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July 17, 1994 - Art Bell
01:32:59
Dreamland with Art Bell - Robert Monroe - OBE's
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Welcome to Dreamland, a program dedicated to an examination of areas in the human experience not easily nor neatly put in a box.
Things seen at the edge of vision, awakening a part of the mind as yet not mapped, and yet things every bit as real as the air we breathe but don't see.
This is Dreamland.
Good evening, everybody.
This should be quite the program.
As promised, we will have Robert Monroe of the Monroe Institute here.
What an honor that is.
Mr. Monroe, actually Robert Monroe, just Robert Monroe.
Coming up next, he'll tell us about the Monroe Institute.
Have you ever wondered about travel?
Not the type you take on a domestic airline, but the type you might take from your own body.
Robert Monroe did.
He'll tell you about it coming up.
You're listening to Dreamland on the CBC Radio Network.
I'm Art Bell.
Well, good evening everybody.
The Monroe Institute travels from the body.
The Monroe Institute was founded by Robert Monroe, a former broadcasting executive who began to undergo spontaneous experiences in 1958 that drastically altered his life, unpredictably and without willing it.
Mr. Monroe found himself leaving his physical body via a second body to explore locales unbounded by conventional concepts of time and space.
He has documented these experiences in Journeys Out of the Body, a double-day book, in 1971, published in eight languages worldwide, and in Far Journeys, double-day, 1985.
The Monroe Institute had its origins in the Research and Development Division of Interstate Industries Incorporated, which began investigating methods and techniques of accelerated learning in the late 1950s.
That investigation led to some remarkable discoveries that dealt with the very nature of human consciousness.
As a result, the basis of the research effort was expanded considerably.
In 1971, the Institute was created to supplement that research effort.
As a school, the Monroe Institute is composed of two divisions, and we will hear from spokesmen of both.
The Education Division, which conducts classes and seminars and disseminates tapes and other materials in direct application of the methods it has developed.
And the Research Division, which conducts ongoing studies in enhancement of human consciousness and the development of methods and techniques that may result in practical use thereof.
And that is from a Monroe Institute pamphlet.
And here, all the way from Faber, Virginia, is Robert Monroe.
Mr. Monroe, welcome to the program.
It is an honor.
Well, I'm glad to be here.
Do we have more than one person on the phone line here?
Because it's very weak.
It's very weak?
Very weak, yes.
Okay, we're going to have to do that because I can't hear you.
Better now?
That's a little bit better.
Are you now the only phone line on?
Now I'm the only phone line on.
Oh, that is much, much better.
All right.
Much better.
Anyway, welcome.
It sure is an honor to have you here, Mr. Monroe.
Well, I don't know what's going to happen after all that meteor stuff.
Yes, isn't that quite the occurrence?
That was very, very interesting.
Mr. Monroe, if you would please take us all back and tell us how this began for you.
Well, it's an odd thing because it was unexpected is the better way to put it.
Back in 1956, my company was looking for some diversity type of things to do, so we I got the idea that perhaps we could in turn help people learn during sleep.
So being a specialist in sound, because of all of our company history, we in turn obviously began to use sound.
The first thing we found out in order to help people get to sleep was how to get them to sleep.
So what we did was develop some particular sound waveforms that helped people go easily into sleep.
And then we were beginning to test that after that.
I being one of the chief subjects, we started in 1956 and in 1958 I began to notice some odd effects of it.
It was a funny kind of vibration, that's what it felt like, except it wasn't a physical vibration.
I went to my favorite doctors and they said, oh no, you're fine, don't worry.
And so I finally had the courage to wait to see what this, instead of forcing myself out of this vibration, I finally said, well if it's going to kill me I'll let it kill me and I'll have to try it.
So I stayed with it and after about five minutes it faded out.
And so therefore I tolerated it when it went from, and it didn't happen every night, maybe once or twice a week or something like that.
I would wait until it completed and then after it was through or faded out, well then I'd go to sleep.
And on one fateful night in September of 1958, I was on a Friday night waiting for this to fade away so that I could go to sleep calmly.
And in the midst of that I began to think, well, tomorrow is Saturday.
Being a sailplane pilot, a member up in the New York area, I was thinking that a cold front would come through and there'd be a nice beautiful ridge lift and thermals the next day and on Saturday I'd be flying around in gliders and sailplanes.
And as I was thinking how nice that would be in the sense of soaring power that there is in a thermal in a glider, All of a sudden I felt myself bumping against something and I looked around and to my surprise I was on some type of flat surface and I said, I wonder what this is?
This is a strange kind of dream.
I'm fully conscious.
And then I looked around and I thought, well here is a strange dream.
Here is a thing that looks like a fountain coming out of the ground.
Then I suddenly realized that the part I thought was the fountain was the chandelier in the
bedroom.
So I turned with utter astonishment and rolled over and in that bumping against the ceiling
I looked down and there in the bed below, there I was in the bed below and there was
my wife lying in bed beside me.
Except as I saw it at first I didn't think that.
I didn't recognize myself because here I was bouncing against the ceiling.
So my first thought was what a dream.
I wonder who I'm dreaming is in my bed with my wife.
After a little poster look and I'm still against the ceiling I realize the man in bed with my wife was I.
I'm dying, this is the dying process and I'm not ready to die yet so I fought my way vigorously swimming down through the air as it were and somehow popped back in my body and I sat up and looked around and there's my wife soundly asleep and I looked up and there's a ceiling with a chandelier and I obviously didn't get to sleep that night.
What an incredible experience.
Now, you said that you were experimenting with some sounds or some audio in order to assist you with sleep.
Can you amplify that?
What were you doing?
This was a pattern that we had developed, but I hadn't done anything with it for over a year and nobody else had.
had anything remotely like this particular effect.
Okay, so it was not due to that and whatever was occurring to you was utterly spontaneous?
It seemed that way. In other words, we were looking for any types of possible answers
and that was when we thought, well, that would affect other people because we had about a hundred subjects that we had
used in it.
But it didn't affect anybody else, not even the semblance of it.
So anyway, the most important thing was that I was so sure that that was the beginning of a dying process and I was
terrified.
You can't imagine how terror stricken one can be or panic stricken because every time after going to the doctor and not finding still any interesting comment about it, I had great trouble of letting myself Let that happen and finding that if I released or just let go a little bit when that took place I would float out of my body and each time I thought I was dying.
So anyway, that went back into more physical exams and I finally got the courage to go to a psychiatrist friend in New York named Louis Wohlberg.
He said, well, I can tell you one thing.
I know that you're sane.
I know you too well.
Don't worry about any psychotic thing because you're not that type.
I said, well, what do I do?
He said, I don't know.
You can go into psychiatry and find it if you want.
It might take a little while.
I said, well, I'll think about it.
Ten additional episodes, something like that, I finally realized that this floating out and floating around the room was not going to kill me, because I could think a certain way and I'd get back in my physical body.
Until that moment, though, it must have been absolutely terrifying.
It was, and I couldn't get, being very much an engineering type, I couldn't find any common scientific answers for it.
The only one was dualism, psychosis and things like that.
So that was the big problem because I couldn't find an appropriate answer.
So after about the tenth time I finally realized, well this is not going to kill me.
I'm not in the death process.
Well that made something else come up entirely worse and that's curiosity.
I'm sure it did, yes.
It's not going to kill you.
What is it?
So I began to experiment with it around the room.
I found I could only go a certain distance away from my physical body if there was something holding me back.
I finally answered that because I realized what it was, the other part of the life secret
that it was.
The thing that was holding me so heavily was that I had this very strong sensual sexual
urge and I of course obviously tried to wake my wife and had no luck there.
And that was binding you?
It was keeping me close to my physical body because it was related to a physical drive.
Anyway I used the old Gene Autry principle on that finally to overcome that.
my knee to go beyond 30 feet from the body.
You probably don't know the Gene Autry technique, do you?
No sir, I don't.
You're too young.
Gene Autry had a thing where in turn he did a lot of, you know who I'm talking about.
Oh, of course.
Well he had a formula that was very, very effective for pre-puberty children who came
to see his movies on Saturday afternoon in a movie house, no TV.
To make it very short, the technique was that in the movie he would meet a girl and then
he would have his big fight with the bad guy and he would overcome the bad guy and after
he overcame him he would go to the girl and he would say, oh Gene you're so wonderful.
She would look up with perched lips at him.
Gene would look down and all the audience and he learned this, how, who can tell through
the years.
But all the girls were going, ah, and all the boys were saying, oh he ain't going to
kiss her.
So what he did learning that, he had a formula that fit his pictures.
What he did, he said to the girl, Honey, I love you and I'll get to you later, but first I want to sing you a song.
So he picked up his guitar and started singing and they rode off into the sunset and everybody was satisfied.
So my answer, finally getting down to that was an easy answer.
Fine, I'll say to this sexual drive of mine, I'll get to you later, but first I want to Yeah.
And sure enough, it worked.
So, in other words, you conquered it psychologically.
That's right.
And that released you.
That's right.
Then what?
Then began a series of experiments, and I took this research team that I had and turned them loose in trying to find information about this.
And we found quite quickly that there was what was an underground as it were and we're talking back in the 50's
or 59's which was the area where you'd find the trans people and all types of mystical
things and call it Greenland if you wanted.
Well anyway after a long period of time we found out the usual ones there and I had meetings
with them.
That was right at the beginning of parapsychology.
I went down and met with J.B.
Ryan, for example.
I don't know if you know the name or not.
No, sir.
Well, he was the leading figure in parapsychology in that era.
I don't know, about 1960, I guess.
Anyway, to make it short, I met with him and he said, on a Saturday at Duke University and he was very, he says,
it's indeed very interesting, but he says it's not my department. And I said, well, what is your department? He
says, oh, we work with cards. And I said, oh, thinking that I had a poker game the night before. And he explained how
they have subject testing, subject So I left, and as I was going out the door, this research assistant, Dr. Ryan, opened the door to get me out.
Mr. Monroe, I said, what?
or is unfamiliar with that yeah anyway uh... so i left uh... i was going out that door
uh... research assistant doctor and uh... opening door to get me out that but when i look like
you don't worry about it i think what quiet
I do it too.
And that was the first person I ever heard who had ever done anything like it.
And then following up that, mind you now the fear had faded away and I was trying to do something about it.
It was another question.
So I had another friend, a psychologist named Foster Bradshaw and I finally got the courage to talk to him about it.
And he says, oh that's nothing new.
I said, well I'm glad to hear that.
He said, it's a very easy way to handle it.
I said, what do you mean?
He said, just go over to India and live in an ashram with a guru for some time and you'll get it all fixed up in your mind.
I said, well I'm thinking about my business and my home and my wife and two children and I said, well, how long would this take?
He said, well, that's not important.
How long it takes is how long you think it takes.
He said, well, oh, maybe 10 to 15 to 20 years.
And I had my usual run with him, and I said, well, Brent, what would you do?
Knowing that he had a wife who had two grand pianos, and that's why he's an industrial psychologist in New York, maintaining things like that.
I said, what would you do, Brad?
He looked at me with this all lofty smile and said, it's not my problem, it's yours.
Yeah, nice answer.
How much experimentation had you begun to do with this?
In other words, once you realized it wasn't going to kill you, as you continued to have these experiences, what did you try to do?
Well, I tried the very simple things, obviously, at first.
I was going through the walls in the house and out and around and stretching outward
and going upward.
Obviously being a pilot in an airplane it was interesting to go up and play in the clouds.
It was because I no longer had the fear.
But I gradually began to expand it and my main key in the early era was to get stuff
I could verify such as go to some person's house and visit with them and try to make
some kind of appearance or get information and bring it back.
Were you able to do that?
Very much so and to my very pleasant surprise as a matter of fact in several cases I appeared
as a people perceived not knowing that I was there.
That's the point.
I didn't announce it.
I was going to go visit them that particular evening or whatever, but I appeared as sort of a little bit of a swirling gray mist, and that's why they saw me, not as a physical person, but as a gray mist.
Anyway, it's most important to recognize that it was fully a year of this type of experimentation before I myself was convinced of the reality of it, that it was not an hallucination or A wild dreaming state or whatever.
It took a whole year of this before I said, yes, this is real.
Did you, as time went on, were you more easily able to attain the state where you would be able to travel out of body?
Oh yes, very much.
That's what all of this was.
And then I got, as we moved into the early 60's on it, well we began to do all different types of I think so.
That's remarkable.
Mr. Monroe, hold on just a moment.
We'll be right back to you.
We're interviewing Robert Monroe of the Monroe Institute.
This is Dreamland.
Mr. Monroe, if you are there, we are now right at the top of the hour, and so we're going to pause for about five minutes and do the news and so forth and so on, and come right back.
So stay put, relax for a few minutes.
We'll be right back to you, okay?
Very good.
All right, great.
Mr. Monroe, Robert Monroe of the Monroe Institute.
Back in a moment, as we talk about states of consciousness that perhaps can be achieved by you, perhaps by everybody, if only they knew how to do it.
Talk about inexpensive travel.
This is Dreamland.
Well, we will continue with your calls or begin your calls shortly.
the world.
My guest is Robert Monroe of the Monroe Institute, and he's been describing a very early experience or a series of experiences he had with journeys out of the body.
This is really, I guess, the genesis of the Monroe Institute, internationally famed.
For what it does, and Mr. Monroe, are you there?
Oh, I think I'm here anyway.
Oh, you are, although I suppose with you one never knows for sure.
No, they know for sure.
I've gotten past that now.
Tell me, there's been a lot of scientific study, and some not so scientific, of the near-death experience.
Yes.
And you mentioned that you thought it might have been an NDE that you were having, Is there a relationship to the NDE?
Not in the sense that it's commonly been researched in recent years.
It's a different kind of thing.
We were very methodical.
You've got to understand that simultaneously with all of this, I in turn was operating a company and we moved out of the broadcasting program production and instead of going to the west coast we moved on to where we had three radio stations down in Virginia and North Carolina and we set up a facility here and began a very serious research and the first thing that we found out was that conventional science did not have any means of measuring anything like this at all.
Right.
The closest thing was the biological and electrical science and we got into those relatively early.
Going down to Virginia, then we did set up a research facility where we could indeed
see if it was possible to measure other people in similar states.
In the beginning of that, we enlisted a PhD doctor, young friend, who's been a friend
ever since back in the 60s.
We began some very serious experimentation.
A man by the name of Charlie Tart, I don't know whether you've heard of Charlie or not.
No sir.
Were you able to actually document any biological changes that occurred during this state?
We began to match them up and we found that generally speaking, we'd also develop methods
and techniques.
But we had...
An average of about 8 to 10 subjects we were using constantly in the 60s and 70s down in Virginia, in Richmond, and then in Charlottesville, incidentally.
What brought us into Charlottesville is that we got into the cable business.
Oh, yes.
Yes, I'm very familiar with it.
I guess we've been down similar roads.
My background is in cable television and broadcasting.
And you know, even then, in the whole idea we were microwaving signals in, I thought, aha, someday that's what cable's going to be.
It'll be satellite stuff.
Anyway, to make it short, there was no means of measuring other than the conventional signals, and we found one of the things, there were two states that came out biologically, and by that I mean chemically and electrically.
One of them was dreaming sleep.
And that was when one was near the physical body.
The second one was stage four sleep, which is deep sleep, delta sleep.
And that is when the major activity, and we coined the phrase and it became generic.
We didn't like to call it the old phrase of astral traveling because it had too much of a mystical flavor.
So we coined the term out of body, which has now become generic as you know.
But what we found is that the extended distance type of activity all had to do with stage 4 sleep.
If I might, Mr. Monroe, how were you actually able to document that?
If a person is there sleeping, how do you correlate the time of the adiabatic experience with a particular state of sleep?
Well, it was very simple.
In the 60s, it became a lot simpler than it might seem at first.
We took various types of body measurements, electrical measurements.
Occasionally then we got into EEG patterns but we did not have the equipment at that time to be able to do it properly.
Anyway, what we found is that when a person was in one stage of sleep, our subjects who
in turn became proficient, I might add, in performing this out of body, we took readings
on them in these activities that they were doing and matched them up with the biological
signs of these two different stages of sleep.
This is where we began to get the connection that led us to really where we are now.
But through those early periods, we did some of it.
We did it at UVA, for example, back in the early days in the 60s.
That's where we at least got the beginnings of working on an EEG pattern.
Out of that, we attracted attention from various scientific people as a result of just simply word spreading that we were looking at something from a different point of view as against a strictly mystical approach to it.
How was the conventional scientific community reacting to your work then?
They reacted with a great deal of skepticism until one and more of them began to experience the thing through the system that we were slowly, painfully developing.
It was kind of a thing of working on a means of getting past the hard rocks that I had encountered.
The first one, of course, is fear and the second one is the reality of what it is.
It doesn't take nearly so much work to have people determine the reality, and we're not talking about college students, which are often the typical subjects.
These are people that, one way or another, had heard about what we were doing and became interested in it, like physicists and psychologists, et al.
And that was the beginning, back in the sixties, and moving slowly through the sixties, we Developed means of inducing these various states and in inducing those states we got it very simple.
The first one was and we gave them labels so they would be impartial in terms of states of consciousness and the first one is very simple.
We call it mind awake and body asleep and this is what we call focus 10 and so we did establish these different types of states of consciousness that we could Induced by using these very particular sound patterns and so by the 70s we had a We had spread simply because the word would get out to among the scientific community and those who were curious or had something similar happen to them and
Uh, we're attracted to our work.
All right.
Uh, are these the sounds, uh, that are now known as the Hemi Sync Tapes?
The Hemi Sync Tapes.
In other words, Hemi Sync.
Yes.
Hemi as in hemisphere of the brain, I take it.
That's right.
And what the, uh, what these patterns we did find was that, uh, it's a special method that we didn't invent, uh, what's called a banal beat, but we did indeed Yes.
use that as a system of a means of getting these low frequency vibrational patterns into
the brain.
In other words the binaural beat puts a 100 hertz signal in one ear which you can hear
and a 104 hertz signal in the other ear and the brain has to synthesize that 4 hertz differential.
That's what a binaural beat is.
So you end up with a four hertz that the brain itself hears?
Yeah, the brain itself has to synthesize that by that synchronization of the hemispheres.
Because one signal is in one ear and the other signal is in the opposite ear.
And the net differential.
Yes.
And I said we didn't invent that.
Actual waveforms are the ones that we put together.
Okay, then is it the 4 Hz signal that the brain hears that actually enables or assists in attaining the state you're talking about?
Yeah, it's a combination.
We now use multiple combinations thereof.
But that's how we first began, by getting these very simple combination patterns going.
In terms of where that got is quite an interesting story, but I bring you up through the years to give you an idea of where we are now.
We have a 20 channel EEG system and an isolation booth where we have got a great deal of the RF out of it.
And we use that in an awful lot of research.
And I will turn you over to Skip Atwater and let him talk a little bit about All right.
I would love that.
And go right ahead.
Coming is Skip Atwater.
Are you there?
Yes.
Skip, what division do you head up for Mr. Monroe?
The research division that you mentioned earlier in your introduction.
Yes.
Fascinating stuff that you folks are doing.
What can you tell us about the present state of your research?
In other words, what all this has led to?
Yes, the present day research has really been, due to the age of computers, all the work that Mr. Monroe had done over the two decades prior to the invention of the computer world and analysis is now being validated.
He has always been a man ahead of his time, as it were, and the notions he had about What was going on are now being proven to be true by looking at the brain wave states through computerized electroencephalography, actually measuring brain waves with a brain mapping system that runs off a computer.
Not the charts and squiggly lines that we've all seen on drug commercials on TV and things like that, but actual computerized analysis of the brain wave states.
What are you actually able to chart?
This is fascinating.
What can you chart about the brain besides electrical activity?
Well, we can see how the sound patterns originally invented by Mr. Monroe affect the change in the patterns of the brain and those changes then have been identified over the years as being characteristic of states of consciousness.
So you can actually see dissociative states of consciousness and transcendent states of consciousness as they're experienced by the people reflected in their brainwave states.
Wow!
That's a significant accomplishment.
If somebody were there and we were actually observing What we do is watch an overall flowing pattern of brain waves.
at this using a computer, is it just that I'm totally lost.
In other words, getting a little bit technical with me if you can, what exactly do you look
at?
What we do is watch an overall flowing pattern of brain waves.
The brain waves are the result of electrical neuron firings in all levels of the brain
and are reflected up on the scalp as activity of the brain.
Not all things actually occur in the neocortex or that gray layer over the top of the brain.
The brain is active electrically in regions down deep inside so what you see as the pattern and activity on the top of the scalp where we put our Right, but that is in essence what an EEG does as well, is it not?
In what way does the point you've come to differ from an EEG?
Well, this is the state of the art of EEG work in terms of analysis.
It's not just the squiggly line graphs.
You can take and make a map of activity, a color topographic map like you might see a
weather map of the United States as the clouds pass over it and the weather fronts pass over
it.
You can see that same type of information passing over the scalp and over the surface
of the brain.
By analyzing those changing patterns based on known concepts of brain activity, you can
see the states of consciousness change as people move through them in response to the
hemi-synch system.
All right.
When somebody achieves this state and is in fact traveling as Mr. Monroe has, what changes
do you document?
you People usually start out with what we call the alpha state, where in the back of the head there is high amplitude alpha.
They're just laying there resting before moving into this state.
That pattern changes as they move into what the sleep researchers call stage 4 sleep, and what the consciousness researchers would call a dissociative
state of consciousness or dissociating from the physical awareness of the body.
That results in a high amplitude delta frequency happening right on the top of the head.
Wow.
All right.
That's quite incredible.
So where do you go from here in your research?
you're you're going to come to continue to try to document this
What is ahead for the Institute?
Well, the first task five years ago when all this became a feasible thing to do to actually map the activity of the brain as it responded to the stimulus of the amnesia process was to improve the tapes By measuring the population of people and then changing those patterns slightly and improving the process that Mr. Monroe had discovered some years previously.
Uh-huh.
I want to ask you a question.
Do we have more than one telephone online now?
Right now, there is.
Yes.
Could we... I'm sorry to ask, but would it be possible to have just one phone at a time online?
It's reducing the audio too far.
All right.
Hold on and I'll get off.
Well, by all means, come back.
The situation has kind of progressed from there and now we are able to record the brain
waves of people who have specific talents, talents like Mr.
Monroe's for traveling out of his body.
But included in that are other human talents like a concert pianist or an architect or a noted author or a computer programmer.
By mapping the patterns of those, we are trying to develop sounds that might be able to pass
these talents on to other people.
Wow!
Wow!
Now that's quite a line of research to be following.
How are you able to...
I'm really wandering around here because I don't know what I'm talking about.
So excuse the ignorance, but how are you able to map, for example, somebody with a great computer talent or somebody who's a concert pianist, and what differences are you able to note between that individual and anybody else?
Yes, that's ongoing research.
What we try to get them to do is to perform their talent while being mapped, while being recorded.
We would record a baseline recording when they're not performing their particular art and then make a recording while they're performing their art.
If we can get five, six, twelve pianists that can play the piano just exquisitely and we notice a commonality between that pattern that differs from the general population while they do that,
then we have identified a specific state of consciousness that would enhance being a concert
singer.
You have documented this?
In some talents, yes.
It's hard to collect data on all these things, but there are some talents that we have been
able to identify.
Are you able to see similar activity in a specific part?
Each one of our brains is not identical.
They are anatomically different as we grow from infancy through adulthood.
what the talent is?
Both according to the talent and according to the person.
Each one of our brains is not identical.
They are anatomically different as we grow from infancy through adulthood.
The folds and creases and changes in our brain are all different.
Fortunately there are some common patterns and it's ferreting out those common patterns
over hundreds and hundreds of subjects that is our task.
That's quite a task you've undertaken.
I suppose when we get to the practical applications we get into the educational division, is that correct?
That's correct.
Alright, I would like to ask that you hold on just one moment.
We'll come right back to you, and we are interviewing actually a number of individuals from the Monroe Institute.
We'll be right back.
Alright, and once again, F. Holmes Atwater, who is a researcher for the Monroe Institute, and are you there?
Yes, I'm still here.
Good.
We've got only a couple of moments before the bottom of the hour, but how much of your research now is able to be translated into educational help for people who want to know more about this?
In other words, how much of what you have done has become practical application?
Yes, that's a really good question because we want to be of practical use to people to to do work in this area and never develop any practical
application would just be fruitless.
And we have developed a lot of practical applications over the years that have proven now over three
decades to be of benefit to people.
We have a number of brochures and literature about the use of our techniques with professional
people, dentists, lawyers, therapists, educators who use the HemiSink technique in their own
professions, as well as individuals on their own personal voyages through consciousness
who look into this technique for themselves to see if it works for themselves.
So, I'm going to go ahead and close this out.
So, in other words, there is help for... there's certainly help for individuals.
Is it in the area of... Well, I'll tell you what.
We're at the bottom of the hour.
Let's hold up just a moment.
We'll come right back to you.
And this, of course, is Dreamland on the CBC Radio Network.
Journeys out of the body.
We're discussing them, and what practical implications knowledge of these things might have for all of us.
We'll be back.
Welcome back. I'm I am Art Bell.
We're interviewing Robert Monroe of the Monroe Institute and company, most recently F. Holmes Atwater, who heads the research division at the Monroe Institute.
And back now to the group.
Hello there.
Hello.
Hi.
Is this still David?
Would you like to talk to Robert again for just a minute?
Sure.
Go ahead and put him on.
Thank you, David.
Art?
Yes, sir.
I wanted to get our placement very accurate.
We were very covert up until 1969, simply for the reason that I was operating very conventional businesses and I was very concerned when Journeys Out of the Body agreed to it simply because I thought this will affect My stockholders and so on, and my company.
Yes, of course.
Interestingly enough, they didn't read those kind of books.
So there was not a problem then?
Not a problem.
It was very interesting.
We were still very private, as it were, in our work that we were doing, up until the mid-70s when Esalen, I don't know if you know about Esalen, I do, yes.
Yeah, I heard about our work and invited us to conduct a workshop up at Big Sur.
And we thought, oh, this will give us a whole bunch of new subjects to test with the material that we have.
So we agreed to it.
And we went up and did a workshop and they immediately invited us to go to San Francisco and do another one the next weekend.
And we had never thought of doing anything like that.
So we originally said, oh, we've got to give this a name.
So we called it the M5000 program.
M5000.
The reason that if we had 5,000 different subjects that we could test, we would have a wonderful base for data.
Of course.
Well, it didn't work quite like that.
But what happened was that we began to get calls from other people as a result of that about other programs, doing this program over in other ways in other places.
And I'll turn you now over to Dave Mulvey and he'll tell you exactly what happened.
All right?
All right.
Wonderful.
Thank you.
Dave Mulvey coming up.
He heads the educational portion of the Monroe Institute.
Well, not head exactly, but I am one of the trainers for the educational programs at the Institute.
Fine, David.
And now you take the science and you apply it.
How do you do that?
That's correct.
We have four basic programs.
One is a basic introductory program for people and then we have three graduate programs.
We use this HemiSync technology to give people a set of mental tools.
There's an understandable conception, perhaps a misconception out there often times, that the programs are about the out of body experience.
That's what Mr. Monroe is so well noted for.
However, the programs are much more detailed than that and much more about a personal exploration of oneself.
Why might I come to you?
What trouble might I have or symptom might I have that I might want to explore or help with all of you?
Generally, I wouldn't say that people come necessarily with problems or symptoms but more of a curiosity.
a sense of wanting to know more about themselves, about their relationship to life and the physical
side of themselves.
Of course, many people have at least an understanding or a glimmer of the non-physical side of
themselves.
So it's the curious who come here to find out more about who they are.
What we like to do is give them these tools that then they can take out and apply, not
only in terms of exploration of consciousness but also in terms of day-to-day practical
tools that they can use to enhance their memory, to keep focused in a business meeting, for
example, or to tap into a greater part of themselves for creative problem solving.
So, concentration exercises?
Yes.
We use the HemiSync signals to help people get into specific brainwave states so that they can then learn How well does it work?
It works very well.
That's based primarily on people's subjective reports, mind you.
We do get a lot of feedback from participants who come to the program.
We get letters and calls back from people who talk about how these tools enhance their lives in all kinds of ways.
Well, do people come to you for a weekend or a week or a month or how does that work?
Yes, most of our programs here in Virginia, all of our programs here in Virginia are five day to five and a half day residential programs where they come and they are here immersed in the process.
We also do weekend workshops.
We've just started doing this, weekend workshops out at various places around the country.
We've done several in Chicago.
I had a couple take place in California.
I have one coming up in August in California.
Could I give our phone number for people who might be interested in getting some more information about the program?
Yes, of course.
Our phone number here is 804-361-1252.
It's area code 804, number 361, 1252.
We have people standing by even now and also there is a message machine if they call after
office hours.
So if people are interested in getting some more literature about the programs, about
the institute, we would certainly welcome their calls.
Wonderful.
Wonderful.
Alright, well I hope you get a lot of calls.
Again, these would be people who would like to explore more of their inner self.
Is that about right?
More of their inner self, or physical self, or both?
It's both.
We also have plenty of tape exercises, cassette tapes.
All right.
I had somebody in Creswell, Oregon who had a question for Mr. Monroe, but maybe you'd be the one to answer it, though.
educational division and some of the physically related tape exercises are part of a whole
series that we call Q and Plus or H Plus for short.
Alright, I had somebody in Creswell, Oregon who had a question for Mr. Monroe but maybe
you'd be the one to answer it though.
Alright.
It is this.
Why the Focus 21 on up Hemi Sync tapes are not offered for sale in your catalog?
Okay, that's a good question and a frequently asked question.
Just to familiarize your listeners who might not be familiar with the various Focus Tapes, if I could I'd do a quick review that in our programs we start, Mr. Monroe already mentioned the Focus 10, which is a basic state we call mind awake, body asleep.
Beyond that we have a focus 12 which is the state of expanded awareness.
Once someone has learned to detune the physical senses yet maintain consciousness then they
can start expanding and experiencing beyond those physical senses.
We have another focus level called 15 which is a state of no time.
It's the label we use for that.
And then focus 21 which you call or refer to, we call a bridge to other energy systems,
to other non-physical realms where people can perhaps visit or gather information or
get in touch with larger parts of themselves or perhaps some people consider things outside
themselves.
The question was, why are the advanced tapes not available to the general public?
That's right.
Yes, and we have several reasons for that.
One of them is that we really feel like these higher focus levels, these powerful focus levels, that it's most appropriate that people listen to them in the context of programs that we offer with the support of a training staff.
It's not that we feel that people might have bad experiences, but they might have very powerful experiences that it would be helpful for them to have some counseling or the possibility to help them integrate these very powerful experiences.
Alright.
Is there anything dangerous about achieving any of these states?
Specifically dangerous?
No, nothing at all specifically dangerous about it.
We just feel that it's appropriate for them to have preparation and an understanding of what they're likely to experience in these sorts of states so that they are prepared for the sort of things they might encounter.
How do the states that you help people achieve differ in any way from traditional meditation techniques?
I'm not sure necessarily that they do.
What we have attempted to do is to give them very neutral labels like Focus 10, Focus 12, Focus 15.
We picked those numbers specifically to have no kind of loading on them.
No Lucky 7's or 13's or anything.
But numbers that would be as neutral as possible so that no matter what discipline someone comes from.
So then, David, is it the case that one might take several different roads to get to the same destination?
or yoga or whatever, that they could work within their own system and yet use this HemiSync
technology to augment their inner journey.
So then David, is it the case that one might take several different roads to get to the
same destination?
Absolutely.
And one of the things that I feel really strongly about and one of the reasons I'm very comfortable
in working with the process here is that it is that kind of neutral process where we've
literally had people from all walks of life, doctors, lawyers, engineers, scientists, we've
had priests, we've had nuns, we've had swamis and rabbis and even one fundamentalist minister
who have come through the program and felt that there is nothing within this process
that has to conflict with their belief system.
Not to say that they might not have experiences that give them something to think about, but we don't say that we have the answers.
What we feel like we are doing is providing people the tools so that they can develop their own answers.
All right.
Wonderful.
If you would put Mr. Monroe back, we'll go through some questions, and I'm sure we'll have you back on as the questions come up.
Excellent.
All right.
Mr. Monroe is coming back on in just a moment.
All right.
I will take this moment to do a quick break.
We'll be right back.
And when we come back, once again, Robert Monroe.
Back to it we are, and Robert Monroe, are you there?
Yes, I'm here.
Wonderful.
I've got a couple of questions before we open the phone lines.
Yes, indeed.
All right.
In your latest book, Ultimate Journey, you discuss the park, a place where people are sometimes taken after they die to acclimate to their new state and decide their next move.
How could one go about reaching the park on their own, either out of body or after death?
Well, let me give you, I'll make it short as much as I can.
Alright.
Our pattern has been odd, but it's standard.
Where a need among the people who know us arises, we produce something that is effective.
We have, for example, an emergency treatment thing that's used in hospitals during surgery.
Tremendously effective and right at the present time.
A major study is being done at the University of California at Davis regarding that particular thing that's been so effective for the last five years and finally it's going to get an official report on it.
That's one of the things.
We have one for stroke recovery for example and it's only because if a person needs it do we have it.
Then this pattern in Ultimate Journey, have you read it?
Yes sir.
Well good, and I don't have to go into great detail, but for the public a little bit.
Right.
One of the things that we had neglected was that we had happily, because we were operating so heavily in areas beyond physical life, we did not get to the issue of death itself particularly.
And so what happened very simply is that as In so many cases, in my own case, the need outweighs anything else.
Three years ago my wife Nancy contracted breast cancer and as a result I in my typical demand way said well let's provide a system whereby I can I would be sure that she goes to a place, if she passes on and dies, that I would be able to find her and be with her.
Item came out then that I had, as you read in the book, I discovered that all the way back in the 60's I had been escorted to a place called the park, which is a way station for people after they've died so they can cool off from the trauma, as it were, of dying.
Yes.
And figure out what they want to do next.
Yes.
Anyway, from that and researching that and also the areas of people who I knew had already died, we set up a program called Lifeline, which Dave may have described to you, but which in essence is one to in turn help get totally familiar with the process of moving from focus 23, which is right after physical death, Up to what we call Focus 27, which is this park.
We didn't invent the park.
It's been there for millennia, I found out to my great surprise.
But anyway, we've had, as of now, we've had three years, roughly 400 people have participated in this particular program, and they have made, during the program only and during the program, each of those 400 people have made five runs retrieving someone out of Focus 23 who was bewildered in shock and escorting them up to this weigh station park where they can cool off.
Each has done it five times.
How many does that make, those documented runs?
A total of 2,000.
Wow.
Big stuff.
Big stuff, yes sir.
And they do in turn, and there is a We have a postgraduate study on that going where we are verifying the data of the person who had just died and trying to get information that can be verified.
It's quite difficult because it's out of time if you understand what it means.
I do.
Somebody has been wandering around in 23 and Not knowing what to do and bewildered for maybe a hundred years.
Right, okay.
Well, that leads me to this.
You discuss the concept of time being a physical, earthly phenomenon.
Yes, that's right.
Accepted as a condition of entry.
I gather that lives, times, and events are happening simultaneously.
This is a very confusing concept.
It is indeed.
It's very, very surprising how we are locked into certain things that are Peculiar two time space and time is one of the key ones.
And when you get up into these other states of being, you got to realize that time is not, you can go backwards or go forwards.
And in your own personal life and in other lives, you are locked into, we think, 1994.
But it isn't so.
But it is not so.
It is not so.
What do you think of lucid dreaming as a springboard to having an OBE?
And also, where do dreams fit into the picture?
Do they?
Well, I'll pose the real thing that's getting more and more our theme.
And that is that lucid dreaming is the equivalent we've found out over the years.
We did that a long time ago.
is the equivalent to our Focus 15. Lucid Dreamer can evaporate the dream and there he is. He
is in the equivalent of our Focus 15 which is a nice place to play in terms of no time
because you can then move that time around in other areas.
How does he do dream things?
The one thing that we have come to, we call it a process of converting unknowns into knowns
or converting beliefs into knowns. They are not particularly important unless you can
do so. The important thing is that we have grown to know that what we are is far more
than this one single life. We are totally in a form of consciousness that is very local
as it were.
And the dreams that are interpreted as this are the means of our total self attempting to get signals down to this conscious self here.
And that's why they sometimes are very wild and sometimes they're very funny and sometimes they're just pure information.
But that seems to be the direction that we feel that humankind has to go, is to begin to get past this discriminator circuit, and that's what we are doing, and get into that knowledge of that totality of what we are, and that it's being done.
We're not the only people doing it, of course.
Mr. Monroe, you've done very important work.
It's known internationally.
I want to ask you a hard question.
Alright.
When your time comes and you pass, what will happen to the Monroe Institute and will the work continue?
That is very specifically has been set up to do that.
There's much too many people involved in it, not just here, but as you said, worldwide.
A number of illustrations, but it is being set up so that it will have a support system to continue well into the 21st century.
Well, that's wonderful to hear, and I know a lot of people have wondered about it.
If we could, Mr. Monroe, very quickly, let's try and begin to take a couple of calls here on our toll-free line.
You're on the air with Robert Monroe.
Mm-hmm.
Hello.
Hello.
Yes, sir.
Where are you calling from?
Seattle, Washington.
OK.
Do you have a question?
We don't have a lot of time here for you.
Yes, I do.
I would like to know where Mr. Monroe first learned about this technology.
OK.
We've kind of covered that, I would say.
But, Mr. Monroe, a quick answer?
Quick answer.
Where I learned about it, I found about it the hard way.
I'm the monkey that fell out of a tree, if you want to put it that way.
And I had to figure a way to get back up into the tree.
So really, through a personal experience that began all by itself, you set out on a quest to learn what was happening to you.
Exactly.
Out of necessity, as a matter of fact.
And one of the most surprising things that has indeed come up in recent years is that Back in those early days I had an exquisite amount of help and even today I cannot assure anyone exactly where that help came from.
One has to wonder, Mr. Monroe, how many people worldwide are going through exactly what you went through, perhaps without the support system that you luckily had nearby.
Mr. Monroe, we're going to break here for the news at the top of the hour and come back and open up the phone lines.
Alright.
Very good.
Robert Monroe from the Monroe Institute, a very unique opportunity to talk with a researcher who has been there.
We'll be back.
On a Sunday evening, particularly appropriate I think this evening, the name of our program
derived from its physical adjacency to that area known as Dreamland.
But with dual application in the interview of Robert Monroe, who doesn't give that many interviews, it is a great pleasure, and we are going to get phone lines open this hour and let you ask quite a few more questions.
In that hope, let me go ahead and take care of a little commercial obligation right now, and in just a moment, Robert Monroe.
Once again, Robert Monroe.
Mr. Monroe?
Yes.
Yes, sir.
Again, it sure is a pleasure to have you on here.
Well, it's fun for me because I can open up a lot of things and don't have to be nearly so formal.
But remember, radio is my old business.
Oh, it's a wonder.
I love radio.
Mr. Monroe, somebody just sent me a fax and they're asking about two things.
One, in your travels, have you Do you have any insight on two questions?
One is, have you ever met with a being, or met a being, that is not human?
Oh yes, I have.
Oh yes, you have?
Yes.
And let's put it this way, it is indeed limited.
But the thing that I discovered, not unreasonably, is that we are a curiosity to other beings.
Also, they have no particular desire to dominate us or something like that.
We're a nice experimental species, as it were, not much more than that.
That's my impression.
And the other is, do you have any better understanding, because of all this, of our Creator or a God?
I have very much that.
One of the things that I had it all the time and didn't realize it, that is that this Earth life system is a created process and a creative process.
And I can, as an engineer, go look at the leaf on a tree and see the design of it and what it's aimed to do.
And that is, as a transducer, as it were, It can withstand all sorts of winds and everything else and
when it's through for the year it drops off.
That's really a very scientific, creative thing from my point of view, but it is creative.
In working on this further, one of the things that was so utterly fascinating to me is that
there are portions of this Focus 27, this is beyond time and space, believe me, it's
the last vestige of active human thought, but there I was astounded to discover that
there is some type of energy field there that lets the human mind be a creator and create
carbon life.
I was astounded to discover that.
Moreover, part of my contract, I guess it was, for the help that I have received is
the idea that...
Thank you.
Going back and looking at the source of this creative process, and I got as far as what I called the emitter, for lack of making a common term, and the creator or creative process is behind that.
And there is an aperture through which one can go, but not until they're complete as the people waiting, or people is not quite the word, the beings waiting to go through there.
I know as I sit here, our civilization is restrained in terms of anything that's non-physical.
Yes, that's one of the things that in turn has certainly come very much to my knowing
and that is that I know as I sit here how our civilization is restrained in terms of
anything that is non-physical.
We don't know anything about it in any way, shape or form and the options that are available
to us, we are no longer physical here.
Instead of being, one of them of course is being the human addict and go back and live another life because you get addicted to being human.
But there are so many other opportunities or options along that spectrum of energy and one of them is to go and, I'll put it in the crude way, I'll try to make it in ways that we can understand it now.
Hello, this is Fitz calling.
the hands of the Creator and say, this is a great job. Not prostrating and adoration,
but just to say, you're a real smart one.
Wow. Alright, Mr. Monroe, let's go to the phones. Every one of them is locked up and
wants to talk to you.
Alright, go ahead.
Let's do it. On the wild card line, you're on the air with Robert Monroe. Good evening.
Hello, this is Fitz calling. When Shirley MacLaine's five-hour television special, Out
on a Limb, was aired way back in June of 87, some of her highlights was osteoporchectionism.
It did make a lot of waves.
Of course, her book with the same title did make the radio and television interview circuit years before that.
Many, many millions of people were exposed to the O.O.B.
subject.
Now, Robert, we need another catalyst to push that subject to the people's attention.
After all, they could join the Cosmic College for free.
Yes indeed.
We have not made a big point of being widely known yet we did a flight study to indicate
how many people, users have been used in the methods that we have available and put forth
out of demand but not out of advertising.
We figure that there have been a little over two and a half million users.
These various types of exercises on tape that we put out through the years.
These are a means of beginning to do the very things that you're talking about.
Mr. Monroe, I recall he mentioned Shirley MacLaine.
I got very amused that in Shirley's movie, I think she was the one that went into a bookstore
looking for something and right in front of her eyes was my book Far Journey.
I think it was.
It was very funny and I thought, huh.
She alluded to the possibility or claim that she had traveled toward the moon away from the Earth.
Mr. Monroe, there are limitations that we believe we face physically with travel to other planetary systems with regard to the speed of light and all the rest of it.
I'm sure you're well aware of that.
Might out-of-body experiences be a way, ultimately, To travel where otherwise we may never go.
Absolutely.
We did a great deal of that in the mid-70s.
And these were engineers and physicists principally.
And oh, we saw all the stuff on the moon before our shuttles and stuff got there.
We went out to Mars and out beyond that.
The trouble is we found that Uh, we got nervous about going beyond the solar system, knowing how we might get back, we might get lost, until we found out it was very simple.
All we had to do is to think back to our physical body, even though we may be a hundred light years away, and we'd have no problem at all getting back.
You did mean to know, and you say, well, where have you been?
Out there.
Out there.
Well, maybe NASA should be talking to the Monroe Institute.
Well, we've had some NASA people through.
Oh, you have?
Oh, yeah.
On the wildcard line, you're on the air with Robert Monroe.
Hello.
Hello.
Mr. Bell, this is Tom out of Seattle.
Yes, sir.
Oh, my gosh.
I got you.
This is incredible.
I've had out-of-body experiences, I think, starting back when I was about 13.
I thought they were nightmares and things like that.
And as I progressed in my life I remember about 17 I got more severe and then I got away from home and then in my late 20's it got extremely severe.
I didn't know it right away but I experienced that there were nightmares and something freaky and then all of a sudden I started having control over it and kind of enjoying it.
Good for you.
Good for you.
And then, all of a sudden, just like you were just saying earlier about that actress, I walked into a bookstore and lo and behold, I'd never been there before.
I didn't know what I wanted there for.
There was your book in front of my eyes.
Uh-huh.
Very good.
And I started studying it and I started practicing it.
Good for you.
And I never felt so good, spiritually or physically, after I'd go out of my body and then come back.
And then I started, over a period of time, losing the power.
I didn't know what I was doing wrong.
I just felt there was something very weird.
I was experimenting with it.
I actually did two experiments unscientifically of course.
I'm just a truck driver but it proved to other people that I actually got out of my body,
went by them and did things and could see things while I was supposedly asleep which
I wasn't.
I can tell you one that I had to do out of desperation to be sure somebody understood
it years and years ago.
I went and I pinched this woman in her side.
It left a bruise.
Oh my!
It is possible to have physical manifestations during an out-of-body experience?
What I was doing, I discovered years later, was that I was not pinching her physical body.
I was pinching this other body.
That's what left a bruise on the physical.
It was so astonishing because I didn't think I pinched her that hard at all.
It was right just above her, around her waist, up above her hips.
Very discreet of you, sir.
Yes, it was discreet.
Alright, on the wildcard line, you're on the air with Robert Monroe.
Hello.
Hi, Tom.
Let me turn down my radio.
Thank you.
Remember to do that, everybody, right away, please.
We have a delay system.
Okay.
I have a question for Robert Monroe.
Yes.
I read both of his books.
I read Journeys Out of the Body and also Far Journeys.
Mr. Munro, I have a question for you.
In your book Journeys Out of the Body you talk about this one incident where you have
the intent of visiting this one person at this house.
You give his initials as E.W.
Munro and before you do this you end up going to this garage and after that you wonder why
you ended up there instead of visiting this one person.
And later you visit this area and you find out that there were these power primaries
near the garage.
Now the thing is that you said they had a...
Fairly high voltage?
Yes.
And then in the book you say, do electric fields attract the second body and is this the medium through which it travels?
And I thought that was kind of interesting.
Well, I've just learned of course that it's not electromagnetic, that's for sure.
We've become very acutely aware of an energy field that our science knows nothing about because of a simple reason they can't measure it.
You are using this right now.
In other words, Skip was talking about brain wave patterns.
But these are generated by this other energy field.
And they're the effect.
And the causative factor is this other energy field.
And there is no relationship to the electromagnetic energy?
No.
Not as such.
All right.
We tested that very thoroughly.
On the wild card line, you're on the air with Robert Monroe.
Hello.
Yes, good evening, this is Brian from KLPE country down here in Medford.
Yes, Brian, you have a question?
Yes, I'm just curious if, he answered one of them partially, I had two of them, then you were talking about documented proof of this experience happening, and so if you have someone pinching a woman, has there been scientific studies done with that that they have documented?
And second, if you're out there somewhere and something happens to your physical body, what happens to you out there then?
Well, it depends on how much it happens.
One of the things that gets you back to your physical body, you're out having a wonderful time, doing all these things, and you get an urge, a signal to come back.
In the early times, you're concerned, oh, something's going wrong, the building's on fire where my body is, and all this kind of thing.
And you know what the most common thing that pulls you back?
It's the fact that your bladder's full.
We have those.
We don't make a consistent practice of them, but they occur quite naturally in what we do.
He also asked about documentation of physical effects.
We have those.
We don't make a consistent practice of it, but they occur quite naturally in what we
do.
And we have quite a long line of them in terms of that.
But you see, again, we're dealing with an energy that cannot be measured scientifically.
They can only measure the effects of the energy.
Do you understand the difference?
Yes, sir.
All right.
That's the problem.
All right.
Wild Card Line, you're on the air with Robert Monroe.
Hello.
Hello, Mr. Bell.
Hello, Mr. Monroe.
Hello.
You know, I think you'd probably, if I said this in the past, you'd probably think I was nuts.
No, I wouldn't.
I've had several, quite a few experiences with astral projection, in which case other people actually experience my being there.
They didn't know it was me and I never told them in advance that I was going to do what I did.
Very good.
As long as you did not tell them in advance, that's a very important key.
It was incredible when I found out later and another friend that I had told that I did this was on the phone with us.
The three of us were on the phone and it sort of unfolded.
Art had Richard Hoagland on and I asked him when he was on about The Viking Lander on Mars and how specific questions about the arm that was supposedly jammed.
Yes.
I actually had the experience that I went in 1978 to Mars and found that the arm was jammed and that I unjammed it.
Hey, that's very good.
But I haven't to this day and it seemed like Richard Hoagland came up with a very logical explanation of what happened and he explained it over the air.
So it may have just been my imagination.
But I have very real experiences with it.
Very good.
It was an incredible experience.
I can tell you the most common illustration of this other energy field of which we have a part and we manipulate a part but we don't know we're doing it.
And that is that you will maybe of an evening say, well, I ought to call Bill tonight.
And five minutes after you think of that, the phone rings and says, oh no, this is Bill.
I thought I'd just give you a ring.
And how many thousand times a day that happens in this human civilization?
Well, is that precognition, or did you cause Bill to call you?
You caused him to call.
You were thinking in his energy field and you imprinted him, and I must have had that happen Oh, at least 500 times in the last 50 years.
And in the last 50 years, how frequently have you sat down and wondered about the ethics of that?
Well, that's a good question, isn't it?
I think so.
And the other part of that question that you immediately say, well, that's one of the things, you see, that's omitted within our culture and our civilization.
And it's done a lot, lot more than we consciously think.
Makes one wonder how much action is really willful.
On the toll-free line, you're on the air with Robert Monroe.
Where are you calling from, please?
This is Dave in Spokane, Art.
Yes, hi Dave.
Again, well, I said when we were talking with Mr. Hoagland that my expertise wasn't in that area.
It was more in this area, and here we are.
It's good to know that you're not alone.
Yeah, it's good to know that I'm not a kook because I've been doing this, I'm 50 and I've been doing this since I was about 5.
And the entire gamut, I've probably got a million things I could say to you.
Well, what I would like you to do if you've gone that far, or anyone else going that far, by all means, drop us a note.
We would indeed like to hear about it.
Well, I certainly would.
And we would certainly appreciate it.
Right to our staff psychologist, Darlene Miller.
And all you have to do is route 1, Box 175, Faber, Virginia, 22938.
Box 175, Faber, Virginia 22938.
Route 1, Box 175, Faber, FAB's employee, ER, Virginia 22938.
FABER.
Faber.
Faber.
I would say Faber.
Yeah, but in Virginia they call it Faber.
Okay.
I have one question for you.
Very quickly.
Very quickly.
Have you ever been to a place where it was totally dark?
All right, and I'll hold that answer, Mr. Monroe, and we'll be right back with you.
This is Dreamland on the CBC Radio Network, half hour mark.
My guest is Robert Monroe.
There's more.
back in the 70s of that was the equivalent of that type of reading
And it was electromagnetic, but we do not perceive the aura as such.
But you can perceive, believe me, you can perceive other energies of people, but it doesn't come out as an aura, it comes out as a radiation.
And you can't see it, you feel it.
All right, sir.
On the toll-free line, you're on the air with Robert Monroe.
Good evening.
Hi, how are you doing, Art?
Fine.
Where are you, sir?
Santa Barbara, California.
Santa Barbara.
I had an experience a couple of years ago where I was sitting outside in the morning about four o'clock, wide awake, and I started going up through space, out into space, past the moon.
It was extremely exhilarating.
Yes, it is, isn't it?
Being totally free, just floating, I went out to a point where I could recognize all the stars and constellations, and I got to the point where I couldn't recognize anything, I looked back and I couldn't see our son anymore.
I kept going to a point and I really started getting frightened then.
Yes, we got into that and that's why I say we finally figured out how to cure that fear of not knowing where you are.
Right, I finally came to a planet and I was coming down to the surface of a planet and there were hundreds of people in my mind looking at different knowledge that I had, anything that I knew.
I came down to a particular place on the planet and an old man came out and he essentially
came into my mind and told all the other people to leave.
I asked him where I was and he told me where I was on this planet where humans live.
I asked him why I was there and how I got there.
He said, well, you're from a penal colony and I'll send you back.
I said, I don't know how to get back.
So he sent me back.
This took all about 15 minutes.
I was wide awake when I got back.
I was shaking.
My whole body was shaking.
I can appreciate that.
You see, that's the thing.
I went through many different phases of that type of thing.
That's why being very much too left brain perhaps, I in turn have to get these into a form where we say well first experience it and then after that get your left brain in to analyze it and control it.
Mr. Monroe, again referring for a second to the near-death experience, there are so many parallels.
There are a number of doctors now who say that the classic vision that people have, that is of a very bright light, With surrounding darkness, is merely a product of the dying synapses of the brain, that the synapses will die from the out moving inward, and that's what that white light is.
That's as good a definition as any.
What we call Focus 22 is that.
Is that tunnel.
Is that tunnel.
Yes, and this is how we commonly identify it.
I see.
Incidentally, speaking of this one time thing, I enjoy so much the name of your series, your program called Dreamland.
Yes, sir.
We better change it a little bit.
Maybe I can help you change it.
Add some nice wild stuff.
I wanted to let you know because it relates to a little bit of what we're talking about.
We have a new series for use in residences and hospitals and hospices called Going Home.
It is designed for a person with a terminal illness or injury.
We just put that out within the last two months.
What it is, it's designed to help not only that terminal subject decide what to go, where
to go after he or she dies and what to do by giving them a guided tour, as it were,
and then giving them the option to do whatever they want to do.
Most importantly, that's half of this series.
The other half of that series is for the support group, the family, friends, loved ones and
the caregivers so that they need the help to understand this too.
It's got the support of psychologists and caregivers all over the United States and
Would you say that somebody who knows roughly that they are going to die, that they are going to pass on, is a fortunate person?
Would that be a fortunate person, or would it be better not to know?
Oh, I very much believe, and believe is not enough, I should put it in a no category, that we should have a choice in dying.
Absolutely.
We have discovered them already through the research that we did for this new thing.
Many, many people have a death wish.
You can't stop that death wish.
They'll get a stroke and then they'll get cancer or whatever it is.
That reason for that can't be detected.
I had a very dear friend who did exactly that.
got the process underway and they don't know this until you, some do but they don't really
consciously know it.
It's because they've completed what they came to do.
Having completed it there's no sense in hanging around and it's that simple.
I had a very dear friend who did exactly that and no one knew why he would have a stroke
and then after that was taken care of pretty well and he then developed abdominal cancer
and until I met him after he died I didn't see any reason why it was but he had done
what he had done.
He was ready.
He was ready and there's no sense in hanging around.
His grandchildren are all fine, everything is in good shape and whatever and he completed
what he wanted to do.
And so he just simply died.
You can't stop a person in that case, don't you think?
Yes, sir, I do.
You can put him on life support or whatever and keep his body working, but he's gone.
All right.
On the toll-free line, you're on the air with Robert Monroe.
Hi there.
Hi.
Where are you, sir?
I'm from Phoenix.
Phoenix.
This is Henry.
Hi, Henry.
This is fantastic.
I wanted to ask a question about the The vibration you felt, sir, originally, is that like an inner electrical, like a finer electrical feeling than you would get from a household current?
Is it something like that, and quite exhilarating?
It felt that way to me initially, and I had long since discovered that it was not electrical at all.
Because I even had a test at that time to see what it was, and it was not even showing us a mechanical vibration, neither that, nor an electrical one.
So what else was it?
You see, our science could not measure it.
So Mr. Monroe, you would tell people, do not fear death?
Absolutely.
I think that's the point.
It's a terrible thing to fear it that much.
Because when you're ready, and it may well be, That's what we do with our going home.
We help people become aware of the opportunities that exist beyond physical death.
Mr. Monroe, will we ever come to a full understanding of the process of life and process of death?
Are we ever meant to know, do you think?
Absolutely.
The point is, you see, you are growing a new personality and there is this discriminated circuit that holds all this back.
Yes, sir, I do.
Mr. Monroe, we're out of time.
I want to give your phone number.
I know there's a million people.
The lines are still clogged.
They have questions.
thirdly easy that's what your dreamland is don't you think yes sir i do
and uh... mister monroe where we're out of time i want to give your phone number
i know there's a million people the lines are still clogged they have
questions uh... it's area code eight oh four
three six one one two
five two Yes, and they can call that during the day tomorrow, also.
Okay.
Or all during the week, as far as that's concerned.
One more time, sir.
Give us your address, please.
I'll make it real simple.
The Monroe Institute, Faber, Virginia.
Yes, like the pencil, you know.
F-A-B-E-R, Virginia, 22938.
give you two two nine three eight. Sir? Two two nine three nine seven four nine. All right,
It has been a pleasure having you on the program.
I would love to do it again sometime, but we're just out of time and I've got to go.
It did get going, didn't it?
Oh, it did get going, didn't it?
Mr. Monroe, thank you.
My pleasure.
Take care.
Robert Monroe of the Monroe Institute.
To order copies of this program or any other Dreamland program, area code 503-664-7966.
It has been a pleasure.
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