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Feb. 23, 2023 - The Unexplained - Howard Hughes
59:52
Edition 705 - Truth Proof Update Part 2
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Across the UK, across continental North America and around the world, on the internet, by webcast and by podcast.
My name is Still Howard Hughes and this is The Unexplained.
And we don't do this very often, but part two of the conversation with Paul Sinclair, internationally famous for his four truth proof books now.
And we've got a lot to talk about, some more cases from Paul himself, plus a bunch of questions.
And I'll also check in on my emails just to see if any more have arrived in while we've been doing this.
But Paul, if you're still there, this is something that we don't do very often.
But I think it's worth it here.
And it's always nice to speak with you.
Well, it's a pleasure, Howard.
It's easy.
Speaking with you is easy.
I do enjoy it.
Well, hopefully, you know, for our listeners' benefit, it's a conversation more than anything else.
And we're not here to deliver definitive, packaged answers.
And in fact, I would say to my listener that anybody who offers you answers, unless they're 100% scientifically checked out and peer-reviewed and all the rest of it, ask yourself if they really got the answers.
You know, we're about posing questions, I think, more than anything else here.
And maybe one day we'll be offered the answers.
But for right now, there are a lot of questions we've got to stack up.
All right, let's talk about then, this is one more of your cases, the Burlington Gap UFO, 9th October 2015, eight years, well, seven and a half years ago.
Yeah, once again, the guy's called Jason Hughes, and he's given me permission to use his name.
Jason's life's been changed, basically, Howard, since having probably nothing more than a two to three minute encounter with something in October 2015.
And I've met him several times at conferences.
I think, like everyone else, when you've had some kind of experience, the people that are listening to Howard Hughes, the Unexplained, they're looking for answers.
No difference at conferences.
And there'll be people sat within those conference halls and listening to those lecturers who've probably got stories.
I've said this before, that are far more interesting than anything I've got to say or any speaker out there.
And you know, Jason's two to three minute encounter is incredible.
And he did tell me, he kind of reached out to me the first time.
And then the second time, he said, you know, I've really got something I'd like to share with you.
And, you know, it's not the longest case in the world, but it's interesting.
So he found himself, and I'm not familiar with the area that, I mean, we're talking about close to Beachy Head, driving, he planned to go out for an evening drive towards Beachy Head, ultimately driving on from there towards Burlington Gap.
Okay, this is Burling Gap, isn't it?
Ah, apologies.
Yeah, this is Burlington Gap.
Because I know that area pretty well.
I lived in the south for a while.
I wondered.
I thought, I've never heard of Burlington Gap.
Do you want to start again?
No, no, not at all.
No, no, no.
Because a lot of people in a lot of different places will think that it's Burlington Gap.
But it's Burling Gap, and this is a great area of Sussex.
I'm sorry.
You've probably put Bridlington.
You know, I'm from Bridlington and I've put Burlington.
So, yeah.
You know, I'm from Liverpool, and we get the old thing about when I see K-I-R-K-B-Y, I say Kirby.
But if you live in, you know, if you live towards the East Midlands, you see K-I-R-K-B-Y, you say Kirkby.
So, you know, we're all different in our different places.
But Burling Gap, fascinating, fascinating place.
And we're talking about, as you say, it's near Beachy Head.
It's down not too far from the white cliffs of Dover, not a million miles from Eastbourne, not far from Brighton.
This is the area where we're talking.
Sorry, Paul.
No, it's fine.
And I'm glad that you've corrected me on that because I'd have gone through entire five minutes saying it wrong.
So he decided to go for an evening drive.
It was about 8.30 in the evening, and he's driving towards Beachyhead.
And he said from there he would have drived on towards Burling Gap.
I've got it right this time, people.
So you'll know these locations then, Howard.
He says, I'm driving towards a little village called East Dean.
I turned a sharp corner.
This is what he's telling me.
And I've spoken at length to him, heading towards the village.
And as he comes out, he noticed a bright light.
As he's come out of the corner, there's a bright light sat in the field.
His first thoughts, we all think logical, don't we?
He's thinking a bit of farming machinery.
You know, because we know that a lot of people sort of work during the night and the evening hours anyway, which you're working on a farm.
But he quickly rolled that out and realized that it was a sphere about eight to ten foot wide.
And suddenly, he's aware that this sphere has lifted into the air.
And he thinks it's 40 to 50 feet in the air.
And he's driving along this straight bit of road and it's parallel in his car.
And it's shining a beam into his car.
Now, it's bright orange, an orange-red colour.
He said, the inside of my car, my hands, the entire dashboard, everything in my side, my car looked a red to orange colour.
He says, and I've got my hand at the side of my face, driver's side, obviously shielding my eyes because it's so bright, this orange light.
He says, and he's colouring the contours of the road.
And this light, it's almost as though it's fixed in the center of his window.
Meaning, you know, if he went into a dip, it's not altering.
It's just got this fixed position.
And he's absolutely terrified.
And he thinks it's about 100 feet away and getting closer as it's paralleling him.
Now, he told me the location.
I think there's a sheep place there that's now closed.
I can't remember the name of it now, but he comes down into this area where there's a bit of tree cover and pulls in.
Expecting to get a better vantage point, a better view of this light, whatever it's going to do, but he doesn't.
The light's gone.
Turns around after recovering his senses kind of thing and wondering what's just hit him because he would absolutely terrify as this light's paralleling him.
There's nothing there.
It's as though he's just imagined the whole episode.
And he's absolutely sure that it's not a maritime light or a light from a lighthouse, something like that?
He's absolutely certain.
He said it was in the field, actually stationary in the field as he came round the corner originally.
We have to say that for those who think that the south and southeast of England is entirely populated and built on, that's not true.
If you go down towards Beachy Head, and I know this area pretty well, I used to go there a lot, and in fact, I must go back there to have a look.
It's really lovely.
But there are lonely areas, lonely areas of fields, and as you say, trees.
I'm picturing this exactly.
So it is possible for something to happen and there not be very many people experiencing it.
Well, he said he was the only car on the road.
He said when he pulled into the car park, there was no one else in.
Absolutely devoid of anybody.
He phoned his wife and his daughter and explained what had just happened.
And they said to him afterwards when he got home, when they were listening to him on phone, it didn't even sound like him.
I'm not trying to say it weren't him.
It was him, obviously.
But he was that shook up by what he'd just seen.
So yeah, this thing was stationary in the field.
He's pretty sure that it was actually landed and he saw it lift into the air.
I mean, my first thoughts was a helicopter, you know, with the dragon light on, firing it into his window.
But it was bright orange and it lit all his hands up.
And you would think, and inside of the car, and you would think from 100 feet away and closing, you would have heard this thing, no matter how far up your windows were shut, you know, you would have heard a helicopter.
But what's interesting, after the sighting, because he's perfectly good health, he believes it's affected his health.
He started suffering from tinnitus, headaches, he's now got joint problems.
He informs me that he's got arthritis just about everywhere in his body.
His eyes, he's had cataracts removed from his eyes and cysts removed, I think he said a few weeks ago, from, I think he said his right eye.
And the surgeon who's performing these operations said it's such an unusual thing to be removing the cysts from a man of his age.
I mean, he's not that old.
You know, I would estimate, I haven't asked him his age, but I think we're talking between 40 and 50.
Okay, well, that's young to have all of those things.
Yeah, and so he believes it's had an adverse effect on his health.
So I'm meeting him on Thursday.
He's driving up, and I'm going to meet him on Thursday, and he's already done a DVD.
That's how much it's gripped him this sighting.
He's made a little film of the entire journey of that night and explained it in daylight what was happening, which is fascinating.
And he's driving to Hull this week, and I'm going to meet up with him on Thursday to gather a little bit of a drink.
We know how it goes with you.
I will do, yeah.
You know, you don't have to do this, and he doesn't have to do this, but if he ever wants to come on that, you know, show that I've got, the broadcast one, for, you know, 15 minutes or so to talk about it, then that's great.
But this is your case and your guy.
No, no, do you know something, Howard?
I don't own these cases.
The people that come to me, I'm quite happy to share the information in a respectful manner and talk to witness in a good light.
You've talked to him and you obviously think that this is credible enough and there's enough information here for you to travel down to Hull and meet this guy.
Yeah, well, yeah, well, he's traveling a considerable distance, Howard, to meet me.
Well, I can tell you, he's doing, I think that's about 250 miles, I think.
Yeah, yeah, so I think it's least I can do is meet up with the man and just gather a little bit more information.
And we're doing that Thursday afternoon.
Now, my listener is going to correct both of us, but I am not aware in that area of military installations.
I don't think there are.
I could be wrong about that.
Please tell me if I am.
I am aware of there's a lot of maritime activity because, you know, you're down towards the coast there.
Of course, it is very remote and next stop English Channel.
And then after that, the next stop, France.
So it's an interesting area.
What a story.
Keep me posted.
Oh, it certainly will.
You know, I'm hoping there's a lot more to come.
I know it's only a short account.
It's probably took me three to four minutes to go over that.
But you can imagine the situation if he was getting paced by some unknown other.
And it must have been a terrifying ordeal to be in your car.
And your car's filled with life.
Completely.
I'm aware of ghost stories from the Burling Gap area.
And by the way, for those of you who are wanting to look this place up, and I never knew, and I've known this place very well.
I'd forgotten that it's spelt B-I-R-L-I-N-G, Burling, not as in Burlington.
Now, you know, that's something that I'd forgotten, I'll tell you that.
But look, fascinating story, and we'll do more about this.
And good on you for getting that story.
Just goes to show that the people think, know that you are a person that they can approach.
That's a very important gift that you've got there, Paul.
Okay.
The Forge Valley Web, 2002-2003.
Where is Forge Valley?
I should.
The Forge Valley is exactly where most of the accounts from Wolflands have emanated.
And we're not exactly going to Wolflands again, people.
It was called The Forge Valley.
The Forge Valley, yeah.
The one I touched on earlier on Scolby Mills where one of our witnesses perceived this huge creature running towards him.
A few miles inland, you come to the Forge Valley.
And the entrance to the North Yorkshire Moors National Park, it's not got a sign up saying this is the entrance, but that's essentially where you are.
And you've got all these big forests that begin in the Forge Valley.
And you've got East Ayton, where I've also collected accounts.
But this is a real.
It's no less interesting than any other story.
It might not be as exciting as a cryptid sighting or the perceived spaceships at Warmcliffe Crags, but it's fascinating.
So this is 2002 Stroke 3.
That's as close as this chap can get for me, which is good enough.
It's got to be.
And he'd been visiting his mum and dad, who lived in Skolby.
So we're just talking about Scolby Mills then.
And you drive from Scolby Mills through towards Hackness, and I find the names fascinating people, so I'm sorry for being a bit long-winded, but Hackness in ancient times was called Hachanos, which means with the whiskers.
Quite why that is, I don't know, but I find it fascinating.
Sounds a bit Norse to me.
Yeah, well, there's a massive Norse influence within this area.
You know, there's lots and lots of references and ancestral marks left by the Norse influence on the land.
So he passes Hackness and he goes towards the Everly Hotel and on towards the Forge Valley.
I'm painting a picture here, people, just in case anybody wants to Google these locations.
And more specifically, he was on the road towards Moorthorpe Road or Moorthorpe Low Road.
And he's driving towards Eastgate and where the three roads meet.
And he turns a corner.
And as he's turning the corner, there's nothing on these roads.
It's no streetlights or anything.
It's devoid.
He sees something that he can only liken to a giant spider's web.
And I just can't get my head around these crazy stories people tell me.
And I don't mean crazy that this guy's told me, just the diversity of them.
He said it fills the road.
It's from one side of the road to the other.
It's not suspended from anything.
And it's just off the road.
He said the strands are brilliant white and they're as thick as washing line.
And it just looks like a spider's web.
And he's driving towards it.
It's too late.
His headlights are on this thing and the car's on it.
And he drove right through it.
It hit the windscreen.
It didn't make a sound and it turned to what he described as smoke or mist because he's used both analogies.
And I spoke with him today.
And smoke or mist.
And when I say I spoke with him today, people, I really have.
I'm not just saying that for Howard's podcast.
I wanted to be sure because I needed to get that right.
And I didn't get the Burlington right, did I?
So what happened after that?
He said, suddenly the car was filled with a very, very sweet smell.
And for a few seconds, you were confused.
Stopped the car, found somewhere to turn around and drove back the other way.
Saw nothing.
Absolutely nothing.
So it's a story unlike any I've ever heard before.
And he likened the smell.
The closest thing he could put the smell to was candy floss.
So I don't know.
I mean, some listeners out there might have an explanation for this.
Somebody might have experienced similar.
If you have, please get in touch because I'd love to combine a few stories like this.
But it's fascinating, Howard, that once again, we're in the multi-phenomena zone.
We're in the area where the cryptids are sighted.
We're in the area going towards East Ayton, where I talked on a podcast for you, I don't know, last year about the old piece of writing that I found by the guy called Howard Brearley, who wrote about the phantom hounds of East Ayton, bipedal hounds that roam the forests and moors.
The same hounds, I would think, or the same phenomena that I'm talking about today.
And then we've got this strangeness added to it.
It's kind of, I don't know whether it confuses or enriches.
You know, I suppose it depends which side of that fence you want to sit on.
If you don't believe that anything that these people are saying is true, then it kind of confuses and muddies the waters.
But I prefer to think that we're in an area, a rich area, a paranormal soup where lots and lots of things are happening.
How interesting that it should happen there.
And I was only thinking that, I mean, we don't know, but if it was Star Trek or Doctor Who, you would think Webb Force Field, wouldn't you?
Well, I suppose so.
It might surprise people to hear this, but I've never watched Star Trek, to be honest with you.
So, yeah.
It reminds me of that quiz show.
I've never seen Star Wars.
Really?
Oh, you're in for a treat.
There is one of the digital channels here that is showing the original Shatna series remastered.
So really, the definition on it is fab.
And I don't have a super high-definition TV.
But if you want to, I don't know whether it would be an escape for you, but if you want to get a little bit of a test.
I'll give it a miss.
No disrespect.
People like it, but I only watch TV, to be honest, however.
Well, I have to say, and this is a totally different subject, but it is equally unexplained.
I find myself watching very little TV now because I just don't think there's anything much to watch.
I listen to a lot of international radio these days, to be honest.
I'm tired of all the politics, you know, which is bizarre for me to say because I'm on a station that does a lot of politics, but I just can't be doing with it.
But that's another story.
I don't watch TV and neither do you.
this is another place that I The Skinning Grove Hound back in 2004.
Yeah, another fascinating one because I've linked a few of these, not obviously to Wolflands, but they've got parallels because our last story in the film is about a sighting at Skinning Grove, which is high up the coast.
It's sort of the upper reaches of where we've gone with these stories of the werewolf, dogman, whatever you want to call them type things.
And I don't think I've spoken to you about this, but the guy's called Sam Shelley.
I don't know.
I can't remember the word.
Let's do the location here because I'm just Wikipedia it.
Skinning Grove, one word, is a village in Red Carr and Cleveland, North Yorkshire.
And this, again, is Norse.
Yes, yeah.
And there's lots of carvings in churches and museums and little centres of the gingerbread man, which is not a gingerbread man, it's an ancient carving, a Norse carving, and there's all sorts of, well, like I said before, relics of the past being left behind.
It's only just off the coast, isn't it?
Sorry.
Only just off the coast.
I mean, I haven't got no knowledge of this today, I didn't intend talking about it, but they actually claimed to have captured a man who walked from the sea who ate nothing but fish at Skinning Grove.
They said he was a merman.
Now, I don't know how that works because I didn't know that he could walk, but there's an old bit of folklore from Skinning Grove, and he walked back into the sea and swam into the distance, never been seen again.
How much truth there is to that, I've no idea, but that comes from Skinning Grove, and it's very close to Boldby, the potash mine.
And there's an underground facility there, a scientific facility deep within.
There are steel works there, according to this.
Yeah, they used to forge there as well.
There's a lot of open mines, but a lot of mines that have no longer worked that are in the area.
So there's the man who came from the sea.
What about the hound?
The hound?
Well, if we stay with Wolflands and Sam's sighting temporarily in this little wood, I think it's called Magpie Wood.
Our witness was playing a game, I suppose a bit like hide and seek.
I did say what it were called.
And he gets hunkered down in the wood and he's hiding and he hears a few twigs snap.
We'll skip through this one quickly and turns around, he said, and sat watching him in the stance like a huge silverback gorilla wood.
There's this monstrous creature.
And he said it turned its head like a curious dog onto one side.
And he can see it in the moonlight.
Gets up, sets off running to an abandoned railway hut where his friends were.
And they all come running out as he's running towards the hut because unusually they say there was something on the roof, which they believe to this day, he says, was him.
She says it wasn't.
So we've got this sighting.
And then a few months ago, I get another one.
And it's from around 2004.
And it's an old guy that lived in a bungalow on the edge of Magpie Woods.
Interesting.
Went for a walk.
He'd been walking for about 15 minutes.
And he caught sort of wind of a foul smell, an absolutely atrocious smell.
And walked a little bit longer.
And then about 10 yards behind him, he could hear movement.
Claims that he turned round and facing him is a huge dog.
Now, on all fours, I need to add, not bipedal.
So once again, people, it could have been a dog.
As big as a great dame with thick hair, sort of glowering eyes.
And the dog, which is a small village, never seen it before.
It's just there, silent.
Just went off into the woodland.
Now, are we talking about the same thing?
He claims that there's a common knowledge up there that there's some kind of creature being seen in these woods and around these woods for many, many years.
So I find it fascinating that we've got this story from Sam, and then this story comes out.
And very close to it, we've got the, I touched on it earlier, the Baldby, and I might have pronounced that wrong, people, potash mine, which is very close to Skinning Grove.
And security men there were warned to look, watch for poachers with high-powered lamps and other things.
But they were also warned, or this particular security guard who told me, says I don't know how much of it was tongue-in-cheek, because they'll have never heard it from me, not when they were working there years ago, that there's alleged to be a werewolf on the prowl at certain times around the Baldby potash mine and around Skinning Grove.
So you just find it fascinating that these snippets of information come out and whether they tie in with what we're looking into in Wolflands, I don't know.
It's a jigsaw, isn't it?
It is a jigsaw, Howard.
And, you know, so there's just a few accounts.
Wow.
Well, to be continued, as they used to say in the movies, 1988 is the year, as they used to say on radio, Bigfoot encounter at the place where they make the pottery, Hornsey.
Yeah, well, how bizarre.
I mean, we've got a small town of Hornsey.
I go there quite often myself.
On the road, and this involved a 17-year-old, well, late teens, 1988.
And after he'd been with his friends in Hornsey, because that's the bigger area, there's a little village called Seton, he would walk home to Seton.
And it's more of an experience than an actual sighting, but this is what he believes it was.
He said it was a three-mile walk, and we've got another three again.
He said sometimes he'd find himself walking back between 1 and 3 a.m. in the morning, which didn't bother him.
You know, probably thought of a fuller life and no could really affect him kind of thing.
And he's walking along this road.
He said he'd walk around the first.
Now, people, you're going to have to Google these things because I've wrote it down and I'm sure I'm right with this one.
It's called the Brottle Home Bend and was approaching the second right-hand bend.
And he's walking in the middle of the road.
He was keen to stress you could see cars coming from miles away.
This is in between the small town of Hornsey and the little village of Seton.
And there's nothing really in between.
It's just open land, a bit of woodland and what have you, but nothing else.
So that's why he's walking in the middle of the road.
Plus, it probably felt a bit safer than walking on the edge of the trees at 17-year-old, no matter how brave you think you are, at three in the morning, it gets a little bit edgy.
So he says trees were in full foliage, so we can sort of assume that we're late spring, early summer time, and it was moonlit.
Didn't say a full moon or anything, but it were moonlit.
It says as he approached the second bend in the road, he said he heard a noise of something large crashing through the undergrowth on the mere.
Now, people, Hornsey Mere is a huge lake.
It's full of waterfowl, Canada geese, swans, ducks, all manner of sorts of waterfowl that are there.
It's a local beauty spot.
It's quite big.
And it could hear something, as he said, a large crashing through the undergrowth of the mere.
He said, and it was on the left-hand side.
He says, so he started walking on the right-hand side, obviously away from the noise.
He unnerved him, as you would, Howard.
So as he approaches, in his words, the apex of the bend, he says, where there were two large boughs of a beech tree hanging low over the verge on the left-hand side of the road.
And he said, next thing he knows, he said, something, he says, I can only assume it's something has grabbed hold of one of the very large boughs of the breech tree.
Because there's no wind.
And it's shaking the tree violently back and forth.
He couldn't see anything.
All he could see were all the leaves vibrating and the branch moving from side to side.
Next thing, and he's already frightened, if that ain't frightening enough, he says he heard screaming and he says it's screaming like nothing he'd ever heard before.
Almost human and whooping sounds like primates would do.
It's really, really loud.
I mean, I suppose we can't ever rule out the fact that somebody's playing a prank on him to frighten him.
I mean, we're never going to know from 1988, but it's between one and three in the morning on a lonely road, and who's going to be sat there waiting for that?
I was going to say, that would take a bit of organising.
It would.
It really would.
And, you know, best willing world, you've no idea whether that teenager is going to come home at 11 or 3 in the morning.
And it's been a long wait, wouldn't it?
Just on chance that I'm going to check a tree branch.
So, you know, so it's an unusual one.
He said, suddenly he took the decision to run.
And then it's not funny, but he said, I realized something was banging on his backside.
He doesn't say backside as he's running.
And he's in such a fright.
He doesn't know what it is at first.
Then he realizes it's his heels of his Doc Martins.
He's running that fast.
He's banging his backside.
And he didn't stop.
His exact words were, I didn't stop running until I got past Shirley's garage.
So these places will still be there, I would think.
You know, or there'll be a garage there, even if names changed.
He says the next day, he told people about it and they laughed at him.
He says, his main words were, I'll never forget the noise it made.
You know, the noise it made were truly terrifying.
But what's interesting, it kind of correlates with the Skolby Mills story, which I touched on earlier, one of our Wolflands witnesses, because he had an experience more than an actual sighting.
And he was sat up there stargazing, not looking for UFOs, he was looking for the Aurora Borealis, the northern lights.
And he first became aware of something heavy, an heavy animal crashing about in the undergrowth 20, 30 yards away.
Then he became aware of what we talked about earlier, Howard, the lower silence, the descent into this strange, almost vacuum where everything's just been, the life's been sucked out of everything and there's just nothing happening.
No sound of the sea, no sound of the seagulls.
And then whatever it is, and he can't see it, he's running towards him and he can feel it in the air.
He can feel it impacting the ground.
And that experience ties in.
Here's me jumping in.
Sorry.
That experience ties in with Bigfoot accounts.
Yeah, I would agree.
That's what people feel sometimes.
Yeah, I would agree.
I mean, not everything that we've documented in Wolflands has to be wolf stroke, dog man stroke, werewolf related.
We could be looking at other types of, we'll call them cryptids, other types of creatures here.
I spoke to an American researcher last week.
Absolutely brilliant, Howard.
If you can get him on your show, please do.
Barton Nunnery.
Oh, I've heard that name.
If you've got a contact with him, I would love to.
Oh, so interesting.
I mean, you know, he's got his views and he sticks to his views.
But there's no doubt that, I mean, his true boots on the ground.
He walks these forests in America and he's the guy that the Spotsville monster.
Have you heard of that?
Well, it was his family that experienced it.
Oh, God.
Oh, I've got to talk to him.
Thank you.
Yeah, well, I will contact him after we've spoken today and see whether he'd be willing to speak to you, Howard.
Oh, we're very lucky because Josh Turner put a good word in for me and because he doesn't do many podcasts.
He prefers, what did he?
He did word it.
I can't.
It'll come to me later.
He prefers truth before fame or something like that.
Well, that's pretty refreshing to hear, isn't it?
Yeah, so that's the reason he doesn't do many podcasts.
So yes, so strange sighting.
Sorry, I would have gone.
No, no, no, you're saying.
No, I've just, we've covered the Hornsey one, and we've touched on Barton Nunnelist.
There is one other.
We never have a conversation, doesn't seem to me, that doesn't involve old stinker somewhere.
And this is Balmston Drain.
Now, this is kind of...
And again, it's an area that I've been to, but I don't know very well.
I always see this area as being kind of where the north, as we used to call it when we were kids, because television companies called it the north, where the north meets the fens.
Is that right?
It's similar.
I mean, the landscape's probably...
It is, yeah.
We're talking, I mean, I'm looking at 35 miles away, 30 miles away.
So is it more Grimsby?
Yeah, well.
Yeah, if you went on, you would go towards Grimsby.
And it's just an area of lowland, and it's a man-made drain.
People talk about the Barnston Drain.
It's the low-lying parts of Hull.
It were to stop them flooding, I think, in the late 1800s, early 1900s.
I don't know the exact date, that it were dug out and it flows out onto the beach, the low-lying water.
At Barnston.
Because this is low-lying land and they have to do those things.
And this place has got a history of some kind of werewolf creature.
It has a werewolf.
It has its werewolf story attached to it.
And unusually, this is not a werewolf story.
But you're right.
I mean, it made the newspapers several years ago, people claiming to have seen what they called the Beast of Balmston Drain.
And I think some couple claimed they'd seen it with a large dog in its mouth running.
And this is not just one report.
This is, you know, some people say it's apocryphal.
Some people say it's just folklore.
And, you know, there are multiple reports down the years.
But this thing that we're talking about is 1970.
And this is a UFO connected with this.
Yeah, it's a fabulous sighting.
And another one, a bit like the, I'm going to say Burlington again, but another one like that.
And, oh, God, I'm going to get my selling Nazi people, aren't I?
So, 1970, yeah, and what's interesting, we think it's September 1970.
So, that makes it even more fascinating for me.
Why is that?
Because early September 1970, we've got the alleged UFO incident over the North Sea with REF Lightning.
You know, that allegedly was pursuing the UFO over the North Sea.
So, this, if we can get an exact date off this man, and I'm no doubt I'm going to get really close with it, he was a young man back in 1970, and he's walking along the Barmston Drain with a group of friends.
His exact words were that they just had an altercation with some other boys, some other teenage boys from Hull along the drain.
And so they'd ended up in an area where they wouldn't normally because they chased these boys.
It's evening, it's not completely dark, it's a summer's evening, and they're walking along this drain.
And in places, it'll be 20 feet wide, in others it'll be four or five feet wide, in places it'll be two feet deep, and in other places, it'll be six to seven feet deep.
And if it's raining, obviously, and if we've had a lot of water, it's even deeper, and obviously, that width alters.
But they're in this part of the drain, and they suddenly see a light in the sky, a flash of light in the sky, and it comes hurtling down, this light that looks a blue-white colour, and enters the water at the side of them.
Massive splash, and it's in, it's gone.
And they can't see it.
They're amazed.
They're looking and they can't see this.
We'll say it's 20-foot-wide stretch of water, and there's nothing there.
And it's gone in, and I think he said it was about eight to ten foot wide, whatever it was, or that's what he assumes it was, this object, this oval-shaped object.
And they're looking, and then suddenly they become aware of a man on the other side of the bank.
Now, these are young teenage boys who've no knowledge of anything we're talking about, I wouldn't suppose, apart from what they've watched on TV.
But he said this man's got what looks like a tight-fitting suit on and goggles and a helmet, like a leather-type helmet, but black goggles.
He's ignoring them completely.
And he's got in front of him a box that he's holding in both hands.
He said, and there's lights flashing all around this box, and up and down it.
He says, And we're just, we can't believe what we're looking at.
Suddenly, we've seen this thing descend into water.
Can't see that anymore.
And now there's a man stood on the other side of the bank.
And he's moving it side to side, up and down, aiming it at the floor.
And he's just doing these things.
Then momentarily, their attention is taken away from him because they realize that something's lit up in the water.
And they can see a faint orange glow, yellow to orange glow, that gets brighter and brighter.
And suddenly, it looks almost red.
And it just bursts out of the water and up into the air and it's gone.
They look across to the bank, and obviously, I think people know what I'm going to say.
There's no man there either.
Now, the guy who's told me this, he says that the local papers did report an object being seen along the drain.
He says, but although that was reported from us, he says he's got these newspaper reports in his loft and he's been, well, either he's been or he's going to have a look for them for me.
And did those reports include this being a creature, whatever it was?
Apparently there were a few reports of people seeing this at various locations and he says it's the same night, but nobody reported anything entering the drain, just seeing something strange along the drain, strange lights.
So quite what the newspaper report's going to say if we do actually get his hands on it, I don't know.
But it's corroboration.
But it's corroboration, and it's an actual date we're going to get, because I find it...
but it would be interesting if it was.
So, I mean, this has the makings of being another Hummumby, doesn't it?
It does, it does.
I personally think Humming is probably Yeah, but it's still very interesting, without a doubt, Howard.
Now, we've got...
We've got about 20 minutes or so.
So I've got, what, six questions or so?
Let's fire through them.
Philip in Japan says a while back, and I remember this very well, Paul said that he thought that he'd been shot at.
I wondered if anything like that had happened again or if he'd found anything further about that incident.
Can you tell me first of all what it was and if you know any more?
This was back in 2019, I believe.
Well, I know.
And a guy had been on the cliff tops and seen a red, we call it the Speaton figure of eight.
Once again, Speaton people.
He'd been up onto the cliff, police officer, actually.
I'm not going to say where he was from, but he'd got an interest and he'd been up onto the cliff several times.
We'll get to the shooting in a moment.
And on this particular night, he finds himself at Speaton, not in a place that's very far away from where the UFO that I have on film from Dave yesterday was filmed.
And he sees this red object that looks like a figure eight.
He said it just looked like it had a black band around its middle.
So he'd never been in daylight.
So I went up in daylight this particular day to get some photographs so he could get an idea of the layer of the land.
Because he went in disbelief what he'd seen.
And on the way back, there's just me and my little dog Wolfie.
And we're coming back.
It's a lovely sunny day, but we're going towards winter, I believe.
And I'm walking down towards what's called Hoddy Cows Lane.
These are the actual names, people, so you can Google them.
And I'd just come off the cliffs, and there's a right-hand when I say bend, it's only on foot.
So I turn right-hand and I'm heading towards the lane.
It goes in like a zigzag, and then you go in a straight run.
There's some farmers bailing at the top of Speat, and I can see the tractor and a fortlift truck.
Or I could, they're in a bit of a dip now.
And then suddenly, an eye-velocity bullet, that's all I can say it was, passed the front of my chest.
How do I know that?
Because my dad used to be in a rifle club and I'd been with him many, many times.
And I know what they sound like as they're traveling through air.
And I couldn't believe it.
Could it have been a hunter?
There's a good chance I did see deer while I were walking there.
And there's a good chance some stupid chap with a gun has took a pot shot in daylight at a deer, and it's a stray bullet.
Can't rule that out.
That's awful if that's what happened.
Yeah, well, I instantly dropped to my knees.
So I'm retelling the story, really, because I didn't get a satisfactory answer to what or why and began to sort of crawl along because I knew that if it were just a loose bullet, there could be another one coming.
I saw it the banking.
I'll turn straight round.
I thought, oh, we're going to go back to retrieve it or look for it.
And I did go back, but there's a sheep fence behind it that's all overgrown with blackberries and everything.
And I just couldn't get in.
Right, so for all we know, there could be the remains of a bullet there.
It'll still be there.
And I rang the police when I travelled about, I don't know, 20, 30 yards.
I'm stood there.
999 people.
If anybody don't believe me, I know it's a bit of a long-winded thing, but you feel free to check it because I did.
I rang the police, told them what had happened.
And the response from the police officer I spoke to were, am I safe now?
And I said, well, I don't really know.
I said, I'm telling you what's happened.
I'm pretty sure it were a gunshot.
I said, hang up and ring 101.
Now, I swear on my kids' life, that's what I was told to do.
So that's how serious they thought it was.
Isn't that the number that you call just to kind of report?
Police non-emergency.
Yeah, report and register things.
So I did, like a fool, I did ring that and I've stood there like a duck, sitting duck, and I just thought, well, when am I doing this?
I own up and I went home and I rang from home.
And I bet you heard nothing else.
It took the police about six weeks to get back to me.
Oh, did they?
And I would have thought, even if I was lying, if I've said that somebody's just discharged a firearm and it's just passed me, they would have been there to look.
But it didn't pass.
I mean, you know, my dad was a copper and they would have been all over there.
Because if somebody's around there with a gun and loosing off shots, whether it's an alien extraterrestrial, whether it's a hunter who's doing something they shouldn't be doing, whatever it is, you need to be investigating.
Yeah, without a doubt.
And it happened.
So in answer to the question, I know I could have just said, well, I've not heard anything else.
But I do realise that other people wouldn't have known what happened.
Whether it was intended for me, I will never know.
Chances are, as I've said, I did see deer walking up towards the cliffs that somebody's took a loose shot.
In your darkest moments, and we don't want to build this up beyond what it is, but in your darkest moments, do you think that there might even be a slim possibility that maybe somebody tried to take you out?
Or frighten me.
Or scare you.
Scare you off.
Yeah, yeah, scare me off.
Yeah, there is.
I mean, I was up at Bempton.
What day are we today?
Tuesday.
I was up at Bempton Sunday night on my own.
And it's horrible.
It was black.
It was windy.
I've stood there with cameras.
I'm in the middle of nowhere.
And you could easily, let's not build this up either, but you could easily stay safe for God's sake.
But you could easily disappear.
You could easily disappear.
And I don't want to put ideas into people's heads.
We're on the edge of cliffs between 250 and 400 foot deep.
And we know that people have gone over there because the weather's iffy a lot of the time.
So you have to know what you're doing if you go to that place.
You do.
There's a fence around it, Howard.
There's a fence around it.
Nevertheless.
Let's just briefly touch on it for a moment.
And I don't want to stay on it.
But there's a fence there, a 42-inch three-bar wooden fence around the majority of it.
But let's just assume that I've gone missing, and the next day my cameras and all my equipment are other side of that fence.
Because you don't just climb the fence and drop over the cliffs, you know, in places that are six foot, 12 foot to the edge of the cliff.
People would just automatically assume I'd climbed over, got too close to the edge and fell.
I'd never climb over that fence, people, and I wouldn't advise anybody to ever do it.
No, absolutely not.
You know, you have to know what you're at and supervise yourself, really, when you're doing those things.
All right, I want to move on.
Ian, who worked at the BBC, and who I know, he worked at BBC Caversham, where I did very briefly.
He says, I think I heard Paul telling us on a podcast of yours that he'd done some radio frequency monitoring of the lights sometimes appearing on the Yorkshire coast.
We're talking Bempton here.
I appreciate Paul isn't technically trained, and we referred to this in part one of this.
He said that Paul Masters had helped him.
It will be interesting to learn what equipment he used and what the findings were.
Both Jacques Valley and Ross Coulthard in Australia described some UAPs having a pulsed microwave signature.
I wonder if anything like this has been detected by Paul that was confirmed as not coming from nearby military sites or their own equipment.
And I think you said when we spoke in the last part of this, in the first part, that you don't know, and I don't know, much about this.
And you need to do more of this.
Yeah, I haven't got a great knowledge of it.
And it's one of those things that I think if you started immersing yourself in it, you'd lose yourself with the accounts and the other things.
It's horses for courses.
But the idea of scanning a pulsed microwave signature.
Well, I really don't know.
Perhaps we ought to get Peter Masters on here at some time in conjunction with me.
Or you could speak to him maybe for 15 minutes.
Maybe, you know, he would find that interesting.
Because his friend in another part of the country, I think it's well over 200 miles away with a lot of technical equipment, has detected, but we don't, I suppose we don't know whereabouts on the line, but on the line to Bempton, the 1.6 gigahertz signal.
When we've took Peter's equipment up there with his laptop and everything else, we've detected a strange radio frequency.
That's as technical as I can be.
That shouldn't be there.
There's nothing on those cliff tops, and it seems omnidirectional as well.
Which people will know means wherever you point this thing, you've got this band going up the center of the screen.
And I'm sure what you say is omnidirectional.
You know, all radio signals have a start point.
They come from somewhere.
But if it seems to be all around you, that's more radiation than signal.
But Ian is probably shaking his head now because neither of us knows as much about this as we should.
And maybe, Ian, if you're happy with this, maybe Ian should make contact with you.
I would love him to.
I'm all ears and I'm willing to learn.
I know he took a microwave tester up there as well.
And we will be texting.
Ian's a retired BBC guy, so he knows about this.
Yeah, I'm there to be educated.
Seriously.
You know, Ian discovered my show.
Somehow I was aware of him, but he discovered my show and he's been in communication with me over a number of years.
Stuart, this came in via the Facebook page.
And just a quick answer would probably do this one, Paul.
Are there any RAF bases near Paul with a reputation for strange sightings?
We know the answer to that is yes.
Yeah, we've got obviously strange sightings that we've had around the former area at Bempton.
Got lots of strange sightings of unexplained lights, 11 miles inland at Staxton Wold.
And obviously Filingdale is probably 30 miles up the coast on the edge of the North Yorkshire Moors.
We've got sightings.
So yeah, short answer.
And that ex-RAF site, Bempton, is a gift that keeps on giving.
It's a very spooky place.
Now, Claire in Yorkshire says, I remember Paul briefly mentioning in an interview that he was once accompanied by a medium and her son on one of his nighttime visits to the Bempton Cliff area.
The medium's son in particular, says Claire, had what sounded like horrendous visions and vowed never to set foot in that area again.
So my question, says Claire, for Paul, is this.
Could he expand a little on that evening and would he even consider taking a different medium up there if he could find somebody who would do it?
I would.
I mean, I'm not that familiar with the work of mediums, but Janet, who happened to be, I mean, she practices all over the place.
She goes and talks in many places, all around eastern North Yorkshire.
So she's well-versed in mediumship, should we say.
I asked her if she would come up, and I were lucky because she was a neighbour.
She lived about four doors away.
And she came up this particular night with a son and a good friend of ours, Andy Ramsden.
And it wasn't dark, it was early evening.
And we got up behind the old REF base.
We went into Dane's Dyke first, and she was doing some work with crystals and things.
Not things I've worked with, but I'm open to all things.
And I wanted to see what was happening.
So we're on the base, we're not on the base, we're outside the sort of perimeter of the base.
And there's a building there on the cliff tops with some big open doors.
I would have said about eight foot by six foot six, big opening.
Never been any doors on them probably in over 20 years, just black looking into it.
And I'm not looking at this.
I'm sort of just observing Carl and her son will be in his 30s.
He's acting peculiar.
And suddenly, Janet and Andy Ramsden suddenly go, wow, did you see that?
Did you see it?
And apparently they'd both seen a strip of light light up in the doorway.
There's no power in these places.
There's only cattle going to them, you know, when the cattle are actually on the fields.
There's nothing.
They've been defunct since 1968.
Not lightning, maybe?
Well, it's a bright, clear night.
It appeared in the doorway.
So your guess is as good as mine, Howard.
I didn't see it.
Not very likely.
Not very likely.
But so, what happened next is that I noticed Carl's climbing the fence.
So we've gone from a 42-inch three-bar wooden fence, and as you get up near the base, it becomes a three-stranded wire fence to the edge of the cliffs.
He's climbing the fence.
And I don't think he's got any history of doing anything silly like this before.
And I ran up to him and grabbed him and pulled him back.
And this was all during the excitement of this white light that appeared, or they say has appeared in the doorway.
So that was that.
They decided they'd had enough and they wanted to go.
Carl just, he wanted to leave.
I was driving, so we all went in my car.
I dropped Andy off.
He drove home and the medium and her son, they went to their home.
Short time later, there's a knock on the door.
I go to the door and it's Janet.
And she said, you know, thank you for taking us up there.
She said, but he'll never come up again.
I'm deliberately not saying his name.
So he'll never come up again.
She said, and I said, why?
She said, well, he told me when he got home, he could hear distressed voices in his head.
He's not a medium, by the way, people.
He just got his mummies and he could hear screaming and people crying and all sorts of disturbing things.
And he kind of wanted to jump over the cliff.
Good lord.
I mean, that is utterly horrendous, as Claire said.
Thank you for the question, Claire.
The point of the matter is, I'm not sure what further research you could do on that.
There's not a lot.
Inadvertently, a lady came up, Jane came up to see us, Jane Bowery and her partner, and another guy called Ian, I think, Mark Rhodes, about November time of last year.
And I didn't realise Mark Rhodes were Jane's brother.
And so we're up there, Bob's with us, Bob Brown, in the darkness, we're talking.
And she said to her brother, do you feel anything?
Do you know, is anything coming through?
So I'm observing this.
And I said, what are you talking about here?
And she says, well, he can get messages.
He always has been able to and all this kind of thing.
And he went, he put his hand on the fence.
He says, He says, Usually, I get good messages.
I get good things.
He says, But I feel like I want to jump.
He says, I don't know why.
He said, I feel like something's urging me to jump.
And oh, Christ, well, God, I mean, this to me, I mean, beyond UFOs or strange lights or weird creatures, this to me almost sounds like bad.
Bad energy, bad energy, bad spirits.
Yeah, and I don't want to, you know, influence people or trying to put taint to the area because it gets teeming with enthusiasts who look at the seabirds throughout the summertime, but we're going up at silly o'clock in the dark.
But what we're saying is that there's, and that's all we can say, is that there is seemingly something dark.
There's something dark and sinister there, and he then said that somebody stood at the side of us now.
Now, I'm not advocating that all this is the truth, people.
I'm just reporting what I was told.
And these are different kinds of, pardon the pun, mediums that have gone up there.
And I don't mean it in a medium sense of the word.
You know, we've got the UFO guys go up there, the cryptid guys.
This is just another medium, as in a spiritual medium, I know.
And he said there's a man stood at the side of us.
He says he's very old.
He's dressed in really unusual clothing.
He said, a bit like somebody from Lord of the Rings, really.
He said, and he's got a piece of wood in his hand, and he's got a blade, and he's whittling the middle out of it, making an oval shape.
This to me sounds like the kind of people who may have inhabited that site hundreds upon hundreds upon hundreds of years ago.
Well, I said, can you ask him what he's doing?
First of all, I said, is it a yoke?
Exactly, to start a fire.
That's what came into my head.
And he went.
He said, well, I said, ask him what he's doing.
And he said, he's just shown me this.
And he's telling me it's to put over people's shoulders, to hold their arms over.
Exactly.
A yoke as in agricultural uses.
Whether, no disrespect to mediums.
I mean, what I talk about seeing and what I try to film is hard enough to prove.
So I think the mediumship is even harder.
But no disrespect to people who...
And some of those people will tell you that they go to a site and it's like turning on 25 television sets all at once with a different channel on each of them.
They're bombarded by stuff coming at them all the time.
If they go into a supermarket, they've got people standing in front of them.
They'll be picking up things and images from them.
So let's not knock this.
There might be something very much in this.
No, I'm not saying that you are, but anybody who might be inclined to just have a think about what this site is, what it's delivering for messages.
We're clearly getting messages from somewhere.
Isn't that fascinating, Paul?
And thank you, Claire, for the question.
Gee, whiz.
Okay, as we come to the end of an hour.
Hey, we've done another hour, Paul.
Richard in Southampton, just a quickie this one, I think.
Are there any locations where you live, or maybe further afield, what we talked about, Berlin Gap, didn't we?
That you think might be too scary or dangerous for you to go to on your own?
I suppose there's lots of locations.
Yeah, I mean, I don't think, you know, knowing what I've been told in the forest of Broxa, I don't think I'd sleep there on my own.
I think it'd have been a terrifying experience.
Even if nothing happened, because you're aware of what's happened, you've seen the reaction that these men have had.
Grown, big, strong, grown men reduced to tears by what they've seen and experienced.
And that's not to say no way to belittle these people, because I think I would be the same.
You realise that I think it'd be foolhardy to go there on your own because I think the potential is there for this to happen again.
And, you know, thinking in my life, there are forests.
I love Wales.
It's my ancestry along with Ireland and Scotland.
There are parts of mid-Wales that I would not want to venture into, certainly by myself, because there's vast areas of nothing.
And it's a bit spooky.
Richard, thank you for that question.
Lastly, and again, another quickie.
Christopher, and I think we've already sort of partly answered this, but there's only one Paul Sinclair and there are only so many minutes in the day.
Christopher wants to know, will you be taking your investigations to other parts of the country?
Well, you have to an extent, but I'm guessing the scope for that, if you had enough time in your life, is limitless.
The scope's limitless, but the shelf life of Paul Sinclair is not.
Sorry for saying it like that, you know, but 60 years old, still fairly active, and I know there's people in the 70s that are really active, but I see myself, and I could be talking completely wrong here, but doing this for another five or six years and then not switching off from it.
Obviously, the passion and the drive would still be there.
But I think the actual drive to get into these forests and spend nights in these uncomfortable, harsh environments will have probably started to get out of my reach.
Well, you'll be going in a different direction by then.
Life is all about different challenges and doing different things.
You can't do the same thing all the time.
Paul, question for me to end it all.
Will there be another truth proof book?
Without a doubt.
Yeah, without a doubt.
I've got a folder literally full of accounts, you know, word documents with obviously keywords so I know what I'm talking about.
And there's definitely going to be another truth proof book.
And it probably won't be this year because I plan on now Wolflands is finished, less the music.
I plan on doing some work with Chris Turner, the guy who made Elusive.
We also did Bringing Down the Light together.
So we've got some plans to do a few documentaries.
And I'll be doing another long-term documentary with Les Drake.
So because I can't just say to Les, we've done Wolflands now.
Thank you very much.
Goodbye, because I wouldn't do that.
And there will be more to talk about.
Lots more to talk about.
Thank you.
Well, it's been a pleasure.
Hope you get a chance to take a holiday.
So if people want to connect with you, if They want to take a look at your website.
Where do they go?
Truthproof.uk.
And the paperbacks are for sale through that website and on eBay.
And you can get the Kindle books, obviously, from Amazon.
And if you've got a report, send it to the website or email me direct, Paul Sinclairgmail.com.
And if it's something you want to share and you don't even want me to talk about it, please share it.
It just might throw a little bit of light on something that I'm looking into.
You know, I've touched on 1970.
I'm still looking forward to it.
And it might add to that jigsaw that we've talked about.
Hey, Paul, I'm delighted that it's all going so well for you.
You are an amazing man.
And as a comedian, come TV host, very famous man in this country.
And he also did some work in America called Bruce Forsyth, used to say, didn't he do well?
We'll talk again, Paul.
Thank you very much.
Don't go away.
I'm just going to say, as they say goodbye to the ladies and gentlemen, the listeners, thank you very much for being part of this show.
My eternal thanks to the great Paul Sinclair.
My name is Howard Hughes.
This has been The Unexplained Online, the second part of a two-parter with Paul Sinclair.
Hope you enjoyed this.
Until next, we meet here at The Unexplained.
Please stay safe.
Please stay calm.
And above all, you know, please stay in touch.
Thank you very much.
Take care.
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