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Aug. 30, 2022 - The Unexplained - Howard Hughes
32:49
Edition 660 - Calvine And Skinwalker
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Across the UK, across continental North America, and around the world on the internet, by webcast and by podcast, my name is Howard Hughes, and this is The Unexplained.
Well, wherever you are, I hope that everything is good with you.
It's still a little warm here in London, but we are definitely heading into September now, and Christmas is only three months away.
And once again, we ask ourselves that question that I will not dwell on.
Where's this year gone?
And what exactly did I do with it?
I don't know, really.
A bit of work.
A bit of sitting here recording podcasts.
And that'll be it then.
We're looking forward to 2023 and whatever that may deliver.
Okay.
Thank you very much for all of your emails.
Please keep those coming.
I get to see them, of course, as they come in.
You can email me through the website theunexplained.tv, designed and created by Adam.
You can also contact me through the Facebook page, the official Facebook page of The Unexplained with Howard Hughes.
This edition of the show, a couple of things from my recent TV shows.
One of them is the Calvine UFO story.
Now, this is a famous photograph.
In fact, one of a number of famous photographs that were taken by a couple of guys who were out walking in Scotland about three decades ago.
And the photograph purports to show some kind of UFO being followed or chased or shadowed by what may be a military aircraft.
Fascinating photograph.
The pictures, the negatives, went to a newspaper.
And then they were requested, the story goes by the Ministry of Defense for analysis or whatever.
Then they disappear for years, but one of them, because of the work of Dr. David Clark from Sheffield Hallam University, who you'll hear on this edition first, and I know I put this out separately, but we're going to play the conversation, six minutes of it here with him.
He's the man who tracked down a photograph because, of course, as I always thought, somebody kept a copy.
A former RAF press officer in Scotland, now 83 years of age, has a copy of one of the pictures, and that's the thing that made the newspapers.
Dr. David Clark actually went out there, knocked on doors, found the man, found the picture, and that's the story.
So we'll hear from him first.
Then we'll get Nick Pope's thoughts about that.
Of course, Nick Pope was working for the Ministry of Defense, is now an independent commentator on all of these things based in the United States.
We'll hear from him second.
The rest of the show will be taken up with my conversation with Chrissy Newton from the Debrief website, one of our favorite guests on the TV show.
And Chrissy will be here on the podcast this time talking about the ongoing deep mystery of the Skin Walker Ranch, which is something I know that you've been asking me to discourse about a lot here.
So that's what's going to be on this show.
Not going to waste any more time.
Just to thank you again for being in touch.
And when you get in touch, please tell me who you are, where you are, and how you use this show.
Item one, Dr. David Clark.
This is my conversation with him about the Calvine UFO photo.
Dave, first of all, congratulations.
Are you surprised, as I was gobsmacked, that only two newspapers in this country, The Sun and the Mail, and nobody else so far has picked up on what is, for you and the world, I think, a pretty damn big story?
No, it doesn't surprise me at all, actually, because since leaving journalism, I just can't believe how long it takes some media organizations to pick up on this kind of story.
I can't completely understand why.
It's just that there are so few journalists left.
The newspaper I used to work at had, I don't know, sort of over 100 members of staff when I was there in the mid-90s, and now it's down to less.
You could count them on your hand.
So I think it's simply that it's far easier.
Yeah, it's far easier just to copy stuff that's coming through on Twitter and not actually do any proper journalism and ask any questions like I'm able to do because I do it in a sort of freelance capacity.
And you can give it the time.
Last time I did a conversation about this case, which was about four months ago, I remember ending it, ironically enough, with the words, somebody must be sitting on this picture somewhere.
You can't tell me that somebody doesn't have a copy of this.
You found the picture and the person.
How?
By old-fashioned shoe leather foot-indoor journalism, the sort of thing that I was taught as a trainee in the 1980s, that you're like a dog with a bone.
If, like you've just said, Howard, you know, that someone must be sitting on that photograph, then what's the best way to find it?
Is it to sort of go online and spend all day on Twitter?
Or is it actually to drive to Scotland, knock on doors, speak to people, real human beings, and eventually you will hit pay dirt?
And that's what I did.
The former MOD employee who had this picture was told, don't worry about it, London will deal with this.
That is after the negatives of the picture disappeared following them being handed over to the Daily Record newspaper and the trail goes cold after that.
So he was told, London will deal with this.
Now he's 83 and he's decided whatever the consequences, which I'm sure there won't be any, he wants to come forward and talk about it.
Well, he was happy to talk to me about it.
He doesn't want to talk to anyone else because he wants the whole thing to go away.
But he is, after all these years, he is keen as I am for the truth to come out.
Whatever that truth is, I mean, in his words are, you know, the photograph shows it's either an exceptionally good hoax or it's the real thing.
And I'm not sure what he means by the real thing, but I agree with him.
If it is a hoax, then those two chefs who took the photograph have fooled the RAS finest, you know, Jarek, the best in the business, apparently, the photo analyst.
They've fooled them, they've fooled the MOD.
And to me, as a journalist, that's as good a story as it being, you know, aliens or secret aircraft.
You know, to me, it's the story that's important, not whether it's true or false, you know, genuine or not, et cetera, et cetera, and people's reactions to the story.
The MOD wasn't going to release this picture, was it for another 50 years?
Certainly for a period of decades.
No, well, that's not exactly true Because there's a lot of false information going around on the internet about this.
Because, yeah, they obviously had the photographs and the negatives.
What became of them?
They say that they returned them to the daily record.
What happened to them after that is a mystery because they were never returned, according to the information that I've got, to the person who took the photograph, on whose trail I now am trying to find him as we speak.
I can't really say more than that because we're at a very crucial stage.
But I'm pretty sure that the negatives, if they were returned to the Daily Record, they didn't go any further than that, shall we say?
Must be in a metal filing cabinet somewhere.
There's a book in this for you, Dave, isn't there?
Yeah, I've been thinking about that, actually, but I'm not sure I want to write it in a sort of, you know, the sort of straightforward investigative way.
I think it'd make a quite a nice sort of, you know, sort of like imaginative non-fiction, almost like a novel, because that's what I feel like I've been living on the set of the exiles for the past 12 months.
So just in our last seconds here, because this is a sound conversation and, you know, our time has to be limited because of this.
Whatever this was, if it was from here or if it was a, you know, if it was the Aurora spy plane in development, you know, taking a flight, whatever, the process alone of what happened to the picture, what happened to the people, is worth that book alone.
Absolutely.
Yeah.
I mean, if this was just a fake, and as a lot of the keyboard warriors are now saying on Twitter, you know, it was a stone thrown into a pond, or that's the best one.
I love that one.
Or it was something dangling from the tree, then those guys managed to bring down a whole tornado on their heads in that, you know, they had all the sorts of the men in black descending on the hotel where they were working and warnings not to talk to the media and everything.
So, I mean, so if the whole thing was a joke, a prank that got out of hand, then I think they live to regret it.
And that might explain why they haven't come forward for 30 years.
Dr. David Clark, congratulations to him for actually locating that photograph.
And I hope that he and it get the publicity that they deserve.
Dr. David Clark, of course, is from Sheffield Hallam University.
Now, let's get the thoughts on all of this of Nick Pope, who appeared on my TV show recently.
We're talking about the Calvine UFO photograph.
The Daily Star put it this way, anyway.
This is the story, as summarized very succinctly by the Daily Star.
The best UFO image ever was kept out of the public eye by dark forces in the government fighting to keep it a secret.
Two chefs walking in the highlands took photographs of a ship, nothing like they'd seen ever before.
And the rest of the story, of course, I told you.
Nick Pope is now an independent investigator based in the United States, was at the Ministry of Defense.
One of his remits, we are told, was investigating, certainly helping to collate UFO reports.
He's online to us now.
Nick, long time no talk.
How are you?
I'm great.
Thank you, Howard.
Good to be on the show.
I don't know the quality marks out of 10 of my summation of the story there, but I think that's basically it.
Some photographs taken by a couple of innocent people whose names remain redacted for the moment and possibly for decades to come.
Those photographs go to a newspaper, then the MOD requests them and they disappear.
What more do we know?
Well, quite a lot of the details are now lost in the midst of time.
I mean, what I can say is this, and of course, the case is a real blast from the past for me personally, because for many years, when I was investigating UFOs at the MOD, a poster-sized enlargement of one of the best of the six photos that we received was actually on our office wall until my head of division took it down,
having convinced himself that it probably showed some sort of secret prototype aircraft or drone.
So this is a, you know, there's a lot of controversy about this.
And still, I should say that the photograph that former RAF press officer Craig Lindsay has given to the civilian ufologists, the Ministry of Defense has not commented on the provenance of that picture.
So for the moment, I'm going to have to follow that policy too and neither confirm nor deny that this was the infamous picture on our office wall.
Nick, I understand that.
That adds to the intrigue of it.
But, you know, it was on your wall for a reason, wasn't it?
There must have been something that made that special.
The reason it was on our office wall was really a reminder to us all.
I mean, we investigated about two or 300 reports each year.
This was a reminder that while most of those sightings turned out to be misidentifications, that a small proportion of the cases were worth our time.
And of course, the point about these photos was that they were looked at by ourselves, of course, in MOD headquarters, also by the Defense Intelligence Staff, and by intelligence community imagery analysts in JARIC, which is the Joint Air Reconnaissance Intelligence Center.
And we all concurred that this was not a hoax.
This was not a mountaintop, a reflection.
I've seen so much back and forward between the skeptics and the believers this week on all this.
This was assessed by intelligence community experts as being a genuine article, somewhere between maybe 70 and 100 feet across.
So why were we not told more about this before now?
I mean, it's now 30 odd years ago.
And these people who took the picture, their names are being kept out of the limelight.
Presumably over these years, they wanted it that way, or maybe they had no choice.
Why the necessity for this degree of secrecy until now, until the thing is actually leaked out?
Two things here in parallel.
Firstly, of course, the date of the sighting itself, August 4th, 1990, two days after Saddam Hussein invaded Kuwait.
Obviously, there were a lot of things going on, military preparations, particularly special forces.
the suspicion, a lot of people at the MOD thought that this was, as I say, some sort of secret prototype aircraft.
And clearly, even though no definitive conclusion was reached about the identity of this craft, a lot of people said, Well, look, it's probably either way, something we shouldn't be talking about.
And, you know, the embarrassment factor, something in our airspace that we can't identify, military jets making a number of low-level passes.
Nobody wants to say, we don't know what it is.
The second thing is related but separate, and it's the identities of the witnesses.
That has been held back till 2076.
And that's, you know, a lot of people have, yeah, a lot of people have read a lot into that.
But frankly, it's because when people reported these things to us at the Ministry of Defense, they did so on the assumption that we would protect their identities.
And they didn't necessarily want somebody from the local UFO club knocking on their door, which by all intents and purposes is kind of what's happening now with these civilian ufologists going around trying to out people.
Were the negatives returned to the Daily Record?
They were, weren't they?
The Ministry of Defence's position, and this was confirmed in Parliament, was that the negatives were returned to the newspaper.
Now, whether that's true or not, I don't know, but that's certainly the official line from the Ministry of Defence.
Right.
And would those return negatives have been put under some kind of official restraint, maybe something like a D-notice?
There is suspicion that a D-notice was used, but it's also possible that the statement that the negatives were returned is not correct.
And you know, there's another theory out there, which is worth people's time.
If you ever want to kill a story, one way to do it is to actually buy the photo yourself, and therefore you're buying the rights, the copyright.
And that's that.
I'm not saying that was done here, but it is something in the toolkit.
So maybe somebody has the rights and we don't know about it.
Just in a couple of seconds, are we going, do you think, to be hearing more about this?
Or do we have to wait till 2076?
We are definitely going to hear some more.
Trouble is a lot of people are going to kind of jump on the bandwagon here.
It's going to be very difficult to sort out the truth from the fiction.
Nick Pope from his home in America.
And before that, Dr. David Clark from Sheffield Hallam University.
I am certain before this year is out, we will hear more about the Calvine UFO photograph or photographs.
What a mystery.
And what a fascinating story that is.
Next up, a conversation about the mysterious Skinwalker Ranch in Utah, which seems to be a kind of central location for all kinds of weirdness.
Everything from UFOs to strange electromagnetic anomalies to Bigfoot.
It all seems to be based and centered there.
Many people have had weird experiences there for decades on this ranch in the middle of nowhere in Utah.
Chrissy Newton has been considering this, and this is my conversation from the TV show with her.
You've recently done a presentation about this where you've talked with George Knapp for one and Colin Kelleher for the other about this.
And, you know, there's people, I think they see the TV shows, you know, the dramatized TV shows about the Skinwalker Ranch and the weird stuff that happens there.
I don't think people understand entirely what this place is and why we're interested in it.
So maybe you can explain those two things, Chrissy, for starters.
Well, I think nobody knows what it really is still, to be honest.
And we're still trying to figure that out.
And for people who don't know about Skinwalker Ranch, it is one of the most paranormal hotspots in North America.
And right now we know in the world, but there are other places like Skinwalker where it has really high paranormal activity.
They said that there has allegedly been UFO sightings.
There's portals that are happening on the ranch within different homesteads.
There are witnesses of Bigfoot happening.
So there's lots of weird things that are going on.
And at this point in time, you know, we look at Brennan Frugel, who it's Fugal story, who is doing Skinwalker right now is doing the TV show with History Channel about Skinwalker and who owns the ranch.
But previously who owned the ranch was a billionaire named Robert Bigelow, who, yes, exactly, who did a research report in the 90s called the NIDS Report, the National Institute for Discovery Science.
And so he's the one who really started looking into Skinwalker and released, you know, Column Color, Dr. Column Cullohair and George Knapp, who people might be familiar with, released a book, The Path of the Skinwalker, and looked at some of these phenomenon of the NIDS report.
So I spoke with Dr. Columhare and George Knapp about a 90s NID report that was private that wasn't released to the public that I ended up getting my hands on too.
Right.
This is a remarkable place and everybody's interested in it now.
Bigelow, the previous owner, is a fascinating character because he was involved in all sorts of things, wasn't he?
He was involved in developing aircraft and all sorts of stuff that he was involved in that very much played into what this location is.
Yeah, a major interest in aerospace engineering.
Bigelow's story is really interesting because he found his riches as a billionaire starting with hotels.
So I believe it was budget hotels.
And then he didn't tell his wife or anybody that he was really interested in this topic.
And he raised a lot of money and then looked at getting, was getting government contracts as well in the later 90s and then ended up buying Skinwalker Ranch, who he doesn't own now, but really, yeah, started this whole craze around it.
And it's pretty interesting, the details that have come out of it.
And we still don't know if it's true or not.
And we're trying to do, well, I think that one shouldn't say myself, but a lot of people are trying to do research on what it actually is.
And the fascinating thing for Bigelow, for you, for me, for everybody who's ever taken any kind of interest in this is how can one place be a sort of central portal, you know, kind of ground zero center for Bigfoot UFOs, time slips, lights in the sky?
I mean, you name a phenomenon and somebody's reported it there.
How can that be?
I don't know.
And I think that's, again, that's a question that they're answering.
There are other places within New Mexico that have these type of paranormal activity that's really, really high.
Some of the hypothesis that I've looked into, you know, why we're seeing high UAP activity is probably because of the nuclear fallout in the early 50s.
Then, as we know, in the early 50s, they were testing in Nevada, they were testing nuclear bombs on a high level.
And we're thinking that some of that radiation ended up moving over into the Uinta Basin is still there to this day.
We're also seeing that because of different radiation or just anything that's probably happened over the course of years within the Uinta Basin, we're seeing that there's a lot of health concerns too with locals.
There's lots of brain tumors that are happening with children.
There was at one moment a really high still birth rate.
We don't know if there's a correlation between that.
And when I was in Skinwalker Ranch or around it in the UITA Basin, that was something that I looked into and talked to the locals and still will be looking into because it's a concern to me.
You know, stuff that's happening that's paranormal, obviously it's important that we figure that out.
But if it's affecting people, if it's paranormal or it's anything else from environmental issues, if it's pollution, we need to look into that because it's affecting people within that region.
And it's because it's both, Chrissy, paranormal and for those people, physical.
You know, there are so many different aspects to this.
And just in the seconds we've got before we've got to take commercials here, there's a great quote from your conversation with George Knapp.
And I wrote it down verbatim.
And he said, there is no plan for probing a paranormal hotspot.
It's like poking the bear.
In other words, you don't know what the bear is going to do.
You don't.
And that's the challenge with Skinwalker.
They've said the owners previously said that you weren't, you shouldn't dig, that you would disrupt whatever the paranormal was happening or whatever it was.
There's all these types of rules of things that you can't do on Skinwalker.
And yeah, they say the more that you probe into it and the more you try to tape the phenomenon, the more, the deeper you try to look into it, the harder it gets at even catching up.
Because essentially, there are those who say, and it's in your conversations that comes out, that whenever somebody goes in to investigate whatever it is, it knows.
Skinwalker Ranch, Utah, weirdest place on the planet.
I don't know.
You haven't seen my apartment, but it is a strange location where over the years a lot of different stuff has been reported.
And I gave you a list of some of the things.
That ain't all of them.
Chrissy Newton's been investigating and is continuing to.
She's from the debrief, is a friend of this show.
She's online to us.
There are a number of hypotheses, aren't there, Chrissy, that you have tried to look behind.
There is the idea, as you said, of radiation, some kind of pre-existing radiation that has come from nuclear tests in the past that might give people issues, obviously, tumors of the brain and other things.
Mass hysteria being another thing.
Hallucinogens in the water being one suggestion.
I mean, is that seriously being regarded as a possibility, as a cause?
Hallucinogens that might have been released into the water somehow?
Yeah.
Dr. Colin Culliher did his report in the early 90s, and he looked at those four different hypothesis.
So one of them was temporal lobe epilepsy, looking at people that are having epileptic moments and maybe having delusions.
There was paraphrinia, which is again, seeing delusions and it's a mental health disorder, can be associated with schizophrenia.
Then we also had, yeah, allergens being in the air.
It could be in anything, looking from plants that are creating this, that are creating some hallucinogenics.
So there was lots of different hypothesis that he had, but yeah, hallucinogenics would be one of them.
And I really thought about that too.
It kind of makes sense when you're looking at all the different variety of plants.
And when I actually looked up the Uinta Air, the in the Uinta basin, there are plants that can cause hallucinogenics.
So they are there.
So it is, it was smart that Dr. Columhair looked at that.
And but when they looked at those different hypothesis, none of them actually came to a conclusion that any of them would be correct.
But I've been looking further into it.
And my concern again is looking at, yeah, the people.
And when you're having nuclear fallout and you're having reactions and there's still high levels of radiation in different regions.
And we see in Skinwalker Ranch that we know of from the show and from the past that the radiation levels just kind of change and they can be in one area for a very short period of time and then they can be somewhere else.
So it's really hard to detect where they are.
And I believe that's what Dr. Travis Taylor and the rest of his team at Skinwalker is doing right now is looking into that and obviously so many other things.
What do you know about the history of military involvement in that area?
Because there's talk and it comes up in your conversations of directed energy weapons, for example, which is real prime conspiracy theory territory.
But what do you know about the history of any military involvement on that site or around it?
Yeah, there's been tons of military action in regards to around the Uinta Basin and around that area.
I personally don't know enough about the government stuff that's gone on as much.
I know that there has been obviously conversations with ATIP and there has been conversations that NIDS was working then or not NIDS, sorry, Robert Brigulo was working with the government at one point in time and collecting data with MUFON and Skinwalker Ranch was part of that.
So there has been government connections and CIA connections to Skinwalker Ranch.
But I think as we're going on, we're seeing that all of that stuff keeps revolving.
And we see that we get ATIP looking at it.
We're looking at the UFO task force that is looking at these stories.
So as we go on, we're seeing more and more programs have actually been researching things like Skinwalker and other areas.
But from what I know, I've never worked internally at the government.
So I'm only following what the narratives that we get from obviously books like this and then along with what the media is coming out with.
So we try, we probe as much as possible with the debrief, but sometimes it's hard.
And we'll learn of more programs, I believe, as we go along.
And to add to the mix, there are the cattle mutilations.
Now, we have those here in the United Kingdom in places like the eastern part of Yorkshire that Paul Sinclair looks into.
And, you know, these are the sort of Things that Linda Moulton Howe has been reporting on since the 1970s.
But you tell a story of a calf, for example, that was found perfectly dissected, only the abdominal cavity empty was to be seen and the ribs pointing upwards.
And, you know, the speculation is always: what could possibly have done that in that surgical way and why?
Yeah, direct energy weapons, you know, they would people might say, could that possibly do that?
But it can.
It was perfectly dissected.
And so there's different conversations within the book within Path to the Skinwalker.
You're seeing that some of these animals might have been picked up.
You're having animal cattle that were there in a moment.
And then when you look back, they're entirely gone, but then they'll show up hours later and have fully dissected.
So you're seeing that these things are happening and they're perfect.
Like the dissection is perfect.
So they're thinking that maybe it was some form of direct energy weapon, but that wasn't actually a full conclusion though.
They didn't come to a conclusion on that.
So we don't know.
And Pete Pickup was an investigator there as well that worked with the NIDS and did multiple documents around cattle mutilation.
So it was very, very consistent at the ranch.
I don't know how much it is consistent right now, to be honest.
But in the early 90s, when they were looking into this, yeah, they were finding cattle mutilations and the people that owned the ranch were speaking about it too.
Over the years, there have been attempts to send remote viewers.
I think Joe McMonagall went there and I think various others have and psychics to the site.
Why would those people, do you think, be deployed at a place like that?
Yeah, so Dr. Colin Colliher called that revolutionary science in the back of the book.
He actually speaks about what other people could be doing that are not considered science and we would call it pseudoscience now.
So bringing people that are meditating, let's say doing meditation, any form of seance he even suggested.
So looking at, you know, working with maybe the phenomenon and unfortunately maybe disrupting it, but also then seeing how it reacts to it.
So somebody did go on to Skinwalker Ranch in the early 90s and asked if they could meditate.
And when they ended up meditating there, ended up disturbing whatever that phenomenon is.
And the man had a horrible experience and left frightened and probably had major trauma based out of it, I would imagine.
So what Dr. Colum Cullharris says, you know, we need to look at different types of science or revolutionary science and think outside the box and look at using what we have now, obviously, as science and what we know, but being able to use other different types of forms of pseudoscience maybe to potentially find out and look into it a little bit deeper.
Right.
I suppose one of the answers to this would be to get a team of people to stay there, to camp there or live there.
There are properties on the site, aren't there?
To live there for a period, maybe like a year, if that was safe to do.
I don't know how easy it is to access or to get access to it.
Is that a possibility that that might be a way forward?
Yeah, I believe that people have lived on the ranch.
There's somebody that lives there now.
There are multiple different homesteads that have had.
I believe it's Homestead 2 has the most paranormal activity.
Allegedly, a portal is opened up there, but nobody lives in them because those are dilapidated.
But there is an actual home in a residence that caretakers of the actual ranch live in.
So I'm not sure of their names, but there's a male and a female, and they end up living there and take caring of it.
And they've had multiple different paranormal activity in their own house.
So somebody is living there and people are living 24-7.
They say, and what I've heard from Michelle Minor, who's a former employee, she said the longer that she lived and stayed at the ranch, the longer it kept calling her into it, which I thought was really interesting.
It was, she said that when she first went there, it became a little bit more of a, it was a happy place.
And then for her, it didn't really turn into it in the end.
She ended up leaving the ranch because she had some other experiences that weren't that positive.
So, you know, it's hard.
And I think that scientists and, you know, Dr. Travis Taylor has been living there too on an office.
He's recording and filming for the History Channel.
So lots of people are doing it.
But I think when you have an idea of how you want to capture this phenomenon in the ranch, it's not always, it doesn't always play out the way you think it's going to play out.
And in the couple of minutes that we've got, just to speculate around this one, really, Chrissy, you know, how real, what level of reality about these things is there?
If it is something that's generated by electromagnetism, for example, what we've seen with the Havana syndrome, which is supposedly directed energy at people around diplomatic missions and the effects that that has on people, what I'm saying is that how can we know how many of these experiences are actual solid three-dimensional reality and how many of them might be caused by something influencing the minds of people who go there or live there?
It's true.
And that's really hard to distinguish.
And I think that's what's happening is seeing if people, and this is why Dr. Colum Collahare did his report, is seeing if people are having some kind of mental health or anything else that might be creating these types of delusions if they are or images that they're seeing.
Dr. Columb Columhair himself said he watched a Bigfoot walk out of a portal.
Like those are pretty solid claims when you're making stuff like that.
And the challenge is you have to look at those stories and try to measure it.
But to me, stories are not full evidence, but they are looking and telling something that, you know, might actually be there.
And we have to keep looking at it.
Do we know if it's real?
It's a really hard answer.
It's a hard answer to say yes or no to because we're still trying to figure that out.
It's a good place to park this brief conversation, Chrissy.
Thank you for doing it one week later than advertised.
If people want to see your two hours of conversations, where would they go?
Yeah, for sure.
They can follow me at Chrissy Newton on Twitter and then on Instagram.
It's at being ChrissyNewton, or they can go to the YouTube debrief channel and check us out there.
There is another debrief channel.
We are the science, tech, and defense one.
So don't forget that.
You cover the whole gamut, as they say.
Chrissy Newton from the debrief, lovely to see you.
Thank you very much indeed.
Chrissy Newton from the Debrief website.
I thoroughly recommend It and her.
Before that, Dr. David Clark and Nick Pope talking about the Calvine UFO photograph.
More great guests in the pipeline here at the home of the unexplained online.
So, until we meet next here, my name is Howard Hughes.
This has been The Unexplained, and please, whatever you do, stay safe, stay calm, and above all, please stay in touch.
Thank you very much.
Take care.
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