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June 20, 1993 - Art Bell

04:51:11

Coast to Coast AM with Art Bell - Al Bielek - Philadelphia Experiment

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al bielek

01:21:57

art bell

01:12:21

preston nichols

49:04

ron jenkins

08:45

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Speaker	Time	Text
unidentified		Tonight on the Best of Art Val, Chancellor Broadcasting presents Classic Art Val.
		We reach deep into the archives to 1993 for an all-time favorite show.
		Three hours of our fascinating and captivating interview with Al Belick, who details his personal experience with the Philadelphia Experiment.
		The show is from deep, deep, deep in the archives, the Clint Montauk Experiment.
		And now, hour number one.
		Featuring Art Bell and Al Belick on the Philadelphia Experiment.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Without any more delay, let's go talk with Mr. Belick in Phoenix.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And good morning.
unidentified		Alfred Belick?
preston nichols ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Welcome to the show.
al bielek ▲ ● ▼		Thank you very much.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I almost don't know where to start.
		I guess the best thing to do is first find out about you.
		Whatever we can.
		What is your background, Alfred?
al bielek ▲ ● ▼		Well, my background as Al Belick is that I was an electronic engineer.
		That's from 30 years from 1958 to 88, but that had no bearing, whatever, on the Philadelphia Experiment and my history with that.
		The history for the Philadelphia Experiment involving not only the USS Elbridge, but some earlier ships and experimentation goes back a long ways.
		It actually goes back to 1931, when the first experimental considerations of the possibility of making an object invisible We're engaged by Dr. Nikola Tesla, Dr. John Hutchinson of the University of Chicago, and a staff physicist by the name of Dr. Emil Kurtenow, all of whom were at that time at the University of Chicago.
		Tesla was a man who got around quite a bit, and unlike the stories which have been told about him being a recluse in this little room in the Hotel New Yorker for the last 12 years of his life, that was anything but true.
		He was very busy, perhaps busier the last 12 years of his life than in the previous period.
		But these three people were involved in the consideration of how do you make an object invisible.
		And this was what we would today call a feasibility study, and this took place at the University of Chicago for about
unidentified		three years.
al bielek ▲ ● ▼		And at that time I was moved to the then rather brand new Institute of Advanced Study at Princeton, New Jersey.
		And at that time it was a think tank, if you will, and it was perhaps the premier think tank of the world.
		Because the initial staffing, which started in 1933, involved people like Dr. John von Neumann,
		Herbert Einstein, Dr. Alexander, and Dr. Oswald Veblen.
		They were the four original staff members, and many other people came on board at various times after that.
		Tesla worked with them at the Institute, but he was never a staff member.
		He was one of the people who came and went, if you will.
		He was still maintaining a lot of other experimental work, a lot of other jobs he was doing.
		He was, in fact, a member of the team of RCA Corporation from the day of its inception in 1919 until he retired in 1939.
		In the last four years of his life, he was Vice President and Director of Engineering Worldwide for RCA Corporation.
		It's not a fact that it's well known.
		In fact, it is rather well, shall we say, swept under the rug.
		Because various interests don't want the public to know the position that Tesla actually held.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Al, a lot of the fictional accounts of invisibility, from the Invisible Man, which is a fairly recent movie, to the Philadelphia Experiment, and a number of others, all seem to deal with very high-energy electromagnetic fields.
al bielek ▲ ● ▼		That is correct.
		The original work involved electromagnetics, but it's actually electromagnetics going beyond the range of electromagnetics.
		And the work, when they transferred it to the Institute in 1934, went onward.
		In 1936, they had an experimental test, which was partly successful, but anything but fully successful.
		It gave them an idea of the fact that they were in the least going in the right direction.
		And by 1940, the Navy, in the meantime, had funded this project.
		Almost from the beginning, with some research funds from the Office of Naval Engineering.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		They were interested from a defense point of view, obviously.
al bielek ▲ ● ▼		That's correct.
		That is their object.
		And Franklin Delano Roosevelt was very interested in this project from the beginning because Tesla was an old friend of his.
		And that friendship goes back to World War I in 1917, when Roosevelt, then Undersecretary of the Navy, invited Tesla to do some war work for the government, which Tesla readily agreed to do.
		Tesla was, among other things, a patriot.
		He didn't believe in this country very strongly.
		And he did a great deal of work for the government.
		And then when the war was over, he became part of the new organization of RCA.
		There's a great deal of history for Tesla, which I could go into, but it's not germane, really, to the subject.
		In any case, they went on with the research work, and by 1940, they had a fully successful test at the Brooklyn Navy Yard, involving a small Navy ship, the Tender.
		And there were two ships adjacent, one starboard, one port, which carried most of the heavy equipment, and the balance of the equipment, the special coils and the antenna, were installed on the ship, which was to be made invisible.
		And the important point of that test was, while it was completely successful, there were no personnel on board.
		It was completely deserted insofar as any people, any personnel of any kind.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So they made a smaller ship disappear, and when?
unidentified		1940? 1940.
al bielek ▲ ● ▼		Late in the year, I was at the Brooklyn Navy Yard.
		With that test, they knew that they had a successful system.
		Everyone was elated, including the Navy, Franklin, Downer, Roosevelt, and of course, they immediately classified the project.
		Up to that point, it was an open research project conducted by the Institute of Advanced Study.
		It was not classified, and it was purely research conducted by the Institute with some Navy backing, Navy funds.
		Now Tesla was named the original director by Roosevelt in 1934, and Tesla remained director for this project until March of 1942.
		Now there's a lot more history in here, and I'm going to have to fill in and let you know how I got involved in this thing.
		I was not born albelic.
		I was born Edward Cameron, and that was in August 4th, 1916.
		Somewhat of a variance with my birth certificate is that I was born in March 1927.
		I was actually born in 1916.
		My father was Alexander Duncan Cameron Sr., who was a Navy man.
		He went into the Navy, since we can't find any records to show when he went in and when he left, estimated in 1910, because he was born in 1891.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Why is there this disparity in your birth certificate and your real age and real name?
al bielek ▲ ● ▼		Well, we have to get into the rest of the story to understand why.
		There was no secret about my history at that time, up through that entire period.
		Oh no, my brother, Duncan Cameron, was born about seven months after I was.
		Same father, different mother.
		Father was a, shall we say, a ladies' man.
		And he had quite a few under his wing.
		Two common-law marriages at that time, the first two wives, were not legal.
		But from that point on, they were legal.
		In any case, 1917, the war became a hot issue.
		He was called by the Navy to go to sea, and he abandoned the two women.
		And we were both raised by Auntie Cameron in Long Island.
		Auntie Arnold, actually, was her name, married.
		And we never saw a father except maybe once a year.
		We both had the advantage of a family with money.
		and a social position and we were admonished by father to go get a good education
		which in the depression years of course was probably the appropriate thing to do because
		there wasn't much else to do. So we did and we both acquired an education in physics and a PhD.
		I first went to Princeton then I was transferred to Harvard at Dr. Von Neumann's suggestion because
		I met him at Princeton for the PhD.
		from Harvard in the summer of 39, and my brother Duncan from the University of Edinburgh, Edinburgh, Scotland, in also the summer of 1939.
		By father's insistence and arrangement, we both joined the Navy in September 1939.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So you have a Ph.D.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		in physics?
al bielek ▲ ● ▼		Under the name of Edward Cameron.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I see.
al bielek ▲ ● ▼		Not as Al Belick.
		I have to stress that because of what happened later.
		So we both joined the Navy.
		We were given, shall we say, The 90-Day Wonder School treatment by the Navy for officers who were for special assignment.
		We were given commissions upon enlistment of Lieutenant J.G., which was quite standard at that time.
		And then in January 1940, we were assigned to the Institute, the Institute of Advanced Study, where we were brought up to speed on the project.
		We didn't know really what we were going to be assigned to, but we knew we were going to be on some special project.
		And that's how we became, both Duncan, my brother, and myself, became involved in the Philadelphia Experiment.
		It was not called the Philadelphia Experiment in the early stage.
		It was still known as Project Invisibility.
		Its correct name under the code name given by the Navy when they classified it was Project Rainbow.
		So we were brought on board at the Institute here in 1940 in January, and then they had the test in September, and then it was when they classified it and it became Project Rainbow.
		It was still Project Invisibility when we joined.
		After that, they set up offices in the Philadelphia Navy Yard.
		Of course, they had a lot of space there.
		And the classified aspects of this project there were continued at the Philadelphia Navy Yard.
		And of course, the project was also still continued at the Institute on the Princeton grounds.
		And the Institute was not part of the University.
		It was on University property.
		It was a totally separate entity.
		And a separate control, separate financing, and the whole nine yards.
		It was a separate entity.
		So the project was ongoing, and with a successful test, Roosevelt told Tesla he was giving him a somewhat larger ship to make invisible, literally, a battleship.
		And he said, you know, Tesla, if you can make that invisible, you can make anything invisible.
		So we proceeded to prepare for this, add a lot of water equipment, do a lot of further work, And I might add that at that time Tesla was, up until 1939, still involved with RCA and he only showed up in the project maybe once a week.
		I did meet him a couple of times.
		And he was ongoing still with his other lab research and lab work.
		He had not been a recluse by any means.
		I'll give you a quick thumbnail of what he had done in the period from 1931 onward when he was the alleged recluse twiddling his thumbs in the hotel room.
		In 1931, he had successfully produced a source of, shall we say, free power, which was successful enough that he converted a Piazzolla automobile to an electric drive with a 75-horse motor under the hood and a little black box he carried around with him, plugged into the dashboard when he wanted to go somewhere to demonstrate this car and its feasibility.
		He drove all over New York City, much to the elation of the press, and there was a lot of press coverage at the time.
		Eventually drove upstate New York, and all over New York State.
		And eventually the car was abandoned somewhere, as I do not know the history of what happened to the car.
		He was also working on such things as particle beam weapon systems.
		He had a successful one by 1935.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Now, I've heard a lot of this about Tesla, and I've always wondered,
		if Tesla had all of this incredible technology developed then,
		what happened to it?
		In other words, what happened to the documentation?
		He was a scientist.
		I presume he documented his work.
		Why is it all lost now?
al bielek ▲ ● ▼		It's not lost.
		It was, shall we say, swept under the rug here in the U.S.
		after he died.
		It was not lost at that time.
		He still had his laboratory going.
		He was in communication with other governments and scientists all over the world.
		The particle beam weapon system It's quite curious in itself.
		He offered it to the United States.
		He went through a process known as the Military Border Review.
		And they were at first in favor of it, but the final vote cast it out.
		They were not, in terms of the final vote on it, interested.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, that's Star Wars today.
al bielek ▲ ● ▼		What I was saying about Tesla and the particle beam weapon system.
		He offered it to Canada at that time in 1935 approximately and they turned it down.
		It was offered to England not once but many times in 1935-39 and they turned it down.
		They offered it to Russia in 1935 and they bought it.
		This is not well known but they bought a working model and a U.S. consultancy for $25,000 cash.
		A friend of mine here in Phoenix who had access to the Russian embassy in recent years found
		that story himself and the Russians admitted that yes they did purchase the U.S. consultancy.
		The working model from Tesla in 1935, but it was lost during the war years with all the bombing, shelling, and everything else that went on during the war years.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Now, how was enough energy available at that time prior to nuclear power for a particle beam weapon?
al bielek ▲ ● ▼		Well, it doesn't use that much power.
		It used high voltage, 200 million volts for a full-scale system, lesser voltage for a smaller system.
		It did not require high power.
		It required High voltage and a relatively minor amount of power because the output tube, which I've seen and do have photos, or I should say sketches from, or working sketches from his notes, showed a continuously evacuated tube, which was evacuated on a continuously pumped basis because it had to have an open end for the discharge of the particle beam.
		And a full-scale system would have required 200 million volts.
		The model is much lower.
		But that voltage was at very low current.
unidentified		Right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You say continually evacuated.
al bielek ▲ ● ▼		I understand particle beam weapons are much more effective in space where... This was intended for ground use on the surface.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Right.
al bielek ▲ ● ▼		In space, they don't have that problem.
unidentified		That's very true.
al bielek ▲ ● ▼		In any case, that was only one of the things he worked on.
		He also worked on a death ray system demonstrated in 1938-39 at White Sands Proving Grounds.
		And a friend had those notes for a number of years until they were taken.
		Shall we say by the government found out he had them in private holding and they were removed.
		Now he left RCA then had more time to spend on this project and his own laboratory work because he was still very active and in 1940 a successful test and then he went on to prepare the battleship for a test at a later date.
		Now in 1941 The Navy tapped Duncan and myself on the shoulder and said, it's time we find out what the Navy's about and sent us to sea for a year.
		It wasn't exactly a year.
		It was on the USS Pennsylvania.
		And from January of 41 until approximately October, we were all over the Pacific.
		And then the Pennsylvania came in a dry dock for Overhaul and Pearl Harbor.
		And that's a matter of public record.
		Anyone can check.
		And we were on liberty and leave.
		We went to San Francisco on July, I'm sorry, December 5th.
		We were to return to Pearl Harbor.
		We were about to board a plane at a naval air station in Alameda.
		And we were stopped.
		The naval captain said the orders are canceled.
		We were taken to the room and we were interviewed by then-Director of the Office of Naval Engineering, Hal Bowen, Sr., who told us that We expect the Japanese will attack Pearl Harbor within 48 to 72 hours.
		We consider you people to be too valuable to send back there, so stay in San Francisco, which we did.
		And we returned to the Institute in 1942, and of course, Pearl Harbor on December 7th is history.
		Now, we returned to the project, and preparations were well underway and nearly complete for the battleship test.
		And Tesla was having considerable misgivings about it at that time.
		He knew because of the extremely high power required, electromagnetic power, that they could be damaged or dead sailors because the equipment was going to be on the deck and the rotating fields.
		We're very powerful, and any personnel on deck would be exposed to them, and he expected there would be serious problems.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And there's a good cliffhanger point.
		I've got an additional quick break and a couple of them coming up here, so stand by just one sec, Al.
		The Philadelphia experiment's what we're talking about.
		Al Belick is my guest.
unidentified		This is the CBC Radio Network.
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		Good morning, everybody.
		Welcome back.
		I'm Mark Bell, my guest, Al Felix, in Phoenix of the Philadelphia experiment.
		We're getting up to it now.
		Al, you say that Tesla was having misgivings.
		I want to stop and ask you for a second about electromagnetic fields.
		I have a bad back, Al, and I had an MRI once, and I had a demonstration by the technician of the strength of the The magnetic field, and it was quite incredible, very strong.
		And yet, other than being able to see inside my body, there was no measurable effect.
		Now, suddenly, in our modern society, we're all of a sudden beginning to say, well, maybe there is an effect on the biological human being from electromagnetic fields.
		You know, all the controversy about the power lines and all the rest of it.
		So apparently, there may be something, but I always thought magnetics, as a general rule, Didn't have any effect at all on flesh and blood?
al bielek ▲ ● ▼		Well, if it's a DC field, you will find little or no effect.
		The problem is if it's an AC field at certain critical window frequencies, these have been shorted, of course, since that day and that period.
		The information is well known now.
		There are critical window frequencies which affect the brain directly because the brain is affected and is receptive to magnetic frequencies and modulation in the magnetic domain.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		But only alternating current?
al bielek ▲ ● ▼		That's correct.
		An alternating field, or even it's supposed to be over the course of the Fourier series of frequencies, harmonics, which attain to a pulsed train, you have the same problem.
		Of course, a pulsed output or a square wave output, you have many more frequencies than the fundamental.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Absolutely.
al bielek ▲ ● ▼		Now, that was only part of the problem.
		The other aspect is that high frequency electric fields, that is RF fields, will also affect the
		body and the brain if it's at the right frequencies.
		The Japanese did a lot of work on this during World War II.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, no, absolutely.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		In fact, at high enough frequencies, you literally cook as you would in a microwave oven.
al bielek ▲ ● ▼		True.
		And even without cooking, you have frequencies which will affect the mind and the brain.
		And the effect on the neurological system is not at the level of RF heating, which was
		the old standard in the United States.
		The Russians have long since learned better, and of course they do know better here now.
		But the standard used to be one-tenth of a watt, or a hundred milliwatts per square inch,
		was considered the threshold of heating of human tissue.
		And that was considered the danger point, and no consideration was given to the biological effects of much weaker fields.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Over long-term as well?
al bielek ▲ ● ▼		Long-term or short-term.
		Window frequency short-term.
		Now that, of course, isn't modern data, and it's all a result of the Florida experiment and with the aftermath and all of the studies that were made.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I don't want to get too technical on everybody, Al, but I would be interested, what kind of frequency range are you talking about when you say window frequencies?
al bielek ▲ ● ▼		No frequencies in terms of the human brain, the magnetic response, you're dealing in frequencies typically below 30 Hertz.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, very low frequencies then?
al bielek ▲ ● ▼		That's correct, ELF.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, I'll be darned.
		And I thought you were going to say just the opposite.
		I thought you were going to talk about one gigahertz and up.
al bielek ▲ ● ▼		No, RF you will talk about high frequencies in the range of the spinal resonance around 450 megahertz, the brain cavity Resonance is somewhere, depending on the size of the cavity of the human head, anywhere from roughly 850 to 1000 MHz, or 1 GHz, which also gets into the range of the cellular phone and the problem... I was just about to say that.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		These people holding these cellular phones up ought to perhaps think better of it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		One second now.
unidentified		Stand by.
unidentified		Uh-huh.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Fascinating.
unidentified		We'll be right back.
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	You're listening to Art's 1993 interview with Al Bielik on this, the absolute best of Coast
	Coast AM with Art Bell.
	Top of the morning, everybody.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Al Bielik in Phoenix is with us again, Al.
		That's just a little break for other stations to join in that.
		All right, Al.
al bielek ▲ ● ▼		That's an old side issue.
		That comes into play when one considers the final results of the test on the others.
		But let's come back to the basic story here.
		Tesla was concerned because he knew with the amount of power that was involved that there would be serious problems with Navy personnel.
		He went to the Navy and asked for an extension of time.
		He said he was certain he could solve the problem, but he needed more time.
		And of course, he received the usual answer at that time.
		There's a war on.
		You've got a test date and meet it.
		So, he had the choice of going ahead and hoping for the best or, as he did choose, sabotage the test, detune the equipment so nothing happened and nobody was hurt.
		And of course, he at that point... That was the first test, Al, on the big ship?
		That was the first test of a big ship.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And he detuned the equipment, actually took it off frequency so it wouldn't happen?
al bielek ▲ ● ▼		That's correct.
al bielek ▲ ● ▼		He deliberately sabotaged the test.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		How'd he do it?
al bielek ▲ ● ▼		No one was hurt.
		And of course, That altered his historic record of having an impeccable history of never failing on any project.
		So he did on that one, and he bowed out and says, uh, the test is a failure, gentlemen.
		I have other things to do.
		I'm leaving this project.
		Well, the question is whether he left voluntarily or had a little assistance from the Navy.
		It doesn't matter.
		He left the project.
		And it was not very long after that, since it was March 42 in January of 1943, he died, and that was on the 7th of January.
		But he was separated from the project at that point and turned it over to Dr. John von Neumann, who then became the director.
		And von Neumann looked at the projects, told the Navy, I'll have to look and see what went wrong.
		It didn't take him long to find out what was wrong, but he decided to avail himself of the time and redesign the equipment.
		And he went, unlike Tesla, who was an analog man, liked to use continuous waves with special modulation waveforms, Von Neumann was a man who liked to do pulsed work, in other
		words, pulse the system with energy.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		As you would radar.
al bielek ▲ ● ▼		As you would radar, exactly.
unidentified		Sure.
al bielek ▲ ● ▼		And he decided to redesign the equipment for that.
		The basic mathematics, the basic approach was still the same.
		And the basic approach involved rotating fields, a rotating magnetic field outside of a rotating electric field, both
		counterclockwise.
		And the equipment design involved some changes, particularly upping the power.
		Von Neumann went up to a 2 megawatt power output with a booster on each RF transmitter.
		Well, I can't say a standard AM transmitter, but a standard transmitter of the day, which
		they were pushing the state of the art because the output was 160 megahertz, which was high
		frequency in those days, but definitely within the realm of capability because radar was
		functional in those days and they were running at still higher frequency.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You say 160 megahertz?
al bielek ▲ ● ▼		Right, at 2 megawatts.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh my gosh, uh, that's a VHF frequency typically used by, um, two, two-way communications.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Police are a little lower, uh, but it's in that area.
al bielek ▲ ● ▼		But those days it was in the radar range, because you didn't go to 400 megahertz range until, for radar, until the war was over.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Right.
al bielek ▲ ● ▼		And, uh, that was insofar as the RF transmitters were concerned, four of them, feeding a special quadraphase antenna.
		And I'm speaking of the final design for the Eldridge, uh, which was, the antenna was designed by G. Townsend Brown.
		He had been pulled into the Navy in 1938 to work on another problem, namely the German magnetic mines.
		But he was also an RF man, and he made contributions to the project.
		Now, in the redesign, He decided that he wanted a ship which was designed from the ground up for these tests.
		So this was roughly in the spring months of 1942, about roughly July, he went to the Newark Shipbuilding Yards, which were not far from Philadelphia, picked a number off a drawing board, DE-173, and gave instructions how he wanted the ship modified.
		Namely, we're not completely Complete and finish the interior of the ship, leave it gutted, put two rails along the bottom, and leave gun turret number two unfinished so they could drop the heavy equipment in.
		In the case of the battleship, in trying to outfit it without designing it from the ground up, the heavy equipment was on the deck.
		So we wanted two large generators for the four Tesla coils buried in the guts of the ship.
		They were 75 kVA each.
		Driven by a 750 horsepower motor with two right-angle gearbox drives, and that's some pretty heavy equipment.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, it is.
al bielek ▲ ● ▼		And that went in the hold of a ship, along with a diesel-electric generator to supply power for the system, which was totally separate from ship's power.
		And that was an 8-megawatt monster.
		So they had some heavy equipment in the hold.
		And the ship came down the ways in September of 1942, went into dry dock, they put their heavy equipment on board the ship, and then in September, I'm sorry, December of 42, a ship under its own power went to the Philadelphia Navy Yard in the interior section, which was a classified work, and the rest of the electronic equipment was installed.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I wish to stop you for a second so that I can understand the layout of the fields again.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You've got an RF field, I take it, first.
al bielek ▲ ● ▼		Yes, and there are special mast midships on top of the highest mast of the ship.
al bielek ▲ ● ▼		And this produced a rotating electric field because of the design of the rest of the electronic equipment.
unidentified		Right.
al bielek ▲ ● ▼		And the field was provided by four transmitters.
		Each were pulsed at special pulse rates, which is part of the whole system, and a lot of electronics which preceded it.
		Now, in addition to that, you had four large conical Tesla coils.
		When I say a Tesla coil, not the full-blown type, which one is familiar with today with a primary and a secondary.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Right.
al bielek ▲ ● ▼		But a single coil, which was round and a conical shape, narrow at the top, wide at the base.
		There was one inch, essentially one inch copper tubing, hollow and cooled.
		And it was a single turn, like a spiral, expanding, and was fed at the top and the bottom, and cables from the generator.
		They had two large generators, two outputs from each generator, and these were phased, due to the rest of the electronic equipment, so that you had A rotating magnetic field because of the phasing of the generators and the associated electronics.
		So these four coils were placed on the deck of the Eldridge.
		Two forward, two aft, and of course there were two in starboard and two port, and they were symmetrically arranged around the antenna.
		And they were driven with very high-powered current pulses.
		And there was a certain rate, approximately a 10% duty cycle, And frequencies so that you wound up with a rotating magnetic field.
		Now, this rotating field was outside of the electric field, in essence.
		And without getting too technical on this... Was the RF... I'm still trying to understand.
unidentified		I'm sorry, Al, don't mean to interrupt.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Was the RF field rotating, or was it a constant output?
al bielek ▲ ● ▼		Oh, they were both rotating.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		They were both rotating?
al bielek ▲ ● ▼		At different frequencies.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		At different frequencies, and not in synchronization other...
al bielek ▲ ● ▼		We're in synchronization, essentially, yes, because one was twice the rate of the other.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
al bielek ▲ ● ▼		Well, both tied, mathematically speaking, in terms of the rotating rate to what is a fundamental number for everything on this planet, namely pi over two.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
		Okay.
		I think I finally understand.
preston nichols ▲ ● ▼		Okay.
al bielek ▲ ● ▼		Now, this, of course, was in the final embodiment of the equipment.
		The ship had to be outfitted with electronic equipment and everything that went with it.
		Duncan and I were back on the project, of course, from January 42 onward, and we saw the failure of the battleship test.
		We saw the whole procedure for the development of the Eldridge, which at that time was not called the Eldridge.
		It was just a number, DE-173.
		It had not become the Eldridge until it was christened, which was in August of 43.
		Now, with the outfitting of the ship, And there was a lot of testing and some other problems.
		Of course, they never tested the full system until it was out in the harbor.
		They also went through the Navy and decided, Norman decided, the Navy concurred to have a special volunteer test crew for these tests.
		All volunteer.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		How many were aboard totally?
al bielek ▲ ● ▼		The final test, there was 15 sailors and about six officers.
al bielek ▲ ● ▼		For the test, each of the two tests for the outage.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Fifteen sailors and how many officers?
al bielek ▲ ● ▼		Six.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Six officers.
unidentified		Okay.
al bielek ▲ ● ▼		And I was two of them, two of them included Duncan and myself.
unidentified		Right.
al bielek ▲ ● ▼		Because we were trained to run the equipment in the hold, actually, which was a control room on the surface of the ship, behind steel doors and steel bulkheads.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So you weren't able to see out on the deck?
al bielek ▲ ● ▼		No, not with the bulkhead door closed, which was a normal procedure while operating the equipment.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Right.
al bielek ▲ ● ▼		In any case, a lot of preliminary tests preceding the final tests, and von Neumann started to get the shakes about the personnel problem himself about, oh, roughly March of 1943.
		And he decided to add a third generator to try and produce a counterfield.
		And that never worked.
		It could never be synchronized with the other two.
		The other two required very special electronics.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		What was the purpose of the counterfield?
al bielek ▲ ● ▼		To provide some kind of protection in von Neumann's mind To the effects of the other main field to the personnel.
		The system never worked.
		It only succeeded in zapping a technician who was working with us in the control room.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		He was going to try and nullify the field in a certain area.
al bielek ▲ ● ▼		Correct.
		It didn't work and he consequently abandoned the approach for the third generator and went back to the two generator approach.
		And, uh, it was essentially ready for tests in July of 1943.
		Now, all of this equipment was aboard the Yardbridge.
		There were preliminary sectional tests, and we were thoroughly instructed in what was to be done and how the procedure was, because you have to understand in those days there were no computers.
unidentified		Right.
al bielek ▲ ● ▼		Computer was invented by von Neumann, but at a later date, after the war was over.
		And everything was manually run, so that The concern at that time was to produce a field of invisibility which would be both optical and, of course, by 43.
		We had very good radar.
		It was developed in the years prior to the war, but it was almost unknown until 1941-42.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So invisible optically and to radar?
al bielek ▲ ● ▼		And to radar.
		It's only an extension of one or the other, because the optical high frequencies are a much higher electromagnetic frequency range than radar.
		Later on those days it was running around 160 to 200 megahertz.
		So the final test, the first test, not final, was decided to be held on the 20th of July.
		They spread this until the 22nd.
		And then they held it in the harbor of Philadelphia.
		There was an observer ship with a man running the test.
		The man in charge of it was a Captain Harrison, now dead.
		And of course on that ship was a man known as another scientist, another Navy personnel, who was a carrier as the observer.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So he was at least confident enough to be on board during it himself?
al bielek ▲ ● ▼		He was on board the observer ship.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, I see.
unidentified		Then he wasn't.
al bielek ▲ ● ▼		He was not on the outage.
unidentified		I see.
al bielek ▲ ● ▼		No, the only people on the outage were those who were involved directly in a test, which included dumping on myself.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Did they advise you of the danger of what you were about to do?
unidentified		No.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		No?
al bielek ▲ ● ▼		No, they did not.
		There was no allusion to there being any real danger, but there was allusion to the fact that there could be problems.
		And Norman did not expect any kind of a serious problem.
		For those who have seen the movie, where they saw these banks and banks of electron tubes, it was quite accurate except for one thing.
		In the movie version, they showed miniature tubes.
		In the real version, they were using 6L6s in the large glass bulb size.
unidentified		6L6s?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
		And I know about a 6L6.
		That was the first tube I used in my first ham transmitter.
al bielek ▲ ● ▼		It was commonly used for many years, that's true.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It was a 6AG7 driver.
al bielek ▲ ● ▼		Right.
		6L6s were used to drive the field coils of the generators.
		3,000 of them.
unidentified		Wow!
al bielek ▲ ● ▼		There was actually 300 per field coil.
		There were five field coils on each generator.
		Don't ask me why that configuration was chosen.
		I couldn't answer that one.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I'm very impressed, Al, with your ability to describe the technical aspect of this.
		I'm very pleased about that.
		I know a lot of people in the audience won't understand it, but I'm understanding what you're saying, and you're very impressive.
al bielek ▲ ● ▼		So, on the 22nd of July, they were ready for a test, and we were out in the harbor, and we received command by radio to the radio operator to proceed with the test, so we fired up the equipment in the appropriate order.
		And they ran the test for about 20 minutes, and the ship was invisible to the eye other than for a slight haze in the area where the ship was.
		It was actually in the water, and it was totally invisible to radar.
		It just faded right off the radar screen.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Did that invisibility occur instantly, or did it sort of phase in slowly, or how did it... Phased in slowly.
al bielek ▲ ● ▼		It did not occur instantly.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		How would you be able to confine the field Um, precisely to the, uh, the mass of the ship, Al, or did you actually take some seawater with you?
al bielek ▲ ● ▼		I took some seawater with you.
		That became the concern of Captain Harrison because he saw a large waterline, much larger than the ship, and from his viewpoint on the deck of the carrier, looking with a pair of binoculars, All he could see was a big hole under the ship, and it appeared like the ship was floating in air.
		That is, there was a big gap there.
		He couldn't see the ship, but he could see that the, into the outline of the ship where it should be, and the waterline was much larger than the ship, and he couldn't see the bottom, so to speak, where the water was.
		It was a fairly deep section of the harbor.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Wow.
al bielek ▲ ● ▼		And he became very concerned that maybe the ship was floating in air.
al bielek ▲ ● ▼		It wasn't.
unidentified		Sure.
al bielek ▲ ● ▼		Well, let's go to you for a moment.
		What was your job?
		It was air there and he was afraid because of the way the ship was put together with the gutted interior
		that the thing would break in half without water support.
		So he ordered the test terminated after 20 minutes.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, let's go to you for a moment.
		What were you, what was your job?
		What were you doing?
al bielek ▲ ● ▼		Nothing. We're running the equipment.
		In other words, we had the dual responsibility, not only of turning the equipment on in proper sequence,
		checking the mirrors, knowing what the basic physics involved was,
		but also in case something went wrong, we had to diagnose what might have gone wrong
		and if necessary, shut the equipment off.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, now a dumb question, and then we've got to take a break.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Once the invisibility occurred, or that effect began, as you looked at your own hand, what did you see?
al bielek ▲ ● ▼		A hand.
al bielek ▲ ● ▼		You see, the effect was not on board the ship.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		As you look... Oh, I see, so... And as you looked at anything in the ship, it, too, appeared as normal?
al bielek ▲ ● ▼		Internally, to the ship and to anyone on the deck, the ship appeared essentially normal, except for one factor.
al bielek ▲ ● ▼		There was a heavy haze around the ship, and that heavy haze was ozone gas, which was generated by these fields.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Ozone, well... Now, what I'm going to ask you when we come back in a moment, I'm going to take a quick break, is where that ship went.
		Stand by, right there.
		We'll be right back to you.
		Al Belich is my guest.
		Wow!
		The Philadelphia experiment brought back to life for you this morning.
		We'll find out more.
		Top of the morning, everybody.
		Many of you have no idea that in our Senate there is a new bill, actually the second time around now for this bill, that will create a new money.
		A lot of people don't believe this for some reason.
		They just don't believe it.
		Well, there is going to be a new money.
		It'll be multicolored.
		There'll be two forms of it.
		One to use inside the country.
		One out.
		And a lot of people believe that eventual domestic devaluation of the dollar, that is, faster than the normal slow erosion that's going on, is inevitable.
		Now, if you want to see a copy of this Senate bill, my sponsor will send it to you without obligation and free of charge.
		All you've got to do is call and ask.
		Tell them I told you to call.
		Get a copy of this.
		Show it to your friends.
		Then they will believe too, because it is true.
		It's North American Trading, and a way to get your hand on the bill is to call 1-800-877-9799.
		Let me give that to you one more time, please.
unidentified		1-800-877-9799.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's North American Trading.
		Are you making too many trips to the bathroom?
		that to you one more time please. 1-800-877-9799. That's North American Trading.
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		So call 1-800-249-6060.
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unidentified		You are listening to the best of Art Sav.
unidentified		From the Kingdom of Nine, Coast to Coast AM continues with Art Bell.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Al Belick is my guest from Phoenix.
		He was there.
		He operated some of the equipment.
		And I'm very impressed with the technical aspects of this, and I hope that the eyes are not glazing out there over some of the technical details, but the devil is in the details, and I have never had somebody as competent to discuss the technical details of something as incredible as this, and Al Belick's doing it very well.
		Al, are you still there?
ron jenkins ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Good.
		So for 20 minutes, this ship disappeared.
		I'm going to ask a dumb question, ask where did it go, and you're going to say nowhere.
al bielek ▲ ● ▼		It didn't go anywhere.
		It was still there in the harbor.
		There was, in fact, even a test with somebody coming by with a launch to see if they could touch the hull of the ship.
		Well, they were a little bit far away, but what they found was that there was a viscous-like resistant field.
		They couldn't even get their hand up to their elbow into it.
		It was resisting any attempt to penetrate it.
		See, we're generating a field of a very unusual nature, and that field was outside of the ship by a fair distance, depending on the power.
		And actually what you had was a toroidal field, and the toroidal field was rotating, but it was also bisected across the donut, like you sliced the donut in half across the full diameter.
		One half of the field was above the waterline, the other half was below the waterline.
		It produced a very unusual effect because the end result of that was your rotating magnetic field was essentially unipolar above the waterline.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		What happened to the biological entities, the people, on board the ship?
al bielek ▲ ● ▼		When the order was given to terminate the test and return to dockside, there was no problem.
		They did return the ship to dockside.
		There were certain numbers of personnel stationed on the deck to see what they saw and what they observed.
		These people, these sailors, were totally disoriented, sick, nauseous, out of it as the saying goes, and mentally very confused.
		They were not insane and they were not in the state which happened on the second test.
		But in any case, the Navy says, well, it's no problem, we have another test crew, because they only took about one-half of the special group of trainees who went through a special 90-day training school at the Coast Guard Academy, headed by my father, believe it or not.
		And they said, well, we have another crew for you, no problem.
		And so, von Neumann says, well, I've got to find a means to solve this problem.
		And he asked the Navy for more time.
		Well, they didn't initially give a mandate for the second test.
		Well, what happened was that after about a week, they said, OK, you've got a drop dead date, the 12th of August, 1943.
		Complete your tests by then or forget it.
		Well, we couldn't figure out what the blazes this was all about.
		It never made no sense that anyone had ever given such an order before.
		And I went to Al Bowen and said, where did this order come from?
		He found out it came from the Chief of Naval Operations, who was Admiral King at that time.
		Which made even less sense, because he was only concerned with the operation of the Navy's part in the worldwide theater of operations and running the war.
		Why should he be concerned about an engineering test?
		We never did find the answer to that until many, many years later.
		But in any case, came the 12th.
		We had a great deal of concern about it, and Norman did not have time enough to make any major change in equipment.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		We're almost over the news here, but why were your concerns greater about the second test than the first?
al bielek ▲ ● ▼		Well, we were concerned more about the second test for this reason.
		Captain Harrison had decided that because of what he saw through the binoculars, he wanted special additional tests run, like they put pressure reading equipment on the hull, inside and outside.
		A special crew, additional crew, was assigned to the Eldridge.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, Al.
		Hold it there.
		Relax.
		We'll be back right after the news.
		Stay there, everybody.
unidentified		We'll be back.
		If you've missed any part of tonight's interviews with Al Belick or Preston Nichols and you'd like to have a copy on tape, dial toll-free 1-800-917-4278 and ask for tape number 970217C.
		The cost is $33.50 for all five hours without the commercials.
		Ask for tape number 970217C.
		The cost is $33.50 for all five hours without the commercials.
		That toll-free number is 1-800-917-4278.
		You've got tax questions.
		Who doesn't?
		The important thing is, where do you go for answers?
		Well, try calling the Internal Revenue Service.
		TeleTax is your 24-hour, toll-free helpline.
		You'll have access to recorded information on about 150 tax topics, from deductions to dependents to business expenses.
		Just call 1-800-829-4477.
		That's 1-800-829-4477 for TeleTax.
		At the IRS, we want to help.
		In fact, that's why we're here.
		In the next 60 seconds, I'm going to do something terrible to anyone who's ever wanted to play the piano.
		I'm going to take away your excuses.
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		Things were really cooking at the Safety Belt Steakhouse.
		When we pinched them.
		Ouch!
ron jenkins ▲ ● ▼		Betty gives us a ticket.
unidentified		That's right, and don't call me Betty.
unidentified		But we never wear safety belts.
ron jenkins ▲ ● ▼		See, we're dummies!
unidentified		Then here's something even you can understand.
		For a good time, call... No, this.
		A ticket?
		Police are now ticketing low-life scum who don't wear safety belts, so buckle up.
ron jenkins ▲ ● ▼		Surely you can give us a break?
unidentified		No, and don't call me Shirley.
unidentified		A message from the Department of Transportation and the Ad Council.
ron jenkins ▲ ● ▼		USA Radio Network News, this is Ron Jenkins.
		The U.S.
		Ambassador to the United Nations begins his new job today.
		USA's Connie Lawn has the latest.
unidentified		Former New Mexico Congressman replaces Madeleine Albright in the position.
		The U.S.
		continues to press the U.N.
		for reform, but many in the U.N.
		claim they will not listen until the U.S.
		pays the more than $1 billion debt it owes.
		President Clinton says he wants to pay the money, but a majority of leaders in the Congress oppose the trends in the U.N.
		and are in no rush to repay the funds.
		Connie Lawn, USA Radio News, Washington.
ron jenkins ▲ ● ▼		Shuttle Discovery astronauts Mark Lee and Stephen Smith are wrapping up the fifth and final spacewalk this hour to finish upgrading the Hubble Space Telescope.
		They will re-enter the shuttle within the next few minutes.
		Mission Control says one of the final operations has just been completed.
unidentified		Houston, Leo Gatsby is removed.
		We can see it.
		The LGA-C, that acronym standing for Low Gain Antenna Cover, that was a protective cover that's one of the first items placed on the bottom of the telescope to protect that antenna from any inadvertent bumping.
		That antenna cover has been now removed.
ron jenkins ▲ ● ▼		The Discovery crew will place the Hubble back in space orbit tonight, then begin wrapping up the mission after final testing of the telescope's new electronics.
ron jenkins ▲ ● ▼		This is USA Radio News.
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ron jenkins ▲ ● ▼		The investigation into alleged influence peddling in the 1996 presidential election has brought with it 20 new subpoenas
		and word from the chief investigator that there could be more.
		Ben Burton, Indiana Republican and Chairman of the House Committee on Government Reform and Oversight, is working alongside Senator Fred Thompson's Governmental Affairs Committee looking at possible foreign influence in the U.S.
		election process.
		Jeff Birnbaum, Washington Bureau Chief of Fortune Magazine, says Burton has a big job in front of him.
unidentified		Dan Burton, the chairman of the committee in the House, is looking into this.
ron jenkins ▲ ● ▼		U.S.
unidentified		Secretary of State Madeleine Albright attended her first NATO foreign ministers meeting as she continues her nine-country tour.
		She's in France.
		properly, to Democratic coffers, that he's expanded his investigation and it looks like
		he'll have a lot of work to do.
ron jenkins ▲ ● ▼		U.S. Secretary of State Madeleine Albright attended her first NATO Foreign Ministers
		meeting as she continues her nine-country tour.
		She's in France.
unidentified		This is USA Radio News.
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ron jenkins ▲ ● ▼		1-800-452-6200.
		A Georgian diplomat expected to face trial in the U.S.
		for allegedly causing a fatal car crash and the death of a 16-year-old girl might serve some or all of his punishment in his native country.
		USA's John Decker has more.
unidentified		Georgian President Eduard Shevardnadze suggested in a radio interview that his government would push to have the Georgian diplomat serve any punishment in Georgia rather than the U.S.
		Shevardnadze says there will be serious negotiations with the U.S.
		As to where the diplomat, if he's found guilty, serves time.
		Prosecutors are expected to seek a grand jury indictment charging the diplomat with involuntary manslaughter now that Georgia has waived his diplomatic immunity.
		John Decker, USA Radio News, Washington.
ron jenkins ▲ ● ▼		Sources in the Chinese capital of Beijing say there are major concerns about the health of China's paramount leader, Deng Xiaoping.
		Sources say his health has deteriorated to the point that the country's chief leaders have cut short trips to the provinces to get back to Beijing.
		Ron Jenkins on the USA Radio Network.
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		After all, the more you know now, the better your chances of beating it later.
		Call the Foundation Fighting Blindness for your free information packet at 1-800-683-5555 today.
		Because in the race against time, the cure in sight could be your own.
		Tonight, while Art Bell is recovering from the cold he caught flying home from Mexico,
		The Pantler Broadcasting Company presents the absolute best of Art Bell.
		We take you way back to the scratchy analog days of 1993, to vintage Art Bell and his classic three-hour interview with Al Belix, followed by two hours with Preston Nichols and the subsequent Montauk experiment.
		It's a dandy and one of Art's all-time favorite shows.
		And now, hour number two, featuring Art Bell and Al Belick on the Philadelphia Experiment.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Al, are you still there?
al bielek ▲ ● ▼		Still.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, let's talk second experiment.
unidentified		Well, okay.
al bielek ▲ ● ▼		To continue where I left off, they decided they wanted to do some pressure testing on the hull to find out exactly what was going on, have a second crew placed on board, which was to operate that equipment only.
al bielek ▲ ● ▼		And they assigned a submarine to go under the ship and find out, well, what was going on with the waterline or whatever.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Makes sense, yeah.
al bielek ▲ ● ▼		So, all of this was set up for the final test on the 12th of August.
		And we had the crew on board and everything ready to go, and the last minute, something happened.
		They pulled the crew, the special crew, and put them on the sub, removed the sub, and then told us of the regular crew for the test to go ahead for the test.
		Well, at that point, needless to say, Dunkley and I were very concerned.
		What's going on here?
		We had that funny gut feeling that something was terribly wrong, but we didn't know what.
		So, at the appropriate time, we were given the radio command to proceed, and we had two changes.
		One, the Navy decided to relax the requirement for optical invisibility, just radar, because they decided, if you understand in those days, there was no lower end, no shore end.
		And none of the sophisticated navigation systems we have today, or satellites, or whatever.
		And if you didn't have radar visibility, you better have some kind of optical visibility at night in a storm, or you might be ramming adjacent ships in a convoy, because that was typically the way they ran across the Atlantic, was in a large convoy.
		And they were trying to thwart the German cinculate, which was then approximately 50% of the shipping crossing the Atlantic.
		So, there we were, and we had orders to proceed with the final test, finally received by radio, so we proceeded and fired up equipment.
		And for the first test, to those observing on the outside, and at this point there were three observer ships.
		There was a carrier, there was a Coast Guard Cutter, and there was a commercial ship known as the SS Furius, a Merchant Marine ship.
		The Merchant Marine, of course, was very interested in this system, had worked, they wanted to immediately outfit some of their ships when they were crossing the Atlantic.
		So we had three observer ships.
		We turned the equipment on, and for about the first 70 or so seconds, everything appeared to be functioning according to plan, i.e., radar invisibility, but you could still see the ship through a haze.
		The ship was still visible, but not in the normal sense of visibility.
		It was shrouded, if you will.
		And all of a sudden, there was a blue flash and the ship disappeared.
		Waterline and all.
		And there was no ship in the harbor.
		It was gone.
		And I don't mean visibly gone.
		It was physically gone.
		And it was gone for about four hours.
		And then at four hours approximately, the ship suddenly reappeared in the harbor.
		And needless to say, von Neumann and everybody was panicked when this happened.
		And there was no way to raise anyone on the radio.
		There was absolutely no radio connection.
		Ship reappeared and they immediately observed from the observing carrier, the principal observer ship, that there was something wrong.
		Part of the antenna mass, special one, was gone.
		There was some superficial damage on the deck of the ship.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I can't stand it now.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Where did the ship go?
al bielek ▲ ● ▼		I'll get to that.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay.
al bielek ▲ ● ▼		And there was some visible crew running around like crazy and nobody responded on the radio.
		So they had a special launch go out with a boarding crew.
		And when they boarded the ship, they found out much more about what happened.
		They found two men buried in the steel deck.
		Two men were buried upright in a steel bulkhead.
		A fifth man had his hand buried in a steel bulkhead.
		He lived.
		He was the only one of the five that lived.
		And they cut his hand off and gave him an artificial hand later.
		And, uh, absolute pandemonium when they found us.
		And those who were still on deck were insane.
		And, uh, totally out of it.
		I mean, I do mean insane.
		And those below deck were perfectly all right, because they were shooted by the steel.
		Right.
		One man developed a problem of intermittent and uncontrolled invisibility, but probably due to flux leakage due to the saturating of the steel.
		In any case, a special crew was put on board.
		The ship was brought back to dockside at the Philadelphia Navy Yard.
		And they had four days of inquiry in hearing what happened.
		So I made my report.
		I was there.
		Duncan was not.
		He was among those who were missing.
		And nobody believed my report.
		Van Norman didn't believe it.
		In any case, he told me, I'll talk with you later.
		They opted for one more test.
		Like the first test in 1940, they were successful.
		After replacing the damaged equipment, I will be in the outer harbor of Philadelphia late at night, sometime late October.
		2,200 hours at night and run it on long cables, like 1,000 feet of cable to the adjacent ship to control it.
		After the ship was on station, remove the personnel, control the equipment by remote cable, which they did, and the ship disappeared, came back about 15, 20 minutes later.
		Equipment in the hold was a smoking room and some of it was missing, so at that point the Navy washed the hands of the whole project.
		So we were scrapping it, put the normal equipment on board, the Elbridge, re-outfitted for war service.
		That was done for war service during 44 and 45.
		Sometime in 46 we put in mothballs and remained there until 1951, I think it was, 1951 or 1952, when it was turned over to the Greek Navy as part of the group that was ships turned over to the Greek Navy by President Truman.
		I was renamed Leon And believe it or not, that ship is still in service in the Greek Navy today.
		We've had feedback on it in the last two months.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's an astounding story.
		So now, if I can... What happened?
		That's right.
		What happened?
		You were on board.
		Where'd that ship go?
al bielek ▲ ● ▼		What happened to us?
		That is Duncan and I. Yes.
		The first 30 seconds, everything appeared to be normal after the equipment was operational.
		Then we noticed strange waverings in the tubes, and then some strange electrical arcing started to take place in the control room.
		This was totally unprecedented because there was no high voltage right there that could induce such arc over.
		Nevertheless, it happened.
		It was continuing.
		We tried to raise somebody on the radio because another change in the interim was they put a direct link to the radio transmitter and a receiver in our control room rather than going through a remote signaling system and a remote link on the radio tower, so to speak.
		And, uh, we grazed no one, couldn't hear anyone, so we ran along.
		And we decided at that point, well, this equipment's going haywire, this is not according to plan, we'd better shut it down.
		Went to the main control handles for the main AC power to the equipment, and we yanked on them, grabbed on them, tried to force them, they wouldn't budge.
		We could not break power connection.
		Conditions continued to get worse in the control room, so we decided, let's get out of here, opened the bulkhead door, ran out on deck, So a sailor was milling around very severely.
		No one was buried in the deck at that time.
		And we got the bright idea, well, let's jump overboard and swim ashore.
		We were both good swimmers.
		So we did jump overboard.
		Now I must state, at that point, we could see nothing beyond the railing of the ship.
		It was just a grey fog, if you will.
		A grey something.
		We didn't know what it was, but we couldn't see anything beyond the ship.
		The ship was still quite visible of itself.
		So there was a haze running around on the ship.
		We jumped overboard.
		We never hit the water.
		Decided we didn't know what was happening, but we started to fall and fall and fall through what appeared to be or felt like a tunnel of some kind.
		And all kinds of strange flashing lights.
		And eventually we wound up standing on our feet on dry land.
		Quite a change from the expected water landing.
unidentified		I should say.
al bielek ▲ ● ▼		Dry land at night, and the inside perimeter of a military base is a chain link fenced immediately to our back.
		And suddenly there was a bright searchlight beaming down on us from what was obviously a helicopter overhead.
		We didn't know what a helicopter was because in 43 there were still play toys, things which Sikorsky was working on, selling a few to the military, but they certainly were not a mainstay at that period.
		Today they are a mainstay of the military.
		So here we were, spotlighted by a searchlight, and MPs came out of nowheres.
		This is where the story deviates from the movie.
		They grabbed us immediately, took us to a building, and the building we went, got on an elevator, it took us down several levels.
		Elevator doors opened, we saw a lot of military personnel running around, and an elderly civilian came forward and greeted us, and said to us, I've been expecting you gentlemen, I am Dr. John Van Norman.
unidentified		Oh!
al bielek ▲ ● ▼		We looked at him and said, you're who?
		I said, I'm Dr. Von Neumann.
		He said, you can't be.
		We left him about an hour ago.
		He's a much younger man.
		He said, no, I'm sorry, gentlemen.
		You're no longer 1943.
		I'm 40 years older.
		This is 1983, and you're at Montauk, Long Island, part of the Phoenix Project.
		Well, we thought he was nuts.
unidentified		Wow!
al bielek ▲ ● ▼		However, he gave us the grand tour of the underground base.
		We saw computers which did not exist in 43.
		Graphic displays, large screen color TV, and other electronic apparatus totally beyond anything we knew of in 1943.
		So we were not only impressed, we were thoroughly distraught.
		Finally, we sat down and watched TV for a few hours.
		As we found out later, we arrived at about 2 a.m.
		in the morning on the 12th of August, 1983.
		on Montauk, Long Island.
		The base was at the extreme eastern end of Long Island on what is known as the Montauk Air Force Station, long since abandoned, but in 1983 it was still operational in terms of this project.
		So we watched Color TV, which of course didn't exist in 43, and when you see ads for 747 jet aircraft and men on the moon and discussions about the moon landings and the Cold War with Russia and a few other things, we knew something was terribly wrong.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Holy mackerel, Al!
al bielek ▲ ● ▼		And a few shots of modern freeways and traffic jams and that sort of thing.
unidentified		That could be psychologically... It was devastating.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Devastating is a good word.
unidentified		Al, hold on.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		We're going into another break.
unidentified		What an amazing story.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		What a turn.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Thank you.
unidentified		Stay right there, Al.
		What an incredible story!
		This is CBC.
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unidentified		Now, back to the best of Art Bell.
unidentified		Good morning, everybody.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		An absolutely amazing story.
		Al Belick is my guest.
		The discussion surrounding the Philadelphia experiment.
		And, uh, Al, we're going into a series of small breaks now, so we'll have to capsulize this, um, and I promise I'll get to these phone lines, which are all full towards the bottom of the hour here.
		Al, uh, here you are in, uh, you jumped off the ship, you're on dry land, greeted by a helicopter with a spotlight, and you're on a military base, and you're in 1983!
		Correct.
unidentified		Oh!
al bielek ▲ ● ▼		We didn't believe it at first, but, uh, after watching, uh, everything, seeing the evidence, We actually went up during the daylight hours up above the ground on the base.
		They did not let us off the base.
		But we did have a look around.
		It was a very large military base and it's still there, though defunct at the present time.
		And defunct in terms of the surface buildings.
		That's another long story on the Montauk Project.
		But in any case, finally Van Nuylen told us, he says, well gentlemen, perhaps you're convinced now, he says, and now we'll have to tell you the rest of the story.
		He says, I've known the whole story for some time.
		I've had it in my records.
		He said, you will go back.
		We have to send you back to the outreach so that you can smash the equipment and shut it off.
		He says, we can't control it from here.
		It's still running.
		The ship disappeared into hyperspace and into a hyperspace bubble, which is a mathematical, artificial reality.
		And it's sustained by the fuels generated by the equipment on board the ship.
		And he says, there's enough fuel there to keep it running for 30 days if something doesn't break down.
		The problem is that this hyperspace bubble is growing and we don't know what it's going to encompass and how large it may get.
		It could engulf the entire Earth.
		Now, if you remember from the movie, there was an allusion to this.
		That is the movie, The Philadelphia Experiment, released in 1984.
		Of this growing huge storm and the energy is growing.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, yes.
		Yes, yes, Al.
		I've got it on tape.
		I'm going to go right home this morning and watch it.
al bielek ▲ ● ▼		And he said, you've got to go back and destroy the equipment on the Eldridge so it can return to the harbor in 43.
		And I said, well, that's great.
		Just how are we supposed to do that?
		He says, we'll send you back.
		And I said, and just how are you going to do that?
		He says, well, we have complete control over space and time here on this project.
		We can send you anywhere we want.
		So we scratched our heads again, we didn't believe them, but they did send us back to the decks of the Eldridge.
		And the Montauk Project is another long story of itself.
		It did indeed have control of space and time, and that is another long total story.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well then we obviously have time travel.
al bielek ▲ ● ▼		We've had it since 1945.
al bielek ▲ ● ▼		Good heavens.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And not just time travel, but apparently simultaneously through space as well.
al bielek ▲ ● ▼		Yes, now that's a much later development.
		That was a Montauk project in the 60s and the 70s.
		Actually, it didn't come online until 76, 77.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		What I'm saying is, that actually occurred with the Philadelphia Experiment, because that ship moved not just in time, but in space.
al bielek ▲ ● ▼		Correct.
		That was not intended.
		It was an accident, so to speak.
		The two experiments locked up and he knew it.
		So he sent us back so we could smash the equipment.
		So we're back on the deck to the Average.
		We're going to Control Room.
		We find access and we start smashing everything in sight.
		And eventually we have enough equipment.
		The lines cut and equipment smashed.
		Most of the 6062s and some auxiliary electronic equipment.
		The main generator started to wind down.
		And at that point we knew the thing was over.
		So we went back out on deck.
		And of course, at that point, we saw the bodies buried in the steel.
		However, we still couldn't see the harbor.
		And one of the things that turned up was a younger brother by the name of Jim, who was six years younger than Duncan and myself, had enlisted in the Navy after the war started, wound up volunteering for that special test crew, and wound up in the second test, and he was dying in the bulkhead.
		His head and shoulders were out of the steel.
		He was crying.
		I went over and put my arm around him.
		And, of course, he died that way.
		And Duncan took one look at this mess and looked at me and jumped overboard and disappeared.
		He wound up back in the Montauk Project, probably in 83.
		Records indicate that we found since that it was in 83 that he arrived.
		And that's another long story, but I'll go back to what happened so far as the ship is concerned.
preston nichols ▲ ● ▼		Right.
al bielek ▲ ● ▼		After Duncan jumped overboard, the fields collapsed.
al bielek ▲ ● ▼		It took about two minutes because they had been building up for many, many hours.
unidentified		Right.
al bielek ▲ ● ▼		Exactly how long in hyperspace you can't stay, but in terms of time at Philadelphia it was four hours.
		So they collapsed.
		We saw the normal harbor.
		The ship was seen to return and of course they sent the launch out and so forth.
		I remained with the ship.
		I made my report.
		I told them what happened and where I went.
		Nobody believed me.
		Norman Laders took me aside and said, I don't know whether to believe you or not.
		He said, we're going to find out.
		So he built a time machine there at the Institute, a small but workable one.
		And the technology for that was very little different than what we were dealing with in
		terms of the invisibility experiment.
		So he said, you're going back to 83 and you're going to get proof and bring it back to me to prove that you were there and that I was there.
unidentified		Oh, he did.
al bielek ▲ ● ▼		He sent me more than once.
		And I came back with proof that he accepted.
		So no more of that experiment.
		And of course, he was satisfied.
		It went into a report somewheres.
		And of course, October of 43, after that part was over, he was part of the atomic bomb project
		at Los Alamos.
		He made his first trip up there in late October.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I guess we could conclude then that the technology from 83 has continued.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Surely that's not something they've dropped.
al bielek ▲ ● ▼		No.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So they have that and much more capability now.
al bielek ▲ ● ▼		Yes, and furthermore, the project that was scuttled by the Navy in 43 was resurrected in 1947 when they asked Dr. von Neumann to resurrect the project and see if they could salvage anything from it and find out what really went wrong.
		Well, in 1946, of course, he was involved in the race with the British on building the first all-electronic digital computer.
		And he won the race, despite what BBC says.
		And the first computer was completed in 1952.
		The first working model is today in the Smithsonian.
		And there's a documentary on that.
		But in any case, the first one was completed, and he built a new system at the Navy, having solved the problem.
		In 1953, they had a new test.
		Alright, an obvious question now.
		There were no personal side effects.
		It was declared a success finally and of course the request to add the project again and put
		it under the code name Project Phoenix.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		An obvious question now.
		If we have this capability now, invisibility, why not...
		Why are we building stealth aircraft?
		Why are we putting special skins on aircraft and corners that are non-reflective of radar and that sort of thing if we have technology that will do that?
		Or is it still Uh, to the degree that, uh, you could not fit it, for example, reasonably on an airplane, or?
al bielek ▲ ● ▼		No, they've long since solved that problem.
		We'll fit it for aircraft.
		It's on the, used on the B-1 bomber, the B-2, which is a stealth bomber.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You're saying this technology is being used for stealth?
al bielek ▲ ● ▼		Yes, that's on all Navy fighter aircraft, those Israeli fighter aircraft.
		Uh, the SR-71.
		Holy!
		All of the large Navy... Al, hold on.
unidentified		Stay tuned for more vintage Art Bell on this encore presentation of Coast to Coast AM.
		Coming up after the news on this, the absolute best of Art Bell.
		♪♪ This is the CBC Radio Network.
		Thank you.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Surveys say it's working just fine.
		Thank you very much.
		I'm Art Bell, and I do a different kind of talk radio.
		Not the standard cookie-cutter talk radio you can hear anywhere, anytime, but stimulating, interesting, even bizarre talk radio at times.
		Tell you what, you want to take a listen?
unidentified		♪♪ This week on Greenland, Richard Noon, author of 5-5-2000
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Ice, the ultimate disaster.
unidentified		Don't miss it.
unidentified		It examines two questions that demand a verdict.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Is there life after death?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And are we alone in the universe?
unidentified		I'm Art Bell.
		The program is Greenland.
		Are you aware of the fact that regular guys and gals are taking over the world?
		It's true!
		Every day of the week, a bunch of regular, common-sense Americans are plotting to return to America.
		Those time-honored values and ethics just seem to be lost.
ron jenkins ▲ ● ▼		Listen to me, Roger Bredenburg Radio's regular guy.
unidentified		You've got a friend in me.
		You've got a friend in me.
		When the road looks Rough ahead and you're miles and miles from your nice warm bed.
		Last year, 23 medical schools added classes in alternative medicine to their curriculum.
		Alternative medicine has been our topic here on Here's to Your Health for the past 15 years on air.
		Hi, I'm Deborah Ray of Here's to Your Health, inviting you to join the cutting-edge experts in alternative health care each weekday morning and again on Sunday afternoons.
		Tune in to The Leader for health care information.
		Here's to Your Health.
		Good health.
		It's as close as your radio.
		Rich, what's all this about?
		Oh, yeah.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		My listed New Year's resolution.
unidentified		All right, well, let's have a look here so I can remind you when you fall short.
		All right, let's see.
		Buy a new mountain bike.
		Yeah, great.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Take a night school course.
ron jenkins ▲ ● ▼		Very ambitious.
unidentified		Don't mail in my federal income tax return.
		Well, let's talk about that one, Rich.
		Yeah, I'd hate to see you get in trouble.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Relax, Eddie.
unidentified		I'm going to file my taxes.
unidentified		I'm just not going to mail them in.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Ever heard of Telefile?
unidentified		Um... It's a terrific service from the IRS.
		It lets you file by phone.
		Only takes ten minutes.
		Yeah, so what's the catch?
ron jenkins ▲ ● ▼		No catch!
unidentified		No forms, no stamps, no mail.
		Just punch in your numbers and your taxes are filed.
		So what happens to your refund?
		Telefile works faster than paper.
		I can get my refund in about three weeks.
		Three weeks?
ron jenkins ▲ ● ▼		Yeah!
unidentified		That'll be me, riding my new bike to night school.
		Watch your mail for a telephile booklet.
		If you qualify, file by phone.
		Why make work you don't have to do?
		Have you noticed that everybody seems to be trying to simplify their lives?
		But gosh, it's a hard thing to do.
		We keep doing things that make our lives more and more complicated.
		That's why it's so refreshing to find a product like the GMX Magnetic Water Conditioning System.
		Now I've been telling you how the GMX system gets rid of all that ugly white scale on your faucets, shower heads, dishes, and swimming pool towel.
		And I told you how the GMX system can make your water heater last longer and eliminate mineral buildup inside your water pipes.
		And of course you'll have water that no longer feels hard.
		But you know the thing that really impresses me about the GMX is its simplicity.
		No salt, no filters, no electricity, no maintenance.
		It costs less than many of those complicated systems and it installs in minutes.
		That's what I call simplicity.
		There's even a 90-day no-hassle money-back guarantee and a lifetime warranty.
		840-60-GMX.
		That's 1-800-40-60-GMX.
		Tell them Wiseback told you to call.
		That's 1-800-4060-GMX. Tell them Weisbach told you to call.
		This is HealthBeat. Many people think it's more expensive to eat a low-fat, heart-healthy diet in order to lower
		blood cholesterol levels.
		But Columbia University professor of epidemiology Thomas Pearson says the opposite is true.
		When you think about it, chicken is cheaper than steak.
		Oatmeal is cheaper than bacon and egg.
		When you think about good, healthy foods, those don't have to be expensive foods.
		The National Cholesterol Education Program recommends that healthy Americans limit saturated fat to less than 10% of total calories, total fats to less than 30% of calories, and cholesterol consumption to less than 300 milligrams a day.
		A recent study found that a diet following those guidelines can result in substantial savings on grocery bills, an average of 75 cents per person per day.
		For more information on choosing and preparing heart-healthy foods, call 1-800-575-WELL.
		For the National Heart, Lung, and Blood Institute, I'm Bob Whitten.
		You are listening to the best of Arts Battle.
		the best of our staff.
		From the Kingdom of Nine, Coast to Coast AM continues with Art Bell.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Miss Buelich, are you there?
al bielek ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Um, I would like to get the audience involved, if you wouldn't mind.
al bielek ▲ ● ▼		Okay, uh, I'll just finish that statement.
unidentified		Yes.
al bielek ▲ ● ▼		That the large supercarriers have the capability, and it's even today down to a personnel-sized individual backpack, uh, belt pack, if you will, where an individual can become invisible.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, that's a disturbing thought.
unidentified		Yes.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		For the rest of us visible folk.
al bielek ▲ ● ▼		It's not a reality.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, we'll continue the discussion now, but let me get a little bit of some of the audience in on this.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Line one, you're on the air with Al Belick.
unidentified		I am.
		I was listening.
		Excuse my ignorance of physics, but I thought most of it, some of it just went over my head.
		Many people, I'm sure, have the same thing.
		Is there a way to succinctly describe how you made the ship invisible?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, he did that.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You mean for the layman?
unidentified		Yes.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Alright, that's a good question, sir.
		Thank you.
		Al, to the layman, how would you describe this?
al bielek ▲ ● ▼		You can describe it as a special combination of electric and magnetic fields rotating, which because of the choice of frequency, which was mathematically correct, it interacts with the gravity field and what it does.
		And that key issue then, according to the unified field theory, which has been completed
		and the government does have it since 1938, reinteracts with the time field.
		Now that gets into a long story, but I will state it very simply by saying you start to
		phase the ship out of our time reference and you phase it out far enough, the ship is still
		physically here in our reality, but what happens is the fields act in a manner so that energy
		is no longer reflected from that object.
		Now if you don't have a reflection, whether it be light or radar, you have no image.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So in a sense, in the first part of the experiment anyway, the ship actually was not invisible.
		It simply was enveloped in a field that created, either to radar or to visual frequencies, the appearance of invisibility.
		Is that about right?
al bielek ▲ ● ▼		That's correct.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And then in the later stages of the experiment, something radically different occurred, in which... That's correct.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		...space and time were shifted.
al bielek ▲ ● ▼		That's right.
		That was not intended.
		It was not part of the original experiment I set up.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Holy smokes.
		Out of state, you're on the air in Las Vegas with Al Belick.
		Where are you calling from, please?
unidentified		I'm calling from Little Rock, California.
al bielek ▲ ● ▼		Okay, go ahead.
unidentified		I don't have a really hard time believing this.
unidentified		How come we don't know the world already, then, if we have this kind of technology?
preston nichols ▲ ● ▼		All right.
preston nichols ▲ ● ▼		Actually, that's a very good question, Mr. Bialik.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		With this kind of technology that you say now is down to the point of a backpack and an individual becoming invisible, we are more or less owning the world.
al bielek ▲ ● ▼		Well, that depends upon who you consider is owning it, because you then get into a political arena involving who is really running the show in terms of a super-secret government.
		Who manipulated much of this technology, at least in the later phases.
		They did not in terms of the Philadelphia Experiment, because that was a homegrown experiment involving the Institute for Advanced Study in the Navy.
		But then it got into the phases after 1947, you then start running into political considerations, the UFO problem, a group called MJ-12, and the secret government.
		And the secret government is determined to have a one-world government, The so-called New World Order, which I'm sure everybody heard the term, promulgated by an abortion company, and this is the real gist of it.
		The secret government, they have control of all of this technology.
		We no longer, as a nation, really control all of that technology.
		We no longer, as a nation, have the kind of authority and position we once had.
preston nichols ▲ ● ▼		You alright, Colin?
unidentified		Uh, yeah, um, I, you know, like I said, I have a hard time, um, How do you deal with that?
		I have a strange experience when I was a young child once that I can't explain myself and
		it was very real to me.
		It has me thinking that this guy could be telling the truth but it's so hard to believe.
preston nichols ▲ ● ▼		I agree.
preston nichols ▲ ● ▼		Thank you.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Al, how do you deal with that?
		Do you find that people generally laugh you off, discard what you are saying or do most
		Now, the problem here is that, yes, there are a lot of people who have never heard the story before.
		the story. I mean it is incredible. This beats most UFO stories I've heard.
al bielek ▲ ● ▼		Well, I think you could say that in many respects it does.
		Now, the problem here is that, yes, there are a lot of people who have never heard the story
		before. They have not read any of the material that's been in the open literature since 1955
		dealing with the Philadelphia Experiment.
		There's much additional material I can give you on this, but nevertheless, the movie was
		It was released telling, basically, the story about a lot of Hollywood fill-in with a love story in the interest of animating around Nevada, Colorado.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		They can't make movies without love scenes.
unidentified		Right.
al bielek ▲ ● ▼		A lot of that never occurred.
		The beginning and the ending is, the beginning is very accurate, the ending is nearly accurate.
		Alright.
		There is a problem there.
		If you have not been exposed to this, yeah, how can this possibly be?
		I agree with the gentleman.
		To be hit with this all at once is... There's a skepticism, but do your research.
		Eventually you'll find enough information that you'll probably agree that it happened, because there is information available in spite of government suppression.
unidentified		All right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Line two, you're on the air with Al Belick in Phoenix, huh?
unidentified		Good morning.
		Good morning.
		There's a lot of questions, of course.
		It's kind of hard to... See, I want to ask one very important one.
		Do you have what you said in a book?
al bielek ▲ ● ▼		I'm sorry, what was that?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, do you have what you, uh, this story that you've just told us, have you written a book about it, Al?
al bielek ▲ ● ▼		Yes, as a matter of fact.
unidentified		What's the name of it?
al bielek ▲ ● ▼		It's an author with Brad Steiger in the book entitled The Philadelphia Experiment and Other UFO Conspiracies.
unidentified		Okay.
al bielek ▲ ● ▼		So when you go into the aspects from the 80s, there's more to it than just The Philadelphia Experiment.
unidentified		Sure there is.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Who publishes that, Al?
al bielek ▲ ● ▼		That's published by, uh, uh, let me, I think at the start of the morning my thinker isn't
al bielek ▲ ● ▼		working 100%.
unidentified		Would there be more than one book with that title?
al bielek ▲ ● ▼		Yes, that book was published and released in 1990, Inner Light Publications as a publisher.
unidentified		Enter Light?
unidentified		Inner Light.
al bielek ▲ ● ▼		Inner Light.
unidentified		Okay, and another question, is Dr. Von Neumann...
al bielek ▲ ● ▼		He did not die in 1957 as the public record states.
		It didn't get away from us in terms of invisibility.
		record states.
unidentified		Okay, another thing is if this is made into a weapon, would you say, I mean if we had
unidentified		that much going that far and it was in America, how did it get away from us?
al bielek ▲ ● ▼		It didn't get away from us in terms of invisibility.
al bielek ▲ ● ▼		We have shared it with others.
unidentified		Well are you saying then that some of the world leaders must all be in on it and they
		have gone and seen the future, therefore this is why they are so, you know, intent on making
		it one world because they feel that they have to or there won't be peace and people will
		be...
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's a good question, ma'am, and I'm going to wrap, thank you for the call, I'm going
		to wrap into that question a little bit.
		Al, is it possible to change what occurs in time?
al bielek ▲ ● ▼		Yes and no.
		Yes, you can if you know what you're doing, but the point is you're more concerned with altering the present by looking at the future in order to make the future come out the way the current ruling elite want it to come out.
		Changing the past is more difficult.
		It can be done, but it's very difficult.
		You get into problems with quantum mechanics and quantum physics.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I guess what I'm asking really is, these world leaders that are, according to you and others, in concert, heading us toward a one-world government, is there an inevitability about it, in that it's going to happen whether we like it or not, or can we change it between now and whenever it coalesces?
al bielek ▲ ● ▼		It can be changed.
		There's no such thing as it being cast in stone.
		Uh, they would like to see to the fact that it would become inevitable from their point of view.
		That's why they're trying to change time and events.
		By looking in the future, there is a project called the Project Looking Glass, which is a view into the future.
		There are other more complex machines today, built from the 70s onward, where they can travel in time as well as look in time.
		They have some, shall we say, some restrictions on that in terms of the future.
unidentified		All right, Al.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Out of state, you're on the air in Las Vegas with Al Belick.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Where are you calling from, please?
unidentified		I'm calling from Alaska.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Alaska, all right.
unidentified		I believe you're absolutely correct about who did the experiment, the New World Order of the International Bankers that took over our gold standard back in 1913.
		I'm sure you're absolutely right.
		I'm the guy that predicts earthquakes, and we're going to have some in September.
		Okay.
		Alright, any questions?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Any questions from Mr. Belick?
unidentified		Oh yeah, questions.
		I don't know how you're going to be able to prove anybody is telling the truth, but I don't know.
		I don't really have a question.
		Good luck.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Thank you.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Thank you.
al bielek ▲ ● ▼		Well, I can indirectly answer his question.
		Proof today of this is very difficult.
		The proof was almost in my hands several times, but let's say the government moved faster and got there first.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, they have lots of resources, Al.
al bielek ▲ ● ▼		They have vast resources, believe me.
unidentified		All right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Line 3, you're on the air with Al Belick.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Good morning.
unidentified		Yes, hi, Art and Al.
unidentified		Al, I'd like to know if you're related to the Dr. Cameron in Canada that was working with the CIA in mind control experiments.
al bielek ▲ ● ▼		Not that I know of.
		The family name is the same.
		Of course, I didn't tell the story of how I became albelic, but nevertheless, I am fully aware of the Cameron story in Canada and M.K.
		Alter and the whole CIA project up there.
		And believe me, when I visited Montreal to give a series of lectures about years ago, I asked this question of my host, and they heard of and knew of the Dr. Cameron, and he says, oh yes, we all know about him up here.
		And the Canadians were not pleased when they found out what was going on.
		Yes, as far as I know, he's not directly related.
unidentified		Okay, because his father was a Duncan Cameron, and he graduated from Glasgow.
		I thought you might be related.
		But did you say your brother, was he involved with the sodomy project, that Montauk project?
al bielek ▲ ● ▼		I'm sorry, what was that again?
unidentified		Your brother, was he...
unidentified		Was he involved with abducted boys who were, you know, the Fatimid Project, the Montauk Project?
al bielek ▲ ● ▼		Yes, he was involved with the Montauk Project.
		I was also, but I was albelic.
		And we were both involved, as well as some other people, including Preston Nichols.
		Duncan was heavily involved with the Montauk Project, that's true, but that is Duncan in the new body.
		That's another aspect of the story that's hard to go into, but he died in...
		In the project, in the 83, and he was born and replaced, shall we say, put into another body back in 1963, in which he'd been born in 51.
		To know metaphysics, it's hard to believe and accept, but nevertheless, the groups working with the government are very capable of, shall we say, shoving souls around and putting them anywhere as they want.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Where are you calling from, ma'am?
unidentified		Statler City.
		Okay, any other questions?
		No, that's fine.
		Thanks very much.
		Thank you very much, and good morning.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, you're beginning to get a bit metaphysical on us now, Al, but you say I'm sure it all winds together.
al bielek ▲ ● ▼		It all locks together, but I'll try to keep it to hard science and things which are directly observable.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, out of state, you're on the air with Al Belick in Phoenix.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Where are you calling from, please?
unidentified		Going from Alaska?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		From Alaska again, all right.
unidentified		OK.
unidentified		Go ahead.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, turn your radio off, sir.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's number one.
unidentified		Turn your radio off.
al bielek ▲ ● ▼		Your caller is weak on the line.
unidentified		I really have a question here.
		I hear these loose terms such as quantum mechanics and such and such, and if you're anywhere near familiar with quantum mechanics, you'll understand that any one event can set out the chain reaction of many other events in an ever-expanding cone down a timeline.
		This is as dictated by Stephen W. Hawking, one of the world's leading physicists, who claims that we have not got a Grand Unified Theory yet.
		My question is, how is he going to prove this?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, thank you.
unidentified		That's a good question.
al bielek ▲ ● ▼		I forgot the name Hawkins.
al bielek ▲ ● ▼		I have one of his books.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Right, I've read it as well.
		How are you going to endeavor to prove what you're saying?
		Or even any portion of it, Al?
al bielek ▲ ● ▼		Well, that's not easy.
		Quantum physics does make certain statements and then when the Navy engaged in certain
		experiments in 1973, which when I was given in a way of information, they wanted to go
		back in time and assassinate the man who was the father of the person they knew would be
		the new leader of the New World Order, they assumed that by assassinating the father before
		he married that the son alive today would disappear.
		They went back in the past, assassinated the man and the son didn't disappear, nothing
		happened to him.
		So they scratched their heads and they went to the physicist and said, aha, quantum physics,
		quantum mechanics and time is quantized as well as the physical universe, therefore you
		only affect the events in the area where you were.
		You do not affect the entire time stream until future.
		Now that is what their statement was.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So you create a temporary disturbance only?
al bielek ▲ ● ▼		But not a complete disruption.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And it kind of folds back into its original line?
al bielek ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
		But that's not entirely true.
		Because what they were using was a time machine which was operating on a single line reality only.
		Montauk was capable of encompassing all the alternate realities.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh my.
		Let's keep moving here.
		A lot of people want to talk to you, Al.
		Out of state, you're on the air with Al Belick in Phoenix.
		Where are you calling from, please?
al bielek ▲ ● ▼		Hello?
unidentified		Yes, I'm calling from Medford, Oregon.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Medford, Oregon, alright.
unidentified		Yes, let's see, the first question I had was...
unidentified		Let's see, back in the story there, the first, one of the things that he said was about Pearl Harbor's attack on the United States and that he was notified and pulled out before that attack.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		They got him out, yes.
al bielek ▲ ● ▼		Right.
unidentified		Why was there no, I mean, what about everybody else that was there?
unidentified		I just wonder why, you know, it just seems kind of unbelievable.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		No, that's a good question.
		Alex actually had enough knowledge to get you and your cohorts out, why not prepare for the Japanese attack and be
		ready?
al bielek ▲ ● ▼		There was a complete set up order by Roosevelt to have an attack on the United States in order to get us into the war.
al bielek ▲ ● ▼		That's the bottom line.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I've heard that one before.
al bielek ▲ ● ▼		I mean, there's plenty of evidence after the war was over when they started investigating the wreck.
al bielek ▲ ● ▼		It's newest published openly in the papers.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, we, I'm afraid we have to break here, folks.
unidentified		This is the CBC Radio Network.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I like the clarity of a digital phone.
		No more hum or disconnects or clicks.
		None of that baloney.
		Neighbors interfering with you sometimes.
		Their signal stronger than yours so that the person on the other end can't even hear you.
		All of that gone when you own a real digital phone.
		And I'm talking about the 900 NDL phone, and boy do we have it on sale.
		If Newt Gingrich had been using digital either as a cordless or cellular, he wouldn't be in all the big jam he's in right now.
		So yeah, I know a lot of people buy it for privacy, and it's a good reason, because nobody can hear you.
		Nobody.
		Not a soul.
		Try, I mean, get your own phone and listen on a scanner.
		It's up at 900 and, I think, Between 10 and 20 megahertz in that area.
		Way up above cellular.
preston nichols ▲ ● ▼		You can't hear a thing.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Nothing.
		A little rise in the noise level.
		Or what seems to be the white noise level.
		That's all.
		Totally indecipherable.
		So, that's a good reason to buy it.
		Or a distance.
		I can go a mile away from my home.
		The price right now.
		Overwhelmingly cheap for what it is. $129.95.
		$29.95, and believe me, that's a one-time insurance payment.
		If you follow me, you'll love this phone.
		You'll never let it go.
		The 900NBL from Vitek and Bob Crane.
		Call them at 730 in the morning Pacific Time at 1-800-522-8863.
		at 1-800-522-8863.
		That's 1-800-522-8863.
		The Sea Crane Company.
		How many times have you bought a great book but never got around to reading it?
		Waste of money, right?
		All because you don't have the time.
		Well, now you can enjoy all the wonderful stuff you've been missing.
		How?
		The Columbia House Audiobook Club.
		With audiobooks, you can listen to your favorite authors while you're driving, working around the house, whatever.
		To introduce you to the club, Columbia House will give you four of today's best-selling books on cassette for one penny Plus shipping and handling.
unidentified		You'll even get a fifth audiobook free if you pay by credit card.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And there's plenty to choose from.
		Best sellers like Deepak Chopra's Path to Love and John Gray's Men Are From Mars, Women Are From Venus.
		Do you like novels?
		How about Michael Crichton's thriller, Airframe?
		Or visit the hilarious world of office politics in The Dilbert Principle.
		To receive four audiobooks all for a penny, call 1 1-800-325-6921.
		Pay now by credit card.
		Get a fifth audiobook free.
		In return for introductory audiobooks, just buy four more in the next two years at regular club prices.
		Call now.
		1-800-325-6921.
		That's 1-800-325-6921.
		1-800-325-6921.
		A vice president, Al Gore, our vice president, said the following,
		Telecommunications industry is by all odds the single most important lucrative marketplace of the 21st century.
		Well, he sure is right.
		Microtech is a company developing something called SMR Specialized Mobile Radio.
		A great investment opportunity.
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unidentified		That's 1-800-444-1049.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		1-800-444-1049.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's 1-800-444-1049.
unidentified		And now, back to the best of Art Bell.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Let us keep moving if we can.
		Good morning, Line 1.
		You're on the air with Al Belick in Phoenix.
unidentified		Yes, good morning.
		Very interesting.
		I hope your guests can hear me.
		Three quick questions.
		Just a few weeks ago, a young colleague of Edward Teller's from Lawrence Livermore Labs said this story was bunk.
		Should I disbelieve him in the future about anything else?
		Two, you're right, they do have von Neumann who's dead in 1957.
		If he's alive now, he'd be about 90.
		Why did they have him dead?
		And are there other people you could name that they also had dead who were still alive?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, you better slow down here and we'd better get some answers.
unidentified		Let me get down to the chase here.
		What kind of models did you use for this?
		And what is to keep a contemporary electromagnetic buff from making his own model at home?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
		All right.
		Stay on the line, please.
preston nichols ▲ ● ▼		Al?
al bielek ▲ ● ▼		What's your name?
al bielek ▲ ● ▼		You spoke with a colleague at Telus who said the story was bunk.
unidentified		I didn't speak with him.
unidentified		He has a radio program of his own.
al bielek ▲ ● ▼		Okay.
		Well, you can... Also, we had a chorus there of a number of other scientists who also consider it bonk.
		H. Stanton Friedman, Bruce McAbee, etc.
		They are all part of the government disinformation team because they don't want the facts out.
		The government still denies to this day that that experiment ever took place.
		But if that's the case, then I'll ask you a question.
		Why have they made it under the revised Federal Felony Laws of 1987, the Felony Espionage Laws, a felony offense to talk about either the Philadelphia Experiment or the Eldridge on a Navy base?
		If there is nothing to it, why is it a felony offense to talk about it on a Navy base?
preston nichols ▲ ● ▼		Or, how about this?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		If it's a felony offense to talk about it, how come you're free?
al bielek ▲ ● ▼		Oh, I haven't talked about it on a Navy base, number one.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, on a Navy base, I see.
al bielek ▲ ● ▼		On a Navy base, correct.
preston nichols ▲ ● ▼		That's a good question.
al bielek ▲ ● ▼		Number two, what is the modeling for this?
unidentified		For Norman's death in 57.
al bielek ▲ ● ▼		Okay, Norman was dying of cancer and they pulled him out, cured him of the cancer, put him under what is well known as the Federal Protected Witnesses Program, gave him a new identity, and had him continue.
		He had to be alive and kept alive at least until 1983.
		Because of the involvement with the Montauk Project on the 12th of August, 1983.
		And he is still alive today.
		I've met with him.
		We've gone out to dinner.
		He unfortunately now has a problem of a split personality, and he's not very often in his right mind.
		And I think that is probably induced by the government for the sake of covering up.
		There are other people who have done this, too, also.
		I don't know if you're familiar with the story of a Dr. Frederick Koeppers, who was brought over to the United States as Project Paperclip in 1946-47.
		He also had a fake funeral in 1962 on Lincoln's birthday.
		I know his daughter very well, and she told me a rather interesting story.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, we're being pressed by the top of the hour here.
unidentified		Call her.
preston nichols ▲ ● ▼		You're fine.
al bielek ▲ ● ▼		There are others of the same nature.
		The government does this at their convenience for whatever reason.
		Well, as far as proof is concerned, that's quite difficult.
		The model of this thing is highly mathematical and involves going back into the history of people who developed the mathematics for it, Dr. Norman Levinson.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, Al, we're now on the news.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Can you stay another hour?
preston nichols ▲ ● ▼		Sure.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, stay right there.
		I'll be with my guest.
		We'll be back.
unidentified		Stay tuned for more of the best of Art Bound.
		Who doesn't?
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		1-800-829-4477. That's 1-800-829-4477 for Teletax. At the IRS, we want to help.
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		Things were really cooking at the safety belt stakeout.
		When we pinched him.
		Ouch!
ron jenkins ▲ ● ▼		Betty gives us a ticket.
unidentified		That's right, and don't call me Betty.
		But we never wear safety belts.
		We're dummies!
		Then here's something even you can understand.
ron jenkins ▲ ● ▼		For a good time, Carl.
unidentified		No, this.
ron jenkins ▲ ● ▼		A ticket?
unidentified		Police are now picketing low-life scum who don't wear safety belts, so buckle up.
		Surely you can give us a break?
		No, and don't call me Shirley.
		A message from the Department of Transportation and the Ad Council.
ron jenkins ▲ ● ▼		USA Radio Network News, this is Ron Jenkins.
		Astronauts Mark Lee and Stephen Smith have wrapped up spacewalk number five for the shuttle Discovery crew, putting a new insulating blanket around the Hubble Space Telescope and performing a couple of minor tweaking operations to finish the job.
		NASA thanking the crew for a job well done.
preston nichols ▲ ● ▼		It's been kind of amazing because all the nominal things have gone nominal, but there have been a lot of other things to keep everybody working hard.
		And I'll also say we right now are getting a beautiful view with the elbow camera of the Hubble telescope.
		It's actually, externally I have to say, it's not quite as beautiful as we left it three years ago, but we all know that beauty is only skin deep.
ron jenkins ▲ ● ▼		Hubble will be put back in orbit tonight, then the electronics will be tested and if everything goes right, the crew will turn it loose and move away to prepare for the journey home.
		Kenneth Starr, Special Whitewater Prosecutor, is leaving that post.
		He'll take over as Dean of Pepperdine University in California.
		Starr insists that does not mean the Whitewater investigation will end, but he does admit he doesn't know who's going to take over when he leaves.
		He's in the Special Division of the U.S.
unidentified		Court of Appeals.
ron jenkins ▲ ● ▼		We're talking many months from now.
		Starr won't start his Pepperdine job until August 1st.
		And tensions are mounting on the Korean Peninsula despite indications from North Korea that it may accept the defection of a high-ranking diplomat.
		This is USA Radio News.
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ron jenkins ▲ ● ▼		1-800-617-6430.
		The President heads for the Big Apple on Tuesday to appear at a Democratic Party fundraiser.
		USA's John Decker has details.
unidentified		He estimated one million dollars that will be taken in from donors will benefit the Democratic Senatorial Campaign Committee.
		In the face of House and Senate investigations into campaign fundraising, a White House spokesman said Tuesday's event is entirely within the limits of the law.
		Meanwhile, Senator John McCain, a sponsor of a campaign finance reform bill, ...is demanding that Attorney General Janet Reno appoint an independent counsel to investigate possible Democratic fundraising improprieties.
		John Decker, USA Radio News, Washington.
ron jenkins ▲ ● ▼		An American airline spokesman says two and a half million people called the airline switchboards Monday, hoping to take advantage of an airfare war.
		America slashed its prices by as much as half after President Clinton intervened early Saturday to stop a strike by American pilots.
		Four major airlines joined in the cost-cutting move, and the war was on.
		This is USA Radio News.
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ron jenkins ▲ ● ▼		A Georgian diplomat accused of killing a 16-year-old American girl might not serve his time in this country, but
		rather in the Soviet Union.
		Or the former Soviet Union.
		USA's Connie Lawn has more.
unidentified		The State Department is delighted that diplomatic immunity has been waived for the Georgian diplomat accused of causing the death of a 16-year-old girl in Washington.
		But the State Department appears to have worked out a compromise.
		It could allow the diplomat to serve his prison time in his native country.
		The U.S.
		Justice Department will first prosecute him.
		Under American law, he could receive 30 years in jail on charges of drunken driving and manslaughter.
		Connie Law on USA Radio News, Washington.
ron jenkins ▲ ● ▼		The celebration is on in the Netherlands for Black Jack.
		Black Jack is the latest effort by tulip growers in that country to develop a black tulip.
		They say this one is the darkest ever.
		It's been a 15-year quest.
		Ron Jenkins on the USA Radio Network.
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		Tonight, while Art Bell is resting, recovering from the cold he caught flying home from Mexico,
		Chancellor Broadcasting Company presents the absolute best of Art Bell.
		We take you way back to the scratchy analog days of 1993 to vintage Art Bell in his classic three-hour interview with Al Belick, followed by two hours with Preston Nichols and the subsequent Montauk experiment.
		Yes, Mr. Bell, thank you for having me on.
		I just caught this on my way home, ran home real quick to get it so if this is a stupid
		question that has already been asked I was just kind of curious and I'll hang up and
		take the answer on the air, on my radio.
		Did President Kennedy's death have anything to do with this?
		I'm sorry?
al bielek ▲ ● ▼		Who is?
unidentified		The assassination of President Kennedy.
		Was that involved with the government?
		Any part of this experiment with either bringing him back?
al bielek ▲ ● ▼		Not to my knowledge.
unidentified		Okay, and as for going into the future, is his death ever solved?
al bielek ▲ ● ▼		Is his death ever resolved?
		Solved.
		Solved.
		That's pretty well solved now.
		I don't think one has to go much further into the future because enough records have been released.
		Enough movie films have fairly well nailed it down.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Right.
		Thank you, Cora.
		And to pursue this just a little bit, why would it not be possible, Al, to go back and stop the assassination?
al bielek ▲ ● ▼		That's a good question.
		Theoretically, it might be.
		I don't know if there has ever been any attempt or desire in any way to make the attempt to do it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I can see that a relatively unknown person would make a relatively small ripple in time.
al bielek ▲ ● ▼		Right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		But my God, President Kennedy, if you were to change that and he was not assassinated, would cause a gigantic explosion in time.
al bielek ▲ ● ▼		Yes, he would.
		It would cause an enormous upheaval because of the fact of what he was doing and the reasons why he was assassinated.
		Because he wanted to eliminate the Fed and print U.S.
		notes.
		He wanted the CIA to reveal the fact that they were not only in drug business, but they were also, the other group, suppressing the facts about UFOs and ATs.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, I do understand he had signed an executive order that would have had a big effect on the Fed, and that that was then reversed by Johnson.
al bielek ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
		Yeah, and he also already had issued a large number of U.S.
		notes, which is legal tender under our Constitution.
		So, he had a number of people who were out for his head, so to speak, and eventually they didn't get it.
		All right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		We've got to keep moving here.
		Very quickly, out of state, where are you calling from, please?
		Hello?
		No, you're not.
		Line 2, you're on the air with Al Belick in Las Vegas.
unidentified		Good morning.
		Yeah, I'm pretty much on the believing side of time travel and Philadelphia experiments, stuff like that.
		I had a question.
		The time field that the modern day I understand what you mean.
		And you sense the feel that somebody's playing this game.
		That I can't answer.
		any type of equipment to be able to sense the disturbance in the time continuum when
		they would use it?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, that's a good question.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Is there a way to detect time travel in progress now?
unidentified		In progress?
al bielek ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, in other words...
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, I understand what you mean.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		To detect the presence of the field.
al bielek ▲ ● ▼		And you sense the field if somebody's playing this game?
unidentified		Yeah.
al bielek ▲ ● ▼		That I can't answer.
		I don't know.
		Theoretically, anything's possible, but I don't know of any way at this point where
		There should be sensing means for determining when somebody is playing a game of some sort with the time field, but I don't know.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Anything else, Kohler?
unidentified		Yeah.
unidentified		On the time machines that are, like, for the modern day, do they still use, like, a magnetic field?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay, thank you, caller.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Are they still using a magnetic field, was the question.
al bielek ▲ ● ▼		You mean for this type of work?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
al bielek ▲ ● ▼		I can't answer what they're doing in terms of current technology, because it's gone through many generations.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Surely the experiment with the Eldridge would have been very detectable.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		In fact, with the kind of power that you were transmitting at 160 megahertz, that alone would have been detectable for Yes, with today's equipment, there would be no question it could have been detected.
al bielek ▲ ● ▼		And, of course, with radar equipment for that frequency only, the receivers, they would pick it up.
al bielek ▲ ● ▼		But after the ship became radar invisible, of course, then they couldn't pick up the field anymore because it had already unfolded on itself and done the time phase shift number.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So it was gone, literally?
al bielek ▲ ● ▼		That's right.
al bielek ▲ ● ▼		The field was not detectable after a certain point.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
		Very quickly, Line 2, you're on the air with Al Belick in Las Vegas.
		Where are you calling from, please?
		Line 2?
		No, you're not there.
		Out of state.
		Good morning, you're on the air.
al bielek ▲ ● ▼		Hello?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Where are you calling us from, sir?
		Oh, Ooga Booga Land.
		Oh, I don't think we'll deal with that.
		Line 3, you're on the air with Al Belick.
unidentified		Dr. Belick, I have a question.
unidentified		What is the name of the fundamental set of equations that govern classical electromagnetism?
al bielek ▲ ● ▼		I'm sorry, would you repeat the question?
unidentified		What is the name of the set of equations that govern classical electromagnetism?
al bielek ▲ ● ▼		Well, if you go into classical electromagnetism, you're going to find that there are discrepancies there, and it does not agree with some of the work... I'd just like to know the name of the set of the equations.
al bielek ▲ ● ▼		I couldn't give you all of that information.
unidentified		Okay, well, then that's fine, because the name is Maxwell's Equations, which probably any sophomore in physics now may understand.
		I understand.
		Okay, and, um, I find, um... I know Max Dresden, who was John von Neumann's graduate student, I was with him at the University of Canberra.
		He talked about being at the Von Neumann Funeral in 1957, sir.
		I have heard of Dr. Friedman, who was at the Linear Collider out at Stanford.
		I've heard him speak.
		He seems like a very credible person.
		I have spoken with him just very briefly.
		I've been to a couple of his lectures.
		He seems very credible.
		And, um, thirdly, I'd like to point out something, that it is possible to distort space-time, but you need something that has a very, very large mass, such as a black hole.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So, I have to say this, David, I don't... Alright, hold on, let him respond.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You just said the only way to distort it was a black hole or an event horizon.
unidentified		Well, it's basically a large mass.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, I understand.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Alright, Al, go ahead and answer that.
al bielek ▲ ● ▼		Well, that's in terms of current thinking and where they're admitting maybe time travel is possible in terms of classical physics as it's viewed today.
		It does not require a large mass.
		It requires manipulation of the three basic elements of our field theory.
		If you manipulate three, namely electric field, gravitic field, and tachyon field, you then manipulate the fourth, which is the time field.
		It does take power, but it does not take mass.
		Mass has nothing to do with it, and mass is a misnomer in terms of the real physics, if you ever went through it.
		Because what they teach today in the universities, in terms of electromagnetic theory and physics, is largely garbage.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
		Out of state, you're on the air with Al Belick in Phoenix.
		Good morning.
		Where are you calling from, please?
		Hello, out of state, are you there?
		Somebody's got their radio on.
		Last opportunity, are you there?
		You're at line one, you're on the air.
unidentified		Yeah, I thought I'd ask questions for your guests.
		So then the government could send someone into the future to learn anything they want, I would suppose.
		And what would the aliens think about humans having such capabilities now?
al bielek ▲ ● ▼		Well, in terms of that, they were part and parcel of the Montauk Project.
		So that they were, in that sense, aiding and abetting the project.
		They were assisting in terms of the Montauk project, in terms of the more standardized time travel.
		That was not alien technology, that was homegrown technology here on Earth.
		The Germans, prior to the end of World War II, had functioning time machines.
		Von Neumann had one in a laboratory in 1944.
		And the work that's been done since then, after the war was over, Has in part been strictly homegrown technology, that is Earth technology, and in a larger sense, there has been contributions by aliens because of the agreement and the treaty that was made in 1954 with Eisenhower.
preston nichols ▲ ● ▼		All right, caller.
unidentified		Thank you.
preston nichols ▲ ● ▼		Thank you.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Out of state, very quickly, you're on the air with Al Belick in Phoenix.
unidentified		Good morning.
preston nichols ▲ ● ▼		I had a question about the 3839 death ray test.
		All right.
		Okay.
		What exactly was the extent of those tests and where those tests lead us to now?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, the death ray, Al.
al bielek ▲ ● ▼		That was tested in White Sands, New Mexico, test range 3839, according to second-hand information from witnesses who were there.
		And what happened was they had a very large laser-like device that Tesla had designed It emitted a green ray according to the eyewitnesses and any object it was aimed at.
		It was a pulse discharge device with huge capacitor banks.
		It took a certain finite period of time to charge up the capacitors after firing.
		They aimed it at a truck or a tank that turned green and disappeared.
		And the last test they apparently aimed at a... They didn't try at animals too, but they aimed it at a mountaintop.
		From what I'm told, the mountaintop disappeared.
		And that was a little too much for the military.
		People in charge of the test, their story is that they ordered the equipment destroyed and the notes buried.
		I find it hard to believe myself that if they had a weapon of that capability that they would bury it and destroy it.
preston nichols ▲ ● ▼		So it was basically virtually disintegrated an object.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, thank you.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		In other words, it made things disappear.
al bielek ▲ ● ▼		Actually, more than just disappear, Al, they... Were gone permanently.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Gone permanently.
		With the earlier caller, Mr. Critic, who was on earlier, I am not a physicist.
		Now, I've got a little basic electronics, or maybe more than a little, and I've worked in microwave, and I know a little bit about magnetism, but I don't know the equations that govern magnetism.
		Well, they have it, but he said, he said, what were they?
		Any sophomore would know in physics, and I don't know.
		So, how do you answer that?
al bielek ▲ ● ▼		The question was rather ambiguous in the first place.
		Yes, you can quote Maxwell and Maxwell's equations, but the problem there is you have to go back to the original Maxwell equations as published well over a hundred years ago, and not the truncated version taught in universities today, which were derived by Heaviside in 1875.
		And you also have to consider Dr. Hertz and his Hertzian waves, and the theory which he expounded and the current basic
		theory which is taught in the universities which is partly correct and partly incorrect.
		One of the things I teach you, which you may remember yourself from all of your work,
		is that the electromagnetic wave, as a radio wave, the magnetic component is propagated at the same rate as
		the electric field.
		That is not true.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		No, it is not true?
al bielek ▲ ● ▼		No.
		The magnetic field is propagated at a rate of 0.6 that of the electric field in a combined radio wave, which is a first-order wave electromagnetically.
		And a radio wave is propagated, according to theory, at the speed of light.
		And, of course, you get into an argument there as, what is the speed of light?
		It is not a constant.
		It is on the Earth in the manner in which we, or methods by which we have measured it.
		But Einstein himself denied that it was a constant, said he was misquoted, that he never said it was a constant other than on Earth, on the electromagnetic field as we know it here on Earth, and on the conditions in which we have measured it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, we certainly know that magnetism affects light, as evidenced by what a black hole does with light.
al bielek ▲ ● ▼		That's true.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Alright, let's keep moving here.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Line 2, you're on the air with Al Belick.
unidentified		Yes, I'd like to know the name of the man who was assassinated in 1973 to prevent the future birth, and also the name of the members of the secret New World Order government.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Alright, well, one at a time here.
		That's quite a tall order.
		The name of the man who was assassinated, Al.
al bielek ▲ ● ▼		In 1973?
unidentified		Yes.
al bielek ▲ ● ▼		I do not have that name as to who the man was.
		Insofar as the members of the Secret World Order are concerned, I recommend that you acquire a copy of John Coleman's book entitled The Conspirator's Hierarchy of the Committee of 300.
		He lays it all out there in exact terms and names all of the people who were part of the Committee of 300, past and present.
		And it's a very interesting, concise, and informative book on the political conspiracies and how they, all of these organizations, like CFR, Trilateral Commission, Build-A-Burgers, Club of Rome, Illuminati, the wonderful little Skull and Bones organization, why they all fit together.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, ma'am.
unidentified		Thank you.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Thank you.
		Let's see, do we have enough time?
		Line three, you're on the air with Al Belick in Phoenix.
		Good morning.
unidentified		Hi, I'd like to know if the electromagnetic disturbances in the Bermuda Triangle are related to experiments such as in Philadelphia.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, that is a good question.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Where are you calling from, sir?
unidentified		San Francisco Bay Area in California.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		What about it, Al?
al bielek ▲ ● ▼		Answer is no.
		The disturbances in the Bermuda Triangle are still a matter of conjecture.
		When Ivan Sanderson was alive, and I worked with him on that, Uh, he was of the opinion that it was a natural phenomenon because there are 12 such areas on the planet Earth forming an essentially perfect geodesic grid.
		And that's part of the complete grid and ley line system of the Earth, but these are the 12 primaries.
		The second most active one on the Earth is over in the Japan Sea, east of the islands of Japan, and they've lost some pretty big ships in there too.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, that will have to serve as an answer, so the answer caller is no.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Thank you very much, and I'll hold on just a moment.
unidentified		This is the CBC Radio Network.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Do you have hard water?
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		Dishes, ceramic tiles, and toilet bowls?
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ron jenkins ▲ ● ▼		Well, stop!
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Stop worrying.
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		1-800-4060-GMX.
		And guess what?
unidentified		The GMX special offer is still open.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		If you buy the GMX magnets, they'll send you free.
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		Call 1-800-4060-GMX.
		1-800-4060-GMX. That's 1-800-4060-GMX.
		This offer won't last forever, so call now.
		For absolutely fresh flowers.
		Now, did you send your Valentine some flowers?
		You did, right?
		Well, if you did, you know how good a deal it is.
		All year long.
		It is a flower farm in Southern California.
		All they grow is miniature carnations.
		Far as the eye can see, miniature carnations, and they're beautiful, and you get some You know, the deal is just incredible.
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		Great for anniversaries, birthdays, any kind of special event at all.
		They're available 24 hours a day.
unidentified		Try it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's FedEx, by the way.
		Next day, FedEx during the week.
		You call today, they deliver tomorrow.
		1-800-562-6438.
		That's 1-800-562-6438.
		Absolutely fresh flowers.
		Are you making too many trips to the bathroom?
		If you are, you know that.
		And you're not alone.
		Loss of libido, sex drive, yet another symptom.
		Well, here's the guy who can help you out.
		Dr. Michael Kaplinsky.
		Over the years, in his medical practice, he's put together a kind of a soup of all natural things that he has found to actually clinically affect the size of the prostate, and then obviously the symptoms.
		So, if you have those symptoms, short of surgery, here's something you're going to want to try.
		Alright?
		You buy two bottles, you get a third one, free.
		Run us!
		That means you are now in possession of a three-month supply for the price of two.
unidentified		What you do is try it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Take it for three months.
		If your symptoms are not better, you get your money back.
		It's a straightforward ironclad deal.
		The number to call right now 1-800-249-6060.
		It's offered by a company called Physicians Choice.
		And the number again, 1-800-249-6060.
		Good morning, everybody.
		Welcome back to the show.
		I'm Art Bell.
		My guest is Al Belick.
		If you've been listening carefully, the man told you how to build something to cause something to disappear or travel in time.
		Uh, or travel in space.
		And, uh, Al, if somebody were to take what you have described, uh, technically, as an outline, the, uh, RF field, the rotating magnetic field, and, uh, would you advise them, don't try this at home?
al bielek ▲ ● ▼		I definitely advise them, don't try it at home.
		Besides, you would never get it to work without certain other key elements that are involved, which are very difficult to get in the way of hardware.
		Well, the system encompassed more than that.
		It had a zero-time reference generator, and that was something which Tesla himself developed in the 20s, and is used today in every piece of equipment built for the FAA, and a lot of other government craft.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Could you remake this?
al bielek ▲ ● ▼		I could possibly, but I don't think I would want to, because the form of field that was created was incorrect, was wrong.
		In other words, an open toroid.
		Though the toroid shape was closed, the field was open in the sense that anything in the middle where the effect takes place is not shielded from outside influence, and that was the problem.
		The Eldridge was not shielded from outside influence.
		If they'd used a form of a closed oblate spheroid ship field, I'm sorry, then the ship would have been shielded, and that required a lot more theory, and while the theory was available, the electromagnetic complications in terms of hardware We're far beyond what they wanted to handle at that time.
unidentified		All right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Hold it there, Al.
		Let's go out of state.
		You're on the air with Al Belick.
		Where are you calling from, please?
unidentified		Yes, I'm calling from California.
		I would like to ask Mr. Belick, time and space fold like an accordion.
		Is this what I'm kind of understanding?
al bielek ▲ ● ▼		No, it doesn't fold like an accordion under normal usage.
		There are ways of folding it, if you will, which certain alien groups know,
		and apparently use that as a means of propulsion in their ships if the stories are correct.
		But normally it is not folded.
		It's, you can envision it more like one of these Charles Taurers, a helix,
		in which there are waves going through time.
		And normally it is a very smooth, even transition, and even transmission, but it can be disturbed.
		And there are things which will disturb it, like the lockup of two experiments,
		or a thermonuclear device that's large enough will break the continuity fairly.
		you But otherwise, it's a smooth transition, a smooth flow.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		An atomic explosion does create a large electromagnetic pulse, doesn't it?
al bielek ▲ ● ▼		And a thermonuclear device, a hydrogen bomb, is the one that creates the huge pulse.
		Well, then I have a question.
		small one but not of any great significance. Well then I have a question. Could that conceivably
art bell ▲ ● ▼		then through just happenstance a large hydrogen bomb exploding?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Could it create a time-space disturbance?
al bielek ▲ ● ▼		Very definitely it does.
al bielek ▲ ● ▼		It was tested and measured as such in Nantowichok in 1954.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Anything else, ma'am?
unidentified		No, you're doing a wonderful job with this.
		We're just right with you.
		Thank you.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Thank you.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And thank you very much for the call.
unidentified		All right, Al.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		We're going to just take a very brief break here and then go raging through a lot of calls.
		A lot of people want to talk to you.
		Stay right there, Al Belick.
		We now pause while some additional stations Join the network.
		Good morning everybody.
		This is as wild a one as you may ever hear and it's coming from Phoenix and Albion.
unidentified		We'll be right back.
		Stay tuned for more vintage art now coming up right after these messages.
		♪♪ ♪♪
		This is CBC.
		♪♪ Thank you.
		And now, here's to your health news and nutrition update.
		The controversy over screening for prostate cancer continues to rage.
		Recently, researchers at the University of Toronto concluded that it was inadvisable to test men with no overt symptoms of prostate cancer.
		Screening for prostate cancer leads to invasive procedures resulting in a negative effect on the quality of life.
		Screening with the PSA, Prostate Specific Antigen Blood Test, And the transrectal ultrasound resulted in a very small increase in life expectancy of men between 50 and 70 years of age.
		The net loss in quality of life from incontinence, impotence, and rectal injuries far outweighed the increase in life expectancy, and the dreaded digital rectal examination produced no reduction at all in death from prostate cancer.
		A recent look at cholesterol lowering drugs concluded that their use in patients with only mildly elevated cholesterol levels does not halt the development of atherosclerosis or hardening of the arteries in heart disease patients.
		There was no significant difference in the progression of the hardening of the arteries between the treated group and the placebo group at the end of the treatment period.
		In both groups, the diameter of the artery scan continued to narrow.
		The white bark of the birch tree was the recent focus of study at the Pharmacy School at the University of Illinois in Chicago.
		A compound named betulinic acid was identified that demonstrated the ability to shrink human melanoma tumors in lab animals.
		The birch bark compound outperformed the most widely prescribed drug commonly used to treat this dangerous skin cancer.
		And good news for those who suffer from the greatest on-the-job hazard of modern day Carpal Tunnel Syndrome.
		200,000 new cases are becoming reported each year.
		When the soft tissue in the wrist becomes inflamed, the pressure on the nerve results in numbness and debilitating pain in the arms and hands.
		Doctors typically recommend braces, anti-inflammatory drugs, or surgery in an attempt to relieve the pressure on the nerve.
		A recent study evaluated Carpal Tunnel Syndrome sufferers who practice yoga twice a week for 10 weeks.
		Slow, progressive postures and stretches, which focus on neck, shoulder, and upper body flexibility, and extending the range of hand motion, resulted in a reduction in tenderness and swelling, less pain, and increased grip strength.
		What a reward for the money and time invested.
		And that's the news and nutrition update from Here's to Your Health.
		Good health.
		It's as close as your radio.
		This is Talk Radio Network.
		for.
		A war against alternative medicine?
		Sounds like a conspiracy.
		Crazy?
		No, its members are administrators of powerful medical groups, well-placed state and federal agency officials paid off by the pharmaceutical and health insurance industries, and sham citizens groups.
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		The occasion?
		The 84th annual meeting of the Federation of State Medical Boards.
		The focus?
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		Watch and be wary.
		The program is devoted to a no-holds-barred assault on alternative medicine docs.
		You'll hear the obvious.
		Alternative medicine is shaking the money tree, and conventional medicine is not happy.
		But there's lots more.
		Get your own copy of the tape proceedings.
		Just send $3 to TAPE, A-H-T-A, 5419 Western Avenue, Oklahoma City, Oklahoma, 73109.
		It's your opportunity to hear how important medical freedom initiatives are to each and every one of us.
		Order your tape today.
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	You're listening to an encore performance of Coast to Coast AM with Art Bell.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Line 2, are you there?
al bielek ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Where are you calling from, sir?
unidentified		Uh, Las Vegas.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Alright, go ahead.
unidentified		I don't buy it.
		I, uh, you know, when I was in college, I minored in physics.
		I majored in electrical engineering.
		And, um, everything that you've said is bunk.
al bielek ▲ ● ▼		Well, you're entitled to your opinions.
unidentified		No, it's not an opinion.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		What specifically, if you're going to say this sort of thing, sir, is bunk?
unidentified		Or what can you prove to be bunk?
		Okay, your statement that Maxwell's equations, you know, are not complete... Oh, were you on the air earlier?
		Yes, but not on the air earlier.
		Okay.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, you then go on.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Your statement that Maxwell's equations were not complete...
unidentified		Uh, you know, you said that they were not complete.
		Well, I have a book here, it's called, you know, Engineering Electromagnetics, that derives Maxwell's equations step-by-step, you know, going back to Coulomb's Law.
		There is nothing missing there.
		And secondly, your contention that, you know, you would need... Well, let's take them one at a time.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Do you want to answer that, Al?
preston nichols ▲ ● ▼		Okay.
al bielek ▲ ● ▼		Now, are you familiar with Tom Bearden?
al bielek ▲ ● ▼		Thomas J. Bearden.
preston nichols ▲ ● ▼		Are you familiar with Mr. Bearden, caller?
unidentified		No, but I can't really hear what the other fellows say.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I understand.
unidentified		All right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You'll have to listen on the air then.
		Thank you.
		All right, Al.
		I'll go right ahead.
		What does Mr. Bearden have to do with this?
al bielek ▲ ● ▼		Roger Bearden has gone through that also and derives the fact that the original Maxwell equations as written by Maxwell in the handwritten versions, which are well over 100 years old, are not What is currently taught in the universities because Dr. Heaviside in 1875 because they were hard to understand and they could not accept the idea that in the denominator E as the electrostatic field was in Maxwell's original equation stated that it propagates instantaneously throughout the universe which would immediately violate all of the ideas of relativity and C being the limiting speed of everything in the universe.
		So that part has been eliminated, basically, from most of the college texts.
		Now, you may have some texts that show the original.
		I am not familiar with every book that's around.
		But nonetheless, they normally teach the truncated version developed by Heaviside in 1875, which was an attempt to simplify those equations and make them more understandable.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
		All right.
		Well, you're over my head.
		Good morning.
		Out of state, you're on the air with Al Belick in Phoenix.
unidentified		I need to know all I can find out about Nikola Tesla.
unidentified		I think he's one of the greatest people that ever lived, and I really want to know all about him.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, where are you calling from?
unidentified		I called earlier from Alaska, but I did have a question.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, now, you know, one call per customer, folks.
unidentified		So I'm just going to pass that one by.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Line 3, you're on the air.
bourbon in missouri ▲ ● ▼		Hello?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Hello, where are you calling from, sir?
unidentified		Calling from, uh, uh, San Diego, California.
		Alright, fine.
		That's right by the border, and I'm not at all skeptical, but please answer these three very brief questions for me.
		Uh, you were about to tell us who shot JFK, and you got interrupted.
		Please tell us who shot him and why.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Alright, stop, stop.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Who shot JFK, Al?
al bielek ▲ ● ▼		Best, uh, testimony and, uh, enhanced pictures taken as a brooder in other films indicate that it was done by the driver.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh yes, that theory.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That the driver did it, sir.
unidentified		Okay, then please tell me if ex-President George Bush is a part of the New World Order, why did he allow himself to lose the election?
		And my third brief question is, is President Clinton now, is he part of it?
		Does he have all this information?
		And is he going to be successful?
		And I find it hard to believe that George Bush would allow himself to lose that power All right.
		All right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Thank you.
al bielek ▲ ● ▼		They saw, too, namely with Mr. George Bush.
		He was part of the New World Order.
		He does not run it.
		He was one of the pawns in the gears in the works, if you will.
		He had a great deal of power.
		He was former director of the CIA before he became president.
		And he knew a great many things, but he also was limited in his power.
		He took orders.
		He took orders from a higher authority in this country, and so does Clinton.
		Now, where Clinton is going to go with all of this is hard to say, because the scenario is not determined by the President.
		It is no longer determined by the Congress or the Senate.
		They are dictated to up and down the line, and you really have to get the book, the Committee of 300, and other material to understand how this whole thing is orchestrated.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Mr. Clinton is being manipulated as well, then?
al bielek ▲ ● ▼		Yes, Clinton is being manipulated.
al bielek ▲ ● ▼		In fact, he was bought and sold, I'm sorry to say, before he became governor of the state of Arkansas.
unidentified		All right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Line 1, you're on the air with Al Belick.
		Good morning.
		Where are you calling from, please?
unidentified		I'm calling from California.
al bielek ▲ ● ▼		All right.
unidentified		This is a fascinating program.
		Unfortunately, we missed a good part of it.
		Is it possible to buy a tape on it?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
		We have somebody.
		In fact, after the program is over, I'll tell you how you can get a copy, all right?
unidentified		Thank you.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
		Thank you.
		Out of state, you're on the air with Al Belick.
		Where are you calling from, please?
unidentified		In Washington.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		In Washington.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, go ahead.
unidentified		How are you doing tonight?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Fine.
unidentified		I laid down to go to sleep at 1 o'clock and put this show on and laughed as long as I could, and I'm wide awake, let me tell you.
		I have a few questions for Al.
		First off, are you familiar with William Cooper?
al bielek ▲ ● ▼		Oh, yes.
unidentified		And do you agree with most of what he says, or disagree with a lot of what I've heard you say?
al bielek ▲ ● ▼		I agree with much of what he says in terms of the political sense.
		I think this information has been basically very accurate.
		There is some dispute, of course.
		He is the one that has pushed the theory and the idea based on the films that he has shown that Mr. Greer, the driver, was the man that ultimately assassinated President Kennedy.
		There were others who fired shots.
		There's no question of that.
unidentified		I've seen Cooper's films.
al bielek ▲ ● ▼		Right.
unidentified		And Greer definitely pulled the trigger.
al bielek ▲ ● ▼		Right.
		Now, even if you go back to the 1963 photos published On the original Zapruder films in Life Magazine, you can clearly see, though, that they're not enhanced.
		You can see that the driver had his hands off the wheel, and the Secret Service man in the right seat had his hand on the wheel.
		That even shows in the original Zapruder films published by Life Magazine.
		But nevertheless, there is still some dispute as to whether or not Breer was the final and ultimate assassin.
		There are others who claim there was somebody on the know who fired the fatal shot.
		Because there was more than one shot came in at that low angle.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, Colin.
		Thank you.
		Al, you know, they just buried John Connolly.
		And there are a lot of people who wanted the fragments in Connolly's body examined.
		The family of Governor Connolly did not.
		So he apparently has been buried without examination.
		Would you urge that they exhume that body and take a look at those fragments so we might be able to settle this once and for all?
al bielek ▲ ● ▼		I think that's something that I would not feel qualified to answer in terms of whether or not you're going to find out much out from this body, because after all, the body's buried.
		It deteriorates fairly rapidly.
		The examination would have had to have been made virtually at the time of death or shortly thereafter.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		But surely the fragments will not deteriorate.
al bielek ▲ ● ▼		If there are bullet fragments, they will not.
al bielek ▲ ● ▼		That's true.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Line 2, you're on the air with Al Bilek in Phoenix.
unidentified		Thank you very much.
		Apparently the Gremlins are at work.
		KQMS stopped hearing you at 3 a.m.
		Mr. Bilek, Mr. Charles Bearden, are you familiar with him?
al bielek ▲ ● ▼		I'm sorry, which one?
unidentified		Charles Bearden.
		Yes.
		Is free energy, do you think that's on?
al bielek ▲ ● ▼		Free energy is a vast subject and a number of people have been involved in research on this and not only from a theoretical standpoint but also from the hardware standpoint have made various pieces of hardware work.
		More work has been done on this in Europe and Japan and then in the U.S.
		England.
		Okay.
		Thomas Searle is one that has been successful.
		Dr. Seiko of Japan may have been successful but he's very tight-lipped, if you will.
		Uh-huh.
		And Thomas E. Bearden has published a considerable amount on this subject.
		There have been others like the Dini.
		There's a whole host of names of people.
		Bruce D. Palmer on his end machine.
		Of course, the end machine goes back to Faraday 200 years ago for the basic principle.
		And that has been published and was published and is known that he developed, though he didn't understand why it worked.
unidentified		Right.
al bielek ▲ ● ▼		So, yes, the free energy is a misnomer in another sense.
		There is no such thing as free lunch.
		The energy comes from somewhere else.
		The problem is understanding where it comes from and why.
unidentified		How about T. Henry Murray, CEO of Energy Around Us?
al bielek ▲ ● ▼		Murray was very successful.
al bielek ▲ ● ▼		OK.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
al bielek ▲ ● ▼		Thank you very much.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Thank you, Colin.
		You're on the air with Al Belick.
		Where are you calling from, please?
unidentified		I'm in the Bay Area in California.
		OK, go ahead.
		Just a quick question.
		Based on the knowledge that you now have, Is the stories that we have in the Bible, are they essentially true or not true, or is it just stories?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, the Bible, real or just a good story?
al bielek ▲ ● ▼		I think historically, if you're a listener referring to the Book of Revelations or to the Older Testament... Well, why don't you deal with both?
		Right.
		In terms of the Old Testament, I think you'll find that historically much of that information is correct.
		The problem is how far back you take it because you are missing many of the books in the Old Testament, the books of the Apocrypha and others which are available separately, which show an additional, much older history than is otherwise recognized.
		Adam and Eve are, in my sense, allegorical.
		They were not necessarily real as being the originators of the human race on this planet.
		But in terms of the Book of Revelations, I would say that much of the information in there might yet prove to be correct, because whoever wrote it, in terms of the paper and sense of those days, had an insight, and apparently had ability to see into the future, and they saw things in terms of warfare which have come to pass.
		And the terrible plagues which are now coming upon us in many respects, they also saw.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Line 1, you're on the air with Al Belick in Phoenix.
unidentified		Well, Art, California.
		Yes.
		Good morning, Mr. Vilek.
al bielek ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
al bielek ▲ ● ▼		Two questions.
unidentified		First, since the U.S.
unidentified		government has used the transfer-retrieval mechanism to clean up a mess in 73, is it also used to silence or dissuade UFO witnesses and researchers with the men-in-black technique?
al bielek ▲ ● ▼		Very hard to hear you.
al bielek ▲ ● ▼		Can you, Art, can you repeat the question?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I don't know if I can or not.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Let me... Are you familiar with the men in black technique for silencing people like yourself?
al bielek ▲ ● ▼		Yes, I am familiar with the charges and allegations about MIBs.
al bielek ▲ ● ▼		I've never seen one, but I do know people who have.
unidentified		All right, my second question is on the hardware itself.
		Doubtless refinements and advances in technology have been applied to the project hardware since the 40s.
		So how long will it be until a stable tachyon drive fold generator will be in unclassified use?
preston nichols ▲ ● ▼		Good question.
al bielek ▲ ● ▼		That's a very good question.
		I don't really know how to answer that one.
		A tachyon drive system, an anti-gravity drive system, they exist, at least in terms of the anti-gravity drive systems today.
		The government has them, but in terms of being unclassified and generally available, it's very difficult to answer because Who can, uh, fathom the mind of the government.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Out of state, you're on the air with Al Belick in Las Vegas.
preston nichols ▲ ● ▼		Hello.
unidentified		Hi, how are you doing today, Art?
unidentified		Fine.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Where are you calling from?
bourbon in missouri ▲ ● ▼		Gilbert, Arizona.
unidentified		Alright.
unidentified		I know for a fact that, uh, uh, party machines exist.
bourbon in missouri ▲ ● ▼		Because I have one of my own.
unidentified		That's how I got to Ooga Booga Land.
unidentified		Oh.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Line two, you're on the air with Al Belick.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Hi.
bourbon in missouri ▲ ● ▼		Good morning, Art.
preston nichols ▲ ● ▼		Two questions.
unidentified		One, what is the exact title of the book that I should actually look up?
preston nichols ▲ ● ▼		The Philadelphia Story, and there's another part to that?
al bielek ▲ ● ▼		The Philadelphia Experiment and Other UFO Conspiracies.
unidentified		Oh, and other.
unidentified		Okay.
al bielek ▲ ● ▼		It's in publications.
		It was co-authored with Brad Steiger.
		Released in September 1990.
		It's still available.
		It's still in print.
preston nichols ▲ ● ▼		Okay, yeah, I've had some problems on the publication regarding some involvement here, but how involved are the Russians with time and space testing?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, good question.
		Are they ahead of us, behind us?
		Where are they?
al bielek ▲ ● ▼		I'm sorry, what was the question?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		The Russians, Al, where are they with these experiments now?
al bielek ▲ ● ▼		In terms of the Philadelphia experiment, I don't know if they ever involved themselves in it.
		In terms of the Montauk project, And that type of work, yes, they had their own parallel project.
		And when both ended in 83, I know the U.S.
		one ended in 83 in 12 August.
		I do not know whether the Russian one did on that date.
		But I do know through sources that there was a scientific exchange of information as to what they found, what they accomplished, because the approaches were not identical.
unidentified		All right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Out of state, you're on the air with Al Belick.
preston nichols ▲ ● ▼		Where are you calling from, please?
al bielek ▲ ● ▼		I've been listening for a couple of hours now, and I just wondered, is there any practical method of time travel for ordinary people, or is it only some huge government project that can do it?
		Well, in terms of the hardware, I don't think any ordinary people would be able to build it.
		In terms of the usage, anyone can use the equipment.
		It's not restrictive in terms of a certain type of person.
		But the government has a total monopoly on it, other than a few corporations who have been working with the government.
		And it's definitely not generally available.
		The only other way around that that I can suggest is if you are very heavily into meditation, and that type of thing.
		You can find a way through meditation to time travel, not physically but mentally or astrally
		as they sometimes say and you can get some of your own answers that way.
		This is not a physical time travel.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So for the individual it's a metaphysical answer rather than a hardware answer?
al bielek ▲ ● ▼		Typically it is.
		You're not going to get the hardware and you're not going to be able to construct it because
		it is quite complex.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It's a fascinating answer anyway.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Line two, you're on the air with Al Belick.
unidentified		Hi.
unidentified		Do you have any scientific proof about any of this?
al bielek ▲ ● ▼		Any hard proof, Al?
unidentified		Yes.
al bielek ▲ ● ▼		I'm sorry, hard proof of what?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, hard proof of any aspect of this story.
al bielek ▲ ● ▼		I have, but the problem is the proof that I have of this is not publishable because the people who can corroborate this story do not wish to be known publicly.
unidentified		No, no.
unidentified		You know, if this was a true story, ABC would pick it up in a second.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You know, if aliens actually did exist, and all of it, this would be the best story that ever did, you know, this would be the... Well, of course it would, Collar, but if the President of the United States is himself controlled, what makes you think that ABC would be exempt?
unidentified		Oh, okay.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I mean, in other words, if you buy the story, then you've got to buy the control factor as well, and ABC wouldn't be a... Well, I don't necessarily know if I do.
unidentified		I'm just You know, I'd like to believe this more than anything.
unidentified		You know, I would.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So would I, because I have been fascinated with and love the idea of time travel.
unidentified		I love it!
		Yeah!
		You know, I'm a big fan of Star Trek, and this is just, like, may my dream come true, but I just see no hardcore evidence of it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, what do you say to somebody like that, Al?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		He sees no hardcore evidence, wants to believe, but doubts.
al bielek ▲ ● ▼		Let me give the gentleman two insights.
		Number one, About a year and a half ago, Unsolved Mysteries became interested in the story that I had to tell, and then at a slightly later date, Sightings on the West Coast became interested.
		Both of them dropped it like a hot potato.
		They refused to touch it beyond the initial inquiry and apparent interest.
		So far as the major networks are concerned on live television, none of them will touch it, and we know that because we have tried.
		And the only one who has touched it in terms of television has been the cable networks, because they're not governed by the same set of rules.
unidentified		All right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Let's hold it there.
		We've got very little time.
		Line 3, you're on the air with Al Bielek.
preston nichols ▲ ● ▼		I have a question for Al.
unidentified		He goes back in 1943.
		He traveled in 1983, is that correct?
		He traveled in 1983?
		That is correct.
		He said, he mentioned that he's traveled in time a couple other times.
		Has he ever gone beyond 1983?
		And how much further in the future has he traveled, if he did at all?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, thank you.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Is it possible to travel into the future now?
al bielek ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
		That was done at Montauk.
		All of the people who were new recruits, if you will.
		We're required to take a trip into the future to the year 6037 A.D.
		and describe what they saw, and everyone came back with the same description.
preston nichols ▲ ● ▼		Let's hear it.
al bielek ▲ ● ▼		I'm sorry?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Let's hear it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I want to know what's coming.
al bielek ▲ ● ▼		The description of 6037 A.D.
		that everyone came back with, because I went on the trip myself, was that you arrived in the middle of a circle, what appeared to be a traffic circle from a city that no longer existed.
		There was a gold statue there, of a horse and some writing on the base it was in gold the base meaning a pedestal on which the horse was mounted this traffic circle radiated out in various directions on roads it was still there but all buildings were obliterated in the immediate area and the far distance you could see crumbling buildings there was no sign of life of any kind though there was blue skies and white clouds but there's absolutely a void of any life at that point
		Boy, that was what everyone came back with, the same report.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Line one, you're on the air with Al Bilek.
unidentified		All right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Hello, where are you calling from?
unidentified		I'm from Las Vegas, and I want to thank you guys for taking my call.
		It's very interesting, and pretty believable.
		I just wanted to ask a question about Tesla.
al bielek ▲ ● ▼		One caller got cut off.
unidentified		It seems kind of interesting.
unidentified		Is there any more information That we could get about Tesla?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, there's all kinds of information about Tesla, if you're interested in his history.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Is that what you mean, Colin?
unidentified		More about his study, or his notes, or anything like that.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
		Yeah, that is a good question, Al, very quickly.
		What about Tesla's documentation, such as it was?
al bielek ▲ ● ▼		There's a great deal still available through the museum back in Bucharest, I think it's Bucharest, back in Holmes County, or you might say, because Smiljan, Croatia is no longer extended as a separate country.
		It is now part of Yugoslavia.
		But the museum which was set up after his death has a great deal of information.
		There's a great deal here available in the U.S.
		If you go to the International Tesla Society in Colorado Springs, Colorado, they have perhaps more specific information, documentation about his patents, his work at the Colorado Springs Laboratory in 1899 and 1900.
		That book is available.
		Lists of most of his patents are available.
		And, of course, if you want to research the Institute of Electrical Engineers in New York, he was a regular lecturer from the period of about 1985, I'm sorry, 1885 onward.
		And those records all exist because a society was formed in 1884, and they've kept every book and every lecture on file at their headquarters in New York City.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Al, we're coming toward the end of the time.
		The telephones have never let up.
		They're still as jammed as they were.
		So we may, at some point, hope to have you back again.
		I'm trying to decide what would be... How old are you, Al?
al bielek ▲ ● ▼		Well, according to my birth certificate as Al Belick, I would be 66.
		According to my... I still can't locate birth certificate of Edward Cameron, I would be 76, 77.
		And it's really questionable what my real age is, but if you use the date from 1916, That would say that I'm about 77.
		All right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So you're on up there.
		My question is this.
		When you are gone, who will tell this story as you have told it?
		Or will the story die with you?
al bielek ▲ ● ▼		No, it will not die with me.
		There will be another book in preparation.
		I've already made many videotapes across the nation from lectures, from other appearances.
		And the information will be well documented.
		Potentially, the government classification on this project will end on the Philadelphia Experiment.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Do you know when that is?
al bielek ▲ ● ▼		Well, theoretically, it has to end in August of this year, because it's 50 years.
		The question is whether or not they can force its continuance as a classified project, because now it is up to... Are there any aspects of it that are available through the Freedom of Information Act now?
		Well, you can get some information through Freedom of Information, but the problem there is that If they release a report, if they don't cite any interest in national security, we can't release it.
		It may be blacked out so there's hardly anything left except the title page and the end page and index, perhaps.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, then hopefully you'll be with us for a while.
		Al, we've got to take off.
		You've got to get to bed.
		I thank you for being with us and please plan on doing it again, will you?
		Listen, do you remember a time when you could buy a new car for $2,000?
		A new three-bedroom home for $10,000 or less, or maybe a $0.10 cup of coffee.
		A time when the average middle-income family had only one wage earner.
		That allowed the wife to devote full-time care for the family.
		They could still own their own home, buy a new car every couple of years, take a nice vacation every summer, put a couple of kids through college, and look forward to carefree retirement.
		That year was 1966.
		Only 30 years ago.
		What happened?
		Well, to have the same standard of living today, you'd have to net, after taxes, about ten times the income of that year.
		Very few of us have been able to keep pace.
		What's happened to our beloved American dollar, the American dream?
		For the answers to these questions and more, I want you to call my friends at North American Trading and ask for their free newsletter on the decline of the dollar.
		That number is 1-800-877-9799.
		It's completely free.
		The number 1-800-877-9799.
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unidentified		Stay tuned for more of the best of Art Bell.
		My dad taught me the difference between collecting coins and saving money.
		I thought he'd been collecting U.S.
		savings bonds, but he was really helping to insure our future.
		He told me that savings bonds are a guaranteed safe way to save money, that they're there when you need them, and that they earn interest for up to 30 years.
		That's insuring the future.
		So I started my own collection of U.S.
		savings bonds.
		Just like Dad.
		When those young kids come up next to me at the stoplight, it really irritates me.
		Alan and Dave talk to Ethel on AutoTalk.
		When those young kids come up next to me at the stoplight, it really irritates me.
		They're revving their engines, you know, so I took my Mavic down to the shop and I put a blown 429 in it with a
		positive rear-ended traction bar.
		Well, that also can't do me any good because I'm only getting about 5,000 RPM.
		It's when they sit there and blow those engines up, you know, when they try and catch up with me, and that's what really makes me laugh.
		Say, do you have fields, overgrown pastures, even scrubby wooded areas you'd like to keep clear?
		Well, listen to what Clem Grabner of Fairfax, Virginia has to say about his amazing walk behind DR Field in Rushmore.
		We have 18 acres on the Shenandoah.
preston nichols ▲ ● ▼		We used to have this one portion brush hogged and then it got so expensive that I think it paid for itself the first year.
unidentified		If you're gone a couple weeks, the place is up to your knees again.
preston nichols ▲ ● ▼		It's been a real pleasure to have it.
		Most of it you can't cut with a regular mower.
		This mower that we have is just the thing we needed.
unidentified		It's very reliable.
preston nichols ▲ ● ▼		I mean, it's got a good motor on it.
unidentified		You can get a big color catalog direct from our factory all about the DR Field and Brush Mower.
		Just call toll-free 1-800-FIELD-13.
		That's 1-800-FIELD-13 for your free color catalog all about the amazing DR Field and Brush mower.
ron jenkins ▲ ● ▼		USA Radio Network News, this is Ron Jenkins.
		Astronauts Mark Lee and Stephen Smith have wrapped up spacewalk number 5, the final one for the Shuttle Discovery crew.
		They're now back inside the shuttle.
		At the conclusion of the latest spacewalk, capsule communicator Jeff Hoffman offered his gratitude to the crew for a job well done.
preston nichols ▲ ● ▼		Discovery, Houston, for the EVA crew, we see you're holding at 5 psi.
		I'm getting ready to turn back over to Mark.
		For the rest of the Orbit One shift and I just wanted to tell you how much I've enjoyed talking with you guys during the EVA and how much everyone down here appreciates the TLC that all of you have given the Hubble Telescope.
ron jenkins ▲ ● ▼		American Airlines started it all with a fare-cutting program to win back some of the people scared off by a threatened pilot strike last week.
		Now, four more major airlines have joined in the discounting.
		Travel agent Christian Sturm in Spokane, Washington says American is cutting its fares by as much as 50 percent, but he says there could be some smoke and mirrors involved.
unidentified		They take it off their full excursion fare.
		They don't discount it off usually their lowest fare that was already out before the sale.
		So it's a little bit of a trick, but it still ends up being really good savings for the consumer.
ron jenkins ▲ ● ▼		Some fares to London and Paris are under $500 for the round trip.
		China remains silent on the fragile health of paramount leader Deng Xiaoping.
		Communist leaders and others have cut short out-of-town trips to visit the ailing patriarch.
		This is USA Radio News.
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		turn and see how much you can save. That's 1-800-245-TERM.
ron jenkins ▲ ● ▼		Special Whitewater Prosecutor Kenneth Starr is leaving that job.
		He'll move to California where he'll become Dean of Pepperdine University in August.
		Starr says this doesn't mean the Whitewater investigation's over.
		He says it simply means somebody else is going to take charge.
		As for Starr, well, he's going to be a very busy man, according to Pepperdine's provost.
al bielek ▲ ● ▼		Our assumption is that when he comes and takes up this responsibility, he will have a full-time responsibility That will take place certainly as school begins sometime next fall, probably beginning sometime in August.
ron jenkins ▲ ● ▼		Peruvian President Alberto Fujimori says he's optimistic over the chances for a bloodless end to the two-month Lima hostage crisis.
		That's in spite of the apparent lack of progress in renewed talks with Marxist rebels.
		Three rounds of face-to-face talks between rebels and the government negotiator raised hopes of a breakthrough, but so far no sign that the sides are moving any closer to resolving the hostage issue.
unidentified		This is USA Radio News.
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		A Sears-authorized expert will examine your roof and give you a free estimate.
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ron jenkins ▲ ● ▼		Right on her first international tour as Secretary of State in Paris, France, and apparently talking tough to the
		French.
		USA's Connie Lawn has more.
unidentified		U.S.
		officials say Secretary of State Madeleine Albright is charming her hosts in Germany and France, but has not resolved key differences with the French.
		In fact, despite kisses from the French Foreign Minister, the tough-talking Secretary of State has not yielded to his demands on a variety of topics.
		U.S.
		officials say they have not agreed to France's call to hand over NATO's Southern Command to France.
		The U.S.
		does appear to agree to a French proposal for a five-nation summit to overcome Russian hostility on NATO.
		Connie Long, USA Radio News, Washington.
ron jenkins ▲ ● ▼		Latest reports from Seoul indicate tensions are mounting on the Korean Peninsula, despite indications from North Korea that it may accept the defection of one of its high officials in Beijing.
ron jenkins ▲ ● ▼		Ron Jenkins on the USA Radio Network.
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		You're listening to Art's 1993 interview with Al Bielek on this,
		the absolute best of Coast to Coast AM with Art Bell.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		you.
		My guest is indeed from East Islip, New York, Preston Nichols.
		And in effect, he's going to pick up where Al Belick left off.
		And many of you, I know many of you, are very familiar with the story of the Philadelphia Experiment and Al Belick.
		Don't know a lot about Preston Nichols and the Montauk Project, but as you know, Al Bilek referred to it as part of the Philadelphia Experiment, so it's been a great curiosity for me and for many of you.
		And we are honored, therefore, to have Preston Nichols with us.
		This evening, let's go all the way to East Islet, New York, and Preston Nichols.
		Preston, are you there?
preston nichols ▲ ● ▼		Yes, I'm here.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, welcome to the program.
preston nichols ▲ ● ▼		Thank you.
preston nichols ▲ ● ▼		Pleasure is mine.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Preston, I don't have any sort of biographical sketch on you, so why don't you tell me, tell everybody who you are.
preston nichols ▲ ● ▼		I'm essentially an electrical engineer.
		Graduated from the University of Tampa.
		Attended the Polytechnic Institute of New York.
		I've worked in the military industrial establishment for a number of years.
		Worked on many secret projects, including the Montauk Project.
unidentified		Okay, are you now, are you retired now?
preston nichols ▲ ● ▼		I consider myself semi-retired.
preston nichols ▲ ● ▼		I've been forced to be semi-retired.
unidentified		Okay.
preston nichols ▲ ● ▼		I have my own business now.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You have your own business, alright.
preston nichols ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You want to tell us what kind of business?
preston nichols ▲ ● ▼		We do electronics manufacturing, small manufacturing, R&D work, testing.
preston nichols ▲ ● ▼		We do rebuilding of electronic equipment for the small industries on Long Island here.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Very good.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Alright Preston, what in the world is or was... Is the Montauk Project still going on?
preston nichols ▲ ● ▼		Yes it is.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It is?
preston nichols ▲ ● ▼		Uh-huh.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		When did it begin and what can you tell us about it?
preston nichols ▲ ● ▼		Well, as far as we know, it traces back to about 1947 when they decided to restart the Philadelphia Experiment to find out what actually went wrong and why the people on the boat were not able to take the fields.
		As we've all heard before, the Philadelphia Experiment is where they attempted to make a ship, a Navy ship radar, invisible.
		They got full invisibility and the thing disappeared.
		And they got sucked into a hole in hyperspace between 1943 and 1983.
		Excuse me.
		I have a little bit of an allergy problem right now.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, it's bad all over the United States.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Allergies are high everywhere.
preston nichols ▲ ● ▼		So what actually happened is they did a lot of R&D work.
		The project split into two.
		The engineering went to Los Alamos, we believe, and that's where they developed the cell technology.
		It's on the third level of the cell aircraft these days.
		The other part of the project, which was the human factors project, went to Brookhaven National Laboratory, which was the largest human factors research in the United States.
		This is now about 1950, we believe.
		It joined what was known as the Phoenix Project, which was a very large, all-encompassing research project involving research into the human mind, the mind of man, starting back in World War I and World War II with propaganda, PA systems, leaflets dropping, this sort of thing.
		It evolved up through chemical research, drug research.
		After they spun their wheels a lot of time out of Brookhaven Web, they got the cell technology user-friendly.
		That means human beings can take the field.
		I cannot go into what that's all about because I did sign security on that.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		They made you sign a paper?
preston nichols ▲ ● ▼		Uh-huh.
		But when you get employment, Anything that they have you sign, it would be illegal and jail time to talk about.
		You'd be convicted of espionage.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's right.
preston nichols ▲ ● ▼		See, on the Montauk Project, they use different methods of security, which we can get into a little later, where I've never signed for it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So there will be some of it that you can talk about?
preston nichols ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, the Montauk Project I can talk of, because that I've never signed for.
preston nichols ▲ ● ▼		In fact, officially, I never existed on that project.
unidentified		Oh.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, alright, let's back up a little bit.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I'm sure that you've heard Al Belick's description of the Philadelphia Experiment.
preston nichols ▲ ● ▼		Yes, I have, many times.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Do you agree with, or quarrel with it, or do you think it's accurate, or do you know of any inaccuracies, or anything you'd like to correct about what he said about it?
preston nichols ▲ ● ▼		Well, essentially what he's saying is very controversial.
		I believe there are many different tests of radar invisibility, total invisibility, that the government research did attempt in World War II, and he's reporting on one test.
		You read the popular Phil Moore book.
		Phil Moore compiled all sorts of information, which was on a number of different kinds of tests, different kinds of procedures used.
		This is why the book is so confusing.
		I was speaking essentially from personal experience in talking with a lot of other people that he's come across, just as I've come across people.
		The Philadelphia Experiment did happen.
		It was definitely a high energy physics project.
		There is other information coming to surface saying that Nikola Tesla had an input to it in the beginning.
		Correct.
		You know, Dr. John Eric von Neumann definitely did work on it.
		He himself told me that.
		And, uh, I think Al's idea of what happened on the boat, excuse me, is pretty much correct.
		Because also, I've had the same idea from other witnesses, like Duncan Cameron, who was also on the boat with Al.
		I really don't have any qualms.
		What now?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So then you think the story is essentially correct?
preston nichols ▲ ● ▼		It's essentially correct.
preston nichols ▲ ● ▼		I think he may have missed some items and some of the points.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		One thing that I've found as I've interviewed... I do another show called Dreamland and I interview a lot of people who talk about time travel, talk about alien spacecraft and the ways space might be warped In a way it might be jumped across in fact and the technologies that they're talking about are strikingly similar to the one that Al Belick told us about.
preston nichols ▲ ● ▼		Well, again, we're discussing here what happens when you pulse a magnetic field to extremely strong levels.
		It's well known in the quantum physics world that if you pulse a magnetic field beyond I believe it's 1000 Tesla, field strength.
		It is highly possible to bend space and time.
		Now, if you can control this, it is theoretically possible to gain control of space and the time continuum, which would lead to the idea that all this stuff you hear coming out of the UFO legends has some scientific basis behind it.
		Although, a lot of the physicists will not accept the idea that there are parallel, multiple realities.
		But your quantum physics is beginning to accept that idea at this point.
		And a lot of them always have.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		What was the mission of the Montauk Project?
		What were they trying to do, accomplish?
		What was the central theme?
preston nichols ▲ ● ▼		Well, after the stealth technology was developed, it was suggested that This is the first time we have definite evidence that the mind of man is sensitive to electromagnetic fields.
		Let's research this further and develop population control.
		We can weaponize this thing as to make the enemy surrender.
		And, you know, I'm sure the possibilities are mind-boggling at this point.
		Congress said, no, we don't want this.
		This is mind control.
		This is too physically active.
		They were setting up to research, literally, mind control technology.
		They went to the military and said, would you be interested in this kind of weapon?
		Of course, this is every tactician's dream.
		So the military said, yes we are, and they gave them the old Montauk Air Force Station, which is only about 40 miles away from Brookhaven Lab, that they can do this stuff in secrecy and not be under the watchful eye of the congressional committees.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, when you say mind control, what exactly were they able to do to a person?
preston nichols ▲ ● ▼		Well, they were able to essentially inject a thought into a person's mind, make them believe it was his own thought, and control what you're thinking, and therefore have some effect on what you're doing.
preston nichols ▲ ● ▼		They could literally read out what you're thinking, they could modify your thought patterns.
unidentified		Oh?
al bielek ▲ ● ▼		What, what?
preston nichols ▲ ● ▼		And this was done at a distance using radio waves.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		At a distance using radio waves?
preston nichols ▲ ● ▼		That's what this whole thing was about.
		Remember, it started by studying the effects of electromagnetics on human beings and the cell technology.
		And it evolved into this device that could literally reach into a person's mind.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		At a distance?
preston nichols ▲ ● ▼		At a distance.
		Up to about thousands of miles.
		We're not sure exactly how far it was.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Alright, you said you can't talk about the The technical aspects of whatever allowed the biologically friendly fields to be applied.
		But can you talk about the technology that allows mind control?
		Or is that one of the things?
preston nichols ▲ ● ▼		Yes, because I did not sign for that.
preston nichols ▲ ● ▼		They use mind control to make anyone that works on the project forget what they did.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, all right.
		What technology is behind that?
		I know radio waves, but radio waves generally are totally harmless and without effect to biological entities.
		They're all around us.
preston nichols ▲ ● ▼		Well, this, as you've probably been reaching, this is coming up to a lot of debate at this point, exactly how harmless are these electromagnetic waves.
unidentified		That's true.
preston nichols ▲ ● ▼		Most of our waves that we do deal with in our environment are what we call continuous waves.
preston nichols ▲ ● ▼		CW like coming out of your radio transmitter.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Right.
preston nichols ▲ ● ▼		Human beings are sensitive to pulse waves, fast on and off.
		Semi-random fractal base type modulations in pulse form.
		They use pulse frequency and pulse amplitude.
		It's a very, very specialized form of modulation resembling some very modern chirp type radar signals.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, so it's a true pulse then.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It's not just a pulse modulation?
preston nichols ▲ ● ▼		It's a true pulse.
preston nichols ▲ ● ▼		It's a frequency hopping pulse.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Frequency hopping?
unidentified		Yes.
preston nichols ▲ ● ▼		It goes from frequency to frequency to frequency.
		If you tune it in on a radio receiver, it just sounds like a crack at a particular frequency.
		Then it goes to another frequency, got another crack, and it hops around from frequency to frequency.
		Montauk has about 20 different frequencies they hop between 420 and 460 megahertz.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		420 and 460 again, that's interesting.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		The Russians are using something or another that we call the Woodpecker.
preston nichols ▲ ● ▼		Well, that's down at HF.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's HF, is correct.
unidentified		And that's the same, similar type of modulation scheme.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Is it?
unidentified		Again, it's a pulse with a chirp inside the pulse.
unidentified		Oh.
preston nichols ▲ ● ▼		I've looked at the Russian Woodpecker.
		In fact, we have what we call over-the-horizon radar here, which looks almost identical, but much more sophisticated.
		And when that first appeared on the air, I called the FCC and asked them what it was, and they said it was the American version that was the American over-the-horizon radar.
		And I said, oh, you mean like the Russian woodpecker?
		And he said, yeah, it's our version of the woodpecker.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I see.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And so then you're saying that with the right kind of pulse, in the right frequency range, Not the frequency range, how you hop from frequency to frequency.
preston nichols ▲ ● ▼		Remember, you're building essentially a hologram, a holographic type information packet out of delta frequency information and delta amplitude information and delta phase.
		Of course, phase and frequency is the same.
		Remember, you're dealing here with very fast deltas.
		You have to integrate this into essentially A random ordered white noise pattern.
		Still very much on fractals.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
		Let's assume then that all of this which is going to begin to get above some of their heads and perhaps mine as well.
		All of this would affect a biological entity.
preston nichols ▲ ● ▼		It's a very unique type of radio signal.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		The next question is, how would you make it specific to any particular biological entity?
preston nichols ▲ ● ▼		Okay, that is very interesting itself.
		See, at the Montclair Project, we use what we call a witness, or a signature.
		A signature is a group of frequencies, an electromagnetic frequency transformed Which represents a particular human being like a set of fingerprints.
		You will perceive a holographic thought with the signature, transmit the thought, and then, you know, follow it with the signature.
		That signature would identify it as a person's particular thought.
		All you have to do is identify the person's signature, and as the signal is being generated, it will be transmitted with that signature.
		Montauk, essentially, was what we like to call a mind amplifier.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So, yes, okay, I'm beginning to get it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So an individual, then, is required as part of the, in effect, the transmitted portion.
preston nichols ▲ ● ▼		Yeah.
preston nichols ▲ ● ▼		The overall signal that was being transmitted was generated by a human being at Montauk.
unidentified		Uh-huh.
preston nichols ▲ ● ▼		They had a group of sensors that picked up his holographic thought patterns, processed it through a very large computer system, And then put it into a modified radar transmitter.
preston nichols ▲ ● ▼		That's where I came into the picture, because I was the one that was in charge of modifying the radar transmitter.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, that's incredible.
		Oh, I see.
		All right, so that's how you got into this.
preston nichols ▲ ● ▼		Yeah.
preston nichols ▲ ● ▼		You were actually... They essentially built a mine amplifier.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, I understand.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		A mine amplifier.
preston nichols ▲ ● ▼		And that led to all sorts of things, including mine control, precipitation of objects.
		You know, there was all sorts of things that were done from this.
		We're able to create an object out of the background ether.
		So the person sitting at the input of this could visualize that object in their artificial reality or virtual reality.
		This equipment had the capability of making it real.
		We're talking probably at least 100 million watts.
		Continuous, not pulse, power that they had out there.
		If the thing was modified to what's known as BEMUs, which had 100 megawatt continuous power.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Did it actually create an object, or did it create, um, the vision of an object?
preston nichols ▲ ● ▼		It could do either one, depending upon the fidelity of the transform being reproduced through the equipment.
		Like, you could picture, if your signal coming out of your transmitter was complete enough, it would be theoretically possible to recreate you at the other end.
		The reason you can't is one, the receiver doesn't have enough power and the information channel from the transmitter to the receiver is nowhere near high enough fidelity in the other dimensions and realities required to do it.
		This is what we tried to do at my talk, was bring up this fidelity factor, our broadcast.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		What could you get an individual to do?
		You say you could put an idea in an individual's mind.
		How much power of suggestion could you accomplish?
preston nichols ▲ ● ▼		Okay, I really don't know because that's the logistics of the project.
		You remember the information was very compartmentalized.
		Now legends, this is reports from people who I've spoken to, told me that they can get a person to do almost anything they want.
		This is the way it was put.
		God, that's incredible.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, I was just about to say, the latest incident occurred yesterday, and I'm not saying that the two are tied together.
		I'm not going to say that.
		There was an incident in Florida, just like so many that we've had, a long chain of them, Preston, in which individuals, for almost unknowable reasons, get a gun and start shooting people.
preston nichols ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, I know.
		We've been seeing this quite often.
		I've wondered myself if this is some sort of programming that's being activated.
		I'm not going to say it is.
		I really don't know.
		Well, it's a possibility.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It's something to wonder about.
preston nichols ▲ ● ▼		Yes, that I would agree with.
unidentified		Question, is time travel possible?
preston nichols ▲ ● ▼		Well, the thing you have to keep in mind is if you go into pure metaphysics,
		the nonphysical mind is a ripple or a transform or a form on the space-time continuum.
		If you're going to get your way into the nonphysical mind, you've got to generate a time wave,
		which is like a warping or a repetitive bending of the time function.
		Now, if you could get into this, you have the remnants of a time machine.
		Now, I know when things were being created out of real time, what I mean is when the concentration would be at 3 o'clock
		in the afternoon and the object would appear earlier after that time, they
		got very excited, shut the project down for a couple of months, and sent us
		all back to school to learn about time.
		I know they're interested in time manipulation, but of course, who wouldn't be?
		Yes.
		We're compartmentalized.
		I have no personal knowledge of how successful the Time Portal per se was.
		Again, people who had worked with the Time Portal, however, that was stable.
		That was usable.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Meaning you could travel in time, meaning physically travel to another time.
preston nichols ▲ ● ▼		Okay, now, the newer quantum theories, even though theories appearing in Scientific American, are saying that there are multiple realities where time is different, and because of the multiple realities, all time does coexist.
		It's possible to move from point A to point B in time.
		And they're saying either it's possible to go into the future, which has a lot to say about is the future predestined or isn't it?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Exactly.
preston nichols ▲ ● ▼		If you can travel into the future, to me it means that we're already predestined as to what's going to happen.
preston nichols ▲ ● ▼		I believe if you make a time loop from point A to point B, you just predestined between point A and point B. All right, Preston, I want you to hold on for a moment.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		We're going to take a break here at the bottom of the hour.
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unidentified		Listen!
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preston nichols ▲ ● ▼		We have 18 acres on the Shenandoah.
		We camp there.
		We used to have this one portion brush hogged and then it got so expensive that the brush mower, I think it paid for itself the first year.
unidentified		If you're gone a couple of weeks, places up to your knees again.
		So it's been a real pleasure to have it.
		Most of it you can't cut with a regular mower.
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		Well, I volunteer at the school, you know.
		And I'd see her sometimes with a rough crowd, but she didn't seem to fit in.
		Most people are afraid of me.
		They don't even talk to me.
		It's not right for a kid like that.
preston nichols ▲ ● ▼		Hanging around with nothing to do.
unidentified		She just walked right up to me and said, I like your work.
		Nobody's ever said that to me before.
		I want to see you paint something, I told her.
		And that's all it took.
		She got me to do it.
		I like it, because painting makes me look at things different.
		Always Kids.
		Helping you make a difference.
		BBC, Chancellor Broadcasting Company.
		For the strange and unusual, it's Greenland with Art Bell.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		What do we discuss on Greenland?
		Two fascinating areas.
		Is there life after death and are we alone in the universe?
		Two ultimate questions mankind's been trying to answer for thousands of years.
		We'll be talking about it this week right here on Dreamland.
unidentified		We're listening to the latest from the Dreamland studio.
unidentified		We're listening to a rebroadcast of Coast to Coast AM with Art Bell.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Justin, are you there?
preston nichols ▲ ● ▼		Yes, I am.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, this is a fax that came, actually it's not, it came to me on America Online on a computer service internet, and it was Greg in San Diego.
		Been listening for a couple years, love the show.
		Tonight's show, if I can't get in, ask your guest about the creature, I say again, the creature that was brought forward in time Yes, I was there when the thing was generated.
		I didn't see it personally.
		I heard about it.
		He said it was some sort of bigfoot creature.
		It did a lot of damage at the project, maybe killed some people.
		I've heard that it might have been 10 to 20 feet high.
		Please ask him to talk about this.
		Do you know anything about it?
preston nichols ▲ ● ▼		Yes, I was there when the thing was generated.
		I didn't see it personally.
		I heard about it.
		And we believe it was precipitated out of the subconscious of the person sitting at
		the input of the transmitter named Duncan Cameron.
unidentified		Oh.
preston nichols ▲ ● ▼		Who surfaced a monster out of the subconscious, just like the plot of Forbidden Planet.
preston nichols ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, the... It can be done, people.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		The monster from the id?
preston nichols ▲ ● ▼		Yes, it can be done.
		And this thing was precipitated with big, hairy, hungry, nasty means.
		We have photographs of it.
		If you go even to the present day, stand on the roof of the radar tower at Montauk and shoot towards the bunker.
		Which is southwest of the radar tower.
		You'll see a form, a humanoid form, on the bunker.
unidentified		Oh?
preston nichols ▲ ● ▼		Although it's not there physically, there's enough of a pattern there that photographically we can pick it up.
		I saw a tape called the Montauk Tour, where we have shots from the roof and you can see the monster in motion, moving very fast.
		He turns around, walks within a frame of a TV picture.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Is it what others have called Bigfoot?
preston nichols ▲ ● ▼		It sure looks like Bigfoot.
		I really don't know.
		I did not hear that it killed anybody.
		I heard it just scared the people.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, it would scare you, all right.
unidentified		Oh, yes.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Is there anything at all that you can tell us about the adaptation of the technology to be biologically friendly?
preston nichols ▲ ● ▼		Well, let's say first that there are three levels of stealth.
		The first two we hear about quite often, which is the radar cross-section, which is how much radar signal does the thing reflect.
		The second level is absorbing the radar signal.
		Now, if you've seen a picture or seen a stealth bomber or a stealth fighter, you'll know darn well it's a huge pancake.
		It gives a lot of radar cross-section.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
preston nichols ▲ ● ▼		So they didn't do a good job there.
		And I have worked with the absorbing coatings.
		In order to try to cut down reflections inside of component enclosures.
		And that stuff doesn't work all that well.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Composite materials?
preston nichols ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, so what this is saying is there's got to be a third level.
		The third level is electromagnetic bottle.
		Now how they made the thing used in front of you in a nutshell, this is alluded to in some of the aircraft publications, the electromagnetic bottle.
		They found out that when they cut off the human being from the natural background clocks, you know, the Schumann Resonance and all this sort of thing, he had a tendency to become disoriented.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, no, I don't know what you mean.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		What do you mean when you cut him off from normal human clocks?
preston nichols ▲ ● ▼		Well, the Earth has a clock.
		It's commonly called the Schumann Resonance, covered by W.O.
		Schumann.
		Which, every time lightning strikes in the cavity between the upper atmosphere, the ionosphere, and the Earth, this cavity rings.
		The frequency is around 8 Hertz.
		It flows between 7 Hertz and 9 Hertz, typically, depending upon the time of day.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's very low.
preston nichols ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, very, very low.
		And this is sort of what clocks our biological functions.
		Also, this changing of the frequency from night to day is what causes us to wake up, go to sleep, Because of the lymphatic flush of the system.
		It also has a lot to do with the alpha beta gamma rhythms in the brain.
		Now the other problem, they had to, the original technology created a solid field.
		They had to somehow focus this field into a shell so that the people were not getting irradiated by this large field.
		I'm not talking atomic radiation.
		Or essentially electromagnetic radiation.
		There is a difference.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
preston nichols ▲ ● ▼		But either one can be just as dangerous.
		Especially when you're using pulse magnetic fields like they were using to bend space-time to the point where they're just outside of our continuum.
		So the thing was somewhat invisible.
		Either radar or fully invisible.
unidentified		Hmm.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So you could get different levels of stealth depending on how... Yes.
preston nichols ▲ ● ▼		Yes, you can.
unidentified		Huh.
preston nichols ▲ ● ▼		They go from either zero, being in our reality, or 90 degrees out, being in the imaginary reality.
preston nichols ▲ ● ▼		At that point, the object is gone.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Where is the object?
preston nichols ▲ ● ▼		It exists, we believe, in another reality, which parallels ours, which is an ortho-rotation of 90 degrees, where there's length and width, but no height.
		Now, if you go 180 away, you're in an antimatter reality.
		That parallels us.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And what is that?
preston nichols ▲ ● ▼		We really don't know.
preston nichols ▲ ● ▼		I don't know what anyone's doing there.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And come back, anyway.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		What are they doing at Montauk now?
preston nichols ▲ ● ▼		Well, present day, it is a state park.
		It's listed on all the maps as Department of Parks property.
		The State Park is annexed onto the Montclair Point State Park.
		It's known as the Camp Hero Park.
		Only thing is, the park is closed to the public.
		They've got a big fence up around it.
		They've got security on the base.
		They've got an electric gate.
		And there's two power lines going into the park, each capable of multi-megawatts.
		Now what's a state park doing with multi-megawatts?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Good question.
preston nichols ▲ ● ▼		Now we've also known that there's all sorts of activities.
		They have what we believe to be a fake program for reclaiming the site and detoxing the site.
		They talk of removing asbestos.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Asbestos?
preston nichols ▲ ● ▼		Around the facility there's these elevated pipes that they use to carry hot water which has asbestos jackets.
		Even to this day they haven't taken that off and that's the easiest thing to get off.
		And probably some of the most dangerous is that the wind blows That asbestos is powdering and being blown all over the place.
		If they were really removing asbestos, that would have been one of the first things they would have gotten to.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, what kind of buildings are there?
preston nichols ▲ ● ▼		They're demolishing a lot of the old buildings.
		We believe the active area is underground.
		We've had reports, and I know I've been in the underground, but we've had reports that there's now an 8th level underground, which is huge.
		It goes out for miles.
		Now, I was also going to mention There are some cement buildings on top of what we call Radar Hill, where the Radar Tower is and Computer Center is, which is physically part of the underground.
		And if you put your ears up against the cement walls, you'll hear like machinery running.
		There are pipes that stick up out of the ground, and I've dropped a microphone down, and you'll hear the whine of the turbine and the grinding of some sort of fan.
		Now, for a derelict station, what is the machinery that we hear running?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		What do you think?
preston nichols ▲ ● ▼		I'm not the only one to hear this.
preston nichols ▲ ● ▼		A lot of people have reported this.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I understand.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		What do you think they are doing there?
preston nichols ▲ ● ▼		Some sort of... something's going into the electromagnetics of the planet itself.
preston nichols ▲ ● ▼		It's been suggested that the planet is tilting, and that's what they're trying... or tilting on the axis, and that's what they're trying to prevent.
unidentified		Who knows?
preston nichols ▲ ● ▼		What they're doing is up to a lot of speculation and conjecture.
		All I can tell you is if you go out there at the right time, you'll pick up a very slow pulse transmission between 420 and 450 MHz.
		Again, it's still out there.
		I got recordings of it.
		And also, you'll pick up a very complex data transmission at 173 MHz, which is in the guard band for Channel 7.
		That's why they can't watch Channel 7.
		If you deactivate these transmissions, it goes right to the old base.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, isn't that something?
preston nichols ▲ ● ▼		Now, the 173 MHz transmission, it was done by any civilian.
preston nichols ▲ ● ▼		The FCC is having to shut them down.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		In a New York second.
		Ah, that's true.
		Do you think that that is some sort of remote control, perhaps?
preston nichols ▲ ● ▼		Or... It is some sort of a data link.
preston nichols ▲ ● ▼		What the purpose is, I really don't know, because I have no way of decoding it.
unidentified		Uh-huh.
preston nichols ▲ ● ▼		Because I recorded it, wideband recording, video recording, and handled it to different people, and they tried all the known codes on it, and it doesn't decode.
preston nichols ▲ ● ▼		So some sort of government secret code, most likely.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Is there mind control going on now?
preston nichols ▲ ● ▼		There are all sorts of transitions.
		Tell me, you were saying in effect that what they were doing was amplifying the human mind.
		Yes.
		really don't know and they seem to have an effect on the subliminal level on our consciousness.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Tell me, you were saying in effect that what they were doing was amplifying the human mind.
unidentified		Yes.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Can that be done with any human being or are there some humans that lend themselves more
preston nichols ▲ ● ▼		Okay.
preston nichols ▲ ● ▼		Theoretically, it can be done with any human being, but you want a person who is trained that when he concentrates, his whole fiber, his whole being concentrates on the one thing.
unidentified		That's a specially trained person.
preston nichols ▲ ● ▼		Theoretically, any one of us could be trained to do it if we went through the training and we had the capabilities and the qualities, whatever that is.
		Duncan Cameron is a very unique individual.
		He can only concentrate on one thing at a time.
		He can't concentrate on multiple tasks.
		He's so trained to go one thing at a time.
		The human being has to create a virtual reality in his mind.
		And then the equipment picks out the emanations of that reality.
		So of course, the more complete that reality is, the more complete the transform or the metaphysical thought form will be.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And so you're saying an individual using this process with that equipment could create anything from a material object to a being or an entity or a monster?
preston nichols ▲ ● ▼		Well, we know that they could create objects.
preston nichols ▲ ● ▼		When they went to try to create living beings, they had trouble creating living beings because now you need a much higher degree of information fidelity.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I'm sure you do.
preston nichols ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Any living creature.
preston nichols ▲ ● ▼		Much more complex with much more detail.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Exactly.
preston nichols ▲ ● ▼		It's like taking a TV set and trying to put a thousand line picture on it.
preston nichols ▲ ● ▼		You just can't do it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		How far have they come in the fidelity area?
preston nichols ▲ ● ▼		I don't know.
preston nichols ▲ ● ▼		Since 83 I have no knowledge.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		What part did Montauk play, or what part do you know that it played, in the Philadelphia Experiment?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		As I recall, Al Belick said... Well, Montauk is the place where the two sailors came to.
unidentified		Exactly.
preston nichols ▲ ● ▼		We're finding that there's quite a few sailors that came from the Eldridge to Montauk and did different things.
		And the Montauk Project was the other end of the time loop between 43 and 83.
		They used this Totally fixed time looping between two points, actually three points, 63 as well.
		They use this time loop as like a master loop, the anchor open-ended loop, that means there's equipment only on one end.
		Wherever somebody like Duncan Cameron could picture the time vortex going, if the stability was good enough, it would go there.
		But you'd have to have an anchor to hold it all stable, and that's what they use 43, 63, 83 for.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		What made Montauk the other end of it?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		In other words, what focused on Montauk as the other end?
preston nichols ▲ ● ▼		Or how did that... Well, in metaphysics we have what we call a witness.
		What this is, you take a photograph of a person.
		That photograph carries their signature or whatever you want to call it.
		That's a witness.
		We made sure that we had a witness from Montauk to the Eldridge by having some of the equipment on the Eldridge.
		physically part of the Montauk system.
		We had people present that were on both projects.
		And then they used the Earth's biorhythm cycle as the final witness effect and guaranteed a lockup of the two projects
		through space and time.
		And there's rumors that this may have even ripped open hyperspace enough to allow all the UFOs that have come in
		recently since 47.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Wow.
preston nichols ▲ ● ▼		That has made a major rip in space time between 43 and 83.
preston nichols ▲ ● ▼		No question.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Another person.
preston nichols ▲ ● ▼		What's going to come into that?
preston nichols ▲ ● ▼		I don't know.
unidentified		All right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Again, let's go into, again, the basic technology that's allowing all of this.
		And in some detail, in other words, if I wanted to set up something that would bend space and time, or that I
		could begin to focus waves to affect biological entities, what kind of technology would I use?
		How would I put it together?
preston nichols ▲ ● ▼		Well, if you did it the way the government did it, their benchmark was, let's kill flies with a sledgehammer.
		Lots and lots of power.
		They had a final amplifier in their transmitter, which had an input of at least 200 million
		watts of power, wasted half of that in heat, heated the Atlantic Ocean with it, and put
		out 100 million watts.
		That means to do anything, you would have to build maybe one hundredth of that.
		It means you'd have to build a megawatt transmitter and then pulse the thing, frequency hop it
		and pulse it.
		You'd have to somehow correlate this to represent a fractal-based frequency-time transform.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, that gets a little complicated.
		Let me give you an analogy, and you tell me if this is a good analogy.
		Go ahead.
		It certainly is possible, because it was done, to send a signal across the Atlantic Ocean with a spark gap transmitter.
preston nichols ▲ ● ▼		True.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It could be done, but it takes massive, massive amounts of power that is very wasteful.
preston nichols ▲ ● ▼		Which they didn't have in those days.
		They were transmitting some of the former electromagnetics.
		You can see the coherer they used at the other end needs millivolts of signal.
		If you transmit a kilowatt across the Atlantic Ocean, you get maybe 10 microvolts tops.
		How the hell did that coherer trigger?
		You tell me.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, my point was you could send a spark signal across the Atlantic.
		It was done, but it required a very great deal of power.
		You can do it today.
preston nichols ▲ ● ▼		It wasn't that much power.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, compared to the power that you, for example, with a modern single sideband narrowband transmitter, you could do it today with far less power.
preston nichols ▲ ● ▼		You do it at 10 watts.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, that's exactly right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That seems like a good analogy to the beginning of the Philadelphia Experiment versus the refinements that occurred at Montauk.
preston nichols ▲ ● ▼		But still, at Montauk, they used tremendous amounts of power.
		Because they were trying to bend the space-time continuum, and it takes tremendous amounts of power.
		Any quantum physicist will tell you that.
		It takes something like five and ten thousand ampere per meter magnetic fields.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, but the original Philadelphia Experiment was, as you said, kind of a blunderbuss compared to what could be done today.
preston nichols ▲ ● ▼		Well, the Montauk Project was much more finesse.
		That's why Montauk Project controlled the vortex.
		They didn't control it from Philadelphia, they controlled it from Montauk.
		Philadelphia was just another power source.
unidentified		That's all it was.
preston nichols ▲ ● ▼		It was an open-ended power source.
		They had no finesse.
		All they did was just generate tons of power, put it out in the ether, and by gosh, by God, something happened.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		What did you actually do?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		What did you work on?
preston nichols ▲ ● ▼		I was sought out as a technician, graduated up to an engineer.
		My responsibility was to modify the old SAGE radar transmitter.
		I was the fellow that set up the pulse modulation schemes, the synchrodyne modulation schemes, Set up the frequency hopping.
		I had to work on the coho to synthesize local oscillators that we used in the transmitter.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		What did they tell you you were working on?
preston nichols ▲ ● ▼		They told me that we were working on equipment to interface human beings to technology, the mind of man to technology, which was very interesting to me.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I should say.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I should say, but you were actually working on the pulsing of the signal that would carry a transmission, not so much, that is to affect other human beings, right?
preston nichols ▲ ● ▼		I didn't realize this until later on in the project, this is what they were really doing.
preston nichols ▲ ● ▼		At that time I was so involved in it, I couldn't see myself getting out of it easily.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, uh, it seems to me that's a very, very dangerous technology.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Very dangerous.
preston nichols ▲ ● ▼		Very dangerous, yes, I agree with you.
preston nichols ▲ ● ▼		We all decided towards the end of the project to crash it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, you did?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's what I was going to ask you.
preston nichols ▲ ● ▼		That's why the monster was created, to crash the project.
		Because Duncan especially was saying things that the rest of the city, you know, didn't dare say.
		Duncan found God, got excised, we don't know what happened, but all of a sudden he called the meeting and said, hey, this thing is going totally into the lower world and the lower domains.
		It's getting very evil.
		Of course, we all knew this, but we didn't have the guts to say it.
		And we all agreed, yes, yes, yes.
		What do we do?
		Well, we've got to bring this thing down.
		How do we do it?
		Well, let's create this big, hungry, nasty monster that will scare them into crashing it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Fascinating.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And it worked?
preston nichols ▲ ● ▼		Yes, it worked very well.
		All it did was drive them underground.
		Just shut them down for a while.
		They're still doing it.
		Exactly what they're doing, we don't know.
		We're still researching that.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, Preston.
		Hang in there.
		You've got a bit of a rest here at the top of the hour, and we'll be back to you.
preston nichols ▲ ● ▼		Okay.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Preston Nichols is my guest.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		The Montauk Project Uh, kind of a follow-up on the Philadelphia experiment is the topic.
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art bell ▲ ● ▼		AM, FM, and shortwave.
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		It is a portable AM, FM, shortwave.
		Eight bands of shortwave.
		It doesn't use batteries, nor does it plug into the wall, because it does not need to.
		It has something internally called the Bayless Clockwork Generator.
unidentified		It uses you, human power.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You crank it for one minute, and you get 35 to 40 minutes play.
		By the way, it's got great audio.
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		However, for the first time, they've got a few returned Beijing's, just waiting for a new home.
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unidentified		$99.95 including shipping and handling.
unidentified		Wow!
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Quite a deal, folks.
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unidentified		If you've missed any part of tonight's interviews with Al Belick or Preston Nichols and you'd like to have a copy on tape, dial toll-free 1-800-917-4278 and ask for tape number 970217C.
		917-427-8 and ask for tape number 970217C.
		The cost is $33.50 for all five hours without the commercials.
		That toll-free number is 1-800-917-427-8.
		You've got tax questions.
		Who doesn't?
		The important thing is, where do you go for answers?
		Well, try calling the Internal Revenue Service.
		Teletax is your 24-hour, toll-free helpline.
		You'll have access to recorded information on about 150 tax topics, from deductions to dependents to business expenses.
		Just call 1-800-829-4477.
		That's 1-800-829-4477 for Teletax.
		At the IRS, we want to help.
		In fact, that's why we're here.
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		Things were really cooking at the St.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Petersburg Steakhouse.
unidentified		When we pinch them.
unidentified		Ouch!
ron jenkins ▲ ● ▼		Betty gives us a ticket.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's right, and don't call me Betty.
unidentified		But we never wear safety belts.
ron jenkins ▲ ● ▼		We're dummies.
unidentified		Then here's something even you can understand.
		For a good time, call... No, this.
		A ticket.
		Police are now ticketing lowlife scum who don't wear safety belts, so buckle up.
ron jenkins ▲ ● ▼		Surely you can give us a break.
unidentified		No, and don't call me Shirley.
unidentified		A message from the Department of Transportation and the Ad Council.
ron jenkins ▲ ● ▼		USA Radio Network News, this is Ron Jenkins.
		The crew of the Space Shuttle Discovery finished its last spacewalk of the mission, and during that walk, the crew made more repairs on the Hubble Space Telescope.
		Steve Nesbitt of NASA says everything is going very well, the mission so far is a success.
		Jeff Hoffman, capsule communicator, thanked the crew.
		Astronaut Stephen Smith thanked Houston in return.
unidentified		Well, Jeff, as an IV, I want to tell you it's been a pleasure working with you, and we've got a whole lot of confidence in the team down there, and you've been an excellent spokesman, as well as Mark, and it's been a real joy to work with all of you.
unidentified		Thank you very much.
ron jenkins ▲ ● ▼		Tonight, the crew makes final electronics tests of the Hubble, then turns the telescope loose in orbit and moves away to prepare for the trip home.
		Kenneth Starr, Independent Counsel investigating the Whitewater case and any involvement by the Clintons, is leaving that job to take on the Dean's position at Pepperdine University in California.
		He was asked if that meant there were no indictments pending against the first family.
unidentified		I can't comment at all on the investigation.
unidentified		As you know, we do our talking in court.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I just think it would be wrong.
unidentified		It would be wrong to be making predictive judgments based upon what one individual may do.
ron jenkins ▲ ● ▼		Starr starts his pepidon job August 1st.
		And U.S.
		Secretary of State Madeleine Albright attends her first NATO foreign ministers meeting today in Paris.
		This is USA Radio News.
unidentified		Marcellini and Wilkins, five reasons you should be investing in gold today.
		Reason number two, foreign loans.
		It's common knowledge and has been published that one, foreign investment has subsidized US interest rates.
		Two, this has caused the US dollar to remain at unrealistic high rates of exchange.
		And three, foreign investment has, for all intents and purposes, single-handedly created the largest stock market
		speculation in history.
		The amount of U.S.
		currency held by foreign governments is astronomical, which means these foreign governments can exert pressure on the U.S.
		and even impact our national policy.
		The fact is that your paper investments are linked to variables you have no control over.
		They rise and they fall at the whim of phenomenon, sometimes as nebulous as fear.
		There are two sayings.
		In the land of the blind, the one-eyed man is king, and he who holds the gold is in charge.
		Get the facts about gold ownership.
		These facts will be mailed to you free of charge by calling Barcellini & Wilkins, the private gold company in Venice.
		Call 800-497-6531.
ron jenkins ▲ ● ▼		The investigation into alleged influence peddling in the 1996 presidential election has brought with it 20 new subpoenas.
		And word from the Chief Investigator that there could be even more.
		Dan Burton, Indiana Republican and Chairman of the House Committee on Government Reform and Oversight, is working with Senator Fred Thompson's Governmental Affairs Committee.
		They're looking at possible foreign influence in the U.S.
		election process.
		Jeff Birnbaum is the Washington Bureau Chief of Fortune Magazine, and he says Burton's job is a sizable one.
unidentified		Dan Burton, the chairman of the committee in the House that's looking into this, wishes he didn't have such an extensive investigation, but so much has been happening and so much has been flowing, perhaps improperly, into Democratic coffers, that he's expanded his investigation, and it looks like he'll have a lot of work to do.
ron jenkins ▲ ● ▼		The White House has denied campaign contributions to Democrats influence the president on foreign policy decisions.
ron jenkins ▲ ● ▼		This is USA Radio News.
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ron jenkins ▲ ● ▼		Row upon row of parking meters are standing headless in Washington, D.C.
ron jenkins ▲ ● ▼		Connie Long explains.
unidentified		Citizens in Washington, D.C.
		have had enough.
		They are decapitating parking meters.
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		Connie Long, USA Radio News, Washington.
ron jenkins ▲ ● ▼		A supplier strike that could have crippled General Motors truck and sports utility production has been averted.
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		Ron Jenkins on the USA Radio Network.
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		phone that's 1-800-829-4477 for teletax. At the IRS we want to help. In fact, that's why we're here.
		And we're going to help you. So please, if you have any questions, please let us know.
		While Arthel is resting, recovering from the cold he caught flying home from Mexico,
		Chancellor Broadcasting Company presents Vintage Art Thel and his classic two-hour interview
		with Preston Nichols on the Montauk Experiment.
		It's a dandy and one of Art's all-time favorite shows.
		And now, our number two of the two-hour interview with Preston Nichols on the Montauk Experiment.
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	To get that which you cannot otherwise get.
	In other words, we have so many good photographs and articles like this medical study on the Internet, on the web page.
	That we know all of you don't have computers by a long shot, so we publish all of this in a newsletter as well.
	In addition to things you cannot get on the website, in-depth interviews with some guests that we have on the air, with facts and information that go well beyond what we have on the air.
	It's called the Art Bell After Dark Newsletter.
	So, to get a copy of the show, to get the Art Bell After Dark Newsletter, call 24 hours a day, 1-800-917-4278.
	Are you writing down that number?
unidentified		1-800-917-4278.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Back to Preston Nichols in the Montauk Project.
		Are you writing down that number?
		1-800-917-4278.
		Back to Preston Nichols in the Montauk Project.
		Preston, are you there?
preston nichols ▲ ● ▼		Yep.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Good.
		I've got a number of questions for you, Preston, faxed in, and then we'll get to the telephones.
		Art, I would like to ask Preston whether there is a possibility that the occurrences at Amityville, New York, could somehow be related to the Montauk Project.
		I got this thought while reading his book, Montauk Revisited.
		That's your book?
preston nichols ▲ ● ▼		Yep.
preston nichols ▲ ● ▼		You mean the Amityville Horror Film?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, that's right.
preston nichols ▲ ● ▼		I don't know.
		I was involved as a parapsychology researcher years ago, and we really couldn't find much of anything to that house.
		That's the only statement I'll make on it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Uh, you were there?
unidentified		Mm-hmm.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, you were at Amityville?
preston nichols ▲ ● ▼		About 10 miles west of here.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		What, uh, very briefly, let's take a sidetrack, because that's fascinating.
		Uh, what did you find at Amityville?
		I, you know, I've seen the movie.
		I don't know how much, uh, relationship that has to what really happened.
preston nichols ▲ ● ▼		Well, we checked the heat.
		We checked the heat differentials.
		We checked the static charges.
		We checked the magnetic anomalies.
		We didn't find anything.
		We didn't find anything to back up the bugs.
		We didn't find anything to back up the bleeding walls.
		I myself feel that this is something that maybe there was a genuine haunting, but the fellow that wrote the book just blew the thing way out of proportion.
unidentified		Alright.
preston nichols ▲ ● ▼		So we couldn't find anything to back it up.
preston nichols ▲ ● ▼		I was involved in a team of parapsychologists that was called in to investigate it.
unidentified		All right.
preston nichols ▲ ● ▼		There's even rumors of an Indian burial ground under the house.
		Who knows what really happened there?
		I don't know.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Gerard, I wonder if you would ask your guest if the supercollider was in any way planned to be used with the project he was working on, Montauk?
preston nichols ▲ ● ▼		No, because the supercollider came afterwards.
		Although we have been getting a lot of information lately that they are using particle accelerators as particle beam weapons, of course, a particle beam power source, or a particle beam amplifier.
		This is where they use particles going to the velocity of light doing the mass-to-energy conversion based upon E equals mc squared.
		I will tell the public that the physicists have reached the speed of light with particles and that they today are using this as a power source or a power amplifier.
		Imagine a power amplifier that can tap the power of a nuclear bomb, literally.
		This may be where they got all the power and space and time at Montauk.
		We know there was a particle accelerator, and I believe it's active today, because once myself and other people walking over it, it goes to some sort of radiation.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, I know, I know this.
preston nichols ▲ ● ▼		It's a radiation sickness for a while.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Preston, I know this, that they have considered using Nuclear explosions, or controlled explosions, in satellites to focus beams.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Is that?
preston nichols ▲ ● ▼		To focus a laser.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah.
preston nichols ▲ ● ▼		Yeah.
		I've read the same thing.
		That's supposedly the Star Wars weapon.
		Exactly.
		We really don't need that.
		All we've got to do is accelerate particles to speed.
		They do it by starting out with a large accelerator, dumping into a smaller one, into a smaller one yet, and each time you go to a smaller and smaller one, the velocity just goes up.
		Remember, as you bring the particles closer into the circle, what happens is the momentum makes them go faster and faster.
		So at some point, you're going to reach C, the speed of light.
		The magical things happen when you reach the speed of light.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, uh, what about surpassing it?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Is it possible?
preston nichols ▲ ● ▼		Not in this dimension.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So that in effect... I am 100% correct.
preston nichols ▲ ● ▼		You cannot surpass the speed of light within our reference frame.
		You know, to pass the speed of light, you gotta do it in another reference frame relative to ours.
		And I say, I believe it's possible to go past it, but not in our reality as we know it.
		You gotta warp into another reality to go past the speed of light, relative to us here.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Alright, listen, this comes from St.
		Louis, Missouri.
		Please ask Mr. Nichols.
		If there's a way that anybody can render himself or herself impervious to mind control by any outside force or protection?
preston nichols ▲ ● ▼		Well, what you have to do is you have to consider the level of consciousness and awareness this thing is operating at.
		You've just got to raise your level of awareness above that.
		The mind, if it's aware of what's going on, the mind can automatically protect against this.
		That's part of why I'm putting this information out, to let people know what's going on, so they've got an idea of how to protect themselves on a subconscious level.
		You're saying then, in effect, that you're... There's no devices that will protect you.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So, in effect, you can protect yourself with your own will.
preston nichols ▲ ● ▼		Right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Alright, I've got it, I think.
preston nichols ▲ ● ▼		This is a message of the new age, essentially.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So the New Age is mixed in with all of this?
preston nichols ▲ ● ▼		Oh yes, very definitely.
		This is the application of New Age metaphysical principles to technology.
		This is what we're talking about.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Alright, let us go to the telephones and see what's out there.
		For Preston Nichols on the wildcard line, you're on the air.
		Hi, where are you calling from please?
bourbon in missouri ▲ ● ▼		I'm calling from Bourbon, Missouri.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Bourbon, Missouri.
		Turn your radio off, sir.
		Okay, you got it?
bourbon in missouri ▲ ● ▼		Yeah.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
		You're on the air with Preston Nichols.
		Go ahead.
bourbon in missouri ▲ ● ▼		Okay, sure.
bourbon in missouri ▲ ● ▼		Hello, Preston?
preston nichols ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
bourbon in missouri ▲ ● ▼		Excuse me.
preston nichols ▲ ● ▼		You got the same coal problem I got.
bourbon in missouri ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, I know.
bourbon in missouri ▲ ● ▼		It's the late nighttime and the early spring atmosphere, okay?
preston nichols ▲ ● ▼		It's terrible, isn't it?
bourbon in missouri ▲ ● ▼		Yes, it is.
		Pollen is terrible.
		Anyway, I wonder if you ever heard of a guy named Edward Teller?
preston nichols ▲ ● ▼		Yeah.
bourbon in missouri ▲ ● ▼		OK.
		Have you read his book on the astrometrical universe?
		OK.
		And in there you realize that he talks about the unlimited power that is available through the antimatter.
		And this is a man who is very credible because he invented the, was largely responsible for the invention of the atomic bomb.
preston nichols ▲ ● ▼		And he's also a rocket scientist.
bourbon in missouri ▲ ● ▼		And he's also a rocket scientist.
		That's absolutely correct.
		But we also know, you and I know anyway, and I don't know how many other people know, but he was also instrumental in some of the accelerators where they actually created anti-matter.
preston nichols ▲ ● ▼		Very true.
bourbon in missouri ▲ ● ▼		And when you have anti-matter meet real matter, you have 100% conversion of energy.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Right, that's not good.
preston nichols ▲ ● ▼		Well, it may not be good.
preston nichols ▲ ● ▼		That can be quite useful.
bourbon in missouri ▲ ● ▼		But it can be quite useful.
		And the fact of the matter is that you have an unlimited power source.
		Very true.
		When you consider the basic equation of E is equal to MC squared.
preston nichols ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, we just heard that a minute ago.
bourbon in missouri ▲ ● ▼		That's right.
		You have a tremendous amount of power that is available in... Consider the power of one neutron, sir, accelerated to the speed of light.
		That's right.
		And when you have that much power... Something like a megawatt.
		That's right.
		And when you have that much power, you could consider what one ounce of real matter versus one ounce of anti-matter could do.
		And somewhere in our future, this is our new parcel.
preston nichols ▲ ● ▼		I think in certain sectors, this is our power source today.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You think it's already being utilized?
preston nichols ▲ ● ▼		Oh yeah, I've seen evidence of it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You know, they talk about the danger of a nuclear plant Uh, going south, and a meltdown, but, uh, if you... One of these accelerators goes south.
		Well, that was my question, President.
		Uh, if one of these were to go south, it seems to me the planet could, the planet would sort of blink out.
preston nichols ▲ ● ▼		It might.
preston nichols ▲ ● ▼		We've often been, you know, friends of mine and myself, nuclear physicists, we've often been joking, well, someday we'll say, gee, there used to be nice land out at Montauk, The particle accelerator went south and now there's a black hole there.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, exactly.
preston nichols ▲ ● ▼		Well, the thing is, most of these accelerators, from what I understand, I'm not a nuclear physicist, but I know three of them.
		They tell me that they use neutrons.
		I think we're all well aware of neutron radiation.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
preston nichols ▲ ● ▼		And a nuclear medicine doctor that checked me out said that most likely I got hit with neutron radiation.
		Probably what happened is I was walking over the accelerator.
		Yeah, why are you going to walk over the damn thing?
		It must have had a burst in the past and it made a burst of neutron radiation and we all got it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I see.
preston nichols ▲ ● ▼		We all had bitchy sores and sickness and felt disoriented for a couple of days afterwards.
		There are these nice guys that they don't shut off the area where the accelerator is.
		They let you walk around that.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, on the wild card line, you're on the air with Preston Nichols.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Good evening.
unidentified		Good evening.
unidentified		Sir, I hope you'll bear with me and give me as much time as you did your last caller.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, I don't know.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It depends on what you've got to say.
unidentified		A couple of questions there.
		Hey, Preston?
		Mm-hmm?
		Okay, this thing you've been talking about now, okay, it kind of relates back to where the Jews... All right, that's it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		On the wildcard line, you're on the air.
		Hello.
		Would have been on the air.
		Let me see.
		Let's go to the toll-free line.
unidentified		You're on the air.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Good morning.
unidentified		Oh, good evening, Art.
		Yes, sir.
		I had a question for your guest.
		Before the last commercial break, he spoke briefly about him and some of his colleagues turning against this project because things were getting, he said, evil.
		If he could, have him expand on that and tell us a little bit more about exactly what he meant by the evil nature the project was taking.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, where are you, please?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Where are you?
unidentified		I'm in St.
unidentified		Louis, Missouri.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		St.
		Louis, all right.
		Expand on the evil part of your statement, if you would.
preston nichols ▲ ● ▼		I feel the whole mind control aspect of the thing is evil.
		Man is meant to have a free mind, not to be dominated.
		Also, they were working in maneuvering and manipulating time so certain people would have power that probably shouldn't have power.
		Or the power group will get more power and they get more oppressive and, you know, the whole nine yards of this.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, I guess... You remember the old expression, once they've seen something or another, how are you going to keep them down on the farm?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Once they've experimented with mind control, or imagine or know they can control minds, how are you ever going to stop them?
preston nichols ▲ ● ▼		I don't know.
preston nichols ▲ ● ▼		Only way I can see you stopping them is get the population aware enough that it just doesn't work.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Is there any way that a person could know, just as a question, that their mind is being controlled?
preston nichols ▲ ● ▼		I guess if you start doing things out of character that would be a good sign of it.
		Also if you had the monitoring equipment If you knew what to listen for, if you're educated in radio like you and I are, you could probably pick this up on the radio and notice the very sharp, edgy tones that would appear on your radio.
		Alright.
		I can tune in and listen and hear the stuff.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Alright.
		On the first time caller line, you're on the air with Preston Nichols.
		Hello.
unidentified		Yes, I have two questions.
		One of them, I was interested in, Al Belick talked about age regression.
		And I was interested if Preston Nichols knew exactly how to pull this off.
preston nichols ▲ ● ▼		All right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Where are you, sir?
unidentified		St.
preston nichols ▲ ● ▼		Louis, Missouri.
unidentified		And I have one more question.
preston nichols ▲ ● ▼		All right.
unidentified		I have a book called Mind Machines You Can Build by G. Harry Stein.
unidentified		And in the book, it's a little diagram on an instrument he called a wishing machine.
preston nichols ▲ ● ▼		A what machine?
unidentified		A wishing machine.
preston nichols ▲ ● ▼		Wishing?
unidentified		Yes.
		With the device, he says that it was, I guess, originally built back in the 40s.
		And he said he uses an audio amplifier, a couple of copper plates, an antenna, a 6-volt battery, and, you know, a couple of other little simple things like that.
preston nichols ▲ ● ▼		And he said, uh, if you would use a picture, and you would put it in between the two copper plates... This sounds like a radionics device.
unidentified		Um, maybe so.
		Like they say, the name of the book is Mind Machines You Can Build.
		Right.
		So with this device, they said at long distances they could, uh, Like a 20-acre cornfield that was infested with bugs or whatever, that they would have a 90% kill rate just by consciously focusing on the picture.
preston nichols ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, this is typical radionics, yeah.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Alright, thank you.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Alright, to answer the man's first question... Age regression.
unidentified		Age.
preston nichols ▲ ● ▼		Not age.
preston nichols ▲ ● ▼		Age.
unidentified		A-G-E.
preston nichols ▲ ● ▼		Right.
preston nichols ▲ ● ▼		That's what we're talking about.
unidentified		Right.
preston nichols ▲ ● ▼		I'm not going to say this is impossible, because we have theories today which are stating That there's an energy lattice, an energetic replication of the DNA of the human being which is magnetically coupled into a genome in your DNA.
		And that there are many levels of DNA and aging is essentially the loss of control of the differentiation of the DNA from the quantum electromagnetic pattern that we're calling a lattice.
		If you could somehow restore this control, theoretically you could grow back to whatever portion of the DNA you would activate.
		Now, Al speaks of being age regressed back to a one-year-old baby.
		I don't know whether or not the DNA is still there for that.
unidentified		If it is, I don't think it's impossible to do.
preston nichols ▲ ● ▼		Now, also, I run into one other person that the only thing that explains what's happened to him, and he seems truthful, I feel, is some sort of age regression.
		Now, I have not heard reports from other sources on this.
		See, when I hear a report like this, I consider where it's coming from, and I like to get maybe five or six reports saying, yes, age regression has happened.
		I haven't had it.
		I'll be like himself.
		One other source which I don't consider at all credible, and now the one we've run into very recently.
		So again, not to say it's impossible, but also I think it's a quite fantastic story that I wish was true.
		I'd like to have it myself.
		Yeah, you betcha.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Look, if it is possible to travel in time, And I don't know how to do age regression.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Right, I was going to say, I was going to ask you, Preston, if it's possible to travel in time, and I went back to, say, 1950, my chronological age at the end of the travel would still be what it is at just roughly the moment I left, wouldn't it?
preston nichols ▲ ● ▼		Yes, exactly.
		This is why I think if you're going to do age regression, you've got to do something through the DNA.
		You've got to somehow change the differentiation.
		To go back to the genome that you were replicating when you were like 20 years old, let's say.
		Well, that would be a... The body would grow young.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That would be a very delicate genetic manipulation indeed, wouldn't it?
preston nichols ▲ ● ▼		It may be electromagnetic.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Electromagnetic?
preston nichols ▲ ● ▼		Because it's being suggested by a lot of learned genetics, geneticists, that Dr. Glenn Ryan is showing a lot of research that All right, Preston, hold it right there.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		We'll be back after the bottom of the hour break.
unidentified		and forth.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Preston Nichols is my guest.
unidentified		Stay tuned for more of the Best of Art Bell right after a word from your local sponsors.
		The This is the CBC Radio Network.
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unidentified		Make more!
		When it happens, who will speak for you?
		Who will decide what happens to your minor children?
		Your property and personal effects?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And you?
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		The National Will Kit is lawyer approved and legal in all 50 states.
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		Only $19.95 plus shipping for the will kit and living will guide if you order today.
		Satisfaction is guaranteed. Call 1-800-224-1112. That's 1-800-224-1112.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		When the Soviets beat the U.S. basketball team in the 72 Olympics, America was outraged.
		When America's superstar speed skater lost in 92, we were shocked.
		But when our kid scored 14th in an international mathematics competition, we didn't even notice.
		America's schools haven't kept pace with the rest of the world.
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		As a result, we're losing our ability to compete economically.
		But it's not too late to turn things around.
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		To find out how together we can bring about the kind of improvement we desperately need, call 1-800-96-PROMISE.
		We'll send you a free booklet outlining how we can keep the promise of a real education for all of America's children and put ourselves back in the lead.
		A message from the Education Excellence Partnership and the Ad Council.
unidentified		Say, do you have fields, overgrown pastures, even scrubby wooded areas you'd like to keep clear?
		Well listen to what Clem Grabner of Fairfax, Virginia has to say about his amazing walk behind DR field and brush mower.
		We have 18 acres on the Shenandoah.
		We camp there.
preston nichols ▲ ● ▼		We used to have this one portion brush hogged and then it got so expensive that it's a mower.
preston nichols ▲ ● ▼		I think it paid for itself the first year.
unidentified		If you're gone a couple of weeks, the place is up to your knees again.
		So it's been a real pleasure to have it.
		Most of it you can't cut with a regular mower.
preston nichols ▲ ● ▼		This mower that we have is just the thing we needed.
		It's very reliable.
		It's got a good motor on it.
unidentified		You can get a big color catalog direct from our factory all about the DR Field and Brush Mower.
		Just call toll-free 1-800-FIELD-13.
		That's 1-800-F-I-E-L-D-13 for your free color catalog all about the amazing DR Field and Brush Mower.
		Well, I volunteer at the school, you know.
		And I'd see her sometimes with a rough crowd, but she didn't seem to fit in.
		Most people are afraid of me.
		They don't even talk to me.
		It's not right, a kid like that, hanging around with nothing to do.
		She just walked right up to me.
		But I like your work.
preston nichols ▲ ● ▼		Nobody's ever said that to me before.
unidentified		I want to see you paint something, I told her.
		And that's all it took.
		She got me to do it.
		I like it, because painting makes me look at things different.
preston nichols ▲ ● ▼		Always Kids.
unidentified		Helping you make a difference.
unidentified		It's BBC, Chancellor Broadcasting Company, for the strange and unusual It's Dreamland with Art Bell.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		What do we discuss on Dreamland?
		Two fascinating areas.
		Is there life after death and are we alone in the universe?
		Two ultimate questions mankind's been trying to answer for thousands of years.
		We'll be talking about it this week right here on Dreamland.
unidentified		So, let's get started.
		While Arthur is resting, recovering from the cold he caught flying home from Mexico,
		Chancellor Broadcasting Company presents Vintage Art Val and his classic two-hour interview
		with Preston Nichols on the Montauk Experiment.
		It's a dandy and one of Art's all-time favorite shows.
		And now, our number two of the two-hour interview with Preston Nichols on the Montauk Experiment.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		On the wild card line, you're on the air with Preston Nichols.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Hello.
unidentified		Hello, how's it going tonight?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay, sir, where are you?
unidentified		I am in Kansas City, Missouri, Art.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay.
unidentified		Love your show.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Thank you.
unidentified		Um, see, just listening and, uh, really don't have too much to say other than enjoying the show.
		Keep up what you're doing.
		All right, sir.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Thank you very much for the call.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		On the first time caller line, you're on the air with Preston Nichols.
unidentified		Hello.
unidentified		Yes, hi, Art.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Hello, sir.
unidentified		Yes, um, I'm from Long Island originally.
unidentified		And I just recently moved by the year and a half ago.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Where are you now?
unidentified		I'm in Youngstown, Ohio.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay.
unidentified		And I'm 28 years old, and I'm intelligent.
		I know for a fact that I've got a 138 IQ, borderline genius.
		Yet at the same time, I've always wondered why I was never in tune with what was going on politically.
		I never could quite understand the political process.
		You're not the only one.
		Yeah.
		I'm from Suffolk County.
		I'm from Huntington.
		And I moved in, it was July of 81, of 91 rather.
		July of 91, I moved from Suffolk County, I moved into Elmont in Nassau.
preston nichols ▲ ● ▼		That was where I had... We call it Suffolk County and Norsheth County.
unidentified		Yeah.
		That was where I first started listening to political commentary on talk radio.
		After that I moved to New Orleans and I really started to get involved.
		I started to know what was going on.
preston nichols ▲ ● ▼		What is the question?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		How does this relate to my guest, sir?
unidentified		What I'm saying is, you're talking about mind control, as fantastic as it sounds.
unidentified		It's starting to make a little bit of sense to me.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I don't know.
preston nichols ▲ ● ▼		Um... This is what a lot of people say considering... I mean, I was completely blind.
		I was completely blind when I was in Suffolk County.
		Considering what's happening, there's a lot going on.
		Uh-huh.
		Okay, we'll fix this.
		Um... Art was talking about the people just all of a sudden shooting.
unidentified		It confounds me how I was so blind until I moved out of Suffolk County, until I moved off of Long Island, really.
preston nichols ▲ ● ▼		Now I'm just sitting here and you're sitting right in the midst of the dissemination.
preston nichols ▲ ● ▼		Exactly.
unidentified		It just sounds so fantastic.
		In a way I can tell by your voice, by the entire conversation you've been having.
		It just sounds so fantastic.
		But it makes sense.
		I don't know.
preston nichols ▲ ● ▼		Well, I...
preston nichols ▲ ● ▼		Thank you.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It's been real science.
		Yeah, I have learned long ago not to stick up my nose at what appears to be fantastic
		because I've been surprised too many times.
		And I'm sure of this, Preston, that we as human beings, our government, whoever, the
		powers that be, would have great interest in mind control.
		And if they're not working on it, I think that would be more fantastic than believing
		that they are working on it.
		I mean, it's that simple.
preston nichols ▲ ● ▼		Well, I'd like to say at this point that if someone comes and asks me how much of the legend is true, I would tell them the Philadelphia Experiment is true, the mind control operation The mind control part of the project is probably 90 odd percent correct.
		I'm just not sure exactly how well the time tunnel works.
		That would be my assessment of how successful they were.
		So I thoroughly believe the mind control works and it's thoroughly possible.
		The only thing is they could not at that time work on mass population.
		Using the particle beam system that interacts with the brain directly.
unidentified		You don't need a signature anymore.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So you're saying that mass mind control is not necessarily possible?
preston nichols ▲ ● ▼		Today it is.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Today it is.
preston nichols ▲ ● ▼		Today it is because before you used to go in with a signature to a non-physical mind.
		Today they're using a particle beam to modulate the particle interchange between the synaptic interchanges in the brain.
		You either read patterns or modulate patterns on the brain.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh boy!
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So you're saying they could be sending out signals that are actually controlling the masses?
preston nichols ▲ ● ▼		Synaptic.
unidentified		Wow!
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Wonderful!
preston nichols ▲ ● ▼		The synaptic interchange.
preston nichols ▲ ● ▼		It's essentially ionic, and what is ionic?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Ions are particles.
		Yes, that's true.
		No, it's absolutely true.
preston nichols ▲ ● ▼		If you can create interference from one particle to another particle, you can modulate.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Alright, I've got a caller.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		On the wildcard line, you're on the air with Preston Nichols.
preston nichols ▲ ● ▼		Hello.
preston nichols ▲ ● ▼		I'm calling for Art Bell.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, that's me.
unidentified		Art?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
unidentified		This is Bob, down here in Santa Maria, California.
unidentified		Can you hear me?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, sir.
preston nichols ▲ ● ▼		Good morning, sir.
preston nichols ▲ ● ▼		I've been trying to call you.
unidentified		I'm a long-time listener, first-time caller.
preston nichols ▲ ● ▼		OK.
unidentified		You got a copy on me, sir?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I hear you fine.
unidentified		OK, OK.
preston nichols ▲ ● ▼		I had a complaint, but now I don't think I want to complain.
preston nichols ▲ ● ▼		I'd just like to talk to you and share a little of my situation with you, if I might.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, I have a guest, sir.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Are you calling for my guest?
preston nichols ▲ ● ▼		No, I was just calling.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, well, thank you very much, but please call back at another time.
		And on the toll-free line, you're on the air with Preston Nichols.
		Good evening.
preston nichols ▲ ● ▼		Hello?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Hello?
preston nichols ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, I just wondered if you could tell me.
preston nichols ▲ ● ▼		He advertised the shortwave radio the other night, and I didn't get the telephone number.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Alright, I'll give it to you.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		1-800-522-8863.
unidentified		1-800-522-8863.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		On the wildcard line, you're on the air with Preston Nichols.
		Hello.
		Oh, hello, Art.
unidentified		Hi.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		This is Lance Seattle, KPI.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		to It's in a suitcase.
unidentified		It's like a small suitcase, and it says on the side of it, for animal control use only, and, uh, when it's used, uh, for feeble control, uh, you can call the FPC and file a complaint, and they know all about it.
unidentified		It's, it's nothing new.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, it sure is new to me.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		What is it?
unidentified		I've been around since about 80.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		What is it?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		What is it, sir?
unidentified		Well, it just focuses on a specific part of the brain and then your mind starts to look in that area and you can see things in your own mind and hear things.
		It sounds like you're in a room full of people and there's nobody around or you can see eyes blinking in front of you and all kinds of things.
		It's all in your own mind.
		It's not outside your mind like a hollow man.
		But it does exist, and it doesn't take anything except to call the FCC to find out.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, I've never seen one.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I've never heard of one.
unidentified		Well, I just thought I'd add it to your program.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Alright, thank you.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I've never... Have you heard of such thing?
preston nichols ▲ ● ▼		I've heard rumors of it.
		I've heard rumors that this has been developed for years.
		See, what they're working there, that's mood control more than anything, I think.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I know, Preston, that there's been a lot of research done.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		On the effect of low frequencies on human beings.
preston nichols ▲ ● ▼		Exactly.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Is that what he's talking about?
preston nichols ▲ ● ▼		Well, what he's saying is it can transmit the effect of a whole room full of people, the eyes ahead of you.
		All this might be doing is fragmenting your own memories.
		Working directly physically into the brain.
		And this could be done with some sort of ELF-type device.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Alright.
		What about the transmissions made by the middle part of our country?
		Very powerful ELF transmissions to our submarines.
preston nichols ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, I forget what that's called.
preston nichols ▲ ● ▼		I know what you're talking about.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I was just wondering if you think that kind of level of low-frequency transmission could affect biological entities that are close to the source.
preston nichols ▲ ● ▼		That appears to be mostly sinusoidal teletype type modulation. Right. It's not direct on and off.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So without the pulsing you don't think there'd be a lot of effect. No. All right. Remember the
preston nichols ▲ ● ▼		mind itself, the brain will automatically even out a change in level. You got to change the level so
preston nichols ▲ ● ▼		fast that the DC restoration in the neurological system doesn't work. Can't deal with it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right. On the wild card line you're on the air with Preston Nichols. Good morning. Hello. Is
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Preston Nichols there? Yes. Right here, sir.
unidentified		Okay, you're talking about time travel, right?
preston nichols ▲ ● ▼		Yep.
unidentified		Okay, well I believe in time travel.
preston nichols ▲ ● ▼		Okay.
unidentified		Is time travel like what happens in your psychic ability, your dreams?
preston nichols ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, some people believe that.
unidentified		Okay, now how can they apply this to technology and science and stuff?
preston nichols ▲ ● ▼		Essentially, by taking what a person could dream or generating a virtual reality and Transmitting it through a very powerful transmitter and bringing it into our physical reality.
unidentified		Was it like a strong electromagnetism thing, you know, projected from the brain itself?
preston nichols ▲ ● ▼		So, was emanation from the human being projected through a very powerful electromagnetic transmitter?
preston nichols ▲ ● ▼		Yes, it was.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, sir.
preston nichols ▲ ● ▼		Thank you.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's exactly how it was done.
		In other words, the human brain does generate a signal.
		It is A very weak signal normally, isn't that?
preston nichols ▲ ● ▼		It's actually a virtual state signal.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It's what?
preston nichols ▲ ● ▼		It's what we call a quantum wave.
		It does not fully exist in our reality.
		It exists in the reality that the imaginary solutions in our mathematics, you know, the sign functions represent.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You're starting to lose me, Preston.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Reduce that so I can understand it.
preston nichols ▲ ● ▼		Well, you know, when you do a complex calculation, the bigger phase angle, you get sine, cosine functions, real world, imaginary functions.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
preston nichols ▲ ● ▼		The human emanations are based upon the imaginary functions, not the real.
		But you're 100% right.
		The real world emanations from a human being are very weak, but the imaginary world emanations are very strong.
		This is why you need, typically, vacuum potential to detect this stuff.
		This is why you're better off with an older vacuum tube receiver.
		Of course, I think you're well aware of the debate over which works better.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I certainly am, yes.
		On the wild card line, you're on the air with Preston Nichols.
		Hello.
unidentified		Marty, what about the nuclear waste?
unidentified		What about the nuclear waste?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, I don't think we're going to deal with that one.
		On the wild card line, you're on the air with Preston Nichols.
		Hello.
unidentified		Radio Free America.
preston nichols ▲ ● ▼		Hello.
unidentified		Hello, Mr. Nichols.
		How are you doing?
		Okay.
		I tell you what, you know, I wouldn't have bought this for a second if there wasn't something really weird going on in the world today.
		But my question is, and Linda Thompson talked about the holograph, and you were talking about cracking into the underworld.
		Could this be described as hell?
preston nichols ▲ ● ▼		Uh, hell or whatever you make it.
unidentified		Well, I'm talking about, you know, the biblical aspects of what you're describing in the underworld.
unidentified		And, uh, have you ever seen any alien beings?
preston nichols ▲ ● ▼		All right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Preston, have you?
preston nichols ▲ ● ▼		Yes, I've seen some alien beings.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You have?
preston nichols ▲ ● ▼		Who or what they are beats the hell out of me.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		What have you seen, exactly?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And how and where?
preston nichols ▲ ● ▼		At Montauk, they had a little creature that looked all the world like the Little Greys as described by Whitley Strieber.
unidentified		Oh?
preston nichols ▲ ● ▼		About four foot tall, and they sunk to high heaven.
unidentified		Stunk?
preston nichols ▲ ● ▼		And then we had a thing that resembled a cross between a lizard and a human being.
preston nichols ▲ ● ▼		What it was, I really don't know.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I have heard that description before, too.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Kind of reptilian.
preston nichols ▲ ● ▼		Yeah.
		The closest thing, there was an old Star Trek episode where Captain Jerk bought something called a Gorn.
		That sort of looked like what I saw at Montauk.
		Now I will say, I don't drink, I don't use drugs, I don't do any of that stuff.
unidentified		I also don't hallucinate.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Have you ever been under the care of a psychiatrist?
		Nope.
		No?
		Alright, I just had to add that one in there.
unidentified		No, that's a valid question.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I mean, some of this, you've got to admit Preston, it's wild stuff.
preston nichols ▲ ● ▼		I know it's wild stuff, but this is why I doubted my own sanity at times.
preston nichols ▲ ● ▼		Myself.
unidentified		Some of it's a collusion, it's not me.
preston nichols ▲ ● ▼		I was seeing this crud real.
preston nichols ▲ ● ▼		Also, a lot of the other people in Montauk thought the same thing and described exactly the same.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		How many other people have corroborated what you're saying, or even parts, substantial parts of what you're saying?
preston nichols ▲ ● ▼		Oh, about 30-odd people.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		30-odd people.
		All right.
		On the toll-free line, you're on the air with Preston Nichols.
		Hello.
preston nichols ▲ ● ▼		Hi, I'm Mr. Bell.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Hi, where are you please?
preston nichols ▲ ● ▼		I'm calling from New Orleans.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		New Orleans, Louisiana, okay.
preston nichols ▲ ● ▼		Yeah.
unidentified		I wanted to talk a little bit about the gun issue.
preston nichols ▲ ● ▼		Is that okay?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, that's not what we're talking about right now, sir.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I've got a guest.
unidentified		Oh, I didn't know, because your show is not on yet.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I see.
unidentified		On our radio.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
unidentified		I'll check back another time.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, I appreciate it.
		Thank you.
		That's New Orleans, Louisiana, about to come on.
		On the wild card line, you're on the air with Preston Nichols.
preston nichols ▲ ● ▼		Hello.
		Yeah, Art.
		I'm sure these kind of projects have to involve a great deal of money.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		No doubt about it.
preston nichols ▲ ● ▼		No doubt, yes.
		And they say to solve all mysteries, you follow the money trail.
		True.
		Isn't anybody checking what's going on?
unidentified		I mean, if Area 51 exists, there's got to be billions going into that.
preston nichols ▲ ● ▼		And if he's talking, there's got to be billions going into this.
		Is anybody keeping track of the money?
		Are the Senators aware of this?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Alright, alright.
		Hold on a sec.
		That's a good question.
		All I can tell you is this.
		I don't know about what Preston's saying, but I can tell you darn well Area 51 does exist.
		Billions do go into it.
		And that's a fact.
		And so Preston, what about the money angle in Montauk?
preston nichols ▲ ● ▼		Well, we had an interest from the office of Senator Barry Goldwater, quite a few in the middle 80s, and I was told that they could not trace any congressional appropriations for the Montauk Project.
		Now, I was handed a list of companies here on Long Island that are all either reorganized or out of business today.
		The interesting thing to note is right after this happened, about six months to a year later, They started what they call CORE audits.
unidentified		They said they were looking for a $250 toilet seat.
preston nichols ▲ ● ▼		Why would they go ask the worker on the floor, what are you working on?
		The only reason they'd ask the worker on the floor, what are you working on, is they're looking for hidden projects.
		Montauk was a hidden project.
		There's rumors that the Montauk project was financed by gold smuggled from the Nazis.
		We really don't know.
		This is something that Al Belick has suggested.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
		Preston, hold on a moment.
		We'll be right back to you.
		My guest is Preston Nichols.
		He's talking about the Montauk Project.
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		Well, if you did, you know how good a deal it is.
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		All they grow is miniature carnations.
		As far as the eye can see, miniature carnations.
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		And you get some... You know, the deal is just incredible.
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		That's FedEx, by the way.
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		You call today, they deliver tomorrow.
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		That's 1-800-562-6438.
		Absolutely fresh flowers.
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		Write this number down, 1-800-444-1049.
		Of course, you need to meet some investor qualifications, and they'll send you a free
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		You know, one problem with the Internet is you cannot curl up in a warm bed with a great website.
unidentified		Or if you can, you're too weird for me.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So the next best thing, if you don't happen to have the Internet and you are not privy to the photographs we put up there and the information, then you can get it in the Art Bell After Dark newsletter.
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		For example, coming up Joyce Riley, Dr. Leonard Horowitz, Major Ed Dames.
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unidentified		1-800-917-4278.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Just ask about the Art Bell After Dark newsletter.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Back now to Preston Nichols.
unidentified		Preston?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		four hours a day including now one eight hundred nine one seven four two seven
preston nichols ▲ ● ▼		Yeah?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		eight just ask about the art bill after our newsletter back now to press the nickels of president
		uh... you know there are a lot of people listening
		or who would fax me a right to me or you and would say you're crazy is a loon
		uh... what What would you say to them?
		How would you defend that?
		Now technically you have a lot of details and I am impressed by that but some of it is quite admittedly pretty fantastic stuff.
preston nichols ▲ ● ▼		It's very fantastic stuff.
preston nichols ▲ ● ▼		The first thing I would mention is people used to say to me, they remember me from the Mob Talk days.
unidentified		I didn't remember them until I broke the memory blocks I had.
preston nichols ▲ ● ▼		This stuff is highly possible.
		We have a lot of witnesses.
		I think we have to look at, can a thousand Frenchmen be wrong?
		We have no real world documentation, evidence, proof.
		The only proof we have is that they're doing something strange, even to this day.
		We were talking a 420 to 460 megahertz broadcast.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's right.
preston nichols ▲ ● ▼		And we're still finding emanations in the same frequency range to this day.
		I first got excited thinking I was picking up the signal out of time from the 70s and the 80s, but I came to realize, no, this is generated today.
		If they're doing something like this today, fitting the specs, sending out a very strong EOS signal that I picked up on coils as pulses without a carrier, And the carrier.
		If they're still sending out, that means the equipment I'm describing is there to this day producing signal, and it probably was there in the 70s and the 80s, and they probably were playing back then.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, it also raises an awful lot of questions.
preston nichols ▲ ● ▼		Yes, it does.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, for example, for us, not just the shootings, the mindless head-shaker shootings that are going on, but society's behavior in general Is very strange indeed, and is deteriorating in my view, and the view of most others who stand back and view it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Things are out of control, the state of civilization is less, people's tempers are short, and when it's the worst case, they're picking up guns and shooting each other.
preston nichols ▲ ● ▼		How would you react if you had a hammer pounding on your head continuously?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You'd eventually get irritated and do something awful.
preston nichols ▲ ● ▼		You gotta think of all this stuff that they're sending out into the ether, purposefully or accidentally, is like someone sitting, tapping on your head with a hammock.
		Neurological system operates on a pseudo-random order pulse function.
		You read any book on brain activity, that's the first thing they say.
		If you take the neurological signal out of a nerve, put it into an audio amplifier, it sounds like static.
unidentified		This is CBC. This is CBC.
		If you've missed any part of tonight's interviews with Al Bielek or Preston Nichols and you'd like to have a copy on tape, dial toll-free 1-800-917-4278 and ask for tape number 970217C.
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