The Unexplained - Howard Hughes - Edition 800 - Nick Pope/Paul Sinclair

March 17, 2024 - The Unexplained - Howard Hughes

01:31:37

Edition 800 - Nick Pope/Paul Sinclair

On this 800th Edition, Howard talks about his radio life, Nick Pope, Steve Bassett and Peter Robbins comment on the recent and very controversial AARO UAP Report... What now for "disclosure"? And Truth Proof's Paul Sinclair answers your questions.

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	Across the UK, across continental North America and around the world on the internet, by webcast and by podcast, my name is Howard Hughes and this is The Unexplained.
	You know, those words I came up with, I think, from edition two of The Unexplained.
	The first one I did, I didn't have a theme tune and I just went straight into it.
	Now, over the years, those words have become part of the theater of this show.
	And I do believe that radio or broadcasting, whether you're doing serious news or playing records on the air, and I've done all of those things and more, it is a little bit of theatre.
	You owe people a show whenever you go on.
	And if you think that you can just sit there and say anything you like exactly how you like and don't give it a bit of polish, not that I'm saying I ever am capable of doing that, but I think you're wrong.
	There has to be an element of showmanship about it.
	And the truth of it is that the person that you are when you're doing a podcast or you're going in front of a microphone on the radio or doing a commentary on TV, as my great hero in broadcasting Terry Wogan used to say, you have to be yourself, but a slight exaggeration of yourself, slightly bigger.
	And that's the place that I think, after all of these years, for good or bad, that I've got to.
	So here we are at edition 800 of The Unexplained.
	And you know that we had a big debate about which big guests should we try to get for it?
	And should I do my life story?
	And at the end of the day, I've come to a decision.
	And maybe I will make a different decision if and when we get to edition 1000.
	But the decision that I've come to is that I'm going to do a slightly longer but regular show.
	And it will be a show that features recent material that was on the radio.
	But if anything showcases the stuff that I do, this probably does.
	So that's what I've decided to do.
	But what I can say, before we go any further with any of this, are just a few words about the life that I've led and being on the radio.
	You know, I've been on the radio now all of my working life.
	I've never known what it's like not to be in front of a microphone.
	It's been the way that I've made my living.
	I don't think I'm capable of anything else.
	So that's what I've done.
	And I had wonderful parents, a marvelous Liverpool mum and dad, who supported me.
	They gave over their living room to me in the years before I left home and helped me to equip that.
	My dad used to spend money that he didn't have, buying me microphones and recorders, you know, cassette recorders and real tape recorders in those days, and of course, turntables and records, all the things that you needed.
	I had a wonderful start, and I had a wonderful start in a wonderful city, Liverpool.
	Even though I don't live there now, because in the days when I started, if you wanted to get on, you probably had to come to London, and that's what I did, ultimately, via many other cities and towns across the UK.
	But I had the greatest start.
	School was not great.
	Here I am telling my life story, but school was not great.
	The school that I went to from 11 to 14 was what they call a secondary, modern school.
	Modern it was not.
	Secondary it definitely was in many, many ways.
	There were people who doled out punishments quite freely there, and one day I will write and talk more about that.
	But because I was interested in radio and speaking and those things, I didn't fit in.
	The teachers and some of my fellow pupils only believed in prowess on the sports field, or if you were good with your hands, that I never really was.
	You know, I can do a little bit of electronics, but that's about it.
	My life changed when we became a comprehensive school and we merged with the girls' grammar school.
	And the teachers from that school took an interest in me, listened to my hopes and ambitions and dreams, and helped me to achieve them.
	And without them, Chesterfield Road High School in Crosby, I would never have got anywhere.
	I remember sitting there in a session with one teacher who said, you should be thinking about going to university.
	And I said, people who come from my background don't go to university.
	Nobody ever has.
	She said, these days, people do.
	And I did.
	Then I was lucky again that commercial radio had come to Liverpool and I got myself on there.
	And they paid to train me.
	They sent me away to a university to get a journalism diploma on top of my degree.
	And they gave me a tough but excellent training that has stood me in good stead right up to today.
	And I will forever be grateful to Radio City.
	There's an awful lot to say, and I'm not going to say it because I said I wasn't going to do my life story.
	But all I can say is that over my years of doing what I do, I've learned many things.
	And I've learned that some people are genuine, honest, lifelong friends.
	There were people like my boss at Independent Radio News when that was based at LBC, John Perkins, who stood behind me.
	He was managing director of Independent Radio News.
	Stood behind me, backed me, supported me all the way.
	And when he died a year ago, I cried because he was a good man who believed in fairness.
	Not everybody does.
	Also, I was a little naive.
	I was for 10 years on Europe's top Morning Drive radio show, and I allowed them to pay me just a standard salary for a journalist over all of those years, you know, slightly higher than the lowest grade.
	But I didn't realize that other people were making fortunes.
	So the fact that I'm in the position that I'm in now is partly down to that.
	But, you know, no regrets.
	I believed at that time, if you'd asked me when I was there, what the driving force was behind me, I wanted to be number one, the best, if I could be.
	I wanted to enjoy what I was doing, the thing that I loved doing, and money didn't matter to me.
	And I will probably be the same now.
	But, you know, they did, I think, underpay me, and reality has hit in the last few years.
	You know, that's one truth that I will put in the book that if it gets written will feature a lot of things.
	Many, many good and wonderful and beautiful experiences, like being sent to South Africa to train broadcasters, like being trained by Radio Clyde in Glasgow.
	I went on a short training course there at 21, and then years later, I was invited back by the people who founded Radio Clyde to train people from radio stations that they owned all over Scotland by then.
	That was wonderful.
	But there are azillion experiences and the meeting the pop stars, getting to shake hands with Paul McCartney and meet David Bowie and talk to a lot of people who were famous, Lionel Ritchie and Elvis Costello, and the Pet Shop Boys and, oh, Lord Blondie, Debbie Harry, I met her, interviewed her, and many, many more.
	And the chance to go on a stage and speak to 100,000 people at Hyde Park.
	I had that.
	All my life, though, I've been interested in the stuff that I talk about on The Unexplained.
	And you will have noticed this program is different, if you can call it a program.
	It's been different over the years to other podcasts that only talk about the ghosts or only talk about the UFOs.
	I try and keep it newsy, and I try and make it along the lines of you buy a newspaper in the days when people did.
	The cool stories, the ones that you go to about the incredible scientific breakthrough, or about the person who believes that he had a conversation with a two-headed alien.
	It's the stuff that I always used to go to.
	I'd take a quick look at the main headline, political or whatever it might be, then I'd go to the cool stuff.
	And that's where the unexplained comes from.
	So it's a chance for me to speak on subjects that I'm interested in, as you will have heard.
	I am no scientist and I am no expert on any of these things.
	But I love learning.
	And that's been the mantra for the whole thing.
	So here I am saying that on edition 800, I'm not going to tell you my life story.
	And here I am partly doing it.
	But I have to tell you, I have got a mountain of stories to tell.
	Some of them, I may have to check whether I can tell them.
	And a lot of them are going to fascinate you.
	They're good ones.
	And stories of how you learn to ride the punches.
	Stories where perhaps people are jealous of you because you're doing something that they haven't been allowed to do.
	And they say, why is he being allowed to do that?
	But I have to say that I have met a minimum of people like that and a maximum of wonderful people who, like me, just love what they do.
	And so I'm lucky.
	I'm rich in experience of life and I'd rather be rich that way than have a great big fat bank balance.
	And also, I would vastly prefer to be able to get into the bathroom in the morning, look in the mirror, and stare myself back in the face.
	You know, I don't have anything to reproach myself for, apart from a few bad career moves that I made over the years, but we've all made them.
	So that's where I'm at.
	Let me tell you about this edition then.
	It is some things from a recent radio show and also one other item.
	The ROUAP report that was released in Washington a week ago as I speak these words, and things may have changed between me recording these words and you hearing this.
	So this is the situation more or less as it stood around the 10th, 11th, 12th, 13th, and I think probably 14th of March.
	Things may have changed by the time you hear this.
	But the people that you will hear about that report, which essentially said, if I interpret it properly, nothing to see here.
	And a lot of the reports were exaggerated, or they were stories that got repeated and went round and round and round.
	They were military technology that was perhaps secret, whatever it was, but all of it was not extraterrestrial.
	I think essentially that's what it said, nothing to see here.
	That's caused tremendous anger in the UAP-UFO community, as you will know if you've been reading anything online lately.
	So, people speaking about this, number one, Nick Pope.
	Number two, Steve Bassett from the Paradigm Research Group, a leading disclosure campaigner.
	And number three, recorded a day or so after that, my good friend Peter Robbins in New York reacting to what Steve said and to the whole story.
	Then after that, the remainder of this show will be taken up by a conversation with my good friend Paul Sinclair, who recorded his first interview, I believe, with me, and now, of course, is the man behind the truth, proofbooks, and a lot of things that you will see.
	So that's going to be the contents of this edition, the 800th edition of The Unexplained, and here I am, you know, say, can you talk?
	I think I've just ad-libbed my way through about 12 minutes, and I'm sorry if it's been too much, and of course, if it was boring for you, I hope that you just skipped it, because that's fine, too.
	You know, I know that some people just want to get to the content, and that's cool.
	Over these years, I've had two webmasters for the first year or so.
	Graham, thank you, Graham, if you hear this.
	And Adam, who's been with me for most of this time.
	Thank you so much, Adam, for doing this when you've had many other things to do in your life.
	Okay, let's get into the content of this edition of The Unexplained.
	Remember, of course, my Facebook page is always available, the official Facebook page with the official logo, official Facebook page of The Unexplained with Howard Hughes, and the website is theunexplained.tv.
	If you want to get in touch with me, then you can do it through there.
	If you want to make a donation to the online show, you can do it through there.
	And if you have over the years, thank you so much.
	Okay, item number one then.
	Nick Pope is first, followed by Steve Bassett, followed by Peter Robbins in New York, talking about the RO UAP report that was released as I'm recording these words last Friday.
	And then we'll hear a conversation with Paul Sinclair, the man behind the truth, proofbooks, and so much more.
	First up then, the RO UAP report.
	And first we hear Nick Pope.
	He is part of a news briefing that also happened on Friday with the Pentagon's press secretary, Major General Pat Ryder.
	Okay, so on the UAP report, the Pentagon concluded that there is no evidence of UAPs being off-world technology, but it also said the government set up programs to reverse engineer such technology.
	Why did the government plan to study off-world technology if it says it doesn't have any?
	Yeah, so as you highlight, no verifiable evidence that any UAP sighting represented extraterrestrial activity, that the U.S. government or private industry has ever had access to extraterrestrial technology or that any information was illegal, illegally, or inappropriately withheld from Congress.
	And alleged hidden UAP reverse engineering programs either do not exist or were misidentified authentic national security programs unrelated to extraterrestrial activity or technology exploitation.
	So what we found is that claims of hidden programs are largely the result of circular reporting by a small group repeating what they heard from others and that many people have sincerely misinterpreted real events or mistaken sensitive U.S. programs as UAP or being extraterrestrial exploitation.
	And this report is volume one.
	Should we be expecting more?
	Correct.
	Let's see here.
	There is another volume.
	Let me just look at my notes here real quick.
	Bear with me.
	Let me take that question for you.
	I'll come back to you.
	Wow.
	Okay.
	Well, I don't know about you.
	I don't think I was expecting to hear that at the end of a week.
	I was expecting to hear some meat and some flesh on some bones, and we didn't really get that there.
	I interpreted that, and maybe I'm wrong, with the words, nothing to see here.
	Let's get Nick Popon now, independent investigator, the man from Ancient Aliens, former MOD UFO man.
	Nick, thank you for doing this.
	Disappointment?
	Well, the UFO community were very disappointed, yes, and angry too.
	I think you're right when you say that this is best characterized as move along, there's nothing to see.
	That said, just because you haven't found something doesn't mean that there's nothing to be found.
	And there are some fundamental problems with what the Pentagon presented on Friday.
	The first point is that many of the whistleblowers who have been coming forward don't trust the Pentagon's UFO office arrow, so they haven't gone to them.
	They've gone direct to Congress.
	So it may well be that the Pentagon's report has been made without really the best evidence, which, as I say, has gone to parts of Congress.
	The second point is when you drill down into some of this, it's a little bit sloppy, frankly, in places.
	For example, the allegations are that many of these programs are illegal or being operated without professional, without proper congressional oversight.
	And it turns out Arrow's methodology in investigating these claims is simply going to the aerospace companies and saying, do you have any of these programs?
	They said, no, we don't.
	And Arrow said, all right, then, that's okay.
	Well, if they're illegal programs, they're hardly going to put their hand up and say, oh, okay, you've got us.
	Yeah, absolutely.
	Here they are.
	Yes, but.
	And there's always a yes, but in this, isn't there, Nick?
	Didn't the spokesperson from the DOD say months and months ago, a year ago almost, that people were free to come forward and had complete clearance to say whatever they wanted to say?
	We want to hear from you.
	Now, I know that there's an alphabet soup of organizations looking into all of this, so one hand may not know what the other one is doing.
	But really, would an organization approached and asked, are you doing this kind of thing, would say, well, no, we're not, because perhaps it's not a legal thing to do.
	That stretches credulity, doesn't it?
	Well, look, I mean, when we're talking about law breaking, I think nobody is going to say, oh, yeah, you've got us banged to rights.
	We confess.
	They would immediately talk to government legal people, say, look, we've got your arrow people sniffing around a program that another part of the organization told us to do.
	What do we do?
	Help.
	And I think what they're not going to do is just fess up to it.
	Look, I don't know whether these legacy crash retrieval and reverse engineering programs exist or not.
	My point is simply that simply asking someone, do you have any illegal programs and then accepting the answer, no, we don't, that's not investigation.
	That's just ticking a box.
	It is.
	And it's almost like, this is a lousy analogy I'm about to make here, but it's almost like a living room.
	You have the chairs arrayed in a semi-circle, and you have a space in the middle where the coffee table is, right?
	Now, the coffee table could be the reverse, this is real Alan Partridge, could be the reverse engineering projects and the secret stuff.
	We've got all the furniture.
	We've heard all of the peripheral detail about this, or we think we have.
	David Grush had a lot to say, did he not?
	And he said it under oath.
	The coffee table is missing.
	It has to be there somewhere, doesn't it?
	You would think so, yes.
	So I think all of this is interesting, but the real question is, what do we do now?
	And I think now the ball is very firmly back in the court of Congress.
	Basically, Arrow only did this report because they were congressionally mandated to do so.
	So in a sense, Congress must now do one of two things.
	They must either collectively say, thank you very much.
	We accept everything you say and we will move on.
	Or they must challenge it and say, but wait, we have people who have come to us with information that directly contradicts this.
	As you say, David Grush testified under oath that these programs exist.
	Somebody is either not being truthful or is mistaken.
	And both narratives cannot be correct.
	Congress now needs to find out which narrative is correct and which is not.
	And if Grush testified under oath and told us which he did these things exist, and we are now being told they don't, then surely, as night follows day, they have to prosecute him.
	You would think so, but again, it's the question of what's in the public interest.
	if, for example, they say, well, maybe he is suffering from post-traumatic stress disorder or something like that.
	It's not going to be in the public interest to go after him because you don't do that to veterans, as Tim Burchett says.
	You know, you don't, he said one of his great quotes, he said, in Tennessee, we don't demonize veterans for having PTSD.
	We thank them for their service.
	We do.
	And Tim and Anna Paulina Luna and others who said a great deal over the last months since Grush made his testimony, are they saying anything?
	I haven't heard them?
	No, I think, frankly, of course, as government does all the time, and I've done this myself, it's a well-known tactic.
	You drop something on a Friday and then you scramble away for the weekend.
	Look, everyone over the weekend is kind of trying to figure out what to do about this.
	I think we will hear from some members of Congress with some substantive statements next week.
	I think we will have some of the whistleblowers and some of the other people who have been most closely associated with this making some robust statements this coming week.
	But at the moment, everyone's just kind of thinking, what do we do now?
	But look, let's not kid ourselves.
	The main audience for this very aggressive report from Arrow is Congress.
	As I say, they were congressionally mandated by Congress to do this.
	But the strategic aim is to try and dissuade some of the congressional representatives who've been most vocal on this from taking it any further.
	They're trying to say, look, you've been conned.
	You've been sold a false narrative about extraterrestrials by a small group of true believers in the intelligence community.
	You are going to make yourself look silly if you carry on with this, drop it and get out of our hair.
	So either the congressional representatives are going to say, yeah, actually they have a point.
	Let's quietly extract ourselves from this, or they're going to double down and say, no, we don't believe you and push back.
	Next week, I think, will reveal which way this is going to go.
	Watch this space.
	Nick, thank you very much.
	I know how busy you are with Ancient Aliens Live and stuff.
	Thank you for doing that for me.
	Nick Pope in the United States with his analysis of what has gone on this week.
	Extraordinary things.
	Let's get Steve Bassett on from the Paradigm Research Group, activist in these matters of many years.
	Steve, we've known each other now for a long, long time.
	Friday was a very strange day.
	What are you saying tonight?
	Simple.
	This report, everything in it, all 65 pages, from the beginning to end, is a complete and utter lie.
	Period.
	What happens now then?
	Well, what should happen is this.
	Everyone associated with authoring and authorizing this report should resign.
	And that starts with Lloyd Austin, a good man.
	He needs to resign.
	And anyone else involved in authoring and authorizing this report needs to resign.
	This is a disgrace on the Department of Defense, to the American people, the United States, the Congress, and even the White House.
	It is bold.
	It is a colossal blunder.
	It is an act of desperation, a Hail Mary pass thrown because the hordes were closing in on them and they knew it.
	It's an act of arrogance that is striking.
	And I have in my lifetime experienced the United States government lying in unprecedented ways.
	And some of those lives have resulted in the deaths of millions of people.
	This lie is not going to kill a lot of people, but the implications of this issue is more profound.
	Okay.
	And they're continuing to lie.
	So that is the beginning.
	It is an absolute lie.
	Let me go further.
	The United States government has known about the ET presence since no later than 47.
	And they have been investigating it, and they have been doing reverse engineering and studying tech for decades.
	The processes you've been seeing unfold, the legislation, the creating of Arrow and other things, briefing of Congress was not about finding out about the issue.
	It was about setting up the infrastructure so they could properly deal with the demands of the American people when the president would ultimately have to confirm the ET presence.
	They couldn't say that because obviously that would be getting ahead of themselves.
	So they had to act like, oh, we're going to try to find this out.
	No.
	But they did need to set it up.
	We granted them that.
	No problem.
	Just get it done.
	Got delayed because, well, things in the world are going to hell.
	The point is, is that Schumer scared the hell out of him when he put in the big act, the act that would have essentially provided the entire basis to bring the information forward, the UAP Disclosure Act that included the UAP Disclosure Control Plan and all the powers necessary to enforce it.
	That's when it became real for everybody in the Pentagon or anywhere in the military intelligence complex that intend to see that truth embargo last until the day they die, if not forever, or all of the defense contractors that have been paid billions of dollars to do the research on this tech, but have plans to make billions more once disclosure is over.
	And their allegiance ultimately is to the shareholders and not to the United States.
	And so they push back and they got the bill gutted.
	And then somebody in the Pentagon and some meeting raised their hand and said, you know, we gutted the bill.
	The world did not collapse.
	Let's go for it.
	Let's do what we've done in the past, right?
	We've done it before.
	Well, it worked in the past, though, didn't it, Steve?
	That's the thing.
	In 1969, it did.
	Sure.
	They put forward the Colorado Report.
	They shut down Blue Book, destroyed NICAP, and they thought they were free, but it didn't last that long.
	And they closed down the Clinton administration effort, and they thought they were free, but it continued.
	And they thought they could get away with it one more time.
	But no.
	And here is why.
	This isn't 1969.
	All right.
	This is 2024.
	There's 8 billion people.
	Half of them are on the internet.
	There's billions of people on social media.
	This issue is known worldwide, and this thing is going to be eviscerated by the internet, the internet being used by hundreds and hundreds of millions of people that have just about had it.
	With defense departments of this nation and that nation lying into this war and that war and genocides and God knows what, and even lying about the reality around us.
	We have had it.
	Well, I've got it.
	And so we are going to come at them through the net.
	You say that you're going to come at them through the net.
	Just finally, a couple of months ago, you had a campaign.
	We talked about it to get people to email en masse politicians, their local representatives, get this issue on the agenda.
	Doesn't seem to have done much, does it?
	I mean, look, I'm coming at this with the best will in the world here.
	That started a couple of weeks ago.
	It was like maybe a month and a half ago.
	And things were going our way.
	I mean, things were going well.
	This is different.
	All right.
	They just basically called everybody a liar, right?
	The members of Congress, the House Intelligence Committee, Grush, all the other witnesses, they called everybody a liar and they thought they were going to get away with it.
	They are not going to get away with it because now it's just not the web coming for or the internet coming for some, not coming for, but trying to get some members of Congress to complete the job that they were doing, which is to get the hearings in front of the Intel Committee.
	There's 100 witnesses ready to testify right now, and Mark Warner could call it tomorrow.
	Mark Warner could go on a camera tomorrow and say, this report is an absolute piece of crap, and we're going to bring 100 witnesses and put the lie to it.
	Okay, last week.
	And as soon as he does that, the first thing that needs to happen is Lloyd Austin needs to resign.
	He is a good man, but he absolutely.
	We've been through this before they're counting me down here.
	I've got to ask you one quick thing, Steve.
	And I know how close to your heart this is because I've known you for a lot of years, okay?
	Doesn't it now take one or a group of people to step up to the plate and say, I do not accept this.
	And here is what I know.
	And look at this dossier.
	There it is.
	Here's the proof.
	That's what we need.
	That's going to happen.
	And the internet's going to back them up.
	And the internet is going to go after the DOD.
	It's going to go after this report.
	It's going to go after Kirkpatrick.
	It's going to shred them.
	They don't know what they have done.
	They have thrown a Hail Mary pass into 2 million people, thinking that their person could catch that pass.
	This is not 1969.
	This is a colossal blunder, and they are going to pay for it.
	And hopefully it may bring around the reforms that we need.
	But I assure you, they have no idea the torch they have lit by this unbelievable lie.
	Let's cross now to New York City.
	And my good friend Peter Robbins, investigator, author, man, has given a good portion of his life to this topic.
	Peter, thank you very much for doing this.
	How are you?
	Good, Howard, and great to hear your voice again.
	Well, also great to hear Steve Bassett.
	I've never heard Steve, I've heard Steve peeved.
	I've heard Steve tired from campaigning.
	I have never heard him so angry about something.
	What are your thoughts?
	The report that came down from the Pentagon last week, in physics terms, for every action, there is an equal and opposite reaction.
	The action has been an opening up, an increase in curiosity, more public activism, more politicians in America coming forward to say they support this.
	And I think what Steve is reacting to there righteously is that old generation of secret keepers, those folks who have been at the controls, moving the chess pieces without being elected, inheriting off in their positions, and they don't want, for any number of reasons, to let it go.
	And there's blowback.
	Steve, in a way, was the living expression of it right then and there.
	But this past week, my first thought when I saw one news agency and network, whether it was the BBC or NPR or CNN or Fox, one after another, dutifully reporting that it's all been a bit of a misunderstanding, folks, and actually a new permutation on the cover-up.
	It's not the old flying sauces and little green men, don't waste your time here.
	It's all wish fulfillment and I want to believe X-File stuff.
	No, we now feel that these whistleblowers, they're righteous.
	They're so far men of respect who have risked ridicule or their job by coming forward and reporting.
	Problem is, they just didn't get it right.
	They heard something, they extrapolated in their minds.
	It's really no proof of this, folks.
	And, you know, like you, we'd like to see, you know, visitors from other planets and we all long to blah, blah, blah.
	That's the reaction to every single news agency responding with click heels on this Pentagon report this week, which is simply not true.
	There are some UFOs, UAPs, that do fit into that category of truly anomalous advanced technology from parts unknown under intelligent control.
	Indeed.
	And you investigated and wrote about the phenomena that unfolded at Rendlesham Forest in the UK in 1980, which we've talked about, both of us, many, many times before with many different people.
	That was a deeply unusual night.
	There are various accounts of it, but all of those various accounts would agree on one point.
	There was something deeply abnormal that happened there.
	To even think that that could be dismissed so lightly and so easily, I think, and this is just a personal view, is something of an insult to everybody involved.
	What are your thoughts?
	That's the word I would use, too, Howard, insult for any thinking person who has even remotely looked at this material.
	You may recall that in the summer of 1997, which was a big year for the subject, the 50th anniversary of Roswell and Kenneth Arnold, and every UFO documentary that had been made was trotted out on American and British TV again, that the Air Force issued a report, very straightfacedly called Roswell Case Closed.
	It was more than 500 pages.
	It was perfect for keeping a door open.
	Their reading it was an insult to the intelligence.
	It's where they told us that it was crash dummies that had been misinterpreted as aliens, except the crash dummies didn't go into use until 1952, one of many nonsensical things that they threw at us.
	When they don't know what to do, they lie.
	And this is a big lie.
	It's backed up by the whole Pentagon.
	And again, relax, folks.
	We all understand.
	We all want there to be these wonderful unknown things.
	But no, we're alone in the universe, pretty much.
	That's all we can say.
	Well, as we said it, it's engendered a great deal of anger.
	Ross Coulthard in Australia with his show on News Nation.
	Ross Coulthard 24 hours ago, as I record these words with you, remember that this is a recording that you will be hearing on the radio that was done earlier in the week.
	But this is what Ross Coulthard very quickly and very succinctly had to say about it.
	Of all the ridiculous piles of steaming dog turd I've ever seen served up before the U.S. Congress as a report that supposedly tells the truth about what's really going on inside the national security world, the Arrow Historical Review of UAPs was a big pile of steaming BS.
	Well, I'd like to hear him when he gets annoyed.
	So that's Ross Coulthard's view of it.
	You're going to hear that from an awful lot of people.
	And it's one thing to condemn, though, isn't it, Peter?
	But what do those people now do?
	Those people who've campaigned, people like yourself who've taken a view, who've weighed the evidence, who've come to a conclusion?
	And those people don't forget who are waiting in the wings, the whistleblowers.
	What does it say to them?
	What do all of them do now?
	Basically, we keep doing what we're doing.
	This is a fight that has been going on for, gosh, at this point, more than 75 years.
	And you don't lie down simply because your opponent tells you to.
	We know they're wrong, and we know there is evidence.
	It's not out of the question that high-ranking people even involved in formulating this report are not cleared to see it.
	The term that the great Timothy Goode kind of instilled in the public mind, above-top secret, is not just a government designation.
	Above-top secret can mean it's above your pay grade, even if you have a security clearance.
	When you don't know what to do, lie.
	And it happens at the institutional level as well as at the individual level.
	And I think this is a perfect example.
	I also feel that it's a backhand compliment to all of the people in public life, in journalism, people like Leslie Kaine and Ralph Blumenthal, in American government, people like Kirsten Gillibrand and Well, there are people like Tim Burchett and Anna Paulina Luna and others on both sides.
	Exactly.
	And that's the main thing, that they are on both sides.
	Do you think they're going...
	They're smart people.
	They're well-read.
	They're connected.
	And they're seeing a reaction here that they've probably seen in other ways and other aspects of government, not as dramatic.
	But when you don't know what to do, fake it.
	It's human nature, and we have put these secret keepers in a way up against the wall.
	Again, I'm guessing there are people within the establishment who are so tired of this nonsense and who are rational thinking people and who would like to see it all come to a head and sort itself out.
	We will live through this.
	We will go forward.
	Other people, maybe it's that sense of I'll not only lose my power, but the person that I inherited it from who, you know, worshipped Harry Truman, they will lose all of the work that they did.
	I'll be ratting them out.
	It's a misplaced sense of loyalty.
	It's fear of the unknown in overdrive.
	What will happen?
	The same question they've been asking since 1947.
	The way that Steve Bassett began his polemic there, essentially, there was a mechanism in place, and it couldn't be allowed to function because we didn't know what would happen.
	But Steve is a great believer in popular power.
	He thinks the people will demand, they will email their congress people, they will make a big fuss about this.
	Now, whether or not that happens, there is another factor here.
	And it's the last thing I'd like to ask you about.
	What are your thoughts on my belief that it is time for some of those whistleblowers to say, I don't care about the consequences for myself?
	Because we're way beyond that now.
	We have to do that for the nation.
	And if this is true, and if it isn't what it has been claimed to be, and that is misinterpretations, misreportings, we're not saying all of them, but misreportings and all of those things.
	If it's true and those people have the information, it's time for at least one of them to come out and say, here's the documentation.
	This is what I did.
	This is what I know, and I care not for the consequences.
	What do you say?
	I say that kind of courage is rare and precious.
	But building on that very briefly, I had a guest on my radio show, meanwhile, here on Earth last week, Joe Bookman.
	Joe has run for the American Senate and the Senate of the state of Utah, I think, seven times on a ticket of giving a pass, Allowing anybody with security clearances in government who has any knowledge of this subject to come forward without any possibility of being prosecuted for it.
	And the other point that he is continually running for office on is: this is real, it's true, we need to acknowledge it.
	I think that there are people who, well, you know, we have some very big name.
	David Gresh right now, I guess, is the best known respected name of a whistleblower who has come forward and damned the torpedoes.
	I think more of them would if they just had a human guarantee that they wouldn't go to jail or disappear into some equivalent of an American gulag for giving a state secret.
	If, you know, if you're me and you're older and you're on your own, sure, what the hell?
	Here comes glory.
	But if you have a family.
	And if you've got a life to lead, the stakes are high.
	So that is why.
	And, you know, Grush was the one who implied we've certainly heard implications in the last year that some people have paid a very high price for their involvement and their transparency.
	So we'll have to watch this space, I guess.
	And just to remind my listener, this conversation was recorded some days before you're actually hearing it.
	Just to ask you quickly about this.
	This story we know will never go away, even if some people think it might.
	A story that was in the news a few days ago, researchers in Norway are searching a frozen lake that a UFO allegedly crashed into 77 years ago.
	There's a video of this thing that's online.
	I'm looking at a version by the Irish Star newspaper.
	Apparently, this took place in the village of Vroros in 1947.
	The mayor of the village at the time claimed to have seen a craft crash into Lake Judsoen or Judsjoen.
	My Norwegian pronunciation is not good, as you've just heard.
	Quotes, it looked like a rocket, made a lot of noise, said a photographer called Ru Rostad, whilst also recording that it turned 180 degrees and landed in the lake.
	That's an interesting story, and that's just indicative, isn't it, of the kind of stuff that we will, whatever happens, keep hearing about.
	I think so.
	And an interesting story it is.
	I'm looking at the same coverage you are.
	Who are we to say that it didn't happen?
	No question about it, that the Norwegian UFO research community, which is not known for its sensationalism or wild claims, anything but.
	I know a number of members of the research community in that wonderful country.
	And, you know, they're not about being entertained or entertaining.
	And there is no question that the search that is going on now is the largest of its kind in the history of that country.
	Again, it could be something non-exotic.
	It could be a V2 that we have no record of its going up, but it came down in 1947.
	And the point is, as we bring this to a conclusion, Peter, and I'm sorry to jump in, I'm just conscious of the clock here as ever with commercials to play and all sorts of things.
	But we must hope that whatever happens, that no one is deterred from doing investigations like that one or the investigations that you've done or anybody else who's asked questions.
	Because if we are deterred from asking questions because of this, then I think we are lost.
	And that's a bit of a concern.
	And my thanks to Nick Pope.
	And after that, you heard Steve Bassett.
	And after that, you heard Peter Robbins, as recorded a little bit later.
	Interesting story.
	I'm sure that the people who believe that we have not been told the full truth, and I'm certainly in that camp, there is more to know about this.
	I just don't know what it is.
	You know, they will be having more of a say.
	And this story is far from over yet.
	If anybody thinks it is, then I think they're probably dead wrong.
	The next item then, sit back and enjoy the thoughts of Paul Sinclair.
	I caught up with him.
	We asked him some of your questions and got up to speed with him.
	This is Paul Sinclair.
	Great to be speaking to you.
	Thank you.
	Well, you know, we've got quite a reach on us, Paul, and you're always a popular guest, and I've got loads of questions for you.
	And I always like, and I know you'd like too, if I just come at you with the questions and we'll see where they go.
	We're not going to do that yet, but I think that's quite important.
	So what are you up to at the moment then, Paul?
	What are you doing?
	It's still the same, Howard.
	It's unrelenting, but I'm not complaining.
	And I think as a researcher, if that's what we call ourselves, we kind of crave the accounts, the stories, people's experiences.
	But I'm not complaining, people.
	But now it's literally, I'm getting lots and lots of information and not just East and North Yorkshire.
	So I'm very grateful.
	Let's put it that way.
	And just relaying these accounts and sharing them with other people is encouraging people to come forward and maybe speak about things that they wouldn't normally have spoken about or sat in silence.
	Because I think everybody tonight, Howard, listening to the unexplained, are looking for answers of their own.
	That's why we're here.
	And I'm no different to the rest of us.
	And you and I share the view, don't we, Paul, that everybody's got a story.
	You know, I've told the story about my ghost in Liverpool, which we won't bore people with again, but also the goat man that I saw when I was at the fair with my nan back in, God, God, I'm not even going to name the year because it really does date me, but we were coming back from the fair in Southport.
	And there was a man, my grandmother said, don't look.
	So when you're 10 or 11, what do you do?
	You look.
	And he has the features for arms and legs.
	He's got hooves rather like a goat.
	And I looked up at his head, and I promise you he had the head of a goat.
	Now, it may have been some kind of condition.
	If that was the case, then the poor man.
	But I was shocked.
	You know, I was surprised, I guess, more than anything else, because I was only a kid.
	My grandmother said, don't look.
	But I've never quite known what That might be, and I've never heard anybody else talk about that, but I have heard other reports of similar kinds of things.
	So, the whole point of that little rambly bit is that everybody's got something to tell.
	You're absolutely right.
	And, you know, there's people sat there with their own experiences, some of them probably traumatic, and that's why it must be painful to share them.
	So, so we can understand and respect that.
	But there are other people, but for the thought of sheer ridicule or what will people think, are just sat in silence, nevertheless still looking, or you've just got that niggling back of your mind because you always know that that experience, regardless of whether you're skeptically minded or, you know, or scientifically minded, that experience, you just can't quite nail it down.
	It were definitely different.
	And you're so right, Howard.
	We've all got them.
	Everybody's got one, two.
	What do they say?
	You look at the phenomenon and it looks back at you.
	So the more you think about it, probably, that might be why people shelve it to the back of their minds.
	That's coming more to the fore now.
	More people I talk to lead me to the belief, and they even believe themselves in some cases, that they have the ability somehow or they have opened the door somehow.
	It's something about them that allows them to see, for example, Bigfoot or whatever it might be.
	Yeah, I would agree.
	And it's almost like there's a memory path back to the source.
	You know, when people have had these experiences, I've spoken to people who've had an experience and let's assume it's 10, 20 years old.
	And they've suddenly, not suddenly, but they've began speaking about it again.
	They began to, I don't know, life's just, but they've kind of matured and feel confident in their own skin that, so what I can share this.
	You know, I know, why am I lying to other people and myself when I know I've seen this?
	But then things start to happen again.
	And I don't mean the same experience, but it's almost like you've given something a nudge and revived it.
	And, you know, I think like it's almost a memory or a pathway back to the phenomena because whatever it is, Howard, that's existing and operates behind this firewall that we can't penetrate, it's there.
	It seems to be all knowing.
	It's there all of the time.
	And some of us actively go looking for it.
	And I don't think it performs to order.
	Everything's on its terms.
	And a lot of it takes place when we least expect it.
	You know, the subtitle of book two, Beyond the Thinking Mind, it's almost like, I don't mean we're in a daydream when these things happen, but most people, these things happen when we least expect it.
	And it's, but it's there.
	Whatever this is that we're dealing with, whether it's a phenomenon, as in one, or phenomena, as in many, it's observing and it's ready to, I wouldn't say pounce, but it's ready to interact on its terms whenever it wants.
	And it seems to be able to outthink us at every twist and turn.
	And I don't know if we'll ever get an handle on exactly what it is we're dealing with that resides this exotic science.
	Is it science or is it a natural ability that this phenomena, this intelligence has?
	All open-ended questions.
	I realize that, people, because if you're talking to me, you're not going to talk to an expert because I don't think any of us are, you know, because I'm the same as you guys out there.
	I'm just searching for answers.
	Which makes all of us, Paul, an expert, I think.
	Before we get into the meat of it all, let's ask you this.
	You've been doing this now, the books since, what, 2016, I think, was the first book.
	Yeah.
	It was the first book.
	So it's eight years of it now.
	I mean, time's flown.
	And I've been doing this radio show for all of those eight years, too.
	Do you believe that you, Paul Sinclair, are particularly receptive to phenomena, if you want to call it that?
	I think in my early years, I was, or the phenomena were interested in me, whatever it was that were interacting with me in childhood.
	Then it sent to stop till, I don't know, I think I was 30 when we moved to Bridlington.
	I mean, I'm pretty sure I was.
	And it almost started up again.
	It's almost like everything's planned and it started again.
	And then it tapered off in 1997, 98.
	And although I've seen and experienced quite a lot of things now while I'm in these areas, is that because I'm spending a lot more time in these areas that I'm seeing and experiencing it?
	Because, you know, as we've just touched on, it doesn't perform to order.
	But I suppose if you spend six months, 12 months, and nothing's happening, and then you might have a little hit, it gives you the inspiration to carry on looking and searching.
	And that could be the reason because this location up and around Eastern North Yorkshire, these locations, I think people think reading the truth-proof books that things are happening every night.
	And from my observations, I know there's a lot, you know, it's not, but I will say that I think there's a higher probability to see and interact with something of an unexplained nature in these locations probably than anywhere else in the country.
	And from what I've seen from TV programmes, and I'm not naming any because I think they're all good, but from what I've seen when they go to Adbreaks screaming and excited about what's going to happen, when they come back, there's a chink of light in the sky, and we've based a programme on it.
	The things that we've filmed up there, which I showed at the Awakening Conference earlier this year, the darker side of ufology, and we put some clips of footage up and that, you know, it's far more interesting, in my opinion.
	And I realise that people are going to say, well, you would say that because you filmed it or you're there.
	But I think the proof's in the pudding.
	We can put footage up to sort of put my money where my mouth is kind of thing.
	And that video, which was shot, wasn't it, on Bempton Cliffs, almost shows like it's nighttime, but there's a dawn happening, like a crack in the sky.
	Yeah, there really is.
	And we've got so many more.
	And I haven't filmed them all.
	People are coming up there with us now who are buying half-decent night vision cameras as well.
	And we're getting results.
	And it's great when you're filming something and there's somebody else filming it on another camera.
	And you can see the shoulders of people.
	it's ruling out people saying, Oh, this is fake, or this is some kind of CGI.
	And, you know, we've not filmed the smoking gun of ufology people, but we've filmed very, very interesting anomalous objects and lights beneath the surface of the sea.
	You know, it's undeniable, we've filmed them on two occasions last year, literally luminous objects beneath the surface of the North Sea and off the cliff tops and not that far out.
	And I suppose people could say, well, I don't know.
	Is it bioluminescence?
	Well, I don't know if we're going to have that in the North Sea.
	You know, especially not on the approach of winter.
	I think the more tropical climes are more suitable for that.
	So, yeah, we've got all manner.
	It's like a multi-phenomena area.
	But once again, Howard, I would think that most people in their areas of research, if they really wanted to admit it, would say that there's multi-phenomena events taking place.
	But unfortunately, and I think it's changing, ufologists sit in that lane and the cryptid people sit in that lane and never the two seem to mix.
	And just like spiritualism and mediums, but there's such a bleed through, Howard, of this exotic science running through it all that people should, I don't know, get out of that mindset, yeah, and try and accept.
	I'm not setting things in stone here, people.
	It's just my views, but try and accept that somehow it's all linked.
	I mean, I could give you some examples of that if you wanted.
	Well, let me ask you about something that I know that you wanted me to ask you about anyway.
	What was the Kapow moment on the 26th of February?
	What happened?
	Yeah, the Kapow moment.
	And I just likened it.
	And anybody who's old enough and remember Batman?
	Well, we'll all remember Batman, but you might not remember the very early.
	It was like, just to explain to my younger listeners, and I think it's mostly, I mean, I remember Batman very well.
	But Batman, both in the cartoon version and the live-action version with Bert Ward, he would punch some villain and there would be a star that would explode on the screen that would go, zap, pow!
	And it would have the caption in between it, inside it saying, Kapow.
	Well, we'd been on the cliffs last, let me think, last, it was Monday the 26th, and there was myself, a guy called Ian and Peter, and it was raining and a young guy had traveled from Beverly.
	So we spent a bit of time up just there, just having a natter under a shelter rather than this guy travel for an hour and then have to just drive back.
	And we did that and we set off home.
	And Ian was behind me, this guy who lives in Bridlington driving following me.
	And we just left the village of Bempton.
	Excuse me.
	We just left the village.
	So we're in an unlit area.
	And there's a what I call the capow moment.
	There's a burst of orange light that's about streetlight height in front of the car.
	Bosh, it just appears.
	And it's all blackness.
	There's nothing there.
	But I put my indicator on and pulled the car in because I'm immediately looking for the logical.
	I'm thinking there's a streetlight that's blinking here, even though I know there isn't one, but it's about that height.
	It's not high in sky and it's just splashed out this star of orange, should we say, orange light.
	So I pull in and I don't know, a few seconds later, Ian pulls alongside the car and pulls in.
	He says, everything okay?
	I says, did you see that orange light?
	He went, no, no, I never saw it.
	And I said, there's just been a big burst of orange light in front of the car low down.
	I says, I'm just looking if there's a street light that's blinking or anything.
	He goes, well, I've got dash cam on.
	He says, and I wonder if that's picked it up.
	I thought, well, I hope so.
	So sure enough, Ian came round to our house the following day and we downloaded the footage and it's there.
	You can't deny that this orange light just flashes up.
	It's a rainy night, so I don't mean you've got distortion and it could be anything.
	You can see it.
	And obviously, I'm not just going to pull the car in and imagine that Ian might have filmed a flash of light and that this will be good.
	That's exactly as it happened.
	What's it telling us?
	I don't know, really, Howard.
	It's just another, yet again, another interesting quirky anomaly.
	It's like Ian said he would have never seen it if I hadn't have pulled the car in and asked him the question.
	He'd have never looked on the CCTV, obviously.
	So if he'd have carried on driving, I dare say I would have spoken to him the next day and this would have come up in conversation.
	But yeah, so the Kapow moment.
	Sudden burst of energy.
	Listen, I've got a whole ton of questions and they're coming in again now.
	They came in during the day and during this week on email.
	So I'm going to get through those after we've taken some commercials in a minute or two.
	Talk to me about the rooftop werewolf.
	We probably need to devote a show to that one, Howard.
	But this is just a guy who's got an account that stayed with him from 2003 when he was 18 years old.
	And we'll do it quick and you stop me as soon as you go into a break, Howard, obviously.
	And he's compelled to wake up at 18 years old one night.
	He's living in his mum and dad's semi-detached house and stands at the curtains in the early hours of the morning.
	And as he stood looking out of the window, he sees this thing sat on the roof of the house over the road.
	He says it sat in a crouched position, a bit like a, imagine the frogs with its legs splayed out at the sides.
	And he's watching this thing and it can't believe what he's looking at.
	And he said, suddenly he felt like it could see him or he felt uneasy, he felt nervous.
	And it set off walking along the ridge of the roof.
	And then it walked down the gable end like a spider would walk down a wall headfirst.
	But it's only on only got four limbs.
	I realize this is a really weird story.
	I've spoken to this person.
	I like to speak to people.
	That don't make it bona fide truth and proof, but it always helps.
	He says, From there, he said it went across the garden, and there's a little green area with a cherry blossom tree with no leaves on, so it's winter time in the middle of this grass.
	He said it stood up and held its arm out and just stepped into the tree.
	Didn't say it climbed, it stepped.
	He noted that the tree never bent, it never moved, and it sat there.
	And then it's got illuminous eyes, self-illuminating eyes, he tells me.
	From there, its eyes fixed on him and it leapt out of the tree and came bounding across the road.
	He said he lost sight of it for a moment, and then it's face to face with him at the window.
	So he's 12 inches apart.
	Now, this guy's keen to stress, he said its head was about three times as big as his.
	And he said, and he'd no shame in saying it, he said, I've got a big head.
	He said, and the reason I know the size of my head, and I think he did say, and forgive me because I have written this down, but I think he said it was 62 centimeters.
	He just had it measured for a crash helmet.
	That's the reason he knew.
	And this thing's staring at him.
	He claims he could see breath on the window.
	He could see fangs hanging down from this thing.
	My mouth.
	So a pretty crazy story, Howard.
	Paul Sinclair here on The Unexplained with me, Howard Hughes.
	We have a ton of stuff to get through, Paul.
	Paul in East Yorkshire, author of the Truth Proof books.
	David asks, just quickly, are the third and fourth editions still available?
	Yes, they are, David.
	If I can just...
	I will be getting them back on Amazon shortly.
	But yeah, or if you wanted the electronic versions, obviously Amazon.
	Questions, questions now.
	Susan, regular listener, this is a weird one.
	Wonder if you can run this past Mr. Sinclair.
	It contains a huge hare that I saw about three years, is it 30 years ago?
	I can't make it out from the text, but I think it might be 30 years ago in a woodland in Switzerland.
	Time I was taking my employer's dogs for a walk.
	Then I saw this hare, which in size towered above the dog who was a Dalmatian.
	I felt shocked.
	Ever heard anything like that?
	I haven't.
	And I mean, they are a big, a big animal, but they're not as big as a, obviously, as a Dalmatian, Susan.
	So never, never heard anything like that.
	And was it away as in running away when you saw it, Susan, or did it stare at you?
	It's an interesting one, but it's got me stumped.
	I've not heard anything like that.
	No.
	Shane and Sidney, any ghost stories from funeral homes in your area?
	There's a funeral home in Bridlington.
	I'll not say which one it is.
	And I worked on a housing estate at the back of it.
	Brand new houses, whether this has got any bearing on it.
	And one of the houses, literally very close to it.
	That's why I'm trying to be guarded here.
	I don't want to name the house.
	But people working on the house as it were being built were having strange experiences and it ghostly-like experiences.
	And then I know the people who bought it, they were having the same thing.
	But I've also got another story about a man who worked at a funeral home.
	And I'm not saying he still works at it.
	And when he began working there, he was told that he had to say nothing.
	Obviously, I know and I'm sharing it with the nation about the knockers.
	And bear with me, people.
	It's not a joke.
	And he said, because you will start and hear knocks on your walls and on your doors.
	It's the nature of the job.
	And I wondered, I never pursued it because I didn't want this person to, I didn't want it to endanger his job.
	But he said it started to happen.
	And is this some kind of hitchhiker effect to the phenomenon?
	I don't necessarily mean ghosts.
	And is it something that we as researchers, as active people, have overlooked or never even heard about before?
	So that's not hardly ghosts.
	I realize that, but interesting nevertheless.
	Still relevant.
	Sean in Bromborough, just across the water from Liverpool, as we know, is a fan of Philey.
	You and I have talked about stories from Philey many times, Paul.
	Have you got a good one for him?
	I'm fascinated by what we would call the ghost lights of Philey Brig.
	And Philey Brig is about an outcrop of rock that sticks out into the North Sea about a mile.
	And it's treacherous.
	And, you know, when there's a high tide, you don't know it's there.
	So it's sunk a lot of ships.
	But the anglers, the guys on the rocks, the rock anglers, talk about seeing luminous spheres of light below the rock shelf.
	Fishermen, the crab fishermen and lobster fishermen, I don't mean loads and loads of them, but I've spoken to fishermen who claim to have seen the same.
	And then we've got beach anglers.
	This is a weird one who claim to have seen luminous lights as while they're fishing.
	But as you can imagine, when the waves are coming in and it's not very deep, you could probably wade out two, three feet.
	That's where they're seeing them.
	And I've got more than one account of that.
	But there's UFO activity at Filey Brig.
	2005, there were a police officer and his wife stood on Filey Brig on a nice summer's day.
	There was, I think it was 2005, there was a couple behind them, holidaymakers with children, and they observed looking towards Speaton Cliffs, which would be approximately five miles away, an object, a UFO for want of a better word, just out from the cliffs.
	And it looked to be about 20 feet higher than the cliffs.
	Now the cliffs are 420 feet.
	So they watching this, they didn't even know that the couple behind them had seen it.
	And it proceeded to move across the bay in a zigzag fashion and stopped directly above these people.
	And he watched it.
	The wife said it had revolving panels that were moving around it.
	And she described it as looking like a flying saucer with these panels moving around it.
	And obviously then they got speaking to the couple and they said they'd been watching it before, you know, the police officer and his wife saw it.
	So there's a UFO sighting from Philey, but there are a lot of reports.
	It's just a stone's throw away from the place that I spend a lot of time, really.
	I mean, we're only looking five miles speed and six miles from Bempton.
	So we're in the zone.
	We're in the zone, yeah.
	Right.
	Now, we're going to have to go quickly through all of these questions because it's going to definitely take us the next half hour.
	Mark, this is a great question from Mark.
	He says, Paul has been documenting strangeness in his area for years.
	We know this.
	Have you ever considered cross-referencing or comparing the collected data?
	I would love to.
	Yeah, I would love to.
	I put that out there when I talked to people like Katie Page, who was doing research at the Wilson Ranch, and other researchers and Trey Hudson, who you probably had on, Howard, who's doing the Meadow project.
	And I don't mean these people aren't forthcoming.
	It might be that their workload is just too big or too great, but I would love to.
	And I'm open to help, for want of a better word.
	Anybody that Mark has got a story for starters here.
	This is, and again, time is limited, but it's a good one.
	A tall dog-like creature seen running on its hind legs at the Bempton Cliffs 10th of March, 2024.
	He says, between 11.30 and midnight, overcast weather 5 degrees Celsius.
	Could that have been 10th of March?
	That's today.
	Do you mean 2023?
	Anyway, full moon receding high tide.
	Well, I've not heard of this, Mark.
	Obviously, I haven't if you're just telling it for the first time.
	Dog-like creature.
	I think he probably means 10th of March 2023.
	Yeah, it probably do, Mark, but I don't think I've got January, February.
	I don't think, no, because it was February, the military guys, it was February the 7th, 2019.
	So no reports of a dog-like creature.
	No, but I'd love to hear about, I'd seriously love to hear about that.
	We want to know more about that.
	Alan in Edinburgh has this.
	Do you think there's a reason that particular areas are high points for weirdness?
	There's obviously a reason, Mark.
	I don't know what that reason is.
	But you know how we touched on, and I'll try and be as quick as I can.
	How we touched on earlier that, you know, when we look at the phenomena, the phenomena kind of looks back at us.
	Maybe we're throwing a spotlight on it in these areas as well, when they become highlighted, because it's clear that ancient peoples knew that these areas were special, else they wouldn't have buried their dead there in the form of burial mounds, earthworks, standing stones.
	So it goes back a long way.
	Gren asks, in the last 20 years, UAP sightings have massively increased.
	We know that because people have got phones and they're more attuned to it.
	Do you think governments around the world are taking this seriously?
	I think we can guess at the answer to that.
	I think they're definitely taking it seriously.
	And for want of a better reason, we're not meant to know the full extent of what's happening.
	I mean, it's a given now that people actually realize that there's something of a true unexplained nature taking place in the skies and under the seas around us, whether people choose to believe it or not in some places.
	So, yeah, I do believe that they're taking an interest and they probably know a lot more than we'll ever know.
	And on a similar kind of theme, Steve O'Neill asks, Mr. Sinclair, with the so-called revelations in the summer of 2023, we know Dave Grush and all of that, and the lack of follow-up evidence for UAP, UFO, alien bodies, et cetera, et cetera, what would be your evaluation of the level of truth being spread by people who claim the government is hiding the facts?
	That was the core of everything we spoke with Steve Bassett and Nick Pope with at the top of this show.
	This report in Washington, back end of last week, released on a Friday, so people didn't have as much time to react to it over the weekend.
	The fact that we're being told that there's nothing to see here.
	What do you make of it?
	It's almost like we've been given, we've got the reports and David Grush speaking about what he knew or what he allegedly knew, and then we've got nothing really to back that up, have we?
	And it's almost as though that were needed and now they can close us down now for another two or three years until everything gears up for another push.
	I just genuinely believe that for whatever reason, we're not meant to know.
	And it's just been suppressed.
	But Steve makes the point, extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence.
	We've had lots of claims and lots of statements, but where is the evidence?
	That's the point.
	Yeah, and he makes a great point.
	I mean, everything I'm talking about, Steve, here today, apart from the footage that I've managed to obtain up there, it's anecdotal.
	And, you know, and I'll hold my hands up and say that.
	And the claims that I'm talking, you know, what I'm saying sounds extraordinary.
	And so you're saying it requires extraordinary evidence.
	And the evidence isn't there.
	The subtitle of the first book, The Truth That Leaves No Proof, and that's exactly what it is.
	That is precisely.
	But it's not a belief thing, not with me.
	If you've seen it and you've experienced it, it's not a religion because you already know.
	And I don't need, and obviously, Steve, no disrespect to you because you've just put the question.
	It's a great question.
	I don't need any validation from anyone else when I've spoken, when I've seen and experienced these things.
	And I'm pretty sure that the vast amount of people that have seen and experienced themselves, they're looking for answers, but they're not necessarily looking for people to call them down and tell them that, oh, it can't possibly be true, because just because you've not seen it does not mean it's not happened or they're not experiencing it.
	And I haven't got proof anywhere of the ghost that I saw, but other people in the same place had seen the same thing, and I didn't know that.
	Let's get to this.
	Anthony in Nottingham, what are your thoughts on whether or not the Bigfoot or similar cryptids that have been encountered in the UK have paranormal capabilities?
	Great question, particularly regarding how they can appear and vanish and interact.
	Yeah, unless it's some kind of exotic science, and maybe that's paranormal.
	That's what we're looking at.
	You get people reporting the bioluminescent eyes.
	that can't be normal.
	What animals do we have anywhere in the world with bioluminescence apart from marine creatures?
	I know somebody might argue the point that there is something somewhere in Australia or something, but I don't know of any hominids allegedly six to eight foot tall, four to eight hundred pounds, covered in fur that are bioluminescent eyes.
	The movement, the gamekeeper in the forests of North Yorkshire claimed that this thing didn't walk.
	It just arrived.
	It floated.
	We've got the hunters in America until their 25, 30 years, don't believe in the notion of Bigfoot.
	It's all a load of rubbish until that fateful day, something steps out onto the path in front of them and he raises his gun because he's terrified about what he's seeing in front of his, with his eyes, his own eyes, and a voice comes into his head advising him not to do it.
	There's definitely something a little bit more than a normal flesh, blood, bone, and fur animal to these creatures, in my opinion, if they've got these attributes.
	Sue asks, and this is a good question, and I don't think it's ever come out in any of the conversations that I've had with you about this, and that's my fault.
	Good question from Sue.
	If the Wolfman and other strange creatures exist and are being seen, how is it possible for them to have survived in the way they have so long?
	Good point.
	Absolutely, because there's no way on earth that what people are claiming to see on these cliff tops could actually reside and exist undetected on those cliff tops.
	So I don't know where they're coming from, whether they're coming from some other sphere of existence.
	And that's kind of a throwaway statement I hear people saying or looking for more tangible proof.
	But I haven't got an answer.
	All I know is that we've got people from all walks of life claiming to have seen very similar things.
	So where could they reside?
	I don't know.
	Is it something that's just transient and just slips in and out?
	Because it's clear that going back into folklore, these things or similar things have been reported throughout time in this area.
	So it's left its mark on the land.
	But to think that some huge carnivorous looking creature, we'll say carnivorous looking because we don't know if it's a meat eater, but looking at it, I would think it is, could avoid detection and not cause chaos and carnage.
	It just couldn't happen.
	So these things have got to be something of a paranormal nature, in my opinion.
	And further backing that up is the fact that I don't think, apart from injuries resulting in people fleeing and being frightened, nobody's ever really been hurt by anything like this.
	No, I've not heard of anybody being hurt.
	The driving force that people seem to experience when seeing these things is fear.
	And this, whatever it is, seems to like the fear.
	And isn't that the case?
	A lot of this, what we're dealing with of an unexplained nature, it thrives on fear and the emotional energy that a person gives off and obviously emits when they're in the presence of these things that are totally alien to what we would consider normal.
	There also seems, and just in this minute or so before we've got to take some more commercials, there also seems to be a kind of perceived curiosity on behalf of the phenomenon, doesn't there?
	They seem to be interested.
	They seem to want to, you know, if there's a bunch of people out in the woods, they seem to want to know what they're up to in their territory.
	Yeah, there is an interest.
	And I mean, I listen to quite a few podcasts in the forests of America where they hear the sounds.
	And it's almost like these things want to make an appearance, but it's creating fear.
	I mean, anybody who's ever heard the Sierra sounds, if you were in a forest at night and you heard that, I don't think you could fail to be frightened.
	We've had them on the show, the sounds, and they're more than haunting.
	It's not just howling.
	It's absolutely terrifying.
	You know, and the guys in Broxer Forest in North Yorkshire, one of the team, one of the three men, and these guys aren't cryptid researchers, hunters, whatever word you want to use.
	These were just guys going for a wild camping weekend.
	No interest in this until this hit them, as in they couldn't avoid it.
	But he knew it were there before they even saw it.
	He wanted to leave.
	Something was affecting him.
	And when this thing appeared, all it did was stare at them, literally just stared at them with huge, self-illuminating amber eyes.
	You know, and I've met these men and I've seen the emotion that when we left that forest on the first morning, one of them put his arms around me and he was crying.
	He was so overwhelmed to have actually faced, we'll call it his demon, and I don't mean that literally, but something that had haunted him ever since the night that he saw it.
	And it's a profound, lasting effect that these things have on people.
	And it's weird, how that we're talking a few other questions, or a lot of them are addressed to the cryptid phenomena, because as you know, this is something I never thought I would be looking into actively.
	When I started out, it was UFO alien-related because of my own experiences.
	But I have to go where the evidence goes and I can't block out people's accounts and experiences just because it's not fitting in with the narrative of what I want.
	And listen, this is very naughty of me to do this.
	I'm going to get into trouble.
	But in about a minute or so, talking along the lines of the paranormal aspects of creatures that you've experienced and people have experienced, I had a conversation recently about so-called paranormal Bigfoot, the paranormal capabilities, the idea to communicate through thought and that kind of thing.
	But one thing I'd never heard before, And I wonder if you've ever come across this, that whatever it is, and I'm talking about the werewolves here, the British version of Bigfoot, whatever it might be, actually is so at home and in tune with nature, with the countryside, that it does not regard what we've been doing to it and the way that we as humans behave.
	It despairs whatever the phenomenon is and whatever those creatures are, whatever powers them, despairs of the way that we are treating our environment.
	Yeah, and there could be a lot of truth to this.
	I mean, when I've spoken to American Indians and they've said that they're almost guardians of the forests, guardians of the areas, and then you talk about people, you know, with the werewolf dogman phenomena, and they talk about these things being almost guardians or gatekeepers to the underworld and guiding people.
	Like Anubis in Egypt was said to be the guardian of the dead and guide people to the underworld.
	And all that's not quite what you'd alluded to there.
	I'm just kind of fascinated by the idea that they might in a way be our conscience.
	And I think in many cases, we probably need one.
	I'm Howard Hughes.
	My website, theunexplained.tv.
	About 820 hours of podcast material is there.
	But don't go there now because we've got business and big business with Paul Sinclair in Yorkshire tonight, talking about the truth proof books and his research.
	More of your questions.
	Graham in Colchester, Essex.
	Of all the cases you've investigated, Paul, have any made you think you're going to like this?
	Have any made you think there might be multiple timelines or multiple dimensions?
	What a question.
	Yeah.
	I mean, that's one short line and a ton of material.
	Well, there's a lot of things happening at Hummby.
	And was it all one phenomena or was it, God, what a question.
	Was it one phenomenon or was it many different types of phenomena taking advantage of a strange, I don't know, moment in time area of land that was allowing these things to slip through from the other side of the firewall?
	I don't know.
	And, you know, is it one that's presenting as many things or is it many things taking advantage of these locations, these thin areas?
	I'd need more time to answer that one.
	You've pretty much stumped me.
	But the Hum and Bee case was a gift that kept on giving.
	It's my favorite, you know, in those terms.
	I love the cryptids, but the Hum and Bee case has so many dimensions to it.
	We've talked about it before.
	You can go back to the podcasts and find it there, but it never stops giving to you.
	It had everything.
	It even had a cryptid sighting.
	And the power cuts and the radio playing that was plugged in without batteries and continuing to play.
	The batteries removed from the cars for fear of theft, yet the radios were playing in the cars in the compound.
	You know, the apports, the stones falling from the air, the coins falling from the air, poltergeist activity.
	I still wonder, Howard, if we're still dealing with one type of phenomena that's just presenting as many things.
	And I know you've got questions, but just briefly, when we talked about what the Bigfoot is and the werewolf, are we actually seeing it?
	Is it actually there?
	And it's not as stupid as it might first sound.
	You know, you hear people looking at UFOs and saying, I lifted my camera and I couldn't see it.
	I lifted up my camera and I couldn't see it.
	How does that work?
	The question is, is it there?
	And sorry for jumping in, but is it there or is it there for us?
	Is it there or is it there for us?
	Or are these things which we know can speak to us in our mind?
	If they've got that ability, who's to say they've not got the ability to somehow place images that we can see?
	I'm not subscribing to this.
	I'm just throwing it out there.
	You know, because some of the things, some of the places these things are seen, it just seems impossible.
	Yet people claim to see them.
	We're taking your questions as well on WhatsApp if you want to.
	WhatsApp 03444991000.
	At this stage of the game, you're going to have to keep it to one quick line as a question.
	Otherwise, we're not going to have time.
	David asks, ask Paul about the large iron doors at the foot of Bempton Cliffs, which were commented on by an elderly gentleman some time ago on Facebook.
	Paul knows about this.
	I do.
	And various rock anglers who've got round to the bottom of these cliffs have told me that they're there.
	They've seen these.
	I wouldn't say doors.
	I think it's a steel door that links up to the old RAF base.
	And then you've got other people who've said there's no such thing.
	It's not there.
	But I've spoken to, I wouldn't say two or three, I've spoken to quite a number of people that claim to have seen them and a number of military personnel that have said that during the 1960s, they'd actually gone onto the beach.
	Well, it's not beach.
	There's no beach there, people.
	It's just rocks and water most of the time from this steel door.
	So I don't really know what else you want me to add to that one.
	I mean, there's a guy called Andy Barnby, a really experienced rock angler, knows the tides and everything because he's offered to take me around there.
	We'd have to get cut off by the tide and wait for it to recede to get back.
	And you've got to go on a very, very low tide.
	So that's something I do want to do.
	And I'd probably get to it this year.
	And, you know, I don't see why not.
	I've been wanting to do for quite a while.
	I mean, and who's to say that it's not, there's rock falls in area.
	And who's to say that it's not covered by a rockfall?
	I'd like to see it myself if it exists.
	Let's put it that way.
	This is a big question.
	Jonathan, you've asked a ton of questions here.
	I'm not going to be able to get through them all, but a lot of them are ufological in nature.
	Jonathan wants to know, regular listener, good friend of the show, what's been going on lately in the eastern North Yorkshire area re-UFO sightings?
	That's a big question.
	Well, it's the light form phenomena, Jonathan, that we keep trying to document on the cliff tops.
	There were a pretty scary moment just after Christmas with one of the guys that came up where an orange light Almost surrounded him.
	We didn't see it.
	So, why am I thinking to myself, well, this guy could be just imagining it?
	Because about five minutes after, we all saw an egg-shaped black object moving along the hedgerow.
	That's not orange.
	I realize that.
	So, there's lots of things.
	Last week in, sorry, yeah, last week I got the report.
	I haven't got enough details to go into any detail at the moment as such.
	But Sphere of Light two weeks ago, I only received the report last week in Danesdyke in the daytime where people were allegedly chased or had to run out of Danesdyke and on the north side, the side where people don't normally go.
	And whether I'll get more information on this and we'll probably talk about it in more detail.
	So lots of things happening.
	There's a place called Hartendale Gutter, which is just a drain that drains the fields off and runs into the sea.
	There's been a big cat sighting at Hartendale Gutter.
	I know that's not ufological, but yes, still lots and lots of things.
	And I mean, I'm only one person.
	I'm not up there all the time, even though I might go four or five times a week.
	I can't live there.
	So, you know, other people are bound to be sitting on accounts, not necessarily in the last few weeks, but the truth, as they say, is out there.
	There was a story that I did in the news segment of the show, Top of the Hour, or close to the beginning of the last hour.
	This was from Unexplained Mysteries, who I think got it from somewhere else.
	Devon, it says, it's not exactly the first place you'd think of when it comes to Bigfoot.
	Essentially, coastal path, big footprints.
	A bunch of people who saw, I'm just quickly reading through this, but Maiden Kum Coastal Path, March the 2nd, so just days ago.
	A group of people were able to follow some very big, like size 11, size 12 prints, 20 meters.
	Quotes, the prints were big, said one of the group.
	I'm a size 11.
	They were half as big again.
	So we're talking about like even bigger than my feet, size 15 or something like that.
	You know, do you hear a lot of those kind of stories?
	We do, yeah.
	We hear stories of prints on North Yorkshire Moors in sludgy, in the sludgier areas of the moorland when it's been wet.
	I got, I think a guy called David Hind from Bridlington.
	Lovely guy.
	Town crier, incidentally, David.
	And just for David, loudest voice in the world, if you want to look him up.
	Lovely, lovely guy.
	Absolutely brilliant.
	But David sent me some pictures of some strange canine prints that were on beach.
	Now, they weren't the size that you're talking about, but they were too big to be a normal dog.
	So they were unusual.
	So yeah, we do get reports like that to Howard.
	Yeah.
	I wonder if they've got any casts of those prints that you're talking about at Devon.
	I suppose if it's sand, it might be difficult, depending how firm sand is.
	My radio bosses worry about me proposing these things, but I might be able to do this independently from my podcast and not involve the radio show.
	We'll see how we could make this happen if we could.
	Have you ever, and I'm sorry to put you on the spot like this, but you and I have known each other for years.
	And tell me exactly what you think of this.
	If you think it's a stupid idea, that's fine.
	I'm used to that.
	And I have them all the time.
	The idea that we could somehow put something together where we try and not exactly summon, but go to a place where stuff is quite likely to happen and see what we might see.
	Or do you think it wouldn't present itself for us in a circumstance like that?
	I think it would be worth trying.
	I'm game for that, Howard.
	If you wanted to have a go at that on whatever terms you wanted to do it on, you know, as in just yourself or with the show, yeah, let's give it a go.
	I'm game for that.
	It might be something that they won't permit me to do on the radio, but I'm fairly resourceful and I understand equipment and I can make things happen.
	So I think it's a good idea.
	We've been trying to organize a live stream on the cliff tops.
	So I mean, an unexplained from those clifftops might be quite exciting for your listeners.
	You know, and I'm sure, you know, the 4G and 5G signals are pretty good everywhere.
	Well, 4G definitely, pretty good everywhere now.
	So we could probably make something happen.
	Leave that one with me, Paul, because I think the time has come for this.
	In terms of the books, right, there have been four of the books.
	You told me about a year or so ago that you were easing back on that for now because of the Wolflands documentary and all the other stuff that you're involved in, including, of course, the great recent interview with Robbie Williams on his experiences.
	Are you going to go back to the books?
	I will be doing, yeah.
	I said I was going to ease back, but I keep adding accounts and adding accounts.
	And I've started one.
	And I think it'll be titled because I've created this word, the sub-universe, the submersed universe.
	Because obviously I'm on Edgett North Sea here in eastern North Yorkshire.
	And I think a lot of what we're looking for, or some of it, could reside, could be coming from the sub-universe below the seas.
	So, you know, when you consider that 95% of the oceans of the world are uncharted, unknown, let's stop looking at space and let's consider the fact that some of this phenomena, phenomenon, depending on whether it's one or many, could reside below the sub-universe.
	So, yeah, sorry for rambling there.
	I'm doing it myself, am I?
	No, no.
	Yes, I'm considering writing.
	I'm on with another book, yeah, The Sub-Universe.
	And that, as they say, is it.
	The 800th edition of The Unexplained.
	Thank you for being with me on this journey.
	I know there are some people hearing this in different parts of the world, including my own, who will have followed the show from edition one.
	From all the guests, from the likes of Bird Bell Moore, who's no longer with us and was a great guest at the very beginning, all the way to, most recently, people like Paul Sinclair and the head of GCHQ, former head of GCHQ, Sir David Omond, and scientists like Michio Karku,
	people who became good friends from the old Art Bell show, like Richard C. Hoagland, for example, and people who are no longer with us, including Stanton T. Friedman, who I absolutely loved, the ufologist, the father of modern ufology, Jim Mars, of course, in Texas, no longer with us, and so many others, and Edgar Mitchell, the astronaut.
	We featured a whole cornucopia of people here, and I hope that as long as I'm able to, as long as I can afford to keep it going, and as long as I can keep me going, then I'm hoping to get to edition 1000.
	Let's see if we can do that.
	More great guests in the pipeline here at the home of The Unexplained.
	Till next, we meet.
	My name is Howard Hughes.
	This has been the 800th edition of The Unexplained, and please, whatever you do, as ever, stay safe, stay calm, and above all, please stay in touch.
	Thank you very much.
	Take care.

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