With Matt Cameron! Trump was found guilty by a jury in the Southern District of New York for all 34 charges of falsifying business records in furtherance of a crime. The Right immediately lost their mind. We visit some of our usual suspects around the WTW-verse in this historic moment. And we'll be playing just a selection of this in the episode, but if you're crazy like us, you can watch Trump's full speech from this morning here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iszZq7x3La8&t=78s Side note - for your viewing pleasure: https://x.com/TheRightMelissa/status/1796521491682443536 ...do you think they know? If you enjoy our work, please consider leaving a 5-star review! You can always email questions, comments, and leads to lydia@seriouspod.com. Please pretty please consider becoming a patron at patreon.com/wherethereswoke!
Anywhere you see diversity, equity, and inclusion, you see Marxism and you see woke principles being pushed.
Wokeness is a virus more dangerous than any pandemic hands down.
The woke monster is here and it's coming for everything.
Instead of go-go boots, the seductress green Eminem will now wear sneakers.
Hello and welcome to Where There's Woke.
I'm Thomas.
That's Lydia.
How you doing?
I am doing... I don't know.
I'm doing pretty well.
I am happy.
Maybe happier than I've been in a while.
Because something big happened.
Fourth kid.
No, just kidding.
No, it's an opening arguments crossover.
How's it going?
Matt Cameron, Real Live Attorney.
Hey, happy to be with you on Where There's Woke.
What a great time to be talking about, well, whatever we're going to talk about, but I assume it's about Trump.
It sure is.
You know, sometimes we cross the streams and the freak out over Trump being convicted.
Let's just say there was a disturbance in the force, in the right wing bullshit sphere.
It's incredible.
The ripples were felt everywhere.
I started bookmarking things on Twitter for hours the other night.
So much great material.
If we were just want to do like a four hour bonus episode of OA where we just get into this stuff.
Oh, we do.
Yeah, we will someday.
I mean, just people who call themselves lawyers, the things they're saying, it's incredible.
Oh, man.
Well, before we get into any of that conversation, Matt, I wanted to invite you to subject you to Trump talking about what happened with the verdict.
And, you know, folks who follow the news or listen to OA, you guys did a kind of live reaction episode.
Trump was found guilty on all 34 counts of falsifying business records, which, duh, First time hearing about this.
But still, you know, a big deal that this actually is happening, right?
And as Thomas mentioned, the reaction from the right is absolutely incredible.
We have some things from our usual suspects, but before we get into that, I wanted to kind of focus on the man himself, because his reaction was also incredible.
He delivered, the day after, about a 33-34 minute speech.
Not prepped, really, at all.
Just winging it, as he does.
Yeah, contrast to his normally erudite and well-researched speeches.
This one seemed more off the cuff!
So why don't we just head on over because we got a few clips we're going to play from this freaking guy.
Hey, I don't love listening to Trump, but when he's been convicted of 34 counts, this is something that Lydia was like.
This is another one of those ones where we were spoiler free household.
And Lydia was like, oh, my God, I can't wait for you to see this.
Yeah.
I mean, honestly, there's so much gold in most of the speech, but we can't sit here for 34 minutes.
No.
We're going to do some selections.
You haven't heard any?
Oh my god.
Start from the beginning.
Just kidding.
Let's do it.
We just went through one of many experiences where we had a conflicted judge.
Highly conflicted.
There's never been a more conflicted judge.
Now I'm under a gag order, which nobody's ever been under.
No presidential candidate's ever been under a gag order before.
I'm under a gag order.
Nasty gag order.
Where I've had to pay thousands of dollars in penalties and fines, and was threatened with jail.
Think of it, I'm the leading candidate.
I'm leading Biden by a lot, and I'm leading the Republicans to the point where that's over.
I'm the leading person, the president, and I'm under a gag order.
By a man that can't put two sentences together.
Come on, do it!
That's more... Like, you know how they had, like, they wanted to build that wall, like, back in the day?
They always wanted to hear the tagline.
I've gotten to the point where I actually, unironically, please say he gagged me.
It's the best thing I've ever said.
It's my favorite thing.
The way that both of my fists were quenched waiting for it.
It was so exciting.
We gotta make t-shirts with that on there.
No context.
He gagged me!
That hasn't been played on this show.
Now it's a nasty gag.
Yeah, nasty gag.
So we'll make sure to put that in for people to hear, you know, the hits on this show as well.
Unconstitutionally gagged.
He gagged me.
So I'm not even supposed to be, I would say, talking to you because he gagged me!
...function with the White House and the DOJ, just so you understand.
This is all done by Biden and his people.
Maybe his people more importantly.
I don't know if Biden knows too much about it.
Because I don't know if he knows about anything.
But he's nevertheless the president, so we have to use his name.
Oh, yes.
And this is done by Washington.
And nobody's ever seen anything like it.
So we have a judge who's highly conflicted.
You know what the confliction is.
Nobody... I do.
Nobody wants to write about it.
And I'm not allowed to talk about it.
If I do, you said I get put in jail.
So we'll play that game a little bit longer.
We won't talk about it, but you're allowed to talk about it.
I hope you do.
What is it?
Because there's never been anybody so conflicted as this.
Oh man, he's not going to tell us.
As far as the trial itself.
He's a law-abiding man.
It was very unfair.
We weren't allowed to use our election expert.
Under any circumstances.
You saw what happened to some of the witnesses that were on our side.
They were literally crucified by this man, who looks like an angel, but he's really a devil.
He looks so nice and soft.
People say, oh, he seems like such a nice man.
No, unless you saw him in action.
And you saw that.
With a certain witness that went through hell.
He's talking about Costello.
And when we wanted to do things, he wouldn't let us do those things.
But when the government wanted something, they got everything.
They got everything they wanted.
Yeah, there's so much good stuff around.
So, I mean, debunk mode on, right?
Like, false, false, false.
Oh, God.
Yeah.
Do you consider Marshawn a devil?
Well, apparently his skin is smooth.
Is that what he was saying?
He's a smooth guy?
Do you mean literally?
Yeah, I don't know.
I can't debunk that one way or another, but...
Well, we'll get someone to try to feel him.
Just walk by.
Yeah.
So we started off, I think he was talking about Matthew Colangelo, which is their favorite conspiracy of the day here.
So Matthew Colangelo was a DOJ prosecutor, but he was also for a very long time, Manhattan DA.
And then he came back to work at the DA's office after DOJ.
And they just, because of this connection, and I've literally, I've seen tweets from people like circling him in the background.
There it is.
There's the, there's the Biden guy installed to do this.
You know, Biden like sent an envoy to make sure that this happened.
So that's what he was starting that, that piece we just played talking about.
And is that false, Matt?
Oh, yeah, I just thought it spoke for itself.
But yeah, no, Matthew Colangelo is his own man.
And as far as I can tell, was not installed there by the Biden administration.
And obviously, I don't think I need, I mean, where there's work audiences is at least as smart as the OA audience, I'm sure.
And I don't need to tell you that the federal government had nothing to do with this prosecution whatsoever at all.
Yeah.
I know Matt Gaetz was the other day, just maybe yesterday, trying to get Garland to admit or to acknowledge like communications between them.
He wants, you know, he's trying to order everything, but whatever.
It's not happening.
There's nothing there.
Why do you even need that?
Cause like New York is corrupt too, right?
Isn't New York, the blue Democrat state of whatever.
I don't know why you would even need this alleged cooperation.
They're pretty good at prosecuting people and putting them in jail.
As far as I know, they don't need DOJ support to do that.
Him complaining about paying thousands of dollars like it matters to him.
So obnoxious.
$9,000 just for things I said and did.
Yeah, because you violated a court order.
Like that's what happens.
Also, it's pennies for you.
So shut up.
But the fines, of course, pale next to the literal crucifixion that has also been going on.
Yeah.
Wow.
I didn't, I missed that.
The streets of Manhattan are bloody with crucifixions.
Yep.
Yep.
Yeah.
The one that I hope we do a law debunk of sometime is the FEC one or whatever.
They wouldn't let that guy testify, which is kind of real, right?
I think he was going to limit the testimony, right?
Right.
He's still a defense expert who could have been called, but they essentially wanted him to testify about the law, you know, in a way that the judge has to do, you know, to give them the law.
And I think that there was, we'll get into it, but there's kind of a dispute about, you know, how much of it was expert testimony and how much of it would infringe on the, you know, the judge's ability to charge the jury and all that.
But, you know, again, it's their witness.
They still could have put him on with the limits and they were not on reasonable limits, but that's just me, I guess.
Well, you're one of them, so.
Yeah.
Matt, would you characterize the trial as the state getting everything that they wanted from this and Trump's team getting nothing that they wanted?
Well, in the broader sense, I guess so.
They got 34 counts.
Results-wise, sure, but that's not what- That's what they wanted, you know.
I mean, it was like any other trial, and I haven't finished reading the transcript, so I don't know exactly how it ends, but I will say- Oh, you're gonna love how it ends.
Sorry, no spoilers.
Yeah, from the top line I've seen, it looks pretty good.
But it's like any other trial, though, where there's give and take, and the prosecution gets something and the defense doesn't get something.
And the prosecution was asking for all kinds of things that they didn't get in, and the defense wanted to do things like argue that he was immune because he was president when he was doing some of this stuff, you know, or that evidence couldn't come in.
It was just, you know, there were some wild arguments on both sides, but I wouldn't say in my review of this that anything all that unusual, trial-wise, has happened in this case.
He also goes on to talk about why he didn't testify and that he wanted to testify.
So we're going to skip ahead a little bit.
Imagine even a machete being wielded in a store in a place where they're eating and it's going rampant and Bragg is down watching a trial on what they call Crimes.
Crimes.
Falsifying business records.
That sounds so bad.
To me, it sounds very bad.
You know, it's only a misdemeanor.
But to me, it sounds so bad.
When they say, falsifying business — that's a bad thing for me.
I've never had that before.
I'm falsifying — you know what falsifying business records is?
In the first degree.
They say, falsifying business records.
Sounds so good, right?
It means that legal expense — I paid a lawyer, totally legal.
I paid a lawyer a legal expense, and a bookkeeper, without any knowledge from me, correctly marked it down in the books.
A very professional woman, highly respected, she testified.
Marked it down in the books as a legal expense.
So a legal expense Pay to lawyer is a legal expense in the books.
It's not sheetrock, construction, or any other thing.
It's a legal expense.
What the fuck is that?
That's one of his other line items?
And I said, what else are you going to call it?
What else are you going to call it?
Now, I would have testified.
I wanted to testify.
The theory is you never testify, because as soon as you testify — anybody.
If it were George Washington, don't testify, because he'll get you on something that you said slightly wrong, and then they sue you for perjury.
But I didn't care about that.
I wanted to.
But the judge allowed them to go into everything that I was ever involved in — not this case — everything that I was ever involved in, which is a first.
In other words, you could go into every single thing That I ever did.
Was he a bad boy here?
Was he a bad boy there?
I only have one lifetime here, man.
I can't do that.
All you wanted to do is testify simply on this case, because I would have loved to have testified.
To this day, I would have liked to have testified.
Oh, yes.
Absolutely.
But you would have said something out of whack, like, it was a beautiful, sunny day, and it was actually raining out.
There you go.
And I very much appreciate the big crowd of people outside.
That's incredible what's happening.
The level of support has been incredible.
So the whole thing is legal expense was marked down as legal expense.
Think of it.
This is the crime that I committed that I'm supposed to go to jail for 187 years for.
When you have violent crime all over this city at levels that nobody's ever seen before.
Yeah, and they don't prosecute any of those criminals.
This prosecutor's office only prosecutes one crime at a time, actually.
It's a weird tradition that they have.
Right.
They're like, ah, we used it up.
We used up our crime on this.
All of our prosecutors are busy.
187 years.
Wow.
He's going to go away for a long time.
I mean, that's the multiply all the 30.
That's not even the right number, right, for that.
That is how long it would take to hold a trial where you review everything he's ever done wrong, though.
I'm pretty sure.
Yeah, that's true.
If you wanted full due process on every Trump crime, I think it would be about 187 years.
I love that he has to say that while simultaneously pretending he hasn't done anything wrong.
Well, they would have gotten to go into everything.
Yeah.
Everything I've ever...
Why would that be a problem?
Why would that be a problem at all?
So let's talk about the retainer thing for a minute, because this is very funny, obviously.
I mean, we already know that this was not a retainer, that there were no legal services performed, but we also know that because Trump told us that, and Rudy Giuliani told us that a few years ago.
There's a tweet, because there's always a tweet, and I just pulled it up while he was talking, because I remembered this tweet so well.
This makes no sense to me, but this is his official statement about it.
Mr. Cohen, an attorney, received a monthly retainer, not from the campaign and having nothing to do with the campaign, from which he entered into three reimbursement, A private contract between two parties, known as an NDA.
And it goes on from there.
But he's acknowledging that the $130,000 was, well, he says retainer, but then he says it was used only to pay off Stormy Daniels.
So he's got it in writing already.
And then Giuliani went on and said even some more about how he knew all about it.
And, you know, so yeah, for what it's worth, I know it's not worth catching these people and, you know, these things, but just so you know, there's a public statement to the opposite out there already from 2018.
Because of course there is.
Of course there is, exactly.
All of these things that he's saying now, he proudly said back years ago now at this point, and that's a perfect example of that.
I think one of the biggest things that I've learned from watching all of the reactions is One, the rhetoric, and we'll talk about that later, but the rhetoric is just all gonna be the same, and they have specific talking points like they always do, and they're organizing around a specific few, and that people will just
Take whatever is being said at them in that moment as the truth and move forward, even when it's the same people told them something else like three years ago.
They just don't have that long-term memory or they actively are ignoring it or something is going on, but it's just...
I don't know.
It's pretty scary how quickly people flip and just kind of move on to the next reality that Trump and the right have decided to create in the moment, even when it's completely opposite the reality that they were speaking about a couple years prior.
That's really it, because fascism, which again is, I think we can agree the MAGA movement is a proto-fascist, if not full-on fascist movement at this point, requires a relationship with truth.
Like that's fundamentally what fascism is, I think.
I'm not a scholar, but if you can make your own reality, make your own truth, then you can do anything else you want.
And we've seen that, of course, over and over again with Trump.
But this is, the things I'm seeing online and the way that like pretty mainstream right-wing people are talking about this, the way that elected representatives are talking about this is just so far From any kind of reality.
It's distressing, honestly.
Let me tell you a couple of those tweets that I've been seeing.
Like you're saying, the elected representatives, we have folks that are vying for the vice presidency, right?
So this is an opportunity for them to stand up and prove that they're the right pick for VP, essentially.
J.D.
Vance tweeted out, This decision is a disgrace to the rule of law and our Constitution.
Dems invented a felony to get Trump with the help of a Soros-funded prosecutor and a Biden donor judge who rigged the entire case to get this outcome.
This isn't justice, it's election interference.
I don't even know what that would be.
How would a private person fund a prosecutor?
That's, I guess, what I'm asking.
Does campaign or something?
I think that's part of it.
But even, and I say even, Fox News' landing page for their website, the very first picture is a picture of George Soros' son.
And the caption says, far left Soros' son directs Democrats on how they should refer to Trump after historic conviction.
So this is part of the rhetoric.
It's invoking Soros.
I didn't even know who this was or anything.
Everyone's an anti-Semite.
But yeah, it's like they are finding ways because George Soros is the big baddie, I guess, for the right.
So they're finding ways to tie him in to this.
It's crazy.
Is the thing that The Sun was encouraging everyone to call him, was that a convicted felon by chance?
Yes, that's exactly it.
And the thing is, we didn't have that idea until George Soros' son told us and incepted it into our brains.
Isn't that crazy?
Oh man, we could call him a convicted felon.
Katie Britt, everybody's favorite kitchen...
Representative said today is a sad and shameful day.
Democrats just set the dangerous, destructive precedent of the party in power weaponizing prosecutorial powers against their political adversary.
This is a hallmark of a banana republic, not a constitutional republic.
Make no mistake, Americans won't tolerate a two-tiered system of justice, and the real verdict will come on November 5th.
I'm pretty sure we've had a two-tiered system of justice.
Ask any person of color and it's kind of been that way already.
So that's kind of an interesting thing.
Banana Republic has been a big talking point for everybody on the right as well.
Yeah, I don't know.
Again, I think the central problem here is that this was the state of New York and has nothing the fuck to do with Biden or the Democrats.
It's just nothing.
It's just any prosecution of Trump, definitionally to them, is just Biden.
And it's just such a, I don't know what it's like.
That's the thing that's so hard about all of this is like, I don't know what it's like to just have like custard in your brain.
I don't know what, I can't, you know, when you're trying to solve a problem or think about different ideas or different movements and you try to think about like, well, okay, what are the ideas that go into this?
How are these people thinking?
Like, I don't know how to evaluate or relate to people who just, The things they care about have nothing to do with reality.
It's just, as long as they say it in a really tough manner, like, this is Biden prosecuting me, then they're like, oh, I guess that's what it is.
What do you do about that?
Such an unsolvable problem.
I know how I feel when I'm evaluating claims.
I try to look stuff up and see who has said what and where the experts lie.
Nerd.
Yeah, it's like, how do you do this?
What are we supposed to do?
It's impossible.
None of this is related to any facts.
No, it's not.
And so there's actually going to be a hearing on June 13th in Congress, the Select Subcommittee on the Weaponization of the Federal Government.
Jim Jordan is the chair of that.
And he has now called for Colangelo and Bragg to appear so they can testify about the unprecedented political prosecution of President Trump.
So we'll be having that in about a week.
Unbelievable.
Well, if it goes as well as the Fauci one did, we'll see.
I almost don't mind these congressional thingies.
I mean, again, it's so hard to know what matters, if anything, but, like, the congressional things, on one hand, they do get to point to their little sound bites or they get to point to the fact that, like, it happened and that somehow legitimizes their conspiracy theories.
But on the other hand, what happens is they go and they ask Fauci, like, how many millions did you receive from Big Pharma?
And he's like, zero dollars.
Yeah.
Yeah.
What?
Zero dollars?
Well, I mean, I got like a hundred dollars in 1989.
I'm like, okay.
Like, you know, like I don't, I don't mind it because it's all bullshit, but, but also I'm sure no matter what it is, they can twist it into the results that they think they got.
It's a tremendous waste of Albenberg's time, but you know, it's like the election lawsuits, right?
Where as soon as they get to court and they collide with like actual judicial process and, you know, things being under oath, like it all falls apart.
And this I'm sure will be a circus as it's what it's for, but who knows?
I'll probably watch some of it.
So Marjorie Taylor Greene's on that committee as well.
When the verdict came out, she tweeted an upside down flag.
So did the Heritage Foundation.
They also tweeted an upside down flag.
I have not seen anyone report back from Alito's house.
I wish that there was somehow a drone flag nearby.
I think she's going to be on pretty good flag behavior.
I don't know.
I feel like maybe what if there's like a little mini one that she puts in the window, like a decal, and she just like flips it upside down.
Yeah.
I mean, really, these people can't help themselves and there are no consequences for anything they do.
So who knows?
But I feel like she's on flag probation right now, I think.
We'll see.
But there's not just, you know, folks that are leaders within the United States concerned about this.
The Twitter account EndWokeness said, world leaders express horror at the Trump verdict in Manhattan.
Do you want to guess which world leaders they are?
Putin and that guy from the Philippines.
Turkey.
All the best ones.
So, Italian deputy PM Matteo Salvini, and he says, solidarity and support for Trump, victim of judicial harassment and a process of political nature.
Fascist to fascist.
We've all been there, man.
Yeah.
In Italy, we are sadly familiar with weaponization of justice by the left.
The Hungarian PM, Viktor Orban.
Let the people make their verdict this November.
Keep fighting, Mr. President.
Nigel Farage in the UK.
The verdict is a disgrace.
And then from the Kremlin, not Putin, but the spokesman for the Kremlin, Dmitry Peskov.
There is simply the elimination, in effect, of political rivals by all possible means, legal and illegal.
No, that was just him talking about what's happening.
Exactly!
Is this about Trump's trial?
Trump's trial?
What the fuck are you talking about?
I'm just saying what we just did.
We proudly eliminated all rivals.
We've got international experts on New York Penal Law and 175.
I mean, as they've really done their research.
Oh, I know, they know.
It's very impressive that they understand this law.
Wow.
Makes you feel dumb, Matt, for going to law school, you idiot.
That's right.
Why did you waste your time with that?
So, I want to go to 708 because— Already there.
Okay, great.
Because Trump is going to tell us why this all matters.
Get involved with that.
I could go through the books of any Business person in this city and I could find things that in theory I guess let's indict him.
Let's destroy his life I don't mind being out there because I'm doing something for this country and I'm doing something for our Constitution.
And that is having sex with porn stars while my wife is pregnant.
This can't be allowed to happen to other presidents.
It should never be allowed to happen to In the future.
But this is far beyond me.
This is bigger than Trump.
This is bigger than me.
This is bigger than my presidency.
And the people understand it because I just see a poll just came out, the Daily Mail.
That was the first one that came out.
It was done last night right after the verdict, where I'm up six points.
Six points from what we already were.
We were leading fairly substantially.
We're up six points in the Daily Mail poll.
Maybe other polls come out and say something differently.
But a lot of people have predicted it because the public understands and they understand what's going on.
This is a scam.
This is a rigged trial.
It shouldn't have been in that venue.
We shouldn't have had that judge.
He should have allowed us to have an election expert.
We had the best expert, most respected expert, head of the Federal Elections Commission.
He was all set to testify.
He was waiting for two days.
And when it was his turn, Bragg's people protested.
And the judge knocked him out, said you can't testify.
He actually said you can't testify for anything having to do with the trial.
You can say what the federal elections is.
Well, that doesn't help.
Everybody knows that.
But you can't testify.
So essentially, he wasn't able to testify.
Other people weren't able to testify.
But with these people, they were able to use people salacious.
By the way, and nothing ever happened.
There was no anything.
Nothing ever happened.
There was no anything.
That's my statement.
They were salacious as they could be.
And it had nothing to do with the case.
That's my defense, Matt.
But it had to do with politics.
Next time I'm in trouble.
And did you notice the timing?
The timing was perfect.
This case was dead.
It was dropped by every agency, every governmental board.
I kind of doubt that.
It was dropped by the highly respected Southern District.
They said, no, there's no case here.
It was dropped by federal election, and that's what it's about.
This is about a federal election, not a state election.
You're not even allowed to look at it.
They took the state and the city, and they went into a federal election.
They're not allowed.
The people from federal election, Southern District, and Washington dropped the case.
Everybody dropped the case.
There was no case.
Oh, I didn't have it.
And when Bragg came in, he said, this is the most ridiculous case I've ever seen.
And who would have a certain person, again, gag order, who would have a certain person like this ever testify?
He said, this is essentially one of the worst people I've ever seen ever to testify.
He said, the craziest case I've ever seen.
This is Bragg.
Then when I announced I was running for president, Long time later, they decided to revive this case.
And they got a judge.
He gagged me!
That's all I want to hear.
Come on, do the line.
Who was responsible for another case that was also brought.
It destroyed the life of a very good man, by the way.
Destroyed the life of a very good man.
Weisselberg.
Who went to prison once.
And then they just put him in prison again because they said he lied.
So the fantasy I just had while I was listening to that is if he had, on the last day of trial, just shoved Todd Blanche aside and just been like, I got this.
I'm doing the closing.
That would have been the closing.
It would have been so good.
But no.
I mean, I guess he couldn't have been found any more guilty.
So trial wise, unless they added a few counts just from his testimony, but it would have been fun.
Yeah.
Well, yeah, I mean, he's so mad that they didn't get to bring in an election law expert to say that he didn't do it, which is what they were trying to do.
Yeah.
I mean, I guess his main piece there is this thread of this was a non-case, you know, like all these different entities dropped it and they didn't take it.
So why now all of a sudden?
And what actually was that process like?
That's somewhat true, right?
So none of those entities that I heard that he named were state entities that would have the power to prosecute New York Penal Law 175.
So when he says this case, that's not true.
He's just saying the Mueller investigation didn't think it was important enough because of course they didn't.
And the FEC did sign some kind of deal with Michael Cohen, at least, and with Pecker as well.
We learned with David Pecker, the FEC got some trouble with him.
So he certainly thought there was something going on around the edges here.
But when he's talking, I guess as a lawyer, when I hear this case, I think these charges in this court.
That's what he means by this case.
This case could only have been brought by this DA's office.
But he's insistent that it is a case regarding the election, and the election was a federal election, so why is the state even bringing it?
Yeah, and I love the idea that every entity, every governmental everything, like the Department of the Interior, the military.
They all looked at it in order.
They're like, why are we all looking at this?
I don't know, we all have to go through this.
And every one of them was like, this is not a case.
Until, weirdly enough, they got to the actual jurisdiction which would prosecute.
This is the only place you could actually prosecute this case.
And they're like, well, actually, we disagree with all of you guys.
But that federal thing, they've been kicking that around a lot.
And Vivek Ramaswamy actually had an incredible legal theory.
I don't know if it's worth breaking down here, but it's certainly at some point I want to talk about why this could be a federal issue and why the Supreme Court should take it.
But, you know, at the end of the day, as I think listeners may know, under this statute, Alvin Bragg only had to prove that Trump falsified these records with the intent to commit another crime.
Not that he actually committed another crime, but that some other crime was, you know, was out there.
And there were some options in this case, and one of the options was a violation of federal election law.
So that's perfectly legit.
It's not unusual in any way, but they're acting like this is just an absolutely insane abrogation of anything resembling justice.
Just, you know, just miscarriage of justice all around because they're actually reading the law the way it was written.
That's, I guess, what they're mad at the judge for.
Well, since you brought him up, why don't we talk about Vivek for a second?
His initial tweet was, the only thing more third world than the New York courtroom was the sham trial that played out inside.
Second rate judge, third rate prosecutors, fourth rate star witness.
The judge specifically instructed the jury that they didn't have to agree on the crime to convict.
Shameful.
And he tweeted that kind of immediately and then posted a video that I just sent over to you, Hunt, if you want to play it, because he was flying to Italy while he tweeted.
And once he landed, he sent a video for the Internet.
With some of the fascists to get notes on it.
Yeah, exactly.
We're going to the source.
I just got to Italy.
I was traveling here while the Trump verdict came down.
And I have to say that when people here ask me what the heck is going on in your country, I am ashamed.
If this were happening in another country, and we in the United States heard about a party in power that was using prosecutorial force to bring fake charges against a leading opponent in the middle of an election, we would call that the stuff of a banana republic.
And yet, now that's us.
This is the stuff of how nations decline.
Speaking of Italy, this is the kind of thing you would see in the fall of the ancient Roman Empire.
Well, now it's happening in our own homeland.
Sometimes you go abroad and you see the way that you're viewed, it reminds you of how much our own nation has rotted at its core.
The time for change is now.
2024 is a 1776 moment.
I am proud to be an American, but it doesn't feel that way now when the rest of the world looks down upon the kangaroo courts that send our own political leaders to prison.
Enough of it.
I don't care if you're on the left or right, this is a danger to the future of our country.
And I'm asking you to step up this year so we can actually get this right.
We have a country to save, and if we don't get this right in the next seven months, I think it's quite possible we don't have a country left.
And that, my friends, is the day that Vivek Ramaswamy became Vice President.
What a statement.
This, like, third world stuff, and of course having to bring up ancient Rome.
It's such a classic.
They're so obsessed with ancient Rome.
I love it.
It's the best.
They really are.
Whatever their current issue is, is why Rome fell, like that day that it fell.
Remember how it fell on Rome fall day?
And it was because of an indictment against Caesar for falsifying business records when Caesar was having sex with a porn star.
It's the same textbook.
I can't believe we didn't see that before.
Just history, man.
Yeah.
Isn't that wildly coincidental?
I also wanted to make the point about Banana Republics very quickly.
Guatemala is one of the original Banana Republics, and they have successfully prosecuted a president for bribery, one of their classic corruption things.
And I'm sure if you go down the list, I mean, there's any number of other countries that we think we're better than.
And by the way, Guatemala is one of the coolest countries on earth and some of my favorite people.
You know, I'm sure you can find other examples of, like, legitimate prosecutions of former presidents.
I think that's actually a sign of a functioning, healthy democracy.
And it's also weird and racist to keep using this banana republic thing.
Yeah.
No, it really, really is.
And I see it everywhere.
Like, I see everyone using this.
This third world conversation, too.
That's something that Tucker Carlson tweeted about.
He said, import the third world, become the third world.
That's what we just saw.
This won't stop Trump.
He'll win the election if he's not killed first.
But it does mark the end of the fairest justice system in the world.
Anyone who defends this verdict is a danger to you and your family.
This language that's being used, it is driving, I think, a concern that I have.
Like, obviously, this is hilarious, but it's also providing this opportunity for potential for violence, and that is pretty concerning to me.
Just the reaction.
There have been some really horrific things on right-wing websites that are Hopefully being investigated by the FBI, like people calling to kill every Democrat, to go out and shoot any liberal you see, like it's getting really kind of scary in some of those places.
And granted, I mean, a lot of those people could be saying that from their mom's basement kind of thing, right?
But there is no way to know.
How many people truly would act on something like that?
And so the rhetoric that we're seeing from the right wing is fueling that rage.
And people like Matt Walsh that just have this like, like visual opportunity, I guess, for him, where he says, I don't want to hear elected Republicans complaining.
I don't need to see their tweets and statements condemning the verdict.
The only thing I want to hear from these people is which Democrats they will have arrested.
Don't tell us that you're sad about the verdict.
We don't give a shit about your feelings.
We want to see corrupt Democrats frog-marched on camera in handcuffs.
If you won't do that, then shut up.
That's crazy.
Yeah, you don't dial that back once you start talking like that.
Yeah, that's the thing.
That's my concern with this.
It's a ratchet.
It just gets going more and more.
I don't know.
Matt, do you know any history?
Because I don't.
I don't know any history at all.
How does any of this ever end well?
I saw something the other day that really drove me nuts, which was like, The only thing that will stop Trump will be if he is defeated in the election.
And it's like, oh yeah, cause that totally worked in 2020.
He was gone after that.
Like it was over.
So I don't, that's not it.
That's a minimum.
Don't get me wrong.
Like that's a minimum.
Like I genuinely wonder if it's just that he has to die.
Like, is that the only thing?
Like if you, and I don't, I'm not even talking about intentionally, like, is it just like he gets old enough that he's no longer, he's either passes away or no longer the demagogue that he was.
And so then.
People run out of steam.
Like I just truly don't get it.
How does this end?
He's a virus.
That's the problem.
He's already inspired quite a lot of people, including Vivek Ramaswamy himself to act like this.
And we've got leaders around the world doing that too.
Nobody else is good at it.
That's the one thing that gives me comfort is when he disappears, it's going to take a minute to regroup.
Nobody, nobody else on the right, they've shown it.
Nobody likes what's his name in Florida.
He's gone.
Disbanded.
Yeah.
I mean, maybe it'll be different if Trump is actually gone and they need an alternative, but I actually, the margins are so close on these elections already.
I don't think any of these discount fascists have a chance thus far.
I don't know.
Maybe someone will surprise us.
Maybe Barron, you know.
My concern has always been there's going to be some young, good looking Christian guy with a nice family who's going to rise up and start talking like this, but like in a slightly more acceptable way that like your mom doesn't mind as much.
I feel like the model's been set, but when you're asking where this goes, I think about Hungary.
Have you followed what's going on in Hungarian society in the last few years?
Definitely, but for the audience, just to remind them.
Oh yeah, of course.
Well, because we just mentioned Viktor Orban.
I was just thinking about it, you know, because Orban got a lot of play on the Soros thing, and Soros is actually from Hungary, which makes a little more sense.
It's still ridiculous.
And actually, Viktor Orban went to school, I think, in part, on a Soros-funded scholarship.
Hungary has become, you know, I know that we talk about the U.S.
being this way, but it's become like an absolutely divided country where you have two groups of people who just do not talk to each other or know what the other group is thinking or doing.
And we're on our way, but just from what I've read about it, it seems like it's, you know, it's way ahead.
I don't know.
I want to keep it later, I guess, today, but we are talking about No, we're all fucked.
It's cool.
I have some light things to take us out though.
Don't worry.
We're going to lift the mood a little bit.
I wanted to actually address something that was brought up on Gavel Gavel because Liz had mentioned, Liz Skeen, that there were penis balloons And right when I listened to that, I was like, I know who did this because of the work that we do on Where There's Woke.
This is our favorite performance artist out of New York City, Scott Libato.
He's the artist that paints flags all the time and paints Trump with big muscles.
So he is one of the people who threw pizza at City Hall when they were protesting gas ovens being outlawed, but not really, in New York.
I want to listen to that episode again.
It's so funny.
I had to include his reaction to the verdict here, so we'll hear from Scott Libato now.
He's in his car.
You know, it's so rude of us to interrupt these people's day and make them make a video.
I'm not up shit.
Painting?
I'm actually happy.
This just proves the point of what we have to do.
More penis balloons.
As I said earlier, the respect for the legal system has disappeared.
The only decision that matters is November 5th.
There's just shit written on his hand.
That's it.
Painting?
I don't know. - Oh, it's a bunch of stuff written on his hand.
Oh, yeah, no, I do.
His writing notes.
He needs to understand that all of us, on both sides, are in the most historical moment in the history, that's right, in the history of this country, besides our revolution in the beginning.
This is it.
And those of you on the left, who I know, We know that you are... This is fucking bad.
Huh?
You're gonna wake up.
This is low effort, Scott.
His polls are gonna go up.
And even if they don't go up, again, we're going against the machine.
The media.
Social media.
The George Soros's.
The Rockefellers.
The Rockefellers?
That put this position together.
I worship this moment.
What the fuck do you think I was doing for 30 fucking years?
Could have done a million other things!
No, I made penis balloons.
And you fuckers better really get the fuck fired up.
Because the only fucking decision that matters Not the media on both sides, nothing!
Except you!
You!
Your fucking heart!
That's all that matters!
We're gonna be okay.
But it's not up to the fucking judicial system.
It is not up to the feds.
It is not up to the government.
It is up...
To we, the fucking people!
Get it through your fucking head!
This is the shining moment.
You're a great ass!
Shine, motherfuckers!
Shine!
Shine, motherfuckers!
I had to have that New York accent.
I love his accent.
Yeah, it turns fuckers into fockus.
I thought it was like, what's a fockus?
Is that a something?
Hey, you fockus!
He's all in for Trump still, of course.
He actually very quickly organized a rally last Sunday, June 2nd.
So he put together a rally.
Rudy Giuliani, of course, stopped by.
Hundreds of people, apparently.
I've been trying to confirm the numbers.
I've seen some pictures.
There definitely are people there, but not sure exactly how many showed up.
To close it out, I wanted to bring on your favorite person, hun, and their reaction to Trump.
We're going to go see Glenn Beck.
Oh yeah, I love Glenn Beck.
He's such a... He also has a great voice.
Can't help it.
Is he gonna cry?
Will he cry?
Well, we'll see.
Oh, he's already crying.
He's gonna cry, isn't he?
He's gonna cry.
It's business records.
He's going to cry.
People who cross the Rockies.
He's going to cry.
Tamed the West.
Changed the world.
It's business records.
It's just fucking business records.
You guys are out of your fucking minds.
I didn't realize how much until I studied history.
Real history, not the crap they teach you in school.
Real history.
I never really understood how stained our name is from those in power, those who only serve through corruption and greed and sometimes out and out evil.
But I have truly always believed, and I I still do today that the American truly believes in honor and integrity.
The most fucking dramatic.
Yeah.
It's your next monologue.
Truth and justice.
We'll work on this for an audition.
That that is the American way.
I will tell you this.
Yesterday.
Oh, he's got the tissue.
Yeah, he's crying.
I feel like he couldn't quite get the tears going, and so he used that as a prop.
No, he took his glasses off.
Oh, he did, okay.
He took his glasses.
Oh, he did.
Okay.
For those people.
But it did not change it for me.
I still respect false fight business records.
I will not surrender to those words.
I will not surrender to the belief that puts me and other Americans into action.
Yesterday was a defeat, but we are not done.
Alright, you can sit there.
I'm done.
I'm so pumped.
It's incredible.
Hold on, I'm so pumped.
That was incredible, right?
It was like the most moving soliloquy I've ever heard in my life.
Yeah, it's over business records.
He's probably not going to go to jail at all.
Like, freaking so stupid.
And there were so many times during this process I thought I was looking at parody accounts.
I had to confirm, like, Tucker's tweet, Matt Walsh's tweet.
Like, these people are being serious.
It's crazy.
I mean, if you told me he gave that monologue after 9-11, I'd believe you.
Yeah.
In the smoldering ruins of 9-11, then maybe it's appropriate.
But the thing about Glenn Beck is the boy who cried wolf, he does this every week.
He has something, some bullshit where he's like crying over it and the patriotism and the whatever.
You can't do that that many times, man.
Like it doesn't work.
So in sum, the rhetoric to be on the lookout for, folks, and we experienced, I think, pretty much all of these pieces, pretty much.
They are going to attack the judge.
They're going to talk about that the jury was liberal.
They're going to allude to election interference, Biden's involvement.
It'll get overturned.
Invoking George Soros, America is a banana republic.
This is actually good for Trump is another piece of the rhetoric that's been kind of making the rounds and a fundraising bonanza, which honestly is true.
The campaign reports that they raised 53 million dollars in the 24 hours post verdict.
So people are rallying.
They are fired up in a lot of ways for Trump's support.
And so we just need to make sure that we are more fired up on our side and not let him get back in office, because you want to talk a banana republic?
That's, I'm concerned.
That is what would actually happen.
Yeah, exactly.
I actually just, and I checked just to follow up, 78 countries since the year 2000 have prosecuted former heads of state, including all of Central America.
Wow.
And again, I think from what I know about Central American history, those are all rightful.
So if you're saying that we are resembling places in the world that actually follow through on prosecuting former leaders, then yeah, I guess so.
Yeah.
If you commit a crime, there you go.
That's how it goes.
All right.
Well, that was fun, hon.
Totally everyone having a normal one.
And I can't wait to look back on all this from the gulag with you guys.
I'll share some other little things we didn't get to on Facebook, maybe.
My upside-down flags at half-mast.
I'm saluting and crying.
Thanks so much, Matt, for taking the time.
I really appreciate it.
Yes, thank you!
Anytime.
Always fun.
Smiths, good to be with you.
Go find more of Matt on the hit podcast, Opening Arguments, everybody.
It's a good one.
It's a good listen.
Yep.
See you over there.
And gavel gavel.
All right, Matt.
Thanks so much.
Okay.
Thank you.
The way that both of my fists were quenched waiting for it.
