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June 20, 2022 - The Unexplained - Howard Hughes
01:03:36
Edition 644 - Caroline Cory
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Across the UK, across continental North America, and around the world on the internet, by webcast and by podcast, my name is Howard Hughes and this is The Unexplained.
The reason I said it like that is that I'm sitting here in the heat again.
It is a sweltering early evening here in London town and, you know, at least it's completely quiet around me for not the best of reasons, I have to say, because this is one of the days when the United Kingdom's train system on which cities like London tend to depend has come to a halt because there's a series of strikes here.
So that's why things are a little quieter.
I haven't got the railway rumbling by, but there were earlier today a lot more cars.
But strange times in which we live in the heat at the moment, and who knows, it'll probably be torrential rain by tomorrow.
Now, got a very, very interesting topic for you this time.
And it is another UFO-linked topic, but this is an investigation that's been done in what I think is a very unique, fresh, and different way.
So I'm going to talk to you about that in just a moment.
Thank you very much for all of your emails and communications.
Please keep those coming.
And don't forget, of course, if you can make a donation to keep the online version of the show going, which is where it all started nearly 17 years ago now, then please go to my website, designed and created by Adam.
It is theunexplained.tv.
And there is a donation link there if you can.
And don't worry if you can't, because I know these are hard times.
But if you possibly can to help me to keep going with all of this, that'd be great.
And there's also an email link if you want to send me suggestions or thoughts about shows and stuff like that.
And I'm very, very grateful.
And of course, I do, as I always say, but it's true, get to see each and every email as it comes in here.
Right, back to the subject of this.
This is Caroline Corey.
Now, she is more than a filmmaker.
She is an experiencer of things.
And she has made a great documentary, I think, called A Tear in the Sky, which sort of centers around the Tic-Tac UFOs, but tackles the entire thing from a totally different perspective with a lot of real science in ways you're going to be shocked, I think, to discover have not really been done before.
That's the great interest of this thing.
And if you wonder why, over this year of 2022, I've done so many ufological podcasts.
Well, number one, I'm really interested in this.
But number two, I really feel in my gut at this stage of my life, when there are more years behind me than I have in front of me, like many people, I think we're getting to the verge and the brink of something.
And that's why I'm doing this stuff, because I believe that with all the developments and the sightings and the revelations and the hearings, I think something's going to come out.
I may be wrong.
You know, I've lived my life at times being wrong.
But I think on this occasion, I may be proved right.
And let's hope I live to see it.
Thank you very much for your communications.
Please, when you get in touch, tell me who you are, where you are, and how you use this show.
Lovely to hear from so many people who I haven't heard from before, but they've been listening to the show for years.
Just goes to show what a worldwide family this is.
Okay.
All right.
Now in the heat, here in my little place as I record this, let's cross to California now, where I guess the weather is always lovely.
And let's speak with Caroline Corey about her documentary, A Tear in the Sky.
Caroline, thank you very much for coming on.
Howard, thanks so much for having me.
Now, Caroline, you know, you are a very intriguing person because I've read a couple of biographies or biographical pieces about you, but you're a rare thing.
I thought when I first was introduced to you and this piece of work we're going to talk about, that maybe you were a filmmaker who decided to just look at this topic.
But you're more than that, I'll argue.
You're an experiencer of things.
Yeah, exactly.
That's how I got into this whole subject and in filmmaking actually about this subject, because I started having experiences as a child.
You know, I would come in contact with, you know, kind of information and energies and I would see things before they happened.
You know, that sort of experiences that got me thinking, how is it possible?
You know, we're obviously more than just physical beings.
And so I got into the field of consciousness.
I knew it had to do with the mechanics of consciousness.
And of course, 20 years later, studying, researching that subject, I also having my personal encounters and sightings, I realized that this is all real.
I wasn't crazy.
I wasn't making this up.
And so I started working with scientists and I realized that I needed to make films about anything that's paranormal, you know, because to me it was normal and to many, many people around the world.
And so that kind of got me interested in filmmaking about these types of subjects.
So you were different from many other people who do these things, you know, not exclusively so, but I would say different from most people who do these things.
You were a clairvoyant kid, you were saying.
Yes, yes.
I would see someone and I kind of could feel what was happening with them, what was going to happen the next day, you know, what was troubling them, things like that.
But I didn't take it seriously.
I didn't take myself seriously.
I didn't think it was anything special, to be honest.
I just thought everybody did that.
But it was more as I grew up, you know, as I grew up, I was like, wait, you know, that's not as common as I think.
Or maybe it is, but people just don't know, you know, it is common or it's happening.
So I started to study, you know, to research that subject in depth because I realized, you know, meeting so many people from around the world that there is a phenomenon.
We just don't understand it.
And there is also a science.
It's not the mainstream science, but we're just not there yet.
And that's the reason why I think there's so much to explore in this field of non-physical experiences.
And so, yeah, so my introduction to this whole subject, whether it's UFOs or extraterrestrial life or anything beyond the physical world, came from direct experiences and working with so many people, as opposed to being an outsider, a researcher, just gathering data and information from other people.
Right.
And the springboard for the piece of work that we're about to talk about here, which is your documentary, hasn't been out for too long called A Tear in the Sky.
And we'll explain that title a little later because it all becomes clear towards the end of it.
The springboard for it is the Tic Tac UFOs, the Princeton Nimitz sightings that were reported around the world, still causing a stir, still being added to now.
We're still hearing from the witnesses.
That was the springboard for this piece of work.
But in your life, these things were always there.
Yeah, absolutely.
I had several sightings of some of them quite recent, actually, just before this film, that got me even more convinced that we had to be talking about the subject, especially, as you know, since 2017, even the mainstream media has been covering the subject.
So I knew it was timely.
And to be honest, I did not want to make that story, the Tic Tac videos, for people who are still not familiar with it.
It's the Navy Tic Tac anomalies that looked like, you know, flying in the sky that were released publicly in 2017.
And so I actually didn't want to go there because it had been covered in ufology.
But what happened was when I met Kevin Day and he told me his story, I was so touched that I thought, wait a minute, we have to include that perspective as well, even though this is a scientific approach.
Right.
And I think that was very astute of you because what comes out from this, and we'll get into all of this detail as we talk, but it is a very human story.
Those people, and we haven't heard that much about them and how they felt.
We've heard about them and what they might have experienced, but we haven't heard about them and what they felt.
And my heart, and we'll talk about this as I say as we go on, my heart went out to Kevin D. He was on board one of those ships, the Princeton, I think, wasn't he, or was he on the Mimitz?
Well, it is the same.
One is the ship and one is the air carrier.
Right.
So that's why they were working together on those exercises there.
But, you know, his life was absolutely ripped to pieces by this.
And I had no conception that the people who experience these things, because they're at sea and they're in the military and they're fairly hardened and trained, I had no idea that on a human level, what they went through all those years ago and right up to today had materially affected them.
Yeah, exactly.
And that's the reason why I ended up including that story, because, you know, it had been covered, like you're saying, what they experienced many times in other documentaries, but I had never seen them express those emotions and all the personal stories in that way.
And so when he told me a story, I really, really wanted to include it.
And as you saw in the film, it is just so, so touching.
And what ended up happening was, so I thought, okay, you know, this had never been talked about in this way, this human way.
And it wasn't really a focus to try to recapture the exact same thing.
But we ended up doing just that, you know, which was very interesting how it kind of their story came full circle at the end.
And the really intelligent thing I thought, and it really did make an impact on me, was that whereas most documentaries who would speak to these people, and you can get these people for interview, you know, if you try hard enough, these people do sometimes put themselves up for interview.
But what you did, it seems to me, is that you left the camera running so that when they talked about how they felt, and like I say, we've got to talk more about Kevin Day in a little while because I feel for this man and what he went through.
You left the camera running and then you could see the tears in the eyes and the real raw emotion of what it was like to go through something that you cannot really rationalize, to know what you've seen, and yet for other people perhaps that you work with or you encounter, for them to trivialize it for you when it's affected you so deeply at such a core level.
So I think that was a very clever part and to team that with the appliance of science, as we say over here, I think was a pretty good approach.
So from me, and I've seen a lot of these documentaries, I've never made one, I'm going to give you 10 out of 10 for the way that you've gone about this.
Oh, thank you.
That was exactly the idea.
You know, I didn't want to make a very kind of cold scientific, you know, thing without, I mean, the reason why we are making, I am making these films is to really to try to understand the phenomenon, but also to how it's affecting us.
I mean, we are trying to figure out our reality, you know, how we live, who are we, where do we fit in the cosmic map, you know, of the universe, who else is out there, and how reality is affecting us.
I mean, at the end of the day, that's what life is about.
And so if, you know, I don't bring that human element, it's almost, to me, it just doesn't really, it's not complete as a filmmaker.
So I'm glad you're pointing this out.
And I thought it was a great balance As well.
And it's something that you don't see, and that's why I would recommend this documentary to people.
Okay.
We know from just looking at the newspapers that the intensity of reports, the regularity of the reports, the depth of the reports, and the seriousness with which those reports are now being treated.
All of this has gone up gear in the last few years.
In fact, since that 2017 publication that you talked about that everybody knew about.
So people are less afraid to speak about what they've experienced.
And I thought another great gambit that you used, another great thing about your documentary is the fact that you start with a Voxpop.
Voxpop for, I'm sure everybody in the world knows this now, but just in case, Voxpop is where you go out and ask people what they've experienced and what they think.
And you start with one of those.
And here's just a little tiny taste of this.
And the point that we're illustrating here is that so many people have had these experiences.
And when somebody comes up to them in the street, they're not afraid to talk about them.
Here we go.
dark hovering object above a bridge that we were coming back from and it almost looked like a An unidentified object.
It was coming in very fast.
It was staying perfectly still and stationary in the sky for about four to five minutes until it started to move.
And it was so distrawful and it was really weird.
To this day, I don't know what it is.
Made a hard right turn, went up like 90 degrees.
They figured that it was traveling at something like 800 miles an hour and then they changed formation.
First it was vertical, then it went lateral, and then they changed to like a rectangle shape, but that one always stayed away from the others.
Nice way of starting it, I think, Caroline.
And unless I was completely wrong, you know, those people were not experts, you know, in any way.
They were just, you know, people who'd had experiences.
Yeah, the man on the street.
Yeah, yeah, literally.
I mean, I rather like the look of the streets where you were doing that.
I'm presuming that was all in California, was it?
Yeah, most of it was, exactly.
Actually, it was, not most of it, all of it was those clips.
So that shows you the range of events that happened.
It's not just what we see sometimes, you know, a little sphere floating around or, you know, something that looks like an orb.
It's all sorts of bizarre looking things.
And, you know, people might look askance when the fact is that this whole thing is centered around California because California is a very beautiful place.
And personally, you know, if I could live there, I would be living there.
I love California.
However, there may be people who say that, well, maybe this is, you know, the last vestige of the hippie generation.
And that's why you get such a response in California.
But the other way of looking at it is maybe there's just a great preponderance of these strange things happening there.
Yeah, I think it's a combination of both, maybe.
And also we have to remember, you know, this phenomenon is not one thing.
You know, I personally think, especially after making this film, that it's a combination of things.
It's one is actually a human technology that is, you know, black ops, black projects type things.
And other things are perhaps atmospheric events that we just don't understand.
And definitely another part is some sort of extraterrestrial technology, some sort of, you know, sightings that are just non-human made.
So because of that, you're going to have a range of different events.
And it's very difficult in just one setting to figure out the whole thing.
And so California happens to be especially the area where we were.
First of all, the reason why we went back to that specific spot, because we ended up starting with Kevin Day's story, the USS Nimitz, USS Princeton, with their sighting, the Navy sightings, but also other Navy ships as well had similar sightings in the same area.
So there's something about that area.
So that's the reason why we went back and I personally believe there is some sort of base or some sort of hub going on there.
Well, there are two ways to argue it, aren't there?
This is the Catalina Island area, which a lot of us here in the United Kingdom haven't really heard of or are not really aware of where it is.
I mean, this is off California, isn't it?
And a lot of these things were reported there.
That seems to be a hotspot, which suggests one of two things.
Either some phenomenon from outside here or from another dimension from here zeroes in on all that military activity and everything else around there.
Because we haven't got to forget that San Diego is not too far away and that's the Pacific home of the U.S. Navy, isn't it?
So, you know, that might be a kind of attraction for whatever it might be, or whatever it might be could be being sent up from there.
Yes, absolutely.
I think some of it has a lot to do with that, the U.S. Navy base down in San Diego, which is not that far off.
But also, as we research that area, you know, Catalina has reported all sorts of anomalies since the 1940s.
And so I didn't include a lot of that because, you know, the film was getting very long.
It gets very difficult when you make a film, you know, to, you know, in the editing to what do you need to kind of cut out and keep and things.
But we had a whole section actually that looked deeply into that area in terms of other sightings that have been reported for years and years.
And some of it, it was all kind of around the Catalina area, coming out of the Catalina area.
Not just area, the island itself.
And a lot of it was underwater.
So again, having to do with naval, maybe submarines and things like that.
So there's something definitely going on there.
One of your starting points was with Kevin Day, who suffered so much because of this, and also Gary Voorhees, who a lot of the media have spoken with too.
I mean, they're the two people who've spoken about what they experienced and how it affected them.
But the one thing that came across again from them was how Kevin Day was emotionally affected by it.
I mean, I could see the tears welling in his eyes during your documentary.
But the descriptions, one of the descriptions that came back again during the documentary was, quotes, at one point, it was raining UFOs.
So whatever they went through, and we haven't got to forget either, the pilot David Fraver has been part of this mix too.
He's been widely reported upon.
And those flea camera bits of footage we've seen now, the tic-tacs have been widely carried around the world, those things.
But these people were deeply impacted.
And all of them, absolutely what they saw, they were convinced that whatever it was was way beyond the norm.
Yes, absolutely.
And so that's why, like you were saying, Kevin Day was totally devastated by this whole incident, especially also that when he tried to talk about it to his superior, he was laughed at.
He was mocked.
They were writing all these cartoons and circulating cartoons about him.
Just imagine, this is not a newbie.
You know, he's been in the Navy for 27 years.
You know, he was a chief officer, you know, his rank.
And for him to be mocked like that, I mean, it's got to be so, so embarrassing and devastating.
So yeah, so, and also when he tried to figure out what that was, whatever he they witnessed and what he saw on his radar, they came back the next day and they confiscated all the data, which was also very, very strange.
And I think that's what impacted him as well.
You know, the fact that not only he was mocked, but, you know, the data was confiscated.
It's as if, you know, there is something anomalous going on that you're not supposed to know about.
Right.
So the people who went through this, especially Kevin, were mocked about it.
They were not entirely believed about it.
And because all the stuff was taken away, and you will give me your thoughts, I'm sure, about who might have done that, but because all of the stuff was taken away by people who came on board and took it away or erased it there and then, it was impossible for those people like Kevin who went through this to say, well, look, I am telling you the truth and there's the data that shows it.
Exactly, exactly.
That's what I'm saying.
Like, you know, the fact that they took it, like his last hope of proving that he wasn't crazy was totally erased, you know, is totally disappeared right then.
And so that's the reason why his story is very, very touching.
And so, and other ships later, I think it's the USS Omaha that reported swarms of drones.
So that's why when Kevin Day mentions it was raining Tic Tac, so he's not the only one.
Other ships as well talked about swarms of drones coming down, falling down.
So it's fascinating.
You know, it's not, so this tells us, and also the USS Kid in the same area.
So this tells us that this is not a one-time, one-anomaly type thing.
There's some sort of operation going on, you know, that includes multiple objects and multiple over multiple days.
This is going to sound like a strange question, and I'm sorry I'm jumping in with it.
But, you know, these people are speaking, and part of it made me feel that somebody has permitted them to speak.
Not that they've gone and asked for permission and been given it.
But we know that if officials, this country is rife with secrecy, and if the government here, even in 2022, with the internet and everything else, wants to close something down, they sure as hell can.
And it's absolutely the same, I know, in America.
But these people are telling their story.
There are more and more of them coming out, and they're supporting each other.
And that's something else that comes out from your documentary.
So does it occur to you, does it appear to you that somebody believes that the time is right for this debate to be had?
Yeah, I believe the turning point for Kevin Day and Gary was the 2017 New York Times publication.
Because when they started talking about it and mainstream media was talking about it, all of a sudden, I think I have that reaction in my documentary as well.
This is where Kevin Day thought, oh my God, it's happening.
People are talking about it.
But that was 2017.
So his event happened in 2004.
So imagine 13 years of silence, of having to retreat from life pretty much because of what happened.
And finally, I feel that that was the turning point that gave him permission to come out and say, you know what?
I'm not the only one.
Everybody's talking about it.
It is time for me to come out and talk about it.
And this is what triggered other, you know, U.S. Navy personnel and other folks to keep coming out with the story.
And now there are people who are coordinating some of this stuff, even campaigning about this stuff, like my friend Sean Cahill, who I'm sure you know.
But Kevin Day, you know, I'm going to see that man's face as I close my eyes to go to sleep tonight, because it's...
It tugs at the heartstrings.
You know, he's got tears in his eyes and he says to you, this ruined my career.
Yes.
Yes.
Is he getting support or help?
Because he looked to me like a man.
I mean, he's a tough guy.
You have to be to do the job that he did.
But I came out of it feeling that this man needs to be supported through this now.
Yeah, so he came out with very, very severe PTSD as well because of that.
And so he's, yeah, I mean, he's recovering slowly, but surely.
And he has support from close friends and family.
But yeah, we were very, very touched by him, especially when we were filming.
I mean, as a person, just as we were interacting, you know, he's so sweet and from his heart, you know, he just wants the truth to come out.
You know, he keeps saying, I don't want any fame or money or any, you know, I just want the truth to come out.
And he's just such a lovely, lovely person.
So, yeah.
Well, congratulations for reflecting that in the way that just a standard sort of reportage documentary wouldn't do.
I think that's a very important contribution.
It's made me think about it again.
We said that, and I've mentioned this on shows that I've done before, both television and radio shows here in the UK.
We said that the data, some of it was erased at the time and some of it was taken away.
And I've never had a real answer to the question, you know, who took it away and where is it?
Do you know anything about that?
I mean, no.
I'm assuming, you know, that it is the Pentagon, actually.
And what's intriguing is that, of course, they would send, they probably sent Air Force personnel to retrieve the data.
What's intriguing about this is that they showed up so quickly, you know, I find that a little bit intriguing that, you know, if it was a trivial event, right?
So these Navy guys saw something.
It was nothing.
People were mocked on the ship.
Let's move on.
Why is it that someone from the Air Force would show up literally within hours to retrieve all the data and erase the data?
There are so many questions there.
You know, what did they decide to erase and why would that be?
And what was so interesting to them that they wanted to take it away and maybe squirrel it away in Washington or Arlington, Virginia or somewhere like that?
Yeah, exactly.
And I think Gary Voorhees, who's actually in charge of the data collection, interesting.
I mean, we got the guy who was in charge of the data.
And so he also mentions in the film that even the blank tapes were erased.
So I thought that was very odd.
Very, very odd.
If they want to erase the blanks.
That's peculiar, I think, is the only word for that.
All right.
Now, this is a documentary with a head and a heart.
The heart is Kevin Day and Gary Voorhees talking about the emotional impact of this and also a lot of the detail around it, which I think we've heard before, but you've got amplification upon that is useful.
But the other part of it is the science.
You assemble a team of scientists and you go to Catalina Island and the area around it, and you try and see if you can see this phenomenon again.
Now, before we talk about that, I've got to ask this question, and maybe I should have asked it at the start.
We have to say that you've assembled a remarkable collection of people, not only these first-hand witnesses like Kevin Day Gary Voorhees, but you've also got William Shatner there, who actually adds spice to the thing.
You know, I've been trying to get William Shatner, I've got to tell you, Corey, Caroline, on my shows for years.
In fact, I've still got a bid in for William Shatner, and I did some work for a television company that he works for, and I still can't get a conversation with Bill Shatner, not even for 10 minutes.
So you got him.
You also got my old friend Michio Kaku, you know, the famous scientist who, you know, is always on the media and knows how to popularize science.
So you got those two adding their spice.
And then the UAPX team who try to look at these things in a scientific way.
I think it's a great soup of people.
But my question, out of envy more than anything else, how did you get them all?
Yeah, so the original idea was to do a scientific investigation.
That was my main focus and purpose because as a filmmaker, you know, I, first of all, I always take that sort of approach.
I'm trying to make a paranormal subject normal.
And you do that by bringing any sort of credible science, measurable facts.
And so that was the angle.
And so when I met Gavin Day, I told him what I wanted to do.
And he says, oh my God, that's exactly what I've been trying to do.
And so I already have a couple of scientists on my team.
We have David Mason, who has, who's an inventor, who's got all this incredible devices, the devices which we should talk about and inventions and things like that.
But we've never been able to go out and do an expedition.
So it's almost like he already had a basic team that I was interested in because he had the scientists on board already.
So that's the reason why I ended up working with the whole team for this first expedition because it was kind of ready to go.
And so that was the main focus.
But then, of course, I wanted to not, I mean, what another thing, very important thing for me is to make this subject more mainstream, you know, so we stop looking at it as this strange, you know, again, paranormal thing, you know, only fringe, you know, science or whatever or pseudoscience.
You know, I really want to make this conversation very normal and very mainstream.
And I think you succeeded.
The thought that would go through your viewer's mind, I think, unless your viewer is somebody who's already seasoned and into all of this stuff.
But the view would be, well, Bill Shatner is sitting there talking about this stuff.
You know, he played Captain Kirk a fictional character, but he's clearly knowledgeable about this.
So if Bill Shatner is interested in this and thinks it needs to be investigated, then I'm getting on board.
that's exactly the point.
So, at one point, we're like, you know, I really want someone who will bridge the gap, you know, from just the hardcore ufologist to the mainstream.
And so, you know, we thought of him because he's on a couple of the shows that I'm in and I met him before.
And so, I thought, you know what?
Well, I'll try.
If he's interested, great.
If not, then it is what it is.
And, you know, we spoke to his team and we said, this is what we're doing.
It's never been done before.
We have Michio Kaku already, you know, scientists, astronomers, you know, those types of experts already on board.
Are you interested in this type of film?
And he said, yes.
So it was actually quite effortless, I want to say.
I thought it was amazing, and I thought he was incredibly gracious.
I don't know whether that was his home you were sitting in, but he was incredibly gracious.
But the other thing is, because I've been in the media for years, just like you, I'm sure, I can spot somebody who's reading off cue cards or has been told stuff to say a mile off.
He came to your session prepared.
Actually, no.
No, he didn't come prepared.
No, the only thing he knew was about the subject matter and what the film was about.
Yeah, that's what I'm saying.
He came able to make a contribution.
He didn't have to be given one.
Oh, yeah, yeah.
We give him nothing.
And for anybody who knows William Shatner, when it's not scripted, he's going to say whatever he's going to say.
And that's why I have endless respect for him.
Which was actually amazing because some of his reactions, as you saw, were priceless.
There's no way I would have made him, you know, I could have made him, you know, have any sort of reaction like that.
He gave us a lot more than what we wanted in that sense because he was himself.
And even though I have to say his angle is not necessarily just science, he is deeply interested in everything that's, you know, the mysteries of life, you know.
And because of that, his perspective and his answers were a lot bigger, were a lot more about, you know, who we are and how the mysteries of the universe work and things like that.
So that's why I felt at the end of the day, not only that he was just so funny and fun and excellent, but his perspective and contribution give it a balance, you know, of here we are doing the scientific thing.
And he would kind of bring that bigger picture type comment.
So I thought it worked.
Well, no, I thought immediately, you know, this man completely understands this subject.
When you got to the subject of triangulation with him, you know, he thought about this to the point where he said, well, you know, where's the triangulation data that we need with these things?
Because you would have thought there would be some.
So William Shaffner, I think, made a great contribution to it.
So you take a bunch of people with a ton of equipment to Catalina Island, which I thought all of America was ultra high-tech and bristling with vehicles and high-speed internet.
Catalina Island is the one place that doesn't have those things.
It doesn't have vehicles and it doesn't have high-speed communications.
So that must have made taking all of that equipment to scan the skies day and night and all of those people there must have made it quite difficult, didn't it?
It was a nightmare, Howard.
Oh my God.
So originally we were going to have the main team on Catalina Island and the kind of the satellite teams on the shore side.
But we realized there's no way they don't have cars.
They don't have trucks.
I mean, we have a ton of equipment, not just the actual devices for the sky watching, but the camera equipment, this was a big production.
I mean, we had a big crew with, we had about 10 cameras running all at once in all the locations.
So when we realized how bad this was and the internet and cell phones even don't work, we said, there's no way.
This is just not going to work.
So we changed it around and we had the main team on the Laguna Beach side and then the satellite team on Catalina.
And so for those who haven't watched the film, we did that for the purpose of triangulation to have different angles of potentially same object, which is very much lacking in UFO sightings.
And what you got were teams in different places, as you say, connected to each other, but had witnessed things.
I mean, there was even a sighting, there was a detection of something on the first night, and then it kind of improved from there, it seems to me.
And you were trying to detect in every way, visually, electromagnetically.
You were looking for temperature signatures, which is a very interesting thing because I'd never thought about this.
Some of the things that have been monitored are cold, and that indicates that they don't have propulsion like we would recognize propulsion, an engine, which would get warm.
I'd never thought about that.
So you got a lot of detections, quotes, triple spikes on gamma, white lights, and one of the quotes was when one of these things disappeared, where it's, well, I'll clean it up.
It's freaking gone.
It was there and it was freaking gone.
And there was triangulation from different places, Laguna and Catalina, using different instruments, measuring different things.
And this is the new part about this.
This is the stuff that hasn't been done before, isn't it?
That's exactly what is missing in ufology.
First of all, capturing an object, an anomalous object, across Pretty much the spectrum of physics.
So, when we talk about optical, you know, most people have a regular camera or maybe night vision, but that's about it.
So, what we had, we had multiple regular CCD cameras, high-definition.
We had, of course, military grade, the night vision, but also we had the FLIR.
The FLIR cameras are about 10 times more sensitive in the infrared range than the regular night vision goggles.
So, we are talking a lot more sensitivity and also it picks up the temperature, as you were mentioning, of the object.
Very important.
Because if an object is flying in the sky and is registering cold, then they're using some sort of warping, some sort of propulsion system that is not, that we don't know of.
And so that's the reason why having these types of devices is what's missing elsewhere.
And that's why we had to have it.
We also had different types of radiation detection devices, spectrum analyzers, RF devices.
I mean, all sorts of devices to cover this entire spectrum.
And the idea to do it scientifically is to have correlations, meaning not just triangulate from different angles at the same time.
So you have different ways of looking at the same event.
Then you understand more about it.
But the correlations, the correlations meaning we see an object and exactly at the same time, we have a very anomalous spike in the gamma ray, of gamma ray.
And so, and when this object disappears, we don't see the spikes.
And so then when you have multiple correlations of one same event from different cameras capturing it, different angles capturing it, and correlating with radiation or so on and so forth, we start to collect data, real scientific data, to then analyze the object or the anomaly scientifically.
And that's what's never been done before.
And that's what people will see in the film.
And what would you say those people who got, you know, your team who got those observations, what is it that they'd been detecting?
Were they Tic Tacs?
Yeah, which is insane.
That's another thing.
We didn't go in thinking, oh, we're going to go back and capture the same Tic Tac.
To be honest with you, how many times you've heard of people going on expedition and capturing nothing?
You know?
So we went in.
First of all, that team had never, it was a great team, but we had never really done it before.
And so in this way, no one's ever done it before in this way.
And so we're really starting from scratch, so to speak.
And I was just hoping for one major, like one real compelling, definitive anomaly.
I was very happy with just one going in.
And sure enough, you know, we had the first day, one sighting.
We couldn't do anything with that.
But then we got more and more.
And on one of the days, we captured something that looked exactly like the Tic Tac, behaving like the Tic Tac, going against the wind, the same type of trajectory.
I mean, that was insane.
I mean, what are the odds?
And so, and then another very, very unusual sighting is those Tic Tac-like things dropping down in the water.
Right.
And when we say dropping down in the water, we're not talking about raindrops keep falling on my head here.
We're talking about, you know, something that is clearly not a camera artifact.
They drop from the sky into the ocean 20,000 feet to sea level in like zero time at all.
And what you say and what this indicates is that that means there must be some kind of technology for traveling through matter without actually disturbing matter.
Exactly, exactly.
And of course, again, for people who are listening as scientists, the first thing we think about, oh, it's a camera artifact.
You know, I mean, the idea of this film is for the scientists to debunk themselves.
You know, they're not going to go out and capture something and say, oh, we captured a UFO.
I mean, that's the idea to look, maybe it's this, maybe it's a camera malfunction, maybe it's that.
And so we know it's not a camera malfunction for several reasons.
One of them, there's a decay.
As you observe the objects, there's a decay.
It means it's in front of.
It's not on the lens.
It's not the lens itself.
And so there's that going on.
The decay time is very long.
Also, some of the things falling down aren't coming down in a straight line.
They're going sideways.
If you look very carefully, they're taking up other pixels kind of diagonally as well.
Also, if you look very carefully, some of these objects are coming out of the water.
And if you look very carefully, when they hit the water, they're illuminating the water.
There's something that happens when they hit the water.
I mean, there's no way all of this would, I mean, this could be a camera malfunction.
And are we correct in saying, am I correct in saying, that the estimated size of some of these things is like 40, 50 feet in diameter?
Yeah, again, this is an estimation.
And so what happened is that because, you know, we, I mean, people will see how that particular camera, the angle that it was pointing, using trigonometry, they were able to calculate an estimated size.
But even if we were totally, totally off, it's still like by even by 50%, which is not the case, but we're just saying for argument's sake, it's still, yeah, some of them would come out to that size, which is the size of the Tic Tac.
No, no, I mean, it is a remarkable correlation.
You mentioned David Mason, this guy who's like an inventor.
I mean, we've got a word over here in the UK, boffin, and you know, he's a kind of boffin character.
I don't know, do you say boffin in the United States, but he's a kind of science character, like the guy from Back to the Future.
You know what I mean?
Right, right.
David Mason struck me as being a bit like that.
And among the things that he was doing is he was transmitting music on different frequencies continuously.
I mean, like 24-7 at the sky.
What was that all about?
That's another thing that no one's done before.
So David Mason is a genius, as far as I'm concerned.
And he also owned most of this equipment, which was incredibly lucky.
So, but to go back to his invention, so the idea was to not only capture something in the sky, but to transmit information because he believes that the way some of these objects are emitting light, it could be some form of communication because obviously they don't need light to see where they're going.
It's not that sort of device.
And so he invented the technology where when you're pointing at an object in the sky, you are detecting the light signature coming out of the object and translating it back into a sound.
And that sound can then be sent back to that object, right back to them.
And so the idea is if we were detecting communication, we're basically telling them, we can hear you and this is our response back to you.
And the other way around, by sending music towards, you know, whatever object we're seeing in the sky, you know, would be a form of communication.
So his adventures, and these are only a couple of his inventions.
There's more that we haven't been able to use.
We will use in the future for sure, that also transmit, detect the temperature and transmits back a sound to the craft.
So it's pretty cool stuff.
On my show and many other shows in this genre, a lot has been made of the Lockheed Skunk Works as described, the place where a lot of exotic technology is kind of created or back engineered or whatever it might be.
You did have a scientist on who said, the way this stuff that you've been detecting is behaving, there is nothing, even the most esoteric technology that we, or it is suspected we do have, could not do this.
Yeah, exactly.
That's what I was saying.
I think we're convinced, at least what this film does, is to demonstrate beyond the shadow of the doubt that these are 100% anomalous events and some are simply not human technology.
And so I'm also convinced that there is no explanation, a humanly possible explanation.
Now, of course, you can go into warp science and those types of things, but this science is very poorly understood at this time.
And so that's the reason why I feel there's a combination of technologies.
Some are definitely human and perhaps even ours.
And others are from an extraterrestrial origin.
Or maybe, Caroline, some kind of collaboration between the two of those things.
Very possible.
Some sort of reverse engineering happening for sure.
Collaboration.
Who knows?
So you get to the point, and I'm thinking to myself, as you're getting to this stage in the documentary, if you follow the rulebook from the standard documentary on this kind of thing, what you're going to do now is you're going to take all the data back to a team of scientists.
They're going to number crunch it all and they're going to leave us with a whole bunch of questions and probably dismiss an awful lot of it.
And that's not what happened.
Exactly.
So what happens is we had so many devices running 24-7.
So we couldn't look at all the data in real time.
We were looking as much as we could.
But some of it was collected on hard drives, obviously.
And we continued to look at the data pretty much every day.
And after the filming, the scientists continued to look at it.
And they give us a call and they were like, okay, we have something else that just happened here.
You're going to be blown away.
So basically, they end up finding some sort of an opening, a tear.
Of course, we call it in a movie wormhole-like, because it was literally an opening and closing, revealing actual reflective objects that would literally pop up, out, and then disappear behind the cloud.
Although a couple of these dots, objects, would continue to pop out of this hole, whatever that was.
And again, maybe doing up to 4,000 miles an hour as they did it.
Yes, I'm not sure.
We didn't calculate the speed, but we did calculate the size.
Right.
So, you know, were they 40 feet in diameter?
I think you were saying in the documentary they were.
So here we have, literally, and this is just to make the point very clearly, the tear in the sky, a hole in the clouds that opens and shuts stunningly quickly, and these strange dots that appear to drop out of that aperture.
Right.
And they calculated the speed of this opening and closing, and it was about 800 miles an hour.
So it's like very, very, very fast.
And so what are these dots?
You know, and so the idea is, again, to just to make sure it's not a camera.
That's the first thing we look at.
It's not a camera malfunction because we have the exact same frames just before and just after, and we have the exact same frame over days.
So we have controls of that specific camera and that specific angle.
So it's literally something that shows up, does its thing, and disappears.
And also the radar picks up reflective objects.
So because we said, oh, maybe it's light reflection, maybe it's radiation.
Even maybe we looked even at solar flares.
We thought maybe there's some sort of strange event we don't understand.
It's not solar flares.
It's not radiation.
And the radar is picking up, yeah, an object.
Okay, now that's interesting.
I'm sure you read the papers like I do.
A week or two ago, there was another story saying that actually an awful lot of these sightings, so-called, are attributable to space junk returning, burning up.
Space junk?
Yeah.
Yeah.
So the idea of space junk, actually, since that film as well, I've been talking to more scientists and the scientists are talking to other scientists, you know, trying to figure out, hey, maybe it's some sort of atmospheric anomaly we still don't understand or like what you're saying, some sort of probes or space junk.
And the problem is, though, some of it explains the dots, some of it explains the opening and closing, but nothing explains both.
Because if it were space junk, it's very odd that they would appear exactly in that spot, exactly at that opening and closing.
You know what I mean?
It would just be space junk, you know?
So that's what's that also, I don't think, checks out.
No, well, looking at the documentary, I don't think it does either.
So the scientists come to a conclusion that is encapsulated in a couple of phrases.
They say this is an unidentified, unclassified phenomenon.
That's one.
And then the one that I like most is it's a her.
What the heck is that moment?
It is exactly.
We were laughing so hard because, you know, again, these are hardcore scientists.
You know, they're very, very nervous to put their neck on the line and say, hey, we discovered this or we discovered that.
So we're still, like I said, they just did a conference at the SCU, the SCU conference, the Science Coalition of UAPs, which is all, they're all science-based and all, you know, really looking at it in a very hardcore way.
And, you know, no one's coming up with a real explanation.
So a real, I mean, yeah.
And so it's still a mystery.
And we are, we are still looking for other data, satellite data, other types of things that would explain this anomaly.
And so far, we're talking about, you know, NASA, we're talking, you know, I mean, the big organizations that could give us some sort of clue.
Even the boss of NASA within these last few weeks has said, you know, we're now going to be investigating this.
What have they got?
A nine-month program, I think it is, and a team of experts.
So something seems to be happening, it seems to me.
And there's a lovely quote, and you can maybe tell me who this was from.
I wrote it down, but didn't write who said it.
But it encapsulates everything.
It says, quotes, I hope without endeavors, or I think with our endeavors, people see that we can research this without negative consequences.
And I hope people can come together.
That's paraphrasing a couple of sentences at the very end of this.
But it was very moving.
You can tell me you said that.
But basically, we need to come together and make sense of all this if we can.
Yeah, that was Gary Voorhees at the end.
That was Gary, wasn't it?
Yeah.
Yeah, because, you know, sometimes you see a lot of competition or division or confusion between even the UFO groups, but also indefinitely between, you know, government, you know, government and civilians.
And so that's, I mean, look, I totally understand if we have black projects.
I mean, that's normal, you know, if it's a national security, but they can also tell us this has to do with national security.
I think the problem is the way the government goes about it, you know, trying to hide this or debunk that or tell us, oh, this could be birds when it's ridiculous.
Well, of course, it's difficult, isn't it, for them?
Because if they say some of this stuff in particular, this, this, and this, is technology that we've got.
So please don't worry about that.
It's not ET.
But if they say that, then they're going to pique the interest of Moscow and Beijing.
Yeah, but I mean, they don't have to be that specific.
You know, they could say, you know what I mean?
They're not going to say exactly in that location.
But they could give us a clue.
Yeah, yeah.
I think the problem is they keep, you know, kind of, they have been anyway now with the congressional hearing, as you mentioned, and then NASA coming out with this program.
They're finally wanting to have the conversation openly.
But I think the way it has been so far has been very difficult because, again, going back to Kevin Day's story and Gary and all those guys whose lives were destroyed.
And you know what?
They're not the only ones.
They're not the only ones.
I know a lot of people who are ridiculed, lost their career, lost their job, families because of that sort of reaction between groups and between government and civilians.
So yeah, I mean, I totally agree.
I hope with this film, first of all, we're pushing for more data and for more disclosure from the government because, you know, in the congressional hearing, they were saying, oh, we don't have, we have 400 cases.
We don't have enough data to come to any conclusion.
And think about this.
We are civilians.
We go out in five days, five days, and we not only collect a lot of data that people can see in the film that's never been collected before and the typical things as well, but we walk away with hundreds of hours of data that we're still going through.
Okay.
in five days.
So, how can the government with the satellites and the radars, you know, not have data?
Well, that's a very, very moot point, as we say over here.
That's a very, very interesting question.
If and when there are more hearings and people are invited to testify before them, would you like to?
Yes, they can just watch the film.
Absolutely.
We have nothing to hide.
And that's exactly the point of this quote you just said earlier, you know, that the idea is for people to come together and figure this out together, you know, in this way.
I think it's time and I think it is happening, you know, I think, although there's got to be another agenda, I think, because, you know, we went from ridicule and from hush-hush and from, you know, all of that to all of a sudden, oh, yes, you know, we do have tickets, we do have anomalies, we don't know what they are.
And now we're at a point where, you know, there's congressional hearings and I'm sure there's going to be more.
So there's something cooking.
There's something going on.
There is definitely, I agree with you about that.
And yes, even in this world of mass communication and social media, it is possible to keep secrets, but not forever.
You know, I'm old enough when I was just a boy to remember Richard Nixon, you know, saying there will be no whitewash in the White House.
And of course, you know, ultimately he had to go and the whole Watergate thing back then was exposed.
I mean, I didn't know anything about it, but I researched it later when I was a student.
So you can't keep stuff secret forever.
So last question, I think, on the basis of all of this research, and I think you've done something very, very different here on a whole bunch of levels.
Do you believe that we are living now, 2022, in the era of disclosure?
100%.
I really, really think so.
That's what I was saying.
I feel there's something going on in terms of preparing for more and more disclosure.
And this is just the beginning.
So, and so, and that was actually the purpose of this film, to push the envelope, to push for more disclosure, because we as civilians, we went out, we did it.
We didn't wait for anybody.
We did it with the proper instruments, scientifically in the proper way.
We did collect data.
So, in other words, there is a way.
And I think this is going to trigger even more disclosure.
Now, I'm sitting here in London.
I've been doing this material on air and busting my biceps and triceps for 16 and a half years or more now.
And, you know, it's difficult doing it over here because it's not as, I don't think it's as easy to do it over here as it is in America, but maybe people would disagree.
So, my last question, actually, I lied, that wasn't the last question.
This is the last question.
Can you put a word in for me with Bill Shatler?
I would love to speak with him.
And like so many people all over the world, when he went up in the space capsule and touched the edge of space himself, and he cried, I cried with him.
I'd love to speak with him.
So if you ever talk to him again, please mention there's a guy called Howard Hughes, which is my real name, and that might amuse him, who'd love to speak with him.
Caroline, listen, I've loved speaking with you.
I wish you every success with this documentary.
I know it's been out for eight or ten weeks now.
So I hope it's doing well.
Are you going to follow it up?
Oh, definitely, because of what we found.
There's no way we're already planning the next expeditions right now, actually.
Okay, it's called A Tear in the Sky, and it's presumably what, available all over the internet.
Yeah, so I think in the UK, people can watch it on Amazon.
But the best way is to go to the website, a tearinthesky.com, and they will see all the platforms and all the countries.
And yeah, and all the information and updates because we're going to keep updating everyone.
Caroline Corey, lovely to speak with you.
Thanks so much for having me.
Well, I thought that was really interesting and really useful.
And I think that documentary is well worth seeing.
It works on a whole bunch of levels because not only do you get to see William Shatner and Michi Yukaku and the scientists and the investigation in this beautiful place called Catalina Island, which until a few years ago I'd never heard of.
I think it's a useful contribution to all of it.
And I hope you enjoyed the conversation with Caroline Corey.
And when she does the update, we will, of course, speak with her here.
More great guests in the pipeline here at the home of the unexplained.
So until next we meet, my name is Howard Hughes.
This has been The Unexplained Online.
And please, whatever you do, stay safe, stay calm.
And above all, please stay in touch and stay cool.
Take care.
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