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March 12, 1994 - Art Bell

02:34:03

Coast to Coast AM with Art Bell - The Philadelphia Experiment - Al Bielek

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al bielek

01:40:41

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Speaker	Time	Text
unidentified		♪♪ ♪♪
		From the kingdom of Nye, you're hearing Coast to Coast AM with Art Bell on the CBC Radio Network.
		you you
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Good morning, everybody.
		Welcome into, or back into, Coast to Coast AM.
		From the Kingdom of Nye, the high desert, and the great American Southwest, this is what you've been waiting for.
		Had to track him down all the way back east All the way to Atlanta, Georgia.
		A man who had been in Arizona and moved back east.
		A man whose name is Al Belick.
		A man who says he was part of the Philadelphia Experiment.
		And there's been a movie about it.
		There's been articles written about it.
		People have talked about it for years.
		It was an effort to make a ship, the USS Eldridge, invisible.
		An experiment that went tragically wrong.
		And there's a lot more to it than just that.
		There are many details.
		And here's the man with them.
		All the way back to Atlanta, Georgia now.
		And I hope, if everything's right, Al Bielek.
		Al, good morning.
		Good morning.
		Glad to have you on the program again, Al.
		What in the world, just to start out with, took you all the way back to Atlanta, Georgia?
unidentified		Well, a number of things.
al bielek ▲ ● ▼		I had to leave the house where I was because the owner was making major changes to the house and there was no longer going to be a bedroom for me, so I had to leave.
al bielek ▲ ● ▼		I had friends back here in Atlanta and other things already cooking, which made it fairly logical for me to come to Atlanta, so here I am.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		This is going to take a lot of preparation, I guess, in the way of getting started.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		But you were involved in the Philadelphia Experiment, and I guess people need to find out at the start of the program here a little bit about Al Belick, who you are, who you were then, and how you got involved in all that.
unidentified		Okay.
al bielek ▲ ● ▼		Legally, my name is Al Belick, and my birth certificate says I was born on the 31st of March, 1927, which of course for many years I accepted as the gospel truth until various events occurred.
		Starting in 1986 and then culminating in 1988 with my recollection of the fact that I was involved with the Philadelphia Experiment.
		And simultaneously, my name was not Al Belick, but Edward Cameron.
		And that's a long story as to how that changed.
		I was originally and actually born on the 4th of August 1916 as Edward Cameron, son of Alexander Duncan Cameron, Sr., and his then live-in wife, Well, he later left and he was a Navy man himself at that time.
		He had been in the Navy since, we assume, sometime around 1910, because all of those records had disappeared and he had not been able to find any of them, either when he went in the Navy or when he left, though we do know when he left the Navy, which was December 31st, 1939.
		He had a medical condition and he was given a medical outage and a pension.
		My father was a Navy man for many years.
		We don't know too much about what he did in the Navy.
		We have one picture of him taken in 1917, showing him in his first-class petty officer's uniform.
		Beyond that, we have no records of anything of what he did in the Navy.
		He turns up again in 1941 in the Coast Guard, but as a volunteer officer in World War II.
		That's part of the story of the Philadelphia Experiment.
		I was born in 1916.
		I have a half-brother named Duncan Cameron.
		He was born in 1917, May as I remember.
		And I might add, all of the records for both of us in that period have disappeared.
		Very nicely exhumed and erased by various government services who are specially appointed for those tasks.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So they have literally erased your identity?
al bielek ▲ ● ▼		Totally, as Edward Cameron and as the original Duncan Cameron also.
		The whole history of that is gone.
		I've gone to the lengths of going to try to trace birth certificates under my original name.
		I got no response even from the state of New York after nine months.
		And the only one who knows anything at all about the earlier family history is a historian, a family, actually a town historian.
		Bayshore, Long Island, who I finally was able to track down, this was well over a year ago.
		He knew a great deal about the early family history of it.
		No place in that record does anything show up about Duncan Cameron or Edward Cameron
		having been born in 1916 and 1917.
		Yet as a virtually complete history of father, he knew that he had been involved in the Navy.
		He knew he would get out on December 31, 1929 and the reasons.
		a lot of pictures of Father during that period.
		racing saloops on the Long Island Regatta through the period of the 30's.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		How did you first find out, Al, that you were not the person you thought you were?
al bielek ▲ ● ▼		That came to me as rather a shock when in January of 1988, one Saturday night, I was
		watching television very late at night on HBO and I was about to retire at four AM.
		in the morning when I came on and said the next feature of the evening will be the Philadelphia Experiment.
		Well, I missed it when the movie went around.
		It stayed on the circuit for about two weeks, which isn't very long, in August of 1984.
		And I did not know of the video.
		I had a great interest in the subject because for years I've been researching the subject of the Philadelphia Experiment.
		It had a great fascination for me.
		I even helped research the subject with Ivan T. Sanderson when he was still alive.
		And I was hot-stepped to see it.
		So I did.
		And within the first 15 minutes, it hit me like an atom bomb, and I realized I was involved in that in some way.
		And it took a while for it to filter down past the box, the metal box which was installed.
		That had been years ago.
		And that's part of the long story.
		Any case, at that point I knew I was involved with it, and it took some time for it to filter down as to which of the two principal characters I was.
		The better looking one turned out to be my brother, Duncan, who was the head of role model for him, and he was really well played by Michael Paret, and was a fairly good look-alike for my brother.
		Myself, the person that played that part, was not well played in terms of being a physical look-alike, but nonetheless the part portrayal was accurate.
		I had a pregnant girlfriend at that time, whom I later married.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So you're saying most aspects of the movie, the Philadelphia Experiment, were accurate?
al bielek ▲ ● ▼		Up through the first 15 minutes.
		Where it deviated from the actual facts was after we returned.
		Actually, did not return.
		We went to Montauk, Long Island.
		In the movie, they showed it as being out in Wendover, Utah, at the old Wendover Air Force Base, where they arrived.
		And a helicopter blew up.
		It was a helicopter, but it didn't blow up.
		And the fence was destroyed and we walked through it and wandered off for the rest of the story of the Vladov experiment as portrayed in the movie.
		That part is not factual.
		The fact was that we arrived there and stayed inside the fence and were grabbed by MPs immediately, not three days or four days or a week later.
		In any case, that part awakened my dormant memories And after a lot of further memory searching and memory scumming up and a lot of further research, I've been able to put together most of the story.
		Most of it is from memory.
		Some of it is from contact with other people who remember me from that period.
		And that includes both my one formal naval officer, who's still alive, one of the few that is still alive.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I was about to ask, Al, when you die, who's going to be left, if anybody, Uh, if it were to occur today, who would tell the story as you're able to tell it?
al bielek ▲ ● ▼		The only one who would know any part of the story today would be one retired, uh, naval officer living in New York City.
		And, uh, my brother, Duncan, the younger brother, who remembers a good part of the story of having been resurrected under hypnosis.
		And, uh, he is not one, however, to go around the circuit doing a lecturing.
		He prefers to be somewhat retiring and makes little effort not doing any lectures.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		He's been at one or two with me, but... Okay, what about the retired naval officer in New York?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Has he been on the circuit talking about this at all?
al bielek ▲ ● ▼		He has not.
		He is not reluctant to tell a story if somebody asks, but I am a person by the name of Preston Nichols, the only one who's ever asked.
		And how I came to know of his involvement with it was the fact that Preston Nichols knew him, and one time, this was back in 1988, the subject matter came up at the Philadelphia Experiment Act.
		It was 1989, January, February.
		And he says, oh, I know all about it.
		He says, oh, tell me.
		He says, I was there.
		And Preston says, I've got to get you on the phone with somebody.
		So we arranged a conference call, and I was back in 1989, and he says, I'm introducing you to this gentleman who says that Do you remember me by any chance?
		So I'll talk to him and remain on the line.
		Yes.
		We talked for 10 or 15 minutes and finally this gentleman, whose name I don't want to
		use in the air without his permission, says to me, he says, keep talking.
		And I did and he says, okay.
		So I finally asked him, he says, do you remember me by any chance?
		He says, yes.
		He says, I recognize your voice.
		I had not met this man personally at that time.
		And I said, do you remember my voice?
		He said, yes.
		I said, is it part of the Philadelphia Experiment?
		He said, yes.
		I said, is it under the name of Al Belick?
		He said, absolutely not.
		I said, well, what name do you remember me as?
		He said, well, you're asking me about 45 years of history.
		He did, and he came up with the name Edward Cameron.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, bang!
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So there you go.
al bielek ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, this was on the phone without meeting me face to face, based on my voice only.
		Well, that was rather phenomenal in itself.
		I've since met other people who are technically involved with the experiment in one phase or another who remember the whole thing.
		They knew I was there.
		They knew many aspects of it in terms of the technical expertise required to produce the equipment for the experiment and what was theoretically behind it.
		Two of the people involved, one was on staff at the Institute of Advanced Study and has since died, and the other one fairly recently, last May, There's a naval officer who knew all about it, but he died in a nursing home.
		I did not ever get to see him.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Boy.
		All right, Al.
		I'm going to ask you to hold on for a second, and we're going to start the story from the beginning here in just a moment.
		So stand by, Al Belick.
		and we are speaking with albeit who sounds as though he may be the last of
		those tell the story of the philadelphia experiment the story
		you're about to hear and now back all the way to atlanta georgia
		and uh... and i'll be looking Hold on, let me move you once again, Al.
		Let me move you over here.
		Al Belick, all the way from Atlanta.
		Al, are you still there?
al bielek ▲ ● ▼		Yes, I'm here.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Good.
		All right.
		Now, the Philadelphia Experiment itself.
		You were in the Navy, and how in the world did you get involved in this, and what was it?
al bielek ▲ ● ▼		Well, it's a very long story, and let's begin really at the beginning of this, technically.
		The Kolodov experiment didn't begin with that name.
		It began as a research project entitled Project Invisibility, and was a private research project undertaken initially by Nikola Tesla, a Dr. John Hutchinson, who was then Dean of the University of Chicago, and a staff physicist, Dr. Emil Kurtenauer.
		And this was in the year 1931.
		1931 and the long history of Tesla of course is a very long story to tell in itself but
		briefly he had been involved of course in many years of research himself and his history
		is available from other sources. He had this idea and these three came together in Chicago
		the idea of having an object invisible. There had been a lot of popular press representation
		of that idea at that time making objects invisible but for whatever reason these three men came
		together with the paper study in essence. How can you do it?
		Well they didn't achieve much of anything at that time.
		In 1934, the project, even though it had been funded at the beginning with some naval research money from the Office of Naval Engineering, as it was then called, changed its name to the Office of Naval Research in 1946.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		By the way, Al, is there any documentation of that from the Navy, or is that still secret?
al bielek ▲ ● ▼		They still classify it as secret.
		There's no information available from the Navy.
		They denied that the state of the project ever happened.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		But they were trying.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		They were researching it and spending money on it.
al bielek ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
		Now, in 1933, one of the things that happened, of course, was Franklin Delano Roosevelt was elected 32nd President of the United States.
		And he already knew Tesla from 1917, because in the period of World War I, when we became involved, he was undersecretary of the Navy.
		That is, Roosevelt.
		And he invited Tesla to Washington and asked him to do some work for the Navy Department.
		the government to advance the progress of the war and Tesla readily agreed.
		So the two were friends from that period of 1917.
		Roosevelt becomes president in 1933 and invites Tesla to Washington and exchanged memennies
		and basically asks him, would you like to be director of the project you are working
		on?
		He says, that's fine with me.
		So Roosevelt became the director of the project.
		By 1934 it was transferred out of Chicago to the Institute of Advanced Study in Princeton,
		New Jersey, which was rather newly formed.
		It had been brought together and became active in 1933 with four initial staff members.
		Those four initial members were Albert Einstein, Dr. John von Neumann, Dr. Alexander and Dr. Roswell Veblen.
		They were the four original staff members.
		Many more came later.
		In those days, the Institute was the premier think tank of the world, and they did a lot of very, very original research.
		The project was transferred there in 1934, and they continued working on it and built some hardware with the first initial test in 1936.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		What avenue, technically, were they following then, Al?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		They were charged with making an object invisible.
al bielek ▲ ● ▼		The avenue that they were following, technically, was they were looking at The whole structure, the matrix of space-time, and can you manipulate an object in terms of its time location or its time phase in our reality to the point where it fades from sight?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It's a basic approach.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And literally then goes to another time or dimension or whatever?
al bielek ▲ ● ▼		Not totally.
		You see, it could go, if you put the right hardware, it could go to another time, which would be time travel.
		They didn't want time travel, they wanted invisibility, which required You might say a phasing out of the visible region of reality while it's still physically, it was here.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So then the object actually did not leave this time.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It just began the transition that would be time travel if you continued.
al bielek ▲ ● ▼		Correct.
		That was the approach at that time.
		And the mathematics that supported it were very involved and involved earlier work that had been done by many people.
		I won't go into the history of it, but one of the The principles that set up the math was Dr. David Hilbert from Germany, who was famous for his multiple space, multiple reality mathematics.
		And Dr. John von Neumann, who himself was a premier mathematician in many respects.
		I think he was ahead of Einstein because he could build hardware.
		Einstein didn't know what transistor or tube from a screwdriver.
		He was an excellent theoretician, but he knew nothing of practical matters in terms of designing equipment.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, not hands-on.
al bielek ▲ ● ▼		Right.
		Neumann was hands-on, which was a rare thing for a mathematician.
		He had a Ph.D.
		in math from 1926 in Europe, and came to the U.S.
		in 1930, taught at Princeton for three years as an adjunct professor in the graduate school, and then was invited to join the staff in 1933 along with the other three I named.
		Einstein, just out of curiosity, also left Germany in 1930, but he did not go directly to the Institute.
		He went actually to Caltech and taught there for a number of years, three years, and was in Pasadena, California.
		There's a long story how he got out of Germany.
		He was smuggled out by friends.
		The National Socialist Party did not want him to leave.
		They considered him a national asset.
		But after three years in the West Coast, he was invited to join the Institute in 1933, and he did.
		He was there until his death in 1955.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So you had some of the best minds in the world at that time working on the project.
al bielek ▲ ● ▼		That is correct.
		And the Institute was renowned then for being a think tank.
		It is no longer.
		It is, uh... Well, we'll go into what it does now.
		It's still there.
		It still exists.
		But it is not doing the same kind of work.
		It did many research projects at that time, privately funded.
		An invisibility study It was supported by Navy grants and research money, but it was a private research project and was not classified at that time.
		In 1936 they had their first hardware test, which was partly successful, which was enough indication that they were getting results to continue their research in that direction.
		They continued with this until 1940 when they had a fully successful test at the Brooklyn Navy Yard with a small tender.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, I assume before they tested on a ship that they were testing on smaller objects in a lab environment, is that correct?
al bielek ▲ ● ▼		That was correct.
		They were starting to get results.
		They built an equipment sufficiently large to attempt to make a ship tender approximately 250 tons invisible.
		Well, they put the critical equipment on board the deck of that ship, and they had other heavy equipment, which is on two other ships adjacent, one starboard, one port.
		No one was on board the test vehicle, and they ran the equipment that was on board that ship on long cables, because they didn't really know for sure what would happen.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, Al.
		Again, I've got to ask you to pause, and I'll reset you right after this break, all right?
		All right.
		Stand by.
		You're listening to Coast to Coast AM on the CBC Radio Network.
		I'm Art Bell.
		My guest is Al Belick and there's more coming up in just a moment
unidentified		Music playing...
		You're listening to the CBC Radio Network.
		We own the night.
		And now, for the best in live two-way talk radio, here's your host, Art Bell.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
		Back to it.
		Al Belick is our guest subject, the Philadelphia Experiment subject of the movie, Folks.
		And here's a man who was really there, and he's going to tell you that story.
		His name is Al Belick.
		Back now to Mr. Belick in Atlanta, Georgia.
		Hi, Al.
		You're back on the air again.
		Yes.
		All right.
		Again, taking you back a little bit, before we get to the ships, they were experimenting on smaller objects.
		Can you give me any technical details on what process they were using and how far they actually got in the lab?
al bielek ▲ ● ▼		Well, I can't tell you much about how far they got in the lab, because I was not part of the project until 1940.
		Actually, January 1940, along with my brother.
		Before the Brooklyn Navy Yard Test.
		Now, to give you a brief rundown of the technical aspects of this, one has to understand that, first of all, we are not living in a three-dimensional universe, or even a four-dimensional, it's five-dimensional.
		The man who first technically explored this possibility was a man by the name of P.D.
		Ispensky, a Russian mathematician who wrote a book In 1931, entitled, Tertium Organum, which in English is a new model of the universe, and he described in there the fact that we are in a five-dimensional universe structure.
		Fourth dimension, of course, has been well defined as time, but it took Einstein with unified field theory and others examining this to understand that the fifth dimension is also time, but it is the next up vector, if you will, the next higher order.
		It's called T2 in mathematical notation, which is the vector which controls T1 or the flow rate of time as we measure it with a clock.
		And T2 describes, speaking again mathematically, a helix, a corkscrew through time, if you will.
		The forward motion is the rate which we measure as time in the T1 mode or the clock, if you will.
		But by manipulating the corkscrew, the rate at which that second vector at right angles to the first one of time moves, you control the rate of flow of time.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, Al, I've got to stop you, because I understand, I think I can understand, the flow of time, or what you're calling T1, or what we see go by on the clock every day.
		That I can understand.
		Laid out like a long carpet, running endlessly into our future.
		That I understand.
		The second T2 effect on T1, I don't yet understand.
al bielek ▲ ● ▼		Okay, well let me give you another analogy, a model.
al bielek ▲ ● ▼		You've seen, I'm sure, these kids' toys, the long coiled spring, where you hold one end and you can jog at one end and you see this motion, this wave through the coil as it goes to the other end and bounces back.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You're talking about a slinky?
al bielek ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, sure.
		Well, if you take this thing and close it in a loop like a donut, which is what Einstein said, we are living in a closed universe, everything is in a circle, including time, then you have a little bit of an idea of what we were dealing with.
		It's like a sleazy, except what we were doing, or attempting to do, and eventually did succeed in doing, was to enter this thing at some point along the edge of what we call our reality and create an artificial field.
		Which would affect, within that field only, the flow rate of time by affecting T2, you affect T1, and you can then affect the position where that object, in this case a ship, was on the edge of the coil of time, as we call it.
		I'm speaking mathematically, of course.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, I think I've almost got this.
unidentified		Okay.
al bielek ▲ ● ▼		Now, what they were doing was, by very complex fields, Affecting the time flow rate, and if you start to move the object around the edge, it starts to go out of our reality into the next one.
al bielek ▲ ● ▼		You have to also understand that there are multiple realities involved in our universe, and they're all interrelated, but they're interrelated by being phased out of our reference, phased out in time by at least 90 degrees into another reality.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
		Al, would that be, again, staying with the analogy of the slinky, then?
		Would that be, instead of traveling along the surface of the slinky and going around and around and around and around, it is as though you're jumping from one link to the other link directly without traveling the entire path, is that... That is correct.
		Alright.
al bielek ▲ ● ▼		Now that, you can again look at that in terms of another analogy, quantum physics, which in the modern analysis, using quanta, It's not only a quanta of energy and quanta of matter, it's a quanta of time, according to that theory.
		And it is in a discrete little jump, as it were, which fits quite well with the Sleazy model.
		What we were attempting to do, and did eventually do, was to take an object, create a field around it, and move it in relation to the reality which we normally exist in, move it part way out.
		And if you get far enough along that edge, the Sleazy, so to speak, What happens is the electromagnetic energy called light and also radio waves, particularly the higher frequencies that we use for radar, no longer are reflected by the object.
		And if they pass straight through it or around it, you can do it either way.
		There's no energy reflected.
		The object is invisible because it requires a return of some kind of energy so that you know that the object is there.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		But not invisible necessarily at that point to the eye?
al bielek ▲ ● ▼		Yes, invisible to the eye also.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, okay, so gone, gone.
al bielek ▲ ● ▼		Gone, gone, so far as you can see.
		And that was what they did in 1940 at the Brooklyn Navy Yard.
		They made the object invisible to the eye, to a camera, and also, at that time, it would have been invisible to radar, but radar was not a major development yet in 1940, even though the Navy had been working on radar systems since 1938, and had some onboard ship, experimental, by 1943, of course, radar.
		It was well-developed.
		We had excellent radar.
		The Germans did.
		The Russians did.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Right.
al bielek ▲ ● ▼		And so forth.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
		Again, what I want to understand is technically how this is done.
		In other words, what actual process do you use on an object?
al bielek ▲ ● ▼		All right.
		The basic theory which was developed at that time, partly in accordance with Einstein's Unified Field Theory, which does exist and is alive and well, and is never in the status of being incomplete, It was stated that way to the public and was completed about 1938 and given to the government and we had access to it at the institute.
		All of that says, to make it simple, or try to make it simple, is that all of the elements of our universe, the energies which we normally consider the electric field, the magnetic field, the gravitic field, if you will, which it is a field, Or all interrelated in such a manner that you have a fourth element which is also locked into them, and that is time.
		If you manipulate any three of those, you can affect the fourth.
		In this case, the one we wanted to affect was time.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Right.
al bielek ▲ ● ▼		So if you know how to interact between the electric field, the magnetic field, and the gravitic field, you can affect time.
al bielek ▲ ● ▼		And that, of course, refers to a limited area in which you can affect those three fields.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Through what means?
al bielek ▲ ● ▼		Electrum.
		Basically, electromagnetic manipulations.
		In terms, also, of certain mathematical constants which relate to the Earth's constants.
		And one of the main constants here on Earth which is used to generate and to predict window frequencies for certain phenomena is the mathematical function of pi over two.
		That is one of the keys.
		One-half pi, if you will.
		and multiples thereof i won't go into that as a long mathematical
		dissertation but basically any frequency involved which is prior to his
		active in a special sense what they were doing was generating electric field through
		means of a radio transmitter
		which generates an enormous electric appeal from an antenna depending on the
art bell ▲ ● ▼		power level well in our field you know it would get
art bell ▲ ● ▼		in our appeal basically do you know it and do you know what your yellow gal at what frequency was this
al bielek ▲ ● ▼		radio uh... radio frequency radio frequency was operating basically a hundred
		sixty megahertz but was modulated
		and the earlier system developed by tesla for the first test was a what they
		call an analog system fully on but modulated with special frequencies
		But it had more than a RF field or electric field component.
		It also had magnetic fields where you had a rotating magnetic field as well as a rotating electric field.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, you're ahead of me a little bit.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		160 megahertz, that's typically where the police and the fire departments are very close to where they operate.
al bielek ▲ ● ▼		Today.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Today, that's right.
al bielek ▲ ● ▼		Back in 1942, 43.
		That was a high frequency.
		That was the cutting edge of technology.
		Absolutely.
		That was the frequency the radar systems operated at in those days.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
		I think that's right.
		As a matter of fact, it's right.
		And then they moved up into the 400 megahertz.
al bielek ▲ ● ▼		That's right, after the war.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, so you've got radio frequency at 160 megahertz.
		Do you know what mode of transmission it was?
		AM, FM, pulse?
al bielek ▲ ● ▼		There was AM in the first system, pulse in the second system, developed by John Van Nooyen.
		I'll have to go into the history of how that came about.
		In any case, we were using AM with four levels of modulation.
		And it was a quadraphase transmission system, i.e.
		there were four antennas designed so that they would produce a rotating field with four lobes.
		And they rotated counterclockwise, and there was a special modulation on it.
		And the initial system was four transmitters at 500 kW each.
unidentified		500 kW?
al bielek ▲ ● ▼		500,000 watts?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		five hundred uh... catering five hundred thousand watts
al bielek ▲ ● ▼		wow that is not for the initial test in nineteen forty but for
al bielek ▲ ● ▼		the what was designed for the overage
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's a lot of power.
al bielek ▲ ● ▼		That's a lot of power.
		And you had four coils on the deck of the ship, which were specially designed Tesla coils, designed by Tesla, a primary only, which was a conical shape.
		It was narrow at the top and much broader at the base.
		It was hollow copper tubing, water-cooled, has about an inch and a half in diameter, and it was pumped from both, direct connected to the generators.
		Which were a low deck.
		And there were two major generators, 75 kVA each.
		And there were four outputs, two from each generator.
		They had to be very carefully phased also to produce a rotating magnetic field.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Alright, so these were producing the magnetic element?
al bielek ▲ ● ▼		That is correct.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Four of them?
al bielek ▲ ● ▼		Correct.
		Now the two of those interacting together at a certain rate and ratio will affect the
		gravitic field, particularly if you have enough power, and that's one of the reasons they
		wanted enough power for this.
		The mathematics of this are still buried and classified, and I do not at this point recall
		what the math was.
		It was certain other things happened to me, which I will go into as I develop the story.
		That was basically the system that we were using.
		It affected the gravitic field, and the three of them would produce essentially a rotating
		field which was looking, if you wanted to take a plane view of it, looked down on it,
		looked like a donut.
		And the ship was in a hole, if you will.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I understand.
		I guess what I want to understand now is, so you've got four devices creating a magnetic
		field, and you've got four antennae.
		Creating an RF field at 160 MHz, and all of this somehow interacting.
		Were the magnetic fields also in rotation, or were they constant?
al bielek ▲ ● ▼		No, they were rotating also.
		One inside the other at a different rate of speed.
		Actually, one was rotating at twice the speed of the other.
		But both rotating counterclockwise.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Wow.
		Alright, RF.
		You've got RF.
		You've got the magnetic element.
		Was there anything else, or was it just those two elements together?
al bielek ▲ ● ▼		It was those two elements together.
		There is nothing else directly involved other than the fact, of course, the fields being generated at the lower half truncated by the seawater, because seawater is the most excellent absorber of both RF energy and magnetic energy.
		Magnetic fields do not propagate well through seawater.
		They do, but they're attenuated rather rapidly.
		In any case, that was the basic I have no idea.
		I'm not going to attempt to do any mathematics on this.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Do you know offhand how much power was directed toward the magnetic fields?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		We know in the case of the RF it was 500 kilowatts per... It was about 150 kVA total.
al bielek ▲ ● ▼		Alright.
		kva total all right they were looking at each to each coil you were looking at about uh 37.5
		kilowatts uh kva round figure okay You can't say kilowatts, because that refers to DC.
		KVA is AC, with what phase angles or power factor may be involved.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		At this point, Tesla was involved in the experiment, correct?
al bielek ▲ ● ▼		That is correct.
		He was the first director, and he remained a director through this period of time.
		Now, let me go into my history, how I became involved, as well as my brother.
unidentified		Okay.
al bielek ▲ ● ▼		I was born, as I said, in August 1916.
		My brother in May of 1917.
		Father was a Navy man, of course, and the family had a lot of money.
		Earlier on they had married into the Arnold Constable family.
		Our auntie, Auntie Arnold as we called her, originally a Cameron, had married into that family at a much earlier age.
		Her father was a result of one of those.
		I can't go into the whole lineage.
		And in the period prior to World War I, he as a Navy man had two live-in women, his first
		two wives, but they were common law. One was born by one and Duncan by the other. And when
		1917 came along and we became involved in the war, the Navy tapped him on the show over
		and said, You're going to sea now, and he abandoned those two wives. So we were raised
		by Annie Arnold in the big house in Long Island, which was at West Islet. And I was a Navy
		man. And we finished our common school education, if you will, rather encouraged as we saw them
		about once a year.
		Uh...
		Uh, to get a good education, and there was no lack of money, so we went to college.
		I went initially to Princeton and took a bachelor's degree there and was doing a master's.
		I met Dr. John von Neumann, who was on campus, and he took considerable interest in me and suggested that, well, if you're going to get a PhD, I'll encourage it most thoroughly, but I think you would do better to go to Harvard.
		It's a better school and so forth.
		So I went to Harvard and did my doctoral work.
		And Duncan, in the meantime, for whatever reason, went to the University of Edinburgh at Edinburgh, Scotland.
		We both took our Ph.D.s in the summer of 1939.
		And, of course, Father congratulated us.
		He was long since out of the Navy.
		And he arranged for us to enlist in the Navy and follow in Father's footsteps.
		So in September 1939, we both enlisted in the Navy in Church Street, New York.
		Went to a special 90-day training school for officers because we were given commissions of Lieutenant J.G.
		upon enlistment.
		And as a 90-day wonder school, there are all kinds of names that have been appended to
		these particular schools, special schools for those to go to special assignments.
		We didn't know where we were going to go or what was going to happen until after the work
		there had been completed we were assigned to the Institute of Advanced Study in January
		1940.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		What were you actually going to be in the Navy, Al, or what did you think you were going
		to do in the Navy?
		How about that?
al bielek ▲ ● ▼		He didn't really know.
		We only knew that we were taking on probably careers in the Navy.
		And since we both had Ph.D.' 's in physics, we assumed it would be some technical role, which was, of course, a correct assumption.
		And little did we know of father's involvement in the background.
		We've done a lot of research on this since he died.
		He died in 1981.
		He was born in 1891.
		He was 90 when he passed on.
		His brother, after he left the Navy in 1929, was in some manner, somehow, still involved with the military, with intelligence, with espionage, and many things.
		We have yet to uncover the whole history, but we know that he was involved in smuggling Nazi-Jewish scientists, Nix-Nazi, or Jewish scientists, out from under the noses of the Germans in Germany from 1933 until 1942.
		We've been able to determine about nine were brought over through the auspices of the company store, if you will.
		And I don't mean a three-letter company, but Arnold Constable.
		And through the company store, a long story in itself.
		And they stayed in Long Island undercover.
		When the war was over, they all went to work on special projects at Brookhaven National Laboratories, which is another story that comes after the Philadelphia Experiment.
		Well, I was involved in a lot of things.
		We have yet to track it all down.
		But he was knowledgeable as to what was coming up and he arranged for us to join the Navy
		and apparently for us to become assigned to the Philadelphia Experiment.
		We don't know that as a fact, but it appears that way.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
al bielek ▲ ● ▼		We joined the Institute in 1940 and we were brash young guys, thought we knew all about physics.
		Then we find out when we go to the Institute, where they're working on the cutting-edge projects,
		which we've never heard of in school.
		Mathematics we've never heard of.
		Von Neumann's special mathematics and other things, including unified field theory.
		We suddenly found out we didn't really know much of anything.
		We were brought up to speed.
		This was prior to the Brooklyn Navy Yard test.
		We found out what they were doing and what they were attempting to do.
		And Van Neumann himself instructed us.
		We met, of course, occasionally Tesla, who was working on other projects in his own labs and was there part-time at the Institute.
		In any case, came the test in 1940 at the Brooklyn Navy Yard.
		Fully successful.
		The Navy classifies the project, calls it Project Rainbow.
		We all had to get clearances.
		And then we found ourselves shuttling between the Institute and the Philadelphia Navy Yard, where they set up offices.
		In one of the buildings overlooking the harbor for all the classified projects, including this one.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Did you know at that time, Al, what it was that they were going to involve you in?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I mean, did they tell you the whole story or were you just sort of getting pieces of it as you needed to know?
al bielek ▲ ● ▼		No, we knew the whole story theoretically because it was not a classified project until the successful test in the Brooklyn Navy Yard.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Ah, all right, Al.
al bielek ▲ ● ▼		We knew the whole story of what they were trying to do and the theory that was involved.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, Al, we're on a network.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I've got to pause again, so hold it right there for a sec.
unidentified		Sure.
		♪♪♪ From the Kingdom of Nine, this is Coast to Coast AM with
		Art Bell on the CBC Radio Network.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, good morning.
		Yes, this is it.
		Al Belick is here.
		He's all the way out in Atlanta, Georgia, but that doesn't make any difference.
		Time and space, we just zip right through it.
		Two satellites to come to you, and he's got quite a story to tell.
		It is the story of the Philadelphia Experiment, an effort to get an entire ship to disappear, which they did.
		And we're about to get that story in a second.
		We've, up until this point, had a lot of technical details about how it was accomplished, how it was researched, who worked on it, and all the rest of that.
		And incidentally, I just got a fax here, which just came through, and if you have a fax, if you want to fax a question in, I'll be like, you can fax it in.
		But here's what I got already.
		Art, please mention how to get audiotapes of this program early.
		Many of us can't listen to the whole thing at this time.
		Thanks.
		All right.
		To get a copy of this program, you can call Area Code 503-664-7966.
		Back now to an albelic, no doubt with a cup of coffee in his hand.
		Good morning, Al.
al bielek ▲ ● ▼		Good morning.
al bielek ▲ ● ▼		Yes, I have a cup of coffee.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, good.
		I'm glad to know that you're OK.
		It's what, a little after 4 o'clock in the morning in Atlanta?
al bielek ▲ ● ▼		That's right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
		Well, thanks for joining us at this weird hour.
		That was really nice of you.
		All right.
		We're up to the point of actually telling what happened, I guess.
		So what did happen?
al bielek ▲ ● ▼		OK.
		With the test of the Brooklyn Navy Yard with a tender, and I might point out that was very important, no personnel were on board that ship during the test.
		It was fully successful.
		It became invisible.
		And at that point, the Navy said, we have a successful test.
		They took over the project, classified it, called it Project Rainbow.
		And of course, all personnel connected with the project, including Duncan, my brother, myself, had our clearances, which was no problem.
		And they had special offices in the Philadelphia Navy Yard for the classified project.
		So we shuttled back and forth.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Did you witness, were you a witness to the first one out?
al bielek ▲ ● ▼		As I recall now, no.
		I was not a witness to that.
		Now, what happened at that point, of course, was went up and down the line, and eventually President Roosevelt heard about it.
		He was elated, and he says to Mr. Tesla, says, Nicola, says, I'm giving you now a real ship to make invisible.
		I'm loaning you a battleship.
		He says, if you can make that invisible, you can make anything invisible.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, there's where I'm going to stop you, Al.
		I've got a couple things to do.
		Rest for a moment.
		We'll be right back to you.
		All right.
		I believe that we are back again.
		Good morning, everybody.
		We're sorry for the interruption.
		We had some telephone line snags, and we had to quickly scramble and re-establish everything.
		We're speaking with Al Belick, Al Belick of the Philadelphia Experiment, and we're going back to Al now in Atlanta, Georgia.
		Al, I'm sorry for the interruption.
		Those things happen.
		Yeah.
		At any rate, let's back up a little bit.
		We're going to have to do that, since we lost a few moments in pick-up.
		We're at a critical point.
al bielek ▲ ● ▼		Right.
		As I said, we returned to the Institute in January of 1942 to find preparations well underway for the test for the battleship.
		And they were nearly complete, but Tesla was having serious misgivings about the problems of the extreme power required to make a ship of 30,000 tons invisible, as compared with a small tender, in which there would be personnel present.
		He was very concerned about the possible damage or injury or even death of personnel from the very high-powered electromagnetic fields.
		As you would ask earlier, there is, at that time, there was no information in the literature about what the neurological effects of certain levels of RF from magnetic fields would be.
		This was new territory.
		And, of course, today we have a lot of that information.
		There's a long history of tests.
		But that extends from the Philadelphia Experiment as the beginning point.
		Well, he was concerned.
		He was very severely concerned, and he went to the Navy and asked for an extension of time to solve the problem.
		He says, I'm sure I can solve it.
		I need more time.
		The Navy says, you have an assigned test date, March 42.
		Do what you have to do, but you must meet that date.
		He had a serious problem there, and he knew it, and he decided the two options he had, to go ahead with the test or to cancel it, that he would Sabotaged the test deliberately by detuning the equipment so that when the switches were thrown on that fateful day, nothing happened other than a few pieces of equipment blew up.
		Tubes blew out in the transmitters and that was all.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So he was in fear of what was about to happen to the degree that he actually sabotaged the test.
al bielek ▲ ● ▼		He did.
		And of course he bowed out at that point, saying the test is a failure of other things to do.
		We have a very good man here.
		You have a good man here who can take over this test, Dr. John von Neumann.
		Well, of course, for his argument to this day, did he leave voluntarily or did the Navy fire him?
		Regardless, he left.
		And, of course, as history shows, he didn't live much longer after that.
		He died on January 7, 1943, in his hotel room in New York, in the New Yorker, in New York City.
		General Neumann takes over and, of course, first thing he says to the Navy is, well, I have to study the problem and see what's wrong here.
		And it didn't take him long to find out what happened.
		But he decided that he was going to take advantage of this opportunity to redesign the equipment.
		Tesla's approach was analog, and Neumann was known as a man who liked pulsing equipment and the pulsed approach, so he decided to redesign the equipment for pulsed modulation rather than continuous analog form of modulation.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, I would think, and maybe you can help me out here, but I would think once you moved into the area of pulse, you would be able to achieve higher Yes, very true, and that wasn't his idea.
al bielek ▲ ● ▼		He, of course, abandoned the battleship, and the battleship was presumed returned to service.
		I don't recall now what happened to it, but it wasn't there after a certain date, and we were all part of it at that point.
		So, von Neumann, along about June of 1942, decides he wants a ship which is designed from the ground up for this project.
		So, in July, he went to the, uh, shipbuilding, Federal Shipbuilding Yards in Newark, NJ.
		He picks a number off a drawing board, DE-173, which later was known as the Eldridge, and said, I want this, this, and this changed.
		Basically, what he wanted was, of the four gun turrets, number two was to be left unfinished.
		They said, you have a dummy wooden turret for it for tests at sea, but they wanted that hole, as it were, left unfinished without the ammo racks below.
		Part of the interior of the ship was to be gutted so they could drop the heavy equipment in through that hole and slide it on rails to the central point midships.
		So the ship was built with those specifications.
		It came down the ways in September of 42, wanted to dry dock for outfitting the heavy equipment.
		The heavy equipment included the two 75 kVA generators, which were designed for this project, along with a very large electric motor with two right angle gear drives.
		The electric motor was a 750-horse monster.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Wow.
al bielek ▲ ● ▼		The entire equipment was run on its own, a separate power system from ship's power.
al bielek ▲ ● ▼		They ran in a special diesel-electric generator, about 8 megawatts output, which was a lot of output.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's a big generator.
al bielek ▲ ● ▼		That's a big generator, but that's one of the reasons they had to have the interior of the hull gutted.
		All of that equipment was moved in in dry dock, and then about September of 1942, of course, the ship was taken under its own power.
		It was not totally gutted by any means, Uh, to the Philadelphia Navy Yard and put in a secure area in the rear.
		There was a front section for ordinary shipping, and there was a rear section with access control by a drawbridge for classified projects.
		So in December, the ship was sent there, and then in January on, the special electronics equipment was moved aboard.
		It wasn't that large.
		Also during that summer, Van Norman decided, and the Navy concurred, they wanted a special crew for these tests, namely an all-volunteer crew.
		So they went throughout the Navy, I acquired after a period of time some 33 enlisted men,
		about seven officers who volunteered for this project and essentially signed their lives away.
		And went through a special training school in the Coast Guard Academy in McGrowden, Connecticut,
		if I remember correctly, for three months from September to December of 1942.
		And who was the schoolmaster, if you will?
		We still have a picture of this crew.
		The headmaster was none other than my father in his Coast Guard uniform.
		Uh-huh, and there he was again involved with the project Boy, just intertwined.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Your father intertwined all the way through this, didn't he?
al bielek ▲ ● ▼		That is correct.
		He intertwined a lot later.
		I'll go into that later.
		In any case, he was involved.
		We know this now.
		And this crew, when it was finished with its training, was assigned to the Philadelphia Navy Yard.
		The electronics went on board the Eldridge, as it came to be known later, during that period in January to March.
		Now, we came back In there, as I said, at the beginning of 42, and we were in through that whole period.
		And we then said to Von Neumann repeatedly, you're likely to have a problem.
		Tesla said so.
		He was not very pleased about the mentioning of the name Tesla.
		I have to point something out.
		All of the personnel at the Institute had PhDs, with the sole exception of Nikola Tesla, who was not on staff.
		He was there as a consultant, you might say.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Were the two of them competitive, Al?
al bielek ▲ ● ▼		In a certain sense, that was true.
		They both highly respected each other's abilities, and von Neumann never doubted the capability of Tesla.
		He even had an impeccable reputation up to the point of the test failure in March 42.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Were there professional jealousies?
al bielek ▲ ● ▼		It was sort of a professional jealousy, because Tesla, you see, did not have a degree.
al bielek ▲ ● ▼		He had an honorary PhD, but he did not have a real one.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I see.
al bielek ▲ ● ▼		But no one questioned his capability.
		No one at all.
		But it was a sort of professional thing.
		He was a man ahead of the project who didn't have a PhD.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So I can understand there might be some resentments there.
		All right, hold the story for a second.
		We'll be right back to you, Al.
		Okay.
		Al Belick and the Philadelphia Experiment is the subject this morning.
		stay right where you are back down to atlanta georgia
		And now we've got about three minutes before the break at the bottom of the hour.
		Go ahead.
unidentified		Okay.
al bielek ▲ ● ▼		With the continuing work on this, as we learned when we mentioned particularly about Tesla's name to von Neumann, he became very irate.
		But von Neumann himself became convinced in a short period of time that there is a potential for problems on the human element.
		He decided to up the power.
		First of all, it was a pulsed approach, 10% duty cycle.
		And he decided to up the power.
		The transmitters which, RF transmitters, which had been half a megawatt output, he upped the boosters to 2 megawatts each.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Holy mackerel!
al bielek ▲ ● ▼		macro he had a quadruple pulse theoretically at 20 megawatts each peak
		pulse power output they didn't go that high but had the theoretical capability
		wow he made no change in the generator system other than with the pulse technique he had to put special
		damper coils on the top of these conical magnetic field generators if you will
		on the deck of the ship which stood a little over six feet
		high by the way
		And he started to become concerned about the problems of power and related to the human mind and the neurological system.
		So he decided to try to do something to compensate for this.
		He added a third generator to the system after ordering it from Westinghouse.
		Never worked properly.
		He couldn't synchronize that with the other two.
		And eventually, one day in May of 43, Uh, it went out of control and one of the other technicians assigned to us, uh, was zapped badly with a, uh, arc of, engine of almost lightning.
		High voltage that came off of that generator, which was out of sync.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Right.
al bielek ▲ ● ▼		Wound up in the hospital in a coma for four months, eventually recovered and was given a medical discharge.
		So he was back to square one, he scrapped the third generator, and decided to continue along with his normal approach.
		Now, in June, the ship had sea trials, which were very successful, because the intent was, if all the tests were successful, the Altitude would immediately go to sea.
		And they had all kinds of backup systems already built.
		In any case, the test date, after a lot of testing in the Navy Yard, of the various systems, subsystem testing, really, I decided to go for the full board test in July of 43 in the harbor and outside of Philadelphia.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, that's a good place to hold it, then.
		We're now at the bottom of the hour, and when we come back, we'll pick up with the full-scale test.
		All right, stay right there, Al Belick, and he is our guest from Atlanta, Georgia.
		You're listening to the CBC Radio Network from the high deserts of the great American Southwest.
		I'm Art Bell.
unidentified		I'll stay right there.
unidentified		In the kingdom of night, this is Coast to Coast AM with Art Bell on the CBC Radio Network.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Good morning, everybody.
unidentified		Now, once again, here's Art.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Thank you.
		I'm so sorry to interrupt you, Ross.
		That's Ross Mitchell of KOH.
		My guest, my guest is Al Belich from the Philadelphia Experiment.
		And just when we got to a critical moment on the discussion of the experiment, just as apparently he was saying, and then the battleship We lost everything.
		Picked it back up again.
		And now, once again, out to Atlanta, Georgia.
		And I wonder if they got us.
		I wonder if somebody was listening and said, we don't want that story out.
		Click.
		Sure felt that way.
		And this is the way people begin to believe in conspiracies, don't you know?
		Al Belick, are you there?
al bielek ▲ ● ▼		Yes, I'm here.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Good.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		As I said, it's almost enough to get a person to believe in conspiracies, Al.
al bielek ▲ ● ▼		Well, I've had that happen once before on a different show in the days when one of the people from Vegas moved back east to Rhode Island.
al bielek ▲ ● ▼		They cut off all the phone lines and he couldn't call me and I couldn't call him.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, I actually, I'll tell you Al, for a few moments there I really did experience that.
		I couldn't get a line out, I couldn't get a line, the numbers I dialed were disconnected and put me back to a dial tone.
		It was really weird.
		So something happened.
		Anyway, back to it if you would.
al bielek ▲ ● ▼		Right.
		On July 22nd, we had our first field test in the harbor.
		The volunteer crew actually only used a skeleton crew of about 15 enlisted men and some eight officers, two of whom were Duncan and myself, who were trained to run the equipment for the test.
		The equipment was housed in a special completely enclosed room on deck, which was part of the main structure of the ship.
		So we were on station at about 900 hours.
		We were told to go ahead with the test by radio link, and there was a carrier with us, an observer ship, with certain personnel on board, including Dr. Von Neumann.
		So we fired up the equipment.
		See, there were no computers in those days.
		Everything had to be done by hand.
		And we knew what the procedure was, so we fired up the equipment, and the ship became invisible to sight, as well as to radar.
		By 43, they had very good radar, and they were concerned about radar invisibility.
		Everything went very well.
		After about 20 minutes, the commander who was in charge of the test, Captain Harrison, who is now deceased, ordered the test discontinued.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay, I want to ask you a question about the test, Al.
		I, of course, was not there, and I just saw the movie, but I'm recalling that in the movie, the ship did not disappear right away.
		It kind of wavered and quavered and Uh, shimmered almost, and is that the way it was in reality?
al bielek ▲ ● ▼		Partially correct.
		However, in the first test, the ship disappeared from sight as well as from radar, but it was surrounded with a mist, and it was a sort of greenish fog.
		And why the color green, we don't really know, except that one of the byproducts of this test was in generation of large amounts of ozone gas.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Right.
al bielek ▲ ● ▼		The ship, however, was still there in the harbor, but what they found in the process of the observation was that the waterline, which would show where the ship should be, was much larger than the ship, and there was an apparent hole in the bay, much larger than the ship itself, and they couldn't see the bottom of it through binoculars from the observing personnel on the carrier.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		A hole in the bay?
al bielek ▲ ● ▼		Yeah.
al bielek ▲ ● ▼		In other words, a very large waterline with nothing there.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Wow!
al bielek ▲ ● ▼		And Captain Harrison was very concerned about this.
		He said that he knew the ship was gutted in the interior and there wasn't everything there in a normal internal structure.
		He was afraid that the ship might be supported on air rather than on water and it would break in half.
		He knew that if that were the case.
		So we ordered the ship's test discontinued.
		We turned off the power and returned under a normal power back to dock site.
		At that point we found out that those personnel who were on deck were very severely disoriented, nauseous, You know, as they say, it goes out of it.
		And, uh, definitely not well, showing the effects of exposure to very high-powered electromagnetic radiation.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, these were the personnel on deck, but not necessarily those who were inside.
al bielek ▲ ● ▼		Well, that is correct.
		Those below deck were not affected.
		Duncan and I, being behind steel, were not affected.
		Steel is an excellent shield against both magnetic fields, as well as RF.
unidentified		Right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, so where were you exactly when the first test occurred?
al bielek ▲ ● ▼		We were in the control room, which was midships, and we ran all the equipment right from that point.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So you were actually operating the equipment that did this?
al bielek ▲ ● ▼		That is correct.
		That was our job and our task, Duncan and myself.
		It took two people to operate the equipment properly.
		And we just continued the test on orders, went back to the Navy Yard.
		They found out they had very sick personnel, and then Neumann was quite concerned about this.
		The Navy says, not to worry, we have another crew for you.
		And von Neumann then went to the Navy and says, I have to look at this and study this and try to solve this problem.
		The Navy gave no response for a few days, and von Neumann asked for an extension in time, a relevant and definite one.
		The Navy finally came up with an answer and says, you will complete the test by the 12th of August, 1943, or forget it.
		It was a drop-dead test date.
		Like, do it by then and just forget the whole damn thing.
		Well, nobody understood this, and I knew Hal Bowen fairly well at that point, and I went to him and said, What is this all about?
		He said, Well, that's the orders I received.
		I said, Where did they come from, and what's this all about?
		Well, he tracked it down, found out that it came from the Chief of Naval Operations himself, who was then Admiral King, and he was told that this is the way it is.
		Now, Admiral King, as CNO, is not concerned Other than the cursory way of engineering tests, he is concerned with the operation of the war and the Navy's part in that and all theaters of operation.
		He is not a man who is going to take detailed interest in an engineering test.
		So we didn't understand this.
		It took a long time to find out what was really involved.
		In fact, it took many decades.
		In any case, we have the 12th of August drop-dead date, and the Navy says, oh, you don't have to worry about invisibility for the eye.
		Optical invisibility, all we're really concerned about is radar invisibility.
		Well, I've had a slight decrease in the stringency of the requirements.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And on the 12th of August... Al, how much less power did it take to produce radar invisibility versus real invisibility?
al bielek ▲ ● ▼		It was not so much a matter of power as a matter of scientific approach and how much of a phase shift in terms of the time vector.
al bielek ▲ ● ▼		I've got you.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I've got you.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So in other words, the power levels were roughly consistent, just the phases were changed.
al bielek ▲ ● ▼		Right.
		What we did was shift phase around the coil, as I called it, of time to a slightly lesser degree of shift, which would still provide radar and visibility.
		And what you did is you shifted to that point and then you locked at that point.
		That was the theory.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Were the biological effects less with that shift?
al bielek ▲ ● ▼		No, as we found out.
		On the 12th of August, we were about to proceed with the rest of the tests and what Captain Harrison insisted upon was to have hydrostatic tests of the whole stress By means of special sensors installed on the hull, inside and outside, the submarine was assigned to go under the ship and see what was going on.
		And a secondary crew was put on board that ship for these tests.
		At the last minute, something went wrong.
		They decided to cancel the special hydrostatic test.
		The secondary crew was pulled off, put on the sub, and the sub pulled out.
		And we were left there alone, when Duncan and I, standing by the rail, were very perturbed, wondering what the blazes is going on.
		We knew something was wrong, but we had no idea what.
		And the orders came to proceed with the test in the normal manner.
		So we did.
		Well, from the standpoint of those outside on the observer ships, and for the second test there were three observer ships.
		There was a carrier, there was a naval, a Coast Guard cutter, and there was a commercial ship known as the SS Furryasset, which figures very prominently in the book written by Hurlitz and Moore, Project Invisibility.
		And they were concerned because in 1943, the German submarine fleet was sinking 50% of our shipping, grossing the ocean to get to England.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Right.
al bielek ▲ ● ▼		And the merchant marine ships wanted the equipment immediately if it was successful.
		So they were observing the test themselves.
		Fired up the equipment as on command, and for the first 60 or 70 seconds, everything seemed to be normal.
		The ship had radar invisibility, but you could still see it vaguely through a fog.
		And then there was a bright flash of blue light and the ship disappeared completely.
		The water line disappeared.
		There was no ship there.
		Well, everybody panicked, particularly John von Neumann.
		And there was no radio contact.
		And there was no contact for some four hours.
		And the ship finally returned to the harbor in the same location.
		And they knew immediately something was wrong because the special radio antenna, which had been designed by T. Townsend Brown as his contribution to the project, because he was involved with special Navy projects, I'm not going to go into his history on this.
		But his antenna was broken, pieces missing, and there was superficial structural damage, and they could get no radio response, and they could see something was wrong on deck for binoculars.
		So a special boarding party was sent out to board the ship, and they did, and they found four sailors in the process of dying.
		Two were buried in the steel deck, and two were buried in the bulkheads, standing upright, but emerged, if you will, in the steel.
		Fifth man had a hand buried in steel, bulkhead.
		He lived and cut his hand off and gave an artificial hand later.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		God, what a terrible way to die.
al bielek ▲ ● ▼		Yes, definitely.
		And one of those in the bulkhead, upright, happened to be a younger brother, Jim, who was six years younger than I am.
		He enlisted in the Navy after the war started, and he wound up in the volunteer crew, and he wound up throwing the straw for the second test.
		And he was dying.
		I put my arm around him and dunk him.
		looked at this and decided I will have to backtrack a little bit.
		He decided to jump overboard.
unidentified		Now, this was not the first time.
al bielek ▲ ● ▼		Let's go back a little bit and tell what happened to Duncan and I.
		I gave the external observance of what happened.
		Now internally, we were in the control room and for about 30 seconds everything seemed to be normal.
		But then we realized something was not right, because the banks of electron tubes, it was some 3,000 6L6 tubes, not the miniatures, but the full-sized bottles.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		My God, I remember the 6L6, Al.
		That was in the first amateur radio transmitter.
		I had one of them.
al bielek ▲ ● ▼		Yep, and they used a lot of those in the audio equipment for years and years.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's right.
		Driven by a 6AG7.
		Now, how's that for a memory?
unidentified		Oh, very good.
al bielek ▲ ● ▼		Oh yes, that's a good tube at that time.
		In any case, the banks started wavering, then we started to get electrical arcing internally in the control room.
		Now, there was no high voltage equipment in the control room, and yet we were having the equivalent of 100,000 volt plus arc-overs.
		And it got worse, so we couldn't raise no one on the radio.
		It seemed to be working, but there was no response.
		We then had a transmitter linked directly to the transmitter, as well as a receiver in the control room, unlike the first test.
		The good reason, old buddy, was that we were on our own and our instructions said, do whatever you feel is appropriate should something go wrong.
		So we went for the power switches, the main power to shut everything down, and the handles were frozen.
		They wouldn't budge.
		So at that point, with everything getting worse in the control room, we decided to get out of the control room and went out on deck.
		There was no one buried in the steel at that point, but everyone was running around.
		There was a mist on deck and you couldn't see anything beyond the rail.
		We both got the bright idea at the same time to jump overboard and swim ashore.
		So we did jump overboard.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I can understand that.
al bielek ▲ ● ▼		But we never hit the water.
		We fell and fell and fell like we were falling through a tunnel for what subjectively seemed like about a minute.
		And then we found ourselves landing on dry ground that night in what was obviously a military base of some kind, because it was a chain-link fence of a military design directly to our rear.
		Suddenly there was a bright light overhead, a searchlight beaming down as we found out later from the helicopter, but in 1943 who knew much about helicopters?
		They were experimental at that point.
		And suddenly out of nowhere comes a number of MPs.
		They grab us and they take us to a building on this base.
		We go inside and we go in an elevator.
		We go down several levels and the door opens and we see a lot of military personnel running around and then an elderly civilian with white hair approaches us and says, gentlemen, I've been waiting for you.
		I'm Dr. John von Neumann.
		At which point we look at him and say, you're who?
		And he says, I'm Dr. Chandler Neumann.
		John Neumann.
		I said, it couldn't be.
		We left him perhaps an hour ago.
		He's a much younger man.
		He says, yes, I know.
		He says, I am the same man you knew in 1943.
		This is not 1943.
		This is now the year 1983.
		You're at Montauk, Long Island, part of the Phoenix Project, or as we call it now, the Montauk Project.
		Well, we couldn't believe it.
		We thought he was bonkers.
unidentified		Of course.
al bielek ▲ ● ▼		But nevertheless, he gave us a quick tour of the underground, and we see computers, graphic displays, large screen color TV, and things which did not exist in 1943.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So he was expecting you?
al bielek ▲ ● ▼		He was definitely expecting us.
		We stayed there about 12 hours, and after watching TV for several hours and seeing ads for Flight of Hawaii and a 747 jet, we would sit there with our mouths agape.
		And look at shots of the freeway traffics and freeways and man on the moon and references and the Cold War.
		We suddenly realized something was terribly wrong or maybe the man is right.
		We were there about 12 hours and von Neumann sprung it on us and told us what had happened.
		He said, this project in 1983, the Phoenix Project, has locked up through time with the experiment with the Eldridge in 43.
		And I said, the ship disappeared and is in hyperspace.
		We can't control that ship from here, but the generators have to be shut off.
		He says, we have created a bubble in hyperspace, which is growing, and we don't know how big it will grow or what will happen if it isn't stopped.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, Al.
		There's where I'm going to stop you, Al.
		I've got a couple things to do.
unidentified		Rest for a moment.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		We'll be right back to you.
		and uh... there is no bill it in the future in nineteen eighty three and
		that's exactly where we'll pick it up in a moment back to our billet
		in the year nineteen eighty three forward
		disoriented trying to figure out why he's uh... being fed this story
		about being in the And, Al, you're back again.
unidentified		Okay.
al bielek ▲ ● ▼		Well, we spent about 12 hours there at Montauk, and von Neumann brings this one on us about the shipping and the hyperspace bubble, the power is fed.
		To keep that bubble going and growing from the ship itself, he says, we cannot control the equipment on the Eldridge from here.
		We have to send you back to shut off the equipment.
		As we had told him, we couldn't.
		He said, you will have to shut it off anywhere you can, smash it, destroy it, whatever.
		So we looked at him and said, well, just how are we going to get back there?
		He says, that is no problem for us.
		He says, here in this project, we have solved the problems of space and time.
		We can send you anywhere we want at any time we want.
		We will send you back to the decks of the Eldridge, and it's up to you from that point on.
		Well, I'll make a long story short.
		We did send us back.
		The equipment sent us back, and we took up axes and smashed the equipment.
		When enough was smashed, of course, the generator started to wind down, and we knew it was over.
		So we went out on deck.
		At that point, having accomplished our task, and that's when we saw the sailors buried in the steel.
		It was still a haze, and it took about two minutes, approximately, probably, How?
		He feels the collapse.
		The ship did return to the harbor at the same point.
		Before it did, however, the episode I referred to earlier, Duncan looking at me and like,
		aren't I going to go with him?
		He jumped overboard and he disappeared, as we found out much later, returned to that project.
		In time in late 82 or early 83, we don't know exactly when, eventually he died there.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Al, I'm curious, what do you think would have occurred, or what's the best guess about what would have occurred
art bell ▲ ● ▼		had you not been able to get back on board and smash that equipment?
al bielek ▲ ● ▼		Neumann's assumption at that time was that the hyperspace bubble would grow to the point where it could overwhelm the Earth itself.
		And they were concerned, theoretically, of course, whether it was a practicality or not, if there was enough fuel in the generator supply to keep those equipments running for 30 days if they didn't break down first.
		And it could theoretically engulf the Earth.
		The Earth itself, theoretically, could disappear in a hyperspace bubble.
		In any case, that was a theoretical concern.
		And they weren't about to sit around and wait for it to happen.
		So we did smash the equipment.
		The ship returned to the harbor.
		Something jumped overboard.
		I remained with the ship.
		Four sailors died.
		And, of course, the boarding party reported what had happened.
		They sent another party on board ship to bring it back to the...
		Out of the harbor, back to the rear port of the Navy Yard, because there was no other damage to the ship.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Al, how many personnel, total, were there on the ship?
al bielek ▲ ● ▼		At that time, there was approximately 21, if I remember the numbers.
unidentified		21.
al bielek ▲ ● ▼		There was a normal complement of 150 officers and men, but there was a skeleton crew for just the test.
al bielek ▲ ● ▼		Do you know how many of those are still alive today?
unidentified		Very few.
al bielek ▲ ● ▼		I know of about four enlisted men and one officer, other than Duncan and myself, who are still around.
al bielek ▲ ● ▼		It's possible there are others, but I'm not sure of that.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		How many actually died?
unidentified		Both directly.
al bielek ▲ ● ▼		At that time, there were four who died.
		There were two others who jumped overboard, besides Duncan and myself, and they disintegrated immediately, which raises a good issue.
		Why did we survive and the others didn't?
		And others who disappeared, and some of those on the surface of the ship, one on the funny farm, because they were totally insane.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		How do you know that they disappeared, or disintegrated rather, why?
al bielek ▲ ● ▼		The stories were, they were seen to disappear, and of course there was a shortage of the complement.
al bielek ▲ ● ▼		When they made a nose count, so to speak, later there were several missing.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I understand that, but why wouldn't you presume the possibility that they, too, moved into a different time and just did not get back?
al bielek ▲ ● ▼		Unknown.
		That's an unknown.
		We can assume anything you want.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So it's definitely possible, uh, one... Very definitely.
		Yeah, the reason I say that is because that's what occurred to you, so one could reasonably presume that that occurred to them.
		They simply may not have gone to the same controlled experiment with a return that you did, so they may have lived out their lives in some other time.
al bielek ▲ ● ▼		That is very possible.
		There's definitely an unknown, but there's almost anything to be assumed possible.
		In any case, we had a four-day Board of Inquiry.
		What went wrong?
		I gave my report, which included the trip to the future.
		Nobody believed me, including Dr. von Neumann.
		And after all of this, the Navy said, well, let's try one more test.
		We have a lot of spares and equipment.
		Rip out the damaged equipment and have the ship ready for another test.
		And this was done in the harbor, the Outer Harbor, Philadelphia, in October of 43.
		And they decided to do the 1940 routine, put the ship on station, and remove all personnel and control equipment by remote cable.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Ah, all right.
		Hold that, hold it right there.
		We're at the top of the hour.
		You've got five minutes to rest, and we'll come back and get the final experiment.
al bielek ▲ ● ▼		Okay.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
		What a story, huh?
		This is Al Belick you're listening to.
		He's with us from Atlanta, Georgia.
		Al Belick was part of the Philadelphia experiment.
		And yes, we will open the telephone lines.
		So get ready for more from the High Desert.
unidentified		♪♪ ♪♪
		From the Kingdom of Nye, you're hearing Coast to Coast AM with Art Bell.
		Much more than just a talk show.
		To participate in the program, call toll-free 1-800-618-8255.
		That's 1-800-618-8255.
		This is the CBC Radio Network.
		It absolutely is.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I'm Art Bell.
		Thank you, Ross Mitchell of KOH.
		We've got Al Belick on the line with an incredible story.
		And, uh, I'm gonna start out this hour with a fax that I just received, and if you have a fax or question for Al Belick, you're welcome to fax it in, and shortly you'll be able to call it in.
		My fax number is area code 702-727-8499.
		702-727-8499. 702-727-8499. And one other number I want to give you is the number to
unidentified		702-727-8499.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		order this program if you've not been able to hear the entire story. It's been underway
art bell ▲ ● ▼		now for two hours.
unidentified		Bye.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Two hours.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You can get a copy of this program by calling Area Code 503-664-7966.
unidentified		You can call right now or you can call later.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Area Code 503-664-7966.
		Back now to Atlanta, Georgia and Al Belick.
		now or you can call later. Area code 503-664-7966. Back now to Atlanta, Georgia and Al Belick.
		Al, are you there?
		Let me put you on hold here.
		Put you, uh, back on over here.
		There, I think we've got you now.
		Hello, Al.
unidentified		Okay.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Good.
		Um, alright, so we're coming up now to the final, uh, experiment.
		But just before we get to that, I've already got a facts question here for you.
		Here, I'll read it to you just the way I got it.
		It's from Devin Rambo in Bakersfield.
		He says, a question.
		Are there any books I can go get about this?
		This is the weirdest, coolest science fiction or non-science fiction story I've ever heard, and I'd like to read about it.
		So, what about it?
		Where would he buy a book that would tell him about this?
al bielek ▲ ● ▼		Well, the history of literature on the subject goes back quite a ways, but in terms of actual books, there was one entitled Finnair, published in 1978, which I believe is out of print.
		And told in a fictionalized form, the story of the Philadelphia Experiment.
		The one done by 1979 by Berlitz and Moore, entitled, The Philadelphia Experiment, Project Invisibility, is well known, and has been available as a paperback for many years, and still available.
		But it does not really tell a detailed history of what exactly happened.
		Mr. Moore, who did most of the research, was never able to find out very much, and he has done 180 since, and says he doesn't think it ever happened.
		The other one was the one written by myself and Brad Steiger, entitled The Philadelphia Experiment and Other UFO Conspiracies.
		It is available in many of the New Age bookstores, and the listeners are not able to find it that way.
		They can contact me and ship it out.
		I have it available.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Who is the publisher?
al bielek ▲ ● ▼		Publisher is Interlight Publications, New Brunswick, New Jersey.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, and how would they contact you, Al?
al bielek ▲ ● ▼		You would have to contact me through my post office box here in the Atlanta area.
		It's actually in Marietta.
		And I'll have to get that number out.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Why don't you do that during one of the next breaks?
al bielek ▲ ● ▼		I will.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
		Now, here we come.
		The final experiment you were going to tell us about.
al bielek ▲ ● ▼		Right.
		So in late October, late at night, they decided it was set to put the ship on station, pull all the personnel off, And, uh, control the equipment by remote control through over a thousand feet of cable.
		And, again, the ship disappeared, came back some 15 or 20 minutes later, and the equipment related to the invisibility test was a smoking ruin.
		So, at which point the Navy washed the hands of everything connected with these tests and says, re-equip the ship for war duty.
		And it was so re-equipped, and from approximately January of 1944 on, it was in the normal operations of the war.
		It was retired in 1946, put into mothballs.
		1951, President Truman took the Eldridge and others out of mothballs on an agreement.
		The Greek Navy was transferred to the Greeks.
		They renamed it the Leon, and as we found out with research and correspondence, the Leon is still in the Greek Navy to this day.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Uh-huh.
al bielek ▲ ● ▼		And that was the saga of the Eldridge.
		Insofar as I am concerned, I remained in the Navy as a career officer for a number of years.
		An ointment took me aside and it says, I don't know whether to believe your story or not, and it's not very much of a problem, but I'm going to build a little time machine here, and I'm going to send you back in the future, and you're going to bring proof back to me of what has happened, that your story is true.
		Well, unbeknownst to the Navy, because he worked at that time with the Institute, and the Navy was not directly funding the Institute and had no control over it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I'm sorry, this was in 1951?
unidentified		No, this was in late 1943, early 1944.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And at that point, he was going to build a time machine?
al bielek ▲ ● ▼		Yes, and he did.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And he did?
al bielek ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
		And he sent me back to the project in the 80s, 82, 83, and more than once.
		I brought back, eventually, proof of the fact that I had been there, and that he had been there, or was to be there, in terms of 1943, and eventually was satisfied.
		And he then went on to other projects.
		In October of 1943, he became involved with the Los Alamos Bomb Project.
		And in the summer of 1944, in July of 1944, at his request, and the Navy's very happy uh... agreement i was shipped with family because by that
		time i was married had a
		uh... baby son and i was up to los alamos and help work on the project
		along with my mormon who was actually not resident there but a
		consultant the visitor
		remained in los alamos until july fourth nineteen forty seven
		which time i was arrested charged with espionage which was absolutely
		ridiculous but nonetheless i was arrested you were charged with espionage
		as you move from the family of whom i never saw again in the baby son of my
		wife and this is a camera and understand not as i'll build
		i was taken uh... by trained washington dc expected a full court-martial the
		was not in charge of the canceled They said, we have a new assignment for you.
		We're sending you out to Port Hero, Long Island.
		There is a Navy base out there.
		I did not know at that point that Fort Hero, an Army base containing also a Navy base, was the exact location of the Montauk Project, the Phoenix Project as we called it, where in later years it became the main project, which in 1983 pulled us from the outage.
		So I was sent out there in 1947.
		And I was there a few hours and was told to go to a certain circle, stand there surrounded by a large number of military personnel with drawn weapons, said, don't move.
		I didn't.
		Suddenly I was not there.
		I was back in the underground area of Montauk.
		And a very tearful von Neumann says, I don't like what they're going to do to you, but I have nothing to say about this.
		I'm only a consultant here.
		And they're going to strip you of your memories, and they're going to send you back to the past, and you're going to start life over as somebody else.
		So they did, to make a long story short, strip me of all my memories, and by means of age regression techniques, which the government has, they can physically regress the age of a person, anyone they so choose, to make the much older person much younger, like a 65-year-old person can be made equivalent to 25 physically without losing any of their memory or capabilities.
		Very closely guarded secret.
		I know people have gone through it personally.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Al, I want to stop you for just a second because I want to ask you a question.
al bielek ▲ ● ▼		Sure.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		What do you say to people?
		I mean, you sound lucid to me, Al, but there are people who will listen to this story and they will say, you were really a candidate for the Philadelphia loony bin.
		And what do you say to these people?
al bielek ▲ ● ▼		Well, all I can say is do your own research.
		If you don't believe me, that's your choice.
		I mean, I can't force anyone to believe the story.
		I know it's certain aspects of it are Very difficult to accept, but there are people who know of these aspects of the experiment, namely the age regression research that was done from 1947 approximately onward at a research institute in Miami, Florida, which Howard Hughes himself taught.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Age regression?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You mean psychological?
al bielek ▲ ● ▼		Age regression, which led to age regression.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You mean psychological regression?
al bielek ▲ ● ▼		No, they were doing physical age regression.
al bielek ▲ ● ▼		They were concerned with the physical aging of the body and how to stop the aging process and, if possible, reverse it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Wow.
al bielek ▲ ● ▼		After several decades, they came up with some workable systems and finally were able to do a full age regression, taking a person back up to 40 years, 40 years off of their age physically, make them young again.
		And they held us special people in the government.
		They didn't want to leave service because it was much too valuable.
		And that's a long story in itself.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		What about Einstein?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Surely they would have taken him back.
al bielek ▲ ● ▼		The equipment was not functional at that time.
		He died in 1955.
		The research was not completed to a workable state until the late 60s or early 70s.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Good point.
		Good point.
		Okay.
al bielek ▲ ● ▼		Okay, they decided to do one better with me.
		They were going to take me back and reshrink me down to a young kid at the age of about one, after stripping me of all memories, and then plug me in another family.
		And that's how I became a Bialik.
		Transported backward through time because Montauk they could send you any place they wanted.
		Somehow they prepared it, how I don't know.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, if they stripped you of your memories, Al, how do you know everything that you've told us?
al bielek ▲ ● ▼		Because no matter what techniques are used to remove memory, other than brain surgery itself, they had to keep me alive for various reasons.
		I'll go into that later.
		And they had to keep Duncan alive for various reasons.
		He was given a new body and was sent back into a period in 1963 when he assumed a new
		body, which was already 12 years old.
		The verification of that out of a CIA agent who knew the whole story, he was following Duncan around for 20 years.
		The story by no means becomes very difficult to believe, but nevertheless, things go on in the government which the
		average person has not the slightest cognizance of.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, what about the technology, Al?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		If they, surely in the 80s, they had pretty well perfected time travel itself, then where is it today in the 90s?
al bielek ▲ ● ▼		In use.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You're saying it's in use?
al bielek ▲ ● ▼		It's been in use since earlier than the 80s.
		The project at Montauk, I will get into that shortly, the project at Montauk was a special case of advanced time travel.
		Time travel, per se, was discovered and actually functional in 1944, both in the United States and in Germany.
		The Germans had a system earlier than 1944, which they were using.
		And there is some documentation on that, but not very much.
		But they were working on it also, and I might also add, they were working on their own project in visibility, involving submarines.
		And they had one disaster after another, and they abandoned it also.
		And that, essentially, was the story of Project Invisibility at that time.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, you have, then, quite an extensive knowledge about some aspects of time travel, and I want to ask you about one of them.
al bielek ▲ ● ▼		Okay.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You know, the old business about if you go back and disturb something, or if you go back and, for example, kill somebody who would later have borne you, you could literally extinguish yourself.
al bielek ▲ ● ▼		That test was attempted by, I understand, the Navy itself in 1973.
al bielek ▲ ● ▼		And they had the same idea of go back, kill the father of a person they wanted to eliminate before he married.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
al bielek ▲ ● ▼		And the son was born by his wife.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
al bielek ▲ ● ▼		And they did, I understand, go back and extinguish the life of that gentleman before he married.
		But nothing happened to the son in the present era.
		The present era is speaking of the 70s.
		Huh.
		And they went back to the physicist.
		Okay, what's wrong?
		And what they came up with is a fairly good explanation, I believe.
		Namely, with quantum physics, you have to look at time also as being quantized.
		They said all you did was disturb the time quanta in the area you visited.
		You didn't disturb the time quanta in the period following.
		Therefore, you didn't change anything except in the area where you visited.
		And that is essentially true, so far as I understand it.
		But non-talk was a special case.
		There is a special case involved here, and I'll have to go into that in a little bit.
		Wherein, if you disturb not one reality, but you make changes in all seven realities that we know exist, then you have a different story and a different case.
		Montauk was capable of doing this.
		When I was sent back to 1927, my first memory, quite aside from the birth certificate, and how they arranged this, I don't know, but my first memory was in Christmas of 1927, sitting on Mother's grand piano, a little tight, next to the Christmas tree sitting on that piano
		and the family and friends were around exchanging Christmas presents.
		One of the strange things about it was at an age of essentially one
		I understood virtually all the conversation that was ongoing there
		around that piano with the various people.
		There were blankouts in certain areas.
		I understood the language long before I was willing to talk.
		And as I grew up I knew nothing of my past.
		I had fleeting memories during my teen years of other things, and I had no idea what they were, and they would blank out.
		When I went in the Navy a second time as Al Bailick in 1945, during World War II, and came out in 1946, I was again in electronics, but only as a seaman, a petty officer.
		Ranked, not an officer.
		I knew when I came back in late 1946 or 1947 that I didn't belong in that family, but that was just a gut feeling.
		I had no other reason to believe that.
		I went up through the years, went to school, became an engineer, a consulting engineer from 1958 to 1988, and retired in 1988.
		During that period I met a lot of people.
		I had an extremely strong interest in the whole Philadelphia experiment, philosophy, ideas, the stories that were written and told about.
		I didn't know why I was so fascinated by it until I saw that movie in 1988 in January.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So it was kind of on the edge of reality for you at that point?
al bielek ▲ ● ▼		That is a good way to put it.
		Now, one other thing happened, of course, during that period of time.
		I met Ivan Sanderson.
		He had a great interest in the subject.
		He tried to get information out of the Navy.
		In spite of the fact that he had been a former intelligence officer in the British Intelligence Service and had good connections with the Navy, they wouldn't tell him anything, either.
		He died in 1973.
		During this period I became involved with a group called the United States Psychotronics
		Association and in 1983 at one of their meetings in Portland, Oregon I met Preston Nichols.
		In 1985 at their meeting in Dayton, Ohio he brought with him his new lab assistant because
		he not only worked full time, he had his own private lab, Duncan Cameron.
		I didn't know him from Adam at that point.
		In the course of that meeting, four days we were there, I talked with him at great length
		in the cafeteria and after about an hour of this discussion back and forth I finally got
		this funny gut feeling I knew him from somewhere.
		And I finally asked him, he says, hey, do you have a feeling you know me from somewhere?
		He says, yeah.
		Do you have any idea where from?
		He says, I don't have the slightest idea.
		But I know I know you from somewhere.
		And I had the same feeling.
		Well, before the convention broke up, Preston had invited me to visit him at his lab in Long Island at some time in the future.
		And I did a month later in August when my job as a consultant ended that I was on.
		And, uh, he took us out to Montauk, uh, after it was there, expecting to be a week, and it was two weeks.
		Montauk, Long Island, I see this derelict base where we walked on, saw all this old electronic equipment lying around in the buildings in various places, and an abandoned base.
		Fences were downed.
		It was obviously a military installation.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Right.
al bielek ▲ ● ▼		We did not know, including Preston, that we had all been involved previously in this project which crashed on the night of 12 August 1983.
		Remember, it's day 12 August.
		Eventually, in 86, with another visit back there, and Preston and Duncan with many visits from me in the meantime, visiting the site of the crime, so to speak, does tend to re-stimulate buried subconscious memories.
unidentified		Absolutely.
al bielek ▲ ● ▼		And they came back with the memories that they had been involved, and Duncan kept saying, you were involved, and I said, I don't have any memory of this.
al bielek ▲ ● ▼		I said, I can't say I wasn't, but I said, I have no memory of it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Boy, how odd.
al bielek ▲ ● ▼		So, in May of 86, I went back out there, with a crew from Phoenix who I talked about this project to,
		to make a major investigation of the possibility of monies being subverted by private industry into a special
		government project, and they wanted proof of it, and they went through Montauk.
		Well, they didn't find what they wanted, but nevertheless, in the process of that visit,
		my memory started to come back one afternoon that I had been involved in this project.
		Detailed memories, and they kept expanding from that point on.
		But this was prior to the recall of the Philadelphia Experiment involvement.
		As I'll be alike, I was involved in this project very heavily for many years.
		I don't know how many, but there was leakage of information from a retired, or shall I say, resigned CIA agent to Preston that I was involved in 1953 to 83 because they kept me undercover for 30 years.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, listen now.
		I've got to take a break here and get a couple things done.
		And we've got to start taking phone calls here.
		Every line is lit up and has been for a long time.
		Stay right where you are and we'll be right back to you, Al Belick.
		the philadelphia experiment and uh... more will be back without the look
		and your telephone calls us.
		about the Philadelphia experiment.
unidentified		We continue with your calls to the Kingdom of Nine and Coast to Coast AM with Art Bell.
unidentified		Now here again, is Art.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, we're just about to get underway with your calls, actually.
		to albilik. First I've got a couple of things that I've got to get done.
		We've got a whole bunch of questions for albilik, many of them faxed in and I'll try to fit in some of these
		questions as we go along.
		Back now to Atlanta, Georgia, and to Al Bielek.
		Al, are you there?
al bielek ▲ ● ▼		Yes, I am.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, here's one quick one for you, Al.
		It is my understanding, from reading both books on the Montauk Project, that in order to get to a certain place in time, it took a psychic sitting in the Montauk chair, concentrating on the desired place in time.
		How did Dr. Von Neumann target the Montauk Project and send you there with the early 40s technology, assuming that he wasn't already using the technology described in the Montauk books?
		Thanks, that's Michael in Seattle.
al bielek ▲ ● ▼		That's a very good question.
		I can't answer that fully because I certainly was not a Von Neumann myself.
		But he developed the time machine that was used, and whatever the means was, he did get me reconnected with Montauk.
		Could be there was an automatic attraction and I can only assume that.
		I don't know the exact mechanics but I did go back to Montauk more than once and he was satisfied and that project was discontinued and he went on of course with the Los Alamos project as well as other projects he was working on during the war years.
		I do not know exactly why I wound up back there but I did.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
		What I want to do now, Al, is open up the telephone lines and begin to actually let you talk to some of the people out there.
		Are you up for it?
al bielek ▲ ● ▼		Sure.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, then.
		Here are the phone numbers very quickly, everybody.
		If you're a first-time caller to the program or east of the Rockies, it is area code 702-727-1222.
		Let me repeat that.
		727-1222. Let me repeat that. Area code 702-727-1222. The wildcard lines are area code 727-1222.
		The wildcard lines are area code 727-1222.
		And the toll-free line is 1-800-618-8255, 1-800-618-8255.
		And now, um, Al, if you're ready, let's try a few calls.
		Okay.
		Alright, on the wildcard line, you're on the air with Al Belick.
		six one eight eight two five five one eight hundred six one eight
		eight two five five and now uh... al if you're ready let's try a few calls okay
		all right on the wild card line you're on the air without be like good morning where you
unidentified		calling from please uh... charlie uh... liberal california or he's uh...
		Let me just say that you've had some very extreme guests.
		The guy who thought there were pyramids on Mars, and the guy who wanted to build an island and name it after his own country.
		But this guy really takes the cake.
		First of all, isn't it a fact that the reason that you've made up all these outlandish stories about Eight people being brought back from age to age twelve and time travel.
		Isn't it a fact that you've made up these stories simply to make fast money for yourself?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Alright, that's a good question.
		Thank you.
		That's it.
al bielek ▲ ● ▼		What about the profit?
		I can say this much, that there is no money really to be made in going on the air and doing these things or going around in public lectures.
		I'm living on retirement, and not from the Navy.
		It's from Social Security.
		And the amount of additional monies I get is a pittance by comparison.
		I'm not living high on the hog.
		I'm living very low on the hog, if you will.
		I'm making up the stories.
		It's your opinion if you wish.
		That's your opinion.
		But there are plenty of people around that know these facts, including technical people, people still working in certain laboratories.
		I've talked with personally and verified many details of these facts of the Philadelphia experiment and the equipment that
		were built and what happened.
		There are other people that are still working in the government, whom I know, I cannot name
		names, that verified all of these things and there is no question whatever in the mind
		of those who have done enough research that this actually happened, both projects.
		In fact, so far as Montauk project is concerned, all they have to do is go out to the Montauk
		Long Island Point and you can see the abandoned base for yourself.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Alright, here's a question from Las Vegas by Faxel.
		Please ask Al Bielek about the nuclear bomb which was sent into the future and detonated.
		Does Al know what time frame it ended up in?
al bielek ▲ ● ▼		Well, that is a new one on me.
		A nuclear bomb sent into the future.
		Of course, we had nuclear weapons in that time period of the 40s onward, 45 onward.
		It could have been one sent through the Montauk Project.
		I do not know if one ever was.
		I have no knowledge of this, so I can't really answer the question.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
		Fair enough.
		On our toll-free line, top of the morning, you're on the air with Al Bielek.
		Hello there.
unidentified		Hi.
unidentified		I turned on my radio.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, turn it off.
		Don't just turn it down.
		Turn it all the way off, please.
		We're talking with Al Bielek, who was in the Philadelphia experiment.
		Caller, where are you calling from, please?
		I'm calling from Eugene, Oregon.
unidentified		I'm curious, what's the difference between invisibility and time travel?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		all right uh... that actually is a pretty good question now what what do
al bielek ▲ ● ▼		you have to say okay and visibility in terms of techniques that are used
		now because i did not mention the fact that
		in nineteen forty seven a project was resurrected at the request of the navy
		and john von neumann eventually did solve the problems in nineteen fifty
		I was not around for it, and I don't know what techniques he used.
		Invisibility is a standard technique today called cloaking, available for the Navy fighter aircraft, the B-1 bomber, the B-2 bomber, Israeli aircraft, and others.
		Involves techniques which are probably highly evolved from the original Philadelphia experiment and perhaps different The difference between invisibility is basically you are making an object invisible by cloaking it To any reflected energy in other words if you have no energy light or radar or whatever Reflected from an object you can't see it.
		It's still there, but you can't see it Time travel, the object moves out of your time frame.
		It's physically gone from where you are.
		That is the basic difference.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, I've got a big question myself for you, Al.
		Okay.
		Time travel has always fascinated me, probably more than any other subject, and here's the question.
		If I were to come to you, Al, and I were to say, look, I have nearly unlimited resources, certainly enough to be able to try and duplicate the project you've talked about, I want to experiment with time travel.
		Do you have enough technical knowledge to assist in building the equipment that it would take to do it again?
al bielek ▲ ● ▼		I would not be able to do that fully at this time, no, because much of that technical expertise that I knew well in the forties, as Ed Cameron has said, has not all come back.
al bielek ▲ ● ▼		The basic theory I understand, the more precise mathematics, the more Fine details, the finesse, if you will, of how to build that equipment is largely lost.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Alright, and this is speculative then, Al.
		If we had somebody who could put together the technical aspect of it, and there was enough money to do it, and you had an opportunity to be part of it, would you run away from it or run to it?
		In other words, would you become involved again or not?
al bielek ▲ ● ▼		Yes, good question.
		As far as time travel is concerned, I would probably become involved again.
		I would be very much interested in it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Some people never learn, do they?
		All right, let's take some more calls.
		On the first time caller line, you're on the air with Al Belick.
unidentified		Yes, KFBN, Spokane.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Spokane, Washington.
		All right, you're going to have to speak up nice and loud.
		You're hard to hear.
unidentified		Okay.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Go ahead.
unidentified		Yes, Al.
		He traveled through time and he had connections with certain government officials.
		Can you verify the Roswell, New Mexico incident and whether alien beings?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, thank you.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Do you know anything about other things like Roswell, Al?
al bielek ▲ ● ▼		Yes, I was not part of that directly, but I have read a considerable amount of material.
		There's ongoing research today, and I know from reading some of the English source material that the people involved, other than The director appointed by the President Truman at that time, who was Vannevar Bush, his chief scientific advisor, included people like Dr. John von Neumann and a number of other people from Harvard and elsewhere who were a scientific team to evaluate what was there and what had come down.
		It's quite well documented now, even though the government still wants to deny it.
		They cannot anymore completely, because a lot of evidence has turned up of a lot of people who were directly involved at that time when I was speaking out in the last five years.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay.
		Well, here's another question for you.
		This one from Tri-Cities, Washington.
		Did Al go back to the Phoenix Project in 1983 after reliving the preceding years, and if not, why?
		If so, what did he find himself?
		That's from, let me see, Sean in Tri-Cities, Washington.
al bielek ▲ ● ▼		Okay.
		I became part of the Phoenix Project Montauk, if you want to call it that, sometime in the 60s or the 70s because it was part of an ongoing project which started in 1947 under the umbrella entitled Project Phoenix.
		I became involved sometime in that period of the 60s and 70s and directly in the Montauk operation about 1975 as far as I can now estimate.
		I was there as Al Belick and was used as an engineer because I had been an electronic engineer for many years even though retired.
		My expertise was apparently used in some phases there, particularly power supply design.
		Other people I know were involved, but that's not the question that was asked.
		Now I went there in 1983 and the last day with Duncan as Edward Cameron and Duncan Cameron because of the Eldridge incident.
		And at the time of the last two days, three days of the project before it crashed in August 1283, I, as Al Belick, was removed from the project and told to go take a hike.
		In other words, take a vacation.
		They did not want me there when I arrived as Ed Cameron.
		And the project crashed.
		It's a long story in itself.
		It's covered in the Montauk Project book by Preston Nichols.
		The factors involved in that are very involved, but the project was basically sabotaged and
		crashed.
		I was no longer attached to it.
		I am no longer attached to it.
		The project has been revived since.
		In fact, as we have found out in recent months, it never really died.
		They just left it dead on the surface and let it appear to be dead while they spent four years rebuilding and redesigning the project underground and added two more levels to the underground.
		There were six levels originally.
		There are now eight levels underground at Montauk Point.
		The bottom two levels extend for miles.
		They did resurrect the project and went back online in 1987 for apparently new usages and purposes.
		We don't yet know the whole story.
		And the power output was up fantastically from the levels which they were using in the 80s.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		What do you think they're presently utilizing time travel for, Al?
al bielek ▲ ● ▼		Presently, time travel has been used for looking into the future to see, in terms of politics, what's going to happen, in terms of economics, what may happen, but more specifically in terms of earth changes, which everyone who's looked at has been predicting, and I don't mean psychics, But even geologists are looking at it and realizing we're due for some very nasty earth changes.
al bielek ▲ ● ▼		They're all looking into the future to see what is going to happen and what does happen.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, I'm still trying to figure out what's going to happen with whitewater.
		Alright, let's go back to the phones quickly.
		On the wildcard line, you're on the air with Al Belick.
		Hello.
unidentified		Hello, I think I've got it figured out, Art.
unidentified		We're going to send Charlie back into time to the outreach, hopefully enmeshed in the bulkhead.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Boy, I'll tell you, there's an idea.
		Welcome to the program.
		Where are you calling from?
unidentified		This is Mike in Renton, Washington, KBI country.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Good, Mike.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Do you have a question?
unidentified		Yes, sir, I do.
		Mr. Bailey, I heard you before when you were here in Seattle, I guess, on Journeys with Brenda Roberts.
		Yes.
		Her husband has passed away since then, by the way.
al bielek ▲ ● ▼		Yes, I know.
unidentified		Anyway, I wanted to ask you, I heard Preston also, and as I remember the story, it seemed like, I think I heard this from Preston now, that there was some kind of machine or computer at Montauk that they tried to secure the power to, but apparently the computer or machine wouldn't allow that to be done.
al bielek ▲ ● ▼		The whole system at Montauk on the last day there, Developed its own strange capability.
		When they knew things were going awry, when this monstrosity that looked like a Sasquatch was tramping around the grounds in the last hours, picking up people and throwing them against concrete walls and trying to break into the radar tower itself, they knew they had to shut the whole system down.
		First they went for the power switches.
		They were frozen like on the Eldridge.
		Then they went and cut cables underground with torches.
		Two sets of power feed cables, and even though the lights went out, the transmitter kept running.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Al, I want to ask you a question.
		Stop you right there, because I wanted to ask it the last time.
		Okay.
		When the switches became frozen, and when there were arcs going on that you described of incredible voltage, that implies that a source outside your source was feeding power almost wildly Uh, to this equipment, keeping it going.
		Any idea what that source is?
al bielek ▲ ● ▼		At the time that that occurred on the Eldridge, there was no source internally there which could have caused that problem.
		We had probably already made the transition into hyperspace, and when you make that transition, strange things happen.
		It probably was not normal electricity, but a form of etheric energy, which appears like electrical energy.
		And the switch is being frozen, we cannot explain.
		Not to this day.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, we'll hold it there.
unidentified		Any little green guys, Al?
		Little green guys, big green guys.
		There were a lot of aliens there.
		Could you see aliens at Montauk?
		I heard that they were involved with the time travel experiment.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Any little green guys, Al?
al bielek ▲ ● ▼		Little green guys, big green guys.
		There were a lot of aliens there, reptilians, lebrons, greys and a number of other types
		who were there strictly as observers.
		There was a lot of technology, very advanced technology on how to construct a time tunnel,
		which means to be able to travel through space and time simultaneously was beyond our technology
		in terms of the theory.
		That was provided by the aliens.
		It was a joint operation known by those who were running the project.
		They provided part of the technology.
		They knew we could build the equipment, but they knew we did not know the theory, and they gave it to us.
		The reason they did it was because they had their own agenda, which was used on the Montauk Project.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You're getting into so many more aspects of this whole story this time, Al, that you did not get into last time, and my mouth is hanging open.
		We're going to take a break.
		We'll come right back to you.
		This is Al Belick.
		it is the philadelphia story back now to albeit like
		Al, are you there?
al bielek ▲ ● ▼		Yes, ma'am.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, good.
		We've only got a few minutes before the top of the hour.
		Next hour, we'll absolutely take a lot of calls.
		Let's go to the wild card line.
		You're on the air with Al Belick.
unidentified		Hello.
unidentified		Hello, Art.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, sir.
unidentified		This is Charlie up in Reno again.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Hello, Charlie in Reno.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Hello.
unidentified		Yes.
		I'm the one that sent you the tape several months ago about the other stealth ship?
		Yes.
		I've been just fascinated with the show tonight, and I've got a couple questions.
		To Mr. Bellick?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
unidentified		About the rotating field on the transmitters?
		If you were to cross south of the equator, would the rotating field need to go clockwise instead of counterclockwise?
		I know it sounds a little stupid, but... No, it doesn't.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It does not sound stupid.
		It does not sound stupid.
		I'll tell you what I'm going to do.
		We are so woefully short of time here.
		Toward the top of the hour that I'm going to ask you, is it possible for you to hold on, sir?
unidentified		Sure.
unidentified		I'll hold.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, very good.
		Then hold on.
		I really shouldn't have gotten into that.
		Let me put you on hold, and we'll get back to you in a moment.
		Only time to tell you, if you want a copy of this program, and it's been going on now for three hours without Bilek, here's how to get it.
		Are you ready?
		Do you have a pencil?
		Because I want to get this number out, because I'm going to be driven nuts if I don't.
		To order copies of this tape 24 hours a day, you can call Area Code 503-664-7966.
		Let me repeat that.
		Area Code 503-664-7966.
		6647966 Let me repeat that. Area code 503
		6647966 It's good 24 hours a day. And we'll be back with Al Belick
		and more of the Philadelphia Experiment in just a moment.
unidentified		We'll be right back.
		Al Belick's Experiment To talk with Al Belick.
		First time callers, dial 702-727-1222.
		702-727-1222.
		This is Coast to Coast AM on the CBC Radio Network.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And I'm Art Bell.
		Good morning, everybody.
		My guest is Al Belick, and we'll be back to him in just a moment.
		A couple of items.
		Boy, I'll tell you, the faxes are just pouring in.
		The questions, we'll never get to all of them, but we'll try and get to as many as we can this hour.
		Everybody wants to know, including the people over at Safety First, who are going to order one, how to order a tape of this program.
		The number to call, again, is Area Code, and you can call now, 24 hours a day, and order a tape.
		Area Code 503-664-7966.
		That will include the first two hours, not heard everywhere, with a lot of the technical explanation of how this occurred.
		Area code 503-664-7966.
		And, uh, first of all, I guess, back to Al Belick.
		Al, are you there?
al bielek ▲ ● ▼		Yes, I am.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Good.
		Um, they ask, I've got a fax here, Al, just before we go back to our caller who's waiting.
		Please give out the post office box an address to get in contact with you, Al, just in case we can't get a hold of your book.
		Also, please let me know why they decided to keep you alive.
		So I guess first things first, what is the address?
		Do you have it yet?
al bielek ▲ ● ▼		Yep.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay, go ahead.
al bielek ▲ ● ▼		Post Office Box 671091, Marietta, Georgia.
		That's M-A-R-I-E-T-T-A, Georgia.
		And the zip is... I'm trying to read it down here.
		Hang on a second.
		It is 3-0-0-6-6.
		3-0-0-6-6.
		Correct.
		And that's Al Bielek, B as in Bob, I-E-L-E-K.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay, very good.
		Back now to the caller who has been waiting, hopefully.
		Are you there, sir?
unidentified		Yes, I am.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, good.
		Now, Al's right here.
		Go ahead and redo your question.
unidentified		Hey, yes, Al.
al bielek ▲ ● ▼		Yeah.
unidentified		Good morning.
		Good morning.
		I was wondering, when you were talking earlier about the fields on the antenna, Yes.
		We're rotating counterclockwise?
		Yes.
		I was wondering, if you was to take the ship and go south of the equator, would the fields have to rotate clockwise in order to achieve the same effect?
al bielek ▲ ● ▼		Basically, that is probably true because you have a different field effect in the southern hemisphere in terms of magnetic fields.
		I don't know if you're familiar with the block wall phenomena.
		The magnetic fields of the Earth, like in a bar magnet, do not run straight from North Pole to South Pole.
		There is an intermediary point where they do a transposition number, and the North Pole field is not the same as the South Pole field.
		They are independent, but that's a very long and difficult explanation, and the theory on this can be proven.
		There have been books published on it.
		This is not what they teach in the textbooks.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, and now, why did they leave you alive, Al?
al bielek ▲ ● ▼		Okay, they had to leave me alive, as well as Duncan, they had to resurrect him, so to speak, for a simple reason.
		We had gone through the entire time loop, and one of the gentlemen who worked on this project, Dr. Norman Levinson, who has four or five books out in mathematics, he was a professor of math at MIT, died in 76, if I remember correctly.
		Uh, he showed in the classified work he did, which was the time equations and the time matrix, that when you rip a hole in spacetime, which is what occurred when they locked up the two experiments from 43 to 83 on the 12th of August.
		The 12th of August is significant.
		I'll get into that in a minute.
		But when you do that, you tear a hole in spacetime and the fabric of spacetime, you create a problem If those who are familiar with electrical theory and know about transmission of RF energy down a transmission line, you must terminate that line and its proper impedance at the end where you are attempting to ship power.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's right.
al bielek ▲ ● ▼		If you do not have the correct terminating impedance, you get reflections back to the source.
unidentified		Absolutely.
al bielek ▲ ● ▼		Sustaining waves.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's correct, yes.
al bielek ▲ ● ▼		The same thing happens in time.
		You rip a hole in there.
		Uh, rupture as it is.
		You no longer have a smooth flow of time, because there is a flow.
		You have a definite problem, as many problems were created by that lockup.
		But one of the things that occurs is after 83, this equation shows that it takes 20 years for the disturbances to damp down to the point where they don't have to worry about it.
		In other words, in the year 2003, 12 August, it's essentially all over.
		For some reason, reasons not known to either Duncan and myself, and I don't know who, if anyone knows the answers, Duncan and I act as human dampers on the time trail, so to speak, to maintain a damping coefficient of some type so that the whole thing doesn't go off and rupture again.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
		Back to the telephone lines.
		And on our toll-free line, you're on the air with Al Belick.
		Good morning.
unidentified		Yes, sir.
unidentified		This is Dan Isdale from the U District in Seattle, KVI country.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, sir.
unidentified		By the way, did you get my message?
unidentified		I called into CBC Radio today to leave a message for you on how to get a hold of Sean Morton.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I don't have it yet, but I'm sure it'll get to me.
unidentified		Okay, he claims to have met Al.
al bielek ▲ ● ▼		That's true, he did.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		There you go, there's your confirmation.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Do you have a question?
unidentified		Yes, well, I've got naturally a million of them, but Al, it's good to hear you again.
		I heard for the first time, the last time you were on the show.
		You mentioned a book called The Conspirator's Hierarchy, the Committee of 300?
		Yes.
		And you also recommend that?
al bielek ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
		That was Dr. John Coleman's book.
		It's in the third edition now.
		I don't know if it's released yet, but he's expanded it by about 100 pages.
		It still sells for the same price of $20.
		But if you want a very thorough and concise rundown of the conspiracy worldwide for a one-world government, a very repressive one-world government, And who is involved and how long this has been going on, he has more source information than anyone I've ever seen.
		There are others who have talked about this and published on it, but I think he has more information in one book than anything I've ever seen anywhere.
		I do recommend the book.
unidentified		Also, I was wondering what your views are on the works of Michael Lindemann and also
		George Adamski.
		All right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Thank you very much for the call.
		And it's interesting.
		He should ask about Dr. Lindemann.
		I just had him on the air here.
al bielek ▲ ● ▼		Well, I happen to know Dr. Lindemann myself.
		He's from Santa Barbara.
		He's been doing a lot of very good work and exposé of the conspiracy.
		He's sort of a latecomer to it, but nevertheless, when I say latecomer, the last five years.
		He's done a great deal of homework, and he has had some excellent material.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, I am on a program called Area 2000 now, and I'm going to have him on again shortly on a program called Dreamland.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		He's a fascinating guy.
al bielek ▲ ● ▼		What was the other part of that question about Dr. Adamski?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
al bielek ▲ ● ▼		He has long left the moral coil, as they say.
		I met him personally many years ago in 1954 when I was first in California.
		He was a mysterious person.
		He made many claims, including having been on Flying Saucers, Flying Saucercraft, and speaking with Venetians, and all this sort of thing.
		I don't know how much credence to give to some of his claims, but he wrote a series of books, and he did have what appeared to be a considerable amount of knowledge of what was going on.
		He was one of the mysterious people from the past that I can't give a really concise answer on, other than to say he was at a stand on the foothills of Mount Palomar for many, many years.
		And had a lot of audience and a lot of interest.
		And I guess that's about the most I can say about him.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, that's sufficient.
		Back to the telephone lines.
		On the first time caller line, you're on the air with Al Belick.
		Good morning.
unidentified		Good morning.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Where are you calling from, sir?
unidentified		Sioux Falls, South Dakota.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, go ahead.
unidentified		Yeah, this is Ron from Sioux Falls, South Dakota.
		And I was just wondering, have you ever spoke at any science fiction conventions?
		And if so, when?
al bielek ▲ ● ▼		I'm sorry, have I ever spoken at what convention?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		At any science fiction convention.
al bielek ▲ ● ▼		Not science fiction conventions, no.
al bielek ▲ ● ▼		I've been at many UFO conventions, the Preparedness Expo, UFO Expo West, Whole Life Expo, and a number of conventions across the country, including two in Canada.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		How's that, Kohler?
unidentified		Okay, I think that would fascinate some of the people in the science fiction genre.
unidentified		Uh, to kind of open them up and make them think a little bit more than some of the stuff that's available to us today.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
		Well, good point, I suppose.
		And I'll bet you'll be asked one of these days, Al.
al bielek ▲ ● ▼		Could be.
al bielek ▲ ● ▼		I know some of what I've talked about probably is wilder than some of the science fiction you've talked about and there are other people that talked about or have read.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		There's absolutely no question about it.
		It's really wild.
		Wild Card Line, you're on the air with Al Belick.
		Good morning.
		Where are you calling from, please?
unidentified		Seattle, Washington.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Seattle, all right, go ahead.
unidentified		Yes, Al, when you were put through age regression to the age of one, how old were you as the adult Edward Cameron and what year was that?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay, how old were you as the adult Cameron and what year was that, Al?
al bielek ▲ ● ▼		That was in 1947.
al bielek ▲ ● ▼		In 1947 I was almost 31 when I was pulled out and they gave me the nine yards of the
art bell ▲ ● ▼		treatment.
		Wild Card Line 2, you're on the air with Al Belick.
		Good morning.
unidentified		Hi Art.
unidentified		Hi Al.
al bielek ▲ ● ▼		Howdy.
unidentified		I have a question.
unidentified		If the government is using physical aid for correction, then have they used it in outer space travel?
al bielek ▲ ● ▼		That I don't know.
		It's an interesting point of thought.
		They could, perhaps.
		But one of the other things, and I know what you were talking about, why you're asking that question, The problem with space travel is postulated by standard physics as it's going to take years and years and centuries to get to some locations, but that's not entirely true.
		In hyperspace travel, you're traveling at much faster than the speed of light.
		In Einstein's equations, nonetheless, you can do it, and it has been done and is being done by aliens and also with some of the craft that our government has built in the more recent years.
		The age regression problem It's not really required, and if you look at some of the equations and the contraction, Lorentz contraction equations and others, as you go at a higher speed, the speed of travel affects the body to an extent so that you don't age as rapidly as you would if you were sitting on Earth.
unidentified		Yes.
unidentified		Are you still affiliated with any branch of the government?
al bielek ▲ ● ▼		No.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
		Thank you for the call.
		You're not any part of the government now?
unidentified		Nope.
al bielek ▲ ● ▼		I have not been for many, many years.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Has anybody from the government approached you?
al bielek ▲ ● ▼		Not directly.
al bielek ▲ ● ▼		No one has.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
al bielek ▲ ● ▼		The last connection I had was with 1983 with the Montauk Project.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
		On the toll-free line, you're on the air with Al Belick.
		Good morning.
		Good morning.
unidentified		I have a question to ask Al.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Where are you calling from?
unidentified		I'm calling from Greeley, Colorado.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Greeley, Colorado.
unidentified		Okay.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Go ahead.
unidentified		Just wondering what Al thinks about Carlos Allende, better known as Carl Allen.
		Right.
		And how come he hadn't come forward over the 30 years that Carlos was running around telling everybody this happened?
al bielek ▲ ● ▼		That's a good question.
		Carl Allen, whom I do remember from the Navy days as Edward Cameron, was a naval officer.
		He was on the S.S.
		Purius, as an observer, placed there by the Navy.
		And he was also a physicist.
		Actually, he was, I believe, a Ph.D.
		in physics, and he was part of the bomb project at Los Alamos.
		And he retired out of the Navy, and then he led a very strange life as a recluse, and still is, and he is alive today.
unidentified		No, he passed away.
		He did?
		Yeah, he passed away this week.
		This week?
		In fact, we just buried him Thursday here in Greeley.
al bielek ▲ ● ▼		I'm very sorry to hear that.
		So were we.
		As I had talked with him on the phone about, uh, last July when I was up in Colorado, and, uh, he was hoping I could make arrangements to come visit with him.
unidentified		Yeah, he was, uh, matter of fact, it was just this last week.
al bielek ▲ ● ▼		I am sorry to hear that.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, we both, that makes all of us then.
		Thank you very much, caller.
		So the number of people, Al, who can tell this story are dwindling.
al bielek ▲ ● ▼		Dwindling rapidly.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, then I'm very honored that you've told it to us.
		On the first time caller line, you're on the air with Al Belick.
		Good morning.
unidentified		Good morning.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Where are you calling from?
unidentified		Spokane, Washington.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay, KSBN.
unidentified		Mr. Belick, my question for you is simply this.
		In 1947, If you were aged to regress to the age of one and sent to 1916 to live your life over again as Al Belick, wasn't Ed Cameron at the same time involved in the Philadelphia Experiment?
		That's quite true.
		I was separated in space as well as in the time period.
al bielek ▲ ● ▼		I actually did live parallel for 20 years, from 1927 to 1947.
		One is Ed Cameron and the other is Al Belick, and I'm sure there was somebody in the government who made sure that the two didn't cross.
		As I, as Al Belick, knew nothing about Edward Cameron until 1988.
		And even though I was in the Navy during the same period, part of the same period, as Al Belick only 45 and 46, I was in electronics, I knew nothing of the other project that was ongoing until late 1943.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So the answer is there was some consecutive time trotting around on Earth, caller?
al bielek ▲ ● ▼		That's right, 20 years of it.
unidentified		And that would not cause no ripples in time as you've indicated?
al bielek ▲ ● ▼		It would not cause any ripples if you did not meet.
		And being as I was not, would not if I had met, would not be albulic meeting albulic, would be albulic meeting Ed Cameron.
		I would question whether there would be a serious problem.
		Theory of time says you don't.
		You can avoid assiduously meeting yourself in a time loop because it could cause great disturbances.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, caller.
		We've got a hold of there.
		Thank you very much for the call.
		I'll hold on just a moment.
		We'll be right back to you.
		Al Belick is my guest.
		incredibly uh... fascinating stuff Back now.
		To Al Belick, all the way in Atlanta, Georgia, of all places.
		Al, are you there?
al bielek ▲ ● ▼		Yes, I am.
unidentified		Good.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Let's go back to the telephones and take questions as we can.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		On the wild card line, you're on the air with Al Belick.
unidentified		Mr. Belick, how do you get in?
		Yeah, I am, to be honest and respectful, I am a skeptic.
		I'm a reasonable skeptic.
		I would like to know how, and I did miss the first two hours, so forgive me, but I would like to know How it was possible, in your view, that 40s technology using electromagnetics could cause invisibility, given the structure of matter, where such a thing... How did electromagnetism... You're absolutely right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You should not have missed the first two hours.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		They went through the technical explanation, but maybe we can get Al to give you a short, quick version.
al bielek ▲ ● ▼		Well, if you...
		Understand any of the math that was done by David Hilbert, by John von Neumann, and, of course, Einstein.
		You would understand that we're living in a five-dimensional universe.
		The three physical dimensions we're all familiar with.
		The fourth dimension is time, but in terms of expressions of time, mathematically, it's T1.
		There's another vector with right angles to the main time vector, which is the one we measure with the clock, and so forth.
		Which actually controls it.
		It's higher order.
		It's a fifth dimension.
		And by manipulating T2, the fifth dimension, you can control the fourth dimension within a limited area.
		And of course, we're only concerned with a limited area, namely the special fields which were put around the ship or whatever object you're trying to make invisible.
		The techniques that we're using then were somewhat crude.
		They were of very high power.
		And they got into a lot of problems because of it.
		Basically, it was a time manipulation to produce invisibility.
		If you produce a field wherein light or electromagnetic energy is not reflected, there's no return energy.
		You can't see it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So it becomes invisible to the eye and to radar?
al bielek ▲ ● ▼		Right, even to a camera.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
		We're so short on time.
		On the wildcard line, you're on the air with Al Bielek.
unidentified		Hello.
unidentified		Hey.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, sir.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Where are you calling from?
unidentified		I heard you mention the conspirators hierarchy and I was wondering if you were aware that a number of his associates are doing prison time in Virginia now from 10 to 77 years.
		I heard you mention the conspirators hierarchy and I was wondering if you were aware that
		a number of his associates are doing prison time in Virginia now for 10 to 77 years.
al bielek ▲ ● ▼		Yes and Lyndon himself is still in prison.
unidentified		Al, what do you know about these black helicopters?
al bielek ▲ ● ▼		Anything?
		did i believe he did recently get out yes okay you know they were not too happy with some of his uh...
		political exposés and uh...
		that seems to be uh... one of the little problems in this country at this time
		freedom of speech is somewhat abridged alright caller thank you al what do you know about these
art bell ▲ ● ▼		black helicopters anything
art bell ▲ ● ▼		a lot of talk about yes
al bielek ▲ ● ▼		they're all over the nation They're under army control, but there's also a special group I've heard the initials of, which actually is administrative control of all the black helicopters, and they are a multinational force now.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Actually, I think now it's a multi-jurisdictional force.
al bielek ▲ ● ▼		Right.
		And they can include foreign military personnel.
		They all wear the same uniform, without any ID name badges.
		There's no identification numbers on a black helicopter, so they can't trace where they came from.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Alright, hold that thought out.
		We'll be back to you in a moment.
		Bottom of the hour, last segment coming up from the high desert.
		You're listening to the CBC Radio Network.
unidentified		art bill in the kingdom of my toll-free 1-800-618-TALK.
		First time callers, 702-727-1222.
		702-727-1222.
		Or use the wildcard line at 702-727-1295.
		This is Coast to Coast AM on the CBC Radio Network.
		First time callers, 702-727-1222.
		702-727-1222.
		Or use the wildcard line at 702-727-1295.
		This is Coast to Coast AM on the CBC Radio Network.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		My guest is Al Bilek.
		The story is that of the Philadelphia Experiment.
		If you have a question, now's the time to come.
		We never have enough time.
		That's certainly true this morning, but it has been a comprehensive look at the Philadelphia Experiment and more.
		Back now to Al Belick.
		Al, in Atlanta, Georgia, are you there?
		Yes.
unidentified		Good.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
		I want to just get right back to the phones, Al, and give them as much a chance as possible to ask you questions.
		Okay.
		On our toll-free line, you're on the air with Al Belick.
		Hi, where are you calling from, please?
unidentified		Art, I'm calling from Hawaii.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Hawaii.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Where in Hawaii are you?
unidentified		I'm in IAEA.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay, welcome to the program.
unidentified		Thank you.
		If I could, I'd like to take Mr. Belick back to the roots of this technology and ask for a comment or an opinion about something that I have found out about Dr. Tesla and a question for Art after that.
		All right, what about it?
		From what I've been able to read about Dr. Nikola Tesla, he had the uncanny ability of being able to have such powers of visualization that he didn't need blueprints, he didn't need plans.
		He could visualize in his mind all the inventions and there were quite a few in varied fields in his mind and it worked perfectly.
		He was able to, in his early days, with his early inventions, he scooped the guy with the lightbulb in USA, Edison, in a lot of his inventions.
		Yes, and a lot of his inventions.
		And what I was wondering is, could you comment on your thoughts and feelings if he had remained
		alive to develop his theory instead of going to Pulse?
		Would they have converged or would they have been buried?
		We would have had, maybe not the tyranny of the government behind this, but maybe some light behind some alternate theories.
al bielek ▲ ● ▼		Well, it's an interesting question.
		Tesla, of course.
		got into trouble right after the turn of the century when he proposed free energy at that
		time for the people from the masses without the massive generating systems and of course
		the whole power grid that developed well after that.
		But the financial interest, J.P. Morgan and others, were of course making huge sums of
		money off of generators and motors and the whole AC power system which he developed.
		They did not want to see a change like free power by putting an antenna in the air and
		another in the ground as J.P.
		Morgan once stated, and you can't put a meter on it.
		That was the basis of the philosophy.
		We can't meter it.
		How are we going to charge them for it?
		So he became, over a period of time, deliberately thrust into the position of being a non-entity, the word almost in the dictionary, and the only credit they gave him was the invention of the Tesla coil.
		He did develop and prove free energy.
		He did develop a particle beam weapon system, a death ray system in 3839.
		Allegedly, I've not been able to prove it, an anti-gravity system.
		Many advanced ideas.
		He was well known, better known in Europe than here, but the scientific fraternity knew him here very well.
		But he was a political non-entity, and it was an embarrassment, apparently, to certain other interests.
		He could have prevented Well, I certainly do.
		we have with air pollution today from the excessive use of fossil fuels and he wanted
		to do that.
		He warned about it, but he was not allowed to do it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Alright, very quickly because we're almost out of time.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Caller, did you have one other question?
unidentified		Well, I certainly do.
		I'm encouraged by having him speak well of Tesla because he was a dynamo genius in his
		own right.
		If he had lived, he could have taken it in numerous other directions.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Many people believe that.
		Thank you very much for the call.
		That's Hawaii and that certainly is true, had he lived.
		And on the second wild card line, you're on the air with Al Belick.
		Good morning.
unidentified		Yeah, good morning Art.
		Now it is Gary in Yucca Valley, California.
		Yes, go ahead.
		Yeah, I sent you a fax a few minutes ago so I'll just probably re-read what I was going
		to send you.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, what is it Gary?
unidentified		Well, what I want to know is if it's possible to physically age someone, mentally and physically,
		to age 29 and you say you still don't know people in the government that can do this
		or have knowledge of it, what I'm saying is put me in touch with them because I'm paralyzed
		from the chest down and I imagine I'd be well again.
		And so please, Art.
		Also, I'm not being sarcastic.
		Sign me up.
		Get me in touch with somebody who can do that, because I sure as hell would love to be 25 years old and able-bodied again.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, Gary.
		Thank you.
		And, Al, what about that?
		In other words, if that technology exists, is it still being used today?
al bielek ▲ ● ▼		So far as I know, it probably is.
		But this is one of the highly restricted government technologies, which is only used for their own.
		They don't want it out to the general public.
		That's really all I can say about it.
		It would be nice if it were available to more people, but if everybody availed themselves of it, nobody would ever die or age.
		No, we would have even worse problems than we have.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Now, so far you continue to age, so I can only presume if you had the ability to get in touch with anybody who could do it, you would have done it already.
al bielek ▲ ● ▼		That's for damn sure.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Alright, on our wild card line, you're on the air with Al Belick, good morning.
unidentified		Yes, Bart, I know you're trying to squeeze in as many calls as possible, and before you cut me off, could you please allow me to finish my question set to Al Belick?
al bielek ▲ ● ▼		Well, yes.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I'll try and let you finish.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You should just get to it.
unidentified		Okay.
		I was in the middle of a question earlier, and you cut me off.
		I didn't get to finish asking the question.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, all right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Finish it, please, quickly.
unidentified		I asked real quick about how old he was, and he was age-regressive.
		What I really wanted to find out was, what was the apparent situation to the Belick family when they just received a one-year-old baby?
		Was it an apparent adoption to everyone?
		and how old are you now al and how old would that would be and have been still
art bell ▲ ● ▼		alive all right does that conclude it
al bielek ▲ ● ▼		that that all right thank you only so far as the bailiff family was
		concerned i don't know no fully just how it was handled but i think it was a
		case of an adoption places on that
		was born to them actually and uh...
		was alleged to have died Four months before my legal mother died in a nursing home, she came up very blankly one day, staring at me and said, quote, the baby's dead, isn't it?
		Unquote.
		Since I was the only child.
		This means there was a memory in a legal mother's mind of another child who had died, which says I was an adopted replacement.
		And then everybody concerned was brainwashed and forgetting about it.
		Except before she died, she started to remember.
		That is probably the way it was done, is all I can say on that.
		As Ed Cameron, I was almost 31.
		I was born in 1927, according to the birth certificate, which means I would be 67 at the end of this month.
		But Ed, I lived as Ed Cameron on through in a linear fashion.
		Today I would be, as Ed Cameron, I would be of 77 going to 78.
		and that to lifetimes in series says i would be uh... somewhere around ninety
		seven if you put them on and and
		uh... indiana and the director of how old are you or into a uh... birth certificate nine sixty six almost
art bell ▲ ● ▼		sixty seven will sixty seven okay
		all right al i would like you to hold tight just a moment while i take my last
		commercial break and we'll be right back to you albeit with the philadelphia experiment
		you Back now to Al Belick and the Philadelphia Experiment.
		Al, are you there?
al bielek ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, let's take a few fast calls.
		On the wild card line, you're on the air with Al Belick.
		Hello.
unidentified		Hi, this is Ron from Delta, Washington.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, Ron.
unidentified		A question that concerns me about time travel, that is, as the Earth is going through space at basically hundreds of thousands of miles per hour, It does not have any effect in terms of time.
al bielek ▲ ● ▼		The whole thing is interlocked.
		Sure, the Earth is traveling through space, and so is the solar system, but this does not have a direct effect on time travel per se.
		You're only manipulating one of the dimensions, namely time.
		You do not affect the other three unless, of course, you develop a system where you can affect the other three simultaneously.
unidentified		Yeah, it seems like your position, you're left far behind if you're talking about many years away, you're very far behind in position.
unidentified		How do you come up with the positioning?
al bielek ▲ ● ▼		You're already moving with the earth and you don't cease to move with the earth.
al bielek ▲ ● ▼		To cease to move with the earth and be left behind would imply a change in physical location, a movement physically as well as in time.
unidentified		Yes, Mr. Bielek.
		also rotating then too?
		Here, the rotating will revolve...
al bielek ▲ ● ▼		If you do pure time travel, you do not have any relative effect upon your position on
art bell ▲ ● ▼		the area.
		All right, Culler.
		Thank you very much and have a good morning.
		And let me move on.
		Wild Card Line 1, you're on the air with Al Bielek.
		Good morning.
unidentified		Yes, Mr. Bielek, please correct me if I'm confusing you with someone else, but did I
		hear you speak several months back about concerning two Mars expeditions that you had had something
		to do with?
al bielek ▲ ● ▼		Yes, that's true, and that was in the Montauk Project.
unidentified		Okay, could you please speak a little of that, especially as to what, if anything, was found, and also the nature of the crafts that got people to Mars?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You bet, we'll ask about it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Caller, where are you from?
unidentified		Oh, sorry about that, Reno.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Reno, all right, KOH, which is going to become KKOH next week, and a big, big move to 50,000 watts on 780.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, Al, what can you tell us?
al bielek ▲ ● ▼		I did speak of that because the Mars colonies found entrances to what appeared to be an underground shield.
		radio communication indicated that they couldn't get into it.
		Montauk was contacted and with proper coordinates they sent a probe into the underground to
		find out what was there and they found an extensive cavern system which had at one time
		been inhabited.
		So after they sent a camera and it didn't disappear in rock, they sent several crews
		up and they found a lot of artifacts in the underground and this indicated there had been
		in an extensive civilization at one time on Mars and was still intact underground.
		The surface works had been largely eroded over 250,000 or so years.
		I was on two of those trips, perhaps more than two as I remember now, but two unauthorized ones with Duncan and myself and we had our wrists slapped after we got back from the second one and we were pulled off that project.
		How far that went afterwards I don't know, but it wasn't a very extensive exploration.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, that's incredible.
		All right, on our toll-free line, you're on the air with Al Belick.
		Hi, where are you calling from?
unidentified		Hi, I'm calling from California.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
unidentified		And I would like for Mr. Belick to explain what he means by the date of August 12, 1983.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, thank you.
al bielek ▲ ● ▼		Very important.
		That's a good point you brought that up.
		The problem of why the two projects locked up took us many years of research to find the answer to.
		And we finally did find it.
		The human body has biorhythms, three of them.
		We found that the, and the scientists found this eventually in the mid to late 80s, that the earth has its own biorhythms, four of them.
		And they all peak out, all four of them at one, you might say, massive peak point once every 20 years.
		And that date happens to be the 12th of August, 1912.
		23, 43, 63, 83, whatever.
		And this provided the synchronization for the two experiments to lock up.
		See, when the Eldridge ran a test on the 22nd of July, there was no lockup and there was no problem.
		Montauk was operating during that period.
		I don't know if they were on that specific day or not, uh, in 83, but nevertheless, Montauk had been operating for years.
		There was no lockup with any prior tests until the 12th of August.
		Had they conducted that test on the 14th or on the 10th, there I'm sure would have been no lock-up producing the movement into hyperspace.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Was that just good fortune at that point, Al, or did they know what they were doing?
al bielek ▲ ● ▼		No, somebody at Montauk knew what they were doing, and this was part of the alien agenda.
al bielek ▲ ● ▼		They wanted that lock-up to produce the rift in space-time to get large spaceships through to planet Earth with large numbers of aliens.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Wow.
al bielek ▲ ● ▼		The history of the alien invasion starts about 1947 in terms of large numbers of ships.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Alright, Wild Card Line 2, without a lot of time, you're on the air with Al Belick.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Where are you calling from, please?
unidentified		Uh, in the United Country Yard.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Uh, yes, in Bakersfield.
unidentified		Go ahead.
		Yes.
		Uh, how far back in time have you traveled?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		My show?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
al bielek ▲ ● ▼		Uh... No further back than, uh, the 1927 thing as Al Belick.
		What else may have been accomplished at Montauk?
		I still have not pulled all my memories on that.
		There were many projects going on I had no connection with, but we do know from data at Montauk that they were capable of going at least 100,000 years into the past, and it is said by those who worked on the project, a million years into the future.
		Perhaps they could go further.
		We don't know.
		They had a capability of going very far into the past or the future.
		I did not engage in any of those far out trips.
		Not to my knowledge.
unidentified		Had you ever altered the course of history?
al bielek ▲ ● ▼		I'm sorry, what?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, I got it.
		Thank you, ma'am.
		That's Baker Steele.
		Have you ever altered the course of history, was the question.
al bielek ▲ ● ▼		Not to my knowledge.
		I cannot say with absolute certainty I have not had some effect on it, but Montauk has had an effect on the future history.
		The lockup of the two experiments Yes, good morning.
		Arizona.
		Yes, it's a wonderful show.
		And the current use of Montauk is an attempt to change the future by stabilizing the Earth in its orbit.
		And it's another long story in itself.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I'll bet it is. There are so many.
		On the toll-free line, you're on the air with Al Bielek.
		Yes, good morning.
		Hello.
		Good morning. Where are you, ma'am?
		Arizona.
		Arizona.
unidentified		Yes, it's a wonderful show.
unidentified		And what I wanted to know was how do we communicate with the aliens?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, thank you.
		A lot of people want to know that one, Al.
		How do we communicate with them?
al bielek ▲ ● ▼		Well, that's a very good question.
al bielek ▲ ● ▼		I think the answer is more in the line of, we don't contact them, they contact us.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Don't call us, we'll call you.
al bielek ▲ ● ▼		Exactly.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Great.
al bielek ▲ ● ▼		Now, there are some people who are psychics who claim they can do it on command and on demand.
		Possibly so, but nevertheless, in the real physical sense, the aliens are Now, we're rather reticent to talk with too many humans.
		There has been a great deal of problems with the U.S.
		government, and we have our own Star Wars defense systems in place in orbit, and they have let orders out that anyone who comes closer than 250 miles to the surface of the Earth, unless they are invited, will be shot out of the sky.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		First time caller line, you're on the air with Al Belick.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Good morning.
unidentified		Good morning, Art.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Where are you, sir?
unidentified		I'm calling from San Luis Obispo, California.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, go ahead.
unidentified		Much earlier in the broadcast, Mr. Buick commented on the psychotronics, and I was wondering if he could expand upon that a little bit.
unidentified		Basically, what is it, and what it entails, and what sort of things do the sciences psychotronics study?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, thank you.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Psychotronics, what's it all about?
al bielek ▲ ● ▼		Psychotronics is basically the study of the science of the interaction of Mind with matter, more specifically electronic devices, and how they can interact with the mind using devices or devices interacting on the mind.
		And there is an organization, the United States Psychotronics Association, that has been in existence since 1975, specifically to study that aspect.
		And people who have worked in that field for years, men like T.G.
		Hieronymus, now deceased, were one of the heavy mainstays.
		And the work really goes back to an M.D.
		in San Francisco at the turn of the century who started out the whole business.
		But it's well developed in the civilian sector, but the government also has their own programs going, well covered, very well established, and very advanced.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, listen, Al, we're about out of time.
		You're a real piece of history, you are, and I would like to give everybody an opportunity
		to get your address, a place where they can contact you one more time.
al bielek ▲ ● ▼		Okay, then contact me at my post office box.
		That, again, is post office box 671-091, Marietta, Georgia.
		M-A-R-I-E-T-T-A, Georgia, 30066.
		And please allow a couple of weeks for a reply.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I bet you spend a lot of time answering correspondence, don't you?
al bielek ▲ ● ▼		I have spent a little time at it.
		And I was preferred, if you can, put in a phone number.
		You'll get a faster response that way.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Very good.
		Al, again, it has been a pleasure interviewing you.
		It is an incredible story, and if we get a chance, we'll come back and do it again.
al bielek ▲ ● ▼		OK.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You're going to get a lot of mail, Al.
al bielek ▲ ● ▼		OK.
al bielek ▲ ● ▼		And if I can talk with you off the air, I would like to.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
		I'm putting you on hold.
		Stand by.
		That's Al Belick.
		And I want to give out the number where you can get a copy of this tape.
		It's, I guess, the last thing I can do this morning that should help you out, because I know a lot of you did not hear all of it.
		The first two hours was a fascinating look into some of the technical details of how this was done.
		The number to get a tape of this program or any other program we do is area code 503-664-7966.
		That's a number you can actually call right now.
		They are there 24 hours a day.
		And if it's busy, please just keep trying.
		A lot of people are inquiring about copies of the program.
		Again, area code 5-0-3-6-6-4-7-9-6-6.
		To those stations that pick up now the first two hours of the show, you're in for a real treat.
		And the story will continue.
		For the rest of you, I'm sorry, we're out of time.
		Thank you all.
		It's been wonderful.
		I'll be here Sunday on Dreamland.
		And back Monday night, Tuesday morning with the syndicated program.

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