,
and that's what I and a few others have been trying to do.
So when people get so enraged when we are talking about evidence,
it suggests to me that when you're actually facing harder facts and not speculation,
that some people become more upset because it's harder to deny.
Yeah, it also seems to me that the complaint about reciting one's qualifications Uh, if you had come on here without qualifications, he'd have been the first to raise hell about that.
Why are you putting somebody who has no qualifications?
So it's kind of an odd complaint.
On the wild card line, you're on the air with Linda Howe.
First of all, Linda, just disregard this man's facts.
This person is still asleep and he has to be awakened.
Anyhow, Linda, a couple weeks ago you brought up the Ed Walters new photos.
That's my conclusion.
Ed, obviously, has been chosen by the Greys to be their photographic agent in North America.
Why doesn't Ed go a little further and get some information what their next movie is?
I'm talking about the Greys and maybe what's geologically in with planet Earth.
I know Ed well enough to know that he himself does not understand what's going on.
He is the first to say, I don't know why this object showed up when I have my camera.
He is not claiming to have any inside knowledge, really, about whether it is grey or humanoid or anything else.
That does seem to have a timing ability to be in the right place at the right time to photograph some of these things.
That's peculiar.
Some people do.
I don't think that some of us could say that there's an intelligent...
that we have proof that an intelligence is picking out a particular person for, let's
say, photographing.
I don't think Ed would say that, but he and others have gotten some good photographs that
at least Bruce McAbee, the physicist at the Department of the Navy in Washington.
How have his latest photographs been received?
He feels that there's not a single question.
They couldn't have been hoaxed, that the object was, I believe, 60-some feet in diameter,
that it actually obscured one of the jets in the air, that from Bruce's point of view,
Ed got two photos of some kind of an anomalous silver object, at least 60-some feet in diameter,
in the air at the same place as a jet seemed to be scrambled around whatever this object
was.
And that, from Bruce's point of view, that begins to be hard evidence.
Other people could argue, well, this kind of stuff can be made on a computer.
But he had 35mm negative film that he was shooting on.
All right, back to the phones, and on the first time caller line, you're on the air with Linda Howell.
Where are you calling from, please?
I'm calling from Bellevue KVI.
My name is Martha.
Hi, Martha.
Hi, I've been trying to call about clock circles.
I understand that there was a sighting in Chehalis, and I'd like to go see it on July 12th and wanted to know if she knew anything about it, and I'd also like to ask her if Well, I'll come back to that general yes.
It's a very complicated answer about the link.
thank you uh... crop circles in your polls i guess the answer is a general
yes what about the issue of a list of circles in the well yeah i'll come back to that uh... the general yes it's
a very complicated answer about the link
but uh... jay hale i've had phone calls mail from three different people
who have called to tell me that the jay hale's formation was definitely hoaxed
one person said that they i knew who had done it it's been very controversial
uh... iris uh... who is with north american crop circle study there she
she likes as she says she likes the formation so right now the jay hale
has a big question mark around it
but uh... just recently there was another a hundred and fifty foot uh...
long formation up in winter ontario canada and i've seen uh...
drawings and i'm getting videotape of that and it appears to be more of the circle
corridor overlapping arcs bars that we've seen in england and other countries
for the last few years and while this is happening in the united states and canada
Over in England, I got a call this morning from a friend of mine, Lisa Rome, about an airplane ride that she took just this past week over wheat fields in England, in which she said there are about a dozen crop formations that resemble scorpions, beetle insects, a large eye.
It's becoming increasingly bizarre over there.
And even though people will argue, well, maybe they're all hoaxes, We know that in the past, and even this year from Canada and the United States, Drew Levengood has already found the same growth node enlargement, growth node orientation, the splitting of the growth nodes in a formation from Michigan, in another formation that came from Oregon, and so he's waiting to get plants from
You know what would be an interesting control check, Linda?
To take some samples from something that had been obviously hoaxed and then apply the same testing regime.
I've done that many times and in the hoax plants, the known hoax plants, there is none of the growth node swelling, growth node reorientation, changes in seeds, burst nodes.
It doesn't exist in the hoaxes.
Alright, good enough.
I'm glad I asked.
And one other just further point.
To date, it was about July, it was the MUFON conference and I did that interview with George Wingfield who described having talked with people off the record about seeing a silver disc over a wheat field in which a circle formed before their eyes and it looked like a fan opening up for those who heard that show.
Uh, the problem is, George has never been able to get those people on the record, and so it remains as a speculative, or at least a circumstantial report.
Uh, Colin Andrews, uh, reported in, uh, I think it was around, uh, 90, 91, that there was, um, a crew from, I think it was Canada, and they were flying over a formation near, uh, I think it was, uh, Silbury Hill, And there were something like 11 circles in a wheat field.
And that night, somewhere around midnight, the farmer saw a huge orange glowing light moving down into the wheat field.
He could see the tree line in between him and the orange light, so that the trees were silhouetted against the enormous orange light.
Um, it scared him and he didn't go into the field until the next morning after the sun was up and there was a twelfth, I believe it was, circle.
Now, again, he didn't see the orange light make the circle.
The circumstantial link is there was this strange thing in the wheat field that scared the farmer who found the circle the next morning.
And unfortunately, the link between the alleged UFO phenomenon and the crop circle has been that bad.
Kind of not really direct eyewitnesses much as circumstantial.
All right.
On the toll-free line, you're on the air with Linda Howe.
Hello.
Yeah, Mike from San Diego.
Hi, Mike.
Yeah, I'd like to know if they had any measurable electromagnetic or radiation effects from the cattle that are similar to the crop circles that I've heard about.
Oh, that is a good question, actually.
All right, Linda.
Well, let me see.
I think I understand that what you mean is with the energy, whatever it is that's interacting with the plants and causing the changes in the cell water of the plants, possibly be the same as with the animals.
That's right.
It's a very interesting question and I know that Dr. Levengood and I have talked about this concerning this Garnett, Kansas case that I discussed a couple weeks ago.
Here we've got an oval in a wheat field.
It's about one-sixth of a mile from where a heifer was found also in a kind of downed circle of grass.
And when Dr. Levengood looked at the wheat plants taken from that oval that the farmers thought might be helicopter downdraft because he had heard the sounds of a helicopter coming from the wheat field direction.
And we got the samples just to see what they would look like.
And in all of the wheat samples, Dr. Levengood found all these changes.
And his own hypothesis is that the energy, whatever it is, that's interacting,
it is not the downdraft from the helicopter.
That will not swell growth nodes and reorient growth nodes and cause changes in cell structure in the seeds.
That will not happen from helicopter downdraft.
So he has, over the past four years, taken wheat and barley and different crops
and put them in just a simple microwave oven to see if, knowing what the time exposure was, could he duplicate any
of those changes.
And when he has put plants in a microwave oven with a certain energy,
Up to approximately 29 or 30 seconds, he gets some of the changes, not all.
But the thing that is amazing to him is if they were left in the presence of that microwave any longer, the plants would be cooked.
And we've never found cooked plants.
In the cows, or the other animals, when we find the hemoglobin cooked at the excision line, It's well known, it's established, medicine is a hard science.
That's why you can have a biopsy done and a pathologist looks at tissue and knows whether it's cancerous or something else.
When Dr. Aschuler, or any pathologist, looks at this tissue under a microscope, If the hemoglobin is cooked, it's called a late blood phenomenon.
It actually has an orange color under our microscope, and it's quite distinct.
The temperature to cause that effect has to be somewhere around 300 degrees Fahrenheit.
Well, that is a different kind of interaction.
That's a searing burning of the tissue, whereas in the plants, the plants continue to grow uncooked, unaffected,
except for these strange biochemical and biophysical...
So the answer is it would appear to be a different energy.
Alright.
On the toll-free line, you're on the air with Linda Howell.
Where are you calling from, please?
Portland, yes, sir.
Have you heard about the criminals that scam wealthy or desperate people that need transplants but can't wait to go through the system?
I hear a lot of these mutilations can be attributed to this.
You know, where they show the mark, cow eyeball or liver.
And, you know, claim it comes from a poor Mexican or something.
Have you found any evidence of this kind of activity in your research?
Well, if you're suggesting that anyone could go out into pastures and take tongues, eyeballs, and genital area and ears from cows, and then end up using those parts in some kind of human surgery?
That's what he's suggesting.
I think that any transplant surgeon in the world would tell you, if we can't take the heart from one human and put it in the chest of another human without major autoimmune reactions or rejection, when they have the problems with rejection, you're not going to be able to take parts from cows and use them in humans.
Makes sense to me, too.
Wild Card Line, you're on the air with Linda Howell.
Hello.
Hello, this is Fred, Azulu, Montana.
Hi, Fred.
KLCY.
Yes, sir.
I've got two questions, actually.
I'd like to know if hypnotic regression has been used on any of the folks that have seen the silent black helicopters to see if it is a false memory.
There was one case in which I worked on this one with Bud Hopkins.
He was a farmer in the Midwest.
He was on a tractor.
He saw what he thought was a helicopter land near some hay, that he was going back to bale.
And he saw what he thought were blonde female men get out of the helicopter.
And when Bud worked with hypnosis with that farmer, When he got to that part of the scene, I remember the farmer became very, very agitated and surprised in his regression that the helicopter was actually a round silver disc and that the blond humanoids weren't blond humanoids but were some other kind of being.
That's the one case that I know where I've heard myself the regression and it involved specifically a helicopter that...
Alright, what I'm going to do is ask you both to hold on.
The caller has one more question, so hang on.
We'll be back to you in a moment.
You're listening to Greenland on the CBC Radio Network.
My guest is Linda Moulton Howe, normally featured at the beginning of each one of these programs on a weekly basis.
So stay right where you are, there is more to come.
2 FM.
Broadcast at this time.
In the kingdom of Nigh, we continue with your calls on Dreamland with Art Bell.
Call Art now, toll free at 1-800-618-8255.
1-800-618-TALK.
First time callers, area code 702-727-1222.
8255 1-800-618-TALK. First time callers, area code 702-727-1222, 702-727-1222, or the wildcard
702-727-1222.
line at area code 702-727-1295, 727-1295, in the 702 area code. Now again, here's Art
Bell.
Now again, here I am, back to Linda Howe in just a moment.
Back now to Linda Bolton Howe.
Linda?
Yeah?
We have a caller who I believe hung in there and he had one other question.
Caller, are you there?
I sure am.
Go right ahead, sir.
Last year I attended a UFO conference at which a gentleman, I believe he was from Brazil, presented what he Thought was a human mutilation case.
Yes, I'm familiar with it.
I have the photos.
The problem is, I showed that to a medical doctor and asked about the black, that there's black, it looks almost like carbon around holes that go into the flesh.
Right.
And the medical doctor said that that reminded him of napalm.
The following program has been pre-recorded for broadcast at this time.
And that napalm was used and the whole story may be something at a terrestrial level and this is my problem with it.
There is no evidence that I know of that ties that body to anything that was anomalous.
It's just a very That's a good question.
Yeah, it was pretty gross.
Are you aware of any other cases that might involve humans?
All right, thank you. We'll hold it there. Linda, that's a good question.
Yes, that question comes up.
You hear rumors, but that is the problem.
I personally feel that we don't have any evidence for any major concern in terms of human mutilation.
If there were any, they have to be so small a number that we're not aware of them, because I've never seen a coroner's report or any hard evidence, and I know other researchers who have tried, and they don't have hard evidence.
So that remains in that issue of, well, if it's happening to the cattle and the horses and stuff, it must be happening to humans.
Right.
That may not be true.
It may be that the human abduction syndrome is the other part of the interaction in which people are basically, they appear to be returned at least alive, even if there's amnesia and other traumas.
Uh, and the animals are what are handled in this other way.
All right.
Uh, wild card line, you're on the air with Linda Howell.
Hi.
Hi.
This is Darkman KVI.
Yes.
I've got a couple questions and then I'll, uh, listen up here.
How close to the Seattle area have there been reports of any kind of UFO activity?
That's my first question.
And my second question is, uh, with All the UFO activity that's been reported over, you know, countless years.
Has there been any evidence at all that there is some, maybe another race that has discovered us and maybe some rivalry between?
I realize this is kind of an outlandish question, but has there been any evidence at all of any kind of conflict?
You know what I'm saying?
Conflict you mean between those who might be here?
Correct.
Alright.
Linda, that one first.
Okay.
In 1990, a man corresponded with me to an intermediary by FedEx only.
Long story short, when after about a year of this, we finally had a meeting.
My problem is, in situations like that, people can say anything to me and they can show ID.
I still can't prove it.
But his basic contention was that he had worked inside of a very classified office on the executive branch of our government and that he was a spy on spies on spies in the SDI program.
And he asked me, based on Meetings where he had been in attendance and the discussion was some other kind of life form or intelligence involved with our planet.
He asked me if I knew what Earth's secret war was about.
And I said to him, you mean with all of your clearances and being a spy, I'm a spy, a FBI scientist, you don't know?
He said, no, I've heard it discussed, but I don't know what the issue is.
If there is a conflict between Two or more things that are non-human entities, and our government has knowledge about their conflict, that's one possibility.
It's also, part of the scenario has been suggested that we, the Earth's human government, may feel it has an ally in something out there against something else.
Yes.
So that it is a Two-way conflict between non-human entities and non-human entities with us, our government, feeling an alliance with one of the non-human entities against something else.
Now that's another possibility.
If there's anybody listening in our Dreamland audience, which is growing across the United States, who feels they have any hard information about what Earth's secret war might be, and when I say hard information, I mean people who have worked in military or intelligence, and who feel they could communicate to me in some non-public,
confidential way, I certainly would be interested in seeing what other information people
might have.
Alright, and let me add this, it's a good time.
Linda Moulton Howe, who you're listening to, has done a number of significant things that
you can get your hands on.
She's done a recent documentary, Strange Harvest 1993, which is available on videotape for
$35.
She also has a very revealing book, uh, absolutely chock-full of pictures called Glimpses of Other Realities, which is $45.
So whether you would like one of her publications or videotapes, or you would like to speak to her about an incident, uh, there are two ways.
One is to write to her at Post Office Box 538.
Huntington Valley, Pennsylvania.
That's H-U-N-T-I-N-G-D-O-N.
Valley, Pennsylvania.
zip code one nine zero zero six or call area code two one five
2-1-5-4-9-1-9-8-4-0.
Is that about right Linda?
9840 215 491 9840 is that about right Linda? That's right and I certainly
hope that some of our listeners will try to get some of these books and videos
because I've worked so hard trying to synthesize the harder data and I think
it's important for people to know it's there and can be accessed.
Alright, good.
On the wildcard line, you're on the air with Linda Howell.
Hello?
Well, no, you're not.
On the toll-free line, you're on the air with Linda Howell.
Good evening.
Yes, I'm afraid I'm going to have to shut off my radio.
Can you hold on a second?
Yes, indeed.
Remember to do that, everybody.
We have about a six-second delay system here.
Seven seconds, maybe.
And it is very confusing.
This is Carl calling from Spokane.
Yes, Carl.
And I wanted to ask Linda if she ever heard of about something that happened here in Spokane in August of 1972.
And it appeared as a huge ball of fire going across the sky.
And they said later that it was a meteor.
Did you hear anything about that?
I can't place a 1972 event in my mind right at this moment, but it does tie in with the earlier caller's first question, which we didn't really address.
With regard to UFO activity in Rainier, Seattle.
That's right.
And over the decades, going all the way back to Kenneth Arnold and those sightings over Rainier, that was certainly in that general area and since that time as recently as in
the early part of June I was speaking in Vancouver, British Columbia and there was a
radio, it was a very active talk show radio program there in Vancouver and the host of the
program had had his own sighting of odd moving lights that were forming patterns in the sky,
stopping and he was telling his story as my interviewer and then talking to me about the
incidents that they were having over Vancouver, there were other people reporting. There
were also reports down in the Tacoma area recently of people seeing something moving in the sky
that was very odd and I was very And I think that whole northwest region, I remember in my book, Glimpses of Other Realities, I show a photograph
of a cow on a farm that was outside of Seattle.
And it was a very healthy cow.
The farmer kept it close to his house, knew it was alive and well the night before and in the morning.
Found that cow, in the way we've been talking about tonight, could not believe it.
And there had also been reports of odd lights in and around his vicinity.
So, the Northwest, Seattle, Spokane, Tacoma, Vancouver, those are all areas over the last 50 years where there have been reported cycles of these strange events.
And what they mean and why there are certain parts of the country that get it more than others, I don't know.
Well, see, the thing about this is, this wasn't at night.
This was in broad daylight.
And it was a huge flaming object.
Alright, well that is in fact the way objects re-enter.
What reason do you have to believe that it was not a meteor?
Well, I was just... I didn't really.
I was just wondering if you'd heard about it.
Okay, well thank you very much.
Uh, but that sounds, uh, without, uh, additional explanation, uh, like a meteor.
It does sound like a classic meteor, especially if it was going in a straight down or angled or, uh, some of these can go at a horizontal or pure horizontal trajectory, uh, until they hit the ground.
The ones that defy explanation are especially the green fireballs that have been reported and scientifically studied that have come in and even done angular changes in the sky.
Now that's not something that a normal meteor will do.
I have seen green fireballs, Linda.
But I always attributed them to some sort of re-entering object.
But I've seen several of them in Las Vegas.
Wild Card Line, you're on the air with Linda Howe.
Yeah, this is Danny from Arizona.
Hi, Danny.
Yeah, would you do me a favor and repeat that quote by Neil Armstrong and the date that he said that?
Well, it was about two weeks ago, Danny, at the White House while they were celebrating the 25th anniversary of Apollo.
I see.
Could you repeat that?
I want to kind of write it down.
All right.
That's about three quarters of it.
All right.
It is a very short quote.
There are great ideas undiscovered.
Breakthroughs available to those who can remove one of truth's protective layers.
There are places to go beyond belief.
Neil Armstrong, just about two weeks ago, on the toll-free line, you're on the air with Linda Howell.
Hello.
Yes, let me point something out.
Earlier I didn't think that we were transplanting cow parts into people.
What I wanted to point out... Alright sir, I'm sorry, but we only allow one call per program.
First time caller line, you're on the air with Linda Howe.
Hi, this is John from Silverdale, Washington.
Yes sir.
I've got a couple questions.
The crop circles, what would somebody actually put those down there for?
And there was another question I had for you, Art, is I'm going to be moving to Boise.
Is there a station down there that picks you up?
Yes, there is, and it's KIDO in Boise, Idaho.
Okay, do you know the frequency number?
Not offhand, but when you get to Boise, you'll find it.
Okay.
All right?
Thank you.
You're right.
Yeah, KIDL is a big station.
I grew up in Boise, and I'm glad Dreamland is broadcasting there.
About his question, why would anyone put these gigantic formations in the middle of crop fields like wheat, barley, rice paddies in Japan?
Grape seed, uh, in almost every cereal crop now known, and grasses.
Well, that's what a whole bunch of people now, for it's going on 12 years, have been trying to find out, because, uh, the phenomena actually started back around 1978, in terms of circles that evolved into circles with rings, that evolved into what are called Celtic crosses, That evolved into Kelsey Crosses.
It seems to be in a corridor.
And the corridors and the Kelsey Crosses and the circles kept evolving by the year 1990 and 91, especially 89 to 90.
1990 was the year that Time Magazine, Newsweek, all of the major publications, the New York Times,
were showing dozens of these formations, some 460 feet long.
And the entire world was reporting them in 20-some countries in the year 1990.
And in the fall of 1991, for reasons that are still not clear and never have been clear,
two old men from a county in southern England were trotted out by a tabloid videotaped thing
to say that they were responsible for this phenomenon, and all of the world's mainstream media bought that and ran
with that as the story.
Now they said that they did it for fun.
But that didn't explain at all the same formations in rice paddies in Japan and Australia and the United States and Canada and France and Germany and Russia and all over.
And to date, the ones that are truly anomalous, there's never been any explanation from any place why these are there.
And for that man, it is KIDO630 on the dial in Boise.
And on the toll-free line, you're on the air with Linda Howell.
Yes, I'm calling from San Diego.
Yes, sir.
And my question is, what do you wish to accomplish through all your research?
I'd like to know the truth about what is happening with something or something, some other intelligence interacting with this planet.
I think that we all should be trying to find that out.
That's a good answer.
First time caller on the line, you're on the air with Linda Howell.
Yeah, hi Art, hi Linda.
First of all, I wanted to ask if you guys had heard anything about a book called The Gods of Eden?
Yeah, I know Bill Bramley is an attorney.
He wrote that book and it started out as a research project in his law career about why do humans fight?
Why are there so many wars?
Yeah, it seemed to me that that would be a good explanation as to why there's so much violence in this society.
As you know, in that book when he did the research He kept finding that in many wars and pivotal battles in wars, that there had been reports and that they had been logged in histories and diaries about lights in the sky, or funnels of light, all sorts of odd things.
And one of the most interesting chapters was concerning the plague in the 1300s in Europe, where one-third of the European population was wiped out.
And there were diaries, this is very well documented, and he did a great contribution to let readers know that, that there were reports, village after village, of some kind of entity in a hooded cloak that carried something that looked rod-like in the hand.
And that was always associated with a greenish mist or fog in the village the night before the morning when people began dying.
And that became the figure of death.
Most people don't realize that the figure of death, drawn as a cloaked figure with a scythe collecting souls, goes directly to the European tragedy of one-third of the population being wiped out by a plague And yet, here was this cloaked figure, the rod in the hand, green fog, green light seen in the sky, and Bill made the point in the book.
Is it possible that something has been manipulating and interacting with this planet down to the point of spreading disease in order to reduce population?
He left it as a question mark, but it certainly is an interesting one to contemplate.
We're very short on time.
Wild Card Line, you're on the air with Linda Howell.
Hi.
Yeah, Texas, Bob.
San Jose, California.
Very quickly.
Yes, Roswell was a great show this evening.
I think Linda will find the end notes very interesting if she has a chance to watch it.
I hope you all taped it.
I did tape it.
Good.
All right.
Talk to you later.
All right.
Thank you.
Maybe one more.
First time caller line on the air with Linda Howe.
Hi.
Hi.
Go ahead.
Turn your radio off.
Am I on the line now?
Turn your radio off, ma'am.
It is.
Okay, good.
Yes, you're on the air.
Go ahead.
Thank you.
Um, Linda?
Yes?
Hi.
Um, I'm so glad that I have your telephone number because I'm on a cordless phone and anything can happen.
All right, very quickly, ma'am.
Um, I'm going to be calling you tomorrow anyway about an unbelievable story, but I want to go back to 1955.
When I first saw UFOs.
All right, ma'am.
This is obviously going to take a while.
I'm sorry.
You're going to have to do it in a telephone call.
I'm terribly sorry to have to do that.
But, Linda, we're out of time.
Okay.
Well, Art, as always, it has been a pleasure to do the three-hour special.
I've enjoyed this immensely.
And we'll look forward at some point in the future doing it again.
And next week, I'll be back with a report on whatever's the latest going on somewhere.
All right, Linda, and I would ask that you hold on the line for just a moment, all right?
All right, stay right there.
I'm sorry, everyone.
We're controlled by the clock.
And we've got to go, we've got to go, and we've got to go.
So we'll do this once again next week.
Linda Howe, who is a regular reporter with us every week, will once again be back.
We'll see you then.
For everybody at the network, thank you and good night.
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