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Jan. 23, 1994 - Art Bell

01:47:31

Area 2000 with Art Bell - Leo Sprinkle - Reincarnation

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art bell

01:30:28

linda moulton howe

12:10

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art bell ▲ ● ▼		Grant from the Bigelow Foundation. Welcome to Area 2000.
		This program introduces our listeners to the scientific approach to discussion of two
		particular subjects, UFOs and near-death and after-death experiences. To contact the Bigelow
		Foundation during the work week, call Angela Thompson between 9 and 8.
unidentified		and 5 p.m.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		at area code 702-456-1606.
		That's Angela Thompson at area code 702-456-1606.
		And now, Area 2000.
		Good evening.
		Welcome to another Area 2000.
		I'm Mark Bell.
		Angela Thompson at area code 702-456-1606 and now Area 2000. Good evening. Welcome to another area 2000
		I'm Mark Bell And I want to remind our audience
		following this area 2000 There will only be two more
		more.
		They will occur on January 30th and February 6th.
		And what's going to occur next is going to be, uh, we're going to do another show, which we have now named Dreamland, and it will be a syndicated program, and you should contact your local affiliates about that.
		It'll be available toward the end of February.
		So good evening, everybody.
		Welcome to the program.
		So glad to have you here.
		We do have, fortunately, Linda Howe with us this weekend.
		Then we'll be speaking with Dr. Leo Sprinkle, who will speak on a couple of subjects, including UFOs, abduction research, and reincarnation.
		And he tells me he can mix them a little bit.
		So we'll get to that shortly.
		Right now, to Boulder, Colorado, The home of the National Bureau of Standards, WWV, which is also the temporary home of Linda Howe.
		So, out to Linda.
		Linda Howe, good evening.
linda moulton howe ▲ ● ▼		Hi, Art.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Hi.
linda moulton howe ▲ ● ▼		I'm glad to be back.
		It was a very rough week and a half.
		My mother has been very ill, but things have progressed, and I'm glad to be back on Area 2000.
		And while I have been gone the last week and a half, I have been trying to catch up on some very interesting news developments, and sort of at the top of my list is coming up Tuesday, January 25th, day after tomorrow, there will be a launch of a Titan 11G rocket that will carry an unusual spacecraft called Clementine toward the moon.
		Clementine was designed and built by the Ballistic Missile Defense Organization, also known as BMDO, Which was formerly known as the Strategic Defense Initiative, or our Star Wars FBI program, which has now evolved and changed its name to the Ballistic Missile Defense Organization.
		The Clementine mission is to map the entire surface of the Moon and to study an asteroid called 1620 Geographos.
		I think that a very interesting footnote is that in the Current Astronomy magazine, they make the point that we have a clearer surface mapping of the planet Venus than we do of our own moon, which is only 240 million miles away.
		And it's also been a question in my mind, what stops are returning to the moon to do further exploration and mapping After the Apollo program ended in the 60s to the early 70s.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Is the mission defined beyond the mapping, Linda?
linda moulton howe ▲ ● ▼		Well, the development of Clementine began in 1991, when NASA was suddenly reported to be concerned about the possibility of asteroids impacting our Earth with destructive force.
		NASA organized a study, then, called Space Guard, to plot orbits of any possible Earth-crossing asteroids And in fact, the then sitting Vice President was put in charge of one of those programs to study the possibility that an asteroid might impact with our planet and cause a lot of destruction.
		One such asteroid that has been identified as having an Earth-crossing orbit, not seeming that it is absolutely on target with the Earth, But that periodically it comes close to the Earth and is of some concern, this is 1620 Geographos.
		In August of 1994, 8 months from now, this asteroid will be the closest to Earth that it has been for a long time, about 4 million miles away.
		And at that time, the Clementine spacecraft is supposed to rendezvous and study the asteroid Which is especially interesting because it varies in brightness every five hours.
		It must be some angular piece of something that is tumbling and reflects the sunlight in different ways in a five-hour period.
		Well, this past week, a source close to the NASA Space Program and the Astronaut Training Program said, and this is a quote, I can tell you right now there are structures on the Moon There is no more elaboration or detail beyond that sentence, and I have heard allusions like this before, and it raises the question, is it possible that Clementine is part of the former SDI program, which we call Star Wars, because our government is trying to study another intelligence's activities on our moon?
		I don't know the answer for sure, but I know that I and others have had these provocative statements shared with us over the last decade about these structures and mining on the Moon, and the question is, if there are structures and there is mining, who is there, and what are they doing?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Right, yes.
linda moulton howe ▲ ● ▼		Now, government knowledge about an alien presence interacting with our Earth might have begun as long ago as 1947, or even earlier, And the 1947 beginning of this is that alleged crash of some kind of disc or something silver north of Roswell, New Mexico.
		Last summer, United States Representative Steve Schiff of New Mexico, who is a Republican, had so many inquiries coming to his office in the form of telephone calls and mail That he contacted, by letter, Secretary of Defense Les Aspin, and asked for more definitive information about these allegations of an extraterrestrial craft being found on the Brazo Ranch near Corona, New Mexico.
		When Representative Schiff did not receive an adequate response, he went to the General Accounting Office, which is the congressional investigative arm in our government, and he asked the GAO to put pressure on the Pentagon for answers.
		On January 12th, Of this year, this month, Representative Schiff was quoted in the Dallas newspaper as saying, the Dallas News, Dallas, Texas newspaper, as saying that both he and the GAO are frustrated by the Pentagon's, and this was the quote in the news story, stonewalling.
		The refusal since June of 1993 to provide any information about the alleged Roswell crash.
		Representative Schiff says that he does not know what crashed, But, and this is a quote from the news article, the issue is whether the government of the United States has been forthright with the American people, unquote, and if not, why not?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Linda, I don't know whether you knew it or not, but that made the front page of the Albuquerque newspaper.
linda moulton howe ▲ ● ▼		No, I did not know.
		I'm getting this information from the Dallas News.
		I'm glad to hear it did make it.
		It should make the front page of the Albuquerque newspaper.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, it did, and I've got a copy, which I'd be happy to share with you.
linda moulton howe ▲ ● ▼		Great!
		Well, now Representative Schiff says he wants to know why there appears now to be even stonewalling on his inquiries as a representative.
		He wants to know why there is a cover-up and he says now the government accounting office itself is curious about why the Pentagon is quote-unquote stonewalling and has not responded.
		I would say stay tuned for more developments on this story about congressional efforts to learn information not only about the 1947 Roswell crash but other aspects that the military and other people have been trying to report over the last few decades about their own involvement with other kinds of of alleged crash disk.
		This could be the beginning or the cracking, at least, of part of this story.
		And we'll see as we move along, maybe into Dreamland, how this begins to unfold, not only with the United States representative's efforts, but also the Sergeant Clifford Stone that I had on Area 2000 three weeks ago.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, it looks like exciting times are ahead.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		There's a lot going on.
linda moulton howe ▲ ● ▼		Well, and residents in the San Luis Valley here in Colorado have been reporting strange moving lights above the Sangre de Cristo Mountains again, very similar to the reports in September 1967, when that Appaloosa mare named Lady was found dead and stripped of flesh from the neck up.
		On December 13th, some witnesses reported that a large round light went from a position in the sky down into the ground, Which I had, myself, heard many reports from law enforcement as they tried to describe what they were encountering in the 70s in their efforts to investigate mutilations.
		And the next morning, on December 14th, which is now about a month and a week or so ago, near Eagle, Colorado, between Vail and Glenwood Springs, on the ranch of Lloyd Gerard, two animals were found mutilated.
		One was a young two-year-old female cow, dead, And the only thing that had been excised from the cow's body wasn't what the rancher said, was an 8-inch deep plug of tissue that had been removed from the brisket.
		Something like a biopsy plug.
		There was no blood.
		There were no tracks.
		And that same day, another rancher in Costilla County, Colorado, 40 miles north of New Mexico, found a 1,700-pound bull dead with its testicles and rectum removed.
		No blood, no tracks, and up to a week after the discovery, predator tracks came up to within 8 to 10 feet of the body, but the bull has remained untouched.
		This animal was examined by a veterinarian who said he could not determine the cause of death.
		Dr. John Altshuler, the pathologist and hematologist in Denver, who was on Area 2000 last week, and who has worked with me since 1989 to examine the tissue from some of these animals, ...did receive four excision samples from the bull and confirmed that under a microscope they had been cut with high heat.
		In the months before December, there were two other mutilations in the Eagle, Colorado area and in one of those cases, extremely unusual, this was investigated by the Eagle County Sheriff Two ranchers came to discuss this particular animal, and this was reported by the Eagle Valley Enterprise newspaper, that a cow, a female cow, was found inside of a potato barn, where the animal should not have been, and had never been before.
		And when they examined it, one side of the jaw, the flesh was completely stripped, and the flesh was stripped halfway down the neck, similar to Lady in 1957.
		And in the removal of the tissue in the neck, they could clearly see that the esophagus and the trachea were also missing in that neck.
		And this has been reported in several animals now in my file since 1989, the removal of trachea and esophagus for whatever reason.
		So, in this area of Patia County, up into the San Luis Valley, there have been many reports of amber-like Moving amber light, all kinds of, varying kinds of what we would call unidentified flying objects, and perhaps most interesting report, and I will end on this mystery, because as of today, it remains a mystery, but on January 12th, NORAD contacted the Rio Grande Sheriff's Office.
		He said that from one of our infrared satellites, then moving over the southern Colorado area, however large that area is, That they had what was called a peak bloom, meaning a bloom of color on the infrared image, and said there was a significant explosion in the San Luis Valley.
		The Rio Grande Sheriff's Office and others went into the valley to investigate.
		As of this, uh, end of this week, The San Luis Valley Courier-Newspaper had reported three stories on this, trying to find out what had happened.
		And as of today, there is no answer.
		What is it that NORAD picked up on infrared satellite over the San Luis Valley on January 12th that law enforcement have not been able to find an actual explosion.
		And three days later, on January 15th, Three witnesses reported to the newspaper and to other investigators that there were two bright amber objects moving at night over the valley from Monta Vista South in generally the same area.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Linda, I wonder how we can follow up on that, how to get more information.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's fascinating.
linda moulton howe ▲ ● ▼		Well, it is, and I will continue.
		In fact, I talked with a reporter tonight down in the San Luis Valley.
		He has sent me a package of photographs and other reports and newspaper articles and it
		will be on my desk when I finally, if I can get back into Philadelphia because of all
		the ice and the snow, but I plan to be back there at the end of this week and hopefully
		next Sunday I can even bring you more information about it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Alright, well hopefully you make it home very safely, and I'm sure glad you made it this week, Linda, and I wish the best, and I know everybody does, for your family.
linda moulton howe ▲ ● ▼		Thank you very much, and life must go on, and I'm glad we're back, and my mom is at least better.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Linda, thank you.
linda moulton howe ▲ ● ▼		Thank you, Art.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Take care.
		That's Linda Howe from Boulder, Colorado this evening, and then hopefully next week back home in Philadelphia.
		And it is my understanding she will continue with us, by the way, in the new program coming up called Dreamland.
		All right, now, I think you'll find this a fascinating segment this evening.
		Dr.
		Leo Sprinkle is a Ph.D., Professor Emeritus, Counseling Services at the University of Wyoming.
		He has many professional qualifications and has worked in all kinds of areas of psychology.
		He has worked in areas touching on ESP, hypnosis, reincarnation, UFO research.
		He has participated in many regional and national television programs, including ABC television.
		That's incredible.
		NBC's Tom Snyder Tomorrow Show.
		He's been invited to speak at several international conferences.
		In his family, have developed and marketed a booklet and videotape on self-hypnosis procedures entitled, Transforming to Words Yourself.
		From Laramie, Wyoming.
		Here is Dr. Leo Sprinkle.
		Dr. Sprinkle, good evening.
		Good evening, Art.
		Welcome to Area 2000.
		Thank you.
		Is that indeed where you are, in Laramie?
		In Laramie, Wyoming, right.
		It is beautiful country.
		It is.
		A little cool this time of year, but a very nice day today.
		Doctor, I'm not sure exactly where to start with you.
		I would think perhaps in the reincarnation area, if you wouldn't mind.
		All right.
		What research have you done with respect to reincarnation, and what have you come to accept as a result of whatever you've learned?
		Well, I started somewhat informally in the 60s because some client came in with concerns about why was a young man afraid of dogs, why was a young woman afraid of drowning, and so forth.
		And when I gave them hypnotic suggestions to go back to the earliest time when they were Experiencing these concerns, they slipped into what seemed to be a past life.
		I didn't accept it in those days.
		I thought it was nonsense.
		But I listened to them, and I tried to work with them, and I found out that they got better.
		And so I said, well, even if it's nonsense, it's pragmatically helpful to the people.
		And so I kept trying to read and learn more than I could, including Stevenson's 1966 book, Cases Possibly Suggestive Reincarnation.
		And I became interested and began to explore my own impressions of past life.
		But I was still skeptical about subjective views.
		Doctor, if I can stop you for just a second.
		You said you regressed patients and you noted they seemed to go into prior lives.
		What led you to that conclusion and how did that occur if you were not setting out in a hypnotic session to do that?
		Well, for example, a young man asked me if I could help him figure out why he was afraid of dogs, and so I said, well, sure, we can provide you with hypnotic suggestions to go back to age 10 or 8, 6, 4, find out if you were bitten by a dog or barked by a dog or some kind of traumatic event, and we can explore it, help you to ease the...
		Fear or the anguish about the experience and then release yourself from this fear which is standard practice for people with phobic reactions.
		Sure.
		And when I gave the suggestion to go back to various events earlier nothing was found and so I became somewhat impatient and I gave him the suggestion go back to the earliest time having to do with your fear of dogs and he went back to what seemed to be an experience as a medieval Woodsman in Europe, who was being chased by wolves, pulled down and eaten alive.
		And he was groaning and moaning.
		He was obviously in great discomfort.
		And I suggested he come back to the normal state.
		He said, no, no, leave me alone.
		And he worked it through and afterwards said, thank you very much.
		Shook my hand and walked out of the office saying he now understood why he was afraid of dogs.
		How were you able to place him in another life?
		And I can imagine at that moment, when you realized what it was, however it was you realized it, it must have been sort of chilling.
		Yes, because I didn't accept the notion of reincarnation, and yet I accepted the notion that he was very emotionally upset and that he was responding to my suggestions, responding to questions.
		So I just kept it as an uncertain But helpful outcome to him and then somewhat later a young woman came in and asking me to help her figure out why she was afraid of drowning And I gave her the same spiel, you know, we'll go back to age earlier times and I gave her suggestions to review experiences of age 10 and 8, 6, 4, 2, nothing that we could come up with Thinking that maybe she was an infant dropped by her mother in the bass net or something.
		I once more gave the suggestion that Can I ask a couple of questions?
		having to do fear of drowning and she started to groan and moan almost falling
		out of her chair she pictured herself as a man a pirate who was so obnoxious that
		his fellows keelhauled him putting him behind the ship on a rope almost
		drowning over and over and over. Can I ask a couple of questions when when she
		slipped into that or the first patient you had were there any notable changes
		in their manner of speech or exactly how did you say to yourself good lord we're
		not in this life or in some other life What did that for you?
		Well, yes, it's not only their mannerisms and their bodily behavior, but also their talk.
		Not so much different in the sense that it was a theatrical drama, although I thought to myself, maybe they're conning me, maybe they are An actor or actress, but in the 60s that just wasn't a likely thing to happen.
	And so I found out later as I read other reports from other psychologists and psychiatrists that this is what many people have found, that as they gave these kinds of suggestions that people spontaneously slipped into, what they felt was a past life experience.
	So I began to correspond with Dr. Helen Wambach, a psychologist out in California and went out there during an American Psychological
	Association meeting and talked with her about her data from workshops. And so in 1978
	joined a couple of dozen people who were learning how to present these workshops. And over
	the last 15 years my wife and I have put on 155 workshops or so to about 2,000 people. And so
	along with individual hypnosis sessions I've also had the benefit of reading the reports
	from people who participate in the workshops. And even though there is a doubt and
	uncertainty about the images it's quite apparent to me that most people are able to recall
	what seems to be past life experiences and to recognize that these impressions are so
	significant to them that whether they believe or do not believe in reincarnation they recognize
	that their inner world is much more complex than they previously believed.
	How many people, without the aid of hypnosis, Dr. Sprinkle, do you suppose become consciously aware of aspects of a prior life?
	I say again, consciously.
	People report these, poets and authors, Mark Twain and many, many others.
	A book by Hedon Cranston called Reincarnation in World Thought provides a series of reports
	by people who during reverie or daydreaming or dreams or meditation, whatever, recall
	what they feel are impressions of other lives so that it may or may not occur on the basis
	of hypnosis alone.
	One expert, Dr. Stevenson, professor of psychiatry at the University of Virginia, he's skeptical
	of use of hypnosis for adults.
	However, he does think that children spontaneously recall other lifetimes and he's written several
	books on his studies of children throughout the world.
	That would make sense, wouldn't it, since it would be a fresher memory, if you could
	say that.
	Especially between two and five, six, those years where children are less constricted
	in terms of what they distinguish between something that's happening inside or outside.
	So they seem to be much more willing to talk about those experiences.
	And I have a little book by Peterson called Secret Life of Kids.
	It describes the paranormal psychic experiences of youngsters and how parents and teachers can help them deal with these experiences.
	All right.
	Doctor, hold for just one second while we ID the station here.
	You're listening to Dr. Leo Sprinkle.
	This, of course, is Area 2000.
	830 Pacific Time.
unidentified		From Jackie Gons' Plaza downtown, this is KDWN Las Vegas.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Good evening.
		Welcome back.
		This, of course, is Area 2000.
		I'm Art Bell.
		My guest is Dr. Leo Sprinkle.
		And right now, the subject is reincarnation.
		Dr. Sprinkle, With all the research you've done and all the studying you've done on this subject, how sure are you personally that reincarnation is a fact?
		I always give myself a little skeptical view about it.
		If I'm on a scale of 1 to 10, I'd say 9.
		Because I recognize the possibility that I may be wrong, that the process may be somewhat different than I envision it to be.
		But in terms of philosophy, in terms of impact upon a person's life, I'm very impressed with what happens when a person takes the philosophy of reincarnationism.
		Because it seems as if it provides a person with A view of being a little more kind, a little more gentle towards others, because whatever we send out, if we send out hate and violence, we're likely to get it back.
		If we send out love and compassion, we're likely to get that back.
		So, whether it's true or not, I like the philosophy of the Incarnation.
		Well, it is, it is, it is a nice one.
		When you say we get it back, do you mean in this lifetime or ultimately?
		Sincerely, it seems like it's a long-range justice.
unidentified		Yeah.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It's a puzzle about that when I was a kid, you know, if God is good, and God is love and how can terrible things happen?
		Well now I can see experiences in terms of people's lives that would suggest over a period of several lifetimes
		that whatever we send out we get back.
		Or as the biblical phrase, as the soul shall we reap.
		I don't want to get off on this, but I am curious how you reconcile this
		with Christianity's view of what happens to the soul.
		Do you find, let me just ask, is there some way to reconcile the two?
		Oh yes.
		A book by McGregor is a good one, Reincarnation in Christianity.
		Apparently the early Christians, like the Jews, accepted reincarnation.
		But then the later Christians, in time of Rome, 523 A.D., it seemed as if the changing views about the resurrection versus reincarnation seemed to occur
		when the priests sought to have more power.
		And so those Christians who accepted reincarnation, those who did not, were at odds.
		And so one group of Christians killed out the other group of Christians.
		Good, compassionate attitude.
		I guess in one sense, one could imagine that the behavior in this lifetime
		to connect it with something you said earlier, could in effect produce a heaven or a hell in the next
		lifetime or some succeeding lifetime.
		Or in this lifetime.
		Jesus was quoted as saying to the woman at the well, the kingdom of heaven is within.
		It may well be that we create within ourselves each lifetime what our concepts are about heaven and hell.
		All right, I want to hopscotch around a little bit.
		I see here you've done some research on ESP.
		Yes, back in the 60s when I was at the University of North Dakota, I assisted a doctoral student with his, or a master's student, he later went on for doctorate, with his study, and done a few studies, various kinds, laboratory studies, but the primary interest has been in the application of these experiences to people's lives.
		I have had one very strong experience with ESP, Doctor.
		It's only occurred once in my life, but it was unmistakable.
		And what I've always found curious is whether or not a person with this ability can nurture it, whether there are ways to improve one's ESP.
		Has there been any work done along those lines?
		Dr. Charlie Tartt, Charles Honerton, many others have conducted studies
		showing that like most human abilities, sustained and disciplined approaches can be very helpful to
		people who are seeking to increase their ability,
		whether it's in regard to psychokinetic effects or telepathy or clairvoyance, precognition.
		How does this reinforcement of behavior, just like any other learning skill,
		seem to improve the ability?
		Well, my little experience came on me and I had no control over it,
		When it went away, it went away.
		And I've never been able to get it back.
		So I have no idea what I did to produce it.
		I was in a perfectly reasonable, awake, conscious, daytime state when it occurred.
		And afterwards, I was kind of shaken, but otherwise normal.
		And so, what kind of state does one get in to encourage such a happening?
		For most people, it's spontaneous, and they're not sure exactly what happened.
		You know, like a near-death experience, out-of-body experience, or accident, illness.
		But for some people, through meditation and self-hypnosis, are able to get into what some people, you know, athletes will call it the zone.
		Other people will call it altered states, where they feel as if time is standing still, that they are very much aware of what is going on inside them.
		They may or may not be aware of what's going on outside them, but many people believe that by fostering that internal meditative state that they're able to increase the opportunities for psychic experiences.
		But other people say it doesn't seem to be something that they can produce consciously.
		They can produce the state, but then the effect may or may not occur.
		Yes.
		Fascinating.
		If only we knew what tripped it.
		Yes, indeed.
		Well, there seems to be a lot of studies going on, and of course, even though we're not privy to it, the rumors are that many military agencies are also interested in Mind-altering conditions.
		Is there any documentation that you're aware of of people who are able to affect any sort of material object or actually do something, the old mind over matter business?
		Yeah, there's some studies.
		Some parapsychologists claim that the PK, the psychokinetic effect, is not as strong in the mediums today as it used to be.
		In humans, some of the others who were able to produce ectoplasm or levitation or other things that were noted by many people around them.
		I have seen, I've watched a woman who was working with Charles Honington when he was still alive and she was able mentally to move an object along a platform, you know, along a Like a desk, a piece of wood.
		Yes.
		It took a lot of energy, and she got tired of the... It's just like an athlete.
		You have to practice several hours a day.
		And so, some of the Soviet, former Soviet people have been able to produce effects of moving objects, but the movies, you know, where people are able to move cars and things like that, that doesn't seem to be within the realm of feasibility, but... Doctor, would this suggest to you that in human evolution, we're beginning to In effect, forget this ability, evolve away from it, or do you think we are evolving toward it?
		There are some people who argue both ways.
		My own feeling is that it depends on what's encouraged.
	You know, many primitive societies keep track of one another through mental communication, and Ingo Swann's new book on the Nostradamus factor describes his growing up in a little town Colorado Telluride where people would gather and say oh there's going to be an avalanche this afternoon yeah I think it'll happen around three o'clock and the society of the community because it was of concern to them and the safety of the townspeople would support their views and their actions their subculture so it seems to me that we have gotten away from that earlier notion with our interest in
	Technical communication.
	Now I think since technical communication is so well advanced and people may be having a bit more leisure if economically we are able.
	I don't know whether that's going to happen or not but if it does it may provide more people with an opportunity not only to exercise the body but also exercise the mind and the spirit and it may well be that we will increase our interest in Paranormal communication.
	So in other words, it still may be there.
	It's always there.
	It's just whether we choose to pursue it or not.
	Right.
	Same way with healing.
	I think people naturally have the ability to heal, but whether we will foster healing through physical or biological or psychological or spiritual means depends on whether we will focus on that level.
	How much of disease, human disease and discomfort do you suppose is controllable psychologically?
	It's a marvelous question.
	I think we have so much more potential.
	There's an article in the current issue of the Regression Therapy Journal of the American Association of Past Life Research and Therapies in which a ten year study was conducted with hundreds of people showing that regardless of whether People had cancer or dandruff or whatever the condition might be that through individual therapy, through individual focus, that about 8 out of 10 people reported some improvement.
	Some people reported dramatic improvement.
	Even if a person didn't change his or her condition, there seemed to be an ability to tolerate these symptoms and to live a better life as a result of that.
	So I think that The next few years, as more UFO information comes out, as more ESP information comes out, hidden in government files, I think that a majority of people will be more concerned about the possibility that we have a greater human potential than we previously realized.
	Well, I guess you heard Linda's report, and indeed, she was absolutely right on the money.
	There is going to be a new investigation by the GAO about the Roswell incident.
	Yes.
	Linda's so capable.
	She's done so much good work over the years.
	It's impressive to see how she keeps tabs on what's currently happening.
	Well, do you suppose something like this could break it all open, Doctor?
	Have you given any thought to that?
	The government, kind of like they decided with the A horrendous nuclear testing that we've now found out they've done, that they may decide at some point just to let this go.
	I think that's a good possibility.
	Of course, you know, I used to think it was going to happen in the 60s and the 70s and the 80s.
	Now I'm hoping it's going to happen in the 90s, that government officials will recognize that the pressures on them to keep information closed I know that you've done a lot of UFO research, and I would ask you this.
	open it up and it may well be the rumors are increasing that perhaps in the next few years
	there will be a willingness on the part of governments to open up and share information
	with the public.
	I hope so.
	I know that you've done a lot of UFO research and I would ask you this.
	Do you, is it your belief that we are being or have been visited by aliens?
	Yes, I started in UFO research in the 60s when I finished doctoral studies at the University
	I went to the University of North Dakota and, with the help of Richard Hall, conducted a study of 250 NICAP members, National Investigations Committee on Aerial Phenomena, trying to find out if they were more open-minded or closed-minded than a group of professors there.
	And then I, in the 63's and 64, started a long-range study of people who describe UFO experiences,
	asking them to take personality inventories.
	I did a four-year study of 84 people, 64 to 68, and then when I started another long-range study,
	well, Dr. June Parnell did her dissertation study, and I was convinced not only in the 60's that people were
	normal, describing them as normal, but that they were not.
	I think so.
	these events, but also that the objects that they came in contact with and the GTs that
	they came in contact with definitely showed that either extraterrestrial or extra-dimensional
	entities were interacting with us. So I've had that belief for many, many years.
	So whoever they are, they are here. I think so.
	My question then would be, who are they to us?
	It's a good question and I don't know the answer.
	A lot of people claim they know, and maybe they're right.
	It seems to me that the studies of people like Richard Thompson, who's written a book on the Vedic traditions, the ancient Hindu traditions, and Dr. Reverend Bowning, Bible and Flying Saucers, it seems to me that... and Fitchin's books on the gods and humans, The best thing that I can come up with, based upon these studies of ancient times, is that we've been around with humans forever, so that we are involved.
	Heaven and Earth are conjoined, but right now not formally.
	I'm hoping that someday Heaven and Earth will be conjoined formally.
	Well, I guess I ask you that because of the mix of your research.
	In other words, as you look at reincarnation, and you look at the fact of some sort of presence here, do you find them connected?
	I think so.
	I know many people I talk with are not so sure.
	They may be frightened by the experience.
	For example, one young man, during hypnosis session, helping him to explore his memory of an encounter, It felt like he'd been taken aboard a craft, examined, and felt very apprehensive and groaning and moaning during the session.
	When he returned to his normal state, his eyes were wide open and he was aghast.
	He said, Leo, do you think this is war?
	And I said, no, I don't think so.
	I think it's work.
	He said, work?
	I said, yes, I think it's education.
	I will believe that UFO phenomena are being presented to us as a puzzle.
	So that each individual feels initiated and society feels stimulated because we don't know what it means.
	And so we have to kind of band together in our fear and our doubt.
	And so the hypothesis that I like is that the UFO activity is a mirror.
	And it reflects back to us what we're like.
	If we project onto them that they're warlike, it may be a projection of ourselves.
	If we project onto them that they are here to eat us or to harm us or to control us, it may well be that this is a view we have about anybody with power and with knowledge.
	It may well be that as we learn more about ourselves, Then we will gradually be able to learn more about them.
	I wonder if you remember a very old movie called Forbidden Planet?
	Oh, yes.
	Where the horrible monster that tracked them down was actually, I believe, a creation of one man's mind.
	And that's what was called a mind when you just said what you said, as though we project to them what we think they are, and that is in fact what they become.
	It could be, temporarily for each person.
	So some people have a terrible, horrible, painful experience.
	Some people have a puzzling, confusing experience.
	Some people have a marvelous, beautiful experience.
	And so it may well be that there are various races, various civilizations who are coming to survey, and that's the explanation that some people accept.
	Or it may be that They're like teachers.
	I like the educational model, being a professor, and I think that some people hate their teachers, and some love their teachers, and some are bored and apathetic to their teachers.
	It may well be that that could be an explanation for why we have different kinds of UFO encounters.
	Do you lecture on these subjects at the University in Wyoming?
	Well, I'm no longer associated with the University.
	I left in 1959.
	The pressure's on me to keep quiet were getting fairly strong. So when the
	pressures affected my relationships with my graduate students then that was too much for me. So I left
	in 89 and went into private practice as a counseling psychologist. When I was there I would give
	talks to students and faculty.
	Well one of my questions was going to be how this affected and has affected even since your career.
	Well in general it's been okay.
	There have been a few faculty members who were very supportive.
	There were a few who were very critical.
	Most of them didn't give a damn.
	They were busy doing their own thing and trying to keep their research going, so it just depended upon the particular persons as to their reaction.
	In some ways it was difficult to publish papers and to get the kind of increase in rank that
	I sought, but then of course that can happen to anybody regardless of what kind of topics
	they're dealing with.
	But the marvelous thing has been that I've had an opportunity to meet with interesting
	professional people and I've met with thousands of marvelous people whose courage and willingness
	to share information has really made them heroes in my eyes.
	I've received so much information and sharing from many women and many men all over the
	country and from foreign countries as well.
	Given an opportunity to start all over again, would you pursue the same path?
	Yes.
	I had UFO sighting when I was a college student in 1949 at the University of Colorado, and my buddy and I, we didn't know what we were seeing.
	We tried to think of it as an airplane or helicopter, and it shattered my notion of Western science.
	To see a flying saucer in daylight.
	I hadn't been looking at people who claimed to see UFOs.
	And so then in 1956, when my wife and I had a sighting, for several years there, I'd kept quiet because I was shy, I was worried, I didn't want to talk about it.
	Finally, after the second sighting, I knew I had to conduct research and I knew it was going to be lonely.
	So I made a conscious, deliberate choice to...
	Can you give us some description of what you actually saw the first time?
	How much did you see? You said it was a daylight sighting.
	They're very interesting.
	My buddy and I, Joe Wagner, were coming out of...
	I was a sophomore at the University of Colorado.
	I think it was autumn of 49.
	And we had gone to a meeting on general semantics, how people see the universe and reality.
	And we were coming out and we were playing a little game, saying, what do you see over there?
	Well, I call it the tree. How do you describe it?
	Well, I say it has a trunk and limbs and leaves.
	And then we said, what do you see over there?
	What what do we see?
	We looked toward the western sky and moving from the south to north over the Arts and Science building Helms Hall was a what seemed to be elliptical shaped object.
	It appeared to be metallic.
	I wasn't certain if it was reflecting the light of the setting sun or whether some kind of internal locus of light but there seemed to be a little blip of light on the edge of the object.
	About every second, blip, blip, blip.
	I tried to turn it into an airplane or a helicopter or a balloon, but it just wouldn't go.
	There was no sound that we could hear.
	Later, as we talked about it, it seemed to be about the size of a fingernail at arm's length.
	But we didn't know how large it was.
	We didn't know how far away it was.
	If it were the size of an airplane, it would be going faster than jets did in 1949.
	They weren't going very fast in those days.
	But if it were a larger size, it would be going very, very fast.
	If it were a smaller size, of course, it could be going very much slower.
	So we didn't know what it was that we saw, but we talked about it among ourselves, but I didn't want to talk about it to anybody else.
	In fact, I went into kind of a little depression and lost my scholarship, and I was just bamboozled by it because I couldn't explain it and because I didn't want to think that flying saucers were real.
	But then in 1956, when my wife and I saw A glowing light or an object over Boulder after the sun had gone down.
	Well, then it moved and I stopped the car.
	We got out and it hovered and moved.
	It was below the Flatirons, the Rocky Mountain foothills, and no sound.
	So I knew it was no airplane or no helicopter, and it couldn't be a star or a planet below the horizon.
	So, after that second sighting, I knew that flying saucers were real.
	I'm slow, but I've had two sightings, and I started to read reports, Frank Edwards, Kehoe, and others, and... It really sounds as though it had a very profound effect on your life.
	That's right, uh-huh.
	And I've gone even farther in a little paper where I think that it had a psychological analysis, that it has... I think that people who have sightings are not only looking at something physical, but they're
	also having a psychic experience.
	I think that they are having some kinds of mental communication,
	and this can be a very powerful influence on their lives.
	If they choose to, they can allow it to have... send them for a tailspin,
	or if they wish, they can be on a grand adventure.
	Huh.
	Um, I don't know if it's always grand.
	I know that a lot of people, particularly professional people, when they begin biting into all of this, find it's pretty sour indeed, because they get a lot of criticism from their colleagues.
	Yeah, I think that that's part of the plan.
	There's a guy named Deardorff, Dr. Jim Deardorff, Professor Emeritus of Atmospheric Sciences, Oregon State, and he argues that the E.T.
	strategy for Earth would be to puzzle people, And to provide information without physical evidence so that they have to grapple philosophical with their experiences.
	And the motivation?
	The motivation is twofold.
	To get the information out to the general public so that the public becomes aware of the E.T.
	presence.
	And yet minimize the interest of the conventional scientist and the conventional official.
	That way the dominant culture remains unaware of the E.T.
	presence, even though most people, you know, average woman and man, is aware that E.T.s are here.
	Then later, after the panic is more personal and private rather than collective and communal, well then, more and more evidence gradually would be introduced that would become more interesting to the conventional scientist, the conventional official.
	So it's more like a grassroots phenomenon, so that we bug the governments, and finally the governments accept the reality, and then the governments can turn toward the ETs.
	If the ETs came in, according to this hypothesis, and landed on the White House lawn, we'd either regard them as angels or devils, and either kowtow to them, or else shoot at them.
	I think we'd shoot at them.
	I think you're right.
	I've done a lot of programs of this sort, Doctor, and enough of the people that we'll call when commenting on a subject like this will say exactly that, that they would regard them as angels or devils, more likely devils, and would fill them full of lead.
	So, what about the greater consequences, social consequences of contact?
	Would there be, in your estimation, panic, acceptance, What effect would it have, for example, on our modern society?
	There's a nice little book by Lindemann on this, and also some studies back in the 30s and 40s which would suggest at that time that we would panic.
	And I think we have.
	I think we've panicked at a slow level.
	I think that the Cold War, after World War II, was our subconscious recognition that ETs are here.
	And so that way we could blame communists or fascists, we could blame KPG or CIA or the devil or whoever our favorite bad guy is for why things are going so badly.
	But I think underneath we recognize that World War II, the ET presence was already being felt.
	So that now I think the Cold War is over.
	And cold world, isn't it?
	I slipped.
	And we're still a cold world.
	Well, I hope you're right about that.
	Events in Russia are a little unsettling, actually.
	Maybe we're going to warm up a little bit more.
	But it seems to me that now we're in a position to say, hey, we've got satellites out there.
	We've got rockets going out there.
	We've reached the moon.
	We can travel beyond.
	Now we're growing up, maybe we are ready for contact.
	And I think that contact is not likely to be formal right away.
	I think it's going to be conscious, consciousness, dreams, meditation for a little while longer before there's any kind of formal contact.
	In fact, maybe we'll never see them.
	Maybe we'll just go out in a couple hundred years and meet them out there.
	I'd rather thought, Doctor, that it might develop about the way Watergate did.
	That some newspaper would start in on it, or maybe as a result of the Albuquerque investigation, or whatever.
	Something like that would slowly pull the information, perhaps from a willing government, that would let it out bit by bit by bit, so it wouldn't be one single shot, and the revelation would come over a sort of a period of time.
	Would that make sense?
	That sounds like a good scenario.
	Yes.
	I can also see the possibility that think tanks could be set up and the UN could be involved so that all nations would be in on the game plan.
	Exactly.
	As we head toward the new one world whatever it's going to be.
	Doctor, we are at the top of the hour so I'm going to ask you to hold on.
	Alright.
	And we'll do a little news and come right back.
	Thank you.
	Doctor Leo Sprinkle is my guest.
	All the way from Wyoming.
	And we'll get back to him in a moment.
	You're listening, of course, to Area 2000.
	I'm RFL.
	Reminding you, um, we will continue with another program when Area 2000 ends.
	It is going to be called Dreamland.
unidentified		We'll be back.
		From Jackie Gons Pleasure Downtown, this is KDWN Las Vegas.
		To be continued...
art bell ▲ ● ▼		His expertise wide-ranging in areas like ESP, hypnosis, reincarnation, UFO research, and he ties it all together.
		So back now to Wyoming and Dr. Sprinkle.
		Dr. Sprinkle.
		Yes.
		Good.
		You're still there.
		Yes, I am.
		Thank you.
		Okay.
		Gee, there are so many areas that we can talk about.
		I want to touch briefly on hypnosis, generally, if I can.
		Okay.
		There are so many views with regard to hypnosis.
		Some people in your field believe that patients, in fact, are given to flights of fancy in a hypnotic state.
		What's your view?
		Yes, it just depends on what one means by flights of fancy.
		If a person means that people are more likely to lie than usual, well, I think that the best aphorism about hypnosis is that during the trance state, a person can do better whatever it is that he or she is trying to do.
		If he or she is trying to relax, then he or she can relax a little bit better.
		If a person is trying to lie, a person can lie a little bit better.
		If a person is trying to be more honest or more aware, whatever it is that a person is seeking to accomplish, Yes.
		and it probably can be accomplished a little bit better with the hypnotic techniques, resistance
		to pain, etc. etc.
		So then the veracity of the person otherwise is very important.
		Yes, people don't change all that much from altered state to the way they are in everyday
		life although some people are so surprised that they can resist pain or that they can
		relax better so they regard it as a very unusual state but once a person practices it's like
		watching an athlete walk along and say well that guy is just a normal guy or she's just
		And yet then we see him or her play tennis or swim or whatever.
		They display skills that are not commonly displayed by most people.
		Then we're very impressed with that.
		Well, the same way a person who goes into the trans state Most people are able to produce more effects than they previously were able to do.
		Is there anything dangerous about hypnosis?
		The danger is that we might forget to tell ourselves that we're in a trance state, and if we've been telling ourselves, I shall feel no pain, and then I come out without letting myself know that I am trying to do the same thing that I was doing before, there could be some danger, but the danger Is in the suggestion or not recognizing that we are still following the plan.
		The danger is not so great in terms of the state itself.
		It's a very natural state.
		Most people go into what is called hypnosis every day, but most people don't call it hypnosis.
		They may call it relaxation, concentration, prayer, meditation, goofing off.
		It depends upon what a person calls that state where they relax the body, They might close the eyes or look off into the distance and then go inside.
		It's really an internal focus and that's what is the reason that most people are surprised that they can accomplish this and they think that they're going to be out.
		They think they're going to be asleep.
		And it's not that way?
		No.
		Most people are much more aware, in fact, than their normal state.
		They can listen to a concert or they can watch TV if they keep their eyes open or listen to a That's fascinating.
		When you hypnotize yourself, in other words, when there is a hypnotist, these are very basic questions, I'm sorry I don't know a lot about it, but a hypnotist brings a patient out of a trance.
		When you hypnotize yourself, who brings you out, or how do you get out?
		Most people who are unskilled would just go into a little nap and then they'd wake up in the normal state.
		If a person is trained as self-hypnotist or meditator, then he or she could offer the statement, I will relax deeply and go deeper and deeper.
		When I return to the normal state, I can be alert, feeling fine, feeling good.
		This is kind of the same thing a person would do under the Can a good hypnotist take a patient into a much deeper state than that patient could achieve by themselves?
		Under normal circumstances it's easier because there are two jobs.
		One is to give a suggestion and the other is to follow it.
		Some of them say that they can go into the trance state quickly and easily, but if I'm helping them, then they can focus on whatever it is that they wish to work on, you know, whether it's to ease pain or whether it's to go back in memory, to remember where they left.
		One woman wrote to me recently, wants to know if I can find a watch that she put away.
		Some people give themselves terrible suggestions.
		They say, I'm going to put this where nobody will find it.
		I do that all the time.
		And of course that means that they won't find it either, and then later they forget about it.
		If they give themselves a suggestion, I'm going to put this where nobody else will find it, but I'll be able to remember where it is, and they've given themselves a suggestion, they'll be able to recall where they put it.
		So even in that apparent conscious state, you can do that?
		Oh yes.
		People all the time will tell themselves, lousy things are good things.
		They'll tell themselves, I'm so miserable that I deserve a bad grade, or I'm such a poor student, or I deserve to get sick.
		They may not be consciously trying to make themselves sick, but if they give themselves little suggestions like that continuously, they set themselves up for a miserable time.
	On the other hand, other people give themselves a suggestion.
	I'm going to keep working until I solve this problem.
	I'm going to become a good athlete, a good student.
	That's the difference between people who have the winning attitude and the losing attitude.
	Alright, Doctor.
	So then, could somebody, for example, give themselves a suggestion that they would see a UFO, or have an ESP experience, or something else of that sort, and make it so?
	Yes, right.
	Yeah, and a person can give themselves a suggestion that I didn't see a UFO, I didn't have a paranormal experience, and when they're questioned, well, they'll say, no, I didn't see a UFO.
	I've talked with a family of five or six people, and everybody except the father said they saw a flying saucer, and the father said, no, nobody saw such a thing.
	So the suggestion can work positively, and it can work negatively as well.
	Wow!
	That's really something.
	I know one time when I was at a New York TV program during the break, one science writer
	and noticed that I was rather sympathetic toward Betty and Barney Hill.
	And he accosted me in the hall, very tall, imposing man.
	And he said, you're a psychologist.
	And whenever I hear that, I know I'm going to get another lesson.
	You're a psychologist.
	You know that people see what they want to see.
	And I said, yes, I think you're right.
	People do see what they wish to see.
	And he smiled and I said, but I also think that people don't see
	what they don't wish to see.
	And then he glared at me because he realized that I was saying the other side of the coin
	and both sides seemed to exist.
	A lot of people, a lot of researchers now in these fields, tell me that they have turned to abduction research
	as the most meaningful way to proceed with whatever turns out to be the next step,
	or they think it's going to be the most productive of the areas.
	and i wonder what you have looked into with regard to abductions Well, that's what I used to think, too, back in the 60s.
	I was involved, along with Dr. Jim Harder, with the Aerial Phenomena Research Organization.
	We were talking to people in the 60s and 70s.
	And, of course, now Dr. Jim Harder is interested in the statements by various people who mentally contact what seem to be ETs about other civilizations.
	And I'm interested in what people say about science and reincarnation.
	So that it's kind of fascinating.
	Back in the 60s, there were some people who didn't like our work in regard to UFO contactees and experiences.
	And now, now this is considered big stuff.
	And we were too far out in those days.
	Now we're too far because we're listening to what people say about their communications.
	Giles Hamilton works with people who Describe what seemed to be
	communications with ETs so maybe in a few more years
	We'll continue to move from The interest in flying saucers to abductions. Maybe we'll
	maybe there's something beyond abductions. We'll see Do you think the day may come when people who claim to be
	in touch on perhaps even a regular basis?
	Mentally with extraterrestrials or visitors or whoever they are
	Will not automatically be a candidate for the straitjacket I think that it's already that way.
	You know, back in the 40s and the 50s, those of us who claimed UFO sightings, especially if we claimed more than one, where we were psychotic, and then people said, no, they're not psychotic, they're not really crazy.
	In a real deep sense, they're just neurotic.
	Well, then it was changed to, uh, they're kooks.
	So, we, people who claim UFO sightings, uh, we misunderstand.
	We don't know what, uh, the moon and the stars, uh, we don't understand, uh, physical laws and astronomical phenomena.
	And then it was changed to, uh, uh, oh, these people had child abuse, and that's why they think they were abducted as a child.
	I had, uh, In 1950, when I was 50 years old, in 1980, I went through hypnosis with another psychologist, went back to what seemed to be a childhood experience of being on board a craft.
	Well, then, people said, oh, it must be child abuse.
	Well, sure, I was spanked by my dad, so must be that's the reason I had those experiences.
	Then, the most popular hypothesis now is fantasy-prone personality, and so that's the one that has been current for several years.
	Although several studies have now shown that those of us who claim to have UFO sightings, not only are we normal in the sense of psychological inventory results, but also we don't seem to be any more fantasy prone than others.
	So now the latest thing is false memory syndrome.
	That's the popular one now.
	We have memories that we think tell us we had contact with ETs, and these are false memories.
	And so now we can breathe a sigh of relief and keep on sleeping for a while.
	FMS, huh?
unidentified		False mental health.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Right.
		Where I was headed with the initial question was, perhaps the attitude today is a little bit different, but for an awful lot of years, I suspect people who claimed these things were committed to mental institutions.
		And I wonder, how many people in mental institutions Perhaps really do not belong there, because they're having some sort of real experience, or internal experience, which is real, that we just don't understand, and are not, as we understand it, mentally ill.
		That's a good question.
		Of course, you might have to ask a psychiatrist that kind of question.
		Dr. Berthold, Eric Swarge, he's an MD psychiatrist.
		He did a study some years ago When he was still in New Jersey, now he's in Florida, finding that not very many people where he investigated were claiming to have had UFO experiences.
		That didn't seem to be the main reason why they were in wards.
		That was more of a rumor than actually.
		Now, there are some cases, I know some friends who have said that they've worked with people who have been institutionalized because of their claims of UFO I'm not a clinical psychologist.
		I'm not a psychiatrist.
		Perhaps, Doctor, what some people describe as hearing voices and what no doubt we diagnose
		as schizophrenia of some sort or another, what about that?
		Yeah, well, once again, I'm not a clinical psychologist.
		I'm not a psychiatrist.
		I don't work with people in institutions, but my reading would suggest that you're right,
		that there are some people who are inappropriately diagnosed and inappropriately institutionalized
		when their experiences might be better considered as paranormal, as spiritual emergence.
		I think the new DSM, the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual, which is used by the American Psychiatric Association and by the mental health practitioners for helping diagnose people's situations, I think that the spiritual emergence is rumored to be part of the new Manual which will come out Sometime in a few years and if that's so I'll be pleased because there are many people In my opinion you have near-death experiences or out-of-body experiences or spiritually emergent emerging experiences which frighten them and temporarily cause them to worry about their sanity, but actually they may be healthier as a result of the Events that occur to them
		On the other hand, if you began to hear a voice or something began to talk to you, clearly you would question your own sanity, and I would imagine, if unresolved, it could result in real mental harm to you.
		There are studies by psychologists which show that in an average college population, there's a goodly percentage of people who report hearing voices, so that's not that uncommon.
		It's just that that is the perception in TV shows, that hearing voices is what drove somebody to kill somebody, rather than hearing a voice say, why don't you become an NFL star?
		You know, I don't know if you've seen the book Jonathan Livingston Segal, but the author says that he heard a voice and he wrote down the story and he sold it for a million dollars.
		That's the American way.
		It sure is.
		So hearing a voice doesn't necessarily mean that one is crazy and it doesn't necessarily mean the person is going to do something violent.
		The person might do something beneficial to others.
		All right.
		A lot of people believe that these are not visitors from other places, but either visitors from other times, including our future, or other dimensions.
		Yeah, I like the idea.
		Mark Davenport has a good book on the idea of time visitors.
		I think that ETs represent Both extraterrestrial physical locations and ultra-dimensional time dimensions.
		I think that we're encountering both.
		And that may be one reason why it's so puzzling as to what their purposes and what their powers are as well as their origins.
		Well, you are by far not the first person to say that to me.
george knapp ▲ ● ▼		As a matter of fact, I would say a majority of researchers now are beginning to feel that both may be the answer.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Dimensions and, in fact, time and space.
		Yeah, and it may well be that some ETs have the ability to present themselves in such a way that we think of them as invisible.
		We don't think this is so strange about being able to Hide craft from radar observation.
		It may well be that some entities are able to hide themselves from our visual perception.
		How much do you think the government knows?
		I don't know.
		I wish I knew.
		I suspect, on the basis of rumors, that governments all over the planet have been interested.
		A good book, Above Top Secrets, shows some copies of forms from various governments of
		Africa, Australia, Europe, America and so forth that indicates not only are governments
		interested but keep a big communication series going in regard to UFO reports.
		I don't know if they have the final answer but I suspect they have a lot better photographs.
		No, a lot more than we do.
		Well, one great theory, Doctor, was always that, look, our government is at best mostly inept, poor managers, a giant bureaucracy.
		There's no way this kind of secret could have been held for all this time.
		But I think the recent revelations about the injection of plutonium and so forth pretty well crash that theory.
		To me it's obvious they can indeed keep a secret if they want to.
		That depends on which part of the government one is talking about.
		It may well be that the government is, you know, it's not a monolithic structure according to political scientists and there are lots of different factions and lots of different levels and it could well be that a small group has kept most of the information and then Are you pursuing any avenues with the government to try and dislodge some information?
		lies, the windows and so forth that just make it all muddled and so we don't have any idea
		of what is actually known.
		Are you pursuing any avenues with the government to try and dislodge some information?
		Have you filed any Freedom of Information Acts, that sort of thing?
		I haven't done so myself.
		Early on in the 60s, I would write to government officials, I would write to Air Force about such and such a case, including cases that APRO had submitted, and just got back either nonsense or generalities.
		And so I began to realize that it was a waste of time.
		I do write to our senators in Wyoming and representatives About the Roswell case and encouraging them to look into it and so forth.
		So I try to be a good citizen, but I don't really feel that my expertise is the political angle.
		My expertise is helping people come to grips with their own experiences.
		And how much of that sort of work do you still do?
		And how do you find people?
		Do they find you, or how does it happen?
		It works both ways.
		We have a UFO conference.
		In Laramie each year, this next June will be our 15th year.
		The 1991 August issue of the Atlantic Monthly Magazine featured an article by Dr. Jim Gordon, a psychiatrist, a professor at George Washington University in Washington, D.C.
		And each year we have about 150 people who come together to talk about their experiences.
		We'll have experts describe their research, but our bread and butter There's several hours in which we allow interested persons to stand up for five or ten minutes and talk about their experience, their sightings or their encounters, and what influence it's had on them.
		And many people say that this is very therapeutic, that they no longer become afraid that somebody's going to claim that they're silly or crazy or whatever.
		They may not go public, but they become more able to talk to anybody About the experience, if the other person's interested in listening.
		One would think, because of social pressure, that anybody having an experience would think several times before reporting it.
		Now, I realize you have people that are very open with you, but if you look at the general population, and you consider how many of them, percentage-wise, would relate a serious experience, whatever it would be, you would think that number might be fairly small.
		Well, millions of people, according to estimates, have had these experiences.
		And of course, we know that there are some things that people are willing to talk about.
		You know, it used to be bad when I was a kid for people to talk about their illnesses.
		As I got older, it became popular for people to talk about their illnesses.
		As a matter of fact, for many it's a hobby.
		Right.
		And so I've joked about the idea that formerly it used to be people would say, what?
		You mean you think you've had a UFO sighting?
		And now in a few years it'll probably be, what?
		You mean you haven't had a sighting?
		It becomes socially acceptable.
		Yes.
		Yes.
		And do you suppose, again I come back to this, that that is the master plan?
		That the realization will be sort of a very slow, continued evolution with one more piece of the puzzle put in place.
		I think you're right.
		I think that it would be... There's a book coming out by Royal and Priest about preparing for contact, and their view is that along with going out and watching, like Seathetic Groups, the Center for Study of Extraterrestrial Intelligence out of North Carolina, Dr. Stephen Greer, These groups of people will go out and attempt through lights and chanting and consciousness exercises to make contact.
		It may well be that both physical contact and mental contact will become more and more significant over the next few years so that people will prepare both by meditation and by By joining groups and encouraging governmental release of secret documents.
		Would it be your view that it would be the mission of Dr. Carl Sagan to regulate the rate of realization?
		It's a good possibility.
		I met him in 1966 at this NBC TV program, and at times he seems to be very skeptical, but at other times, like with Phil Klass and others, there seems to be The statement made that, well, if there were evidence, you know, meaning if there were physical evidence, of course, social evidence, testimony doesn't count for those people who consider themselves to be, quote, scientists.
		But if there were evidence that we were being visited, wouldn't that be marvelous?
	Well, you see, it seems to me that if it gets to the point where physical evidence were introduced, then Then the people who had said, well, yes, as soon as there's physical evidence, then I'll start to show an interest.
	Then they can get on the bandwagon.
	Well, he's made some statements which really do seem to try to slow it all up, put a cog in the wheel, and almost regulate the speed with which people begin to realize certain things.
	So hold on for just one second, Doctor.
	We're going to ID here.
	All right.
	You're listening to Area 2000.
	From Las Vegas on a Sunday night, I'm Art Bell.
unidentified		From Jackie Gons Plaza downtown, this is KDWN Las Vegas.
		Area 2000 underway.
		My guest, Dr. Leo Sprinkle.
		From Jackie Gons Plaza downtown, this is KDWN Las Vegas.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Area 2000 underway.
		My guest, Dr. Leo Sprinkle, the subject UFOs, reincarnation, ESP, other dimensions.
		Pretty much touching on all of it.
		Dr. Sprinkles, still there?
		Yes, sir.
		Good.
		Well, alright.
		I guess I would ask this.
		How far from, and you almost answered it earlier, but if you had to make your best guess, when will we know, or realize, or the collective knowledge add up to, oh yes?
		I would say that the turn of the century is a good time to speculate about that.
		I did a study a few years ago in 1986 with a group of people asking them some questions about future, future forecasting, whether Ronald Reagan would be re-elected as president.
		The majority of people said yes.
		Whether there'd be an atomic war before the year 2000, the majority of people said no.
		And then the left-brain people versus the right-brain people had a different response to the question about formal contact.
		Left-brain people evenly chose several targets, whereas the right-brain types selected the years, or the target that would correspond to the years between 1995 and 2000 for possible formal contact with ETs.
		And I, just my own personal feeling is that 97 sounds like a good time to me.
		Now, some people think that there's going to be an announcement this year But then I've heard that, you know, in the 70s and the 80s and the 90s.
		So I really don't know.
		But it seems to me that we're getting closer and closer to the number of people in the general public who accept the idea of E.T.
		presence.
		The government officials and conventional scientists don't accept that.
		But I think within the next few years, some rumors suggest that just like the Clinton administration has been forthcoming in terms of Information about radiation tests.
		It makes one wonder if the push is now to release government secrecy on all matters, not just UFOs or radiation, but all kinds of secrecy that we thought was so important during the Cold War and World War II.
		Maybe now we're big enough to, as a society, that we can handle how the JFK And the other murders were committed, whether there was conspiracy.
		So maybe we're growing up enough that we can allow ourselves to take whatever medicine we need to take.
		Well, while it would be true that I think in America, because of programs like this and movies and the media and all of it, we're probably closer to being able to accept it without great panic.
		There would be an awful lot of the rest of the world that would not be so ready, wouldn't you think?
		Well, I used to think that way, until I was over in Germany, in world, at the Korean War, and talking to people in Sweden, I've gone to Brazil, Canada, and so on.
		I'm inclined to think that here in the U.S., we're more afraid of ETs than down in Brazil, for example, or Africa, others.
		There's a story that goes around in different forms, whether it's in Mexico or in Korea, about The farmer who says, oh yeah, one day we're ruled by the Koreans, another time we're ruled by the Japanese.
		Or in Mexico, it's the U.S.
		and the Mexicans back and forth across the border.
		Most people who are concerned about day-to-day matters, I don't think that they're as frightened by who's in charge.
		I think that the U.S., we like to think of ourselves as number one in technology, number one in intelligence and culture.
		And I suspect that most primitive people already recognize the coming and goings of the gods.
		Of the gods?
		Oh yes, you know, the gods have been around for thousands and thousands of years, and so if ETs come down in the Brazilian rainforest, or down in the What would be your view with respect to the theory that these beings are our creator?
		It's a good possibility.
		This is what some people have claimed regarding the biblical stories of Adam and Eve.
		And the L.O.M., the Sitchin's books are excellent in this regard.
		It may well be that the Old Testament, New Testament stories are not only stories of humans, but also of angels, messengers of the gods, but also the pillars of fire, the clouds from heaven.
		It may well be that it goes back thousands of years, and we are the missing link between Ape and Starman.
		Doctor, how important is the near-death experience and research in that area?
		Your view?
		I think it's very important.
		I haven't done a great deal myself, but I've talked with the groups of people who've had near-death experiences, and of course, Helen Wambach, when she came to our UFO conference one year, she'd had a near-death experience after a triple bypass heart operation, and she said, First thing I thought of when I came out of this tunnel and talking with a father figure who said, no, your work isn't done.
		You've been working on past life stuff.
		Now you've got to work on future life.
		She said, the first thing I thought of is I got to talk with Leo and his UFO contactees about future impressions.
		And her companion said, no, the first thing she asked for was another cigarette.
		It seems as if the near-death experience, like the UFO experience, is very transforming.
		For many people, what happens is they no longer fear death.
		They feel as if the soul is what's important.
		We are souls and bodies, not bodies who just happen to have souls.
		Many people feel as if their life has new meaning, and that they take a new tack, a new philosophy in regard to themselves and relationships.
		Most people who come back say that love for self, love for others, love of God, creation, these are what's important, not material possessions.
		That would imply that there is not predestination, in other words, and I guess that would be your view, that we can modify our lives as we will, or do you think it is all preordained?
		I think it's both.
		One poet said it very nicely, that we can't choose the tide on which we ride, but we can choose the wave.
		And I think that we have some influence, some control.
		I tend to share the view of many mentors and teachers who say that Rather than thinking each person on his or her own merit graduates, maybe we all have to graduate.
		And if that's true, ouch!
		We have a long way to go to become enlightened.
		But it may well be that there are groups of people who come and go, families, nations, and each individual life then would be important, just like Yes.
	One student in class is important, but not so overwhelmingly important.
	So I take the point of view that there are some influences that are greater than individual lives, but I also think that each individual soul has some choice.
	How far back have you ever taken anybody?
	Into a single prior life?
	Multiple prior lives?
	How far back have you ever gone with somebody?
	Well, it depends upon one's view of time.
	For example, one psychologist I worked with who accepted reincarnation and was interested in... He and his wife attended our workshop and went back to what seemed to be past lives in which they were together.
	In an individual session with him, he went back to what seemed to be life as a snake.
	So he felt he had had...
	I've worked with people who felt that they were animals, you know, mammals other than humans.
	I've worked with people who felt like they went back to another planet and were robotic.
	People who've gone forward in time.
	Wombat workshops used to have a choice of like a thousand BC or two thousand BC.
	Some people feel like they've gone back to Atlantis.
	In fact, one young man wept because he felt as if he had been an important scientist who was more interested in power than he was in compassion and helped destroy Atlantis.
	He feels like he's here as a psychologist this lifetime to help people become aware.
	So that was thousands and thousands of years ago.
	So I don't know what it means in terms of linear time and I can't claim that I know that these people have experienced something that's true, but what I can
	claim is that they're very sincere about their reactions.
	Their emotional reactions of fear or hate or puzzlement, very real to them.
	And the impressions, the images have had an important influence on their lives.
	I've always sort of felt, what good reincarnation if there is no conscious memory of any prior life or experience or
	anything that would add up to anything?
	And I guess the answer is that it can be used and you know how to do it.
	Well, I think we all do in the sense of lessons.
	When I was a little kid, I can recall thinking, oh, I know it's much better not to, you know, I hit a bird with a stone and I was pleased with my accuracy, but then I saw the bird dying and I was saddened by it.
	And I thought, why do I have that feeling?
	Because I was taught to, you know, get a gun and shoot animals.
	This is manly.
	Uh, in other things, I think that there are lessons that become important to us.
	We may not know where they come from, but it's the same thing as looking back on lessons we've had in the fifth grade and seventh grade.
	We may not remember our transcripts from those times, but we still remember things about lessons that we've learned.
	It may well be that It's not so important to remember specific details as it is to remember the moral attitudes that we learn.
	Yes, the example you gave was a good one.
	When I finally got to be 13, my dad gave me a .22 rifle.
	One of the first things I did in the first few days was I shot a squirrel.
	I, too, watched that squirrel die, and I have never, ever shot another animal, nor will I.
	Because you realize the pain and suffering, and so that's a good example of a lesson that you didn't have to repeat over and over.
	Other times, we're like the guy who went to Italy and sang, and everybody said, encore, encore.
	He sang again, encore, encore.
	Finally, he said, I'm tired, I can't go on.
	And the guy in the balcony said, you've got to keep it up until you get it right.
	Well, maybe that's the way it is with some of our lessons.
	In lifetimes, we repeat until we get it right.
	Yes, I wonder if in my next life I will have to again shoot a squirrel, or its equivalent.
	But you won't have to.
	Would it be your view that those sorts of lessons are carried forth?
	Yes, one client of mine said it very nicely.
	He was a master's student in biology and geology, and he said that vows are for humans like instincts are for animals.
	I said, oh, that's very good.
	Instincts for animals can help them or they can hurt them in the same way vows.
	You know, if someone says, I'm never going to take another bite of lasagna ever, ever, ever.
	Well, if you wind up in a desert island, the only food left is lasagna.
	It might change your mind.
	Instincts.
	I'd like to pounce on that one.
	It's a good one.
	Would you say that instincts are, in fact, not something carried deep in a genetic makeup someplace, but instincts are, in fact, in animals, evidence of some sort of reincarnation?
	Or a morphogenic field like Rupert Sheldrake has hypothesized.
	It seems as if the evidence is very impressive to biologists that information in the cell doesn't always reside in the cell.
	It seems to come from outside.
	And so genetics may be important in terms of some of the conditions under which critters develop, but It may be that instincts go beyond the biological conditions in the same way our moralities may go beyond what we are taught as we're growing up because I've talked to so many people who were taught to fear themselves, hate themselves, hate others, and yet still retained a sense of compassion and
	I wondered, where did I get that?
	Or in the case of the human, the fear of high places, or the fear of drowning, or the fear of whatever it is that was... There's snakes, so where did we get that?
	Because obviously, some people have never come in contact with a snake, and yet they can still be that same attitude.
	Well, if we look back in the lifetime of primitive people, we probably died quite often as a result of snake bites, so it may be that these are Subcultural or collective unconscious things as Jung would posit or it may well be that this is a result of past life experiences.
	All right, doctor.
	I would like to open some phone lines and expose you to the American public.
	How about that?
	You can handle that?
	Alright, let's give out the numbers then.
	Here they are.
	In the metropolitan area of Las Vegas, it is 383-8255, 8255.
	383 8255 8255 toll-free outside the state you're welcome at 1-800-338-8255
	we have the wildcard lines at area code 702 385 7214 And finally, if you have never called this program, you're welcome in as a first-time caller at area code 702-385-7213.
	There, the mechanics are done.
	Let's do it.
	Wildcard line 3, you're on the air.
	Good evening with Dr. Leo Sprinko.
unidentified		Yes, good evening, Dr. Sprinko.
		This question is about abductions.
		As opposed to UFO sightings, which may be accompanied by photo evidence or multiple witnesses, is there any reason to take seriously, or at face value, the thousands of so-called abduction reports?
		Is there any reason to believe that ET entities rather than psychological aberrations are involved?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Thank you for the question.
		I think so, because there are so many people who report not only multiple abductions, but also there are multiple witnesses.
		Along with the internal attitudes, there can be marks on the body, there can be missing time.
		There are a variety of things that would be considered circumstantial evidence by the skeptic, but nevertheless, which would fit in with the overall pattern.
		And also, The studies of Dr. Eddie Bullard and others show that the pattern is not something that is easily hoaxed or fantasized about because there is a definite pattern to what people report happens to them.
		So, regardless of whether one argues that this is a paranormal event by unseen forces as opposed to extraterrestrial entities, One still would have to account for a wide variety of evidence, regardless of what the source of the experience might be.
		All right.
		Doctor, good evening.
		On the first time caller line, you're on the air with Dr. Sprinkle.
		Good evening.
unidentified		Hello.
unidentified		Hello.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Where are you calling from?
unidentified		I'm calling from Las Vegas, Nevada.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Go ahead, sir.
unidentified		Yeah, so I was wondering on the UFOs, that you see those often out here in Nevada?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You're asking who?
		I see them often out there.
		Not out there very often, but a lot of people who are out there.
		Yes, every place on the planet has had many UFO sightings reported by various people.
		North Pole, South Pole, every major continent.
		There are a lot of reports in the Southwest USA, whether that's because there's more activity out there, whether it's because the sighting conditions are better.
		That's hard to know, but yes, there are many people in Nevada who report UFO sightings.
unidentified		I see.
unidentified		I was wondering, because me and my mother watch, listen to your show very often, and we seem to see every now and then a weird object in the sky above, and it does come to display a spacecraft of some kind, but we can't really see if it's a UFO or one of our ships sometimes.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
		Thank you, Colin.
		It is true, Doctor.
		Here in the desert, we have a very, very high count of sightings.
		I mean, we just have all kinds of sightings.
		Right.
		And some of it, of course, may be U.S.
		government.
		Who knows?
		But there are a disproportionate number of sightings.
		Wild Card Line 3, good evening.
		You're on the air with Dr. Sprinkle.
		Where are you calling from?
unidentified		Good evening.
unidentified		This is Fitz from Los Angeles.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Los Angeles.
unidentified		Dr. Sprinkle, whatever happened to Pat McQuire?
		And his conduct, one of your planned subjects in the late 70s.
		What happened to him?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, Pat went through a rough time.
		Pat McGuire used to have a ranch north of Laramie.
		He built a well on it to irrigate his crops of grain.
		And a lot of people would come out to the ranch to have sightings and encounters.
		Ran for governor at one point, lost easily to the other candidate, but then after that, he felt like he was having a rough time, whether it was government interference, or E.T.
		interference, or mismanagement, according to some people.
		Hard to know why, but anyway, he had trouble maintaining the ranch.
		He and his wife, Wanda, divorced.
		Went from job to job right now.
		As far as I know, he's doing common labor kinds of jobs.
		The ranch was turned over to a holding company and then later given to the University of Wyoming as an experimental farm.
		So the well is still out there that pumps thousands of gallons of water a minute.
		And it's still a miracle as far as some people are concerned.
		Pat himself has had a rough go of it the last few years.
unidentified		Well, the audience is not aware that the ETs told him to dig a well because there was no water underneath and everybody was laughing at him.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Right.
unidentified		Okay, thank you so much.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, Fritz.
		Thank you very much for the call.
		Line 2, good evening.
		You're on the air with Dr. Sprinkle.
unidentified		Hello, Doctor.
unidentified		Hello, Art.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Hi.
unidentified		I'm a first-time caller.
		I called the wrong number, but I had two points I'd like to make regarding Roswell.
		I find it kind of hard to believe that a spacecraft could fly through space and time and then crash in the desert.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Right.
		Well, it's worth noting, Caller, that that incident occurred many, many years ago.
		So, in other words, there has not exactly been a rash of crashes.
unidentified		Okay.
		It just seemed a little strange.
		And I did have another point on the animals.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
unidentified		Did you shot an animal the first time you felt sick?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
unidentified		I had the same thing happen to me when I first started hunting.
		I shot my first deer.
		It made me sick, but I thought it would pass.
		And I shot another one the next year, and I've never hunted since.
		I just don't like the thought of killing an animal.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I understand.
		Thank you.
		And I guess, Doctor, that if there is reincarnation, Uh, that all of us would, as a result of its being a fact, have a particular reverence for life.
		Wouldn't that be the more natural thing?
		Uh, I think in general it would be true.
		I think there might be some people who die as a result of, uh, violence who might come into the next lifetime angry and, uh, ready to commit violence.
		So there could be a lot of different reactions.
		Well, I know some of those people.
		Yes.
		Yes.
		Good evening.
		On the first time caller line, you're on the air with Dr. Sprinkle.
unidentified		Yeah, Dr. Sprinkle, you've mentioned a lot of information, and you've mentioned Royal Priests.
		They've written a couple books, and much of their information is channeled information.
		What's your opinion about channeled information?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, that's a good question.
		Channeling and channeled information.
		I don't know who the caller is, but his voice is very much like Dr. Jim Deardorff.
		Jim, I'm sorry, I released him.
		Okay.
		I think that channel information is like any other information.
		It's appropriate to listen, to look, to compare it with other kinds of information.
		Just like one historian is useful, two historians, three more.
		The more witnesses, the better.
		The more sources of evidence, physical evidence, biological evidence, psychosocial evidence, and spiritual evidence.
		If I'm answering the caller's question appropriately, I think that all sources of information ought to be considered, none rejected just because of the source, but not necessarily accepted because of the source either.
		All right, very good.
		Line three, good evening.
		You're on the air with Dr. Sprinkle.
		Good evening, Art.
		Good evening, Dr. Sprinkle.
		Good evening.
		Just as a side note, Pat McGuire was a professional elk hunter many years ago.
		I do have a question, Dr. Frankel.
		I met you at the University in July of 1980.
		I was one of the three young men that came out to Pat's Ranch and camped there for a couple of weeks.
		Oh, yeah.
		But I have a question.
		I just finished reading Revelations by Jacques Vallée, and he notes in there that while he was doing an investigation in France, a person he was working with confronted a French military person And that French military person just basically flat out told him, you know, we created this.
		It's a diversion.
		And we're doing studies on social engineering.
		I was wondering if I could get an opinion on that.
		All right.
		Thank you, caller.
		Listen on the air.
		Thank you.
		I have an opinion.
		I don't know whether it's the correct opinion or not.
		It may well be that the French and the U.S.
		and Belgium and other governments are doing this.
		However, it's puzzling to me when I talk with a person like Ida Kannenberg.
		She's written a book, UFOs and the Psychic Factor, another book, The Alien Book of Truth.
		She had her UFO experience in 1940, and this is somewhat before it was popular to talk about flying saucers.
		So I find people who claim that the German rockets and the other World War II events
		are what caused people to socially and culturally become influenced into thinking that flying
		saucers and UFOs are extraterrestrial. I just have my doubts about it because according
		to my memory of a 1940 experience when I was 10 years old, that happened before I really
		felt that I was influenced by World War II stories of German rockets and so forth.
		So, maybe the Frenchman knows what he's saying, but on the other hand, I suspect that UFOs have been around longer than World War II.
		All right, Doctor.
		Time is short.
		On our first time caller line, you're on the air with Dr. Sprinkle.
		Good evening.
		Where are you calling from, please?
unidentified		Las Vegas.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Las Vegas.
		Okay, go ahead.
		Go ahead, ma'am.
unidentified		Yes.
		I have two questions.
		Um, I have what I just always called women's intuition, like knowing not to be somewhere.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Alright, would you turn your radio off, please?
unidentified		Sure.
		Not to go somewhere, or not to do something, and sure enough, if I follow that intuition, something happens that makes it, yes, it was the correct thing to do.
		And also, I have very strong feelings about being involved somehow with the Holocaust.
		I don't know why, and sometimes I think to myself that it's just that I think it's such a dreadful thing that happened, but then other times I have a real strong feeling that I was involved somehow.
		Now, I'm in my 40s, so it wouldn't seem likely, but can you give me any insight on those two questions?
		Thank you very much.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
		Thank you, ma'am.
		There's lots of information on premonitions, and many people describe their experiences and how helpful they've been to
		follow those premonitions.
		Other people have not followed the premonitions and have been bothered or wish they had.
		So I can appreciate why you'd say that.
		Doctor, we're not going to have time to answer her question in depth.
		We're out of time.
		You have been a pleasure to interview.
		Well, thank you.
		It's been a pleasure to talk with you.
		And I would like to do it again sometime.
		Thank you very much.
		Thank you, Doctor.
		Take care.
		That's Dr. Leo Sprinkle.
		I'm sorry, we're out of time.
		Just enough time to announce, as you know, the Bigelow Foundation has been very generous in the funding of this program.
		They're having difficulty finding guests of a continuing caliber.
		And so they have announced the last program is going to be February 6th.
		We are going to syndicate a new program and going to broaden it out a bit and certainly continue it.
		It's going to be called Dreamland.
		Repeating, it's going to be called Dreamland.
		And if you would like to hear it, then you should contact the station that you wish to carry that program.
		Contact the programming department or management of the station that you wish to carry it.
		Because it will be in syndication, that means that it, for example, may or may not even be on in Las Vegas.
		I don't know.
		It's going to depend on all of you.
		That's my suggestion.
		Contact the radio station that you would like to hear it on and ask them to carry a new program coming up between 7 p.m.
		and 10 p.m.
		Sunday nights called Dreamland.
		For the Bigelow Foundation, good night.
		The preceding program was made possible by a grant from the Bigelow Foundation.
		This has been Area 2000, a program that introduces our listeners to the scientific approach for discussion of two particular subjects, UFOs and near-death and after-death experiences.
		To contact the Bigelow Foundation, please call during the week between 9 a.m.
		and 5 p.m.
		Area code 702-456-1606.
		Ask for Angela Thompson.
		That's area code 702-456-1606.
		And be with us next Sunday evening at 8 for another edition of Area 2000.

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