April 3, 1994 - Art Bell
02:07:45
Participants
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| Welcome to Dreamland, a program dedicated to an examination of areas in the human experience | ||
| not easily nor neatly put in a box. | ||
| Things seen at the edge of vision, awakening a part of the mind as yet not that, and yet things every bit as real as the air we breathe but don't see. | ||
| This is Dreamland. | ||
| Good evening, everybody. | ||
| Welcome to yet another Dreamland. | ||
| A very, very enjoyable series for me to do, as most of you know. | ||
| We barely made it, but I guess. | ||
| But we did. | ||
| And we've connected with Linda Howe, who is, believe it or not, at Philadelphia Airport, where I guess she just zoomed in. | ||
| And, uh, that was a nail-biter. | ||
| And our guest, of course, is going to be Bud Hopkins. | ||
| Been looking forward to this one. | ||
| UFO investigator, extraordinaire, author of Intruders and Missing Time. | ||
| So it should be, uh, to say the least, quite an evening. | ||
| I'm Art Bell. | ||
| This is a sort of an unusual program. | ||
| And if it is your first listen, I suggest you sit back in an armchair and prepare yourself, because this is some pretty fascinating stuff. | ||
| Now, all the way to Philadelphia, literally, I guess, at the airport, and Linda Howe. | ||
| And hi, Linda! | ||
| You're at the airport, actually. | ||
| Yeah, all right. | ||
| I'm in a relatively noisy phone booth out here. | ||
| I'm going to hope that we're going to be able to transmit all this well, and if you hear what sounds like the loudspeakers or the music of an airport behind me, that's because that's where I am. | ||
| Understandable. | ||
| I was in Eureka Springs this weekend at the Eureka Springs conference that discusses the large complex UFO phenomenon. | ||
| One of the guests Who spoke for the first time in 28 years about his experiences as a television producer and writer in 1972 to 74 with the Department of Defense, working on a documentary called UFOs Past, Present and Future, was Robert Emenager. | ||
| In my new book, Glimpses of Other Realities, I show a drawing that he used in the first edition of the book when it was published in 1974 and was never published again after that. | ||
| And he explained to me some time back, and I'm going to play an excerpt actually with more details here in a minute, that this drawing was made in the presence of Department of Defense officials Who had the photograph and 16mm film taken from two cameras at Holloman Air Force Base in May of 1971, when there was what appeared to be a pre-arranged landing at Holloman Air Force Base in the White Sands Missile Range area. | ||
| And what I'm going to play for you right now is an excerpt of his telling, really, for the first time, the blow-by-blow, as he understands what happened. | ||
| Alright, Linda, let me ask, are you able to hear me, Linda? | ||
| Yes. | ||
| Did you say a pre-arranged landing? | ||
| Yeah, it assumes, it implies that there were some communication. | ||
| Alright, very good. | ||
| This should be an interesting report. | ||
| Go ahead. | ||
| Here we go. | ||
| And, uh, I want you to know that the cord from my tape recorder and the cord from the pay phone don't overlap. | ||
| This will be about five or six inches from the speaker on my tape recorder, so let's see how this works. | ||
| All right, let's try it. | ||
| Okay, here we go. | ||
| He said that, uh, there was three disks. | ||
| Three, uh, six, which was found by a grandson of an helicopter. | ||
| You can give me the names of these cannons, but none of them seem to be in difficulty, because of the way they're sort of rattled down. | ||
| It's kind of a falling leaf. | ||
| Yes, kind of a falling leaf. | ||
| It landed at the base, but it seemed like there was some Understanding ahead of time. | ||
| I'm not sure about that, because they said they dispatched a couple of, uh, I think they were African Americans, I think they were, a great, monstrous, it's wonderful to see them, you know, flying around, but the, uh, to guide it down over to the security area. | ||
| Well, they have an alert at the base, and I understood that the, I returned with the, uh, commander of the base, fire chief, several other people, We're there as the craft landed and we're waiting in the opening of the door and out came, I guess, one, two, and three human tight-fitting troops, which did not look quite human. | ||
| They had those cat eyes, or lips, because they're so big, thin mouth. | ||
| They had a, almost like a samarian looking cat, as a matter of fact, lips of them, | ||
| and even a samarian looking face. | ||
| But I, I, it looked like that to me. | ||
| They were very large, almost big like, you know. | ||
| Yes, yes. | ||
| Uh, but they were not taken to, uh, there's an area there where the Burbexes no longer exist. | ||
| Because when I went there, I asked where are these buildings and said those two buildings were torn down. | ||
| There's no significance to that. | ||
| They're always tearing things down. | ||
| And with the crash, the wind at Goodland was taken down to the end of Myers Avenue and put in a very small hangar. | ||
| This is what I was told. | ||
| Uh, we were met by an Alfonso Lorenzo, at least that's the name that's on the, on one of the documents I have. | ||
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Uh, he was supposed to be a biologist or an electrician? | |
| He was a, uh, an x-ray technician or something, radiology. | ||
| He was in that field, but I never heard that he was really on TV wire for foreign technology. | ||
| And he, he may not have been a tech sergeant at all, I, I, but that's what I was told. | ||
| He was an attendant to one of his beings. | ||
| He took care of whatever their needs were. | ||
| What was his impression of that? | ||
| Well, he was somewhat freaked out, and he's the one who contacted his friends at work to be on the alert and look for... He said, I know what's going to be done. | ||
| And he kept corresponding with... | ||
| Yes, Paul Shorter. | ||
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Did he have a personal human reaction? | |
| Yes, he did. | ||
| His comment was that to him it appeared like scientists, like educated scientists. | ||
| Now, I don't know what kind of communication was done, but it seemed like there was no problem with communicating. | ||
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You told in the drawing in your book there was that line. | |
| That was a staff which is a half caboose isn't it? | ||
| It looked like you had a coil around a staff. | ||
| He did mention that that was a communication sort of ability to ask a man to paralyze or to do whatever | ||
| but like the leadership role and it's very interesting that we have | ||
| through our military history we've had the short baton as a symbol of leadership, of power | ||
| and I kept wondering, I wonder if this is something that we from our ancient past have copied | ||
| like little humans that we are. | ||
| Alright I want to double check. | ||
| Is this coming through at all clearly? | ||
| Well, uh, not very, Linda. | ||
| Well, that's what I'm concerned about, and it's such an important interview. | ||
| I understand. | ||
| Maybe what I ought to do is just give you a quick summary on this, and then next week, do it again in the finer audio abilities I have in my office. | ||
| All right, let's do that, Linda. | ||
| Give me a summary, because it sounded fascinating. | ||
| What was the essence of the report? | ||
| This is the very first time that Bob Emenager has described the beings in any detail and using the term Sumerian. | ||
| He said this was the context within which they were described. | ||
| The same kind of pleated headdress that rose over a bulging head. | ||
| He said the eyes did have vertical pupils. | ||
| He referred to them as cat eyes. | ||
| Uh, they were holding a rod in the left hand, which is in the drawing, that had a coil, uh, roping around it. | ||
| That he said, uh, the, uh, our people understood to be both a communicator and something that they could use as a paralyzer if they were threatened in some way. | ||
| Alright, this is, uh, this is fascinating, Linda, but I'm a little bit lost. | ||
| Exactly where and when did this occur? | ||
| It was May 1971. | ||
| In a portion of Holloman Air Force Base. | ||
| Three disks, this is the part apparently you could not hear easily, came down at this particular airbase. | ||
| They were met by a party of us. | ||
| There were three beings. | ||
| One of those is the Alfonso Lorenzo name that he was referencing, who was in some scientific capacity there, | ||
| who was saying that his impression of these beings was that they were scientists. | ||
| And he was describing that in this meeting of these beings, that for all intents and purposes, | ||
| seemed to be like the so-called old ancient Sumerian gods, at least in what we have in replicas of stone statues. | ||
| They and their craft was transported for reasons that he said had something to do with a repair, | ||
| but he was not sure if that was a cover story and there was some other reason, | ||
| but that this was put on some kind of a truck covered with a tent and transported to a building at the end of a street | ||
| that was called Mars Avenue. | ||
| This happened in May of 1971, according to Emanator. | ||
| They were filming at Holloman, and filming the documentary in which they described this event then as a hypothetical sequence, because that's what the Department of Defense told them to do. | ||
| And that film was first broadcast in the United States in 1974, about three years after the event. | ||
| For those who have seen that documentary, At conferences or maybe on television in late night, it was one of the last projects that Rod Serling did as a narrator. | ||
| And in it, it is this sequence at Holloman that he is now describing in detail for the first time. | ||
| What I'm curious about is why is he just telling this story now? | ||
| they describe as hypothetical. | ||
| Yes, Linda, what I'm curious about is why is he just telling this story now? | ||
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Because he feels that he can. | |
| Because he feels that people are ready for it, do you think? | ||
| Or because something else has changed? | ||
| In other words, you say he feels he can. | ||
| He feels people will accept it, or that it's time, or what? | ||
| Well, he does not, apparently, because he said he had checked with some of his still contacts in Washington about speaking at the conference and making these descriptions, and no one said that he could not. | ||
| So, this is, in a way, it is a step forward beyond the documentary 20 years ago. | ||
| It's gone from hypothetical to the description of a reality. | ||
| Alright, well, there is yet another reality and while we're on the subject, Linda, I know your book is out. | ||
| Why don't you tell everybody how to contact you or get a copy of the book? | ||
| Well, thanks, Art. | ||
| Um, glimpses of other realities, uh, you can, uh, get information about ordering from Linda Howe Productions, post office box 538 in Huntingdon Valley, Pennsylvania, and the zip code is 19006. | ||
| I'll repeat that one more time. | ||
| Post Office Box 538 in Huntingdon, H-U-N-T-I-N-G, D as in dog, O-N, Huntingdon Valley, Pennsylvania, and the zip code is 19006. | ||
| And next week, I will redo this so that you can hear his interview clearly. | ||
| And I'm sorry I got trapped late on an airplane in an airport. | ||
| Oh, no, that's quite alright, Linda. | ||
| And if it had been any closer, I suppose you'd have been calling from in-flight. | ||
| I would have had to! | ||
| Alright, wonderful. | ||
| Thank you. | ||
| Well, thanks, and my best to Brad Hopkins. | ||
| Alright, take care, Linda. | ||
| Take care. | ||
| That's Linda Howe literally at the airport. | ||
| And, uh, sometimes that's the way things work out. | ||
| I thought she had perhaps, uh, spaced out on the time change that, of course, we all went through, the one hour time change. | ||
| Well, on a summer afternoon in 1964, Bud Hopkins and two others watched a small, round, metallic craft maneuver in the sky over Cape Cod. | ||
| This daylight sighting marked the beginning of his interest in UFO phenomenon. | ||
| But his first nationally known investigation did not take place until 1975. | ||
| Well, I understand that. | ||
| You need a while to think about an experience. | ||
| Then a UFO apparently landed less than a mile from Manhattan, was observed from various vantage points by a number of witnesses. | ||
| Bud Hopkins' carefully researched account of this incident appeared in the Village Voice Cosmopolitan magazine and elsewhere, and was covered extensively by television and radio. | ||
| Bud is an accomplished author, probably the nation's premier UFO investigator, and he has appeared just about on everybody's important television show. | ||
| And I'm sure that you know him, so he doesn't really need a great introduction beyond all of that. | ||
| Let's go to Bud Hopkins. | ||
| Bud, good evening. | ||
| Good evening, Art. | ||
| Are you able to hear me okay? | ||
| I certainly can. | ||
| I hope you can hear me. | ||
| Just fine. | ||
| Clear as can be. | ||
| Bud, first of all, welcome back. | ||
| We had you on Area 2000, now the program is syndicated, and we're sure glad to have you back again. | ||
| Listen, what did happen? | ||
| I speculated there a little bit. | ||
| I had my own sighting, Bud, and I had to sit back for a long time after it and think about it. | ||
| Was that the case with you? | ||
| Yeah, that was the case, and of course, I didn't think of myself at any point of someone who was going to do investigations. | ||
| I was making my art and exhibiting and that was my life. | ||
| It wasn't until this friend of mine reported an object landing near his car and little guys getting out, little figures and so forth in a quite dramatic way that I just simply thought I've got to look into this. | ||
| I think I was sort of pulled into this business by circumstance rather than by choice. | ||
| But I think you're right about sitting back and thinking it over. | ||
| You see, no one can overestimate, really, the resistance all of us have to what this really implies. | ||
| This is the biggest change, the biggest event in all of human history. | ||
| It's just going on. | ||
| And the evidence is there, and it's so absolutely shocking that people who have the experiences are sometimes even more hesitant to accept their reality than the people who are just reading about them on the outside, because it's so shocking. | ||
| Sure. | ||
| As you got down line from your experience a year or so, Bud, did you find that you began to question the experience yourself in your own mind, or did you find it became more clear to you? | ||
| Well, that's an interesting question. | ||
| I would say depending upon the day you might have asked the question, one or the other might have been the answer. | ||
| There is a strange way in which if everything is going well and the world seems orderly and the edges are nice and clean, you just convince yourself it just must have been something. | ||
| You don't know what it was. | ||
| It must have been something. | ||
| So you convince yourself as best you can that it's just something that's going to go away because it has to have an explanation. | ||
| On the days when the imagery comes back in your mind vividly, and God forbid you've read | ||
| about somebody else having a similar thing, it comes back to haunt you. | ||
| This really happened. | ||
| Right. | ||
| And so I do think that the ambivalence is bound to be there. | ||
| You know, one of the things, Art, that bothers me a great deal is TV programs or whatnot. | ||
| When they're dealing with people who have had abduction experiences, they will say, so-and-so claims to have been abducted. | ||
| Right. | ||
| No one ever, no one, but very few people will step up and say, I had an abduction experience. | ||
| I claim this. | ||
| What people really say is, this happened to me, it is so confusing, it is so upsetting, it's totally real as far as I'm concerned, but it just can't be, I'm having trouble even believing it. | ||
| So therefore it's a long way away from a cold-blooded, clear-eyed claim for anybody. | ||
| I don't think it's so much the fear, although that does enter into it, the fear of ridicule. | ||
| it is to the individual, but maybe it's easier for the storyteller to, in essence, give themselves | ||
| an out if the other guy hearing the story says, boy, what a bunch of baloney. | ||
| Yeah, well, I don't think it's so much the fear, although that does enter into it, the | ||
| fear of ridicule. | ||
| It's the fact that if you accept the reality yourself, what this does to your whole belief | ||
| system about virtually everything in the world. | ||
| Yeah, but there's a lot of fear about the listener and how they're going to react. | ||
| I remember after my experience, I thought, do I say anything or don't I say anything? | ||
| I finally decided to, but I was in great fear, Bud, about what people would think of me. | ||
| Yeah, that's true. | ||
| I've just finished writing an article, which I'll be publishing fairly soon. | ||
| I'll send it to the Bhutan Journal. | ||
| The title is Losing a Battle but Winning the War, something to that effect. | ||
| The basic point is that we're winning the war about bringing this material and this phenomenon, the abduction phenomenon, to more and more serious mainstream attention. | ||
| Susan Spencer here from 48 Hours doing some work. | ||
| They're going to be coming back next week on a 48 Hours special. | ||
| But I mean, the New York Times, Time Magazine, I've been interviewed recently by, you know, a lot of very fine mainstream people. | ||
| We are winning the war for simply the idea that this has got to be taken seriously. | ||
| Whatever idea about it you want to have, whether you think it's some completely strange new modern psychological apparition or whatever, or whether you feel that these events are real, uh... still more more people coming inclusion you can't | ||
| just sit on the sidelines | ||
| without looking into it but the battle we're losing it's the fact that a particularly virulent group of uh... | ||
| what i call true believers that people who believe that this cannot possibly | ||
| be true but i would say that they have a very narrow belief system | ||
| these people uh... | ||
| like to think of themselves as debunkers or skeptics or whatever | ||
| but there's a very narrow group of them who have set about almost single-handedly | ||
| to make a climate exists to bring about a climate of opinion | ||
| that makes it almost impossible for serious people with a lot of risk to come forward and | ||
| talk about their experience | ||
| Sure. | ||
| That battle we're really losing. | ||
| I've worked now with maybe 450 people, something like that, one-on-one, who've had abduction experiences. | ||
| One of them was a NASA scientist I just approached the other day by the 6th or 7th rather, a psychiatrist, who's had his own experiences. | ||
| Police officers, military and so forth. | ||
| Actually, a person I'm going to be working with shortly, her father was up for an Academy Award recently. | ||
| major category these are people from all walks of life who Now if you have any questions, but it come forward to be | ||
| extremely important for the credibility of the whole issue Right, I thought I was going to ask what happens to a NASA | ||
| scientist who claims he or claims publicly that he was abducted | ||
| Might be looking for a new job I don't know it's hard to say but I would say to any NASA | ||
| scientist in a situation like that Don't go public because the climate that's been established | ||
| of ridicule by these virulent | ||
| You know the reputation crashes really is such that it's they are trying to create a climate in which nobody can | ||
| is such that they are trying to create a climate in which nobody can come forward and talk about | ||
| come forward and talk About this objectively in terms of personal experience | ||
| this objectively in terms of personal experience without enormous risk. | ||
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without enormous risk and to show you the level of the risk of ridicule by these zealots, reputation trashers really, | |
| To show you the level of risk, I received two letters from two different people, women, | ||
| who had explored their experiences and now were in the divorce court and their husbands | ||
| were trying to get custody of the children on the grounds that the wives were crazy because | ||
| they believed they had these experiences. | ||
| You can imagine, if you were a neurosurgeon, if you were a police lieutenant, would you | ||
| ever come forward and talk about that under the present climate of ridicule? | ||
| No, I don't think so. | ||
| I advise people not to. | ||
| It's really amazing that this many do, and if you get a chance to talk to them first, you say no, don't do it. | ||
| I actually do. | ||
| Now, I'm involved in an extremely important case here in New York involving witnesses to an abduction, an abduction that was evidently Put on for people to see. | ||
| I mean, a very important political figure was involved as a witness, and it was a kind of a show for this person, I believe, as you, the inferences you make from the evidence. | ||
| And there are numerous witnesses, including a new witness that I had just recently uncovered. | ||
| But the point is, I have given the advice to these people not to come forward because the skeptics are ready to savage anybody who reports this kind of experience. | ||
| Well, I was about ready to ask you for some names, but obviously that's not going to happen, is it? | ||
| Yeah, I can't do it. | ||
| And that's a big problem. | ||
| That's a battle which we really are losing. | ||
| How big a person? | ||
| How big a person are we talking about, Bob? | ||
| Well, we're talking about... It's hard to say. | ||
| Let's find an analogy. | ||
| Let's say the importance of the level of, let's say, a former Secretary of Defense of the United States, a former Prime Minister of Great Britain, something of that level. | ||
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Oh, my. | |
| Oh, that's... We're talking very, very high. | ||
| Yeah, that's... But the point is... All right, Bud, listen, the point is we're at the bottom of the hour right now, so let's take a quick break and we'll be right back. | ||
| My guest is Bud Hopkins, and this is already fascinating stuff. | ||
| You're listening to Dreamland on a Sunday night from the CBC Radio Network. | ||
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A pre-recorded, previously broadcast program. | |
| This is a pre-recorded, previously broadcast program. | ||
| From the Kingdom of Nine, this is Dreamland with Art Bell on the CBC Radio Network. | ||
| Another Sunday night, another Dreamland. | ||
| My guest is Bob Bud Hopkins. | ||
| And he really ought not need anybody's introduction, and he really doesn't. | ||
| He is the nation's premier UFO investigator. | ||
| Author of intruders and missing time and talks about all that sort of thing and he's telling us now about Fascinating case actually involving somebody up high who's had an experience an apparent abduction and And, uh, has been interviewed recently by 48 Hours. | ||
| And, Bud, I want to ask you about 48 Hours. | ||
| Have you noticed any sort of sea change, Bud, in the way, uh, 48 Hours and other programs are, uh, are coming at you? | ||
| In other words, are they more serious about the subject? | ||
| Absolutely, Art. | ||
| I don't think there's any doubt about it. | ||
| And I believe that this really began, the change began back in 87, because it was the simultaneous appearance of my book, Intruders, through Random House, Whitney Strieber's book, Communion through Morrow, and Light Years by Gary Kinder. | ||
| I've forgotten the publisher, but it was a major publisher. | ||
| Three books came out at the same time. | ||
| taking the subject very seriously and they were published by major publishing houses. | ||
| And at that point there was just no way that the press could totally ignore this and | ||
| things began to change at that time. | ||
| I was favorably reviewed in the New York Times and the Washington Post and places like that. | ||
| 2020 did a piece and so forth. | ||
| Plus, you know, lots of other things. | ||
| But the point is that the public is extremely interested in this, because I think there is a subtle awareness in this country that this has never gone away, that the subject just The evidence is there, and there's an effort on the part of the government and other people to keep it quiet, and people just want more and more to hear about it. | ||
| All right, I'd like to understand, Bud, what you can tell us about your own success. | ||
| In other words, you are regarded, so well regarded, throughout the mainstream media, and why is that compared to others who are ridiculed, frankly, and laughed at at times? | ||
| Why? | ||
| Well, maybe you should ask the press to answer that question instead of me. | ||
| I can just tell you what I try to do, and that is I try to never make any assertions beyond those that I feel the evidence can really support in a very clear-cut way. | ||
| Sit on aspects of the phenomenon which are more outré, more peculiar, which I cannot really support so well by clear-cut evidence. | ||
| A lot of people want to go with the most dramatic story they can find, which of course then makes it sound as if, even though it may be very sincere and actually have some evidence for it, but it makes them sound a little bit more like the supermarket dreadful, those little papers, than serious individuals. | ||
| And I think that I can say I haven't really had to retract anything that I've written over the years simply because I've been very careful and I | ||
| think that that carefulness comes out because in people's response that they feel that | ||
| well, here's somebody who doesn't sound wild and crazy and does | ||
| marshal his evidence and Perhaps he should be attended to listen to I | ||
| I think that's perhaps, I hope, that's the reason why I have received more attention on some of these subjects from mainstream people. | ||
| All right. | ||
| What about people like Phil Klass? | ||
| Phil Klass, I'm going to have on the program in debate in a few weeks. | ||
| How has Phil treated you? | ||
| Evenly, along with everybody else, bud? | ||
| Oh, the man has lied, as a matter of fact. | ||
| You see, when we talk about balance and Philip Glass, it would be as if you were having a program on politics, and supposing I were Senator Lautenberg, say, and for balance you've got Lyndon LaRouche. | ||
| No, I understand. | ||
| I'm going to have him on with Stanton Friedman, though, and Stanton can hold his own. | ||
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Well, he can hold his own. | |
| Years ago, Mort Saul said that he defined a liberal as a masochist who will buy and read everything a bigot publishes. | ||
| I've always thought of Philip Glass as essentially a bigot. | ||
| There's no sense of his having an open mind on any of these issues. | ||
| Just to show you the typical situation why I can say these very harsh things, and I don't say harsh things about many people. | ||
| Uh, as an example, he wrote a book attacking me at great length. | ||
| And attacking a number of abductees, Charles Hickson, Betty Hill, Kathy Davis, you know, many, many different people. | ||
| Sure. | ||
| Attacking the entire phenomenon, and had never interviewed or spoken to a single, solitary person that he wrote the book about. | ||
| Alright, let's look at motivation for a moment. | ||
| There are those who say he works for the government, he's part of the disinformation campaign, or do you think it's just a personal thing with him? | ||
| Well, I don't really know. | ||
| I shouldn't even say. | ||
| If he's working for the government, the government's not getting its money's worth. | ||
| Let's put it that way. | ||
| I don't know what his problem is. | ||
| I think he adores the publicity. | ||
| But at any rate, I'd just like to make one point very clear. | ||
| This is an example of the way he operates. | ||
| He started attacking abductees, and he doesn't He doesn't do this in any kind of tempted, a gentle way of saying, well, maybe these people are misguided or something. | ||
| He implies everyone is a liar and a crook. | ||
| And this is his basic... Recently in the Times, he said, he was quoted as saying, these people aren't crazy, meaning there isn't a mental problem. | ||
| They're just little nobodies. | ||
| This is the only way they can get on the Oprah Winfrey Show, which I think is, of course, a wonderful piece of self-description on his part. | ||
| I'll ask him about that. | ||
| But at any rate, I mean, that's not the voice of a scientist. | ||
| That's the voice of a mad fanatic. | ||
| And let's always remember that Santayana defined a fanatic as someone who, when he loses sight of his goal, redoubles his efforts. | ||
| But this is the point I'd like to make. | ||
| He started attacking abductees a long time ago, saying if they really had these experiences, they would report them to the FBI. | ||
| Uh, which is kind of funny if you're Charles Dixon and you're in Pascagoula, Mississippi in the middle of the night, how do you find the FBI? | ||
| Absolutely. | ||
| You go to the local police, but at any rate, uh, he said the reason they don't report it to the FBI is because it's a federal law against falsely reporting a kidnapping, which would imply that they're aware of that law and therefore they're, that made up the whole story, they're afraid to report it. | ||
| Right. | ||
| Of course, it's reported that the police, this is state law, always against falsely reporting a kidnapping, too. | ||
| It's the same thing. | ||
| It doesn't make any difference. | ||
| You don't have to bring in the FBI. | ||
| But years ago, under the Freedom of Information Act, we got an internal FBI memo describing an abduction reported to it in 1967. | ||
| and copies of that was sent to class of course uh... meanwhile when i did the oprah winfrey show with him | ||
| one time the only time i and i will never do it again to your driver appeared | ||
| with him uh... i handed him a copy of my letter | ||
| to the fbi reporting all the cases that i have been working on and demanding | ||
| investigation already how do you react to that well he was uh... quick immediate thing was to | ||
| a counterattack and say well you should have done it earlier you know | ||
| And of course, it was an exercise in futility because the letter I got back from the FBI was exactly what I expected. | ||
| You know, dear Mr. Hopkins, the FBI does not look into such cases. | ||
| Please report it to MUFON, etc. | ||
| At any rate, the basic point is that as recently as two weeks ago or three weeks ago, something like that, Someone was interviewing him and he went into his FBI routine again and said, uh, maybe because of the log in, but maybe that's why to this day, no one has ever reported a UFO abduction to the FBI. | ||
| Now that is an outright lie, which he knows to be a lie. | ||
| I don't know what's eating a man. | ||
| He certainly seems to be an unhappy human being, but, uh, I, um, I wish you well with your experience. | ||
| I think I've talked as much as I want to about this, man. | ||
| Yeah, that's fine. | ||
| My next question would be a really broad one, Bud. | ||
| What is it, in your view, Which is, and has been for years now, been seen in our skies. | ||
| What are all these things? | ||
| How many of them would you say are legitimate, possible extraterrestrial visitors of some sort? | ||
|
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Right. | |
| Well, the first point is as to what they are. | ||
| I mean, obviously, none of us know what they are. | ||
| In any kind of absolute way, we know what they aren't. | ||
| The word alien defines something in terms of what it isn't. | ||
| When I'm in Mexico City, I'm an alien. | ||
| The basic point is, they're not from Nebraska or wherever. | ||
| They are an alien phenomenon. | ||
| Therefore, what we can say about their origin and their nature is always speculative. | ||
| I always quote to show the impossibility of Getting out correctly, Scott Rogo once made the remark that he didn't, I think he must have regretted this. | ||
| He was a good man and died far too young, but he did make this little flip, and he said he didn't believe that UFO occupants were extraterrestrial because they were not doing what extraterrestrials would do. | ||
| Oh, and how does he know? | ||
| Well, that's just the problem. | ||
| So when people get into arguments about, oh, I think they're interdimensional, and somebody says they're time travelers or they're extraterrestrials, whatever, I just sort of slink away from the argument. | ||
| We know that they're not human. | ||
| What do we know about them? | ||
| We know that they obviously exhibit intelligence. | ||
| They have a humanoid appearance. | ||
| They have, obviously, a technology which is thousands of years ahead of ours. | ||
| They seem deeply interested in us. | ||
| They are deeply foreign to us in their sense of not really understanding human emotions. | ||
| We know many, many, many things about how they behave, but as to what the bottom line is, what their goal is ultimately, what they're going to be doing a year from now, 20 years, 100 years from now, we have no way of knowing. | ||
| Okay, but you are nevertheless convinced that they are in one of those categories, whether it's inter-dimensional or it's extra-galactic or whatever it is. | ||
| Yeah, they're physically real at least some of the time. | ||
| Now, they seem to be able to dematerialize, virtually disappear, and so forth and so on. | ||
| Whether that's, whether you want to talk, invent a term called inter-dimensional or whether we want to just say it's an advanced technology. | ||
| You can flip a coin, it doesn't really make any difference to me. | ||
| But the point is that they represent a non-human intelligence from elsewhere, which is of enormous advancement over us technologically and so on. | ||
| All right. | ||
| We are a commercial operation, so we're going to do a little of that right now, Bud. | ||
| Relax for a second. | ||
| We'll be right back to you. | ||
| Okay. | ||
| All right. | ||
| My guest is Bud Hopkins, and if you've been listening, you well understand what the subject matter is. | ||
| We'll be right back with more of it. | ||
| We've got to take some calls tonight. | ||
| Yes, we are. | ||
| I'm very interested in that. | ||
| Yes. | ||
| Well, they're coming up in the next hour, Bud. | ||
| Uh-huh. | ||
| Good. | ||
| Absolutely. | ||
| Are these friendly beings, or are they... | ||
| What are they? | ||
| In other words, we see one of these things, what would you advise a person? | ||
| Walk up and offer your hand or run like hell? | ||
| Well, the truth of the matter is you're probably not going to have any choice one way or the other in this. | ||
| They seem to be able to control the situation as they need to. | ||
| Now, the basic point about this, which is extremely, I think, central to understand, All of our science fiction films and simple stories have always dealt with visitors from outside, extraterrestrials or whatever, as one of two types. | ||
| They are going to come as conquerors, body snatchers, etc. | ||
| Or they are going to come as saviors to clean up the environment and close up the ozone | ||
| layer, etc. | ||
| They are either going to be, in other words, gods or devils. | ||
| Neither one of those descriptions fits what we are getting. | ||
| What we are getting is what we might call a third world, a third force. | ||
| They seem to have their own agenda. | ||
| Their own agenda does not involve any kind of causing of deliberate pain or deliberate | ||
| hardship or taking over the world or anything of that sort at this point because they have | ||
| been here for a long time. | ||
| I have abduction cases that go back to 1920. | ||
| They could have done an awful lot of mischief, had they wanted to, in the meantime. | ||
| And of course, in all of that time, there's absolutely no sign they've done anything to help us out either. | ||
| Nothing stopped, for instance, the Holocaust. | ||
| Nothing stopped our dropping bombs on Hiroshima. | ||
| Nobody stopped the Korean War, the Vietnam War, or the carnage and the genocide that various factions have practiced. | ||
| Since then, nobody's stopped the spread of AIDS, the problems of cancer, the difficulties with our planet, the environment. | ||
| They seem to be bent on their own purposes, which are not malevolent or benevolent. | ||
| And that's a very tough one to understand. | ||
| Alright, so then maybe they're closer to actually just monitoring what we're doing. | ||
| Well, they seem to be monitoring it, but they seem to be taking material from us and taking from us with as little disruption as possible, it would seem, as little deliberate disruption. | ||
| The involuntary disruptions, the side effects of what they're doing, are truly horrendous. | ||
| I don't think they understand the terror and the confusion and the self-doubt and the family disorders and dysfunctions and so on that fall in the wake of what they've been doing over these years. | ||
| But I don't see that those are intended results. | ||
| So, they are taking from us our genetic material, our DNA, our particular genetic makeup, because it seems, and this is the basic theme of my book, Intruders, and really this has been replicated and accepted by virtually all abduction researchers that I know of, they are picking people up in childhood and picking them up again at intervals throughout their lives as objects of study. | ||
| They seem to be taking sperm and ova samples and genetic material in what is apparently an attempt to create a mixture of themselves and ourselves, a hybrid being. | ||
| Along with that, they seem extremely interested in understanding our emotions, our thoughts, our feelings about one another, our sense of relationship with one another. | ||
| Love we feel for one another, for our children, and so forth. | ||
| All of those wonderful human things they seem to lack, and they seem to be very anxious to acquire them. | ||
| Well, as you look at their behavior, Bud, would you say they're more likely... Let's see, how can I put this? | ||
| Would you say they're more likely our creators, or they are tampering with what has been created? | ||
| Boy, that's a tough one to answer. | ||
| I mean, we're out in real deep speculation. | ||
| I mean, there are a lot of people who talk about them as our creators and so forth. | ||
| The idea being that we must have some common genetic root for a hybrid program to work. | ||
| I really don't know how to answer that. | ||
| My feeling though is that on earth females carry their babies for nine months, the fetuses | ||
| in their bodies and when they give birth there is a tremendous sense of connection and bonding | ||
| with their children. | ||
| If you imagine some kind of developed species which no longer reproduces by that method, | ||
| which no longer has females that go through the discomfort and warmth and everything else | ||
| of carrying a child inside the body and giving it nurturance and so forth. | ||
| If they have evolved past that and they somehow need that, they feel that perhaps they've reached some kind of evolutionary dead end, and there are reports that would suggest that, though we can't, you know, again, we're in speculation. | ||
| Okay, again, that it is they have reached the dead end. | ||
| Yes, exactly. | ||
| They have enough. | ||
| I think they're envious of us, to tell you the truth. | ||
| I think that they're gaining spiritual and emotional nurturance from us at the same time that they're taking, forcibly I should say, genetic material. | ||
| Alright, a lot of people speculate in order to do that there was, with our government or somebody, a deal made, Bud, a long time ago. | ||
| Kind of a technology swap for genetic tampering permission or whatever. | ||
| I think it's totally without foundation. | ||
| I think it's even kind of ludicrous, just on the ground. | ||
| If all we've gotten out of it is some stealth technology, as people allege. | ||
| Stealth planes manage to cost an inordinate amount of money and don't even work very well. | ||
| I don't know what we've gotten out of it. | ||
| I don't see anything that we've gotten out of it, any kind of a quantum leap in technology. | ||
| I wouldn't, on the other hand, say that we haven't perhaps found wreckage if they have had accidents and acquired that wreckage and tried to reverse engineer that wreckage in some way to learn what makes their equipment go. | ||
| But the idea that, you know, I always used to think, Under the previous administration, I always sort of made a joke about it. | ||
| We saw the idea of small gray men with clipboards standing in Dan Quayle's office with a list of children they wanted to abduct that week, or aluminum siding salesmen, or whatever. | ||
| I mean, it's just totally foolish. | ||
| They can do whatever they want to do. | ||
| They don't have to ask any government permission from anybody. | ||
| I think that that kind of theory gets foisted upon us because a lot of people who look into | ||
| this have a natural paranoid tendency. | ||
| I don't mean that in a strict clinical meaning, but conspiracy theories are wonderful for | ||
| a lot of people. | ||
| They abound. | ||
| Of course, you understand that paranoia is a wonderful thing because it instantly organizes | ||
| what is otherwise chaotic. | ||
| You know, if you and I have a flat tire in the afternoon and lose a poker in the evening, | ||
| we think we had a couple of bad breaks, but the paranoid will tell you who did it to you | ||
| and why. | ||
| That's right. | ||
| So the point is that if there's a lot of paranoia about the UFO phenomenon, there's of course | ||
| tremendous paranoia and some of it obviously very deserved on the part of belief about | ||
| the government. | ||
| So if you can put the two together and say the two are working hand in hand. | ||
| We've got a kind of very satisfactory thing. | ||
| All right, you almost speak as though there is not a government cover-up. | ||
| We're close to the poverty line. | ||
| No, no, no. | ||
| There is one. | ||
| Absolutely. | ||
| But there's a big difference between complicity and some kind of a deal where the government or some branch thereof is quote-unquote allowing the aliens to abduct thousands and thousands and thousands of our citizens daily. | ||
| So, in other words, you think the government may understand that it is here and that they are here and even have evidence of that, but not really know what the story is themselves? | ||
| Absolutely. | ||
| I think that their knowledge is far more extensive, I'm sure, whatever branch this is, than my knowledge or anyone else's. | ||
| But the point is, what can they do about it? | ||
| I've used this example again and again. | ||
| If all a president can say is, ladies and gentlemen, they're here, they're flying around, they can outfly anything we have, and they're taking our people on these one- and two- and three-hour abduction events, medical experiments, sperm and ovum samples being taken. | ||
| They erase people's memories. | ||
| We have no idea what it's ultimately leading to, whether they're going to be friendly or not. | ||
| We don't know what this is all about. | ||
| There's nothing we can do about it. | ||
| Thank you. | ||
| Good night. | ||
| We'll talk about it when we hear more. | ||
| In other words, why say anything? | ||
| You're just going to scare a whole bunch of people. | ||
| Could you imagine being in the bond market when something like that dropped? | ||
| No, I cannot. | ||
| Bud Hopkins, hold on. | ||
| We're going to take a break. | ||
| Top of the hour. | ||
| Then we'll come back and take phone calls. | ||
| This is, uh, Greenland. | ||
| On a Sunday evening, I'm Art Bell, my guest is Bud Hopkins, nation's premier UFO investigator. | ||
| Get close to your telephone, get ready, because you're about to have an opportunity to speak to us. | ||
|
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... | |
| ... | ||
| 800-618-8255. | ||
| 1-800-618-8255. | ||
| First time callers, area code 702-727-1222. | ||
| Or the wildcard line at 702-727-1295. | ||
| This is the CBC Radio Network. | ||
| And we own the night or evening, whatever day part it happens to be. | ||
| My guest is Bud Hopkins. | ||
| And as the man just told you, those are the telephone numbers. | ||
| the cdc radio network and we all night or evening whatever day part | ||
| of happens my guest is but hopkins | ||
| and as the man just told you those of the telephone numbers the telephone lines | ||
| are now open but it is our nation's i believe premier ufo investigator | ||
| I'm honored to have him on the program. | ||
| Bud, are you there? | ||
| I certainly am. | ||
| Okay. | ||
| And if I may just make a comment, because we do live in the real world, too, with all the rest of this. | ||
| I'm sort of astonished at the heavy-duty, right-wing bias of the news reports we're getting. | ||
| It's really quite a program. | ||
| So much news is a little sermonette about how bad Anything liberal? | ||
| I'm surprised, but anyway, I don't want to short-circuit what we're talking about. | ||
| But we do live in the real world, and these other things are important to us, too. | ||
| They really are. | ||
|
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And does the twain ever meet, Bud? | |
| Oh, yeah. | ||
| It does. | ||
|
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Yeah, absolutely. | |
| Well, the twain meets in the sense that these experiences, and we're again dealing with the whole abduction phenomenon, These experiences have such powerful effects on people's lives that there is no way that your day-to-day existence is not affected very subtly by what's happened to you. | ||
| Just to give you a quick example, if these experiences have happened in childhood and seemed to always start versus abducted as a little child. | ||
| And you're five years old and you wake up and you can't move, you're totally paralyzed, | ||
| and you feel there's some strange figure that's come out of the closet or whatever with his huge | ||
| black eyes and you feel yourself floating or whatever and you don't remember all of the | ||
| You come back with a cut on your leg that wasn't there. | ||
| Maybe you're upside down in your bed, or maybe your pajamas are no longer on. | ||
| They're on the floor or something. | ||
| All those signs of physical problems. | ||
| And you start calling out for help for your parents. | ||
| And your mother says, you just had a bad dream. | ||
| Get back in bed. | ||
| And you try to say, it wasn't a dream. | ||
| It was real. | ||
| Right. | ||
| What happens, of course, is a terrible kind of Split develops between the child and his or her sense of trust of adults. | ||
| And if the adults begin to feel maybe something like this really is happening, they begin to feel a tremendous sense of impotence, of helplessness, in protecting your own families, and much of this can remain unspoken. | ||
| And it does not help anybody in your day-to-day existence, whether you're talking about your first grade teacher or your friends at school, you're afraid to let them know that these strange things are happening to you, which you think, am I crazy? | ||
| Is this me? | ||
| What is this? | ||
| All right, Bud, one other thing. | ||
| You brought up politics, so one question, then we'll go to the phones, and that is, this administration, they've revealed an awful lot about the nuclear testing and a bunch of other baloney that's going on. | ||
| What kind of hopes do you have that they're going to release information or what they know about UFOs? | ||
| Well, my hopes are slender, sad to say. | ||
| We have been hearing day after year after year after year that this is the year and they're going to come clean and so on and so forth. | ||
| I honestly don't see how they can do that without really terrifying the country. | ||
| They've put themselves in a completely terrible position by the government cover-up program because by denigrating the experiences of literally millions of people, uh... they're really saying you didn't have these | ||
| experiences you either made them up you're a liar | ||
| or uh... or you mentally ill it didn't happen some some problem | ||
| psychologically uh... and uh... this is of course | ||
| very much like uh... the national scale scale what i was describing within the | ||
| family where the parents are telling the children this didn't happen to you you just had a | ||
| dream and the child knows it wasn't a dream uh... that the people who have had these experiences know | ||
| that the government is lying to them And of course it means that they have no place to go for, uh, although we're trying to supply that as best we can with our limited resources, uh, numbers of researchers and mental health professionals are turning around to, uh, to this, but in the meantime, I mean, to help people as best they can. | ||
| enormous damage and of course if they admit now after years of lying about it | ||
| uh... as i said i would want to be in the bond market when this happens so | ||
| they're really in a spot right all right let's take some phone calls uh... on our | ||
| toll free line you're on the air with bud hopkins good evening where you calling | ||
| from please portland oregon orland oregon alright go ahead | ||
|
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uh... well i had a recent experience uh... as you're wondering how familiar it is | |
| Um, not too long ago, I was, I had just gone to bed with my fiancé, and it was quite late, it was about midnight, and, um, uh, I felt as though something had entered my room, and I opened my eyes, or tried to open my eyes, and my vision started to just kind of blur, and then my hearing went out, and I was completely paralyzed, And all I really do remember seeing is something kind of dark and not too huge, but kind of large. | ||
| And then I remember trying to yell or scream for my fiancé, and all I remember being able to do is kind of mumble and groan a little bit. | ||
| And then not too long after that, he was shaking me, as if he was trying to wake me up. | ||
| And then after that had happened, I still couldn't move or hear or anything and then there was like this loud wind in my ears and then I was able to get up and scream and tell them to turn on the lights and that's basically all I remember except for that the next morning I woke up and had a bruise across my shoulder that hadn't been there before. | ||
| Well, this is something that should definitely be looked into. | ||
| We have some people in Portland, and you're very fortunate to be in a city where there's a very sensitive investigator, whose name I don't want to give over the air here. | ||
| This is what I would suggest you do. | ||
| If you write to me, this is the address for anyone who wants to describe the experience. | ||
| Just write to me, care of if, just the initials if. | ||
| It stands actually for a Trudis Foundation, but just say if. | ||
|
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K. Box 30233. | |
| K. And that's New York, New York. | ||
| And the zip is 10011. | ||
|
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Okay. | |
| Now, if you write to me and we will put you in touch with a very skilled and helpful and very, very warm person, an investigator in the Portland area who has had these experiences herself. | ||
| And she has a support group of people who can be of help. | ||
| But your experience should very definitely be looked into. | ||
| All right. | ||
|
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Well, I have another question. | |
| It usually happened because not too long before that I had kind of a sighting. | ||
| I'm not too sure exactly what I'd seen, but it was definitely something not usual. | ||
| Alright, listen on the radio for us please ma'am. | ||
| Is that typical sighting? | ||
| Many people have these experiences without remembering a sighting or without having had a recent sighting. | ||
| According to the Roper survey, it would suggest that perhaps more people have had abduction experiences than have had UFO sightings. | ||
| We used to think of the abduction as a kind of a bizarre, very minor aspect of the whole phenomenon, but now I think it's, of course, the central purpose, and UFOs are, as it were, the getaway car. | ||
| As I pointed out, we have Uh, we spent, originally, before we accepted the idea of abductions, we spent many years trying to get the license plate number on the getaway car without having figured out what the crime was. | ||
| Right. | ||
| Uh, so UFO sightings are not necessary, are not necessary for someone to have had these experiences. | ||
| Alright, on the wildcard line, you're on the air with Bud Hopkins. | ||
| Good evening, where are you calling from, please? | ||
|
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Good evening, this is Fritz from Los Angeles. | |
| And now to a very serious, sensitive subject about the alien. | ||
| Way back in 1965, I learned about two alien federations on a cosmic doorstep. | ||
| not the kind ones with a democratic utopian free will believe | ||
| not so kind once with a socialistic i'm your leader you will follow me system | ||
| what i want to say is that for hundreds of years there has been a great conflict | ||
| over who will connect with this | ||
| solar system now my question to bud is have you heard | ||
| new research running into this conflict about the two alien races out there | ||
| who want to see this take over the earth sooner or later. | ||
| Alright thanks for it. | ||
| Well, we've got the left and the right in this country. | ||
| It's kind of a question about extra-galactic politics. | ||
| I would say that what's been described here is essentially, with all due respect to Fritz, it sounds to me like the kind of projection that we get from people who want to put this in the duality of gods and | ||
| devils, gods and demons and so forth, that I was talking about earlier before. I haven't seen in | ||
| the 18 years I've been doing this kind of research, I haven't seen any sign that we have different groups doing | ||
| specifically different things. | ||
| Now we have different physical types described from time to time, but they very often are seen in the same ship doing the same kind of work with human beings that I've been describing. | ||
| Do you think that they are in contact with each other, aware of each other, or are we being simultaneously contacted or sporadically contacted by many different groups and different origins? | ||
| Very hard question to answer, Art. | ||
| What I said, though, essentially is, as an example, in one California case, the woman reported small gray figures with huge heads and black eyes, and a tall figure that was more insect-like with huge eyes. | ||
| People have made associations with the praying mantis look and so forth. | ||
| And the same ship was a, relatively speaking, normal human being, but they were all cooperating In these genetic experiments as I've been describing. | ||
| So, it would seem that we don't have different groups doing different things. | ||
| I suspect that although we have no idea where the place of origin of these figures are or what not, there doesn't seem to be a different group doing different projects. | ||
| Kind of a consortium then? | ||
| Yeah, it would seem to be. | ||
| Alright, on the first time caller line, you're on the air with Bud Hopkins. | ||
| Good evening. | ||
|
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Well, good evening. | |
| I can't believe I got through. | ||
| You have, where are you calling from? | ||
|
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This is Bill in Albuquerque. | |
| Yes, Bill. | ||
|
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And I wanted to ask Mr. Hopkins if he's the one that wrote Missing Time. | |
| I read that book and I forgot it completely. | ||
| Is he with the aliens? | ||
| You mean you had a missing memory about a book, right? | ||
|
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Yeah, about your book. | |
| No, my question is brief. | ||
| I want to know if you think that we have experimental aircraft that flies as fast as the speed of light. | ||
| All right, all right. | ||
| Mr. Bell, I would doubt that very seriously. | ||
| I'm not a scientist, but I would doubt very seriously if we have anything that remotely approaches the speed of light. | ||
| I think that there are undoubtedly aircraft under, you know, in the planning stages, advanced aircraft of one sort or another, and also there is evidence that has come up actually in Uh, in Nevada and so forth, it would suggest that perhaps there's been some reverse engineering of crashed UFOs, which would suggest an attempt to try to get something to work. | ||
| But the idea that we've got anything that can go near the speed of light, that if somebody had that, NASA would be out of business and somebody would be making zillions of dollars at it and so on. | ||
| What about modes of travel, bud? | ||
| I've heard a lot of people talk about the bending of time and space and leap across that bend. | ||
| Have you heard a lot about that? | ||
| There are lots of theories of that sort, and we really don't know what to make of it. | ||
| I mean, I don't. | ||
| As I say, leave that kind of speculation to other people. | ||
| I'd rather stay with the data and away from heavy speculation. | ||
| It's fun to do, but we know that this is going on in the lives of many, many millions of people, actually. | ||
| How they get here, how they travel, where they're coming from. | ||
| I mean, the idea, for instance, that they are necessarily locked into a planetary system somewhere. | ||
| It's not necessarily true. | ||
| I mean, it's highly possible, since we have had up in space a Skylab at one point, and space stations are going to be built by us within not too long a period, orbiting Skylabs. | ||
| One could imagine that an environment could have been constructed, and it could be movable through space, and so they might not be tied down to a planet. | ||
| Who knows? | ||
| All right, good. | ||
| Well, I think that's why you're so highly regarded. | ||
| You don't, on a moment's notice or a second's notice, leap into the unknown. | ||
| We don't. | ||
| Good. | ||
|
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All right. | |
| Good evening. | ||
| On the toll-free line, you're on the air with Bud Hopkins. | ||
| Where are you calling from, please? | ||
|
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Lawrence Laboratories, Livermore, California. | |
| Very good. | ||
|
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Well, I'd like to contribute by helping Bud Hopkins and your audience understand the nature and the origin of UFOs. | |
| All right, sir. | ||
| Are you on a speakerphone? | ||
| And if you are, could you pick up the telephone? | ||
|
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I can't do that because I'm in an unsecured area and I don't want my co-workers to know tonight. | |
| That's just fine. | ||
| Then go ahead. | ||
| We'll put up with it. | ||
|
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Just before Einstein passed away in the 50s, he was working on the Time Continuum Theory and trying to explain it. | |
| UFOs are simply our descendant scientists from the future who are visiting us from all points in the future. | ||
| And on what basis do you conclude that? | ||
|
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Well, Lawrence Laboratories in Berkeley is working on some of the projects. | |
| Well, the idea of time traveling, of course, has been brought up many, many times as a theory. | ||
| I don't see that really changes anything, frankly. | ||
|
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I'm really taking a chance on even talking about this. | |
| I understand, and you are giving us news. | ||
| Can you give us some idea of what technologies you're talking about, please? | ||
|
unidentified
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Well, the different crafts that you see are simply the different time machines, modes of travel machines that are from all different points in the future. | |
| They're simply scientists who are coming back with a policy of non-interference, studying the history of mankind. | ||
| That's why they're taking DNA samples to the future to find out What has gone wrong with mankind in the future? | ||
| That's quite incredible, and... They're not extraterrestrials. | ||
|
unidentified
|
They're from right here. | |
| They're from right here. | ||
|
unidentified
|
That's why we see ships, as you call them, materialize and dematerialize, because they're simply going in and out of time. | |
| The issues, the descriptions, of course, here of time traveling, I mean, it fits one of the modes of | ||
| explanation of the UFO phenomenon that we've had for a long long time | ||
| Along with you know ideas of interdimensionality and so forth | ||
| So what you're saying is as a theory it's been around a long time the news would be if you can say officially | ||
| That this is some kind of government. I mean that the large Livermore laboratories is working on something | ||
|
unidentified
|
There is a point in the future where mankind learns to travel in time. | |
| Mm-hmm. | ||
| And it's less than 200 years. | ||
| Well, the issue would be if some kind of statement could be made that would be official about this, that would be the news. | ||
| Maybe this caller would like to comment on the paradox problem, since you seem familiar with... There is no paradox if there's non-interference. | ||
| All right, good enough. | ||
| All right, I've got a run caller. | ||
| Well, there is, of course, an amazing amount of interference. | ||
| Lives are being interfered with daily. | ||
| Suicides have resulted in this. | ||
| In other words, the interference is extraordinary. | ||
| So it isn't a question of, let's say, deliberate interference in the sense that governments are being changed or altered or something, but lives are being altered on a vast scale. | ||
| I don't feel it is possible to say there's been no interference. | ||
| But that was a remarkable call. | ||
| Would you like that person to contact you privately? | ||
| Well, I would like to hear more. | ||
| Yes, absolutely. | ||
| And that address could be given. | ||
| I would like to talk to him about it. | ||
| As I say, the theory has been around for a long, long time. | ||
| The question is whether or not there's some kind of Official statement coming from, you know, from a research scientist. | ||
| Absolutely. | ||
| All right, Bud. | ||
| That's the news. | ||
| Yes, that might be big news. | ||
| Bud, hold on. | ||
| We've got a couple of things to do. | ||
| Let's get those done. | ||
| And let me give Bud's address. | ||
| write simply to if if box 30233 30233 New York New York 10011. | ||
| Did you get that? | ||
| If, Box 30233, New York, New York, 10011. | ||
| And we'll be back to Bud Hopkins in just a moment. | ||
| I want you to know it. | ||
| OK. | ||
| All right. | ||
| Hello there on the toll-free line. | ||
| You're on the air with Bud Hopkins. | ||
| Where are you calling from? | ||
|
unidentified
|
I'm calling from Grants Pass, Oregon. | |
| Yes, K-O-P-E. | ||
| Yes. | ||
| Go ahead. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Hello there. | |
| Hello there. | ||
| I find this absolutely fascinating. | ||
| Good. | ||
| Who am I speaking to? | ||
| Bud Hopkins. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Have you heard of the Sumerian story of how humans came to Earth? | |
| Are you talking about the ancient astronaut work? | ||
| This is Sitchin's work and so forth? | ||
|
unidentified
|
Yes, about the two brothers who came down from a corrupt planet. | |
| Their father was the leader and his His name was phonetically written as a star. | ||
| One of the brothers had a staff with a snake on it. | ||
| Yeah, this answer you've gotten from such as books, is that right? | ||
|
unidentified
|
Some of them, yes. | |
| And some of the ancient writings of the Sumerians. | ||
| Right. | ||
|
unidentified
|
I find this absolutely fascinating and I find it also plausible. | |
| Do you? | ||
| Since they took the fertilized egg of a human being here on Earth and re-implanted it in the egg of the female astronaut, it seems to me so modern in its concept, then they wouldn't have any idea that this was possible. | ||
| All right, thank you. | ||
| We're way short on time. | ||
| It's almost mythology. | ||
| I hesitate to ever speculate on ancient astronaut issues. | ||
| There's so much going on. | ||
| I've had two people call me not too long ago in the past month. | ||
| Two people call me after they had been returned from an abduction that had ended within about a minute or two from their phone call to me. | ||
| And to worry about the Sumerians at this point in my life seems a long way away. | ||
| I'll leave that to the historian. | ||
| All right, Bud, we're at the bottom of the hour. | ||
| It's almost mythology, isn't it? | ||
| Yes, it really is. | ||
| All right. | ||
| Bud Hopkins is my guest. | ||
| This is Dreamland on a Sunday night. | ||
| I'm Art Bell. | ||
| If you'd like to join us, pick up a telephone. | ||
| I know it's very busy, but keep trying. | ||
| You will get through. | ||
| You're listening to the CBC Network. | ||
|
unidentified
|
This is a pre-recorded, previously broadcast program. | |
| This is a pre-recorded, previously broadcast program. | ||
| From the Kingdom of Nye, we continue with your calls on Greenland with Art Bell. | ||
| Call Art now, toll free at 1-800-618-8255. | ||
| 1-800-618-TALK. | ||
| First time callers, area code 702-727-1222. | ||
| 702-727-1222. | ||
| Or the wildcard line at area code 702-727-1295. | ||
| 1-800-618-TALK. First time callers, area code 702-727-1222. | ||
| 727-1295. | ||
| 702-727-1222. Or the wildcard line at area code 702-727-1295. | ||
| 727-1295. In the 702 area code. Now again, here's Art Bell. | ||
| And Bud Hopkins. Good evening, everybody. | ||
| An unusual opportunity for you to talk to what I think most of us consider to be our nation's premier UFO investigator, Bud Hopkins. | ||
| Bud, are you still there? | ||
| I certainly am, and I'd like to make a comment here. | ||
| Your point was, the man was on a speakerphone a minute ago on the Lawrence Livermore call? | ||
| Well, when I first heard him, I thought it was a speakerphone, and it may have been, and it also sounded like a portable, because I heard it kind of wishing around a little bit. | ||
| Oh, I see. | ||
| What did he say it was? | ||
|
unidentified
|
Uh, what do you mean? | |
| I forgot what he said, what kind of phone it was. | ||
| I'm a little suspicious of the call, frankly. | ||
| Um, yeah, I'm glad you had a chance to think about it. | ||
| You thought it was perhaps not real at all. | ||
| People don't tend to call and say, I'm calling from Lawrence Livermore Laboratories to tell you the truth. | ||
| It's true. | ||
| If someone is from a very highly secure area, making a phone call and having his voice go out and so forth, with apparently sensitive material, it's not the sort of thing that you announce on them. | ||
| It is true. | ||
| We're talking careers here. | ||
| Yes, exactly. | ||
| It's much more likely to say, I'm a truck driver, stop at a truck stop here, but I have this information. | ||
| This is what I have heard, or something. | ||
| Anyway, we can move on, but I just wanted to say, for the audience, I may be doing this gentleman an injustice, but I'm not so sure about it. | ||
| Let's see what you get in the mail. | ||
| Okay. | ||
| Alright, on the toll-free line, you're on the air with Bud Hopkins. | ||
| Good evening. | ||
| Hi, I'd like to... Alright, hold on, sir. | ||
| Don't do anything yet. | ||
| Turn off your radio first. | ||
| That's number one. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Okay. | |
| Alright, now tell us where you're calling from. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Alright, my name is Eric and I'm calling from Eugene, Oregon. | |
| Eugene, Oregon. | ||
| Alright, go ahead. | ||
|
unidentified
|
And I'm calling to find out, are you familiar with Al Belick and his time travel experiments? | |
| Yes. | ||
|
unidentified
|
And how likely are they right now? | |
| How likely do you think they are? | ||
| Alright, thank you. | ||
| That's a question about the credibility of Al Belick. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Yes. | |
| Well, that's a hard question for me to answer because I'm not as familiar with it as I should be. | ||
| I'm aware of it. | ||
| I know that he has devoted a lot of time to writing about it, lecturing about it, and I would prefer to just let this one kind of dangle. | ||
| I don't like to step out in pontificated areas that I'm not as familiar with. | ||
| Sure, as far as my knowledge and information as I should be. | ||
| All right, let's go away from Al Belick, though, and let me ask you about the Philadelphia experiment. | ||
| Did something, in your view, Bud, happen? | ||
| My general sense is that no, it did not happen in the way it was originally reported. | ||
| uh... mister more wrote the book about uh... the philadelphia experiment with | ||
| with their work i believe together uh... | ||
| has since felt that uh... the evidence of not uh... really uh... | ||
| compelling that uh... such an event took place That was a long time ago and obviously every single one of these issues such as that amazing event, the disappearance and reconstitution of a ship and so forth, if something like that were feasible, I think we would have used this in one way or another, militarily or commercially, what not. | ||
| One of the problems, of course, with all of these ideas which verge on conspiracy theory about super-duper government military gear or material that could have military usage is that people forget we went through a war, the Gulf War, recently. | ||
| Of course, we had no real special equipment in that war that gave us the ending we would have liked to have had. | ||
| If we had had some really incredible equipment, I think right now, as I've always said, Saddam Hussein would be sitting in a jail cell right now next to Noriega, and we would still have Bush as president, we would still have the head of the CIA as the head of CIA, the Joint Chiefs of Staff would still be in place, and so on. | ||
| None of that happened. | ||
| All right, well, that's a really good point. | ||
| What about the other major events in fairly distant history? | ||
| The one in New Mexico that Representative Schiff is now going to cause the GAO to apparently investigate. | ||
| Well, that's a very different issue, because that has to do with alien technology, not military technology, such as the Philadelphia experiment would indicate. | ||
| This is an alien event. | ||
| I have absolute Now, after many years of studying the evidence and noticing more evidence as it's accumulated, some very good research, Don Schmidt's been doing wonderful research on that, so has Stan Friedman and a number of people. | ||
| I think that, I definitely feel that something crashed, a UFO crashed, or two perhaps, there was speculation that two collided. | ||
| Bodies were recovered, material was recovered, and I have no doubt about that at this point. | ||
| All right. | ||
| Uh, very good. | ||
| And on the toll-free line, you're on the air with Bud Hopkins. | ||
| Good evening. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Hi, Art. | |
| This is Brandi in Bakersfield. | ||
| Brandi in Bakersfield. | ||
| Hi, Brandi. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Hi. | |
| I was disappointed because baseball preempted this show, so I've only been listening since 8.30. | ||
| Oh, well, we're sorry about that. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Oh, I mean, it's not your fault. | |
| Little people at Keynesia. | ||
| But anyway, I wanted to say it's a pleasure to speak with you, Bud. | ||
| I just wanted to ask you, since you've researched this for many years, do you think that demonology plays any type of role in these abductions? | ||
| And also, is there any way that Whitley Strieber could also come on the show? | ||
| I'll take it off the air, thanks. | ||
| Alright, thank you. | ||
| And of course there is, I'll answer the second question. | ||
| Demonology, I'm sure you get that one a lot, Bud. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| try to explain, we have a basic need to kind of shove the whole | ||
| alien phenomenon, vexing phenomenon, UFO phenomenon, into the idea of gods or devils. | ||
| And I do not connect this with any kind of theological beings, demons, just as I don't connect it with theological | ||
| beings, angels. | ||
| I think that this is a very distinct phenomenon. | ||
| Now, I'm not going to say that I don't believe that there are, necessarily, gods and devils in the real world. | ||
| I don't want to get into a theological hassle here. | ||
| We'll get a million calls from people consigning me to hell for my opinion, so I will stay away from that. | ||
| But I definitely feel that this is its own business. | ||
| It is not connected with demons. | ||
| There are very, very possible mistaking identity situations where people feel the child is possessed of a devil or what not, who is having abduction experiences and it might be kind of hard for some people to tell. | ||
| I had a case where a woman here in New York, her parents were rather not very well educated. | ||
| uh... uh... first-generation uh... italian family and uh... | ||
| they used to bring in the priest every now and then with holy water to | ||
| bless the apartment because the strange little men with big black eyes were | ||
| coming through the wall and what else to do they must be demons | ||
| so there is some confusion here but uh... i think it is a separate | ||
| Well, let me turn the question around. | ||
| Is that one of the main reasons that we're not told about all this, because of the reaction in religious circles? | ||
| Well, I mean, that is certainly possible. | ||
| It creates a lot of problems for religious people, but it is not necessarily an insoluble problem. | ||
| We have to remember, and I should mention that I have worked with a number of born-again Christians who are also abductees, and there was a problem for them of reconciling what was happening to them to their abduction experiences. | ||
| And as I pointed out, you know, many years ago, It was believed back in the time of Galileo that if the idea was accepted that we were not the center of the universe, that we were simply a planet going around the sun amongst many other suns, | ||
| Uh, then that would mean the end of religion. | ||
| Because it was against the Bible, it was this, that, and the other thing. | ||
| And that was what the theologians of the time believed. | ||
| And of course, now, virtually everybody understands that we are just a planet going in a particular solar system. | ||
| But that has not damaged religion. | ||
| Religion managed to, theologians managed to make sense of this. | ||
| And harmonize this new information with the Bible and Christianity has not suffered as a result. | ||
| And I think the same thing can happen with this. | ||
| All right, good. | ||
| Well, I want to get off course here. | ||
| On the first time caller line, you're on the air with Bud Hopkins. | ||
| Good evening. | ||
| Where are you calling from? | ||
|
unidentified
|
Spokane, Washington. | |
| Spokane, Washington. | ||
| All right. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Mr. Hopkins. | |
| Yes, sir. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Yes. | |
| How many of these abduction cases were preceded by a red light, a ball of red light coming to the wall first, like a probe? | ||
| Well, many, many people who have had abduction experiences at one point or another have noticed unusual lights or balls of light in the room with them coming through the wall, coming down the hall, what not. | ||
| Often people describe these lights as Acting as if they're intelligent, as if they're looking at you. | ||
| I'm curious about, since you raised the question, that you must have had an experience along these lines. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Yes, sir. | |
| Much like the one the young lady related about, oh, 15 minutes ago, where she was paralyzed? | ||
| Yeah, well, that's a classic account, yeah. | ||
|
unidentified
|
What was your experience, sir? | |
| Well, I woke up, I called before, and talked to Linda Howe about this, and also Mr. Bell. | ||
| But I woke up to a droning, whirring noise in the room, just whirring, you know, a mechanical droning. | ||
| It woke me up and I looked up and I saw a gigantic crucifix on the wall and the ball | ||
| of light came out of the crucifix and it just pulsated there about the size of a baseball. | ||
| Then it trapped the ceiling, went over the ceiling, went down her side of the room and | ||
| I tried to wake her up and my girlfriend is really light sleeper. | ||
| I said, wake up, please wake up, look at this and she wouldn't wake up. | ||
| When it got on her back it pulsated for 30 minutes on her back and she was sleeping on | ||
| her stomach. | ||
| It then proceeded off her back onto my chest. | ||
| Now once it got on my chest I couldn't scream out no more. | ||
| I couldn't move. | ||
| I started sweating because I was fighting it. | ||
| I was trying to sit up and move. | ||
| All my eyeballs could do was go round and round. | ||
| Next thing I thought I passed out and went to sleep. | ||
| I woke up about an hour and a half later, and the ball of light was leaving my chest, going off my body to the floor, back on the crucifix, where it just pulsated for about a minute. | ||
| And it just went into the crucifix and out the wall, and it took me about, oh, a half an hour to recover before I could get up. | ||
| Right. | ||
| But I was going to ask you, have you ever had anybody, you know, do a study? | ||
| My last name is Simon. | ||
| Uh-huh. | ||
| And have you ever had anybody do a study to see how many people with religious last names, you know, I honestly, Mr. Simon, I don't think there's any reason to think that any particular person is being singled out for this because of their religious beliefs, their last name, or anything of that sort. | ||
| I mean, this is a worldwide phenomenon. | ||
| We're getting this in areas where there are no Christians to speak of, for instance. | ||
| These things are occurring in China and the Orient. | ||
| backwaters of Africa, South America, and so forth, with people with very, very | ||
| definitely non-Christian beliefs. This is not something that is limited to people | ||
| with a particular religious background. I think that's a coincidence in your | ||
| case, sir, but what you described, though, certainly seems like | ||
| something that should be looked into. | ||
| So, again, if you'd like to write, I can put you in touch with somebody perhaps near you. | ||
| Boy, the MO is beginning to sound familiar now, isn't it? | ||
| Absolutely. | ||
| Let me tell you that when we did the Roper survey, one of the questions we asked was, have you ever, and these were not beliefs, these were, have you had these experiences? | ||
| One of the questions they asked was, have you ever seen unusual lights or balls of light in a room with you? | ||
| Which neither you nor anyone else could explain. | ||
| And actually, 8% of the American people said yes to that, which is extraordinary. | ||
| That is extraordinary. | ||
| Four times too many, say, but they cut it down to mistakes or people misread things. | ||
| You're still dealing with a very high percentage. | ||
| And even if it's, as we found with the Roper survey, using five basic indicated questions, One of which dealt with the paralysis, just as both of these people have explained, have described it very eloquently, periods of missing time where they have no idea where they were, how it happened, or why it happened, and so on. | ||
| With these five questions, we came out with 2% of the American people said yes to four out of five of these questions, which would indicate, if they are abductees, and it's certainly likely, We're dealing with perhaps 5 million Americans who have been through this. | ||
| That's a lot of occurrences. | ||
| Bud, hold on just a moment. | ||
| We'll come right back to you. | ||
| Back to the telephones. | ||
| And on the toll-free line, you're on the air with Bud Hopkins. | ||
| Where are you calling from? | ||
|
unidentified
|
San Jose, California. | |
| San Jose, good. | ||
| Hi, Art. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Hello, Bud. | |
| This is Tim from San Jose. | ||
| Well, Tim, how are you? | ||
|
unidentified
|
I'm fine. | |
| How have you been? | ||
| Very well. | ||
|
unidentified
|
I just wanted to share something with you. | |
| Yesterday morning, my daughter and her mom had an experience. | ||
| They had a visitation. | ||
| Her mom woke up with an extremely sore throat, nauseous nose. | ||
| Nasals were stinging, disoriented. | ||
| She had a blue fluid coming from her nose, one nostril. | ||
| Oh, boy. | ||
| She threw up and she called me. | ||
| I was curious if you'd heard of any sort of blue fluid with other cases like that. | ||
| Well, that's coming from a nostril. | ||
| Was there any way of saving any fluid? | ||
|
unidentified
|
She wasn't thinking of that at the time. | |
| We have a lot of different strain fluids from various bodily orifices which have created stains and we have saved the material. | ||
| It's very hard to analyze some of this stuff if you don't have much of it. | ||
| And if it's very embedded in fabric, it's quite expensive to do it. | ||
| But things like that have been reported more often, actually, kind of a brown fluid. | ||
| How about your daughter? | ||
| She seemed to be okay. | ||
|
unidentified
|
We took her to an emergency pediatrician just to make sure. | |
| I tried to share this phenomenon with him. | ||
| I showed him the pamphlet that you and the Bigelow Foundation wrote. | ||
| unusual personal experiences I think it is. He wasn't receptive at all. He laughed about | ||
| it and shrugged it off and didn't even want to take the pamphlet. | ||
| Did she report anything specifically happening? Her recollections? | ||
| The daughter? | ||
|
unidentified
|
No, she had no recollection of the event. Was there anything physical? | |
| Not to her, but to her mother. More to her mother than to her. Let's hope | ||
| she wasn't taken. | ||
| These have been extremely difficult situations to handle for. | ||
| A family, but I think you're doing a fine job. | ||
| Would you recommend somebody like that, Bud, investigate, further contact somebody, find out if, in fact, the child or the mother or both were taken? | ||
| Well, I certainly would. | ||
| The mother has worked with a psychologist in the area who's very, very helpful, done a very good job, and since I know Tim, there are various people in the area, including another pediatrician and others who could be helpful. | ||
| We do have quite a A group that is generally in the San Francisco area. | ||
| But we have some very good people out there. | ||
| So, Tim has got some support, which is very helpful to him. | ||
| But is there any geographic area that is visited more frequently, apparently, or is it just simply completely random? | ||
| It's very, very hard to tell, because obviously what you hear about is only what the press or letter writers or whatever are willing to present. And of | ||
| course if it's a very conservative community where this is frowned upon, you're not going to | ||
| get people talking about it as openly. For instance, in New York City, I have people | ||
| reporting these experiences who are, let's say, white middle class people, etc. | ||
| I have quite a few African American background people and Hispanics, but very few Orientals. | ||
| And it isn't that I think this isn't happening to Oriental people, but I think that in such numbers, I think that there's a reticence, perhaps, as a societal norm Uh, in that particular group to talk about this sort of thing. | ||
| Some sort of cultural bias. | ||
| Exactly. | ||
| So if you go to, for instance, the Bible Belt, uh, at town in the south, there might be a lot going on, but it might be attributed to, uh, uh, to demons, or it might be something that people feel hesitant to talk about, and so you simply would think, well, we have a big blank in this area, we're not getting any reports, and that might not be the case. | ||
| No, that's a good point. | ||
| Uh, on the wild card line, you're on the air with Bud Hopkins. | ||
| Good evening. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Yes, good evening, Art. | |
| Fascinating show this evening, because I'm curious, going back to when you talked about a lot of this happens to children when they're younger. | ||
| Have you ever just discovered that this was either a cover-up for child abuse, or that child abusers have used this guise for UFO abduction? | ||
| All right. | ||
| Or, Bud, the other way around. | ||
| See, that's a very interesting point, and I'm glad you brought that up, because this has been Uh, let's say the explanation du jour of many groups of skeptics on the subject that the essential point is | ||
| People, they believe, are being sexually abused and are somehow blanking out that memory and substituting for it a fantasy where they bring in aliens, which is an issue they can handle better than the fact that it was old Uncle Sid or Aunt Martha or whatever, whoever who did the abusing. | ||
| And of course, if that were the case, we would expect to find amongst abductees a very low level of people reporting sexual abuse. | ||
| And in fact, from the work that was done by Dr. Kenneth Ring and other people with abductees, we get just as high a percentage of abductees reporting sexual abuse by normal humans in the bad old way as we get with people who have not had abductions. | ||
| So there's no sense that then these people are, as a group, are substituting abduction experiences. | ||
| Since they're remembering the child abuse, too. | ||
| What's more, and I'll give you a very quick and very sad story, I have a number of cases like this. | ||
| In this case, told me by the mother, her little boy, and this is rather graphic and I'm sorry about this, but her little boy at the age of, I think he was five or four, she was divorced. | ||
| The husband had visiting rights and the little boy would stay with him on the weekends. | ||
| And, uh, the mother said that it was a registered nurse. | ||
| She found her little boy, uh, in his bedroom with a screwdriver. | ||
| Which he was trying to insert in his rectum. | ||
| Oh my God. | ||
| And he told her, when she was, of course, horrified, he said, that's what the man does. | ||
| He uses a tool or something like this. | ||
| Well, at any rate, she naturally assumed sexual abuse on the part of her husband, who vehemently denied it. | ||
| But she went to court and got a court order barring her husband, permanently, any visiting rights whatsoever with the child. | ||
| The husband moved away and within a couple of months the child was again talking and | ||
| he had some damage to the rectal tissues. | ||
| He said the men had come in again and they had big black eyes and he was frightened and | ||
| they had used some instrument there. | ||
| That plus a whole other range of things he was describing. | ||
| I wonder how many times Uncle Sid is in jail because of an abduction. | ||
| I can assure you that it must have happened because I have many cases where a woman had | ||
| thought that she had been raped by her father at the age of 12. | ||
| And she had harbored these feelings all her life, never accused him, he never really changed his behavior, but the description of the rape scene, which I can't even go into, it's very, very odd. | ||
| There's nothing about it that sounds like a rape, but her father was present, and as we explored the experience, it seems that it was an abduction of the two of them. | ||
| And at one point he was in the ship without clothes as she was in the ship without clothes and things were being done to the two of them. | ||
| So it was interpreted as a rape. | ||
| But I can assure you that just even the questioning of what she remembered consciously had nothing | ||
| about it that suggested violence. | ||
| She remembered that she was lying down, that she was unable to move, that she had no clothes | ||
| on whatsoever. | ||
| There was no sense of any violence or struggle. | ||
| She felt that something was inserted into her body. | ||
| There was no sense of another figure, of another body in relation to hers, etc. | ||
| That her father was standing off to one side and moving. | ||
| It wasn't me, it was the grave. | ||
| No, it wouldn't hold any water, and I really do feel... You see, there may be some cases, I would not ever say that there aren't any cases where what the gentleman suggested might not have happened, where somebody could have invented some sort of story. | ||
| Lord knows, the mind is very fertile when it comes to trying... | ||
| A lot of the abduction accounts talk about implants and the spike in the nose, nasal | ||
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area. | |
| My question is why don't we see these devices and it would seem to me that if someone felt | ||
| they had an implant in their nasal area that they'd go and get some type of scan like an | ||
| MRI or a PET scan. | ||
| Right. | ||
| It seemed like it'd be really easy to detect something like that. | ||
| With the technology that we have today. | ||
| Alright, well that is a good question. | ||
| Very good question. | ||
| And have we detected any, Bud? | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| Now, this is a complicated subject I'm getting much more interested in as time goes on. | ||
| There have been, I know it now personally, two cases where an x-ray indicated the presence of a strange object. | ||
| And before the x-ray, before anybody could do anything about the situation, in one case the x-ray was not in the possession of the person with the implant until a week after it was taken. | ||
| That person was reabducted, found herself bleeding from the nostril when she woke up in the morning, and evidently our little friends in the sky had come back and removed it. | ||
| as if when the x-ray was taken some alarm bell goes off so to speak and they come and take it. | ||
| The second case happened to be a woman in, whose child, it was actually the child involved, was about | ||
| a five-year-old girl who had been having abduction experiences and she had an | ||
| accident completely unconnected with UFOs. | ||
| She fell off her bicycle or some such thing and they thought she had fractured her skull and she was taken to the hospital whereupon the doctors, this again in Italy, discovered a strange object. | ||
| By the time she was taken back to the army base where her father was stationed in Germany, and she was re-X-rayed, again, the object was no longer there. | ||
| Now, I have those X-rays in my possession, and they, beyond any doubt, show foreign objects of metallic origin. | ||
| These have been looked at by Dr. Paul Cooper, who is a neurosurgeon, who is a friend of mine, who looks at such things for me. | ||
| I have recently received a case from of again a woman, an abductee, who in another accident | ||
| thought she had fractured her skull and the radiological report describes a metallic object in | ||
| the parasagittal area of the brain. | ||
| I know through the investigator Barbara Bartolek, who has done some very fine work on this, | ||
| I have other images of, actually it's a videotape of the x-ray and MRI showing a foreign object | ||
| in the medulla and another one which shows an odd object with a very clear cut symmetrical | ||
| shape in the hip bone. | ||
| And the man had been abducted, had terrible pain in his hip and even a scar right opposite where this object seemed to be. | ||
| I don't know what Barbara Barkalik is doing with those cases, but the point is the ones that are in the head, are in places where it would be extremely dangerous to try | ||
| to retrieve them. | ||
| There have been some objects that have been recovered from the nostril | ||
| and two from the underside of a different man's penises of all things. | ||
| These objects are not radio opaque, do not have any kind of heavy metallic makeup. | ||
| They're a lot of more organic elements, carbon, silicon, and so forth. | ||
| I believe, I don't know on what program, but I saw somebody actually holding one, Bud, which appeared to be triangular in shape and kind of crystalline. | ||
| Yeah, that's the glass-like object. | ||
| We don't know much about... I mean, I've held that in my hand, too. | ||
| Oh, you have? | ||
| I actually have held several of these things. | ||
| However, this is the big problem. | ||
| The objects that have been recovered so far, unlike these metallic objects that we have not recovered, are made of enough familiar elements, especially, as I said, silicon, carbon, and so forth, that no scientist is going to say there's no way that this object couldn't have originated on Earth. | ||
| It would be a bit of a problem to imagine how an object lodges under the skin on the underside of a man's penis. | ||
| But nevertheless, it's possible to imagine an alien implant, which is made of fairly neutral materials, but which is charged in such a way that it does what they need it to do. | ||
| We really have no way of knowing what these objects do, why they're there, and I always use the example to show how complicated it would be to guess alien motivations. | ||
| All right, well, what about this, Bud? | ||
| In the case of the ones you talk about, where they have it in a portion of the brain, Yeah. | ||
| Is anybody talking to these people about signing a release for when they die? | ||
| That's what I would like to do. | ||
| That's what we have to do. | ||
| The idea of autopsies, that's something we have to go into now. | ||
| It's very possible that these objects somehow can be removed by the aliens without leaving scars or marks. | ||
| Obviously, their technology, if they could move a person through a closed surface, presumably they could move a metallic implant through the skull without leaving a hole. | ||
| How that happens, we have no way of knowing. | ||
| It sounds totally off the wall, and yet the evidence would suggest that's the case. | ||
| At the same time, that sometimes when these things are put in the nostril or the ear, there is bleeding. | ||
| But are we kind of like the caveman tinkering with the Sony? | ||
| It might be, but I use the example that if you imagine a very primitive Stone Age tribe In the jungles of New Guinea or something like that, coming across the body of a dead anthropologist and finding a pacemaker in that man's body, they would not have the slightest idea as to the function of that object. | ||
| Exactly so. | ||
| All right. | ||
| Well, let's keep moving. | ||
| A lot of phone calls. | ||
| And on the first time caller line, you're on the air with Bud Hopkins. | ||
| Where are you calling from, please? | ||
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Reno, Nevada. | |
| Reno, Nevada. | ||
| Yes, sir. | ||
|
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Am I on the air? | |
| Yeah, you're on the air. | ||
|
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Go ahead. | |
| This kind of goes with the last caller. | ||
| I was wondering if there were any other symptoms that identify abduction victims. | ||
| Number one, unexplained, fast healing injuries. | ||
| Number two, constant bloody noses. | ||
| Number three, blackouts. | ||
| What I would call unexplained timeouts. | ||
| Well, that's more to the point, yeah. | ||
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Okay, well, I got a whole list here, though, and there's only about three more. | |
| High intelligence in the victims or unsubstantiated strength. | ||
| Substance abuse in people that may have been passing abduction victims. | ||
| All right, caller. | ||
| Thank you. | ||
| Is there any... The list is... I mean, a lot of the things you said are very important. | ||
| Now, the issue of unsubstantiated intelligence, we have to also know... I've got a case of a man who was abducted who was severely retarded. | ||
| I also have cases, one of the most bizarre things I've ever heard of, two people who were comatose in a hospital who had been in a comatose state for a long time. | ||
| Evidently, after a yawful visit to the hospital, showed puncture marks in the abdomen of the woman and a fission on the underside of the penis of the man. | ||
| These are people who haven't been conscious for It's hard to know. | ||
| Also, the substance abuse issue does come up because these are very psychologically undermining experiences. | ||
| One is thrown into self-doubt from the beginning. | ||
| Am I crazy? | ||
| What's going on here? | ||
| This can't be real, etc., etc. | ||
| This can lead to that sort of problem. | ||
| Much of what you said is accurate. | ||
| Thank you for bringing this up. | ||
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Right. | |
| Is there any particular profile of abductees? | ||
| Are they brighter? | ||
| Are they lower on the scale of intelligence? | ||
| It's totally across the board. | ||
| And the demographics, when we did the Roper survey of people who had answered yes to four out of five of our indicator questions, we thought were possibly abductees. | ||
| Just fell across all ethnic, racial, gender, socio-economic, educational levels and so forth. | ||
| There was no consistency. | ||
| All right, on the toll-free line, you're on the air with Bud Hopkins. | ||
| Good evening. | ||
| Where are you calling from? | ||
| Yes, I'm calling from Seattle, Washington. | ||
| Seattle, yes. | ||
| Bud? | ||
| Yes, hi, Bud. | ||
| Listen, I've been trying to discuss this situation for a long time, and I tried calling that | ||
| number out in Arizona, and they would never return my call. | ||
| Here's what happened. | ||
| The night that all of the lights went out, On the East Coast. | ||
| I think it was like 65 or 66. | ||
| Well, that afternoon, while I was with my parent, my mother, we were driving in West Covina, California, and I would say I saw flying saucer. | ||
| This thing was about, I'd say it was between 7 and 8,000 feet. | ||
| I was amazed at the time because I was a young fellow, about 15. | ||
| I saw three or four jet planes Following it, and I noticed that they fired what I thought was a missile, and the thing exploded. | ||
| And it was headed eastbound, this would have been toward the Pomona area, and that night, as I say, all of the lights went out on the east coast. | ||
| The lights also went out in the San Gabriel Valley of California around 8.30 that night. | ||
| Well, you said you reported this to a number in Arizona. | ||
| I'm not sure what number. | ||
| There are lots of numbers that come and go here. | ||
| Yes. | ||
| Well, I would appreciate it if you could write to us at the address that we've given, and we'd be happy to have somebody get in touch with you and get some more information. | ||
| Yes, I'd be happy to. | ||
| And I thank you very much. | ||
| All right. | ||
| Thank you, Colin. | ||
| All right. | ||
| But what about effects of UFOs? | ||
| Electromagnetic effects on radios, television, automobiles. | ||
| Any sense to any of that? | ||
| Oh, absolutely. | ||
| It goes with the territory. | ||
| We, again, don't know whether this is deliberate, whether they can sort of zap someone's car, or whether it's a side effect of whatever proposal system they're using, whatever that is. | ||
| But just to tell you a really fascinating recent situation, Dr. David Jacobs, uh... was working with a woman who i was quite pet petrified | ||
| she thought something's going to happen to her that night she called | ||
| him her husband's way the two children were asleep | ||
| uh... anyway that's a big a long story short he uh... it got her to set up a video camera in the bedroom | ||
| which he had used another occasion some trained on the bed | ||
| uh... and uh... she went to sleep uh... there was enough light and it was set at | ||
| half speed so it would run for eight hours Right. | ||
| Uh, she went to sleep with the children in the bed. | ||
| When she woke up in the morning, there was, uh, uh, she'd been asleep about eight hours, and there was still 25% of the tape unexposed. | ||
| And, uh, it was still running. | ||
| When she turned the tape on, it, uh, it showed the image of her waking up, which she did not remember, getting out of bed, and carrying each of the children away from the bedroom. | ||
| So the bed was empty. | ||
| Oh my. | ||
| And the very next shot, she was all, she was back in bed with the two children. | ||
| But it did not show her walking from the camera back to the bed. | ||
| That gives me the heebie-jeebies. | ||
| Now, that means that that camera had stopped, whether the power was interrupted, and it was off for the time that the abduction evidently took place. | ||
| And so when she was placed back in bed, this is all speculation, but when she was placed back in bed with the children, All right, I've got one other question in this area, and I'll get to it as soon as we come back. | ||
| Take a brief break. | ||
| impossibility that there is no way that the film could have stopped and started this way | ||
| without somebody doing it or some interruption of the power supply. | ||
| Otherwise, he would have filmed himself getting in bed. | ||
| All right, I've got one other question in this area, and I'll get to it as soon as we | ||
| come back. | ||
| Take a brief break. | ||
| Bud Hopkins is my guest, and we'll be right back. | ||
| The hard one to test is right. | ||
| All right. | ||
| On the toll-free line, you're on the air with Bud Hopkins. | ||
| Good evening. | ||
| Hello. | ||
| I'm pleased to finally get through. | ||
| Where are you, sir? | ||
| I'm calling from the Reno area. | ||
| Reno, okay. | ||
| K-O-H, no doubt. | ||
| Yes, absolutely. | ||
| Bud, I have a little description of an incident I had while flying in an airplane myself. | ||
| As a pilot, I'm a private pilot. | ||
| I was eastbound out of Sacramento, California, heading towards Placerville, just a little south of Mather Air Force Base, which was an active base. | ||
| It was about 10 years ago. | ||
| I don't remember the exact date. | ||
| I remember it as springtime. | ||
| And off in the distance, about my 11 o'clock range, field of view, I saw a very bright light. | ||
| My first interpretation was it was probably a B-52 out there with his landing light on, on approach to Mather. | ||
| So I just studied it and watched it and kept note of it because he was out there where in the direction I was flying. | ||
| And all of a sudden, this light proceeded north at an extremely high rate of speed. | ||
| And I mean extremely, it went almost out of sight within, say, two seconds. | ||
| That's fast. | ||
| And the funny part about it, if that was an aircraft of any type, a vehicle that navigates | ||
| through the air, and had a headlight on the front of it, or a landing light on the front | ||
| of it, if he turned away from me, the light would disappear. | ||
| Exactly, yeah. | ||
| And this light did not. | ||
| It grew dim as it proceeded into the distance. | ||
| And I just kind of logged that myself in my own mind to say, well, I wonder if I'm going to see something like that ever again, which I never did. | ||
| I have heard of similar reports, but that's the only one I ever had. | ||
| Well, that's a good one, and I'd appreciate it if you wrote in so we could get some of the data down, and there are people who collect these reports. | ||
| Incidentally, I don't want to alarm you, but I have dealt with three different pilots, private pilots, who had UFO sightings, and who had, while they were flying, And actually two of them were daytime, one at night, and they had missing time experiences in the air. | ||
| In the air longer than they had fuel for. | ||
| Oh, happily that's not happened to me. | ||
| I know, that's why I said they want to lie to you. | ||
| You just got to look at one. | ||
| The one you thought was just going by, but I mean, literally this seems to have happened. | ||
| Within the time period of that experience or sometime later? | ||
| No, while they were in the air. | ||
| All right, and I want to interject here, if I might, to call our question. | ||
| You remember Close Encounters of the Third Kind, that magic moment where the controller said, do you want to report a UFO? | ||
| Yes. | ||
| Did you? | ||
| I didn't see that movie. | ||
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Did you? | |
| But you reminded me, I asked Approach Control if they saw something on the radar that proceeded north at a high rate of speed, and they reported negative. | ||
| And I have another question for you, Bud. | ||
| Do you recall back in the 50s and into the 60s, the Air Force had an operation called Operation Blue Book. | ||
| It was supposedly the big government collection of data on UFOs. | ||
| It was called Project Blue Book, and it was very little, actually. | ||
| It was billed as big, but it was little. | ||
| Go ahead. | ||
| Well, was that ever declassified? | ||
| Have you ever had access to the... Oh yeah, the material was declassified, but what's happened is that some other reports that we have found out about were declassified separately. | ||
| Material was released about some very good sightings. | ||
| We found out they were not in Project Blue Book. | ||
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Really? | |
| And so the suggestion was that the really best cases were not put there. | ||
| So it's a very ambiguous story. | ||
| It's complicated. | ||
| Yes. | ||
| I have a little anecdotal information on that. | ||
| Very quickly. | ||
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Okay. | |
| I have a friend who was in Germany in the Air Force subsequent to that, who was highly classified. | ||
| I mean, he was working on a highly classified project. | ||
| Alright, well that has to be the end of that, too. | ||
| operation blue book passed say what about this number | ||
| down in the ball tell me about he says i do not want to discuss it | ||
| and that is the and of that alright well that has to be the end of that to thank you | ||
| very much for your and uh... but we're going to have to take a break here at | ||
| the bottom of the Do you have any quick comments on what he said? | ||
| No, we will be when we come back. | ||
| All right, very good. | ||
| We'll do that indeed at that time. | ||
| You're listening to the CBC Radio Network. | ||
| I want to remind everybody for copies of this program. | ||
| You can call at any time, 24 hours a day, area code 503-664-7966. | ||
|
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503-664-7966. | |
| Sorry to make it. | ||
| Where are you? | ||
| I'm in Gig Harbor. | ||
| Gig Harbor, Washington, alright. | ||
|
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Yeah, KPI. | |
| Yes, go right ahead. | ||
| So I had to make it. | ||
| Where are you? | ||
|
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I'm in Gig Harbor. | |
| Gig Harbor, Washington, alright. | ||
|
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Yeah, KPI. | |
| Yes, go right ahead. | ||
| A very weird time loss, and I think the whole town experienced the same thing, aren't they? | ||
| The whole town? | ||
| Tell us about it. | ||
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Okay. | |
| I was leaving, I live on the Olympic Peninsula, Gate Harbor. | ||
| I was going to my summer home up by Canada at Twin Lakes in Colville. | ||
| And in a town called Euphrata, which is across the Columbia River, I hit a stop light, and I was stopped there. | ||
| I was the first car in line. | ||
| There were no cars behind me. | ||
| A very odd thing, it was about 110 degrees out, the middle of the summer, very hot area. | ||
| Someone in a full jumpsuit, kind of a bright orange jumpsuit, was crossing the road. | ||
| I mean, the whole thing was very unusual. | ||
| Basically, I had what I felt was a time lapse, a blank out. | ||
| When I came back to, there were about 30 cars behind me. | ||
| No one was honking any horns. | ||
| Everyone seemed to witness the same thing. | ||
| And the person was gone. | ||
| The light was green. | ||
| No one was upset. | ||
| Everyone seemed very content. | ||
| And I found it highly unusual. | ||
| Well, actually, were the cars on the opposite side coming towards you stop, too? | ||
|
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There were no cars on the other side at all. | |
| But 30 on your side, which is... Yeah, it was like a city block backed up behind me, but nothing coming towards you. | ||
|
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Pardon? | |
| Nothing coming towards you. | ||
| That's very odd. | ||
|
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Yeah, exactly. | |
| How did he move? | ||
| Did he look normal? | ||
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He was walking apparently like a normal human being. | |
| I'm telling you, I've never seen anything like this. | ||
| I have no explanation for what happened. | ||
| Well, I would like to hear from you about that, sir. | ||
| If you could write to me at the address that I'm sure Art will give again. | ||
| I would like to follow up on this because we have cases like this which involve quite a few cars. | ||
| These experiences, many people Do you have any idea how much time elapsed? | ||
| That's the whole thing. | ||
| to happen to one person at a time, but I have cases which involve conceivably hundreds of | ||
| people at once. | ||
| And certainly in abduction cases where I've investigated them, the same experience happened | ||
| to everybody, seven people at once and so forth. | ||
| But your situation I think should be looked into. | ||
| Do you have any idea of how much time elapsed? | ||
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See, that's the whole thing is I'm really not certain because it, well, things like | |
| this happen out of the blue. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| Did you ever dream about this afterwards? | ||
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No, I really didn't. | |
| I told my wife about it. | ||
| I told people about it. | ||
| And everybody kind of said, well, you know, you probably just... | ||
| Kind of heat exhaustion or something like that. | ||
| You send me a letter with your name and address and maybe I can give you a phone call back because it's something I'd like to follow up. | ||
| Alright, good. | ||
|
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Thank you very much. | |
| Please do that, caller. | ||
| And, Bud, there are a lot of plane crashes. | ||
| Not a lot, but a significant number. | ||
| And, of course, car crashes. | ||
| And I guess I want to ask, could some of them be the result of some sort of time loss and improper recovery? | ||
| Well, things like that could happen. | ||
| Obviously, the after effects of these experiences are unfortunate enough just psychologically. | ||
| I hate to suggest even more possible problems to people, but things have happened. | ||
| I did look into an automobile accident once that seemed to have had causes related to this where it would seem nothing was done deliberately, but in one case it seems the car was stopped, the people were switched off or taken, and then the car was started up before the people were fully conscious in an accident. | ||
| Alright, uh, on the first time caller line, you're on the air with Bud Hopkins. | ||
| Good evening. | ||
|
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Good evening. | |
| Turn off your radio, please. | ||
|
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You bet. | |
| Right now. | ||
| Alright, and tell us where you're calling from. | ||
|
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Good evening. | |
| Hello? | ||
| Yes, hello. | ||
| Uh, tell us where you're calling from, sir. | ||
|
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Uh, Sacramento, but I'm... They won't, uh, publish, or they won't broadcast your stations. | |
| I got 78 over in San Francisco, if that's very clear. | ||
| Alright. | ||
|
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Two questions. | |
| Question to Bud Hopkins. | ||
| I wrote him a letter a couple years ago about a crash of a UFO in Jacksonville near the | ||
| Naval Air Station in 1964. | ||
| And he had so many letters coming in that he sent me a foreign letter back. | ||
| And I tried to give him as many details as I could. | ||
| They found three bodies in this about, all this craft was about 20, 25 feet diameter. | ||
| The people were about 36 inches high, that's about it. | ||
| Were you involved in this personally? | ||
|
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No, I was stopped on the highway. | |
| They had all kinds of police, fire, everybody, the Navy. | ||
| I went to the Naval Base the next day. | ||
| I was interviewing the people there. | ||
| No, you certainly wrote to me rather than to some other organization. | ||
|
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Yeah, but I wrote to you. | |
| You did? | ||
| Okay. | ||
|
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Well, I wrote to Stan Friedman, too. | |
| Yeah, but I'll have to look into it in my files. | ||
| Would you ever send me a postcard with your name and address and explain it so I can then look up your letter? | ||
|
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Yeah. | |
| Okay? | ||
| Alright, do that, caller. | ||
| Send him up. | ||
| Thank you very much, and I'm sorry. | ||
| I hope that I, you know, didn't just drop this one. | ||
| Okay. | ||
| Thank you very much, sir. | ||
| Is it hard to handle the amount of mail that you get, Bud? | ||
| Oh, it's extraordinary. | ||
| I'm still getting, I figure even though the books have been out for quite a while, Intruders of Missing Time, I'm still getting probably two new cases, potential cases a day. | ||
| Oh brother. | ||
| Some of these people are calling in tears and terrified. | ||
| I have some people working with me, some volunteers, and I've gotten some funding and so forth. | ||
| Our organization, that's one of the things with Intruders Foundation, we have a newsletter And we're just about to do another one. | ||
| We're way behind at getting it out. | ||
| It's 22 pages. | ||
| I believe that's it. | ||
| And we're going to be dealing with children's experiences and how to handle the problem if your little child is reporting these experiences. | ||
| But at any rate, if people subscribe, it's $25 a year. | ||
| And that entitles you to four of the newsletters plus special reports from time to time. | ||
| And the knowledge that you're helping to support Uh, a referral service, which is national. | ||
| All right, uh, and I presume they could contact, get that through the same address, is that correct? | ||
| Yes, exactly, that same address. | ||
| All right. | ||
| For information, we'll send the material. | ||
| All right, and that address is IF, uh, Box 30233. | ||
| New York, New York, zip code 10011. | ||
| That's IF, box 30233. | ||
| New York, New York, 10011. | ||
| Do I have it correct? | ||
| That's correct, yes. | ||
| Alright, good. | ||
| On the toll-free line, you're on the air with Bud Hopkins. | ||
| Good evening. | ||
|
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Yes, this is Brian from Seattle. | |
| Yes, Brian. | ||
|
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And this is going to sound crazy, but of course everything you're talking about, you know, someone who's not really, uh, oh well. | |
| Anyway, um... Thanks, Brian. | ||
|
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Yeah. | |
| I haven't been listening for about 10 minutes, so I don't know what you've been talking about, but about the abductions and the implants? | ||
| Yes. | ||
|
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And of course, when you enter into these discussions, you have levels of credibility and proof that really work along a mathematical scale. | |
| The more you can really prove, the less you really find out. | ||
| So, as a preliminary statement, you might want to listen more to the uncredible or the people you might be able to really discredit their information because they smoke and they drink and that kind of thing. | ||
| Anyway, I have this thing in my nose. | ||
| I always wondered what it was. | ||
| I've got these things in my ears, too. | ||
| But they're really small. | ||
| They seem organic. | ||
| I didn't know what it was. | ||
| Maybe some kind of a calcium deposit or something. | ||
| I don't know. | ||
| For me, it's not a scary thing because that's kind of me, in a way. | ||
| How do you know they're there? | ||
| I can feel them. | ||
|
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I mean, just very slightly, but I know they're there. | |
| I mean, see, here's the thing. | ||
| You're talking about credibility. | ||
| I mean, like, you're saying, I'm going to have them checked out and all this kind of stuff, and here's the very thing you were saying about, well, well, gee, now that the x-ray showed it up, then they came and took it back or something. | ||
| Butler, do you have any reason to believe they're not calcium deposits? | ||
|
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No. | |
| However... Well, my feeling is if you're really concerned about it, curious about it, I really haven't looked at it. | ||
| Buy an ENT man is what you really need to do. | ||
|
unidentified
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Right. | |
| And he can tell you whether it's strange or whether it's an explanation and... In other words, call or go to the doctor. | ||
| You could help us out a lot with this. You could help us too. I get it. Alright. Nice talking to you. You have a | ||
| happy Easter. Thank you. Interesting. He calls you as though you are going to declare they are suddenly alien | ||
| objects. I guess people have to go out and find out for themselves. On the wild card line, you're on the air with | ||
| Bud Hopkins. Good evening. | ||
|
unidentified
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Mr. Hopkins and Mr. Bill, I think most reported cases of abduction by aliens are not true, but there are some authentic cases. | |
| These are examples of a government program of mind control in which people are given a hypnotic suggestion that they | ||
| have been kidnapped by aliens. | ||
| So if the listeners want the truth about this, They should get a copy of Martin Cannon's book, The Controllers, from a mail-order service called Prevailing Winds Research in Santa Barbara. | ||
| All right, well, thank you. | ||
| I know about the Martin Cannon series, and I think that the government does a lot of nasty things, and perhaps some branches have done some nasty things, but it has nothing to do with explaining abduction accounts, because if this were the case, it would have had to have started practically under Grover Cleveland or something like that, in terms of the president. | ||
| All right. | ||
| On the, uh, toll-free line, you're on the air with Bud Hopkins. | ||
| Good evening. | ||
|
unidentified
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Good evening. | |
| Hi. | ||
| Where are you, sir? | ||
|
unidentified
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This is another Art from Edmonds, Washington. | |
| Edmonds, Washington. | ||
| All right. | ||
| Good, Art. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Mm-hmm. | |
| As I, uh, listen to your program, I'm also sitting here reading the April issue of, uh, Harmony Magazine. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Mm-hmm. | |
| And the lion's share of this magazine covers the same topic that you're talking about. | ||
|
unidentified
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I just wondered if Bob would know, uh, Some of the people I mentioned, one of them is Bob Lazar, L-A-Z-A-R. | |
| Right. | ||
| Who is a propulsion system engineer who claims to have been hired to examine one of the disks that they had found. | ||
| And he claims that it is propelled by gravity waves. | ||
| Yes, all right. | ||
| Listen on the air. | ||
| Bud, not Bob, but Bud, are you familiar with the Lazar story? | ||
| Oh, yes, I am. | ||
| And George Knapp is the investigator who's done the most careful work in relation to the Lazar case. | ||
| And it's an ambiguous case, but there seems to be some solid evidence for his claims. | ||
| I think it's an extremely difficult topic to go into at any depth, and since it's outside | ||
| my area of expertise, really, I think that George Knapp would be the man to talk to about | ||
| that bit. | ||
| All right, and we do speak with him frequently. | ||
| Okay. | ||
| Bud, stand by just one second. | ||
| We'll be right back to you. | ||
| All right. | ||
| Back to Bud Hopkins. | ||
| Are you there, Bud? | ||
| I certainly am. | ||
| All right. | ||
| Time is short. | ||
| On our toll-free line, you're on the air with Bud Hopkins. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Hi. | |
| Where are you calling from? | ||
|
unidentified
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I'm calling from Richland, Washington. | |
| Richland. | ||
| Yes, ma'am. | ||
|
unidentified
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My name is Gail. | |
| I'm curious to know what Bud's opinion is on speculation that our government Uh, is well aware of the abductions and the alien things that are going on, but either can't do anything about it and so keep it hushed up or they're getting something in return and so keep it hushed up. | ||
| Alright, I think his view is the first rather than the latter. | ||
| Yes, we've gone into that and I definitely think they're aware. | ||
| I don't have any doubt about that. | ||
| But I don't think there's any swap involved. | ||
| We're not getting anything out of this. | ||
| Alright, on the wild card line, you're on the air with Bud Hopkins. | ||
| Good evening, where are you calling from? | ||
|
unidentified
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I'm calling from Reno. | |
| Reno, Nevada, yes. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Bud, is there any other technique of remembering an abduction experience other than hypnosis that you know of? | |
| Alright, thank you. | ||
| That's a good question. | ||
| There is another technique that has been used, and of course people have talked about sodium pentothal and that type of thing, although that's not something I I don't have any use for myself. | ||
| Hypnotic regression works very, very well. | ||
| There is a new technique which is being used by some psychologists that involves rapid movement of the eyes to, I don't know what the motor connection is with memory, but there seems to be one and it has been used successfully by a number of people to elicit information. | ||
| You would have to go to somebody trained in that technique, but hypnosis is a very useful technique in the meantime, and safe. | ||
| All right, good. | ||
| On the wildcard line, you're on the air with Bud Hopkins. | ||
| Hello there. | ||
| Where are you, please? | ||
|
unidentified
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In Seattle. | |
| This is Jackie. | ||
| All right, Jackie. | ||
| You're hard to hear. | ||
| Get close to the phone and ask a question. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Okay. | |
| Can you hear me now? | ||
| Yes, we can. | ||
| What's up, Jackie? | ||
|
unidentified
|
Hi, Bud. | |
| Hi. | ||
| I was just wondering if you noticed any significant trends in UFOs? | ||
| Like in the things that they're doing? | ||
| Trends, changes. | ||
| Well, yes, in the sense that new things are coming to light all the time, and we don't | ||
| know whether they're a new trend or whether they've been going on for a long time. | ||
| This particular thing I'm going to mention I think has been going on a long time and | ||
| that is the UFO occupants seem very interested in how we form relationships. | ||
| I just dealt with a couple who were about to get married and they were in their 20s | ||
| and when they first met exactly a year ago they realized that they knew one another. | ||
| They didn't know how but they knew a lot about each other and there were some amazing connections | ||
| I mean since one of them remembered that the other had a birthmark on his chest. | ||
| Oh boy. | ||
| Uh, they knew a lot about their backgrounds and how they looked and talked when they were younger and how they fixed their hair and everything else. | ||
| And it seems that they have been abducted over different periods of time at intervals and brought together as if the aliens were studying long-term the way relationships are formed. | ||
| Believe it or not, I have now maybe six or seven cases like this. | ||
| Now this is something that has not really ever been made public and I don't think it's all that common. | ||
| But it definitely seems that this has been a systematic arrangement, and even to this point that there's a man in the United States in his 40s, who when he met an English woman here in the United States for the first time, she's about 41, they realized that they've known each other. | ||
| They couldn't place where. | ||
| They're both abductees, and when we looked into these experiences, they were first abducted when they were children. | ||
| That implies alien matchmaking. | ||
| Well, it sort of does. | ||
| The great dating service in the sky. | ||
| Yeah, that's right. | ||
| But the basic point is that these people assumed all along when they remembered... | ||
| That they knew somebody. | ||
| They assumed, well, it's a dream or something. | ||
| I'm having a dream companion, but it's real. | ||
| Wow. | ||
| Toll Free Line, you're on the air with Bud Hopkins. | ||
| Time is short. | ||
| Where are you calling from? | ||
| Tacoma, Washington. | ||
| All right. | ||
| You're on the air. | ||
| Go ahead. | ||
| Well, thank you. | ||
| Mr. Hopkins. | ||
| Yes, sir. | ||
| Just a little while ago, I read a book by Jacobs called Secret Life. | ||
| Very good book, too. | ||
| An excellent book. | ||
| And I'm right smack dab in the middle of a book called Abduction by Dr. John Mack. | ||
| Yes. | ||
| John, these are two of my closest colleagues and friends. | ||
| Well, it's interesting what they both say. | ||
| My question is this. | ||
| These hybrid fetuses, children, there seems to be two scenarios to what they're doing with them. | ||
| And I was wondering, Which one do you believe? | ||
| What are they doing with these children? | ||
| Well, I mean, I'm not sure that we have a scenario as to what they're doing with them. | ||
| We really don't know what they're doing with them. | ||
| That's the central question, actually, as David Jacobs has said about our point of knowledge right now. | ||
| What are the hybrids for? | ||
| Where are they going? | ||
| We don't really know. | ||
| And now, I haven't read all of the John Mac's book, Fully, just came out, and I don't know that he makes any, presents any scenario for the use of the future of the hybrid, nor does Dave Jacobs. | ||
| Well, what were you thinking, sir? | ||
| Well, he's gone. | ||
| These are both people that I have interviewed and will interview again. | ||
| Right. | ||
| Alright, very good. | ||
| We've got to move on. | ||
| One more, perhaps, on the wildcard line. | ||
| You're on the air with Bud Hopkins. | ||
| Good evening. | ||
| Hello? | ||
| Hello there. | ||
| Where are you, sir? | ||
| Hello? | ||
| Are you there, caller? | ||
| No, I guess not. | ||
| Well, in that case, we'll make it this one. | ||
| First time caller in line, you're on the air with Bud Hopkins. | ||
| Hello. | ||
|
unidentified
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Hi, I'm calling from Albuquerque. | |
| Albuquerque, yes. | ||
|
unidentified
|
I'd like to ask him if he thinks UFOs have anything to do with the Lost Squadron, like when those five cranes disappeared. | |
| Oh, yes, the Lost Squadron. | ||
| Bud, you remember they thought they found it, and then I guess they didn't. | ||
| What is the story? | ||
| Yeah, this is one of the Bermuda Triangle issues. | ||
| That story has been pretty much analyzed and discussed and explained away as a series of genuine navigational mistakes. | ||
| People caught in a storm, and there doesn't seem to be a big mystery attached to it. | ||
| Now, other things have disappeared. | ||
| There was a pilot who disappeared, Fred Valentich, off the coast of Australia in 1977, and he was last heard talking on the radio. | ||
| I've heard the radio tape of the broadcast to Melbourne Tower. | ||
| That's a genuine case. | ||
| The lost squadron, quote-unquote, which did happen, seems to have a natural explanation, though, unfortunately. | ||
| All right, well, I guess they say we've been wanting more, and you are. | ||
| It's a full board we've got here. | ||
| Bud, go ahead and give your address out one more time, would you please? | ||
| Okay, you can write to me. | ||
| care of if I f that's box 302 3 3 New York New York 10011 and I can be reached | ||
| If you want information, a sample of the bulletin, information about subscriptions, or especially if you have something to report about personal experiences, we would like to hear from you. | ||
| And thank you very much. | ||
| Well, Bud, it has been a pleasure having you on, and I hope we can tap your expertise at some future date. | ||
| Would you possibly be able to come back? | ||
| Oh, I think I would. | ||
| It's kind of late here in New York for me, one o'clock in the morning. | ||
| Us city boys have to get up early. | ||
| All right, Bud. | ||
| At any rate, I certainly enjoy the program very much, Art, and I especially appreciate our listeners who have been so open about talking about their own personal experiences. | ||
| That's amazing, isn't it? | ||
| Thank you, Bud. | ||
| Thank you. | ||
| Take care. | ||
| That's Bud Hopkins. | ||
| He's been our guest for the last three hours. | ||
| I want to thank you all for being here. | ||
| As I said, there is never enough time. | ||
| If you would like or even need, and I can understand that after hearing it, a copy of this program or any of the other programs in the Dreamlands series, please call the following telephone number 24 hours a day to get it. | ||
| It is area code 503-664-7966. | ||
| Let me repeat that. | ||
| It's an important number if you want a copy of this program or any other Dreamland program. | ||
| Area code 503-664-7966. | ||
| Next Sunday we'll be back with another Dreamland On behalf of everybody at the network, I'm Art Bell. |
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