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June 20, 1993 - Art Bell

04:51:28

Coast to Coast AM with Art Bell - Al Bielek - Philadelphia Experiment

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al bielek

01:21:43

01:11:27

preston nichols

49:27

ron jenkins

08:01

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unidentified		Tonight on the best of Art Bell, Chancellor Broadcasting presents Classic Art Bell.
		We reached deep into the archives to 1993 for an all-time favorite show, three hours of art's fascinating and captivating interview with Al Bielick, who details his personal experience with the Philadelphia Experiment.
		The show is from Deep, Deep, Deep in the Archives, the Quent Montauk Experiment.
		And now, hour number one, featuring Art Bell and Al Bielick on the Philadelphia Experiment.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Without any more delay, let's go talk with Mr. Bielick in Phoenix.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And good morning, Alfred Bielick?
preston nichols ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Welcome to the show.
al bielek ▲ ● ▼		Thank you very much.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I almost don't know where to start.
		I guess the best thing to do is first find out about you, whatever we can.
		What is your background, Alfred?
al bielek ▲ ● ▼		Well, my background is Al Bielick as I was an electronic engineer.
		That's from for 30 years, from 1958 to 88, but that had no bearing whatever on the Philadelphia experiment and the history for that.
		The history for the Philadelphia experiment involving not only the USS Eldridge, but some earlier ships in experimentation goes back a long ways.
		Actually goes back to 1931 when the first experimental considerations of the possibility of making an object invisible were engaged by Dr. Nicola Tesla, Dr. John Hutchinson of the University of Chicago, and a staff physicist by the name of Dr. Amel Kurtenauer, all of whom were at that time at the University of Chicago.
		Tesla was a man who got around quite a bit, and unlike the stories which have been told about him being a recluse in his little room in the Hotel New York for the last 12 years of his life, that was anything but true.
		He was very busy, perhaps busier the last 12 years of his life than in the previous period.
		But these three people were involved in the consideration of how do you make an object invisible.
		And this was what we would today call a feasibility study, and this took place at the University of Chicago for about three years.
		And at that time, it was moved to the then rather brand new Institute of Advanced Study at Princeton, New Jersey.
		At that time, it was a think tank, if you will, and it was perhaps the premier think tank of the world.
		Because the initial staffing, which started in 1933, involved people like Dr. John von Neumann, Albert Einstein, Dr. Alexander, and Dr. Oswald Abelin.
		They were the four original staff members, and many other people came on board at various times after that.
		Tesla worked with them at the Institute, but he was never a staff member.
		He was one of the people who came and went, if you will.
		He was still maintaining a lot of other experimental work, a lot of other jobs he was doing.
		He was, in fact, a member of the team of RCA Corporation from the day of its inception in 1919 until he retired in 1939.
		In the last four years of his life, he was Vice President and Director of Engineering Worldwide for RCA Corporation.
		It's not a fact that it's well known.
		In fact, it is rather well, shall we say, swept under the rug.
		Because various interests don't want the public to know the position that Tesla actually held.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Al, a lot of the fictional accounts of invisibility, from the Invisible Man, which is a fairly recent movie, to the Philadelphia Experiment and a number of others, all seem to deal with very high-energy electromagnetic fields.
al bielek ▲ ● ▼		That is correct.
		The original work involved electromagnetics, but it's actually electromagnetics going beyond the range of electromagnetics.
		And the work when they transferred it to the Institute in 1934 went onward.
		In 1936, they had an experimental test, which is partly successful, but anything but fully successful.
		Gave them an idea of the fact that they were going in the right direction.
		And by 1940, the Navy, in the meantime, had funded this project almost from the beginning with some research funds from the Office of Naval Engineering.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		They were interested from a defense point of view, obviously.
al bielek ▲ ● ▼		That's correct.
		That is the object.
		And Franklin Delano Roosevelt was very interested in this project from the beginning because Tesla was an old friend of his.
		And that friendship goes back to World War I in 1917 when Roosevelt, then Under Secretary of the Navy, invited Tesla to do some work, war work for the government, which Tesla readily agreed to do.
		Tesla was, among other things, a patriot.
		He didn't believe in this country very strongly, and he did a great deal of work for the government.
		And then when the war was over, he became part of the new organization of RCA.
		There's a great deal of history for Tesla, which I could go into, but it's not germane really to the subject.
		In any case, they went onward with the research work, and by 1940, they had a fully successful test at the Brooklyn Navy Yard involving a small Navy ship, the Tender.
		And there were two ships adjacent, one starboard, one port, which carried most of the heavy equipment, and the balance of the equipment, the special coils and antenna were installed on the ship, which was to be made invisible.
		The important point of that test was while it was completely successful, there were no personnel on board.
		It was completely deserted insofar as any people, any personnel of any kind.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So they made a smaller ship disappear in when, 1940?
al bielek ▲ ● ▼		1940.
		Late in the year, at the Brooklyn Navy Yard.
		With that test, they knew that they had a successful system.
		Everyone was related, including the Navy, Franklin Don and Roosevelt, and of course they immediately classified the project.
		Up to that point, it was an open research project conducted by the Institute of Advanced Study.
		It was not classified.
		And it was purely research conducted by the Institute with some Navy backing, Navy funds.
		Tazel was named the original director by Roosevelt in 1934.
		Tarzel remained director for this project until March of 1942.
		Now, there's a lot more history in here, and I'm going to have to fill in and let you know how I got involved in this thing.
		I was not born Al Bielick, I was born Edward Cameron, and that was in August 4th, 1916.
		Somewhat at variance with my birth certificate as Al Bielik, which says I was born in March of 1927.
		I was actually born in 1916.
		My father was Alexander Duncan Cameron Sr., who was a Navy man.
		And he went into the Navy, since we can't find any records to show when he went in and when he left, estimated in 1910, because he was born in 1891.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Why is there this disparity in your birth certificate and your real age and real name?
al bielek ▲ ● ▼		Well, we have to get into the rest of the story to understand why.
		There was no secret about my history at that time up through that entire period, nor nor my brother, who was Duncan Cameron, who was born about seven months after I was.
		Same father, different mother.
		Father was a, shall we say, a ladies' man, and he had quite a few under his wing.
		Two common law marriages at that time, the first two wives were not legal, but from that point on they were legal.
		In any case, 1917, the war became a hot issue.
		He was called by the Navy to go to sea, and he abandoned the two women, and we were both raised by Auntie Cameron in Long Island.
		Auntie Arnold, actually, is her name, married.
		And we never saw Father except maybe once a year.
		We both had the advantage of a family with money and with social position, and we were admonished by Father to go get a good education, which in the Depression years, of course, was probably the appropriate thing to do because there wasn't much else to do.
		So we did.
		We both acquired an education in physics, Ph.D. I first went to Princeton, then I was transferred to Harvard at Dr. Von Neumann's suggestion because I met him at Princeton.
		Took a Ph.D. from Harvard in the summer of 1939 and my brother Duncan from the University of Edinburgh, Edinburgh, Scotland, and also the summer of 1939.
		By father's insistence and arrangement, we both joined the Navy in September 1939.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So you have a Ph.D. in physics?
al bielek ▲ ● ▼		Under the name of Edward Cameron.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I see.
al bielek ▲ ● ▼		Ottis Albelek.
		I have to stress that because of what happened later.
		So we both joined the Navy.
		We were given, Joey Sage, a 90-day wonder school treatment by the Navy for officers who were for special assignment.
		We were given commissions upon enlistment at Lieutenant J.G., which was quite standard at that time.
		And then in January 1940, we were assigned to the Institute, the Institute of Ant Study, where we were brought up to speed on the project.
		We didn't know really what we were going to be assigned to, but we knew we were going to be on some special project.
		And that's how we became, both Duncan, my brother, and myself became involved in the Philadelphia experiment.
		It was not called the Philadelphia Experiment in the early stage.
		It was still known as Project Invisibility.
		That's correct.
		Pro name under the code name given by the Navy when they classified it was Project Rainbow.
		So we were brought on board at the Institute here in 1940, in January, and then they had the test in September, and then it was when they classified it and it became Project Rainbow.
		It was still Project Invisibility when we joined.
		Now after that, they set up offices in the Philadelphia Navy Yard.
		Of course, they had a lot of space there.
		And the classified aspects of this project there were continued at the Philadelphia Navy Yard, and of course the project was also still continued at the Institute in Princeton on the Princeton grounds.
		And the Institute was not part of the university.
		It was on university property.
		It was a totally separate entity.
		Under separate control, separate financing, and the whole nine yards.
		It was a separate entity.
		So the project was ongoing.
		And with a successful test, Risabilt told Tesma he was giving him a somewhat larger ship to make invisible, literally a battleship.
		And he said, you know, Tesla, if you make that invisible, you can make anything invisible.
		So we proceeded to prepare for this, add a water equipment, do a lot of further work.
		And I might add that at that time, Tesla was, up until 1939, still involved with RCA, and he only showed up in the project maybe once a week.
		I did meet him a couple of times.
		And he was ongoing still with his other lab research and lab work.
		He had not been a recluse by any means.
		I'll give you a quick thumbnail of what he had done in the period from 1931 onward when he was the alleged recluse twiddling his thumbs in the hotel room.
		In 1931, he had successfully produced a source of, shall we say, free power, which was successful enough that he converted a Pierce Arrow automobile to an electric drive with a 75-horse motor under the hood and a little black box he carried around with him, plugged into the dashboard when he wanted to go somewhere and demonstrate this car and its feasibility.
		Drove all over New York City, much to the elation of the press, and there was a lot of press coverage at the time.
		Eventually drove upstate New York and all over New York State.
		And eventually the car was abandoned somewhere as I do not know the history of what happened to the car.
		He was also working on such things as particle beam weapon systems.
		He had a successful one by 1935.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Al, I've heard a lot of this about Tesla, and I've always wondered if Tesla had all of this incredible technology developed then, what happened to it?
		In other words, what happened to the documentation?
		He was a scientist.
		I presume he documented his work.
		Why is it all lost, Al?
al bielek ▲ ● ▼		It's not lost.
		It was, shall we say, swept under the rug here in the U.S. after he died.
		It was not lost at that time.
		He still had his laboratory going.
		He was in communication with other governments and scientists all over the world.
		The particle beam weapon system is quite curious in itself.
		He offered it to the United States.
		He went through a process known as a military border review.
		And they were, at first, in favor of it, but the final vote cast it out.
		They were not, in terms of the final vote on it, interested.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, that's Star Wars today.
al bielek ▲ ● ▼		What I was saying about Chasling, the particle beam weapon system, he offered it to Canada at that time in 35 approximately, and they turned it down.
		It was offered to England not once, but many times from 35 to 1939, they turned it down.
		And they offered it to Russia in 1935, and they bought it.
		This is not well known, but they bought a working model under U.S. consultancy for $25,000 cash.
		And a friend of mine here in Phoenix, who had access to the Russian embassy in recent years, found, he checked that story himself, and the Russians admitted that, yes, they did purchase the working model from Tesla in 1935, but it was lost during the war years with all the bombing, the shelling, and everything else that went on during the war years.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Now, how was enough energy available at that time prior to nuclear power for a particle beam weapon?
al bielek ▲ ● ▼		Well, it doesn't use that much power.
		It used high voltage, 200 million volts, for a full-scale system, lesser voltage for a smaller system.
		It did not require high power.
		It required high voltage and a relatively minor amount of power because the output tube, which I've seen and do have photos, or I should say sketches from, or working sketches from his notes, showed a continuously evacuated tube which was evacuated on a continuously pumped basis because it had to have an open end for the discharge of the particle beam.
		And the full-scale system would have required 200 million volts.
		The model is much lower.
		But the voltage was at very low current.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You say continually evacuated.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I understand particle beam weapons are much more effective in space where this was intended for ground use on the surface.
al bielek ▲ ● ▼		Right.
		In space, they don't have that problem.
		That's very true.
		In any case, that was only one of the things he worked on.
		He also worked on a death ray system demonstrated in 1938-39 at White Sands Proving Grounds, and our friend had those notes for a number of years until they were taken, shall we say, by the government.
		He found out he had them in private holding, and they were removed.
		Now, he left RCA, then had more time to spend on this project and his own laboratory work, because he was still very active.
		And in 1940, the successful test, and then he went on to prepare the battleship for the test at a later date.
		Now, in 1941, the Navy tapped Duncan and myself on the shoulder and said, it's time you find out what the Navy's about and sent us to sea for a year.
		It wasn't exactly a year, us on the USS Pennsylvania.
		And from January of 1941 until approximately October, we were all over the Pacific.
		And then the Pennsylvania came into dry doubt for overhaul in Pearl Harbor.
		And that's a matter of public record.
		Anyone can check.
		And we were on liberty and leave.
		We went to San Francisco on July, I'm sorry, December 5th.
		We were to return to Pearl Harbor.
		We were about to board a plane at the Naval Air Station in Alameda.
		And we were stopped.
		Naval captain said the orders are canceled.
		We were taken to the room and we were interviewed by then director of the Office of Naval Engineering, Hal Bowen Sr., who told us that we expect the Japanese will attack Pearl Harbor within 48 to 72 hours.
		We consider you people to be too valuable to send back there, so stay in San Francisco, which we did.
		And we returned to the Institute in 1942, and of course, Pearl Harbor on December 7th is history.
		Now, we returned to the project, and preparations were well underway and nearly complete for the battleship test.
		And Tesla was having considerable misgivings about it at that time.
		He knew because of the extremely high power required, electromagnetic power, that there could be damage to dead sailors because the equipment was going to be on the deck, and the rotating fields were very powerful, and any personnel on deck would be exposed to them, and he expected there would be serious problems.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And there's a good cliffhanger point.
		I've got an additional quick break and a couple of them coming up here, so stand by just one sec, Al.
		The Philadelphia Experiment's what we're talking about.
		Al Bielick is my guest.
unidentified		This is the CBC Radio Network.
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		Good morning, everybody.
		Welcome back.
		I'm Mark Bell, my guest, Al Felick, in Phoenix of the Philadelphia Experiment.
		We're getting up to it now.
		Al, you say that Tesla is having misgivings.
		I want to stop and ask you for a second about electromagnetic fields.
		I have a bad back, Al, and I had an MRI once, and I had a demonstration by the technician of the strength of the magnetic field, and it was quite incredible, very strong.
		And yet, other than being able to see inside my body, there was No measurable effect.
		Now, suddenly, in our modern society, we're all of a sudden beginning to say, well, maybe there is an effect on the biological human being from electromagnetic fields.
		You know, all the controversy about the power lines and all the rest of it.
		So apparently there may be something, but I always thought magnetics, as a general rule, didn't have any effect at all on flesh and blood.
al bielek ▲ ● ▼		Well, if it's a DC field, you will find little or no effect.
		The problem is if it's an AC field, it's certain critical window frequencies.
		These have been shorted, of course, since that day and that period.
		The information is well known now.
		There are critical window frequencies which affect the brain directly because the brain is affected and is receptive to magnetic frequencies and modulation in the magnetic domain.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		But only alternating current.
al bielek ▲ ● ▼		That's correct.
		An alternating field or even it's a pulsed field, of course, the Fourier series of frequencies, harmonics, which attain to a pulsed train, you have the same problem.
		Of course, a pulsed output or a square wave output, you have many more frequencies than the fundamental.
unidentified		Absolutely.
al bielek ▲ ● ▼		Now, that was only part of the problem.
		The other aspect is that high-frequency electric fields, that is RF fields, will also affect the body and the brain if it's at the right frequencies.
		The Japanese did a lot of work on this during World War II.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, no, absolutely.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		In fact, at high enough frequencies, you literally cook as you would in a microwave oven.
al bielek ▲ ● ▼		Very true.
		And even without cooking, you have frequencies which will affect the mind and the brain.
		And the effect on the neurological system is not at the level of RF heating, which was the old standard in the United States.
		The Russians long since have learned better, and of course they do know better here now.
		But the standard used to be one-tenth of a watt around milliwatts per square inch was considered the threshold of heating of human tissue, and that was considered the danger point, and no consideration was given to the biological effects of much weaker fields.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Over long term as well.
al bielek ▲ ● ▼		Long term or short term.
		Window frequency short term.
		That, of course, isn't modern data, and it's all the results of the thought out experiment and with the aftermath and all of the studies that were made.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I don't want to get too technical on everybody, Al, but I would be interested, what kind of frequency range are you talking about when you say window frequencies?
al bielek ▲ ● ▼		Window frequencies, in terms of the human brain and magnetic response, you're dealing in frequencies typically below 30 hertz.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, very low frequencies, then?
al bielek ▲ ● ▼		That's correct.
al bielek ▲ ● ▼		ELF.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, I'll be darned.
		And I thought you were going to say just the opposite.
		I thought you were going to talk about 1 gigahertz and up.
al bielek ▲ ● ▼		ORF, you will talk about high frequencies in the range of the spinal resonance around 450 megahertz.
al bielek ▲ ● ▼		The brain cavity resonance is somewhere, depending on the size of the cavity of the human head, anywhere from roughly 850 to 1,000 megahertz, or 1 gigahertz, which also gets into the range of the cellular phone and the problem.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I was just about to say that.
		These people holding these cellular phones up ought to perhaps think better of it.
		One second, Al, stand by.
unidentified		Fascinating.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		We'll be right back.
unidentified		We'll be right back.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		This is CBC.
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	You're listening to Art's 1993 interview with Al Bielick on this, the absolute best of Coast-to-Coast AM with Art Bell.
	Hop of the morning, everybody.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Al Bielick in Phoenix is with us again, Al.
		That's just a little break for other stations to join the net.
		All right, Al.
al bielek ▲ ● ▼		That's an old side issue, but that comes into play when one considers the final results of the test on the average.
		But let's come back to the basic story here.
		Tesla was concerned because he knew with the amount of power that was involved that there would be serious problems with Navy personnel.
		He went to the Navy and asked for an extension of time.
		He says he was certain he could solve the problem, but he needed more time.
		And of course, he received the usual answer at that time with there's a war on, you've got to test aid and meet it.
		So he had the choice of going ahead and hoping for the best, or as he did choose, sabotage the test, detune the equipment so nothing happened and nobody was hurt.
		And of course, he at that point...
		That was the first test of a big ship.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And he detuned the equipment, actually took it off frequency so it wouldn't happen?
al bielek ▲ ● ▼		That's correct.
al bielek ▲ ● ▼		He deliberately sabotaged the test.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I'll be doing.
al bielek ▲ ● ▼		No one was hurt.
		And of course, that altered his historic record of having an impeccable history of never failing on any project.
		So he did on that one and he bowed out and says, the test is a failure, gentlemen.
		I have other things to do.
		I'm leaving this project.
		Well, the question is whether he left voluntarily or had a little assistance from the Navy.
		It doesn't matter.
		He left the project.
		And it was not very long after that, since this was March 42.
		In January of 1943, he died, and that was on the 7th of January.
		But he was separated from the project at that point and turned it over to Dr. John Van Neumann, who then became the director.
		And Van Neumann looked at the projects, told the Navy, I'll have to look and see what went wrong.
		It didn't take him long to find out what was wrong, but he decided to avail himself of the time and redesign the equipment.
		And he went, unlike Tesla, who was an analog man, liked to use continuous waves with special modulation waveforms, Van Neumann was a man who liked to do pulsed work.
		In other words, pulse the system with energy.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		As you would radar.
al bielek ▲ ● ▼		As you would radar, exactly.
unidentified		Sure.
al bielek ▲ ● ▼		And he decided to redesign the equipment for that.
		The basic mathematics, the basic approach was still the same.
		And the basic approach involved rotating fields, a rotating magnetic field outside of a rotating electric field, both counterclockwise.
		And the equipment design involved some changes, particularly upping the power.
		Von Neumann went up to a two-megawatt power output with a booster on each RF transmitter.
		I can't say a standard AM transmitter, but a standard transmitter of the day, which they were pushing the state of the art because the output was 160 megahertz, which was high frequency in those days, but definitely within the realm of capability because radar was functional in those days, and they were running a still higher frequency.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You'd say 160 megahertz.
al bielek ▲ ● ▼		Right, at two megawatts.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, my gosh.
		That's a VHF frequency typically used by two-way communications.
		Police are a little lower, but it's in that area.
al bielek ▲ ● ▼		But those days, it was in the radar range because he didn't go to 400 megahertz range for radar until the war was over.
unidentified		Right.
al bielek ▲ ● ▼		And that was as far as the RF transmitters were concerned, four of them, feeding a special quadratase antenna.
		And I'm speaking of the final design for the Elverage, which was the antenna was designed by G. Townsend Brown.
		He had been pulled into the Navy in 1938 to work on another problem, namely the German magnetic mines.
		But he was also an RF man, and he made contributions to the project.
		Now, in the redesign by von Neumann, he decided that he wanted a ship which was designed from the ground up for these tests.
		So this was roughly in the spring months of 1942, about roughly July, he went to the Newark shipbuilding yards, which were not far from Philadelphia, picked a number off a drawing board, DE173, and gave instructions how he wanted the ship modified.
		Namely, we're not completely complete and finished the interior of the ship, leave it cutted, put two rails along the bottom, and leave gun turret number two unfinished so they could drop the heavy equipment in.
		In the case of the battleship and trying to outfit it without designing it from the ground up, the heavy equipment was on the deck.
		So he wanted two large generators for the four Tesla coils buried in the guts of the ship.
		They were 75 kVA each, driven by a 750 horsepower motor with two right-angle gearbox drives, and that's some pretty heavy equipment.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, it is.
al bielek ▲ ● ▼		And that went in the hold of the ship, along with the diesel electric generator, to supply power for the system, which was totally separate from ship's power.
		And that was an 8-megawatt monster.
		So they had some heavy equipment in the hold.
		And the ship came down the ways in September of 1942, went into dry dock.
		They put their heavy equipment in board the ship.
		And then in September, I'm sorry, December of 1942, the ship under its own power went to the Philadelphia Navy Yard in the interior section, which was the classified work.
		And the rest of the electronic equipment was installed.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I wish to stop you for a second so that I can understand the layout of the fields again.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You've got an RF field, I take it first.
al bielek ▲ ● ▼		Yes, under special mast midships on top of the highest mast of the ship.
		And this produced a rotating electric field because of the design of the rest of the electronic equipment.
		And the field was provided by four transmitters, each were pulsed at special pulse rates, which is part of the whole system, and a lot of electronics which preceded it.
		Now, in addition to that, you had four large conical Tesla coils.
		When I say a Tesla coil, not the full-blown type which one is familiar with today, with a primary and a secondary, but a single coil, which was round in a conical shape, narrow at the top, white at the base.
		It was one inch, essentially one-inch copper tubing, hollow and cooled.
		And it was a single turn, like a spiral, expanding.
		It was fed at the top and the bottom, and cables from the generator.
		They had two large generators, two outputs from each generator.
		And these were phased due to the rest of the electronic equipment so that you had a rotating magnetic field because of the phasing of the generators and the associated electronics.
		So these four coils were placed on the deck of the Eldridge, two forward, two aft, and of course there were two in starboard and two port.
		And they were symmetrically arranged around the antenna.
		And they were driven with very high power current pulses.
		And there was a certain rate, approximately a 10% duty cycle, and frequency so that you wound up with a rotating magnetic field.
		This rotating field was outside of the electric field in essence.
		And without getting too technical on this, I'm still trying to understand.
unidentified		I'm sorry, Al, don't mean to interrupt.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Was the RF field rotating or was it a constant output?
al bielek ▲ ● ▼		Oh, they were both rotating.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		They were both rotating.
al bielek ▲ ● ▼		At different frequencies.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		At different frequencies and not in synchronization other.
al bielek ▲ ● ▼		They were in synchronization, essentially, yes, because one was twice the rate of the other.
al bielek ▲ ● ▼		They were both tied, mathematically speaking, in terms of the rotating rate to what is a fundamental number for everything on this planet, namely pi over 2.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
		Okay.
		I think I finally understand.
al bielek ▲ ● ▼		Okay.
		Now, this, of course, was in the final embodiment of the equipment.
		The ship had to be outfitted with the electronic equipment and everything that went with it.
		Duncan and I were back on the project, of course, from January 42 onward.
		And we saw the failure of the battleship test.
		We saw the whole procedure for the development of the Eldridge, which at that time was not called the Eldridge.
		It was just the number, DE-173.
		It did not become the Eldridge until it was christened, which was in August of 43.
		Now, with outfitting of the ship, and there was a lot of testing and some other problems, of course, they never tested the full system until it was out in the harbor.
		They also went through the Navy and decided, when Norman decided the Navy concurred to have a special volunteer test crew for these tests, all volunteer.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		How many were aboard totally?
al bielek ▲ ● ▼		The final test, there was 15 sailors and about six officers for the test, each with the two tests for the Elgridge.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		15 sailors and how many officers?
al bielek ▲ ● ▼		Six.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Six officers.
al bielek ▲ ● ▼		And that was two off.
		Two of them included Duncan and myself.
		Because we were trained to run the equipment in the hold, actually, which was a control room on the surface of the ship behind steel doors and steel bulkheads.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So you weren't able to see out onto deck?
al bielek ▲ ● ▼		No.
al bielek ▲ ● ▼		Not with the bulkhead door closed, which was a normal procedure while operating the equipment.
unidentified		Right.
al bielek ▲ ● ▼		Well, in any case, there were a lot of preliminary tests preceding the final tests.
		And Van Neumann started to get the shakes about the personnel problem himself about, oh, roughly March of 1943.
		And he decided to add a third generator to try and produce a counterfield.
		And that never worked.
		It could never be synchronized with the other two.
		The other two required very special electronic.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		What was the purpose of the counter field?
al bielek ▲ ● ▼		To provide some kind of protection in Van Neumann's mind to the effects of the other main field to the personnel.
		The system never worked.
		It only succeeded in zapping a technician who was working with us in the control room.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		He was going to try and nullify the field in a certain area.
al bielek ▲ ● ▼		Correct.
		It didn't work, and he consequently abandoned the approach for the third generator, went back to the two-generator approach, and was essentially ready for tests in July of 1943.
		Now, all of this equipment was aboard the average.
		There were preliminary sectional tests, and we were thoroughly instructed in what was to be done and how the procedure was, because you have to understand in those days there were no computers.
		The computer was invented by Von Neumann, but at a later date, after the war was over.
		And everything was manually run, so that the concern at that time was to produce a field of invisibility which would be both optical and of course by 43.
		We had very good radar.
		It was developed in the years prior to the war, but was almost unknown until 1941-42.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So invisible optically and to radar?
al bielek ▲ ● ▼		And to radar.
		That's only an extension of one or the other because the optical high frequencies are a much higher electromagnetic frequency range than radar.
		Radar in those days was running around 160 to 200 megahertz.
		So the final test was the first test, not final, was decided to be held on the 20th of July.
		They spread it until the 22nd.
		And then they held it in the harbor of Philadelphia.
		There was an observer ship with a man running the test.
		The man in charge of it was a Captain Harrison, now dead.
		And of course, on that ship was an unnumbered, another scientist, another Navy personnel who was a carrier as the observer.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So he was at least confident enough to be on board during it himself?
al bielek ▲ ● ▼		He was on board the observer ship.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, I see.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Then he wasn't.
al bielek ▲ ● ▼		He was not on the eldritch.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I see.
al bielek ▲ ● ▼		No.
al bielek ▲ ● ▼		The only people on the eldritch are those who were involved directly in the test, which included Duncan and myself.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Did they advise you of the danger of what you were about to do?
unidentified		No.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		No.
al bielek ▲ ● ▼		No, they did not.
		There was no allusion to there being any real danger, but there was an allusion to the fact that there could be problems.
		And Norman did not expect any kind of a serious problem.
		In case of, for those who have seen the movie where they saw these banks and banks of electron tubes, I was quite accurate except for one thing.
		In the movie version, they showed miniature tubes.
		In the real version, they were using 6L6s in the large glass bulb size.
unidentified		6L6s?
al bielek ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I know about a 6L6.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That was the first tube I used in my first ham transmitter.
al bielek ▲ ● ▼		It was commonly used for many years, that's true.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		With a 6AG7 driver.
unidentified		Right.
al bielek ▲ ● ▼		6L6s were used to drive the field coils of the generators, 3,000 of them.
unidentified		Wow.
al bielek ▲ ● ▼		There was actually 300 per field coil.
		There were five field coils on each generator.
		Don't ask me why that configuration was chosen.
		I couldn't answer that one.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I'm very impressed, Al, with your ability to describe the technical aspect of this.
		I'm very pleased about that.
		I know a lot of people in the audience wouldn't understand it, but I'm understanding what you're saying, and you're very impressive.
al bielek ▲ ● ▼		So on the 22nd of July, they were ready for a test, and we were out in the harbor, and we received command by radio to the radio operator to proceed with the test, so we fired up the equipment in the appropriate order.
		And they ran the test for about 20 minutes.
		The ship was invisible to the eye other than for a slight haze in the area where the ship was.
		It was actually in the water, and it was totally invisible to radar.
		It just faded right off the radar screen.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Did that invisibility occur instantly, or did it sort of phase in slowly, or how did it?
al bielek ▲ ● ▼		It phased in slowly.
al bielek ▲ ● ▼		It did not occur instantly.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		How would you be able to confine the field precisely to the mass of the ship, Al, or did you actually take some seawater with you?
al bielek ▲ ● ▼		It took some seawater with you.
		That became the concern of Captain Harrison because he saw a large water line, much larger than the ship, and from his viewpoint on the technical carrier, looking with a pair of binoculars, all he could see was a big hole under the ship, and it appeared like the ship was floating in air.
		That is, there was a big gap there.
		He couldn't see the ship, but he could see that the, he knew the outline of the ship where it should be, and the water line was much larger than the ship, and he couldn't see at the bottom, so to speak, where the water was.
		It was a fairly deep section of the harbor.
unidentified		Wow.
al bielek ▲ ● ▼		And he became very concerned that maybe the ship was floating in air.
		It wasn't.
		But to all appearances, there was air there.
		And he was afraid because of the way the ship was put together with the gutted interior that the thing would break in half without water support.
		So he ordered the test terminated after 20 minutes.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, let's go to you for a moment.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		What was your job?
al bielek ▲ ● ▼		What were you doing at Fruits?
al bielek ▲ ● ▼		In other words, we had the dual responsibility not only of turning the equipment on in proper sequence, checking the meters, knowing what the basic physics involved was, but also, in case something went wrong, we had to diagnose what might have gone wrong and, if necessary, shut the equipment off.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, now a dumb question, and then we've got to take a break.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Once the invisibility occurred, or that effect began, as you looked at your own hand, what did you see?
al bielek ▲ ● ▼		A hand.
al bielek ▲ ● ▼		You see, the effect was not on board the ship.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, I see.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So, and as you looked at anything in the ship, it too appeared as normal.
al bielek ▲ ● ▼		Internally to the ship and to anyone on the deck, the ship appeared essentially normal, except for one factor.
al bielek ▲ ● ▼		There was a heavy haze around the ship, and that heavy haze was ozone gas, which was generated by these fields.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Ozone.
		Well, Al, what I'm going to ask you when we come back in a moment, I'm going to take a quick break, is where that ship went.
		Stand by, right there.
		We'll be right back to you.
		Al Belich is my guest.
		Wow.
		The Philadelphia experiment brought back to life for you this morning.
		We'll find out more.
		Top of the morning, everybody.
		Many of you have no idea that in our Senate there is a new bill, actually the second time around now for this bill, that will create a new money.
		A lot of people don't believe this for some reason.
		They just don't believe it.
		Well, there is going to be a new money.
		It'll be multicolored.
		There'll be two forms of it, one to use inside the country, one out.
		And a lot of people believe that eventual domestic devaluation of the dollar, that is, faster than the normal slow erosion that's going on, is inevitable.
		Now, if you want to see a copy of this Senate bill, my sponsor will send it to you without obligation and free of charge.
		All you've got to do is call and ask.
		Tell them I told you to call.
		Get a copy of this, show it to your friends, then they will believe too, Because it is true.
		It's North American trading, and a way to get your hand on the bill is to call 1-800-877-9799.
		Let me give that to you one more time, please.
		1-800-877-9799.
		That's North American Trading.
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unidentified		Music.
		You are listening to the best of Art Bell.
		From the Kingdom of Nile.
		Coast to Coast AM continues with Art Bell.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Al Belick is my guest from Phoenix.
		He was there.
		He operated some of the equipment.
		And I'm very impressed with the technical aspects of this.
		And I hope that the eyes are not glazing out there over some of the technical details.
		But the devil is in the details, and I have never had somebody as competent to discuss the technical details of something as incredible as this.
		And Al Belick's doing it very well.
		Al, are you still there?
		Yes.
		Good.
		So for 20 minutes, this ship disappeared.
		I'm going to ask a dumb question, ask, where did it go?
		And you're going to say nowhere.
al bielek ▲ ● ▼		It didn't go anywhere.
		They were still there in the harbor.
		There was, in fact, even a test with somebody coming by with a launch to see if they could touch the hull of the ship.
		Well, they were a little bit far away, but what they found was that there was a viscous-like resistant field.
		They couldn't even get their hand up to their elbow into it.
		It was resisting any attempt to penetrate it.
		So you were generating a field of a very unusual nature, and that field was outside of the ship at a fair distance, depending on the power.
		And actually, what you had was a toroidal field.
		And the toroidal field was rotating, but it was also bisected across the donut, like you slice the donut in half across the full diameter.
		One half of the field was above the water line, the other half was below the water line.
		Which produced a very unusual effect because the end result of that was your rotating magnetic field was essentially unipolar above the water line.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		What happened to the biological entities, the people, on board the ship?
al bielek ▲ ● ▼		When the order was given to terminate the test and return to dockside, there was no problem.
		They did return the ship to dockside.
		There were certain numbers of personnel stationed on the deck to see what they saw and what they observed.
		These people, these sailors, were totally disoriented, sick, nauseous, out of it, as the saying goes, and mentally very confused.
		They were not insane, and they were not in the state which happened on the second test.
		But in any case, the Navy says, well, it's no problem.
		We have another test crew, because they only took about one half of the special group who have trainees who went through a special 90-day training school at the Coast Guard Academy, headed by my father, believe it or not.
		And they said, well, we have another crew for you, no problem.
		And so Van Neumann says, well, I've got to find a means to solve this problem.
		And he asked the Navy for more time.
		Well, they didn't initially give him a date for the second test.
		But what happened was that after about a week, they said, okay, you've got a drop-dead date, the 12th of August, 1943.
		Complete your tests by then or forget it.
		Well, we couldn't figure out what the blazes this was all about.
		It made no sense that anyone had ever given such an order before.
		And I went to Halba and I said, where did this order come from?
		He found out it came from the chief of naval operations, who was Admiral King at that time, which made even less sense because he was only concerned with the operation of the Navy's part in the worldwide theater of operations and running the war.
		Why should he be concerned about an engineering test?
		We never did find the answer to that until many, many years later.
		But in any case, came the 12th.
		We had a great deal of concern about it.
		And Norman did not have time enough to make any major change in the equipment.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		We're almost over the news here, but why were your concerns greater about the second test than the first?
al bielek ▲ ● ▼		Well, we were concerned more about the second test for this reason.
		Captain Harrison had decided that because of what he saw through the binoculars, he wanted special additional tests run, like he put pressure reading equipment on the hull, inside and outside.
		A special crew, additional crew, was assigned to the Elverich.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, Al.
		Hold it there.
		Relax.
		We'll be back right after the news.
		Stay there, everybody.
unidentified		We'll be back.
		If you've missed any part of tonight's interviews with Al Bulek or Preston Nichols and you'd like to have a copy on tape, dial toll-free 1-800-917-4278 and ask for tape number 97-0217-C.
		The cost is $33.50 for all five hours without the commercials.
		That toll-free number is 1-800-917-4278.
		Thank you.
		You've got tax questions.
		Who doesn't?
		The important thing is, where do you go for answers?
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		Teletax is your 24-hour toll-free helpline.
		You'll have access to recorded information on about 150 tax topics, from deductions to dependents to business expenses, just call 1-800-829-4477.
		That's 1-800-829-4477 for teletax.
		At the IRS, we want to help.
		In fact, that's why we're here.
		In the next 60 seconds, I'm going to do something terrible to anyone who's ever wanted to play the piano.
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		Things were really cooking at the Safety Belt Steakhouse.
		When we pinched them.
		Ouch!
ron jenkins ▲ ● ▼		Betty gives us a ticket.
unidentified		That's right, and don't call me Betty.
unidentified		But we never wear safety belts.
ron jenkins ▲ ● ▼		See, we're dummies.
unidentified		And here's something even you can understand.
ron jenkins ▲ ● ▼		For a good time, Carl.
unidentified		No, this.
		A ticket?
		Police are now ticketing lowlights scum who don't wear safety belts, so buckle up.
ron jenkins ▲ ● ▼		Surely you can give us a break.
unidentified		No, and don't call me Shirley.
unidentified		A message from the Department of Transportation and the Ad Council.
ron jenkins ▲ ● ▼		USA Radio Network News, this is Ron Jenkins.
		The U.S. Ambassador to the United Nations begins his new job today.
		USA's Connie Lawn has the latest.
unidentified		Former New Mexico congressman replaces Madeline Albright in the position.
		The U.S. continues to press the U.N. for reform, but many in the U.N. claim they will not listen until the U.S. pays the more than $1 billion debt it owes.
		President Clinton says he wants to pay the money, but a majority of leaders in the Congress oppose the trends in the U.N. and are in no rush to repay the funds.
		County Lawn, USA Radio News, Washington.
ron jenkins ▲ ● ▼		Shuttle Discovery astronauts Mark Lee and Stephen Smith are wrapping up the fifth and final spacewalk this hour to finish upgrading the Hubble Space Telescope.
		They will re-enter the shuttle within the next few minutes.
		Mission Control says one of the final operations has just been completed.
unidentified		The instant the LGFC is removed.
		We can see it.
		The LGAC, that acronym standing for low-gain antenna cover.
		That was a protective cover.
		That's one of the first items placed on the bottom of the telescope to protect that antenna from any inadvertent bumping.
		That antenna cover has been now removed.
ron jenkins ▲ ● ▼		The Discovery crew will place the Hubble back in space orbit tonight, then begin wrapping up the mission after final testing of the telescope's new electronics.
ron jenkins ▲ ● ▼		This is USA Radio News.
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		This is a zero-risk offer.
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ron jenkins ▲ ● ▼		The investigation into alleged influence peddling in the 1996 presidential election has brought with it 20 new subpoenas and word from the chief investigator that there could be more.
		Dan Burton, Indiana Republican and chairman of the House Committee on Government Reform and Oversight, is working alongside Senator Fred Thompson's Governmental Affairs Committee looking at possible foreign influence in the U.S. election process.
		Jeff Birnbaum, Washington Bureau Chief of Fortune magazine, says Burton has a big job in front of him.
unidentified		Dan Burton, the chairman of the committee in the House that's looking into this, wishes he didn't have such an extensive investigation, but so much has been happening and so much has been flowing perhaps improperly into Democratic coffers that he's expanded his investigation and looks like he'll have a lot of work to do.
ron jenkins ▲ ● ▼		U.S. Secretary of State Madeleine Albright attended her first NATO foreign ministers meeting as she continues her nine-country tour.
		She's in France.
		This is USA Radio News.
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ron jenkins ▲ ● ▼		A Georgian diplomat expected to face trial in the U.S. for allegedly causing a fatal car crash and the death of a 16-year-old girl might serve some or all of his punishment in his native country.
ron jenkins ▲ ● ▼		USA's John Becker has more.
unidentified		Georgian President Edward Shevardnadze suggested in a radio interview that his government would push to have the Georgian diplomat serve any punishment in Georgia rather than the U.S. Shevardnadze says there will be serious negotiations with the U.S. as to where the diplomat, if he's found guilty, serves time.
		Prosecutors are expected to seek a grand Jury indictment charging the diplomat with involuntary manslaughter now that Georgia has waived its diplomatic immunity.
		John Decker, USA Radio News, Washington.
ron jenkins ▲ ● ▼		Sources in the Chinese capital, Beijing, say there are major concerns about the health of China's paramount leader, Deng Xiaoping.
		Sources say his health has deteriorated to the point that the country's chief leaders have cut short trips to the provinces to get back to Beijing.
		Ron Jenkins on the USA Radio Network.
unidentified		A race it.
		You may not even know it.
		You and your eyesight are in a race against time because the longer you live, the greater your risk of developing a retinal degenerative disease that could lead to blindness.
		Even if your eyesight is fine now, diseases like retinitis pigmentosa and macular degeneration could catch up with you, like it has for as many as 6 million Americans.
		This is one race you don't want to lose.
		Call the Foundation Fighting Blindness at 1-800-683-5555 for a free information packet on retinitis pigmentosa or macular degeneration, including information about symptoms, treatment, and research.
		After all, the more you know now, the better your chances of beating it later.
		Call the Foundation Fighting Blindness for your free information packet at 1-800-683-5555 today, because in the race against time, the cure in sight could be your own.
		Thank you.
		Tonight, while Art Bell is recovering from the cold he caught flying home from Mexico, Chancellor Broadcasting Company presents the absolute best of Art Bell.
		We take you way back to the scratchy analog days of 1993 to vintage Art Bell and his classic three-hour interview with Al Buelick, followed by two hours with Preston Nichols and the subsequent Montauk experiment.
		It's a dandy and one of Art's all-time favorite shows.
		And now, hour number two, featuring Art Bell and Al Buelick on the Philadelphia Experiment.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Al, are you still there?
al bielek ▲ ● ▼		Sam?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, let's talk second experiment.
unidentified		What?
al bielek ▲ ● ▼		Okay.
		To continue where I left off, they decided they wanted to do some pressure testing on the hull to find out exactly what was going on, have a second crew placed on board, which was to operate that equipment only.
		And they assigned a submarine to go under the ship and find out what was going on with the water line or whatever.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Makes sense, yeah.
al bielek ▲ ● ▼		So all of this was set up for the final test on the 12th of August.
		And we had the crew on board and everything ready to go.
		And the last minute, something happened.
		They pulled the crew, the special crew, put them on the sub, removed the sub, and then told us of the regular crew for the test to go ahead for the test.
		Well, at that point, needless to say, Duncan and I were very concerned, what's going on here?
		We had that funny gut feeling something was terribly wrong, but we didn't know what.
		So at the appropriate time, we were given the radio command to proceed.
		And we had two changes.
		One, the Navy decided to relax the requirement for optical invisibility of just radar because they decided, if you understand, in those days, there was no low rand, no shoreland, and none of the sophisticated navigation systems we have today or satellites or whatever.
		And if you didn't have radar visibility, you better have some kind of optical visibility at night in a storm, or you might be ramming adjacent ships in the convoy, because it was typically the way they ran across the Atlantic.
		It was in a large convoy.
		And they were trying to thwart the German sink rate, which was then approximately 50% of the shipping crossing the Atlantic.
		So there we were, and we had orders to proceed with the final test, finally received by radio, so we proceeded and fired up equipment.
		And for the first, to those observing on the outside, at this point, there were three observer ships.
		There was a carrier, there was a Coast Guard cutter, and there was a commercial ship known as the SS Freuset, a Merchant Marine ship.
		The Merchant Marine, of course, was very interested in this system.
		It had worked.
		They wanted to immediately outfit some of their ships crossing the Atlantic.
		So we had three observer ships.
		We turned the equipment on, and for about the first 70 or so seconds, everything appeared to be functioning according to plan, i.e.
		radar invisibility, but you could still see the ship through a haze.
		The ship was still visible, but not in the normal sense of visibility.
		It was shrouded, if you will.
		And all of a sudden, there was a blue flash, and the ship disappeared, waterline and all, and there was no ship in the harbor.
		It was gone.
		And I don't mean visibly gone.
		It was physically gone.
		It was gone for about four hours.
		And then four hours approximately, the ship suddenly reappeared in the harbor.
		Needless to say, Von Neumann and everybody was panicked when this happened.
		And there was no way to raise anyone on the radio.
		There was absolutely no radio connection.
		The ship reappeared.
		And they immediately observed from the observing carrier, the principal observer ship, that there was something wrong.
		Part of the antenna mast, special one, was gone.
		There was some superficial damage on the deck of the ship.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I can't stand it now.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Where did the ship go?
al bielek ▲ ● ▼		I'll get to that.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay.
al bielek ▲ ● ▼		And there was some visible crew running around like crazy, and nobody responded on the radio.
		So they had a special launch collar with a boarding crew.
		When they boarded the ship, they found out much more about what happened.
		They found two men buried in the steel deck.
		Two men were buried upright in the steel bulkhead.
		The fifth man had his hand buried in the steel bulkhead.
		He lived.
		He's the only one of the five that lived.
		They cut his hand off and gave him an artificial hand later.
		And absolute pandemonium when they found this.
		And those who were still on deck were insane and totally out of it.
		And we do mean insane.
		And those below deck were perfectly all right because they were shielded by the steel.
		One man developed a problem of intermittent and uncontrolled invisibility, but probably due to flux leakage due to the saturating of the steel.
		In any case, special crew was put on board.
		The ship was brought back to Darkside of the Philadelphia Navy Yard, and there are four days of inquiry and hearing what happened.
		So I made my report.
		I was there.
		Duncan was not.
		He was among those who were missing.
		And nobody believed my report.
		Van Norman didn't believe it.
		But in any case, he told me, I'll talk with you later.
		They opted for one more test, like the first test in 1940 that was successful.
		After replacing the damaged equipment, it would be in the outer harbor of Philadelphia late at night, sometime late October, 100 hours, 2,200 hours at night, and run it on long cables, like 1,000 feet of cable to the adjacent ship to control it.
		After the ship was on station, removed the personnel, control the equipment for a remote cable, which they did, and the ship disappeared, came back about 15, 20 minutes later.
		Equipment in the hold was a smoking rune, and some of it was missing.
		So at that point, the Navy washed their hands of the whole project.
		So we're scrapping it.
		Put the normal equipment on board the Eldridge, re-outfitted for war service.
		That was done in Silver War Service during 44 and 45, sometime in 1946.
		We put in mothballs and remained there until 1951, I think it was, 51 or 2, when it was turned over to the Greek Navy as part of the group that was ships turned over to the Greek Navy by President Truman.
		It was renamed Leon, and believe it or not, that ship is still in service in the Greek Navy today.
		We've had feedback on that in the last two months.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's an astounding story.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So now, if I can.
al bielek ▲ ● ▼		What happened?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's right.
		What happened?
		You were on board.
		Where did that ship go?
al bielek ▲ ● ▼		What happened to us, that is Duncan and I?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
al bielek ▲ ● ▼		In the first 30 seconds, everything appeared to be normal after the equipment was operational.
		Then we noticed strange waverings in the tubes, and then some strange electrical arcing started to take place in the control room.
		This was totally unprecedented because there was no high voltage right there and that we could induce such arc over.
		But nevertheless, it happened.
		It was continuing.
		We tried to raise somebody on the radio because another change in the interim was they put a direct link to the radio transmitter and the receiver in our control room rather than going through a remote signaling system and a remote link, a radio tower, so to speak.
		And we'd raised no one, couldn't hear anyone, so we were on our own.
		We decided at that point, well, this equipment's going A wire.
		This is not according to plan.
		We better shut it down.
		Went to the main control handles for the main AC power to the equipment, and we yanked on them and grabbed down them, tried to force them, they wouldn't budge.
		We could not break our connection.
		Conditions continued to get worse in the control room, so we decided, let's get out of here, opened the bulkhead door, ran out on deck.
		So a sailor was milling around very severely.
		No one was buried in the deck at that time.
		And we've got the bright idea, well, let's jump overboard and swim ashore.
		We were both good swimmers.
		So we did jump overboard.
		Now, I must state that at that point, we could see nothing beyond the railing of the ship.
		It was just a gray fog, if you will, a gray something.
		We didn't know what it was, but we couldn't see anything beyond the ship.
		The ship was still quite visible of itself, though there was a haze running around on the ship.
		We jumped overboard.
		We never hit the water.
		Decided we didn't know what was happening, but we started to fall, fall, and fall through what appeared to be, or felt like, a tunnel of some kind, and all kinds of strange flashing lights.
		And eventually, we wound up standing on our feet on dry land.
		Quite a change from the expected water landing.
unidentified		I should say.
al bielek ▲ ● ▼		On dry land at night, on the inside perimeter of a military base, there's a chainlink fence immediately to our back.
		And suddenly there was a bright searchlight beaming down on us from what was obviously a helicopter overhead.
		We didn't know what a helicopter was because in 1943 there were still play toys, things which Sikorsky was working on, selling a few to the military, but they certainly were not a mainstay at that period.
		Today they are a mainstay of the military.
		So here we were spotlighted by a searchlight and MPs came out of nowheres.
		This is where the story deviates from the movie.
		They grabbed us immediately, took us through a building.
		In the building we went on an elevator.
		It took us down several levels.
		Elevator doors opened.
		We saw a lot of military personnel running around and an elderly civilian came forward and greeted us and said to us, I've been expecting you, gentlemen.
		I am Dr. John Van Neumann.
		He looked at him and said, you're who?
		And I said, I'm Dr. Van Neumann.
		I said, you can't be.
		We left him about an hour ago.
		He's a much younger man.
		He said, no, I'm sorry, gentlemen.
		You're no longer in 1943.
		I'm 40 years older.
		This is 1983, and you're at Montauk, Long Island, part of the Phoenix Project.
		Well, we thought he was nuts.
unidentified		Wow.
al bielek ▲ ● ▼		However, he gave us the grand tour of the underground base.
		We saw computers which did not exist in 1943, graphic displays, large screen color TV, and other electronic apparatus totally beyond anything we knew of in 1943.
		So we were not only impressed, we were thoroughly distraught.
		Finally, we sat down and watched TV for a few hours.
		As we found out later, we arrived at about 2 a.m. in the morning on the 12th of August, 1983 on Montauk, Long Island.
		The base was at the extreme eastern end of Long Island on what is known as the Montauk Air Force Station, long since abandoned, but in 1983 it was still operational in terms of this project.
		So we watched color TV, which of course didn't exist in 1943.
		And when you see ads for 747 jet aircraft and men on the moon and discussions about the moon landings and the Cold War with Russia and a few other things, we knew something was terribly wrong.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Holy mackerel, Al.
al bielek ▲ ● ▼		And a few shots of modern freeways and traffic jams and that sort of thing.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That could be psychologically.
unidentified		It was devastating.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Devastating is a good word.
		Al, hold on.
		We're going into another break.
		What an amazing story.
		What a turn.
unidentified		Thank you.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Stay right there, Al.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		What an incredible story.
unidentified		This is CBC.
unidentified		See you next week.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		The new year is clearly here, and a lot of you, I hope, have made a resolution to try and do better this year.
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unidentified		Now back to the best of Art Bell.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Good morning, everybody.
		An absolutely amazing story.
		Al Bielick is my guest.
		The discussion surrounding the Philadelphia experiment.
		And Al, we're going into a series of small breaks now, so we'll have to capsulize this.
		And I promise I'll get to these phone lines, which are all full towards the bottom of the allergy.
		Al, here you are.
		You jumped off the ship.
		You're on dry land, greeted by a helicopter with a spotlight, and you're on a military base, and you're in 1983.
al bielek ▲ ● ▼		Correct.
		We didn't believe it at first, but after watching everything, seeing the evidence, we actually went up during the daylight hours up above the ground on the base.
		They did not let us off the base, but we did have a look around.
		It was a very large military base, and it's still there, though defunct at the present time.
		And defunct in terms of the surface buildings.
		That's another long story on the Montauk project.
		But in any case, finally Van Neumann told us, he says, well, gentlemen, perhaps you're convinced now.
		I said, and now we'll have to tell you the rest of the story.
		He says, I've known the whole story for some time.
		I've had it in my record.
		He said, you will go back.
		We have to send you back to the Eldridge so that you can smash the equipment and shut it off.
		He says, we can't control it from here.
		It's still running.
		The ship disappeared into hyperspace and into a hyperspace bubble, which is a mathematical artificial reality.
		And it's sustained by the fields generated by the equipment on board the ship.
		And so there's enough fuel there to keep it running for 30 days if something doesn't break down.
		The problem is that this hyperspace bubble is growing, and we don't know what it's going to encompass, how large it may get.
		It could engulf the entire Earth.
		Now, if you remember from the movie, there was an allusion to this about as the movie that put up the experiment released in 84 of this growing huge storm and the energy is growing.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, yes, yes, yes, Al.
		I've got it on tape.
		I'm going to go right home this morning and watch it.
al bielek ▲ ● ▼		And they said, you've got to go back and destroy the equipment on the Eldritch so we can return to the harbor in 43.
		And I said, well, that's great.
		Just how are we supposed to do that?
		He says, we'll send you back.
		And I said, I guess, how are you going to do that?
		He says, well, we have complete control over space and time here on this project.
		We can send you any radio we want.
		So we scratched our heads again.
		We didn't believe them, but they did send us back to the decks of the Eldritch.
		And the Montauk project is another long story of itself.
		They did indeed have control of space and time, and that is another long total story.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, then we obviously have time travel.
al bielek ▲ ● ▼		We've had it since 1945.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Good heavens.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And not just time travel, but apparently simultaneously through space as well.
al bielek ▲ ● ▼		Yes, now that's a much later development.
		That was the Montauk project in the 60s and the 70s.
		Actually, it didn't come online with that equipment until 76, 77.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		What I'm saying is that actually occurred with the Philadelphia experiment because that ship moved not just in time, but in space.
al bielek ▲ ● ▼		Correct.
		That was not intended.
		It was an accident, so to speak.
		The two experiments locked up, and he knew it.
		So he sent us back so we could smash the equipment.
		So we're back on the deck of the average.
		We're going to the control room.
		We find axes and we start smashing everything in sight.
		And eventually, we had enough equipment.
		The lines cut and equipment smashed, mostly the 6062s and some auxiliary electronic equipment.
		The main generator started to wind down.
		And at that point, we knew the thing was over.
		So we went back out on deck.
		And then, of course, at that point, we saw the bodies buried in the steel.
		However, we still couldn't see the harbor.
		And one of the things that turned up was a younger brother by the name of Jim, who was six years younger than Duncan and myself, had enlisted in the Navy after the war started, wound up volunteering for that special test crew and wound up in the second test.
		And he was dying in the bulkhead.
		His head and shoulders were out of the steel.
		He was crying.
		I went over and put my arm around.
		And of course, he died that way.
		And Duncan took one look at this mess and looked at me and jumped overboard and disappeared.
		He wound up back in the Montauk project, probably in 1983.
		Records indicate that we've found since that it was in 1983.
		He arrived.
		And that's another long story, but I will go back to what happened so far as the ship is concerned.
		After Duncan jumped overboard, the fields collapsed.
		It took about two minutes because they had been building up for many, many hours exactly how long in hyperspace you can't stay, but in terms of time at Philadelphia, it was four hours.
		So they collapsed.
		We saw the normal harbor.
		The ship was seen to return, and of course they sent the launch out and so forth.
		And I remained with the ship.
		I made my report.
		I told them what happened, where I went.
		Nobody believed me.
		Norman later took me aside and said, I don't know whether to believe you or not.
		He says, we're going to find out.
		So he built a time machine there at the Institute, a small but workable one.
		And the technology for that was very little different than what we were dealing with in terms of the invisibility experiment.
		So he said, you're going back to 83 and you're going to get proof and bring it back to me to prove that you were there and that I was there.
unidentified		Oh, he did.
al bielek ▲ ● ▼		He sent me more than once, and I came back with proof that he accepted.
		So no more of that experiment.
		And of course, he was satisfied.
		It went into a report somewheres.
		And of course, October of 43, after that part was over, he was part of the atomic bomb project of Los Alamos.
		He made his first trip up there in late October.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I guess we could conclude, then, that the technology from 83 has continued.
		Surely that's not something they've dropped.
		So they have that and much more capability now.
al bielek ▲ ● ▼		Yes, and furthermore, the project was scuttled by the Navy in 1943 was resurrected in 1947 when they asked Dr. Van Neumann to resurrect the project and see if he could salvage anything from it and find out what really went wrong.
		In 1946, of course, he was involved in the race with the British on building the first all-electronic digital computer, and he won the race, despite what BBC says.
		And the first computer was completed in 1952.
		The first working model is today in the Smithsonian, and there's a documentary on that.
		But in any case, the first one was completed, and he built a new system at the Navy, having solved the problem.
		In 1953, they had a new test on another ship, and there was no personal side effects, which declared a success finally.
		And of course, they reclassified the project again and put it under the code name Project Phoenix.
preston nichols ▲ ● ▼		All right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		An obvious question now.
		If we have this capability now, invisibility, why are we building stealth aircraft?
		Why are we putting special skins on aircraft in corners that are non-reflective of radar and that sort of thing?
		If we have technology that will do that, or is it still to the degree that you could not fit it, for example, reasonably on an airplane?
al bielek ▲ ● ▼		No, they've launched and solved that problem.
		Fit it for aircraft.
		It's used on the B-1 bomber, the B-2, which is a stealth bomber.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You're saying this technology is being used for stealth bomber?
al bielek ▲ ● ▼		Yes, that's on all Navy fighter aircraft.
		It was an Israeli fighter aircraft.
		The SR-71.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Holy.
al bielek ▲ ● ▼		All of the large Navy.
preston nichols ▲ ● ▼		Hold on.
unidentified		Stay tuned for more vintage Art Bell on this encore presentation of Coast to Coast AM.
		Coming up after the news on this, the absolute best of Art Bell.
		This is the CBC Radio Network.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Surveys say it's working just fine.
		Thank you very much.
		I'm Arthell, and I do a different kind of talk radio.
		Not the standard cookie cutter talk radio you can hear anywhere, anytime, but stimulating, interesting, even bizarre talk radio at times.
		I'll tell you what, you want to take a listen?
unidentified		This week, on Dreamland, Richard Newt, author of 5-5-2000 ICE, The Ultimate Disaster, Don't Miss It, examines two questions that demand a burden.
		Is there life after death?
		And are we alone in the universe?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I'm Art Bell.
unidentified		The program is Greenland.
		The program is Greenland.
		Are you aware of the fact that regular guys and gals are taking over the world?
		It's true!
		Every day of the week, a bunch of regular common-sense Americans are plotting to return to America.
		Those time-honored values and ethics that seem to be lost.
preston nichols ▲ ● ▼		Listen to me, Roger Freddenberg Radio's regular guys.
unidentified		You've got a friend in me.
		You've got a friend in me.
		When you roll the rough head in your miles and miles to your nice warm bed.
		Last year, 23 medical schools added classes in alternative medicine to their curriculum.
		Alternative medicine has been our topic here on Here's to Your Health for the past 15 years on air.
		Hi, I'm Deborah Ray of Here's to Your Health, inviting you to join the cutting-edge experts in alternative health care each weekday morning and again on Sunday afternoons.
		Tune in to the leader for healthcare information.
		Here's to your health.
		Good health.
		It's as close as your radio.
		Lose 10 pounds, panel the recrimination.
		Hey, Rich, what's all this about?
		Oh, yeah.
		My list of New Year's resolutions.
		All right, well, let's have a look here so I can remind you when you fall short.
		All right, let's see.
		Buy a new mountain bike.
		Yeah, great.
		Take a night school course.
		Very ambitious.
		Don't mail in my federal income tax return.
		Whoa, let's talk about that one, Rich.
		You know, I'd hate to see you get in trouble.
		Relax, Eddie.
		I'm going to file my taxes.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I'm just not going to mail them in.
		Ever heard of Telephile?
		It's a terrific service from the IRS.
unidentified		It lets you file by phone.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Only takes 10 minutes.
unidentified		Yeah, so what's the catch?
		No catch.
		No forms, no stamps, no mail.
		Just punch in your numbers and your taxes are filed.
		So what happens to your refunds?
		Telephile works faster than paper.
		I can get my refund in about three weeks.
		Three weeks?
		Yeah, that'll be me riding my new bike to night school.
		Watch your mail for a telephile booklet.
		If you qualify, file by phone.
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		For the National Heart, Lung, and Blood Institute, I'm Bob Whitten.
		You are listening to the best of Art Bell.
		From the Kingdom of Nye, Coast to Coast A.M. continues with Art Bell.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Miss Buelick, are you there?
		Yes.
		I would like to get the audience involved, if you wouldn't mind.
al bielek ▲ ● ▼		Okay, I'll just finish that statement.
al bielek ▲ ● ▼		Yes, that's a large supercarriers have the ability, and it's even today down to a personnel size, individual backpack, belt pack, if you will, where an individual can become invisible.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, that's a disturbing thought.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		For the rest of us, visible folk.
al bielek ▲ ● ▼		And as a reality.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, we'll continue the discussion now, but let me get a little bit of some of the audience in on this.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Line one, you're on the air with Al Belick.
unidentified		I am.
		I was listening.
		Excuse my ignorance of physics, but I thought most of it, some of it just went over my head.
		Many people, I'm sure, have the synthesis.
		Is there a way to succinctly describe how you made the ship invisible?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, he did that.
		You mean for the layman?
		All right, that's a good question, sir.
		Thank you.
		Al, to the layman, how would you describe this?
al bielek ▲ ● ▼		Describe it as a special combination of electric and magnetic fields rotating, which because of the choice of frequency, which was mathematically correct, it interacts with the gravity field.
		And what it does in that case, you then, according to the unified field theory, which has been completed, and the government does have it since 1938, we interacts with the time field.
		Now, that gets into a long story, but I will state it very simply by saying you start to phase the ship out of our time reference, and you phase it out far enough, the ship is still physically here in our reality, but what happens is the fields act in a manner so that energy is no longer reflected from that object.
		Now, if you don't have a reflection, whether it be light or radar, you have no image.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So, in a sense, in the first part of the experiment anyway, the ship actually was not invisible.
		It simply was enveloped in a field that created, either to radar or to visual frequencies, the appearance of invisibility.
		Is that about right?
al bielek ▲ ● ▼		That's correct.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And then in the later stages of the experiment, something radically different occurred in which space and time were shifted.
al bielek ▲ ● ▼		That's right.
		That was not intended.
		It was not part of the original experiment I set up.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Holy smokes.
		Out of state, you're on the air in Las Vegas with Al Bielick.
		Where are you calling from, please?
unidentified		I'm calling from Little Rock, California.
		Okay, go ahead.
		I'm going to have a really hard time believing this.
		How come we don't own the world already, then, if we have this kind of technology?
		All right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That is actually, that's a very good question, Mr. Bielick.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		With this kind of technology that you say now is down to the point of A backpack and an individual becoming invisible, we ought to more or less own the world.
al bielek ▲ ● ▼		Well, that depends upon who you consider as owning it, because you then get into a political arena involving who is really running the show in terms of a super-secret government who manipulated much of this technology, at least in the later phases.
		They did not in terms of the Philadelphia experiment, because that was a homegrown experiment involving the Institute of Fantastic in the Navy.
		But then it got into the phases after 1947.
		You then start running into political considerations, the UFO problem, a group called MJ-12, and the secret government.
		And the secret government is determined to have a one-world government, the so-called New World Order, which I'm sure everybody's heard the term, promulgated by abortion company.
		And this is the real gust of it.
		The secret government, they have control of all of this technology.
		We no longer, as a nation, really control all of that technology.
		We no longer, as a nation, have the kind of authority and position we once had.
unidentified		All right, Coley?
		Yeah, I, you know, like I said, I have a hard time, you know, accepting the story.
		You know, accepting that this is real.
		But, you know, I had a strange experience when I was a young child once that, you know, I can't explain myself.
		And it was very real to me.
		And, you know, it has me thinking, you know, this guy could be telling the truth, but it's so hard to believe.
		I agree.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Thank you.
		Al, how do you deal with that?
		I mean, do you find that people generally laugh you off, discard what you're saying, or do most people buy it?
		Or how do you deal with the incredible aspects of this story?
		I mean, it is incredible.
unidentified		This beats most UFO stories I've heard.
al bielek ▲ ● ▼		Well, I think you could say that in many respects it does.
		Now, the problem here is that, yes, there are a lot of people who have never heard the story before.
		They have not read any of the material that's been in the open literature since 1955 dealing with the Philadelphia experiment.
		There's much additional material I can give you on this, but nevertheless, the movie was made in 1984.
		It was released telling basically the story, but a lot of Hollywood fill-in with a love story in the interest of running around Nevada colours.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		They can't make movies without love scenes.
al bielek ▲ ● ▼		Right.
		None of that never occurred.
		The beginning and the ending are not.
		The ending is nearly accurate.
		In any case, there is a problem there.
		If you have not been exposed to this, yeah, how can this possibly be?
		I agree with the gentleman.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		To be hit with this all at once.
al bielek ▲ ● ▼		There's skepticism, but through your research, eventually you'll find enough information that you'll probably agree that it happened because there is information available in spite of government suppression.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Line two, you're on the air with Al Bielick in Phoenix Science.
unidentified		Good morning.
		Good morning.
		There's a lot of questions, of course.
		It's kind of hard to answer.
		Do you have what you said in a book?
al bielek ▲ ● ▼		I'm sorry, what was that?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, do you have what you, this story that you've just told us, have you written a book about it, Al?
al bielek ▲ ● ▼		Yes, as a matter of fact.
unidentified		What's the name of it?
al bielek ▲ ● ▼		I'm a great author with Brad Steiger in the book entitled The Philadelphia Experiment and Other UFO Conspiracies.
unidentified		Okay.
al bielek ▲ ● ▼		When you go into the aspects in the 80s, there's more to it than just the Philadelphia Experiment.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I'm sure there is.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Who publishes that, Al?
al bielek ▲ ● ▼		That's published by, let me think that this hour of the morning, my finger isn't working 100%.
unidentified		Would there be more than one book with that title?
al bielek ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
		That book was published and released in 1990.
		Inner Light Publications of the publisher.
unidentified		Interlight?
al bielek ▲ ● ▼		Inner Light.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Inner Light.
unidentified		Okay.
unidentified		And another question, is Dr. Von Neumann still alive?
al bielek ▲ ● ▼		Yes, he is.
al bielek ▲ ● ▼		He did not die in 1957, as a public record states.
unidentified		Okay, another thing is, if this is made into a weapon, would you say, I mean, if we had that much gone that far and it was in America, how did it get away from us?
al bielek ▲ ● ▼		It didn't get away from us in terms of the invisibility.
al bielek ▲ ● ▼		We have shared it with others.
unidentified		Well, are you saying then that some of the world leaders must all be in on it and they have gone and seen the future, therefore this is why they're so, you know, intent on making it one world because they feel that they have to or there won't be peace and people will be...
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And I'm going to wrap, thank you for the call.
		I'm going to wrap into that question a little bit.
		Al, is it possible to change what occurs in time?
al bielek ▲ ● ▼		Yes and no.
		Yes, you can if you know what you're doing, but the point is they are more concerned with altering the present by looking at the future in order to make the future come out the way the current ruling elite want it to come out.
		Changing the past is more difficult.
		It can be done, but it's very difficult, and you get into problems of quantum mechanics and quantum physics.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I guess what I'm asking really is these world leaders that are, according to you and others, in concert heading us toward a one world government, is there an inevitability about it in that it's going to happen whether we like it or not, or can we change it between now and whenever it coalesces?
al bielek ▲ ● ▼		It can be changed.
		There's no such thing as it being cast in stone.
		They would like to see to the fact that it would become inevitable from their point of view.
		That's why they're trying to change time and events by looking in the future.
		There is a project called the Project Looking Glass, which is a view into the future.
		There are other more complex machines today built from the 70s onward where they can travel in time as well as look in time.
		They have some, shall we say, some restrictions on that in terms of the future.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, Al.
		Out of state, you're on the air in Las Vegas with Al Belick.
		Where are you calling from, please?
unidentified		I'm calling from Alaska.
		Alaska, all right.
		I believe you're absolutely correct about who did the experiment, the New World Order, the standardized combatants that took over our gold standard back in 1913.
		All right, I'm sure you're absolutely right.
		I'm the guy that predicts earthquakes, and we're going to have some in September.
		Okay.
		All right.
		Any questions, Jeff?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Any questions from Mr. Bielet?
unidentified		Oh, yeah, questions.
unidentified		Gosh, I don't know how you're going to be able to prove to anybody to tell the truth, but I don't really have a question.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Good luck.
unidentified		Thank you.
al bielek ▲ ● ▼		Well, I can then then directly answer his question.
		Proof today of this is very difficult.
		The proof was almost in my hand several times, but let's say the government moved faster and got there first.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, they have lots of resources, Al.
al bielek ▲ ● ▼		They have vast resources, believe me.
unidentified		All right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Line three, you're on the air with Al Belick.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Good morning.
unidentified		Yes.
		Hi, Art and Al.
		Al, I'd like to know if you're related to the Dr. Cameron in Canada that was working with the CIA in mind control experiments.
al bielek ▲ ● ▼		Not that I know of.
		The family name is the same.
		Of course, I didn't tell the story of how I became Al Bielick, but nevertheless, I am fully aware of the Cameron story in Canada and MK Altra and the whole CIA project up there.
		And believe me, when I visited Montreal to give a series of lectures about years ago, I asked this question of my host if they heard of or knew of the Dr. Cameron.
		He says, oh, yes, we all know about him up here.
		And the Canadians were not pleased when they found out what was going on.
		Yes, they do know.
		As far as I know, he's not directly related.
unidentified		Okay, because his father was a Duncan Cameron, and he graduated from Glasgow.
		I thought you might be related.
		But did you say your brother, was he involved with the sodomy project, that Montuk project?
al bielek ▲ ● ▼		I'm sorry, what was that again?
unidentified		Your brother, was he involved with abducted boys who were, you know, the sodomy project, the Montuk project?
al bielek ▲ ● ▼		Yes, he was involved with the Montauk project.
		I was also, but I was Al Belik.
		And we were both involved, as well as some other people, including Preston Nichols.
		Duncan was heavily involved with the Montauk project, that's true, but that is Duncan in the new body.
		That's another aspect of the story that's hard to go into, but he died in the project in the 83, and he was born into, shall we say, put into another body back in 1963, which had been born in 1951.
		To know metaphysics, it's hard to believe and accept, but nevertheless, the groups working with the government are very capable of, shall we say, shoving souls around and putting them anywhere as they want.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Where are you calling from, Matt?
unidentified		Partler City.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay, any other questions?
unidentified		That's fine.
unidentified		Thanks for doing that.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Thank you very much, and good morning.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Luce, yes, you're beginning to get a bit metaphysical on us now, Al, but I'm sure it all winds together.
al bielek ▲ ● ▼		It all locks together, but I'll try to keep it to hard science and things which are directly observable.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, out of state, you're on the air with Al Buelick in Phoenix.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Where are you calling from, please?
unidentified		Coming from Alaska.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		From Alaska again, all right.
unidentified		Okay.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Go ahead.
		Oh, turn your radio off, sir.
		That's number one.
unidentified		Turn your map.
unidentified		Turn your radio off.
al bielek ▲ ● ▼		Your caller is weak on the line.
unidentified		I really have a question here.
		I hear these loose terms such as quantum mechanics and such and such.
		And if he's anywhere near familiar with quantum mechanics, he'll understand that any one event can set out the chain reaction of many other events in ever-expanding cone down a timeline.
		This is as dictated by Stephen W. Hawking, one of the world's leading physicists, who's claimed that we have not got a grand unified theory yet.
		My question is, how is he going to prove this?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, thank you.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's a good question.
al bielek ▲ ● ▼		I read up the name Hawkins.
al bielek ▲ ● ▼		I have one of his books.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Right, I've read it as well.
		How are you going to endeavor to prove what you're saying?
		Or even any portion of it now?
al bielek ▲ ● ▼		Well, that's not easy.
		Quantum physics does make certain statements, and then when the Navy engaged in certain experiments in 1973, which when I was given in the way of information, they wanted to go back in time and assassinate the man who was the father of the person they knew would be the new leader of the New World Order.
		They assumed by assassinating the father before he married that the son alive today would disappear.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Right.
al bielek ▲ ● ▼		They went back in the past, assassinated the man, and the son didn't disappear.
		Nothing happened to him.
		So they squatched their heads and they went to the physicist and said, aha, quantum physics, quantum mechanics, and time is quantized as well as the physical universe.
		Therefore, you only affect the events in the area where you were.
		You do not affect the entire time stream into the future.
		Now, that is what their statement was.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You create a temporary disturbance only.
al bielek ▲ ● ▼		Disruption, but not a complete disruption.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And it kind of folds back into its original line.
al bielek ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
		But that's not entirely true because what they were using was a time machine which was operating on a single line reality only.
		Montauk was capable of encompassing all the alternate realities.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, my.
		Let's keep moving here.
		A lot of people want to talk to you.
		Al, out of state, you're on the air without Belick and Phoenix.
		Where are you calling from, please?
preston nichols ▲ ● ▼		Hello.
unidentified		Yes, I'm calling from Medford, Oregon.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Medford, Oregon, all right?
unidentified		Yes, let's see.
unidentified		The first question I had was, let's see, back in the story there, the first, one of the things that he said was about Pearl Harbor's attack on the United States and that he was notified and pulled out before that attack.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		They got him out, yes.
al bielek ▲ ● ▼		Right.
unidentified		Why was there no, I mean, what about everybody else that was there?
unidentified		I just wonder why, you know, it just seems kind of unbelievable.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		No, that's a good question.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Al, if they actually had enough knowledge to get you and your cohorts out, why not prepare for the Japanese attack and be ready?
al bielek ▲ ● ▼		Because there was a complete set-up order by Roosevelt to have an attack on the United States in order to get us into the war.
al bielek ▲ ● ▼		That's the bottom line.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I've heard that one before.
unidentified		I know I have.
al bielek ▲ ● ▼		There's plenty of evidence after the war was over when they started investigating the wreckage.
		News published openly in the papers.
		All right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I'm afraid we have to break here, folks.
		CBC radio network.
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		And boy, do we have it on sale?
		If your Gingrich had been using digital either as a cordless or cellular, he wouldn't be in all the big jam he's in right now.
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		Nobody.
		Not a soul.
		Try, I mean, get your own phone and listen on a scanner.
		It's up at 900 and I think between 10 and 20 megahertz in that area, way up above cellular.
preston nichols ▲ ● ▼		You can't hear a thing.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Nothing.
		A little rise in the noise level, or what seems to be the white noise level.
		That's all.
		Totally indecipherable.
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unidentified		And now back to the best of Art Bell.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Let us keep moving if we can.
		Good morning, Line 1.
		You're on the air with Al Belick and Phoenix.
unidentified		Yes, good morning.
		Very interesting.
		I hope your guests can hear me.
		Three quick questions.
		Just a few weeks ago, a young colleague of Edward Tellers, who Lawrence Livermore Labs, said this story was bunk.
		Should I disbelieve him in the future about anything else?
		Two, you're right, they do have some Neumann that's dead in 1957, if these wife might be about 90.
		Why did they have him dead?
		And are there other people you could say that they also had dead who were still alive?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, you better slow down here, and we better get some answers.
unidentified		Let me get to the chase here.
		What kind of models did you use for this?
		And what is to keep a contemporary electromagnetic bus from making his own model at zone?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, stay on the line, please.
unidentified		Al?
unidentified		Okay.
al bielek ▲ ● ▼		You spoke with a colleague to tell us who said the story was bunk?
unidentified		I didn't speak with him.
unidentified		He said he has a radio program of his own.
al bielek ▲ ● ▼		Okay.
		Well, then also we had a chorus there of a number of other scientists who also consider it bunk, H. Stanton Friedman, Bruce McAbee, etc.
		They are all part of the government disinformation team because they don't want the facts out.
		The government still denies to this day that that experiment ever took place.
		But if that's the case, then I'll ask you a question.
		Why have they made it under the revised federal felony laws of 1987, a felony espionage laws, a felony offense to talk about either the Philadelphia experiment or the elderage on a Navy base?
		If there is nothing to it, why is it a felony offense to talk about it on a Navy base?
unidentified		Or how about this?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		If it's a felony offense to talk about it, how come you're free?
al bielek ▲ ● ▼		Well, I haven't talked about it on a Navy base, number one.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, on a Navy base, I think.
al bielek ▲ ● ▼		A Navy base, correct.
unidentified		Well, that's a good question.
al bielek ▲ ● ▼		Off-base.
al bielek ▲ ● ▼		Number two, what is the modeling for this?
unidentified		Van Neumann's death in 57.
al bielek ▲ ● ▼		Okay, Van Neumann was dying of cancer, and they pulled him out, cured him of the cancer, put him under what is well known as the Federal Protected Witnesses Program, gave him a new identity, and had him continue.
		He had to be alive and kept alive at least until 1983 because of the involvement with the Montauk Project on the 12th of August 83.
		And he is still alive today.
		I've met with him.
		We've gone out to dinner.
		He unfortunately now has a problem with a split personality, and he's not very often in his right mind.
		And I think that is probably induced by the government for the sake of covering up.
		There are other people who have done this too, also.
		I don't know if you're familiar with the story of a Dr. Frederick Tripers, who was brought over to the United States as Project Paperclip in 1946-47.
		He also had a fake funeral in 1962 on Lincoln's birthday.
		I know his daughter very well, and she told me a rather interesting story.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		We're being pressed by the top of the hour here.
unidentified		Call her your face.
al bielek ▲ ● ▼		There are others of a distinct nature.
		The government does this at their convenience for whatever reason.
		So far as proof is concerned, that's quite difficult.
		The model of this thing is highly mathematical, involves going back into history of people who developed the mathematics for it, Dr. Norman Levinson.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, Al, we're now on the news.
		Can you stay another hour?
		All right, stay right there.
		Al Belick, my guest.
		We'll be back.
unidentified		Stay tuned for more of the best of Art Bell.
		You've got tax questions.
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		Just call 1-800-829-4477.
		That's 1-800-829-4477 for Teletax.
		At the IRS, we want to help.
		In fact, that's why we're here.
		In the next 60 seconds, I'm going to do something terrible to anyone who's ever wanted to play the piano.
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		Things were really cooking at the Safety Belt Steaker.
		That's my rare.
		When we pinched him.
		Ouch!
ron jenkins ▲ ● ▼		Betty gives us a ticket.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's right, and don't call me Betty.
unidentified		But we never wear safety belts.
ron jenkins ▲ ● ▼		See, we're dummies.
unidentified		Then here's something even you can understand.
ron jenkins ▲ ● ▼		For a good time, Carl.
unidentified		No, this.
		A ticket?
		Police are now ticketing low-life scum who don't wear safety belts, so buckle up.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Surely you can give us a break.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		No, and don't call me Shirley.
ron jenkins ▲ ● ▼		A message from the Department of Transportation and the Ad Council.
		USA Radio Network News, this is Ron Jenkins.
		Astronauts Mark Lee and Stephen Smith have wrapped up spacewalk number five for the Shuttle Discovery crew, putting a new insulating blanket around the Hubble Space Telescope and performing a couple of minor tweaking operations to finish the job.
		NASA, thanking the crew for a job well done.
preston nichols ▲ ● ▼		It's been kind of amazing because all the nominal things have gone nominal, but there have been a lot of other things to keep everybody working hard.
		And I'll also say we right now are getting a beautiful view with the elbow camera of the Hubble telescope.
		It's actually externally, I have to say, it's not quite as beautiful as we left it three years ago, but we all know that beauty is only skin deep.
ron jenkins ▲ ● ▼		Hubble will be put back in orbit tonight.
		Then the electronics will be tested and everything goes right.
		The crew will turn it loose and move away to prepare for the journey home.
		Kenda Starr, Special Whitewater Prosecutor, is leaving that post.
		He'll take over as Dean of Pepperdine University in California.
		Starr insists that does not mean the Whitewater investigation will end, but he does admit he doesn't know who's going to take over when he leaves.
unidentified		See the Special Division of the U.S. Court of Appeals that would make the decision.
unidentified		Again, we're talking about many months from now.
ron jenkins ▲ ● ▼		Starr won't start his Pepperdine job until August 1st.
		And tensions are mounting on the Korean Peninsula despite indications from North Korea that it may accept the defection of a high-ranking diplomat.
		This is USA Radio News.
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ron jenkins ▲ ● ▼		The president heads for the Big Apple on Tuesday to appear at a Democratic Party fundraiser.
ron jenkins ▲ ● ▼		USA's John Becker has details.
unidentified		The estimated $1 million that will be taken in from donors will benefit the Democratic Senatorial Campaign Committee.
		In the face of House and Senate investigations into campaign fundraising, a White House spokesman said Tuesday's event is entirely within the limits of the law.
		Meanwhile, Senator John McCain, a sponsor of a campaign finance reform bill, is demanding that Attorney General Janet Reno appoint an independent counsel to investigate possible Democratic fundraising improprieties.
		John Decker, USA Radio News, Washington.
ron jenkins ▲ ● ▼		An American airline spokesman says 2.5 million people called the airline switchboards Monday, hoping to take advantage of an airfare war.
		America slatched its prices by as much as half after President Clinton intervened early Saturday to stop a strike by American pilots.
		Four major airlines joined in the cost-cutting move, and the war was on.
unidentified		This is USA Radio News.
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ron jenkins ▲ ● ▼		A Georgian diplomat accused of killing a 16-year-old American girl might not serve as time in this country, but rather in the Soviet Union or the former Soviet Union.
ron jenkins ▲ ● ▼		USA's Connie Lawn has more.
unidentified		The State Department is delighted that diplomatic immunity has been waived for the Georgian diplomat accused of causing the death of a 16-year-old girl in Washington.
		But the State Department appears to have worked out a compromise.
		It could allow the diplomat to serve his prison time in his native country.
		The U.S. Justice Department will first prosecute him.
		Under American law, he could receive 30 years in jail on charges of drunken driving and manslaughter.
		Coming on USA Radio News, Washington.
ron jenkins ▲ ● ▼		The celebration is on in the Netherlands for Blackjack.
		Blackjack is the latest effort by tulip growers in that country to develop a black tulip.
		They say this one is the darkest ever.
		It's been a 15-year quest.
		Ron Jenkins on the USA Radio Network.
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		Tonight, while Art Bell is resting, recovering from the cold he caught flying home from Mexico, Chancellor Broadcasting Company presents the absolute best of Art Bell.
		We take you way back to the scratchy analog days of 1993 to vintage Art Bell and his classic three-hour interview with Al Bulek, followed by two hours with Treston Nichols and the subsequent Montauk experiment.
		It's a dandy and one of Art's all-time favorite shows.
		And now, hour number three, featuring Art Bell and Al Bulick on the Philadelphia Experiment.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Line one, you're on the air with Al Bulek in Las Vegas.
unidentified		Hi.
		Yes, Mr. Bell.
		Thank you for having me on.
		I just caught this on my way home, ran home real quick to get it.
		So if this is a stupid question, it's already been asked.
		I was just kind of curious.
		And I'll hang up and take the answer on the air, on my radio.
		Did President Kennedy's death have anything to do with this?
		I'm sorry.
		Who is?
		The assassination of President Kennedy.
		Was that involved with the government, any part of this experiment, with either bringing him back or any knowledge?
		Okay, and as regards the future, is his death ever solved?
al bielek ▲ ● ▼		Is his death ever resolved?
al bielek ▲ ● ▼		Solved.
unidentified		Solved.
al bielek ▲ ● ▼		That's pretty well solved now.
al bielek ▲ ● ▼		I don't think one has to go much further into the future because enough records have been released, enough movie films have fairly well nailed it down.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Right.
		Thank you, Color.
		And to pursue this just a little bit, why would it not be possible, Al, to go back and stop the assassination?
al bielek ▲ ● ▼		That's a good question.
		Theoretically, it might be.
		I don't know if there has ever been any attempt or a desire anywhere else to make the attempt to do it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I can see that a relatively unknown person would make a relatively small ripple in time.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		But my God, President Kennedy, if you were to change that and he was not assassinated, would cause a gigantic explosion in time.
al bielek ▲ ● ▼		Yes, he would.
		It would cause an enormous upheaval because of the fact of what he was doing and the reasons why he was assassinated.
		Because he wanted to eliminate the Fed and print U.S. notes.
		He wanted the CIA to reveal the fact that they were not only in drug business, but they were also the other groups suppressing the facts about UFOs and E.T. Well, I do understand he had signed an executive order that would have had a big effect on the Fed, and that that was then reversed by Johnson.
		Yes.
		Yeah, and he also already had issued a large number of U.S. notes, which is legal tender under our Constitution.
		So he had a number of people who are out for his head, so to speak, and eventually they did get it.
		All right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		We've got to keep moving here.
		Very quickly, out of state, where are you calling from, please?
		Hello?
		No, you're not.
		Line two, you're on the air with Al Belick in Las Vegas.
unidentified		Good morning.
		Yeah, I'm pretty much on the believing side of time travel and Philadelphia experiments, stuff like that.
		I had a question.
		The time field that the modern-day time machines you're talking about would have, would there be anything to any type of equipment to be able to sense the disturbance in the time continuum when they would use it?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, that's a good question.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Is there a way to detect time travel uh in progress now?
al bielek ▲ ● ▼		In progress.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, in other words.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		To detect the presence of the field.
al bielek ▲ ● ▼		And you sense the field that somebody's playing this game.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah.
al bielek ▲ ● ▼		That I can't answer.
		I don't know.
		Theoretically, anything's possible, but I don't know of any way at this point where it could be done.
		There should be sensing means for determining when somebody is playing a game of some sort with the time field, but I don't know.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Anything else, Color?
unidentified		Yeah, on the time machines that are like modern day, do they still use like a magnetic field?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay, thank you, Color.
		Are they still using a magnetic field?
		Was the question now?
al bielek ▲ ● ▼		Main for this type of work?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
al bielek ▲ ● ▼		I can't answer what they're doing in terms of current technology, and because it's gone through many generations.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Surely the experiment with the Eldridge would have been very detectable.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		In fact, with the kind of power that you were transmitting at 160 megahertz, that alone would have been detectable for decades.
al bielek ▲ ● ▼		And then, of course, with radar equipment for that frequency only, or the receivers, they would pick it up.
al bielek ▲ ● ▼		But after the ship became radar invisible, of course, then they couldn't pick up the field anymore because it had already unfolded on itself and then the time phase shift number.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So it was gone, literally.
al bielek ▲ ● ▼		That's right.
al bielek ▲ ● ▼		The field was not detectable after a certain point.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
		Very quickly, line two, you're on the air with Al Belick in Las Vegas.
		Where are you calling from, please?
		Line two?
		No, you're not there.
		Out of state, good morning.
		You're on the air.
unidentified		Hi, Art.
al bielek ▲ ● ▼		Hello.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Where are you calling us from, sir?
		Okabukaland.
		Oh, I don't think we'll deal with that.
		Line three, you're on the air with Al Belick.
unidentified		Now, Dr. Bailick, I have a question.
unidentified		What is the name of the fundamental set of equations that govern classical electromagnetism?
al bielek ▲ ● ▼		I'm sorry to repeat the question.
unidentified		What is the name of the set of equations that govern classical electromagnetism?
al bielek ▲ ● ▼		Well, if you go into classical electromagnetism, you're going to find that there are discrepancies there, and it does not agree with some of the work that you've done.
al bielek ▲ ● ▼		I couldn't give you all of that.
unidentified		No, that's fine, because the name is Maxwell's equations, which probably any sophomore in physics now understands.
		Okay, and I find I know Max Dresden, who was John von Neumann's graduate student.
		I was with him at the University of Canberra, and he talked about being at the von Neumann funeral in 1957, sir.
al bielek ▲ ● ▼		What the funeral?
unidentified		Yeah, and I have heard Dr. Friedman, who was at the Linear Collider out at Stanford.
		I've heard him speak, and he seems like a very credible person.
		I have spoken with him just very briefly, but I've been to a couple of his lectures.
		He seems very credible.
		Thirdly, I'd like to point out something.
		It is possible to distort space-time, but you need something that has a very, very large mass, such as a black hole.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So I have to say this story, but I don't believe...
		Let him respond.
		You just said the only way to distort it was a black hole or the event horizon.
unidentified		Oh, well, so basically a large mass.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, I understand.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, Al, go ahead and answer that.
al bielek ▲ ● ▼		Well, that's in terms of current thinking and where they're admitting maybe time travel is possible in terms of classical physics as it's viewed today.
		It does not require a large mass.
		It requires manipulation of the three basic elements of our field theory.
		If you manipulate three, namely electric field, gravitic field, and tachyon field, you then manipulate the fourth, which is the time field.
		It does take power, but it does not take mass.
		Mass has nothing to do with it, and mass is a misnomer in terms of the real physics, if you ever went through it, because what they teach today in the universities in terms of electromagnetic theory and physics is largely garbage.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
		Out of state, you're on the air with Al Bielick in Phoenix.
		Good morning.
		Where are you calling from, please?
		Hello, out of state.
		Are you there?
		Somebody's got their radio on.
		Last opportunity, are you there?
		Line one, you're on the air.
unidentified		Yeah, I thought questions for your guests.
		So then the government can send someone into the future to learn anything they want, I would suppose.
		And what would the aliens think about humans having such capabilities now?
al bielek ▲ ● ▼		Well, in terms of that, they were part and parcel of the Montauk project, so that they were, in that sense, aiding and abetting the project.
		They were assisting in terms of the Montauk project, in terms of a more standardized time travel.
		That was not alien technology, that was homegrown technology here on Earth.
		The Germans, prior to the end of World War II, had functioning time machines.
		Von Neumann had one in a laboratory in 1944.
		And the work that's been done since then, after the war was over, has in part been strictly homegrown technology, that is Earth technology, and in a larger sense, there has been contributions by aliens because of the agreement and the treaty that was made in 1954 with Eisenhower.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, Color.
unidentified		Thank you.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Thank you.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Out of state, very quickly, you're on the air with Al Belig in Phoenix.
unidentified		Good morning.
		I had a question about the 3839 death ray test.
		All right.
al bielek ▲ ● ▼		Okay.
unidentified		What exactly was the extent of those tests and where those tests lead us to now?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, the death ray, Al.
al bielek ▲ ● ▼		That was tested in White Sands, New Mexico, test range 3839, according to second-hand information from witnesses who were there.
		And what happened was they had a very large laser-like device that Tesla had designed.
		It emitted a green ray according to the eyewitnesses.
		And any object it was aimed at, it was a pulse charge device with huge capacitor banks.
		It took a certain finite period of time to charge up the capacitors after firing.
		They aimed at a truck or a tank.
		They turned green and disappeared.
		Then the last test, they apparently aimed at a, they tried animals too, but they aimed at a mountaintop.
		For what I'm told, the mountaintop disappeared.
		And that was a little too much for the military people in charge of the test.
		The story is that they ordered the equipment destroyed and the notes buried.
		I find it hard to believe myself that if they had a weapon of that capability that they would bury it and destroy it.
unidentified		It was basically virtually disintegrated an object.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, thank you.
		In other words, it made things disappear.
		Actually, more than just disappear, Al.
al bielek ▲ ● ▼		Or gone permanently.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Gone permanently.
		With the earlier caller, Mr. Critic, who was on earlier, I am not a physicist, Al.
		I've got a little basic electronics, or maybe more than a little.
		I've worked in microwave, and I know a little bit about magnetism, but I don't know the equations that govern magnetism.
		Well, but he said, he said, what were they?
		Any sophomore would know in physics, and I don't know.
		So how do you answer that?
al bielek ▲ ● ▼		The question was rather ambiguous in the first place.
		Yes, you can quote Maxwell and Maxwell's equations, but the problem there is you have to go back to the original Maxwell equations as published well over 100 years ago and not the truncated version taught in the universities today, which were derived by Heaviside in 1875.
		And you also have to consider Dr. Hertz and his Hertzian ways and the theory which he expounded and the current basic theory which is taught in the universities, which is partly correct and partly incorrect.
		One of the things they teach you, which you may remember yourself from all of your work, is that the electromagnetic wave has a radio wave, and the magnetic component is propagated at the same rate as the electric field.
		That is not true.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		No, it is not true.
al bielek ▲ ● ▼		No.
		The magnetic field is propagated at a rate of 0.6 that of the electric field and a combined radio wave, which is a first-order wave electromagnetically.
		And the radio wave is propagated according to theory of the speed of light.
		Now, of course, you get into an argument there as what is the speed of light.
		It is not a constant.
		It is on the Earth in the manner in which we, the methods by which we have measured it.
		But Einstein himself denied that it was a constant, said he was misquoted, that he never said it was a constant other than on Earth on the electromagnetic field as we know it here on Earth and on the conditions in which we have measured it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, we certainly know that magnetism affects light, as evidenced by what a black hole does with light.
al bielek ▲ ● ▼		That's true.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, let's keep moving here.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Line two, you're on the air with Al Belick.
unidentified		Yes, I'd like to know the name of the man who was assassinated in 1973 to prevent the future birth, and also the name of the members of the Secret New World Order government.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, well, one at a time here.
		That's quite a tall order.
		The name of the man who was assassinated, Al.
al bielek ▲ ● ▼		In 1973?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
al bielek ▲ ● ▼		I do not have that name as to who the man was.
		Insofar as the members of the Secret World Order are concerned, I recommend that you acquire a copy of John Coleman's book entitled The Conspirators' Hierarchy of the Committee of 300.
		He lays it all out there in exact terms and names all of the people who are part of the Committee of 300, past and present.
		And it has a very interesting, concise, and informative book on the political conspiracies and how all of these organizations, like CFR, Trilateral Commission, Builder Burgers, Club of Rome, Illuminati, the wonderful little Skull and Bones organization, they all fit together.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, ma'am.
unidentified		Thank you.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Thank you.
		Let's see, do we have enough time?
		Line three, you're on the air with Al Bielick in Phoenix.
unidentified		Good morning.
unidentified		Hi, I'd like to know if the electromagnetic disturbances in the Bermuda Triangle are related to experiments such as in Philadelphia.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, that is a good question.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Where are you calling from, sir?
unidentified		New South Physical Bay Area in California.
unidentified		Okay.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		What about it, Al?
al bielek ▲ ● ▼		Answer is no.
		The disturbances in the Bermuda Triangle are still a matter of conjecture.
		When Ivan Sanderson was alive and I worked with him on that, he was of the opinion that it was a natural phenomenon because there are 12 such areas on the planet that are forming an essentially perfect geodesic grid.
		And it's part of the complete grid and ley-line system of the Earth, but these are the 12 primaries.
		The second most active one on the Earth is over in the Japan Sea, east of the islands of Japan, and they've lost some pretty big ships in there, too.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, that will have to serve as an answer, so the answer caller is no.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Thank you very much, and I'll hold on just a moment.
unidentified		This is the CBC Radio Network.
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		It is a flower farm in Southern California.
		All they grow is miniature carnations.
		Far as the eye can see, miniature carnations, and they're beautiful.
		And you get some, you know, the deal is just incredible.
		You get this big triangular box full of miniature carnations for $42.95, along with a card from you with your message and name, handwritten, very powerful, very emotional, great for anniversaries, birthdays, any kind of special event at all.
		They're available 24 hours a day.
unidentified		Try it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's FedEx, by the way.
		Next day, FedEx during the week.
		You call today.
		They deliver tomorrow.
		1-800-562-6438.
		That's 1-800-562-6438.
		Absolutely fresh flowers.
		Are you making too many trips to the bathroom?
		If you are, you know that.
		And you're not alone.
		Loss of libido, sex drive, yet another symptom.
		Well, here is a guy who can help you out, Dr. Michael Koplinski.
		Over the years in his medical practice, he's put together a kind of a soup of all natural things that he has found actually clinically affect the size of the prostate and then obviously the symptoms.
		So if you have those symptoms short of surgery, here's something you're going to want to try.
		All right?
		You buy two bottles, you get a third one, three, bruh.
		That means you are now in possession of a three-month supply for the price of two.
		What you do is try it.
		Take it for three months.
		If your symptoms are not better, you get your money back.
		It's a straightforward, ironclad deal.
		The number to call right now, 1-800-249-6060.
		It's offered by a company called Physicians Choice.
		And the number, again, 1-800-249-6060.
		Good morning, everybody.
		Welcome back to the show.
		I'm Artell.
		My guest is Al Belick.
		If you've been listening carefully, the man told you how to build something to cause something to disappear or travel in time or travel in space.
		And Al, if somebody were to take what you have described technically as an outline, the RF field, the rotating magnetic fields, and would you advise them don't try this at home?
al bielek ▲ ● ▼		I would definitely advise them don't try it at home.
		Sergei would never get it to work without certain other key elements that are involved, which are very difficult to get in the way of hardware.
		The system encompassed more than that.
		It had to have a zero-time reference generator, and that was something which Tesla himself developed in the 20s and is used today in every piece of equipment built for the FAA and a lot of other government craft.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Could you remake this?
al bielek ▲ ● ▼		I could possibly, but I don't think I would want to because the form of field that was created was incorrect.
		It was wrong.
		In other words, an open toroid.
		Though the toroid shape was closed, the field was open in the sense that anything in the middle where the effect takes place is not shielded from outside influence, and that was the problem.
		The Eldridge was not shielded from outside influence.
		If they'd used a form of a closed oblate spheroid field, I'm sorry, then the ship would have been shielded.
		And that required a lot more theory.
		And while the theory was available, the electromagnetic complications in terms of hardware were far beyond what they wanted to handle at that time.
unidentified		All right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Hold it there, Al.
		Let's go out of state.
		You're on the air with Al Belick.
		Where are you calling from, please?
unidentified		Yes, I'm calling from California.
		I would like to ask Mr. Belick, time and space fold like an accordion.
		Is this what I'm kind of understanding?
al bielek ▲ ● ▼		No, it doesn't fold like an accordion under normal usage.
		There are ways of folding it, if you will, which certain alien groups know, and apparently use that as a means of propulsion in their ships, if the stories are correct.
		But normally, it is not folded.
		You can envision it more like one of these child's toys, a helix, in which there are waves going through time.
		And normally it is a very smooth, even transition, and even transmission, but it can be disturbed.
		And there are things which will disturb it, like the lock-up of two experiments or a thermonuclear device that's large enough will break the continuity temporarily.
		Otherwise, it's a smooth transition, a smooth flow.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		An atomic explosion does create a large electromagnetic pulse, doesn't it?
al bielek ▲ ● ▼		And the thermonuclear device, the hydrogen bomb, is the one that creates the huge pulse.
al bielek ▲ ● ▼		The atomic bomb creates a small one, but not of any great significance.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, then I have a question.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Could that conceivably then, through just happenstance, a large hydrogen bomb exploding, could it create a time-space disturbance?
al bielek ▲ ● ▼		Very definitely it does, and it was tested and measured as such in Anna Waytalk in 1954.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Anything else, ma'am?
unidentified		No, you're doing a wonderful job with this.
		We're just right with you.
		Thank you.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Thank you, and thank you very much for the call.
		All right, Al, we're going to just take a very brief break here and then go raging through a lot of calls.
		A lot of people want to talk to you.
		Stay right there, Al Beelick.
		We now pause while some additional stations join the network.
		Good morning, everybody.
		This is as wild a run as you may ever hear, and it's coming from Phoenix and Al Beelick.
unidentified		We'll be right back.
		Stay tuned for more Vintage Art Bell coming up right after these messages.
		Vintage Art Bell This is CBC.
		And now, here's to Your Health News and Nutrition Update.
		The controversy over screening for prostate cancer continues to rage.
		Recently, researchers at the University of Toronto concluded that it was inadvisable to test men with no overt symptoms of prostate cancer.
		Screening for prostate cancer leads to invasive procedures, resulting in a negative effect on the quality of life.
		Screening with the PSA prostate-specific antigen blood test and the transrectal ultrasound resulted in a very small increase in life expectancy of men between 50 and 70 years of age.
		The net loss in quality of life from incontinence, impotence, and rectal injuries far outweighed the increase in life expectancy, and the dreaded digital recto examination produced no reduction at all in deaths from prostate cancer.
		A recent look at cholesterol-lowering drugs concluded that their use in patients with only mildly elevated cholesterol levels does not halt the development of atherosclerosis or hardening of the arteries in heart disease patients.
		There was no significant difference in the progression of the hardening of the arteries between the triad group and the placebo group at the end of the treatment period.
		In both groups, the diameter of the arteries scanned continued to narrow.
		The white bark of the birch tree was the recent focus of study at the pharmacy school at the University of Illinois in Chicago.
		A compound named betulinic acid was identified that demonstrated the ability to shrink human melanoma tumors in lab animals.
		The birch bark compound outperformed the most widely prescribed drug commonly used to treat this dangerous skin cancer.
		And good news for those who suffer from the greatest on-the-job hazard of modern day carpal tunnel syndrome.
		200,000 new cases are becoming reported each year.
		When the soft tissue in the wrist becomes inflamed, the pressure on the nerve results in numbness and debilitating pain in the arms and hands.
		Doctors typically recommend braces, anti-inflammatory drugs, or surgery in an attempt to relieve the pressure on the nerve.
		A recent study evaluated carpal tunnel syndrome sufferers who practiced yoga twice a week for 10 weeks.
		Slow, progressive postures and stretches which focused on neck, shoulder, and upper body flexibility and extending the range of hand motion resulted in a reduction in tenderness and swelling, less pain, and increased grip strength.
		What a reward for the money and time invested.
		And that's a news and nutrition update from Here's to Your Health.
		Good health.
		It's as close as your radio.
		This is Talk Radio Network.
		A war against alternative medicine sounds like a conspiracy.
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		Alternative medicine is shaking the money tree and conventional medicine is not happy.
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		It's your opportunity to hear how important medical freedom initiatives are to each and every one of us.
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		1-800-558-MEMORY You're listening to an encore performance of Coast to Coast A.M. with Art Bell.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Line two, are you there?
unidentified		Yes.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Where are you calling from, sir?
unidentified		Las Vegas.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, go ahead.
unidentified		I don't buy it.
		I, you know, when I was in college, I minored in physics.
		I majored in electrical engineering.
		And everything that you said is bunk.
al bielek ▲ ● ▼		Well, you're entitled to your opinions.
unidentified		No, that's not an opinion.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, what specifically, if you're going to say this sort of thing, sir, is bunk, or what can you prove to be bunk?
unidentified		Okay, your statement that Maxwell's equations, you know, are not complete.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, were you on the air earlier?
unidentified		Yes, not on the air earlier.
unidentified		Okay.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, then go on.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Your statements that Maxwell's equations were not complete.
unidentified		You know, you said that they were not complete.
		Well, I have a book here.
		It's called, you know, Engineering Electromagnetics that derives Maxwell's equations step by step, you know, going back to Coulomb's law.
		There is nothing missing there.
		And secondly, your contention that you would need...
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Do you want to answer that, Al?
unidentified		Okay.
al bielek ▲ ● ▼		Now, are you familiar with Tom Bearden?
al bielek ▲ ● ▼		Thomas A. Bearden.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Are you familiar with Mr. Bearden, Colin?
unidentified		No, but I can't really hear what the other fellows say.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I understand.
unidentified		All right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You'll have to listen on the air then.
		Thank you.
		All right, Al, go right ahead.
		What does Mr. Bearden have to do with this?
al bielek ▲ ● ▼		M. G. Bearden has gone through that also and derived the fact that the original Maxwell equations as written by Maxwell in the handwritten versions, which are well over a hundred years old, are not what is currently taught in the universities because Dr. Heaviside in 1875,
		because they were hard to understand and they could not accept the idea that in the denominator E as the electrostatic field was, and Maxwell's original equation stated that it propagates instantaneously throughout the universe, which would immediately violate all of the ideas of relativity and C being the limiting speed of everything in the universe.
		So that part has been eliminated basically from most of the college texts.
		Now you may have some texts that show the original.
		I am not familiar with every book that's around.
		But nonetheless, they normally teach the truncated version developed by Heaviside in 1875, which is an attempt to simplify those equations and make them more understandable.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
		All right.
		Well, you're over my head.
		Good morning.
		Out of state, you're on the air with Al Bielick in Phoenix.
unidentified		I need to know all I can find out about Nikola Tesla.
unidentified		I think you're one of the greatest people I've ever looked, and I really want to know all about him.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, where are you calling from, Cole?
unidentified		I called earlier from Alaska, but I did have a question.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, now, you know, one call per customer, folks.
		So I'm just going to pass that one by.
		Line three, you're on the air.
bourbon in missouri ▲ ● ▼		Hello.
unidentified		Hello.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Where are you calling from, sir?
unidentified		I'm calling from San Diego, California.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, fine.
unidentified		That's right by the border.
unidentified		And I'm not at all skeptical, but please answer these three very brief questions for me.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You were about to tell us who shot JFK and you got interrupted.
		Please tell us who shot him and why.
		All right, stop, stop.
		Who shot JFK, Al?
al bielek ▲ ● ▼		Best testimony and enhanced pictures taken, Mr. Bruder, and other films indicate that it was done by the driver.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, yes, that theory, that the driver did it, sir.
unidentified		Okay.
unidentified		Then please tell me if ex-President George Bush is a part of the New World Order.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Why did he allow himself to lose the election?
unidentified		And my third brief question is, is President Clinton now, is he part of it?
		Does he have all this information, and is he going to be successful?
		And I find it hard to believe that George Bush would allow himself to lose that power.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
unidentified		All right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Thank you.
al bielek ▲ ● ▼		Part two, namely with Mr. George Bush, he was part of the New World Order.
		He does not run it.
		He was one of the pawns and gears in the works, if you will.
		He had a great deal of power.
		He was former director of the CIA before he became president.
		And he knew a great many things, but he also was limited in his power.
		He took orders.
		He took orders from a higher authority in this country, and so does Clinton.
		Now, where Clinton is going to go with all of this is hard to say because the scenario is not determined by the President.
		It is no longer determined by the Congress or the Senate.
		They are dictated to up and down the line, and you really have to get the book, the Committee of 300, and other material to understand how this whole thing is orchestrated.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Mr. Clinton is being manipulated as well, then.
al bielek ▲ ● ▼		Yes, Clinton is being manipulated.
al bielek ▲ ● ▼		In fact, he was bought and sold, I'm sorry to say, before he became governor of the state of Arkansas.
unidentified		All right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Line one, you're on the air with Al Bilick.
		Good morning.
		Where are you calling from, please?
unidentified		We're calling from California.
		All right.
		This is a fascinating program.
		Unfortunately, we missed a good part of it.
		Is it possible to buy a tape on it?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
		We have somebody.
		In fact, after the program is over, I'll tell you how you can get a copy, all right?
unidentified		Thank you.
unidentified		All right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Thank you.
		Out of state, you're on the air with Al Bilick.
		Where are you calling from, please?
unidentified		Here in Washington.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		In Washington.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, go ahead.
unidentified		How are you doing tonight?
al bielek ▲ ● ▼		Fine.
unidentified		I laid down to go to sleep at 1 o'clock and pick the show on and last as long as I could, and I'm wide awake, let me tell you.
		I have a few questions for Al.
		First off, are you familiar with William Cooper?
al bielek ▲ ● ▼		Oh, yes.
unidentified		And do you agree with most of what he says?
unidentified		Perfect with a lot of what I've heard, you say.
al bielek ▲ ● ▼		I agree with much of what he says in terms of the political sense.
		I think his information has been basically very accurate.
		There is some dispute, of course.
		He is the one that has pushed the theory and the idea based on the films that he has shown that Mr. Greer, the driver, was the man who ultimately assassinated President Kennedy.
		There were others who fired shots.
		There's no question of that.
unidentified		I proved Cooper's ability.
		Right.
		And Greer definitely proved the trigger.
al bielek ▲ ● ▼		Right.
		Now, even if you go back to the 1963 photos published from the originals of Pruder films in Life magazine, you can clearly see, though, they're not enhanced.
		You can see that the driver had his hands off the wheel and the Secret Service man in the right seat had his hand on the wheel.
		That even shows in the originals of Pruder films published by Life magazine.
		But nevertheless, there is still some dispute as to whether or not Breer was the final and ultimate assassin.
		There were others who claimed there was somebody on the know who fired the fatal shot because there was more than one shot came in at that low angle.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, Connor, thank you.
		Al, you know, they just buried John Connolly, and there were a lot of people who wanted the fragments in Connolly's body examined.
		The family of Governor Connolly did not.
		So he apparently has been buried without examination.
		Would you urge that they exhume that body and take a look at those fragments so we might be able to settle this once and for all?
al bielek ▲ ● ▼		I think that's something that I would not feel qualified to answer in terms of whether or not you're going to find out much out from his body, because after all, if the body's buried, it deteriorates fairly rapidly.
al bielek ▲ ● ▼		The examination would have had to have been made virtually at the time of death or shortly thereafter.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		But surely the fragments will not deteriorate.
al bielek ▲ ● ▼		If there are bullet fragments, they will not.
al bielek ▲ ● ▼		That's true.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Line two, you're on the air with Al Bilick in Phoenix.
unidentified		Thank you very much.
		Apparently, the gremlins are at work.
		KQMS stopped hearing you at 3 a.m.
		Mr. Bilick, Mr. Charles Bearden.
		Are you familiar with him?
al bielek ▲ ● ▼		I'm sorry, which one?
unidentified		Charles Bearden.
bourbon in missouri ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
unidentified		It's free energy.
unidentified		Do you think that's on.
al bielek ▲ ● ▼		Free energy is a vast subject, and a number of people who have been involved in research on this, and not only from the theoretical standpoint but also from the hardware standpoint, have made various pieces of hardware work.
		More work has been done on this in Europe and Japan than in the U.S. England.
		Thomas Searle is one that has been successful.
		Dr. Saiko of Japan may have been successful, but he's very tight-lipped, if you will.
		And Thomas E. Bearden has published a considerable amount on this subject.
		There have been others like Babini.
		There's a whole host of names of people.
		Bruce D. Palmer, his end machine.
		Of course, the N machine goes back to Faraday 200 years ago for the basic principle.
		And that has been published and was published and isn't known that he developed, though he didn't understand why it worked.
		So yes, there is the free energy is a misnomer in another sense.
		There is no such thing as free lunch.
		The energy comes from somewhere else.
		The only problem is understanding where it comes from and why.
unidentified		How about T. Henler-Murray, Chief of Energy?
al bielek ▲ ● ▼		It was very successful.
unidentified		Okay.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
unidentified		Thank you very much.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Thank you, Colleen.
		You're on the air with Al Billick.
		Where are you calling from, please?
unidentified		From the Bay Area in California.
		Okay, go ahead.
		Just a quick question.
		Based on the knowledge that you now have, is the stories that we have in the Bible, are they essentially true or not true or just stories?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, the Bible.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Real or just a good story, Mr. Beelett?
al bielek ▲ ● ▼		Well, I think historically, if you were, is the listener referring to the book of Revelations or to the Older Testament?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, why don't you deal with both?
al bielek ▲ ● ▼		But turns to the Old Testament, I think you find that historically much of that information is correct.
		The problem is how far back you take it because you were missing many of the books in the Old Testament, the books of the Apocrypha and others, which are available separately, which show an additional, much older history than is otherwise recognized.
		Adam and Eve are, in my sense, allegorical.
		They were not necessarily real as being the originators of the human race on this planet.
		But in terms of the book of Revelations, I would say that much of the information in there might yet prove to be correct because whoever wrote it in terms of the paper and sense of those days had an insight and apparently had ability to see into the future.
		And they saw things in terms of warfare which have come to pass.
		And the terrible plagues which are now coming upon us in many respects, they also saw.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Line one, you're on the air with Al Buelick in Phoenix.
unidentified		Well, Arthur California.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
unidentified		Good morning, Mr. Bielick.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
unidentified		Two questions.
unidentified		First, since the U.S. government has used the transfer retrieval mechanism to clean up a MSM-73, is it also used to silence or dissuade UFO witnesses and researchers with the men in black technique?
al bielek ▲ ● ▼		Very hard to hear you.
al bielek ▲ ● ▼		Can you repeat the question?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I don't know if I can or not.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Let me...
al bielek ▲ ● ▼		Yes, I am familiar with the charges and the allegations about MIBs.
al bielek ▲ ● ▼		I've never seen one, but I do know people who have.
unidentified		All right, my second question is on the hardware itself.
		Doubtless, refinements and advances in technology have been applied to the project hardware since the 40s.
		So how long will it be until a stable tachyon drive fold generator will be in unclassified use?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, good question.
al bielek ▲ ● ▼		That's a very good question.
		I don't really know how to answer that one.
		Tachyon drive system and anti-gravity drive system, they exist, at least in terms of the anti-gravity drive systems today.
		The government has them, but in terms of being unclassified and generally available, it's very difficult to answer because who can fathom the mind of the government?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Out of the state, you're on the air with Al Bielick in Las Vegas, Lowe.
bourbon in missouri ▲ ● ▼		Hi, how are you doing today, Art?
unidentified		Fine.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Where are you calling from?
bourbon in missouri ▲ ● ▼		Oh, Dilbert, Arizona.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
unidentified		I know for a fact that pardon me if you exist because I have one of my own.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's how I got to Ugabooga land.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Line two, you're on the air with Al Bielick.
preston nichols ▲ ● ▼		Hi.
bourbon in missouri ▲ ● ▼		Good morning, Art.
unidentified		Al.
preston nichols ▲ ● ▼		Two questions.
		One, what is the exact title of the book that I should actually look up?
		The Philadelphia Story, and there's another part to that?
al bielek ▲ ● ▼		The Philadelphia Experiment and Other UFO Conspiracies.
preston nichols ▲ ● ▼		Oh, and other.
al bielek ▲ ● ▼		Okay.
		Publications.
		It was co-authored with Brad Steiger's, released in September 1990.
unidentified		1990.
al bielek ▲ ● ▼		It's still available and still in print.
preston nichols ▲ ● ▼		Okay.
preston nichols ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, I've had some problems on the publication regarding some involvement here, but how involved are the Russians with time and space testing?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, good question.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Are they ahead of us, behind us?
unidentified		Where are they?
unidentified		Sorry, what was the question?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		The Russians, Al, where are they with these experiments now?
al bielek ▲ ● ▼		In terms of the Philadelphia experiment, I don't know if they ever involved themselves in it.
		In terms of the Montauk project and that type of work, yes, they had their own parallel project.
		And when both ended in 1983, I know the U.S. one ended in 83 in 12 August.
		I do not know whether the Russian one did on that date.
		But I do know through sources that there was a scientific exchange of information as to what they found, what they accomplished, because the approaches were not identical.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
		Out of state, you're on the air with Al Bielick.
		Where are you calling from, please?
unidentified		On Brownington, Washington.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You're on one of those telephones.
al bielek ▲ ● ▼		Get off it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Get on a real phone.
al bielek ▲ ● ▼		Okay.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Thank you.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Go ahead.
al bielek ▲ ● ▼		I've been listening for a couple of hours now.
unidentified		I just wondered, is there any practical method of time travel for ordinary people?
al bielek ▲ ● ▼		Or is it only some huge government project that can do it?
unidentified		All right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That is a good question.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Al?
al bielek ▲ ● ▼		Well, in terms of the hardware, I don't think any ordinary people would be able to build it.
		In terms of the usage, anyone can use the equipment.
		It's not restrictive in terms of a certain type of person.
		But the government has a total monopoly on it other than a few corporations Who have been working with the government, and it's definitely not generally available.
		The only other way around that that I can suggest is if you are very heavily into meditation and that type of thing, you can find a way through meditation to time travel, not physically, but mentally or astrally, as they sometimes say, and you can get some of your own answers that way.
		This is not a physical time travel.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, for the individual, it's a metaphysical answer rather than a technically it is.
al bielek ▲ ● ▼		You're not going to get the hardware, and you're not going to be able to construct it because it is quite complex.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It's a fascinating answer, anyway.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Line two, you're on the air with Al Belick.
unidentified		Hi.
		Hi.
		Do you have any scientific proof about any of this?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Any hard proof, Al?
unidentified		Yes.
al bielek ▲ ● ▼		I'm sorry.
al bielek ▲ ● ▼		Hard proof of what?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, hard proof of any of any aspect of this story.
al bielek ▲ ● ▼		I have, but the problem is, the proof that I have of this is not publishable because the people who can corroborate this story do not wish to be known publicly.
unidentified		No, no.
		You know, if this was a true story, ABC would pick it up in a second.
		You know, if aliens actually did exist and all of this, this would be the best story that ever hit the, you know, this would be the best.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, of course it would, Color, but if the President of the United States is himself controlled, what makes you think that ABC would be exempt?
unidentified		Okay.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I mean, in other words, if you buy the story, then you've got to buy the control factor as well, and ABC wouldn't be a good thing.
unidentified		I'm just, you know, I'd like to believe this more than anything.
unidentified		You know, I would.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So would I, because I've been fascinated with and love the idea of time travel.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I love it.
unidentified		Yeah.
		So, you know, I'm a big fan of storage.
		This just made my date, you know, my dream come true, but I just see no hardcore evidence of it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, what do you say to somebody like that, Al?
		He sees no hardcore evidence.
		Wants to believe, but doubts.
al bielek ▲ ● ▼		Let me give the gentleman two insights.
		Number one, about a year and a half ago, unsolved mysteries became interested in the story that I had to tell, and then at a slightly later date, sightings in the West Coast became interested.
		Both of them dropped it like a hot potato.
		They refused to touch it beyond the initial inquiry and apparent interest.
		So far as the major networks are concerned on live television, none of them will touch it.
		And we know that because we have tried.
		And the only one who has touched it in terms of television has been the cable networks because they are not governed by the same set of rules.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
		Let's hold it there.
		We've got very little time.
		Line three.
		You're on the air with Al Buele.
unidentified		Yes, I have a question for Al.
unidentified		He says back in 1943, he traveled in 1983.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That is correct.
unidentified		Yes.
		Has he ever gone beyond 1983?
		And how much further in the future has he traveled if he did at all?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, thank you.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Is it possible to travel into the future now?
al bielek ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
		That was down at Montauk.
		All of the people who were new recruits, if you will, were required to take a trip into the future to the year 6037 AD and describe what they saw, and everyone came back with the same description.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Let's hear it.
al bielek ▲ ● ▼		I'm sorry?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Let's hear it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I want to know what's coming.
al bielek ▲ ● ▼		The description at 6037 AD that everyone came back with, because I went on a trip myself, was that you arrived in the middle of a circle, what appeared to be a traffic circle from the city that no longer existed.
		There was a gold statue there of a horse and some writing on the base.
		It was in gold, the base meaning a pedestal on which the horse was mounted.
		This traffic circle radiated out in various directions on roads.
		It was still there, but all buildings were obliterated.
		In the immediate area, in the far distance, you could see crumbling buildings.
		There was no sign of life of any kind, though there was blue skies and white clouds.
		But there's absolutely devoid of any life at that point.
		That was what everyone came back with in the same report.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Line one, you're on the air with Al Bilick.
unidentified		All right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Hello, where are you calling from, sir?
unidentified		I'm from Las Vegas, and I want to thank you guys for taking my call.
		It's very interesting and pretty believable.
		I just wanted to ask a question about Tesla.
		One caller got cut off.
		It seems kind of interesting.
		Is there any more information that we could get about Tesla?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, there's all kinds of information about Tesla if you're interested in his history.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Is that what you mean, Colin?
unidentified		More about his study or his notes or anything like that.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
		Yeah, that is a good question, Al, very quickly.
		What about Tesla's documentation, such as it was?
al bielek ▲ ● ▼		There's a great deal still available through the museum back in his Bucharest, I think it's Bucharest, back in his home county, or you might say, because Smilj and Croatia is no longer extended as a separate country.
		It is now part of Yugoslavia.
		But the museum which was set up after his death has a great deal of information.
		There's a great deal here available in the U.S. If you go to the International Tesla Society in Colorado Springs, Colorado, they have perhaps more specific information, documentation about his patents, his work at the Colorado Springs Laboratory in 1899 and 1900.
		That book is available.
		Lists of most of his patents are available.
		And of course, if you want to research the Institute of Electrical Engineers in New York, he was a regular lecturer from the period of about 1985, I'm sorry, 1885 onward.
		And those records all exist because the society was formed in 1884, and they've kept every book and every lecture on file at their headquarters in New York City.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Al, we're coming toward the end of the time.
		The telephones have never let up.
		They're still as jammed as they were.
		so we may at some point hope to have you back again.
		I'm trying to decide what would be the best.
al bielek ▲ ● ▼		Well, according to my birth certificate as Al Bielick, I would be 66.
		According to my still can't locate birth certificate of Edward Cameron, I would be 76, 77.
		And it's really questionable what my real age is.
		But if we use the date from 1916, That would say that I'm about 77.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, so you're on up there.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		My question is this: When you are gone, who will tell this story as you have told it, or will the story die with you?
al bielek ▲ ● ▼		No, it will not die with me.
		There will be another book in preparation.
		I've already made many videotapes across the nation from lectures, from other appearances, and the information will be well documented.
		Eventually, the government classification on this project will end on the Philadelphia experiment.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Do you know when that is?
al bielek ▲ ● ▼		Well, theoretically it has to end in August of this year because it's 50 years.
		And the question is whether or not they can force such continuance as a classified project because now it is up to...
		Well, you can get some information through Freedom of Information, but the problem there is that if they release a report, if they don't cite in the interest of national security, we can't release it, it may be blacked out so there's hardly anything left except the title page and the end page and index, perhaps.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, then hopefully you'll be with us for a while.
		Al, we've got to take off.
		You've got to get to bed.
		I thank you for being with us, and please plan on doing it again, will you?
		Listen, do you remember a time when you could buy a new car for $2,000?
		A new three-bedroom home for $10,000 or less, or maybe a $0.10 cup of coffee?
		A time when the average middle-income family had only one wage earner.
		That allowed the wife to devote full-time care for the family.
		They could still own their own home, buy a new car every couple of years, take a nice vacation every summer, put a couple of kids through college, and look forward to carefree retirement.
		That year was 1966, only 30 years ago.
		What happened?
		Well, to have the same standard of living today, you'd have to net, after taxes, about 10 times the income of that year.
		Very few of us have been able to keep pace.
		What's happened to our beloved American dollar, the American dream?
		For the answers to these questions and more, I want you to call my friends at North American Trading and ask for their free newsletter on the decline of the dollar.
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unidentified		Stay tuned for more of the best of Art Bell.
		My dad taught me the difference between collecting coins and saving money.
		I thought he'd been collecting U.S. savings bonds, but he was really helping to ensure our future.
		He told me that savings bonds are a guaranteed safe way to save money, that they're there when you need them, and that they earn interest for up to 30 years.
		That's ensuring the future.
		So I started my own collection of U.S. savings bonds.
		Just like that.
		Ask your banker or employer about U.S. savings bonds for all the right reasons.
		Alan and Dave talked to Ethel on AutoTalk.
		When those young kids come up next to me at the startling, it really irritates me.
		They're raving their engines, you know.
		So I took my Lamar McDowell to the shop and I put a blown 429 in it with a positive rear end of traction boards.
		Well, that officer can't do me any good because I'm only getting about 5,000 RPM.
		It's when they sit there and blow those engines up, you know, when they try and catch up with me, and that's what really makes me laugh.
		Uncle Talk, Saturday morning.
		Say, do you have fields, overgrown pastures, even scrubby wooded areas you'd like to keep clear?
		Well, listen to what Clem Grabner of Fairfax, Virginia has to say about his amazing walk-behind DR field and brush mower.
		We have 18 acres on the Shenandoah.
preston nichols ▲ ● ▼		We camp there.
		We used to have this one portion brush hogged, and then it got so expensive that.
		But your mower, I think, it paid for itself the first year.
unidentified		If you're gone a couple weeks, the place is up to your knees again.
unidentified		So it's been a real pleasure to have it.
preston nichols ▲ ● ▼		Most of it you can't cut with a regular mower.
preston nichols ▲ ● ▼		This mower that we have is just the thing we needed.
unidentified		It's very reliable.
preston nichols ▲ ● ▼		I mean, it's got a good mower on it.
unidentified		You can get a big color catalog direct from our factory all about the DR Field and Brush Mower.
		Just call toll-free 1-800-Field 13.
		That's 1-800-FIELD-13 for your free color catalog all about the amazing DR Field & Brush Mower.
ron jenkins ▲ ● ▼		USA Radio Network News, this is Ron Jenkins.
		Astronauts Mark Lee and Stephen Smith have wrapped up spacewalk number five, the final one for the Shuttle Discovery crew.
		They're now back inside the shuttle.
		At the conclusion of the latest spacewalk, capsule communicator Jeff Hoffman offered his gratitude to the crew for a job well done.
preston nichols ▲ ● ▼		Discovery Houston for the EVA crew, we see you holding at 5 psi.
preston nichols ▲ ● ▼		I'm getting ready to turn back over to Mark for the rest of the Orbit 1 shift, and I just wanted to tell you how much I've enjoyed talking with you guys during the EVA and how much everyone down here appreciates the TLC that all of you have given the Hubble telescopes.
ron jenkins ▲ ● ▼		American Airlines started it all with a fare-cutting program to win back some of the people scared off by a threatened pilot strike last week.
		Now four more major airlines have joined in the discounting.
		Travel agent Christian Sturm in Spokane, Washington says American is cutting its fares by as much as 50%, but he says there could be some smoke and mirrors involved.
unidentified		They take it off their full excursion fare.
		They don't discount it off usually their lowest fare that was already out before the sale.
		So it's a little bit of a trick, but it still ends up being really good savings for the consumer.
ron jenkins ▲ ● ▼		Some fares to London and Paris are under $500 for the round trip.
		China remains silent on the fragile health of Paramount leader Deng Xiaoping.
		Communist leaders and others have cut short out-of-town trips to visit the ailing patriarch.
		This is USA Radio News.
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ron jenkins ▲ ● ▼		Special Whitewater Prosecutor Kenneth Starr is leaving that job.
		He'll move to California where he'll become Dean of Pepperdine University in August.
		Starr says this doesn't mean the Whitewater investigation's over.
		He says it simply means somebody else is going to take charge.
		As for Starr, well, he's going to be a very busy man, according to Pepperdine's provost.
preston nichols ▲ ● ▼		Our assumption is that when he comes and takes up this responsibility, he will have a full-time responsibility.
preston nichols ▲ ● ▼		That will take place certainly as school begins sometime next fall, probably beginning sometime in August.
ron jenkins ▲ ● ▼		Caribbean President Alberto Fujimori says he's optimistic over the chances for a bloodless end to the two-month Lima hostage crisis.
		That's in spite of the apparent lack of progress in renewed talks with Marxist rebels.
		Three rounds of face-to-face talks between rebels and the government negotiator raised hopes of a breakthrough, but so far, no sign that the signs are moving any closer to resolving the hostage issue.
unidentified		This is USA Radio News.
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ron jenkins ▲ ● ▼		Right on her first international tour as Secretary of States in Paris, France, and apparently talking tough to the French.
ron jenkins ▲ ● ▼		USA's Connie Lawn has more.
unidentified		U.S. officials say Secretary of State Madeleine Albright is charming her hosts in Germany and France, but has not resolved key differences with the French.
		In fact, despite kisses from the French foreign minister, the tough-talking Secretary of State has not yielded to his demands on a variety of topics.
		U.S. officials say they have not agreed to France's call to hand over NATO southern command to France.
		The U.S. does appear to agree to a French proposal for a Five Nations summit to overcome Russian hostility on NATO.
		Hanil on USA Radio News, Washington.
ron jenkins ▲ ● ▼		Latest reports from Seoul indicate tensions are mounting on the Korean Peninsula, despite indications from North Korea that it may accept the defection of one of its high officials in Beijing.
ron jenkins ▲ ● ▼		Ron Jenkins on the USA Radio Network.
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		You're listening to Art's 1993 interview with Al Bielick on this, the absolute best of Coast to Coast A.M. with Art Bell.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		My guest is indeed from Iceland East Island, New York, Preston Nichols.
		And in effect, he's going to pick up where Al Bielick left off.
		And many of you, I know many of you, are very familiar with the story of the Philadelphia Experiment and Al Bielick.
		Don't know a lot about Preston Nichols and the Montauk Project, but as you know, Al Bielick referred to it as part of the Philadelphia Experiment, so it's been a great curiosity for me and for many of you.
		And we are honored, therefore, to have Preston Nichols with us this evening.
		Let's go all the way to East Island, New York.
		And Preston Nichols.
		Preston, are you there?
preston nichols ▲ ● ▼		Yes, I'm here.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, welcome to the program.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Thank you.
preston nichols ▲ ● ▼		Pleasure is mine.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Preston, I don't have any sort of biographical sketch on you, so why don't you tell me, tell everybody who you are?
preston nichols ▲ ● ▼		I'm essentially an electrical engineer, graduated from University of Tampa, attended the Polytechnic Institute of New York.
preston nichols ▲ ● ▼		I've worked in the military-industrial establishment for a number of years, worked on many secret projects, including the Montauk project.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay, are you retired now?
preston nichols ▲ ● ▼		I consider myself semi-retired.
preston nichols ▲ ● ▼		I've been forced to be semi-retired.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay.
preston nichols ▲ ● ▼		I have my own business now.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You have your own business, huh?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You want to tell us what kind of business?
preston nichols ▲ ● ▼		We do electronics manufacturing, small manufacturing, R ⁇ D work, testing.
preston nichols ▲ ● ▼		We do rebuilding of electronic equipment for the small industries on Long Island here.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Very good.
		All right, Preston.
		What in the world is or was, is the Montauk Project still going on?
preston nichols ▲ ● ▼		Yes, it is.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It is.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		When did it begin, and what can you tell us about it?
preston nichols ▲ ● ▼		Well, as far as we know, it traces back to about 1947 when they decided to restart the Philadelphia experiment to find out what actually went wrong and why the people on the boat were not able to take the fields.
		As we've all heard before, the Philadelphia experiment is where they attempted to make a ship, a Navy ship radar invisible.
		They got total invisibility and the thing disappeared.
		And they got sucked into a hole in hyperspace between 1943 and 1983.
		Excuse me.
		I have a little bit of an allergy problem right now.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, it's bad all over the United States.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Allergies are high everywhere.
preston nichols ▲ ● ▼		So what actually happened is they did a lot of R ⁇ D work.
		The project split into two.
		The engineering went to Los Alamos, we believe, and that's where they developed the SELF technology.
		It's on the third level of the SELF aircraft these days.
		The other part of the project, which was the Human Factors Project, went to Brookhaven National Laboratory, which was the largest human factors research in the United States.
		This is now about 1950, we believe.
		It joined what was known as the Phoenix Project, which was a very large, all-encompassing research project involving research into the human mind, the mind of man.
		Starting back in World War I and World War II with propaganda, PA systems, leaflets dropping, this sort of thing, it evolved up through chemical research, drug research.
		After they spun their wheels a lot of time out of Brookhaven Web, they got the cell technology user-friendly.
		That means human beings could take the field.
		I cannot go into what that's all about because they did sign security on that.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		They made you sign a paper.
preston nichols ▲ ● ▼		But when you get employment, anything that they have you sign, there would be illegal and jail time to talk about.
preston nichols ▲ ● ▼		You'd be convicted of espionage.
unidentified		That's right.
preston nichols ▲ ● ▼		See, on the Montpau project, they use different methods of security, which we can get into a little later, where I never signed for it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So there will be some of it that you can talk about?
preston nichols ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, the Montpaw project I can talk of because that I never signed for.
preston nichols ▲ ● ▼		In fact, officially, I never existed on that project.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh.
		Well, all right.
		Let's back up a little bit.
		I'm sure that you've heard Al Belick's description of the Philadelphia experience.
preston nichols ▲ ● ▼		Yes, I have many times.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Do you agree with or quarrel with it?
		Or do you think it's accurate?
		Or do you know of any inaccuracies or anything you'd like to correct about what he said about it?
preston nichols ▲ ● ▼		Well, essentially, what he's saying is very controversial.
		I believe there are many different tests of radar invisibility, total invisibility, that the government research did attempt in World War II, and he's reporting on one test.
		If you read the popular Bill Moore book, Bill Moore compiled all sorts of information, which was a number of different kinds of tests, different kinds of procedures used.
		This is why the book is somewhat confusing.
		I was speaking essentially from personal experience in talking to a lot of other people that he's come across, just as I've come across people.
		The Philadelphia experiment did happen.
		It was definitely a high-energy physics project.
		There is other information coming to surface saying that Nicola Tesla had an input to it in the beginning.
		Correct.
		And, you know, Dr. John Eric von Neumann definitely did work on it.
		He himself told me that.
		And I think Al's idea of what happened on the boat is pretty much correct.
		Because also I've had the same idea from other witnesses like Duncan Cameron, who was also on the boat with Al.
		I really don't have any quarrels with Al.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So then you think the story is essentially correct?
preston nichols ▲ ● ▼		It's essentially correct.
preston nichols ▲ ● ▼		I think he may have missed some items and some of the points.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		One thing that I've found as I've interviewed, I do another show called Dreamland, and I interview a lot of people who talk about time travel, talk about alien spacecraft and the way space might be warped and the way it might be jumped across, in fact.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And the technologies that they're talking about are strikingly similar to the one that Al Bielick told us about.
preston nichols ▲ ● ▼		Well, again, we're discussing here what happens when you pulse a magnetic field to extremely strong levels.
		It's well known in the quantum physics world that if you pulse a magnetic field beyond, I believe it's 1,000 Tesla field strength, it is highly possible to bend space and time.
		Now, if you can control this, it is theoretically possible to gain control of space and the time continuum, which would lead to the idea that all this stuff you hear coming out of the UFO legends has some scientific basis behind it.
		Although a lot of the physicists will not accept the idea there are parallel multiple realities.
		But your quantum physics is beginning to accept that idea at this point.
		And a lot of them always have.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		What was the mission of the Montauk project?
		what were they trying to do, accomplish?
		What was the central theme?
preston nichols ▲ ● ▼		Well, after the stealth technology was developed, it was suggested that this is the first time we have definite evidence that the mind of man is sensitive to electromagnetic fields.
		Let's research this further and develop population control.
		We can weaponize this thing as to make the enemy surrender.
		And, you know, I'm sure the possibilities are mind-boggling at this point.
		Congress said, no, we don't want this.
		This is mind control.
		This is too physically active.
		They were setting up to research literally mind control technologies.
		They went to the military and said, would you be interested in this kind of weapon?
		Of course, this is every tactician's dream.
		So the military said, yes, we are.
		And they gave them the old Montfort Air Force Station, which is only about 40 miles away from Brookhaven Labs, that they can do this stuff in secrecy and not be under the watchful eye of the congressional committees.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, when you say mind control, what exactly were they able to do to a person?
preston nichols ▲ ● ▼		Well, they were able to essentially inject a thought into a person's mind.
		They can breathe with his own thoughts and control what you're thinking and therefore have some effect on what you're doing.
		They could literally read out what you're thinking.
		They can modify your thought patterns.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh.
preston nichols ▲ ● ▼		And this was done at a distance using radio waves.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		At a distance using radio waves.
preston nichols ▲ ● ▼		That's what this whole thing was about.
		Remember, it started by studying the effects of electromagnetics on human beings in the cell technology.
		It evolved into this device that could literally reach into a person's mind.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		At a distance.
preston nichols ▲ ● ▼		At a distance.
		Up to about thousands of miles.
		We're not sure exactly how far it was.
unidentified		All right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You said you can't talk about the technical aspects of whatever allowed the biologically friendly fields to be applied.
		But can you talk about the technology that allows mind control?
		Or is that one of the things?
preston nichols ▲ ● ▼		I'm not sure if I did not sign for that.
preston nichols ▲ ● ▼		They use mind control to make anyone that worked on the project forget what they did.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, all right.
		What technology is behind that?
		I know radio waves, but radio waves generally are totally harmless and without effect to biological entities.
		They're all around us.
preston nichols ▲ ● ▼		Well, this, as you've probably been reaching, this is coming up to a lot of debate at this point exactly how harmless are these electromagnetic waves.
unidentified		That's true.
preston nichols ▲ ● ▼		Most of our waves that we do deal with in our environment are what we call continuous waves, CW, like coming out of your radio transmitter.
		Human beings are sensitive to pulse waves, pass on and off, semi-random fractal base type modulations in pulse form.
		They use pulse frequency and pulse amplitude.
		It's a very, very specialized form of modulation resembling some very modern church-type radar signals.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, so it's a true pulse then.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It's not just a pulse modulation?
preston nichols ▲ ● ▼		It's a true pulse.
preston nichols ▲ ● ▼		It's a frequency hopping pulse.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Frequency hopping.
preston nichols ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, it goes from frequency to frequency to frequency.
		If you tune it in on a radio receiver, it just sounds like a crack at a particular frequency.
		Then it goes to another frequency, you got another crack, and it hops around from frequency to frequency.
		Montauk had about 20 different frequencies.
		They hopped between 420 and 460 megahertz.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		420 and 460 again, that's interesting.
		Interesting.
		The Russians are using something, something or another, that we call the woodpecker.
preston nichols ▲ ● ▼		Well, that's HF.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's HF, is correct.
unidentified		And that's the same similar type of modulation scheme.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Is it?
preston nichols ▲ ● ▼		Again, it's a pulse with a chirp inside the pulse.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh.
preston nichols ▲ ● ▼		I've looked at the Russian woodpecker.
		In fact, we have what we call Oval Horizon radar here, which looks almost identical, but much more sophisticated.
		And when that first appeared on the air, I called the FCC and asked them what it was, and they said it was the American version.
		It was the American Over the Horizon radar.
		And I said, oh, you mean like the Russian woodpecker?
		And he said, yeah, it's our version of the woodpecker.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I see.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And so then you're saying that with the right kind of pulse in the right frequency range.
preston nichols ▲ ● ▼		Not the frequency range, how you hop from frequency to frequency.
		But remember, you're building essentially a hologram, a holographic type information packet out of delta frequency information and delta amplitude information and delta phase.
		Of course, phase and frequency is the same.
		Remember, you're dealing here with very fast deltas.
		You have to integrate this into essentially a random ordered white noise pattern built very much on fractals.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Let's assume then that all of this, which is going to begin to get above some of their heads and perhaps mine as well, all of this would affect a biological entity.
preston nichols ▲ ● ▼		It's a very unique type of radio signal.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		The next question is, how would you make it specific to any particular biological entity?
preston nichols ▲ ● ▼		Okay, that is very interesting itself.
		See, at the Montport Project, we use what we call a witness or a signature.
		A signature is a group of frequencies, an electromagnetic frequency transform, which represents a particular human being, like a set of fingerprints.
		You would perceive a holographic thought with the signature, transmit the thought, and then follow it with the signature.
		That signature would identify it as a person's particular thought.
		All you would have to do is identify the person's signature, and as the signal is being generated, it would be transmitted with that signature.
		Montauk essentially was what we like to call a mind amplifier.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, okay, I'm beginning to get it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So an individual then is required as part of the, in effect, the transmitted portion?
preston nichols ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, the overall signal that was being transmitted was generated by a human being at Montauk.
		They had a group of sensors that picked up his holographic thought patterns, processed it through a very large computer system, and then put it into a modified radar transmitter.
		That's where I came into the picture because I was the one that was in charge of modifying the radar transmitter.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, that's incredible.
		Oh, I see.
		All right, so that's how you got into this.
preston nichols ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, you essentially built a mind amplifier.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, I understand.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		A mind amplifier.
preston nichols ▲ ● ▼		And you've led to all sorts of things, including mind control, precipitation of objects.
		You know, there was all sorts of things that were done from this.
		Well, let's be able to create an object out of the background ether.
		So the person sitting at the input of this could visualize that object in their artificial reality or virtual reality.
		This equipment had the capability of making it real.
		We're talking probably at least 100 million watts continuous, not pulse, power that they had out there.
		If the thing was modified to what's known as BMUs, which had 100 megawatt continuous power.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Did it actually create an object or did it create the vision of an object?
preston nichols ▲ ● ▼		It could do either one, depending upon the fidelity of the transform being reproduced through the equipment.
		But you could picture if your signal coming out of your transmitter was complete enough, it would be theoretically possible to recreate you at the other end.
		The reason you can't is one, the receiver doesn't have enough power, and the information channel from the transmitter to the receiver is nowhere near high enough fidelity in the other dimensions and realities required to do it.
		This is what we tried to do at Montauk, was bring up this fidelity factor of broadcast.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		What could you get an individual to do?
		You say you could put an idea in an individual's mind.
		How much power of suggestion could you accomplish?
preston nichols ▲ ● ▼		Okay, I really don't know because that's the logistics of the project.
		You remember the information is very compartmentalized and alleged.
		This is reports from people who I've spoken to told me that they can get a person to do almost anything they want.
		This is the way it was put.
		But almost the sky was the limit.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		God, that's incredible.
preston nichols ▲ ● ▼		I wanted to program somebody to be an assassin.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, I was just about to say the latest incident occurred yesterday, and I'm not saying that the two are tied together.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I'm not going to say that, but there was an incident in Florida, just like so many that we've had, a long chain of them, Preston, in which individuals for almost unknowable reasons get a gun and start shooting people.
preston nichols ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, I know.
		We've been seeing this quite often.
		I've wondered myself if this is some sort of programming that's being activated.
		I'm not going to say it is.
		I really don't know.
		I'm saying it's a possibility.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It's something to wonder about.
preston nichols ▲ ● ▼		Yes, that I do agree with.
unidentified		Trestin, is time travel possible?
preston nichols ▲ ● ▼		Well, the thing you have to keep in mind is if you go into pure metaphysics, the non-physical mind is a ripple or a transform or a form on the space-time continuum.
		If you're going to get your way into the non-physical mind, you've got to generate a time wave, which is like a warping or a repetitive bending of the time function.
		Now, if you could get into this, you have the remnants of a time machine.
		Now, I know when things were being created out of real time, what I mean is when the concentration would be at 3 o'clock in the afternoon and the object would appear early or after that time, they got very excited, shut the project down for a couple of months, and started going back to school to learn about time.
		I know they're interested in time manipulation, but of course, who wouldn't be?
		Yes.
		Now, being that we're compartmentalized, I have no personal knowledge of how successful the time portal to say was.
		Again, people who had worked with the time portal tell us that it was stable and that was usable.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Meaning you could travel in time.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Meaning physically travel to another time.
preston nichols ▲ ● ▼		Okay, now the newer quantum theories, even those theories appearing in Scientific American, are saying that there are multiple realities where time is different.
		And because of the multiple realities, all time does coexist.
		And it's possible to move from point A to point B in time.
		And they're saying even it's possible to go into the future, which has a lot to say about is the future predestined or isn't it?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Exactly.
preston nichols ▲ ● ▼		If you can travel into the future, to me, it means that we're already predestined as to what's going to happen.
preston nichols ▲ ● ▼		I believe if you make a time loop from point A to point B, you just predestined between point A and point B. All right, Preston, I want you to hold on for a moment.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		We're going to take a break here at the bottom of the hour.
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		CBC, Chancellor Broadcasting Company, for the strange and unusual, it's Dreamland with Ark Bell.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		What do we discuss on Dreamland?
		Two fascinating areas.
		Is there life after death and are we alone in the universe?
		Two ultimate questions mankind's been trying to answer for thousands of years.
		We'll be talking about it this week right here on Dreamland.
unidentified		Dreamland.
unidentified		You're listening to a rebroadcast of Coast to Coast A.M. with Art Bell.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Justin, are you there?
preston nichols ▲ ● ▼		Yes, I am.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, this is a fact that came.
		Actually, it's not.
		It came to me on America Online on a computer service, internet.
		And it was Greg in San Diego.
		Been listening for a couple of years.
		Love the show.
		Tonight's show.
		If I can't get in, ask your guest about the creature.
		I say again, the creature that was brought forward in time to the present, actually 1983, I think it was.
		It was some sort of, he said it was some sort of Bigfoot creature.
		It did a lot of damage at the project, maybe killed some people.
		I've heard that it might have been 10 to 20 feet high.
		Please ask him to talk about this.
		Do you know anything about it?
preston nichols ▲ ● ▼		Yes, I was there when the thing was generated.
		I didn't see it personally.
		I heard about it.
		And we believe it was precipitated out of the subconscious of the person sitting at the input of the transmitter named Duncan Cameron, who surfaced a monster out of the subconscious, just like the Quad of Forbidden Planet.
		It can be done, people.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		The monster from the id.
preston nichols ▲ ● ▼		Yes, it can be done.
		And this thing was precipitated.
		It was big, hairy, hungry, nasty, mean.
		We have photographs of it.
		If you go even to the present day, stand on the roof of the radar tower at Montauk and shoot towards a bunker, which is southwest of the radar tower, you'll see a form, a humanoid form on the bunker.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh?
preston nichols ▲ ● ▼		Although it's not there physically, there's enough of a pattern there that photographic equipment can pick it up.
		I saw a tape called the Montauk Tour, where we have shots from the roof, and you can see the monster in motion, moving very fast.
		He turns around, walks within a frame of a TV picture.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Is it what others have called Bigfoot?
preston nichols ▲ ● ▼		It sure looks like Bigfoot.
		I really don't know.
		I did not hear that it killed anybody.
		I heard it just scared the people.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, it would scare you, all right?
preston nichols ▲ ● ▼		Oh, yes.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Is there anything at all that you can tell us about the adaptation of the technology to be biologically friendly?
preston nichols ▲ ● ▼		Well, let's say first that there are three levels of felt.
		The first two we hear about quite often, which is the radar cross-section, which is how much radar signal does the thing reflect.
		The second level is absorbing the radar signal.
		Now, if you've seen a picture or seen a SELT bomber or SELT fighter, you'll know darn well it's a huge pancake, and this kind of gives a lot of radar cross-section.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
preston nichols ▲ ● ▼		So they didn't do a good job there.
		And I have worked with the absorbing coatings in order to try to cut down reflections inside of component enclosures.
		And that stuff doesn't work all that well.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Composite materials.
preston nichols ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, so what this is saying is there's got to be a third level.
		The third level is electromagnetic bottle.
		Now, how they made the thing used as frenzy in a nutshell, this is alluded to in some of the aircraft publications, the electromagnetic bottle.
		They found out that when they cut off the human being from the natural background clocks, you know, the Schumann resonance and all this sort of thing, he had a tendency to become disoriented.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, no, I don't know what you mean.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		What do you mean when you cut him off from normal human clocks?
preston nichols ▲ ● ▼		Well, the Earth has a clock.
		It's commonly called the Schuman resonance, discovered by W.L. Schumann, which every time lightning strikes in the cavity between the upper atmosphere, the ionosphere, and the Earth, this cavity rings.
		The frequency is around 8 Hz.
		It slows between 7 Hz and 9 Hz, typically, depending upon the time of day.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's very low.
preston nichols ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, very, very low.
		And this is sort of what clocks our biological functions.
		Also, this changing of the frequency from night to day is the causes us to wake up, go to sleep.
		It causes a lymphatic flush of the system.
		It also has a lot to do with the alphabetic ammarisms in the brain.
		Now, the other problem, they had to, the original technology created a solid field.
		They had to somehow focus this field into a shell so that the people were not getting irradiated by this large field.
		I'm not talking atomic radiation, but essentially electromagnetic radiation.
		There is a difference.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
preston nichols ▲ ● ▼		But either one can be just as dangerous, especially when you're using pulse magnetic fields like they were using to bend space-time to the point where they're just outside of our continuum, so the thing was somewhat invisible, either radar or fully invisible.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So you could get different levels of stealth depending on how you...
preston nichols ▲ ● ▼		They go from either zero being in our reality or 90 degrees out being in the imaginary reality.
preston nichols ▲ ● ▼		At that point, the object is gone.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Where is the object?
preston nichols ▲ ● ▼		It exists, we believe, in another reality which parallels ours, which is an authorotation of 90 degrees, where there's length and width but no height.
preston nichols ▲ ● ▼		Now, if you go 180 away, you're in an antimatter reality that parallels us.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And what is that?
preston nichols ▲ ● ▼		We really don't know.
preston nichols ▲ ● ▼		I don't know if anyone's been there.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And come back anyway.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		What are they doing at Montauk now?
preston nichols ▲ ● ▼		Well, present day, it is a state park.
		It's listed on all the maps as Department of Parks property.
		The state park is annexed on to the Montauk Point State Park.
		It's known as the Camp Hero Park.
		Only thing is, the park is closed to the public.
		They've got a big sunsuffer around it.
		They've got security on the base.
		They've got an electric gate.
		And there's two power lines going into the park, each capable of multi-megawatts.
		Now, what's a state park doing with multi-megawatts?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Good question.
preston nichols ▲ ● ▼		Now, we've also noticed that there's all sorts of activity.
		They have what we believe to be a fake program for reclaiming the site and detoxing the site.
		They talk of removing asbus.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Asbestos.
preston nichols ▲ ● ▼		Around the facility, there's the elevated pipes that they use to carry hot water, which had asbestos jackets.
		Even to this day, they haven't taken that off, and that's the easiest thing to get off.
		And probably some of the most dangerous is as the wind blows, that asbestos is powdering and being blown all over the place.
		So, if they were really removing asbestos, that would have been one of the first things they would have gotten to.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, what kind of buildings are there?
preston nichols ▲ ● ▼		They're demolishing a lot of the old burrow-based buildings.
		We believe the active area is underground.
		We've had reports, and I know I've been in the underground, but we've had reports that there's now an eight-level underground, which is huge.
		It goes out for miles.
		Now, what I was also going to mention is there are some cement buildings on top of what we call Radar Hill, where the Radar Tower is computer center is, which is physically part of the underground.
		And if you put your ears up against the cement walls, you'll hear like machinery running.
		There are pipes that stick up out of the ground that I've dropped a microphone down, and you'll hear the whine of a turbine and the grinding of some sort of sand.
		Now, for a derelict station, what is the machinery that we hear running?
		I'm not the only one that hears this.
		A lot of people have reported this.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I understand.
unidentified		What do you think they are doing there?
preston nichols ▲ ● ▼		Some sort of something going into the electromagnetic for the planet itself.
preston nichols ▲ ● ▼		It's been suggested that the planet is tilting, and that's what they're trying, tilting on the axis, and that's what they're trying to prevent.
unidentified		Who knows?
preston nichols ▲ ● ▼		What they're doing is up to a lot of speculation and conjecture.
		All I can tell you is if you go out there at the right time, you'll pick up a very slow pulse transmission between 420 and 450 megahertz.
		Again, it's still out there.
		I got recordings of it.
		And also, you'll pick up a very complex data transmission at 173 megahertz, which is in the guard band for Channel 7.
		That's why they can't watch Channel 7.
		If you DF these transmissions, it goes right to the old base.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, isn't that something?
preston nichols ▲ ● ▼		Now, the 173 megahertz transmission, it was done by any civilian.
preston nichols ▲ ● ▼		The FCC is having to shut them down.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		In New York second.
		That's true.
		Do you think that that is some sort of remote control, perhaps?
preston nichols ▲ ● ▼		It is some sort of a data link.
		What the purpose is, I really don't know, because I have no way of decoding it.
		Because I recorded it, wideband recording, video recordings, and handed it to different people, and they tried all the known codes on it, and it doesn't decode.
		That's some sort of government secret code, most likely.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Is there mind control going on now?
preston nichols ▲ ● ▼		There are all sorts of transitions going on right now, which are definitely psychoactive.
		Whether they're on purpose or accidental, I really don't know.
		And they seem to have effects on a subnormal level on our consciousness.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Tell me, you were saying in effect that what they were doing was amplifying the human mind.
		Yes.
		Can that be done with any human being, or are there some humans that lend themselves more toward that?
preston nichols ▲ ● ▼		Okay, theoretically, it can be done with any human being, but you want a person who is trained that when he concentrates, his whole fiber, his whole being concentrates on the one thing.
		That's a specially trained person.
		Theoretically, any one of us could be trained to do if we went through the training and we had the capabilities and the qualities, whatever that is.
		Duncan Cameron is a very unique individual, being able to, he can only concentrate on one thing at a time.
		He can't concentrate on multiple tasks.
		He's so trained to go one thing at a time.
		See, the human being has to create a virtual reality in his mind.
		And then the equipment picks out the emanations of that reality.
		So, of course, the more complete that reality is, the more complete the transform or the metaphysical thought form would be.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And so you're saying an individual using this process with that equipment could create anything from a material object to a being or an entity or a monster?
preston nichols ▲ ● ▼		Well, we know that they could create objects.
preston nichols ▲ ● ▼		When they went to try to create living beings, they had trouble creating living beings because now you need a much higher degree of information and fidelity.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I'm sure you do.
preston nichols ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Any living creature.
preston nichols ▲ ● ▼		It's much more complex and much more detailed.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Exactly.
preston nichols ▲ ● ▼		It's like taking a TV set and trying to put a thousand-line picture on it.
preston nichols ▲ ● ▼		You just can't do it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		How far have they come in the fidelity area?
preston nichols ▲ ● ▼		I don't know.
preston nichols ▲ ● ▼		Since 83, I have no knowledge.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		What part did Montauk play, or what part do you know that it played, in the Philadelphia Experiment?
		As I recall, Al Bielek said...
		Exactly.
preston nichols ▲ ● ▼		We're finding that there's quite a few sailors that came from the Eldridge to Montauk and did different things.
		And the Montauk Project was the other end of the time loop between 43 and 83.
		They used this totally fixed time loop between two points, actually 3.63 as well.
		They used this time loop as like a master loop to anchor open-ended loops.
		That means there's equipment only on one end.
		Wherever somebody like Duncan Cameron could picture the time vortex going, if they said, LOE was good enough, we'll go there.
		But you'd have to have an anchor to hold it all stable, and that's what they used 43, 63, 83 for.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		What made Montauk the other end of it?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		In other words, what focused on Montauk as the other end, or how did that?
preston nichols ▲ ● ▼		Well, in metaphysics, we have what we call a witness.
		What this is, you take a photograph of a person, that photograph carries their signature or whatever you want to call it.
		That's a witness.
		We made sure that we had a witness from Montauk to the Eldridge by having some of the equipment on the Eldridge, physically part of the Montauk system.
		We had people present that were on both projects, and then they used the Earth biorhythm cycle as the final witness effect and guarantee the lockup of the two projects through space and time.
		And there's rumors that this may have even ripped open hyperspace enough to allow all the UFOs that have come in recently since 47.
unidentified		Wow.
preston nichols ▲ ● ▼		But has made a major rift in space-time between 43 and 83.
		No question.
		Another person going to come in through that?
		I don't know.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
		Again, let's go into the basic technology that's allowing all of this.
		And in some detail, in other words, if I wanted to set up something that would bend space and time or that I could begin to focus waves to affect biological entities, what kind of technology would I use?
		How would I put it together?
preston nichols ▲ ● ▼		Well, if you did it the way the government did it, their benchmark was, let's kill flies with a sledgehammer.
		Lots and lots of power.
		They had a final amplifier in their transmitter, which had an input of at least 200 million watts of power, wasted half of that in heat, heated the Atlantic Ocean with it, and put out 100 million watts.
		That means to do anything, you would have to build maybe one hundredths of that.
		It means you'd have to build a megawatt transmitter and then pulse the thing.
		Frequency, hop it, and pulse it.
		Then you would have to somehow correlate this to represent a fractal-based frequency time transform.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, that gets a little complicated.
		Let me give you an analogy, and you tell me if this is a good analogy.
		Go ahead.
		It certainly is possible because it was done to send a signal across the Atlantic Ocean with a spark gap transmitter.
preston nichols ▲ ● ▼		True.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It could be done, but it takes massive, massive amounts of power that is very wasteful.
preston nichols ▲ ● ▼		Which they didn't have in those days.
		They were transmitting some other form of electromagnetics.
		You can see there's a coherer they use at the other end.
		You need millivolts of signals.
		And if you transmit a kilowatt across the Atlantic Ocean, you get maybe 10 microvolts top.
		How the hell did that coherer trigger?
		You tell me.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, my point was, you could send a spark signal across the Atlantic.
		It was done, but it required a very great deal of power.
		You can do it today.
preston nichols ▲ ● ▼		There wasn't that much power.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, compared to the power that you, for example, with a modern single sideband narrowband transmitter, you could do it today with far less power.
preston nichols ▲ ● ▼		You do it about 10 watts.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, that's exactly right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So that seems like a good analogy to the beginning of the Philadelphia experiment versus the refinements that occurred at Montauk.
preston nichols ▲ ● ▼		But still at Montauk, they used tremendous amounts of power.
		Of course, they were trying to bend the space-time continuum, and it takes tremendous amounts of power.
		Any quantum physicist will tell you that.
		It takes something like 5,000 and 10,000 ampere per meter magnetic field.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, but the original Philadelphia experiment was, as you said, kind of a blunderbus compared to what could be done today.
preston nichols ▲ ● ▼		Well, the Montauk project was much more finesse.
		That's why Montork's project controlled the vortex.
		They didn't control it from Philadelphia.
		They controlled it from Montauk.
		Philadelphia was just another power source.
		That's all it was.
		It was an open-ended power source.
		They had no finesse.
		All they did was just generate tons of power, put it out in the ether, and by gosh, by God, something happened.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		What did you actually do?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		What did you work on?
preston nichols ▲ ● ▼		I was started as a technician, graduated up to an engineer.
		My responsibility was to modify the old SAGE radar transmitter.
		I was the fellow that set up the pulse modulation schemes, the synchrodyne modulation schemes, and set up the frequency hopping.
		I had to work on the coho to synthesize local oscillators that we used in the transmitter.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		What did they tell you you were working on?
preston nichols ▲ ● ▼		They told me that we were working on equipment to interface human beings to technology, the mind of man, the technology, which was very interesting to me.
unidentified		I should say.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I should say.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		But you were actually working on the pulsing of the signal that would carry a transmission, not so much that is to affect other human beings, right?
preston nichols ▲ ● ▼		I didn't realize this until later on in the project, this is what they were really doing.
preston nichols ▲ ● ▼		At that time, I was so involved in it, I couldn't see myself getting out of it easily.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, it seems to me that's a very, very dangerous technology.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Very dangerous.
preston nichols ▲ ● ▼		Very dangerous, yes, I agree with you.
preston nichols ▲ ● ▼		We all decided towards the end of the project to crash it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, oh, you did.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's what I was going to ask you.
preston nichols ▲ ● ▼		That's why the monster was created, to crash the project.
		Because Duncan, especially, was saying things that the rest of us didn't dare say.
		Duncan found God got exercised.
		We don't know what happened, but all of a sudden he called a meeting and said, hey, this thing is going totally into the lower world and the lower domains.
		It's getting very evil.
		Of course, we all knew this, but we didn't have the guts to say it.
		And we all agree, yes, yes, yes.
		What do we do?
		Well, we've got to bring this thing down.
		How do we do it?
		Well, let's create this big, hungry, nasty monster that will scare them into crashing it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Fascinating.
preston nichols ▲ ● ▼		And it worked?
		Yes, it worked very well.
		All it did was drive them on the ground.
		Just shove them down for a while.
		They're still doing it.
		Exactly what they're doing, we don't know.
		We're still researching that.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, Preston, hang in there.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You've got a bit of a rest here at the top of the hour, and we'll be back to you.
preston nichols ▲ ● ▼		Okay.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Preston Nichols is my guest.
		The Montauk Project, kind of a follow-up on the Philadelphia experiment, is the topic.
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unidentified		If you've missed any part of tonight's interviews with Al Bulick or Preston Nichols and you'd like to have a copy on tape, dial toll-free 1-800-917-4278 and ask for tape number 97-0217C.
		The cost is $33.50 for all five hours without the commercials.
		That toll-free number is 1-800-917-4278.
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		Things were really cooking at the Safety Belt Steakhouse.
		When we pinched them.
		Ouch!
ron jenkins ▲ ● ▼		Betty gives us a ticket.
unidentified		That's right, and don't call me Betty.
unidentified		But we never wear safety belts.
ron jenkins ▲ ● ▼		See, we're dummies.
unidentified		Then here's something even you can understand.
ron jenkins ▲ ● ▼		For a good time, Cole.
unidentified		No, this.
		A ticket?
		Police are now ticketing low-life scum who don't wear safety belts, so buckle up.
ron jenkins ▲ ● ▼		Surely you can give us a break.
unidentified		No, and don't call me Shirley.
ron jenkins ▲ ● ▼		A message from the Department of Transportation and the Ad Council.
		USA Radio Network News, this is Ron Jenkins.
		The crew of the Space Shuttle Discovery finished its last spacewalk of the mission, and during that walk, the crew made more repairs on the Hubble Space Telescope.
		Steve Nesbitt of NASA says everything is going very well.
		The mission so far is a success.
		Jeff Hoffman, capsule communicator, thanked the crew.
		Astronaut Stephen Smith thanked Houston in return.
unidentified		Well, Jeff, as an IV, I want to tell you it's been a pleasure working with you, and we've got a whole lot of confidence with the team down there, and you've been an excellent spokesman as well as Mark, and it's been a real joy to work with all of you.
unidentified		Thank you very much.
ron jenkins ▲ ● ▼		Tonight, the crew makes final electronics tests of the Hubble, then turns the telescope loose in orbit and moves away to prepare for the trip home.
		Kenneth Starr, independent counsel investigating the Whitewater case and any involvement by the Clintons, is leaving that job to take on the dean's position at Pepperdine University in California.
		He was asked if that meant there were no indictments pending against the first family.
unidentified		I can't comment at all on the investigation.
		As you know, we do our talking in court.
		I just think it would be wrong.
		It would be wrong to be making predictive judgments based upon what one individual may do.
ron jenkins ▲ ● ▼		Starr starts his Pepperdine job August 1st, and U.S. Secretary of State Madeleine Albright attends her first NATO foreign ministers meeting today in Paris.
ron jenkins ▲ ● ▼		This is USA Radio News.
unidentified		Arcellini and Wilkins, five reasons you should be investing in gold today.
		Reason number two, foreign loans.
		It's common knowledge and has been published that one, foreign investment has subsidized U.S. interest rates.
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		The fact is that your paper investments are linked to variables you have no control over.
		They rise and they fall at the whim of phenomenon, sometimes as nebulous as fear.
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ron jenkins ▲ ● ▼		The investigation into alleged influence peddling in the 1996 presidential election has brought with it 20 new subpoenas and word from the chief investigator that there could be even more.
		Dan Burton, Indiana Republican and chairman of the House Committee on Government Reform and Oversight, is working with Senator Fred Thompson's Governmental Affairs Committee.
		They're looking at possible foreign influence in the U.S. election process.
		Jeff Birnbaum is the Washington Bureau Chief of Fortune magazine, and he says Burton's job is a sizable one.
unidentified		Dan Burton, the chairman of the committee in the House that's looking into this, wishes he didn't have such an extensive investigation, but so much has been happening and so much has been flowing perhaps improperly into Democratic copper that he's expanded his investigation and looks like he'll have a lot of work to do.
ron jenkins ▲ ● ▼		The White House has denied campaign contributions to Democrats influence the president on foreign policy decisions.
ron jenkins ▲ ● ▼		This is USA Radio News.
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ron jenkins ▲ ● ▼		Row upon row of parking meters are standing headless in Washington, D.C. Connie Long explains.
unidentified		Citizens in Washington, D.C. have had enough.
		They are decapitating parking meters.
		Many of the expensive meters are headless.
		Vandals have destroyed them, so drivers are able to park for free.
		It's part of a citizen's revolt.
		In a bankrupt city where nearly nothing works, the parking meter police are the most efficient force.
		Citizens are unprotected, and violent crimes go unprosecuted.
		But if a driver is a few minutes late, a ticket is issued.
		Tony Lawn, USA Radio News, Washington.
ron jenkins ▲ ● ▼		A supplier strike that could have crippled General Motors truck and sports utility production has been averted.
		A last-minute deal was reached before Monday morning's 7 a.m. strike deadline.
		That tentative agreement covers 7,200 United Auto Workers Union employees at five American Axel and manufacturing plants.
		Ron Jenkins on the USA Radio Network.
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		At the IRS, we want to help.
		In fact, that's why we're here.
		Thank you.
		Thank you.
		While Art Bell is resting, recovering from the cold he caught flying home from Mexico, Chancellor Broadcasting Company presents Vintage Art Bell and his classic two-hour interview with Preston Nichols on the Montauk Experiment.
		It's a dandy in one of Art's all-time favorite shows.
		And now, our number two of the two-hour interview with Preston Nichols on the Montauk Experiment.
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		To get that which you cannot otherwise get.
		In other words, we have so many good photographs and articles like this medical study on the internet, on the webpage, that we know all of you don't have computers by a long shot.
		So we publish all of this in a newsletter as well.
		In addition to things you cannot get on the website, in-depth interviews with some guests that we have on the air, with facts and information that go well beyond what we have on the air.
		It's called the Art Bell After Dark newsletter.
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		Back to Preston Nichols in the Montauk Project.
		Preston, are you there?
preston nichols ▲ ● ▼		Yep.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Good.
		I've got a number of questions for you, Preston, faxed in, and then we'll get to the telephones.
		Art, I would like to ask Preston whether there is a possibility that the occurrences at Amityville, New York could somehow be related to the Montauk Project.
		I got this thought while reading his book, Montauk Revisited.
		That's your book?
preston nichols ▲ ● ▼		Yep.
preston nichols ▲ ● ▼		You mean the Amityville Horror?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, that's right.
preston nichols ▲ ● ▼		I don't know.
		I was involved as a parapsychology researcher years ago, and we really couldn't tie much of anything to that house.
		That's the only statement I'll make on it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You were there?
unidentified		Mm-hmm.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, you were at Amityville?
preston nichols ▲ ● ▼		I was about 10 miles west of here.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Very briefly, let's take a sidetrack because that's fascinating.
		What did you find at Amityville?
		You know, I've seen the movie.
		I don't know how much relationship that has to what really happened.
preston nichols ▲ ● ▼		Well, we checked the heat.
		We checked the heat differentials.
		We checked the static charges.
		We checked the magnetic anomalies, we didn't find anything, we didn't find anything to back up the bugs, we didn't find anything to back up the bleeding walls.
		I myself feel that this is something that maybe there was a genuine haunting, but the fellow that wrote the book just blew this thing way out of proportion.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
preston nichols ▲ ● ▼		Because he couldn't find anything to back it up.
preston nichols ▲ ● ▼		I was involved in a team of parapsychologists that was called in to investigate it.
unidentified		All right.
preston nichols ▲ ● ▼		There's even rumors of an Indian burial ground under the house.
		Who knows what really happened there?
		I don't know.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Dear Art, I wonder if you would ask your guest if the super collider was in any way planned to be used with the project he was working on, Montauk.
preston nichols ▲ ● ▼		No, because the Super Collider came afterwards, although we have been getting a lot of information lately that they are using particle accelerators as particle beam weapons, of course, a particle beam power source, or a particle beam amplifier.
		This is where they use particles going through the velocity of light doing the mass energy conversion based upon E equals Mc squared.
		I will tell the public that the physicists have reached the speed of light with particles and that they today are using this as a power source or a power amplifier.
		Imagine a power amplifier that can tap the power of a nuclear bomb literally.
		This may be where they got all the power to bend space and time at Montauk.
		We know there was a particle accelerator and I believe it's active today because once myself and other people walking over it got dosed with some sort of radiation.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, I know this.
preston nichols ▲ ● ▼		I've got a nuclear radiation sickness for a while.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Preston, I know this, that they have considered using nuclear explosions or controlled explosions in satellites to focus beams.
unidentified		Is that?
preston nichols ▲ ● ▼		To focus the laser.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah.
preston nichols ▲ ● ▼		Yeah.
		I've read the same thing.
		That's supposedly a Star Wars weapon.
		We really don't need that.
		All we've got to do is accelerate particles to see.
		They do it by starting out with a large accelerator, dumping into a smaller one, into a smaller one yet.
		And each time you go to a smaller and smaller one, the velocity just goes up.
		Remember, as you bring the particles closer in a circle, what happens, the momentum makes them go faster and faster.
		So at some point, you're going to reach C, the speed of light.
		And magical things happen when you reach the speed of light.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, what about surpassing it?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Is it possible?
preston nichols ▲ ● ▼		Not in this dimension.
		So that in effect, You cannot surpass the speed of light within our reference frame.
		You're going to surpass the speed of light.
		You've got to do it in another reference frame relative to ours.
		And I say, I believe it's possible to go past it, but not in our reality as we know it.
		You've got to warp into another reality to go past the speed of light relative to us here.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
		Listen, this comes from St. Louis, Missouri.
		Please ask Mr. Nichols if there's a way that anybody can render himself or herself impervious to mind control by any outside force or protection.
preston nichols ▲ ● ▼		Well, what you have to do is you have to consider the level of consciousness and awareness this thing is operating at, and you've just got to raise your level of awareness above that.
		The mind, if it's aware of what's going on, the mind can automatically protect against this.
		That's part of why I'm putting this information out, to let people know what's going on, so they've got an idea of how to protect themselves on a subconscious level.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You're saying then, in effect, that you're...
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So in effect, you can protect yourself with your own will.
preston nichols ▲ ● ▼		Right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, I've got it.
preston nichols ▲ ● ▼		This is a message of the new age, essentially.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So the new age is mixed in with all of this.
preston nichols ▲ ● ▼		Oh, yes.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Very definitely.
preston nichols ▲ ● ▼		This is the application of new age metaphysical principles to technology.
preston nichols ▲ ● ▼		This is what we're talking about.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, let us go to the telephones and see what's out there.
		For Preston Nichols on the wildcard line, you're on the air.
		Hi, where are you calling from, please?
bourbon in missouri ▲ ● ▼		I'm calling from Bourbon, Missouri.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Bourbon, Missouri.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Turn your radio off, sir.
unidentified		You have it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay, you got it?
bourbon in missouri ▲ ● ▼		Yeah.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
		You're on the air with Preston Nichols.
		Go ahead.
bourbon in missouri ▲ ● ▼		Okay, sure.
bourbon in missouri ▲ ● ▼		Hello, Preston?
preston nichols ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
bourbon in missouri ▲ ● ▼		Excuse me.
preston nichols ▲ ● ▼		You got the same call problem I got.
bourbon in missouri ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, I know.
bourbon in missouri ▲ ● ▼		It's the late nighttime in the early spring atmosphere, okay?
preston nichols ▲ ● ▼		It's terrible, isn't it?
bourbon in missouri ▲ ● ▼		Yes, it is.
		Holland is terrible.
		Anyway, I wonder if you ever heard of a guy named Edward Teller.
unidentified		Yeah.
bourbon in missouri ▲ ● ▼		Okay.
bourbon in missouri ▲ ● ▼		Have you ever read a book on the astrometrical universe?
unidentified		Mm-hmm.
bourbon in missouri ▲ ● ▼		Okay.
		And then there you realize that he talks about the unlimited power that is available through the antimatter.
		And this is a man who's very credible because he invented the, was largely responsible for the invention of the atomic bomb.
preston nichols ▲ ● ▼		And he's also a rocket scientist.
bourbon in missouri ▲ ● ▼		And he's also a rocket scientist.
		That's absolutely correct.
		But we also know, you and I know anyway, and I don't know how many other people know, but he was also instrumental in some of the accelerators where they actually created antimatter.
preston nichols ▲ ● ▼		Very true.
bourbon in missouri ▲ ● ▼		And when you have antimatter meet real matter, you have 100% conversion of energy.
preston nichols ▲ ● ▼		Right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's not good.
preston nichols ▲ ● ▼		Well, that can be quite useful.
bourbon in missouri ▲ ● ▼		But it can be quite useful.
bourbon in missouri ▲ ● ▼		And the fact of the matter is that you have an unlimited power source.
preston nichols ▲ ● ▼		Very true.
bourbon in missouri ▲ ● ▼		When you consider the basic equation of E is equal to M C squared.
preston nichols ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, we just heard that a minute ago.
bourbon in missouri ▲ ● ▼		That's right.
		You have a tremendous amount of fire that is available in That's right.
		And When you have that much power.
preston nichols ▲ ● ▼		Something like a megawatt.
bourbon in missouri ▲ ● ▼		That's right.
		And when you have that much power, you could consider what one ounce of real matter versus one ounce of antimatter could do.
		And somewhere in our future, this is our new power system.
preston nichols ▲ ● ▼		I think in certain spectrums, this is our power source today.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You think it's already being utilized?
preston nichols ▲ ● ▼		Oh, yeah.
preston nichols ▲ ● ▼		I've seen evidence of it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You know, they talk about the danger of a nuclear plant going south and a meltdown, but if you...
		Well, that was my question, President.
		If one of these were to go south, it seems to me the planet would sort of blink out.
preston nichols ▲ ● ▼		It might.
		We've often been, you know, friends of mine and myself, the nuclear physicists, have often been joking.
		Well, someday we'll say, gee, there used to be nice land out at Montauk.
		The particle accelerator went south, and now there's a black hole there.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, exactly.
preston nichols ▲ ● ▼		Well, the thing is, most of these accelerators, from what I understand, I'm not a nuclear physicist, but I know three of them.
		They tell me that they use neutrons.
		I think we're all well aware of neutron radiation.
		Yes.
		And a nuclear medicine doctor that checked me out said that most likely I got hit with neutron radiation.
		Probably what happened as I was walking over the accelerator, yes, they allow you to walk over the damn thing.
		They must have had a burst in the past and it made a burst of neutron radiation.
		And we all got it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I see.
preston nichols ▲ ● ▼		We all had bitchy sores and sickness and felt disoriented for a couple of days afterwards.
		They're one of these nice guys that they don't shut off the area where the accelerator is.
		They let you walk around that.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, on the wildcard line, you're on the air with Preston Nichols.
unidentified		Good evening.
		Good evening.
		Sir, I hope you'll bear with me and give me as much time as you did your last caller.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, I don't know.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It depends on what you've got to say.
unidentified		A couple of questions there.
		Hey, Preston?
		Mm-hmm.
		Okay, uh, this things you've been talking about now, okay, it kind of relates back to where the Jews...
art bell ▲ ● ▼		On the wildcard line, you're on the air.
		Hello.
		Would have been on the air.
		Let me see.
		Let's go to the toll-free line.
		You're on the air.
		Good morning.
unidentified		Oh, good evening, Art.
		Yes, sir.
		I had a question for your guest.
		Before the last commercial break, he spoke briefly about him and some of his colleagues turning against this project because things were getting, he said, evil.
		If you could have him expand on that and tell us a little bit more about exactly what he meant by the evil nature the project was taking.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Where are you, please?
unidentified		All right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Where are you?
unidentified		I'm in St. Louis, Missouri.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		St. Louis.
		All right.
		Expand on the evil part of your statement, if you would.
preston nichols ▲ ● ▼		Well, I feel the whole mind control aspect of the thing is evil.
		Man is meant to have a free mind, not to be dominated.
		Also, they were working in maneuvering and manipulating time so certain people would have power that probably shouldn't have power, or the power group would get more power and they get more oppressive and the whole nine yards of this.
		Well, I guess so.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Do you remember the old, Preston?
		You remember the old expression, once they've seen something or another, Pyrie, how are you going to keep them down on the farm?
		Once they've experimented with mind control or imagine or know they can control minds, how are you ever going to stop them?
preston nichols ▲ ● ▼		I don't know.
preston nichols ▲ ● ▼		The only way to see you stopping them is get the population aware enough that it just doesn't work.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Is there any way that a person could know, just as a question, that their mind is being controlled?
preston nichols ▲ ● ▼		I guess if you start doing things out of character, that would be a good sign of it.
		Also, if you had the monitoring equipment, if you knew what to listen for, if you were educated in radio like you and I are, you could probably pick this up on a radio and notice the very sharp, edgy tones that would appear on your radio.
		I can tune in and listen and hear the stuff.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
		On the first time caller line, you're on the air with Preston Nichols.
		Hello?
unidentified		Yes, I have two questions.
unidentified		One of them I was interested in, Al Delick talked about age regression, and I was interested if Preston Nichols knew exactly how to pull this off.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, where are you, sir?
unidentified		St. Louis, Missouri.
unidentified		And I have one more question.
preston nichols ▲ ● ▼		All right.
unidentified		I have a book called Mind Machines You Can Build by D. Harry Stein.
unidentified		And in the book, it's a little diagram on an instrument he called a wishing machine.
preston nichols ▲ ● ▼		A what machine?
unidentified		A wishing machine.
preston nichols ▲ ● ▼		Wishing?
unidentified		Yes, it uses the device.
		He says that it was, I guess, originally built back in the 40s.
		And he says he uses an audio amplifier, a couple of copper plates, an antenna, a six-volt battery, and a couple other little simple things like that.
		And he said if you would use a picture and you would put it in between the two copper plates.
preston nichols ▲ ● ▼		This sounds like a radiotics device.
unidentified		Maybe so.
		Like I said, the name of the book is Mind Machines You Can Build.
		But with this device, they said at long distances, they could, like a 20-acre cornfield that was infested with bugs or whatever, that they would have a 90% kill rate just by consciously focusing on the pitch.
preston nichols ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, this is typical radionics.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, thank you.
preston nichols ▲ ● ▼		All right, to answer the man's first question.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Age regression.
preston nichols ▲ ● ▼		Age.
preston nichols ▲ ● ▼		Not age, age, AGE, what we're talking about.
unidentified		Right.
preston nichols ▲ ● ▼		I'm not going to say this is impossible because we have theories today which are saying that there's an energy lattice, a energetic replication of the DNA of the human being, which is magnetically coupled into a genome, into the DNA, and that there are many levels of DNA.
		And aging is essentially the loss of control of the differentiation of the DNA from the quantum electromagnetic pattern that we're calling the lattice.
		If you could somehow restore this control, theoretically you could grow back to whatever portion of the DNA you would activate.
		Now, Al speaks of the age regress back to a one-year-old baby.
		I don't know whether or not the DNA is still there for that.
unidentified		If it is, I don't think it's impossible to do.
preston nichols ▲ ● ▼		Now, also, I run into one other person that the only thing that explains what's happened to him, and he seems hopeful, I feel, is some sort of age regression.
		Now, I have not heard reports from other sources on this.
		See, when I hear a report like this, I consider where it's coming from, and I like to get maybe five or six reports saying, yes, age regression has happened.
		I haven't had it.
		I've only had Albiolik himself, one other source which I don't consider at all credible, and now the one we run into very recently.
		So, again, I'm not going to say it's impossible, but also I think it's a quite fantastic story that I wish was true.
		I'd like to have it myself.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, exactly.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Look, if it is possible to travel in time.
preston nichols ▲ ● ▼		And I don't know how to do age regression anymore.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Right, I was going to say, I was going to ask you, Preston, if it's possible to travel in time and I went back to, say, 1950, my chronological age at the end of the travel would still be what it is at the moment just roughly the moment I left, wouldn't it?
preston nichols ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, exactly.
preston nichols ▲ ● ▼		This is why I think if you're going to do age regression, you've got to do something through the DNA.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Through the DNA.
preston nichols ▲ ● ▼		Somehow change the differentiation to go back to the genome that you were replicating when you were like 20 years old, let's say.
unidentified		Well, that would be a...
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That would be a very delicate genetic manipulation to me, wouldn't it?
preston nichols ▲ ● ▼		It may be electromagnetic.
		Electromagnetic.
		Because it's being suggested by a lot of learned geneticists that Dr. Glenn Ryan is showing a lot of research that subtle or quantum electromagnetic waves do affect the way the double helix is wrapped up.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Preston, hold it right there.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		We'll be back after the bottom of the hour break.
unidentified		Good boy.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Preston Nichols is my guest.
unidentified		The End Stay tuned for more of the Best of Art Bell right after a word from your local sponsors.
		The Best of Art Bell This is the CBC Radio Network.
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		Well, listen to what Clem Grabner of Fairfax, Virginia has to say about his amazing walk-behind VR field and brush mower.
preston nichols ▲ ● ▼		We have 18 acres on the Shenandoah.
preston nichols ▲ ● ▼		we camped there we used to have this one portion brush hogged and then it got so extensive that I think it paid for its stuff the first year.
unidentified		If you're gone a couple weeks, the place is up to your knees again.
		So it's been a real pleasure to have it.
		Most of it you can't cut with a regular mower.
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		It's very reliable.
		I mean, it's got a good mower on it.
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		Just call toll-free 1-800-FIELD-13.
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		Well, I volunteer at the school, you know, and I'd see her sometimes with a rough crowd, but she wouldn't think of it.
		Most people are afraid of me.
		They don't even talk to me.
		It's not right, a kid like that, hanging around with nothing to do.
		She just walked right up to me and said, I like your work.
preston nichols ▲ ● ▼		Nobody's ever said that to me before.
unidentified		I want to see you paint something, I told her.
		And that's all it took.
		She got me to do it.
		I like it, because painting makes me look at things different.
		Always, kids, helping you make a difference.
		CBC, Chancellor Broadcasting Company, for the strange and unusual, it's Dreamland with Art Bell.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		What do we discuss on Dreamland?
		Two fascinating areas.
		Is there life after death and are we alone in the universe?
		Two ultimate questions mankind's been trying to answer for thousands of years.
		We'll be talking about it this week right here on Dreamland.
unidentified		Dreamland.
		While Art Bell is resting, recovering from the cold he caught flying home from Mexico, Chancellor Broadcasting Company presents Vintage Art Bell and his classic two-hour interview with Preston Nichols on the Montauk Experiment.
		It's a dandy in one of Art's all-time favorite shows.
		And now, hour number two of the two-hour interview with Preston Nichols on the Montauk Experiment.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		On the wildcard line, you're on the air with Preston Nichols.
unidentified		Hello.
unidentified		Hello, how's it going tonight?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay, sir.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Where are you?
unidentified		I am in Kansas City, Missouri, Art.
preston nichols ▲ ● ▼		Okay.
unidentified		Love your show.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Thank you.
unidentified		He's just listening and really don't have too much to say other than enjoying your show.
unidentified		Keep up what you're doing.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Sir, thank you very much for the call.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		On the first-time caller line, you're on the air with Preston Nichols.
unidentified		Hello.
preston nichols ▲ ● ▼		Yes, hi, Art.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Hello, sir.
preston nichols ▲ ● ▼		Yes, I'm from Long Island originally, and I just recently moved about a year and a half ago.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Where are you now?
preston nichols ▲ ● ▼		I'm in Youngstown, Ohio.
		Okay.
		And now I'm 28 years old, and I'm intelligent.
		I know for a fact that I've got a 138 IQ, borderline genius.
		Yet at the same time, I've always wondered why I was never in tune with what was going on politically.
		I never could quite understand the political process.
		You're not the only one.
unidentified		Yeah.
preston nichols ▲ ● ▼		You know, I'm from Suffolk County.
		I'm from Huntington.
		And I moved in, it was July of 81, of 91, rather.
unidentified		July of 91, I moved from Suffolk County.
preston nichols ▲ ● ▼		I moved into Elmont in Nassau.
preston nichols ▲ ● ▼		That was where I had my...
unidentified		Yeah.
preston nichols ▲ ● ▼		That was where I first started listening to political commentary on talk radio.
unidentified		After that, I moved to New Orleans, and I really started to get involved.
preston nichols ▲ ● ▼		I started to know what was going on.
preston nichols ▲ ● ▼		But what's the question?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, what is the question?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		How does this relate to my guess, sir?
unidentified		Well, what I'm saying is, well, you're talking about mind control.
unidentified		As fantastic as it sounds, it's starting to make a little bit of sense to me.
preston nichols ▲ ● ▼		I don't know.
		This is what a lot of people say because they fix blind.
		There's a lot going on.
		We'll fix this.
		Art was talking about the people just all of a sudden shooting.
unidentified		It confounds me how I was so blind until I moved out of Suffolk County, until I moved off of Long Island, really.
unidentified		Exactly.
preston nichols ▲ ● ▼		It just sounds so fantastic.
unidentified		And Art, I can tell by your voice, by the entire conversation you've been having, it just sounds so fantastic.
		But it makes sense.
		I don't know.
preston nichols ▲ ● ▼		Well, I think that's been real science, sir.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, I have learned long ago not to stick up my nose at what appears to be fantastic because I've been surprised too many times.
		And I'm sure of this, Preston, that we as human beings, our government, whoever, the powers that be, would have great interest in mind control.
		And if they're not working on it, I think that would be more fantastic than believing that they are working on it.
		I mean, it's that simple.
preston nichols ▲ ● ▼		Well, I'd like to say at this point that if someone comes and asks me how much the legend is true, I would tell them the Philadelphia experiment is true, the mind control aspirations, the mind control part of the project is probably 90-odd percent correct.
		I'm just not sure exactly how well the time tunnel works.
		That would be my assessment, you know, my assessment of how successful they were.
		So I thoroughly believe the mind control works, and it's thoroughly possible.
		The only thing is they could not at that time work on mass population using the particle beam system that interacts with the brain directly.
		You don't need a signature anymore.
		Using the particle beam system.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So you're saying that mass mind control is not necessarily possible?
preston nichols ▲ ● ▼		Today it is.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Today it is.
preston nichols ▲ ● ▼		Today it is because you see before you used to go in with a signature to the non-physical mind.
preston nichols ▲ ● ▼		Today they're using a particle beam to modulate the particle interchange between the synaptic interchanges in the brain through the read patterns or the modulate patterns on the brain.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, boy.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So you're saying they could be sending out signals that are actually controlling the masses.
preston nichols ▲ ● ▼		Mm-hmm.
preston nichols ▲ ● ▼		Synaptic.
unidentified		Wow.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Wonderful.
preston nichols ▲ ● ▼		Just consider.
		What is the synaptic interchange?
		It's essentially ionic, and what is ionic?
		Yes, no, that's true.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		No, it's absolutely true.
preston nichols ▲ ● ▼		If you can create interference from one particle to another particle, all right, I've got a caller.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		On the wildcard line, you're on the air with Preston Nichols.
unidentified		Hello.
unidentified		Hello.
preston nichols ▲ ● ▼		I'm calling for Art Bell.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, that's me.
unidentified		Art?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
unidentified		This is Bob.
		Dunno and Sandina, Maria, California.
		KSMA.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		740?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, sir.
preston nichols ▲ ● ▼		Good morning, sir.
preston nichols ▲ ● ▼		I've been trying to call you.
unidentified		I'm a long time listener, first-time caller.
preston nichols ▲ ● ▼		Okay.
unidentified		You got a copy on me, sir?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I hear you fine.
unidentified		Okay, okay.
		I had a complaint, but now I don't think I want to complain.
		I'd just like to talk to you and share a little of my situation with you, if I might.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, I have a guest, sir.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Are you calling for my guests?
preston nichols ▲ ● ▼		No, I was just calling.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, well, thank you very much, but please call back at another time.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And on the toll-free line, you're on the air with Preston Nichols.
unidentified		Good evening.
unidentified		Yeah.
preston nichols ▲ ● ▼		Hello?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Hello?
unidentified		Yeah, I just wondered if you can tell me he advertised a shortwave radio the other night, and I didn't get the telephone number.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, I'll give it to you.
		1-800-522-8863.
		1-800-522-8863.
		On the wildcard line, you're on the air with Preston Nichols.
preston nichols ▲ ● ▼		Hello.
unidentified		Oh, hello, Art.
unidentified		This is Lance from Seattle KBI.
preston nichols ▲ ● ▼		Okay.
unidentified		That man control device that he's talking about is manufactured here.
		It's in a suitcase.
		It's like a small suitcase, and it says on the side of it for animal control use only.
		And when it's used for people control, you can call the FCC and file a complaint, and they know all about it.
		It's nothing new.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, it sure is new to me.
unidentified		Well, it's been around since about 80.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		What is it, sir?
unidentified		Well, it just focuses on a specific part of the brain, and then your mind starts to look in that area, and you can see things in your own mind and hear things.
		It sounds like you're in a room full of people, and there's nobody around.
		Or you can see eyes blinking in front of you and all kinds of things.
		It's all in your own mind.
		It's not outside your mind like Holiday ma'am.
		But it does exist, and it doesn't take anything except called the FCC to find out.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, I've never seen one.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I've never heard of one.
unidentified		Well, just thought I'd add it to your program.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, thank you.
preston nichols ▲ ● ▼		I've never.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Have you heard of such thing?
preston nichols ▲ ● ▼		I've heard rumors of it.
		I've heard rumors that this has been developing years.
		See, what they're working there, that's mood control more than anything, I think.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I know, Preston, that there's been a lot of research done on the effect of low frequencies on human beings.
preston nichols ▲ ● ▼		Exactly.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Is that what he's talking about?
preston nichols ▲ ● ▼		Well, what he's saying is it can transmit the effect of a whole room full of people, the eyes, the head of you.
		All this might be doing is fragmenting your own memories, working directly physically into the brain.
		And this could be done with some sort of ELF-type device.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
		What about the transmissions made by the middle part of our country?
		Very powerful ELF transmissions to our submarines.
preston nichols ▲ ● ▼		I forget what that's called.
preston nichols ▲ ● ▼		I know what you're talking about.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I was just wondering if you think that kind of level of low-frequency transmission could affect biological entities that are close to the source.
preston nichols ▲ ● ▼		That appears to be mostly sinusoidal teletype-type modulation.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Right.
preston nichols ▲ ● ▼		It's not direct on and off.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So without the pulsing, you don't think there'd be a lot of effects?
unidentified		No.
unidentified		All right.
preston nichols ▲ ● ▼		Remember, the mind itself, the brain will automatically even out a change in level.
preston nichols ▲ ● ▼		You've got to change the level so fast that the DC restoration in the neurological system doesn't work.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Can't deal with it.
		All right, on the wildcard line, you're on the air with Preston Nichols.
		Good morning.
unidentified		Hello, is Preston Nichols there?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, right here, sir.
unidentified		Okay, you talk about time travel, right?
preston nichols ▲ ● ▼		Yep.
unidentified		Okay.
		Well, I believe in time travel.
		You know, time travel happens in your psychic ability, your dreams?
preston nichols ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, some people believe that.
unidentified		Okay, now how can they apply this to technology and science and stuff?
preston nichols ▲ ● ▼		Essentially, by taking what a person could dream or generating a virtual reality and transmitting it through a very powerful transmitter and bringing it into our physical reality.
unidentified		Was it like a strong electromagnetism thing, you know, projected from the brain itself?
preston nichols ▲ ● ▼		So was emanation from the human being projected through a very powerful electromagnetic transmitter?
unidentified		Yes, it was.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, sir, thank you.
		That's exactly how it was done.
		In other words, the human brain does generate a signal.
		It is a very weak signal normally, isn't it?
preston nichols ▲ ● ▼		It's actually a virtual state signal.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It's what?
preston nichols ▲ ● ▼		It's what we call a quantum wave.
		It does not fully exist in our reality.
		It exists in the reality that the imaginary solutions in our mathematics, you know, the sine functions represent.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You're starting to lose me, Preston.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Reduce that so I can understand it.
preston nichols ▲ ● ▼		Well, you know, when you do a complex calculation, the figure phase angle, you get sine, cosine function, real-world imaginary functions.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
preston nichols ▲ ● ▼		The human emanations are based upon the imaginary functions, not the real.
		But you're 100% right.
		The real world emanations from a human being are very weak, but the imaginary world emanations are very strong.
		This is why you need typically vacuum potential to detect this stuff.
		This is why you're better off with an older vacuum-tooth receiver.
		And, of course, I think you're well aware of the debate over which works better.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I certainly am, yes.
		On the wildcard line, you're on the air with Preston Nichols.
		Hello.
unidentified		Marty, what about the nuclear waste?
unidentified		What about the nuclear waste?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, I don't think we're going to deal with that one.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		On the wildcard line, you're on the air with Treston Nichols.
preston nichols ▲ ● ▼		Hello.
unidentified		Radio Free America.
		Hello.
		Hello, Mr. Nichols.
		How are you doing?
preston nichols ▲ ● ▼		Okay.
unidentified		Art, I tell you what, you know, I wouldn't have bought this for a second if there wasn't something really weird going on in the world today.
		But my question is, and Linda Thompson talked about the holograph, and you were talking about cracking into the underworld.
		Could this be described as hell?
preston nichols ▲ ● ▼		Hell is whenever you make it.
unidentified		Well, I'm talking about the biblical aspects of what you're describing in the underworld.
unidentified		And have you ever seen any alien beings?
preston nichols ▲ ● ▼		All right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Trust them, have you?
preston nichols ▲ ● ▼		Yes, I've seen some alien beings.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You have?
preston nichols ▲ ● ▼		Who or what they are beat the hell out of me?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		What have you seen?
		Exactly.
		And how and where?
preston nichols ▲ ● ▼		At Montauk, they had a little creature that looked all the world like the little greys as described by Whitley Straver.
unidentified		Oh?
preston nichols ▲ ● ▼		A four-foot-pall, and they sunk to high heavens.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Stunk?
preston nichols ▲ ● ▼		And then we had a thing that resembled a cross between a lizard and a human being.
preston nichols ▲ ● ▼		What it was, I really don't know.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I have heard that description before, too.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Kind of reptilian.
unidentified		Yeah.
preston nichols ▲ ● ▼		The closest thing, there was an old Star Trek episode where Captain Jerk bought something called a gorn that sort of looked like what I saw at Montfort.
		Now, I will say, I don't drink.
		I don't use drugs.
		I don't do any of that stuff.
		I also don't hallucinate.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Have you ever been under the care of a psychiatrist?
unidentified		Nope.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		No?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, I just had to add that one in there.
unidentified		That's a valid question.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, I mean, some of this, you've got to admit, Preston, it's wild stuff.
preston nichols ▲ ● ▼		I know it's wild stuff, but this is why I doubted my own sanity at times myself.
		I was a conclusion that's not me.
		I was seeing this club reel.
		Also, a lot of the other people of Montfaux saw the same thing and described exactly the same.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		How many other people have corroborated what you're saying, or even parts, substantial parts of what you're saying?
preston nichols ▲ ● ▼		Oh, about 30-odd people.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		30-odd people.
		All right.
		On the toll-free line, you're on the air with Preston Nichols.
		Hello.
unidentified		Hi, I'm Mr. Bell.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Hi, where are you, please?
preston nichols ▲ ● ▼		I'm calling from New Orleans.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		New Orleans, Louisiana, okay.
unidentified		Yeah.
unidentified		I did want to talk a little bit about the gun issue, but okay?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, that's not what we're talking about right now, sir.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I've got a guest.
unidentified		Oh, I didn't know because your show's not on yet.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I've seen it.
unidentified		I'm on our radio.
		All right.
		I'll check back another time.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, I appreciate it.
		Thank you.
		That's New Orleans, Louisiana, about to come on.
		On the wildcard line, you're on the air with Treston Nichols.
unidentified		Hello.
		Yeah, Ark.
		I'm curious.
		These kind of projects have to involve great deals of money.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		No doubt about it.
preston nichols ▲ ● ▼		No doubt, yes.
preston nichols ▲ ● ▼		And they say to solve all mysteries, you follow the money trail.
unidentified		True.
preston nichols ▲ ● ▼		Isn't anybody checking what's going on?
unidentified		I mean, if Area 51 exists, there's got to be billions going into that.
unidentified		And if he's talking, there's got to be billions going into this.
preston nichols ▲ ● ▼		Is anybody keeping track of the money?
unidentified		Well, anyone that's coming down to are the senators aware of this?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, all right.
		Hold on a second.
		That's a good question.
		All I can tell you is this.
		I don't know about what Preston's saying, but I can tell you darn well, Area 51 does exist.
		Billions do go into it.
		And that's a fact.
		And so, Preston, what about the money angle in Montauk?
preston nichols ▲ ● ▼		Well, we had an interest from the office of Senator Barry Goldwater, quite a few in the middle 80s.
		And I was told that they could not trace any congressional appropriations for the Montauk project.
		Now, I was handed a list of companies here on Long Island that are all either reorganized or out of business today.
		The interesting thing to note is right after this happened, about six months to a year later, as far as what they call core audits, they said they were looking for a $250 toilet fee.
		Why would they go ask the worker on the floor, what are you working on?
		The only reason they'd ask the worker on the floor, what are you working on, is they're looking for hidden projects.
		Montauk was a hidden project.
		There's rumors that the Montauk project was financed by gold smuggled from the Nazis.
		We really don't know.
		This is something that Al Delick has suggested.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
		Preston, hold on a moment.
		We'll be right back to you.
		My guest is Preston Nichols.
		He's talking about the Montauk project.
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		That's 1-800-562-6438.
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		Or if you can, you're too weird for me.
		So the next best thing, if you don't happen to have the Internet and you are not privy to the photographs we put up there and the information, then you can get it in the Art Bell After Dark newsletter month by month by month.
		Twelve issues every year, dozens of color internet photographs, excellent articles.
		As a matter of fact, really, articles that interview people that I have interviewed that go beyond the interviews that I did.
		For example, coming up Joyce Riley, Dr. Leonard Horowitz, Major Ed Dames, interviews that go beyond what I have done here on the air in terms of picking questions and so forth that I didn't ask.
		So you'll find all kinds of things in our newsletter, and to get our newsletter, it's only a phone call away.
		1-800-917-4278 is the number.
		It's a good 24 hours a day, including now.
		1-800-917-4278.
		Just to ask about the Artville Afterhark newsletter.
		Back now to Preston Nichols.
		Preston, you know, there are a lot of people listening or who would fax me or write to me or you and would say you're crazy as a loon.
		What would you say to them?
		How would you defend that?
		Now, technically, you have a lot of details, and I am impressed by that, but some of it is, quite admittedly, pretty fantastic stuff.
preston nichols ▲ ● ▼		It's very fantastic stuff.
preston nichols ▲ ● ▼		The first thing I would mention is people used to say to me, they remembered me from the Montpaup date.
unidentified		I didn't remember them until I broke the memory blocks I had.
preston nichols ▲ ● ▼		This stuff is highly possible.
		We have a lot of witnesses.
		I think we have to look at can a thousand Frenchmen be wrong.
		We have no real-world documentation, evidence proof.
		The only proof we have is that they're doing something strange even to this day.
		And we were talking a 420 to 460 megahertz broadcast.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's right.
preston nichols ▲ ● ▼		And we're still finding emanations in the same frequency range to this day.
		I first got excited thinking I was taking up the signal out of time from the 70s and the 80s, but I came to realize, no, this is generated today.
		If they're doing something like this today, sending the specs, sending out a very strong ELS signal that I picked up on coils as pulses without a carrier and the carrier, if they're still sending out, that means the equipment I'm describing is there to this day producing signal.
		And it probably was there in the 70s and the 80s, and they probably were fighting back then.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, it also raises an awful lot of questions.
		Well, for example, Brus, not just the shootings, the mindless headshaker shootings that are going on, but society's behavior in general is very strange indeed and is deteriorating, in my view, in the view of most others who stand back and view it.
		Things are out of control.
		The state of civilization is less.
		People's tempers are short.
		And when it's the worst case, they're picking up guns and shooting each other.
preston nichols ▲ ● ▼		But how would you react if you had a hammer pounding on your head continuously?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You'd eventually get irritated and do something awful.
unidentified		Right.
preston nichols ▲ ● ▼		You've got to think of all this stuff that they're sending out into the ether, purposefully or accidentally, is like someone sitting tapping on your head with a hammer.
		Neurological system operates on a pseudo-random ordered pulse function.
		You read any activity, read any book on brain activity, that's the first thing they say.
		If you take the neurological signal out of a nerve, put it into an audio amplifier, it sounds like static.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		This is CBC.
unidentified		CBC.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		This is CBC.
unidentified		This is CBC.
		If you've missed any part of tonight's interviews with Al Belich or Preston Nichols and you'd like to have a copy on tape, dial toll-free 1-800-917-4278 and ask for tape number 97-0217C.
		The cost is $33.50 for all five hours without the commercial.

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