Three guests from a recent tv show - Old friend of the show Micah Hanks from The Debrief on the major new "UFO/UAP Archive ", Reading University's Dr. Simon Clarke on the 48,000 year old "bug" revived from from the frozen tundra - and an update from paranormal researcher Barry Fitzgerald in Sligo, Ireland...
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| Across the UK, across continental North America, and around the world on the internet, by webcast and by podcast, my name is Howard Hughes, and this is The Unexplained. | |
| Hoping that everything is good with you. | |
| Thanks for the emails. | |
| Always gratefully received. | |
| You can go to my website, theunxplained.tv, follow the link, and you can send me an email from there. | |
| On this edition of the show, three guests from a recent television show that I think need to be preserved here for posterity so they don't get erased and lost forever. | |
| Number one, Micah Hanks, old friend of this show. | |
| If you go back through the back catalogue of podcasts, you'll see Micah appearing all the way back, I think, to about 2008. | |
| From the debrief these days is Micah on the new UFO archive that made international news in the last two weeks or so. | |
| So we'll talk with him about that. | |
| We'll have Dr. Simon Clark, who's an expert on bugs, essentially, viruses, bacteria, that kind of thing, from Reading University, on the story that did make news in some places, not a lot of news in the UK, about the 48,000-year-old bug revived from the Siberian tundra. | |
| And whether actually making a point of reviving such things, and whether such things release themselves as the ice melts and the ground becomes less frosty. | |
| You know, whether there are risks involved in any of that. | |
| An interesting conversation with a man who knows. | |
| Dr. Simon Clark, second guest. | |
| Third guest, paranormal author, researcher, and broadcaster Barry Fitzgerald in Sligo, Ireland, another old friend of this show, Returns to the Unexplained. | |
| So we have an awful lot to get through. | |
| These items were originally on the TV show. | |
| So the sound might be, by the time I've sort of processed and fiddled with it, it should be much the same as this, but it will be a little different, I think. | |
| So, guest number one from the debrief, Micah Hanks. | |
| Very good to talk with you as well, Howard. | |
| How are you? | |
| We've got video. | |
| Hey, you were one of the very first people who appeared on my podcast. | |
| There is no reason why you should remember this. | |
| It was probably a very insignificant event in your life, but it was a big one for me. | |
| So thank you for supporting me for all these years. | |
| I remember it well, though, my friend. | |
| I certainly do. | |
| And that's one more reason it's good to be back. | |
| Talk to me about this archive center. | |
| It sounds very exciting, but as far as I can recall, isn't the problem with having one place that is supposed to be a central repository of all this information that in fact we know that a lot of archives and records reside with either individuals, if they're still with us, or those who they've given their archives and records to? | |
| I'm thinking of people like Stanton Friedman, who gave his archive to an institution in Canada recently after his passing. | |
| So can this be that big a centralized repository? | |
| You know, as far as United States efforts, I think it certainly can be. | |
| The mission, as it was explained to me by David Marlow, who's heading up this effort, is for the National UFO Historical Records Center to be the largest in the nation. | |
| Now, there are other facilities around the world that are also as large or even larger, like the Archives for the Unexplained. | |
| But I think it's very important and fundamental, really, to understand that, in my view, Howard, the best thing we can do with all the knowledge we collect about unidentified aerial phenomena, the artists formerly known as UFOs, but we call them UAP today, you know, that information should be preserved. | |
| And I've worked personally over the years to, you know, help people who have collections get them to universities and to other institutions. | |
| And so what David Mahler and the team with the National UFO Historical Records Center are hoping to do is essentially just centralize this information. | |
| But, and this is significant, in addition to having one central location where those actual source documents, primary sources for historians, you know, skeptic and believer alike, that they can go and they can look at these, there is also going to be a concerted effort to digitize this information so that people all around the world can access this information as well. | |
| Okay. | |
| How do you think it will help the quest for knowledge on this subject? | |
| Because, you know, we're learning so much more, and they're talking about more hearings in Washington very, very soon. | |
| How is this going to help? | |
| Well, how I think it's going to help is it's going to provide a location, again, a centralized location where when it comes to the UAP subject, the majority of the relevant information from credible sources, and that, by the way, not just exclusive to government sources, you know, information collected from the Department of the Defense and, you know, from Air Force and other, you know, agencies that have looked into this over the years. | |
| This is also going to include scientific efforts by civilian agencies like, for instance, the JLN Heiner, sorry, JLN Heinek Center for UFO Studies. | |
| All of this information combined together, I think, is going to be great because people will be able to find it in one centralized location. | |
| And as you know, I mean, a UFO researcher of many years like myself, I've spent sometimes hours, days, even weeks looking for certain information that may or may not even be available online and trying to find it in scattered different locations. | |
| Sometimes it had been on a website, but it's no longer there, and you have to be able to dig it up through archive.org. | |
| I mean, that in itself can be a real challenge. | |
| And so to have a location where people who really are interested in the history of this subject can go and find it, that in itself will be, you know, a tremendous benefit. | |
| But I think it's also important that with the renewed U.S. government interest in this, and we also hear whispers about other governments around the world that are also kind of reamping their efforts to get to the bottom of the UAP issue. | |
| It's incumbent upon us to emphasize, I think, that there's a deeper history beyond just 2004. | |
| So much focus has been placed in recent years on the USS Nimitz incident and other recent developments. | |
| But this topic has a much deeper history, as historians of the subject like Barry Greenwood and others will know. | |
| And so I think it's also important to have a historical records center where those who are new to the subject, but who have, let's just say, the best toys, those in government who are really going to be looking at this with new eyes and with a new perspective in the 21st century, that they also have access to historical records that can help them see the bigger picture and place this in the proper temporal context. | |
| Maybe unfair to ask this question. | |
| We've only got a minute or so on this, but I just wanted to get a thought from you. | |
| I'm sure you've heard about this. | |
| Forgive me if you haven't. | |
| This man, the Area 51 researcher, George Georg Andrew, who had his home raided by the FBI for reasons that we still haven't had made clear to us. | |
| Just in 30 seconds or so, Micah. | |
| What do you make of this? | |
| Well, you know, it's a little concerning. | |
| Howard, you and I, we have one thing, well, many things in common, but I mean, we're journalists. | |
| And when it comes to transparency, sunshine laws, you know, openness and government, I'm always a little concerned when I hear about a no-knock raid on somebody's home because they're reporting on something that we've seen far too little transparency on. | |
| And that, of course, being aerospace developments and things that happen here stateside. | |
| So, you know, my initial reaction was it's concerning, but I'll wait and I'll see what the facts are because, again, as journalists, we've got to report on those facts. | |
| And maybe there are still a few we're trying to get about that particular incident. | |
| Micah, thank you so much for helping me. | |
| Nice to see you this time. | |
| What's your website so my people can check you out? | |
| Indeed, my, of course, personal website is micahanks.com, just my name. | |
| And of course, you can follow the reporting by the team and I over at thedebrief.org. | |
| Always lovely to speak with Micah Hanks. | |
| You know, he's somebody that I just got on with from the very moment we first spoke on The Unexplained. | |
| And nice to know that things are going really well for Micah. | |
| We'll speak with him again. | |
| Next, Dr. Simon Clark from the University of Reading on the tantalizing story of the 48,000-year-old bug that's been revived effectively from the Siberian tundra. | |
| Let's talk this around with a man who knows. | |
| Dr. Simon Clark, who used to come on here a lot. | |
| Nice to have him back. | |
| Associate Professor in Cellular Microbiology at the University of Reading. | |
| Simon, thank you for coming on again. | |
| How are you? | |
| Good evening. | |
| I saw this story and thought of you. | |
| It was in a number of portals this last week or two. | |
| A 48,000, I don't know how they can be so precise about the dating of it, a 48,500-year-old Siberian virus has been revived by French scientists. | |
| Now, before my viewer panics about this, this isn't something that can do human beings harm. | |
| But there's a story that hangs on this. | |
| All of the viruses revived by a team in France are of the Pandora virus type, a group of giant viruses only capable of infecting single-cell organisms like amoebas, so they're not a threat to us. | |
| But the fact that all nine ancient viruses were still capable of infecting living cells after spending tens of thousands of years stuck in permafrost in Siberia means that other viruses trapped there are potentially contagious for plants, animals, or even humans. | |
| There are two things here, aren't there? | |
| Number one, scientists doing experiments like this to revive viruses like that. | |
| And, you know, some, including, I think, some Russian scientists have warned about the dangers of that. | |
| The other thing, of course, being the warming of the planet and the melting of the ice might release something we're not going to like. | |
| It throws up two issues, doesn't it? | |
| It does. | |
| The first question about the scientists reviving things in the lab, really, if you can keep it under control, it shouldn't be a problem. | |
| It should be entirely possible to contain these new agents. | |
| But really what's happening is that the large areas of tundra in places like Siberia are defrosting because of global warming and presumably will continue to do so. | |
| And of course, for tens of thousands of years, bacteria, viruses, fungi have been literally frozen away. | |
| Now, most of what got frozen away all those tens of thousands of years won't be viable anymore, but some of it probably will be. | |
| And that could cause real problems to our ecosystems, to our health as we know it now. | |
| And what can we do about that other than making vast areas no go-zones? | |
| But even if we do, stuff gets into the air. | |
| Stuff gets into the air. | |
| And people, you know, there are some people living in these areas as well. | |
| These things could still escape. | |
| I don't really think there's an awful lot we can do. | |
| I think really just keep an eye on the situation and try and gain an understanding of what's there and what might escape. | |
| Dr. Simon Clark, my thanks to him. | |
| He's from Reading University. | |
| Now, an update from paranormal author, researcher, and broadcaster Barry Fitzgerald in Sligo, Ireland. | |
| Old friend of this show and always good to hear from Barry. | |
| Barry Fitzgerald returns to this show. | |
| A famous Irish paranormal investigator spans north and south of the border with stunning stories and amazing research. | |
| A little bit of biography here, since I have it available. | |
| Barry Fitzgerald is an Irish author and paranormal investigator and was the lead investigator on the sci-fi paranormal investigative cable TV show Ghost Hunters International. | |
| He was born in Lisbon. | |
| He's had over three decades of experience as an investigator of the supernatural and been involved in many books and investigations. | |
| He's online to us now from Sligo. | |
| How are you, Barry? | |
| I'm good. | |
| It's great to see you again. | |
| It's been some time since it's always good to be able to do this in Vision too, because you'll see the whites of their eyes, Barry. | |
| That's what the thing is. | |
| Now, I've got a great friend who I used to work with in Liverpool, Kieran Devaney, who lives in Sligo. | |
| Oh, yes. | |
| He's a terrific journalist, radio and television, and a thoroughly good chap. | |
| And I often try to get an idea. | |
| Sligo seems to be a very unusual place because you're a little bit out of the way, aren't you? | |
| Well, we can't go any further into the Atlantic. | |
| But where we are here, you know, we're nestled 10 minutes from the mountains and that horseshoes around us and we're on the Atlantic Ocean. | |
| It is a beautiful spot. | |
| We just get hounded by the rain. | |
| That's the only thing. | |
| Well, one or two of the videos that I've seen of Sligo, it's a place I'd love to visit. | |
| As you say, you can't go any further. | |
| But when you get battered by the Atlantic, you get battered, don't you? | |
| Oh, we do, yes. | |
| Now, Galway and Clark seem to get it worse than we do for their sins. | |
| But, you know, we tick our hounding as well. | |
| Okay. | |
| For people who haven't seen you on here before, how would you describe yourself? | |
| Well, I'm an avid paranormal investigator. | |
| And in fact, into everything supernatural. | |
| And the last book that I wrote, The Deception of Gods and Men, paves the way for several others that are coming behind that, which really looks at this thread that weaves through much of the fringe research fields and really shows a common factor that comes out through it. | |
| But that in itself was formed over many years, that observation. | |
| And working on the TV show allowed me to travel north and south of the hemisphere to speak to people of different cultures, different faiths, and get to hear what experiences they were having and how I was identifying those with what we also experienced back here in Ireland. | |
| And that always amazed me about, well, hold on a second. | |
| They may be interpreting it slightly differently, but the phenomena remains the same. | |
| How can this happen? | |
| So that always amazed me. | |
| And of course, that has culminated in this recent book. | |
| You and I have talked about the Banshee, you know, the famous and very terrifying for those who experience this noise, this spook. | |
| If we have the idea, and I think you're right, I think there is a lot of commonality between what people experience around the world and the way that they describe it. | |
| It varies in the description, perhaps only. | |
| But does the Banshee have affiliates in different parts of the world? | |
| There are. | |
| In Scotland, they have their own version as well, and in North America as well. | |
| Also in Hungary, there's a different version as well. | |
| But primarily, what intrigued me is the work that I released within the Book of the Banshee, it continued further to see that the translation of the word Banshee originates from, we believed at the very beginning, was woman of the fairy. | |
| But that's actually not the case. | |
| The woman of the she. | |
| The she is actually the mounds, the Neolithic mounds that are dotted across the landscape. | |
| So the proper translation is woman of the mounds. | |
| So that in itself, we have to look at who was building the mounds and our archaeological history is pointing that the fingerprints of those builders of those mounds were originating within the Fertile Crescent. | |
| And it was interesting when I was going through some of the old clay tablets from Mesopotamia that there was reference to a particular entity there that matched what we would interpret as the Banshee here in Ireland. | |
| So it's quite possible maybe that was inherited also by the builders when they came here to Ireland. | |
| So the Banshee has always been associated with, as you say, particular territory, with a particular area. | |
| And so we can assume, can we, that if those situations, if those topographical, if that's a word, conditions exist elsewhere, then you might get a similar phenomenon in another country. | |
| It is quite possible. | |
| People have wrote to me before and said that they believe that they heard the Banshee. | |
| Now, I've heard the Banshee three times now. | |
| Really? | |
| I don't have language to describe what I was hearing. | |
| But the strange thing is, Howard, I never forget it. | |
| Whenever I hear it again, I know it straight away. | |
| And when you heard it, Barry, you know, where were you and how did you hear it? | |
| Because I have this, I mean, look, I'm from Liverpool, so we're all a bit Irish in Liverpool. | |
| I've got, you know, some Irish ancestry, a bit of Welsh in there, you know, nothing much English, but I've got, you know, a lot of, and I'm very proud of it. | |
| I always used to assume when people talked about the Banshee, you know, they'd say to me in Liverpool, you're screaming like a banshee. | |
| I don't think they quite understood what the phenomenon was. | |
| But, you know, this is something that is almost ethereal, isn't it? | |
| I'm wondering when you experienced it, how you experienced it. | |
| Oh, there's a distinction, a really clear distinction. | |
| A lot of people who haven't experienced it, you know, their minds will immediately say, oh, well, that was just a case of a fox, a vixen crying for her mate, or it was a hare caught in a trap, or maybe some lady out on the streets who had been out for a party and let a holler out of her. | |
| But that's not the case, because those we know, we don't react to those. | |
| When the band she is heard, immediately it kickstarts our fight or flight. | |
| And with that, through my own experiences, I understood that at that particular moment, she activates your sense of your psychic center is activated at that point to make you aware that wait, stop, listen. | |
| Death is coming. | |
| And it should be pointed out that the reason that I wrote the book about the Banshee is because there was a lot of stuff coming from the United States, for instance, that said, oh, the Banshee's not heard in Ireland anymore since 1945. | |
| And the people who heard the Banshee are the ones that die. | |
| All wrong. | |
| That is not the case. | |
| If anything, what I did happen to see is that there is a type of empathy, if you can expect that, with the Banshee in the fact that she is heard right into the modern day of Ireland. | |
| I've interviewed people around Ireland who have had these encounters, including people who were coming to visit tourists. | |
| And when she does make that cry, it's the people around the person that is about to lead this mortal coil. | |
| They will hear it. | |
| They will know that death is coming. | |
| So the Banshee is a harbinger of passing. | |
| Yes. | |
| She doesn't bring it. | |
| She announces that it's coming and that we have to prepare. | |
| And the people who are passing, they do not hear a thing. | |
| So it's very, very quiet and easy for them to pass. | |
| Of course, with a lot of paranormal phenomena, and you will know this, people say this widely, that, and I wonder if the Banshee fits into this category, that these things only have power and they're only apparent because people believe in them. | |
| Do you think that by people in Ireland believing in the Banshee, they actually empower the Banshee? | |
| No, it'll not make a difference whether you believe in it or not. | |
| And the people I interviewed for the book, it made it quite clear that whether you believe or not, you'll still experience it if you're in the right place at the right time. | |
| Promise we're going to talk about your book in the next segment. | |
| Just to talk a little bit about hauntings and ghostly happenings, periodically, stories from Ireland get into the newspapers here, perhaps not as much as they do from Scotland and Wales, but they do. | |
| Have you recently been doing any sort of ghost-style investigations or have you stopped doing that? | |
| I still do it. | |
| I observe it more so than get involved. | |
| And we have our own thing going on at the minute within the house that I'm having to monitor. | |
| Your own thing? | |
| You mean you've got a ghost in your house? | |
| Sometimes you're going to track things home. | |
| Really, what? | |
| So you think you brought something home from somewhere you've been? | |
| No doubt. | |
| No doubt. | |
| It can happen from time to time. | |
| In the house that you're in now. | |
| Yeah, yeah, yeah. | |
| So the likes of the doors would be opened, unlocked, and you go through the doors and you turn to go back in, and the door's locked in behind you. | |
| So that can be a nuisance, of course, at times. | |
| But huge amount of things that have been going on. | |
| But these things happen. | |
| What do you think it is? | |
| I'm not quite sure. | |
| So I'm monitoring. | |
| And like all good science, it begins with observation. | |
| And that's what I'm doing. | |
| I'm sitting back and observing quietly. | |
| And are you using any adjuncts to your observations? | |
| You know, the people who call themselves ghost hunters, they use boxes and vines. | |
| I hate those things. | |
| I hate those things. | |
| I find a lot within the paranormal, the supernatural world, I use instinct a lot, my own impressions, what I pick up on. | |
| We have an amazing gift of discernment. | |
| And what I find is that when we're using too much equipment, that keeps us locked in the conscious brain. | |
| So we're focused on the equipment and not feeling, sensing the environment around us. | |
| And we're losing a huge part of that, I think. | |
| Whatever it is in your house that you may or may not have brought back from somewhere else, you say that you don't use equipment, but like all of us who are interested in these things, you are an observer of such things. | |
| Do you do anything to invoke it? | |
| Have you spoken to it? | |
| No. | |
| No. | |
| Are you going to? | |
| Not at all. | |
| No. | |
| And the reason why is that we see a certain pattern evolve when you engage the phenomena. | |
| And I see the way that those particular patterns can unfold. | |
| And that's from experience, seeing this time and time again. | |
| And I prefer not to engage. | |
| I observe. | |
| And from that, I learn a lot. | |
| But I don't get involved. | |
| And that in itself leads us into the recent book, The Deceptions of Gods and Men, because within that interaction between me and it, there is a mountain of deception that can come through, which we have to be very, very vigilant for. | |
| When you talk about deception, do you mean that the phenomena attempts to deceive? | |
| Yes. | |
| Yes. | |
| Why would it do that? | |
| There are multiple questions as to why, but we see it time and time again. | |
| The way that I tend to work things, Howard, is that if you establish contact with something, you must make sure that you understand what you're dealing with. | |
| So if the entity, if the being, the energy, or whatever it appears as, is there for your greater good, well, then it will not mind if you questions for clarity. | |
| But nine times out of ten, the moment that you become suspicious of it, it's gone. | |
| It does not want to be found out. | |
| That speaks volumes to me time and time again, that there's deception here. | |
| And when I've seen with other folks as well, when I've been in their presence, when they're making contact, that everything starts off great. | |
| And sooner or later down the line, there will be an element of deception that will snip in. | |
| And that's whenever I would hook onto it and go, hold on a second. | |
| Let's analyze this. | |
| Let's look at this a little further. | |
| And whenever that happens, communication stops. | |
| That's interesting. | |
| So whatever it might be, and we've heard this with people who do remote viewing. | |
| They've tried to remote view Satan, for example, that the watcher is aware, that the watched becomes aware of them, if you understand what I'm saying. | |
| There is a conscious connection with us. | |
| Yes, absolutely. | |
| And that conscious connection, by communicating with it, you make that conscious connection. | |
| Now, either it is engaging the connection, as in, for instance, at night, people will go out and they'll see lights in the sky and things like that. | |
| If they engage with that, that contact is made, that is established. | |
| And for a lot of people, that phenomenon can follow them back to their homes. | |
| And a huge amount of the UFO phenomenon is also joined with paranormal phenomena. | |
| But that's not really discussed in the field, which I feel is a failing. | |
| The likes of Skinwalker Ranch is another perfect example where you've got huge amounts of UFO activity, but it's outnumbered by the paranormal activity. | |
| It wasn't mentioned because they would have lost their funding. | |
| I think these days, I think we understand more about that, that there can be Places where people report aliens or UFOs, but also report other things. | |
| I mean, there is a lot of work, and I haven't read many or any reports of Bigfoot from Ireland. | |
| I'm sure there are, but, you know, those people who report Bigfoot sometimes say there is a paranormal connection and there is something about Bigfoot that also attracts and seems to harmonize with other aspects of the paranormal, which brings us back to this idea that you talked about, that perhaps paranormality is all connected. | |
| There aren't ghosts and UFOs and whatever. | |
| It's all linked. | |
| You know, there was a strange experiment that was done, and my friend, a researcher, Steve Muir, was talking to me about this, that there was a rudimentary version of an AI computer that was primed with a lot of the phenomena and asked to analyze this. | |
| And interestingly, the AI came back and said, this is from the same source. | |
| It all originates from the same source. | |
| So what sorts of, I mean, I don't expect you to know chapter and verse on this, Barry, but what sorts of, if you were doing an AI analysis of something that is nebulous by its very nature, and yet the AI analysis comes up with all of this stuff is connected, how does that happen? | |
| Well, if you look at the book itself, there are connections within that we go through, such as within the UFO community, you'll be well aware of missing time and the phenomena of that mischievous nature of the phenomena, abduction, mutilation, conscious connection is another thing. | |
| And interestingly, it can be summoned. | |
| A lot of the UFO phenomena can be summoned. | |
| A lot of people don't really think about that. | |
| And deception and interestingly, another one which is not often spoke about is the beings that appear, such as the Greys, have an aversion to iron. | |
| And when we take those and superimpose those onto the likes of earth spirits, it matches. | |
| And also jinn, it matches. | |
| Old gods, we're finding matches here as well. | |
| It keeps going back. | |
| What we're seeing is the mask in which it wishes to be interpreted by changes, but the phenomena in which it interacts with us remains the same. | |
| Barry Fitzgerald in Sligo is with us. | |
| Barry, we were talking about UFOs a moment ago in the general pursuit of the idea that perhaps all paranormal phenomena are somehow linked. | |
| And more and more people seem to be coming to that general view. | |
| There are people in this world who believe that UFOs and aliens can be summoned, that you can go to a place and if you use the correct protocol is what they call it, you can do that. | |
| Is anybody doing that in Ireland as far as you know? | |
| Oh, they have been. | |
| And the same can appear for across the board. | |
| The same type of process can attract all sorts of phenomena in through. | |
| And even in big industry, we find this aspect of summoning that can happen. | |
| For instance, if we consider back in 1968, the Douglas Aeronautics Company, in their memo, the A380, scientists and engineers were channeling to get ahead of current technological challenges. | |
| In fact, what they were doing were trying to get details about advanced engine design from a Ouija board. | |
| Oh, Lord, I didn't know this. | |
| Yeah, and it's there in black and white. | |
| The paperwork is there. | |
| I have it. | |
| And what do they think they were getting from that? | |
| And where do they think they were getting that from? | |
| Well, you see, this is where the alarm bells are going off. | |
| Whenever I'm reading this report, I've got a big red marker going, alert, alert, alert. | |
| The warnings were there within the report that they were out of their depth. | |
| Because within this, you see, one of the red flags, for instance, was communication with the alleged distant sources was always accomplished in English almost without exception. | |
| And the variety of topics that they covered included sociology, government, economics, warfare, crime, medicine, and engineering and science. | |
| This is also the same phenomena that was reported being given over. | |
| The same information was being given over, for instance, during the process of the oracles of Delphi. | |
| It's the same phenomena. | |
| It's just taking on a new jacket. | |
| Now, when they pressed the activity through the Ouija board on technical issues, remarkably, as always, communication broke down. | |
| Again, another red flag. | |
| If you want to understand the phenomena, try and get some clarity from it. | |
| The moment they started to press it, it started to fall apart. | |
| But the reports there, they were doing it. | |
| I hear what you say that. | |
| That is astonishing. | |
| And we just have to say, whenever we mention Ouija boards here on this show or any broadcast show for regulatory and common sense reasons, we are not here to advocate the use of Ouija boards. | |
| Neither myself nor you, Barry, nor anybody associated with this show, just, you know, before anybody says it. | |
| Okay, back to the book then. | |
| And this is the new book, The Deception of Gods and Men, which is available in various portals. | |
| Just look it up and you'll find it there. | |
| Talk about the collaboration between yourself and your co-author, Brian. | |
| Brian, my Celtic brother from Scotland. | |
| Brian Allen has been a paranormal investigator for decades, and he's well versed in a huge amount of the phenomena. | |
| And he also, he's head editor of the paranormal magazine online. | |
| And his work and experience within that, I felt Worked well within the deception of gods and men. | |
| And we joked back and forward when we were working on the book. | |
| And I felt that we gelled wonderfully well. | |
| And we were seeing the phenomena. | |
| His appreciation for it was slightly different than mine, the way that I was heading into it. | |
| But we were able to work together to bring this forward for other folks to read. | |
| And in itself, it's been a great experience to get that information out of the head, out of the heart, and onto paper. | |
| And we have to say that Brian Allen is a great guy. | |
| He was recently on my podcast. | |
| We were talking about his new book. | |
| Brian, here's a plug for it, The Book of Secrets. | |
| So I'm very pleased that you were collaborating with him because I think he would be a very good guy to collaborate with. | |
| Where should we go next with this? | |
| You discuss in the book, and I'm not, well, yes, I am sort of sure why it's there, but I was a little baffled at the beginning. | |
| You discussed the School experiments, which were done. | |
| I was just before we went on air reading on my phone an article about them from the East Anglian Daily Press. | |
| You know, they were very famous experiments, I think, in the 1990s, weren't they? | |
| That's right, yeah. | |
| Five years in the 1990s. | |
| And this is where a bunch of people, very well-meaning, certain degree of experience, got together and tried to make phenomena appear. | |
| They closed themselves off from the world and they tried to get, for example, they tried to get some kind of ghostly energy or energy of a paranormal sort to imprint itself on film. | |
| And they said they actually achieved that. | |
| Are you talking about the School experiments a lot? | |
| Yes, because the School experiment really was one of those fundamental things that needed to be understood because of the way the phenomena was coming through. | |
| They were successful. | |
| Because a lot of people say they weren't. | |
| I'm sorry to jump in there, but a lot of people say that there was a lack of scientific rigor about it all and you couldn't trust the findings. | |
| Sorry, I had to put that in there. | |
| That's okay. | |
| That's okay. | |
| But the phenomena that was coming through really displayed that anything can manifest. | |
| And that leaves this aspect of a nuts and bolts craft. | |
| It leaves it outside the doorway now, because when you're in that particular seance room, small craft were appearing. | |
| And not only that, but I have spoken to one of the sitters who was there when the hand went onto their arm and they felt the hand and followed it up to the elbow. | |
| There was nothing after that. | |
| Now, the thing that we have to pay attention to here is that although, in my opinion and many others, the skull experiments were successful in their own right. | |
| The problem being is that we were working to a set of rules that this other energy was putting down. | |
| Because when we go back 20 years into the Livermore laboratories, we see the same phenomena was appearing in broad daylight to the scientists there. | |
| Even the arm appeared in broad daylight. | |
| And at the end, instead of a hand, there was a claw that appeared within the scientist's room. | |
| Strange creatures were appearing in the scientist's room. | |
| So what did they think they were tapping into, Barry? | |
| What did they think they were tapping into? | |
| They didn't understand what they were tapping into. | |
| They themselves believed that they were crossing the realm into the world of the dead. | |
| But then there's a problem you see began to appear. | |
| And that in itself was in the entity of blue, which appeared within the school experiments. | |
| It was a grey alien. | |
| Why is a grey alien appearing in the salon's room? | |
| So this phenomena then started to raise questions. | |
| And that's what we wanted to do within the book. | |
| Okay, this phenomenon was happening. | |
| Let's analyze this phenomenon and start looking at it and see if there are any clues in which we can start pulling from that. | |
| And you're quite convinced that there was no, you know, what my grandmother had a little bit of the Irish in there, I think. | |
| You know, she'd have called it jiggery pokery. | |
| You're sure there was no jiggery pokery going on. | |
| For the most part, I got to say the early experiments, I can't comment toward the end because whenever I read the report of the Scroll experiment, I have it there on the shelf. | |
| It was a very, very thick book. | |
| And every aspect that went into those experiments was written down. | |
| And it was interesting to see that over the course at the beginning, the experiments were true and just, but at the end, the results that were coming out from the phenomena began to turn on its head. | |
| And there was contradictions began unfolding. | |
| And of course, then my alarm bells are still going. | |
| We should have been paying attention to these contradictions. | |
| But because a huge amount of time had elapsed, what had happened previously, months or years before, had been completely forgotten. | |
| When you say contradictions, just to clarify that point. | |
| The energy, the entity would have been claiming one thing, and then months later, it would have been turned on its head. | |
| For instance, I'll give you an example. | |
| Coming near the end of the process, they said that the communications had to stop. | |
| They were coming to an end. | |
| There was going to be no more communications from their spirit guides. | |
| That's all ended. | |
| The process has stopped. | |
| They will never hear from anyone else again that was involved within the SCOL experiments from the spiritual side. | |
| That included Blue, the grey alien. | |
| But that wasn't the case because I have it on good authority that when some of the people moved to Spain, Blue started making his appearance there as well. | |
| So again, we keep getting this contradiction, this aspect of deception that keeps coming through it. | |
| And it's something that needs to be challenged. | |
| We need to really grind down and figure out what is it that we're actually communicating with and understand that because that's based on trust, and it's something that we have to work on. | |
| We shouldn't give it away willy-nilly. | |
| And the skull experiments threw up a lot of questions, as we've said, as we've hinted here. | |
| Why has nobody tried to replicate them? | |
| Why has somebody not tried to, you know, if they were some people have issues in the way that they were conducted, okay, well, if they have issues in the way that they were conducted, maybe they can do them another way. | |
| But why has nobody tried, since they seem to be tapping into something, or they thought they were, why has nobody tried to do that since? | |
| Well, you arise at a problem there because whenever I, for instance, wanted to push that particular idea, I'm being told, oh, well, the energy doesn't want that. | |
| It's not ready to be filmed. | |
| So that in itself, there's two things going on there. | |
| Either I'm dealing with someone who's a fraud and doesn't want to be found out, or there's a problem with the phenomena itself in that it doesn't want to be found out. | |
| And the phenomenon thinks that this has gone as far as it should go and should go no further. | |
| But then there are other phenomena, surely. | |
| Surely that, you know, if you can't tap into that particular energy, then perhaps you can tap into another one. | |
| It seems strange that there hasn't been a continuation by somebody. | |
| There has been continuations, but not on a scientific basis. | |
| Because there have been other groups who have wanted to experiment with that and continue the process. | |
| But those particular reports are not being made public. | |
| Interesting. | |
| And because we've only got a couple of minutes left, Barry, sadly, what would you say the conclusion of the book is then? | |
| You know, that very important point that we mustn't lose here, because it's a thread that runs through all of it, that a lot of phenomena can be summoned, perhaps, may be connected, very important point. | |
| What would be the idea, the notion that you would want to leave my viewer with? | |
| Question everything. | |
| The phenomena that's coming through, make sure you establish and are happy with what's coming through. | |
| Always make sure and get that grounding. | |
| I'm not saying don't do it. | |
| By no means am I saying that because we'll not get anywhere if we don't. | |
| But when we do make contact, understand it and question it. | |
| And what about those who there are lots of amateur ghost hunting groups? | |
| A lot of them do very good work and they get themselves in the newspapers. | |
| Do you think some of these people might be biting off more than they can chew? | |
| We need to be very, very careful there because the phenomena itself is exceptionally good at utilizing and harnessing and manipulating people's ego. | |
| And through the ego, there is a severe problem there. | |
| Hence the word deception in the title of the book. | |
| Deception of gods and men. | |
| Check it out online. | |
| Barry Fitzgerald and of course Brian Allen involved in this. | |
| I got an anonymous text during all of this. | |
| The anonymous text, I wish you'd given your name, said, Barry's talking a lot of sense, which he did. | |
| Remember the old saying, says the anonymous texter, curiosity killed the cat. | |
| In other words, you know, if you go into these things, you don't know what particular box you're opening. | |
| That is very true. | |
| I often got a warning when I wrote one of my other books, The Influence, don't become too bright or they see you. | |
| That's a good point to leave it, Barry. | |
| Thank you very much. | |
| Give my love to Sligo. | |
| I've got to see that place one of these days, preferably in a howling gale. | |
| An old friend of the unexplained, Barry Fitzgerald in Sligo, Ireland on a fantastic connection from there, talking about various items of paranormality in the way that only he can. | |
| And before that, of course, you heard Dr. Simon Clark from the University of Reading on that tens of thousands of years old bug and what its revival may mean. | |
| Before that, Micah Hanks, old friend of this show, from the debrief on the new UFO archive. | |
| More great guests in the pipeline here at the home of the unexplained. | |
| So until we meet again, my name is Howard Hughes. | |
| This has been The Unexplained online. | |
| And please, whatever you do, stay safe, stay calm. | |
| And above all else, please stay in touch. | |
| Thank you very much. | |
| Take care. |