Oct. 17, 1993 - Art Bell
01:48:11
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| The following program is made possible by a grant from the Bigelow Foundation. | ||
| Welcome to Area 2000. | ||
| This program introduces our listeners to the scientific approach to discussion of two particular subjects, UFOs and near-death and after-death experiences. | ||
| To contact the Bigelow Foundation during the work week, call Angela Thompson between 9 a.m. | ||
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and 5 p.m. | |
| at area code 702-456-1606. | ||
| That's Angela Thompson at area code 702-456-1606. | ||
| That's Angela Thompson at area code 702-456-1606. | ||
| And now, Area 2000. | ||
| Welcome to Area 2000. | ||
| I'm Art Bell, and it is going to be a very serious program this morning. | ||
| It is, of course, every week, but this week, in addition to George, who is back, George Knapp, our roving journalist, and Linda Howe, who's got a special guest herself, we'll be having Bud Hopkins as our guest. | ||
| And most of you should know, Bud, Missing Time, Intruders, two best-seller list books to his credit, and a whole lot more. | ||
| So, without any further wait, let's get started, shall we? | ||
| To, I guess first, George Knapp, who's back after being on an airplane last week, lost in airspace someplace or another. | ||
| Good evening, George. | ||
| Welcome. | ||
| Good evening, Art, and good evening, listeners. | ||
| A lot of stuff to cover tonight. | ||
| First of all, my apologies for not being with you last week, but I was winging my way back from an important UFO conference held in Connecticut at the time. | ||
| I get a chance to attend about a dozen of these events each year. | ||
| At these things, you often hear speculation or predictions about big events, you know, something major is about to happen, that sort of thing. | ||
| For the most part, as you know, our such predictions fall flat. | ||
| No alien landings, no government announcements, no end of the world kind of thing. | ||
| But at this one, and in others I've attended recently, I've heard more and more pessimism From researchers whom I respect than ever before. | ||
| I mean, solid, well-connected people are quite frankly scared, visibly, physically upset by something that they feel is about to happen. | ||
| A few of these researchers have been told things, but are unwilling to talk about it even in private conversations. | ||
| Among those who work on this topic full-time, I think the feeling is almost universal that we're all in for some sort of a major joke. | ||
| And it's more than just kind of an end of the millennium retrospection. | ||
| It's a real and palpable perception based on informed sources in some cases, gut instinct, and the fact that the people I'm talking about work with this material every day. | ||
| George, when? | ||
| Well, that's a good question, you know, because we've all heard these sort of predictions before, and it doesn't seem like they ever come true, but I've never felt it quite like this. | ||
| as i said almost universal among the people who uh... whom whom i greatly respect and i think linda and and | ||
| bud would certainly have | ||
| probably better insight on that tonight it could be soon i'll tell you about that in just a second | ||
| it's uh... | ||
| i know when they have heard the same for a long way from has similar | ||
| perceptions and i i'd really like to figure her thoughts on whether she's getting the same sort | ||
| of feedback and and but uh... absolutely has the same sort of thing uh... | ||
| possibly from the abductees themselves. | ||
| What could the big event be? | ||
| I think much of the current attention that I heard back there is focused on an astronomical event slated for next July. | ||
| Several asteroid chunks, you've heard this, are going to slam into the planet Jupiter. | ||
| Jupiter is a big planet. | ||
| That's an understatement. | ||
| But these are also Major League Asteroids, and they're sort of almost in synchronicity. | ||
| Even mainstream scientists say this is going to be a spectacular celestial event. | ||
| Could it possibly affect Earth, considering the vast distances between them and us? | ||
| That would seem remote, but a lot of people are wondering if something is afoot. | ||
| One of those is Richard Hoagland, known for his groundbreaking work about the so-called Fates on Mars. | ||
| I had some lengthy conversations with Hoagland at this Connecticut conference. | ||
| He is imbued with the same sense of foreboding about the future, especially as it relates to this pending Jupiter event. | ||
| Now, Hoagland has extensive sources, as you know, within NASA. | ||
| He isn't at all reluctant, though, in saying that something truly nasty is in the works. | ||
| We'll see. | ||
| Okay, but it is all foreboding. | ||
| In other words, this could not be a good event. | ||
| Everybody's concerned. | ||
| Oh, that's pretty much. | ||
| I mean, Colin Andrews, the crop circle researcher who has probably the most optimistic view on the whole alien-human interaction, even he feels that something big is coming. | ||
| Well, we've got several major researchers this morning on the program, so we'll ask. | ||
| Good, I hope you do. | ||
| Of more immediate interest is Richard Hoagland's information about this ill-fated Mars Observer. | ||
| Now, he's the guy that did the groundbreaking work on this. | ||
| He has all kinds of sources within NASA, and he is convinced the loss of this craft was not accidental, | ||
| which a lot of us suspect, that there was some sort of a hidden purpose behind the mission, | ||
| which is certainly possible, and that the observer, he says, is going to spring back to life after the first of the year. | ||
| That's his prediction. | ||
| It's a long, complicated explanation about why it's going to happen, but if it does, you'll know where you heard it | ||
| from Hoagland. | ||
| And I understand Linda has a guest who may be able to shed light on this as well. | ||
| That's right. | ||
| On the subject of Mars and predictions, remember the predictions by these former government psychics. | ||
| We talked about them a couple times on the program about this big event that was supposed to happen in August in New Mexico. | ||
| Well, although nothing of the sort materialized, the folks who made this prediction now say The Mars Observer incident was directly related to their predicted event, and that the New Mexico part of the story has been delayed by five or six weeks. | ||
| The chief remote viewer who used to work for the military, a guy named Ed Dames, predicts that a very high authority, whom he says is higher than President Clinton, not a whole lot of those going around, will make an announcement of some sort in the near future. | ||
| Again, listener caution is advised when evaluating the credibility of predictions like this, but we will certainly keep you posted. | ||
| The two-month-long Las Vegas Library UFO Lecture Series concluded last night with a talk from researcher Bill Moore, who has done a lot of good work on Roswell and MJ-12. | ||
| We don't have the final crowd count, but library folks are elated with the public response to the series. | ||
| Nearly every event drew a full house. | ||
| and the district has already decided to do it again next year. | ||
| I had two chances this week to address some of these library audiences, | ||
| and for the most part the questions were intelligent, the discussion was healthy, | ||
| it's apparent that people are really hungry for credible information on this topic, | ||
| and I think your show, Art, is evidence of that. | ||
| I want to give congratulations to the library people for having the courage to put on a | ||
| program like this because you know how much skepticism there is in local media, | ||
| and luckily they didn't get bashed too badly. | ||
| You know, George, I wonder if the general public, and maybe we'll find out this morning, has the same building sense of something imminent. | ||
| I sure feel that, you know, traveling around the country and doing stories and going to | ||
| conferences, I really do feel it. | ||
| And some of you have to chalk up the general paranoia and, you know, we've heard these | ||
| predictions as I mentioned over and over again, but there's a building sense that I try to | ||
| resist it as a journalist. | ||
| You don't want to get into that sort of a framework, but you hear it again and again and again, and it sort of plays with your mind. | ||
| Do you think you have that same feeling, or do you think you're being infected by those who say they have it? | ||
| I think the latter is the idea. | ||
| I don't have that sense, but I'm getting it after hearing it again and again from people whom I greatly respect. | ||
| A few weeks ago we hinted on this program that we might have some definitive evidence concerning the Bob Lazar Area 51 alien technology story. | ||
| Well, this week that evidence was made public for the first time during this library lecture, and this will mark the first time it's been broadcast anywhere. | ||
| In a nutshell, this is it, Art. | ||
| A few months ago, a company in California purchased some photos taken by a Soviet satellite in the summer of 1988. | ||
| This is just a little bit before Bob Lazar started working, allegedly started working, at S4 Papoose. | ||
| Photos in question were targeted at Groom and Papoose Lakes. | ||
| Here in Nevada. | ||
| Bob Lazar said he saw flying saucers, alien technology, stored and tested at Papoose Lake. | ||
| A story which no one will confirm, and which, as you know, a lot of people refuse to believe. | ||
| Well, this photo, as amazing as it might sound, apparently caught a large, metallic, disc-shaped craft flying above Papoose Lake. | ||
| I've seen this thing. | ||
| Some former NASA imagery specialists have seen it. | ||
| They have analyzed it. | ||
| It is a big, fat, flying saucer on film above the area where Lazar said they were being flown. | ||
| Wow. | ||
| That really does earn a wow. | ||
| Do you have a copy of it, George? | ||
| I do. | ||
| You do? | ||
| And it'll blow you away. | ||
| I would like to see that, George. | ||
| I'd be glad to show it to you. | ||
| I would really like to see that. | ||
| Some additional blow-ups are being processed, which allegedly, and I say that only because I haven't seen this part of it myself, they show roads which lead into the hills that are adjacent to Papoose, where Bob said the hangars were, which stored the... There is no question about the geography? | ||
| Oh, none at all. | ||
| None at all. | ||
| George, is there any chance you can get this published in the local paper, or better? | ||
| Well, I don't own the photos. | ||
| I've been shown them. | ||
| I've been allowed to talk to it, but I don't own them. | ||
| I think there's some corporate interest. | ||
| As you know, Art, there's a movie company that wants to do some stuff on Bob, and they're the ones that forked over the money, because this is an expensive proposition to come up with the photos and to get them analyzed. | ||
| Boy, that's really serious. | ||
| When you said evidence, you weren't kidding. | ||
| Uh, you say you've had this analyzed? | ||
| Well, they have had this analyzed by some former NASA people, and they are as mystified as anyone. | ||
| They say what it appears to be is a flying saucer. | ||
| Additional blow-ups, as I said, are being processed, and they allegedly show roads which lead into these hills adjacent to Papoose, and buses parked outside the area where Bob said he worked. | ||
| Now, the reason this is really important is I have two congressional sources who've been up to that area, and who have flown over Papoose in the last couple of months. | ||
| Uh, specifically looking for evidence of any kind of programs or hangers or anything else. | ||
| There's nothing there. | ||
| There is absolutely nothing there right now. | ||
| And they've been told that there was nothing there in the past. | ||
| Well, these photos, I think, will clearly demonstrate that there was something there before, and that there has been some sort of a cover-up, and I hope someone in Congress gets mad at it, because someone clearly is lying. | ||
| I have a couple of other items, but I think it's probably more important to get on to your guest tonight, because concerning him, he was also at this Connecticut event that I attended last week, and I'll tell you, this is a guy you can't get enough of. | ||
| I've heard Bud probably ten times, I've interviewed him, we've had numerous private conversations, I think he's probably The single most important figure in ufology today, a really good and honest man. | ||
| I can't wait to hear it. | ||
| All right. | ||
| It's been wonderful, George. | ||
| And somehow or another, I would very much like to get to see those. | ||
| Are you going to get copies made yourself? | ||
| Well, I don't have the permission to do that. | ||
| I certainly would have permission to show them to you, Art, because I think it's important for you. | ||
| All right. | ||
| I will contact you. | ||
| Thank you, George. | ||
| That's George Knapp. | ||
| Our Roving Journalist, and this morning he had some pretty serious news. | ||
| And once again, what he just revealed was that there are Soviet photos, and this is big news, folks. | ||
| Soviet photos taken of the Groom Lake, Papoose Lake area, precisely where Bob Lazar said there were disks. | ||
| purporting to show that there is in fact a disc in the photo and the buses and the roads leading in and out and the facility itself that is not there now. | ||
| That would be a very, very serious piece of evidence. | ||
| George Knapp. | ||
| Now, to Denver, Colorado, or Boulder, Colorado, I guess, more accurately, and Linda Howe this evening, And yet another glimpse into yet another reality and her guest this morning, Dan Dresen. | ||
| So let's go to Boulder, Colorado and say good evening, folks. | ||
| Hi. | ||
| Hi. | ||
| I think one of the unusual features about tonight is that neither you nor George nor I had a chance to talk today about what we were going to discuss tonight. | ||
| And yet, earlier this afternoon, I was in a place where some of the astronomers now meeting at the University of Colorado on a planetary conference were, and I talked with two of them, one from Poland and one from France, and the issue, one of the issues was this event next summer in which a comet-like body followed by asteroids is supposed to plunge into Jupiter. | ||
| And I asked them, as astronomers, what they are expecting the consequence of this event to be, and their unanimous response was, well, there will be nothing in the solar system, because Jupiter is so huge, and they used the analogy that it would be like throwing something into a huge feather pillow, as they said, and it will absorb whatever this is that's coming. | ||
| That is the astronomer's point of view today in Boulder at this large planetary conference. | ||
| Whether or not there is any other information about this event next summer, I don't know. | ||
| But obviously we are coming up against a phenomenon that is real. | ||
| It is physical. | ||
| It was reported in Science this week. | ||
| It's been reported in various national news media. | ||
| So, between now and the middle of next summer, we can at least begin to gain more information about it. | ||
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How big? | |
| Do you have any idea how large these objects are? | ||
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No. | |
| The only description that I have heard is a comet-like body that is preceding a series of 17 or 19 asteroid-like, which would be rocky bodies. | ||
| Uh, each one, uh, would be directed into, uh, the gaseous, uh, planet of Jupiter. | ||
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Whether anything like this has happened before, I don't know. | |
| Maybe no one knows for sure. | ||
| But at least in terms of the scientists meeting here, uh, today, uh, there's never been, but I'm interested. | ||
| They were trying to monitor what happened. | ||
| They had just a conversation this afternoon, though. | ||
| They're not expecting there to be any impact on the Earth, and they said that with some strength. | ||
| George talked about a strong sense of foreboding that seems either to be connected to that or separate from it, but he's getting it, he said, from just about everybody. | ||
| Are you getting that same sense, Linda? | ||
| I would not say foreboding as much as a sense from some of the abductees I know and other research colleagues. | ||
| I think everybody has a sense that something major is going to happen in the next possible year. | ||
| No, the details. | ||
| I know that some of the abductees are talking about having a sense of something major happening, but whether or not it is going to be of some kind of a global catastrophic impact nature, which the Hoagland hypothesis would present, or it means that there may possibly be the beginning of the opening of this very difficult story, that we are not alone in the universe, that there are other intelligences, and we may be finally on the brink uh... in covering some of these intelligences in another | ||
| way right linda before we get to your guest tonight | ||
| i'm glad you want to ask you about what george said did you hear what he said | ||
| about the soviet photos of papu's uh... papu's lake and the the dist that he's got on uh... | ||
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yeah i guess in a photograph right in uh... about | |
| the only thing one can say anymore is that we have uh... the kind of virtual reality that is capable on | ||
| computers these days it is It's so hard to know what the source of photographs are. | ||
| People, unfortunately, can concoct many things and pass them off for money or fame or whatever. | ||
| Sure. | ||
| A, that they are X, Y, or Z. The issue here, and George may have that, is that there needs to be some kind of substantial proof about what the source of a photograph is, how legitimate it is, And right now, until there's more information forthcoming, it sounds like this is a very sensational and dramatic looking photograph, and I hope that we will learn more about its source in the details. | ||
| And this whole issue of other intelligences involved with our planet brings me to the subject that a friend of mine in Boulder has been involved with the research of the unusual Martian features for the last decade. | ||
| He has worked with Richard Hoagland, the author and investigator of many of the anomalies on Mars, including that enormous, mile-long, 1,500-foot-high space feature. | ||
| And he was the editor of a book that has been out for a couple of years, beautiful, called The Martian Enigmas, by Mark Carlotto, who specializes in digital imaging and has been doing a lot of the photograph work on the NASA fringe. | ||
| And for people who may not be aware, just very briefly, in the end of the 70s we had an orbiter that took two frames that showed a very unusual, what people more conservatively call an unusual Martian feature. | ||
| And it looks like an enormous face and there were other odd features around it. | ||
| Richard Hoagland and others have speculated that this is the archaeological vestiges of what was once upon a time a civilization on Mars. | ||
| With me is Dan Dresen, who has edited this book with Mark Carlotto, has worked with Richard Hoagland, and has been involved with this whole issue. | ||
| Is there any hard evidence to support the speculation that somebody, somewhere, is still receiving secret imaging from the Mars orbiter, or is it really dead in space? | ||
| Either orbiting completely turned off around Mars, or has it gone sailing off into space? | ||
| And I'd like to introduce Dan Drayton, and we'll start off with the whole issue of is there any evidence to support the speculation that there are secret signals coming from the Mars Observer? | ||
| Dan, good evening. | ||
| Good evening. | ||
| How do you do? | ||
| Just fine. | ||
| Well, tell us what you can about the Explorer. | ||
| We're all curious about it. | ||
| Well, nobody that I know of has any definitive evidence, at least none that they're willing to make public at this point in time. | ||
| But the circumstantial evidence is quite intriguing, and the timing is quite intriguing. | ||
| I don't know if you're familiar with Stan McDaniel, a professor at Sonoma State University in California, who recently released a paper known now as the McDaniel Report, which has made quite a few waves, both within NASA and around the whole Mars investigation. | ||
| McDaniel's report essentially takes NASA to task Very firmly for the false statements they've made to the public and to Congress over the past 15 or so years with regard to the Martian investigation. | ||
| It also dissects the game plan for Mars Observer. | ||
| So in other words, it tries to lay out a pattern of of lies or deception over many years, not just with regard to this latest thing, but over many years? | ||
| Essentially, in a nutshell, NASA has claimed over the years to have photographs which disconfirm the existence of the Martian face and these other objects. | ||
| They have claimed time and time again, and they have said this both publicly and in private correspondence with members of the public and members of Congress, They've claimed that this photograph exists, although they have never named this photograph. | ||
| Each of the Viking photographs were numbered. | ||
| They've never produced this photograph that they claim to have for 15 years, and recently have as good as admitted that it doesn't exist. | ||
| Further, NASA have also claimed over the years to have exhaustively studied these objects, and that the results of these exhaustive investigations have been that The top experts in the field consider these things to be nothing more than illusions and tricks of light and shadow. | ||
| Well, as it turns out, there were no such investigations. | ||
| The verdict that these were illusions were basically the personal opinions of a very few NASA geologists. | ||
| That's a little puzzling. | ||
| On the one hand, they're saying they don't exist. | ||
| On the other hand, they're saying we investigated them and they're nothing. | ||
| Right. | ||
| So there's something there. | ||
| Oh, of course there's something there. | ||
| It's been a bit of a shell game, actually. | ||
| And one of my personal interests is in the whole psychology of belief, disbelief, propaganda, debunkery, and so forth. | ||
| And I found this entire case to be a goldmine, sort of a textbook case of, in a way, people living in different worlds. | ||
| You've got the independent investigation team, Dick Hoagland and, going way back to 1979, Vince DiPietro, Greg Molinar, Then Mark Carlotto, Errol Taurer and myself and several others, we have watched this thing develop from what was essentially a subjective impression of a face way back in the 70s when these photos first came in, into quite a detailed and elaborate series of analyses of these pictures. | ||
| Mathematical, fractal, cultural, These photographs, and there's more than two by the way, there's probably a half dozen in total that are in question here. | ||
| And this is an investigation which NASA basically does not acknowledge ever took place. | ||
| The amount of energy expended in propaganda in place of science has been enormous here. | ||
| Probably the best account of the history of this whole affair is in this document known as the McDaniel Report. | ||
| One of the interesting things about the history of this report is that NASA received a copy of it probably a day and a half before the apparent loss of Mars Observer. | ||
| And this particular edition of the report contained a bit of an expose on NASA's strategy. | ||
| You see, Mars Observer was supposed to go into orbit, undergone its proper orbital adjustments and technical checkouts, And then started photography sometime in November or December of this year. | ||
| That was the Explorer, wasn't it? | ||
| Mars Observer. | ||
| Oh, okay. | ||
| That's what went out on August 21st and lost signal and study and all this speculation about whether or not the signal was really lost or if it is out in space somewhere. | ||
| Right. | ||
| What the McDaniel Report pointed out was that NASA had recently published a revised edition of their protocols. | ||
| Which provided an unexplained week and a half to two weeks of time during which Mars Observer could have photographed these areas on Mars, sent back the photos, and then perhaps political decisions could have been made about what to do about them. | ||
| So you're suggesting, then, that they got some early pictures before the orbital maneuvers, they found something shocking, and did something to the Observer? | ||
| We're suggesting that they already know what's there, and that Mars Observe would have allowed them to get a much, much closer look than we've had the opportunity to have in the past, and that they wanted to have the first glimpse to themselves, so to speak, and then decide what to do about it. | ||
| And this report, which made public for the first time NASA's apparent strategy, was received by NASA on the, I believe, on the 20th, and on the 21st the spacecraft was lost, immediately after receiving its programmed instructions for orbital insertion. | ||
| Now, Dan, what do you think is there that is so shocking that they couldn't tell us about it? | ||
| Well, I can tell you what my own opinion is after being involved in this study for over ten years now. | ||
| I think that we have, in fact I'm going to quote Stan McDaniel on this. | ||
| from the back page of his report, and he says, whether the objects on Mars turn out to be alien artifacts | ||
| or simply the most stupendous constellation of geological coincidences in history, | ||
| eventually the human race must face these questions. | ||
| When you really, really look into this material, not just superficially, but in depth. | ||
| So then, if we know the history of the investigation... Okay, so Dan, if we... Layer upon layer upon layer of, of confirming evidence. | ||
| Alright, so if we presume then that these are, as he suspects they might be, evidence of an alien race, then we have to imagine that NASA has concluded we would be so disturbed by that information that we'd all go crazy and wouldn't be able to handle it, and so they're keeping it secret. | ||
| Is that probable motivation? | ||
| Certainly a possible motivation. | ||
| We know, for example, that in 1960, a report entitled Proposed Studies on the Implications of Peaceful Space Activities for Human Affairs was delivered to the Chairman of NASA's Committee on Long-Range Studies. | ||
| It was prepared under contract. | ||
| And the report outlines the need to investigate the possible social consequences of any discovery of extraterrestrial intelligence. | ||
| And also to consider whether such a discovery should be kept from the public in order to avoid political change, possible devastating effects on scientists due to the discovery that many of their own most cherished theories could be at risk, and so forth. | ||
| Now this certainly does not concur with scientific method as I learned it, and as most of us understand it. | ||
| But we also know that science and politics are very much interwoven. | ||
| All right. | ||
| In the real world. | ||
| Dan, stand by just one moment, please. | ||
| I've got to do a quick station identification. | ||
| We'll be right back to Linda Howe. | ||
| And Dan Dresen, you're listening to Area 2000. | ||
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From Jackie Gons Pleasure downtown, this is KDWN Las Vegas. | |
| Good evening, everybody. | ||
| I'm Art Bell. | ||
| We're running a little late, uh, to Vought and Hopkins. | ||
| We'll get to them shortly. | ||
| I've got Linda Howe and Dan Grayson in Boulder, Colorado. | ||
| The subject is the Mars Observer mission, what might be on Mars, and back to them. | ||
| Folks, you're back on the air once again. | ||
| The issue here was what possibly could be the motivation for a policy of government silence and all this, and Is it just to prevent public panic, or is it to keep the social, financial, and other status quo in place? | ||
| And if that is the reason, how are we going to move on with getting on to the fact that we're not alone in the universe? | ||
| And here's Dan. | ||
| That's a rather large question. | ||
| I sort of, I view this whole process, I tend to take a long view of the whole process. | ||
| I mean we have, we live in a world that's We're balanced on the edge of great change and particularly great changes of perspective in terms of our own self image. | ||
| Who are we in the universe? | ||
| Did we evolve as sort of freakish creations on this isolated rock? | ||
| Or are we part of a much larger network of life? | ||
| And this has implications in terms of our history. | ||
| We're beginning to suspect, or some of us are, that someone stole our history. | ||
| Where's our real history? | ||
| Why has it been kept from us? | ||
| Zechariah Sitchin and others are uncovering some very provocative evidence that perhaps | ||
| the general belief that we're alone in the universe is perhaps a purposeful thing and | ||
| that many human institutions down through the centuries have evolved and had as their | ||
| purpose keeping us quarantined in a sense. | ||
| There are various opinions and perspectives on whether this is a good or a bad thing or | ||
| just what happened. | ||
| I find this whole field fascinating and I find my own process of discovery and self-questioning | ||
| to be really rich. | ||
| The only other question I have with reference to the Observer is if they had a pretty good | ||
| idea of what was there and that they didn't want us to see it, why spend the billion dollars | ||
| and launch it in the first place? | ||
| I'm not sure they had any choice. | ||
| And I'm also not sure that the forces within NASA and other institutions are all that monolithic. | ||
| My impression is, and this is reinforced by having been exposed to many points of view in this field, that there are varying points of view within our institutions and within government. | ||
| And that there are those who want the truth revealed, those who do not want the truth revealed, and many people in the middle. | ||
| And that what's going on now is a process whereby all this is being sorted out. | ||
| And we'll obviously be shaken out in the next few years, because the dam's gonna break sooner or later. | ||
| Good enough, Dan. | ||
| It's certainly been good speaking with you. | ||
| And Linda? | ||
| Yes? | ||
| Do you have anything more for us this evening? | ||
| I'm eager for you to transition on to Bud, who clearly is dealing with another aspect of the whole issue of are we involved with another intelligence on this planet, And what would the motive be for the UFO abduction syndrome and all of this? | ||
| All right, then, to Bud, we will go. | ||
| And I thank both you and Dan for being with us this evening. | ||
| Thanks, Art. | ||
| Thank you. | ||
| We'll have to meet you next Sunday. | ||
| Both of you take care. | ||
| Dan Grayson and Linda Howe and her glimpse into another reality. | ||
| And now, very quickly, because we're short on time already, Bud Hopkins probably is, as George advertised, I would say the leading ufologist right now in the nation. | ||
| UFO investigator, author of Intruders, author of Missing Time. | ||
| And he had his own sighting back a very long time ago, in 1964, and that got him started. | ||
| And that got him started investigating, and then finally himself writing. | ||
| He founded the Intruders Foundation, a not-for-profit organization devoted to research and public education concerning UFO abduction phenomenon. | ||
| He has been a guest just about everywhere, including this program previously, but today's show, Good Morning America, Joan Rivers, my line, Oprah Winfrey. | ||
| Um, he's been everywhere. | ||
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2020, Larry King, Jenny Jones, Night Watch, Unsolved Mysteries. | |
| Um, he had a magazine in front of there, Rita Tillman. | ||
| I could go on and list his on forever. | ||
| And, um, instead, I'm just going to go directly all the way to New York and Bud Hopkins. | ||
| Bud Hopkins, good evening. | ||
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Good evening, Larry. | |
| Oh, we've got a good one. | ||
| Excellent. | ||
| Glad to have you. | ||
| The audience needs to know a little history. | ||
| I was supposed to connect with you down in Texas. | ||
| Right. | ||
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But we got all turned around and you got the wrong day and then we got the wrong time. | |
| But here you are back in New York. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| All right. | ||
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You've been able to listen to quite a bit this evening. | |
| Any reaction to what you've heard so far? | ||
| Well, I'll start first with what George was saying about the sense of foreboding that many investigators have. | ||
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Exactly. | |
| Uh, Ed, what I have to say, and my feelings about this, the first point about it is that, uh, after, uh, having conducted, uh, this investigation that we did with the Harper Organization, uh, a poll looking into, uh, roughly 70% of the American people, we think, have had UFO attraction experiences, and we found this, uh, abstract number of people who seem to have had these experiences. | ||
| At the time, we came up with a rough guess of one in every 50 Americans. | ||
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Higher than that. | |
| Now, what that means, of course, is that whatever is going on in Mars, right here and now on this planet, right in Nevada and Nebraska and New York City and whatnot, there are abductions taking place as we speak. | ||
| The numbers would imply that it has to be that frequent. | ||
| So, something absolutely enormous is going on on this planet, and the point is, in terms of the foreboding that people feel a sense of something about to happen, rather than there being necessarily some single, solitary event, what's been happening is that more and more and more people are coming to realize that this crazy stuff is actually going on. | ||
| People are having these experiences. | ||
| And yet, it's amassing itself, so really, this can't be kept under wraps for much longer. | ||
| When, do you think? | ||
| I guess we're talking about an astrological event in July. | ||
| Next Alive is coming next July. | ||
| Well, I was talking about the astrological event, which may or may not have much of an effect on us. | ||
| I'm talking about the very fact that the evidence, as it comes together, supporting the idea | ||
| of an alien intelligence operating within our world and affecting our lives in a very profound way, | ||
| abducting people from childhood on for some kind of ongoing genetic experiment, | ||
| which implies the production of some sort of hybrid life form | ||
| between them and us. | ||
| This is so incredibly widespread that it's simply, the days are numbered, really, | ||
| in which we're going to be able to keep this thing secret. | ||
| How? | ||
| How would you think, Bud, that it would break open? | ||
| If that magic moment comes and all of this builds to some kind of climax, how would you think it might come? | ||
| Well, it can come in many different ways. | ||
| I'm working on a case, and have been for quite some time, in which a very important political figure Witnessed an abduction of someone floating 12 stories up in midair with three aliens underneath a UFO right in New York City around 3.30 in the morning back in 1989. | ||
| Now I can just say that if this figure, this political figure, were to come forward and state for the public record what he's seen, it would have the same effect as if, to make a rough analogy, Uh, let's say Robert McNamara, the former Secretary of Defense, came forward and announced officially that, uh, as Secretary of Defense, he did see, uh, uh, alien bodies and, uh, alien captured craft and so forth, crashed UFOs. | ||
| Is it somebody that big? | ||
| Yes, and that's all I'm going to say about his identity. | ||
| But the point is, if this were to happen, I mean, that would just be one way in which it could be made public. | ||
| Another way, of course, is if we had other important figures. | ||
| You see, this is so widespread that there have to be enormous numbers of Uh, military and government scientific individuals, uh, who, uh, are operating under some kind of vile secrecy right now. | ||
| They have to be, because, uh, you can't keep something this large, this secret, for this long. | ||
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Right. | |
| And that's where a crack could occur in the, uh, in the circus of betrayal. | ||
| A crack could occur at any point. | ||
| Some information could come tumbling out if people decided to come forward with what they know. | ||
| There have been isolated cases. | ||
| George has been looking into the whole situation, of course, with Babassar and so forth. | ||
| But there have been many, many other people who have come forward little by little, people around the world who have raised their voice. | ||
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And what if someone, uh... I don't know if it's pretty much as generous, but probably a kind of press conference in an hour, but they can't live with themselves any longer and they want to announce this to the public. | |
| That could happen, that sort of thing, any day. | ||
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Can you work with abductions? | |
| Are you getting any sense from abductions and from stories? | ||
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Or is there anything you can tell us that would also... Well, I'll just say one thing. | |
| Now, this is a slightly humorous note. | ||
| Maybe we need a little humor at this point. | ||
| But if there's any universal law operating here, it's Murphy's Law. | ||
| Because things seem to go wrong with alien abductions, too. | ||
| The meaning of this, I think, has to do with the fact that there are so many of these events taking place that mistakes are bound to occur. | ||
| And there also seems to be something sort of frantic about the alien activity, as if they're speeding things up. | ||
| I get reports very often from abductees implying that this hybrid program really isn't working properly. | ||
| It isn't doing what they... | ||
| They're not totally successful with it, and it's as if time is limited for them or something of that sort. | ||
| So there's a kind of frantic nature. | ||
| But on the humor part of it, for instance, I was just working with a woman who had gone to bed wearing a T-shirt | ||
| and some underpants, and when she woke up in the morning, she was wearing the T-shirt, | ||
| some memory of an event during the night, having been taken out of the house and an abduction. | ||
| She was not wearing underpants, but in fact on the bed table next to her were some other woman's underpants. | ||
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Not hers. | |
| Holy mackerel! | ||
| I had the same exact thing that happened to a woman on the floor. | ||
| I went to bed wearing, again, some kind of night shirt and underpants and woke up with out them and there were some other woman's Underwear in the house. | ||
| A woman in Ohio went to bed wearing her nightgown and woke up with a man's green t-shirt on. | ||
| Clothes disappear. | ||
| One woman woke up with another woman's earrings on the table next to her. | ||
| This sort of thing. | ||
| But, but, but, when you regressed these people, and I assume that you did, how could you resist? | ||
| What did you find out? | ||
| Well, that the person was taken into a ship. | ||
| undressed there was a You know a series of physical examinations and so forth and | ||
| often this whole presentation Scene where they're shown a small strange child asked to | ||
| hold her one of the various kinds of things that seem to happen in a very | ||
| routine way and then the person taken back See there are often mistakes the person is put in the wrong | ||
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bed or the person put her feet are up on the pillow And they have to put her to bed or they're on the couch | |
| downstairs And you know you get mentions of just what the people, one | ||
| man is driving a car, and the rest of them are seeing UFOs and have to shoot themselves. | ||
| He's not out of body experience. | ||
| positions, the different man is driving the car, they have no recollection of how that | ||
| happened. In other words, people are put down in the wrong place or the wrong clothes or | ||
| whatever it is, suggesting that there's a kind of undue haste operating here. But it | ||
| does of course give a very specific kind of physical evidence to these events. He's not | ||
| out of body experience, these are out of the house experiences, as we like to say, but | ||
| the alien haste I think signals something in a strange way. | ||
| It signals that they're working too hard, too fast, against some kind of deadline | ||
| would be the deduction we could make. And those all may be wrong deductions. | ||
| Alright, here's a question for you, Bud. During these abductions, how do you know that | ||
| Have there ever been cases where the person abducted is with several other people that they're able to then describe to you? | ||
| Or is it a person always singly abducted without another human being ever being abducted? | ||
| No, there are many, many cases. | ||
| People are abducted in groups. | ||
| I have two cases where there's seven people abducted simultaneously, all remembering the same story. | ||
| John Carpenter just gave a lecture at the conference I spoke at in Houston yesterday. | ||
| Okay, are these people, though, Bud, who don't know each other otherwise? | ||
| In these cases, these are families or people who do know one another, but one wonderful case that, well, I'm working on two right now, we're trying to locate people. | ||
| We have names and we have a name in one case and A physical description, in another case, of a stranger who was abducted along with the person I was working with. | ||
| We're trying to locate these strangers. | ||
| But there is a wonderful case where a woman in Boston, in the Boston area, was abducted. | ||
| Remembered an old lady with her in the craft. | ||
| I actually had a conversation with the old lady, and the old lady managed to tell her her name and where she was from, although all of this was forgotten until hypnotic regression was entered into. | ||
| Wow. | ||
| A woman in Boston then remembered the old lady's name and her hometown, and although this was an event that had happened seven years earlier, the town was a very small town in one of the Dakotas, as I remember. | ||
| The town clerk was contacted. | ||
| In fact, such a woman had lived there and had died. | ||
| Unfortunately, she was not available, but there were some very interesting stories from her surviving sister about a very strange adventure that her sister had had, which was very terrifying to her. | ||
| But the very fact that the woman in Boston was able to describe, get the name right, get the town right, and get the particular description even of the kinds of clothes she wore, and the fact that she was an artist, because she had been able to tell That's one of the other interesting things, Art. | ||
| in the craft, I think it goes a long way to establishing the reality. | ||
| It does, Bud, and if you ever got two credible people in separate locations, both still alive, | ||
| you would have something that just might be the key that opens up the whole business. | ||
| See, that's one of the other interesting things, Art. | ||
| There are so many areas where the evidence is just coming forward, not in little dribbles, | ||
| but it's coming in quite a rush. | ||
| In the conference that I just attended and spoke at in Houston, a young woman in the Houston area, who is in the medical field, presented an x-ray of a man who had actually tried to commit suicide, and the x-ray was done just routinely. | ||
| He shot himself in the head, and the x-ray was taken for medical purposes to locate the bullet and so forth. | ||
| The man is still living, although in evidently pretty terrible shape and has been moved to a hospital in Mexico. | ||
| He's a Mexican. | ||
| But this x-ray showed a very unusual thing. | ||
| There is an absolutely clear-cut spring-like object, which is evidently in the finest cavity right behind it, near the pituitary gland. | ||
| Wow. | ||
| A totally foreign object. | ||
| A spring-like object? | ||
| Spring-like object. | ||
| It looks like, you know the kind of spring you have in a ballpoint pen? | ||
| Sure. | ||
| It looks like that, although it's much smaller, but it's a very distinct metallic object. | ||
| And of course, we don't know anything about what that is, but nobody's supposed to have something like that next to the pituitary gland. | ||
| No. | ||
| The suggestion is, of course, that we may have now another x-ray of an implant. | ||
| This man is lingering from his suicide attempt with a bullet in his head. | ||
| And the woman there in Houston is investigating this further and hoping that, it's a horrible thing to say, but if the man doesn't survive, that an autopsy could be done and the subject could be recovered. | ||
| Have they managed to attain that? | ||
| In other words, if he passes away, will they be able to do an autopsy? | ||
| Oh, that's something that I leave to the medical people there. | ||
| The problem is a lot of these things are not as easy to do just because of the proprieties involved and the ethics involved. | ||
| But this is something that, I mean, this just turned up in a completely accidental way. | ||
| And therefore, I should point out that head x-rays are not typically done. | ||
| In other words, doctors do not like to routinely prescribe a full head x-ray. | ||
| So it isn't as if we have literally millions of x-rays of heads the way we do of the rest of the body and the teeth and so forth. | ||
| And so the fact that this was done because of a suicide attempt, the bullet lodged in | ||
| the skull, they had to actually turn up what seems to be an implant. | ||
| So here we are again. | ||
| When we talk about these breakthroughs, they are coming left, right and center. | ||
| And as I say, the evidence is simply accumulating at such a rapid rate that society is going | ||
| to have to get itself together and decide, you know, we're going to have to decide how | ||
| to effect this transition into a period where we are dealing quite consciously with the | ||
| existence of a non-human intelligence. | ||
| How about the number of abductions? | ||
| You'd be the one to know about that. | ||
| I'm sure you get reports about that at night. | ||
| Yeah, I pick up at least two new cases every single day. | ||
| And I would guess that we have in the United States, well, many, many millions. | ||
| We might be dealing with five million abductions. | ||
| If I could have a second, I'd like to read you something. | ||
| I just read this letter today. | ||
| I received from a woman, and this is just so typical, and I thought it would be interesting for people to understand what would suggest an abduction. | ||
| This is a woman Uh, who's 35, describing about an event that happened when she was 11 or 12. | ||
| She said my room had wooden louvered shutters at the bottom halves of the windows. | ||
| I always felt very exposed at night in my room and used to dress, and I'm dressed in the bathroom. | ||
| I lay awake now sometimes trying to force myself to remember more of this incident, but my mind won't let me. | ||
| And she wants to know why it bothers her after 23 years. | ||
| I find that I cannot stand to see an exposed window at night, and even make sure the mini blinds are all angled up so no light could shine down through them. | ||
| She said she was asleep in bed at the age of 11 or 12 and awoke to see light coming down through the shutters. | ||
| The light was most strong in the window directly above my head, but I could see it coming through another window, too. | ||
| It was dark outside. | ||
| She said, I thought I heard what were voices barely buzzing at my hearing threshold. | ||
| I was completely unable to move. | ||
| Total paralysis. | ||
| This could have been from intense fear, I suppose, but I remember not being able to move my head, my arms, legs. | ||
| I could barely breathe. | ||
| I remember desperately wanting to be able to run into my dad in mom's bedroom, but being unable to do so. | ||
| I had the worst feeling of deep dread. | ||
| Sometimes, even now when I'm trying to remember, I still get a sense of this numbing dread. | ||
| I can feel my heart rate and respiration increase, and my muscles even get rigid with stress. | ||
| I have a brief picture of silhouetted heads bobbing around in my room. | ||
| I don't know where that image comes from, and it may be completely unrelated. | ||
| I then remember being outside my house when it was barely getting light outside by an oak tree near my room. | ||
| It's hard to piece this all together. | ||
| At any rate, she just goes on to say at one point that she knows the difference between fantasy and reality and so forth, but she has this incredible fear. | ||
| She said she watched the TV special featuring your friend who was abducted, had an implant and I must admit that I had a strong | ||
| reaction to the program. | ||
| I'd tremble and I had to keep my teeth from chattering. | ||
| Now, when you hear something like this, you know that this woman is suffering from a very | ||
| real trauma. | ||
| These are the effects that one runs into with post-traumatic stress disorder. | ||
| And she's 35 years old and desperate to find out more about this event at the age of 11. | ||
| She has other problems, too. | ||
| These are the sorts of things that if any of our listeners recognize these in their | ||
| own lives, that I would suggest that they get in touch with us. | ||
| I don't know if we talked about this before, Bud, but, you know, that was so traumatic that it forces me to again ask, how many of these people that have had experiences, don't you wonder, didn't make it through it with their sanity? | ||
| Uh, you know, might end up in, might be in mental institutions today. | ||
| Well, I have a case where, uh, I have, uh, certainly, uh, two cases, actually, where, uh, After the fact, in one case, the son of this particular person, the son happens to be a psychiatrist. | ||
| In the other case, it was the wife of the particular person, wrote to me and I've worked with them and so forth, but each one described the death, the suicide of, in the first case, the father, in the other case, the husband, after a particularly terrifying, evidently a terrifying UFO experience. | ||
| So, there have been deaths, there have been people who have not made it. | ||
| This woman, who incidentally, I just happened to get her letter when I came back from my Houston trip, and I did phone her because I'm going to be speaking at a conference in Gulf Breeze, Florida next week, and she lives in Florida, so I'm going to try to work with her. | ||
| So you literally got this letter tonight? | ||
| Yep. | ||
| Okay. | ||
| I read it maybe a half an hour ago. | ||
| But the point is, she seems very sane. | ||
| She went into her background. | ||
| It's a very, very intelligent, clearly written letter, as many of these letters are. | ||
| These are not people who are in any sense strange. | ||
| These are people who are suffering from a very real trauma, a series of traumas. | ||
| How much help can you give these people? | ||
| Well, the first thing that can be done, of course, once you get to know the individual and feel that he or she is stable and that there is a kind | ||
| of safety net at home that the person has friends they can talk to or relatives or a | ||
| therapist or whatever. | ||
| And so they are not totally alone and you undertake the idea of hypnotic regression | ||
| to look back into the experiences. | ||
| There is a process that I think is a little bit like working a splitter out of the flesh, | ||
| working the memories out which might be very painful to extricate. | ||
| But once the splitter is out, the flesh can heal, the person feels a lot better because | ||
| first of all the self-doubt disappears. | ||
| That gnawing thing, I must be crazy, there's something the matter with me, how can I possibly have had this happen? | ||
| And of course, the saddest thing about this is that as children, very often the child will run to mother or dad and say, There are little men in the room, I couldn't move, and we | ||
| will be told you just had a bad dream, go right back in there and go back to sleep. | ||
| Once the child is now an adult and is looking into this and can ventilate a lot of the fear | ||
| and a lot of the anger, which is virtually inevitable, and can have that sense that there | ||
| is nothing to matter with them. | ||
| They're perfectly normal. | ||
| It's just that, uh, uh, they've acted, uh, in a strange way because they've had these terrible fears. | ||
| There is a fear that this woman can't go by an open window and has to close the blinds | ||
| down at the age of 35 with the whole family. | ||
| That's really more like a phobia at this point. | ||
| Oh, well, the phobia is one of the most fascinating things in art, the way phobias can often be | ||
| explained away and can actually be lessened when the person realizes, as is often the | ||
| case, that the phobia is connected with the UFO experience. | ||
| The actress Mare Whittingham, who was in the film Intruders, called me and had me talk | ||
| to a man she knew who thought he might have had these experiences. | ||
| He had a terrible phobia of sharks when we discussed that, and I said, well, I'm going | ||
| Well, I imagine, trying to do a little leading, I said, I imagine when you're afraid of sharks, you must think of that great big mouth with all those teeth. | ||
| He said, no, no, I never think of that. | ||
| I said, well, what do you think of when you think of sharks as being so scary? | ||
| He said, it's their eyes and something about their skin. | ||
| Well, their eyes, of course, sharks' eyes are just dead cold. | ||
| Yeah, but the point is, he realized the gray skin and the haunting eyes and the coldness Uh, when he began thinking about it. | ||
| Oh, I see. | ||
| Associated with the aliens. | ||
| I understand. | ||
| With nothing to do with peace. | ||
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Never even thought about that. | |
| Good place to stop, bud. | ||
| We've, uh, got a nine o'clock newscast and we'll be right back with you. | ||
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Okay. | |
| So stay right there. | ||
| Bud Hopkins is my guest and we will The opening of the telephone lines. | ||
| So, stand by for that. | ||
| You're listening to Area 2000 from Las Vegas. | ||
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I'm Art Bell. | |
| ♪♪ From Jackie Gons' Plaza downtown, this is KDWN Las Vegas. | ||
| ♪♪ Again, good evening and welcome back to Area 2000. | ||
| Bud Hopkins is my guest this evening. | ||
| I want to remind everybody a couple of station-keeping items here. | ||
| The Bigelow Foundation is the one that makes all this possible. | ||
| If you have questions, if you have a story, if you have somebody you would like to talk to about an experience in one of the areas that we discussed, please contact Angela Thompson. | ||
| Who is the research coordinator for the Bigelow Foundation during the business week between 9 and 5 at area code 702-456-1606. | ||
| 702-456-1606, Angela Thompson. | ||
| 702-456-1606. 702-456-1606, Angela Thompson. And let me also give you the | ||
| telephone numbers if you would like to speak, a rare opportunity to speak to | ||
| Bud Hopkins. In the metropolitan area of Las Vegas, our number is... | ||
| 3-8-3-8-2-5-5. | ||
| If you're calling from out of state, please note one of these numbers, uh, toll free. | ||
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It's 1-800-3-3-8-8-2-5-5. | |
| 1-800-3-3-8-8-2-5-5. | ||
| If you're calling from out of state, please note one of these numbers toll-free. It's 1-800-338-8255. | ||
| 1-800-338-8255. | ||
| The wildcard direct dial lines are area code 702-385. | ||
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7214. | |
| Let them ring until they're answered. | ||
| And finally, if you have never called at all, no matter where you are, we have a special line for you. | ||
| Area code 702-385-7213. | ||
| Repeating that number. | ||
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Area code 702-385-7213. | |
| 385-7213. | ||
| Repeating that number, area code 702-385-7213. | ||
| Now back to Bud Hopkins. | ||
| Yes, I am. | ||
| Good. | ||
| We'll get phone calls here in a moment. | ||
| How long are we going to go? | ||
| Oh, we've got about 53 minutes or so to go. | ||
| I couldn't remember. | ||
| I thought it was a one-hour show, but I couldn't remember. | ||
| No, we're a two-hour show. | ||
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Oh, great. | |
| And even that's not enough many times. | ||
| Yeah, I know. | ||
| Anything else? | ||
| You know what I wanted to ask you, Bud? | ||
| What is your current area of fascination? | ||
| In other words, As you've moved through investigating these abductions, what is the most fruitful area, the best area, do you think of research? | ||
| But what are you concentrating on right now? | ||
| I'm going to be giving a workshop on Saturday in Gulf Breeze on how parents can handle the issue of their children being abducted. | ||
| So children? | ||
| Yeah, that's a very important thing and I have of course a projective test that I've developed I have a wonderful videotape which was sent to me by a man who used to test on his daughter and videotape the six-year-old. | ||
| It's extremely moving. | ||
| Can you give a sense of how you would do that? | ||
| What do you mean by a test? | ||
| Well, this is my projected test. | ||
| The basic idea is if a child feels that... I mean, if parents feel a child is having abduction experiences, then that would mean that the child is terrified, doesn't want to sleep in his or her room, and talks about Uh, there's monsters in the room with huge eyes. | ||
| The child's then described as maybe being taken outside. | ||
| Perhaps the parents find the child outside. | ||
| Physical marks, cuts, and, uh, these scoop marks that are so far from the child's body. | ||
| Uh, all the sorts of things that would lead, uh, virtually anybody who knows about this, the patterns to suspect abduction. | ||
| Uh, I developed this test, and, uh, it's partly to, uh, help the child, uh, Feel free to talk about the experience. | ||
| What the test is, and I present it in the framework of a game of fun. | ||
| When I do it, I play with the child first, and we fool around. | ||
| And this is a child anywhere between two and a half and, let's say, ten. | ||
| And then I say, now this is a game, and see if you know who or what these people are. | ||
| And I have ten cards with coloring book style drawings of heads, one on each card. | ||
| And they go this way. | ||
| Santa Claus, a Batman, a clown, a policeman, a little girl, a ninja turtle, and an alien head. | ||
| Then a little boy, a witch, and a skeleton head. | ||
| So the first thing, of course, is to see how the child reacts when they get to the alien head. | ||
| Most amazing things happen. | ||
| This little girl on the videotape, who at the age of six soon as she sees the head, just bursts into tears, hides her face in her father's arms. | ||
| She's terrified that's the man from her dreams. | ||
| She doesn't want to look at it. | ||
| This whole thing progresses. | ||
| At one point she asks her father, where did you get that? | ||
| Meaning the picture of the alien. | ||
| She has quite a bit of time trying to get her to talk about what her dreams are. | ||
| She calls them dreams, of course, with this figure. | ||
| And she said they come in and they take her out and put her in their car and take her away. | ||
| And he said, what kind of car is it? | ||
| And she said it doesn't have any wheels. | ||
| And she is in tears throughout this whole thing. | ||
| Totally terrified looking at this thing. | ||
| I have had. | ||
| Would you likely follow something like that up? | ||
| In other words, after seeing that on a videotape, for example, would you then call the parents? | ||
| Well, I have been in touch with the parents. | ||
| But of course, this is a test that is mostly administered by a therapist that I have provided a copy of the test to. | ||
| A number of people have them. | ||
| I mean, there must be at least a hundred of these out now. | ||
| It's extremely effective. | ||
| Now, the second part of the test is I'll ask a child to divide them into two piles, the good guys and the bad guys. | ||
| And so once they do that, you can ask them, because the alien inevitably ends up in the bad pile. | ||
| Why do you like this one in the good pile and then you turn to the alien pile and ask why you don't like that? | ||
| In this case with a little girl, she couldn't even look at the picture. | ||
| She kept turning it over and saying she just couldn't look at it and she'd cry and so forth and so on. | ||
| And the third part of the test is I'll ask the child to make up a story. | ||
| I'll tell them I really love stories and I bet you can make up a good story and a silly story or a scary story or a funny story. | ||
| And I pick out the Ninja Turtle or whatever they liked and you start with the story there and then I take out the alien picture and have them make up a story. | ||
| And of course that again is a wonderful way to elicit real events And it gives you a lot of insight into how to then go about helping the child cope with these experiences. | ||
| Wow. | ||
| All right, there is a full bank of lines that would like to speak with you, Bud, so why don't we do it? | ||
| Okay. | ||
| All right. | ||
| On our first time caller line, you're on the air with Bud Hopkins. | ||
| Good evening. | ||
| Where are you calling from, please? | ||
| I'm calling from Nye County. | ||
| Nye County. | ||
| All right. | ||
| Turn your radio off, please, sir. | ||
|
unidentified
|
The radio off? | |
| Off. | ||
| Thank you. | ||
| Go right ahead. | ||
| Yes, I'm calling from Nye County, and I'm presently 35 years old, and I walked out when I was 17 years old. | ||
| You walked out of what? | ||
| Are you familiar with the book, Strangers Among Us? | ||
| Oh, yeah, the walk-in things. | ||
| Yes, I became a walk-in when I was 17 years old. | ||
| I unfortunately have a difficult time trying to assert myself. | ||
| It seems to me that our country, I know about MJ-12 and the activities going on. | ||
| It seems that there's a problem with our government. | ||
| They don't seem to want to help us. | ||
| And I hope to see that someday that that changes. | ||
| Well, we certainly are working to hope that the government can change its policy about | ||
| ridiculing uh... people who had ufo experiences | ||
| uh... the official government policy comes down in its practical | ||
| implications to one very simple idea anyone who has ever had | ||
| the uh... abduction experiences or fighting for that matter are either lying uh... | ||
| desperately mistaken or uh... somehow psychologically diluted and this is of course a terrible thing and i | ||
| i thank you for your comment but i think you very much uh... i'm not sure | ||
| uh... but even if i it was our business person or somebody with with pretty good | ||
| uh... career underway and i had an abduction experience Frankly, Bud, I don't know that I'd relate it to anybody. | ||
| Well, I advise people I work with, abdictees, not to go public because there are hidden risks. | ||
| As an example, one woman desperately wrote to me that she had gotten herself involved Did he win? | ||
| I don't think he won. | ||
| I had never met this person at all. | ||
| It was just a thing through letters. | ||
| He was trying to get custody of the children on the ground, but she was insane because | ||
| she believed she had been abducted by a UFO. | ||
| Did he win? | ||
| I don't think he won. | ||
| I had never met this person at all. | ||
| It was just a thing through letters. | ||
| But one would never imagine in the middle of a relatively going marriage that something | ||
| like that could happen. | ||
| And then you can see that the husband could use even something like this in such a vicious | ||
| way against his wife. | ||
| There are all kinds of problems, and I've only had maybe 12 people or so of all the | ||
| people I've worked with, probably in the area of almost 500 people, I've probably had only | ||
| about 12 willing to come forward and use their full names and describe their accounts. | ||
| And I think that this is the interesting thing and in a way the terrible thing. | ||
| Even though those of us who have been looking into this for a long time, Linda and George and of course many of the other guests you've had on the program, we're in essence very much winning the war. | ||
| The war against the skeptics who refuse to look at this, who refuse to think about it and admit it's a possibility. | ||
| We're winning the war, but in the meantime, the one battle that they have won is that they have managed to create such a climate of ridicule that witnesses are afraid to come forward and state their names, give their names and their positions, and tell what happened to them. | ||
| I wonder what that might mean in terms of how many have not come forward, Bud, versus those that have. | ||
| Oh, well, there's only a tiny, tiny percentage of those that come forward. | ||
| That would be my guess. | ||
| Any percentage. | ||
| Wild Card Line 3, you're on the air with Bud Hopkins. | ||
| Good evening. | ||
| Where are you calling from, please? | ||
| Tucson, Arizona. | ||
| Tucson, yes, sir. | ||
| I'm going back now more than fifty years, when I was about seven years old, and there was a phenomenon that happened then that was followed by some strange things later on, but basically what it was, I remember I was alone in the living room. | ||
| I was about six or seven, and there was a Christmas tree with presents around it, and This is a memory that's persisted all my life. | ||
| A ball of light came in the window. | ||
| Must have been about the size of a volleyball or basketball. | ||
| Came in the window, went around the living room, I washed it, and went back out again. | ||
| And sometimes I've asked myself, did this really happen? | ||
| And there's nothing to say that it didn't. | ||
| You know, it seems to be a very, very extremely vivid Well, now there are two situations here. | ||
| You could have had an experience which we tend to associate with UFO experiences, conceivably even abductions, but there's also the phenomenon known as ball lightning. | ||
| Do you know anything about what the weather was doing at the time or whether this thing made any noise? | ||
| No, it was completely silent and it was completely round and glowing. | ||
| and I thought at first that it had come in a... it had entered in a broken part of the window | ||
| but when I looked later on, the window was solid. | ||
| What was the weather at the time outside, do you know? | ||
| I don't recall, but it was not in a place where you'd expect that. | ||
| It was in a place called Holly Drive in a canyon near Hollywood. | ||
| And it was not a place where one would expect that kind of phenomenon to happen. | ||
| Well, those are the only two alternatives I can think of for what you've just described. | ||
| And if you associate it with other experiences that might relate to the abduction phenomenon, then I would suggest looking into them. | ||
| But of course if it's just an isolated event... There was two other distinct events, I'll | ||
| be extremely brief. One was as if time stopped. I was walking in the desert and it was as | ||
| if something had shifted. I've never been able to put it into words very well, but it's | ||
| as if something had shifted and something strange had happened and it was like a frisson, | ||
| I got chill all of a sudden. | ||
| And you look back and you say, what the heck was that? | ||
| And another one was an extremely bright flashing light, and this was only about, oh, five or six years ago, where I had thought I was laying in bed and everything was extremely quiet. | ||
| It was like the other phenomenon, a complete lack of sound, and an extremely bright flash that filled the room, and I remember waiting because I thought there was going to be an explosion. | ||
| So it repeated itself in about ten minutes, and I walked out and back, and I didn't hear a sound. | ||
| Everything seemed normal, but I don't particularly connect it with anything. | ||
| I feel that I shouldn't really try to interpret it in any way. | ||
| I walked out and back. | ||
| The one thing that I remember distinctly was that, and this is a recollection later on, there was a complete lack of sound. | ||
| I would get dressed and... | ||
| The one thing that I remember distinctly was that, and this is a recollection later on, | ||
| there was a complete lack of sound. | ||
| I didn't hear anything. | ||
| No animals, no birds, no planes or anything. | ||
| That's... | ||
| That's also something that's commonly reported. | ||
| Well, I would say if all of this leaves you pretty uneasy, then it's probably worth looking into. | ||
| And by that, he probably means finding somebody who can help you out with being regressed and... Well, I'm not really that uncomfortable with it. | ||
| It's not something that's ever particularly frightened me. | ||
| All right, Palmer. | ||
| Thank you very much. | ||
| Okay, thank you. | ||
| That, Bud, it seems to happen, though, multiple times to people, not just once, but multiple times. | ||
| It begins in childhood. | ||
| It's as if the person is a kind of a, as it were, tagged animal, and on it goes. | ||
| And the person is picked up many, many times in their childhood. | ||
| Now, this is just a very interesting thing that, again, this is something I found out tonight in one of my cases, but I have several cases where, as small children, People remember having been abducted and at the end of the abduction having been given a small object almost like a reward. | ||
| And in one case with one little boy it was a kind of rather rare geode-like mineral formation. | ||
| Very strange. | ||
| That there's actually something that is available and sold in stores that sell minerals and crystals and so forth. | ||
| This little boy had a collection of three or four and finally when his mother found him, he told her that the little men gave them to him if he was good. | ||
| And this was a little boy at the time, six years old, he had no access to a store where he could have bought these things. | ||
| The mother gave them to me on the ground. | ||
| She didn't even want them in the house with her. | ||
| She was very upset by them. | ||
| But I just picked up another case where a little girl, again, I mean, she's now an adult, but she remembered being given, every time something happened, three marbles. | ||
| And they had strange inscriptions on them, little raised characters. | ||
| And she'd love to hold these. | ||
| And they were very frightening to her, but somehow appealing at the same time. | ||
| There are so many sub-patterns within the abduction phenomenon. | ||
| But this would suggest, again, their knowledge of how to control children by rewards and, you know, I suppose the carrot and the stick together. | ||
| Okay, again, speaking now for the person who might be out there and have had these experiences, and the phones are all lit up so I assume many have, but, you know, vague feelings of unease or even a fairly serious uneasiness with events that have occurred in your life, are you fairly sure that a person would be better off Exploring them and finding out what they are, or could it be that when you found out it was something really kind of on the negative side, an abduction or multiple abduction experiences, it might be more of a negative? | ||
| Well, you see, every case involves a very distinct human being who has had some kind of experience. | ||
| And as in any other of life's problems, everyone is different in how they respond to There are times when it doesn't seem to be a good idea to | ||
| pursue it and there are times when you feel like it is worth working out the splendor. | ||
| As a researcher, do you make that judgment as you hear the story? | ||
| Are there times, Bud, where you think it is better not to tell them? | ||
| I try to make the decision with that person. | ||
| In other words, we do this as a kind of joint process. | ||
| This is why I try to do a very solid, long interview before I do any kind of regressive | ||
| hypnosis. | ||
| There are just too many things to consider, and we have a little kit which is mailed out. | ||
| It's an eight-page brochure, really, about when to do this and when not to, to look into your experiences, and this is available, again, through the Intruders Foundation, through IF. | ||
| And how do they get hold of it? | ||
| Well, they can write to just the letters IF, and it's Box 30233. | ||
| That's great. | ||
| New York, New York, and the zip is 111, 10011. | ||
| And we'll send this out free of charge to anybody who feels that they've had this experience | ||
| and wants some information about whether or not they should look into it. | ||
| That's great. | ||
| That's IF, which stands for the... | ||
| For Tudor Foundation. | ||
| Tudor Foundation box 30233, New York, New York, 1011. | ||
| Right. | ||
| Alright, good. | ||
| Line 1, good evening, you're on the air with Bud Hopkins. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Yes, the last time I spoke to Mr. Hopkins on this program, he said it was preposterous to think that people who claim to be abducted by aliens are actually victims of government mind control. | |
| but consider the fact that for years the government has had a technology that can use microwaves to | ||
| place people in a hypnotic trance from a remote distance and then project any kind of image or thought into their | ||
| mind so someone could be zapped from a van sitting on their | ||
| street without noticing anything unusual before that. | ||
| And so I think that anyone who understands the UFO movement will realize that it's part of the new age movement | ||
| which is working to create an occult world religion which would be very useful to a world government | ||
| in controlling the public by superstition and religion. | ||
| So what do you think? | ||
| Well, I suppose what you say is possible. | ||
| I think it's... Again, I would have to say I think it's preposterous, but I think it's possible. | ||
| All right, thank you. | ||
| He's determined to think that it's... | ||
|
unidentified
|
You have too many situations of UFOs connected with abductions. | |
| So with these experiences. | ||
| Good evening. | ||
| of abductions with these experiences. | ||
| Alright, on the first one, wild card line three, you're on the air with Bud Hopkins in Las Vegas. Good evening. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Good evening. This subject, is it all about just people who have been captured or can it be about one that had led on | |
| the ground and the person went over to investigate after his left? | ||
| Well, no, that's right. I'm interested in all kinds of things. Tell me your experience. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Okay, out in the desert in 1959, we were on a motorcycle run. We was laying out a run and there was two of us. | |
| And he went out of his chain broke and I was pulling him and it got dark, real dark, no moon. | ||
| And he was lighting bushes of fire so we could run from one bush to the next and I was riding him, we left his behind. | ||
| And all of a sudden a light came down out of the sky and I saw him running and I looked up and I took off running and this round object landed on the ground and we could hear it clinking around on the ground. | ||
| We were hiding in an outcropping of rocks. | ||
| And after this object left, we stayed behind the rocks until it grew light. | ||
| And it was one cold night, and it was about 30 miles away from Edwards Air Force Base. | ||
| Okay, we went over there to investigate, and both our motorcycles were standing side by side with the clutch lever to brake lever, so they had picked his up and put it next to mine. | ||
| Well, did you see how they did that if you were watching? | ||
| No, we didn't. | ||
| We were hiding behind an outcrop and a rock. | ||
| You didn't kind of peek out to see what they were doing? | ||
|
unidentified
|
No, we were afraid to put our head up because we didn't know if they had some sort of gun. | |
| We didn't know what they were doing. | ||
| Let me ask you one question. | ||
| Did you ever have dreams about that after that? | ||
|
unidentified
|
Uh, no. | |
| In fact, I haven't, but we've been keeping in touch. | ||
| But what happened, Pete, we called, he called, I was afraid. | ||
| We told all our buddies the next day at the motorcycle meeting that we didn't want to put the rim there. | ||
| But we had taken the, this thing went up such, it melted all the sand into glass. | ||
| This thing was so hot. | ||
| And, uh, in the daylight it cooled off and we took a bunch of chunks of this stuff. | ||
| Well, he got all involved, my buddy. | ||
| And, uh, he called, uh, the Air Force. | ||
| Uh-huh. | ||
| And told them where it was. | ||
| Well, the Air Force found this place, stripped it to the ground, and, uh, he tried and tried and tried. | ||
| I told him, just keep your mouth shut, boy, because you're not going to get nowhere. | ||
| Did he save any of that metal? | ||
|
unidentified
|
No, he, uh, I had a chunk and he came to me about two months ago. | |
| And ask for a chunk of it. | ||
| I have a little chunk of it left that proves what perhaps looks like pepper found wood and rubbed into it. | ||
| Hold it, hold it. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Bob, would you like to solicit something here? | |
| I was thinking, yeah, if he could leave his phone number off the air, put him on hold, I'd talk to him tomorrow. | ||
| You willing to do that, caller? | ||
|
unidentified
|
Sure, I'm willing. | |
| You are? | ||
| Alright, then what I'm going to do is, I'm going to put you both on hold, do a station identification, get the number, and we'll be right back, alright? | ||
|
unidentified
|
Okay. | |
| All right, both of you stand by and we're going to do a quick station identification here | ||
|
unidentified
|
From Jackie Gons Pleasure downtown, this is KDWN Las Vegas Thank you for your attention. | |
| All right, we got that done. | ||
| Good evening, everybody. | ||
| You're listening to Area 2000. | ||
| My guest is Bud Hopkins. | ||
| And we just made a transaction there, and we got the number, and Bud Hopkins now has it. | ||
| Back now to Bud Hopkins. | ||
| Bud, are you there? | ||
| I am. | ||
| Alright, I'll be interested in the follow-up on that one. | ||
| Anytime there is physical evidence, it's pretty exciting. | ||
| Makes a difference. | ||
| Is that something that... What would you do if you got hold of that? | ||
| If you managed to get hold of a piece of that, what would you do with it? | ||
| Well, I have a... An amputee who happens to be a top-flight chemist. | ||
| I just have a question for Mr. Hopkins. | ||
| I just have a question for Mr. Hopkins. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Many people say that they have been, quote, astral projecting, unquote. | |
| Have any of these people been able to describe any, like, Martian terrain or Jovian atmosphere | ||
| or anything that's remotely scientifically able to be confirmed? | ||
| Well, first of all, I haven't used the term astro-projection, and it's not a term that I feel is applicable to the UFO experience. | ||
| The UFO experience, the abduction experiences, of the world. | ||
| People describe it as being like a doctor's office or a lab or something extremely clean and so forth. | ||
| Now in terms of, there are some reports of people who feel that they have seen other worlds within this experience. | ||
| We don't know whether that's actually true or whether imagery is being shown to them. | ||
| There are many cases where it would seem an advectee is shown some kind of situation imagery, some kind of disaster or whatnot, which we think is kind of an alien projective test to see how people react emotionally. | ||
| But in terms of the anthroprojection issue, it's not really applicable here. | ||
| All right, let's keep moving. | ||
| On the first taller line, you would have been on the air. | ||
| Good evening, you're on the air with Bud Hopkins in Las Vegas. | ||
| Where are you calling from, please? | ||
|
unidentified
|
Riverside County, Mr. Bell. | |
| Yes, go right ahead. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Yes, Mr. Hopkins, if I could ask you a question about... Well, it's not exactly missing time. | |
| I have had experiences during the night when I've had too much water to drink and I have to go potty. | ||
| I always check my watch just to see what time it is. | ||
| For the heck of it. | ||
| Sometimes it says one o'clock. | ||
| Hey, I go back to bed. | ||
| Next time I get up, I look at my watch like an hour or two later. | ||
| It's one o'clock. | ||
| The second hand's still moving. | ||
| There's nothing wrong with the watch. | ||
| It is not missing time. | ||
| What on earth is it? | ||
| It has happened many, many times. | ||
| Well, again, from this distance, it's very hard to know exactly what's going on. | ||
| We'd have to sit and talk about other kinds of experiences and other things you might have noticed. | ||
| Does this ever happen to your watch during the day? | ||
|
unidentified
|
No. | |
| Um, no. | ||
| No, not during the day at all. | ||
| I have... | ||
| I've seen UFOs and I've had witnesses with me when it has occurred. | ||
| I have those like pockmarks, one on my, in front of my calf, one on my ankle when I was a child in Texas we were visiting and the doctor didn't know where it came from and it just oozed and oozed until finally it took like six months to heal. | ||
| That's unusual. | ||
|
unidentified
|
And left these embedded scars in my calf and on my one ankle that looks just like these scars you speak of, the scoop marks. | |
| When you have these experiences at night, is there any sense that you have dreams connected with them? | ||
|
unidentified
|
No, no. | |
| And I have never remembered anything like abduction. | ||
| I actually have, like I said, I have seen UFOs. | ||
| And I've sat there and watched them for as long as five minutes on one, about three minutes with the girl down at the market, the box girl. | ||
| We've watched right across the street. | ||
| I really don't know what's happening. | ||
| It's going on throughout the years, just odd things that have occurred since I was a child. | ||
| But this one thing has got me puzzled because you talk of missing time. | ||
| This is like time doesn't go anywhere. | ||
| Now, if I assume If you get out of bed and you go to the bathroom and it's 1 o'clock, then when you come back to the bathroom you probably look at the clock again, right? | ||
| Yes, correct. | ||
|
unidentified
|
A couple hours later. | |
| I don't just get right out of bed again at 1 o'clock. | ||
| It's usually a couple hours later and I'm looking at my watch and here it still says 1 o'clock. | ||
| I was just here. | ||
| Do you have a digital clock in the house? | ||
|
unidentified
|
No, this is my watch. | |
| Well, it might be interesting to put another clock in there and see if the other clock is doing the same thing. | ||
| Joe Clock. | ||
|
unidentified
|
All right. | |
| Okay. | ||
| Thank you very much. | ||
| Thank you. | ||
| Bye-bye. | ||
| Really, really a good idea. | ||
| Two clocks. | ||
| Have you ever tried something like this before? | ||
| Have you heard a similar story to that? | ||
| Well, there are a lot of anomalies around clocks for some reason in these cases. | ||
| I recently was aware that there was an abduction in someone's apartment, and the clocks in the bedroom were flashing as if they had, you know, electricity had failed. | ||
| And yet there was no power outage in the rest of the house, and none of the other clocks were doing, no power outage anywhere around. | ||
| Uh, in the neighborhood, just this, just the bedroom from which the person was evidently taken. | ||
| Uh, this sort of thing happens frequently. | ||
| There's no way that one can imagine that, uh, electricity could be interrupted on, uh, just certain outlets in one room, uh, when those outlets are connected to a circuit that, uh, uh, continues into another room with no interruption of service. | ||
| Absolutely. | ||
| But is there any indication that the time that people spend away from wherever, The area from which they've been abducted. | ||
| Is it linear time, or is there some indication that for an apparent large amount of time spent in the abduction, hardly any time has passed? | ||
| Well, there are very few cases like that. | ||
| We do hear of that occasionally, but it's generally, what we get is a very literal kind of situation. | ||
| The person is gone for two hours, say, and generally has Uh, a range of memory that approaches, uh, when we take normal memory and put it together with what, uh, comes out of the hypnosis, you generally begin to account, it would seem, for the time, for the full amount of time they were gone. | ||
| Uh, but, uh, we do have a few cases where someone, there was a very famous South American case, uh, I believe it's the case of B.B. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Dura, but, uh, What's the word for this? | |
| His detachment of infantry had encamped and he was gone for something like 20 minutes and came back and he had a five day's growth of beard and so forth and so on. | ||
| And the sense was that an enormous amount of time had gone by. | ||
| There are very few stories of this nature, which are of course very interesting and very puzzling, but they're very far from the norm. | ||
| Okay. | ||
| A lot of people want to talk to you, Bud. | ||
| Good evening. | ||
| On the first time caller line, you're on the air with Bud Hopkins. | ||
| Good evening. | ||
| Where are you calling from, please? | ||
|
unidentified
|
Redding. | |
| Redding, California. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Okay. | |
| Go ahead, sir. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Okay. | |
| I'm a first-time caller. | ||
| I'm a second-time listener. | ||
| I was in Ely, Nevada on April 17th of 87. | ||
| I was in a place that was working for Nevada Department of Forestry. | ||
| Out of the prison system. | ||
| I was out in the desert, it was a clear day, and to this day, I don't know if I'll cry when I tell you this, but there was something that was about 100 yards away from me, in the desert, and it was making no noise at all, and it was flying at a slow rate of speed, it was a light tan color, with like tiger stripes going across it, it made no noise at all, it stopped, it sat there, and then took off again, and I just shook. | ||
| I didn't know what I'd seen to this day. | ||
| My father's been listening to you for a long time, and he told me maybe I should call you and ask what it was that I'd seen, because it's bothered me since. | ||
| Yeah, in what way has it bothered you? | ||
| You just were curious, or you felt kind of upset by it? | ||
|
unidentified
|
Well, yeah, because I never really gave UFOs a flat until I'd seen this. | |
| When I had told the camp and some of the guards there, they told me not to say anything. | ||
| And later that, the next day, there was these huge planes, like the ones that carry all the army troops. | ||
| They fly, they flew in formation three in a row, back and forth across the desert, and they were flying low enough and slow enough to where I was standing on a hilltop with some friends of mine, and we could see into the cockpits, and you could see all the way through, and there was nobody in the cockpits flying these planes. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| Well, that's a very interesting Uh, Story, we do get situations like that. | ||
| Did the planes make a tremendous roaring noise? | ||
|
unidentified
|
After they left, yeah. | |
| They didn't when they were well above us. | ||
| They made no noise. | ||
| But after they got back 100 yards away, then there was a loud rumbling noise. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| Uh, well, I think what I've seen made no noise and it was only, it was only so far away. | ||
| I probably could have ran to it. | ||
| Uh-huh. | ||
| But we were only allowed to go only so far out of the boundaries. | ||
| Right. | ||
| Tell me one thing. | ||
| Have you dreamed about this afterwards? | ||
| Oh yes. | ||
| And what happens in the dream? | ||
|
unidentified
|
I just wake up and I'm sweating everywhere and I don't understand why. | |
| I know I had a problem when I was there afterwards. | ||
| We lived like 27 to a mobile home and you're not allowed outside the mobile home any time at night. | ||
| And I found myself out in the middle of the yard and I woke up and I was there and I got so scared because I knew I was not supposed to be out there. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| Well, I think this should be looked into and again, if you have that address that we gave, write to me and tell me when you do, what's the closest big city to where you are in California? | ||
| Redding, California. | ||
| Well, I'll get it on the... | ||
| Uh, and see who we can refer you to. | ||
| And I think you ought to look into it. | ||
| I think it'd be very important and helpful to you. | ||
|
unidentified
|
There's a lot of things I've seen out there, but I was told, again, not to say anything. | |
| I wasn't even supposed to mention anything to anybody else. | ||
| Mm-hmm. | ||
| All right, Clowder, thank you. | ||
| And please contact Bud. | ||
| You want to give that address one more time? | ||
|
unidentified
|
It'll be... Okay. | |
| It's just to write to me at if, box 30233, New York, New York, 10011. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Alright, very good. Let's keep moving, boss. | |
| Let's keep moving. | ||
| Line 3, you're on the hour. | ||
| That happens in Las Vegas. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Texas, Bob. | |
| San Jose, California. | ||
| San Jose. | ||
|
unidentified
|
How you doing? | |
| Fine. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Just a real quick comment. | |
| McDaniel's paper referred to by Griesen defines a very pragmatic methodology with which to | ||
| prove or disprove Hoagland's Mars Structures Hypothesis. | ||
| And it's kind of pertinent here. | ||
| McDaniel's also in the same paper compares Nath's ignorance to the Catholic Church's | ||
| condemnation of Comperticus's astronomy and mathematics. | ||
| And it kind of goes hand in hand with some of the things that people, Mr. Hopkins certainly | ||
| is having experiences with that are being denied by the government. | ||
| I have two questions for you, Mr. Hopkins, and then I'll take them off the air. | ||
| With reference to your paper, Ethical Implications of UFO Abduction and Lear's Public Statements of Alien Farming Human and Animal Body Parts for Sustenance, how do you see his story? | ||
| Well, I appreciate the sentiment there. | ||
| Why would someone of your stature bother to acknowledge someone as inconsequential as | ||
| Philip Glass? | ||
| I'll take my answers up the air. | ||
| Well, I appreciate the sentiment there. | ||
| First of all, John Lear is a man I've known a long time and I feel a genuine affection | ||
| to John, although I must say I do not feel that the evidence has ever surfaced that would | ||
| support the aliens using us as food, so to speak. | ||
| Those issues, I think, just simply have gotten blown up out of rumors or whatever. | ||
| I've worked with so many abductees for so many years. | ||
| It's now 18 years. | ||
| I've never run into this event, this kind of thing, ever. | ||
| So it's not an issue that I think John's worries here are, let's say, vastly overblown. | ||
| I'm glad you mentioned that paper that I'd written, which was published in I.U.R. | ||
| years ago called What They're Doing to Us, but I still feel that that's an important paper and I think it states my feelings pretty much down to the present time, although I wrote that thing six or seven years ago. | ||
| But in terms of answering nameless questions, People like, I think you mentioned a nameless person a minute ago. | ||
| The reason I, you know, my feeling is that people like this particular individual should simply be frozen out of the dialogue. | ||
| Unless a man is going to be, first of all, truthful, and he's not truthful, he has deliberately lied. | ||
| And also, unless someone is going to be a gentleman and treat people as human beings, Right. | ||
| And so if one's going to try to be a journalist, which he doesn't try to do, for instance, he wrote an entire book attacking about seven or eight people, me very centrally, without interviewing any of us, because obviously it's a terrible thing to get facts in the way of your opinions. | ||
| And so if that's the kind of person you are, from the point of view of serious investigators in this, I think you're absolutely right. | ||
| We shouldn't pay any attention to them. | ||
| And I want to make one very simple point here. | ||
| What you were saying about the analogy with, of course, the Copernican Revolution. | ||
| The interesting thing is that I feel I'm the open person when it comes to belief systems. | ||
| And it is the skeptic, in the traditional scientific sense of vis-à-vis UFOs, People like Carl Sagan, who have this very narrow, rigid belief system. | ||
| Because when somebody tells me an event such as the one we've just heard from the man's report about the desert and so forth, I have three options. | ||
| That the man is a liar, that the man totally made it up. | ||
| The second one is that he's deluded and somehow didn't happen, but he thinks he did. | ||
| Or the third is he's telling me the truth, it really happened. | ||
| I have three options. | ||
| And I lean very strongly to the third in the case of what he was saying, because of the genuine emotion I was picking up in his voice. | ||
| But the true believers, these people with very radical, narrow beliefs, such as the professional scientist of the, like Carl Sagan, who's, I must say, is a very nice man personally, but has this narrow range, he's only limited to the first two options. | ||
| He can't, he doesn't have the breadth to accept the possibility of the third. | ||
| And therefore, his belief system is a narrower belief system, obviously. | ||
| All right. | ||
| Then yours and mine. | ||
| Sure. | ||
| Wild Card Line 3, good evening. | ||
| You're on the air with Bud Hopkins, who's in New York. | ||
| Where are you? | ||
| Oh, hi, Art. | ||
|
unidentified
|
This is Dave. | |
| I'm located in Mohawk Valley between Quincy and Portola. | ||
| Okay. | ||
|
unidentified
|
And in reference to the last caller where he said something about these humans are being used for human food and In reference to that, I did catch the interview many times with John Lear, and he did not ever mention about them being used for human phew. | |
| What your reference to is like enzymes and stuff like that, so I did kind of take reference to that. | ||
| I think the previous caller had his information wrong. | ||
| Okay. | ||
| Thank you. | ||
| All right, thank you. | ||
| Line one, good evening. | ||
| You're on the air with Bud Hopkins in Las Vegas. | ||
|
unidentified
|
How are you doing, Art? | |
| Fine. | ||
| I have a piece of information I read, I don't know if you're familiar with this, by Milton William Cooper on the MJ-12. | ||
| And I was just going to ask a question. | ||
| It tells about, this was a man, sorry, Art. | ||
| Alright, well, he left the line. | ||
| Whoever he was. | ||
| Good evening, you're on the air with Bud Hopkins in Las Vegas. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Hello? | |
| Yes, hello. | ||
| Okay, well, you know, listening on all the waiting for the phone, I got disrupted here. | ||
| How are you, Bud Hockman? | ||
| Fine, how are you? | ||
|
unidentified
|
Okay, now, I've kind of been with you for the last 18 years or so, but you kind of feel like the aliens or some type of evil type of force, but have you been much, just like Earth, there's good and there's bad. | |
| There's been a war on in Heaven for quite some time. | ||
| Have you been aware? | ||
| Well, I just want to say, I'm not getting into disputes as to whether aliens are, you know, gods or devils, which is a kind of theological framework people kind of stuff them into. | ||
| They're neither one. | ||
|
unidentified
|
No, they're one or the other, yes. | |
| Oh, no, they are, yes. | ||
| Well, we have a different theological point of view, and I think it's probably going to be fruitless to continue this. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Okay, no, no, I won't. | |
| We'll just have to agree to disagree, I'm afraid. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Oh, sure, okay, sure. | |
| But you've been doing good work, and Kind of find out what what exactly what's going on because it's uh it's been like a cosmic watergate against our united friends of space surely that the earth is being healed by their uh presence is the hubby telescope the white star that's coming from the mars the mars mission now this is getting down to earth right you can see how rich the hologram is rich | ||
| Uh-huh. | ||
| Well, I'm there, yeah. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Well, the United Nations, are you aware of the 1992, February 27th, at the United Nations, Sir Richard Hulligan's presentation that he done at the Hartsford Library? | |
| Uh-huh. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| You are aware of that? | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| Okay, now you're aware of that, and you still are, are, are, are, why cannot everybody on the, on the, that wants to know the truth, I mean, this Mars mission, it was the most important event, and once again, The government in control of the planet, whether they're Russians, or Americans, or Chinese, or whatnot. | ||
| Silly mortals, right? | ||
| All right, Colin, thank you. | ||
| We're going to hold it there. | ||
| But I want to ask you about how you deal with people who bring up the religious connection. | ||
| How you deal with the whole subject of religion as it mixes in with this. | ||
| It's, of course, a very difficult situation. | ||
| And I found myself once... | ||
| Dealing with a young girl, 13, who had been abducted the night before, along with her mother and her sister. | ||
| They have identical experiences. | ||
| They remember the whole thing in great detail the next morning. | ||
| And the 13-year-old was a born-again Christian who wanted to be a missionary and so forth, and was in tears, and absolutely terrified by what had happened, and felt that her religion had been challenged. | ||
| Right. | ||
| And she prayed to God to save her when she was on the table. | ||
| These experiments were being done. | ||
| And I found myself in a position of trying to defend her faith by saying that, of course, at the time of Copernicus, the belief was that if this was to be understood, that the earth was not the center of the universe, then not all religion was over with. | ||
| And I said, of course, that belief has been accepted, that we're not the center of the universe, and religion is thriving. | ||
| And I also pointed out that there must have been other times in her life when she prayed and her prayers were not answered. | ||
| And if that has ever happened to her, then she would have to realize that maybe there's some theological reasons for all this has happened, and that perhaps the theologians of her religion will make sense somehow of the presence of another life form, which is different from ours. | ||
| I think that the religious people of the world are just going to have to face this, and try to reconcile this new information with their religious beliefs. | ||
| Okay, good evening. | ||
| You're on the air with Bud Hopkins in Las Vegas. | ||
| Bud's in New York. | ||
| Where are you, please? | ||
|
unidentified
|
San Diego. | |
| San Diego. | ||
| Go ahead, sir. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Do you ever share information from adeptees with government officials? | |
| Do I? | ||
|
unidentified
|
Yes. | |
| Well, let's put it this way. | ||
| Not knowingly, in the sense that I don't have any government officials Knocking on my door asking for information, but I would say that what I'm doing this very moment as you and I are speaking is sharing information, I certainly hope, with government agents because I hope there's somebody listening in to get a little bit of enlightenment on this subject who works for the government. | ||
| I was giving a talk just recently in Connecticut and a woman came over and said, there are several government agents in the audience. | ||
| And I said, good, I wish there were 50 of them in the audience. | ||
| They need to hear what I have to say. | ||
|
unidentified
|
So why do they need to hear what you say when they should have most of the information? | |
| Well, because obviously not everybody in the government, probably only a very, very tiny few in the government, which is my guess on this, because need to know is the way these things operate, really know what's going on. | ||
| And the rest are quite confused. | ||
| And people in the government who don't know about the reality of this, could be of use in helping the government, help push the | ||
| government towards a greater attitude of openness. | ||
|
unidentified
|
So you're saying it's like all top-secret information that doesn't get, | |
| doesn't go down to the lower levels? Oh, well, you can have a CIA operative, I'm sure. I've read enough | ||
| about how this works. | ||
| You can have a CIA operative who knows everything that's going on in Cuba and not a darn thing | ||
| that's going on in Poland because no one is going to tell him because he doesn't have a need to know what's going on | ||
| in Poland. | ||
| He's just as ignorant. | ||
| Everything is in little compartments. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Oh, absolutely. | |
| That's the way the telecommunications work. | ||
| And I'm certain that with the UFO material, it has been very highly restricted to just very, very narrow ranges. | ||
| Otherwise, we'd have more people coming forward. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Okay. | |
| So I thank you for your raising the point. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Thank you. | |
| All right. | ||
| Thank you, caller. | ||
| And I guess that is true, isn't it? | ||
| And so do you get a lot of interest? | ||
| Have you ever had government people walk up to you, Bud, and ask you questions about this? | ||
|
unidentified
|
Well, as I say, not in any formal, official way, Lord knows. | |
| You know, I suppose the government probably knows quite a lot about what I do, that I'm not aware of. | ||
| But I have had a NASA scientist come to me as an abductee, on a personal private level asking to have the experience of personal experience looked into through regressive hypnosis. | ||
| I had a full colonel in the army who had quite an important job in extremely high clearances and I worked with him and on it goes. | ||
| So there's absolutely no reason to think with the phenomenons widespread as it is that there aren't people in the senate and Lord knows, perhaps the Cabinet, the Supreme Court, other people who are also abductees. | ||
| Will you ever make public this person you talked about earlier, a political type person, will that ever become public? | ||
| Well, my profound hope is that he comes forward himself. | ||
| Are you urging him to do that? | ||
|
unidentified
|
I am. | |
| You are? | ||
| And he is very aware of of the implications of the situation absolutely is. | ||
| Sure. | ||
| Line two, thanks for waiting so long. | ||
| You're on the air with Bud Hopkins. | ||
| Hi, Art. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Hi. | |
| Hi there. | ||
| I talked to you one time, Bud, when you were here at the library and I didn't get the chance | ||
| to finish my story because the lady came up about her child which seemed very significant | ||
| and I backed off. | ||
| But did you ever hear about the Northern Cheyenne Indian Reservation up in Busby? | ||
| The whole tribe thing? | ||
| The Flint Crossers? | ||
| Well, it's possible. | ||
| I've heard about it and it doesn't register right now. | ||
|
unidentified
|
I hear about so many things, so many cases. | |
| But I know there have been It's going to have to be fast, ma'am. | ||
| Pardon me? | ||
|
unidentified
|
I'm sorry, it's going to have to be fast. | |
| 1970. It's going to have to be fast ma'am. Pardon me? I'm sorry, it's going to have to be fast. We're running out of | ||
| time. | ||
|
unidentified
|
I'll just tell you what, two years later I went up and was doing business in Murphy's and the Indians all told me | |
| about, that you know they went out on their cars to sit and watch | ||
| the parachute drop over that area. | ||
| And they had great big B-29s and everything running out there with the... Ma'am, we're never going to finish this story if you don't hurry. | ||
|
unidentified
|
They saw three flying saucers over every one of the airplanes. | |
| The whole tribe saw them. | ||
| It was about 1970. | ||
| All right, thank you very much for relating that. | ||
| Sorry we didn't have more time. | ||
| Bud, we don't have more time. | ||
| It has been again wonderful, and I'm sure we'll connect again, Bud. | ||
| I will try and get your address out one more time here. | ||
| It's ififbox30233 in New York, New York, 10011. | ||
| And Bud, anything in particular that you want to hear about? | ||
| Well, again, if people feel that they may have had this sort of experience, Good morning. | ||
| Good evening. | ||
| a little anxiety and trouble. | ||
| They would like to get some information about whether or not they should explore it and how to go about it. | ||
| Those are the people I would like to hear from. | ||
| All right. As always, Bud, it's been a pleasure. Thank you. | ||
| It's been my pleasure. Thank you. | ||
| Take care. That's it for Area 2000 this week. | ||
| Good morning. | ||
| Good evening. | ||
| The preceding program was made possible by a grant from the Bigelow Foundation. | ||
| This has been Area 2000, a program that introduces our listeners to the scientific approach for discussion of two | ||
| particular subjects, UFOs and near-death and after-death experiences. | ||
| To contact the Bigelow Foundation, please call during the week between 9 a.m. | ||
| and 5 p.m. | ||
| Area code 702-456-1606. | ||
| Ask for Angela Thompson. | ||
| That's area code 702-456-1606. | ||
| And be with us next Sunday evening at 8 for another edition of Area 2000. |
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