Aviation journalist/broadcaster Brian Wilson in Australia and investigator Florence de Changy in Malaysia on the 10th anniversary of missing flight MH370 - that vanished on a flight from Kuala Lumpur to Beijing... And Ryan S Wood on UFO retrievals...
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| Across the UK, across continental North America, and around the world on the internet, by webcast and by podcast. | |
| My name is Howard Hughes. | |
| This is The Unexplained. | |
| Well, I'm hoping that everything is good with you. | |
| It's been a very busy week in my life so far, and it is not over yet. | |
| Not by a country mile. | |
| But spring is here, and the sunshine is pouring into my window. | |
| I ain't complaining. | |
| It would be nice to have a little bit of time for myself, but more of that. | |
| More of that soon. | |
| Thank you very much for all of your emails and the things that you've been saying about the show and me. | |
| Very gratefully received, and always ideas and guest suggestions are also gratefully received by me. | |
| Edition 800 is coming soon, and I'm coming to the idea, and the consensus seems to be that maybe I should do a show about my life story. | |
| And since I've reached this stage of my life, maybe it's time that I did that so that it's recorded somewhere. | |
| You know, most of it, I think, might be of some interest. | |
| It is a picture of an era, and it's a picture of a life story. | |
| And, you know, people like that kind of thing. | |
| So I would welcome your questions for edition 800 if I go ahead with that for me. | |
| Okay, more details of that coming soon. | |
| Now, the guests on this edition of The Unexplained, two segments from my radio shows. | |
| Segment number one is Brian Wilson, Australian aviation journalist and broadcaster, talking about MH370 that he's been heavily involved in. | |
| It is the sad 10th anniversary of that terrible happening, the disappearance of the plane with so many people on board. | |
| We'll talk with him about that, what he believes the latest to be. | |
| And we'll also talk again to Florence Deshangy, the author who wrote The Disappearing Act about MH370 and who featured on this podcast, if you go back through the archives a couple of years ago. | |
| So those two things, Brian Wilson in Australia and Florence Deshangy, who'd been when we recorded the conversation in Kuala Lumpur, where there'd just been a memorial for the people who are as yet still unaccounted for on MH370. | |
| And after that, another item from the show, Ryan S. Wood, will be talking about his book, Magic Eyes Only, Earth's Encounters with Extraterrestrial Technology. | |
| We'll talk a lot about so-called crash retrievals with Ryan S. Wood. | |
| So, two topics, three good people on this edition of The Unexplained, all from the radio show kept here for posterity. | |
| Thank you very much to my webmaster, Adam. | |
| Remember, if you want to get in touch with me, you can do it through the website theunexplained.tv. | |
| And yes, there have been some changes at the place that I work once a week. | |
| Talk TV, of course, is going off linear television that you would have read. | |
| There are consequences to that, and I will know those soon enough, but not at the moment, and certainly not for this podcast right now. | |
| Okay, let's get to the first guests and the first item on this edition of The Unexplained. | |
| That is Florence de Changy in Kuala Lumpur and Brian Wilson in Australia about the 10th anniversary of the disappearance of Flight MH370. | |
| Shortly after midnight on 8th of March local time, air traffic controllers lost contact with the jet while it was over the South China Sea. | |
| Over the following weeks, painstaking analysis of radar tracking and a succession of satellite pings showed the jet veered off course and flew west over the Southeast Asia Peninsula before turning south over the Indian Ocean. | |
| When a passenger aircraft disappears over the likely path, looking for debris on the surface of the water and searching the seabed is in a narrowly defined area. | |
| That was how the 2009 black boxes revealed the tragic series of pilot errors that led to the loss of 228 lives aboard the Rio Paris flight, or a Rio Paris flight, AF-447 over the Atlantic. | |
| The flight data recorder and cockpit voice recorder of MH370 together with deducing who was on the flight deck may provide equally valuable evidence about the fate of the aircraft and more importantly, provide closure for the families. | |
| Yet, finding the aircraft has defeated the entire transport safety community and inevitably, the vacuum has been filled over these last 10 years with speculation. | |
| That was my summation of a piece that ran in the Independent. | |
| It is worth searching and finding if you want to know the full facts of this. | |
| Let's get on now, man. | |
| We've had on this story many times. | |
| Brian Wilson, who is an expert on these matters. | |
| Brian, thank you very much for doing this. | |
| How would you like me to refer to you? | |
| Oh, Will Howard, I'm a broadcast journalist in Australia and also an aviation expert with a lot of years' experience. | |
| And I think you've summed it up really well. | |
| It is the most unexplained aviation incident in modern times. | |
| So 10 years on, when we first spoke many years ago, I think it was probably unimaginable that we'd still be talking about it today. | |
| And strangely enough, as you said, it's been a case of not so much finding out the who, what, why, where, how, but really dancing around so many areas where there's been, I guess, 10 years of theories that have come thick and fast, all with their pros and cons, and probably some with more cons than common sense. | |
| So certainly it's been a very, very, very moving and sad story. | |
| Now, yesterday I can tell you that the families and the next of Keen and those supporters met in Kuala Lumpur for a remembrance service, as they have done every year since this particular aircraft went missing. | |
| There's still pain, there's still sadness, but more than ever, there's an overriding demand to find the plane. | |
| There have been, as that independent article suggested, many theories, many explanations by many people who got credentials within aviation and some people who haven't. | |
| A lot of people have had their two cents, and many of the theories are difficult to stand up, I think. | |
| You know, a lot of people have, for example, there are theories that the plane was somehow beamed up by a secret technology and the people taken away, or it landed at some secret military base, Diego Garcia, wherever it was, and the people were spirited away somehow. | |
| You go from there to explanations that this was to do with the pilot who flew round in circles so that if anybody was trying to trace the aircraft, they'd find it harder to trace it. | |
| So many people have had their input into this story, haven't they, Brian? | |
| Do any of the theories that you have heard so far seem more credible than others? | |
| Well, look, there's 10 main theories that have come together, and without doubt, probably the two that stack up the most are largely that of either a pilot murder, suicide, slash hijacking, or a situation involving lithium batteries. | |
| Now, there was a French investigation that went down the pathway of identifying an unidentified 200-pound payload onto the aircraft. | |
| But look, there certainly has been a plethora of theories, documentaries, television features. | |
| There's been more than 126 books on what happened to MH370. | |
| I think the thing that we're at now, 10 years on, is the fact that we've also had a lot of technology go into it. | |
| And so it's not so much what we don't know about it, but it's what we do know. | |
| We do know that the MRSET satellite, the data from that, when the engines pinged and did its little handshake with the satellite, we know that that data had to be manually transponded. | |
| So there's a propensity there for error in translating that and transposing that into precise geographic locations. | |
| We know that drift modeling is an imprecise science and drift modelling largely determined where those three searches in the southern Indian Ocean were carried out. | |
| And we also know that there was a cyclone north of the area searched on the day after the incident, after the aircraft went missing. | |
| So we've got to ask, if the plane ditched into the southern sectors of the Indian Ocean, why didn't those currents wash debris up into Australia? | |
| And I think one of the things that comes from it is after 10 years of analysis and things like that, we can actually say that the search area itself where those three searches took place was actually wrong. | |
| It was actually a little bit further north on that seventh arc. | |
| And I can tell you yesterday, it was again confirmed that the US marine robotics company has again put an offer to the Malaysian government for research on a no-find, no-fee basis. | |
| So it seems to indicate that the question of how it got there is probably secondly to where it is now and why we need to find it. | |
| Do you think we ever will? | |
| Look, I think the big question is, is there a will to find it on the part of the Malaysian government? | |
| The Malaysian government were at the Kuala Lumpur commemoration yesterday, very senior officials there. | |
| They actually said they are still keen to find the aircraft, but they won't entertain any searches unless there's compelling new evidence. | |
| And the emphasis was on the word compelling. | |
| So from their point of view, you've got to say, well, hang on. | |
| If we find that, there's probably going to be lawsuits. | |
| And if there's lawsuits, the Malaysian government, Malaysian Airlines, Boeing, a dozen others will face massive legal bills. | |
| So I think whilst there's a heartbreaking passion on the part of the families and the next of kin who'd lost people, the 239 people that were killed on board that particular flight, perhaps the politics, the money, and the overlay there will mean that the aircraft will never be found in that respect. | |
| The one thing that I would say, however, which is the interesting part in the story of the last 10 years, is that in 2017, there was a German survey company undertaking other work in and around the area known as the Zenith Plateau. | |
| And to give you an idea, that's about 1,700 kilometers northwest of Perth. | |
| It's in an area of the ocean where the shipping lines don't go. | |
| Even the illegal longline fishing fleets don't go there. | |
| Now, when they were doing some of their work there, they actually came across an accidental sonar reflection of an angular form that intersects with a curved area, much what you would see like looking down the right side of a plane. | |
| That seems to collaborate and it seems to affirm some of those other mathematical calculations when you actually re-transpose that satellite data. | |
| So perhaps if we can get a deep diving investigation into that area, it's in seven kilometers of water, which is incredibly deep, we might actually be able to find the answers. | |
| But personally, I think after 10 years, there's lots of political goodwill, but there's probably an absence of political will to actually locate the aircraft. | |
| Brian, thank you so much for that. | |
| Brian Wilson, we've talked many times about missing flight MH370. | |
| The story will be in the news a great deal this week because the 8th of March, which is coming up in a couple of days, a few days from now, is going to be the anniversary. | |
| A couple of years ago, I think it was probably three, we were in the midst of COVID. | |
| I spoke with Florence Deshangy, and she is one of the many people who've written one of those 126 books on this. | |
| Florence got a lot of international coverage on her book, The Disappearing Act. | |
| And if you want to hear all about that, there's a conversation on my podcast at theunexplained.tv. | |
| Florence Deshangy has been reporting and investigating MH370 since 2014. | |
| The mystery never solved as you've been hearing. | |
| She argues the mystery itself is the greatest con of all. | |
| In her book, she argues that current theories are off the mark and that there's been a combined effort to cover the truth up. | |
| A newspaper headline in 2022 said, an MH370 expert claims The doomed jet was shot down by the U.S. Air Force in a bid to stop secret tech reaching China. | |
| France de Changi is online to us now from Kuala Lumpur. | |
| Florence, thank you very much for waiting. | |
| Do you still believe that? | |
| Actually, the shooting has never been my theory. | |
| What I am absolutely clear more than ever is that the plane never crashed in the southern Indian Ocean and that the pilot, the captain, was absolutely above doubt. | |
| Those are two key elements that I have established already a long time ago, that I have re-established. | |
| And ever since my book came out, all the extra news and you know the Netflix and all these other documentaries that you may have mentioned, they confirm these two key elements. | |
| The plane is not and never crashed in the southern Indian Ocean and the captain was a very, very good and reliable person. | |
| If people, it's easy to mention, you know, hundreds of books and hundreds of theories to create a very confused image about what has been said. | |
| But there are people who are serious in this business and there are people who talk without credentials or without knowledge of the issue. | |
| And the problem is that when we have just a short time, it's very difficult for people to make the difference. | |
| Among the many people who are talking on this, how many are real journalists? | |
| I'm actually facing a lot of opposition just because I'm one of the few, very, very, very few real journalists. | |
| You know, there are bloggers who call themselves journalists. | |
| There are people who are not in this field. | |
| I am, I think, a serious, 30 years of experience in this part of the world. | |
| I put my credibility on the table when I dare to say that this is a cover-up. | |
| The plane is not, was never in the southern Indian Ocean. | |
| I think we won't find the plane. | |
| I think we will find the truth. | |
| We will find the truth. | |
| And what do you think the truth is likely to be? | |
| Most of my work has not been to decide whether it was a missile, a laser weapon, or anything else. | |
| It has been to dismantle and to disprove the official narrative. | |
| It is easy when you pay attention to find that from the U-turn that they've not even been able to recreate in simulator to the flight over Malaysia, which is based on radar data, that is completely inconsistent with a B777. | |
| I mean, it goes on like that until the in Marsat ghost flight that has never been used to locate a plane, that has failed to locate the plane, and that has never tried, I mean, managed to locate a plane ever since. | |
| I mean, that method. | |
| So this is on what the official narrative is based. | |
| And then some debris, very suspicious, and if I can share with you, because yes, I was in Kuala Lumpur, I am in Kuala Lumpur and I was yesterday at the ceremony, and I found it utterly shocking and inappropriate to put on display, | |
| like there was maybe 10 pieces of debris, including, I mean, most of them not confirmed, one supposedly confirmed, but how and exactly we've never known. | |
| And remember that there is only two established, I mean, two confirmed debris. | |
| One is the Flapron and again, so the French Flapron, the first one, which has been found 5,000 kilometers away from the crush area and 500 days later. | |
| How can a piece of broken plane float for 5,000 kilometers in the fiercest ocean of the planet for 500 days? | |
| After 50 days, the Prime Minister at the time, it was not the brightest, probably the worst Australia ever had, but at least he made common sense when he said, well, I'm sorry, it's 50 days. | |
| By now, everything will have sunk. | |
| Yet 500 days later, they pretend that something has basically been able to float and ride. | |
| I made the calculation that the thing had to go on straight line for like seven or 10 miles a day to reach its destination. | |
| It was nonsensical to start with. | |
| And then when you start looking at it, it has even lost its plate. | |
| So to dare claim that this debris has some credibility is shocking. | |
| And yes, I know it's not nice to hear, but plenty of evidence happened. | |
| I know that they will soon talk about the Lockerbie and the Lockerbie crash. | |
| And you will see that there was plenty of evidence. | |
| So this thing happened. | |
| It's sad. | |
| It's inconvenient. | |
| It's unpleasant, but it happens. | |
| Okay, well, I'm not aware of that. | |
| And the case of MH370, of course, is going to make, as you know, and that's why you're in Kuala Lumpur. | |
| International headlines, Florence. | |
| Look, there are people who say that this plane may have been beamed up by some secret technology. | |
| People who say that the plane actually landed on a secret military base and perhaps the people on board were somehow decamped and disappeared. | |
| I mean, that's been suggested among many, many things. | |
| And theories that the plane had been shot down. | |
| There are so many different theories. | |
| It's 10 years on. | |
| Do you think the truth is something that is always elusive, and especially in a case like this? | |
| But it's looking like it is elusive to the point where we will never find it. | |
| No, I don't agree with that. | |
| I think all it takes, I mean, it was too big an operation to not involve quite a few people. | |
| I know a few people who have been silenced. | |
| Actually, I mean, I mentioned the case of Sir Tim Clark, you know, the CEO of Emirates. | |
| He was speaking very loudly and complaining about this because he was at the head of the largest fleet of B777 in the world. | |
| He still is, you know, Emirates, the Gulf company Airlines. | |
| And at the beginning, he was saying, like, I don't buy any of that story. | |
| I will keep talking about it until I know what happened. | |
| And suddenly he stopped talking. | |
| And I claimed that. | |
| Okay, well, look, we don't have him booked to talk on the show tonight, whether you would Appear or not, but I hear what you say about that. | |
| You've been in Kuala Lumpur, there was another ceremony here, and the people we have to feel for are the families, the loved ones of those whose fate they still do not know. | |
| What was it like to be in Kuala Lumpur over this weekend? | |
| Very sad, I must say. | |
| Of course, I noticed because I followed the families for about, well, the whole time basically, and I saw that after about five years, they started hoping in life again. | |
| I mean, starting life again. | |
| Some people, Grace, for example, who lost her mom, she's now married. | |
| She had two little children that we saw on stage. | |
| So all of this was very nice. | |
| What I found shocking, as I said, is the fact that some debris, so-called debris, were there. | |
| And I actually spoke with many other people who do not believe that the plane crashed in the southern Indian Ocean. | |
| There was the Chinese families there. | |
| Some of them, you know, they have received phone calls or the phones continue to ring for a few days after. | |
| So the Chinese families, they are the ones who refuse the memorial in Australia because they don't believe that the plane, I mean, that their loved ones are lost in the southern Indian Ocean. | |
| So it was a bit confused. | |
| I think people are still hoping and of course they hang on to the hope of search because it's the only thing they give them to hope. | |
| But I really wish they realized that the truth is elsewhere than in the southern Indian Ocean. | |
| And on that note, if I can just say one thing is that, yes, they're talking of starting a search again. | |
| And if ever they were picking one or two new pieces in the depth of the southern Indian Ocean, people need to be aware in advance that when a plane crash in the ocean, and we have the case of AF447 for record, it creates a field of debris. | |
| So if you find one debris at the bottom, you need to find a million debris. | |
| So let's say at least 100 very serious pieces. | |
| And I know that it's possible to recreate another planted evidence at the bottom of the sea that someone, let's say an engine, for example. | |
| But it will only be credible if you find and locate a whole field of debris, like in the case of AF447, that was spread about in four, like one square kilometer, and you had basically 80% of the plane at the bottom of the ocean. | |
| So that will be something to watch. | |
| But believe me, they will not find it there. | |
| Earlier today, Reuters reported that, and I quote Reuters, Malaysia is pushing for a renewed search for MH370. | |
| The transport minister said today, as the 10th anniversary of the disappearance emerges. | |
| Do you think that that renewed search will happen? | |
| It's possible that it happens because, you know, they've been really taking, I think, the families for a ride non-stop. | |
| So they keep hoping, promising, doing it a little bit, not finding something, then promising another search. | |
| I mean, when the Australian concluded their report in October 2017, they said, which was shocking at the time, that yes, they did not find it, but they were like, I forgot the exact expression, but like completely certain or something as bad as that, that the plane was actually in this little area that they missed or that they could not survey due to lack of time. | |
| So it was incredible. | |
| It was like we failed, but we actually know now more than ever where it really is. | |
| Well, unfortunately, one or two years later, when Ocean Infinity, the company we mentioned before, started their search, they went immediately there. | |
| The search was done in a matter of days and there was nothing. | |
| So, you know, there has been this constant attitude of keeping hope alive on the wrong lead. | |
| Do you think that somebody somewhere, a number of people tonight know what happened to MH370? | |
| And for that reason, people like you need to continue pushing, pushing at this door. | |
| Yes, we just need one of these few people who know to be brave enough, crazy enough, conscious enough, you know, with a high morale or whatever, to speak out. | |
| And to be honest, I already have sources, but unfortunately, I can't quote them. | |
| I need to protect them. | |
| And yes, I need to find a way with enough corroborating evidence to come out without compromising the sources. | |
| And as he rightly said, Florence, and thank you for doing this. | |
| Just as we come to the end of this, I remember the conversation that you and I had. | |
| I was sitting exactly here where I'm doing this show tonight. | |
| And I remember that you were very much about pointing up in the book the things about this case that you believe do not stack up. | |
| And I am presuming several years on from the publication of the book, I think it was, was it 2022 the book came out, 2021, you stand behind all of that still? | |
| Yeah, I stand behind 100% of the demonstration that the plane was not in the southern Indian Ocean. | |
| I stand even more than before behind the fact that the captain was a very good person. | |
| The few things I have improved, let's say, is about the final hypothetical scenario. | |
| But again, that's what people concentrate on. | |
| It's not the most important part of my book. | |
| You've been hearing the thoughts and views of Florence de Changy, who's been in Kuala Lumpur for what will have been a very emotional weekend. | |
| And Florence, thank you very much indeed for doing this. | |
| Ten years on from the disappearance of Flight MH370, I know there's at least one documentary going to air in the United Kingdom. | |
| It is a very disturbing case, but at the bottom end of it, in the ultimate, you have to think about the families, the families of the air crew, the families of those people who were on board that plane, who never, for a whole 10 years of their lives, were able to go to bed at night without thinking of what might have happened and where that plane and those people might be. | |
| My continuing grateful Thanks to both Florence Deshangy and Brian Wilson. | |
| We'll keep following this story. | |
| If there is a new search or new information, then of course we'll tell you here about it first. | |
| Next item, Ryan S. Wood, who's written a book and done a lot of research about UFO crash retrievals. | |
| Magic Eyes Only is the book we're going to be talking about. | |
| Earth's Encounters with Extraterrestrial Technology, the most authoritative and comprehensive chronicle ever published, it says here, on the subject of worldwide UFO crashes and subsequently military retrievals, from Get This, 1897 to the present day. | |
| The author guides the reader through 104 UFO crash incidents supported by compelling evidence in the form of official documents, eyewitnesses, and in some cases, physical evidence. | |
| That is the publicity material. | |
| The man behind this research into a fascinating field of endeavor in ufology is Ryan S. Wood. | |
| He's online to us now. | |
| Ryan, thank you so much for making time for me. | |
| Well, it's great to be here, Howard. | |
| I'm delighted to share my research with your audience. | |
| You're described as an author and UFO lecturer. | |
| Does that fit? | |
| Well, for the most part, probably in this genre. | |
| I mean, my career has been the son of a rocket scientist who was studying anti-gravity at McDonnell Douglas when I was 15 years old. | |
| And so that initially triggered my interest, but I really had most of my professional career in a corporate world of Intel and semiconductors and computer systems and medical imaging. | |
| And only in the past, I'd say 20 years or so have things been really hot, maybe 30 years for UFOs. | |
| And I guess the biggest sort of ufological claim is that I ran seven UFO crash retrieval conferences in 2003 through 2009 before our whistleblower, Mr. Grush, was ever on the scene and wrote the first edition of Magic Eyes Only in 2005 and then updated it last year. | |
| Now, because we're on radio, we have to say that the spelling of magic is quite important and very, well, those who know about UFOs will understand this. | |
| It's M-A-J-I-C. | |
| And I'm taking it, and you can tell me whether this is an oblique reference to majestic 12, who were, of course, the great and the good government people, scientists, and others who were tasked with dealing with exactly what we're going to be talking about. | |
| Yeah, you're right on. | |
| It's actually an acronym. | |
| It stands for Military Assessment of the Joint Intelligence Committee. | |
| That was a 1947 memo. | |
| And that's been the code word, Top Secret Magic, Top Secret MJ12, Majestic 12. | |
| These are all synonyms for the same sort of top secret research and development group that was established in 1947 by Harry Truman to recover and exploit these, shall I say, celestial gifts from other civilizations, so to speak, and exploit them for maximum military advantage. | |
| And you believe that's what they are, celestial gifts? | |
| Well, I'd say that's one interpretation. | |
| Other interpretations are they ran out of fuel and happened to crash here, or we shot them down, or they were interfered with by strong negative lightning bolts, or our radar systems. | |
| There's a whole bunch of reasons why they might crash on our small planet. | |
| I happen to think that we might be a strategic island, so to speak, in the galaxy like Hawaii is on planet Earth. | |
| One of the best emails that I ever had to this show came from a listener who I was having a conversation with about UAP's UFOs and crashes and some famous cases, I think it was possibly which we may get into discussing, the famous Kexberg case. | |
| But anyway, we were having a conversation about this with an expert. | |
| And this person emailed to say, if they're able to travel light years from wherever they exist or come to us from another dimension, isn't it strange that they will run out of fuel or the gearbox will break and they'll crash? | |
| And I find that a very powerful argument. | |
| If they've got such superior technology, how on earth could they crash? | |
| Yeah, that's a great question. | |
| And you echo some of the questions that Congress posed to David Krushch. | |
| I think one of the things we have to think about is that we value our human lives, and we would never think of sending men to the moon and not having a way for them to come back. | |
| They may not have those same values. | |
| And this may be a one-way mission to explore the universe as fast as possible. | |
| So that they're ultimately expendable, the crew's expendable. | |
| Yeah, and they may in fact be biological drones and sort of a hybrid mechanical, biological craft or entities, certainly with expanded capabilities. | |
| Okay, we'll talk more about this and also detail some of the famous cases and what your research means in connection with those cases. | |
| Ryan S. Wood is here. | |
| We're talking about UFO UAP crashes, the retrievals, and the cover-up. | |
| Most people, Ryan, would assume that the history of this goes back to the most famous case, the daddy of them all, Roswell, but you think that's not so. | |
| Yeah, you can go back to Mount Ararat in 3000 BC with the CIA's undue interest in This site. | |
| Lots of research and aerial photography, but that's sort of maybe a sidebar. | |
| 1897 in Aurora, Texas, which is listed in some of the majestic documents. | |
| It seems to be the first sort of crash event where there was a little alien buried in a cemetery with a headstone who mysteriously disappears in the 70s and radioactivity. | |
| And it has the typical hallmarks of a crash retrieval. | |
| And then you can go forward to 1933, where David Rush highlighted a crash in Italy, which may have wound its way into Nazi Germany and the rumors of Nazi saucers. | |
| I don't have any evidence to support that Nazis ever did that, but it's there. | |
| Things that I'm more confident in are the Battle of LA in 1942, where illumination by floodlights and pictures in the LA Times and a lot of anti-aircraft fire and reports of two crashes, one in the San Bernardino Mountains and one in the Pacific Ocean, where the Navy recovered it. | |
| And I can keep going. | |
| Yep. | |
| There are so many. | |
| And I mentioned Kexburg, which was December 1965. | |
| Kecksburg, Pennsylvania, a fireball reported in six U.S. states and Canada. | |
| Astonishing. | |
| And they said it may have been a meteor, but there was much more to the Kexburg case than met the eye. | |
| In Wales, we have the famous Bering Mountains incident of 1974, where they say something crashed, but then again, the explanation was it may well have been a meteor. | |
| That was the one that was put out in the newspapers eventually. | |
| There seems to be a history of these things happening and then reports of retrieval. | |
| So I suppose if we limit it for the moment to the United States, but we can also talk about the rest of the world, if retrieval is going on, who is doing the retrieving? | |
| Well, that's a great question. | |
| There's sort of, I'd say, two classes of retrieval. | |
| One is something called Project Moondust, which is a known, authentic, acknowledged program by the United States, primarily to pick up Russian, Chinese, everybody's space junk or things that fall to the earth. | |
| But in this process, occasionally extraterrestrial craft get picked up. | |
| And there's a couple of cases in the book in Bolivia and South America about those crash retrievals where there's actual moon dust and documentation evidence about the crash retrieval. | |
| And then it disappears into the black hole of military analysis. | |
| So that's sort of the pedestrian straightforward. | |
| And then there's the more aggressive ones that might have occurred in Rendlesham Forest, where you have teams of specialized people in hazmat suits that showed up at Roswell and other crashes as they tracked it and monitored it or it's been reported and they recover those objects, | |
| those bodies, and then package them up and send them to Area 51S4 or Wright-Patterson Blue Lab in Ohio or the equivalent facilities in England. | |
| Well, you referenced Rendlesham Forest. | |
| Of course, those were the events that we've talked about so many times here. | |
| Of course, we would doing a show like this. | |
| December 1980, a number of nights, strange incidents involving twin air bases that were side by side in Suffolk. | |
| That's Bent Waters and the other one was Woodbridge. | |
| You know, they were USAF. | |
| They're not anymore, but USAF and RAF side by side there. | |
| And this was the era of the Cold War. | |
| Something decidedly strange happened. | |
| I think we can agree on that. | |
| Are you saying that there was some kind of retrieval up there? | |
| Yeah, my understanding is C-141 full of soldiers and personnel flew in and went into the forest immediately to observe, manage, retrieve, engage. | |
| I don't know quite what happened. | |
| I mean, we have the testimony of Burroughs and Holt and other soldiers about what was going on. | |
| And really, I'm not the expert in that case. | |
| I mean, I would look to Peter Robbins or I would look to the other people, Georgina Brunei, wrote books about this. | |
| Who indeed I had on my show many years ago. | |
| A lot was written and said. | |
| I was just interested to get your thought. | |
| But the bottom line of it is, looking at your own country and perhaps other places, what flows from this is that there are a bunch of people, perhaps they are, well, they must be, specialists in what they do, who are on standby and ready. | |
| Maybe they know what's coming already. | |
| So that if anything crashes and it would cause a bit of a stir if it was known about, they deploy themselves pretty quickly, get it all swept out, all traces of it removed, and take it away to somewhere like, as you say, Area 51 in the US or right pat. | |
| That's absolutely right. | |
| You got the scenario down. | |
| And I think these teams are, I think there's UK teams. | |
| I think that there's cooperation between the UK and America and maybe some other allies too, New Zealand and so forth. | |
| The Five Eyes, Australia as well. | |
| And I think They don't ask permission. | |
| You know, if one crashes in Peru, they'll just go in and take it and ask for forgiveness later if they get caught. | |
| So you're saying that the American team, I mean, the claim was made, I think, about Roswell, that a special group arrived to deal with that and completely purge the site of any traces of what had happened. | |
| You're saying that if that happens in neighboring countries, perhaps in Central or South America, that the U.S. team will go in, you know, incognito and deal with it. | |
| Yeah, that's right. | |
| I think that's absolutely right. | |
| And in the case of Roswell that you brought up, they had what they call SED, Sandia Engineering District. | |
| Sandia Air Force Base was right near Roswell. | |
| They were flown in and they were in their best chemical suits of 1947. | |
| And still three of them died of profuse bleeding from the nose and mouth, which reminds me of Eboli and also triggered them, no doubt, to investigate the potential for biological weapons. | |
| Or indeed extreme radiation, I guess, might have those effects, but I'm not an expert in those things. | |
| How were those deaths explained? | |
| Do you know? | |
| It's not in any of the majestic documents, just that they said they died. | |
| And I suspect it may be a combination of both things. | |
| It could be radiation poisoning. | |
| It could be some sort of biological interaction. | |
| You say that the material, perhaps biological, perhaps mechanical, whatever it might be, the metals and other things are spirited away to places whose names we know because we talk about these things all the time. | |
| What do you think America has got? | |
| What do you think they're keeping? | |
| Well, I think that fundamentally their great crime against humanity is that they figured out maybe from these craft or from these people or from solid research, control of gravity, gravity control. | |
| So they know how to manipulate gravity and they're keeping that a super proprietary secret that only a few people or organizations know how to use. | |
| We certainly haven't seen it in any militaries, but that is the great crime in my mind because that is the free energy. | |
| They could have done fusion too, but that's the secret, the fundamental secret. | |
| I'm sure they have material secrets. | |
| They layered bismuth magnesium parts and they got insights into new fiber optics and new integrated circuit designs. | |
| But it's like if you were to give, you know, the common man in year 2000 the controls to, or year 1000 or 0 AD or something, the controls to a helicopter, they go, wow, I don't know how to do this and it might crash. | |
| Right. | |
| And you said at the beginning of this, very modestly, that as a kid, you stood at the side of a scientist who was working on this gravitational physics. | |
| Of course, that person was your father, wasn't it? | |
| Dr. Robert Edward. | |
| Yeah, yeah, Dr. Bob Wood. | |
| He spent his entire life at McDonnell Douglas or Douglas Aircraft in the McDonnell Douglas and was always on the edge of trying to figure out how it worked, but never clued in to what really was going on inside the government. | |
| I mean, was he involved in back engineering? | |
| No, well, not directly with any extraterrestrial hardware, but certainly the way it goes or the story or the comments from my father are he was making a presentation to the management of McDonnell Douglas, and they asked him, well, what have you done new or differently? | |
| And he said, well, I've read 50 books on UFOs and there's only one question left. | |
| And they said, well, what's that? | |
| And he said, are we going to figure out how UFOs work before or after Lockheed does? | |
| So that brings us to a subsidiary question, and we can ask that question in the minutes leading to our next commercial break here, I think. | |
| And the subsidiary question is, how much of what we have seen and have had reported in our skies is perhaps extraterrestrial, extra-dimensional? | |
| And how much of it is stuff that we've back-engineered, worked back from stuff that we've retrieved and taken away? | |
| It's a great question. | |
| My speculation is it's 10% ours, 90% others. | |
| Doesn't it amaze you that if this has been happening for all this time, you know, in your country where, and my country where we like to think that we're free and information eventually gets out, it may take time, but it does eventually, you know, get out. | |
| Aren't you surprised that the lid has been kept on this and that the people who would have been involved in these retrieval and recovery programs are not speaking, have not spoken? | |
| The criteria for probably being involved in this is that you will have to take a psychological profile test. | |
| You have to live underground. | |
| You probably have to be on 24-hour video. | |
| You'll have to have all sorts of security clearances. | |
| And oh, by the way, yeah, it's a five-year stint and you're agreeing to have your memory erased. | |
| I mean, that's the sort of level of compartmentalization that are you saying that people who've been involved in these things have had their recollection of what they've been involved in removed? | |
| Yeah, there's one case like that. | |
| Particularly a guy in Las Vegas who Worked on gravity control and propulsion systems for UFOs. | |
| He sort of one day went to his mailbox and couldn't remember where he went to work or how he went to work, and he was retired. | |
| And do you say that that is how the lid has been kept on a lot of things that we'd rather like to know about? | |
| Because that conflicts very much with the move towards disclosure now, doesn't it? | |
| Yeah, conflicts is a strong word, but I think that the standard tools of disinformation in the past, maybe there were some assassinations of Forrest Hall, of Secretary of Defense, that was maybe too talkative. | |
| But there's been a lot of disinformation and discrediting of the UFO community, and that's probably another methodology. | |
| And then we've had 3,500 pages of leaked majestic documents from seven different sources spanning 20 years, some of it really credible, some of it typeset, some of it just absolutely bulletproof, and it's made not a dent. | |
| Even Grush's testimony is good, but there's no scientific data which you can change the world with. | |
| Ryan S. Wood is here. | |
| We're talking about crash retrievals and the deepest kind of secrecy. | |
| He's got a book out about this, and the book is called Magic Eyes Only, Magic with a J, Earth's Encounters with Extraterrestrial Technology. | |
| One question that you suggested that I think is a great one we need to pose now, I think, Ryan, is when did the U.S. government first become aware of non-human intelligence? | |
| That's a fascinating question. | |
| Yeah, it is. | |
| I think the answer is the 1941, well, the documentation that I have suggests that the 1941 Cape Girardo UFO crash was when they recovered, you know, three alien clones and a crash saucer in Cape Girardeau, Missouri. | |
| And that was written up, I think, by FDR and sent to Vannevar Bush, who is a famous scientist. | |
| And the response from FDR was, you know, you guys need to go win the war first, and then we can deal with these ET and celestial gifts, so to speak. | |
| And then when Roswell happened in 47, or maybe some other crashes in 46, things really got going. | |
| They set up this top secret research and development organization and started to work hard at reverse engineering. | |
| And, you know, what are the materials? | |
| What can we really learn? | |
| How can we analyze the biology of the ETs and so forth? | |
| You got to remember this is before DNA. | |
| So you're sort of at the cusp of bacteriology and virology. | |
| And they didn't have the modern tools that we have today to sort of quickly determine interesting facts. | |
| So that's when I think it really started for the U.S. government in a big way. | |
| How many do you think over the years of ballpark figure ETs do you think that the U.S. has got custody of? | |
| And did any of them live? | |
| Well, that's some degree of speculation and excitement for lots of people. | |
| The first thing I'd say is that, you know, I've documented 104 cases in the book, Magic Eyes Only, but I have another five or so on my desk, and I'm overselecting for English-speaking countries. | |
| I mean, I don't have good data in Russia or Africa or China. | |
| And they seem to be an equal opportunity, you know, around the world, although wherever there's atomic activity, it tends to be more presence. | |
| So I suspect the answer is somewhere between 200 and 250 total crashes to date, of which I suspect the U.S. has either gained access to or just outright purchased. | |
| If you were a little country and you had a real crashed craft, you'd just call up the State Department and say, here's the video. | |
| Wire me a billion dollars and I'll give it to you. | |
| So I think it's probably scores of ET bodies. | |
| And would you say, would you give an intelligent guess, an informed guess, I think is the way I need to put that. | |
| Would you give an informed guess that at places like Wright Pat, they have got those creatures on ice and they know they're there? | |
| Yeah, or Area 51, I think that's true, that they have them, or other places in Utah, or I would think they would spread them around. | |
| You have to, if you want to, if you just keep them on ice, that's one thing. | |
| But if you want scientists to figure out what to do with them, you got to have the scientists around. | |
| So you can't just put them in the middle of Alaska or something. | |
| And how does that tie in with all of the famous cases we were talking on this show again about the Pascagoula incident and Charlie Hickson and Calvin Parker last week? | |
| You know, there's the issue here of what we do with anything that we might retrieve in terms of ETs, but there's also the other conflicting issue of what they are doing with us, allegedly. | |
| You know, there are two sides to this story, aren't they? | |
| That's a good observation, Howard, is that, you know, why are they here? | |
| What is their agenda? | |
| What do they want from us? | |
| And there seems to be multiple civilizations with multiple Agendas, but the basics are: I mean, they're abducting humans and taking sperm and eggs and scoop marks. | |
| And so there's clearly a genetic analysis component. | |
| There's also, well, let's come and inhabit here, you know, live underground. | |
| We need to place a base to explore the galaxy or multiple galaxies. | |
| There's the anthropological approach of, well, these guys exploded an atomic bomb and we're monitoring emerging civilizations that do this and we're in a precarious time. | |
| And so we ought to go check out how they do this. | |
| I mean, just, you know, an intellectual exercise, or they could just not give a damn, you know? | |
| And there is a lot of different reasons that they're here or what they're after. | |
| And water may be a big thing, too. | |
| We can only speculate, can't we? | |
| I've got a text in here from Vic in Preston, regular listener. | |
| Just basically, I think the gist of the text is that we're not going to get to hear much about these things because not really in the interests of the people who've got this technology. | |
| Really, they're going to be motivated by keeping it from us. | |
| So this whole disclosure thing that is happening in Washington and in other places right now, if you follow that line of reasoning, it may well be a sham. | |
| What do you think? | |
| Well, I applaud the efforts of all the people to try to pry the evidence and the results out of the archives in Kew or the National Archives or out of witnesses and whistleblowers and out of investigations because the public deserves the right to know. | |
| It's our taxpayer money that's being spent on this. | |
| And so I salute those people. | |
| Will they be successful in getting complete disclosure? | |
| No. | |
| Will they get dribs and drabs and maybe accelerate the path of disclosure a little bit? | |
| Yes. | |
| I suspect that the ETs aren't going to show up and be part of our planetary's perspective. | |
| I would give it maybe 2060, a long time. | |
| No, I don't think I'm going to be here then, you know, unless I find the elixir of longevity. | |
| Are these things still happening then? | |
| Are craft, if we assume there are craft, still crashing? | |
| And are the fruits of those crashes still being spirited away? | |
| I think so. | |
| I mean, you wouldn't stop. | |
| If they stop crashing, then we'll stop recovering them, I suppose. | |
| But I'm sure it's an active program all the time, and they get better and better at cleaning things up, making it less known, more obscure, having better quality personnel that are more resilient to the deathbed confession or better psychological screening of staff or employees that are working on | |
| these programs. | |
| So I guess that's my perspective. | |
| Okay. | |
| You said that you've got 104 cases in the book and you've got some more ready to go. | |
| Where do you take this research then? | |
| What do you do next? | |
| Now that you've put all of this out there for people to read, and I recommend they do, what happens now for you? | |
| Well, that's a great question. | |
| I think that fundamentally, I've always, I mean, ufology is sort of a hobby or, you know, it's not my day job. | |
| My day job is working on fusion and aneneutronic radiation-free fusion in trying to unlock free energy and lower the cost of electricity for all of humanity. | |
| And so gravity control would accomplish the same thing. | |
| So it's trying to uplift everybody to be a fairer, more democratic, more thoughtful, less, shall I say, ugly world. | |
| And so for me personally, that's sort of where I'm going. | |
| I mean, I know they've crashed. | |
| I know the people who have been abducted. | |
| There's lots of people that specialize in that. | |
| So now what? | |
| So what? | |
| And ultimately, I may do another little book called UFO's Who Knows question Mark. | |
| Yeah, quotes of famous people. | |
| And I got lots of famous people that have made quotes from Churchill to generals to celebrities to everybody and get more people involved or caring or wanting to know, which may bring out more evidence. | |
| Well, that's the difficulty at the moment, isn't it? | |
| With this move towards disclosure and various committees chewing these things over, and there's a Canadian committee that will be reporting, I think, in the fall of this year, all of this stuff that's happening. | |
| The problem is that there's, or has been, a public appetite for it. | |
| People who wouldn't have been interested in this stuff have been reading about it. | |
| They've been hearing about it on mainstream news, not just, you know, shows like this one. | |
| You know, we do our bit here. | |
| But it bled over into the so-called mainstream. | |
| Now, whether they handled it well or whether they did it in a ham-fisted way, I'm not here to say. | |
| I don't know. | |
| But there was an appetite for it. | |
| Problem is, if we don't start to get more information, that degree of peaked interest on behalf of people who wouldn't ordinarily be interested in these things because they've got lives to lead, that's going to fade away, isn't it? | |
| So this process needs to take us somewhere, but I'm not sure how we manage to get that to happen. | |
| Well, fundamentally, ufology is broke. | |
| I mean, there's maybe a few million dollars spent on everything, you know, the conferences, the people, the investigations, Mufon, APRO, I mean, all everybody. | |
| And it needs tens of millions or hundreds of millions of dollars to dig more evidence up. | |
| Now, you could do a science experiment like Linda Moulton Howe's bismuth and magnesium parts that came from Roswell, layered at 15 angstroms back and forth. | |
| Well, let's go make that in the lab and write papers about it in a public way, not a classified way. | |
| What's that good for? | |
| There's science to be done. | |
| It's just without some research and development money or some sort of motivation. | |
| I think gravity could be cracked if you applied money to it. | |
| And there are plenty of people who are working on exactly that. | |
| All right. | |
| Just at the end of this then, Ryan, if something was to say, looking out of my window tonight in the suburbs, if something was to come down in the park not far from where I reside, and it was not of this earth, we assume such things exist, what do you think would happen? | |
| Well, I think the fire brigade would probably be called right away in the suburb area. | |
| Show the motion. | |
| Yeah, they would. | |
| And they would coordinate off and they would do the best they can. | |
| The police and the feds, everybody would show up. | |
| The citizens would be taking videos and doing the best that they can. | |
| The military would eventually show up and say, this is one of our crashed military secrets vehicles and we're going to go take it away and we're going to confiscate all your phones. | |
| And by the way, the rules in the UK are worse than they are in the US. | |
| Oh, no, we've got some fairly draconian regulations here. | |
| But you think that even today in 2024, that if something like that happened, perhaps it's only a matter of time before it does, a lid could still be kept on it? | |
| I think so. | |
| You know, in that scenario you just described, everybody would have their pictures. | |
| And if they didn't have pictures of alien bodies, I think that the military could say, hey, this is one of our spacecraft. | |
| And I'm sorry, we lost it. | |
| Very interesting material from Ryan S. Wood. | |
| And before that, the case of MH370, Florence Deshangy, and Brian Wilson. | |
| My grateful thanks to all of them for appearing on this show and for making it all possible. | |
| Now, as I said, there may be a small break in the schedule of The Unexplained. | |
| And what I might do is take just a short break from it to give me time for guest booking and, you know, just to take a bit of a breath and deal with all the things that are somewhat off the rails in life at the moment. | |
| I might take a break at around about edition 799 and then return with edition 800, which at the moment I think might well be because you asked for it about my life and times. | |
| And I certainly have done a lot of things. | |
| I didn't make any money out of it. | |
| But, you know, if wealth is determined in wealth of experience, then yes, I'm wealthy. | |
| If it's determined in how much money that you've got in the bank, then I'm definitely poor. | |
| I'd rather have the experience, I think. | |
| What about you? | |
| Anyway, let's hope I say that when I get in many years from now to retirement age. | |
| More great guests in the pipeline here at the Home of the Unexplained, so until we meet again. | |
| Thank you for being part of this, and please stay safe, please stay calm, and please stay in touch. | |
| Thank you very much. | |
| Take care. |