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Jan. 12, 2026 - Viva & Barnes
01:09:14
Live with Max Blumenthal - Trump's Action in Venezuela to Iran Chaos - What Comes Next? Viva & Barnes

Max Blumenthal is an American investigative journalist, author, filmmaker, and editor-in-chief of The Grayzone, known for his books critiquing U.S. foreign policy, conservatism, and Israeli policies, including bestsellers like Republican Gomorrah and Goliath: Life and Loathing in Greater Israel.Show more https://x.com/MaxBlumenthal Show less

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I don't want to talk to anyone about Trump, but I want to talk to you.
I'm against it.
But if you want to have a problem with the Lajanzara, the Sehianists, and the Saktouras, you can have a problem with anything.
But if you want to be here, don't worry too much.
I'm going to put this on pause and just give a little warning for those who are listening on podcast.
And obviously, unless you speak Farsi, you're probably unable to understand anything.
This is a post from Max Blumenthal on X. Max is going to be coming on in a matter of minutes to talk about Venezuela, to talk about what's going on in Iran, depending on how much we can get into.
And it's basically, I'm going to ask him about this because I Where you don't know who you're watching on the internet, you don't know on which end are these government actors or propagandists, and these are basically Iranian protesters ostensibly saying bad things about Trump and suggesting, I guess, I don't know, some American support for a revolution that the Iranian people do not want.
And because I see Max Blumenthal in the backdrop, and we don't have too much time, I'm not going to waste much more time with an introduction.
Max Blumenthal, if you don't know him, Grey Zone.
I'll make the joke before he gets on, and I'm going to make it when he gets on.
The far left and the far right end up meeting right back around the other side in terms of policies on geopolitics.
We're going to get into it.
I'll bring Barnes into the house, and I'm going to bring Max in.
Sir, Max, how goes the battle?
Tiring.
Exhausting.
I was going to give you the intro or try to do a 30,000-foot overview, but maybe you'll be better off doing it for yourself.
Tell it to our viewers.
I think our viewers are going to know who you are.
Some of them might have some preconceived notions as to who you are, but let them know who you are and what you're up to. Judge me by my works, but I'm the editor of The Gray Zone, and we are a nonpartisan site that focuses on telling you what you're not supposed to know about geopolitics in the world from an American anti-imperialist perspective. And yeah,
as you were saying, there are points where the left and right can meet around our reporting. I do more come from the Left-wing milieu of U.S. politics, but we have a lot of people from the libertarian world and the maybe self-described American nationalists who have found value in our reporting. And so we just try to report the truth as we see it. Yeah,
Max, I know his father back in the day, Sidney Blumenthal. Max's politics is a little bit different than his dad's, but his wife also wrote a great book on Venezuela. It was very helpful when all the election stuff was going on,
about giving me some feedback when I was trying to figure out what the heck was going on down there. But also coming from sort of a left anti-imperial, anti-empire perspective. So for those that are the American populist right, that America should be a republic, not an empire. We share a good bit in common. But also giving a counter information,
counter the official governmental narrative and the media narrative on topics like Venezuela, Iran, Israel, Ukraine, you name it. Venezuela, Max has good insight on what that Maduro trial might look like from a factual perspective. Who is this witness, the ex-spy chief of Venezuela that the U.S. government may be relying on, and why his credibility might not be the best,
and why the prediction markets are predicting that Maduro will get acquitted of at least some charges. There may be good grounds to believe that. This is not Noriega Part 2. Also into Hungary, good report by the Grey Zone has just recently disclosed that basically the EU, once again, is out to rig elections in Europe and try to defeat Viktor Orban, whose Hungarian elections is coming up this year. And then in Iran, where the PSYOPs just continue to be on full display. Last week,
it was Venezuela. People kept cheering, saying that the Venezuelan people are coming to the streets Kidnapping of their leader, and they were showing rallies from other places, other times, all the rest. Even World Cup celebrations somehow got relaundered, and then you get a little AI dancing there. And we got the same thing with Iran. Tried to explain to people for a while that a way to encourage, even if you believe in regime change in Iran,
a way you don't encourage it is to say you'll go and bomb them in favor of the regime change. So we'll get into that and more. Just sort of generally speaking, can you give people a snapshot of what your reporting has found in Hungary about how the EU is, in the name of democracy, is trying to rig another European election? Yeah, Let me actually pull that up because I've been working on a piece about Iran all day.
So I got to refresh my memory.
And you should really have the author of this piece, Kit Klarenberg, on.
He'd make an incredible guest.
And he's done so much reporting also on And speech crackdowns in the UK, where he was actually detained by British counter -terror police on his last trip back to see his family and lives abroad purely for his reporting that he's doing for the GREY ZONE.
This is another incredible report by Kit Klarenberg and it is Someone who's a pretty influential figure, a bureaucrat inside the EU who probably no one has ever heard of, named Martin Benedict, has been plotting and putting forward proposals to topple Orban inside,
using his position as a civil servant in the EU. Hungary is an EU member state. So this is some very subversive activity by Benedict. And as Kit Benedict is a failed politician who comes from the Hungarian center-left,
which has been substantially financed by the regime change empire of Hungarian expat billionaire George Soros. And once he started to fail, he realized, you know, the EU parliament is a place where smaller parties can start to make an impact. And I'm going to use Brussels to try to carry out What I couldn't carry out inside my own country,
Which was a kind of long -term coup against Orban.
And why are they going against Orban?
I mean, there are many reasons why I can see people might oppose Orban from inside Hungary.
But it seems like the main reason is he keeps getting in the way of EU plans to dangle out EU membership to Ukraine and escalate the war.
On Russia via the Ukraine proxy war.
Max, did I bring up the right Martin Benedict? Yeah, let me see. I don't want to dox the wrong Martin Benedict. I don't know how many there could be of that. Yeah, that's him right there. I mean, you know, that's his bio,
so it's not doxing him. No, no, just so long as I got the right Martin. Orban seems to be a bit of a thorn in the side of this proxy war against Russia. What's the plan to fortify the elections that are upcoming? Well,
the interesting thing about this proposal is he's calling for a kind of coordinating forum and then an entity and collective action to get people out in the streets. Kind of color revolution style against any Orban proposal. And they did so in,
I believe, 2022. And then since then, what they've been doing is laundering their program behind amorphous coalition of parties, like politically amorphous coalition of parties that's just purely anti-Orban in order to conceal They're center-left or liberal politics because most Hungarians,
post-Soviet Union, are conservative and they're also opposed to severing relations with Russia. And so it does appear like this plan is succeeding. Orban stands on the verge of suffering a defeat. And this proposal,
this secret proposal, That Kit unearthed here really provides the roadmap for the forces who are seeking to topple Orban. I'm not in line with Orban, by the way, politically on a lot of domestic issues, but it seems clear to me that this is a plot being driven from Brussels against an EU member state, and it really just shows how devious the EU is,
even to its own members. This is interference. Well, that was my sort of follow-up question, or at least an add-on question. Is there any evidence of any, call it deep state, because I don't think it would be coming from J.D. or Trump. Is there any element of American deep state involvement in this, much like what we saw, I don't know,
in Ukraine 2014? There definitely has been, and you've seen that in previous kind of color revolution attempts against Orban, that the National Endowment for Democracy was working with Soros' Open Societies Foundation and USAID to support a lot of the protest groups,
but they always floundered and failed. But now it appears there is a critical Mass against Orban. And with Trump openly supporting Viktor Orban, it's much less likely to see so much U.S. involvement through these cutouts and NGOs. But this is a long program that's been put into place,
as Kit explains here. And I haven't been following Hungary very closely. This is one of the first pieces of reporting we've done on it in some time. And it's because we were able to review and exclusively reveal this very subversive policy proposal,
which should be making waves in Hungary. And we have reported on these kinds of activities throughout Europe, especially in Eastern Europe. We have a recent report on Belarus by Kit. Showing that their de facto opposition leader,
the kind of Juan Guaido of Belarus, has been effectively discredited in her own country, Svetlana Tikhonovskaya, and that she actually was caught taking a substantial bribe from the Belarusian KGB,
showing just how corrupt she is. Taken around to all these international awards ceremonies and treated like she's on the verge of seizing power so she can continue raising more and more money. And no doubt. We mentioned Romania,
in case anyone forgot. The conservative nationalist candidate who was anti-NATO won the election there, Georgescu, and they just voided the results. I had on Kalen after that loss. I had on George Simeon before they fortified it,
you know, democratically against him. People forget, annulled the election results, alleging that he had Russian TikTok farms that, I don't know, influenced his victory. And they ended up stealing it from Simeon in the long run. It's the National Endowment for Not Democracy, which apparently they are going to put a big budget expenditure increase in. Until it was outed by people like Mike Benz. And there's a congressman that's trying to defund it. Who am I? Oh,
yeah! Thomas Massey! The guy people keep telling me is anti-American and do-nothing and all the rest. Speaking of bogus propaganda and regime change coups, before we get to Venezuela, you mentioned you were covering Iran. I don't know how many times I've seen regime change, revolution, there's mass protests in the street, da-da-da-da. And it's usually never translated into that. Usually the protests aren't even about that. My understanding of these protests,
they start as economic protests due to currency issues. So the government's attempt to basically reduce certain subsidies in certain areas. But it was not a, we want to overthrow Iran and have the son of the Shah come back. That bum, even Rudy Giuliani, said that son of the Shah is a joke. But the amount of fake propaganda, maybe we're putting out videos from Canada, putting out videos from the BLM protest,
people from all around them pretending it was what was happening on the streets of Tehran. My understanding is there's been more counter-protest in favor of the government, and then, in fact, the best thing you can do if you wanted to hold up this regime,
to keep it in power, is to have the U.S. government threaten invasions and bombing every other day. Because people tend to respond patriotically, even if they may disagree with their particular government and power in Tehran. But what's your take on what's happened? It looks to me like this is petering out very quickly because of the U.S. threat of intervention has led to those protests diminishing and counter-protests surging in favor of the government,
from what I can tell. But what has your research found so far? Well, based on Iranian sources, last night was the quietest night And as you said,
Robert, they were a response to economic conditions, inflation, and the plummeting value of the rial, which is brought on by U.S. sanctions. U.S. sanctions have destroyed the Iranian economy. So if you're a middle-class, highly educated, young Iranian, you can't go buy a new car now. You're working longer and longer hours for less and less. And then in the markets, the merchants are feeling it the most strongly,
and they wanted some kind of government support. And then you have a reformist president, Pazeshkian, and they don't know which side he stands on. Many of these merchants who started the protests, this is the crazy thing, support the Islamic Republic and are actually what you might consider hardliners. And protests are kind of normal in Iran. So they went out and protested. The government and the leader of Iran, Ayatollah Ali Khamenei,
responded kind of sympathetically to them. And then with lots of people in the street, another element started to come into the equation and completely superseded these protests. And it was a very nihilistic,
violent regime change element, which also did include young people who feel sort of directionless and And they have rioted in cities across Iran and killed, according to the government, And I think these are conservative numbers, at least 100 security officers, police officers.
They've beaten to death unarmed security guards on camera.
I tweeted some of that out.
It's horrible to watch.
Large mobs of masked men just beating people to death who are trying to stop.
They have burned mosques across Tehran and historic mosques throughout the city.
Historic libraries have been burned.
Fire stations have been burned.
Firefighters have been burned alive.
Fire trucks, ambulances, emergency workers, government workers have been abused and killed.
The Shah, the self -proclaimed Shah, or clown, prince Reza Pahlavi, who is kind of like my neighbor here in the Washington DC area. He lives in a mansion over in Potomac. He has actually called for killing government workers in a tweet. So it's not like they're hiding their intent to commit violence, but the US media,
Western media, they're hiding this violence and they're relying on NGOs funded by the National Endowment for Democracy for their death count. Which seems to conflate the total death toll. And I'm not denying the government,
maybe its security forces may be firing on rioters and protesters and killing people. And you have like this official death toll now of 5,000. You have people closer to Trump just going online and saying 20,000 are dead without any sourcing at all because they want to exaggerate the intensity of the riots and protests in order to convince Trump that now's the time. But here's the reality. I mean,
I'll put it in a perspective. I think anyone watching this can understand, regardless of what you think about Iran or me, if you are in the United States or Europe or Canada or wherever, would you tolerate masked gangs doing that in your own cities and beating cops to death and burning down government buildings that you might use to go get your driver's license? Burning down schools,
burning churches. I mean, they're burning mosques in a primarily Muslim country. These are nihilistic elements. And so to the extent that there is government repression and they want to put these protests and riots to an end very quickly because of the pressure of a war from the U.S. and Israel,
to the extent that there is repression, it's a response to riots and our media isn't showing us the level of violence. I don't think any American would support it. I think even most left-wing Americans,
if they saw that kind of violence in their cities, would say, this has to be put to a stop. But you're at a point in Iran where it's aiming to destabilize the entire country to pave way for the U.S. and Israel to bomb the crap out of them. And that's not just me saying that. That's the private CIA contractor known as Stratfor,
which published a January 7th intelligence assessment Declaring, do I have it in front of me? I have it right in front of me. This is the headline: "Protests in Iran provide a window for U.S. and/or Israeli intervention." That is the entire point of these protests. The Mossad has put out a message declaring that we are involved in these protests, That we are helping you.
They're not hiding it at all.
Mike Pompeo, former CIA director, said Mossad is walking alongside these protesters, in the middle of Iranian cities who are clearly militarized.
So to the so the goal of this is to carry on the chaos for as long as possible to get Trump to enter.
That's Israel's goal.
That's the goal of some of these elements who are rioting.
There are other elements who may not know what they're doing and are just feeling hopeless, angry or nihilistic, but that's where it's going.
And to your question Robert, I think We might have seen the last legs of this round of protests and riots.
I pulled up that video just to show you that actually was a woman in, I believe it was Brampton, Ontario. It was a picture in Canada because Iranian women wouldn't dress like that. But you speak of the propaganda or at least the cherry picking or exaggeration of details on one side and the other. And on the one hand, Like, my question to you is, it is normal.
I say normal.
You say the left wouldn't necessarily tolerate that type of violence on the streets.
I might disagree with you.
I might think that, you know, the Summer of Love, depending on where they direct that violence, it would be very welcome against what they feel to be their oppressors.
You know, beating to the death of these...
You mean 68 or BLM, like which?
Well, I mean, I say like elements of the left that would view ICE, for example, the same way that perhaps these Iranians view their torments.
I mean, I say it's not analogous.
But the idea that some might say, let them beat their tormentors in the street.
I mean, that's...
How else do you break free from that regime?
Or how do you break free from that rain?
And I mean, it seems like what you're describing is a problem in terms of the solution.
The Iranian regime is a problem.
Protests overthrowing them would, you know, open the door for Israel or Mossad or America.
if that's the end goal, or at least the opportunistic element of it. What's the solution to what's going on in Iran? If armed uprising is a problem and the regime is a problem. Well,
I don't share this analysis that the regime is a problem to Israel. They're defending their own strategic depth from countries that have tried to destroy them for decades and prior to the Islamic revolution had exploited their oil. After toppling the elected president,
Mossadegh, in 1953 through Operation Ajax. So there's a whole history there. I was in Iran in May. I spoke at a conference called the Asob International Media Festival. I was there completely independently on my own dime. And I got to see the country and travel around. And one thing I saw that anyone can see,
if you just go on YouTube right now and Search for like, you know, shopping mall in Tehran. Search, you know, the real Iran and you'll find tons of videos of people walking around Iran. These are getting really popular on YouTube. And you see like, at least half the women in the streets are not wearing hijab. They've just decided to take it off. And I didn't see anything happening to them or any price for that. I was there with my family too. So my wife wasn't wearing hijab,
except in like official buildings. And that's one of the major grievances relating to freedom in Iran. But these protests don't relate to a specific grievance. So, you know, things will reform inside Iran internally. And there has been, when I was there, actually, the conservative pro-Islamic Republic forces,
some of them were holding little protests. Demanding that the government do more to enforce the hijab because they weren't enforcing it anymore. And it felt like they were kind of on the back foot. Then a month later, Israel attacks out of nowhere, killing commanders, killing nuclear scientists, Mossad cells that had infiltrated deeply inside Iran, carrying out car bomb attacks, civilians were being killed,
And much of the society rallied around the Flag.
And became more nationalistic than ever, including many elements that did not support the Islamic republic but who are Iranian nationalists.
You know, I met many people there who didn't like the Iri but were considered themselves Iranian patriots.
And you're gonna have that effect again if the Us and Israel bombs.
Strat FOUR, in its assessment, said that Israeli or U .s bombing will end the protests For good, and we'll produce massive amounts of Unity.
But, Robert, as you mentioned, there are these large demonstrations in Iran that also are ignored by Western Media.
Over a million people were in the streets of Tehran today, like a substantial percentage of the city's population. And they are supporting the Islamic Republic. And that means that you have a society that, like ours,
is polarized. and for foreign forces to go in and try to just completely remove a government and ignore the fact that a large segment of the population actually supports it and that that government is not just one leader it means you're going to destabilize the entire country and you will Oh,
precisely. If we want a history of regime change, how this tends to work, this solution of military intervention, we can look at what happened to Iraq after we removed Saddam Hussein. Look at what happened to Libya after we removed Gaddafi. Look at what happened to Syria after we removed Assad. I get we invited Mr. King Head Chopper to the White House,
the Oval Office. That's an embarrassment, not a celebration. Look at where Lebanon was. You know, the Paris of the Middle East is now a nightmare to visit. I mean, the Israeli goal is just make these countries weak, But the net effect of it is it makes it chaotic and creates a disaster for the people there and for the and frankly, for the American long term geopolitical interest.
The speaking of just thinking we can go in and everything will be fine.
Of course, we have a long history of doing this in Central and Latin America.
What we've almost always produced is higher drug supply into the United States.
What we've almost always produced.
This is my debate with Vice President Vance.
He's talking about we'll reduce the drug supply by replacing Maduro.
We replaced Noriega and the drug supply out of Panama doubled because that's what those all the oligarchic elites in those countries make their most money from.
So we're shifting to Venezuela.
It looks like we do have some confirmation now that it was a particular I think it was like the new spy chief.
It took over the that is now in jail there that basically sold out and made sure the air defenses didn't work and low into the location.
From what I can tell, I don't trust any of the American media right now because we're going to be doing all kinds of disinformation campaigns about who helped.
who didn't help, whether somebody helped. There's this whole secret weapon stuff that I'm not quite confident. They're trying to say we had a secret weapon and that's how it worked. Not because we bribed somebody When it looks to me like we did, within Venezuela, there was those early talks, mass, mass, mass, everybody was coming out in the streets to overthrow the government. None of it was coming from Venezuela. Once again, the only mass protests were in favor of the government. That was from outside the country. And so what's your take on where, I mean, my biggest, when I was in Washington recently,
tried to communicate this to a range of people in the administration, that the risk of civil war there is very, very high. If we keep meddling and intervening and all the rest. What's the risk of that? How much is it stabilized now? Before we transition into how Maduro actually has an above-average chance of acquittal at trial. Right now, venezuela is stable and you know this was one of the i i i credit where it's due
Marco Rubio and his crew decided not to destabilize Venezuela, and they went ahead with a special forces style operation that aimed to keep the Chavista government, the overall government structure in place, but to get Maduro.
it looks like as kind of a hostage, a negotiating chip, and they succeeded.
They could have tried to install Maria Corina Machado, who is the Nobel Peace Prize winner.
I would call it the Nobel War Prize that was given to her to kind of legitimize regime change in Venezuela.
She's someone that the National Endowment for Democracy USAID, have funded for decades now to be the face and voice of the Venezuelan opposition. She is publicly called not only for the U.S. to invade Venezuela, Libya-style,
but also she issued a letter to Benjamin Netanyahu calling on Israel to invade Venezuela. So that tells you how extreme she is. But she was sidelined. By Trump. I think Trump might have ended her career in his press conference the day after he oversaw this operation by saying she can't lead. And that's because she doesn't have any credibility within the institutions that ensure the stability in Venezuela,
particularly the military. And Delcy Rodriguez is the interim president. I've interviewed her. She does have Who's in the political pantheon of leaders named Diosdado Cabello. The U.S. has indicted him too. But he has the most legitimacy within the military right now. And it's the military and the so-called colectivos,
Which are sort of hardcore supporters of Chavismo who can play a paramilitary role, that are making sure that civil war doesn't take place, that the country That the Venezuelan government has right now, as Trump, proclaims ownership over Venezuela.
I need to acknowledge that my ideological enemies in Washington see what took place in Venezuela as a major victory because, as far as we know, not a single U .S. Soldier was Lost.
I don't think any materiel, any helicopters were downed.
They cruised right in there and did this kind of halo operation that they had been planning for.
Since Hugo Chavez, former Venezuelan president, said they were going to invade in 2005 and they pulled it off very easily, which is a testament to the quality of U.S. electronic warfare, I think,
the ability of the U.S. to knock out communication systems of a military that is, even by its own admission, far weaker than the U.S., and to do a raid in the middle of the capital city. That doesn't mean that they could actually have boots on the ground and be maintaining oil fields. That could lead to a lot of U.S. casualties. But they did that without any casualties. So you didn't have this kind of Black Hawk down effect. And they're claiming,
oh, we have ended Iraq War Syndrome. This is not like Iraq. So maybe we can go into Iran next. And that's sort of the danger of what took place in Venezuela. But the next stage, I think, will be much more difficult for the U.S. politically. They don't have a plan for regime change. Economically, Trump doesn't really have a plan to take the oil. And legally,
as you said, Robert, they may face some serious problems in the courtroom trying to convict Maduro. And I don't necessarily even think he's there to be convicted. Let me ask you one question here. One of the problems is when people see Mossad and Israel Everywhere. They find a place to put it everywhere. Mossad's involvement,
or at least entanglements in Iran, are very well known. There are a number of people who also say that this was a, call it a proxy war, this was for the benefit of Netanyahu, Israel, to swap out or take out Maduro. I still, other than keeping, I don't know, Iran and China out of Venezuela, I don't see how that argument is made. If you could steal, man that, or present the argument as to why people think this was sort of a, for the proxy benefit of Israel, or at their, you know,
for their intentions?
Well, Netanyahu openly welcomed the kidnapping of Nicolas Maduro.
He's not making a secret about his support for regime change.
His Likud party signed a formal cooperation agreement with Maria Karina Machado's Bente party, and that is owed to the pro-Palestine or position of solidarity with Palestine of the Chavista government in Caracas.
The first time I saw Delcy Rodriguez, the acting president, speak, she was wearing a kofia around her neck.
Maduro has worn the kofia and condemned Israel's genocide in Gaza repeatedly.
The Israeli embassy was ejected from Caracas under Hugo Chavez in like 2007.
And the entire opposition the U.S.-backed opposition, is pro-Israel. So it would stand to reason that Israel would have supported this, but the operation to kidnap Maduro was carried out by the U.S., and I think it's really the so-called Don Roe Doctrine,
which is this crude interpretation of the Monroe Doctrine that's really the guiding light, the lodestar of the whole Trump administration here, along with their desire to make as much money as possible. Speaking of the Maduro trial,
the Noriega trial, which had a lot of legal questions in terms of Whether or not you can circumvent the extradition treaty by just going and kidnapping someone, that has been litigated in a range of contexts, but also the head of state prosecution,
where the head of state immunity applies. Those, I'm sure, will come up in Maduro's case here. The Supreme Court did not rule on Noriega's case, only the 11th Circuit did. Bill Barr and Robert Mueller were two of the people who helped rig that case. Anybody who's studied the history of it knows that they prevented Noriega from presenting his defense, Which that he was working for us all that time.
So the uh which he was, as it ultimately came out, Poppy Bush was telling everybody, you know, don't listen to anything that says that's all disinformation.
All the rest, everybody knew it was the case.
But putting that aside, in this case, when i've looked at, I mean a couple of things.
One is that leftist governments generally don't engage in the drug trade or because drug cartels are a potential threat to their power.
So if you think of them as statist or communist or whatever, generally you don't.
You know Cuba has it's a major reduction in drug supply to the?
Cuba saw a major reduction in drug supply to the U.S. after the Castro brothers took control.
U.s.
After uh, the Castro Brothers took control.
The Soviet Union was not a big source of drug supply into the United States.
The Soviet Union was not a big source of drug supply into the United States.
When Afghanistan was under communist control, it had a lot less, and just like it does now with the Taliban.
95% of the heroin that used to come in from Afghanistan is gone as soon as the CIA is out of the country.
So there's a long history of drug involvement and all that, but I think in terms of the CIA and the rest, two parts of that, before we get into the actual trial, I never really bought the accusations and allegations that Maduro was the head of a secret cartel that was really the old CIA cartel.
They just named him because they had a little son on their uniform.
It was a classic CIA cartel.
but, you know, half-assed names like Cartel of the Sun. But from all the evidence I saw from global reports, there was no massive increase in drug supply from Venezuela under either Hugo Chavez or Nicolo Maduro. There's lots of reasons for leftist governments to not want powerful drug cartels operating that could undermine and sabotage and destroy their government at any given moment,
just as a matter of control and power. The, and so in general, I thought the allegations were bogus. Well, now they've removed all the cartel allegations overnight after they got him back here. But in general,
is there a lot of evidence that the Venezuelan government, beyond the normal corruption that always occurs in government, including our own U.S. government concerning drugs, is there any evidence that there was some huge increase and that he was really a big drug dealer in general? And then before we get into the The fact that the government is relying on a notorious liar as its main witness. Well,
the evidence is basically that Venezuela borders Colombia, which is one of the major production sites of coca and the trafficking of cocaine. And there are cartels. Some of the major historical cartels have come out of Colombia. But the major shipping routes to the United States,
Come from the Pacific. And you know what's a really fascinating exercise to do is go to the Wikipedia page for U.S. strikes on alleged drug boats throughout. I think it started in early September. The first one was that double tap strike on September 2nd,
where Pete Hegseth won't release the footage. All the way through December, they basically stopped striking boats on November off the Venezuelan coast and we're focused almost exclusively on the eastern Pacific off Colombia but if you went further into the Pacific you have Ecuador major transit point for drug shipments and who's the president of Ecuador? Daniel Neboa,
key U.S. ally. Kristi Noem, DHS secretary, just visited him and was sort of championing him because he wants to allow U.S. military bases. In Ecuador, prior to that, Marco Rubio visited with him and touted him as a key partner in the U.S. fight against drugs. But for some reason, the Novoa Shipping Company has this problem with having its packets of Bonita Bananas,
which is a company that his family, his billionaire family owns, infected with large shipments of cocaine sent by the Balkan mafia and the Albanian And the United States. And his excuse is,
well, this was just an infection from the outside. But he was the head of Noboa Shipping before he was president. And it keeps happening. And his business associates keep being connected to all these drug shipments. But he's our guy. And this speaks to the historic role of the CIA in the global drug trade. The CIA has,
it's true, they have used drug profits from drug sales to fund Black operations. You know, Barry Seale, the MENA scandal, which actually involved former Arkansas Governor Bill Clinton, is a famous example. But the CIA also kind of is just complicit because they will protect leaders who they consider allies in the fight against communism or the fight against some Maduro,
or someone who wants to assist the U.S. government economically, the Bolivian cocaine coup that the CIA oversaw, it was because the major cocaine dealers in Bolivia were also key allies against communism. And so they have traditionally done this, The Golden Triangle in Laos, on the border of Vietnam, to ship heroin into the United States.
Those were their anti-communist allies, along with the Hmong militias, which were all, you know, moved out after all this into the United States.
That's the CIA role.
And so that's why they're protecting Daniel Neboa.
But they're going after Nicolas Maduro in Venezuela, where, as you said, Robert, there is no cartel of the sons.
The Department of Justice has just stripped out its indictment of any allegation that the cartel of the sons was a real cartel.
And that was the principal allegation that Maduro was the chief of this cartel.
Venezuela is responsible for less than 10 % of cocaine shipments to Europe and the United States.
And it's mainly just a trans shipment point from Colombia.
And then you go into the US indictment, it kind of illustrates that because they point to all these incidents where cocaine was shipped to the UK or to Mexico. from Venezuela. And their only evidence that Maduro was responsible was that he happened to be president at that time. Well, let me ask you this, because some people are hypothesizing that if this were bona fide regime change, or that was the ultimate goal, why wouldn't they just kill Maduro in the strike and then say, you know, we had to do it, whatever,
instead of bringing him back now. Roberts talked about it at length, and I don't think Many people on our end are buying it, that this has to do with revealing election fraud and they're taking Maduro to get a deal out of him. What about the idea that, I don't know, if they wanted to kill him, they had their opportunity. They took him now on weak charges. Any possibility that he's going to expose the CIA's involvement in the international drug trade,
that would allow some meaningful cleaning of house of the intelligence agencies in America? Oh, he would if he could. And other Venezuelan defendants have recently tried, And I'll get to that in a second.
But whoever was just making that comment, I don't know if it was a viewer, they're right.
The Trump goal wasn't necessarily regime change.
It was to keep the current government in place, to ensure stability, in order to engineer a deal in which Trump Incorporated, will make And what his golden age represents.
And a lot of the spokespeople, the voices of the human rights industrial complex and the NGO world that have been championing Maria Karina Machado, who comes more from the liberal side, but wanted regime change in Venezuela, are furious about what happened. And they're pretending like they hadn't been involved in pushing for this kind of action for a long time. No one expected. But as I said before,
it's going to be tough for him to achieve his goal in an environment like Venezuela. To your question about whether CIA covert activity, including being involved in the international drug trade, Will be exposed to the trial of Nicolas Maduro.
Well, it should be, because it's an established Fact.
I actually saw Mike Benz talking about this the other Day.
But I want to say we Were.
Sort of first out of the gate, at the gray zone, to really revive this reporting from the early 90s and bring it into the online Ecosystem.
The Cartel OF THE SUNS was created by the CIA.
All it was was a collection of National Guard officers in Venezuela during the second term of Ronald Reagan, who had been recruited by the CIA to ship drugs, to ship pure cocaine From Venezuela to the United States, with the goal of exposing Colombian cartel shipment lanes and showing how they get their drugs into the U .S.
And then potentially showing who deals the drugs inside U .S. Cities.
That was at least the cover story.
And the CIA hatched this operation. They called these generals the Cartel of the Suns because they wore patches that had suns on them uniforms. That's the only reason they called it that. And then the DEA was supposed to conduct the surveillance in the United States of this cocaine that was allowed to just flow freely into US cities. And people at the top of the DEA,
and this has happened again and again, they freaked out. And they said, how can you do this? You're not the CIA, you're the cocaine import agency. And so they went to the media. Specifically to Mike Wallace at 60 Minutes, and 60 Minutes did a special in 1993 exposing the Cartel of the Sons as a CIA-created drug shipment organization featuring the National Guard officer that the CIA recruited as their main source,
along with all the DEA officers. They had everyone on camera. Everyone can watch it. Now, will Maduro be able to talk about this in court? For one, there are two reasons why he might not be. Number one, as I said, the DOJ has just removed about 30 references to the Cartel of the Sons from its original 2020 indictment of Maduro, which, as Robert said,
was authored by Under the Watch of William Barr. So they got a new superseding indictment. Number two, the judge, Hellerstein, has shown in the past that he does not like witnesses to testify in court,
especially those that provide political context. There was a trial of the former Venezuelan general who will be the star witness against Maduro this June in the same court in the Southern District of New York. His name is Hugo El Pollo Carvajal. And he attempted to bring a witness who would have demonstrated CIA involvement in a separate drug trafficking operation,
which I can discuss, and the judge refused to allow it. Let me ask you one follow-up question, because you said, you know, it's intended to make money I appreciate where you come from and I'll try to steel man a little bit, but if the idea is that this is going to get cheap oil or cheaper oil in the long run to America, ensure energy independence, yes, there's obviously going to be the people who get those contracts and what's his name, Robert Paulsinger or what's his first name? Yeah, Paulsinger. Paulsinger,
the guy who bought the debt at a fraction of the price. I think he's the one by the way who convinced Trump. When Trump said he's talked to oil people, I was like, who is he talking to? Because I knew a bunch of people in the oil industry. Aside from the shale industry, he's not very happy about this at all because it puts them under price pressure if it actually went through. But a bunch of people in the oil industry were like, Venezuela oil is a nightmare at the moment for a wide range of reasons because it's very costly to extract,
so on and so forth. But I think it was Singer because Singer doesn't care whether they actually get the oil. He just wants to squeeze Venezuela for the $22 billion that he paid pennies on the dollar to get, is my take on him. But speaking of that general, the spy general. So my understanding, well, two things. One, I figured out from talking to some other people that this is the dimwit who's the source of the smartmatic election conspiracy nonsense that Ed Martin was convinced of, that Trump was convinced of, that he has inside information to how Venezuela rigged the election. I was like,
this dude is like a lifelong liar. That's what he does well. He's a very good liar and fraud. I mean, this is a guy who was out, you know, had to leave, flee Venezuela in 2019 after he tried to join the Guido, the Juan Guido coup attempt. Because they figured out he was, in fact, involved in all kinds of illicit activities. And then, you know, somehow got out of custody in Spain and then re-found him. I mean, there's all kinds of things that don't add up on that side of the aisle. But purportedly,
he's the one that's been, ever since he got convicted, pitching this story of, hey, I'll sing to whatever songbook you want me to sing to. And one of them was that he knew how Venezuela fixed the election in 2020 when he wasn't even in Venezuela. Because he'd had to flee because of his failed coup attempt along with Guido. But can you explain to people that this appears to be the only witness? Because the indictment is so weak. Stunningly weak. I mean,
Noriega was a whole different story. I mean, this indictment is nothing like the Noriega indictment. Machine guns, Robert. Machine guns. Yes, indeed. Can you explain that this is the guy the government is apparently relying upon to convict Maduro and how unreliable a witness he is? Yeah,
they stacked the indictment by accusing Maduro of possessing machine guns according to a 1934 U.S. law. That isn't even used against American citizens because you could throw thousands and thousands of Americans who love, you know, The Second Amendment -loving Americans into jail for That.
It also forbids sawed -off shotguns, so it's Ridiculous.
But the guy who will be the star witness, as I said, is named Hugo El Pollo Carvajal, because he kind of looks Very close to Hugo Chavez and was his head of military Intelligence.
But the U .S. Government started targeting Him.
And I'll talk about one key piece of the indictment in which he's named.
They started targeting him in 2006.
He was arrested in Aruba, but he got returned to Venezuela.
The U .S. Government was really mad.
They were hunting him, They wanted him because they thought, if we can get one guy from the Venezuelan deep state. Then he'll sing like a bird. So they then indict him again twice in 2017 on drug conspiracy charges. And he turns that year against Maduro conveniently and starts denouncing Maduro inside Venezuela. Two years later,
He recognizes Juan Guaido as the legitimate president of Venezuela, completely turns on the Chavista movement and government and goes to Spain and seeks Asylum.
And he's trying to position himself as a whistleblower and a principled dissident in order to evade all of the U .S. Indictments.
The U .S. Was fighting to prevent the European Court OF Justice and the Spanish government from giving him Asylum.
Marco Rubio was leading that fight from the Senate because they wanted to get him into a court in New York to set the stage Either in a third country, and they've captured other Venezuelan officials like Alex Saab in third countries, or to get him in his hometown of Caracas. Rubio said this in 2019. He's like, oh, Carvajal's indicted.
he is soon going to be coming to us to deliver the dirt on Maduro.
2023, Carvajal gets extradited from Spain, and now he is in a federal penitentiary after being convicted in June of a quote-unquote narco-terror conspiracy.
Why did they accuse him of narco terror?
Because in order to circumvent the Constitution and go around congressional approval for getting Maduro, and in order to stack the indictment and include cartels from Mexico, including the Sinaloa cartel, in February.
they listed all of these cartels as terrorist groups in order to set the stage for these indictments. And Carvajal, at the same time, cut a secret plea deal with the U.S. government to give him a massively reduced sentence. He could go to jail for 50 years. They could reduce it to whatever they want in exchange for dirt on Maduro. So at that same time that he's convicted from jail,
he issues a letter to Donald Trump and says, I am going to produce the evidence that Smartmatic Voting Systems, a voting machine company in Venezuela that was the subject of 2020 election rigging conspiracy theories, was responsible for rigging the 2020 election.
And he's not saying that just because he's some crazy man or some liar.
He's saying that to save his ass.
For the same reason, Maria Karina Machado is coming to Washington on Thursday to try to give Donald Trump her Nobel Prize.
So he'll do what she wants.
He knows that that's what Donald Trump wants.
Donald Trump wants to prove that the 2020 election was rigged by this voting machine system, or that's what he thinks Donald Trump wants to hear.
so he's just saying it. And that means that he'll say anything that he thinks the prosecution wants to hear in the court against His reduced sentence. And Robert, as a lawyer, you know, in all of these drug conspiracy cases,
there's always a federal informant and the case always rests on the federal informant. Also in most of the terror cases. And the problem is, one, of course, Smartmatic had nothing. I've had major criticism of the 2020 election. Yeah, me too. I mean, me too, as someone who doesn't support Trump. It was a strange election. But just another point, Smartmatic is owned by opponents Yes. Has been out of Venezuela since 2017,
after the out of the Venezuelan 2017 election is not being done in a regular manner. They were only present on the L.A. County servers, and they weren't even present for the purposes of counting ballots. They literally had nothing to do with it. It was a red herring from day one. I know how that all started, but that's another story for another day. So if he's willing to lie about that, that tells me he's a hopeless, habitual liar, aside from the massive motivation to be a rat. The, uh, and rats are just notoriously,
they just perjure themselves in mass. The second problem, of course, is he had very little ties to Maduro, from my understanding. He was mostly out of the government by the time Maduro came in. He was against Maduro in 2019. So how would he know what Maduro was doing in 2020 when he was already out? I mean, They like.
Cross-examination on him is going to be a field day, and the lawyers involved in this include a lawyer I know from the Julian Assange case, the speaking of Ecuador.
That's who out of that?
That's then a whole nother story for another day too.
So the uh as we wrap up.
Uh, I really appreciate you taking the time for this.
The there appears to be I heard this about six months ago that the whole obsession with Venezuela for for Rubio was that he thought it would be the tipping stone to take over Cuba.
They thought he could cut off Venezuelan oil.
Support that.
That's really his main objective.
He doesn't even care what almost what happens in Venezuela.
He's got a long-standing hatred of uh.
You know he's tied to the Latin oligarchic elites throughout those areas that you know, going all the way back, but that his primary focus isn't even what happens in Venezuela, it's just cut off Venezuelan oil to Cuba.
and he thinks Cuba's going to fall. I don't think that's going to happen. Mexico's already shipping them oil. Russia can always ship them oil. But what is the probability that Cuba does fall related to this,
or is that mostly more of a pipe? You know, a 60-year pipe dream still that we're still smoking on. Well, the reason that they believe Cuba will fall is that conditions have worsened in Cuba and there is an energy problem. You could even call it an energy crisis,
But it's very questionable to say that the Cuban government and its revolutionary structure is on its last Legs.
Cuban security forces are.
There's a reason why Venezuela solicited their assistance.
The support base of the Cuban government is Intact.
The Cuban military punches above its Weight.
But I don't know if they're putting an invasion on the table right Now.
They're more seeking to tighten the 60-year embargo and siege on Cuba.
And if you look at statistics of oil imports into Cuba, cumulatively, they have gone down since Trump has come into office for a second term.
But Mexico's oil imports to Cuba, as you said, are going up.
Mexico is going to be a much harder government for Trump to put the squeeze on because of the popularity of Claudia Scheinbaum and her unquestioned democratic legitimacy and just how powerful a country Mexico is within Latin America.
And Trump has at the same time demanded, I mean, this is Rubio's game here, that Venezuela cease exporting oil to Cuba.
I don't know if they're going to do That.
The Venezuelan government issued a statement in response to Trump, declaring that they have a historic treaty and friendship with Cuba.
So this is another friction point.
And another potential clash between Trump, Caracas and Marco Rubio, because I don't think Trump necessarily cares about regime change in Cuba as much as he cares about returning U .S. Oil companies to Venezuela under very favorable conditions to the U .S. And cutting deals for friendly U .S. Businessmen.
There's a major business delegation coming up in March to Caracas that Trump has his eyes on.
If you have a few more minutes, one more question? Yeah. Okay, so you mentioned Claudia Scheinbaum being popular in Mexico. Some people are saying, look, the fentanyl pretext was non-existent because Venezuela doesn't import fentanyl, period. The cocaine export is sort of pretextual as well because they only are responsible for 10%, give or take, like you say. Others might say this is the warning shot to Mexico where if cartels, cocaine, and killing Americans via the drug trade were the pretext,
Claudia Scheinbaum and her cartel-infested country as well, they're building the argument towards either pressure or more with Scheinbaum, and also if China influence is the other pretext, well,
there's a lot of Chinese influence in Mexico as well. So any, I don't know if you have any sources, any intel, any insight, any idea or any credence to the idea that this is a warning shot to Mexico to get their stuff together for the benefit of America? Trump has said so. He's threatened Scheinbaum, and his administration has threatened to conduct airstrikes or some kind of military action inside Mexico, specifically directed against the Sinaloa cartel,
which I do not think will affect fentanyl going into the United States, The Jalisco cartel, Nuevo Generacion Jalisco cartel, are the major sources of fentanyl into the U.S. Fentanyl is responsible for something like 50,000 overdose deaths a year. They're going down,
but it's pretty substantial. And from the perspective of Mexico and their security services, Scheinbaum administration is doing a fairly good job with its anti-drug policy, but what they have At their disposal, the mechanisms at their disposal are, at this point, I think, less powerful than the cartels. The cartels have anti-aircraft weapons. I mean,
they're basically states within the state. And the problem is not limited. The idea that Trump is spreading that shine bomb is somehow cozying up to these cartels. is absurd. To the extent that she's not taking them on directly militarily and using law enforcement mechanisms,
it's to reduce violence, which could actually lead to open warfare in Mexican cities that has left hundreds dead in the past year or so. And going back to the pro-US Mexican governments of Vicente Fox,
who they called the Mexican George W. Bush, Enrique Peña Nieto, who was just undoubtedly one of the most corrupt Mexican leaders, and Calderón before him. There was a very influential police official. He was basically the head of the Mexican FBI. His name was Gennaro Garcia Luna,
and he was like the top cop in charge of drug policy. Today, he's in a U.S. federal prison. In jail for conspiring with the Sinaloa cartel in a multi-million dollar drug conspiracy. And the former U.S. ambassador to Mexico, Roberta Jacobson, openly admitted in 2012 that the U.S. knew about all of his drug conspiracy, but did nothing because these were pro-U.S. administrations. So I think bombing Mexico is not the solution here,
but we have a real problem. And no one's denying that. I gotta go because I have to babysit and my wife is about to be on Jackson Hinkle's show. Oh boy! Just let us know where everybody can find you. The Grey Zone. Grey with an A. Max,
thank you very much. Thanks, Max. Godspeed. Robert, are you going to stick around for a couple of seconds? I'm going to read the chat. His wife wrote a really good book on Venezuela. She's done deep dives into Venezuela. I'll give you an example. Like, so, when the controversy in 2024 arose about whether or not they were rigging the election in Venezuela, remember all that, I reached out to her. She was very independent and impartial. She didn't say, oh, no, it's absolutely not. She said, okay, here's what to look for. Here's this. So, I'm not sure if this is the case. So,
they're not, as they're sometimes portrayed, so ideological, they can't be independent journalistically. And seen good examples of that on Russiagate, Spygate. Ukraine gate. He was one of the very few people on the left to be willing to entertain criticism of the 2020 election. So the, So the UH, I get you know he has a very skeptical view of Trump, more skeptical obviously than I do.
Um, the UH, and it comes from the left, he is open about that but I find to be a very useful source because again, I use that predictive filter and explanatory filter.
You don't write someone off because of I mean look, you can write someone off politically, but you know, it's only a question of whether or not you believe he's a demonstrable propagandist or dishonest.
I don't think he is.
Simple answer.
Yeah, the GRAY ZONE has been far more accurate than the NEW YORK Times.
Well, you know almost any foreign policies.
The joke is a lot of the people.
First of all, the fact that his wife is going with Jackson Hinkle.
First of all, the fact that his wife is going with Jackson Hinkle.
That you know, Jackson Hinkle.
That you know, Jackson Hinkle.
Jackson's become big his own thing.
You know Jackson's become big his own thing.
He was on with Alex Jones, so you know hey, we spotted his talent early on.
He was on with Alex Jones, so you know hey, we spotted his talent early on.
I didn't know what I think.
I didn't know what goes no, I think.
I think um, I don't know what his kid is talented, because I was curious about his magnet communist thing and then he just, you know kept uh, he went, he went off.
I mean, he went the way of Jake Lang, like young Energetic, followed where the, where the clicks were is my take, I think.
But he is semi-sophisticated at what he's learning.
He's a young kid.
I don't agree with him.
A whole bunch of stuff.
I don't trust him as a reliable source.
No no, when you, when you're retweeting uh, literal Hamas propaganda, I mean you could feel the way you want, and rightly so, about Israel's actions, literal Hamas propaganda, much like.
I won't name any other names um, but I was gonna say like, if people, you know, for those in our chat over in Rumble who are calling him a commie I, I think a lot of you guys he called himself a mega communist.
That was one of the reasons why we interviewed him.
It's like I gotta interview some kid who thinks he's who combines mega and communism, I would say any Nick Fuentes follower and i'm not saying this to me, i'm not saying this to be they would love him.
I mean, and i'm not trying to be glib like he's, he's uh, he views everything.
I think maybe to a bit of a flaw and I would like to have this discussion with him in a longer format.
Israel's involved in everything.
Uh, you know, America should not be involved in in, in global conquest and in that, you know, to that extent he meets right up there with with, with um, with Fuentes and even, you know, with the Dave Smiths of the world.
So it does wrap around and I know he's knowledgeable.
period. You take it with his perspective and his underlying filter, but let me bring up a bunch of all of the chats. I said we're going to go raid Redacted soon. And by the way, Everyone can get your butts over to VIVA Barnes LAW because there's no paywall today.
So Venezuelan oil is not straight well, to refinery, to car path.
It is dirty, extra heavy, crude.
Yeah, dominant.
When we talked about this yesterday at length, and now a dominant one says, uh, real men want to be pounded with Anton's meat from king of Biltong, half pounded with eight.
It's not again.
It'll never get old.
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I don't know if you can see this one.
It says attacks out of nowhere.
What about the thousands of rockets paid for by Iran?
And Cwsib says, good, this is a religious dictatorship that people do not want it.
The people have been trying to fight it for decades.
Well, From the Iranians that I.
They don't like It.
They don't like the Regime.
They go Back.
They're afraid to go Back.
They want to get their families out.
I'm of the opinion, I don't believe anything that I see on the Internet.
We've created the rally around the flag Effect.
I've been trying to explain this to people for Forever.
There's this fanciful delusion in America that all these people around the world can't wait for the U .S. Government to come and invade and give them our blessing of a colonial enterprise.
I mean, folks, just think it through yourself.
Don't like Joe Biden.
Would you want Russia or China to invade us or bomb us to help us deal with Joe Biden?
What happens?
Everybody rallies around.
So I have no doubt the Iranians are rallying around the Flag.
I heard this from multiple Iranian sources Before.
And people that are critical of the regime who said please, whatever you do, don't say you're going to intervene because as Stratfor laid out, which is a CIA-organized private enterprise. I subscribed to them for many years. They said this would happen. They said if the U.S. says we will go in, or if Israel says they will go in,
the protests will peter out, and in fact there will be a rally around the flag. How is it Americans still can't understand this? How is it they still live in some delusion? The people in Tehran are like, please, America, send your bombs. Please, America. What kind of nonsense? Do you still believe it? Come on. No, I had to look up. Someone says he openly supports the ACP. Hold on, Uprising. And then, you know, it gets armed,
or funded, or financed, or logistically supported by America. It will, let, I mean, to some extent, you gotta let him fight it out. We always side with terrorists, too. These people that, he didn't go into the details on this part, because it would take too long. But we have been siding with various, Iran is an incredibly complicated society. It is a massive, massive country, just geographically, and in terms of population, and in terms of, the Farsi are not even a majority, or barely a majority right now. of Iran. So you get all these different groups and as usual,
we're siding with various terrorist groups in the country and that's who joined the protest and that killed the protest and all of a sudden reverted the protest to being pro-regime. This is how stupid the people are that are in the CIA. Their incompetence is just incredible. And American gullibility. Gotta smack yourself in the face. How many times are you going to believe this? The Afghanis can't wait to replace the Taliban. Guess who we replaced them with? The Taliban! We're going to raid Redacted. Everybody,
There is no paywall today because we use Stream YARD, because I didn't want to have any uh learning curves.
I don't know if I didn't know if Max used it.
Raid redacted.
Let him know from whence he came.
Before you do it, make sure that you're subscribed over on Rumble and we're going to carry on for another few more minutes.
Robin, if you can stick around, stick around, we'll do this.
Um, we're going now.
How do I do it here?
I gotta go over here and turn us off on twitter.
Remove from twitter.
Then i've got to go to the card shop because I got a couple of Psa graded cards in and one of them might be a good one.
We'll see.
I'm very excited.
PSA, by the way, is the one that was bought up by that corrupt company that is now monopolizing the practice that's deliberately undervaluing your cards so they can pocket the money.
Who bought HOLD ON?
Who bought PSA?
Was it collectors Holding INK formerly uh, collected?
Yes look, I don't care.
Just so long as my Rokey Sasaki comes back with a Psa 10, I don't care about any of this, it's an investment.
Just remind him i'm a lawyer.
Would hate to see you.
For any trust.
I'm pretty sure this is a 10 out of 10, just saying i'll tell you what the tops has been very good at replacing damaged cards out of the box.
so I'll give him credit for that. I'm not sure how many card collectors are so neurotic like me that they actually send the cards back saying, no, this one's got, I can't grade this one. What was I about to do? I'm going to end it on Rumble, not Locals. So Rumble, peace out. Tomorrow, I've got to publish the interview that I did this morning. And Wednesday, we will be live with Colonel McGregor, here at 3pm Eastern Time, breaking down the whole world. Former top advisor to President Trump in his first term. Ooh,
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