Oct. 24, 1993 - Art Bell
01:47:50
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| This program introduces our listeners to the scientific approach to discussion of two particular subjects UFOs and near-death and after-death experiences To contact the Bigelow Foundation during the work week, call Angela Thompson between 9 a.m. | ||
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and 5 p.m. | |
| at area code 702-456-1606. | ||
| at area code 702-456-1606. | ||
| That's Angela Thompson at area code 702-456-1606. | ||
| And now, Area 2000. | ||
| Good evening, everybody! | ||
| Welcome to Area 2000! | ||
| Good evening, I'm Art Bell. | ||
| It's gonna be kind of a fun night tonight. | ||
| We're gonna have our usual report from Angela Thompson, and we're going to reverse order this evening. | ||
| Because our guest for the entire evening is going to be George Knapp. | ||
| And I've very much been looking forward to this. | ||
| He, of course, provides us with a regular report. | ||
| At the beginning of most of the Area 2000 shows, he's been investigating the UFO phenomenon now for years, and actually is considered to be one of the, uh, uh, in fact, I guess he is considered to be the leading journalist who's been looking into the UFO phenomenon. | ||
| So, I wish you, I bid you all a good evening, on behalf of the Bigelow Foundation, and let's go all the way to Philadelphia for a glimpse at yet another reality. | ||
| Here from Philadelphia is Linda Howe. | ||
| Good evening, Linda. | ||
| Hi. | ||
| Hi. | ||
| Well, tonight, I thought what I'd do would be to give you an update on animal mutilations before you go into the full interview with George, The Kitchen Son. | ||
| I have a very interesting mutilation update from a place called Vendor, Arkansas, which is about 50 miles southeast of Eureka Springs. | ||
| On Wednesday, September 1, about a month and a half ago, cattle farmer Mark Ewing checked all his cows, and they were well, including one of his two-year-old pregnant cows. | ||
| The next day, on September 2, Ewing, and as usual, defeated the herd, and the cows ran away from him as if spooked by something that he could not see. | ||
| And that night, there was a huge thunderstorm, and Mr. Ewing's daughter, Kathy Royce, who lived about 400 yards from her father's farmhouse, said that she heard a very strange sound like the roar of an ocean in that storm. | ||
| Then, on Saturday morning, September 4th, Mr. Ewing found 20 feet of his electrical wire missing from the fence that he kept around his cattle in the cattle pasture. | ||
| While trying to find the missing wire, he could see that his pregnant two-year-old cow was lying in an odd manner with her right legs folded under her and her left leg sticking straight out, he said, as if something dropped her straight down in her tracks. | ||
| Mr. Ewing had six dogs with him that ran ahead to the cow before he got there and they began sniffing her body. | ||
| Suddenly, all six dogs began barking and yelping as if frightened By something Mr. Ewing could not see. | ||
| All six dogs ran from the cow back to the house 200 yards away and remained agitated for the next three days. | ||
| And I thought of the chariots in southern England when I was there in August that I reported earlier in Area 2000 where he had two spear mutilations and a couple of days in and around those mutilations his cows went into a panic and stampeded against him and scared the English farmer. | ||
| Mr. Ewing said that before he could get to the cow with the dogs running past him that he felt suddenly like he should not go to where the animal lay and he turned around and he went back home without investigating the cow and said he didn't really understand his own actions. | ||
| And it took him about three and a half hours to decide that he had to go and look at the cow. | ||
| So about 6.30 or 7 o'clock in the evening on Saturday, September 4th He did go and he was shocked at what he found. | ||
| The first thing that he noticed was that the unborn calf, a portion of its face, was protruding an inch or so from out of the vagina. | ||
| But he could see that the cow and the calf were both dead. | ||
| There was a very similar case in Alabama earlier this year in January where the Vice Police Department and others investigated a cow that was dead and mutilated. | ||
| The udder had been removed and the calf was also partially out of the vaginal opening and also dead and mutilated. | ||
| Well, Mr. Ewing When he further checked to see, the typical, the jaw had been stripped on the left side, um, and the, there was a hole, a strange small hole, underneath the vaginal opening. | ||
| And he called the, uh, sheriff's office, and a deputy came out, and made a report, and when the deputy got there the next morning, on Sunday, the deputy wrote in his report that he was looking at Cut with sharp instruments on an animal in which the hole underneath the vaginal opening was a square and Mr. Ewing was surprised that it had changed shape from the night before because it had been round and smaller and when the deputy came it was square and larger and they discovered that the cap was now completely removed and yet they could find no evidence of | ||
| The embryo sac, the umbilical cord, the calf, there was no fluid, there was nothing, and the pregnant cow was now, her stomach was flat, abnormally so. | ||
| The deputy officially listed this as cut with a sharp instrument, cuts that were smooth, and the deputy noted that there was an absence of blood in these excisions. | ||
| Now, they did check for bullets or stab wounds. | ||
| They did not find any, and while they were looking, they discovered that the tongue was removed in the throat, but the eyes and ears were completely in place. | ||
| There were no signs of struggle around the cow, even though the ground was damp from the rain. | ||
| It was as if the animal had simply dropped in her tracks. | ||
| One interesting thing that happened after they had found this animal, was that Mr. Ewing's son-in-law, Mr. Royce, who lives nearby, a few nights later was coming home and saw a huge, unidentified, he said, ball of light that was lighting up the entire side of a mountain near their home. | ||
| From it, he could see two beams of light coming from the huge ball of light as if they were searchlights searching the ground From approximately treetop level. | ||
| The son-in-law said that the light, he saw it around 1 a.m. | ||
| on September 19th, and that he watched it for at least 10 to 15 minutes, but no one else in his family was there to see this large light with these beams coming out of it. | ||
| Investigators in that Arkansas area have now checked with other neighbors to see if anyone has had any other mutilation reports or heard or saw anything unusual that first week or two in September. | ||
| And so far, no one has outside of the son-in-law and then Mr. Ewing's mutilation case. | ||
| But, subsequent to this, there has been now a report, apparently, of a dog mutilation in that area, and investigators are trying to see if they can get some photographs. | ||
| And I bring this up for any of the listeners in your own local areas who may have heard about any unusual happenings with animals. | ||
| I would appreciate being notified either through our bell in Area 2000 or directly to my address. | ||
| Because this is the kind of phenomenon that you don't hear about in national news. | ||
| In this case, this very unusual story that has so many facets to it would not have reached me or anyone if one reporter in a very small newspaper did two or three lines about the fact that Mr. Ewing had lost his town. | ||
| And then when the case was investigated, it turns out that it has all of these highly strange facets to it. | ||
| So this is the only way we can keep up with this strange phenomenon. | ||
| Linda, you know, if you push aside the UFO connection for just a moment, with all of these mutilations, and you simply try to consider what terrestrial phenomenon or motive or persons might be doing this, what are you able to produce in terms of ideas? | ||
| about what might be doing this if it's not UFO related. | ||
| Well, this goes back to the documentary I did 14 years ago with Strange Harvest in which I talked with law enforcement about all sorts of things ranging from the satanic cult hypothesis to the possibility of the government carrying on some kind of an environmental contamination experiment. | ||
| Exactly. | ||
| Do any of those stand up? | ||
| No, they have never stood up. | ||
| When you get down to the fact that in the pathology examinations of tissues on now over 30 animals that we've been able to look at under a microscope and you find that the hemoglobin has been cooked at the excision sites, you know automatically you're separating out the cases from disease and from predator. | ||
| And when it comes to the issue of satanic cults, why would a satanic cult and even how would they have the resources To carry on a global, this is a worldwide phenomenon, for 30 years at least, going back to the 60s, being able to get in and out of sandy sandbars and snow and wet ground without leaving a track, and leave these animals in the strange, bizarre fashion that I just described should happen in Arkansas in September, | ||
| And do so with some kind of equipment that could exercise tissue with high heat. | ||
| The smallest portable rovers that it would throw about 500 pounds and you could take a team of people to set up. | ||
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Sorry, that point's well made. | |
| Suppose you go the other way then, Linda. | ||
| In what percentage of the animal mutilation cases is there a connection to some unidentified object? | ||
| It derives from the very beginning of that horse in Southern Colorado that made the newspapers globally as Snippy the horse, but in fact it was a female horse named Lady. | ||
| The reporter got the name wrong and the set wrong at the time, but there had been so many sightings of strange lights, round disks, small stubby wings, things that people said looked like little tiny airplanes zooming around in the San Luis Valley of Southern Colorado, but they didn't know what they were, that when this horse was found stripped of flesh from the neck up, And no tracks around it in the dusty southern Colorado ground in September of 67. | ||
| And that the closest tracks to the horse's body were about 100 yards away, where the horse itself, you could see that the hooves had gone prancing around in some kind of a frantic circle. | ||
| And there was evidence of heat on one of the bushes near this horse's body. | ||
| Everything was highly strange, never explained, and the headlines themselves said, quote-unquote, did a UFO zap this horse in Colorado? | ||
| So right from the beginning, there was an association with odd things in the sky, and these strange animal deaths, and throughout the decades, there has always been some kind of a connection to orange lights, or bizarre lights, or What a lot of people have said look like the searchlights from helicopters coming down in pastures where they later found mutilated animals. | ||
| Hmm. | ||
| All right. | ||
| Fascinating. | ||
| Fascinating. | ||
| So there is a better connection to the UFO phenomenon than there is to the possibility of some terrestrial something or another. | ||
| So when I began as a TV reporter working on this story 14 years ago and doing a documentary about it, I was not thinking in terms of the UFO phenomenon or anything that was non-terrestrial at the time. | ||
| I began with the idea that I was getting into some kind of an environmental contamination story. | ||
| So that, in other words, it is not something that you tried from the beginning to connect, but rather a connection that you found? | ||
| No, I had no association with any of this high strangeness material at all in my life. | ||
| I was focused entirely in science and medicine and environmental issues, which I thought this was one issue. | ||
| But it was the interviews with the sheriffs and the deputies and the fellow journalists and the few veterinarians who would talk with me off the record, who told me off the record all of their encounters with these bizarre strange life. | ||
| So then Linda, this is actually how you came to this topic in the first place. | ||
| Right, as an environmental story. | ||
| I see. | ||
| That lends a lot of credibility to it. | ||
| Well that's some story, Linda. | ||
| And when we talk on, again I think on November 7th, I can go into that in more depth for | ||
| you, but I was a journalist working in science, medicine, the environment, long before I did | ||
| strange harvest. | ||
| And A Strange Harvest was a documentary that I did 14 years ago, and since then I have done many other documentaries and done many other investigations on issues that are related to all kinds of other subjects, but I think that these phenomenon of animal mutilations and human abductions, the classical phenomenon, All of this that I'm calling glimpses of other realities are something that we should be paying a great deal more attention to because the implications for our planet could be something in the future that we have underestimated. | ||
| Well, I'm sure glad we've got you out there looking into this. | ||
| Well, I'm trying. | ||
| All right, Linda, thank you. | ||
| Keep up the good work. | ||
| Yep, and talk to you next Sunday. | ||
| Take care. | ||
| That's Linda Howe and her glimpse into another reality. | ||
| Isn't that something? | ||
| I never realized that Linda came to her present field of interest and its relationship to UFOs through other scientific research. | ||
| And as I said that, I think that lends more credibility to what she's doing. | ||
| All right, onward. | ||
| George Knapp is an award-winning investigative reporter whose previous documentaries on the UFO topic are considered to be among the best ever produced. | ||
| His UFO investigations have been honored by UPI, that's United Press International, Associated Press, and the Fund for UFO Research. | ||
| In 1989, Knapp first broadcast allegations by controversial physicist Bob Lazar concerning secret programs in the Nevada desert. | ||
| Those allegations attracted worldwide attention. | ||
| Knapp earned a master's degree in communications from the University of the Pacific, where he also taught public speaking and coached the debate team. | ||
| He's taught communications and journalism at other colleges, including the University of California at Berkeley, Cal Poly, Loyola University, and UNLV. | ||
| Currently, George is senior vice president at Altamira Communications in Las Vegas, Nevada. | ||
| Uh, where, uh, he is producing a multi-part comprehensive UFO documentary series, including research obtained from his March 1993 fact-finding trip to Russia. | ||
| You all know him. | ||
| He does a report here weekly, and it's high time that we had him as a guest. | ||
| And yes, you will be able to ask George questions, uh, uh, very shortly. | ||
| So, uh, let us go, and strangely enough, I had to come from Pahrump, Nevada to Las Vegas to do the program. | ||
| George has gone from Las Vegas to where he's spending, I guess, the night in Pahrump, Nevada. | ||
| So to Pahrump, Nevada and George Knapp. | ||
| Hi, George. | ||
| Hey, Art. | ||
| How you doing? | ||
| Fine. | ||
| It is kind of a cross we've made here. | ||
| It's kind of weird, yeah, but it's a real nice place out here. | ||
| Oh, it's beautiful in Pahrump. | ||
| As a matter of fact, keep your eyes open out there, George. | ||
| I know. | ||
| I've heard some very prominent broadcast personalities and seen some interesting things out here. | ||
| So it has been reported. | ||
| All right. | ||
| Where to start with you, George? | ||
| I think since we've got you for a greater period of time, let's find out a little bit about your history. | ||
| I know that you were a very traditional, and I guess still are, journalist. | ||
| You worked for Las Vegas Television. | ||
| Give us a little idea of where your career has been. | ||
| Well, it jumped all over the map before I got into journalism. | ||
| As you mentioned, I did some teaching and debate coaching and things of that nature. | ||
| I ended up in Las Vegas almost on a whim and weaseled my way into television and into news. | ||
| Traditionally, that would be a good way to describe my approach to news. | ||
| I did all the stories that investigative reporters do. | ||
| worked a lot of organized crime stuff a lot of political corruption and political coverage the legislature | ||
| uh... all of those sorts of things so i was very much grounded in the basics of journalism | ||
| and had never really given any thought to ufo's until nineteen seventy seven | ||
| uh... george i had always thought of you as the heir apparent here in las vegas | ||
| to reporting on mob activities Oh, sure, because my mentor, in essence, was a guy named Ned Day. | ||
| Sure. | ||
| Who, you know, he taught me a lot of what I know and taught me the basics about the ethics of journalism. | ||
| And I learned a lot from him. | ||
| And it was coincidental that because Ned was not interested in UFOs is why I did get interested. | ||
| In 1987, a guy named John Lear came walking into the TV station, and John had been an important source of Ned's on a story about stealth technology. | ||
| Ned broke that story before any other reporter in the country had it, and I think John was partially responsible for the information that led to the story. | ||
| Well, John came into the station with the MJ-12 documents and a pile of other UFO-related material and was trying to sell Ned on getting interested in it. | ||
| Ned was having no parts of it. | ||
| I, of course, was eavesdropping, as always, and John was heading out the door. | ||
| I said, just one moment. | ||
| Yeah, I suppose that's how it happened. | ||
| So you stopped him and said, wait a minute, I want to look at that stuff. | ||
| Exactly. | ||
| Sure, let me take a look at this stuff. | ||
| And I think, you know, I have the same kind of attitude that most people have about UFOs in those days. | ||
| I mean, it's interesting, but show me something. | ||
| The MJ-12 documents were intriguing at that point. | ||
| I didn't know if they were real or not. | ||
| The other material that John opened up to me was even more interesting. | ||
| I'll have to say this at this point, that John and I part ways on a great number of issues and controversies in the UFO area. | ||
| He believes a lot of stuff that I don't necessarily think is supportable, but he was definitely instrumental in getting me going into the field and opened up his files. | ||
| And for that reason, I guess I'll owe him a debt of gratitude. | ||
| Anyway, it didn't take very long, uh, it didn't take long at all, uh, to realize after reviewing some of the material that was available, some of the books, some of the documents, some of the really credible people who were out there working on it, that there really is a body of information, uh, concerning UFOs and the alien presence of, alien for want, lack of a better term, indicates that it's real. | ||
| And, uh, I just couldn't believe after seeing some of the material that other mainstream journalists had not taken a fair, And serious look at the topic. | ||
| I have a very good copy at home of UFOs The Best Evidence. | ||
| And it certainly is, without a doubt, I think the best thing ever produced in the area. | ||
| And so I guess your interest then, while you were still there in television, local television, culminated in that, didn't it? | ||
| Sure did. | ||
| It started with having John come on this little public affairs program I did called On the Record. | ||
| It's a show that, you know, you have a politician one week and somebody trying to sell a book the next week. | ||
| And basically no one watches it. | ||
| You know, it's a very small... | ||
| Well, John came on, and all of a sudden my phone started lighting up. | ||
| I had him on again, and the public response was incredible. | ||
| People were obviously hungry for this sort of information, and it occurred to me that this seems to touch something with the public pulse, and the more I did on it, the more response I got from the public, which also made it curious to me why other mainstream journalists would not take a fair look at it, because after all, ratings are part of the business. | ||
| Oh, there's no question about it. | ||
| But you're also right. | ||
| It really touches something in the public, and this is something I've observed doing shows on it over the years, George. | ||
| There is more interest in this than I think the average person can imagine. | ||
| Surely the anchors who laugh it off as the final story, generally, in a newscast, if there's something to be said, I don't think they understand how much real interest, significant interest, mainstream interest, there is out there. | ||
| Oh, they wouldn't, unless they did something serious on it, because, you know, I travel around all over the world, and there is an innate sense among regular people everywhere that this is real. | ||
| Now, they don't fully understand what it is, but they know something's going on. | ||
| Something's going on with the planet, there's some kind of other intelligence that's interacting with us. | ||
| It's almost a subconscious kind of an understanding. | ||
| And people in the public eye, the news anchors who scoff, they're going to have to get the message sooner or later because it's real, it's out there, and regular people all over the world know it. | ||
| How much damage, George, was there to your mainstream journalistic career? | ||
| In your opinion, when you began doing this, certainly prior to, just prior to, and definitely after Best Evidence, your name became connected with the UFO phenomenon. | ||
| And how did that affect your career? | ||
| Well, I guess there was quite a bit of damage in one sense. | ||
| The damage being with my colleagues, and I've talked to Linda Howe about this before as well. | ||
| You know, you can do all the stories in the world, about organized crime and corruption and things like that | ||
| and win this award and get this person fired and do whatever but when you when you tackle | ||
| something like this suddenly you're not the same person anymore and it's hard to figure out why. With my | ||
| colleagues I think there was a lot of damage but with the people that counted the viewing | ||
| audience the general public it was it was a big plus. | ||
| There were a lot of snide comments made in the newspapers here in Las Vegas. | ||
| Those are still going on. | ||
| Editorial cartoons that are very funny, and that's part of the territory, and I don't like it. | ||
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Some of the shots have been really nasty, and the V.R.J. | |
| has been able to grab the pragmatic methodology of Mark Ronson. | ||
| So I've done a series of plays about alien abduction. | ||
| alien abduction. I was very careful with, you know, it didn't necessarily have to be as true as it is true to begin with. | ||
| And it's up to them, of course, because I was trained to assess people's stories. | ||
| I had to present it. I had a lot of experience when I was in the military. | ||
| I was drafted, and I was called in as a member of the 7th and 5th Battalion, | ||
| I love this place, I love this place. | ||
| I'm a proper rap star. | ||
| Absolutely. Let me quickly ID the station, George. We'll be right back. | ||
| Good evening, everybody. You're listening to Area 2000. | ||
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From Jackie Gons' Plaza downtown, this is KDWN Las Vegas. | |
| you Good evening from Las Vegas. | ||
| We will in a bit have the lines open. | ||
| You'll be able to ask George Knapp a question. | ||
| He's a man who has, in a way, sacrificed a mainstream career to begin looking into something that all of you I know find fascinating, the world of UFOs. | ||
| And, uh, toward that end, George, are you still there? | ||
| Certainly. | ||
| Good. | ||
| Um, with all of the investigation you've done, from then, when you began, until now, | ||
| um, are you, and I ask everybody this, are you convinced, absolutely convinced, that we are being visited? | ||
| Yes. I would have to say yes. | ||
| I don't, uh, I don't understand the cosmic implications of it, uh, uh. | ||
| I think Linda has a much better grasp on that. | ||
| There are certainly people who are much deeper thinkers than I am in terms of what these beings are, where they're from, or why they could be here. | ||
| But there definitely is an interaction. | ||
| There's an intelligence. | ||
| I don't understand the big picture. | ||
| As a reporter, I'm more interested in the government's response to the phenomenon than the phenomenon itself. | ||
| But it, in my mind, is definitely real. | ||
| In your mind, George, is it benign or malevolent? | ||
| I would have to say benign. | ||
| Perhaps even... The technology demonstrated is too powerful. | ||
| If it was going to be benevolent, they could certainly help us. | ||
| If they were going to be malevolent, they could certainly hurt us. | ||
| And it doesn't appear that they've been willing to do either. | ||
| They seem to be Whatever it is, they seem to be more interested in helping themselves with something that we have that they need. | ||
| That's the best nutshell I can put it in. | ||
| All right. | ||
| Let's back up a little bit. | ||
| Really, you're the fellow who broke the whole Lazar business. | ||
| Bob Lazar has been a hot topic and still is. | ||
| His story, you've had a lot of time to digest it, plenty of time to talk to Bob Lazar and look into his story. | ||
| What have you concluded? | ||
| Well, I think Bob is telling the truth. | ||
| Now, whether that is absolute truth that everything that he said he saw is real and true and out there, I don't know. | ||
| I mean, even Bob will admit that there were some games played with his mind by these people, that the folks who are running this program are experts in disinformation, that they may have ulterior motives in dealing with it. | ||
| But I know that the story that Bob told me the first time I met him is the same story he's telling today. | ||
| A lot of it checks out. | ||
| Now, there are gaps. | ||
| There's no question about it. | ||
| Things which cannot be documented. | ||
| There are things in his story which do not make sense. | ||
| But there is too much information, too much circumstantial, too much corroborative information about what he has said that checks out to simply dismiss it. | ||
| I guess the fun thing, the cool thing to say in UFO circles these days is that it's all some sort of a disinformation plot, and a lot of people believe that Bob is part of that plot. | ||
| I can tell you flat out, categorically, that that is not the case. | ||
| Bob may have been used to some extent, but I believe that he is telling the truth about what he saw out there. | ||
| That's basically the bottom line. | ||
| How are the publications, the various UFO publications, treating the Lazar story? | ||
| Pretty poorly. | ||
| In general, like I said, it got cool to say it's all disinformation. | ||
| There was one very prominent UFO publication that sent some people out to the Rachel get-together a couple of months ago, and the article generally focused on Bob, the fact that he drove up in a Corvette, and that he was wearing a white turtleneck, and he had this female flame on his arm, and he had a Hollywood hairdo, those sorts of things. | ||
| Of course, the mainstream press has been even nastier. | ||
| You know, it's amazing to me, after we did our stories, the series in 1989, | ||
| everyone took pot shots at it, but none of the other media here in Nevada | ||
| were willing to send a reporter 80 miles up the road to check this stuff out. | ||
| Now, this is a heck of a big story. | ||
| It's a heck of a big story if it's true. | ||
| It's a very interesting story if it's not true. | ||
| That just plain doesn't make any sense. | ||
| Doesn't make any sense, especially the R.J., which has been the most vehement critic about this stuff. | ||
| The first time I ever heard or read the rumors about alien technology at Area 51, it was reported just as that. | ||
| A rumor in an R.J. | ||
| story about the military land seizure around Broome Lake. | ||
| It's interesting to me that they felt it was sufficiently interesting to throw it into a story that there's a rumor about alien technology, but didn't find it sufficiently interesting to actually assign a reporter to it and check it out. | ||
| Well, that just doesn't make sense. | ||
| As you know, I live out there where you are at the moment, and I have my own little sighting. | ||
| Fairly serious sighting, George. | ||
| And the newspaper in front of that printed a story the week after I had my sighting. | ||
| We're talking about a classified C-130 mission. | ||
| I couldn't believe it. | ||
| A C-130 is insulting. | ||
| This gigantic triangular thing floated slowly and silently above me and they try to tell me it's a C-130. | ||
| Is that typical? | ||
| It certainly is. | ||
| I remember the story about the flight of a Japan Airlines flight between Japan and Alaska. | ||
| These pilots Watch this gigantic walnut-shaped object twice the size of a battleship follow their plane. | ||
| This thing was picked up on airborne radar. | ||
| It was picked up on ground radar. | ||
| The pilots themselves saw this thing and followed it for a long period of time. | ||
| They later denied the radar, didn't they? | ||
| Well, I think so, but, uh, there are all kinds of pressures can be brought to bear on a thing. | ||
| You know, they tried to say that it was planet Venus right off the bat before the... Oh, excuse me, Jupiter. | ||
| Jupiter? | ||
| Planet Jupiter, twice the size of a battleship. | ||
| Well, that's insulting to the pilots, you know. | ||
| That's insulting to anyone's common sense that Jupiter does not look... | ||
| Like a giant flying walnut. | ||
| That kind of stuff goes on all the time. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| After I read this article in the paper that a lady was kind enough to send me, I just was flat angry. | ||
| My whole face flushed. | ||
| I was so angry I couldn't believe it. | ||
| Whoever is on the other side is very good. | ||
| You know, I subscribe to something. | ||
| There's a little bulletin called the Secrecy in Government Bulletin that comes out. | ||
| It's published by the Federation of American Scientists. | ||
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And they don't deal with the UFO topic so much, but they do deal with all kinds of government secrecy issues. | |
| One of the things their most recent issue got reflected, Star Wars is actually getting launched. | ||
| Therefore, it might be faster for Star Wars to get further ahead. | ||
| As part of the article that talked about the special access program, they have actual written rules, written regulations that specify what can and cannot be done in disinformation campaigns. | ||
| No kidding. | ||
| You don't happen to have copies of those? | ||
| I certainly do. | ||
| Oh, you do? | ||
| That's another one I would like to see. | ||
| And speaking of things I would like to see, tell the audience again, if you would please, about a picture that you had possession of for a while here. | ||
| Let me set it up this way, is that Bob Lazar, for those who don't know, had said that he worked at an area on the Bob is a pretty bright guy. | ||
| on the Hapus dry lake bed, which is just a few miles south of the Groom dry lake bed, | ||
| he said that there were hangars built into the side of a mountain adjacent to the to this | ||
| dry lake bed, but inside these hangars were alien saucers, disks, one of which he saw fly. | ||
| Nine of them are. Nine of them. And Bob is a | ||
| pretty bright guy. He says that the physics involved in the propulsion system is not of Earth origin and | ||
| It's been one heck of a struggle to try to prove that what Bob is saying is true. | ||
| And I can tell you this, two people that I know with high-level security clearances have been to the Pat Booth area in the last three months. | ||
| And, uh, both say that they flew over this area, there are no hangars, there are no saucers, there are no indications there has ever been anything there, if what Bob is saying is true. | ||
| Is that still restricted airspace? | ||
| It is restricted airspace. | ||
| The whole area, Area 51, Groom Lake, Papua, is very highly restricted. | ||
| So they took their chances then? | ||
| Yeah, the Nellis pilots refer to it as the box, because if you fly into that area, your butt is in trouble. | ||
| Anyway, it's been difficult to prove that there was anything ever going on there. | ||
| One of my sources who was out there was told there had never been any programs at Papoose, and in fact that the dry lake bed was still so contaminated from radioactive tests years ago that nothing could go on there, which is just an absolute pack of baloney. | ||
| There aren't that many hotspots still out at the Nevada Test Site, and I now have documentation to prove that. | ||
| A company in California associated with a movie studio that wants to produce a story about Bob Lazar's life and experiences at Papoose sprung for Soviet satellite photos. | ||
| And they went back to 1988, bought this photo at a fairly exorbitant price to zero in on the Papoose Lake area to see what they could see. | ||
| The photo that I was shown shows It's a flying saucer, Art. | ||
| I mean, there's no other way to describe it. | ||
| It's a big, fat flying saucer caught in the air flying over Paproos Lake. | ||
| That is incredible. | ||
| It's being analyzed by some folks who formerly worked for NASA. | ||
| Yep. | ||
| I am told that additional analysis is being done on the photos. | ||
| Additional photos are trying to be obtained. | ||
| And that not only this disc is caught in the air, but that there are roads leading into the area where Bob Lazar said hangars were, that black buses are parked outside. | ||
| And what I would suggest is, Bob was telling the truth, and somebody has destroyed the hangars, moved the equipment, and tried to cover it up. | ||
| George, I've heard a lot about photographic analysis. | ||
| I've had some experts say that in this day of digital technology, just about anything can be faked. | ||
| How well do you suppose are they going to be able to nail down the authenticity of this photograph? | ||
| Oh, the people who I've been told are working on this are just about as good as you get. | ||
| And if it's a fake, they should be able to tell it because, again, there's a company that bought the photos. | ||
| It's other people, independent people, and I'll... So the origin of the photos is well known. | ||
| They're Russian, and I guess the Russians sell just about anything these days. | ||
| Exactly right, and I suspect that if the photos had been touched up and somebody wanted to prove that, it's a very simple matter because I know the date of the... | ||
| The photo was taken and anybody could go to the Russians if they want to pony up the box and get their own copy and see if it was if it was phony. | ||
| It's interesting to note also, Art, that... Do you know the satellite that took them? | ||
| Because that might be another way to confirm, George. | ||
| You could literally, if you have the name of the satellite, the Russian satellite that took the photograph, you could look at orbital tracks and determine that on that day and that time, it was in that area. | ||
| It is known to the people who bought the photo. | ||
| I don't know it offhand, but yes, it is known. | ||
| So that would be another good way to check. | ||
| It's interesting also that the Russians were taking regular photos of that area out there on an ongoing basis before May of 1989. | ||
| They'd do one a month, two a month, something like that. | ||
| After May of 1989, all of a sudden, the Russians started taking photos like crazy. | ||
| Now, along with the photos, they will give you a list of all the photos that they have, all the times and dates of when they took snapshots of that area. | ||
| And before the May of 1989, they'd take one or two here and there. | ||
| After May of 1989, they were taking them basically every day. | ||
| What happened in May of 1989 is that was Bob Legar's first appearance on KLAF-TV. | ||
| It'd be a coincidence. | ||
| Maybe not. | ||
| Maybe they saw that technology flying about and threw up their hands and said, that's it, we quit. | ||
| Oh, could be. | ||
| But, you know, Bob had suggested that the Russians were in on that program at one point. | ||
| That some kind of a discovery was made at some point, at least that's what he has been told, and the Russians have ruled it out. | ||
| Oh, wow. | ||
| Well, of course, we had Ronald Reagan back at that point saying that we were going to share Star Wars technology with him. | ||
| Do you recall? | ||
| I certainly do. | ||
| That was the occasion for it. | ||
| There are a lot of interesting connections to the Star Wars program. | ||
| Bob has said he's been told that money was being funneled out of that program in order to fund the saucer research. | ||
| I learned a lot about, in Russia, about a connection with the Star Wars All right, what about the whole aspect of government cover-up? | ||
| You say you're sure they are here? | ||
| That means, surely, that our government knows perhaps they're Playing about with some of the technology, I can imagine that, which I saw out there, could have used that sort of technology. | ||
| I can't imagine what else would have done it. | ||
| At any rate, so the government knows. | ||
| They've been keeping it secret all this time. | ||
| This is a standard government cover-up question, George. | ||
| How can they keep it secret? | ||
| Well, as Linda Howell has said to me in interviews, you know, you have to have a context in which to view this story. | ||
| People talk. | ||
| Documents leak. | ||
| Books are written. | ||
| But unless you have the proper context to evaluate it, it doesn't mean anything in a person's day-to-day life. | ||
| This is a non-secret secret. | ||
| I mean, enough people have talked about it. | ||
| There's enough information out there. | ||
| For example, a journalist like myself, who wants to take the time to look at it, can't help but come away persuaded that this is really going on, that there really is a cover-up. | ||
| Yeah, but isn't it a little like the Kennedy conspiracy in the sense that there actually is so much that's been said about it, so much, that if the truth suddenly came out, if George Knapp had the truth in his hand and he came out and had a big press conference and told the world, it would be just one more theory on the pile of theories. | ||
| It'd be lost. | ||
| That's exactly true. | ||
| When we did the documentary, The Best Evidence, the series that led to the documentary, it sort of brought things home for the local audience in a way that I don't think, for example, a national expose could do. | ||
| People see this stuff on television all the time. | ||
| They see the X-Files, they see Unsolved Mysteries, and they tend to, I think, equate some of these kinds of revelations with the movie of the | ||
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week. | |
| Well, that's very interesting, and then go back to wait up for Letterman or something. | ||
| The fact that they saw this on local news with personalities and reporters involved | ||
| who were known to them, who had been in their living rooms, and they knew lived among them, | ||
| sort of made a difference. | ||
| And I think that had a lot to deal with why that program had such an impact here. | ||
| You know, that program, George, should have been national. | ||
| Did you make any attempt or did anybody ever approach you about that? | ||
| I had several inquiries from producers that wanted to go national. | ||
| I talked to CBS for a while. | ||
| They had seen the Lazar material, were astounded that they were, in our conversation, that they didn't know whether to give it to 60 Minutes or the Evening News, and then nothing happened. | ||
| Nothing happened. | ||
| I know that there have been a lot of inquiries from the tabloid-type shows. | ||
| I was going to suggest Fox. | ||
| It seems to me that's something they might like. | ||
| Well, yeah, it's entirely possible. | ||
| I think a lot of the material in that is, I don't want to say passé, it's still interesting, but so much has gone under the bridge since then, and so much has changed, and so much new information has come to light that... Alright, that brings us to the new information, and I know that you're working on something very serious right now. | ||
| What are you doing? | ||
| Well, I work for the company called Altamira, and they've basically given me the green light to produce what I hope will be the most comprehensive series of these UFO documentaries ever done. | ||
| I mean, soup to nuts. | ||
| Beginning with an overview of the whole phenomenon, all the different aspects of it, zeroing in on the cover-up issue in a more comprehensive way than has ever been done anywhere. | ||
| Abductions would be its own separate topic, crop circles, the whole ball of wax all in one big series. | ||
| How long will it be? | ||
| I've outlined ten programs already. | ||
| How long is each one? | ||
| Approximately an hour to an hour and a half. | ||
| Oh, this is significant. | ||
| We are currently editing the third of those programs and I think it's about the best stuff I've ever done on this topic and maybe on anything. | ||
| It's important to put it in a format that people will take seriously. | ||
| We poke fun at some of the aspects of it as well, and I think that's only natural. | ||
| I'm really, really jazzed about this. | ||
| We've been working really hard. | ||
| We've been traveling all over, have interviews with basically all of the knowledgeable people | ||
| in this field, try to separate the good from the bad. | ||
| the wheat from the chaff, we're leaving out some of the crazies, the zanies, the conspiracy buffs, and the zealots, | ||
| and getting down to the heart of the matter. | ||
| What are your intentions for this series? Where would you like to see it? | ||
| We're looking at going directly to home video. We're going to market it on television, as well as through a couple of | ||
| other venues, but mainly through television. | ||
| We're constructing the programs in a way that if there was broadcast interest, and there already has been some, | ||
| It wouldn't be hard to put it into that sort of a format. | ||
| But mainly it's to go directly into the homes, because I think it's the kind of thing that people should have in their homes. | ||
| It's that important. | ||
| It shouldn't be the kind of thing that you switch the channel, and then you don't think about it anymore. | ||
| And then the things are so packed, like your show, Art. | ||
| I mean, it's so packed, you've got to listen to it more than once. | ||
| Sure. | ||
| All right, let's cover a few aspects of this larger phenomenon. | ||
| Then I know that you know a lot about, and I want to ask you about, is remote viewing. | ||
| Almost everybody that I talk to keeps touching on this remote viewing thing. | ||
| And I know that you've investigated this a little bit. | ||
| It's a little off topic, but I want my audience to understand what remote viewing is and what you know about it. | ||
| Well, I guess we would have called it basically psychic research years ago. | ||
| All of a sudden the remote viewing term started coming into popular use a few years ago. | ||
| My own interest in it was really piqued with the trip to Russia. | ||
| Like I said, I'm more of a nuts and bolts guy, show me a document, show me a witness, that sort of thing, show me a trap, and tried to stay away from more of the esoteric topics channeling Automatic writing those things because it didn't always see the direct connection to UFOs until this Russia trip. | ||
| We dealt with a general over there who reports directly to the Russian equivalent of Colin Powell. | ||
| His boss is the number one guy in the Russian Ministry of Defense, and he runs a program that, for want of a better term, it deals with remote viewing. | ||
| He prefers the term enhanced human potential. | ||
| It's kind of a roundabout way until it gets hooked up to UFOs, but he, in essence, teaches regular people, and says everyone has a disability to some extent, teaches regular people to tap into a universal consciousness. | ||
| Call it the Force, if you want, if you're a fan of George Lucas. | ||
| But, tapping into this thing, you get into contact with, he claims, and his disciples claim, on a regular basis, some sort of alien intelligence, You also enhance your own intelligence and human ability. | ||
| I saw training films used by the Russian Ministry of Defense, by the Russian military, by Russia's KGB and police agencies in which these techniques are applied and it'll just knock your socks off. | ||
| For example, they have, uh, they would take some Navy cadets down into the bottom of a ship, they'd leave them there for a couple of days, no windows, bring them up to a map room, and then say, locate all the targets located within 50 miles of here, and they would do it with 70% accuracy. | ||
| Wow. | ||
| We'd take Air Force cadets, put them in a plane, fly them over these fields where targets are camouflaged, and say, find the targets and tell us what's under the camouflage. | ||
| They would put them in a room and have them target practice with handguns, things of that nature, turn off all the lights, and then let them still be hitting the target. | ||
| Okay, I had no idea, George, that there was a connection to an alien intelligence at all. | ||
| I'd never heard that with remote viewing. | ||
| Well, that's what they're saying. | ||
| That's what the Russians say, in that as part of this enhanced human conscious capability, | ||
| you tap into this universal consciousness that other beings are tapped into as well. | ||
| Now some of it gets very, very strange to me, and I have trouble in dealing with some | ||
| of it, but I have to keep reminding myself just who I am dealing with here. | ||
| This is a top, top Russian general who reports directly to the top of their military. | ||
| They take it seriously. | ||
| They are training their troops and officers with these techniques, and it was just quite | ||
| Now, we have a program like that as well that is not this far along. | ||
| I know this because the man who, in essence, oversees this budget is a friend of mine, and is an important contact of mine. | ||
| He's also somebody that's very interested in UFOs. | ||
| The remote viewers that we have, employed by the United States government, working on the Pentagon program, have also encountered alien beings that had communications with A.V.C. | ||
| And other kinds of entities as well. | ||
| They have also had the same kind of enhanced human capabilities, where they can project their consciousness around the world, and speak with the people's mouths, and get food from them, and check their personal resources. | ||
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That's incredible. | |
| You know, I think this ability that some people seem to have isn't very hard for me to believe. | ||
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I've never had a hard time with that. | |
| I've always thought the brain has more capacity than we know about. | ||
| But now this connection that you're talking about is absolutely incredible. | ||
| And I wonder if it might be true that the condition that you put yourself in to be able to remotely view is the same condition that opens you to the possibility of this contact. | ||
| I suppose so. | ||
| I know there is a physical regiment involved in this. | ||
| The Russians at least don't want their subjects to eat meat, but apparently once you get involved in this training, you don't want them to eat meat anyway. | ||
| There's no alcohol, no cigarettes, no drugs of any sort can be consumed. | ||
| But I guess after you're into it for a while, you don't want to do any of that stuff anyway. | ||
| I know that the difference between the American program and the Russian program is the Americans are dealing with people who already had demonstrated psychic abilities, whereas the Russians specifically went out and found average people who had no such experiences, or at least none they'd ever demonstrated before. | ||
| In essence, they want to prove that it's possible for everyone to do it. | ||
| And I'll tell you this, when we got back from Russia, I told my friend in Washington about My Russian contact, he knew that the program existed, but had no access to it. | ||
| We set up a meeting between Washington and their friends in Moscow, and now they have reached an agreement to have joint research on this program. | ||
| So that the Russians can share with us what we know, and we can share with them what you got there. | ||
| Yeah, I do. | ||
| I note that the Russians, since the end of communism, have gone kind of bonkers on this kind of thing. | ||
| And I think on their, just before their evening newscast every night, they have a faith healer that comes on. | ||
| Did you see a lot of that kind of thing? | ||
| Is there much of it going on, as has been reported? | ||
| Well, there is a lot of it, but you've got to realize what they're coming out of. | ||
| You know, some of the ultimate debunkers over here in America have already been setting themselves up so they can dismiss anything that comes out of Russia by saying, well, those Russians are crazy, they're all into psychic stuff and ghosts and you can't believe anything they say because you believe them less than you believe the Americans. | ||
| What do you have to say about the Amazing Randy? | ||
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Is that his name, the Amazing Randy or whatever he is? | |
| He, uh, he's a debunker, isn't he? | ||
| He did a documentary that came out on CBS, or I don't know what he called it, in which he debunked this map, and he actually went to Russia, and, uh, debunked it by a bunch of Russians, uh, who were claiming, uh, remote viewing capability, and, uh, uh, I think it was one Russian who claimed that he could raise the blood pressure, or heartbeat, uh, of an individual, or change that individual's brainwaves, And as I watched that, I thought, you know, it is pretty simple to debunk it. | ||
| It's easier to debunk, it seems to me, than to do almost anything else. | ||
| Well, that's true. | ||
| And it's sad, like I said, that these people would be blanketly dismissing anything that might come out of Russia before they even know what it is, but that's exactly what they're doing. | ||
| It's too bad that they have stolen the word skeptics and skepticism, because it means a lot, something much different from how it's been twisted. | ||
| It's not that you don't believe. | ||
| They refuse to believe, and it doesn't matter what evidence you can show them. | ||
| All right, let me quickly, we don't have a lot of time before the top of the hour. | ||
| I want to jump to abductions, because a lot of the guests that I've had on the program have said, you know, we know the UFOs are there. | ||
| There are so many reports that it's almost not even interesting unless one, you know, wants to land on the White House lawn or something. | ||
| Otherwise, I think they say, it's established. | ||
| They're here. | ||
| What we're now interested in are these abductions, and they are probably the best thing to look at for proof. | ||
| Would you agree with that? | ||
| Oh, I think that's where the phenomenon is heading, you know, in dealing with people like Bud Hopkins and Linda and Dr. John Mack of Harvard. | ||
| That seems to be where it is heading. | ||
| It seems like this other intelligence, whatever it is, wherever it's from, keeps raising the | ||
| stakes. | ||
| It used to be just lights in the sky, and then it was craft, and then craft landed, | ||
| and then humanoid-like features, and all of a sudden we started having interaction reported | ||
| on sporadic basis, like Freddy and Barney Hill. | ||
| Now the stakes have been up. | ||
| This is happening to a lot of people, a lot of people who are not making this step up, | ||
| a lot of people who really are physically missing, who have physical indications that | ||
| something really happened to them, whose lives are messed up by what happens to them, and | ||
| who tell their stories at great personal risk. | ||
| I really do believe that that is where the phenomenon is heading. | ||
| It's not our choice, it's the choice of whoever's on the other side calling the shots. | ||
| You produced the documentary called Best Evidence. | ||
| Now, in 1993, if you had to say what you thought the best evidence was, what would you say? | ||
| What would you say? | ||
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What is the best evidence, right now? | |
| Let me think about it. | ||
| Come back to that question. | ||
| Let me think about it. | ||
| All right, because I know you've looked at an awful lot of evidence. | ||
| I'm going to have to think about it before I borrow it now. | ||
| I wonder, for example, if it's your current baby, these pictures of the discs at the I don't know, because until I get my own independent evaluation of the pictures, I would be reluctant to say that. | ||
| I hope that's what that turns out to be, but I suspect that, as you suggested when we first started talking about these, is that with such incredible technology these days to do this and that with graphics and computer technology, that I'm not sure any picture of any nature would convince people. | ||
| All right. | ||
| Hypnotic regression as a tool. | ||
| I think it's very valuable. | ||
| A couple of points that Bud always makes is, you know, 25 to 30 percent of the cases he deals with, these people remember this information without hypnotic regression. | ||
| Obviously, there have been abuses over the years, but I've sat in on a couple of these sessions. | ||
| John Carpenter came out to Nevada at our behest several months ago and did some work with a Nevada family that's been going through absolute hell with some kind of an alien presence for a long time. | ||
| I watched his technique. | ||
| And although the critics will say that hypnotists, hypnotherapists lead the witnesses to certain conclusions, that is completely the opposite of what Carpenter did. | ||
| He would, for example, use questions about assuming that it's a disc-shaped craft. | ||
| He would ask the people, look around in the corners, tell me what you see in the corners | ||
| as they're under hypnosis. | ||
| Well, the genuine confabulation incident, if somebody was making this stuff up in their | ||
| head, they would make something up that they would see in the corner. | ||
| The UFO abductee who was in a disc-shaped craft gets a puzzled look on their face, looks | ||
| around and can't see any corners. | ||
| That's sort of a thing. | ||
| Every step that he took, at least in the sessions that I sat in, led the witnesses away from | ||
| the standard scenario of an abduction as opposed to leading them toward it. | ||
| And I suppose the mainstream journalist in you looks very carefully for exactly that sort of thing. | ||
| Well, absolutely. | ||
| You don't want to be part of a story that's going to turn out to be bogus and blow up in your face. | ||
| I mean, the key is, for people like you and Linda and others, is personal credibility. | ||
| Once you blow it, it's gone. | ||
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That's a fact. | |
| George, uh, we're up to a newscast here at the top of the hour, so relax for five minutes. | ||
| We'll come back and open the lines, all right? | ||
| Okay. | ||
| All right, stay right there. | ||
| If you want to start stacking up on the lines for George Knapp, this will be your opportunity. | ||
| We'll get the numbers out, uh, as soon as we come back from the news. | ||
| This is Area 2000. | ||
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thousand. | |
| From Jackie Gons Pleasure Downtown, this is KDWN Las Vegas. | ||
| Good evening, welcome back to... | ||
| Welcome back to Area 2000. | ||
| I'm Art Bell. | ||
| My guest is George Knapp. | ||
| Most of you know him. | ||
| Those that don't will soon. | ||
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He is a journalist. | |
| He's a reporter on this program on a weekly basis. | ||
| And he's respected throughout the entire UFO community. | ||
| If you would like to speak with George Knapp, this is going to be your opportunity. | ||
| Let me give you the relevant telephone numbers. | ||
| In the metropolitan area of Las Vegas, the magic number is 383-8255. | ||
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383-8255. | |
| Outside the state, toll free. | ||
| It's 1-800-338-8255. | ||
| 8255 383 82 55 outside the state toll free it's 1 800 338 8255 1 800 338 82 55 | ||
| then we have the wildcard lines at area code And then finally, first-time callers at area code 702-385-7213, 7213. | ||
| And now, back to George Knapp. | ||
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George? | |
| Good. | ||
| One last area, and then we'll take phone calls. | ||
| callers at area code seven oh two three eight five | ||
| seven two one three seventy two thirteen and now back to george nap | ||
| uh... one last area and then we'll take phone calls and uh... | ||
| the last area i want to cover with you | ||
| uh... is crop circles how much | ||
| I asked Linda, of course, about this with respect to crop circles and Uh, the animal mutilations. | ||
| We might as well try and cover both. | ||
| There seems to be more of a connection to the UFOs than not. | ||
| Is that an opinion you share, or what is your thinking in this area? | ||
| Yes, it is an opinion I share. | ||
| I mean, there's far too many witnesses who have seen anomalous aerial phenomena in association with the formation of these things. | ||
| In addition, the kinds of changes that are occurring in the plants and in the soil are things that I'm not quite sure we have the technology to do. | ||
| I also know from speaking with other researchers who are far more involved with this topic than I am, at least as far as crop circles go, that there is intense government intelligence agency interest in this subject. | ||
| Several of these researchers have been approached, have been offered bribes, have been threatened, in essence, by people who want to be able to control the flow of information about the crop circles. | ||
| It seems like whatever intelligence is behind this phenomenon is Alright, it's been a long time since I think you've been directly in contact with the public. | ||
| rushed away by by government intelligence agencies are trying to send a | ||
| message i don't think we understand exactly what it is yet perhaps | ||
| some sort of subconscious bubble that they can't be swept away like a document can or a | ||
| witness can i think it'd be like trying to sweep away the crap nebula | ||
| all right uh... it's been a long time since i think you've been directly in | ||
| contact with the public are you ready all right let's do it | ||
| Lots of calls. | ||
| Wild Card Line 3, good evening. | ||
| You're on the air with George Knapp. | ||
| Yes. | ||
| Hello? | ||
| Hello. | ||
| Yes, sir. | ||
| You're on the air. | ||
| Go ahead. | ||
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Uh, George, when I was a kid driving back from Florida, in Georgia... There's something wrong with your phone line, sir. | |
| It's got a big hum on it. | ||
| That's better. | ||
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Better now? | |
| Yeah, that's better. | ||
| Go ahead again, please. | ||
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Driving back from Florida... | |
| In Georgia, we stopped in a gas station and went to sleep. | ||
| We woke up, there was a light, like daylight all around, so we jumped up and we got, you know, we just got out of there. | ||
| Now going back to New York, we almost got killed twice. | ||
| Once we're going up on the Jersey Terry Pike, for no apparent reason, we were on the side going up when cars were coming down. | ||
| And we switched, I don't know how we switched over, how we even got there. | ||
| And then coming in from Arizona one time with me, my wife, and my children with two cars. | ||
| They just went dead at the same point and in the background on the mountains we see some, you know, strange shaped objects and no other cars came by. | ||
| You know, it's a funny situation. | ||
| I just can't understand. | ||
| Well, it sounds very familiar with a lot of the cases that people like Bud Hopkins have been digging up. | ||
| What you are describing sounds very close to a missing time experience where one minute you're somewhere and the next minute you're somewhere else. | ||
| A lot of times these happen in cars where people suddenly find themselves at their destination either really late or really early and don't remember how they got there. | ||
| Also what you're describing is, you know, more than one experience, which as we're learning more about this | ||
| phenomenon seems to be how it goes. | ||
| It's not chance encounters that people have. People are followed. Families are followed, often for generations, by | ||
| whatever intelligence we're dealing with. | ||
| I sympathize with the weirdness of your experience. | ||
| The only consolation I can give you is that there are a lot of other people who have gone through the same thing. | ||
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Oh, I mean, it really don't bother me what happened. | |
| You know, I'm starting to think about this new world order and all. | ||
| Uh-huh. | ||
| You know, I think that, you know, I'm starting to think that maybe they're, you know, they're trying to change our minds in order for these people to take over the universe and build a whole lot of time, because they've got plenty of time. | ||
| It don't mean nothing. | ||
| It may not happen. | ||
| All right, sir. | ||
| Where are you calling from? | ||
|
unidentified
|
Las Vegas. | |
| Las Vegas. | ||
| All right, thank you. | ||
| George, you know, there are a number of UFO researchers, and I won't name them, who seem to have almost branched out from the UFO phenomenon, perhaps through the cover-up aspect of it, into the New World Order business. | ||
| Why are they making that connection? | ||
| Well, I'll put it this way. | ||
| I try to keep an open mind on just about everything. | ||
| I don't want to shut something out just because it sounds weird. | ||
| Why they make the connection in a lot of cases is because they're profiteers, or because they're right-wing fanatical types who are trying to draw attention to themselves, or they have a religious agenda that they want to pursue, or they just want attention. | ||
| I have seen no compelling evidence of any kind of a New World Order threat. | ||
| I'm open to it if someone's got it. | ||
| You know, there's the Trilateralists, and the Council of Foreign Relations, and the Bilderbergers, and the Illuminati, and the Jason Society, and you've got any number of conspiracy theories. | ||
| Some, at least a few of these researchers have tried to pile them into, you know, the mother of all conspiracy theories, and they're all involved with the aliens. | ||
| Uh, I, I, I just don't see a compelling case for that. | ||
| Now, there may be some other political agenda that's going on. | ||
| I certainly believe that there is corrupt, uh, collaboration between certain governments on a UFO cover-up. | ||
| Uh, but I don't see any plot to, to have the, the New World Order, the One World Government to put us all in concentration camps, or, and I certainly just don't see any evidence that we've got secret treaties with aliens. | ||
| There may have been communication at some point. | ||
| I, I find that entirely possible, but, uh, aliens if that's what you want to call them, don't need our | ||
| permission, for example, to go ahead and abduct people because we couldn't stop them if they wanted | ||
|
unidentified
|
to. | |
| All right. | ||
| And some people are too much. | ||
| All right. Good evening. You're on the air with George Knapp from Jackie Gonsazo Hotel. | ||
| Where are you calling from, please? | ||
|
unidentified
|
San Diego. | |
| San Diego. Okay, go ahead. | ||
|
unidentified
|
How can you get a non-believer to become a believer? | |
| Well, that's a tough one, I think. | ||
| I think it has to be a relatively slow process. | ||
| You don't try to convert them like you would convert someone religiously. | ||
| You just show them some of the best information. | ||
| I would start with a couple of books. | ||
| By the way, where does your career go from here? | ||
| Timothy Good's book, Above Top Secret, is a good place to start, | ||
| and let them delve into it themselves. | ||
| I mean, people have to reach this conclusion on their own. | ||
| I think most people would reach the same conclusion that I've reached if they take the time to do it, | ||
| but it's not something that happens overnight. | ||
| By the way, where does your career go from here? | ||
| When you're finished producing this long series that you're now doing, | ||
| what do you see ahead for George Knapp? | ||
| That's a good question, Art, and it's a scary question, and I'm not quite sure. | ||
| I mean, I'd like to see this out until a final resolution to this question is reached. | ||
| Whether or not that's going to happen in my lifetime, I don't know. | ||
| It could happen next week, and then I'd be looking for something else to do. | ||
| But I have a lot of different kinds of interests. | ||
| This just happens to be the dominant interest at the moment. | ||
| Understood. | ||
| I frequently ask my guests this, and I will ask it of you, because it's such a good question. | ||
| If you had conclusive and controvertible evidence that they are here, and you could prove it, I mean, you just could go on television and lay it out and prove it, would you do it? | ||
| I don't think there's any question I would do it. | ||
| I mean, I have had those soul... those same kind of soul-searching sessions. | ||
| I've had those conversations with other researchers. | ||
| I've actually gone back and forth on it occasionally because you realize that the world is going to be very different. | ||
| There are going to be profound effects. | ||
| I'm not sure people would panic in the street, but there would be some who would panic. | ||
| There would be profound economic effects. | ||
| It would have a dramatic impact on the world as we know it, but It goes back to Ned Day, Art. | ||
| You know, what Ned Day had taught me, he said, the journalist credo, the ethical imperative is, get the story, get it right, and tell it no matter who it helps or who it hurts. | ||
| When journalists start employing self-censorship, then they're not doing what they're paid to do. | ||
| But are there not, George, occasionally times, I mean, if you had this evidence, and the government came to you and said, look, We know you're about to blow this, but listen, here are the reasons why you shouldn't, and laid out some, no doubt, national security matters, or laid out several studies to you that would show that psychologically the American public would not be ready for it, and it would cause great social disruption. | ||
| Would it stop you? | ||
| I guess it would. | ||
| Oh, I don't know. | ||
| I mean, I don't want to say absolutely, because there are a few absolutes in life. | ||
| I guess that they would have to take an awfully persuasive case. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Yeah. | |
| I don't have a heck of a lot of credibility with me or with a lot of other people to begin with. | ||
| It would have to be an awfully persuasive case, and I would not say absolutely that I would not go along with it. | ||
| I don't know. | ||
| All right. | ||
| Line 1, good evening. | ||
| You're on the air with George Knapp. | ||
| Yes, this is very interesting tonight. | ||
| Just a couple of things. | ||
| With the abductions that are going on, it reminds me of what we do with research, with animal research. | ||
| In what sense? | ||
|
unidentified
|
In what sense? | |
| The same way as I was watching a thing on television the other day where they were working with gorillas and stuff like this and with blinds and going in and taking samples. | ||
| Doing stuff like this and it might be the same way that they're just doing a zoological research on us as another entity, but the other part was you were talking about remote viewing What do you know about this guy by the name of Al Belick that was talking about a lot of the same things that you're talking about? | ||
| Oh, yes. | ||
| All right, sir. | ||
| Thank you. | ||
| Al Belick and the Philadelphia Experiment. | ||
| Now, I know of Al Belick. | ||
| I've come close to meeting him a couple of times. | ||
| I don't know, you know, a great deal about the Philadelphia Experiment or the Montauk Project. | ||
| Just tangential information. | ||
| I think it's an interesting topic, and it certainly has a UFO connection, but if you're asking me, is Al Belick a credible guy, I have no indication of otherwise. | ||
| Whether or not the Montauk Project is real, or the Philadelphia Experiment really happened, I really would be reluctant to say. | ||
| As far as the abduction question, the comparison to animal research, that's a fair comparison, because what a lot of the abductees are reporting is, you know, they're taking in physical samples, scoops of flesh, sperm, and ovum samples, and that's the sort of thing that we do with less intelligent species. | ||
| But after speaking to folks like David Jacobson, Bud Hopkins, and John Mack, it seems to be something else that they're looking for. | ||
| Some sort of an interaction with our species. | ||
| Something that we have that they can't duplicate in the laboratory, and a lot of people, John Carpenter included, have suggested it has something to do with the human soul. | ||
| That, you know, the abductees, a lot of them that are reporting having hybrid... George, that's something that John Lear has been talking about for some time. | ||
| Yes, yes. | ||
| I think John has picked up tidbits here and there from Bob Lazar and others, and maybe has gone his own way with it. | ||
| But the discussion of the interest in the soul is not only new with John. | ||
| Whitley Streber has suggested that he felt the visitors were interested in the soul. | ||
| Dr. John Mack has said something similar, that we have something that they need, and they want some sort of an ongoing relationship, perhaps even they're hoping that If we're going to kill ourselves, blow ourselves up, or poison our planet, that something human, or humanoid, human-like, will survive. | ||
| George, we touched on albelic, and that's kind of an almost a time travel story, and I've always, it's been a personal fascination for me, the possibility of time travel. | ||
| A, is anybody working on time travel that you know of? | ||
| I am right now reading a fascinating book by a guy named Mark Davenport. | ||
| It's called Visitors from Time, The Secrets of the UFOs, in which this guy analyzes UFO sightings, UFO phenomenon over the years, and it's a very persuasive case that the technology being exhibited by these crafts Is a time travel technology, as opposed to just what we would call a propulsion system. | ||
| That's also fairly consistent with what Bob Lazar has said, that part of the research that was going on out there was dealing with time travel. | ||
| Alright, I interviewed John Lear not long ago, and Bob Lazar also came on the program, on my syndicated program, and a lot of people seem to think, or there is a rumor going about, that Bob Lazar might be working on some sort of time travel apparatus. | ||
| And I asked Bob, and he said, no, I'm not. | ||
| And I said, well, Bob, if you were, would you tell me? | ||
| And he paused for a long moment and said, no. | ||
| Well, that's typical classic Bob. | ||
| I talk to Bob on a fairly regular basis, and I think I probably would have caught some wind of if he was working on a time machine of some sort. | ||
| I think he may have learned enough to where he might be able to work on something like that in the future, learned enough, in other words, from his experiences that s4 but he's less than to my knowledge he's | ||
| not doing that now this book anyway by mark davenport it's uh... really a | ||
| persuasive case that's what uh... | ||
| the technology being exhibited is time travel and uh... | ||
| uh... he might be an interesting guest that's a good idea which may be angela | ||
| comforter and i can try to set that up all right mention it to angela please | ||
| good evening on the uh... of wild card line two i guess it is | ||
| You're on the air with George Knapp. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Yes, good evening, Art, and good evening, Mr. Knapp. | |
| Good evening. | ||
| I am very reluctant to undergo hypnosis, but I had an occurrence which has terminated recurring dreams, and I would willingly undergo it to see if my interpretation was right. | ||
| Was there ever... Time will not permit my relating the entire thing. | ||
| Was there ever a colony here on Earth, in the accounts that you have listened to upon occasion, which was abandoned? | ||
| And there are descendants on the Earth, here and now, of that original colony from aliens and extraterrestrials. | ||
| And they are now returning and warning certain people of a coming catastrophe. | ||
| Have you heard that at any time? | ||
| I've heard it again and again and again. | ||
|
unidentified
|
I'm relieved to hear that. | |
| Bun Hopkins refers to these kinds of apocalyptic visions as alien editorials. | ||
| He's not entirely convinced that what the aliens are describing or in many cases graphically illustrating to the abductees is actually going to happen as opposed to they're trying to give us a message that you better clean up your act. | ||
| As for the ancient civilization, of course I've heard it. | ||
| I wish I could answer your question about whether it's true or not, because it would answer a lot of the things... Well, I understand from experience the atmosphere is now hostile to them. | ||
|
unidentified
|
And they'll be suited when they come back, but nothing like a cosmonaut or an astronaut or an underwater or anything like that. | |
| Well, you know what we've been hearing, and I think what I discussed last week, Art, is that again and again there seems to be some kind of a growing sense of urgency as I travel around the country and speaking not only to researchers but just members of the general public. | ||
| Abductees are getting messages Regular people have got a real uneasy sense that something is happening. | ||
| Clearly, there are changes occurring in our planet. | ||
| The crop circles, people like Colin Andrews, who are doing research on that, feel that... That something or another... Thank you. | ||
|
unidentified
|
When I wanted further information, I assumed it was mail just communicating with me. | |
| Only the visor across the eyes, only a very narrow, from temple to temple, seemed to be an energy emanating from them. | ||
| But there was no time. | ||
| He had to communicate with others and that was it. | ||
| I'll hang up and listen to you. | ||
| Thank you. | ||
| All right. | ||
| Thank you. | ||
| That's something, George, is imminent. | ||
| Do you have that feeling, too? | ||
| Do you have any sense of something around the point? | ||
| It's hard to separate it because, again, I try to be the blank slate and listen to what people say and try to separate truth from fiction, but I keep hearing it over and over again from people whose opinions I really respect. | ||
| So whether or not I feel it myself or whether I've just heard it so many times, I don't know. | ||
| I'm reluctant to give too much credence to these predictions, because as you and I have spoken many times, we hear them over and over again, and it just doesn't seem like any of them come true. | ||
| But what about the proposition, George, that they're getting us ready for this information, that all these programs on television, and they are abundant these days about this sort of thing, are preparing us mentally? | ||
| Oh, I find that completely credible. | ||
| I don't know. | ||
| The human mind is trained to look for patterns in these sorts of things. | ||
| Certainly over the last 40 years, our attitudes about aliens have changed a lot. | ||
| Our attitudes about space travel have changed a lot. | ||
| What we think is possible in terms of getting elsewhere. | ||
| And certainly, you know, the movies that used to show aliens here to eat us have changed. | ||
| Now their ETs are space brethren. | ||
| We've got mainstream shows on television now that clearly take the subject seriously. | ||
| Anyone who's got a television has been exposed to this stuff again and again. | ||
| I think if it is a program of conditioning, it has worked. | ||
| And if it is not, it has the same effect. | ||
| All right, let's keep going. | ||
| From Jackie Gons Plaza Hotel, you're on the air with George Knapp. | ||
| Good evening. | ||
| Where are you calling from, please? | ||
|
unidentified
|
Burrard, California. | |
| All right, go right ahead. | ||
|
unidentified
|
I'm in search of... I was watching the crop circle section, and they said that they caught one being made. | |
| I think somebody should look into that. | ||
| They said that they were researching the tape. | ||
| Well, I know that there have been a couple of times when they have seen these odd aerial things flying over the circles, whether or not they've seen one actually made. | ||
| I haven't seen that tape. | ||
| I know I've seen a video of it. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Yeah, look into the crop circle segment that they have in the search of it. | |
| Toward the end there, they say that they caught one being made and that they're analyzing the film footage. | ||
| Did they suggest what had made it? | ||
|
unidentified
|
No, they didn't suggest because they didn't want to say anything until they knew for sure. | |
| Also, Art, you were asking earlier about what UFOs and the New World Government had in common? | ||
| Yes. | ||
| Well, this is just a theory. | ||
| I don't know for sure, but supposedly, a lot of people believe that Christ came from, since the Virgin Mary, they think she was implanted by an alien, and since the New World Government is supposed to be just before The recoming of Christ. | ||
| So I think there's something there. | ||
| All right. | ||
| All right. | ||
| I appreciate the call, sir. | ||
| Thank you. | ||
| So there is a connection, I suppose. | ||
| And also, George, that kind of talk, that kind of discussion brings on a lot of anger. | ||
| Boy, I'll tell you what. | ||
| If you have some religious folk out there and they hear that, they just boil right over and generally you get it on the air. | ||
| And believe me, I've had it. | ||
| I've dealt with a lot of religious folks over the years, religious leaders. | ||
| In fact, earlier this year I went to Nashville, Tennessee to help produce a series on UFOs, and I realized, this is the Bible Belt here. | ||
| I'd better find out where I might stand in terms of a nasty public reaction. | ||
| So one of the first people I sought out was one of the primary leaders in the Baptist community in Nashville. | ||
| Layed it out to him. | ||
| What if this is real? | ||
| What if these aliens have been messing with us for a long time? | ||
| And his attitude was refreshing in its simplicity. | ||
| He said, well, if they're out there, you know, God created them too and we have a message to give to them. | ||
| In other words, he was ready to start converting them and having them sit in the pews next Sunday. | ||
| Well, presumably though, if they are the ones who created us and God created them, that wouldn't be necessary. | ||
| Well, I guess that's true. | ||
| I also spoke to some folks in the Mormon community here in Nevada. | ||
| Mormons are very conservative, as you know. | ||
| The alien reality, they have no problem with it. | ||
| In fact, much of their teaching suggests that we came from other planets. | ||
| We were, in essence, seeded here. | ||
| So, I think the idea that people would panic, that religions would crumble, is probably exaggerated just on the basis of those kinds of conversations. | ||
| I know, but I'll tell you right now, George, if the saucer came down and they walked out, And they weren't in front of the White House or some other relatively safe area. | ||
| Somebody would fill them full of lead. | ||
| Well, there's no doubt about that because it's happened enough times already where people have shot at them, thrown rocks. | ||
| Exactly. | ||
| Line 2, good evening. | ||
| You're on the air with George Knapp. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Good evening, Todd and George. | |
| Before I ask my question, I just want to say here that Al Sillig, in my opinion, is a total fraud and he has created his own fantasy. | ||
| Now, to the question. | ||
| George, have you ever considered or have you been approached I have never been approached to make a documentary on it. | ||
| I did include a segment on the Billy Meyer case in the original UFO is the Best Evidence. | ||
| I'm intrigued by the case. | ||
| I look at some of the photos that occurred at the latter stages of Meyer's experiences, and they look completely phony. | ||
| I look at some of the photos that were taken in the beginning, some photos that are supported by multiple independent witnesses who said that they saw these things too, and I'm very intrigued. | ||
| I suspect it's like a lot of other UFO cases. | ||
| Billy Meyer might have been on to something, was getting some genuine information, had some genuine contact, started drawing attention, and drew the attention of intelligence agencies or others who wanted to discredit him. | ||
| We heard over and over again this story about a model that was found in a barn. | ||
| I don't know that anyone has actually ever seen that model, but you hear that story over and over again. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Well, those are the perspectives from the group, and how can a one-armed man create all those four or five different variations of UFOs All right, sir. | |
| and those days eight millimeter footage and the man is honest of course | ||
| i've been not going to fly in the ufo we could just take a look on comes because | ||
| the millions of americans not going to go away and eventually | ||
| a worldwide distribution of his information will come forward | ||
| all right sir thank you uh... so that is uh... the case you find intriguing george | ||
| I do. | ||
| I find it intriguing. | ||
| Like I said, I think somebody got to him or infiltrated his camp. | ||
| He had all kinds of people that were living with him and staying with him and acting like his disciples. | ||
| After a while, the attention may have gone to his head for a while. | ||
| It's like anything else in this field, Art. | ||
| Everything is controversial. | ||
| There's almost nothing that even ufologists can agree on. | ||
| You know, the Gulf Breeze case. | ||
| Tremendous photographs. | ||
| A lot of corroborative evidence. | ||
| No question about it. | ||
| George, hold on just one sec while I ID. | ||
| You're listening to Area 2000 from Las Vegas. | ||
| I'm Art Bell. | ||
|
unidentified
|
My guest, George Knapp. | |
| From Jackie Gaughan's Plaza downtown, this is KBWN Las Vegas. | ||
| Good evening. | ||
| We're going right back to it. | ||
| There's one local line that just popped open. | ||
| That's it. | ||
| That's all that's available. | ||
| That number, of course, 383-8255-8255. | ||
| George? | ||
| 383-8255-8255. George? Good. All right, back to a lot of people here, George. | ||
| Wildcard Line 2, you're on the air with George Knapp. | ||
| Good evening. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Hello, this is Minerva. | |
| Minerva, where are you? | ||
|
unidentified
|
Eureka, California. | |
| Eureka, all right. | ||
|
unidentified
|
I'd like to give you some information about a different kind of time-traveling. | |
| This is mental time-traveling. | ||
| There's a new book published last year about Nostradamus predictions, which is quite good. | ||
| Written by Maurice Leclerc. | ||
| It's called C.A.S.S.E. | ||
| It's called of astrology. So I looked that up and it is very | ||
| interesting. | ||
| It is not all that different really because there have been a number of things done on | ||
| time travel that can actually be achieved with the mind. | ||
| And it again is a fascinating area for me. | ||
| Do you have any comment on that? | ||
| Oh, it's just a little out of my area, like I said. | ||
| I try to keep an open mind about all of it, but it's just not something I've delved into to any extent. | ||
| All right. | ||
| Line 3, good evening. | ||
| You're on the air with George Knapp. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Well? | |
| Hello. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Yeah. | |
| Art? | ||
| Yes. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Hey, Art, I had a few things. | |
| First of all, I went and saw Al Belick, and I spoke with him personally, and I felt like that was your last caller there. | ||
| You think he's fantasized it? | ||
|
unidentified
|
Well, yeah, he's got a good story, but he won't look you in the eye. | |
| Well, no, I don't know if that's fair. | ||
| I listened to the man for several hours. | ||
| I don't know whether you heard the show I did with him or not. | ||
| But he was pretty convincing, pretty credible. | ||
| I don't know what he's like in person. | ||
|
unidentified
|
That's why I had the problem. | |
| In other words, he was credible. | ||
| Yeah, but there are people, you know, who... I'm not the last face of anything. | ||
|
unidentified
|
The other thing I want to talk to you about is that I saw something two years ago down at the Salton Sea and it was right where they have their bombing area down there and we were out camping out there for about four or five days and at nighttime we saw these two objects go through the sky so slowly and there was no there was no sound of an engine or anything and we could see like a lights on them it appeared like there were some kind of windows or something and You know, I saw it first, and I pointed it out to these other friends that were camping, and we watched this thing for about 15 minutes, and there was just two of them, and they just went slowly across the sky, and they were close enough where there was no wind, so we should have been able to hear their engines or something. | |
| And I thought that maybe that was something like what you saw. | ||
| That's why I chuckled. | ||
| It sounded a little like what I saw. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Yeah, and that's the only experience I've ever had with anything like that. | |
| But you've got a great show tonight. | ||
| All right. | ||
| Appreciate it. | ||
| Thank you. | ||
| There's just another report. | ||
| There are so many of them, George. | ||
| I wonder really, too, how many there are. | ||
| We hear, you know, people call this program like this, where nobody's going to laugh at them. | ||
| But I would think that the great majority of UFO reports, or even abductions or experiences of that sort, would be not reported. | ||
| I think the figure is 9 out of 10. | ||
| It's an interesting dichotomy. | ||
| That even ufologists will admit that 9 out of 10 UFO sightings are probably misidentifications of explainable phenomenon. | ||
| But it's also true that 9 out of 10 UFOs are never reported at all. | ||
| And the simple fact is that there's no one to report them to. | ||
| Of course, UFO organizations will take those reports, but the vast majority of people, even here in America, are not part of those organizations and wouldn't know how to contact one if they wanted to. | ||
| Police agencies don't take the reports. | ||
| The Air Force claims that it stopped in 1969 taking reports. | ||
| So you can call your airport and they'll keep you on the line to find out if you're a nut, but they don't take down the information. | ||
| So it's just, in essence, most of that information is lost forever. | ||
| All right. | ||
| Onward. | ||
| Good evening. | ||
| You're on the air with George Knapp. | ||
| Where are you calling from, please? | ||
|
unidentified
|
I'm calling from St. | |
| Louis. | ||
| St. | ||
| Louis, Missouri. | ||
| I am? | ||
| Yes, sir. | ||
| Just wondering how the I'll tell you what, I know what you're doing. | ||
| You're listening to my syndicated program in St. | ||
| Louis, aren't you? | ||
|
unidentified
|
Sam. | |
| Alright, we are doing a different program on the air right now. | ||
| What would that be? | ||
| We're doing a program on UFOs. | ||
| And we'll be back on the syndicated show live on Tuesday morning early. | ||
| Alright. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Right. | |
| I have nothing to contribute on that topic. | ||
| Well, in that case, good hearing from St. | ||
| Louis anyway. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Thank you. | |
| Thank you, sir. | ||
| Bye-bye. | ||
| Line One, good evening. | ||
| You're on the air with George Knapp. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Yes, I was wondering if you could give me some information on number one, Project Blue Book, exactly what it is, how it pertains to the government, and number two... What it was. | |
| What it was? | ||
| No, I'm sorry. | ||
| I didn't know they closed it. | ||
| Oh, yes. | ||
| And number two, it's a case called something like the Mothman Prophecies. | ||
| I think Keele reported on it. | ||
| George, do you know about that? | ||
| I do, a little bit. | ||
| The first question, Blue Book, was the name of the third official, at least publicly known, study launched by the U.S. | ||
| military into the UFO mystery, although study is probably not a good term to use for Blue | ||
| Book. | ||
| In essence, and everyone associated with it, including its first director, said that it | ||
| was little more than a public relations exercise aimed at dismissing or explaining away UFO | ||
| sightings. | ||
| The first two projects which preceded Blue Book, Project Sign and Project Grudge, were | ||
| a little bit different. | ||
| Project Sign was conducted in total secrecy. | ||
| It concluded that UFOs were real and probably extraterrestrial. | ||
| That recommendation was rejected by the head of the Air Force. | ||
| Project Grudge then concluded UFOs weren't worth studying. | ||
| That was followed by Project Blue Book. | ||
| In 1969, Project Blue Book ended when the military, in essence, announced that because | ||
| of studies it had done, there appeared to be no threat from UFOs and that further study | ||
| would be a waste of time. | ||
| We also know for a fact, because of the Air Force's own internal documents, that there is an ongoing study that was even underway at the time of Project Blue Book. | ||
| Any cases involving national security, like UFOs over ICBM bases, went somewhere else. | ||
| That somewhere else is still unknown to us. | ||
| But it's probably still going on in that way. | ||
| As for the Mothman prophecies, I haven't read it. | ||
| There's a guy named John Keel who wrote it. | ||
| It's about some incredible experiences. | ||
| I'm trying to remember the town, but it's a town back east, Virginia, West Virginia, somewhere like that, that was basically inundated with UFO sightings, with strange aerial phenomenon, with people reporting seeing humanoid-type figures with wings flying around. | ||
| As I said, I have not read it. | ||
| It certainly is well-known in UFO circles, but that's about all I know about it. | ||
| How's that, caller? | ||
|
unidentified
|
All right, thank you. | |
| And let's hope Douglas Adams wasn't right about all that. | ||
| All right, thank you. | ||
| And good evening. | ||
| Out of state, you're on the air from Jackie Gons' Plaza Hotel with George Knapp. | ||
| Where are you calling from, please? | ||
|
unidentified
|
We're calling from Riverside, California. | |
| Good evening, Mr. Bell and Mr. Knapp. | ||
| Good evening. | ||
|
unidentified
|
I want to just say thank you for having a show like this. | |
| More information should be brought out to the general public. | ||
| And I have a question for Mr. Knapp. | ||
| In all my readings and study that I've done on this subject, I probably started on the Betty and Barney Hill situation, or not abduction, but back in the 50s, and worked my way recently through about 25, 30 books in the last two years. | ||
| However, the question is getting back to the human spirit. | ||
| the soul. | ||
| What I've gathered is that they've asked a lot of | ||
| objectives that one of the things they admire about the human race | ||
| is their individuality. | ||
| Could you comment on that, Mr. Ness? | ||
| Alright, yes, it's a good question. | ||
| George, do these aliens have some sort of collective mentality? | ||
| It seems like it, and what's been described by the various | ||
| witnesses, it's almost like a hive mentality. I'm not sure | ||
| I'm not sure that the aliens, what we perceive to be aliens, what's most commonly reported in America, at least, | ||
| that the aliens, what we perceive to be aliens, what's most commonly | ||
| as the aliens are the real aliens. | ||
| It's just the bug-eyed, big-headed greys that are reported most often. | ||
| Almost, in a lot of ways, seem to be androids or some kind of machines | ||
| that are directed by other intelligences, often humanoid-type intelligences | ||
| that look just like us. | ||
| Perhaps a race of android-type creatures left in the area to keep track of us. | ||
| Sure. | ||
| Or to use a dirty work to go down and collect the samples and have these interactions. | ||
| to have interactions with the practical as they develop the bubbles. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Being able to develop the visuality of the action, for example, you could have a 12-year-old girl or a 10-year-old | |
| boy that plays on the ball and they're playing together | ||
| and they get different views about their game. | ||
|
unidentified
|
The other thing I'd say is that you address that to a first mother or a first family | |
| for interaction, for play. | ||
| A lot of the FSUs remember being asked to play with these other strange-looking hybrid beings | ||
| because that's not something that these others seem to understand. | ||
| The individuality point is exhibited in a lot of the stories told by Thank you for your contribution. | ||
| we have something they don't. | ||
| Alright. | ||
| Wildcard line 2, good evening, you're on the air with George now. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Hi, I'm calling from Reno. | |
| Reno, yes ma'am. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Um, George? | |
| Yes? | ||
| I've been wanting to say for quite a while how much I appreciate your reports each week | ||
| and would really miss them if they weren't there. | ||
| Linda's too, but they're usually a guest on and we don't get a chance to thank you for your contributions. | ||
| Well, thank you. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Um, you reported, um, that on the day Israel and the PLO signed their papers, a star of | |
| David appeared in a field. | ||
| Has any testing of the grain been done on that particular formation? | ||
| Not to my knowledge, and that's my fault for not following it up. | ||
| I'll make a note of that now and try to have some information on it for next week. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Oh, that'd be great. | |
| That'd have been so easily man-made that it'd be interesting if it wasn't. | ||
| And does anyone that you know of We've published a comprehensive list of UFO-related conferences and events. | ||
| I know we have one coming up in San Francisco and then one in April in Los Angeles. | ||
| Several publications. | ||
| The MUFON UFO Journal keeps up with not only the conferences, always has a monthly list of them, but as well as pretty serious, incredible research that's going on in the field. | ||
| UFO Magazine, published at LA, always keeps up with that stuff. | ||
| They're very credible as well. | ||
| There's a service called the UFO News Clipping Service that not only lists a lot of conferences, but also gives you news from around the world relating to UFOs and other related topics, clips from newspapers all over the world, reported in the mainstream press. | ||
| I'd recommend any of those. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Where are they located? | |
| I don't have the addresses here, but perhaps, Art, you tell me, how do we arrange to get this lady this address? | ||
| Well, uh, we might bring it to the program next week. | ||
| Great. | ||
| Alright. | ||
| Alright, ma'am? | ||
|
unidentified
|
Yes. | |
| Alright, thank you very much. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Thank you. | |
| And, uh, just make a couple of notes, uh, George, and we'll try to get that information out next week. | ||
| Alright, uh, good evening. | ||
| You're on the air, uh, with George Knapp in Las Vegas. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Hello there. | |
| Hi, where are you from, sir? | ||
|
unidentified
|
Uh, well, um, I'm from the source, but I'm from Mount Shasta here, right this moment. | |
| Alright. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Uh, I'd like to talk to George if, uh, he's aware of the disappearing, I'm sure he's aware of the disappearing Mars Observer craft. | |
| Sure. | ||
| Oh, yes. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Are you aware of the sudden misoperation of NASA's All right, but your first question, sir, is a good one. | |
| And, George, what do you hear? | ||
| Everything is buzzing with rumors and thoughts and attempts to turn the Mars Explorer back on and all the rest of it. | ||
| What do you hear about that? | ||
| Is it your judgment that it's a simple malfunction? | ||
| That's true, or is it some sort of cover-up? | ||
| It's a mixed bag, Art. | ||
| I tried to call Richard Hoagland today because he seems to be tuned into this as much or if not more than anyone and was unable to get a hold of him to get the latest on that. | ||
| He has some very high level sources within NASA and I think I mentioned last week He is convinced that this thing is going to turn itself back on in January or February, that it's still out there, that it's sending back pictures. | ||
| The other side of the coin, you've got people like Ed Dames, the guy who had predicted this big event in New Mexico that we've talked about several times, who has just received an issue of the New Mexico Mufon News, had an extensive interview with Dames, who said that whatever happened up there at the Mars Observer was directly related to the event that he had predicted was going to happen, that has now been delayed. | ||
| That the Martians or whoever is living up there were directly involved. | ||
| I really don't know. | ||
| I suspect from dealing personally with NASA. | ||
| That it is not out of the question that sabotage could have been on purpose, that not by NASA itself, but perhaps people within NASA who did not want the Cydonia region photographed, or if it was going to be photographed, didn't want the photographs made public. | ||
| I know it for a fact, in dealing with them, that they want nothing to do with anything that sounds like they are looking for Martians or ETs. | ||
| That's one of the reasons they changed the name of SETI to Hermes. | ||
| I know that they are uncooperative with researchers who are looking into the UFO angle. | ||
| I know that although a lot of them are very much interested in the face on Mars and the Cydonia region, they just don't want to admit it because they don't want to seem like wackos. | ||
| Haven't they had their funding cut? | ||
| For SETI? | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| Yeah, SETI is gone. | ||
| In fact, the news that I hear is that the House and Senate Conference Committee that killed it has given it $1 million in essence to phase itself out, which is an absolute tragedy. | ||
| Well, that and the supercollider which gets about six hundred and... | ||
| six hundred and seventy or eighty million dollars to do the same thing, | ||
| fill the hole back up and forget it. | ||
| Exactly. | ||
| It's politicians trying to throw the public a bone to show that they're cutting government waste when in essence they're spending so much money on other ridiculous projects that throwing a little bit of money to answer the fundamental questions of Where we are in the universe, whether or not we're alone, I mean, which even somebody like Carl Sagan would admit is the most fundamental question of our time, and which would be the biggest scientific discovery in human history, if contact were ever made. | ||
| It's a small price to pay for such big possible returns, and I'm really bothered by it. | ||
| Well, if all this comes to be true, and you're still part of it when it comes down, George, maybe that'll be worth some gigantic reward. | ||
|
unidentified
|
And money. | |
| I don't know about that. | ||
| I just know it's a chance for me, and holy hell, it's a chance for me. | ||
| Get online, too. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Good evening. | |
| You're on the air with George. | ||
| Hi, how are you doing? | ||
|
unidentified
|
Fine. | |
| Another great show. | ||
| You've got to get this thing a little longer if you can. | ||
| You know what I mean? | ||
| Yeah, we'll do what we can. | ||
|
unidentified
|
You know, I was very upset that the Super Collider was cancelled. | |
| I think that's a great slap in the face to any future we have as far as... Well, the Super Collider is cancelled. | ||
| You just heard George talk about the SETI program going down the drain, and I think they're cutting back on the space station bit by bit. | ||
|
unidentified
|
There's got to be some reason for that, that they're not telling us. | |
| I think it's just pin-headedness. | ||
| I mean, it's pin-headedness taking to the pinnacle. | ||
| You know, we are going through tough times. | ||
| We do have a deficit to deal with. | ||
| People don't want to pay higher taxes, but this is drop-in-the-bucket stuff. | ||
|
unidentified
|
It's so easy for the government to cut $20 million to Bosnia or something, you know. | |
| I don't even want to get into that. | ||
| I just think it's important to have fundamental scientific research going on. | ||
|
unidentified
|
That's the way I feel. | |
| Yeah. | ||
|
unidentified
|
So, um, oh man, um, what was I going to say? | |
| I don't know, sir. | ||
| You're, um, calling me. | ||
| I'm calling you. | ||
| I'm calling you. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Oh, John Lear always says that we're 30 years ahead of where we are. | |
| I firmly believe that. | ||
| I'll listen off the air. | ||
| I'd like George Knapp's opinion on that. | ||
| All right, thank you. | ||
| That we're actually at least 30 years ahead scientifically of where we apparently seem to be, George. | ||
| Well, as I alluded to earlier in the program, John has a lot of Opinions which I do not share, and I've seen no indication that that is the case. | ||
| Although you admit that we may possess technology that could have been shared by aliens that we don't know about, right? | ||
| Sure, but I suspect that if we do have that technology, that 30 years is far from an accurate figure. | ||
| Okay. | ||
| Wild Card Line 2, good evening. | ||
| You're on the air with George Knapp. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Good evening. | |
| George, I was wondering if you ever heard of a book called Matrix 2? | ||
| Yes. | ||
|
unidentified
|
You have. | |
| How accurate is it, do you think? | ||
| Well, again, that's put together by some people here in Nevada that I had some brief contact with. | ||
| There's a lot of stuff in there. | ||
| It's a big book. | ||
| It's very lengthy, yes. | ||
| I think it's like a lot of other things in the UFO field, that it's a mixture of stuff that can be supported and stuff that's a lot of speculation, and it's important for the reader to know the difference between the two. | ||
| I can't tell you page for page what's true and what's not, because I don't have access to all that information. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Well, was there a place called Paradox up in Nevada? | |
| Not that I know of. | ||
| Not you know of. | ||
|
unidentified
|
And what about the various Syrian males and Syrian females and the Orion group? | |
| Well, again, that gets a little far afield from what I know to be supportable. | ||
| It's just such a crazy field and people can print what they want and it's very difficult to prove that it is either accurate or inaccurate. | ||
| And a lot of folks are in this field to make money. | ||
| A lot of them are into it for disinformation purposes. | ||
| A lot of them just want attention. | ||
| Fire beware. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Do you think this thing could have a lot of that disinformation in it then? | |
| I'm not sure I want to give it that label. | ||
| I know the guy who puts this stuff out. | ||
| He's an interesting man who has extensive military contacts. | ||
| I'll just leave it at that. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Okay. | |
| Alright, thank you, caller. | ||
| And, uh, good evening. | ||
| Line 3, hello there. | ||
| Uh, Ketone Line 3, you're on the air with George Knapp. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Okay, um, I have a little quote here for you. | |
| Uh, there is no proof, there are no authorities, whatever, no president, academy, court of law, congress or senate on this earth has the power or the knowledge to decide what will be the knowledge of tomorrow. | ||
| That was Wilhelm Reich. | ||
| But, uh, you were talking about, um, A case of evidence for extraterrestrials. | ||
| I think a lot of people have to get an idea of perspective of their place in our universe by sheer numbers. | ||
| For example, our galaxy, the Milky Way galaxy, is just a couple hundred thousand light years in diameter. | ||
| And we're in what they call a local group of galaxies. | ||
| Which is 300 million light years in diameter. | ||
| Now, outside of this local group of galaxies, which is about 20 galaxies, there's a big void of space. | ||
| But then you come across these galaxy clusters, which are clusters of galaxies, like the Virgo Cluster. | ||
| That has a thousand galaxies in it. | ||
| All right, you're doing a Carl Sagan to us. | ||
| Where are you headed here? | ||
|
unidentified
|
Well, where I'm heading here is this. | |
| Well, at one time, people believed that the Earth was flat. | ||
| And there's probably a good case. | ||
| You could probably still prove today that the Earth was flat, because actually, you can't actually see the evidence of the world not being flat. | ||
| Well, you can, but there's always a counter-argument for the world being flat. | ||
| Well, not one that makes sense. | ||
| I mean, we have spacecraft that clearly show us the world is not flat. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Yeah, that's true, but still, when you think about the perspective and the shape of a sphere, and if you put it on a flat screen, it looks round, but actually that's flat. | |
| No, get away from that. | ||
| I think what happens is people lose their perspective of our place in the universe by sheer numbers, because all we are, Earth, is just a... it's not even the focus of the solar system here. | ||
| The Milky Way Galaxy is on the suburbs of our local group, and our Sun is in the suburbs of the Milky Way Galaxy, So by sheer numbers, there has to be trillions and trillions and trillions of stars out there. | ||
| So by sheer numbers alone, the evidence is overwhelming. | ||
| And do you think that the galactic void, do you think that there's like an area that you come to towards, say like you have all these other galaxy clusters, do you think there's a finite You know, in other words, once you step out of the realm of these galaxy clusters, that there's an end to the universe. | ||
| Alright, thank you. | ||
| That was a long trip to get there. | ||
| In other words, George, is there an end to it all? | ||
| Sounds like a question my son would ask. | ||
| Oh, yeah, and I'm sure you are as pleased to get that question as I am. | ||
|
unidentified
|
I have no idea. | |
| Well, you're the guest. | ||
| You answer it. | ||
| I'll put it this way. | ||
| is that it's often the cliche you hear the most in UFO circles is there's so many planets, | ||
| so many galaxies, there has to be light down there, which is a good point, and it's a reason | ||
|
unidentified
|
people like to learn about these things. | |
| ...and that's pretty surprising, because that's all we can answer. | ||
| ...we have not boiled with the theory that the west is now an exo-terrestrial city, | ||
| we're not exo-terrestrials, although the people who are counting here are afraid to be exo-terrestrials, | ||
|
unidentified
|
but it's just that I would ask all my other students, even if you have any of the largest | |
| observatories, I'd like to know, how many of you have been to the exo-terrestrial city? | ||
|
unidentified
|
How many of you have been to the exo-terrestrial city? | |
| I'd like to know, and maybe from other people, other times, Uh, they can be from anywhere or nowhere, anytime or no time. | ||
| So to suggest they are merely extraterrestrial, I think, is missing the larger picture, which I hope and believe is going to turn out to be far more wondrous than we could imagine at this point. | ||
| Excellent. | ||
| Boy, you've been a good guest, George. | ||
| Good evening, Wild Card Line 2. | ||
| You're on the air with George Knapp. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Hello, Art and George. | |
| Where are you calling from? | ||
|
unidentified
|
I'm right here in Las Vegas. | |
| All right, go ahead. | ||
|
unidentified
|
And, George, I don't know if you still live here. | |
| I know you did in the past. | ||
| And I have a number of questions, but I'll limit it to one this week. | ||
| George, have you been on, I think it's Highway 93 on the way towards Searchlights from Vegas? | ||
| And they've got this, I believe it's called an ELF, Extremely Low Frequency Transmitter set up antenna system that communicates with submarines. | ||
| Right, yeah. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Okay, my question concerns this UFO sightings, light and Always seems to be the common denominator. | |
| Of course, you know, for a visitor to sight something, you've got to have light. | ||
| Have you ever investigated or heard anything about why that ELF station, you've probably seen it when it was strobing at night over, you know, like a mile long. | ||
| Why those strobes were there on a system that's really designed to communicate with submarines underwater, you know, some thousands of miles away? | ||
| That's really my question. | ||
| What's the light factor? | ||
| Why the six-stroke thing? | ||
| All right, all right, thank you. | ||
| I know something about the ELF transmitter, George, but I didn't know anything about a light frequency stroke. | ||
| I've seen them out there. | ||
| In fact, I've seen something similar up to Area 51. | ||
| I've got three or four videos that people have captured of something weird, like a strobe effect, flipping around. | ||
| Some of them are white, some of them are red. | ||
| I don't know the connection. | ||
| I've had the same thought. | ||
| You know, the basic question I have is why that facility is out there in the first place. | ||
| It's a strange place to have something that's, you know, keeping in contact with submarines out in the middle of the desert. | ||
| If you have some information on that, I'd like to hear it. | ||
| No, I know that the main ELF transmitter, I think, is up in the upper Midwest somewhere, isn't it? | ||
| That's unknown to me. | ||
| Okay, yes, it is. | ||
| It's miles and miles of underground transmission line. | ||
| Line 3, you're going to be about our last caller this evening. | ||
| Good evening, you're on the air with George Knapp. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Good evening. | |
| Yes, sir, good evening. | ||
|
unidentified
|
I'm glad you're there. | |
| I tuned in a little late, and I heard George talking about when he was Back in the Midwest, and he wanted to get his bearings straight on what the local opinion might be, you know, regarding their religion and everything. | ||
| And I'm not here to preach or anything else, but I would just think it would be a mighty dangerous thing to have a world without religion. | ||
| Indeed. | ||
| Just something to think about. | ||
| All right, thank you. | ||
| I guess it would be, wouldn't it? | ||
| I can't argue with that, and I don't think anything that we're talking about is inconsistent with religion. | ||
| I think a lot of what the aliens or these visitors have communicated to abductees and others they've communicated with is that their own religious beliefs are not all that inconsistent. | ||
| All right, George, we're out of time. | ||
|
unidentified
|
We're out of time. | |
| I have no choice. | ||
| I wish we could go on for hours, but we can't. | ||
| You've been a wonderful guest. | ||
| I'm going to have you back as a guest. | ||
| I'm here. | ||
|
unidentified
|
All right. | |
| All right. | ||
| George, thank you. | ||
| George Knapp, our guest. | ||
|
unidentified
|
That's it. | |
| Area 2000's over, because there's no more time. | ||
| Remember, if you have something that you want investigated, you have comments on the show, you're welcome to make them to the Bigelow Foundation. | ||
| Angela Thompson is your contact. | ||
| Angela Thompson. | ||
| Area code 702-456-1606. | ||
| Back next Sunday at about the same time. | ||
| Good morning, everybody. | ||
| Make that good evening. | ||
| Take care. | ||
| See you next week. | ||
| The preceding program was made possible by a grant from the Bigelow Foundation. | ||
| This has been Area 2000, a program that introduces our listeners to the scientific approach for discussion of two particular subjects, UFOs and near-death and after-death experiences. | ||
| The content of the Bigelow Foundation is controlled by the U.S. | ||
| and after that experiences. | ||
|
unidentified
|
The contact information is small and we expect you to contact us at | |
| area code 7 0 2 8 4 5 6 1 6 0 6. | ||
| Ask for Angela Thompson at area code 7 0 2. | ||
| That's Area Code 702-456-1606. |
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