Viva & Barnes - Live with Chris Martenson - Discussing Charlie Kirk Assassin Conspiracy Theories

Nov. 17, 2025 - Viva & Barnes

01:16:41

Live with Chris Martenson - Discussing Charlie Kirk Assassin Conspiracy Theories

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	Ladies and gentlemen of the interwebs, in today's show, we are going to explore theories and counter theories to official narrative theories with Mr. Chris Martinson, who you know from Peak Prosperity and from amazing work he's done during COVID.
	Behold.
	We're going to be pushing into this special investigation because, you know, there's a lot of theories out there as to what happened.
	Charlie Kirk, I think we owe it to him.
	We owe it to ourselves.
	We owe it to everybody to find out exactly what happened.
	And the official story is that he was shot with a 30-06 by someone from the spot up there in the Losie building.
	And I can prove to you today that that's just not true.
	Now, I had a hypothesis, born from a long time being a gun shooter, that a 30-06 round was not going to be stopped by going into Charlie's neck.
	And in particular, I think what we have to confront here is, well, what's the actual evidence telling us?
	So that's what we did.
	The Peak Prosperity team, Nick on the team and Barry on the edit team, we went ahead and we conducted experiments.
	And I'm letting a video from Chris Martinson do too much explaining before we get into this for today's show.
	Ladies and gentlemen of the interwebs, let me bring this back on.
	I'm going to keep that on the backdrop just in case we need it.
	I don't need a video of Chris Martinson to explain the theory.
	I need the real thing so that I can ask questions as we go along.
	Everybody, Chris was on the show.
	At least once, maybe twice.
	Chris, come on in.
	How many times have we, how many times have you been?
	It's been twice or is it just once?
	This might be the third time, to be honest.
	Okay.
	I remember one time because I had to do the live stream from a bathroom in Saint-Agath in Quebec.
	It was winter.
	That's incredible.
	Everyone was like, is that Echo?
	And is Viva in the bathroom?
	It's like, yeah, I have to, you know, position the camera away from the toilet.
	Chris, good to see you again.
	For those who are just meeting, let me move over.
	This is a little weird today.
	For those who are meeting you for the first time, tell them who you are.
	So, Chris Martinson, I am the proprietor of a website called Peak Prosperity.
	I've been doing it about, oh, gosh, 20 plus years now.
	And my whole shtick, as it is, is I just like data.
	I like evidence.
	I like things making sense.
	And I'm a kind of a systems thinker.
	So that's what I do in my day job at Peak Prosperity.
	I look at energy, the economy, the environment, how they come together at a systems level, all of which conspires in my mind to say, wow, you know, huge changes are coming and people should be prepared and resilient for those changes.
	And so my motto is: if the data changes, I'll change my mind.
	And, you know, unfortunately, that gives me a side career, fairly robust view, as what they call a conspiracy theorist, right?
	Because we have these official stories that don't comport with science.
	So I did a lot of science in my day, right?
	Came up, got my bachelor's in science.
	I have a PhD in pathology.
	I've done a lot of physics work.
	And I like things to make sense, right?
	So every time I've looked at certain things like the JFK magic bullet theory, you have to suspend the laws of physics for that to make sense.
	Otherwise, it doesn't work.
	And every single time we have one of these big, weird things that happens that's really transformative for our nation, I find too often I'm asked to suspend the laws of physics.
	And I'm just unwilling to do that.
	I won't do that for anybody, especially my government.
	And the Charlie Kirk case is yet another case where we were being asked to suspend the laws of physics.
	We're going to get into it because there are a lot of theories out there.
	And a lot of people, I think at some point, we entered the realm of what Alex Jones had entered back in Sandy Hook, where he had lived through so many conspiracies proved right that he arguably started looking for conspiracies that didn't exist or the wrong conspiracies where other conspiracies did exist.
	The false dichotomy here is that if you don't believe in some of these other alternative conspiracy theories, you're adhering to and believing the FBI.
	When in reality, look, I don't trust, first of all, I don't trust this FBI, not because I don't trust the FBI, this FBI.
	I don't trust any FBI.
	And even Kash Patel, in some of the statements he's made in this investigation, has said things that have turned out to be untrue.
	So, but it's not because I believe something that the FBI is saying that I'm parroting a talking point of the FBI.
	I know what I think I have my theories.
	I've invited on a number of people, Chris, who are promoting alternative theories.
	And thus far, you're the first to have come.
	So, Ian still has an open invitation, and he promised online.
	So, I'm not, I'm not sharing private messages.
	And I would love to talk with Candace because at some point, I think there's a number of conspiracy theories that they evolve over time.
	And so they're impossible to pin to a wall to rebut.
	Your theory, and I've shared it with our locals community.
	The operating theory is that you do not believe it could have been a .306, a 30-caliber.
	I forget what the dash six represents, but your theory is that it could not have been that bullet and it could not have come from that location, which we're being told by the FBI.
	Correct.
	At least, unless we have to go into some really bizarre territory where this kid allegedly had access to some really exotic rounds, I can't entirely conclusively rule something super exotic out.
	Okay.
	But anything that a common cartridge that you would walk into a store and buy and put it into that gun, no, there's no chance that his neck, you know, he was shot here, right?
	Not in the center where it could have struck bone, off to the side.
	And I can show you, you know, how that sort of pencils out.
	But this is something that takes a little time for people to learn because, you know, they hear the stories like, oh, Chris, bullets do weird things when they enter bodies.
	And what they don't understand is that when a bullet is first fired, it has a certain amount of energy, right?
	So a little tiny 22 has, you know, just a few tens of foot pounds of energy is how they measure that.
	And a foot pound very simply is: if I have a pound and I hold it a foot in the air and I drop it, the amount of energy it has, that's a foot pound.
	So, you know, pistol rounds might be getting up into, you know, the few hundreds of foot pounds if they're if they're pretty hot.
	The 30 ought six round is carrying anywhere from a minimum of 2,000 to as high as 3,000 foot pounds of energy.
	It's an extraordinary amount.
	And so when people say, oh, sometimes bullets do weird things, they mean kind of either really light bullets or ones that have already entered a body, struck something, and then they do weird stuff.
	So you might think of it as having an initial phase, sort of a slowing down phase.
	And it's in that slowing down phase, bullets can do weird things, right?
	But not in that first part, right?
	So if I said to somebody, hey, could you imagine a 30 millimeter cannon round from a Blackhawk helicopter when it strikes a body?
	It's not going to do anything weird.
	It's going straight through, right?
	And so this here, this is a 308 round.
	This is a very, very energetic round.
	Okay.
	This is a standard military round that you might use.
	And just to interrupt so that people who are not familiar with bullets, energetic, you're talking about the amount of gunpowder in the lower section.
	I forget what that's called, in the shell that projects the projectile forward.
	Right.
	So force equals mass times acceleration.
	The mass is the weight of the bullet, and the powder tells you how much it's going to accelerate.
	Right.
	So something that's going really fast is going to carry more energy than something of the same weight that's going slower.
	Okay.
	So this is a, this is, this is big.
	This is a big giant one.
	Like this is a little nine mil round right here.
	Okay.
	Right here.
	So the little nine mil, I mean, listen, you wouldn't want to get shot with a nine mil, but this thing has vastly more energy than this.
	And just to be clear, when I hold these up, people say, oh, Chris, you're being inaccurate.
	Just to be clear, this whole thing doesn't fly down the range like it's a Disney cartoon.
	Just the bullet part, right?
	This is a cartridge, fully loaded.
	Okay.
	Now let's go to a 30 ought six equivalent.
	This thing is now 30 ought six, and we'll put our 308 up against it.
	And this thing is just full of so much more power.
	It's just an unbelievable round.
	So this is what we're supposed to believe he was shot with.
	And just a positive there also, this is the official.
	Just sort of, I'm not going to caveat this throughout the thing.
	This is not to reaffirm, positively assert what you're saying.
	I'm going to ask, and if anybody's going to say, Viva, why aren't you cutting him off and challenging him?
	I'm going to let Chris explain and I'm going to have the questions that I have on the back burner.
	The question that this is, according to the story as it's now being told, we are told it was a 30-06 round.
	Official autopsy hasn't come out.
	And I don't know that they've positively identified based on fragments yet publicly.
	But that is what the FBI is saying.
	That is what the official story is right now, a 30-06 round.
	And then we can take it from there.
	If you disagree that it was a 30-06 or you're denying that it was actually, that's what we're being told.
	That is what we're being told.
	And then you believe it is going to be where Chris comes in.
	Okay, fine.
	So a powerful.
	Go for it.
	Let me establish that just real quickly because there are no other avenues being explored at this point in time.
	I've read the affidavit of a probable cause by which they arrested Robinson, right?
	So Tyler was arrested and they said, okay, we got this guy.
	He's limping.
	He comes up on a roof.
	He goes out of view for a little bit, then runs over, lies down, a shot rings out.
	Then we all get to see that grainy video of somebody running across the rooftop.
	They later found a 3006 with one spent cartridge, a shell in the chamber and two other cartridges or three that were inscribed with other things on them.
	And so that's the entire, there's no other, nothing else is being pursued.
	You know, it was the butcher in the library with the candlestick, right?
	It was Tyler Robinson on the roof with this gun.
	And the recovered shells, I presume also the ones that had the engravings, catch fascists, those were 30 ought six.
	And so that is the evidence that is alleged to exist that we're being told as of now.
	Okay.
	Absolutely.
	And it would be great.
	You know what we need?
	Just take some pictures of those cartridges.
	Show me the head stamp so I can know exactly what round, what manufacture, and then we can run proper tests.
	Right now, we don't know.
	So we're running tests on all different kinds of potential rounds because you can buy them in different flavors, if you will, right?
	You could buy one that's lightly loaded, one that's very heavily loaded with more gunpowder.
	It could have a light bullet, a medium, a heavy bullet.
	So we've tried all of these things to see if we can recreate it all a bullet stopping in something that would resemble a human neck.
	And we haven't been able to do it, obviously.
	And I'm not surprised by that because these things are just so powerful.
	Well, that was, you got ahead of one of the fundamental questions I had, which is if this bullet is for an antique rifle and the bullet itself might be 100 years old, you might be dealing with gunpowder degradation, which would impact velocity, which would impact force.
	And so if you don't know that, then it could be a 30-06 that might just have had degraded gunpower and not the same force as a modern, fresh, so to speak, 30-06.
	It could be, but you'd be surprised unless they're stored in really bad conditions.
	I mean, high humidity and heat.
	These shells last for a very, very long time.
	I've personally shot surplus World War II ammo.
	Shoots fine.
	So unless it was like really old, you know, or something like that.
	But again, mystery could be very easily solved if we just had some basic information, right?
	We deserve the autopsy.
	We should see the cameras that TPUSA had from other angles.
	It'd be great if we had other security footage from that day from all the cameras that UVU had.
	It would be great if we could see the cartridges.
	So caveat, we are operating with imperfect information here.
	Well, and people are going to say, we'll have all of that during the trial.
	And I presume there are legitimate reasons not to expose some of the evidence that will be adduced at trial.
	But then setting all that aside, we can go right back to the beginning.
	People are going to say, all right, well, if there's always the asterisk or the, what's the word, how you pronounce it properly?
	Axter, whatever.
	If there's always the asterisk that it could have been a 30-06 that could have been impacted by improper storage, it was 100 years old and they, you know, humidity and whatever.
	All right, well, then that's kind of like people are going to say, well, okay, that's the end of the conspiracy theory.
	Why go to something more elaborate than that more plausible explanation?
	And I guess the question is going to be, if you don't think it was a 30-odd six, what do you believe?
	And what is the basis for which you believe that, given that relatively important asterisk that you're prepared to concede?
	All right.
	So if we go with like a degraded ammo, what we're really arguing is that it would have been traveling at a much lower velocity than we otherwise would expect, right?
	So instead of coming out of the barrel at 2,700 feet per second, we might posit it's 50% degraded, you know, so it's coming out at 1,800 feet per second or whatever number we're going to dial that back to.
	So now we have to account for what we actually see that day.
	So here's some things we saw that day, and we can just step through it.
	I think everybody's already seen the murder over and over again, probably.
	So what we saw that day was there was a shot.
	It rang out.
	We actually have audio recordings from all over the place in the audience that day.
	So we hear two things with that shot.
	We hear what's called the crack and the thump.
	You hear the supersonic bullets.
	It makes its own sound.
	And then later, because the bullets traveling supersonic, which by definition is faster than the speed of sound, eventually the thump from the rifle catches up because it's traveling at the speed of sound.
	So you hear the crack thump.
	So we have that from all over the place.
	So we're confident that a high-speed rifle round was shot.
	So that helps to start dispense with some of these other theories that maybe are floating around.
	Because now we have to account for, well, if that wasn't it, where did that high-speed round go?
	Because we did have a crack thump.
	Yeah, well, you had a crack thump.
	And then contemporaneously, and I've watched all, you know, not all, a lot of the footage.
	I don't think there was any doubt in the minds of the audience where that crack came from, the initial crack.
	I mean, everybody was looking at the same spot, give or take, on the roof where they thought they saw someone running afterwards.
	And so, I mean, I guess my first question to you is, do you question where the shot came from?
	And if you do, based on what?
	I do, but that's going to take me a second to build there.
	And it gets, we'll get into the physics.
	So one, we have a high-speed rifle round, which is completely coincident with the video evidence of him being shot.
	So if we're going to posit something else like, oh, that round went somewhere else, but somebody set off something remote explosion of some other kind.
	The lapel mic.
	Yeah, we don't have any sound of that lapel mic exploding on any of the cameras, phones that are out there.
	And it would have to be timing that's so perfect, I wouldn't even want to try it in a movie set, you know, after 10 like practice sessions.
	I would argue it's impossible that even if it came at the same time, people would have heard it within the proximity within the audience.
	Nobody looked forward when they heard it.
	And then people are going to say, well, it was, I don't know, camouflaged with the echo coming off the buildings coming from the lapel.
	Very unlikely.
	Exceedingly unlikely.
	Okay.
	Right.
	Okay.
	Crack thump, high velocity, high power rifle.
	And then the question is only from what location.
	So then we have a second piece of information, which was Charlie immediately stiffened up and his right hand curled in.
	And that's something called decorticate posturing.
	And it speaks to a very specific level of injury inside the brain.
	Okay.
	To get that kind of behavior where the hands curl up and in and they're toned before they finally slump and get.
	Immediate severing of the spinal cord is something along those lines.
	It has to be actually a damage to the midbrain above the red nucleus.
	If the spinal cord was immediately severed, he would have gone immediately flaccid.
	There's no more connection with the nerves back out to the muscles in the hand.
	So if his spine had been severed, we would have expected him to go what's called discerebrate instead, which you just slump immediately, right?
	You're just, you're out, you're gone.
	There is no muscle tone.
	So, and we saw that he does this, and then a half beat, couple of frames, and then this blood just sort of like slumps out, and it's a lot, but we didn't see arterial spurting, right?
	So, even if somebody gets their head cut off in, say, a guillotine, they're going to be spurting for a while because the heart just does not give up.
	It's one of the last things you can sever a spine and the heart will still pump.
	So, we didn't see that.
	What we saw was he got something struck his neck, it had a lot of energy, and it probably pushed that blood up into his head, and then it slumped out.
	But he was dead instantly.
	His heart was not pumping.
	I'll stop you just on one thing because I'm trying to, I'm not a doctor.
	I've watched a few, everybody, I'm a hypochondriac, but I've watched a few analyses which qualifies you.
	And I stayed all the day in.
	No, I've seen a few people analyze, say that, and it was the same one with another shooting.
	It was the porch shooting where the guy went down right away.
	And it was, I want to say, Bronca who suggested that it was a carbine and they said must have hit him in something central nervous because it was immediate incapacity, immediate everything shut off.
	That being said, and I'll look to the chat.
	Some people will be inclined to think that the tightening up was instantaneous, and then it was the slumping over, which is what we saw.
	And so, you know, that's only to suggest where the bullet hit something to do with the brain that immediately shut everything off that led to an instant contraction and then the slumping over, which is what we saw.
	So, I guess the only question is, even according to what you understand of severing the spinal cord, hypothetically, it hits it.
	I don't know where it would have to hit it in the neck or lower, or maybe in multiple areas because the bullet fragmented off and hit two places at once.
	Even if it were severing the spinal cord, would there be a moment of involuntary spasm clenching, then followed by the slumping?
	Not as I understand it, but all of my understanding is basically just coming from having gone through a couple years of medical school, right?
	And this is just how it was explained: that when a nerve is transected, the muscles can't contract.
	There's nothing muscles only contract because a nerve sends a signal out and they dump acetylcholine in the receptor, and your muscles will then tighten up.
	So, if that's severed, it's just like saying, Hey, if I cut a line in my house for the light switch, is there a chance the light would blink momentarily after I do that?
	And the answer is no.
	That's how I understand it.
	Now, this could be different because I don't know.
	You know, at Duke Medical School, they never showed us, you know, many videos of people in slow-mo being shot.
	Well, now that you mentioned it, I don't know.
	It depends on also what hypothetically, what the, even if what you're saying is true and it required a certain clenching required a certain spot in the brain and not the spinal cord, whether or not there could have been fragmenting and hitting it multiple areas at one time.
	Okay, fine.
	So, your understanding is the clenching would indicate that the severing of the spinal cord or the damage would have to occur above the spinal cord and in the in the brain.
	Well, the spinal cord is part of the brain, but in the brain itself.
	Yes, and but without a severing.
	And, but the most important thing I want to communicate is that the only way I know to get a heart to stop instantaneously is with mechanical damage.
	You, the heart, you can cut it off from its nerve supply and it will keep doing this for a little while, right?
	The only way for it to not be pumping is if it's been mechanically assaulted.
	So, to the heart itself, which is what incidentally, what they've all, everyone from TPUSA to anyone who's not floating the lapel conspiracy theory said his heart was obliterated by the bullet.
	Then the only question is how that happened.
	Right.
	And so now we're going to have to get into some of the physics behind it a little bit.
	And I think now that you mentioned that, if the heart is obliterated, which you also assert for your theory, and there was the tensing up, which you're also asserting for your theory, that does either presume two different locations at the same time or instantaneous basically going from one to the other, from the brain to the heart.
	It does.
	Or one thing that we can maybe put all of this under one umbrella is that.
	So I'm pretty confident that not only was he struck with a high-velocity something or other, we'll go with a rifle round for now, but it stayed in his body because we didn't see any through and throughs.
	There was no evidence of any other like blood on the back of his shirt, holes.
	There's nothing coming out.
	So when a high-velocity rifle round carries two 2,500 foot pounds of energy and it doesn't go through the body, it has to dump all of that energy into the body.
	And fluids don't compress.
	That's why hydraulic lines work.
	Fluids don't compress.
	So what happens when you have 2,000 plus foot pounds of energy and it just stops?
	Well, what happens is all those fluids expand out violently for a beat, right?
	Very short amount of time.
	And so that's the experiments we ran to say, look, we saw some things.
	His necklace broke, right?
	And we see it flying off of his neck.
	And some people said, well, that means his necklace had to have been shot, or maybe that's evidence for the explosion.
	But we have his necklace broke.
	And I can show you the video evidence that he overexpanded his whole chest and neck, just like do this for a couple of beats, right?
	And I'm talking like, you know, frame or two in a video.
	And then, but once that happens, that explains the mechanical damage to the heart.
	It explains also potentially why the entrance wound looks like an exit wound.
	Because imagine that you've just made one hole in the body.
	This happens.
	And now all that stuff has to go somewhere.
	And so I bet some would have medically called evulsed.
	It would have come back out that hole.
	So it would have made it look larger than it would have.
	If it had been a through and through, you probably almost wouldn't have seen it.
	Sometimes entrance wounds are almost impossible to see because it's just a little hole that opens and closes again.
	The back is where you get the big violence.
	Okay.
	So thus far, you're not saying thus far, what you're positing is not anything that contradicts anything yet of the official narrative, saving except for how you think it occurred.
	Right.
	Okay.
	Yeah.
	So let me turn now.
	Let me see if I can do this.
	I'm going to share my screen real quick.
	I want to talk through just a little something, something here.
	So let's go ahead and share that.
	And let me know if you can see this.
	I see infinite backdrop.
	Infinite backdrop.
	Okay.
	We're going to try something else.
	Oh, did I share my screen?
	Was that your screen or my screen?
	I think it was mine.
	Yeah, we have a common friend on Twitter.
	Yeah, I'm still getting the infinite thing, which I didn't have before.
	Go to, well, maybe close.
	You're trying to go to Rumble.
	Well, close.
	How did it work?
	You did it before.
	I know.
	It was when you go to share screen, there's Chrome tab, window, entire screen.
	I think you want to go to window.
	Yeah, I've been trying the window.
	Just so everybody knows.
	Let me just try this real quick, and I'm not sure this will work.
	What do you see now?
	I see bit focus error.
	Yeah, that's not going to help.
	That's the only screen it'll let me share for some reason.
	We did this before we went live.
	Just everybody knows we were not Boomer Viva.
	You could send me the link.
	All right, right.
	I have a second way I can do this.
	Now I can see.
	I see Charlie Kirk was not shot with a 30-odd six.
	You're out of the frame a little bit.
	Yep.
	And that's okay.
	I can be out of the frame.
	So I can do this.
	I'll take my face out and now you can share the whole thing and you're on the screen.
	And you'll hear my voice.
	All right.
	Your entire presentation.
	So, so here, here's my setup for this.
	Um, oops, one second.
	Um, my setup for this is oh, not that.
	Um, so Charlie was sitting basically right under this apex, he's sitting here, and this is all orthogonal to this setup.
	So, it's very nice.
	We can sort of place where he is.
	And so, he's sitting right here.
	He's he's his back is square to the wall, and we can place him pretty accurately.
	And the idea is that he was shot from this spot at the top of the low-cy building, the low-cy center, and the shot would have been taken right from here.
	You see these evidence tags, and it would have been this shot right here.
	Yes, what's the elevation of the rooftop compared to where Charlie was?
	80 plus feet-ish, 75.
	Um, and so what that gives us is two things.
	First is that this is not exactly straight onto Charlie.
	If it was, it would be another 80 feet to the left.
	So, actually, there's a 10-degree angle from side to side.
	So, the low sea building would have been here, and the shot would have come like this.
	This is Charlie's head in red.
	The blue dot is approximating his neck.
	He was shot about here, midline in his neck.
	And this is where a bullet shot straight would have gone in a little black circle here to try and indicate where the spinal column would be because maybe it hit bone, right?
	So, now we'd have to account for how does a highly energetic round suddenly depart?
	And the physics behind this are extraordinary.
	It would take like 12,000 pounds of resistive force to take a third standard 30 out 6 round and get it to deviate by that much over that short of a space.
	But let me interrupt you there for one second.
	This is, I mean, I presume that it's a relatively accurate positioning of his body at the moment of impact to the best you can surmise.
	He was in movement, his body was moving, he was rocking back and forth, and there was body motion.
	So, I agree by the time, especially by the time the bleeding occurred, he was definitely leaning a little bit more to the side to which he fell.
	But the argument might be there was body movement in the interim, and his body where it was, I mean, like we're dealing with an inch of angle depending on what his body motion was at the time when he got shot.
	Yeah, so I've tracked that out as carefully as I can, and he's definitely just rocking back and forth like this because he's he's picking up the microphone.
	So, this is kind of his, he's not really doing a lot of this, right?
	No, but yeah, but it would be like a quarter of an inch type thing.
	All right, but so with that caveat in mind, I guess, proceed and then we'll see.
	The obvious question is going to be: if it wasn't from there, then where was it from?
	Well, it would have actually taken a kind of a fairly aggressive turn of his head.
	So, if this is, I'm getting shot at a 10-degree angle like this, I actually have to take my whole body and do this.
	It's actually pretty large motion to get that to line up, if you want him to be hit in the spinal column.
	Okay, but even if he was, it may not actually be all that relevant.
	Okay, and so this is an actual human neck transected at exactly the level he was shot somewhere between what's called the C6, C7, the sixth and seventh vertebrae in the cervical area.
	And this is roughly where the bullet would have come in.
	This big blue thing would be your jugular vein, which we saw just draining out, right?
	And but see, the carotid is right next to it.
	It's unthinkable to me that a 30-0-6 round could come in and not damage the jugular and the carotid at the same time.
	They're so close.
	And you'll see why when we look at some of the violent things that happen when you shoot things with 30 ought sixes.
	And again, it's coming through here.
	And the only thing it could have done maybe is tag one of these tubercles, which are these little things.
	If you know anything about the human neck, it is a it's a lame piece of bone.
	It's just they break easily, as anybody who's broken one can tell you.
	They're kind of weak in the animal kingdom, you know.
	And these little wings off to the side is not really dense bone.
	It's you can snap them with your fingers, honestly.
	So, this would have been the angle from one direction.
	So, that's the 10 degrees off axis.
	But as well, it's coming down at about a 10 degree angle, just under.
	So how do we account for that?
	And what does that actually look like?
	Now, by the way, this was from the ice shooting.
	They show us the cartridges.
	I'm like, oh, no, I don't know what we're dealing with.
	They just won't show us these for some reason.
	Yeah, I'm going to, while you refresh our memory on that, I'm going to go see if we, if there are no images of the encasings other than the descriptions, what was on them.
	Okay, fine.
	People in the chat are saying, you know, the observations, we saw the hands clench, and there were a number of doctors saying that that was a systemic involuntary, something like a spinal type reaction, not just the instantaneous shock of getting hit with a bullet.
	But people are saying he went limp immediately.
	And then, you know, even based on your theory, are you accounting for a downward angle on this?
	Yes.
	Okay.
	And what is the downward angle coming from 80 feet at 200 yards?
	It's about, it's just under 10 degrees.
	We'll call it 10, just to make it simple.
	10 degrees.
	And so the theory, I mean, you're suggesting once it gets, if the entrance wound was what we saw him bleeding from, your theory is that if it's a 30-odd six, it would have to come out the back because there's not enough bone structure to break things up.
	Right.
	The exact spot that was hit, which is right here on the neck, is one of the softest, easiest to traverse parts on the whole human body, right?
	It's really, it doesn't have, it's just meat.
	It doesn't have a lot of resistance to it.
	It's not like getting shot through the femur or, you know, in something broader like a chest cavity.
	It's a pretty weak area right there.
	And completely different from getting shot in the head.
	You have a lot of bone up here, right?
	So bones can, you know, deform bullets fairly quickly, and then that will cause them to begin to have different forces on them because it's not a beautiful, straight little spherical thing spiraling.
	It's now a deformed thing, which can plane and do all kinds of things.
	But still, when we talk about bullets doing crazy things in bodies, that's after they've traversed some great distance.
	The first six inches, which is about the width of a neck here, all we're having is literally a couple thousand minimum foot pounds of force, and it's going to continue to do exactly what it was doing.
	So this is the thing about bullets.
	It's just Newtonian physics, Viva.
	They will continue in the direction they're going until a force acts upon them.
	And people, hunters would tell me, oh, but I shot a twig once and I missed the deer.
	I'm like, yeah, but you shot the twig here and the deer was another 80 yards, right?
	If you shot the twig and your 30 odd six went straight into the ground underneath it, I'd be pretty impressed, but it wouldn't happen that way, right?
	So we have to understand that what we're talking about is a bullet with all of the force that it was going to ever have hitting him right about here.
	And only we're talking about what happened over those next six inches.
	Yeah, well, so if I stop you there, people are going to say like your predicate is that it has to go sufficiently in, hit bones before it starts doing wonky things.
	And other people are going to say if it's hitting, if it's hitting, I said aorta before, I meant the jugular.
	If it hits the jugular and it's hitting something filled with fluid, which is thicker than water, and it's not, I mean, and again, going back to the bullet, I don't know if this is even within the realm of possibility.
	I'm not a gun guy, but I remember from taxi driver when he's, you know, he's hammering in the X on the bullet tip so that it breaks up in fragments and basically becomes one of those dumb dumbs.
	I mean, I don't know.
	I don't know if you can do that to a 30-odd six or if it can happen because there might have been a fracture in the 30-odd six, maybe in the projectile.
	And so when it hits fluid that's thicker than water and it immediately breaks up into two or more pieces and then goes in a variety of directions down into the heart to eviscerate the heart and maybe up into the spinal cord of the brain.
	And if that, like, again, because what you're positing is going to be not, I'm going to say outlandish just because it's for lack of a better word, it's going to be so extravagant given the premise of we know that a shot came from there.
	We know that there were things found there, unless you think that the FBI planted them there.
	And so you're positing something which is far more extravagant than a possibility that the projectile fragmented for whatever the reason upon impact upon hitting a thick, viscous substance and then did the exact type of damage that you said occurred.
	Well, even if it fragments instantly, those fragments are still, their vector of travel is going to be exactly straight.
	So we still have to account for a force that could cause even a fragment to veer off in a big way.
	And the physics are what they are, right?
	This is just simple, well, it's not simple, but it is ballistics.
	And so anything will, you know, this is Newton, right?
	He said anything will a motion, a body at rest stays at rest.
	Corollary is a body in motion remains in motion.
	So we have to say, well, how much force would it take for this thing to have deviated down into his body, which is a pretty violent thing to go from 10 degrees to about a 30-degree angle down.
	And that would have actually ripped his head off to be graphic about it.
	It's so much force.
	So can I take you to some of the some of the experiments we did so we can just like and I'm reading the chat because I want to make sure to get all my questions might be dumb and I apologize in advance, but I want to get no, I love it.
	I want to get my dumb questions and then I'll get the smarter questions from the chat because people are saying like imagine shooting a gooseneck or maybe it hit a bug in midair.
	And I'm look, I'll bring myself out.
	I'm just thinking like, you know, when people say bullets do weird things, and if you have to suspend disbelief, like the magic bullet in the JFK assassination, well, we're dealing with a far, you know, a bullet doing a U-turn versus veering off at 10 degrees versus 12 degrees.
	You know, we're dealing with different levels of suspending disbelief.
	I'll take my face out and tell us what you want to say here.
	All right.
	So we ran experiments because, like I said, I'm a data guy.
	So we bought pig roasts, right?
	Because we think that pig roasts kind of look like a human neck.
	This is pretty close, right?
	It's solid muscle.
	You actually have a bone in the center.
	This bone is much denser than a human neck bone because this has to carry the weight of a few hundred pound pig.
	So we use these picnic roasts, they're called up here.
	It's from the front of the animal.
	It's got a very heavy bone in it.
	And we took eight different roasts.
	We shot 38 times at them.
	We used different things.
	We had 150 grain full metal jackets, which those things just go through everything.
	We shot one of those through a 15-inch beam.
	It went straight through it, an old-aged, dry pine beam.
	And then we use these 30-odd 680-grain.
	They're called ballistic tips.
	These are those, these are basically hollow points.
	They have a little plastic cone on, but that shears away very quickly when it strikes something.
	And then these are designed to just mushroom out and all of that.
	And then we also used these big old fat 220 grain soft points, they're called, and just to see.
	And we have some more on the way right now.
	We're trying some lighter ones.
	We're trying all different things.
	I wish if they could just tell us which round they thought it was.
	We don't have to go through all this rig and roll.
	So that's what we did.
	We got a bunch of roasts.
	And you can see the weights of them here.
	They had neck diameters, if you will, approximating a human 17-inch.
	Let me steal man.
	The immediate rebuttal is going to be, on the one hand, this is meat from a bloodless animal already.
	So you're dealing with far less heavy fluid to change things.
	I would imagine the proteins in meat that's ready for sale that has been killed a little while ago is softer proteins.
	It begins to break down.
	I would imagine.
	And then the other argument is going to be that humans' upper body muscle meat tissue is a little bit stronger than a pig's in terms of the way we've evolved to be upright and have to have stronger muscles up there than pigs, which are sort of, you know, still on all fours.
	So some might argue that it's going to be a useless study because these three points are going to make the results indicative maybe, but not comparable.
	All right.
	Let me see if I can take those one at a time.
	So first off, muscle is denser than blood, right?
	So this is actually going to be a more dense approximation.
	Two, you know, we did it.
	We warmed them up to room temperature as much as we could.
	So it was a 70-degree day, but we brought them up so they were basically body temperature as much as we could, but they were cooling down.
	So best we could.
	Three, this is way better than a gel block in terms of approximating a human neck.
	so you do the best you can right um short of getting cadavers and warming them up and filling them with blood and having at it um this this is the best we felt we could sort of do but But the results were so conclusive.
	It's really difficult to get past.
	So anyway, a boneless leg roast, it's not going to hit any bone, but we did get a bunch of them with bones in because we just want like, was there anything that could actually stop one of these rounds?
	That was our question.
	And I presume the distance, obviously the distance would have to be the same, 200 meters.
	He shot from 140 yards.
	The best we could do is here.
	We shot with the Remington 700.
	It's a bolt action.
	So he was also using a bolt action.
	He was using a Mauser Model 98, but same barrel length in this thing.
	And we were shooting down at a 10 degree and off by a 10 degree angle.
	So we mimicked both of those.
	But to get those angles, we had to shoot from 100 yards, not 140.
	So close, but we wanted to get the angles more than we wanted to get the exact distance.
	Okay.
	All right.
	So that's what we did.
	And we used a couple of different cameras.
	We have the GoPro Hero 12 Black shoots at 260 frames per second.
	And then we have the Xiaomi 15 Ultra, which was kind of a pain.
	Nick figured out how to get it to work.
	It showed up with only Chinese instructions on it, but it will shoot in bursts of 480 frames per second for about three seconds.
	So we got a remote timer to start it, take the shot, and then we could get all of the data off of that.
	So we were able to see some really cool stuff, really cool stuff.
	These are the different rounds we used.
	So, you know, we kept all the data.
	This is just how you do this stuff.
	Keep the data as best you can.
	We're going to shoot these next, though.
	We're still trying to find a source for these 110 grains.
	They don't make them anymore.
	But that would be really awesome because this thing's coming at 2,800 foot pounds, but 3,400 feet per second.
	But we have these two on order.
	A very light load.
	They're called reduced recoil.
	So their job is to not hurt your shoulder so much, but maybe that would mimic grandpa's bad ammo.
	And then we have these 125 grain coming out very fast, very hot.
	So we just wanted to try everything.
	So we'll be doing a couple more experiments this week when that stuff finally runs.
	So what happened over and over and over again was we would shoot these things.
	So here we are.
	This is taken, this is the GoPro side, and we're just running this.
	And so we're slowing this to about 2%.
	And we put a target back there so we could see exactly where the bullet went through, if it was going to go through every single bullet just to cut to the chase.
	Viva, all 38 went straight through, whether they were going through bone, whether they were going through just muscle only, didn't matter.
	They just made an extraordinary mess out of things.
	Well, and let me ask you this, going back to the hot round versus decayed round.
	I mean, I don't know if you've done any degraded ammunition at 50%, 80%, whatever.
	On the one hand, any lower or degraded powder?
	Or I don't know if you can have these bullets that are designed to fragment on impact.
	I was Googling that, or a tip that exploded on impact, fragmented on impact.
	Yeah, they're called frangible rounds.
	We have an order for some of those to come in as well.
	Again, these are kind of specialty rounds.
	They're hard to locate.
	So we had to order them special.
	This wouldn't be the kind of thing a kid who sort of has some shooting experience is not really deep into the reloading, sort of like, you know, gun nut territory.
	Well, it sounded like he sounded like he might have been.
	I don't know what he meant by engraving or etching messages if he's doing it with like an engraver or just with a with a penknife.
	And whether or not he, again, we don't know with a search rick.
	I don't know if there's a way to turn a standard projectile into a fragmenting projectile by like, you know, something like what Robert De Niro did or any other method.
	It's tricky.
	I mean, you could etch an X in it.
	You would otherwise just, I mean, go get a hollow point and off you would go.
	But if you do etch into it and you don't do it perfectly or you weaken it too much, these things are, there's a good chance it's just going to fly apart, right?
	If you overcut.
	Or if you cut in its off axis, it's going to do something really funky, you know, potentially spin out of control.
	So this is what it looked like.
	We had a backstop, just made holes in it every single time.
	We just saw a hole after hole after hole.
	This is what it looked like when we were just shooting the full metal jackets.
	They just made a little hole in the front, big old hole in the back, just threw them through.
	You can see the little holes as they went through back here.
	So we shot that over and over and over again.
	So now here's where we're using.
	We'll just do this one too, but we just kept, we were trying so hard to just get something to stop or even deflect, like meaningfully just not go straight through.
	And we couldn't get anything to not go straight through.
	The energy is extraordinary.
	This broke the, we have 12 gauge copper wire holding the whole thing up, snapped it instantly.
	And this big scatter of junk back here, that's the bullet going through plus all the stuff it's carrying out the back, you know, muscle, meat, fat, out the back.
	It turns it into almost like an impromptu shotgun.
	And now, not to get ahead.
	So, I mean, I guess we understand this.
	You did it.
	You did a variety of bullets with what you consider to be the equivalent of a human comparison.
	And the bullet went through all of it.
	To jump ahead or jump back, you say, so the conclusion is it couldn't have been a 30-odd six.
	So either they're wrong on the bullet, setting aside whether or not it's a damaged round.
	So what's the other, what is the theory then?
	He got shot.
	What do you think?
	A different angle?
	And it could have been a 30-odd 6 or same angle, but it would have had to have been another bullet, another type, another type of round.
	Sorry.
	Well, regardless of, unless it was something really specialty, okay, we're talking, this gets esoteric, but you can load what's called a saboted round, where you have these plastic things that hold a little tiny projectile, like a 20, 25 grain, you know, something or other, that travels ridiculously fast, like 4,000 feet per second or more.
	It's very esoteric.
	They're kind of hard to find.
	You have to be into the reloading community.
	We don't know.
	But barring that, it's yes, if this was a 30-odd 6, the only way it would have stayed in his body is not if he was shot at a 10-10 angle, right?
	So this thing's coming in a little bit tipped down, a little bit to the side, but it's going straight through.
	The only way it comes into the body and stays is if it's shot, it comes down into the body, like this.
	It has to dump into the body.
	So it has to be shot from to his left and at a higher angle to come down into the body.
	Okay, let me ask you this.
	Most likely thing.
	The question that I just had, which I just forgot.
	Angle of the shot.
	Well, okay, but then, I mean, the crowd and everybody seems to have heard where the shot came from.
	I mean, there's no, is there, are you, you have to also be questioning where the shot came from?
	Oh, absolutely.
	So, so I haven't seen anything that says the crowd was really definitive about where the shot came from.
	Two, even if the crowd was sort of certain, this is probably the most auditorially challenging environment I could imagine, right?
	So eyewitnesses are questionable at best, but this would have been nothing but echoes and weird things.
	So I would discount any particular person unless they had a lot of training, exactly where they thought that came from.
	Very hard to figure out where a shot came from.
	I mean, listen, I hunt.
	Sometimes I'm out in the woods and you hear a shot, and I'm like, came from like this angle, like a quadrant over here.
	It's hard to tell where a shot comes from.
	But in that environment, it was nothing but hard surfaces.
	It's going to be nothing but echoes.
	As well, one other thing we have to account for: that shot would have come in and would have come in right over the top of his microphone, and that would have come back out the speakers.
	And that's going to also confuse people.
	Okay, so I guess the one question is going to be the exact position of his body and the movement of it when he got shot.
	The angle for it to have physically destroyed the heart, in addition to if your theory is correct, it would have to hit the brain as well to cause the involuntary spasm and the manner in which he bled out.
	I mean, I don't know if you've done the math.
	What angle would it have had to have come in on in order for that to happen?
	Because almost what you're describing, even by your own theory, sounds like it might be impossible unless it came straight from the top down, which nobody's suggesting it did.
	No, not from the top down.
	I mean, listen, it gets a little fuzzy, but somewhere around, if it's coming in at about a 30-degree angle instead of a 10-degree down angle, now it has an angle where it gets down in and it can hit something.
	But then, but then how does it get to the brain part to cause the involuntary spasm that you were describing earlier?
	Well, so there's there was this overpressure event, right?
	So, so let me let me look at this real quick.
	Um, I'm gonna take myself out again here.
	So, here are two frames.
	This is just before he's shot.
	This is after he's shot.
	This is from an audience participation video that was shot from the front.
	I've taken the liberty of outlining his neck area here, and so I take that same thing and I move it down onto this, which is the first frame of him being shot.
	Now, caveat: these people's phones are typically capturing at 30 frames per second.
	I don't know what their shutter speeds were because I don't have the metadata, but they might be at best 260.
	But more typically, they're going to be shooting somewhere in the 100, 150 frames per second.
	But this is 130th of a second.
	This is before he got shot.
	This is right after.
	Notice this size of his neck when we drop it down here.
	You see all this neck over here and over here?
	You see how much wider it is?
	See how much how big everything is?
	It's puffy.
	I mean, definitively, I mean, it's obviously pixelated and we're dealing with a compression, but obviously, because he just got shot, right?
	And that's called cavitation.
	That's this overpressure.
	There's some high-speed round is dumped in his body.
	It's expended all its energy in his body cavity.
	They told us bones of steel or whatever the story was, not going with that.
	But we can see that overpressure event very quickly, just to put this to bed.
	That's the lapel mic.
	There's the lapel mic.
	Anything that you imagine, like C4 explosives or some magic explosives, C4 explodes at 26,000 feet per second.
	It's impossible for something to explode and 1 30th of a second later still be in frame.
	It would be 800 feet away.
	Say that the lapel mic, it's the most outlandish because It's proposing something that's so immensely more complicated.
	And just, I don't think anybody watching is plausibly giving credence to that.
	My only bottom line to you, Chris, is that this could all be explained depending on a fragmenting of the round that's abnormal or a possible degraded gunpowder so that it wasn't traveling with the same velocity.
	And I want to check the angle.
	I mean, I take your word on a matter of fact of the angle.
	But in terms of the angle coming down and then something already coming down at a downward angle and then, for whatever the reason, refracting down, yeah, it's traveling fast, but between that, and I'm not trusting the FBI's narrative, just between that as an explanation, well, it was already on a downward angle, hit whatever, and broke off into different areas.
	Between that and the bullet came from, I'm reading the chat, a drone in the sky, where people heard a shot from the crowd.
	I mean, I don't know what you would have heard from in terms of the acoustics from a drone in the sky, or another sniper who's taking the shot.
	And then you have to say, okay, well, he was then a Patsy who was there to actually not take the shot.
	And then there's this magical shot that we have no testimony of, no evidence of.
	Set aside the FBI narrative, no corroborating evidence of.
	I mean, you're dealing with positing a far more outlandish theory than the reasonable interpretation based on the existence of the evidence that we have.
	Actually, what I'm doing is I'm just telling you that the physics of what we've been told doesn't stack up.
	So we're going to have to come up with some other explanation, I think, right?
	And at present, we don't have any evidence that a bullet, your idea that it hits his neck and immediately starts to fragment.
	Do you imagine that's at its surface of his skin?
	Would you imagine it's penetrated a half inch, a full inch?
	Has the round gone all the way in?
	So you have to imagine.
	Take this out so I can see your face unless we need to come back to that.
	No, I would say, you know, you're dealing with something that could fragment upon any interference other than air pressure.
	And the angle is, I mean, the angle, it was pretty elevated.
	And to hit, I mean, I don't know what we know of it having hit the spinal cord yet in the back and then ricocheting down and then obliterating the heart.
	You know, look, I'm not, it's before I would defy that most plausible explanation.
	What you're positing has to be either it was a different type of round and they've made a mistake on that, which, you know, that's also entirely plausible.
	Fine, he shot it and it wasn't a 30-06.
	It was something else.
	Okay, so they're either lying for whatever the reason, they're incompetent and can't identify the bullets, or it was some sort of specialty tinkering.
	But what are you suggesting in terms of where the bullet came from?
	And then what would be the plausibility based on the layout as to where it could have come from?
	It's exactly the title I have here, which is it's not possible that it was a 30-06 asterisk, unless they use some super hyper-specialty round.
	We'll test those.
	Here's the thing: if they had posited it was a 556 or 223, right?
	Okay, you know, these things happen and they do tend to tumble and sometimes they're tumbling mid-flight and all kinds of stuff, right?
	But that's such a different thing.
	It's kind of like saying, hey, you know, my three-year-old ran into me with his tricycle compared to my 16-year-old backed over me in a Humvee, right?
	It's just the physics of a 30-06 round.
	It's so beastly.
	These things, they don't.
	We shot it straight through.
	Explain everything.
	Explain tumbling for those who don't know.
	So a round is thrown like a football.
	It has a spin on it.
	So a barrel has rifling in it, it's called.
	And that's why it's called a rifle.
	A rifle has rifling.
	And the bullet's shot and it starts at spinning.
	And it spins at super high rates, like, you know, tens of thousands of RPMs, right?
	So if it's going, if it's spinning, that football, if you just sort of threw a football sideways, it might tumble.
	If you throw a spin on it, you get a nice spiral on that thing.
	It's going to do one of those things, right?
	So, spinning gives you aerodynamic stability.
	It means you can pass through a lot of air and you're still doing this, which you want to do.
	Because if you start tumbling, well, now, you know, accuracy and aim goes right out the window.
	So, some bullets have a much higher tendency to tumble, right?
	And for reasons, they're either aerodynamically unstable, the barrel that they're being shot out of is extremely fouled or something.
	But 556, 223 rounds, they're kind of known for tumbling.
	They will tumble a lot more easily, not only in the air, but once they hit something, because they're very light, they only weigh 55 grains.
	These other bullets we're talking about are 150 grains up to 220.
	They're heavy, big, heavy things.
	So, tumbling can happen.
	It's just very unlikely with a heavy round that's got a good spin on it because it's big, heavy round.
	Yeah, so the 30 ought six, typically 110 to 220 grains, which would give it the velocity to not tumble as much as a lighter grain round.
	All right, most common is 150 to 180.
	Those are going to be the most common rounds people are going to use.
	The 220, that's what you use to take down moose, giant bears, you know, things like that.
	Um, but yeah, so all right.
	Well, let me show you.
	So, so, so, we knew some other stuff had happened, right?
	Um, and we saw that day, we saw that his when he was shot, you could see very clearly he's facing forward, he leans forward, he's he's not twisted to the side, and then you see this chain flying up off of his neck right here, right?
	Some people thought it was an earpiece on the first day, but that's his chain.
	It was holding a cross pendant.
	He comes up, there's the decorticate posturing as he comes up like that.
	Um, and so this gives us a lot of information.
	You see these weird things the t-shirts were doing, and so some people had said, Hey, if anybody can recreate that weird thing that the t-shirt is doing or explain the broken necklace, you know, we're kind of interested.
	So, that's what we did.
	We poured a gel mold, you know, with a bucket on top and a blob at the bottom to sort of mimic a neck and a body, right?
	And we put a chain necklace about the right length on there with a pendant.
	We didn't get this picture until after we'd run our things, but we picked right.
	It's about the right size.
	If I can ask you, what was the um, what's the material of uh Charlie's necklace?
	This is a silver chain that we had gotten, um, and the cross is just whatever that was.
	I don't know what that's made out of.
	Okay, and then I'll have a follow-up question here.
	I'll take myself out.
	And then, um, then we put a t-shirt on it, we set the whole thing up on a block of wood, but now we're shooting down into it from what we think is an appropriate angle to see if we can recreate because we want the bullet to stick in there to see if we can create what's called this cavitation overpressure event.
	So, what we're going to see here is a shot taken from about 60 degrees.
	That's what it would have looked like in real time.
	Like, if you, if you just watch that, it's over so fast.
	Boom, done, right?
	Just take the shot.
	Okay, what did we see?
	Let's slow that down.
	Let's take a look at this together.
	So, first, this is from the GoPro camera.
	That's frame one, frame two, frame three.
	You can already see the necklace is broken.
	Frame four and five.
	And now you can see the t-shirts doing all kinds of crazy gyrations and dancing.
	And this is doing a lot of people are going to say that this ballistics gel is not intended to replicate.
	I mean, it was intended to replicate something similar to a human, but with handguns, and it's not at all the consistency of a human torso.
	And so, whatever this is, I mean, some people are just going to say this is an absolutely irrelevant comparison because the gelatin is not the consistency of a human body, and it wasn't intended to be tested on rifle shots.
	And so, everything else they'll disregard.
	Well, you got to do something, right?
	So what's fascinating is we get to see a cavitation event breaks the chain, creates all this weird anomalous motion in his t-shirt, right?
	And that does recreate what we saw very, very accurately.
	Let me ask you, did you do this from the official narrative angle?
	We did.
	We did one.
	So this is what it looks like just shooting from here.
	And, you know, this is from the other camera.
	This is from the Xiaomi.
	So this takes like exquisitely good.
	good pictures.
	So at least we can see, yeah, you know what?
	When you get shot with a high-speed round, that's what happens because it's dumping all of its energy into that gel block.
	The thing weighed, I don't know, 50 pounds, and it lifted it right up, threw it right off of the stand and, you know, made it fly away.
	Probably jumped, I don't know, foot and a half in the air.
	So that's the kind of energy we're dealing with.
	All right.
	And then here, yeah.
	So here we shot, here we're shooting only the neck.
	We're not shooting down into it.
	This is just a shot through the neck.
	And again, this is from that 1010 angle about 100 yards away.
	And you watch that, boom, that's it.
	That's very uninteresting, right?
	Like, oh, what happened?
	You know, but when you slow this down, it's pretty astonishing to see what happens here.
	So this is just shot straight through the neck, goes straight through the back, obviously.
	And this is the behavior you start to see here.
	And you can see even when we shot just through the neck like this, the chain still broke.
	You had all this anomalous over pressure cavitation stuff.
	And you're right.
	This is not like a human body because we don't have bones in here.
	So when we're dumping down into a human torso, you've got a collarbone, you got a rib cage, you got a spinal column, you got a head holding it on.
	It's a very different situation.
	But again, broke the chain three out of three times just because of that severe overpressure event.
	So I think this at least for me confirms the idea here that what we're seeing in Charlie was a severe overpressure event, which helps guide us in.
	So this helps allows me at least to exclude the idea that he was shot with a palm pistol or something that's got just not a lot of energy in it, right?
	And we've already established, A, we've got the supersonic crack, we got the thump, so I think we're still dealing with a high-speed rifle round.
	But this level of overpressure that would have broken his chain and caused his heart to stop immediately requires, that's a high-energy event.
	So I can say that.
	I'm pretty confident with that.
	High confidence.
	He had a very high energy projectile that entered his body and it didn't leave.
	And it looks like this.
	That's what happens when that happens.
	Well, and again, like, I'll ask a stupid question, but I'll ask it anyhow.
	How about a high-energy tumbling round?
	I appreciate that the higher the energy, the less likely it is to tumble.
	But if it is a high-energy tumbling round, that might explain something more of this type of internal catastrophic injury that you would have.
	I don't know how that, I don't even know how it would happen, but I would imagine it's within the realm of possibility to have a clearly high velocity, clearly supersonic.
	And if itself is, if it doesn't fragment into a number of pieces and go in various directions in the body, if it's tumbling, that could account for it.
	So what would happen?
	One way that can happen is if grandpa shot the rifle for like 50 years and never cleaned it.
	So it doesn't have a rifled barrel anymore because it's fouled with lead, with copper jacketing, with gunpowder.
	If it's a fully fouled barrel, basically you're shooting a musket, right?
	Just shove this bullet out and it's going to do whatever.
	That's a possibility.
	I know everybody in the crowd is much more gun savvy than I am.
	And I took the course in Canada and that is the difference between a rifle and the musket is that it's a ball going down and once it gets out, it's like a fastball going anywhere versus a rifle, which is which has a spiral on the inside.
	It twists the bullet so that it has more accuracy and more distance.
	So, I mean, Chris, that's a big, I don't want to, it's not a question of proving right or wrong.
	That's a big concession to that that could be married with the official narrative.
	A poorly cleaned 100-year-old rifle that caused this high projectile velocity, high-velocity projectile to tumble, hits the neck, goes in various areas, obliterates the heart, and severs the spinal cord, however, close to the brain is required for the immediate contraction.
	And that seems to be something that could be paired with the information being given by the FBI.
	It's possible, but now we have to start stacking up a lot of ifs, right?
	If the gun is fouled, if the ammunition was degraded, and that's not a necessary condition for this one, but if he had it disassembled and he climbs over and he reassembles it, and if it's still roughly shooting true, and if he takes that one shot, and if despite tumbling, it still goes on target, um, that's a lot of that's a very unlucky day.
	He's, I mean, he's using a hundred-year-old, allegedly, a very old rifle.
	Um, that seems, I would just go there because I guess the alternative then is by your theory or by your skepticism with that layout, where do you think the shot would have had to have come from?
	Because from the angle you're describing, you don't have many options left.
	Well, as soon as we get the autopsy report, assuming they do a non-bad job with it, right?
	Um, if we could just get x-rays to find out how many fragments were in his body and where they were, and if we could actually get an indication of where that bullet struck first, because it's gonna strike somewhere first, right?
	Now, what we heard, now this is hearsay.
	Andrew Colvette said that he'd heard that his C2 through C7 were wrecked and that there was a bullet.
	I don't know what that means, a fragment or a large enough fragment to call it a bullet, was lodged right near his T1 under the skin near the scapula on the left side.
	So now we have to account for a bullet that somehow entered here, damaged all these things up here, and ended up down here.
	It's getting that's that's a little weird.
	Now that's hearsay, so I don't want to put too much on it.
	No, for sure, but let me ask you this because we know the layout and it's a limited layout.
	And if the idea is that you say that it would have to come in at what a 20-degree angle, I don't want to misquote you.
	There's only so many places it could come from unless you're talking about a you know a two-kilometer shot.
	But even then, you could you could check the perimeter to see what building, what platform would offer a 20-degree angle within however many yards.
	Have you done that?
	Yeah, the only place that that sort of fits the bill on that front, but Pierre, I don't want to get caught in an assumption.
	Our assumption is that it had to be another sniper just sitting there just like this guy was.
	And so we have to account for that location because there's a lot of fancy stuff out there now, right?
	You've got platforms that can shoot from remotely.
	You've got, I mean, I just want to leave myself open to the idea that I'm not locked into this idea that I have to account for a person lying prone on another roof.
	But if we do that, we're in the Sorensen center, which is the one right to his left.
	Now, there's some possible shooting locations, but his left being Charlie's left.
	Yeah.
	All right.
	Okay.
	Because, you know, I'm this guy.
	So I did all, I did a lot of audio analysis for the Butler shooting for Trump, right?
	And we had a whole citizens investigation.
	We looked at all lots and lots of different things.
	And I just kept getting stuck on this one piece of data that I couldn't get past, which is that the first three shots in Butler, they're about 0.75 seconds apart.
	The echoes off of those don't match the next five.
	And echoes are really hard to get wrong, right?
	And this is what that looked like.
	I definitively remember that one.
	And then the question was: the last one was the sniper taking out the shooter.
	Yeah, that's this one way over here, but that's him.
	Yeah, that's fine.
	That comes from all the way across.
	But you have these first three shots, which are these low register things.
	And these little things afterwards are the echoes coming off of it.
	And the echoes are about 0.08 seconds for those first three.
	And then there are these next five shots that come out really fast.
	I mean, if you're in the shooting world, these things had splits of like 0.16, 0.17 seconds.
	Like this is, we're talking Jerry Mitchell like fast.
	Like these were really good.
	World, like it was fast.
	So the kid's twitchy.
	I mean, he's, I don't know, whatever.
	But you can clearly see the echoes here are twice as long.
	That's so hard to replicate.
	And listen, I'm not saying I know what happened here.
	I'm just saying that if we'd had an honest inquiry from the FBI, they would have gone back on a Jane, on a July day, and showed exactly how they could recreate that.
	It's possible that when the barrel is over the roof peak, you get those echoes.
	And if he pulled back for the next five, you would get different echoes, but they would have demonstrated that chirping crickets.
	Yeah, well, the Butler one, especially now what came out in the last week in terms of what was not revealed or misled about Crooks, which is why I understand everybody not trusting the FBI into Lady Brown when the all-caps viva.
	I'm not making excuses for the FBI, and people really have to appreciate that not adhering to every conspiracy theory is not believing everything that we're being told.
	The question is this: he was shot.
	It was a high-velocity supersonic round.
	If your argument is that it came from 28 degrees, which would be the angle that would explain the type of damage, although we still haven't figured out even at that angle how it would hit the part of the brain that would be necessary to the clenching part, which is why I think that I would question that premise of your theory.
	There's only so many places where you could posit it that would have come from.
	And then the question is: is there any remote evidence to suggest that a shot actually came from that alternate location?
	Because you're going to be down to a very few amounts, if only one.
	And is there any indication anywhere from anybody that the shot came from that or that the shooter was in that alternative location?
	Well, to deal with the possible brain injury leading to the we have this severe overpressure event.
	So some of that may have traveled back up the spinal column and maybe it caused that reaction.
	I don't know.
	I just don't have enough experimental data to go on.
	It's just a hypothesis, but he had a huge overpressure event.
	I think that accounts for his immediate stopping of the heart.
	Somehow we have to account for that overpressure in the brain, which caused that other issue as well.
	And if it turns out that these vertebrae up here were truly wrecked, like if that comes out, now we're going to have to account for that too.
	It's very, very, very unlikely, even with a tumbling round, that we're going to be able to account for a bullet coming in and then traveling up because it would enter here and has to go all the way up here to wreck the C2.
	C2 is way up here, just behind your ear.
	Yeah, well, so I didn't know.
	I don't remember exactly which one, Colve, which vertebrae Colve said were damaged.
	Yeah, so if he's right, fine.
	If he's wrong and made a mistake on which vertebrae he's talking about, I don't know what they're called, the ones in the back of the neck, and then it travels down and obliterates the heart.
	All right.
	Look, it's your theory is, which is why I suspect you're more amenable to discussing it publicly, is not quite as outlandish as some of the other ones, which come to definitive conclusions of culprit before there's any evidence remotely to suggest it.
	Let me bring up one thing here.
	I saw two.
	I don't know how much time you have left, Chris, but I'll just read two of these.
	Masad assassinates people all over the planet.
	Dancing Israelis 9-11, USS Liberty.
	Yada yada.
	IDF for Charlie BB denial email threats.
	Okay, 808 Scott, he's not crazy.
	And I appreciate that BB coming out and making a statement that about Charlie not going to be able to come on the trip to Israel when he had already declined it, doing himself no favors.
	King of Biltong says, thank you for always hosting a great show, Viva.
	I'm sure many are interested in this, but I cannot join.
	It's a bit much.
	See you guys tomorrow.
	Okay, I mean, the bottom line.
	So to your theory, you don't believe this is a 30 odd six.
	There are ways where it could be.
	You just say it requires a lot of ifs.
	Wait for the bullet.
	And then if it's not a 30-odd six, you know, it's interesting.
	They've identified it based on the casing.
	And people in the chat are saying you could make a tumbling 30-06 that's, you know, has bad gunpowder.
	Well, what's your ultimate conclusion other than just not believing what the FBI is telling you?
	Well, so, and again, maybe I didn't set this up properly.
	So, so, so these are 30, 30 deer rounds, right?
	And I'm, you know, and that's a much smaller round.
	And I'm raising that because I reloaded these.
	I've been a gun nut for a long time.
	I reload.
	I've shot half a million rounds.
	I've shot a lot of things at the range.
	And I'm kind of, if you might have noticed, I'm a numbers guy.
	So I just know that when you get up into these, the big giants, you know, 30 ought six cigars, right?
	The forces are just so extraordinary.
	Like everybody I know who has ballistic experience, who's a hunter, who's had that experience, has said the same thing, which is like, no.
	Oh, I almost forgot the most important one, Chris.
	Martin Luther King, shot with a 30-odd six, didn't exit the body.
	He was shot here.
	He was hit in his mandible.
	This is where it first struck, and it made a big, giant tear, shattered the mandible, and it sprayed and completely disintegrated.
	And it's all his x-rays, it's all up and shot through here.
	This is one of the hardest bones in the body.
	Okay.
	So as soon as something strikes something hard, like a mandible or a femur, I got it.
	We're going to fragment.
	And now we're going to be talking about fragmented rounds and what they're going to do.
	But that was a completely different shoot.
	Although this is just such, it's the softest.
	It's the softest, easiest thing.
	Like you can just take a knife and poke it right through that spot on somebody and it's just going straight through.
	It's just, it's, it's really a lot to ask me to believe that somehow a competent 30 ought six round didn't just throw and throw.
	In fact, when we were all done, we stacked up all these pieces of meat, their little ruin.
	We asked, could 20 inches of meat stop these rounds?
	And the answer was no.
	All of them went right through.
	It's just the forces are so big.
	It's just not what I love is people think bullets and they think they're all the same, but these are all different.
	All of them behave differently.
	And 30 odd six is like a massive round.
	Scooter McDuda says, 30 odd six hunter here, this dude is a fool.
	And I don't know if he's talking about me or you, Chris.
	So I don't know if I should get offended.
	Look, the thing is this, I've heard people who I know know much more about firearms and ammunition than me say weird things do happen.
	This is, to me, even the angles here were not beyond the realm of, this is not a magic bullet like the JFK bullet.
	Even according to my, if you want to accuse me of believing the FBI narrative, we're not within like the 180, one bullet hitting in three different spots.
	We're just arguing about angles and what is a likely shift in trajectory and what would be required to have that shift in trajectory.
	And so the bottom line conclusion here, you know, even if you're right, Chris, is okay, they made a mistake on the bullet.
	Why are they making a mistake on the bullet?
	Like maybe they've already acknowledged it and they don't want to admit it now because they've got a trial coming up, whatever.
	They're going to look like buffoons if they're trying to prove a case beyond a reasonable doubt.
	Or there was a, you know, the only alternative as to where the shot could have come from is a building.
	What was the name of the building?
	Sorensen.
	Sorensen.
	Look at the aggregate knowledge of the interwebs to see that, but to check that up and see if it is even remotely.
	Well, if I'm his defense team, I just say, hey, I'm looking for reasonable doubt.
	Like, hey, yeah, he was there that day.
	And yep, he actually brought his rifle because he'd been talking with this guy for a while, you know, and this guy said, hey, bring it.
	And he thought he was going to take a shot.
	And all of a sudden, a shot rings out.
	He freaks out.
	He just gets up and he runs immediately.
	Yeah, see, call me an idiot.
	That would not convince me.
	Would not provide any reasonable doubt to me.
	And maybe it's because I'm stupid, and maybe it's because I'm swayed by the initial reports and the initial narrative.
	I would be much more inclined to believe that at the angle, 10, 11 degrees, the tumbling round, if it's an unclean barrel, it's 100 years old, the gunpowder improperly stored, who the hell knows until evidence to the cont until any meaningful evidence to propose and support an alternative theory.
	But I'll be nice.
	Look, I understand it now.
	And it's, it's, so if I can appreciate it.
	But if I'm as if I'm his defense team, I'm getting my hands on that gun.
	I'm getting my hands on that particular ammo.
	I'm investigating all of it.
	And if the gun isn't fouled and that ammo is clean, I'm just telling you, reasonable doubt way beyond this.
	It just, it just, no, a human neck is not altering the trajectory of a standard 30-aught six round.
	It's just, it's such an infinitesimally small thing that it defies everything that we would have to understand.
	Chris, I'm going to go over to locals.
	I don't expect you to come with me.
	I'm going to have our locals after party.
	Where can people find you?
	And what's next on your schedule?
	Hey, peakprosperity.com, Chris Martinson.
	I don't know if you have it spelled out on the name down there, but M-A-R-T-E-N-S-O-N.
	I'm on Twitter.
	I'm with my tribe all the time.
	I put out a lot of content at my site.
	Again, I'm mostly usually focused on economic stuff.
	And because I think that, yeah, if you hated the 99.95% survival rate of COVID, you're going to hate this when this bubble bursts on the AI side.
	Bart said we had to get into it.
	We'll save that for a separate discussion.
	So if let's leave not financial advice, but if you think the bubble is going to burst short of selling short NVIDIA, what do you want to do to profit off of the collapse?
	This is a time, this is one of the oldest stories in the book.
	It's called a wealth transfer, right?
	It's when bubbles burst.
	A lot of wealth gets transferred.
	Later, they say, oh, wealth got destroyed, middle class got wiped out.
	But if you watch carefully, ownership of all the key assets is transfers, right?
	And so to avoid that, you want hard assets, land, rocks, trees, gold, silver, lead, hard assets is what I think is the answer here.
	I heard baseball cards and all of that as well.
	That's good.
	Tangible.
	If you can hold it in your hand and understand it, we're talking.
	And if you can hide it in your butt, if you need to flee with it, all the better.
	Even better.
	Even better.
	Send me whatever links you want me to put in the pinned comment when this process is.
	I'll put it up in the pinned comment.
	And let's do this again.
	It was great talking to you again.
	Okay.
	Thanks.
	All right, man.
	Awesome.
	All right.
	Good day.
	You too.
	Bye.
	So that's it.
	Now we got to get Ian Carroll on.
	I want to know how Israel did this.
	Bada bing, bada boom.
	I'm joking.
	I, you know, I still get along with Ian.
	People are entitled to have beliefs that I think are untenable without them immediately becoming bad people, where people, you know, have been treading a line and crossing a line, has been making accusations of specific people baselessly, thoughtlessly, and remorselessly.
	Viva has a hard asset, but he works out.
	Speaking of which, I didn't exercise earlier today because I had to take my kid to we homeschool, but we have these occasional classes that have other teachers teaching our kid.
	All right.
	That was amazing.
	And I hope everyone appreciated it.
	It's a difficult, I mean, it's the fundamentally upsetting thing about it is, you know, you're having theoretical, mathematical, evidentiary discussions about someone who is a friend to many of us and a human.
	And this is like the what, you know, this is what people don't necessarily appreciate from the practice of law, from the practice of medicine is you dissociate in the analysis from the human being that was or that is at the end of the discussion so that you can have the theoretical debates and providing the evidence, proving the evidence beyond a reasonable doubt.
	That was Charlie Kirk.
	And the legacy, my ultimate black pill fear in all of this is the let, you know, people, people move on.
	And no matter how much commemoration you do, people move on.
	And people should not move on from this.
	They should not move on from turning point.
	They should not move on from what Charlie Kirk was.
	And he was an amazing person.
	And he was someone who lived by the biblical proverb of discussion and words.
	And, you know, it just takes a nutbag who thinks they're proving a righteous point to cause immeasurable pain and suffering.
	All right, we're going to go raid.
	I think Redacted is live right now.
	So let's go raid Redacted.
	If you want to come over to vivabarneslaw.locals.com, we're going to have our after party.
	And that's it.
	We're going to talk about a couple of things as relates to Thomas Crooks and some recent revelations of Thomas Crooks that seem to mirror the radicalization and the fact pattern in the Charlie Kirk assassination.
	Did I give everybody the link to Viva Barnes Law?
	If you want to get some merch, vivafry.com, check out Chris Martinson at Peak Prosperity.
	But here's the link to locals.
	Oh, I see.
	Well, NeuroDivergent is one step ahead of me.
	And now we're going to go raid Redacted.
	Let them know from whence you came and say hello to them for me.
	And I do that by going to our chat and saying forward slash raid.
	Go, enjoy it.
	And I will see you all tomorrow.
	Same bad time, same bad channel.
	Viva Fry peeps.
	Locals, here we come.
	Raid is confirmed.
	And now we're going to go to first of all, make sure I didn't miss anything here.
	I want to see what the chat says.
	Oh, I missed a bunch of tip questions on.
	Oh, Viva Fry, since Martinson's expertise is money per se and he's on to discuss Kirk, please ask about the issues surrounding TPO accounting practices, says Mr. Mike.
	There's possible motives behind the numbers.
	Please see comments.
	Okay.
	Well, I might have to ask him about that later.
	Let's just do this before we hit up.
	No, we're saving that for the after party.
	We're going over to locals right now.
	Rumble, I will see you tomorrow.

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