Nov. 28, 1993 - Art Bell
01:47:30
Participants
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| Welcome to Area 2000. | ||
| This program introduces our listeners to the scientific approach to discussion of two particular subjects UFOs and near-death and after-death experiences. | ||
| To contact the Bigelow Foundation during the work week call Angela Thompson between 9 a.m. | ||
| and 5 p.m. | ||
| at area code 702 4-5-6-1-6-0-6. | ||
| 4-5-6-1-6-0-6. | ||
| That's Angela Thompson at Area Coast 7-0-3-4-5-6-1-4-0-6-7-0-5-4-2-5-6-7-0-5. | ||
| Good evening, everybody. | ||
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Welcome to another edition of Area 2000 from Las Vegas to the West on KDWN 7-20, The Talk of the West. | |
| I'm Art Bell. | ||
| And it's going to be quite a program this evening. | ||
| We've got, as always, George Knapp and with glimpses into other realities, Linda Howe in Philadelphia. | ||
| And then all the way from New Jersey, I think you're going to very much enjoy Richard C. Hoagland. | ||
| And so there's a lot to get to. | ||
| Let us begin getting to it right away. | ||
| Um, George, good evening to you. | ||
| Great to have you back again. | ||
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We've got a very good deal of information about the boats in the audience who are in Las Vegas. | |
| They have a very specific UFO topic. | ||
| They have a unique opportunity to put their fills this week. | ||
| About 65 minutes ago, the 1993 International UFO Congress kicked off at the Show Boat Hotel here in Las Vegas. | ||
| Former Air Force colonel Wendell Stephens, who is a true crazy photographer, did a fairly incredible collection of UFO photos, and we always knew it was just a skeleton. | ||
| Such photos are always fuzzy, and crisp, and deep, and very controversial. | ||
| And most of the photos, I don't know, are referenced in the exact same way all over the country, all over the world, that are clear and crisp, daylight type shots, It's hard to dismiss whether or not all of them can withstand scientific analysis. | ||
| It's something I can't answer. | ||
| Some could be hoaxes, I suppose, but when you see this entire package, it's very impressive. | ||
| This conference will last a full week. | ||
| There are several extremely interesting speakers on the line. | ||
| Dr. John Mack of Harvard Medical School, who was able to speak about the induction phenomenon, | ||
| as is Dr. David Jacobs of Temple University. | ||
| Ted Oliphant, the Fife, Alabama, police officer, is slated to talk about his two-year investigation | ||
| of cattle mutilation in North Alabama, activity which has repeatedly been correlated to UFO sightings | ||
| there and elsewhere. | ||
| The founder of the first UFO research organization in China is on the schedule, | ||
| along with a man named George Wingfield, one of the world's best-known crop formation researchers. | ||
| Two days of the program are dedicated to abduction research, and for what it's worth, there's also a full day of | ||
| presentations related to channeled information. | ||
| This is a very controversial area, even within ufology, but it's probably good to keep an open mind, even about topics which might seem to be ridiculous. | ||
| I mean, science fiction today has become science. | ||
| Anyway, it's a heck of a lineup, and folks who are interested might want to head down to the showboat sometime this week. | ||
| We told you last week about multiple witness UFO sightings in the northwest part of the Las Vegas Valley. | ||
| Now we're getting reports from the Henderson area about large, luminous, triangular craft that reportedly perform these flip-flops and other gymnastic-type maneuvers on a semi-regular basis. | ||
| And if anyone is listening in the Henderson area, we'd like them to call us and let us know what you're seeing out there. | ||
| Mexico continues as a UFO hotspot. | ||
| Several dozen impressive videotapes of unidentified objects have been captured in the last six months. | ||
| The activity shows no signs of abating. | ||
| A Mexican organization which calls itself the Vigilantes has been taking out the sky on a round-the-clock basis in the Mexican state of Morelos, as well as in the mountainous region called Tepo Teco, about 300 miles outside of Mexico City. | ||
| Quite a bit of activity reported and recorded. | ||
| Anyone interested in UFOs who has an original idea about the nature of this phenomenon might be in line to win $1,000. | ||
| A man named Dr. Alexander Imich has offered a prize of $1,000 for the best original paper contributing to the understanding of the UFO enigma. | ||
| Submissions can be critical, empirical, Philosophical, speculative, in any of the many disciplines covered by ufology. | ||
| The deadline is June 30th, 1994, and Angela Thompson of the Bigelow Foundation has further details if anyone's interested in pursuing this prize. | ||
| One note for Las Vegas residents, the local MUFON chapter, that's Mutual UFO Network, will meet December 14th at the Las Vegas Library across from Cashman Field. | ||
| MUFON, as you know, is a pretty solid organization. | ||
| It's surprising that It doesn't have more support here in Nevada, considering the high level of interest there is in UFOs. | ||
| Such organizations, of course, are what you make of them, and I'd recommend anyone who wants to get to the bottom of the mystery might want to consider getting involved with MUFON. | ||
| Finally, don't forget the lunar eclipse tonight, supposed to peak around 10 o'clock, I think, for West Coast viewers, right after this program, so our listeners should probably listen to the show, then bundle up and go outside, and I really look forward to hearing Richard Hoagland Regarding the Mars Observer and all the stuff we've been talking about the last couple of weeks. | ||
| George, I am curious. | ||
| You kind of hit on something that I'm very curious about, and that is the level of UFO interest here in Nevada versus elsewhere, when we are virtually the center of almost all the activity. | ||
| Well, we're a center of a lot of the activity. | ||
| I think there's activity all over the country, but I think it has a lot to do with your program and some of the TV programs that I've been involved with here. | ||
| I don't think there's a hotter area anywhere. | ||
| In terms of public interest in the topic. | ||
| I mean, I can't go anywhere without somebody raving, raving the subject. | ||
| But when it comes to interest in Lufthansa, or some of the other U.S. | ||
| organizations, you get to get very limited. | ||
| Well, Willie, wonderful to have you. | ||
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George, I appreciate the update, and I hope somebody out there wins the topic. | |
| Thank you. | ||
| That's George Nairn. | ||
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I don't know. | |
| I haven't heard of it. | ||
| And he kind of keeps us up-to-date on the very latest of what's going on. | ||
| All right. | ||
| Quick switch of gears all the way to Philadelphia, Pennsylvania. | ||
| Another glimpse into another reality. | ||
| This is Linda Howe. | ||
| Linda, good evening. | ||
| Welcome to the program. | ||
| Hi, Alex. | ||
| Hi. | ||
| So, when it comes to discussions about other realities, Ralph Fowler's stuff is more important. | ||
| Whether we're discussing the fraud circle mystery, the human abductions in Rome, Unusual surface features on Mars, as Richard Hogan will discuss tonight, the worldwide animal mutilation, uh, or other mysteries. | ||
| One of the constant themes in the investigations is an apparent policy of scouting for misinformation by the government concerning this. | ||
| I interviewed a beef cattle rancher who talked to me about a recent mutilation on | ||
| Sands Ranch and his thoughts about why there might be a policy of sire. | ||
| Art Zier lives in a grain farming and cattle raising region at the eastern end of South Dakota | ||
| in a small town called De Smet. In October he found three of his cattle dead and mutilated. | ||
| The first two were cows and the third was a star-laid bull about three years old that weighed at least 1,800 pounds. | ||
| Sire E. De Boer was alive and well two days before he found the animal on October 24th | ||
| inside a fenced pasture with both of the gays padlocked. | ||
| As Mr. Geyer approached the dead bull, he could see a complete testicle lying on the ground near the body, cut right out of the scrotum's back. | ||
| The other testicle was gone too, but was never found. | ||
| There was no blood in any of these tests. | ||
| The penis had been removed, part of the teeth around it had been cut sharply straight across, The wetland was poured out and the ground level was full. | ||
| At the hub, a camera was shot. | ||
| Now, please stay cut now and listen to the cast go. | ||
| Right now, we're going to hear what the president, Mr. Bernhardt, said. | ||
| So, it looks like Pee-Pee's here tonight on the show. | ||
| It looks good, okay, but has been photographed and described on other mutilated animals for the past 30 years. | ||
| There were no tracks around the bull, no signs of struggle, and predators would never go to the body of the bull. | ||
| Mr. Dyer also found odd strips of hair missing and a small hole like a biopsy drug. | ||
| He told me recently in a conversation that until he saw these animals, he had not accepted that there was any reality to the animals that he had seen before. | ||
| But now, it came to town that I wanted to have some excerpt from that conversation, which he also discussed with what appears to be a policy of violence. | ||
| And we will begin Yeah, on that bull we found there were two marks on his neck. | ||
| we remember the biopsy was on this 1800 pound bull. | ||
| Yeah, on that bull we found, uh, there were two marks on his neck. | ||
| About six inches long and about four inches, four or five inches apart. | ||
| And, uh, the one of them, the hill was just rubbed completely or gone completely. | ||
| On the second one, it was the hair was, some of it was gone, but not like the first mark. | ||
| Like he'd been, his neck had been clamped in somewhere, you know. | ||
| And then down further, then there seemed, appeared to be like a hole or A break in the skin that went in. | ||
| We didn't think it was a bullet hole because it would have been, you know, from underneath. | ||
| There have been what people refer to as biopsy plugs removed from animals over the past 30 years. | ||
| They've been about a quarter of an inch wide and about three quarters to an inch deep. | ||
| Is that similar to what this one? | ||
| This one looked like it was small. | ||
| Maybe a little bit bigger than a lead pencil. | ||
| You know, maybe it's not a quarter inch, but maybe a three-eighths-inch Hora. | ||
| And it really felt like it went in maybe an inch or two. | ||
| There sure wasn't anything worth anything come out on the other side or out, you know, anywhere. | ||
| Like a bullet would have probably done. | ||
| So it is similar to these books have been referred to as biopsy books. | ||
| How much did that blow away? | ||
| Well, I was a three-year-old Charlie Bull and I estimated the weight probably around 1,800 pounds. | ||
| Now, could you or any human easily walk up to, let's say, not you because you know the bull, but could a stranger walk up to an 1,800 pound bull and easily stop it in its tracks? | ||
| They might be able to walk up to them, but you know, in the fall of the year, the birds a lot of times will kind of separate off from the females in the town. | ||
| And they're more docile, you know, in the fall of the year. | ||
| And somebody could probably have walked up, you know, within 10, 15 feet of the bird that was laying down. | ||
| Well, uh, they just took off tranquilizing it, or, or, uh, shooting it, or, you know, some things they did. | ||
| They don't have time for any of this. | ||
| You know, they're so lazy. | ||
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I mean, it's an individual thing. | |
| I don't know what they can do. | ||
| Right. | ||
| Right. | ||
| It takes a lot of people to... Yeah. | ||
| Well, and there was no sign of trouble whatsoever in that passage. | ||
| No. | ||
| Nothing. | ||
| Uh, this is typical of the animal mutilations, and this is why law enforcement long ago started looking up into the sky for an answer as to what was happening to these animals. | ||
| And that's why I asked those earlier questions about whether there were any helicopter activity, or lighting, or anything in the sky that wasn't recorded. | ||
| Well, no, that wasn't it. | ||
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So, did you see the girl a day or so before you found out she had a mutilated? | |
| Well, I'd seen her about two days before, but, uh, I don't know, perhaps two girls a night, and then a couple of bucks, or what not, and, uh, I don't know. | ||
| Well, I think it's fun, uh, for you to try and get to know her. | ||
| I mean, that's fine, but you've got to try to get to know her better. | ||
| Uh, I don't know if I want to, but if I have my chance to, uh, About two days previous or three days before I bought them. | ||
| And there were no signs of being sick or anything like that. | ||
| And this was clearly highly unusual cuts all over the ground. | ||
| And if you as a rancher If you knew that there was some kind of other intelligence from somewhere else in the universe involved with these animal mutilations, what would your reaction be? | ||
| I guess I wouldn't... I'm kind of practical and I don't know whether I would believe it unless I'd seen it, but I didn't believe there was any cattle mutilations until I'd seen that bull either. | ||
| So I wouldn't necessarily disbelieve anything. | ||
| I wouldn't be... It is kind of frightening, but I guess I wouldn't be hysterical or anything if I didn't know or didn't see something that was... | ||
| If that were true, and there does seem to be some evidence from eyewitnesses who have seen animals with what they call non-human creatures that were either later found mutilated or disappeared, what would you think about the government's policy of silence? | ||
| Well, I don't know. | ||
| It would just, I guess, have to indicate to me that they And either they are trying to keep it a secret to keep Max's story up and that people are, or maybe if they tried to make contact with him or anything like that, why they haven't been able to do it and so they're just kept trying to keep it silent. | ||
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Do you think that's fair to let, Alex? | |
| But there's other life form that might threaten us, or, you know, that might prevent us, or it's either that, and if it's that, the people are going to wake them up. | ||
| And I would like to ask this comment. | ||
| Either way, Maxwell or others should be in on contact with another intelligence on this planet, and that is coming from a rancher who has been in the He's been inside of South Dakota, a remote area, for several decades, and has seen a lot of animals dead from disease and predator, but he has never seen anything like what happened to these three crows in October. | ||
| You know, particularly impressive, Linda, was the lion. | ||
| You know, I would not have believed it, ever, had I not seen it myself. | ||
| That's right. | ||
| That's right. | ||
| Incredible. | ||
| And in this particular case, we did have the sheriff come, The sheriff said at the site, yeah, there's no question. | ||
| Something that they knew how to do surgery on this animal was involved. | ||
| And then the sheriff turned the case over to the state veterinarian. | ||
| And there was apparently no necropsy done and no physical investigation. | ||
| There were some photographs And there was a statement made by the Assistant State Veterinarian to the Rapid City Journal newspaper and to another local newspaper disregarding, actually, any necropsy or pathology examination, which they did not do, and they simply dismissed it as predator. | ||
| And this is something that is a puzzle also. | ||
| We are not examining these animals scientifically. | ||
| And if we did, perhaps we'd all learn a great deal more about this strange phenomenon. | ||
| I wonder, Linda, if perhaps the Foundation, as you mentioned, they're not examining these animals. | ||
| I wonder if it would be in the interest of the Foundation, probably something you can't answer, to see to it that an examination of that sort is done. | ||
| We need some answers. | ||
| Yes, and Dr. Al Tuller, John Al Tuller in Denver, who I think is going to be on the area of comparison in a few weeks, He's been working with me since 1989. | ||
| And we have tried to let sheriffs and deputies and the general ranching population know that we will do these examinations. | ||
| We have not charged anyone anything for them, but we need to be contacted. | ||
| So if anybody does have one of these strange animal deaths, Alright, and toward that end, I guess you'd better give them a way to do that. | ||
| Alright. | ||
| I really do look forward to letters from the listeners during the year 2000. | ||
| I've been getting some very interesting facts. | ||
| And you can reach me, Linda, at Post Office Box 538. | ||
| In Huntingdon Valley, Pennsylvania, spelled H-U-N-C-I-N-G-C-I-N-D-O-G-O-N, Huntingdon Valley, Pennsylvania, and the zip code is 1-9-0-0-6. | ||
| All right, wonderful. | ||
| Linda, as always, it's been fascinating, and I'll look forward to hearing from you next week. | ||
| Great, Alex, and thanks. | ||
| Thank you. | ||
| That's Linda Howell from Philadelphia, Pennsylvania. | ||
| And there you've got it. | ||
| It's still going on. | ||
| Isn't that fascinating? | ||
| Absolutely fascinating. | ||
| And I think she's going down the right road. | ||
| I think examinations and some sort of understanding of what this is all about. | ||
| It's high time. | ||
| All right. | ||
| Once again, we switch gears. | ||
| And we've got a fascinating guest this evening. | ||
| Richard C. Hoagland. | ||
| Richard C. Hoagland is a former science consultant to Walter Cronkite of NBC News. | ||
| Cable Network, NASA, and author of The Monuments of Mars, which is fabulously popular. | ||
| At NASA's request, he has now repeatedly presented his continuing Mars findings regarding the Cydonia region of Mars to thousands of NASA engineers and scientists at the Goddard Space Flight Center and Lewis Research Center. | ||
| Hoagland was also a featured speaker on his Team Cydonia investigation At the 1990 Aerospace Education Services Project. | ||
| That's a conference at the Lewis Research Center designed to train and brief specialists on current NASA projects. | ||
| In February 1992, he presented his team's results regarding Cydonia in an invited address to delegates and staff at the United Nations. | ||
| Let's take care of that noise. | ||
| There we go. | ||
| Richard C. Hoagland should be a fascinating guest. | ||
| As you know, the Mars Observer, as best we know, or at least with information given to the public, is still lost in space. | ||
| So, all the way now to New Jersey and Richard C. Hoagland. | ||
| Good evening, Richard. | ||
| Good evening, Alex. | ||
| Welcome to the program. | ||
| Good to have you. | ||
| It's nice to be there. | ||
| Pardon my voice. | ||
| I seem to have picked up a cold somewhere along the line. | ||
| I'm sorry to hear that. | ||
| I'll stay away from the phone. | ||
| Richard, I don't think we've ever connected before. | ||
| I've been doing programs like this for many years, though not this specific one, and I've | ||
| heard a lot about you. | ||
| You've been pretty high profile. | ||
| I guess the place to start with you is Mars, and in the little topic of discussion thing | ||
| they sent to me, you were already, prior to launch, and I guess this was written prior | ||
| to the launch of the Mars Observer, you were already feeling that we weren't necessarily | ||
| going to get all of the yield of information we were supposed to. | ||
| in this book club. | ||
| Before it ever got started. | ||
| Is that accurate? | ||
| That is accurate. | ||
| And there really wasn't anything to do with it, because NASA, for the first time in half a year, did any planetary mission it had ever sent anywhere, was planning not to show us the data, the images, That it was going to get from Mars Observer Live. | ||
| Now there has been some confusion about what we mean by live. | ||
| These spacecraft are robots. | ||
| They're sent out across the solar system. | ||
| The first mission NASA ever sent anywhere that was successful was the Ranger 7 mission that crash landed on the moon at about 9.15 on the morning of July 28, 1964. | ||
| And I was at a small museum in Springfield, Massachusetts. | ||
| At the end of a telephone line linked to the Jet Propulsion Laboratory in Pasadena, California, where about a thousand other reporters and press people and scientists and whatever had gathered to see this mission. | ||
| And what NASA arranged for the press was live television in the auditorium so the press and the networks could pick up TV live as this spacecraft, the first sent to the moon that was successful with a state-of-the-art television system built by RCA, Could basically give these images to the entire world, although at that time we didn't have satellites, so it was limited to those people in the auditorium, and then you had to, you know, fly the tape to New York, or send it by AT&T Long Lines, or stuff like that, so it was kind of an arduous process. | ||
| But NASA, even in the very beginnings, back in the 60s, a few years after it was formed, prided itself on showing us live pictures from other planets and other planetary missions. | ||
| For the first time in its entire history, Art, they had planned and had announced before the launch in September of 1992 that on Mars Observer, for some strange, quixotic reason, you know, they were going backward instead of forward. | ||
| The technology has gotten so good that you basically can see this stuff on a desktop computer, alright? | ||
| Right. | ||
| But the NASA folks were telling us and giving us all kinds of bizarre You know, multi-page memos and excuses why it was going to take Dr. Michael Malin, the guy whose camera was flying on the spacecraft, up to six months to generate the pictures. | ||
| I mean, it was absolutely asinine. | ||
| And it doesn't take, you know, a rocket scientist to see that it was basically a cover. | ||
| It was basically designed to prevent the American people from seeing what we have worked so hard to try to validate, and that is the possibility of extraterrestrial ruins on Mars at a place called Cydonia. | ||
| Boy, that's incredible. | ||
| Richard, hold just one moment while I ID the station. | ||
| We'll be right back. | ||
| Richard Hoagland is my guest, and he, as you know, is the author, | ||
| or should know, is the author of The Monuments of Mars. | ||
| We're going to be talking a lot about that this evening. | ||
| Stay right there. | ||
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From Jackie Gons Plaza downtown, this is KDWN Las Vegas. | |
| Area 2000. | ||
| Area 2000 on a Sunday evening, of course. | ||
| I'm Art Bell. | ||
| My guest is Richard C. Hoagland. | ||
| And back to it we go. | ||
| Richard, how much did you know about the capability of the Observer? | ||
| Now, in terms of the kind of detail and photographs that it could have received, or depending on your point of view, He's receiving. | ||
| I know that we've got a series of KH spy satellites that they say can resolve little tiny things on Earth. | ||
| Right. | ||
| Did this use that level of technology? | ||
| Well, close to it. | ||
| Remember, this is a civilian space agency, so we're not supposed to have access to the, you know, the best and the brightest and the high level of black-coded technology. | ||
| So the camera that Nolan had built, and we've found them so far, has good enough for 10 people, that is 1060 elements, to devise something the size of a coffee table on the Martian surface and a little over 230 miles above the surface in Mars orbit. | ||
| Now compare that And the photographs, which should have come back, both of the monuments of Mars and all kinds of other objects on the planet, would have been literally stunning. | ||
| They would have knocked your socks off, and there would have been no doubt, absolutely zero doubt in the mind of anybody, After looking at these pictures, that we were looking at artificial objects at Cydonia, which of course, if I may be, you know, given the editorial license here, is why NASA has hid the mission and the spacecraft from us. | ||
| They did not dare to give us that kind of data because then the fat would be in the fire. | ||
| Then we'd be arguing over who built them, not where they built. | ||
| All right. | ||
| This has always bothered me about this theory, Richard. | ||
| Uh, such is the case. | ||
| It was a, what, a billion dollar mission, billion dollar spacecraft, something like that. | ||
| 980 million, but who's going to quote another, you know, million year 50 million? | ||
| Alright, if they knew that this was, all this stuff was there, um, why launch in the first place? | ||
| Alright, that's, that's a very good question, and let me try to give you an answer from a perspective of 30 years of being a NASA launcher and also a NASA consultant. | ||
| NASA is a unique federal agency, Art. | ||
| What people don't understand, and which I hope after tonight they will understand, is that NASA is the weak link in the government cover-up. | ||
| Because when NASA gets into the Act, the Act gets into the Act. | ||
| That is the Space Act. | ||
| NASA was created back in 1958 by an Act of Congress which mandates the widest and appropriate dissemination of all the science results. | ||
| Bottom line is, There's very little in terms of data that NASA can, by law, keep secret. | ||
| Now, they can keep methods, because some of their methods, you know, infringe and lap over into the DOD, the Defense Department. | ||
| So there are many missions where we don't know how data is acquired. | ||
| But under law, we should know what data is acquired if it's of, you know, strictly scientific objects or scientific inquiries. | ||
| And unless you admit a priori, But there are ruins on Mars, and that's why you're not going to make the pictures public. | ||
| There's not a leg, a legal leg, that NASA can stand on to keep the pictures secret. | ||
| They have to lie. | ||
| And if they lie, it means they're violating federal law, and if they violate federal law, somebody in NASA is going to go to jail if you catch them. | ||
| Alright, minus the evidence that the observer would have or is, again, depending on your point of view, providing. | ||
| Um, what, what is your best evidence, Steve Bowes Richard, for the existence of these ruins? | ||
| The face, all the rest of it. | ||
| What is our best evidence right now? | ||
| Let me, let me, let me, let me finish your answer, your other question, and then I'll get to that. | ||
| Sure. | ||
| You asked, why would NASA think they could go there in secret and take pictures? | ||
| Because no one had ever questioned NASA before. | ||
| NASA is like, you know, the guys with the white hats? | ||
| You know, the impervious chain mail? | ||
| Until the Challenger disaster, where we tragically lost seven astronauts, and until Hubble, NASA could do no wrong. | ||
| I mean, I think it's ironic that we're having the show tonight, two days from the launch of the Endeavour mission, going up to fix Hubble, right? | ||
| NASA has come a long way, baby, since it could do no wrong. | ||
| Since it got us to the moon, you know, it built, you know, 50 foot tall heroes, NASA has been living for a long time on a tarnished image, and I say tarnished because when you look behind the mist, you find that there are some very strange things going on. | ||
| And what I think, personally, now with the speculation, is that NASA thought it could live on the mist, it thought it could go to Mars, in secret, and pretend it was doing it in public. | ||
| They never imagined, I really believe, that we would generate the kind of political groundswell, the kind of media observation and critique That would force them, basically, to decide between an open mission and no mission. | ||
| And my evidence to support that theory is that the spacecraft was lost, Mars Observer was lost. | ||
| It was announced that it was lost on Sunday morning at 11 o'clock Eastern Time on August 21st, alright? | ||
| Right. | ||
| That was literally as Dr. Devin French, who was the Mars Observer program scientist, And I were getting off ABC's Good Morning America after a coast-to-coast debate where basically French and NASA lost the debate in terms of why not take some pictures of Cydonia and why keep them secret. | ||
| And it was at 11 o'clock when that program went off after the host and ABC in essence sided with us that NASA just coincidentally announced to AP, Associated Press, Lee Siegel, there in Los Angeles, That it had lost Mars Observer 12 hours before, sometime on the previous Saturday night. | ||
| And of course, you know, I quipped, well why were they waiting 12 hours? | ||
| Were they going to wait to notify the next of kin? | ||
| Because, again, speculation. | ||
| It seems pretty clear to those of us in this project that what they were waiting for was to see how politically Their secret mission was going to fly, and when it looked obvious to anybody that it was not going to fly, that's when somebody put into position Plan B, and that's when they, in essence, pulled the plug. | ||
| Still, that had to be, prior to launch, one of the things, if all this is true, that they considered. | ||
| In other words, Option A, Option B. But Option B, which they apparently, you believe, took, is so incredibly damaging to NASA and their future budgetary Uh, hopes that I would think they would not have done that, rather not launched at all, than... ...aren't supposed to be bigger than NASA. | ||
| You see, this is where we come full circle. | ||
| I mean, the fact that I'm doing your show tonight, a program devoted to UFOs and things that go bump in the night... Right. | ||
| ...should be some measure of how robust this evidence has become. | ||
| Because if we have ruined another world, which Mars Observer could have verified for the entire Planet Earth's approval and, you know, approbation. | ||
| Then, immediately, once you have demonstrated there are ET ruins on another body in the solar system, all of the problems and all of the potentials of the UFO phenomena come falling out of the government closet. | ||
| Absolutely. | ||
| If you can prove there is one wrench, one stone, one built artifact anywhere else but on this planet, you have opened the door to a galaxy filled with the lifeforms And you have made credible, not true, but at least credible, the idea that somebody out there could come here and in fact could be coming here right now. | ||
| The only way the government can keep that door from being forced open is to forever keep us in the dark and to keep us from ever seeing one picture of a bonafide artifact sitting on another planet And that's why I think the question here is bigger than the fate of NASA. | ||
| The question is the fate of the 50, 30, 70 years, however long it's been, that we have been given the lie that the human race is, in fact, alone in the universe. | ||
| All right. | ||
| Very good, Richard. | ||
| That does describe a motive. | ||
| Now, we do get to my other question. | ||
| How sure are we there are monuments? | ||
| How sure are we the face is just not some Weird geographic circumstance. | ||
| In other words, what is the evidence that these things are on Mars? | ||
| Well, if you ask me that, let's see. | ||
| Even five years ago, I would have given you a very qualified, very conservative, very, quote, scientific answer. | ||
| Tonight, I can be much more forthcoming. | ||
| I have no doubt in my mind. | ||
| You know, it's 99.999% that they're there. | ||
| Not so much because of the artifacts themselves, But because of what we have discovered because of the artifacts. | ||
| There's a very important phenomenon in science called the power of specific prediction. | ||
| The power of a scientific theory is not in terms of proving the theory, but in terms of what the theory predicts that you will find elsewhere than in the theory. | ||
| And what we have found elsewhere than the theory that there are structures on Mars is a physics which has allowed us to look across the solar system and to see other phenomenon Operating in the Sun, in Jupiter, in Neptune, and even here on Earth, and to put that into a coherent new physics, which has extraordinary power of prediction, extraordinary power of the prediction of a technology, which will evolve from that physics, and in fact already has, and it is for the physics that I was given the International Excellence in Science Award by the Angstrom Foundation this year, in a ceremony in Washington, | ||
| Two days after NASA announced that it had lost the spacecraft, because the physics that comes from the geometry of the monuments of Mars is the powerful, predictive side of the fact that there are artifacts. | ||
| So for us, in this project, and obviously for the Einstein people, the discussion has moved light years beyond, are there artifacts? | ||
| It now is into, what do the artifacts mean, and how can we harness that meaning in other areas of science. | ||
| This is What sort of physics do you apply to come to that conclusion? | ||
| Okay, let me try to do this very briefly and without the pictures. | ||
| It's very difficult to do this without the pictures. | ||
| And if people want to see the pictures, we have put out a series of briefing tapes. | ||
| You mentioned the NASA briefings, you mentioned the UN briefings. | ||
|
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Right. | |
| These are available on home video if you want to see, you know, chapter and verse and good, you know, color computer graphics and all of the... | ||
| This stuff that I'm going to describe, if you want to see it laid out in explicit and stupid detail, I'd recommend that you get those home videos. | ||
| But for those who have not seen the videos, let's try to do this with our pictures. | ||
| What we have on now is a set of structures, the centerpiece of which is a mile-long, 1,500-foot-high humanoid image. | ||
| It looks like that. | ||
|
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Well, that's something that I'm not sure of. | |
| What's behind it is a very specific and highly repetitive mathematical pattern. | ||
| Are a set of other objects. | ||
| Pyramids, linear formations, circular formations with multiple tiers. | ||
| These are arranged in this extremely extraordinary geometry and repetitive geometry. | ||
| And it's a repetition that's important to us because in repetition there is signal against noise. | ||
| Mm-hmm, yes. | ||
| Those are repetitive, noise is random. | ||
| Mm-hmm. | ||
| From this geometry, my colleagues and myself, some of whose names I could give you if you're interested, | ||
| people like Errol Torren and others, were able to decode a set of mathematical constants, | ||
| which are in essence the fundamental constants of physics all over the universe. | ||
| And from these constants we were led to a specific kind of geometry called hyperdimensional geometry. | ||
| That is a geometry that a set group of mathematicians for a hundred years have been writing papers about | ||
| and publishing in the mathematical literature. | ||
| You're going to have to give us a layman's definition of that. | ||
|
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Right. | |
| Well, hyperdimensions means more than three dimensions. | ||
| Yes. | ||
| Four dimensions, five dimensions, six, whatever. | ||
| Right. | ||
| These have been considered theoretical up till now. | ||
| What we've discovered is that some of the mathematical predictions of these higher dimensions predict specific things, specific phenomena, that one might see on real objects like planets if one were to look. | ||
| And when we looked, lo and behold, we found the stuff that those predicted that we would find. | ||
| Energy upwelling at specific latitudes, geometric patterns in the clouds circling the poles, excess energy emissions where there should be no energy coming from inside the planets because planets are not stars, they're not supposed to be generating excess energy, things like this. | ||
| And all of this began with this set of geometries encoded in these objects, looped around the face that I have come to call the Monuments of Mars. | ||
| Now, if you follow the logic train, it's impossible under any normal position to round up to the latitude of the Great Dark Spot on Neptune, which we did. | ||
| In a paper we published in CompuServe two weeks before Voyager 2 arrived at Neptune, It's predicated on the reality of a set of structures on another planet, unless the structures are real, unless the mathematical logic change is real, unless the prediction has real power. | ||
| So that's why I can say with great confidence, backed up by the ancient people, that in fact we're dealing not only with the reality of structures on Mars, but structures laid out to give us a fundamental new view of physics, of how the universe really works, And of course, if you've followed any of the discussions over Steady Messages, the search for extraterrestrial intelligence over the last 30 or more years, this kind of fundamental information about how the universe functions is exactly in the forefront of what anybody from Sagan to Drake to Morrison have been saying a Steady Message would contain. | ||
| The only problem is, they were predicting that it would come by means of radio from someplace safely many, many, many light years away, And we found this kind of fundamental information encoded in the geometric layout of a group of structures on a nearby planet known as Mars. | ||
| Well, Richard, call me dimensionally challenged if you wish, but I'm still not somehow grasping... In other words, you have, from these structures, devised some new basis of We have now discovered two separate groups of scientists here on Earth who have been working with this physics for the last hundred years, Art, and we never knew it. | ||
| I've mentioned one group. | ||
| They're called mathematical topologists. | ||
| A topologist is a mathematician who can look at a donut and a cup of coffee, and you and me, and say they're all the same. | ||
| So you do not send mathematical topologists to Dunkin' Donuts to bring back donuts, right? | ||
| Yes. | ||
| The other group of scientists, it turns out, who have been working or began to work with this identical higher dimensional reality base for physics were the physicists themselves. | ||
| You probably have heard of a guy named James Clerk Maxwell. | ||
| The name is familiar. | ||
| Maxwell's Equations? | ||
| Yes. | ||
| Without Maxwell's Equations, you and I would not be having this conversation, and none of your listeners out in radio land would be listening to us tonight. | ||
| Maxwell's Equations describes the electromagnetic phenomenon of radio, as well as light, as well as ultraviolet, infrared, x-rays, the whole spectrum, whereby you and I are having this conversation for your audience this evening. | ||
| What you do not know, and what many people do not know, is that Maxwell, a hundred years ago, originally wrote his 200-plus equations, completely describing electromagnetic theory, in four-phase terms, in higher-dimensional terms. | ||
| They were later simplified, I love that phrase, by a guy named Oliver Heaviside, another physicist, about 20 years later. | ||
| And we were only given four of the original 200 equations and those, the four space terms, had been eliminated from the equation. | ||
| So for the last hundred years, physics has been limping along with a, you know, it's almost like putting dark glasses on and not looking at the real universe. | ||
| And we've only discovered this in the last couple of months, that Maxwell's original equations were predicated on founded on, implicitly incorporated, higher dimensional, | ||
| four-space terms called, for those mathematically inclined in your audience, | ||
| quaternions. | ||
| And anybody out there can check in the ancient history books, | ||
| not the modern physics texts, but the really initial ones of about a hundred years ago, | ||
| and they will discover the truth of the statement. | ||
| Now, what's interesting to me, given, you know, somewhat of a | ||
| perspective of paranoia about government cover-ups, in terms of UFOs, | ||
| is that we seem, every time in the last hundred years we were going to get a handle on this physics, | ||
| we seem to have taken the wrong turn. | ||
| Now, do we take this wrong turn by accident? | ||
| Or do we take it because there perhaps has been a larger perspective that did not want us to know that physics might apply to more than three dimensions? | ||
| I don't have an answer for that question, but it's an interesting question to pose because the power of hyperdimensional physics Not only gives you, quote, free energy, a term that I'm sure has been discussed on your show more than once, it also gives you control of gravity. | ||
| And there are a few things flying around in the skies over your head, if not tonight, on other nights that I've heard about, that I believe are part of a secret government project to apply the real Maxwell's equations in a black-budgeted program that's been at least 30 to 40 years in the making. | ||
| And that if you see UFOs in terrestrial skies, there's an even likelihood that they're ours. | ||
| That we built them using very fundamental, secret, hyper-dimensional physics and technology paid for by your and my tech money. | ||
| All right, now, believe it or not, that seems reasonable to me, Richard. | ||
| I've seen recently a UFO. | ||
| I had my own experience, finally. | ||
| First one I ever saw in my life. | ||
| But that aside for a second, when you take this new hyper-dimensional physics, And you go to a conventional physicist and lay it out for him. | ||
| What is the usual reaction? | ||
| Well, it starts out with incredulity, and then you point them to the literature, to Maxwell, to the topologists, and they come back to you and they say, I'm going to have to really think about this. | ||
| And we have evidence that, you know, this is happening all over the country. | ||
| There's a gentleman I think you're going to have on your show in a couple, three weeks. | ||
| Dr. Stanley McDaniel? | ||
| Yes. | ||
| Who is an epistemologist. | ||
| He's an ethicist. | ||
| He's an historian of science and he is the former chairman of the Philosophy Department of Sonoma State University. | ||
| About a year ago, Stan McDaniel called me up and he said, I'm doing a paper on all you guys who've been talking about this Mars stuff. | ||
| Would you send me some reference? | ||
| Would you send me some things? | ||
| Thus began a dialogue. | ||
| A year later, McDaniel produced about a 200-page document now called the McDaniel Report. | ||
| Which not only went into chapter and verse all our investigation into the monuments of Mars, our methodologies, our measurements, our controls, you know, the background of everybody who was involved in this project, the precision of measurement, everything you could think of that would, you know, tend to discredit or validate our approach, but he also went into the tertiary implications, including the physics. | ||
| It is McDaniel's conclusion That, on the whole, those of us involved in this independent investigation have done some pretty good science. | ||
| And, by contrast, NASA has done no science. | ||
| And most important is that there is an area of physics here that should be explored and expanded. | ||
| And it was after you reached that conclusion that, independently, the Angstrom Foundation awarded us the medal this year for the physics associated with the object of Cydonia. | ||
| I heartily recommend to your audience the time they're going to spend with Dr. McDaniel on your show, because here is a person who has the sweep of science, has the perspective of how science should be done when it works at its best, and who has basically come along as the independent peer review of all of us who've been trying to put some rigor into this very flaky field, and who has basically validated not only our methodology, but many of our most important conclusions. | ||
| Richard, Very briefly, without going into all the detail that I've gone into before, I saw... I live in the Pahrump Valley, which is about 65 miles west of Las Vegas, in a valley or so adjacent to Area 51. | ||
| And one night, not long ago, I saw a very large, triangular craft that came not more than 150 feet above my stopped automobile in the dead quiet It was a full moon, very much like tonight, without the eclipse part of it, and I could see the substance of this craft. | ||
| It was dead flat black against a lighter sky, and it literally floated at a slow speed, slower than, you know, would be able to keep it in aerodynamic flight, and utterly quiet. | ||
| Since that time, I've had all kinds of people send me information on this kind of a craft and this kind of technology, but it would seem To me, that the kind of physics you're talking about would be required to do something like that, because it wasn't flying, Richard, it was floating. | ||
| And wouldn't it take that exact sort of technology to achieve that? | ||
| Exactly. | ||
| But you see, this is the important part, and this is where we can get into a wonderful discussion about, you know, is it ours or theirs? | ||
| I believe, and this again is a personal perspective, that an awful lot of the captured UFO, you know, captured alien technology stories coming out of Nevada and its government, are in fact deliberate misinformation. | ||
| Misinformation to keep the New York Times from ever taking seriously loudly that this is a physics that we ourselves have mastered 500 years ago, and then very quietly suppress. | ||
| Everybody is familiar, or at least they should be familiar, With the history of Nikola Tesla. | ||
| Yes. | ||
| And you know what I'm going to say. | ||
| Yes. | ||
| Tesla wanted to harness the energy of the Earth, which is nothing more than another way of saying hyper-dimensional physics, to beam, to broadcast free electric power, essential power which is emitted from, well, some of what's able to harm the Earth at this point, all over the planet to be picked up by relatively inexpensive receivers on homes and cars and boats and stuff like that. | ||
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Right. | |
| Industrialist J.P. | ||
| Morgan was backing him in his research until he discovered what Tesla, for whom the 20th century would not exist without Nikola Tesla. | ||
| Everybody thinks it's Edison and, uh, you know, Westinghouse and all that. | ||
| It's Tesla that is making the lights, you know, go on in your living room tonight, boys and girls. | ||
| It's Tesla who gave us, you know, a 60-cycle and 120-cycle A.C. | ||
| current. | ||
| It's Tesla who built generators and motors and You know, all kinds of inventions that basically gave us the 20th century, and whose name has been almost expunged in any modern text. | ||
| Such is the power of an academic establishment that is twisted or manipulated to forget those to whom it does not want to remember. | ||
| Tesla, when Morgan found out what Tesla was going to do, he literally pulled the plug. | ||
| and for the rest of his life Tesla was kind of wandering around | ||
| this errant genius sitting in hotel rooms giving you know back of the envelope interviews to members of the | ||
| New York Post but he never you know regained or attained any of the stature | ||
| that he had when he had funding | ||
| he became a non-person alright here let me ask this Richard | ||
| my bottom line is that these technologies, this knowledge we have a list of areas now | ||
| where for some reason We've done the wrong thing, Art, instead of the right thing. | ||
| And I'm beginning to think it's not an accident. | ||
| I'm beginning to think that for the last hundred years, this planet has been on a forced evolution in a different direction than it should have taken, given that it was a level playing field. | ||
| But Richard... He does not want us to have the benefits of this kind of physics and technology, or they wanted it for themselves. | ||
| And that's what you're seeing flying around over top secret areas. | ||
| By the way Richard, if Tesla, if that is what Tesla had, and they have this technology, and have it now, Why would they utilize it for nothing more than flying some of these little black-budget, top-secret aircraft around and playing those sorts of games when the world could have, if what you're saying about Tesla is correct, free power and everybody would become very rich and all the rest of it. | ||
| In other words, why the motive to keep the larger applications of this down? | ||
| Well, speculation. | ||
| Are you sure? | ||
| Maybe somebody doesn't want everybody to be very rich. | ||
| I mean, we fought a war and we lost a lot of people called Desert Storm to protect oil. | ||
| Right? | ||
| Yes, I agree with that. | ||
| I agree. | ||
| This physics says to me that that was a waste of time and money and blood and sweat of American men and women. | ||
| It was pointless. | ||
| We don't need to do that anymore. | ||
| And that's what's so unconscionable. | ||
| This is bigger than just, you know, keeping us from knowing they're aliens or keeping us from From understanding why there are monuments on Mars, this is nothing, I believe, than the heart and soul and freedom and destiny of the human species. | ||
| And unless Americans, you know, who have some heritage of freedom, begin to ask hard questions, begin to ask who has been manipulating their realities, for what reason and for how long, you know, we do not have a future. | ||
| We have a past. | ||
| The future is up to other people who I've been very carefully shielding us from some very important truth. | ||
| And the papers, and the paper trail, is in the literature. | ||
| There's a gentleman named T. Townsend Brown, that I'm sure you've discussed on your program, a former naval admiral, now dead, back in the 20s. | ||
| He and a guy named Byfield, who was a colleague of Einstein's, discovered that if you charge a capacitor to a very high voltage, it exhibits A potential anti-gravity effect. | ||
| Brown, which people do not know, and which I can, you know, tell everybody tonight because this is the area that I'm most intrigued with, went on over the subsequent decades to conduct a long-term series of very fundamental physics experiments, which were encoded in a set of field notes of which I have now gained access to some. | ||
| In those notes, there are observations of what he termed rock electricity that are in exact correspondence to predictions of the hyperdimensional physics we have crafted from decoding the monuments of Mars. | ||
| Wow. | ||
| Richard, hold on a sec. | ||
| We have a top-of-the-hour newscast, which means you've got a five-minute break. | ||
| I want to ask you about that capacitor charge. | ||
| That's fascinating. | ||
| And a couple of other things. | ||
| So relax for about five minutes and we'll be right back, all right? | ||
| That's Richard C. Hoagland, all the way from New Jersey. | ||
| Good evening, everybody. | ||
| You are listening... You're listening to Area 2000. | ||
| I'm Art Bell, and we'll be right back. | ||
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Good evening. | |
| Welcome back to the... | ||
| Very best program of its sort. | ||
| This is Area 2000. | ||
| My guest is Richard C. Hoagland. | ||
| All the way from New Jersey. | ||
| A lot of fascinating stuff. | ||
| Back to it now. | ||
| Richard, good evening. | ||
| Are you still there? | ||
| I'm here. | ||
| Good. | ||
| You mentioned something that really fascinated me. | ||
| A capacitor charge. | ||
| Can you tell me any of the technical details at all? | ||
| How much of a charge you're talking about? | ||
| What size of a capacitor? | ||
| Well, remember, these were capacitors that were built back in the 20s, and the internal design, I found, because I've done some homework in this area for obvious reasons, has changed. | ||
| You cannot buy capacitors currently that will exhibit these effects, because they're not designed the same way. | ||
| And that, of course, raises interesting questions, why not? | ||
| But the old-style capacitors, the kind that Tesla was using, the kind that Brown was using, and the kind that you could easily build again today if you just knew what you were doing, Uh, when they were charged to 50,000, 100,000 volts, they exhibited what people would think was, in essence, an anti-gravity effect. | ||
| They tended to move toward the positive pole. | ||
| Uh, if you turn them upside down, they tend to move toward the positive pole so they would gain weight. | ||
| So it was not, uh, attitude dependent. | ||
| It appeared to be some effect of charge separation. | ||
| Apparently, Brown did a lot of efforts to try to get official Washington interested. | ||
| He tried to get the Navy interested in funding him. | ||
| He tried to get private enterprise interested. | ||
| There were some intriguing, kind of what I would call, hatchet-type papers written by one reviewer in particular, who was hired by the Navy to review his experiment. | ||
| And when that was done, official interest, in essence, disappeared. | ||
| But he was never really making public presentations after that. | ||
| You say you've done some homework in the area. | ||
| In what manner did the dielectric differ from today's capacity? | ||
| It wasn't so much the dielectric, it was the geometry. | ||
| The geometry. | ||
| Remember, we're dealing with a hyperspatial geometry, so geometry is kind of intriguing to me. | ||
| You know, the details, I mean, this is obviously not the place to get into the details, but there is going to be A whole conference at Temple University sometime next year on Biceo Brown. | ||
| And I have been invited to submit a paper, given that we have a physics that seems to be applicable. | ||
| And if you're really interested, off the air I can give you the organizer and you can talk to them directly and perhaps get them on your show. | ||
| Boy, I'd love to. | ||
| It's fascinating. | ||
| All right. | ||
| Just a quick switch here. | ||
| As you pointed out, we're about to launch the mission to try and fix the Hubble. | ||
| It looks like a very, and I'm no expert in the area, Richard, but it looks like a very risky mission. | ||
| I don't know what the chances of success are, but I have a number of questions. | ||
| One, do you agree that it looks like a risky mission at a time when NASA, and I've heard a lot of commentators lately suggesting that if they screw up the Hubble fix, NASA's in big, big trouble. | ||
| So, how do you assess this upcoming mission? | ||
| Well, one of the curious things is that Dan Golden said a few weeks ago that the objective of the Hubble fix is not to fix Hubble, which I think is an amazing statement by the head of NASA to make. | ||
| It's going to require quite a number of spacewalks. | ||
| Between five and seven. | ||
| Right. | ||
| It's extremely complex. | ||
| In one sense, it's the kind of mission for which we have been building the NASA program for the last 30 years. | ||
| I mean, ultimately, If you're going to do any work in space, if you're going to build space stations, if you're going to go to other planets, you've got to be able to do this stuff. | ||
| This is something you ought to be able to do. | ||
| On the other hand, it's kind of strange that we should have had to do it at all, because why was a $2 billion telescope launched with a broken mirror? | ||
| That's a question that I still have not satisfactorily answered. | ||
| And the problem for NASA's credibility is that when you begin to find that they're lying to you in one area, you begin to suspect other areas. | ||
| Of course. | ||
| And there's a pattern of deception around the Mars data, which is as wide as the Mississippi and as deep as the flood areas this past summer. | ||
| That's not me, that's Dr. McDaniel saying that. | ||
| What's amazing is that it was 36 hours after the McDaniel Report was delivered by couriers to Devon French at NASA Headquarters that NASA lost the spacecraft, lost Mars Observer. | ||
| Now, in this report, McDaniel, again, not Hoagland, but McDaniel, was accusing NASA of about to commit one of the most egregious crimes against the ethics of science in all of scientific history. | ||
| By not taking the pictures of Cydonia, guaranteeing they were going to try to acquire them, where the face and the pyramids are located, and then by not making them available live as they were beamed back from the spacecraft. | ||
| Now, losing the spacecraft very neatly got NASA off the hook, would you not say? | ||
| Oh, well, yes, I would, at a great political price, yes. | ||
| Although, as you point out, if what you're suggesting is true, then yes, there would be motive, I suppose, to do that. | ||
| Well, I mean, let's not split hairs. | ||
| There is overwhelming evidence that there has been deep and intense federal interest in the extraterrestrial phenomenology for at least 50 years. | ||
| You know, you don't have to go very far to find, for instance, the extremely well-documented case of Roswell. | ||
| To know that at least since 1947 some person or persons in this government has been up to their eyebrows in trying to puzzle out what's been going on with a phenomenon that they simply did not feel they could bring themselves to tell the American people about. | ||
| Alright, what is your view with regard to the current status of the Observer? | ||
| What's the reality do you think? | ||
| Well, given the model that we proposed at our National Press Club meeting, you may or may not know this, but on August 24th, we had scheduled, that was the day that the spacecraft was supposed to go into orbit, and we had scheduled about a month before, a press club briefing in Washington, at the National Press Club, of many of our major researchers associated with the Mars mission, that's the non-profit research group that I head, as well as friends of the Mars mission, people who are not formally You know, members of the research, but who are colleagues and advisors and, you know, people like Dr. David Webb, who is a former member of the President's Space Commission under President Reagan. | ||
| Or people like Tom Van Flandern, who was the former head of the Celestial Mechanics Branch at the U.S. | ||
| Naval Observatory in Washington, D.C. | ||
| I mean, these are, these people are not flakes. | ||
| They're substantive people who feel that we should at least have been given an even shot to get the photographs, and who were egregiously outraged That on the eve of going into orbit, NASA should, quote, lose the spacecraft under extremely mysterious circumstances. | ||
| At that press conference, when I was asked, I said that I had to admit that the circumstances were somewhat suspicious, given that on the record NASA had refused to guarantee new images, and that in McDaniel's terms they were about to commit this outrageous violation of fundamental science ethics by not taking the pictures and not showing them to the American people. | ||
| Since that statement, we have had four different phone calls from four different sources. | ||
| Three from NASA and one from one of the intelligence agencies through what I call identified third parties. | ||
| That means someone between me and these people who they know, who I know, but the sources do not know each other. | ||
| So these are independent confirmations that in fact NASA has hidden the mission. | ||
| It is simply Uh, you know, converted Mars Observer into a stealth mission. | ||
| And even as we speak tonight on November 28th, they are in the process of taking extraordinary data from that camera and relaying it back to Earth. | ||
| Mars Observer is alive and well. | ||
| The American people and most of NASA, this is very important, most of NASA simply does not know. | ||
| And those that do are afraid to stand up and simply call a state of state, simply tell anybody what's going on. | ||
| For some very obvious reasons. | ||
| Now... You're saying the data is coming back now? | ||
| That's what we have been told. | ||
| Would there not be a way to confirm that fact? | ||
| In other words, data must be transmitted and... And we're working on it. | ||
|
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Okay. | |
| I can announce tonight that, you know, on the 24th I stood up there and I said, if there is a radio telescope facility or facility that would like to assist us in putting a little honesty in the government, Yes. | ||
| Now would be the time to come forward. | ||
| Well, it's taken us several months, but we finally have had what I will term as serious nibbles. | ||
| And I don't want to be any more specific, because obviously if NASA people who are part of this rogue group, as I have termed it, are listening, and I'm sure somebody monitors your show. | ||
| Oh, yeah. | ||
| They would love to know when and how we're going to be listening. | ||
| And I suppose if they were warned of that, they would shut it down. | ||
| Exactly. | ||
| Because it's a little like trying to meet somebody in Times Square. | ||
| Now, if you don't arrange the time and the date, you know, you have about as much chance of meeting somebody in Times Square in New York as I have of, you know, winning the... | ||
| The Lottery in New York. | ||
| So, if they knew we were going to listen, and they knew from, more important maybe, is where we were going to listen, they would then simply transmit to another receiver and another antenna on the other side of the world, and we wouldn't have a snowball's chance of hearing them. | ||
| So we're not going to get into specifics, but I can tell you that a very significant professional effort has apparently been ginned up and is apparently going to be put at our disposal In the very near future, I'm talking, you know, a matter of a couple days, because of the suspicions of these people that NASA has not been telling the truth. | ||
| And again, I want to tell you that four different calls from sources that don't know each other have basically confirmed through people that I know that, in fact, this is what's going on. | ||
| And when you get four sources and you go, look, Woodard and Bernstein only had one, right? | ||
| But we're doing them a lot better. | ||
| Uh, 2020 is following this carefully. | ||
| And, uh, if we get anything, obviously, you know, we would let them and you and everybody else know. | ||
| Uh, I talked to some other network people in Washington. | ||
| The day that I won the Angstrom, I was asked to come for a meeting with a senior network anchor and his entire staff. | ||
| I was intrigued that he wanted his entire staff to be on the meeting. | ||
| And it was only supposed to be a few minutes. | ||
| It went almost an hour. | ||
| And he said to me, Dick, he said, I would love I would love to believe that this could be right, but I can't imagine anybody in this town, meaning Washington, being able to keep a secret. | ||
| Right. | ||
| He said, you've got to bring me some kind of proof. | ||
| The problem there, Art, is that if you're a news person, and you live in a world where telling things makes you money, you can't imagine a world where not telling something would make you more money, or would give you access to something that's even more important in some people's minds than money, and that is power. | ||
| I mean, can you imagine one of these guys cutting his throat, cutting himself off forever from the data by standing up on NBC and saying, you know, my boss is running a secret mission? | ||
| Sure. | ||
| End of career. | ||
| End of career, end of livelihood, end of respect by his peers. | ||
| I can tell you from absolute first-person experience that when I spoke at NASA Lewis, there was some, I'll just say, irregularities that occurred around my presentation. | ||
| And if we have time, I'll get into the details, but I don't want to interrupt the prologue story by telling you them now. | ||
| All I can say is I was discouraged enough to call a couple of NASA people and basically made, uh, protestations I was going to complain all the way up to the director's office. | ||
| And maybe even outside, uh, to a couple of news organizations. | ||
| And I was told proudly by these NASA people, for God's sake, don't do that. | ||
| Let's keep it in the family. | ||
| Well, I'll tell you something, Richard. | ||
| It got a little bit like, you know... If I were the person holding all this back, Richard, and you were running around saying the stuff you're saying, I'd find a way to get you shut up. | ||
| Has anybody tried? | ||
| I don't think so. | ||
| I mean, I'm still here. | ||
| Well, for now, but I mean this, you know, if there's something to what you're saying, you're a very dangerous person. | ||
| Well, I think there's a lot of very dangerous people. | ||
| What I see is the dam has got all kinds of cracks and is on the verge of blowing sky high. | ||
| There are too many things that are falling into place. | ||
| There's too much convergent information. | ||
| There's too much good data now out there and good people chasing good data. | ||
| this thing, this pretense that there's nothing going on and we're sitting here all by our lonesome | ||
| and there's nothing on another planet and there's no, you know, extraordinary new way | ||
| of looking at the universe and applying that knowledge to changing, you know, the sad state of affairs | ||
| on this planet. | ||
| There is no way that that can be kept in a bottle very much longer. | ||
| So if I were to disappear tomorrow, all it would be for some is an affirmation | ||
| that everything I have said has been probably just about the way I've represented it | ||
| and there'll be other people willing to pick up the cudgel because they would know at some point | ||
| they would be vindicated and there might be honor and glory and God knows what that would go along with. | ||
| Speculation, Richard. | ||
| Do you suppose that they're depending on the fact that you remain sort of lost in the noise? | ||
| I don't think so because, you know, when you're taken very seriously by, as I said, network people, when you're discussing with the folks on Capitol Hill at the level that we're discussing what's going on with the spacecraft, when you've got serious radio astronomers giving you Giving you multi-million dollar facilities, which we could never hope to build on our own, you know, to basically catch them in the act. | ||
| That's a pretty powerful network of folks that stand against the relative hand few of those in government who I think have manipulated us on these issues for far too long. | ||
| Remember, my model is that most of the system is honest. | ||
| And if that's true, Then as the McDaniel Report gets circulated throughout NASA, and we just received a grant to be able to print several thousand copies and distribute them to NASA, to the Hill, to the United Nations, to academia, as the truth and the veracity of what McDaniel has meticulously documented in this report works its way through the system, there'll be lots of honest people that will look around and begin to wonder just what the hell has been going on | ||
| And why have I been keeping my head down and not looking at what's been going on? | ||
| So I don't think that the cover-up is going to obtain much longer, and in fact I see evidence that there's a lot of desperation of what's going on. | ||
| The last thing they should have done is to hit the spacecraft. | ||
| If they tossed it out, if they had simply tried to stick to their timeline and given us these dumb technical reasons that we knew were dumb but the press didn't, they may have been able to pull it off. | ||
| But by, you know, pulling the plug, by pretending that a billion dollar, extraordinarily sophisticated piece of robot hardware, 30 years down the line, not at the beginning of the process, but the end of the process, just can, you know, not phone home one evening. | ||
| They have made an awful lot of people who are not even paying attention, suddenly say, wait a minute, there's really something weird here. | ||
| What is going on? | ||
| So I don't think we're dealing with 50-foot-tall giants. | ||
| I think we're dealing with a small group of very scared men, and they are men, they're not women, they're men, and they've been at this for a very long time. | ||
| They've been living in a closed room, they have got very warped blinders on, they don't realize the world has fundamentally changed, and they're living in the past, and that does not make for good policy or wise or intelligent decision-making. | ||
| What is their latest and final proclamation about what they claim occurred? | ||
| I remember when the news story broke about all this, Richard, they were talking about a defective transistor, that they'd had trouble with it on previous missions and all the rest of it. | ||
| None of that ever added up to me. | ||
| Because you don't risk a $1 billion mission on something you already know has been trouble in the past. | ||
| That didn't make sense. | ||
| Then they talk about the possibility of pressurization and an explosion at that moment. | ||
| What's the story they're sticking with at the moment? | ||
| Well, the actual report is going to come out of the official, you know, what-went-wrong committee around, you know, terminus in the next couple of weeks. | ||
|
unidentified
|
It was 30th of November. | |
| The training review team that Dan Dolan, who's the head of NASA, has appointed, which, by the way, consists primarily of people out of NRL, the Naval Research Laboratory, is going to make its report. | ||
| It has been my prediction in print that what NASA is going to do is to take that report and, quote, acquire it, and sometime around January 8th, we will have a miraculous save. | ||
| They will find the Mars Observer spacecraft. | ||
| And the reason that they will find it is because, what you pointed out before, they have, in terms of NASA, they have an agency going down the drain. | ||
| Oh, yeah, indeed. | ||
| If the Hubble fix is not anywhere near as successful as it has been billed that it has to be, and you know the press is going to be super critical, and if they, you know, don't tighten down three bolts, they're going to claim that the thing didn't work, they have got to have this spacecraft come back. | ||
| As an example of their brilliant technical prowess. | ||
| Well, yeah, but what then? | ||
| Then all of a sudden, we're back to square one, and, uh, uh, a look at the areas that you've been talking about, and the whole thing breaks open, so... Oh, yes and no, because if I were then, if I were planning, uh, this strategy, and I'll put myself in their shoes for a minute, what I would be doing now is taking the pictures that we desperately all need. | ||
| I would then use the supercomputer facilities as a state-of-the-art, Remember the big bust in the Geographic a few years ago when they moved the, uh, Teflon Pyramid about four meters north for a cover on the magazine? | ||
| So you're saying they jimmy the pictures. | ||
| Exactly. | ||
| And they will give them to us as live pictures, and by pretending that it's only a pile of rocks, they will hope provenly that it will all go away. | ||
| Now, are people going to believe it? | ||
| I don't think so. | ||
| So, it's really up for grabs. | ||
| If it comes back and they try to do that, I would hope your audience would be at the forefront of an independent review panel to basically look at the algorithms, to demand that they really be live images, and to scrutinize the procedures and policies that McDaniel has so forthrightly recommended. | ||
| And you expect this about January 8th, but dependent upon the success of Hubble. | ||
| The reason that I say January 8th is kind of a cute story. | ||
| We were predicting January 7th. | ||
| The reason it's January 7th is because on December 16th, in a couple, uh, three weeks, the Mars Observer and Mars will go too close to the Sun for commanding, for the antennas in the Earth to successfully communicate. | ||
| Right. | ||
| Around January 7th, the spacecraft and the planet will clear the other side of the Sun And get far enough away so that NASA could resume normal communication. | ||
| A logical time to try again. | ||
| I said on a radio show a few weeks ago that they were going to do this on January 7th, and the following day, one of my sources, remember one of these unnamed sources out of the agency? | ||
| Yes. | ||
| Called a personal acquaintance and said, tell Hoagland it's January 8th, not January 7th. | ||
| It's that specific. | ||
| Now whether they're going to stick to that timetable, Depends on how credible someone thinks that our predictions are, and if they want to play into our hands by basically fulfilling the prediction. | ||
| I am hoping that they continue to think of us as a mosquito, which is what we've been termed in some quarters. | ||
| And they think, as power always thinks, that it has every bet ace. | ||
| And that they do bring it back, because I have a feeling that there is going to be a rather remarkable surprise in terms of the reaction from the press and public if that, in fact, occurs. | ||
| It's going to be a very long December. | ||
| What do you expect? | ||
| Give me your best prediction about what we will be told with regard to Hubble and what's going to happen. | ||
| Do you have any thoughts on that? | ||
| Well, I really haven't focused on Hubble. | ||
| Well, you haven't, but you said something that intrigued me. | ||
| You said something about that Hubble really won't be fixed. | ||
| This is not a mission to fix Hubble. | ||
| Goldman said that. | ||
| Dan Golden basically said, with all this money and all this enormous pressure on correcting the optics and the spherical aberration and putting these new boxes in and all that, that don't be surprised if we don't get everything fixed. | ||
| And in fact, the objective of the mission is not to fix Hubble, it's to prove that we can fix Hubble. | ||
| Which is the neatest Washington double speak that I've heard in a long time. | ||
| That is something. | ||
| If Hubble were to be fixed, And lived up to the original expectations. | ||
| Would there be any application, Richard, do you know, for Mars? | ||
| No, because, and the numbers are very clear here, you cannot see anything significant on Mars by looking at it with Hubble. | ||
| Okay. | ||
| The face itself is only about a pixel across. | ||
| So that's under the most optimum conditions, and Mars is nowhere close to the most optimum. | ||
| So, you know, no, Hubble has not been screwed up because of Mars. | ||
| However, you know, what bothers me about the whole Hubble thing, and in the back of my mind there's this nagging suspicion that for some reason NASA needed an excuse to go back and visit Hubble a lot sooner than it otherwise would have. | ||
| And it's very obvious that, you know, you can tell a computer To basically fake any picture you want. | ||
| Remember, we're living now in a world of virtual reality. | ||
| Oh, yes. | ||
| We're not seeing real pictures, guys. | ||
| We're seeing images that come through computers of real pictures. | ||
| Now, if you can have an algorithm to sharpen, which we have, you can also have an algorithm to blur. | ||
| Absolutely. | ||
| All right? | ||
| So when you get console operators reading out data at the Goddard Space Flight Center of a spherically aberrated mirror on the ground, There's no, pardon the expression, ground truth in orbit that the mirror really has the problem. | ||
| What you're looking at is the end of a very long data stream and a picture that's basically been given to you by a computer. | ||
| Suppose, I'm just going to run a scenario here, suppose somebody wanted an excuse to | ||
| mount a very elaborate mission in the December of 1993 in Earth orbit that would require | ||
| 5 to 7 spacewalks to do something, which under any normal NASA budget would never fly through | ||
| Congress, right? | ||
| Right. | ||
| And suppose they decided that the neat excuse to get that mission up there to do something | ||
| was to fix Hubble. | ||
| Uh huh. | ||
| In other words, there's nothing wrong with Hubble in this scenario, it's the excuse | ||
| there's something wrong with Hubble that gives you a reason to fly a very elaborate mission | ||
| with lots of astronauts, lots of EVA, and God knows what. | ||
| All right? | ||
| Now, let me give you a very disturbing piece of information. | ||
| And I don't know whether this has any meaning, pro or con, or yes or no. | ||
| I'm just going to lay it out. | ||
| And I've not discussed this before because it never really came up. | ||
| And I don't like discussing things that don't have relevance, but now it does seem to have some relevance. | ||
| Um, we're all familiar with, uh, the tragic death of the President's counselor, Vincent Foster. | ||
| Yes. | ||
| Uh, several months ago. | ||
| Absolutely. | ||
| Uh, a member of the President's staff, worked with Hillary, came up from Little Rock, you know, good family man, religious, uh, apparently soul of the earth. | ||
| Uh, and one afternoon he walked out of the White House and that evening he found shot to death. | ||
| In a small park across the Potomac, not too far from CIA headquarters, as a matter of fact. | ||
| Correct. | ||
| And no one can figure out why this man would take his own life in such a strange fashion, shooting himself in the mouth in a parked car. | ||
| Right. | ||
| What you don't know, and what your audience needs to know, is that two days before, a few miles away in Maryland, a scientist was found in another roadside rest Also shot to death in a parked car by a magnum in the mouth. | ||
| Wow. | ||
| And his name was Paul Southgate, and he worked for the Hubble Space Institute as an eight-year computer systems analyst. | ||
| Holy mackerel. | ||
| Now, you put it together. | ||
| Well, I'm not sure I can, but that's an incredible piece of news. | ||
| Uh, Richard, hold on just one second while I ID the station. | ||
| Wow. | ||
| Wow is justified, isn't it? | ||
| Richard C. Hoagland. | ||
| Alright, a lot of information to get out. | ||
|
unidentified
|
I am going to go ahead and open the telephone lines this evening. | |
| From Jackie Gons Pleasure downtown, this is KDWN Las Vegas. | ||
| Alright, a lot of information to get out. I am going to go ahead and open the telephone | ||
| lines this evening. And I can see we're not going to have enough time to do a quarter | ||
| of what we ought to do. Here are the telephone numbers in the metropolitan area of Las Vegas. | ||
|
unidentified
|
383-8255-8255. | |
| Toll free outside the state. | ||
|
unidentified
|
It's 1-800-338-8255. | |
| We have the wildcard direct lines at area code 702-385-7214. | ||
| toll free outside the state it's 1-800-338-8255 we have the wildcard direct lines at area | ||
| code 702-385-7214 and finally if you have never called first time callers at area code | ||
| 702-385-7214 Not enough time, Richard. | ||
| Would you like to take some calls? | ||
|
unidentified
|
Sure. | |
| All right. | ||
| I'd love to do that. | ||
| We don't have a lot of time, so good evening from Jackie Gaughan's Plaza Hotel. | ||
| You're on the air with Richard Hoagland. | ||
| Hello, this is Mike in San Luis Obispo. | ||
|
unidentified
|
How are you doing, Art? | |
| Fine, Mike. | ||
|
unidentified
|
I just have a real general question for your guest, and boy, it's an incredible show tonight. | |
| Two questions. | ||
| Could you describe your feelings about the patriotism of the people who are concealing information about these extraterrestrial realities? | ||
| And do you think that President Clinton knows about these? | ||
| And I'll take the answer on the air. | ||
| Alright, thank you. | ||
| Of those involved in the cover-up and their patriotism? | ||
|
unidentified
|
Uh-oh. | |
| Well, I managed to do that, didn't I? | ||
| I managed to disconnect Richard C. Hoagland. | ||
| So, what we're going to have to do is get him back on the line again. | ||
| And I'm going to have to figure out a way that I can do that. | ||
| Let me see here. | ||
| This is not going to be easy. | ||
| But such things have occurred before. | ||
| And it is a particularly interesting question. | ||
| So, let's see if we can get him back on the line. | ||
| Let's see. | ||
| I think we can do this. | ||
| That would do it if I could manage to... Let me see. | ||
| I don't want to put this on the air. | ||
| And this does occasionally occur. | ||
| Every single line in here is jammed up. | ||
| I think we're going to be okay now. | ||
| Let's see if we can get them back on. | ||
| Hello. | ||
| Hi, Richard. | ||
| Sorry, we disconnected you. | ||
| Richard, the question was with regard to the patriotism, I guess you heard it, of those who might be keeping all this secret. | ||
| Right. | ||
| Well, alright, this is a very important question, because you see, I don't see these guys as bad guys. | ||
| I think that they believe, sincerely, that they're doing what has to be done to maintain the viability of civilization. | ||
| I think that a mindset ...became established right after World War II, and that good men, and again, I want to focus on the fact that they're men here, they're not men and women, because that was not the way it was done in those days. | ||
| They became privy to such extraordinary information in the wake of such a devastating global holocaust that they really felt that they couldn't dump that on the American people and the rest of the world. | ||
| I mean, it would be like shell shock. | ||
| And so for very good reasons, they began this policy. | ||
| And what I think has happened is they have become entrapped and ensnared in a policy which is long since out of date. | ||
| And in terms of their patriotism, it's now working in the other direction. | ||
| The fact is that the planet is going to hell in a handbasket and we desperately need these technologies. | ||
| We need a thorough understanding of the physics and a way to apply it To both the energy problem, the environmental problem. | ||
| I saw a program tonight, a few hours ago, that the ozone hole is getting bigger and bigger and bigger. | ||
| There are ways to solve the ozone problem if you were to put satellites in orbit and put this kind of technology on it and basically make ozone. | ||
| You know, to replace the ozone that chlorofluorohydrocarbons have destroyed. | ||
| I've heard they actually have plans to do that and that it could, by conventional aircraft even, be distributed. | ||
| Yeah, or you could use a variation of SDI. | ||
| I mean, all that hardware and billions and billions of dollars worth of stuff that we built under SDI for which we're not going to need it now because there is no Soviet Union. | ||
| You know, you put a few high-tech chemical lasers in Earth orbit, you fire beams tangentially in the ultraviolet tuned to the specific bands where ozone is produced from oxygen. | ||
| In other words, what we need is for people to come clean. | ||
| And what's really necessary is for there to be a kind of an airing of new ideas. | ||
| When a group of people get so insular and so protective and so wrapped up in the problem | ||
| that they only talk to themselves. | ||
| You know, Timothy Goode talked about this as the above top secret. | ||
| Right. | ||
| How many people do you know that can keep a secret? | ||
| There cannot be all that many people keeping this secret. | ||
| And if there are very few people and they're old people and they're working with old ideas, | ||
| no matter how good and relevant the ideas were in 1947, to pick a date, those ideas | ||
| are out of date now. | ||
| No matter what we're facing, let's let people in on it because frankly, the strength of | ||
| this country was built on the idea that people are sovereign, that people have good ideas, | ||
| that the people need to be served. | ||
| By their representatives working for them, not the other way around. | ||
| Richard, is it your view that the people who have this technology and information would allow the world literally to die, or the world's energy to dry up, or the world's ozone to finally disappear, or whatever other tragedy lays ahead, without giving us this new technology? | ||
| Would they let that happen, Richard? | ||
| And if so, why? | ||
| I think they're playing a very... | ||
| Dicey game. | ||
| I think they think they can manage it. | ||
| But remember, Henry Kissinger thought he could manage Vietnam. | ||
| Robert McNamara thought he could manage, you know, graduated escalation. | ||
| A lot of very bright people around Kennedy, you know, who brought in the best and the brightest, as Halberstam said, sold us down the river, not because they were bad people, but because they were good people who didn't listen to outside ideas. | ||
| We have history over and over again where a small, incestuous, ingrown group ...does dumb things. | ||
| Not because they're dumb, not because they're evil, not because they're bad, but because they simply don't have enough talent. | ||
| There needs to be an infusion of new talent, new thinking, and a little democracy in this, for God's sake. | ||
| Otherwise, we really are in trouble, and that's what I'm working with our project to try to bring about. | ||
| All right. | ||
| Wild Card Line 2, good evening. | ||
| You're on the air with Richard Hoagland. | ||
| Hello? | ||
| Hello, sir. | ||
| Yes, sir. | ||
| Yes, turn your radio off, please. | ||
| Remember to do that, everybody. | ||
| We have a delay system. | ||
| All right, you're on the air. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Uh, did you want to read in that fax which was sent to you? | |
| Uh, what fax is that? | ||
|
unidentified
|
One regarding Vincent Foster. | |
| Uh, no, I don't have it with me. | ||
| Is there anything you want to say about it? | ||
|
unidentified
|
No, I was going to read it. | |
| Uh, read the fax? | ||
|
unidentified
|
Mm. | |
| Uh, why don't you just give us a sense of it? | ||
|
unidentified
|
Um, well, basically, it was a fax sent, as I said, at, uh, 4.52 p.m., um, at the exit to Fort Darcy, Virginia. | |
| All right, sir. | ||
| for the car or a van stopped in nineteen ninety two chrysler sedan | ||
| and the driver was alone in the sedan was removed from the vehicle at gunpoint | ||
| and basically it says that he didn't kill himself but uh... | ||
| he was shot twice in the back of the head and sat on uh... | ||
| apartment should the police were called and uh... obviously the cover-up | ||
| uh... alright sir thank you uh... so there you go a little backup for what you said uh... | ||
| Let me make a comment. | ||
| The reason I mentioned Paul Southgate, and something that caught my attention, is how many people do you know in a metropolitan area, let's say Las Vegas, who choose to commit suicide in that fashion? | ||
| Alright? | ||
| And then what are the odds that two people working for the same federal government Would choose to do it in the same way? | ||
| Choose to do it in the same way, two days apart. | ||
| Well, without your other dimensional physics, I don't think you could calculate it. | ||
| That's what gets me a little bit concerned that there may be more to this problem with Hubble than meets the eye, and who would have been in a better position to have found this out than a computer programmer who'd been with them from the beginning? | ||
| Indeed. | ||
| Remember, if you trip over an algorithm that says blur, And you know that algorithm is not supposed to be there. | ||
| What would you do? | ||
| Precisely. | ||
| Good point. | ||
| Wild Card Line 3, good evening. | ||
| You're on the air with Richard C. Hoagland. | ||
| Yeah, I wanted to... I have a question? | ||
| Sure, where are you, sir? | ||
| Las Vegas. | ||
| Well, you cannot call on this line from Las Vegas, but thank you. | ||
| Line 1, you're on the air with Richard C. Hoagland. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Yes, good evening. | |
| Good evening, Mr. Hoagland. | ||
| Boy, what a fascinating show. | ||
| It just seems to... | ||
| Mr. Hoagland's theories just seem to tie so many things that I know you wonder about and people like Bob Lazar wonder about. | ||
| It just seems like it really does tie into government and give a reason for the physical and economic control that I really feel is being held over our heads. | ||
| I'm wondering if a lot of the funding for Today's research, things that you seem to say somebody has been suppressing a part of Maxwell's equations. | ||
| And I'm wondering... Four out of 200 is not a part, it's most of them. | ||
| And the critical force space dimensions are part of them. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Okay, well, you got me there. | |
| I'm wondering, who is holding back the funds? | ||
| Is this the small elite group you're talking about? | ||
| And do you really feel that they have links with, like, the trilaterals and that there is some type of world plan for world domination? | ||
| I know there's a veritable alphabet soup out there of people trying conspiracy. | ||
| And what I'm trying to do is stick to what we can prove. | ||
| And what we can prove is that a hundred years ago, some very bright people began looking at a physics that if we had followed that path, if we'd not gotten ourselves trapped in relativity, If we had not dismissed the four-dimensional terms in Maxwell, if we'd taken seriously the mathematical topologies, and we're talking published, reviewed science, all right? | ||
| We would have gone down a very different road, and we'd have starships tonight, boys and girls. | ||
| You know, Las Vegas would not be the gambling center of the United States, it would be the gambling center of the galaxy, all right? | ||
| We didn't do that. | ||
| And my question, in hindsight, now knowing there are a set of artificial structures on a planet called Mars, that your space agency does not want you to see, as | ||
| documented by Stan McDaniel, I ask myself, what would happen if history had been | ||
| different, and when are we going to grow up and take control of our | ||
| destiny and make it different? | ||
|
unidentified
|
Amazing. | |
| All right, sir. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Also, one thing, something that Linda brought up the other night, | |
| the body count around Clinton seems to go up and up. | ||
| Thanks. | ||
| Have a good evening. | ||
| Thank you. | ||
| Thank you very much. | ||
| It's true. | ||
| I had a guest on my syndicated program the other night, Linda Thompson, who's produced a videotape called Waco, The Big Lie. | ||
| And you might be interested in some of that information, Richard. | ||
| There is a body count surrounding President Clinton right now with regard to those who died at Waco, his bodyguards, Others who have died around the president and the body count is getting to be very significant, and some of that information probably ought to get, be given to you. | ||
| Um, let's keep moving here. | ||
| Wildcard, line 3, you're on the air with Richard Hoagland. | ||
| Hello. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Oh, yes, uh, Richard, yeah, um, Al, um, Bart, um, how about I'll be late, uh, getting into his, uh... Alright, that doesn't relate to this. | |
| Uh, thank you very much, sir. | ||
| No, no relationship here. | ||
| Line 2, you're on the air with Richard Hoagland. | ||
| Hello. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Yes, Dr. Hogan. | |
| It's mister, but thank you. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Yes, a couple questions and you can choose to answer either or both of them. | |
| First, how would you distinguish the quality of your interpretation of the NASA photographs to those observations made by, for example, Christopher Lowell of the canals on Mars? | ||
| And second, Not totally unrelated. | ||
| What would the minimum number of people in NASA be in this rogue group who would have to know about this project of turning off the observer and taking stealth photos? | ||
| In other words, do you envision cables going off into another room? | ||
| What about the legitimate people who would normally be working on this project? | ||
| Would they have to know about the rogue group? | ||
| Yeah, that's a good question. | ||
| Yeah, well, they're both good questions. | ||
| Let me take the first one. | ||
| There's no valid comparison between what our group has done. | ||
| And remember, our group consists of, you know, world-class, you know, people in image processing, geomorphology, and the like. | ||
| And I can give you a long list of who they are, or better yet, you can get my book, or you can see the videotapes, and see who they are. | ||
| We're looking at data that is digital data. | ||
| You know, these are not visual impressions. | ||
| Lowell did not take pictures. | ||
| Lowell was looking through a telescope, he and his colleagues at Flagstaff up north in Arizona, and they were drawing, you know, what they saw through the eyepiece. | ||
| These are images that were recorded not on one orbit, but on a minimum of two separate orbits, 35 days apart, two different sun angles, and the features down to the half a football field pixel resolution of the images clarifies the features that we're seeing at both sun angles. | ||
| And we have brought to bear an extraordinarily sophisticated range of technology. | ||
| Everything from shading to fractal analysis. | ||
| And people like Mark Carlotto, formerly at the Amnetic Sciences Corporation, has published his own papers and a very good book called Martian Enigmas, where he lays out in exhaustive and redundant detail how the image processing validates what we're seeing. | ||
| McDaniel in his report, you know, which you can get a copy of by calling our 800 number, Uh, which is 1-800-424-0031, as well as all the tapes and the books and everything. | ||
| McDaniel does the same thing. | ||
| He independently corroborates the methodology whereby we're doing real science. | ||
| And it's the kind of science that your space agency should have done, and probably, frankly, if you want my opinion, did do, but they never told anybody. | ||
| That's where they predicated going back with Mars Observer. | ||
| The camera, Mallon's camera, was placed on the spacecraft shortly after I brought our first results from the Independent Mars Investigation Team through David Webb to the Reagan White House. | ||
| You have to look at the trail of circumstantial evidence of who did what with whom to realize that Mars Observer was a mission that was not even designed to carry a camera, and suddenly they bolt on the best, you know, non-military camera that money can buy, built by Mike Malin. | ||
| They then set him up with an independent laboratory in a godforsaken place called San Diego, Hundreds of miles from the nearest planetary scientist, and they give him an independent access, without accountability, to sit on these images for six months, which has never been done in the history of NASA before. | ||
| I mean, how much do you need to know before it begins to smell a little bit like maybe somebody's not telling you the truth? | ||
| On the other question, how can five guys in a room run this thing without the rest of NASA knowing? | ||
| Because it was designed to be run by five guys in a room. | ||
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Wouldn't the others know about that? | |
| No. | ||
| What I think happened, if you want my bit-by-bit analysis, is that when the commands were uplinked on Friday evening... Remember, it was lost on Saturday. | ||
| On Friday evening, the last command loads were sent up from the ground, from JPL, to the spacecraft to update it on navigation. | ||
| It had everything on board in the computer it needed to know to put itself all by its lonesome in orbit around Mars. | ||
| Only after that did it, quote, disappear, boys and girls. | ||
| Then we're told that on Saturday night, 24 hours later, what NASA did was, as part of this program, command the radio on board to turn itself on during the next critical part of the sequence. | ||
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Now, this is absolutely cockamamie. | |
| Never in the history of NASA, in the history of anybody's space program, Has a spacecraft radio during a critical part of a mission been commanded to turn itself off? | ||
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Do you believe that the secret control room is on-site at NASA or JPL or something? | |
| It could be anywhere. | ||
| This thing could be run basically with a souped-up, you know, Mac, alright? | ||
| I'm kind of pushing it, but the level of sophistication, the level of technological diversification, | ||
| of democratization that this spacecraft embodied was so extraordinary that the experimenters | ||
| could literally run their experiments out of their dens with a home computer if they | ||
| wanted to. | ||
| In fact, they were going to run it out of their offices at their universities. | ||
| But for the first time in NASA's history, you were not going to have several hundred | ||
| guys in a room the size of a football field at the DSIF there at JPL running a mission | ||
| a few million miles away. | ||
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What is the percentage of the JPL people that you talk to who actually believe this is going on after they talk to you? | |
| Another good question. | ||
| Well, there's a lot of people who are very angry at us for even raising the suggestion. | ||
| It's like we're attacking the family. | ||
| Remember what I said about NASA Lewis, when I was very unhappy that certain things had happened over my presentation there. | ||
| And I was going to take it to the director and beyond, I was told by lower-down people at NASA Lewis, don't do that, let's keep it in the family. | ||
| You know, there's a feeling within NASA of the beleaguered agency, let's put the wagons in a circle. | ||
| So anytime you make an accusation like this, particularly if it comes through the press and doesn't come one-on-one, you know, you get people thinking you're attacking NASA. | ||
| What I'm attacking is the people who have hijacked NASA, And hijack the Constitution and hijack this mission again because they think they're serving a higher power. | ||
| They think they're protecting us from a fate worse than death. | ||
| At the National Press Club, I talked at some length about the so-called Brookings Report. | ||
| Art, are you familiar with this? | ||
| Yes, I'm semi-familiar with it, yes. | ||
| This is a document that we found in NASA's own files in several federal archives that was commissioned by the agency back in 1959. | ||
| When the ink was not even dry on its charter, basically looking outside NASA to several hundred independent consultants at top-flight universities and institutions designed to lay out a blueprint for what NASA should become. | ||
| Right. | ||
| And on page 215 and 216, it's very interesting in the document, it refers to the implications of the discovery of extraterrestrial life. | ||
| And what's amazing, when we discovered it, is that it talks very forthrightly That someday, in the solar system, NASA spacecraft might well discover artifacts left by intelligence on some other planet, and it lists three. | ||
| Mars, the Moon, and Venus. | ||
| It then discusses what NASA should do about such information, and it considers the possibility that it might never tell the American people because of the potentially devastating social consequences If this information were released willy-nilly or in an irresponsible fashion. | ||
| All right. | ||
| Thank you, caller. | ||
| That was a good call. | ||
| Have you contemplated that at all, Richard, the social implications of the release of the kind of information you've been talking about? | ||
| Of course. | ||
| Of course. | ||
| Well, I ask this of a lot of guests, Richard. | ||
| Suppose you had incontrovertible proof that all of this existed. | ||
| Would you release it? | ||
| Well, when you say all of this, remember, our team... The artifacts, Richard. | ||
| Just for now, the artifacts. | ||
| If you could prove that and lay it in front of the public, absolutely, would you hesitate? | ||
| Would you think about the social implications of what you were about to do, or would you just do it? | ||
| We have discussed the social consequences. | ||
| We have brought people on board the team, like Dr. John Wolfson, who was a psychologist at Cleveland State University, who was the founder of what's called PTSD. | ||
| That's post-traumatic stress disorder. | ||
| Right. | ||
| He served in Vietnam and he labored for 20 years to get, you know, the Veterans Administration and other, you know, medical authorities to understand that, you know, war had this horrific, horrible impact on men and women who went through the Vietnam experience and it now has a formal name. | ||
| It's called PTSD. | ||
| Well, when John and I met at a conference some years ago, I invited him to become one of our consultants and colleagues because he and I discussed What I call pre-traumatic stress disorder. | ||
| How do we prevent the kind of stresses that this kind of information would engender in the population at large? | ||
| And what he and I discussed, and many others have discussed on this project, is simply this. | ||
| When the founders of the Constitution were considering the grave questions of life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness, they didn't say, life, liberty, pursuit of happiness, but... | ||
| In other words, if this is all real art, if these are real decisions that we need to be making, then you can't treat adults as children. | ||
| You can't pretend that there are certain things they should not know, because what you've done is to abrogate the whole idea, the foundation of responsible, representative government. | ||
| You have got to include them in the decision-making process, particularly after 50-some years, and when, in terms of our data, and our data alone, The evidence is safely several million miles away and was abandoned half a million years ago. | ||
| There is no conceivable reason for keeping that kind of information secret other than once you open the door to this box, once you admit that extraterrestrials exist, then all of the other weirdness and shenanigans and hanky-panky and lies and deception that this government apparently has been involved in on the subject automatically fall out of the closet. | ||
| So, the problem is really much bigger than the artifact. | ||
| The problem is at the core of, do we live in a representative democracy, or has somebody hijacked the Constitution, and we're just along for the ride? | ||
| It's a big question. | ||
| It's a big question, Richard. | ||
| We're very short on time. | ||
| Why don't we leave it on the air with Richard, and see your headline. | ||
|
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Good evening. | |
| Good evening. | ||
|
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I would like to ask him where we can order these drinking tapes. | |
| Ah, good question. | ||
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Very simple. | |
| You dial up 1-800-424-0031. | ||
| Do it again, please. | ||
| 1-800-424-0031. | ||
| And you ask for the NASA briefing tape. | ||
| You ask for the UN briefing tape. | ||
| They're coded, by the way. | ||
| They're called Hoagland's Mars, Volume 1 and Volume 2. | ||
| And you want the extended version of Volume 2, because that has 24 minutes of the analysis of the STS-48 footage. | ||
| The interesting shuttle footage, Art? | ||
| Yes. | ||
| We now know it conforms exactly to what hyper-dimensional technology in vehicles should look like if NASA were ever to photograph them in Earth orbit, which NASA apparently did on that mission. | ||
| You can also get the McDaniel Report for that number. | ||
| You can get my book, The Monuments of Mars, The City on the Edge of Forever, which was updated last year. | ||
| And we're about to come out with Volume 3, because we've learned some more Uh, relating the physics to biology, which I think people are going to be very interested in. | ||
| And we're in the process of producing Volume 3 now. | ||
| And, uh, you know, that's basically the number to keep track of all of what we're doing. | ||
| All right, did you get that, ma'am? | ||
| Yes, I did. | ||
| Thank you very much. | ||
| 424-0031. | ||
| All right, thank you. | ||
| 1-800-424-0031. | ||
| Please, everybody, take it down, or I'll be getting calls for the next week. | ||
| All right, Richard, maybe one more. | ||
| Good evening. | ||
| From Jackie Gonzalez Hotel, you're on the air with Richard C. Hoagland. | ||
| Yes. | ||
| Is it true that the U.S. | ||
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military has a base on the moon? | |
| All right, thank you. | ||
| A lot of talk about that, Richard. | ||
| The moon and what we may or may not have up there. | ||
| What do you know about that? | ||
| I don't think so. | ||
| And I'll give you a very bottom line answer. | ||
| If this government, or any government, had been to the moon, or had been to Mars, they would have photographed the monuments of Mars long before the Viking mission in 1976, right? | ||
| Sure. | ||
| And then, would they ever have allowed the public space agency to A. take the pictures or B. to make them public? | ||
| Answer, of course, has to be no. | ||
| So I see all of that as another wonderful set of levels of disinformation. | ||
| Remember, if you can't keep something secret, You put it out there in such a weird, twisted way that nobody in their right mind who has car payments, you know, in school, trying to make a living, trying to earn a buck, ever had the time to figure it out. | ||
| Richard, we're out of time. | ||
| It's not enough time. | ||
| I could have used you for hour upon hour, and I'm going to see if I can arrange that. | ||
| I want to thank you for being our guest. | ||
| A wonderful appearance. | ||
| Thank you, Art. | ||
| Take care. | ||
| Richard C. Hoagland, and wasn't that fascinating? | ||
| All right, well, that's it. | ||
| I'm sorry. | ||
| The clock says we've got to go. | ||
| For those of you who wish to get hold of me by amateur radio, at about one o'clock in the morning, I generally show up on 3857, 3857 in the 75 meter band. | ||
| That'll be about one o'clock this morning. | ||
| Other than that, I'm sorry, we've got to go. | ||
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Thank you and good evening. | |
| The preceding program was made possible by a grant from the Bigelow Foundation. | ||
| This has been Area 2000, a program that introduces our listeners to the scientific approach for discussion of two particular subjects, UFOs and near-death and after-death experiences. | ||
| To contact the Bigelow Foundation, please call during the week Between 9 a.m. | ||
| and 5 p.m., area code 702-456-1606. | ||
| Ask for Angela Thompson. | ||
| That's area code 702-456-1606. | ||
| And be with us next Sunday evening at 8 for another edition of Area 2000. |
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