Budd Hopkins, UFO investigator and author of Intruders, reveals his 1975 Manhattan case—where beings resembling Sumerian depictions (cat-eyed, pleated headdresses) emerged from a craft—now backed by DoD-linked accounts like Robert Emenegger’s 1971 Holloman Air Force Base incident. Hopkins dismisses government complicity theories, arguing non-human intelligences independently study human emotions and genetics, often starting in childhood with lasting trauma. Skeptics’ backlash stifles credible witnesses, despite growing media attention (e.g., 48 Hours, The New York Times). Listeners share symptoms like fast-healing injuries, missing time, and unexplained implants, while Hopkins notes shared abduction memories among victims suggest long-term observation. The episode underscores a phenomenon too widespread to ignore, yet shrouded in fear and misinformation. [Automatically generated summary]
Welcome to Dreamland, a program dedicated to an examination of areas in the human experience not easily nor neatly put in a box.
Things seen at the edge of vision, awakening a part of the mind as yet not mapped, and yet things every bit as real as the air we breathe but don't see.
This is Dreamland.
Good evening, everybody.
Welcome to yet another Dreamland.
A very, very enjoyable series for me to do, as most of you know.
Barely made it, but I guess, but we did.
And we connected with Linda Howe, who is, believe it or not, at Philadelphia Airport, where I guess she just zoomed in.
And that was a nail biter.
And our guest, of course, is going to be Bud Hopkins.
Been looking forward to this one.
UFO investigator, extraordinaire, author of Intruders and Missing Time.
So it should be, to say the least, quite an evening.
I'm Art Bell.
This is sort of an unusual program.
And if it is your first listen, I suggest you sit back in an armchair and prepare yourself.
Because this is some pretty fascinating stuff.
Now, all the way to Philadelphia, literally, I guess, at the airport.
I was in Eureka Springs this weekend at the Eureka Springs conference that discusses their large complex UFO phenomenon.
And one of the guests who spoke for the first time in 28 years about his experiences as a television producer and writer in 1972 to 74 with the Department of Defense working on a documentary called UFOs Past, Present, and Future was Robert Emenager.
In my new book, Glimpses of Other Realities, I show a drawing that he used in the first edition of the book when it was published in 1974 and was never published again after that.
And he explained to me some time back, and I'm going to play an excerpt actually with more details here in a minute, that this drawing was made in the presence of Department of Defense officials who had the photographs in 16 millimeter film taken from two cameras at Holloman Air Force Base in May of 1971 when there was what appeared to be a prearranged landing at Holloman
Air Force Base in the White Sands Missile Range area.
And what I'm going to play for you right now is an excerpt of his telling, really, for the first time, the blow by blow as he understands what happened.
But it seemed like there was some understanding ahead of time.
I'm not sure about because they said they dispatched a couple afternoon for those because I said not to dismantle the feeder flying out of it.
The guide is out of the security area.
They did have an array at the base, and another step that the I told you, the commander of the base, Galaxy, several other people, were there as the craft landed and were waiting and at the opening of the door and out came, I guess, one, two, or three human tight-fitting suits who just did not look quite human.
They had those cat-eyed looks, a fun face, they had a almost like a Samarian-looking hat, as it matters, that lip design, an even Samarian-looking face design.
They were met and taken to there's an area there where the buildings no longer exist today.
Because when I went there, I asked where these buildings, they said those two barrack buildings were torn down.
There's no significance to that, it's not at all extra extension.
They and with the crash, the one that did land, was taken down to the end of Niles Avenue and put in a very small hangar.
This is what I was told.
They were met by an archander Lorenzo, at least that's the name that's on one of the documents I have.
I was just going to say he was an x-ray technician or something, radio.
He was in that field.
I never heard that he was really on TVY for more technology.
And he may not have been a test virgin at all, but that's what I was told.
He was an attentive to whatever they're doing, took care of their whatever their needs were.
But he's an impression of that.
Well, he he was somewhat freaked out, and he's the one who contacted his friend at night to be on the alert and look for at the time that it'd be coming.
He said, I know there's got to be some.
And he kept corresponding with any kind of a personal feminine reaction to.
Yes, he did.
His comment was that they, to him, there appeared like scientists.
You know, like educated scientists.
Now, I don't know what kind of communication was done, but it seemed like there was no problem with communicating.
unidentified
In the headline in your book, there was that staff.
This is the very first time that Bob Emenager has described the beings in any detail and using the terms Sumerian.
He said this was the context within which they were described, the same kind of pleated headdress that rose over a bulging head.
He said the eyes did have vertical pupils.
He referred to them as cat eyes.
They were holding a rod in the left hand, which is in the drawing, that had a coil roping around it that he said our people understood to be both a communicator and something that they could use as a paralyzer if they were threatened in some way.
This was May 1971 in a portion of Holloman Air Force Base.
Three discs, this is the part apparently you could not hear easily, came down at this particular air base.
They were met by a party of us.
There were three beings.
One of those is the Alfonso Lorenzo name that he was referencing, who was in some scientific capacity there, who was saying that his impression of these beings was that they were scientists.
And he was describing that in this meeting of these beings that for all intents and purposes seemed to be like the so-called old ancient Sumerian gods, at least in what we have in replicas of stone statues,
they and their craft was transported for reasons that he said had something to do with a repair, but he was not sure if that was a cover story and there was some other reason, but that this was put on some kind of a truck covered with a tent and transported to a building at the end of a street that was called Mars Avenue.
This happened in May of 1971, according to Eminager.
They were filming at Holloman and filming the documentary in which they described this event then as a hypothetical sequence because that's what the Department of Defense told them to do.
And that film was first broadcast in the United States in 1974, about three years after the event.
For those who have seen that documentary at conferences or maybe on television in late night, it was one of the last projects that Rod Serling did as a narrator.
And in it, it is this sequence of Holloman that he is now describing in detail for the first time.
Well, he does not, apparently, because he said he had checked with some of his still contacts in Washington about speaking at the conference and making these descriptions, and no one said that he could not.
So this is, in a way, it is a step forward beyond the documentary 20 years ago.
It's gone from hypothetical to the description of a reality.
I thought she had perhaps spaced out on the time change that, of course, we all went through, the one-hour time change.
Well, on a summer afternoon in 1964, Bud Hopkins and two others watched a small, round, metallic craft maneuver in the sky over Cape Cod.
This daylight sighting marked the beginning of his interest in UFO phenomena.
But his first nationally known investigation did not take place until 1975.
Well, I understand that.
You need a while to think about an experience.
Then a UFO apparently landed less than a mile from Manhattan, was observed from various vantage points by a number of witnesses.
Bud Opkins' carefully researched account of this incident appeared in the Village Voice, Cosmopolitan Magazine, and elsewhere, and was covered extensively by television and radio.
Bud is an accomplished author, probably the nation's premier UFO investigator, and he has appeared just about on everybody's important television show.
And I'm sure that you know him, so he doesn't really need a great introduction beyond all of that.
And of course, I didn't think of myself at any point of someone who was going to do investigations.
I was making my art and exhibiting, and that was my life.
And it wasn't until this friend of mine reported an object landing near his car and little guys getting out, little figures and so forth, in a quite dramatic way, that I just simply thought, I've got to look into this.
And so I think I was sort of pulled into this business by circumstance rather than by choice.
But I think you're right about sitting back and thinking it over.
You see, no one can overestimate, really, the resistance all of us have to what this really implies.
This is the biggest change, the biggest event in all of human history that's going on.
And the evidence is there, and it is so absolutely shocking that people who have the experiences are sometimes even more hesitant to accept their reality than the people who are just reading about them on the outside because it is so shocking.
As you got downline from your experience a year or so, Bud, did you find that you began to question the experience yourself in your own mind, or did you find it became more clear to you?
I would say, depending upon the day you might have asked the question, one or the other might have been the answer.
There is a strange way in which if everything's going well and the world seems orderly and the edges are nice and clean, you just convince yourself it just must have been something.
You don't know what it was.
It must have been something.
So you convince yourself as best you can that it's just something that's going to go away because it has to have an explanation.
On the days when the imagery comes back in your mind vividly and, God forbid, you've read about somebody else having a similar thing, it comes back to haunt you.
This really happened.
And so I do think that the ambivalence is bound to be there.
You know, one of the things, Art, that bothers me a great deal is TV programs or whatnot, when they're dealing with people who've had abduction experiences, they will say so-and-so claims to have been abducted.
No one ever, no one, but very few people, will step up and say, I had an abduction experience.
I claim this.
What people really say is, this happened to me.
It is so confusing.
It is so upsetting.
It's totally real as far as I'm concerned, but it just can't be.
I'm having trouble even believing it.
So therefore, it's a long way away from a sort of a cold-blooded, clear-eyed claim for anybody.
Well, maybe it's easier for the storyteller, no matter how real it is to the individual, but maybe it's easier for the storyteller to, in essence, give themselves an out if the other guy hearing the story says, boy, what a watch of bunch baloney.
I've just finished writing an article which I'll be publishing fairly soon.
I'll send it to the Bupon Journal.
And the title is Losing a Battle But Winning the War, something to that effect.
The basic point is that we're winning the war about bringing this material and this phenomenon, the abduction phenomenon, to more and more serious mainstream attention.
Matter of fact, just last week I had Susan Spencer here from 48 Hours doing some work.
They're going to be coming back next week on a 48 Hours special.
But I mean, the New York Times, Time Magazine, I've been interviewed recently by a lot of very fine mainstream people.
We are winning the war for simply the idea that this has got to be taken seriously.
Whatever idea about it you want to have, whether you think it's some completely strange, new, modern psychological aberration or whatever, or whether you feel that these events are real, still more and more people are coming to the conclusion.
You can't just sit on the sidelines without looking into it.
But the battle we're losing is the fact that a particularly virulent group of what I call true believers are people who believe that this cannot possibly be true.
In other words, they have a very narrow belief system.
These people like to think of themselves as debunkers or skeptics or whatever.
But there's a very narrow group of them who have set about almost single-handedly to make a climate exist, to bring about a climate of opinion that makes it almost impossible for serious people with a lot at risk to come forward and talk about their experiences.
That battle we're really losing.
I've worked now with maybe 450 people, something like that, one-on-one, who have had abduction experiences.
And one of them was a NASA scientist.
I was just approached the other day by seventh rather psychiatrist who's had his own experiences, police officers, military, and so forth.
Actually, a person I'm going to be working with shortly, her father was up for an Academy Award recently, a major category.
These are people from all walks of life who now, I mean, of course, if they did come forward, it'd be extremely important for the credibility of the whole issue.
It's hard to say, but I would say to any NASA scientist in a situation like that, don't go public.
Because the climate that's been established of ridicule by these zirulant reputation trashers, really, is such that they are trying to create a climate in which nobody can come forward and talk about this objectively in terms of personal experience without enormous risk.
And to show you the level of the risk, I've received two letters, two different people, women, who had explored their experiences and now were in the divorce court and their husbands were trying to get custody of the children on the grounds that the wives were crazy because they believed they'd had these experiences.
You can imagine, if you were a neurosurgeon, if you were a police lieutenant, would you ever come forward and talk about that under the present climate of ridicule?
Now, I'm involved in an extremely important case here in New York involving witnesses to an abduction, an abduction that was evidently put on for people to see.
I mean, a very important political figure was involved as a witness, and it was a kind of a show for this person, I believe, the inferences you make from the evidence.
And there are numerous witnesses, including a new witness that I have just recently uncovered.
But the point is, I have given the advice to these people not to come forward because the skeptics are ready to savage anybody who reports this kind of experience.
Well, we're talking about, it's hard to say how, let's find an analogy.
Let's say the importance of the level of, let's say, a former Secretary of Defense of the United States, a former Prime Minister of Great Britain, something of that level.
And he really ought not need anybody's introduction, and he really doesn't.
He is the nation's premier UFO investigator, author of Intruders and Missing Time, and talks about all that sort of thing.
And he's telling us now about a fascinating case, actually, involving somebody up high who's had an experience, an apparent abduction, and has been interviewed recently by 48 Hours.
And Bud, I want to ask you about 48 Hours.
Have you noticed any sort of sea change, Bud, in the way 48 Hours and other programs are coming at you?
In other words, are they more serious about the subject?
And I believe that this really began, the change began back in 87 because it was the simultaneous appearance of my book, Intruders Through Random House, Whitney Streeper's book, Communion Through Morrow, and Light Years by Gary Kinder.
I've forgotten the publisher, but it was a major publisher.
Three books came out at the same time, taking the subject very seriously, and they were published by major publishing houses.
And at that point, there was just no way that the press could totally ignore this.
And things began to Change at that time.
I was favorably reviewed in the New York Times and the Washington Post and places like that.
2020 did a piece and so forth.
Plus, you know, lots of other things.
But the point is that the public is extremely interested in this because I think there is a subtle awareness in this country that this has never gone away, that the subject just the evidence is there and that there's an effort on the part of the government and other people to keep this quiet, and people just want more and more to hear about it.
All right, I'd like to understand, Bud, what you can tell us about your own success.
In other words, you are regarded, so well regarded throughout the mainstream media, and why is that compared to others who are ridiculed, frankly, and laughed at at times?
Well, I don't think maybe you should ask the press to answer that question instead of me.
I can just tell you what I try to do, and that is I try to never make any assertions beyond those that I feel the evidence can really support in a very clear-cut way.
I tend to sit on aspects of the phenomenon which are more outre, more peculiar, which I cannot really support so well by clear-cut evidence.
A lot of people want to go with the most dramatic story they can find, which of course then makes it sound as if, even though it may be very sincere and actually have some evidence for it, but it makes them sound a little bit more like the supermarket dreadfuls, those little papers, than serious individuals.
And I think that I can say I haven't really had to retract anything that I've written over the years simply because I've been very careful.
And I think that carefulness comes out in people's response, and they feel that, well, here's somebody who doesn't sound wild and crazy and does marshal his evidence, and perhaps he should be attended to or listened to.
I think that's perhaps, I hope, that's the reason why I have received more attention on some of these subjects from mainstream people.
You know, years ago, Moore Saul said that he defined a liberal as a masochist who will buy and read everything a bigot publishes.
And I've always thought of Philip Klass as essentially a bigot.
There's no sense in his having an open mind on any of these issues.
And just to show you what's the typical situation, why I can say these very harsh things, and I don't say harsh things about many people, but as an example, he wrote a book attacking me at great length and attacking a number of abductees, Charles Hickson, Betty Hill, Kathy Davis, you know, many, many different people.
Sure.
Attacking the entire phenomenon and had never interviewed or spoken to a single solitary person that he wrote the book about.
If he's working for the government, the government's not getting its money's worth, let's put it that way.
I don't know what his problem is.
I think he adores the publicity.
But at any rate, I'd just like to make one point very clear.
This is an example of the way he operates.
He started attacking abductees, and he doesn't do this in any kind of attempt at a gentle way of saying, well, maybe these people are misguided or something.
he implies everyone is a liar and a crook uh...
and uh...
this is his basic it really They're just little nobodies.
This is the only way they can get on the Oprah Winfrey Show.
Which I think is, of course, a wonderful piece of self-description on his part.
But at any rate, I mean, that's not the voice of a scientist.
That's the voice of a mad fanatic.
And let's always remember that Santiana defined a fanatic as someone who, when he loses sight of his goal, redoubles his efforts.
But this is the point I'd like to make.
He started attacking abductees a long time ago, saying if they really had these experiences, they would report them to the FBI.
Which is kind of funny if you're Charles Hickson and you're in Toscagoula, Mississippi in the middle of the night.
How do you find the FBI?
You go to the local police.
But at any rate, he said the reason they don't report at the FBI is because there's a federal law against falsely reporting a kidnapping, which would imply that they're aware of that law and therefore they're, since they've made up the whole story, they're afraid to report it.
Well, of course, it's reported that the police is a state law always against falsely reporting a kidnapping, too.
It's the same thing.
It doesn't make any difference.
You don't have to bring in the FBI.
But years ago, under the Freedom of Information Act, we got an internal FBI memo describing an abduction reported to it in 1967.
And copies of that were sent to class, of course.
Meanwhile, when I did the Oprah Limpses show with him one time, the only time I, and I will never do it again, the only time I ever appeared with him, I handed him a copy of my letter to the FBI reporting all of the cases that I had been working on and demanding an investigation.
Well, he was, of course, his immediate thing was to counterattack and say, well, you should have done it earlier, you know.
And of course, it was an exercise of futility because the letter I got back from the FBI was exactly what I expected.
You know, dear Mr. Hopkins, the FBI does not look into such cases.
Please report it to MUFON, etc.
At any rate, the basic point is that as recently as two weeks ago or three weeks ago, something like that, someone was interviewing him and he went into his FBI routine again and said, maybe because of the law against him, maybe that's why to this day no one has ever reported a UFO abduction to the FBI.
Now that is an outright lie, which he knows to be a lie.
I don't know what's eating a man.
He certainly seems to be an unhappy human being.
But I wish you well with your experience.
I think I've talked as much as I want to about this man.
So when people get into arguments about, oh, I think they're interdimensionals, and somebody says they're time travelers, or they're extraterrestrial, whatever, I just sort of slink away from the argument.
We know that they're not human.
What do we know about them?
We know that they obviously exhibit intelligence.
They have a humanoid appearance.
They have obviously a technology which is thousands of years ahead of ours.
They seem deeply interested in us.
They are deeply foreign to us in their sense of not really understanding human emotions.
We know many, many, many things about how they behave.
But as to what the bottom line is, what their goal is ultimately, what they're going to be doing a year from now, 20 years, 100 years from now, we have no way of knowing.
Well, the truth of the matter is you're probably not going to have any choice one way or the other in this.
They seem to be able to control the situation as they need to.
Now, the basic point about this, which is extremely, I think, central to understand, is that all of our science fiction films and the simple stories and so forth have always dealt with visitors from outside, extraterrestrials or whatever, as one of two types.
Either they're going to come as conquerors, body snatchers, etc., or they're going to come as saviors to clean up the environment and close up the hole in the ozone layer, etc.
They're either going to be, in other words, gods or devils.
And neither one of those descriptions fits what we're getting.
What we're getting is we might call a third world, a third force.
They seem to have their own agenda.
Their own agenda does not involve any kind of causing of deliberate pain or deliberate hardship or taking over the world or anything of that sort at this point because they've been here for a long time and I have abduction cases that go back to 1929.
They could have done an awful lot of mischief had they wanted to in the meantime.
And of course, in all of that time, there was absolutely no sign of done anything to help us out either.
Nothing stopped, for instance, the Holocaust.
Nothing stopped our dropping bombs on Hiroshima.
Nobody stopped the Korean War, the Vietnam War, or the carnage and the genocide that various factions have practiced since then.
Nobody stopped the spread of AIDS, the problems of cancer, the difficulties with our planet, the environment.
They seem to be bent on their own purposes, which are not malevolent or benevolent.
Well, they seem to be monitoring it, but they seem to be taking material from us and taking from us with as little disruption as possible, it would seem, as little deliberate disruption.
The involuntary disruptions, the side effects of what they're doing are truly horrendous.
I don't think they understand the terror and the confusion and the self-doubt and the family disorders and dysfunctions and so on that follow In the wake of what they've been doing over these years.
But I don't see that those are intended results.
So they are taking from us our genetic material, our DNA, our particular genetic makeup, because it seems, and this is the basic theme of my book, Intruders, and really this has been replicated and is accepted by virtually all abduction researchers that I know of.
They are picking people up in childhood and picking them up again at intervals throughout their lives as objects of study.
And they seem to be taking sperm and oval samples and genetic material in what is apparently an attempt to create a mixture of themselves and ourselves, a hybrid being.
And quite along with that, they seem extremely interested in understanding our emotions, our thoughts, our feelings about one another, our sense of relationship with one another, love we feel for one another, for our children, and so forth.
All of those wonderful human things they seem to lack, and they seem to be very anxious to acquire them.
I mean, there are a lot of people who talk about them as our creators and so forth.
The idea being that we must have some common genetic root for a hybrid program to work.
I really don't know how to answer that.
My feeling, though, actually, is that on Earth, females carry their babies for nine months.
The fetus is in their bodies.
And when they give birth, there's a tremendous sense of connection and bonding with their children.
If you imagine some kind of developed species, which no longer reproduces by that method, which no longer has females that go through the discomfort and warmth and everything else of carrying a child inside the body and giving it nurturance and so forth, if they have evolved past that and they somehow need that, they feel that perhaps they've reached some kind of evolutionary dead end, and there are reports that would suggest that, that we can't, you know, again, we're speculation.
I think they're envious of us, to tell you the truth.
I think that they're gaining spiritual and emotional nurturance from us at the same time that they're taking, forcibly, I should say, genetic material.
A lot of people speculate in order to do that, there was with our government or somebody a deal made, bud, a long time ago, some kind of a technology swap for genetic tampering permission or whatever.
I think it's even kind of ludicrous, just on the ground that if all we've gotten out of it is some stealth technology, as people allege, stealth planes managed to cost an inordinate amount of money and don't even work very well.
I don't know what we've gotten out of it.
I don't see anything that we've gotten out of it, any kind of quantum leap in technology.
I wouldn't, on the other hand, say that we haven't perhaps found wreckage if they have had accidents and acquired that wreckage and tried to reverse engineer that wreckage in some way to learn what makes their equipment go.
But the idea that, you know, I always used to think, under the previous administration, I always sort of made a joke about it that I always saw the idea of small gray men with clipboards standing in Dan Quayle's office with a list of children they wanted to abduct that week or aluminum siding salesman or whatever.
I mean, it's just totally foolish.
They can do whatever they want to do.
They don't have to ask any government permission from anybody.
I think that that kind of theory gets foisted upon us because a lot of people who look into this have a natural paranoid tendency.
And I don't mean that in the strict clinical meaning, but conspiracy theories are wonderful for a lot of people.
And of course you understand paranoia is a wonderful thing because it instantly organizes what's otherwise chaotic.
You know, if you and I have a flat tire in the afternoon and lose a poker in the evening, we think we had a couple of bad breaks, but the paranoid will tell you who did it to you and why.
That's right.
So the point is that if there's a lot of paranoia about the UFO phenomenon, there's, of course, tremendous paranoia and some of it obviously very deserved on the part of belief about the government.
So if you can put the two together and say the two are working hand in hand, we've got a kind of very satisfactory thing to do.
But there's a big difference between complicity and some kind of a deal where the government or some branch thereof is, quote-unquote, allowing the aliens to abduct thousands and thousands and thousands of our citizens daily.
So in other words, you think the government may understand that it is here and that they are here and even have evidence of that, but not really know what the story is themselves?
I think that their knowledge is far more extensive, I'm sure, whatever branch this is, than my knowledge or anyone else's.
But the point is, what can they do about it?
You know, I've used this example again and again.
If all a president can say is, ladies and gentlemen, they're here and they're flying around.
They can outfly anything we have, and they're taking our people on these one and two and three hour abduction events, medical experiments, spermanova sample being taken.
They race people's memories.
We have no idea what it's ultimately leading to, whether they're going to be friendly or not.
And if I may just make a comment, because we do live in the real world, too, with all the rest of this, I'm always, I'm sort of astonished at the heavy-duty right-wing bias of the news reports we're getting.
It's really quiet program.
It isn't so much news as a little sermonette about how bad anything liberal is.
I'm surprised.
But anyway, I don't want to short-circuit what we're talking about.
But we do live in the real world, and these other things are important to us, too.
Well, the twain meets in the sense that these experiences, and we're again dealing with the whole abduction phenomenon, these experiences have such powerful effects on people's lives that there is no way that your day-to-day existence is not affected very subtly by what's happened to you.
Now, just to give you a quick example, if these experiences have happened in childhood, and that's where they seem to always start, versus abducted as a little child, and you're five years old and you wake up and you can't move, you're totally paralyzed, and you feel there's some strange figure that's come out of the closet or whatever with its huge black eyes, and you feel yourself floating or whatever, and you don't remember all of the experience.
You come back with a cut on your leg that wasn't there, maybe you're upside down in your bed, or maybe your pajamas are no longer on, they're on the floor or something, and all those signs of physical problems.
And you start calling out for help for your parents, and your mother says, you just had a bad dream, get back in bed.
And you try to say it wasn't a dream, it was real.
What happens, of course, is a terrible kind of split develops between the child and his or her sense of trust of adults.
And if the adults begin to feel maybe something like this really is happening, they begin to feel a tremendous sense of impotence, of helplessness in protecting your own families.
And much of this can remain unspoken.
And it does not help anybody in your day-to-day existence, whether you're talking about your first-grade teacher or your friends at school.
You're afraid to let them know that these strange things are happening to you, which you think, am I crazy?
You brought up politics, so one question, then we'll go to the phones, and that is, this administration, they've revealed an awful lot about the nuclear testing and a bunch of other baloney that's going on.
What kind of hopes do you have that they're going to release information for what they know about UFOs?
I mean, we have been hearing day after, year after year after year, this is the year and they're going to come clean and so on and so forth.
I honestly don't see how they can do that without really terrifying the country.
They've put themselves in a completely terrible position by the government cover-up program because by denigrating the experiences of literally millions of people, they're really saying, you didn't have these experiences.
You either made them up, you're a liar, or you're mentally ill.
It didn't happen, some problem psychologically.
And this is, of course, very much like on the national scale what I was describing within a family, where the parents are telling the children, this didn't happen to you.
You just had a dream, and the child knows it wasn't a dream.
The people who've had these experiences know that the government is lying to them.
And of course, it means that they have no place to go for help, although we're trying to supply that as best we can with our limited resources.
Numbers of researchers and mental health professionals are turning around to do this.
Well, I had a recent experience, and I was just wondering how familiar this is.
Not too long ago, I had just gone to bed with my fiancé, and it was quite late, it was about midnight, and I felt as though something had entered my room, and I opened my eyes, or tried to open my eyes, and my vision started to just kind of blur, and then my hearing went out, and I was completely paralyzed.
And all I really do remember seeing is something kind of dark and not too huge, but kind of large.
And then I remember trying to yell or scream for my fiancé, and all I remember being able to do is kind of mumble and groan a little bit.
And then not too long after that, he was shaking me as if he was trying to wake me up.
And then after that had happened, I still couldn't move or hear or anything.
And then there was like this loud wind in my ears.
And then I was able to get up and scream and tell him to turn on the lights.
And that's basically all I remember, except for that the next morning I woke up and had a bruise across my shoulder that hadn't been there before.
Now, if you write to me, and we will put you in touch with a very skilled and helpful and very, very warm person, an investigator in the Portland area who has had these experiences herself.
And she has a support group and people who can be of help.
But your experience should very definitely be looked into.
Many people have these experiences without remembering a sighting or without having had a recent sighting.
According to the Roper survey, it would suggest that perhaps more people have had abduction experiences than have had UFO sightings.
So we used to think of the abduction as a kind of a bizarre, very minor aspect of the whole phenomenon, but now I think it's, of course, the central purpose, and UFOs are, as it were, the getaway car.
And as I pointed out, we spent originally, before we accepted the idea of abductions, we spent many years trying to get the license plate number on the getaway car without having figured out what the crime was.
So UFO sightings are not necessary, and are not necessary for someone to have had these experiences.
Now to a very serious, sensitive subject about the alien.
Way back in 1965, I learned about two alien federations on the cosmic doorsteps.
Now, the kind ones with a democratic, utopian, free will believe, and the not-so-kind ones with a socialistic, I'm your leader, you will follow me system.
What I want to say is that for hundreds of years, there has been a great conflict over who will connect to this solar system.
Now, my question to Bud is, have you heard new research running into this conflict about the two alien races out there who want to see this, they go with the Earth sooner or later?
I would say that what's been described here is essentially, with all due respect to Fritz, it sounds to me like the kind of projection that we get from people who want to put this in the duality of gods and devils, gods and demons and so forth, that I was talking about earlier before.
I haven't seen in the 18 years I've been doing this kind of research, I haven't seen any sign that we have different groups doing specifically different things.
Now, we have different physical types described from time to time, but they very often are seen in the same ship doing the same kind of work with human beings that I've been describing.
Do you think that they are in contact with each other, aware of each other, or could we, are we being simultaneously contacted or sporadically contacted by many different groups and different origins?
What I said, though, essentially is, as an example, in one California case, the woman reported small gray figures with huge heads and black eyes and a tall figure that was more insect-like with huge eyes.
People have made associations with the praying mantis look, etc.
And in that same ship was a relatively speaking normal human being.
But they were all cooperating in these genetic experiments as I've been describing.
So it would seem that we don't have different groups doing different things.
I suspect that although we have no idea where the place of origin of these figures are or whatnot, they still, there doesn't seem to be different groups doing different projects.
I'm not a scientist, but I would doubt very seriously if we have anything that remotely approaches the speed of light.
I think that there are undoubtedly aircraft under the planning stages, advanced aircraft of one sort or another.
And also, there is evidence that has come up actually in Nevada and so forth that would suggest that perhaps there's been some reverse engineering of crashed UFOs, which would suggest attempt to try to get something to work.
But the idea that we've got anything that can go near the speed of light, if somebody had that, NASA would be out of business and somebody would be making gazillions of dollars at it and so on.
There are lots of theories of that sort, and we really don't know what to make of it.
I mean, I don't.
As I say, leave that kind of speculation to other people.
I'd rather stay with the data and away from heavy speculation.
It's fun to do, but we know that this is going on in the lives of many, many millions of people, actually.
How they get here, how they travel, where they're coming from.
I mean, the idea, for instance, that they are necessarily locked into a planetary system somewhere is not necessarily true.
I mean, it's highly possible since we have had up in space a Skylab at one point, and space stations are going to be built by us within not too long a period, orbiting Skylabs.
And one could imagine that an environment could have been constructed, and it could be movable through space, and so they might not be tied down to a planet.
Can you give us some idea of what technologies you're talking about, please?
unidentified
Well, the different crafts that you see are simply the different time machines, modes of travel machines that are from all different points in the future.
They're simply scientists who are coming back with a policy of non-interference, studying the history of mankind.
That's why they're taking DNA samples to the future to find out what has gone wrong with mankind in the future.
The issues, the descriptions, of course, here of time traveling, I mean, it's one of the modes of explanation of the UFO phenomenon that we've had for a long, long time, along with ideas of interdimensionality and so forth.
So what you're saying is a theory, it's been around a long time.
The news would be, if you can say officially that this is some kind of government, I mean that Lars Livermore Laboratories is working on something.
unidentified
There is a point in the future where mankind learns to travel in time.
Well, there is, of course, an amazing amount of interference.
Lives are being interfered with daily.
Suicides have resulted in this.
In other words, the interference is extraordinary.
So it isn't a question of, well, let's say deliberate interference in the sense that governments are being changed or altered or something, but lives are being altered on a vast scale.
I don't feel it's possible to say there's been no interference.
Yeah, this answer you've gotten from Sitchin's books, is that right?
unidentified
Some of them, yes.
And some of the ancient writings of the Sumerians.
I find this absolutely fascinating, And I find it also plausible.
Do you?
Since they took the fertilized egg of a human being here on Earth and reimplanted it in the egg of the female astronaut, it seems to me so modern in its concept, then they wouldn't have any idea that this were possible.
Well, when I first heard him, I thought it was a speakerphone, and it may have been, and it also sounded like a portable because I heard it kind of whooshing around a little bit.
People don't tend to call and say, I'm calling from Lawrence Livermore Laboratories, to tell you the truth.
It's true.
And if someone is from a very highly secure area making a phone call and having his voice go out and so forth with apparently sensitive material, it's not the sort of thing that you announce on them.
My general sense is that no, it did not happen in the way it was originally reported.
Now, of course, Mr. Moore, who wrote the book about the Philadelphia Experiment with Berlins, I believe, together, has since felt that the evidence is not really compelling that such an event took place.
That was a long time ago, and obviously every single one of these issues, such as that amazing event, the disappearance and reconstitution of a ship and so forth, if something like that were feasible, I think we would have used this in one way or another, militarily or commercially, whatnot.
One of the problems, of course, with all of these ideas, which verge on conspiracy theory about super-duper government military gear or material that could have military usage,
is that people forget we went through a war and the Gulf War recently, and of course we had no real special equipment in that war that gave us the ending we would have liked to have had if we had had some really incredible equipment.
I think right now, as I've always said, Saddam Hussein would be sitting in a jail cell right now next to Noriega, and we would still have Bush as president.
We would still have the head of the CIA as the head of CIA.
The Joint Chiefs of Staff would still be in place, and so on.
What about the other major event in fairly distant history, the one in New Mexico that Representative Schiff is now going to cause the GAO to apparently investigate?
Well, that's a very different issue because that has to do with alien technology, not military technology, such as the Philadelphia experiment would indicate.
This is an alien event.
I have absolute now, after many years of studying the evidence and noticing more evidence as it's accumulated, some very good research.
Don Schmidt's been doing wonderful research on that.
So is Stan Friedman and a number of people.
I think that I definitely feel that something crashed, a UFO crashed or two, perhaps.
There was a speculation that two collided.
Bodies were recovered, material was recovered, and I have no doubt about that at this point.
Well, again, as I tried to explain, we have a basic need to kind of shove the whole alien phenomenon, vection phenomenon, UFO phenomenon, into the idea of gods or devils.
And I do not connect this with any kind of theological beings, demons, just as I don't connect it with theological beings, angels.
I think that this is a very distinct phenomenon.
Now, I'm not going to say that I don't believe that there are necessarily gods and devils in the real world.
I don't want to get into a theological hassle here.
We'll get a million calls from people consigning me to hell, from my opinion, so I will stay away from that.
But I definitely feel that this is its own business.
It is not connected with demons.
There are very, very possible mistaking identity situations where people feel the child is possessed of a devil or whatnot, who is having abduction experiences, and it might be kind of hard for some people to tell.
I had a case where a woman here in New York, her parents were rather not very well educated, first-generation Italian family, and they used to bring in the priest every now and then with holy water to bless the apartment because these strange little men with big black eyes were coming through the walls.
It creates a lot of problems for religious people, but it is not necessarily an insoluble problem.
We have to remember, and I should mention that I have worked with a number of born-again Christians who are also abductees, and there was a problem for them of reconciling what was happening to them to their abduction experiences.
And as I pointed out, you know, many years ago, it was believed back in the time of Galileo that if the idea was accepted that we were not the center of the universe, that we were simply in a planet going around the sun amongst many other suns, then that would mean the end of religion.
Because it was against the Bible, it was this, that, and the other thing.
And that was what the theologians of the time believed.
And of course, now virtually everybody understands that we are just a planet going in a particular solar system.
But that has not damaged religion.
Religion managed, theologians managed to make sense of this and harmonize this new information with the Bible.
Well, many, many people who have had abduction experiences at one point or another have noticed unusual lights or balls of light in the room with them coming through the wall, coming down the hall, whatnot.
Often people describe these lights as acting as if they're intelligent, as if they're looking at you.
I'm curious about, since you raised the question, that you must have had an experience along these lines.
unidentified
Yes, sir.
Much like the one a young lady related about 15 minutes ago where she was paralyzed.
Well, I woke up, I called before and talked to Linda Howe about this and also Mr. Bell.
But I woke up to a droning, whirring noise in the room, this whirring, you know, mechanical droning.
And that woke me up.
And I looked up and he had a gigantic crucifix on the wall and the ball of light came out the crucifix and it just pulsated there about the size of a baseball.
And then it trapped the ceiling, went over the ceiling, went down her side of the room, and I tried to wake her up.
And my girlfriend's really light sleeper.
I said, wake up.
Please wake up.
Look at this.
And she wouldn't wake up.
And when it got on her back, it pulsated for 30 minutes on her back.
And she was sleeping on her stomach.
It then proceeded off her back onto my chest.
Now, once it got on my chest, I couldn't scream out no more.
I couldn't move.
I started sweating, because I was fighting it.
I was trying to sit up.
But I could not move.
All my eyeballs could do was go round and round.
Next day, I passed out and went to sleep.
I woke up about an hour and a half later, and the ball of light was leaving my chest, going off my body to the floor, back on the crucifix, where it just pulsated for about a minute.
And it just went into the crucifix and out the wall.
And it took me about half an hour to recover before I could get up.
But I was going to ask you, have you ever had anybody do a study?
I'm going to say, my last name is Simon.
And have you ever had anybody do a study to see how many people with religious last name are being tracked?
I honestly, Mr. Simon, I don't think there's any reason to think that any particular Person is being singled out for this because of their religious beliefs, their last name, or anything of that sort.
I mean, this is a worldwide phenomenon.
We're getting this in areas where there are no Christians to speak of, for instance.
These things are occurring in China, in the Orient, in the backwaters of Africa, South America, and so forth, with people with very, very definitely non-Christian beliefs.
This is not something that is limited to people with a particular religious background.
I think that's a coincidence in your case, sir.
But what you described, though, certainly seems like something that should be looked into.
So again, if you'd like to write, I can put you in touch with somebody perhaps near you.
Well, let me tell you that when we did the Roper survey, one of the questions we asked was, have you ever, and these were not beliefs, these were, have you had these experiences?
One of the questions they asked was, have you ever seen unusual lights or balls of light in a room with you, which neither you nor anyone else could explain?
And actually, 8% of the American people said yes to that, which is extraordinary.
So even if you say that's four times too many, say, but you cut it down to mistakes or, you know, people misread things, you're still dealing with a very high percentage.
And even if it's, as we found with the Roper survey, using five basic indicator questions, one of which dealt with the paralysis, just as both of these people have explained, have described it very eloquently, periods of missing time where they have no idea where they were, how it happened, or why it happened, and so on.
With these five questions, we came out with 2% of the American people said yes to four out of five of these questions, which would indicate if they are abductees, and it's certainly likely, we're dealing with, say, perhaps 5 million Americans who have been through this.
It's very, very hard to tell because obviously what you hear about is only what the press or letter writers or whatever are willing to present.
And of course, if it's a very conservative community where this is frowned upon, you're not going to get people talking about it as openly.
For instance, in New York City, I have people reporting these experiences who are, let's say, white middle-class people, et cetera.
I have quite a few African-American background people and Hispanics, but very few Orientals.
And it isn't that I think this isn't happening to Oriental people, but I think that in such numbers, I think that there's a reticence, perhaps, as a societal norm in that particular group to talk about this sort of thing.
So if you go to, for instance, the Bible Belt town in the South, there might be a lot going on, but it might be attributed to demons, or it might be something that people feel hesitant to talk about.
And so you simply would think, well, we have a big blank in this area.
Well, that's, see, that's a very interesting point, and I'm glad you brought that up, because this has been the, let's say, the explanation du jour of many groups of skeptics on the subject, that the essential point is people they believe are being sexually abused and are somehow blanking out that memory and substituting for it a fantasy where they bring in aliens,
which is an issue they can handle better than the fact that it was old Uncle Sid or Aunt Martha or whatever, whoever who did the abusing.
And of course, if that were the case, we would expect to find amongst abductees a very low level of people reporting sexual abuse.
And in fact, from the work that was done by Dr. Kenneth Ring and other people with abductees, we get just as high a percentage of abductees reporting sexual abuse by normal humans in the bad old way as we get with people who have not had abductions.
So there's no sense that then these people are, as a group, are substituting abduction experiences since they're remembering the child abuse too.
What's more, and I'll give you a very quick and very sad story, I have a number of cases like this.
In this case, told me by the mother, her little boy, and this is rather graphic and I'm sorry about this, but her little boy at the age of, I think he was five or four, she was divorced.
He was having, the husband had visiting rights and the little boy would stay with him on the weekends.
And the mother said, it was a registered nurse, she found her little boy in his bedroom with a screwdriver, which he was trying to insert in his rectum.
And he told her, when she was, of course, horrified, he said, that's what the man does.
He uses a tool or something like this.
Well, at any rate, she naturally assumed sexual abuse on the part of her husband, who vehemently denied it.
But she went to court and got a court order barring her husband permanently any visiting rights whatsoever with the child.
And the husband moved away, and of course, within a couple of months, the child was again talking, and he had some damage to the tissues, rectal tissues.
He said the men had come in again, and they had big black eyes, and he was frightened, and they had used some instrument there.
Plus, a whole other range of things he was describing.
Well, I can assure you that it must have happened because I have many cases where, a number of cases, one in which a woman had thought that she had been raped by her father at the age of 12 and that she had harbored these feelings all her life, never accused him.
He never really changed his behavior.
But the description of the rape scene, which I can't even go into, it's very, very odd.
There's nothing about it that sounds like a rape, but her father was present.
And as we explored the experience, it seems that there was an abduction of the two of them.
And at one point, he was in the ship without clothes, as she was in the ship without clothes, and things are being done to the two of them.
So it was interpreted as a rape.
But I can assure you that just even the questioning of what she remembered consciously had nothing about it that suggested violence.
She remembered that she was lying down, that she was unable to move, that she had no clothes on whatsoever.
There was no sense of any violence or struggle.
She felt that something was inserted into her body.
There was no sense of another figure, of another body in relation to hers, etc.
That her father was standing off to one side, unmoving.
that it wouldn't hold any water and I really do feel I would not ever say that there aren't any cases where what the gentleman suggested might not have happened, where somebody could have invented some sort of story.
Lord knows the mind is very fertile when it comes to trying to cover up trauma and rationality.
will be back with more about five A lot of the abduction accounts talk about implants and like in the nose, nasal area.
My question is, why don't we see these devices?
And it would seem to me that if someone felt they had an implant in their nasal area, that they'd go and get some type of scan, like an MRI or a PET scan.
I'm getting much more interested in as time goes on.
There have been, I know it now personally of two cases where an x-ray indicated the presence of a strange object.
And before the x-ray, before anybody could do anything about the situation, in one case the x-ray was not in the possession of the person with the implant until a week after it was taken.
That person was reabducted, found herself bleeding from the nostril when she woke up in the morning.
And evidently our little friends in the sky had come back and removed it.
As if when the x-ray was taken, some alarm bell goes off, so to speak, and they come and take it.
The second case happened to be a woman whose child, it was actually the child involved, was about a five-year-old girl who had been having abduction experiences, and she had an accident completely unconnected with UFO.
She fell off her bicycle or some such Thing.
And they thought she had fractured her skull, and she was taken to the hospital.
Whereupon the doctors, this again in Italy, discovered a strange object.
By the time she was taken back to the army base where her father was stationed in Germany, and she was re-x-rayed, again, the object was no longer there.
Now, I have those x-rays in my possession, and they, beyond any doubt, show foreign objects of metallic origin.
These have been looked at by Dr. Paul Cooper, who's a neurosurgeon, who is a friend of mine who looks at such things for me.
I have recently received a case of, again, a woman in an abductee who, in another accident, thought she'd fractured a skull.
And the radiological report describes a metallic object in the parasagittal area of the brain.
I know through the investigator Barbara Bartilek, who's done some very fine work on this.
I have other images of, actually it's a videotape of the X-ray and MRI showing a foreign object in the medulla and another one which shows an odd object with a very clear-cut symmetrical shape in the hip bone.
And the man had been abducted, had terrible pain in his hip and even a scar right opposite where this object seemed to be.
I don't know what Barbara Barkalik is doing with those cases, but the point is the ones that are in the head are in places where it would be extremely dangerous to try to retrieve them.
There have been some objects that have been recovered from the nostril and two from the underside of different men's penises, of all things.
These objects are not radio-opaque, do not have any kind of heavy metallic makeup.
They're a lot of more organic elements, carbon, silicon, and so forth.
I believe, I don't know on what program, but I saw somebody actually holding one, Bud, which appeared to be triangular in shape and kind of crystalline.
The objects that have been recovered so far, unlike these metallic objects we have not recovered, are made of enough familiar elements, especially, as I said, silicon, carbon, and so forth, that no scientist is going to say there's no way that this object couldn't have originated on Earth.
It might be a bit of a problem to imagine how an object lodges on the underside of the, under the skin of the underside of a man's penis.
But nevertheless, it's possible to imagine an alien implant which is made of fairly neutral materials, but which is charged in such a way that it does what they need it to do.
We really have no way of knowing what these objects do, why they're there.
And I always use the example to show how complicated it would be to guess alien motivations.
In the case of the ones you talked about, where they have it in a portion of the brain, is anybody talking to these people about signing a release for when they die?
The idea of autopsies, that's something we have to go into.
Now, it's very possible that these objects somehow can be removed by the aliens without leaving scars or marks.
Obviously, their technology, if they can move a person through a closed surface, presumably they can move a metallic implant through the skull without leaving a hole.
How that happens, we have no way of knowing.
It sounds totally off the wall, and yet the evidence would suggest that's the case.
At the same time, that sometimes when these things are put in the nostril or the ear, there is bleeding.
But I use the example that if you imagined a very primitive Stone Age tribe in the jungles of New Guinea or something like that coming across the body of a dead anthropologist and finding a pacemaker in that man's body, they would not have the slightest idea as to the function of that object.
Is there any list is I mean, a lot of the things you said are very important.
Now, the issue of unsubstantiated intelligence, we have to also know I've got a case of a man who was abducted who was rather severely retarded.
I also have cases, one of the most bizarre things I've ever heard of.
Two people who were comatose in a hospital who had been in a comatose state for a long time, evidently, after a UFO visit to the hospital, showed puncture marks in the abdomen of the woman and an incision on the underside of the penis of the man.
And these are people who hadn't been conscious for months.
So it's hard to know.
Now, also the substance abuse issue does come up because these are very psychologically undermining experiences.
And the demographics, when we did the Roper survey, of people who had answered yes to four out of five of our indicator questions, we thought were possible abectees, just fell across all ethnic, racial, gender, socioeconomic, educational levels, and so forth.
Listen, I've been trying to discuss this situation for a long time, and I tried calling that number out in Arizona, and they would never return my call.
Here's what happened.
The night that all of the lights went out on the East Coast, I think it was like 65 or 66.
Well, that afternoon, while I was with my parent, my mother, we were driving in West Covina, California, and I would say I saw flying saucer.
I was amazed at the time because I was a young fellow, about 15.
I saw three or four jet planes following it, and I noticed that they fired what I thought was a missile, and the thing exploded.
And it was headed eastbound.
This would have been toward the Pomona area.
And that night, as I say, all of the lights went out on the east coast.
The lights also went out in the San Gabriel Valley of California around 8.30 that night.
Well, now you said you reported this to a number in Arizona.
I'm not sure what number there are lots.
It's numbers that come and go here.
What I would appreciate if you could write to us at the address that we've given and we'd have somebody get in touch with you, get some more information.
We, again, don't know whether this is deliberate, whether they can sort of zap someone's car or whether it's a side effect of whatever propulsion system they're using, whatever that is.
But just to tell you a really fascinating recent situation, Dr. David Jacobs was working with a woman who was quite petrified.
She thought something was going to happen to her that night.
She called him.
Her husband was away.
The two children were asleep.
Anyway, to make a long story short, he got her to set up a video camera in the bedroom, which she had used on other occasions.
Trained on the bed.
And she went to sleep.
There was enough light, and it was set at half speed, so it would run for eight hours.
She went to sleep with the children in the bed.
When she woke up in the morning, she'd been asleep about eight hours, and there was still 25% of the tape unexposed.
And it was still running.
When she turned the tape on, it showed the image of her waking up, which she did not remember, getting out of bed and carrying each of the children away from the bedroom.
Now, that means that that camera had stopped, whether this was, but it was shut off at the source or whether the power was interrupted.
And it was off for the time that the abduction evidently took place.
And so when she was placed back in bed, this is all speculation, but when she was placed back in bed with the children and the UFO left and the power resumed, the camera just started going again.
But here you have an impossibility.
There was no way that the film could have stopped and started this way without somebody doing it or some interruption to the power supply.
Otherwise, she would have filmed herself getting in bed.
But I have a little description of an incident I had while flying in an airplane myself as pilot.
I'm a private pilot.
I was eastbound out of Sacramento, California, heading towards Placerville, just a little south of Mather Air Force Base, which was an active base.
It was about 10 years ago.
I don't remember the exact date.
I remember it as springtime.
And off in the distance, about my 11 o'clock range or field of view, I saw a very bright light.
My first interpretation was it was probably a B-52 out there with his landing light on on approach to Mather.
So I just studied it, watched it, and kept note of it because he was out there in the direction I was flying.
And all of a sudden, this light proceeded north at an extremely high rate of speed.
I mean extremely, it went almost out of sight within, say, two seconds.
That's fast.
And the funny part about it, if that was an aircraft of any type, a vehicle that navigates through the air and had a headlight on the front of it, or a landing light on the front of it, if he turned away from me, the light would disappear.
And I'd appreciate it if you wrote in so we could get some of the data down.
And there are people who collect these reports.
Incidentally, I don't want to duly alarm you, but I have dealt with three different pilots, five of pilots, who had UFO sightings and who had, while they were flying, and actually two of them were at daytime, one at night, and they had missing time experiences in the air.
unidentified
They were in the air longer than they had fuel for.
Well, I would like to hear from you about that, sir.
If you could write to me at the address that I'm sure Art will give again, I would like to follow up on this because we have cases like this which involve quite a few cars.
Now, these experiences, many people in a cliché way, think that this is just something that happened to one person at a time, but I have cases which involve conceivably hundreds of people at once.
And certainly in abduction cases where I've investigated them where the same experience happened to everybody, seven people at once and so forth.
But your situation, I think, should be looked into.
Do you have any idea of how much time elapsed?
unidentified
See, that's the whole thing, is I'm really not certain because it's, well, things like this happen out of the blue.
You know, obviously the after effects of these experiences are unfortunate enough just psychologically that I hate to suggest even more possible problems to people.
But things have happened.
I did look into an automobile accident once that seems to actually, a couple of them seem to have had causes related to this where it would seem nothing was done deliberately, but in one case it seems the car was stopped and the people were switched off or taken, and then the car was started up before the people were fully conscious and an accident occurred.
And it's, you know, I'm still getting, I figure, even though the books have been out for quite a while, Intruders are missing time, I'm still getting probably two new cases, potential cases a day.
And, you know, some of these people are calling in in tears and terrified.
And it's, I have some people working with me and some volunteers, and I've gotten some funding and so forth.
But our organization, that's one of the things with Intruders Foundation, we have a newsletter, and we're just about to do another one.
We're way behind on getting it out.
It's 22 pages.
I believe that's it.
And we're going to be dealing with children's experiences and how to handle the problem with your little child is reporting these experiences.
But at any rate, if people subscribe, it's $25 a year and join if, and that entitles you to four of the newsletters, plus special reports from time to time, and the knowledge that you're helping to support a referral service, which is national.
I haven't been listening for about 10 minutes, so I don't know what you've been talking about, but about the abductions and the implants.
Yes.
Okay.
Now, and of course when you enter into these discussions, you have levels of credibility and proof that really work along a mathematical scale.
Like the more you can really prove, the less you really find out.
So as a preliminary statement, you might want to listen more to the uncredible or the people you might be able to really discredit their information because they smoke and they drink and that kind of thing.
Anyway, I had this thing in my nose.
And it's like, I always wondered what it was.
And I've got these things in my ears, too.
But they're really small.
They seem organic.
And I didn't know what it was.
Maybe like some kind of a calcium deposit or something.
But I don't know.
And, you know, for me, it's not a scary thing because it's kind of me in a way.
However, my feeling is if you're really concerned about it, serious about it, I'd really have it looked at by an ENT man is what you really need to do.
He calls you as though you are going to declare they are suddenly alien objects.
And I guess people have to go out and find out for themselves.
On the wildcard line, you're on the air with Bud Hopkins.
Good evening.
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Yes, Mr. Hopkins and Mr. Bell, I think most reported cases of abduction by aliens are not true, but there are some authentic cases, and these are examples of a government program of mind control in which people are given an hypnotic suggestion that they have been kidnapped by aliens.
So if the listeners want the truth about this, they should get a copy of Martin Cannon's book, The Controllers, from a mail order service called Prevailing Winds Research in Santa Barbara.
I know about Martin Cannon's series, and I think that the government does a lot of nasty things, and perhaps some branches have done some nasty things, but it has nothing to do with explaining abduction accounts because if this were the case, it would have had to have started under, practically under Grover Cleveland or something like that in terms of the president.
As I listen to your program, I'm also sitting here reading the April issue of Hominy magazine.
And the lion's share of this magazine covers the same topic that you're talking about.
I just wondered if Bob would know some of the people that mentioned.
One of them is a Bob Lazar, L-A-Z-A-R, who is a propulsion system engineer who claims to have been hired to examine one of the disks that they had found.
And he claims that it is propelled by gravity waves.
I'm curious to know what Bud's opinion is on speculation that our government is well aware of the abductions and the alien things that are going on, but either can't do anything about it and so keep it hushed up, or they're getting something in return and so keep it hushed up.
There is another technique that has been used, and of course, people have talked about sodium pentathol and that type of thing, although that's not something I have any use for myself.
Hypnotic regression works very, very well.
There is a new technique which is being used by some psychologists.
It involves rapid movement of the eyes to, I don't know what the motor connection is with memory, but there seems to be one, and it has been used successfully by a number of people to elicit information.
You would have to go to somebody trained in that technique, but hypnosis is a very useful technique in the meantime and safe.
Well, yes, in the sense that new things are coming to light all the time, and we don't know whether they're a new trend or whether they've been going on for a long time.
This particular thing I'm going to mention, I think, has been going on a long time, and that is the UFO occupants seem very interested in how we form relationships.
And I just dealt with a couple who are about to get married, and they're in their 20s, and when they first met exactly a year ago, they realized that they knew one another.
They didn't know how, but they knew a lot about each other, and there were some amazing connections.
I mean, for instance, one of them remembered that the other had a birthmark on his chest.
They knew a lot about their backgrounds and how they looked and talked when they were younger and how they fixed their hair and everything else.
And it seems that they have been abducted over different periods of time at intervals and brought together as if the aliens were studying long-term the way relationships are formed.
Believe it or not, I have now maybe six or seven cases like this.
Now, this is something that has not really ever been made public, and I don't think it's all that common.
But it definitely seems that this has been a systematic arrangement, and even to this point that there's a man in the United States in his 40s who when he met an English woman here in the United States for the first time, she's about 41, they realized that they've known each other.
They couldn't place where.
They're both abductees, and when we looked into these experiences, they were first abducted when they were children.
But the basic point is that these people assumed all along when they remembered that they knew somebody, they assumed, well, it's a dream or something.
That story has been pretty much analyzed and discussed and explained away as a series of genuine navigational mistakes, people caught in a storm, and there doesn't seem to be a big mystery attached to it.
Now, other things have disappeared.
There was a pilot who disappeared, Fred Valencius, off the coast of Australia in 1977, and he was last heard talking on the radio.
I've heard the radio tape of me to broadcast to Melbourne Tower.
That's a genuine case.
The lost squadron, quote unquote, which did happen, seems to have a natural explanation, though, unfortunately.
And I can be reached there if you want information, a sample of the IF bulletin, information about subscriptions, or especially if you have something to report about personal experiences, we would like to hear from you.
At any rate, I certainly enjoy the program very much, Art, and I especially appreciate our listeners who have been so open about talking about their own personal experiences here.
If you'd like or even need, and I can understand that after hearing it, a copy of this program or any of the other programs in the Dreamland series, please call the following telephone number 24 hours a day to get it.
It is Area Code 503-664-7966.
Let me repeat that.
It's an important number if you want a copy of this program or any other Dreamland program.
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Next Sunday, we'll be back with another Dreamland.
On behalf of everybody at the network, I'm Art Bell.