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Feb. 23, 2023 - The Unexplained - Howard Hughes
01:02:31
Edition 704 - Truth Proof Update Part 1
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Across the UK, across continental North America, and around the world on the internet, by webcast and by podcast, my name is Howard Hughes, and this is The Unexplained.
Thank you very much for being part of my show for all of these years, nearly 17 of them.
Thank you for all of the communications that continue to roll in through my inbox at theunexplained.tv.
Thanks to Adam for all of his work getting the shows out to you and also honing and keeping running the website, theunexplained.tv.
If you've made a donation to these shows recently, thank you very much indeed.
I know that there are shows that ask you to pay money to have questions asked.
I've never done that.
And, you know, that's not in the plan unless I'm absolutely destitute and about to be evicted.
But that's not something that I'm going to do.
We've tried to keep it as it has been for a very long time.
And I know that you've appreciated that.
We've been through the COVID period and those awful lockdowns and a lot of things in our lives.
You know, I have.
You have.
And so I'm trying to keep it going, basically, but always reviewing it too, in the light of what you say.
Of course, I'm going to get emails and I do every week saying, why don't you do more of this or that or whatever.
And I've tried to do a show that interests me.
And I've got loads of interests.
My mind darts all over the place.
Maybe yours does too.
And that is why I do some science.
When the serious scientists will talk to this show, and I will do ghosts and I will do Bigfoot.
And if there is any new research that's worth talking about, we'll do that too.
So that's the way that we handle things.
And going into what will be the 18th year, that's the way for the moment that I will continue.
So there.
If you sent a donation to the Unexplained, thank you very much indeed.
And thank you very much for all of the support recently when we were discussing and debating the TV show.
I do not know whether long term the show will continue as a TV show.
That's not for me to know yet.
I don't know whether it continues as a radio show.
I don't know whether it continues as no show.
But as far as I'm able to do it, it'll continue as a podcast.
And those are the seas that I've been surfing lately here.
And, you know, your supportive messages, so, so many of them, mean a great deal to me.
Now, the guest on this edition of the show is going to be a real tonic for all of us, really.
Paul Sinclair in Yorkshire.
An update on his research.
And we will be finding out about that, including the documentary, of course, that's going to be out called Wolflands.
We'll find out what the final preparations for that are.
Up in the forests of the northeast of Yorkshire, way, way up.
Not quite as far as Scotland and not quite as far as Tyneside, but very nearly is where that is.
And it's still a place that I haven't visited, so I'm going to have to do that.
Okay, I've done enough talking.
If you think the show sounds slightly different today, it's because I'm using a microphone that they used to use at the BBC and many other broadcasters.
It's at AKG for those of you who are interested in equipment.
And it's the one that they used to use for people like Terry Wogan and Tony Blackburn and people like that.
And I've always loved the sound of this microphone.
And I just wanted to cheer myself up a bit by using it on this one.
But if you are aware of a man called the late Terry Wogan, he was a fantastic broadcaster, the most natural and gifted broadcaster that I'm aware of in America, the United Kingdom, anywhere that I've looked.
Terry was from Ireland, came to the United Kingdom, and we took him to our hearts.
And he had a way of delivery that I've always been completely enamored of.
So this is the microphone that he used to use when he'd say, Radio 2, from the old BBC, and words like that.
I just loved the man.
But that's another thing.
You may never have heard of him.
Look him up.
And if you want to listen to him on YouTube, you're going to hear some genius.
So that's explaining the sound of it this time.
It is the microphone they used to use on Radio 1 and 2 and Radio 4 back in the day and on BBC Local Radio when I used to work in it.
There may well still be some little outposts of the BBC like Radio Shetland using these microphones, but I think they just became too expensive to make and they just don't make them anymore.
Are the new ones better?
No, I don't think so, but you tell me.
That's complete sideline.
Let's get to Yorkshire now to my good friend Paul Sinclair.
Paul, thank you very much for coming back on the show.
Thank you very much, Howard.
As always, you know, it's a pleasure.
Great talking to Howard Hughes.
I think this is where it began.
Do you know, one of the first radio podcast stroke interviews that I did was with you.
I think it was the first.
I mean, I don't want to be claiming things that are not for me to claim, but I think it was probably the first.
But it's amazing how things can spiral for people.
You know, it's either going to work or it isn't.
And the moment I heard you and you said, is that okay?
And I said, is that okay?
That's great.
You know, I realized that you were onto something.
But I think what people don't get tend not to get.
And there's a good reason why maybe they don't get it because why should they?
But all of this stuff is a lot of hard work, isn't it?
It really is.
It's 5 a.m. in the morning.
And that's probably just answering people's emails and messages that I'm receiving.
And people, I don't have the answers to everything that you're asking, but I think what I am providing is an ear that's going to give you a fair listening to, should we say.
And I've got lots of folders on my computer with people's reports and cases that I'm working on.
I'm working on in the background, even though I might not be talking about them.
So just bear with me, people.
Yeah, it's a full-time job, Howard.
It is to keep on top of it.
And the one thing is, and you will have learned this, is people will communicate with you and they will divulge things to you if they feel that they trust you, if they feel that you are somebody that they can allow into their headspace.
And, you know, you've crossed that gap.
Yeah, I do believe that.
I think it really is about trust and they can see that you're putting faith in what they're saying and not just rolling your eyes.
Or the other way of looking at it, and there's no extra grind with anybody, but some people will just take a story and run with it, milk it for what they can get out of it, and then just drop the people.
And I have a good relationship with just about everybody that I've come into contact with within subject who's wanting to share their information.
some fabulous people out there who probably would never have spoken if they didn't think that they'd got somebody they could confide in.
And now you're in the situation where people are going to stop you in the street and tell you about things that they've experienced because they've read about you in the papers in your area and nationally.
They might even have seen you on the telly.
But, you know, they will, you're at that stage now, I think.
It's a bizarre one.
That one is a really bizarre thing when you're walking.
And I don't mean it happens.
I'm not a pop star, am I?
Let's face it.
But I do find that walking about our area in town and other places, people will stop and they want a little natter of people I don't know.
So, yeah, it's interesting.
And I just love the information.
As a researcher, as any researcher will probably tell you, they crave the information because that's what it's all about.
And I'm not complaining, but my head is absolutely crammed with it at the moment.
And that's hence the reason I'm getting up at 5 a.m. trying to put everything in folders and devote time to answering people who've been good enough to write to me.
Facebook is a peculiar thing, but Facebook early this morning threw up a picture of you at Bempton.
And we'll get into talking more about Bempton.
And this particular posting said that you were there last night as we record that.
Is that right?
That's correct.
And the night before.
And I went up last night specifically to meet that guy, Paul, because I don't know anybody using social media, Facebook.
Have a look at his pictures.
He goes overseas photographing and trying to document the Aurora Borealis, the Northern Lights.
And he found himself up there, as he has done for the last few weeks.
And we'd never met up.
So I realized he went up that night.
So I said I'd try and meet up with him.
And we just took a bit of an impromptu picture on the cliff tops.
And he's taking these incredible pictures, once again, from a fabulous vantage point for looking at unpolluted skies.
I mean, I don't want you divulging anything you don't want to divulge yet, but has he, since he's been there for a number of days, a number of nights, has he observed anything of the kind that you've observed?
Yeah, that to Howard is how I got to know the guy.
He didn't know anything about me and he'd never been to Bempton before.
And I think it was just before Christmas, somebody said, hey, have you seen this post on Facebook?
And there's this picture of this kind of ominous looking face.
No more than Paradolia, I don't think, this strange face in the clouds.
And he took it on the way back from Bempton, midway between Bempton and Speaton.
I could see the location and I messaged him and I got speaking to him.
And he said, well, I think he said he'd been to Norway and all sorts of places trying to take pictures of the Northern Lights.
He said, but he'd never been as frightened as what he was when he went to Bempton that particular evening.
He said he was down there taking photographs.
I think there was somebody with him.
And they became aware as what he believed was a figure in the field.
Now, let's face it, it could have just been some random person stood in the field in the middle of the night.
It's not out at realms of possibility, but it never moved.
It frightened them so much that they made an hasty retreat and they'd gone.
I mean, just a tall, dark shadow of a figure.
And on the way back, he took that strange picture.
So he'd got no interest in the paranormal as far as I know.
And he'd got no knowledge of me.
It was somebody that alerted me to the pictures he'd taken and this strange story that he'd put on Facebook about being frightened whilst being up there.
Could be just coincidence.
As we've said before, Howard, just because we're looking into an area where strange things happen doesn't mean that everything we look into is strange.
But, but, but, but.
You get to the point where you say to yourself, and it's not just with the work that you're doing, you get to the point where you say to yourself, how many coincidence do you have before you're dealing with a phenomenon?
Yeah, well, that's true.
And we are dealing with something up there without a doubt.
And, you know, for the people that probably sit watching TV and not opening the curtains until 7.38 in the morning who actually live in locality.
And then they'll turn around and go, there's nothing happens up here.
Well, that's the reason why.
Because you've got to put yourself in these places at ridiculous hours and just basically put the time in.
We've gone up now for the last well over six months and not had a hint of anything strange happening, despite people going up there at times when we're not there and reporting that they've had strange occurrences.
But last week, I think the 14th, on the 14th, we had a bit of a strange sighting of some lights out at sea, which have put some frame captures on the Truth Proof website.
And we've got footage of it.
It's a huge triangular shaped set of lights that are traveling as one.
And they do retract into the distance.
So there's about 12 to 15 seconds of it.
But I've only put frame captures on simply because, Howard, we probably want to use it in some future project.
And I didn't want to put it out just yet.
And then on the seventh, so seven days before, we captured something else.
So, you know, it has been interesting last two weeks.
And, you know, my thought, whenever you've talked about those things, in particular the formations of lights, is that this might, we don't know that it's paranormality, but there's a hell of a lot of stuff that goes along with it.
It might be military.
And I've always wondered and worried for you, really, about what you do to try and further that line of inquiry.
And I guess the better known you get, the more likely it is for people who work or have worked in and around the military to tell you things.
Yeah, I have received information, let's put it that way, about things that have happened along those cliff tops and further up the coast, to be honest with you, closer to Filingdales.
And we have to say that Filingdales, those of us who are from the north of England, if we watch the local telly, Filingdales is always fascinating because it's those balloon-shaped objects that scan the Horizons for incoming threats and, in particular, nuclear missiles.
Yeah, that's correct.
It's a huge pyramid-shaped object now, Howard.
But yeah, it's an interesting place, and obviously, totally out of bounds to dual public.
But there's things happening.
Whether it's military technology, a lot of it, that we're looking at, or whether it's a true unknown in the true sense of the word as some kind of unexplained phenomena, I don't know.
In some instances, I think we've got a mixture of both.
The lights on the 14th, I mean, we'd been observing the sky there for several hours, and it was about 8.30 in the evening, and I'm looking out to sea, and there's three points of light.
We know three points of light, unless it's in a straight line, are going to form a triangle of sorts.
Well, the highest point was very bright.
But it was one of them things, Howard, where I was with a guy, Peter, a friend of mine, and at first, because you're looking at a beautiful star-filled night, and I'm thinking, instantly, I thought, what's that star constellation?
I don't recognize that.
And very slowly, it tilted onto its side as one.
You could see between it, so I'm not saying that it was one solid object, but they all moved as one.
But it tilted onto its side almost like a triangle on its side.
You'd have to look at the frame captures, people, on the truth-proof website to see what I mean.
And listen, I've asked this question before.
This phenomenon, this thing, this array wasn't making any noise.
Absolutely silent, totally silent.
I had a psionics camera and I put it.
First of all, I probably looked at this thing for three or four seconds because no matter how experienced you think you are at looking at the sky and you're always going to capture this stuff, it still throws you when it actually starts to happen.
And I'm just trying to work out what I'm looking at.
So reached down for the camera, put the psionics on, and I just stood steady and filmed them until it just retracted and just disappeared into the distance.
Almost as though we were looking at it head-on and it was just going backwards and it just vanished out of sight.
It's a great bit of footage.
And that was on the 14th at about 8.30.
And then on the 7th, if you want me to stay with these two sightings, Howard, once again, I'm with Peter and my friend Bob Brown.
And obviously we're up there trying to observe or trying to capture some proof of what I'm talking about.
And I think there lies the part of the problem as well, because I sit on these podcasts talking about these things.
And it's almost like I'm wanting to validate it.
You know, anybody can tell a good story, but it's good if you can validate it and back it up with something.
And that's why a lot of the times I spend a lot of time up there.
And it paid off this particular night.
And I looked over onto the hillside looking inland, and there's only farmland behind it.
There's a farm to the left, which is probably about a mile away.
And I saw what I thought was like a gold bubble, bubbly shaped object, not object, light, on top of the hill.
And I brought it to the attention of Pete and Bob.
And it's kind of simmered down.
And I don't think they could really see it.
I'm trying to explain what it was.
And then suddenly it's in the air.
And it's a bright orange light and goes straight down to the surface again.
And you can just see like an afterglow.
So I put the camera on and stood and waited.
I should have done it straight away instead of explaining to Bob and Pete.
But they did see it.
So I waited and it did it one more time.
It didn't go as high in the air this time and then landed again behind the hill, whatever it was.
There's nothing behind that hill but farmland.
There's no properties or anything.
And when I say a hill, it looks like a hill from the front, people.
But if you actually climb onto the top of where you would think that the brow of this hill is, it's flat land going all the way back.
It just gives you that impression when you're looking at it from the front.
And quite what it was, I don't know.
Once again, I've put frame captures on, which I've captured from the footage obtained on the 7th.
Now, what's interesting here, Howard, and people have heard me talking about the 7th of February 2020 when Bob and my daughter went to the cliff tops with myself.
And I'm keen to stress that Gemma's not got an interest in this whatsoever.
She was just waiting to move houses and she chose to come up with us that night.
I'll not labor on the story, but they saw a square of white light on that hill.
And it's the same date.
I mean, I've said it on an, I think I've said it on your podcast probably the same year that it happened.
And so what's the, we talk about coincidences, Howard.
What's the chances of that happening?
The 7th of February, 2020, the square of light on the hill.
And when she went home that same evening, it was Gemma that talked about the growling, the strange sound that was behind her as she sat watching TV.
I remember people after that podcast being enthralled by it.
One or two being skeptical, but then people will always be.
I don't mind people being skeptical.
I'm not here to convert people.
I'm just telling people as I see it and as it is.
And we're not trying to tell them what we think it is because we don't know.
I haven't got a clue what it is, Howard.
Absolutely not got a clue.
And for the sceptics, that's fine.
I mean, your opinion is as valid as anybody's.
But you've got to walk in other people's shoes who've experienced it before you can truly appreciate what's happening.
I mean, it's dead easy just to say, what a load of rubbish.
It absolutely is.
Well, you can say that, but then you've got to say, well, where's your explanation then?
Yeah, I think that's the way that it goes.
Now, look, just to put this point in very quickly.
Yeah, it's fine.
Do you think that there was any...
Is there any connection between those things that we've talked about before and this phenomenon?
I think there's got to be.
I mean, there's a sighting at the back of the lighthouse where a guy walking his dog early one morning claims on a bright sunny morning that there's a huge Funnel of water comes out of the sea, and from the funnel of water, an object, UFO for want of a better reason, lifts out of the sea.
You know, we've had the photographs and the footage of the lights below the sea off Bempton.
And I think there's lots of examples of strange lights and activity out at sea off this coast.
And it probably happens in many places, Howard.
Well, I'm sure you'll get more reports and be checking that out again because it seems to be a gift that keeps on giving.
And maybe this is the year that I'm going to get up there and see it all for myself.
I said that.
Well, I do hope so.
You're welcome.
Now, what are we going to do?
Yeah, I want to get your thoughts just to take you back to a point that I should have taken you five minutes ago, but whatever.
The reports that I've discussed extensively, I'm not the only one to do that, of course, that made international news about balloons and strange objects in the skies over North America and them now shooting them down.
All I want to get really, Paul, from you is you must have heard all about this.
And you must have had a thought when you read the media reports and you heard President Joe Biden speaking about taking down the Chinese balloon.
And that set off a firestorm of people asking, what are these things?
Might they be UFOs?
And also now has prompted people to look more at the skies.
What are your thoughts about these weeks of strangeness around these objects?
It's people and the things that they're saying that I find more fascinating than the objects.
Because we've gone through not just years, but decades and decades of denial and a slow drip feed as the goal.
They've got to widen the goalposts as the public become more aware of the reality, the true reality of what we're looking at.
And then suddenly, in a matter of weeks, like you've just said, Howard, we get the balloon shot down, the suspected Chinese surveillance balloon.
And then is it another four?
You can see how much interest I've got in these things.
So far, I think another three.
And then China claims that it's got its eyes on something.
So why are we being told?
That's what I would be asking to start with.
If we've had years and years, decades of denial and decades of secrecy, why are we suddenly being told?
And the terminology that they're using, they're using the word UFO.
And they're not saying it's not a true unidentified.
I think we're being primed for other reasons.
And personally, I do think that it's military technology that's been shot.
I think in this case, some of the stuff that we're seeing and some of the debate that we've been having is political.
It's because America has been caught really with its pants down, if you want to put it that way.
That we all thought that anything that appeared in the skies over Britain or over America, whatever it was, if it was something that we didn't quite understand, we'd be aware of it.
And it turns out that this, you know, I think some asses, as we say in the UK, asses, as you say in the US, have been kicked in the military about this.
And now they're looking more closely at the skies.
And who knows what they're going to find?
And will they tell us if they decide to take any action around or against anything that they find?
That's the point.
They're looking now.
They've been caught out.
These things, I don't doubt, a military surveillance, whatever they might be.
But that's, we know, we're not stupid, that that's not everything that there is in our skies.
So I think you're dead right, Paul.
We're being primed for something.
I wonder how much of this is happening in the UK.
And will we get in this country any more information than they might get in the US?
Who knows, I think, is the answer.
Well, if they get it in the US, Howard, with the way knowledge travels now, you know, we're going to find out about it fairly quickly.
But I wonder what's in our skies, Paul.
Well, probably the same things that's in everyone's skies.
And is it the fact now that we're looking with a slightly different set of eyes or we're aiming things differently to the way that the military used to look at the skies?
Are they finding true unknowns in some instances?
Like I said, the latest ones, I think, would be military.
And people listening to this probably wouldn't have expected Paul Sinclair to say that because they probably think he wants to load everything to the UFO hypothesis.
Well, it can't always be that.
As I say, I think it's far more fascinating to observe the way that they're putting that information out and the way that they're using the UFO terminology and trying to treat it as some big, mysterious object.
I haven't got an answer, but why are they doing that?
Yeah, I would believe that you're not.
Rosswell was a weather balloon.
I think we'll see in the fullness of time, but I think there's a narrative playing out here, and I think we're going to be fascinated by it before I breathe my last breath.
Let me take you to the Wolflands documentary.
Oh, by the way, before I do that, we talked about Benton.
I'm sure it'll come up again.
And Gren, thank you very much for asking about that.
I hope some of what you've just heard answers what you were asking about.
Wolflands, the documentary about the forests north of you, the thick forests north of you.
You very kindly sent me a little bit of preview footage from this.
And if you don't mind me quoting, and I'll take it out of this if you don't mind me quoting from just one little line of the script.
Wolflands, the line of the script I loved was, the eyes that stare into the night, lands unclaimed and untamed.
And literally those forests that we've talked about so many times before are exactly that.
And that's why it's taken you a couple of years to put together this documentary about whatever it might be up there.
You know, bipedal creatures, Bigfoot-like creatures, things that frighten and observe and don't behave in any way that creatures that we know behave.
Yeah, those are the lines to a poem that I've written, which is incorporated into the documentary.
I mean, I don't mind how it, if you want to play it to the listeners, it's all good.
And I've no objection because no matter how many sections of the film we put out there, it's an hour and a half in length and no random section is going to spoil it for anyone else, I wouldn't think.
So yeah, to the things that stare into the night, unaware of why they even stare.
It's quite haunting, but it doesn't detract From the fact that, you know, I know I've been talking about Wolflands for a long time and it's way overdue.
But remember, there's just two people making this film: myself and Les Drake.
And we're there, it's filmed, we're just having the music incorporated into it now.
That's the bit I sent Howard.
And it's been a mammoth task.
And during the making of it, we've realised other people have come forward and there's even more information, Howard.
I've got a local now that's got an elderly local who lives on the edge of one of the forests in North Yorkshire, come forward and give me some knowledge about, for want of a better word, werewolves.
What a crazy thing to be talking about, you know, and to actually imagine that you've got a guy here in Paul Sinclair who's even taking it seriously.
But these people have seen something that we can only describe as that.
And yeah, we're just ready.
It's come to fruition.
The film is ready to go.
Just about we're there.
I had Cliff Berickman, you know, the guy behind Finding Bigfoot on the TV.
Oh, right, yeah.
The Animal Planet documentaries that have been, I think they aired until 2018.
They did a special back in 2021.
And for the moment, they're not doing any more.
Now, Cliff Berickman describes himself as having a scientific approach to Bigfoot, which is allied to the things that we are just talking about now here.
But his view is that we're talking about, and I think this paraphrases incorrectly, we're talking about something here that is a creature that we simply don't understand and is not something that is paranormal.
Now, you might take issue with some of that because the stuff that you've talked about for Wolflands definitely has a paranormal tinge to it, doesn't it?
Without a doubt.
I mean, I wouldn't...
and it's not just me saying that.
You talk to researchers all over the world, you know, respected researchers, Ron Moorhead, Barton Nunnally, Josh Turner, people who've actually...
But more importantly, it's the things that these creatures are able to do.
the lowest silence, the strange descent into these disjointed realities when people know that these things are around, they suddenly become aware that everything's changed.
The hunters who actually talk about...
Surely that must tell anybody that we're dealing with something else.
Something that may be beyond this dimension, something that may be able to step into and out of dimensions.
Yeah, I agree with the guy when you said it's something that's not understood.
It absolutely is something that's not understood.
We don't understand the science of it, and it probably is science-based.
I mean, I'm sure at some stage in our evolution, if that's the word, or our advancement in science, we will understand how these things are happening, but it will not stop it appearing like magic at the moment.
And the light form phenomena, so many reports of strange light seen in the places where these creatures are also reported.
Everything seems to go hand in hand with the paranormal element.
You get people talking about the communication that they get that doesn't involve speech, that these things seem to be aware of.
Once again, the hunters who aim the guns at these things and they talk about, I knew I hadn't got to do it.
I knew it were going to be fatal to me.
And I lowered the gun and suddenly the situation calmed.
It's almost like there's an extra intelligence to these things that takes them away from something else within the animal kingdom that wouldn't think like that.
There's so many attributes for myself that take them well out of the realms of a normal animal.
Plus the fact, I mean, we've got reports in Wolflands from the cliff tops of eastern North Yorkshire with the best will in the world, people, that there's no way that something that big, and it looks like a carnivore, it looks like some kind of apex predator, there's no way that that thing could survive undetected.
And when you say you've got reports, are these reports consistent with the ones that you've had in the past?
Are these current reports?
Yeah, we've got reports from Wolflands.
We've got a couple that, I think it was January the 29th, 2020, saw this thing on the cliff tops.
And we've got the military guys, ex-military guys.
Now, just stay with this one for a minute.
February the 8th, 2019.
Is there any significance there?
February the 7th, 2023, Paul sees the sphere of light on the hill.
February the 7th, 2020, Gemma and Bob see the square of light on the hill.
February the 8th, 2019, the military guys see this strange creature on the cliff tops, literally quarter of a mile down from where all that other activity were going.
But we've got a month, we've even got a month and a date that keeps repeating.
And you've talked about coincidence earlier, Howard, you know?
Okay, give me the, for those people are joining us all the time here, just give me some common features that seem to show up in many of the reports then.
What are the common characteristics of what you have been tracking?
I think the first thing that people, not everyone, but this goes across the board for all aspects of unexplained phenomena, a common thread seems to be the descent into this lower silence.
People call it the Oz factor.
I prefer to call it the lower silence, but that doesn't matter.
We're only talking words.
But this strange disjoint in reality where You become aware, but you're aware that everything's changed.
Suddenly, like on the clifftops of Scolby Mills, where one of our witnesses had his encounter, he realized he couldn't hear the sea anymore.
He couldn't hear the seagulls.
And this is the nighttime, but the people I live in a seaside town, these seagulls never stop.
And all around the coast, they don't switch off.
They're sharper than owls.
And so, first of all, you've got this strange change in atmosphere that seems to be an indicator that something's happened.
As I say, I think that applies to all types of unexplained phenomena.
But then you've got the fear factor.
We've not heard, and I'm not saying it's never happened, but I've not personally heard, of anybody being injured by these things.
It's almost, it's a fear-induced experience where they want to observe, but observe in such a way that the witness is absolutely terrified.
Then we've got the self-illuminating eyes.
What mammal do we have, not just in the United Kingdom, across the world, that's got almost bioluminescent eyes?
The nearest thing, I guess, you know, would be tiger, tiger burning bright in the forests.
In the forests of the night, the poem, yeah.
But would they, maybe they do, maybe some big cat expert could tell us, but maybe they do almost look bioluminescent in the darkness.
But I mean, the guys who witnessed the creature in Broxer Forest claim that the eyes just lit up in the darkness.
That's the first thing that they saw.
But having said that, before that, one of the witnesses knew it was there.
How does that happen?
Remember, these are people with no interest in the paranormal, the strange.
They were just out to do a bit of camping, never experienced anything like it in their life.
Yet one of those witnesses kept saying, we've got to go, we've got to leave.
There's something watching us.
And, you know, there is a bit of a, is it dichotomy?
Is that the right word here?
Because on one level, we're saying they're mysterious and, you know, they keep themselves to themselves.
And on another level, they seem to be impressing themselves upon the people who encounter them.
Yeah, but I would agree.
But a lot of the places that people are encountering them are so remote.
And is it random?
I wonder if it's random myself.
That part of it, I don't actually know, Howard, but you can picture in the middle of nowhere in the bottom of the ravine near Broxer Forest.
I wouldn't have thought you would have got many people camping there, I don't know, in years, let alone the unfortunate men that were there.
So anyway, late August 2022, sorry, 2018 that they had their experience.
But the places are remote, but they're also places that usually are steeped with history.
You know, obviously in that forest and around that surrounding lands, we've got lots of burial mounds and earthworks.
And we've only got to jump across the water and go to America.
And a lot of these bipedal fur-covered creatures are claimed to have been seen around Indian burial grounds.
And you know, is there some kind of link there to the dead?
I don't know.
Well, no, I know it's just about to use the word spirit.
Well, yeah, the spirit realm.
Yeah, I mean, are they guardians of the dead?
If we go to Egypt and we talk about Anubis, it was a dog-type deity.
I hope I've said that right.
And what was it?
It was the guardian of the underworld.
It led people to the afterlife.
And that's the picture I've always, whenever you've talked about these things, and we've talked numerous times about them, that's the picture I've always had in my head.
You know, this aware, almost dog-like, almost wolf-like, almost part-human creature that is apart from us.
That's the picture that I've seen.
Yeah, and I really, I wish I had the answers.
I mean, I know I've got all these reports and I know I've spoken to all these people, but it's not given me a solid answer.
It has given me an answer that takes it away from, did you say you were called Cliff Berrettman?
I probably pronounced that right.
That takes it away from the flesh and blood creature.
To me, there's just too many things that take it away from that.
And I do feel a bit, not sorry for people like that.
That's that bit wrong thing to say, but I think they're limiting themselves and the UFO researcher and the ghost hunter, if that's what we're going to call them, by just saying that's what I look into.
For me, Cliff, and I don't know the guy, it's probably an absolutely brilliant guy, but for me, he's limiting himself by just, he's already, his mind's made up.
That's what he is.
I have to say that he came on the show and I was enthralled by the conversation and I found it very persuasive and he is looking at this and has done so for 29 years from a scientific perspective.
I don't think he's specific.
I think he's been to some places in the UK.
I cannot remember off the top of my head whether he's been to this particular place.
But I think it would be interesting for you and him to look to meet it sometime because I think you'd really get on with him and who knows what might come out of that meeting.
Have you ever been tempted, Paul, and maybe you've done it, to go up there and stay for a week, if you'd be allowed to?
We've stayed for nights, several nights at a time, over the last three years.
And I stay for nights at a time up at Bempton and Spaton.
So yeah, definitely.
And have we experienced anything in them forests?
No, nothing at all.
We were up there 2021 and at one point in the night.
And this is where people can sort of imagine all sorts of things.
And suddenly a load of owls started hooting around us.
It was always circled by owls.
And my opinion was that they were just fledglings that had left the nest, you know, a nest of owls.
But we'd got a researcher up there with us.
I've suddenly believed it was the phenomenon.
It was the creature that's mimicking owls.
And that's where it becomes, for me, it takes it into the realms of ridiculousness.
They were owls.
Do you know what I mean?
But unusual.
But yeah, we've been up there and I've experienced, Apart from having an absolutely incredible night, because there's nothing like connecting with the wild.
The forest when it wakes in the morning and the forest when it goes to sleep and you're in some remote place.
It's fabulous.
It's a fabulous environment to go be in.
And we don't sleep.
When we go there, we don't sleep.
We'll sit up all night and we'll sleep during the day, grab a few hours during the day because if these things are going to happen, they seem to be happening in the silent hours, you know, after 12 o'clock and between 12 and 4.
And I don't want to miss the experience.
And maybe we're trying too hard, Howard.
Well, I don't know.
You know, there is a theory about all of the things that I've talked about for so many years on this show that if you, and I think it probably goes for life as well, I'm a great believer in programming for the things that you want and they tend to come to you, but they will come to you if you assert your intention and then forget about it.
If you start worrying it, you know, like a, I don't know, I'm having a lot of dental issues at the moment.
If you start worrying it like a problematic tooth, it's not going to do anything for you.
It's not going to deliver what you want.
You have to put out what you require or what you like.
And then it might well come to you, depending on the laws of the universe.
I suspect that an awful lot of these things work that way.
I was just thinking as you were saying that, it's almost like ask the universe.
And it happens, and for people who think that I'm nuts for saying that, I can multiply demonstrate it in my life.
The things that I've wanted have, maybe not in the time scale that I've wanted them, but they've tended to come to me.
Now, you tell me how that works, and we can have a debate for another five hours, I think.
Just one thing, Paul.
When it comes to the Wolflands material and when it comes to Bempton, have you ever done, and I think you have to some extent, but have you ever done a full radio frequency sweep?
And I mean talking about from LF, low frequency, all the way up to, you know, SHF and beyond, satellite-style frequencies.
Have you ever done that kind of sweep?
We haven't.
And I've got a guy, Peter Masters, who will probably end up listening to this, who's, we'll call him our radio expert.
He's sort of worked in this field and dabbled in this field for many, many years.
And he's got friends all over the country.
And we've detected, and please tell me if I'm wrong here, people, the 1.6 gigahertz was up at Bempton, which is the frequency that they're making a lot about at Skinwalker, I believe.
There's also, I was talking with Maria Wheatley about Stonehenge and various other things, there's also this low frequency, so-called, I think they call it the God frequency, that is observed there.
So I think there's a whole bunch of research to be done about that, because maybe phenomena in inverted commas displays itself by the frequencies that it radiates.
I'm putting that badly, but that's the best way I can.
Well, you're putting it better than me, Howard.
You know, you could be right.
And people will gauge from my answer to what you asked.
I've not got a lot of knowledge of it, Howard.
So, you know, I couldn't go into any depth or great depth with you on that one.
You gave me kindly a few topics, and I've had some very, I mean, these are the best questions I think that I've had for you yet.
I've got about six of those.
So I think we better crack on and do those.
Yes, all good.
One of yours, you mentioned Speaton, and we've talked about Speaton many times.
August 2022, UFOs over Speaton.
Yeah, I was given some footage on, I actually downloaded it yesterday.
I went to speak to the guy.
I don't think you'll mind me mentioning his name, Dave Barker, lives in Speaton.
And he contacted me to tell me that he'd filmed an object from his bedroom window, but it started before then.
He'd been in his garden the day before.
So it's August the 29th, 2022.
And he said it was between 9 and 10 at night.
And he walked to the front of his property.
There's nothing in front of it except open fields.
And you can actually see to the cliff tops of Speaton, probably just less than a mile away.
But it's open countryside.
So as he's stood at the front of his property, a huge orange light opened up in the sky.
And he described it just like that.
And I 100% know what he's talking about.
They're not flying from anywhere.
I asked him to estimate its kind of size at arm's length compared to a coin or a P. He said it's about as big as a two pence piece.
So this is huge.
Silent.
Up in the air above the cliffs.
He says obviously he can't tell whether it's out over the sea or whether it's further inland towards him, but he gauges that it's just over the cliffs in his estimation.
It looks to be a couple of hundred feet in the air.
He watches it for a few minutes, I think he said, and then it kind of just imploded and just disappeared.
So he's fascinated.
I think he stayed out then, made himself a drink and stood outside then watching the sky for another hour or so and nothing.
Then the next night, which takes us to the 30th, he said he's in bed, gets up in the night to use the bathroom.
Now I've seen the footage, the time stamped, it's 12.49 a.m.
So we're just before one o'clock and he can see a light, but this time he said it's over the fields in front of the cliffs.
And it's baffling him.
So he watches it for a while and then dashes downstairs and gets his phone and begins to film it.
You can hear on phone his wife's quietly saying, what are you doing?
And he's saying he's filming this strange light.
There's a farm to the far left.
So at one point he just moves over to the farm, which has got a few lights on it.
And I'm glad he does because it gives us some reference.
And this light, once again, it's amber.
And although it's dark and I can't see it actually in the field or just over the field, as I say, because of the farm, you've got reference that it's not very high in the air.
And it's almost flashing like the lighthouse.
And before people say, well, it's lighthouse.
It's not.
It's bright orange.
And the Flamborough Lighthouse beam has now changed people.
And there's no sweeping beam anymore.
It's just A light that flickers on and off, it changed late last year.
But this is bright orange, and it's just slowly flashes up like a slow flare that grows and then retracts, and then it just seems to turn.
Then you see a red light.
And Lazy's got it on film, and he managed to send it me.
I downloaded it today.
I actually sent a clip of it to Chris Turner as well.
And no doubt, I'll be sending some to Les, who's doing Wolflands with us, so that we can sort of analyse it further.
I've took it into a program and tried to throw more light into it to see if we can actually see what's behind this light or whether it's just some, as I've termed these things, the ILFs, the intelligent light forms, just some kind of light itself that's got its own awareness.
I don't know.
But yeah, that sighting was the 29th, or he had a sighting on the 29th, and the sighting with the footage is on the 30th of August, 2022.
So yeah, interesting.
Speaton once again.
And Howard, what's fascinating about Speaton is throughout the books, and Penny didn't drop straight away, but I've got lots of reports from Speaton.
And it's a little village, but the reports are along the cliffs and they're on the beach.
It gets very, very little footfall, even in the summer.
So it kind of tells you how rich it is in unexplained phenomena.
I would go as far as to say there's probably more activity there than there is at Bempton and Flamborough because it just gets that little footfall and the amount of people that contact me and say that they've seen something unusual at Speaton.
Well, if you say it's a place that is fairly inaccessible or is not accessed as much, then if I was doing some kind of experimentation, that's the kind of place that I would do it.
But again, we don't know, do we?
We don't, but that is the place.
That would be the place.
You know, I mean, we've got the guy observing when he was sat in a cafe towards Scarborough back in 1998 to observe the spheres of light that he said seemed to come out from the cliffs at Speaton with the red light on top.
And he thought they extended out over the sea a mile.
And the people in the cafe were watching it.
Then it seemed to go back into the cliffs.
I was keen to stress then that I'm not suggesting that there's some kind of opening in the cliffs and I'm keen to stress that.
Well, then that's almost like the Phoenix lights, isn't it?
Yeah, yeah, it looked absolutely, absolutely.
We've got the police officer who was at Filey Brig, stood on the brig with his wife.
There's a couple behind him with young children.
And they're all looking at what best thing they could say is a flying saucer, a UFO, above the cliffs at Speaton.
Now we can gauge the cliffs at 420 feet at the rise point.
And they just look to be a little bit higher than the cliff tops.
And this is a daylight sighting.
And then they said it zigzagged, not flew straight, it zigzagged the six miles from Speaton to Filey and stopped above their heads.
And they're all watching it.
And that's a former police officer.
Not that it makes it any more credible.
But once again, we've got Speaton.
Then we've got the young boy camping on the beach.
His mum and dad let him go down and light a fire and do what he wanted to do.
I think this was 1980s, 1988, I think.
But he came to me with the story, saw what he perceived were a sphere of light that looked like the size of the moon.
Just disseparated from the cliff, halfway up the cliff.
Suddenly he realized it's coming towards him and he set off running and then he hid behind one of the little clay inlets that's further up towards Reeton, expecting this thing to pass and it never did.
Once again, Speaton, we get the cat sightings at Speaton as well.
I'm not sure why that is.
Well, probably because it's just remote.
You know, we've had cryptid sightings at Speaton.
It's interesting.
A totally indistinct place.
Like I said, if you want to go down onto the beach from the village itself, you've got a 300 to 400 foot steep incline to get down, which is sludgy and fairly inaccessible.
You can walk to it from Reeton along the sands, but you can't get anywhere else.
You could get cut off by the tide.
It's a harsh environment.
How much time have you got, Paul, this time around?
Yeah, just fire away, Howard.
We're all good.
Okay, because I was thinking, and you can tell me, no, I can't do that.
Maybe we can complete your cases and then we can do a part two of this and I can ask the listener questions.
Does that work for you?
Yeah, it's all good.
Because I know some of these guys you do podcasts with these days, you know, sometimes there's an awful lot of other peripheral stuff that they do.
And sometimes you do a part one and part two.
And we've only done that once.
So if you're a question.
If you're a question, just tell me if you've got to go at any point.
All right, let's deal with this.
Now, the cases that you deal with, one of the most impressive things about you is that you are an ongoing researcher.
You're still getting reports in, you're doing your own research.
And a lot of this material, as we heard with Speeden, is contemporaneous, I think, is the word is within recent memory.
But you also look at cases that are further back.
And one of the ones that you suggested for this time with us is 1985, which is now, whether we like it or not, Paul, a long time ago.
The deep car UFO over the brick factory there, second sighting over Warncliffe Crags, and the Bendy Man and the group of strange people.
That's how you put it.
Can you unpack that?
It's a fabulous story.
I've spoke to this lady at length, Howard.
They call her Deborah.
I'll not say her surname.
And she lives near Warncliffe.
And I think that she'd heard me on a podcast talking about these creatures that were seen in Warncliffe Woods.
And so as a young girl, I think she said she was 13 years old.
She lived in a council house.
She gave me the exact name of the road and the number and everything, but I've no need to do that.
But the property looked onto a brick factory called the Jennifax Brick Factory, which has long since gone.
But at the time, that's what it was.
She said in 1985, she's looking out of the window.
It's evening.
It's just getting dark.
Mum and dad are still at work, or they're out.
I'm assuming they're at work.
And she sees an object above the brick factory.
And she said, even now, when she watches close encounters, or if she sees anything like that, her mind instantly goes back.
She said, because that is exactly what it looked like, but on a smaller scale.
She said, there's this object with all lights around its rim that just, it's a spaceship.
She's a young girl.
She phoned a grandma.
No mobile phones, landline, and rang her up and told her what she were looking at and said she can see this spaceship.
And grandma said, shut the curtains, get under the table and hide.
Yeah, yeah.
So she said, I took her advice, and that's exactly what I did.
She said, so she'd had this sighting, this incredible sighting of the spaceship.
Just looked like something from close encounters.
Now, she doesn't obviously know how many days later, but a few days later, she sees it again.
First of all, she goes on, they can also see worn cliff crags, the rocky outcrops from the windows as well.
And she talks about seeing the climbers going up the crags in the red Kagools, the blue Kagools, because it will make sense in a moment, people.
And it takes about an hour to climb up the crags.
And a few days later, she said, I saw these white beings, these white shapes, very tall, taller than people, with very long, thin white arms and thin white legs.
I think she said there was three of them.
And this is daylight, we're not talking night.
And bear in mind, she's told us that these people, these climbers, get up the crags in about an hour, depending on how good they are, or such would imagine, or where they are on the crags.
She said, and these things started to climb up the crags.
She said, have you seen a caterpillar when it moves?
And it bunches up and then stretches out and bunches up.
She said, and these things went up the crags in about five moves and they were on top.
And so she'd seen these.
So this is all days after the sighting.
So someone's interested in this and the someone who's interested in whatever was going on there was potentially something that, you know, our physics, our science doesn't understand.
I mean, I'm thinking grey aliens here.
I mean, it sounds bizarre, but it sounds absolutely bizarre.
I spoke to Philip Mantlout about it a few days ago because Philip's a wealth of knowledge and it's right up his street, this locality, because there were a little bit of info wanted from Philip to see whether it tied in.
Because this is, you know, we're going back quite a lot of years.
Philip will laugh when I say, because Billy's old enough to remember all this, isn't he?
But maybe I am too.
Well, I think I am.
I'm 60, so there we go.
So she's seen these three things bunch their way up the cliffs in five moves.
A few days later, and I think she's told a friend Karen, real name, she's told a friend Karen about this.
And I think, well, Karen didn't see it, but we'll carry on.
Just before we do carry on, how does she regard all of this then?
She's in awe.
She just can't believe what she's seen because obviously never seen or experienced anything like this before.
And she can't get it off her mind.
That's why she's found herself looking out of the window ever since, or whenever she could, ever since she's seen what she calls this UFO that looked like something from close encounters above the Jennifax brick factory.
1985 people.
I haven't got a month.
I mean, we might be able to get to a month with enough kind of 38 years ago.
Yeah, yeah.
So then she seen the Bendit people as she called them.
So a few days later, and I wish I could be more specific, she sees it again.
The UFO.
She believes it's the same one.
It's a little bit further away, but it's above the crags.
It's above Warncliffe Crags.
And she watches it.
And she said the crags were glowing red and orange.
And this thing descended.
Now, you would think if she's seen it, we're going to have a lot more people that have seen this.
So it descends, and she thinks it's landed just behind the crags on the flatland at the back, which is essentially like a moor at the top of the crags.
There's no woodland or anything up there.
It's flat, barren heather.
So the next day, Deborah and Karen, and I think it's Karen's little sister, who was only nine, they decide to go and investigate.
No fear in their heads or anything.
They go and investigate.
And as schoolgirls, and they make their way up the crags.
Don't forget, people, there's other ways up.
You don't have to climb these sheer rock faces because I can imagine somebody listening to this saying, Because I know what would happen to me if I tried.
Oh, yeah, we're not recommending anything like that.
But what I'm saying is there's paths up there without having to climb anything.
When they get up onto the crags and they do a little bit of walking, they find, she said, about a 30-foot circle of burnt and scorched heather.
And they stood in it.
It's absolutely defined.
They're on the edges of this burnt, scorched heather.
And they think they've found where a spaceship's landed.
Did they tell anybody?
I don't think they've told anybody.
You know, I've got this story probably from Deborah probably two or three months ago.
Started writing about it.
And I spoke to her yesterday because, you know, I like to keep in touch.
I don't want people to think I've just, well, I've got the information and goodbye.
And I'll contact them from time to time.
I have more questions to ask.
So you would think everything had been quite exciting.
The UFO, the Bendy people, the second sighting, and now the supposed landing.
She says, and we just look into the distance and we can see.
And Deborah, forgive me if I've got this wrong.
If it was 12, then fair enough.
But I think she said there's three adults and 15 children a long way away in the distance.
She said, but the adults are dressed in bowler hats with what look like black suits.
And the children, the boys, I suppose, are just Little boys, but the girls look like they've got little milkmaids' hats on.
I realize, people, how bizarre this sounds, but I just say it as I'm told it.
And that sounds like a description that somebody would give you if they didn't understand what they were looking at.
Yeah, so she's looking at these things, Karen's looking at them, and little sister, I imagine he's doing the same.
And I don't know, they look away for a moment.
When they look, they're a lot closer.
And suddenly they're filled with fear, absolute fear.
And there's limited how they can run because they've got this younger one with them.
And they set off running and they turn back and they're closer.
And they turn back and they're even closer.
And these, these, whatever these people were, were covering ground without being seen running.
Every time they turned back, they were closer.
So they're almost teleporting themselves, not walking.
If that's the word, Howard, but you know, they didn't see them floating.
Every time they turned back in fear, because they were absolutely terrified, these people, these three adults and 15 children, were a lot closer.
They turned back, say, the third or fourth time.
There's nobody there.
They've gone.
So that is the story of Warncliffe Woods.
Now, I did contact Peter, sorry, Philip Mantle, because around that time, I think there were some police officers or security men that were doing some work near the bypass.
Somebody's going to tell me where this is in that area who saw people dressed in unusual clothing.
And that's been documented, and I think it's been in newspapers.
So that's going to help stand this up, isn't it?
Well, it will do, yeah.
And what an unusual story.
There's four components that have come out of one story.
And we've got the descriptions of these, like you said earlier, they're almost alien-type beings that are climbing up the cliff.
Then we've got the descriptions of somebody that sounds like they're in Victorian dress or something that's presenting as that for some reason to, I don't know, to confuse or I really don't know.
But four components from one sighting.
Fabulous.
Really good story.
I mean, that life is a whole book in itself, Paul.
Well, it's a great story.
And, you know, these historic sightings, in my mind, they're just as important.
I know that we can't get the finger on the pulse anymore and get up to find any physical evidence.
We can't go a few days later and look at this 30-foot circle of scorched and burnt heather.
But it doesn't make what, potentially it doesn't make what this lady's saying any less true.
And she's already spoken to a friend Karen who's willing to speak to me as well.
You know, so I'll get to speak to both of them soon.
And they're going to want, certainly the principal, the first lady, they're going to want some closure or some explanation.
You can't go through your life having been through something like that without wondering about it and longing for an answer.
Now, listen, Paul, we talked about doing a part two.
Are you still up for that?
All good, yeah.
Let's fire away.
Okay, let's make a plan.
And we're just having this conversation between ourselves, but I'm going to go make a cup of coffee.
Should we reconvene in five minutes for part two?
And you're leaving this hanging, and I'll make myself a tea.
Yeah, exactly.
All right, then.
My listener's going to hear this.
So I'll leave this exactly where it is.
So this is live and as it's happening right now.
And I love having a more exactly.
And I'm having a nice relaxed conversation with Paul.
There's a lot more to talk about, some more stories from Paul, plus questions from Philip, Ian, Stuart, Claire, who's in Yorkshire, Richard, who's in Southampton, and Christopher.
And there may be some others too.
So we're going to do that in part two.
If that's all right with you, Paul, I'll see you in five minutes.
Yeah?
You will do it.
Take a five minutes.
Paul Sinclair, he's going to take a five-minute break.
I'm going to take a five-minute break.
You can skip to part two of this.
My name is Howard Hughes.
Part one of The Unexplained, Howard Hughes, Paul Sinclair, February 2023.
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