Coming to you live from Isla Vista, Santa Barbara County, California, every Tuesday and Thursday at 7 p.m. Pacific.
I am your host, Brian Atlas, the most publicly rejected man in the history of the world.
So in a sense, I'm a dating expert, clearly.
I'm joined by my co-host, Kiki.
She's a bit shy.
A few quick announcements before the show begins.
This channel is viewer supported, you know, YouTube demonetization, all that.
So please consider supporting us.
Send a super chat.
I will read answer all super chats intermittently.
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We've got channel memberships, Patreon merch, all links in the description.
For the sake of debate, I may play Devil's Advocate and take on a position I may not necessarily agree with.
Without further ado, we're going to have the guests introduce themselves.
So please tell us your name, age, occupation, and relationship status.
I'm going to start over here.
Hi, my name is Samantha.
I'm 22.
I work in media management, but I'm also releasing music soon.
And I just published a book, so I do a lot of things.
And I am single.
Hello, my name is Anna.
I am 26, and I'm a sacred sexuality rewilding and embodiment guide.
I do one-on-one coaching and group containers, and I'm also a poet and musician.
And I am single.
Okay, my name is Reina.
I'm 21.
I'm currently a student at UCSB, and I'm single.
Hi, I'm Julia.
I'm 20 years old, and I'm a hostess at a restaurant, and I'm newly in a relationship.
Newly in a relationship?
Newly in a relationship.
How new?
How new?
About a month.
Okay.
Yeah.
Congrats.
Thanks.
Good times.
I deserve it.
You deserve it.
I deserve it.
So when you say you deserve it, you've just been through some.
Oh, I've been through it all.
You've been through it all.
Okay.
I guess you could say that.
My last relationship was a disaster, to say the least.
Give us like a plot synopsis of your disastrous last relationship.
You know, your typical narcissist mama's boy, mama's boy is always the worst.
That's how they get you.
You kind of think that's a good thing.
Like, oh, they have a cute little relationship with their mom.
But no, it's bad.
She knows what I'm talking about.
She's nodding her head.
Yeah, he ended up crashing my brand new car.
Never paid me back, among other things, but that was probably the main one.
He crashed your car.
He crashed my car.
Was it a nice car?
It was a nice car.
What kind of car was it?
It was a Mercedes-Benz.
Rip?
Wow.
R.I.P. In the chat.
Yeah, can we get a L?
Can we get an L. Maybe an E in the chat for Julia and her Mercedes-Benz S-Class or?
Huh?
S-Class?
I don't know, man.
You don't.
It's a GLB.
Okay.
So you three are single.
Yeah.
What does that mean?
What does being single mean?
That's a great.
Let's start with you.
So what does that mean for you?
I'm not dating anyone.
Are you talking to somebody?
Possibly.
Possibly.
Yeah.
It's complicated.
Kinda.
Like, there are people that I talk to.
I don't know if we're talking.
When you say talk, are we talking like hooking up?
No.
What are we talking about?
Literally just talking.
Okay.
Like, getting to know someone.
Getting to, okay.
But I wouldn't classify that as dating, like getting to know someone's not dating, unless you get taken on a date.
That's when I think it's dating.
But I feel like a lot of people don't go on proper dates.
It's like come over.
Yeah, that's the point.
Let's hang out.
Netflix and chill.
So it's kind of a blurred line when it comes to what constitutes a date, you know?
Yeah.
So what does being single mean to you?
So for me, being single, it's definitely different than being celibate because I was celibate for 10 months where I was only channeling my sexual energy into myself, my self-pleasure practices, my business, my art.
But being single means that I'm like open to seeing people and I'm into sharing my sexual energy with people when it's aligned.
And yeah, like I could be dating or talking to no one or I could be dating and talking to multiple people at the same time.
But single is like, it means that I'm not actively in a committed relationship with someone.
But you could be sleeping with somebody.
I could be sleeping with someone and still single or multiple people at the same time.
Are you currently?
I am not, actually.
Well, I'm coming.
I'm complicated.
I have recently, but I'm not at the moment.
I see.
Clearfield.
Okay.
All right.
Yeah, I guess I would classify being single as like, I'm not committing myself to anyone and I'm also not expecting someone else to be committed to me, if that makes sense.
But at the same time, like, yeah, I could be talking to four other people just because I'm getting to know them.
But same thing, like, if you're not taking me out on a date, picking me up, paying for my dinner or things like that.
You're not dating, you're talking about me.
Then you're not, exactly.
You're not taking me seriously.
And then too, like, if I don't have feelings with someone, I mean, obviously, like, I don't know.
Like, when I really start to have feelings for someone, that's when I kind of start to shut off everything else and other people.
So.
Interesting.
That's what being single is to me.
And so you said that you could be seeing somebody, but it's not, it doesn't reach the threshold of dating unless it sort of meets the traditional metrics of that.
So I think you said picking you up, paying for your dates, et cetera, et cetera.
I don't know, though, because I've accepted a lot.
I've accepted a lot of comeovers and things like that.
And it's also led to dating.
So I wouldn't say it just has to be the traditional pick me up, but they need to be putting in substantial effort and they also need to not be seeing anyone else.
They have to not be seeing anyone else for what?
To be seeing you?
Yes.
To be in a relationship.
Or yeah, for me to consider them as anything towards serious.
Like, they need to not be talking to anyone else.
And what about you?
Can you be talking to anybody else?
I'm sure they wouldn't like that, but no, no, no.
No, I shouldn't be talking to someone else.
Shouldn't?
No.
But do you?
No.
Okay.
If I really like someone, I am not talking to anyone else.
You're just focused on them.
I'm just focused on them.
Even if they haven't yet either directly or into the world.
Okay, that's a hard one because I've been in a situation where I really liked the person and they were not interested in me at all and I was still pursuing them.
But at the same time, I was so hurt about having to pursue them that I was also talking to other people at the same time.
So yeah.
It's complicated.
It's complicated.
It is complicated.
It is very complicated.
Especially when we include polyamory in the mix and dating multiple people is then okay.
Right?
So you have some experience with polyamorous relationships.
Yes, I do.
What is the most concurrent amount of partners that you've had in a given time?
Four.
Yeah.
All men, or was it a mix of men and women and pansexual, so full spectrum of people, genders, sexuality is what I'm into.
And so, are you sharing?
Like, are they kind of dating too?
Or is it a good question?
Sometimes, yes, and sometimes no.
But for me, and it hasn't always been this way in the people I've been relating with, but for me, if I'm dating someone and they're dating other people, I want to know the other people at the very least.
Like, we don't have to all be dating, but I want to know who they are.
I want to include them in just the love, even if it's not sexual.
But I've dated someone recently who was dating five other women while we were dating a man, and none of them wanted to know me until the very end.
One of them did, and we met.
But that was just like I could feel their energy.
Like, it's like I could feel them when I would be with him, and that was a boundary for me because I would want to know who they are to, if we're sharing intimate space with the same man.
What?
Wait, I'm sorry, I pressed the wrong button.
I pressed the wrong one.
Wait, so I meant to do word.
Right.
Okay.
I swear that was the wrong one.
So, no, I'm curious about the whole polyamory thing.
So, and you said that even if you weren't with one of the other people that one of your partners was seeing, you would want to know who they are.
So, for you with polyamory, was it a situation where you like they would introduce you wanted to know who they were sleeping with?
Exactly.
Okay.
So, it wasn't like a don't ask, don't tell policy.
Not for me.
And I, so I've been in various iterations of polyamorous relating, and I've been with partners who wanted it to be like that.
Like, don't ask, don't tell, just you do your thing, I'll do mine.
But I'm the opposite because then I have all of the attachment wounding coming up.
And for me, I want to be able to share with my partner exactly what I can share with my friends.
And so, if I can't tell them, like, I'm into someone and this is my experience, then I feel more distant from them.
But when I hear about who they're into, I can experience compersion, which is that feeling of like being turned on by your partner's turn on because of your love for them.
And then it's like, it just builds the intimacy in my experience.
Cool.
That's really interesting.
We should definitely go into the whole polyamory thing a bit more later on in the show.
So, I guess that'll bring us to our first sort of topic question of the show.
Does dating suck?
And if so, why?
Why don't we start over here?
Well, I feel like that's a very broad question.
It is broad.
Dating the wrong person sucks.
Dating the right person at the right time doesn't suck.
And I guess to be more specific, when you're single, so the process of dating, you know, like going out, meeting new people, maybe you're on the dating apps.
I want to say, does dating suck prior to entering into a relationship?
Does dating suck prior into entering a relationship?
Right, so I'm not, I'm not, the question isn't so much focused on, I mean, certainly once you're in a relationship, I mean, there's bad relationships, but I mean, it's more so like dating when you're single, does it suck?
Does dating suck?
Hmm, interesting question.
Oh my gosh.
Okay, I will.
Well, okay.
I think in between my two relationships, I had like a year where I was single, and that was, it was fun.
It was pretty fun.
But, you know, you have to be in a certain headspace for that.
You have to be, you know, I don't know, man.
I think when I was single, I would look at people that were dating and I'd be like, oh, that kind of sucks.
Like, you're kind of tied down in a way.
And you can't really have fun.
You can't just like flirt around.
But now that I'm in a relationship, you know, it's nice to have a person to have consistently in that sense.
So it's kind of just like where you're at mentally in that way, you know?
I don't know if that answered your question.
No, yeah, I feel like that too.
Like your headspace makes, or it like is a big deal in this.
And I feel like I could see both sides.
Like it can suck if you're like consistently trying to meet these guys and they're all talking to a bunch of other girls.
Like you don't know if they're talking to another girl unless you have that conversation.
But for me personally, I think dating doesn't suck because like as a girl, you kind of like, not like you get stuff, but you're taken out on dates.
You're like, you know, like it's kind of fun.
And then you're also not committing to one person.
Like you're just exploring your options.
but yeah and so you mentioned that your experience dating doesn't suck because because you mentioned it's kind of nice You get some gifts, you get some things over here, or you get taken out for dinner, for example.
Yeah.
And you also said that you see a bunch of people.
I don't want to misquote you.
No, like, I'm saying I'm not committing to one person either.
So, like, I'm getting to know a bunch of people at the same time.
I might have better connection with some than others.
But, like, that's why I could see how dating sucks.
But, like, I feel like if you know how to go about it, it doesn't suck.
And it's just nice meeting new people.
If it doesn't work out, too, like, you've met another person who shared their story with you, you know?
But yeah.
Do you think that on both sides, when people are dating multiple people, that that can sometimes prevent what would otherwise have been a relationship from proceeding?
Prevent it from happening.
prevent yeah because if you're just dating a whole bunch of people like I think there has to be communication about like if you guys are exclusive or not and then because like in the beginning when you first meet people you're they're probably on like dating apps They're probably talking to other girls.
the likelihood that you're the only person they're talking to is very low, and I just feel like...
Does that bother you at all?
I feel like it doesn't bother me because in today's day and age, that's what everyone's doing.
And I'm kind of doing the same thing, right?
I'm meeting a bunch of other guys and I'm not specifically narrowing it down to anyone.
Yeah.
Okay.
Does dating suck?
Does dating suck?
This is a funny question.
At times, yes.
And I'm trying to expand my frame of mind and heart to really feel like, no, it doesn't suck.
But as a conscious woman on a spiritual path, deep in the sacred sexuality work, where I want to be met in dating, in relationship, is very specific, very, very nuanced.
And I feel like the pool of people who can meet me there is very small.
And so I have this, in a sense, scarcity mindset around who is willing to get fully down in the wildness and the earth with me and like really be in that space of committing to the awakening of our planet and like on the same path.
And it's hard for me to share my erotic energy with anyone who isn't in deep alignment with that path.
So I have had this negative thing around dating, especially in LA of like it does suck and I'm not into it.
I just want everything to like align perfectly.
And I'm slowly opening my energy to just be, you know, to be, to trust that people can surprise you and there can be magic even in the most unlikely connections.
You said getting down to earth.
What was it you said something about earth?
Earth, yes, I think it's the earth energy.
The earth energy.
What does that mean?
Earth, okay, so Hachamama, the earth.
Like, we come from the earth, right?
And so it, I feel like, being in, especially living in LA and the heart of like the media capital of the world, Hollywood, all of this, the city, there can be this energy that's that's like very ungrounded and not like connected to the elements, connected to the fresh water, connected to the fire and the earth.
And so I only want to share my Eros, Eros being erotic energy.
Wait, Eros?
Eros.
Yeah, Eros.
Is that like a Greek?
Yeah, Greek god Eros.
And so the term Eros.
Who's Dionysus involved?
Is that a Greek?
Is he Greek?
I don't know.
Yes, I've heard this one.
My mythology doesn't go very far.
Okay, Eros being our sexual life force energy, like that feeling of turn on.
So I only want to share my Eros with someone who can actually meet me in that space of spirituality and earth wisdom.
Yeah.
Not everyone in LA can.
Well, I mean, I agree with that.
LA.
I mean, you're Sammy, right?
Yeah.
You're from LA too, right?
No, I'm originally from a small town.
I moved to LA last year.
But you've been in LA for a year.
I've been in LA for a year.
Yeah.
You're from a small town?
Yeah.
What small town?
New Smyrna Beach, Florida.
That's not, that's, isn't that just outside of 20 minutes?
No, it's like 20 minutes from Daytona, an hour from Orlando, and three hours from Miami.
But you've been in LA for a year.
And you're corrupted.
Yes, right?
Yes, and already.
Fully corrupted.
I'm fully corrupted.
I'm completely submersed.
But so I do agree, though, that LA, it's a different world.
Superficial.
Very superficial.
Yeah, shadowy.
But no, I definitely agree with what you said.
It really has a lot to do with your headspace because I've been in times where I've been single and I feel so bad about myself only because I had probably just gotten out of a relationship at that point and I'm missing someone or I do miss that consistency.
But once I start feeling better, then it does become fun because it is fun to meet new people and get out there.
And even if it goes really bad, like I've been in so many bad dates, it's still something to laugh about and it's an experience and it's like a new contact.
Like you never know who you're going to meet.
That's what I always say in LA.
Like you never know.
So it definitely is fun when you're in the right headspace.
So, but did you answer the question?
Does dating suck?
No, dating doesn't suck.
No.
No.
So you, okay, overall, it seems like panel.
We like dating.
You kind of just gotta like play the game.
Yes.
You know that they're like playing a game, so you gotta play it back.
Like you gotta be smarter than them.
Smarter than three steps ahead.
Three steps ahead of them.
Three steps ahead.
Not like you act clueless, but like kind of.
What's that?
Wait, wait, wait, repeat it, repeat it.
I said not that you act clueless, but like kind of to like not give them a sense of that they're in the like that they have power over you, you know?
Like you're the ball's in your court.
You don't have to do anything you don't want to do either.
Like on dates, like if a guy asks like, can I kiss you?
I'm like, no.
Yeah.
And like he won't kiss me.
It's just that he respects your boundary.
Yeah, he respects their boundary, which is nice.
Yeah.
And I'd rather them like accept that boundary and like be still like be interested in me.
Yeah.
Like not just wanting me to like for physical.
Yeah.
Whoa.
So is it a game then or is it just like?
Not like a game, but just kind of like, I know that they're talking to a bunch of guys, so why would I close myself off to just that one guy?
Right?
I don't know.
Do you guys agree?
Yeah, like why would I take someone seriously when clearly they're not going to be not taking me seriously at all?
Especially because we're all like in our early 20s.
Like this is the time to like explore and find yourself too.
Exactly.
When you say explore and find yourself, does that mean just like get run through by a bunch of dudes?
No!
Wait!
We're no.
I'm just street!
Like, I'm translating it.
Literally finding who you are.
Like, you don't know.
Like, people have like childhood traumas and beliefs that they had that they grew up with and don't know anything.
else.
But now that you're like in college, I love being at UCSB because I've been able to figure out what I truly like and I've put myself out there in different ways and just see what works best for me, you know?
By the way, did you guys say what your majors were?
Major.
I'm a comm major.
I'm a stats and data science major.
Okay.
Next question for you guys.
So there's been bad dates, there's been good dates.
What would you say is the best, most, I shouldn't say maybe not best, but what is the furthest a guy has gone in terms of a date?
Has a guy ever offered.
Well, let me start with this.
Has a guy ever offered to fly you out somewhere?
Let's start with Samantha here.
Oh my gosh.
Okay.
I've had a guy offer to fly me out somewhere.
And then when it came time to like buy the flight, like we're on the phone with each other, right?
We're on FaceTime.
And he's like, okay, so did you get the flight?
And I'm sitting here like, I thought you were supposed to be flying me out on the flight.
Like that's what I'm thinking in my head.
Guys, I was so stupid, I bought the flight.
But I've had other experiences where a guy has flown me somewhere with him, like to go together on a date.
So I've had that, but I guess I've never had the experience of a guy literally flying me out to his city.
No.
Dubai?
No.
You look disappointed.
Wait, but so you said you have gone on dates where the guy has flown you somewhere?
Yes.
And was that, would you say, earlier on?
That was earlier on.
Early on.
He flew us to Vegas.
Me and him, like, never ended up actually dating, but it was really fun.
He flew me to Vegas.
The entire trip was paid for.
I mean, that was a pretty extravagant date.
And let me just say this.
I actually didn't end up dating that guy.
Like, I didn't end up liking him.
That did not make me like him.
So just putting that out there.
What date number was that?
The Vegas trip?
Number two?
Number one.
Maybe like number four.
Number four.
Okay.
Yeah.
And was that the only flown out situation?
Yeah, that was the only flown out situation.
The only one.
Yeah.
There isn't another?
No.
Okay, fair enough.
No more.
What about you?
Ever flown out?
No one has ever flown me anywhere.
Have you ever had an offer from a guy?
Hey.
No.
I'm in Miami.
Come, come fly me out.
No, I've had an offer from a friend who's in Miami who was like, come see me, friend lover.
And I had someone I was in a committed partnership with buy me a ticket.
Okay.
But I do have a story of really, like, how far a guy has gone.
Okay, let's hear it.
Not a flight, but on our first date, he bought roses and also bought a bunch of rose things, like rose soap.
He bought rose tea, he bought rose laundry detergent, he bought rose perfume because he knows that I love roses.
And so I like go into his room and the whole bed is covered with roses.
There's a rose candle lit, all this rose stuff.
It felt like I was getting married.
I was like roses everywhere.
And then we had an amazing night together and then he made me breakfast in bed the next day and like fed me berries and no one has ever done that.
And so I proceed to think like, oh, I'm falling in love with him.
But this is the guy that's dating five other women.
And it's like, no, I just like want to worship the divine feminine in every woman, which I get.
And we're great friends now, but I was shocked.
I was like, no one I've dated for years has ever bought me like all this rose stuff and like made the bed so nice.
And yeah, it was really sweet and confusing at the same time.
What date number was that?
One.
Number one.
Yeah, well, we had, how did you meet?
We had been friends for the past like year and a half.
And then we had acknowledged that, like, oh, there's a charge and we want to explore this.
And then it was, it was like the first time we did.
And you said there was rose petals?
Everywhere.
Rose, full of roses, rose tea, rose laundry.
It was just rose extravaganza.
And did you appreciate that?
Or were you like, yo, this is extra?
This is kind of weird.
Honestly, I loved it because I was just in a space of like, worship me as the goddess I am.
Like pamper me.
I love gift giving in one of my big love languages.
So I'm like, give me gifts.
But it did get confusing when I was like, I wanted to be in a relationship with him.
And he was like, what?
Like, I'm just like doing, like, what?
No.
Like, did I send mixed messages?
I was like, yes, you did.
The roses, the breakfast in bed, mixed messages.
Let's just go around the panel really quick.
If a guy, like, first date, did a bunch of all this extra shit, roses, chocolates.
What was some of the other stuff?
Tea.
Like, rose.
It was all the same and everything.
Laundry detergent.
Laundry.
That's a little silly.
Laundry detergent.
Tea and soap.
Honestly, that's actually a good idea.
I'm going to start doing that.
Bringing laundry detergent to my first day.
Here, you're dirty.
Yeah, I don't know if I take that.
Oh, I don't know if that'd be like a good idea.
Did you try to tell me something?
But so, Samantha.
Yeah.
If someone did that for you.
Would that be a bit extra?
I would be so surprised.
That is, I mean, okay, aside from the laundry detergent, that's so thoughtful for someone to just go and plan all of this stuff because they know that they're going to see me.
I mean, I honestly wouldn't even know what to think.
And it would depend on the person too, like who's doing that.
Yeah.
It would really depend on who it was.
Okay.
Wait, what was the question?
If a guy, like first date and a guy's doing all this extra shit, let's say he gets you, let's say he gets you flowers, chocolate, all that stuff.
Do I know him before?
Let's just say no.
That's a good question.
Like it's like the first time meeting in front of me.
First date.
First date, but maybe you guys met, say, on a dating app or he approached you.
I don't know.
I don't know.
I guess it wouldn't, I wouldn't like be mean about it.
It wouldn't be weird, but yeah, like I'd be thankful that he thought, put that much thought into it.
You wouldn't feel like any sort of type of way.
If it was like rose tetles on the bed, I would think a type of way for the first date.
But like flowers and chocolates, that's kind of cute.
Okay.
Immediately no.
If a guy got you flowers and all that.
Flowers?
Yeah, flowers are great.
But I think, like, you know, for you, that's great because you've known this person.
But if I met this person on a dating app and he bought me detergent and soap, you are a freak and not the good kind.
You know?
So yeah, I would give you the ick.
I would the detergent would.
The detergent.
I'd be like, what if he worked?
Hold on.
What if he worked at the soap company?
And he was just like, look, I got a little extra soap.
I'd give you some.
Then it's kind of like.
On the first date, though?
First date.
There isn't too much.
He gives you like a Costco wholesale amount of detergent.
Like one of those big jugs.
I would leave immediately.
This did not happen.
What were the pods that people were eating?
Oh, the Tide Pods.
He brought you a bunch of Tide Pods.
No go for you.
It's like only like clean women.
Yeah, I feel like I just generally I have like a bias towards men in the sense that I am scared of them a little and I think there always have some sort of misogyny within them.
So I'm like, what message are you really trying?
What message are you really trying to portray here?
Like you want me to change something?
You want me to do something for you?
I don't know.
It's just kind of like an innate thing for me because the men that I have experienced relations with have been that way.
So I'm a little biased.
Wait, go into the misogyny thing.
Let's talk a bit about that.
What do you mean by that?
Well, I just feel like every man just has a little bit of misogyny in this.
Every man.
I think every man.
I think it's an inherited thing.
You know?
They're all, so all the men were just all misogynist.
You gotta have a little bit.
A little bit.
She's nodding her head.
Oh, yeah.
She might have a lot to say about this.
She has a lot to say about this.
Okay.
So what about, so does the same apply to women?
Do women have misogyny?
Miscendery.
In every woman, there's a little bit of misingry.
Is that, would you fairly would you agree with that?
Well, I believe it's people are going to misingery.
What is that?
Misingery is the opposite of misogyny.
Misogyny misery.
Basically, you're saying.
Misogyny is the hatred, contempt of discrimination.
I think it's that's about it.
Hatred, contempt for women.
Hatred and contempt for men is misingery.
I see.
Yes.
Well, I believe it's uneven playing fields.
I mean, women have been suppressed for centuries.
So, you know, I feel like we all are kind of conditioned societally to, you know, kind of have that bias towards men.
Like, we kind of grew up that way, I feel like.
If you guys can relate.
Yeah.
What do you mean, the bias towards men?
Just like, I feel like the term, like, oh, boys will be boys is so common when men are mean and or men are disrespectful.
It's just like, oh, he's just, yeah.
Or like growing up, if a boy was mean, they would say, oh, it's only because he likes you.
I've heard that same thing with women, though.
Oh, she's mean to you because she likes you.
I think that can go both ways.
But as far as the boys will be boys thing, I mean, I think that's more so like when boys are just roughhousing with each other.
I guess.
But so you're okay.
So you said that misandry is justified.
Hatred of men is justified because women throughout history have been oppressed.
Is that kind of your stance?
I don't want to speak for you.
I'm just trying to understand your reason.
No, yeah.
Well, I don't think it's as present as I believe misogyny is present in men.
And, you know, that could just be in so many different degrees.
Like, men can be like, oh, women can't do this.
Women can't.
Like, I've had guys say, oh, it's so weird.
You know, they're like, it's weird when a girl is chubby, but it's also weird when she goes to the gym too much.
Like, what do you want?
You know, like, women can't.
My ex actually was getting a tattoo one time.
And I was like, oh, do you want my opinion?
And he said, no, women don't know anything about tattoos.
Tattoos are for men.
So it's like kind of like that.
You know, they think women are stupid and useless.
And I don't think women have that same sentiment innately as men do.
You know what I mean?
You don't think they have the same sentiment towards men as women as men do to women.
Yeah.
I don't know about that one.
There's a lot of man-hating out there.
A lot of man hating out.
I know.
I can't speak for everyone, but.
What's that?
I know I said they do it to themselves.
Can I say that?
Actually, so I will.
Let me respond to her and then I'll have you come in.
So you said that men do it to themselves.
So actually, that's kind of true.
So they did a study on this and they found out that men actually have a slight out-group bias for women and women have an in-group bias for other women.
So yeah, men do, men are hating themselves, I guess.
Go ahead, you wanted to come in.
Yeah.
No, that's interesting what you brought up.
And yeah, on this piece of misogyny, I feel that we all have pieces of the patriarchy inside of us.
Hold on, what's the patriarchy?
The patriarchy.
You're right, that's a very general term.
But when I say the patriarchy, what I mean is this, it's beyond men.
It's this internalized system of oppression, of domination that extends far beyond gender, far beyond race.
It's this energy of hierarchy, this hierarchy within us.
And we all have internalized that based on the cultures that we're brought up in and the state of the world right now.
And so that can then be extended to different forms of power over others rather than power with and power from within and power where it's like the power of a circle.
It's this domination concept, this pyramid.
And so when I think of misogyny, I think of the hatred of women and men being on top of this pyramid or vice versa with women being on top of the pyramid.
And it has, yeah, the statement of they do it to themselves or it's this, yeah, the fear of men.
It's like it has flipped.
I get that, like the hatred towards men because of the hatred towards women for centuries.
And so there has been this flip that's happened.
And ultimately, I think that it's us getting to really allow that domination paradigm within us to fall.
And so we can see that every human, like there's a place we can all meet each other, but not without honoring all of the history of oppression of women.
And same goes for people of color.
And yeah, it's just like we get to honor that first.
And so when you said like, you're wary of men, I was like, yes, it's me too, like always, because I don't know what their intentions are.
I don't know like what, you know, how they are with other women or their sisters or their mothers.
It's this like wariness that I have more with men than with women.
And we could have it with any person.
So can you just, there was a lot there.
And if anybody else wants to jump in on this, so you use the word patriarchy, and I just want us to be precise in what we're saying.
So can you articulate what is the patriarchy?
What is the patriarchy?
Articulate it.
The patriarchy is a system of domination where specifically those in male bodies are at the top.
Wait, those in male, so men?
Yes, we could say that.
So males are at the top.
And there are others that are under them that have less power.
And the ones at the top, being those in male bodies, have more say in things.
We see more of their faces in politics.
And there's a sense of like they're doing like the right thing.
And those who are women don't have the same leverage as those who are men in positions of power.
Okay.
So it's you're basically, it's men as a group are working together to oppress women as a group, as a whole.
Is that what the patriarchy is?
And the earth.
And the earth.
Yes.
And so if you think of like, you know, fracking, for instance, that's that's a product of the patriarchy.
Fracking is a product of the patriarchy.
Absolutely.
Like extracting resources.
What else is a product of the patriarchy?
Plastic surgery.
Big product of the product of the patriarchy.
Yes, because feminine beauty standards that say like only a woman who looks like this is a woman that will be loved, that will receive love from a man, usually.
So we have this whole industry around plastic surgery that's going to like create, you know, and if anyone gets plastic surgery, like it's not, it's not saying like, don't do that or never do that, whatever.
But I'd say that's a product of the patriarchy.
I would say that razors are a product of the patriarchy.
Like it's so many things.
Razors?
Yes.
The concept of eating disorders, product of the patriarchy.
Wait, razors are, how, how did razors get involved in?
Shaving?
Shaving?
Shaving.
Yes.
Shaving is a product of the patriarchy?
Yes.
Actually, I have some, I have resources on this if we want to go back to the witch burning times.
The witch burnings?
Yes.
What happened then?
What happened then?
What happened with the witches?
Men and women.
So it's really never about just men or women.
It's like the masculine within all of us, right?
And so men and women both were shut down for being in attunement with nature, being in attunement with the elements, for knowing about herbal medicine, for birthing babies, midwives, etc.
And so in the book, Witches, Midwives, and Nurses, they talk about how those who would be called witches would, before they'd be burned at the stake or sunk into water, they would strip them of their power in many ways.
One of those ways being shaving their legs to strip them of the power of their hair, which often symbolizes the intuition.
Wow.
Okay.
There's a lot there.
There's a lot there.
We touched on a lot of things.
Okay.
So I'm still not totally sure what the patriarchy is.
Does anybody else want to jump in or take a crack at it?
I would say that a lot of things mentioned, and this is just my personal opinion, is more of a factor of capitalism than it is of like, oh, you want to look like this.
But at the same time, like, I've had plastic surgery.
So it's like, I had a nose job when, like, two years ago.
And honestly, I was with a guy and he dated me through the whole thing before and after.
So I don't know.
I don't know.
I think it's more of like a personal thing.
You mean the plastic surgery thing?
Yeah, yeah.
I think it's more of a personal thing.
But then on the other side of like this patriarchy, there is also this like femme fatale that's kind of emerged.
Like I also feel like I'm in control of some of the situations when I'm with a guy.
And there's also been times where I'm in the room with a guy and I know and he knows that there are some advantages that I have.
Maybe it's like whatever the social advantages are, like job, like whatever it is, like there's a clear air in the room that I have the advantage in that situation.
That man is trying to impress me.
And I don't know.
I think there's something to that.
There's something to that.
It's like, okay.
So you're saying in a social setting, you have some advantages over men when you're moving through a room.
Or maybe I feel that way.
Like it's almost like the image of like a girl walking and like guys are like fanning her down.
It's just like there are some, I don't know.
I feel like women do have a lot of advantages over men in the sense that they are so just like, I don't know, careless and just, I don't know.
It's such a weird concept, but I definitely feel like a guy, like some guys will just do anything.
Yeah.
Answer.
Wow.
Okay.
So we could probably definitely go down the rabbit hole of patriarchy and feminism and all that stuff.
I don't know how much we want to veer in that direction.
I mean, I don't know, this whole idea of a patriarchy, honestly, this is going to be a hot take.
It's basically just QAnon in deep state for feminists.
That's my take.
I mean, this idea of a patriarchy, it's also just the apex fallacy.
You're looking at the men at the very top, but like not considering men.
I mean, you can say that you mentioned like politicians and stuff.
Certainly, in certain positions of power and like CEO jobs and stuff, yes, there is a higher proportion of men, but there is a higher proportion of men that also occupy the absolute worst positions, the absolute worst jobs.
80% of the homeless are men.
The vast majority of people who commit suicide are men.
The most amount of people who are in prison are men.
Police brutality, police killings, impacts men most.
So I mean, I think both men and women have their advantages and disadvantages, their struggles.
So.
I fully agree.
And everything I shared isn't to say that that's not true.
It's the concept of the domination paradigm and masculine and feminine energy, like yin and yang, rather than just men and women.
Like everything I stand for is the opposite of like that polarization that feminism can get into.
It's like how do we ultimately come back together and understand that the patriarchy affects men just as much as women?
And capitalism and the patriarchy are like so intertwined.
And white supremacy, it's all like part of the same interlocking systems of oppression.
Word.
Yeah, I mean, I think that another hot, maybe another hot take, but I think that if you really look back throughout history, certainly there were ways in which women were disadvantaged in ways men weren't.
I think the big one we can all think about is the right to vote, right?
For a while there, women did not have the right to vote.
And I think women certainly should have the right to vote.
But I think what you also have to look at is the broader context of history.
And it actually wasn't, so for example, with the right to vote, it actually wasn't that long before women got the right to vote that just men, broadly speaking, they couldn't vote either.
At least, I mean, it breaks down different countries and stuff, but in the U.S., you had to be a property owner.
And then also, one of the things that's often overlooked in this discussion is the draft.
So would you guys agree that rights come with responsibilities or they should come with responsibilities?
So one of the reasons men had the right to vote is because they were subject to the draft.
And to this day, men are still subject to the draft.
And you can say, well, there's probably not going to be another draft.
But I mean, if you've seen what's going on in the world, things are not, I don't think things are looking great.
So it's certainly plausible within the next 10 or 20 years, there certainly could be a draft in the U.S.
And I mean, certainly in Ukraine, actually, they prevented men from leaving Ukraine.
If you were a man between 18 and 64, you had to stay, join the army, fight, and die here in 2022.
So I think bringing it back to women's voting, women's suffrage, there was, do any of you know what year it was?
1920, I believe, that it was ratified?
Was it 1920?
1931?
It was 1920.
1920.
So does anyone know what happened just before, like in that few years before 1920?
Big event.
Big event?
Dates.
No.
Okay, it was World War I, 1914 to 1918.
Well, yeah, but okay, so this is a bit, I'll wrap it all together.
But so those men were allowed to vote, but they also were subject to the draft.
And I think in total, I don't know what the U.S. count is for World War I. Probably a couple hundred thousand in World War I U.S. men died.
I think the total number, it was like 20, 30 million, maybe 20 million military casualties for World War I.
And probably 99.99% of those were men.
So as a man still today in 2022, for us to have the right to vote, we are subject to the draft.
We have to register for the selective service.
If we don't, it's actually felony in the U.S. as a man to not be registered with selective service.
So, I mean...
Can I chime in?
Yeah.
Yeah, yeah, go ahead.
Okay.
Well, I'm just saying, you're saying, you know, men are subject to the draft.
You know, it's a requirement.
If they're drafted, they didn't get the right to vote.
You know, it was only like property owners, whatever.
But who created that society?
It wasn't women.
Men created that society for themselves.
You know what I mean?
Well, I would, it's not, it was men, but just because it was men, I don't think their gender is necessarily related to the decisions that they made.
In the same way that the Supreme Court that gave you, well, it's no longer the case, but that gave us Roe v. Wade, my understanding is it was nine men who gave us the ruling in Roe v. Wade.
What does, what does that mean?
Like the men gave the women permission to choose about our own body.
Well, and it was also, broadly speaking, I think at the time in the years leading up to 1920, it was mostly men who were in the government.
And so if there was a patriarchy, I would challenge you and say that if the patriarchy is men in this cabal, this conspiracy to oppress women, then how could, why would they have enabled women or given women the right to vote?
I do not think the patriarchy is like men trying to suppress women.
It's not that like gender-based.
It's this energy that serves no one.
Like this concept of the patriarchy, this arbitrary word, it doesn't matter.
It's a gender of us.
It's a gender.
It is a gendered term.
It is a gendered term.
Patriarchy, yes.
Father.
Yes.
And so maybe there's another word that we get to use.
And you mentioned capitalism and it's all part of it.
I think that was Samantha.
Yeah, yeah.
She's a raging communist.
She's a raging communist.
Oh, you missed her laugh, Eric.
You missed the laugh, Eric.
No, no.
Right, no?
No?
But also, just really quickly on this note of war, like, one, it's, yeah, totally here that the rights come with responsibility and this concept of like men being at war.
But while men are at war, women are often home birthing babies.
And like that's not something that's, that's talked about the depth and challenge of that and how that's vital to continue our species, right?
And so I think no one should be at war.
Ultimately, like, let's end all wars on the planet because that is not serving anyone.
It's not serving the earth.
It's not serving our bodies, men, women, children, anyone.
And to just acknowledge that, like, though men are fighting, women are at home caring for children, birthing babies, surrendering to the cycles of their womb, and it's also at work.
Well, I don't think anyone would disagree with you that war is bad.
We should end war, but I do think it's ultimately the various conflicts that arise are very nuanced and very complicated.
Some of them are geographical.
You know, there's geographical disputes.
There's disputes about resources.
So it's probably honest.
I certainly agree with you.
I think it'd be certainly wonderful if there was no war, and we could certainly divert a lot of our resources and spending into other things like researching and science and technology instead of spending billions of dollars on a ship or something.
But it is kind of wishful thinking because, I mean, there are genuine threats that, I mean, whichever country you're part of, there's genuine threats from other countries.
And the only way to hold them back is to have a military.
But I agree.
Hey, wouldn't it be great if there was no war, you know?
But yeah.
Why don't we bring it back to dating a little bit?
Yeah, we're going down the rabbit hole here.
We're going down the rabbit hole.
Actually, we'll do some super chats, some comments really quick.
And then we will bring it back to dating.
So let's see.
I've got, let's see.
Stiffler asks the ladies to rank themselves on a scale of one to ten.
I guess he wants you guys to rate yourselves.
I guess that's a physical appearance.
You guys want to just real quick give your self-assessment, Samantha?
I think I'm going to go with a solid seven and a half because not just on looks, but like everything as a whole.
Like if you're date, if you're dating me, I don't know.
No, no, no.
I guess I would give myself a 10.
Okay, I guess I'd give myself a 10.
If there's a 10 girl, maybe you're a 10 too.
There are some like, I can be a little crazy.
But other than that, I'm a 10.
I'm a 10.
I'm a catch.
What can I say?
I guess, yeah, I'm a 10 too.
Self-love.
Yeah, I'd say a 10.
Life's too short to hate yourself.
Am I right?
Ten?
You don't think we're 10?
10.
100.
10.
Confidence codes, maybe.
It's a little bit of hubris, don't you think?
I mean, yes.
I mean, Samantha came in, though, with 7.5.
I'm thinking of like intern.
I mean, I guess, yeah.
I guess in all, like, okay, okay, yeah, I'd think of myself as a teacher.
So in that moment, I said 7.5.
This question sucks, by the way.
It's the worst question ever.
It just perpetuates like the whole, like, it just perpetuates like icky things.
Yeah, and then people don't respect when you're confident about yourself.
Exactly.
Like, even that comment.
Am I allowed to say it?
People say what?
She was hotter when she was humble.
Yeah.
Why can't you just be confident?
Like, you know, like we only have one body, one soul.
And like I said earlier, like we are at such a good age right now, you know?
We're cute.
We're fun.
We're young.
You know, you're going to look back in like years and you're going to be like, wow, I wish I wasn't as mean to myself.
Or I wish I, you know, that kind of stuff.
So, you know, why is that a bad thing to love yourself and think you're the coolest?
Yes.
So then It begets the question then, if you guys are tens, then do you deserve, physically speaking.
Oh, if it's just physical speaking?
Yeah, just looks-wise.
Do you then deserve a man looks-wise, who is a 10?
If you're a 10, then you surely must deserve a guy who's a 10.
Right?
I mean, logic, I guess.
Yeah.
And we could choose any men, even if we don't feel like they're a 10.
But I think that's subjective.
I feel like personality plays into it too.
Yeah.
Like, that's huge for guys.
Yeah, like, personality makes a personality.
I will think a guy's awful.
If they're really hot, but they have a horrible personality.
It wipes it away completely.
It's like he's a blank, but a blank.
Like, yeah, he's a 10, but he can't hold a conversation.
Yes, he's a seven.
Exactly.
Like, yeah.
Wait, personality.
I've heard that.
It's like, I've seen the videos on TikTok and stuff.
Oh, yeah.
She's a 10, or he's a 10, but.
Butter.
Do you guys play that game?
Yeah, I've done that.
Wait, so hold on.
So didn't you guys just like, that question's kind of icky.
But you just said that you play this game where you say he's a 10, but he wears flip-flops or whatever it is.
So isn't that, I mean.
Wait, what?
I think that rating ourselves in front of people is uncomfortable.
That's uncomfortable.
Online.
Yeah.
Online.
And then being questioned, like, oh, you think you're a 10, but is it Justin Lux?
It's like, I feel like trying to get at something that is a little bit.
It wasn't me.
It's Stiffler.
It was Stiffler in the chat.
Hey, by the way.
Oh, that's weird.
It's not John.
Yeah, Stiffler in the chat.
Okay, we'll move on.
Okay, so.
Wait, I have a question.
Eh, never mind.
Forget it.
Forget.
No, what was it?
So I was going to ask, like, what do you think is, can you name a celebrity that you think is like your looks equivalent?
Like a female celebrity?
No, like a male, like who would be like, okay, this guy like looks wise.
We're kind of on the same page.
So like Jason Momoa or Timothy Chalamay or Jason Seagal or Ryan Reynolds.
Here, we'll start with Samantha.
No, switch, guys.
We're going to start with Samantha.
Samantha, who's your looks match male celebrity?
What's that big question?
This is so hard.
This is so hard.
Oh my God.
Okay.
I can't think of one that I look alike, but I can think of one where I'm like, okay, we'd like to.
that you look like but we look good together that would be like you would say you're in the same same attractiveness or oh my god Same league, let's just say.
Well, I don't know, because someone...
Okay, well, this is just my...
Oh, you got a celebrity DM'd you?
You had someone slide into your DMs a blue check mark?
Yeah, I have had that, but I can't disclose who it is.
But no, I would say off the top of my head, honestly, since you mentioned him, I do, I think Timoly, Timothy, Tamui, Tamui, Timothy Chamlett would be similar.
Chamlet!
Hamlet, Shamalek.
Because he also has that kind of like, like, he's a bit different looking.
And you're a bit different looking?
Yeah.
Like, it's not a very conventional, just one look.
I can see that.
Yeah.
Okay.
Fair enough.
Fair enough.
Okay.
Timothy, if you're watching, her DMs are open.
Okay.
Anna.
This question still feels in the same vein as the other one.
It's still A little like, let's get deeper because we're all deep here.
I can feel it.
And I would say Ryan Reynolds.
Ryan Reynolds.
Yeah, he's hot.
Okay.
Ryan Reynolds.
I could see that for you.
Honestly, Ryan Reynolds is a bit.
He's hot.
Shea Mitchell.
She is also beautiful.
Oh, she?
Okay.
Yeah.
I love her.
Yeah.
Dude, I don't know how to answer this.
You can skip.
We'll skip.
I would say Miles Teller.
Miles Teller.
I think he's got kind of like a homey, like comforting look.
Okay.
Is that funny?
Do I have a homey, comforting look?
Well, is that what you're saying about yourself?
Yeah, like I think I'm, you know, like when I look at him, he doesn't seem intimidating, but he's also very, you know, seems like a good guy.
Yeah.
He's not like super male model, but he's good looking, you know?
Yeah.
Okay.
Yeah.
Got a little got a little pushback from this one.
Well, so I guess I'm curious.
So sorry, I'm just saying.
Do you guys object to kind of like trying to categorize people in this way, you know, like rating themselves?
Because I think people do.
I think realistically, a lot of people rate other people and judge.
I mean, we all kind of judge people by their appearance, you know, how tall are they?
You know, are they well dressed?
These sorts of things.
So I don't think, I don't really think there's anything wrong with rating someone or rating yourself, but I mean, it's actually funny because I was talking to this with my friend not too long ago.
It's funny, like you say you want all these things, like you list out all these things that would make someone a 10, but the person that you actually end up like dating or loving, like a lot of that doesn't even matter.
You're not even looking at that.
Like you can't really, like for me personally, I have, like, unfortunately, I cannot choose who I've fallen in love with or who I've been in like long-term relationships with and I've developed feelings for and all of those things that I've said, like, I'd probably rate that person like a six or a five, you know what I mean?
But I love them, and that's, you know, I don't know.
So I think the whole thing of rating is like it's only, it's such a superficial thing.
It only goes so far.
Follow-up question.
Would you guys date a short guy?
I have.
I have.
That's amazing.
You guys don't have a high preference.
Nobody at the table has a high preference.
Because if we want to talk about numbers, okay, pointing at me.
If we want to talk about numbers, I mean, that's a measurement right there.
Like a literal measurement.
So, what, six, two and above?
I need to be able to wear heels, and you're still taller than me.
Okay.
And how tall are you?
I'm like 5'7 ⁇ .
5'7.
Okay, so you want a guy who's taller than you?
Yeah.
Minimally.
Would you date a guy who's like 5'9?
So in heels, you'll be about his height or he's probably taller than them, depending on.
I feel like I personally wouldn't, but I know people who would.
Okay, so you wouldn't height?
How tall are you?
I'm 5'7 as well.
Okay.
5'8 King?
You know, I don't really height's not a huge thing for me.
I've been with someone that was 5'8.
So I would like a little taller than me.
Definitely not.
What about shorter than you?
5'5.
5'5'King.
Man, let's in the chat rise up.
Get the cameras.
I don't know.
Okay, fair enough.
Samantha?
Yeah, so I'm 5'2.
So I have, okay, I think the shortest I've dated was 5'8.
But to me, I mean, he was still taller than me.
Would I say he was as tall as I would have liked?
No, but he was taller than me, and I didn't really care.
So I guess hopefully that answers the question.
I dated a 5'6 king and it was amazing.
And I've also been with so many men and women that both shorter than me and taller than me that I feel like less attached to the height, possibly from being with women as well and just like feeling into the gender spectrum.
But you mean I'm also tall and it is nice to feel like held by someone who's taller.
So I'm open.
Word.
Word.
Okay, next chat.
Next chat.
Okay.
Robert Lundowski's wife says, Robert, what the f are you doing in California with these 30 foes?
Hey, hold on.
Be nice.
Okay, so I guess.
What is this?
What does 305 mean?
I think that's like the calculator for a hose.
Be nice, Robert Lundowski's wife.
You knew.
You knew it was a calculator for a hose.
Well, I'm familiar with the term 304.
Yeah, apparently people think I look like Robert Lewandowski.
Oh my gosh, I know who that is.
Who is that?
I know that name.
He's a soccer player.
Okay.
Very famous.
Very successful.
Hold on.
I think I got something here.
I got something here for you, Robert Lundowski's wife.
Let's see.
Okay, or maybe this one.
Thank you for the comment, man.
I appreciate it.
Appreciate it.
I think she wants you.
I think that's why she's calling us.
Maybe I could be.
Console logger.
Thank you for the $2 super chat.
Appreciate the support.
Thank you, man.
She's lying.
I'm sleeping with her at the moment.
You probably sent that 40 minutes ago.
So I'm not sure what the context of that is.
I think, was it directed at for our celibate queen when you were talking about?
It might have been a little bit more than a hundred.
But I want to tell her now.
Oh, right.
When I was like in my swing, I'm kind of single.
Yeah, I'm sleeping with you for sure, console logger.
Okay.
Oh.
Oh, Samantha.
He came back.
He literally had to go.
Samantha is fire, not gonna lie.
Okay.
Speak your truth.
Stephen Krug.
What's up, Stephen?
Good to see you again, man.
Thank you for the $5 super chat.
Much appreciated.
Thank you for the support.
When hierarchies were brought up, Anna seems very accurate.
Contrary to first impression, really recommend The Elephant in the Brain by Robin Hansen.
Thank you for the book recommendation, Stephen.
And then he comes back.
Stephen Krug with the $2 Super Chat.
All humans, men and women are dominant by nature.
All humans are dominant by nature.
I'm not Stephen.
I don't know if I necessarily understand or agree with that.
Are dominant by nature.
Well, maybe we can say, is one gender more dominant?
When I was talking about the domination thing.
Are we talking like personality?
Yeah, does he mean sexuality?
Are we talking like dom sex?
Yeah, is that what he's kidding at?
I don't know.
Because I think, broadly speaking, I'd say sexually speaking, most women take the submissive role.
I don't know about that.
I would not say most.
So you think most, when I say most, I'm saying maybe like Mainstream?
51% and up.
Traditional, okay.
Fair.
I think it's changing.
I think a lot of women are having to find themselves to be a bit more maybe assertive in certain situations.
Because we have a lot of guys just playing video games.
Anyways, that's a whole nother topic.
Okay, I think that's it for the super chats.
Thank you, Stephen Krug, with the $2 Super Chat.
Much appreciated.
So let's bring it back to wherever we were.
We're talking about dating, right?
Does dating suck?
So I guess let me frame this in another way.
Or no, okay.
We were talking about getting flown out at one point.
Did we go around the table on all that?
I think we stopped, yeah.
So, okay, have you ever been flown out or offered for has a guy ever maybe in your DMs, dating app?
Maybe I just don't talk to guys like across the country, though.
Okay.
What about you?
I was talking to this guy for a little bit and he offered to fly me out to Las Vegas.
But I ended up ghosting him.
Like, I did say yes, and then like kind of, you know, a few weeks before, I kind of ghosted him because I met someone else and that started going well.
So, and I still feel bad for it, but no regrets.
Oops.
Okay.
Got it.
Any extravagant, maybe not flown out, but any extravagant offerings as far as a date goes?
There's offerings.
I just, I don't know.
I don't like it.
You don't take them up.
Not really.
I feel like I feel like I need to know a person a little bit before we even go on the first date.
Oh.
Yeah.
Okay.
So next question.
Does dating suck more for men or for women?
I think it really depends on the type of person that man is and on the type of person that women is because let's just say broadly speaking.
Broadly speaking in general.
Speaking.
Or we could say average woman versus average man.
Does dating suck more for?
I think right now, in this day and age, it sucks more for a woman.
It sucks more for women.
Yeah.
Why?
I feel like men are really, and this is just me.
Like there could be a man out there who would do amazing things for me and has no bad intentions whatsoever, but I feel like I've been treated like in my experience very carelessly in the sense where I've had a man like, okay, put effort in maybe for a year, but once that year is over, it's like, okay, I'm either going to cheat on you or I'm not going to put effort into the relationship, but I'm not even going to tell you that I'm not interested anymore.
So it's up to me to get up and leave.
And same thing with you.
So they're just kind of keeping you around.
Yeah, and same thing with even just on dates.
Like even if you're just dating and you're not really in a relationship, I feel like guys don't have, like for me, if I don't like you, you'll know and I'll tell you.
But guys have this weird, yeah.
I mean, like, I guess if I don't want to go on a date with someone, I will say straight up, I do not want to go on a date with you.
And they know that they're not going to go on a date with me.
They know that they're not going to see me again.
But with guys, I feel like it gets like they could lead you on for so long and then it's just a careless thing.
Or they're seeing someone.
I've had a guy and I maybe saw him for four months and he was seeing someone else the entire time.
He had a whole girlfriend.
And I don't know.
I just.
Did you have a discussion with him though?
Was there an understanding that you had to do that?
Yeah, there was a mutual understanding where I completely thought that he was only seeing me.
So, and I think also like the dating app, social media, it all plays a role in it.
They think that they have so many people at their disposal at all times and they forget.
I don't know.
I don't know what it is.
It's so frustrating.
But I think because of those things and because that's been so normalized, I think it does suck more for women now because I do want to get treated nice.
Like just like the same effort that I'm putting in a relationship, I want that back.
And for some reason, guys can't really, they don't even have that decency.
But again, that's my experience.
I'm sure there's someone out there that does, but for right now, that's where I'm at.
So your first-hand experience has not been great?
No.
And then I've also had guys who are amazing, and I'm sure that they would treat me amazing, but I don't have feelings for them.
That is the crux.
I don't know where that comes from.
And so you're just, you're not attracted to them.
Yeah.
Well, isn't it interesting that the guys that you end up with or that you're attracted to happen to be the guys that you say they're not treating you well or they're kind of playing?
They're all in line with standards, things like that.
Okay.
It's weird.
It's almost like a, I do like a bit of a chase.
Okay.
So would you say they're exciting?
Yes.
These men.
Yes.
I would say that they're exciting.
Would you say they're jerks?
Yes.
Are you attracted to jerks?
I like a little bit of attitude.
I like a little, I mean.
Or a bad boy.
Do you like bad boys?
Yes.
Okay.
Is it plot?
So, sorry, go ahead.
Keep going.
I had nothing else.
Well, I was just going to ask, you mentioned that there were guys who they were interested in you.
Yeah.
And you had the impression that they would actually be perfectly dutiful boyfriends.
Yes.
But you're just not attracted to them.
Absolutely.
100%.
So do you think there's a way to reconcile that to being like, well, they're not quite exciting, but maybe.
Yes.
And I've heard the term like you don't always end up with your soulmate.
But I mean, like, I've heard of it.
Yeah, there's not really soulmates.
I'm not soulmate.
But I guess, okay, yeah, I don't agree with the idea of a soulmate either, but I guess it was the idea, like, okay, if you're going to be with someone in a very long-term thing, like such as a marriage, like be with someone that you know for the long term is going to be good for you versus that excitement at the beginning.
But I don't know if I agree.
I don't know.
So let me ask you a question.
Is the biggest problem that you're encountering with the men that you're attracted to and that you're dating?
You said there was like a guy for four months, maybe there's a guy for a year.
Is the biggest thing that you're encountering that they are not really committing to you?
Like they're players and they're just.
Yes, they are.
There's other women in the picture.
But also too, what you said, playing the game is a big thing because when I don't play the game, I notice that I get played.
But when I do play the game, I notice that I almost can kind of curate a relationship with a man if I play it the right way.
And it's such a funny thing.
What does that mean when you play?
Like if I play the game, let's say they message, they text me, like, I'm not going to respond right away.
I'm going to make them think that I have better things.
I mean, obviously, I do have better things to do than respond to them, but I'm going to make them think that I could care less whether I see them again or whether I – things like that.
It's like I need them to know that I don't need them more than they need me.
And that's a part of the game a little bit because guys, when they feel, I don't know.
I actually can't speak on that.
When they feel what?
No, go ahead.
I feel like when they feel like, oh, woman is, oh my God, she's investing all this time in me.
She's expecting these things from me.
They get really intimidated and they start to sort of run away from you and they feel insecure.
So now they're talking to other women and they're doing anything they can to run away from either having feelings for you if they do or having the responsibility of letting you down.
So.
So well said.
So do you think?
And never mind.
Go ahead.
So well said.
You put the untowards so beautifully.
And yes, energies that I've felt so deeply as well.
But to answer this question, well, I feel like we're assuming heteronormativity.
So just to presence that, when the question is, dating suck more for men?
Yeah, let's, I mean, yeah, we can keep it just within the confines of straight.
I kind of have two answers to this because I feel like in, I love being a woman and I love, yeah, being a woman who's dating and single and like just in my sensual expression.
And I feel that even with the unsafety of women in some situations and just the misogyny, et cetera, I feel that there's this like pulse of the goddess that men feel.
What?
The goddess?
The goddess.
The goddess.
Eris.
Is that Eris?
Eros?
Eros?
When I say the goddess, it's like this energy that's within all of us for sure, but it's this like feminine radiance that men or anyone can feel.
And there's this like.
It's an aura?
It's an aura.
It's like, okay, like the concept, if we're going to break it down a bit, it's like how women can get in free at many clubs and men can't kind of thing.
That's an aura thing?
I thought that was just a hot chick thing.
Exactly.
Hot chick thing.
Okay, so we're talking like goddesses, right?
Goddess.
Okay, so is goddess like a physical like they're just like we're all goddesses here.
Myself included?
If you want to be a goddess, you can be.
Fuck yeah.
What about Kiki?
She's definitely a goddess.
Over here.
She's a goddess.
Yes.
Yeah, she's a bit.
She's a bit shy, but she's a goddess.
So, okay, so in my subjective answer, two answers, that in the mainstream communities, I feel like dating sucks a bit more for men.
And there's like a lot of, there's pressure, and like there's, oh, how do I, you know, what do I do?
And I have to, and the responsibility, and do I pay him?
Do I have to have the master plan?
All this stuff.
But in the spiritual circles that I'm in, I feel like, as I was saying at the beginning, there's this like limited amount of conscious men.
And so it sucks more for women who are looking for men.
But like for myself, who's into men and women, it's awesome.
But as I am calling right now my life partner into my field, who I do want to be a man, I feel this thing of like, there are so many conscious women out there.
And all these men who are like taken by the conscious women, but there are a finite amount of conscious men.
And there are so many more that are like waking up and growing.
And yeah, so that question has like a few different answers based on the circles that you're in.
Okay.
Good answer.
Good answer.
Thank you.
I kind of also don't have a direct answer.
Like I could see both sides.
For women, if they really wanted to just go on a date with a random guy, they could easily on any dating app.
But we're also subject to not like fear, but you don't know the guy.
So it's like danger.
And then, I don't know, it's a little scarier for women, but maybe I could see for men, it's harder to find like a girl that will agree to go on a date with them.
But yeah, that's just my stance, though.
I feel like dating is definitely hard in this digital age.
I think a lot of things are more superficial on both sides.
Jeez, I don't know.
I'd say there definitely is a lot more, I don't know, more, but there is a lot of pressure on men, like financially, definitely.
So like paying for the first date, for example.
Okay, anything else?
I didn't mean to cut you off.
It sounded like you had a few other things to add to that.
Yeah, I definitely think there's pressure on both sides.
Yeah.
Okay.
Any other examples you can think of?
Hmm.
Ladies.
Of how there's more pressure for men.
Yeah.
I mean, sexually, I feel like.
Yeah.
But I don't know.
Go into that a bit.
Okay.
Well, I mean, just as I said that, I was like, is there?
But, I mean, like, I want, if I'm with a man, like, he needs to go down on me before he die.
He needs to.
He needs to, like, fully, like, worship me as a goddess, taste my yoni before entering.
Huh?
My yoni.
Your what?
My yoni.
Yoni.
Yoni.
Is that like, it's the Sanskrit word for vagina.
Your yoni, okay.
Yes, my yoni.
Sanskrit.
Sanskrit word.
And it's, yeah, it means what is Sanskrit for pen?
You know, I don't know.
I don't.
I don't speak Sanskrit, unfortunately.
It only means certain words.
Got it.
But it means source of abode.
Source of all of life, because we all came through the yoni.
We all came through the yoni.
Unless we had a C-section in it.
Yoni, yoni, yoni.
So the guy has to go down on you.
Must.
Must, the first time, like in a sexual experience.
The first time he has to go down on you.
Yes, yes.
And I've been with men who have to.
Do you reciprocate?
Often.
Yeah.
Often.
Yeah.
The lingam is powerful, and like I enjoy worshiping the lingam.
And I do feel like the lingam.
Ma'am, this is an English speaking pod.
Are you using these words to reclaim the power?
Wait, the lingam?
The lingam, yes.
Penis.
That's the penis?
Yes, that's the penis.
We have yoni and lingam to make them sacred because the lingam holds the seed of life and the yoni holds the blood of life, the womb space.
And so that's what, that's how we're all here.
And to just like bring some sacredness to the realms of sexuality.
So the guy's got to go down on you.
Yes.
Must.
Must.
Okay.
Not every time for it, but I just need to know, like, hey, you're worshiping me as a goddess.
And like you see me before you're trying to enter me without like looking and really like honoring this portal.
It's rather than just like, oh, this feels good.
There's a hole.
Let me just like go inside of you.
What if a guy is like, hey, maybe next time?
Is it just you're not even, it's not going to happen?
Give a little more context.
Like where are we in the interaction?
First time being intimate together.
And he's like, listen, rather wait until we're in.
Either he's okay, I'll give two scenarios.
Either he just says point blank, I don't like doing that.
I don't want to do that.
Or he says, I'll do that, but I want to be in a relationship with you first.
Like more serious before I do that.
Well, what would he do otherwise?
Like we're just going to kiss and do nothing else.
There's hands, toys.
You could throw some toys in there.
Is the yoni against the toy?
Like, can you use toys with the yoni?
Nothing can enter.
You can.
You can, absolutely.
Like crystal wands, jade eggs, like anything.
Dildos, whatever.
Vibrator.
Yeah, vibrator.
Crystal wands are my favorite because you like feel that energy deeply.
But if he was like, I'm not into that, then I would be a total red flag because I'm like, if you're not into worshiping.
Red flag if he won't go down on you.
Yeah, if he's like, I'm not into going down on you.
I'm like, this is like the portal of life.
This is the portal of life.
So it's important to me that you are willing to worship this part of me.
Okay, so red flag.
Red flag.
If he's like, I want to say that.
Red flag or just like a preference thing.
For me, I'm not saying for others.
This is like my, for my preferences.
I feel like red flag sort of.
Red flag is like, this would be an indicator that there's something else wrong with them.
Whereas I, to me.
Right.
To me, that'd more so be like a lack of matching on a preference.
I don't know.
Well, I don't know.
It depends how you define what a red flag is.
I wouldn't, if a girl is like, hey, I don't really like doing that.
It's not, it wouldn't be a red flag where I'm like, okay, there's something else wrong with her.
You know, because you can look at a red flag like in a behavior and be like, okay, they did this.
That's a bad look for down the line.
But anyways, I'm kind of derailing here.
No, this is a good point.
But okay, can I say that?
No, but I totally respect that.
That's totally your preference.
Well, and on that note too, it's like if a girl said, I don't want to go down on a man, I don't think that's a red flag because we, and the reason for that.
Yes.
And if I think of how many men in high school that I just went down on and they never got anywhere near my yoni unless they were going to like go inside of me.
Did you refer to it to a yoni when you were in high school?
I did not.
This is what a yoni was.
So it's like a sexual thing.
No, it's not a reference.
They didn't go down on a man.
It's like we already covered this earlier in the topic of like the double standards that have happened.
So maybe there's sexual trauma that would prevent a woman from going down on a man to like enjoy that and feel like she's in the worship of it, right?
So you're saying there's like a past history where the man was not reciprocating.
Thus, in her future relationships, it's not.
It might bring up trauma for a woman to be going down on a man because it could bring up trauma from a time when she felt like she had to.
Should that man accept that?
I think that it depends on if they want to be in a deep relationship together.
If they do, then yes, they get to work with that and it can shift.
Because all my work is about sexual healing.
So this is all, it can all shift.
But I'm just trying to understand the whole thing.
Red flag.
If the guy doesn't want to go down on the girl, not a red flag.
If, wait, did I mix that up?
Not a red flag if the girl doesn't want to go down on the guy.
So the reason that I use this term red flag.
And if a guy doesn't want to go down on a girl, it's not like red flag, he's canceled.
It's like in my realm, I want to be met by someone who's like ready to fully meet me there.
And the reason that I say it's a red flag, if he's like, I'm just not into that ever, then I would get curious about what in this person's reality is making them afraid to like really surrender to the goddess.
Word.
So, okay, but I'm just trying to understand the double standard component.
So, and it's not so much the red flag part.
It's totally, if the girl doesn't want to go down on the guy, fine.
But if the guy doesn't want to go down on the girl, not fine.
And are you speaking just for you or are you speaking like for all women?
This is a good question.
So at first it was for me.
And now, okay, okay.
So ultimately, the double standards do get to die, right?
Like, and preferences get to exist.
Maybe there's a man and woman, neither of them want to be going down on, right?
So we all get to like have our sexual preferences.
It's not about like this is what, this is what sex should be.
No, it's like we get to explore that and find our matches with others.
So that's why I was like, for me, it's a red flag.
But the double standard, the reason that I feel that, it's like as we're coming out of this space of like inequality between men and women, there's also a big orgasm gap.
And men often just not all men, but often just like coming really quickly and women not.
And of course that can be totally flipped, you know, so not making blatant statements, but there is this orgasm gap, and it's important that that also gets to be acknowledged and healed.
And so there's a book called She Comes First that I would highly recommend for any heterosexual man to read.
It's great.
And it talks about the pleasures of giving cunalingus and really having that as a way to like soften, open, relax before penetration happens.
I, wait, just to bounce off of that, like especially when you mentioned high school, like high school sexual relations, like I knew boys that didn't even know girls could finish.
Like it's so foreign to them when they're exploring their sexuality.
Like it's very centered around the male experience.
And I remember, I remember, you know, when you're hooking up with a guy, you know, in high school, you're pretty new to things.
Like you're like, okay, I have to give him oral sex.
But you never expect it back.
Like at least in my experience and in my friends' experiences.
And a lot of the times I would hear, oh, like from guys, like, oh, a girl has to go down on me, but I'm not doing that.
Like, that's gross.
And that, that's a popular sentiment for sure.
Like, I can't speak for everyone, but it's something I've heard so many times from so many different people.
And that's definitely affected the female sexual experience.
Like, I know that women, by the time it comes, when a man goes down on her, they feel uncomfortable or gross or like icky or self-conscious.
And that's a very common thing that, you know, I feel like generally males don't share.
Yeah.
Yeah.
It's like Samantha, come on in on this one.
It's such a hard thing because I feel the same way.
I didn't even realize.
I was like, oh, it'll never happen to me.
It'll never happen to me.
Okay, well, like I, like, me and like a whole group of girls were talking and they were like, okay, you need to do this.
And I did that.
Wait, what will never happen to you?
I completely thought I was not capable of having an orgasm.
Oh, of coming.
And I have to say, maybe I was like, how old?
I was like 19.
I was like, yeah, I was 19.
And then I was able to do it to myself, but even when a guy would try, it was, like you're saying, it was so uncomfortable.
There was no way I could relax enough for that to even happen.
And I still, like, that's still a struggle today.
Not, I mean, okay, there's a lot of guys who just don't know what they're doing, but then there's also a lot of guys who won't even take the time with you.
And then there's a lot of guys, and when they don't take the time with me, there's no way I'm going to relax.
There's absolutely no way.
So it just can't happen.
And then that is frustrating for me because we're not even, I mean, yeah, we're both having fun, but you experience something completely different.
Yeah, and it kind of just feels like you're a body.
Yes, it feels really frustrating afterwards.
Yes.
And relaxation is the first step to orgasm, experience safety and relaxation.
That's what leads us there.
Do you want to come in on this?
Yeah, sure.
I also think like I get the awkwardness.
I've only I haven't had sex like that many times.
I only have two bodies, but I feel like were they boyfriends Like long term?
No.
Just one night?
Not one night, but like casual, maybe a couple weeks or two.
Two.
Okay, well.
Why are you surprised?
No, just congrats.
Okay.
Okay, thanks.
Keep going.
But yeah, I feel like a lot of guys, like once they're done, they don't really care about you, if that makes sense.
Yeah.
Oh, like once the guys come.
Once he's done, like he's just like, okay, here's the towel.
You know?
Well, I mean, to come to men's defense.
Okay.
When we orgasm as men, it's a wrap.
Like we cannot physically continue.
No, we can't.
That's not true.
Holy.
99% of the time.
When you run your sexuality and have full body orientation, listen, the heart chakras, if you're doing the meditation, you can bust three nuts in a row.
I don't know.
Exactly.
But 99% of men, they come, like, there's a refractory period.
At least, like, they're out of the game for 30 minutes, at least.
So, but I agree with her.
She has to come first.
If I'm with a girl, she's coming first at least a couple times if I can do it.
But then it becomes a goal.
It's so nuanced because it's like, if I can do it at least a couple times, like a baseball game, you know, I didn't mean you, but like.
I'm not thinking of it in that terms, but like.
And then I can put pressure on her.
So it's like very, it's tender.
Okay, let's go back to the.
So I do want to go around the table on this.
We'll start over here.
Deal breaker if a guy doesn't want to go down on you.
Well, are they not going down on me because they're not comfortable with me yet, or they think that it's gross?
I'm not sure quite what their reason would be.
Maybe some guys just don't like it, but it's not a gross thing.
They just don't like doing it.
Maybe it's a sexual hang-up.
It could also just be that they want to wait until they're more serious with you.
I've heard that from both men and women.
They're like, well, for that, I'd rather wait until I'm in a relationship.
I've heard that.
Yeah, I feel like I can't expect to have my boundaries respected if I don't respect their boundaries as well.
So if they're uncomfortable, thanks.
If they're uncomfortable, then I have to respect that.
But I would be a little uneasy if they made that clear with me and then asked me to give them oral sex.
Yeah.
So yeah, that's a tricky, that's a tricky one.
Yeah, I don't know if it's a deal breaker.
I don't think it would be, but like hopefully in the future, like if we get to know each other more, then he would.
I don't know.
Okay.
We kind of got your take.
Let's bring it over to Samantha.
Yeah, I'm kind of on the same boat with you.
It's like, okay, first of all, why?
Number two, of course, I'll respect it, but is that something that's going to be a forever thing?
Because if it is, then what is like that feels like that?
I can't really see a relationship where that's not happening because, I mean, like, I guess I could ask the guy the same question.
Could you see a relationship with me if I didn't want to do that to you?
Yeah, real so reverse.
I'm curious when you said like people want to just do that in a relationship.
Are these people that you're talking about, they're like, they want to have just like penetrative sex, but not do oral sex?
So yeah, I mean, I suppose that they say for this sexual act, giving head, I'd want to wait until I'm in a relationship, but maybe they say, okay, well, sex is fine, but maybe this, maybe they view oral as more intimate in a way, and in some ways it is, than penetrative sex.
So in the scenario, is the guy telling her to go down on him or no?
I mean, that's certainly something that could be negotiated.
I don't necessarily think that if one partner in a relationship has a preference or boundary that then the other partner then has to say, well, if you won't do it for me, I won't do it for you.
Because to me, that seems a bit, I understand it.
I would understand it, but I don't think it should necessarily preclude you from wanting to do it in the same way that, like, trying to think of an example here.
If a guy, let me ask, who here would be not interested in having anal sex?
Not anal sex.
Would not want to have anal sex.
I guess.
Wait, what?
Doesn't like this.
I'm open.
Okay.
So.
But that's a scenario where, let's say the guy wanted it, though, but you didn't want it.
Right?
But so that is your boundary.
You're like, I don't want to do it.
And then that's how it is, you know?
So, but that wouldn't necessarily feel like this isn't a great example.
But I don't think it necessarily, like, I don't think it has to be a situation where you're like, you won't do this, so I won't do that.
If you won't go down on me, I won't go down.
Yeah, like you could, if the guy had, like, he just genuinely did not like doing it, maybe he had a neck problem.
But that's why it's a red flag.
Because if he genuinely doesn't like it, is he afraid of women?
Is he disgusted by the yoni?
Why is he disgusted by the yoni?
Is he disgusted by moonblood?
Like, what is he afraid of?
Would be my question.
And so if, and because this is, I have leg hair, and I've been with a lot of men who, that freeze.
Like turn out.
Yes, a lot of leg hair.
Wait, do you want to, to the camera, do you want to show my leg hair?
Oh, I can show you my armpits.
Hear my armpits.
Should I show my leg hair?
We'll just assume.
We'll take your word for it.
We're going to take your word for it.
Guys, visualize.
She has a lot of leg hair.
Okay, so you're a nature.
There's a term for it.
Natural?
My natural body?
There's like a specific term.
It's not coming to me.
It doesn't really matter.
Wait, so what was your question?
So for my thing with the red flag thing, it was like, and I brought up the leg hair because if a man, and I've been with men who are like, I can't because of your leg hair.
And I'm like, okay, cool.
Do your thing.
Find someone else.
I'll find someone else.
And I've been with men who are like, this is new for me.
I've never been with a woman who has this much leg hair.
And it can bring up XYZ.
But if I'm with a man who's willing to work with that, the fears that arise and maybe they feel emasculated, maybe they feel ashamed, maybe they feel confused about their sexuality or confused about gender.
And if they're willing to work with that and then can lean into the turn on that's there, then I'm like, okay, I'm open.
And similarly with kind of lingus, if someone was like, I'm not into that, but I'm willing to work with that fear and lean into it, then it's like, okay, I'm down.
Question.
Yeah.
When is the last time that you shaved your legs?
Just out of curiosity.
So the chat can visualize.
Like three years ago?
Because I shaved my head like six years ago and I started growing at my body hair and that was like reversing the crotch area.
On naturale there too.
But I often trim a little bit because it increases sensation.
Word?
Okay, so what was the question about the head thing?
Which one?
The head.
Shaving my head.
Well, you said, you were asking, like, well, what is the hesitation there from men?
Right, exactly.
Going down.
It was like, you know, that's why I said it was a red flag if they're like, never.
Like, there's an underlying thing.
It's not just body.
Yeah.
You know, something along those lines.
But I mean, I would ask the panel, ask the girls, do you guys give enthusiastic blowjobs?
You're not like, because some girls are grossed out by giving head.
I didn't used to.
Some girls are kind of grossed out by it.
They don't like it.
Enthusiastic PJs.
You want me to say this on live?
Say it on live.
It's more enjoyable when it's reciprocated.
Sure, of course.
Sure.
Yes.
Yeah, because you have a deeper understanding.
You have a deeper bond.
And it's a shared, it's a shared experience instead of more of a chore or more.
Yeah.
That's fine.
Yeah, like if he did it to me, then I would be like more than happy to do it for him.
Yeah.
Got it.
Yeah.
But inherently.
Inherently what?
Is there any hesitation on that?
Or you're like, I'm game.
Maybe not, like, the first time.
I don't know.
It varies with the guy, too.
Like, it just depends how good the connection is.
Samantha?
Yeah, it depends on the connection and how comfortable I am and how enthusiastic I am.
Because if I'm not enthusiastic, I'm sure you'll know.
Okay.
Well, I can.
So I can.
Can I answer it too?
Sure.
For me, it used to feel like a chore, but it's like become this reverence for the cock and this like deep, just like, wow, like thank you for this, this energy that penetrates with such clarity.
And so I feel like I find a lot more pleasure in it now, but it's taken so much healing around the masculine for me to not feel repulsed and like it's a chore.
So yeah, it's taken time and it's not with every man.
It's that I feel that like pleasure, only those I'm connected to.
Okay.
So I can, y'all want my take on this one?
Sure, dude.
Okay.
So.
Are you devil's advocate in this or is this?
Who knows?
It could be devil's advocate.
I'll keep it a mystery.
But so me personally, I have not gone down on a girl since the Bush administration.
No pun intended.
So that's like 2008, 2007.
Why?
33.
I'm an old man.
So I have a couple reasons.
I'm not saying it couldn't be possible in the future.
It could happen, you know.
Maybe the right girl, she's really great.
She's really fantastic.
She might convince me.
So one, kind of hurts the neck, you know, my neck, the jaw.
And then, but hear me out.
We feel.
Yeah.
We're doing the same thing.
It's even worse for us.
Yeah.
Way worse.
It's like going on.
Anyway, continue.
Yeah.
Well, I mean, anyways, so, and here's the thing.
Here's a big one.
And so at first I used to be like, well, I'd rather wait until I'm in a relationship with a girl to do it when I'm serious.
And I'll tell you why that is.
So the current dating meta, and we sort of talked about this before, the current dating meta is when you're meeting someone new, you have to assume they're sleeping with at least one other person, at least one other person.
I mean, you can ask, but if you're just meeting this person, there's not a guarantee that they're even going to be honest, even if you ask them.
So you have to assume they're sleeping with someone else.
Me personally, the thought of, okay, if I'm going down on a girl and a guy fucked her last night, I have an issue with that.
And women can feel the same way.
Oh, you just fucked a girl yesterday.
I don't want to go down on you.
Totally understand that.
I totally understand that.
If a girl felt that way, you know, fine.
But so for me, the dating meta, as it is, people have so many options.
People are dating a ton of people.
Like, you know, you've got to assume They're fucking somebody else.
You have to assume that going in.
And you can't assume that they'd be honest with you.
Oh, no.
It's been four months since I've had sex.
You cannot, like, people lie.
And yeah, so that's a big reason.
So you would have a problem going down in a woman if she fucked a man yesterday, but not putting your lingam inside her yoni.
Penis, vagina, sorry.
Clarification.
Well, I would still probably have an issue if she had having sex with her if she fucked a guy the day before.
Now, granted, of course, like if we're not in a relationship, I mean, to me, at the end of the day, to me, it's still gross.
It's like a I would be disgusted by the thought of that.
But I'm a monogamous person.
So the thought that I'm sleeping with somebody and they just fucked somebody seven hours ago, to me, is off-putting.
And I certainly don't think that's unreasonable.
And I certainly wouldn't find it unreasonable if a woman was like, oh, okay, like, you just fucked another girl yesterday.
Okay.
I don't know.
I do think it's a bit different between men and women, but yeah.
But on that, the nuance of like going down on her versus being inside of her.
I mean, well, one, if you're having sex, condoms.
I mean, that would diminish it a little bit.
But there's dental dams.
Dental dams exist.
I haven't tried those.
You might be able to convince me, but I just, that's not.
In the same way, it's like sex without a condom is better.
I would imagine for a woman, it's probably going to be much more of a turn-on if there's not this piece of plastic that's just fucking like saran wrap over the clip, you know?
So, I mean, that might actually be a scenario where I'd be more open to it.
Bust out a dent.
In fact, do I have one here?
Can we flavor one?
Dental dam.
You know what?
I don't have a dental dam, but I do have a female condom.
Get the zoom in on that.
Oh, my God.
Whoa.
Thank God.
That is a female condom.
Let me ask you guys a question.
Let's say you're hooking up with a guy first time, and you're like, Chad.
Chad, never, Chad.
Whatever.
I don't know what his name is.
say uh i'll go with chat just continue No name.
Bartholomew.
Ah, much better.
Do you have a condom?
And he's like, I do.
And he hands you this.
Look at it.
How do you react?
Feel the diameter.
It's huge.
It's huge.
Female condom, ladies.
You use it.
That goes inside you.
Oh, I get it.
I've used a sponge before.
Is it like a disposable diaphragm kind of thing?
It's basically like a condom.
It's the same thing as a condom, but bigger, I guess.
And it goes over your cervix.
I feel like that wouldn't be pleasurable for men.
It goes on the vagina.
Immediately, no. I feel like immediately, no.
He pulls it out.
You don't.
No, go.
Immediately no.
He's like, put it on.
That's like a contraption.
It's contraption.
It's a literal contraption.
It's just like a condom.
I feel like the whole thing would be ruined just trying to figure it out.
Wouldn't this not feel pleasurable either?
Because there's still something?
Yeah.
I feel like with the condom, it's pretty skin tight.
For a vagina, it's not really the same case.
Like, I feel like that would be more crumpled in a way.
Yeah, this probably doesn't feel as good.
I reckon.
Yeah, interesting.
It's more just that shit would be funny as fuck.
I think a girl would laugh, to be honest.
I should try it.
Because a sponge covers your cervix or a diaphragm covers your cervix.
So then it's like it's very pleasurable.
But that seems like it would be interesting.
But yeah, I guess a dental dam could be doable, I guess.
Maybe if she's a really good girl, then you know.
Good girl.
Oh.
Like, no, not in that way.
Not in that way.
But if, like, I really liked her, you know, maybe she can convince me on Valentine's Day, maybe on her birthday, maybe.
Do you think that you're good at it?
Good at what?
Head?
Yeah, going down on girls.
Shit, I mean, it's been like a decade and a half.
Probably not.
No, I'd kill it.
I'd be amazing.
I know it.
So you, for that decade and a half, you've had that same, you've never been in a serious relationship?
Is that what you're saying?
I've been in multiple long-term serious relationships.
Okay.
Five-year, two-year, nine-month.
I feel like your main problem was, oh, I don't know if she fucked someone yesterday.
So if you're in a committed relationship.
Well, that's one of the reasons.
One of the reasons why, and this is one of the reasons why I'd actually recommend, I guess I'm giving advice.
I'd recommend men not do it the first time you're with a girl.
Like, unless you've established that you guys are monogamous, you have to assume, and girls can assume this too about men, that they're fucking somebody else.
Like, I mean, you two are in Nydal Vista.
You know how it is.
You're in LA.
You know how it is.
It's not a problem for anybody.
You know how it is.
If you're open to polyamory.
Well, I do think, okay, so I do think it is a bit different between men and women, but most men, like, have a very, unless they're cucks, they have it, they're going to have an issue with a woman who's like fucking a bunch of other men.
I don't think that's a particularly controversial take.
Well, if you're in the polyamory community and you're consciously communicating about all the other men that you're sleeping with and they know each other and they're brothers, that's totally different.
Yeah, but I mean, that's most men, most women are told normies.
They're not polyamorous.
If you look, the vast majority of people.
You ask most women.
No, disagree.
It's cool to get into those, not just the exception doesn't make the rule, you know.
So like there are polyamorous men.
There are men that want to be cucked and have like another guy come in and like fuck his girl.
But like most men are going to have a serious issue with that.
Well, we can ask the table.
And again, I do also, before I go around, I do acknowledge it is a bit different between men and women.
But do you have an issue with men who are promiscuous?
Or would you rather date a guy who's not promiscuous or would you rather I'm not framing this question right?
Do you have if a guy had before you, if a guy had slept with a hundred women, is that an issue for you?
Well, I think there's a broader underlying message to that.
Like if you sleep with a hundred women, how do you really perceive women and how are you going to perceive me?
You know?
Because that's a lot, you know?
You're going to be number 101.
You're very special.
Oh, whoop, very special.
Right?
Yeah, I feel like that conveys a deeper message and I'd be a little more uneasy.
Let me ask you a question.
You're seeing a guy, you like this guy, maybe it's a first, second date.
You find out that in the previous seven days he slept with four other women.
Do you think that the likelihood, it's certainly plausible that that could turn into a fruitful and long-term loving relationship, but just like your gut instinct, if you find out a guy had slept with four other women and he's about to go on a date with you, he slept with four other women that week.
Before we met, like, are we first meeting on this date or have we been talking?
Whatever the scenario, let's say the first, second, or third day.
So it's pretty new.
Okay.
But he's entertaining other options.
So you're probably going to think, okay, I'm just going to be part of the roster.
Yeah, long term, that...
He's probably not a good bet for long term.
Yeah.
Yeah, definitely.
Definitely.
Maybe if you just want to have fun, fine, who cares, right?
Yeah.
Maybe.
But even then, some women might be like, okay, that's a problem.
Do you want to come in on this?
Yeah, I kind of feel the same way, but people have their past.
Like, I don't know if they were going through something and they use sex as like a means of making themselves feel better.
Like, I know people who go through that or like people who are like celebrities or like high-profile people, I'm going to assume that they like have hooked up with other people.
But what was the question?
Would you take quarrel with a guy you're interested in potentially dating?
Would it be like a deal breaker, a red flag, or just a non-starter if you knew that he had, he was a player, he's slept with a bunch of people.
You got to play the game.
You got to be the player too.
But you're not a player, though.
You don't know me.
Well, I'm just kidding.
But I mean, you admitted to your numbered two body counts.
How old are you?
19?
I'm 21.
21?
I mean, that's, I'm not going to lie, that's pretty low for.
And I would say that's a good thing.
But why don't you come in on this?
Yeah.
It's not, I wouldn't say it's a red flag for me.
It's more the number to me is less important.
It's more of like, how are you showing up with me in this moment?
And what, yeah, like what, who are you?
Can I feel your energy?
And the number, yeah, it's not that important.
And I've slept with a lot of people as well.
And also being in the sacred sexuality worlds.
And it's, there's like, yeah, just this sharing of erotic energy that can happen in a conscious way that's beautiful.
And so I'm open to that.
I'm here for that.
But it's like, if the person's coming in with an energy that I'm, it's also like, what am I looking for?
Do I just want sex in this moment?
Then like maybe I'd be open to that.
But do I want, you know, someone who's going to like really care for me and we can go into a relationship?
Then maybe I wouldn't be open to it.
So depends on what I'm seeking.
Yeah.
I mean, same thing like you said.
If a guy is sleeping with a lot of other women, I'm going to automatically assume that that's the same regard they're going to have for me.
Like what are you going to, why do you want to have sex with me then?
If you're having sex with other women?
So.
Yeah, like are you going to go to another girl's house right after?
So, I mean, I guess I just have little regard for it.
Like, I just, yeah, like, why are you talking to me?
You have other women that you can sleep with.
But I guess it's like, I don't know, like, if a guy is trying to show interest in me and actually wants to take me seriously, I guess that's a different story.
But then I have to ask the question, like, okay, are you still having sex with all these other women?
Like, if they are, like, why would I take them seriously?
What would make me want to take them seriously?
So.
Yeah, I feel like in the beginning, what you said, like, you can kind of assume that might not be the case every time.
But, wait, where was I going with this?
Never mind.
Just scared me.
Did I?
Yeah, you wanted to come in?
Go ahead.
I read one of the comments.
Oh, sure.
That, okay, low body count girls are more attractive.
And that's just interesting because it just plays into.
But see, it plays into this concept that, like, if you, it's like, you know, either you're a prude slat.
Hold on, just hold on just a sec.
Eric, show some more of the chats, please.
Yeah, sorry, go ahead, go ahead.
Yeah, it plays into this, like, the prude slut scale that, like, either, like, you know, like, oh, you've only slept with a few people, and then it's like, okay, now I'm into that, but like, it has to be the right amount of people.
It can't be too little, because then it's like, oh, like, you're prude, and you've only, you haven't slept with any people, but if it's too many.
Do you mean in heterosexual dynamic?
Yeah, I feel like that's the same thing.
No, the lower, the better.
Well, that is so strange.
Zero.
Because you're going to shame women for exploring their sexuality.
It's not about shaming, it's about having a preference.
Yeah, but it's a lot like you're seeing a woman as a good, you know?
No.
Exactly.
Okay, well, think of it this way.
Like, I feel like a lot of men are kind of very into like the concept of like taking a woman's virginity.
Like, oh, she's pure, she's untouched.
And that also goes into like the whole shaving thing.
Like, from a very young age, I always thought that was so strange.
Like, you need to be bald everywhere, like a child.
You need to be pure, untouched, like a child.
Like, it's nice.
Where are you going with that?
There's so much.
Where are you going with that?
Because I don't think a man having a preference for a woman who has shaved legs or who prefers a woman who's maybe more innocent, has a lower body count, is somehow partaking in the shrinking of women.
Well, no, I don't, it's not like a child.
I don't want to go there.
I think that's pretty normal.
Normal.
What is normal, though?
Normal was created by men.
Exactly.
And normal was created by men.
Okay.
I don't even know.
It wasn't created by women.
Right?
Normal is created by the broad consensus of culture and society.
From centuries and centuries ago, where only men had say.
Sorry.
Women had plenty of say back in the day.
Did they, though?
They had plenty of say.
Plenty of say.
I don't know.
History books.
His story, right?
Not her story.
Let's not go back into the misogyny patriarchy stuff because we already sort of.
But just real quick on this topic of the shrinking and the low body count thing.
I love that you brought that up because it does play into the shrinking of women, like the hairlessness and the purity, shrinking.
But men are attracted to innocence.
That is an attractive trait in women.
It's not.
Okay.
You guys mentioned the hair thing.
Let's talk about hair.
Do you guys have a preference for men's facial hair?
Clean shaven, beard, nothing.
No, personally, I don't know.
A lot of women.
I've dated a lot of bearded men.
Okay, well, you're an outlier.
You're an outlier.
So beard?
No problem.
you'll date a guy with a beard i think i prefer no but you okay so yeah you have a preference No, no, no, so you have a preference for clean-shaven?
Yeah, but if he has a mustache, that's fine too.
What about the beard?
Like a full beard?
A big beard, long beard.
Like, how long?
To hear.
I personally wouldn't, but I people have to do it.
Okay, so you have a preference about hair.
What about you?
Would you date a guy who had facial hair, full beard?
Yep.
Mustache?
No preference.
Handlebar mustache?
No preference.
No preference at all?
Okay.
All right.
Go ahead, Samantha.
No preference.
Okay.
And we know you.
Well, are you trying to compare facial hair to pubic hair?
Oh, leg hair.
Or pubic hair, too.
Women are free to have a preference for.
Women have pubic hair, too.
No, I know, but women are free to have a pubic hair preference.
Some women don't want to jungle down there.
A lot of guys trim and shave.
The beard thing, it's a fair thing to talk about, like leg hair and the bearded hair.
Because a lot of women don't like a full beard.
They say, oh, it scratches my face.
And jobs say it's unprofessional, same as leg hair, unprofessional.
But there are also some women who say, I really like a beard, I really like a mustache.
So there's that too.
But I'd say overwhelmingly, I think it's, they've probably, I'm sure they've done studies on this.
It's probably majority of women, so over 50%, that do prefer clean-shaven.
But okay, this concept of men being attracted to innocence, it's interesting because then it is that just reinforcing that double standard of like, oh, so men can have sex with a bunch of women because then they're experienced.
But then the woman is innocent.
And it's, I mean, literally, women used to not be able to get married to a man, like when arranged marriages and stuff, if they weren't a virgin, right?
So I'll tell you why.
I'll tell you why, because there's a reason.
No!
No, there's a reason.
Now, listen, I know those days are gone.
No, you ask most men.
They're certainly not expecting women to be virgins in this day and age.
Absolutely not.
That's done.
That's over with.
Maybe unless you're very religious, you're Christian, Muslim, et cetera.
But there are reasons for reasons intellectually, and then there's also biological and evolutionary reasons why men prefer women with a lower body count.
Okay, okay.
I can go into it.
So, and would you guys agree that men and women are attracted to different things?
That is so, I feel, it's like a heteronormative statement, right?
Well, but okay, let's speak within the confines of heteronormative.
I don't know why we would have to do that, though, because like so much, like there's such a spectrum of sexuality.
It's not black and black, black, and black.
Well, it's certainly clear that a man who's attracted to men, a gay man, what he's attracted to in the partner is certainly different than, or could be different, than what a man is attracted to in a woman.
Right.
And there are men who are attracted to men and women, or men.
But there's bisexual men.
There's women, but a few men.
Like, there's so many options.
I'm not saying that these people, that that doesn't exist, but I think, you know, we are, broadly speaking, about the vast majority of people are heterosexual.
And so that's kind of what we're talking about.
I mean, we can go into the nuance of men dating men.
We can talk about bears and cubs.
I don't know what the twinks and all that.
We can talk about those dynamics.
There's all those dynamics in the gay community.
We can talk about lesbian couples.
I mean, there's a lot of nuance, but for this, we are generally sticking to just heterosexual discussions.
The question is, are men and women attracted to different things?
So are men and yes.
Are men and women attracted to the same things or are they attracted to different things?
So is attraction symmetrical?
In other words, are the physical characteristics and are the personality traits that you find attractive in men, do men find those same things attractive in women?
And my answer to that would be no, but I want to open it up to the panel and see your take.
So Samantha, why don't we start with you?
Are they attracted to different things?
Are men and women attracted to the same things?
I think everyone is attracted to different things.
I think not one person could say the same thing as the next.
So I can't answer the question because there's no right way to answer that.
There's like, I don't know.
Well, everyone has their own preferences, sure.
Yeah, like my preferences are 100% different than yours.
But they also could vary from yours or yours.
Whether I was interested in a man or a woman or whatever it was, my preferences would still probably differ from someone else's in some sort of way.
But we can look broadly speaking at certain things.
Like you could say, for example, broadly speaking, women like men who are taller than them.
I don't think that's a necessarily controversial statement.
I think if you line up.
So I guess if we're saying like, okay, yeah, a guy would want maybe a girl, like most men would say they want a girl who's shorter than them.
I think actually most men would not care.
Or most men would not care, even though I, and I don't even care about height.
But if that's, I guess, what you're trying to imply, then.
Let me ask a different question.
Would you date a guy who's smaller than you, size-wise?
No, no, like skinnier than me?
No, I don't think so.
And that's just because of my preference.
But there could be someone else who would say yes.
And that's where.
But the exception doesn't make the rule.
If you ask most women, most women are probably going to say, I want a guy who's taller than me.
And I would, this is not often a common one, but I'd want a guy who was physically bigger than me.
I mean, that's definitely true, but.
That's definitely true, but...
Okay, we could talk about personality traits, too, I think.
I mean...
You asked...
Go ahead.
That's definitely true, but like I said, maybe another girl, maybe, okay, even if only 30% of women would date a guy who is physically smaller than them, that 30%, that definitely still counts.
So, I mean, literally, I get, no.
The question simply, do men and women like different things, or do they like the same things?
And I want to make it clear, like, I'm speaking in generalities here.
It's clear that there's people have different preferences, different orientations.
So certainly there's women who don't care about height.
But if you lined up, say, 100 women and you asked all of them, hey, would you rather date a guy who's taller than you?
Probably 95% of them are going to say yes.
Okay, and a broad, like generally speaking, men and women do like different things.
Right.
I guess.
I feel like women are more emotionally driven and men tend to be more physically driven.
Yeah.
Very broad statement.
But that's just, I feel like women have more emotional needs innately and men have more physical needs.
But when in a relationship, you know, you have one goal of love.
Of love.
That's just where I'm going to take that.
Sure.
Do you want to come in on this?
I agree with like everything she said.
Sure.
And her, like, they all have different preferences.
Yeah.
I feel complete.
Yeah.
Okay.
So I'm trying to recall.
Oh, we were talking about like body count and that sort of thing, innocence and stuff.
And so I think for, again, we're speaking generally, broadly.
I think, I do think most men, most women, they're like, I don't want to date a person that's just run through a bunch of people.
But I do think men have a greater stake or greater desire in wanting a partner that has a low body count.
Because men value, again, generally, broadly speaking, you ask most men, most men are going to tell you they value sexual purity.
Now, the days of, again, unless you're highly religious, the days of, you know, girl being a virgin, that's, you know, that's pretty much gone.
And that's fine.
Most men accept that.
I love her face.
Some men valuing sexual purity.
Is that odd?
Is that unusual?
It just reinforces.
If we go back to the patriarchy, we won't go there.
But I just feel that it reinforces, yeah, like this misogynistic concept.
But that's...
That's not misogynistic.
Not misogynistic.
I don't want to go to patriarchy, but it reinforces this patriarchal dominance over women where it's like men can go and do their thing, live their life, but like I need a pure woman that's like small.
And it's this thing of like my women.
But that's what men are attracted to.
That is, I don't know.
But that doesn't change the woman.
Okay, let me ask a question.
Men, it's like, I don't know that that's true necessarily.
That's what men are attracted to.
We can ask the chat.
Chat.
One in the chat, if you'd rather, if you prefer women with a low body count.
One in the chat.
Two in, two in the chat.
Just one in the chat if you'd prefer a woman with a low body count.
It's going to take us a while to see it.
But I mean, okay, you ask.
Look, you ask most men.
You ask most men.
No guy is going to say, gee, I really wish my girlfriend had slept with more men before she met me.
Maybe.
No guy.
But I have more experience.
No guy.
No. guy is going to say, I really wish I fucked more guy.
This is such a biased chat.
And I actually haven't heard this question.
I think it's been literally, I haven't even heard this concept in 10 years.
10 years.
Or maybe like literally, it's been not 10 years.
It's been all long.
The concept of a low body count.
I haven't even thought about something like that in so long.
Like I said, who cares?
And every guy that I've met in the past, like maybe five years is literally, no one's even asking me something like that because I'm not going to share that with them.
If they're liking me, they're liking me for what I am right now.
That has nothing to do with it.
And guess what?
Like, I wouldn't respect them either.
So, yes.
It's such a weird, I mean, I'm literally like, who, like, I don't care.
I'm not asking them how many women they've slept with.
So you don't care?
No, it's like, it's a personal thing for me and who I choose to have sex with, but that other person, like, it's actually like none of their personality.
The past is the past.
No, whether I've slept with two people, five people, ten people, like that, they might not even ever even know that.
Because a lot of, like, my last boyfriend, he would never ask me that in a million years.
Never.
It's not so much, I don't think a lot of guys are going to overtly just be like, hey, how many?
I mean, if we could go around the table, but most guys aren't going to overtly ask you that, but it's more so just like, if, say, it's within a friend group, it's like reputational.
Like, I don't know, guys don't want to marry the town bicycle.
There, I said, I said it.
I said it.
I feel like it used to be the other way around.
The other way around.
Or at least when, because I agree that we, I feel like we're evolving beyond this being a thing.
And we're kind of like the concept of women being sexually pure based on their body count.
Because our sexuality is pure no matter what.
No matter how many people you've slept with, there's still an energy of purity there because it's sacred.
And I feel like we're evolving beyond this concept.
To just like, you know, continue it.
It's perpetuating like a cycle that is unhealthy, I feel.
But this concept, what was the last thing that you said?
Because there was a little point there.
Body count.
Body count.
Okay, so there was something there.
So I would say that in the first off, everyone's free to have their own preferences.
Some guys might not care.
That's totally fine.
Some guys do care about it.
And there's certainly women that they also would care.
And I don't think it would be wrong for a woman to say, I don't want a guy that's a player.
I don't want a guy that slept with a lot of men.
I do think it's a bit different, again, because there's a few different reasons which I'm about to go into.
But I can tell you a little bit as to why men do value sexual purity.
So there's.
Oh, that's okay.
By the way, Samantha, we're just having the debate.
It's totally okay if you disagree.
I don't feel anything.
I guess I just don't care to know.
I guess.
I don't know.
I just don't care to know.
Like, I really don't.
Sure.
So I'll try to just explain to guys, like, how a lot of guys feel on this.
And so there's a few things.
So there's two biological evolutionary.
Well, well, okay, that's for a different thing.
There's one.
So it's an innate instinctual thing for men.
And that's because as a woman, if you get pregnant, you know for a fact that child is yours.
But for men, if a woman has slept with other men, you cannot guarantee paternity.
If she's promiscuous, you cannot guarantee paternity.
Now, I know in the past, you know, in the past 40 years, we've figured out through DNA we can do paternity tests, but that doesn't undo hundreds of thousands of years of evolution and biology.
And so men, if the woman is promiscuous, if she's sleeping with a lot of men, you cannot know who the father is.
So that's a big thing.
And that's evolutionary.
That's hardwiring.
So men can't just turn that off.
But most men don't have sex to procreate at a young person.
But it's not an intellectual thing, that thing.
It's a biological thing.
So we know we're not trying to get a woman pregnant, but it's in our biology, in our evolution.
I see what you're saying.
I see.
I hear you.
Okay.
It makes sense.
And I think that also, like, speaking to that, I think there's another layer that's not being explored.
If a man is to use that to say, this is why I want them to have a low body count, but it's okay if my body count is high.
I think there's some fear of women's sexual power that's going on.
And if someone has like a higher body count, it's like, oh, she must be engaging with all these people.
And that's scary.
And to just say, like, oh, it's because of my biological evolutionary, et cetera, it feels like there's a way out of it.
That's one reason.
I'll give you some more reasons.
So the other thing is, is that if someone is promiscuous and has slept with a lot of people, and I don't know why this doesn't come up more often in this discussion and this debate, is sexually transmitted diseases, the more partners you've had, the higher likelihood that you have an STD, whether incurable or curable.
I don't think it's insecure or anything for someone to be like, hmm, this person's kind of promiscuous.
They've slept with a lot of people.
There's a chance that they might have an STD.
And some STDs there, you can be asymptomatic.
Some you don't know until you, you know, you depends on which one, but you might not know down the road, but you could still be contagious.
So, I mean, just from the STD angle, if someone is promiscuous and sleeps with a lot of people, you're at a higher risk for STDs.
Does anyone here want an STD?
An STI, I think I is like semantics.
No, and I think it, but that one goes both ways, you know, like between men and women.
Of course.
And that's what I'm saying.
Of course, women can certainly say he slept.
That's why getting tested is so important and then talking about it openly.
Sure, but I mean, let's be honest, like, a lot of people, have you been tested after every single partner you've ever had and had a thorough, by the way, most people, full panel, like most people, they'll do gonorrhea, chlamydia, HIV.
Honestly, there's not, I think for HPV herpes, like the tests aren't even that good.
I don't really know.
That shit could show up down the road.
So I think the STD one is a big one too.
That's fair.
For both men and women.
And if you're clear, then it's common sense.
Like, if someone slept with 100 people, if you had to place a bet, the person that slept with 100 people is probably more likely to have an STD or have had an STD.
And if you know they're sleeping around with other people, more likely to have an STD.
So that's a big one.
For both men and women.
I don't.
There's that.
It's valid.
For both men and women, yeah.
I mean, I wouldn't fault a woman if she was like, whoa, okay, that guy's a player.
He's probably got.
Apparently in Isla Vista, there's like a special strain of gonorrhea going around.
Oh, no.
That's to this specific region.
So, yeah, well, okay, so I guess I'll ask this question.
Should body count matter?
Samantha?
No.
Nope.
Okay, so it shouldn't matter.
So whether you're a girl or a guy, that isn't a reasonable parameter for wanting to date or not date a partner.
So you would take, you say body count shouldn't matter.
So you would take quarrel then with a guy who said, hey, I really would like a girl who hasn't slept with a lot of guys, you know, maybe less than five, less than ten, you know.
You would take quarrel with that.
Sorry, what does quarrel mean?
Take issue.
Take issue with.
Let me see.
Yeah, if he says, I prefer that you sleep with less than five men.
I prefer to date a girl who slept with less men.
Sorry.
Yeah, yeah, okay.
I mean, I would have to understand their reasoning for that.
If it's STDs, then I'd be like, okay, cool, let's both get tested and then continue on.
Like, there's a solution to that, you know?
It's about communication.
Okay.
You know?
Sure.
Oh, but it's okay.
So consensus for the table, excluding me, I guess.
Body count should not matter.
Consensus.
Okay.
So follow-up question.
Starting with Samantha.
By the way, do you prefer Sammy or Samantha?
Literally, it's, I get both.
So whichever.
Sammy?
Okay, Sammy.
What's your body count?
No comments.
Well, hold on.
I don't know if he's watching this.
Hold on.
But wait, I thought we just said that body count doesn't matter.
Well, we don't want our mommies to know.
I know.
Mom!
Sammy's mom.
Gertrude.
Turn off the stream.
No, anyone that.
Oh.
But if you're saying, okay, I feel like you have to apply.
Not even that it's bad.
Can I interject?
But you have to apply logical consistency.
If you're going to say that body count shouldn't matter.
No, because it doesn't.
I don't think it's a good idea.
But so what's your body count then?
Can I interject?
I think body count doesn't matter when you're in an intimate setting and you're discussing it with someone.
It's very different publicly saying it online in front of hundreds of people than disclosing it with your partner in that sense.
Well, I see.
Because that's just because we're seeing these comments.
We're being judged for looking in different directions.
YouTube is the chat's going to be chat.
That's my point exactly.
Okay.
So omit.
Yeah.
No answer.
Okay.
It doesn't even matter.
Because it wouldn't matter.
Like this isn't my boyfriend or like my future husband's not here.
But I guess I'm saying be the change you want to see in the world.
But okay, you don't want to answer?
That's totally fine.
Anna?
What's your body count?
Fading.
I feel very tired.
Yeah, we're going to wrap up here in just a few minutes.
And I don't know.
I think about 30, if I count like three ways, et cetera, and everyone I've ever slept with.
Okay.
Two.
Yeah, you're, she said it.
It's a personal thing for me.
So I only disclose it with those I'm fair.
So, okay, body count doesn't matter.
Okay.
But kind of does.
Maybe a little bit.
Okay.
It's under 10.
I just, it doesn't even like.
How about?
But even then, even me saying it's under 10, why do I need to say that?
You know?
it's within the context of the conversation what I get it but like right why is it a thing at all Right.
Yeah, like we're saying it doesn't matter in which why are people asking why people shouldn't be asking?
Why is it like a, yeah.
But it doesn't matter.
Because I feel like once we give that information, we're kind of put into a box.
Like you said, judging people is innate.
Like it's a human reflex.
Like we can't help it.
And especially for women, you know.
Like the comments, 30 times 3 equals 90.
just funny you know it's like what's that What did he say?
30 times 30.
Oh, he's doing the whole.
Hold on.
I got a little something for you here.
Multiply it by 3, and that's the real number.
Apparently, that's the saying.
Exactly.
And I guess it's, I think for guys, you divide by 3.
Who knows?
Okay.
Like, if it doesn't matter, say it.
I feel like what we've been talking about is like it doesn't matter in the context of a relationship or between you and your, the person that you're having sexual relations with.
You know, it's not something you want to project to the world.
It's a very intimate subject.
Fair enough.
Fair enough.
I like this.
So I'm going to just read a couple super chats.
Let's eat one.
We'll wrap up here pretty soon.
Does anybody smell weed?
I do.
I do.
Yeah, just weed just wafting in here.
I don't know.
It's just like the constant smell of Isla Vista.
Aerosols.
And LA, just say, yes.
Yeah.
Let's see.
Oh, yeah.
It's my gym weed.
Okay, so we got some super chats here.
Thanks, console logger.
Celery with the $5.
Is that Zane from One Direction as his profile photo?
No, me.
Okay, Celery.
Never mind.
It's not.
It's like Walmart version.
Yeah, Walmart Zane.
Hold on.
Go on.
Sorry.
Celery with the $5 super chat.
Thank you for the support, man.
Appreciate it.
What about men who wear shoe lifts to make themselves taller?
Is this lying?
Women use makeup and push-up bras, so how is this any different?
By the way, Celery, sorry if you sent this a while ago and you were, it was contextual to something that was going on in the conversation before.
We're just catching up on super chats.
By the way, we're about to end the show pretty soon here, guys.
So if you want, get some super chats in while we're reading them.
So, okay, what about men who wear shoe lifts to make themselves taller?
Did we really talk?
I don't think we talked really about makeup and all that, though.
I mean, same as facial hair.
If that's going to make you feel good about yourself, go for it.
Yeah, and I have that same thing.
If it's going to make you more confident, why not?
Men wear shoelifts.
There's a lot of things that men do to make themselves confident, just the same as a woman.
What about men?
So I want to see if I want to take a crack at this question.
Well, yeah, I mean, if you're misrepresenting your height, I would say that that's lying.
But, I mean, then you have to take that to its logical conclusion.
If that's lying, then I suppose makeup and push-up bras and what are those booty short things with the pads.
I suppose that's lying too.
So.
Is it lying, though, if you said, this is my natural, this is my normal height, and then you wear shoe lifts?
Like, oh, they're up front.
They're just like.
If you're like, oh, are you actually.
I'm 5'5, but I'm actually, you know, these lifts make me 5'9.
As long as they disclose before.
No, like, you don't, I'm just saying, like, if they just wear them, you know, they're not saying anything.
This is my height, you know?
That's like with girls.
Like, if I put mascara and contour, I'm like, yeah, these are my natural lashes.
And they're not.
That's lying.
But if I'm just wearing makeup, I'm just wearing makeup.
That's all it is.
Wait, but okay.
Yeah.
I mean, let's say a guy was wearing a hat.
Never took that hat off.
But he takes a hat off and he's bald.
It's kind of an omission.
You know?
Or the same thing with height.
You're like, oh, you were taller, but you're just capping.
I would start to get curious about the hat if you never took it off.
You would know.
I would know.
You would know, guys.
That's a common hide.
Well, thank you for the $5 super chat, Celery.
Much appreciated.
No bullspit.
$5 donut.
Thank you, man.
Appreciate it.
If the man is down and eating the bedonka donk, does that increase his out of 10 rating?
Okay, girl, so we'll go around the table with this.
Yeah, yeah.
100%.
So eating ass.
Oh, that's the bedonka bedonka.
Bedonka donk.
Oh, a bedonka donk is a woman with a fat ass.
Like a big ass, that's a bedonka.
How do you know these terms?
I mean, you know.
I've got friends, we speak.
Right.
So eating ass.
I mean, whether.
Sure.
So it'll be a little bit more.
Give some bonus points.
Yeah, sure.
Sure.
Yeah.
I just don't see how I would get pleasure from that.
Yeah.
Have you experienced?
Have you?
Have you done it?
Have you had your ass eaten by a woman?
Or?
They requested.
Oh.
Sometimes I have friends that are huge into that.
It was.
It was okay.
I wouldn't ask for it, but they were like, I want to do it.
I was like, try this shit once.
I mean, yeah, I mean, but to me, that's just not, you know, appealing for me personally.
I know people that like to do it, people that do it to each their own, go for it, love it.
Not for me.
So that wouldn't increase or decrease anything.
I just wouldn't feel anything.
Eating the bedonka donk.
Reminds me of the Chappelle show bit.
Anyways, okay.
Salad City Rebel, I believe this is Brandon.
What's up, Brandon?
I don't know if you're still watching, but thank you for the $5 super chat, man.
Dude, thank you, man.
Really appreciate it.
I see your Salinas icon there.
By the way, for those watching, this is Brandon.
I did an interview with him.
He was the ex-convict, ex-gang member.
Really good interview.
We're going to get Brandon back on.
He's actually going to come on one of the dating shows, so he can give his take.
But practice makes perfect.
Everyone prefers an experienced partner.
100, Brandon the Rebel.
Okay.
Oh, yeah, it's just a SIG.
So, okay, I mean, he sides with you guys.
Everyone prefers an experienced partner.
Brandon, I got love for you.
No disrespect.
I disagree with you respectfully.
And also, I would say to that, Brandon, that a woman who's only been with one or two partners, those very well could have been long-term relationships, and she may very well be more sexually experienced than a girl who's been with 30 guys, but they've all been one-night stands, you know?
So I don't think body count necessarily would dictate someone's skills in the bedroom.
So for both men and women, you know, if a guy's just had a bunch of one-night stands, doesn't necessarily mean he's going to be good in bed versus a guy who's had one girlfriend, but he was killer in the bedroom, you know?
So, but thank you, Brandon, for the super chat.
Much appreciated.
Let's get you back on the show.
Console logger with the $5 super chat.
Just want to say thanks to the girls for taking the time to come on here.
Can't imagine it's fun having a group of dudes scrutinize you.
So props.
Hey, you know, I do also want to give props to the panel.
I, you know, it's tough.
The comments can be brutal towards me, towards the panel.
And we had a, I think, a heated discussion.
I think it was good, though.
I think it was good.
I think I was kind of intentionally trying to, you know, poke them in the side a little bit with a couple things.
But, no, they gave some very had some very good takes, and I'm glad that they, you know, had some things to say.
Oh, God, this guy.
Mike Davis, bruv.
Okay.
Mike Davis, $5 super chat.
This guy's a hater.
He was in our last chat donating, talking shit.
Brian, time to wrap up.
These girls are going to request overtime pay, eating up your donos.
It is what it is, man.
Mike Davis, thank you for the $5 super chat.
Mike Davis.
Mike Davis.
Bruv.
Okay.
Anyways, I am tired.
So before we wrap up, I want to open it up to the panel to you guys.
If you have a question either for me, a final thought, you have a question for someone else on the panel.
I want to give you guys an opportunity, final thought or question.
Start with over here.
Oh, me?
Yeah, I do.
Well, first of all, I think polygamy is super interesting.
And I'd like to hear your take on how it is like sharing a partner, like knowingly.
Like you said, you were dating someone who's also dating five other people.
Do you ever feel feelings of jealousy or competitiveness when you're in that situation?
Yes, I do.
Thanks for asking the question.
And polyamory is usually the term that I like to use, like rather than polygamy, because it just, yeah, it's the open, open love, open relating, or even just open relating, because polyamory can have a specific connotation.
And yeah, I'd say that feelings of jealousy and like comparison can come up really strongly.
And they come up more strongly for me when I don't know the other people because then it's like all in the mystery for me.
Yeah.
But when I can have a sense of like intimacy and feeling the other women as sisters or other men, if I'm dating a woman who's dating other men too, then I can like feel the sense of like, oh, okay, we're all love the same being and we're praying to this source of our pleasure and our power together.
Then it helps me kind of soothe the inner child that feels like the abandonment stuff and the jealousy.
And jealousy is an interesting one too because I feel like it's a conglomeration of like 10 different emotions.
There's like desire and there's fear and there's anger and there's longing and shame and rage.
There's like all these emotions together.
So when I can break them down one by one and then be with a partner that like can hold space for that, then it helps soothe me.
Yeah, and I'm constantly navigating that too of how to like feel secure.
And when I have that like healthy attachment with someone, then I feel less jealousy because we're like communicating.
Communication is everything.
Yeah, okay.
Nice.
Thanks for sharing.
Thank you for asking.
Oh my gosh.
Final solder question.
I just want to clarify because yes, I only have two bodies, but you were like, that doesn't make me a player.
Not saying I'm a player, but like when I play together.
Just a minute.
You're a player.
Okay.
No, no, I don't know.
Go ahead.
I was just going to say, you can talk to a lot of people, but I don't have sex with all of them.
Do you know what I mean?
That's why my body counts only two.
Did you say you have high standards?
Yeah, I have extremely high standards.
Just curious, what are your high standards?
I don't want to put why.
Like, height?
Height's a big one for.
I know we were maybe joking about that, but six feet and above.
Probably and then you're I just want them to have like good morals Like, as long as we view things the same way.
And even if we don't, as long as we can, like, talk it out and understand each other.
I feel like that's a key point.
Like, the last guy I talked to, I didn't have sex with him, but like we still not dated.
Like, I talked to him, you know?
And like how we were saying earlier, he probably has a lot of bodies because he's more of a high-profile person.
I feel like body.
High-profile.
Or like.
Person.
Not like high-profile.
Blue check.
Yeah, he like.
Wait, blue check.
How much should I say?
I mean, don't say his name, but like.
No, yeah, I'm not going to say his name.
Yeah, he just got drafted this.
To NFL?
NBA.
NBA?
Yeah, and.
Bruv.
Okay.
And like, he.
Wait, and you turned him down?
Kind of.
I just, I also figured that he was sleeping with a lot of people.
And he was only here for like a short period of time.
So, like.
Oh, yeah, because UCSB has some like basketball camp or something.
It's like P3.
There's a training center in Santa Barbara.
Okay.
But he got drafted.
Can we say the team?
No.
Okay.
But he was top 10.
He was digging.
Top 10.
Top 10 draft pick.
Yes.
But so.
Wait, hold on.
But so.
No, it's not exposed to me.
Wait!
Internet sleuths.
No, no one, no.
Okay, but the cameras.
Mike Davis.
Okay.
You're not getting it with anyone.
I have friends who are in the NBA already.
Like, Mike Davis, girl.
Dude, wait, so okay, you're a guy you were seeing.
Not like seeing.
I was like talking to him.
Like, I wouldn't say we were dating.
Okay.
But like when we went out like downtown, he would get like free shit and he would just give it.
Bottle service?
Not a bottle service, but like they'd just get like free stuff and like clout.
I don't know.
But yeah.
Okay, this is my question.
Do you guys have a- You're a BA player, by the way.
Maybe that's something.
I have friends who are already in it.
Like, it's not that big a deal.
All right, go ahead.
Well, my question was: do you guys also think that dating is only when they take you out on dates?
No.
But you would talk to them and you would classify that as dating?
Even when someone takes me out on a date, are we even dating?
Yeah, like I just went on a date, but I wouldn't say I was dating him.
Yeah, I wouldn't say I'm dating him.
Yeah, for sure.
I think it has to be, I'm very keen on it having to be like.
Clippers?
Is it the Clippers?
No.
Some guy in the chat says.
Just visited Santa Barbara.
And this guy says, I turned down Brad Pitt and Henry Cavill.
What?
I don't get it.
He's saying that you're saying your standards.
Okay, you guys can believe what you want.
I don't know.
Wow.
Damn.
Okay, so, wait, so what was the.
Well, like, earlier when we were talking about what do you classify as dating, I feel like you have to be talking to them for a certain period of time and then they actively take you out on dates.
Like, that's my definition.
But I was just wondering what their score is.
Okay.
Basketball player folks, basketball, NBA top 10 draft pick.
Wow.
You should have jumped on that.
Not like in a sexual sense, but like tall.
You mentioned you have high standards.
What are some more of your.
Okay, I just like.
Yeah, just like morals.
Like I need to talk to them about things and see what their reaction would be, and that would tell me like what type of person they are, you know?
Sure.
And like, I hate small talk.
Like, I feel like we need to talk about like deeper things.
Deeper things?
Like, in life.
I don't know.
That's just me, though.
Like, okay.
What's like an example of a deep topic?
Like, I like asking them, like.
Astrology?
Don't say astrology, please.
Okay, I am an astrology girl, but I don't do that.
I would say like I would ask them what's something that they've carried into their adulthood from their childhood.
Like, I just want to know those things, you know?
Like, what makes them that type of person?
I just want to get to know the nitty-gritty details.
I don't know.
Okay.
Got it.
Okay.
Final thought or question?
I feel like I'm ready for my time boundaries to be respected and really close up because it feels late.
Yeah, yeah, we'll close up.
And then the final thought.
Yeah, I feel like there's been a lot of topics we've touched that have felt like challenging and not maybe reaching the depth that we desire.
And I just hope we can all in the dating scene in this day and age really remember to come back to our breath and our body and what we're really in search of when we're reaching out to seek a partner.
Sammy?
Final thought or question?
What's his name?
Console Logger.
Yeah, console logger.
It's a lot of constants longer.
That's all I have to say.
That's it.
Wait, can I say something about the astrology thing?
I don't think astrology is a red flag.
It's like the psychology behind people just hate on women when they enjoy things.
Behind the astrology is what makes them.
Hold on, hold on.
Wait, repeat that?
People just hate on men, especially hate on women for just enjoying things.
Yeah, it's like you like the psychology behind it.
Wait, how men can do astrology too, though?
So I don't, I'm not.
How does hating astrology have to relate to hating women?
The amount of times when I've asked a male his birthday, he's like, oh, you're not one of those astrology girls, are you?
So that's all I have to say about that.
Just last thing, show of hands.
Who here is into astrology?
I like reading.
I think it's fun to read.
I don't know too much about it, but I think it's cool.
You see how far the term lights have spread.
Yeah, I don't know a lot about that, but I think it's fun.
Okay, we'll leave it there.
We'll leave it there.
Thank you guys for tuning in tonight.
You could have been doing anything else, but you're here with me.
I appreciate that.
We will be live again Thursday at 7 p.m. Pacific time.
Hawaii guys show.
Mike Davis, thank you for the super chat.
Oh, last question for the chat.
Mike Davis likes to send super chats, but I'm like, he's trolling.
Don't show that one.
We're not.
Sorry.
I mean, you can show it, but we're wrapping up.
Just show it, fine.
Okay, one in the chat.
Mike Davis is clearly a troll.
He just wants to talk shit.
Like, what do you guys think in the chat?
Like, should I let him engage with his super chats or not?
Let me know.
Okay, so, and then thank you, JJ Son, for the Canadian $2, Merci Bucou.
I don't know if you're from the French-speaking part of Canada.
We will be live again Thursday at 7 p.m.
Want to thank the panel for coming.
It was great.
Appreciate the debate.
But yeah, thank you guys for tuning in, and we will see you next time.