Two guests from the tv show - Acclaimed film-maker and investigator Jeremy Corbell on the recent UFO/UAP hearings - And Mark Olly on his new Flying Disk Press book "Human Heads and Crystal Skulls"...
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| Across the UK, across continental North America and around the world on the internet by webcast and by podcast. | |
| My name is Howard Hughes and this is The Unexplained. | |
| Thank you for your communications recently. | |
| I have been watching them with great interest. | |
| More about that in just a moment. | |
| Weather report from London. | |
| It is June and we've had some sunshine, some really unseasonably heavy rain. | |
| And at the moment, it's kind of dull and humid and feels like there's about to be a thunderstorm. | |
| So who knows? | |
| I'm sitting here in a t-shirt, perspiring somewhat, but you don't need to know that, do you? | |
| Emails. | |
| Lots of them. | |
| And interesting, a flow recently of emails asking for catch-ups with guests who've been on here before. | |
| And that is an interesting situation because, yes, I do approach guests again and will always have them on if they've got something new or different to say. | |
| So, you know, I'm on that. | |
| If you've sent me a guest suggestion recently saying, why don't you get so-and-so back on, I'm doing it. | |
| Thank you very much. | |
| And, you know, I've kind of fallen into a routine now since I had to start doing all the guest booking and planning for the show again. | |
| I'm kind of getting into a routine for this, but, you know, I've got to tell you this. | |
| You probably know this if you've been listening for years. | |
| In terms of admin, I'm not the world's most organized person, right? | |
| I am somebody who enjoys doing the interviews. | |
| I love to get a good guest on and get a story that I wasn't expecting out of them. | |
| You know, those are the things that I enjoy. | |
| And actually, making schedules, booking guests, all of that stuff, all of the nuts and bolts and mechanics, I find very, very boring and difficult, actually, because for me it is boring and I have a certain attention span. | |
| But I'm getting into it little by little, bit by bit. | |
| You know, maybe one of these days, like the big shows, I'll have a kind of team of people behind me doing those things. | |
| But at the moment, that's not going to happen. | |
| The TV show is continuing. | |
| It is, of course, very different from the old radio show. | |
| And I know some of you have raised points about that. | |
| And just to say that, you know, any issues about that, you know, have got to be raised with them because, you know, I don't control that. | |
| Yes, I come up with the guest ideas. | |
| We don't have a big budget or indeed any budget. | |
| So it's kind of down to me to come up with the ideas and execute them. | |
| But if you have any ideas and thoughts about the way that that show is done, that it's got to be directed towards them because the template for the way that it's done, like it's got to be all live and it has to be done in a particular way in the way that the other shows are done, all of that is determined for me. | |
| So if you're commenting on that, it isn't something really that I can change. | |
| And from my point of view, I'm learning a new skill. | |
| And that's got to be useful. | |
| At my advanced age, that's got to be a good thing. | |
| It's good to keep your mind active to learn and do new things. | |
| You can't keep doing the same thing forever. | |
| I did news, as you might know, on the radio for years and years and years and years. | |
| And I got awards for it. | |
| I've got two of them on the wall at the moment. | |
| I must take those down, actually. | |
| They're looking a bit old. | |
| But I decided that the industry was changing and I didn't think that I could do the stuff that I used to do in the way that I did it anymore because news budgets at radio stations were being cut and cut and cut. | |
| And the idea of one person bespoke creating the news for one station, that's more or less gone out the window these days. | |
| So I decided to effectively stop doing that. | |
| Quit while you're ahead, I think, if I ever was ahead. | |
| And I find this that I'm doing now, even though it keeps me poor, is what I love to do. | |
| And that's the greatest gift you can get in life. | |
| Even if you're not making the big bucks, if you're doing something that you love, then isn't that fab? | |
| Because a lot of people in this world have to do things that they don't love. | |
| And so far in my life, only once or twice, I've never had to really do that. | |
| Okay, let's talk about what's on this show. | |
| A couple of items that you have requested from the TV show. | |
| Jeremy Corbel, the full version of the conversation that I had with him at Made International News a couple of weeks ago about the revelation that the military was firing and recently upon UAP's stroke UFOs. | |
| So we'll hear the full conversation there. | |
| And thank you for asking me for that because, you know, I would have forgotten to put that on here if it wasn't for you. | |
| So I put a clip on a recent podcast. | |
| Going to hear the whole thing here. | |
| Plus the conversation from, what, seven or 10 days ago, depending on when you're hearing this, with Mark Ollie, researcher and author in the UK in Warrington, about human heads and the fascinating subject of crystal skulls. | |
| So that's going to be here. | |
| Both of those items, like I say, archived here from the TV show so that they're available for posterity, as they say. | |
| Okay, I think that's more or less everything. | |
| Just to remind you, as I always do, when you get in touch with me, I'd love to hear from you. | |
| Tell me which part of the world you're in and just give me an idea of how you use the show because it's really nice to hear from you. | |
| I heard from one guy recently who listens to my shows when he goes on his 10-mile walks or 10-mile hikes, as he called it. | |
| So, you know, it's just a great way for me to discover the part that this show, if it does, plays in your life. | |
| I think that's all I have to say. | |
| Before I go waffling on, let's get to the guests then. | |
| This is the conversation with Jeremy Corbel, filmmaker, independent investigator, man who was referenced in those May 17th, Washington UFO hearings. | |
| This was our conversation from a couple of weeks ago. | |
| Let's get to our friend Jeremy Corbell, independent filmmaker and all-round good guy who's been very, very busy and was actually name-checked during the hearings. | |
| Jeremy, thank you for coming on. | |
| Hey, Howard, great to see you. | |
| Nice to see you too, Jeremy. | |
| I'm liking the beard. | |
| I'm liking the beard. | |
| Hey, you sent me a video 11 minutes into it. | |
| You got a fulsome name-check. | |
| Were you expecting that? | |
| No, I thought I misheard. | |
| I'm going to spit my coffee out. | |
| I'm Hoping that Representative Carson was thinking to protect me a little bit. | |
| Yeah. | |
| But it must have, you know, look, they mentioned you, they talked about your work. | |
| I know that you've worked for years on this. | |
| You know that you've worked for years on this, but it must have been gratifying to know that they noticed. | |
| Yeah, but look, this was everybody, Howard. | |
| This was the entire UFO Twitter. | |
| This was the public. | |
| This is public will, representative government. | |
| All of these congresspeople, they were getting an earful from everybody. | |
| So this, yeah, it was cool. | |
| But look, man, this is a movement that is huge. | |
| And that's why we're seeing what we're seeing today. | |
| Right. | |
| And, you know, Steve Bassett accepted it for what it was. | |
| You know, I thought it was, well, I don't know what I expected. | |
| It was a hearing amongst people who are key decision makers, people in suits on, you know, fairly large salaries, in positions of power. | |
| They weren't going to sit there and say, well, actually, everything that we've told you for the last 50, 60, 70 years about this subject is slightly wrong. | |
| And the truth is that we've been hiding this, that, and the other, and we're on the way to discuss. | |
| That was never going to happen. | |
| What they told us, and what I found interesting, was that they are now, in a way that they haven't before, systematically investigating these reports, surprise, surprise. | |
| And for once, they are inviting reports from people like pilots, who you've had a lot of dealings with, and they will treat them on just... | |
| One of the key things, Scott Bray, Deputy Director of Naval Intelligence, basically said that we are moving away from anecdotes to intelligence. | |
| That was the takeaway line for me. | |
| What do you think? | |
| Yeah, so there's a lot to unpack there. | |
| First of all, you have people whose bosses told them to be there. | |
| They're not fully briefed, not fully aware. | |
| They didn't know about some of the exploitation programs. | |
| They didn't even say OSAP, Advanced Aerospace Weapons System Applications Program, which is the true name of the funded UFO program here in the United States, the secret program. | |
| Of course, that was followed up by ATIP, and that was followed up by the great and heroic Lou Elizondo. | |
| And so they didn't really have a lot of information. | |
| And I will say, Howard, I am very optimistic. | |
| I'm an optimistic person. | |
| I'm enthusiastic. | |
| This was a benchmark moment in the history of UFO understanding. | |
| We're living in a different world. | |
| Our children will grow up in a different world now where we can talk without stigma, which was the purpose of the hearing, about UFOs and we can scientifically study them. | |
| However, they tried to swamp gas us. | |
| They tried to say that the events in 2019 off the West Coast that I reported on and released four corroborative videos. | |
| Well, we're going to see some of the footage that you kindly sent us here. | |
| We're going to roll it in as a kind of backdrop to the whole thing. | |
| So as we talk, we're going to screen some of this stuff. | |
| But that 20-line footage, this was from the Omaha, the USS Omaha, yeah? | |
| And the USS Russell. | |
| And they kept playing the USS Russell and tried to pretend that it was a lens artifact that made them look pyramid in shape. | |
| The video you're looking at right now. | |
| Now, I feel like Mike Tyson against a four-year-old. | |
| Are you kidding me? | |
| Do they not know what I have? | |
| I know I've spoken with more eyewitnesses than ONI, Office of Naval Intelligence, or the Department of Defense, and even the UAPTF. | |
| I know I have more information than them. | |
| So this was hilarious to me. | |
| They literally tried to swamp gas us. | |
| They tried to pretend, like J.L. and Hynek, nothing to see here and move on, which he felt regretful for back in the day. | |
| So look, the truth is going to come out. | |
| And that's what's interesting. | |
| So on one hand, I'm extremely feeling positive and enthusiastic that we've gotten so far. | |
| UFOs are real. | |
| They're machines. | |
| They outpace, outmaneuver, and outperform any weaponry that we have. | |
| We don't know where they're from. | |
| And they're controlled by an intelligence. | |
| Okay, great. | |
| So we know that. | |
| The Congress people were amazing with their questions that they asked. | |
| But the suits right there, I got to say, they're more politicians than they are military men. | |
| I'm sure they've served. | |
| But the thing is, is that it's a position that they are appointed to. | |
| They weren't fully briefed on all of this stuff. | |
| They simply didn't have the information. | |
| So again, I'm going to say it one more time. | |
| I feel like Mike Tyson against a four-year-old. | |
| This is going to be amazing. | |
| Oh, you want evidence. | |
| Oh, you want proof. | |
| Okay, no problem. | |
| So what you're seeing there right now on your screen is from the USS Omaha. | |
| There was over 100 drones and they call them drones. | |
| And I know the people that designated them drones, but they're UAP. | |
| They had extreme maneuverable capability shooting straight up like that into space, eyewitnesses from the Russell. | |
| So here's the deal. | |
| We got swarmed. | |
| Who knows the position of all of our 10 Navy warcraft? | |
| Who knows those positions? | |
| Who was able to launch and land without a designation? | |
| Head of the Navy said, we don't know who's operating these craft. | |
| So this is what's so funny. | |
| They didn't show the best evidence. | |
| They showed stuff they feebly tried to dismiss and swamp gas us. | |
| The thing is, George Knapp has released more high-quality photos from F-18 pilots off the East Coast of these craft, these, they call them, you know, metallic blimp with payload, UFOs, or something, right? | |
| George Knapp had better evidence he released. | |
| Why didn't they just show George Knapp's photos? | |
| I mean, it was pretty amazing how uneducated and how sleight of hand they were trying to be. | |
| But even with that, Howard, even with that, it doesn't matter. | |
| The public has spoken. | |
| The public is pushing forward. | |
| This is not UFO disclosure. | |
| This is not UFO confirmation. | |
| This is a damn revolution. | |
| Well, look, as I said when we spoke with Steve Bassett, it is amazing to hear these things being talked about. | |
| I don't remember the hearings 50 years ago. | |
| I wasn't around to hear them. | |
| But this was quite remarkable to hear people, even if they were sober, talking about these things. | |
| I mean, somber in their tone. | |
| Quote here, the intelligence community has a duty to protect us from new technology developed by our adversaries. | |
| So it seemed to me that the focus was very much on the idea that if this is some kind of weird technology that somebody's got, it's probably China, might be Russia. | |
| It's not up there. | |
| No, no, that's been excluded. | |
| You know, pardon me, but that's bullshit. | |
| That has been excluded. | |
| So here we are now, right? | |
| It's not our black technologies. | |
| It's not our secret military programs. | |
| We've excluded that. | |
| We've excluded any foreign nation that's technologically advanced that we know of. | |
| All of this, all of this has been excluded. | |
| So now we're at a point of these, these are real UAPs. | |
| You know, where are they from? | |
| Who made them? | |
| Where's the factories? | |
| Where do they come from? | |
| Are we going to hear that, Jeremy? | |
| Are we going to be, you know, presumably these hearings are ongoing? | |
| Are we going to hear that material? | |
| Oh, you're going to hear directly from people that engaged UFOs. | |
| These hearings, I have a little bit of insight of what's about to happen within the United States. | |
| You know, look, man, when they dropped my name and I spit my coffee out, I was thinking, what's next? | |
| So I started to make some calls. | |
| I know what's next. | |
| There's going to be direct individual witnesses with corroborative radar visual evidence that was filmed and their testimony. | |
| So think about this, Howard. | |
| Think about this. | |
| The debunkers right now, if you were to believe the debunkers, this is what you'd have to believe. | |
| You'd have to believe that there was mental delusion, not from one pilot, but from many pilots at the same time. | |
| We're talking about the Tic Tac UFO case, let's say. | |
| And here we have on screen here, again, thank you for sending this, Jeremy, some radar footage. | |
| Yeah, so this is corroborative radar evidence of the USS Omaha swarm. | |
| And you can hear them if you listen to the audios of the clip. | |
| And this is corroborative with other types of weapon systems platforms, like when we had FLIR footage or deck footage. | |
| But let me go back to the debunking. | |
| This is really important, Howard. | |
| So people that try to debunk things very, very feebly. | |
| I mean, I wish I had better adversaries in this intellectual war. | |
| They're trying to tell you that what you're seeing is mental delusion that was picked up by radar, that was picked up by infrared, that was picked up by thermal, and all of our AI systems that coordinate the integration of what every plane is seeing. | |
| It is absolutely, fundamentally ludicrous. | |
| Additionally, additionally, it is a conspiracy theory to deny the evidence, to obscure the evidence, to ignore inconvenient evidence. | |
| It is cognitive dissidence. | |
| We are living in a different world, and that world includes the reality of the UFO presence on planet Earth. | |
| Howard, can you be more excited? | |
| This is game-changing. | |
| We are now in a place where our ecosystem of understanding of this universe that we are a part of has now expanded beyond our wildest imagination. | |
| If you are not curious, if your curiosity is not weaponized, then you have not been paying attention. | |
| Do you think that there is a sub-plot behind this, then? | |
| And from everything that you've just said, it indicates that you might well think that way, Jeremy. | |
| That we're just being prepared. | |
| We're being softened up here for what is to come. | |
| By our government? | |
| Are you talking about... | |
| To have these here. | |
| Are you asking if we're being softened up by our government? | |
| If this process, as we call it over here, if this process is going to end, you know, that those who started this process running on Tuesday know where it's going to end, and it's going to end with something akin to disclosure. | |
| But we've got to go on a journey and we're being prepared for it. | |
| So this isn't something that's going to happen a week next Tuesday. | |
| It's going to happen when it will happen. | |
| Is that what is occurring here? | |
| Disclosure has already occurred. | |
| Confirmation has already occurred. | |
| Again, people need to pay attention. | |
| What's happening next is a deeper thing than that. | |
| It's a deeper level than that. | |
| It's getting the scientific community to engage the physics of what's going on, the propulsion systems. | |
| This goes all the way back to Bob Lazar and what he told us via George Knapp in 1989 when they broke the story of exploitation programs and reverse engineering alien spacecraft for the United States military. | |
| That's what was said. | |
| And now we're seeing that that was most likely correct. | |
| This is not something where the government is slowly cooking us into understanding. | |
| This has taken will and willpower of people like Lou Elizondo, George Knapp, Dr. James Lukatsky, Dr. Colm Kelleher, even myself played a small role. | |
| And additionally, the public, UFO Twitter. | |
| My gosh, this is everybody pushing forward for the truth. | |
| Okay. | |
| And that truth you think is out there and it's going to come. | |
| The problem with it is that peppered throughout those hearings was the assumption underneath it all, and I was getting frustrated at one point. | |
| Yeah. | |
| That the constant implication that whatever it is has got to be from some power on earth. | |
| That, like I said, the Chinese or the Russians or somebody else who's maybe developed this stuff. | |
| And if they've developed this stuff, then God, that's a threat to us. | |
| Of course, the missing point is that if somebody else has it, well, then it's a threat as well. | |
| It's just as much of a threat. | |
| But there was just an internal memo that I read today that I think is now public, where they said, where the top military brass said, look, we'd kind of prefer this was extraterrestrial because if this is an adversary on Earth, we're screwed. | |
| That's the essence of what was said. | |
| But here's the deal, man. | |
| Have no fear. | |
| UFOs have been with humanity since the beginning of recorded human history, if not before. | |
| And there's this great quote from T.S. Eliot, and the end of all our exploring will arrive. | |
| We will arrive where we started and know the place for the first time. | |
| All we're doing, Howard, is We're starting to understand the world that we live in, the universe that we are a part of. | |
| This is a beautiful thing. | |
| It is a military perspective to say we need to look at national defense. | |
| And I support that because it's true. | |
| We need to look at it. | |
| But the thing is, is that whatever encourages our military to get proper reporting so people like me don't need to obtain and release leaked footage that they don't even have in the right spot, I'm for that. | |
| I would like to retire. | |
| If that was part of the job anymore. | |
| Part of the subplot, I thought it was like they were bending over backwards and in every other direction to say, look, we've got systems in place. | |
| We're encouraging people to report. | |
| One of the other things I wrote down was that we're going to be strengthening our partnerships with NOAA, that's the weather bureau essentially, NASA and other agencies. | |
| So it was almost like there was a message within those hearings to those agencies that you too have got to get on board this train. | |
| We know where it's going, but we can't say so yet. | |
| What do you think? | |
| Yeah, so it's very optimistic. | |
| And despite the lack of knowledge that I saw by the military brass, the suits, right? | |
| The politicians, the military politicians, I think they did a good job. | |
| They tried to obfuscate, but the Congress people are my champions, my heroes now. | |
| So the words are great. | |
| And I talk to people every day, too many times a day, who are actively deployed. | |
| Now, I will tell you this, Howard, and this is fact. | |
| I have seen the logs. | |
| I have seen the videos. | |
| We have attempted shootdowns of UAPs on a regular basis. | |
| We're talking as recently as last Friday. | |
| Attempted shootdowns as recently, this is important, as last Friday. | |
| Correct. | |
| And it happens on a weekly, if not daily, basis. | |
| So you have to understand, we are protecting ground troops. | |
| So in certain areas of the world. | |
| So certain things that come in proximity to those ground troops, it is just not. | |
| Do we, because time is limited, do they fire back? | |
| Have they ever fired back? | |
| I'm going to pass on that question at this moment. | |
| But no, no, there's no aggressive action. | |
| That means yes, doesn't it? | |
| What? | |
| That means yes, doesn't it? | |
| No, no. | |
| I will say that there is no overt, aggressive action that seems to be taken towards us. | |
| It seems more of an observational and also another type of program. | |
| Which screams as we come into the last seconds of this, Jeremy, and thank you for helping me tonight again. | |
| It screams all over it that this is not some power on Earth. | |
| This is some power that wants to demonstrate it has a technology is not going to, if it was going to engage us, it would have engaged us by now. | |
| So there's a big game being played here. | |
| And, you know, for once, we are hearing decision makers and people behind the decision makers talking about it. | |
| That's the takeaway. | |
| Well, Howard, Howard, this is a power on Earth, but we just don't know where it comes from. | |
| And I would be presumptuous to say it's extraterrestrial, interdimensional, temporoterrestrial, techno-terrestrial, my favorite pet theory. | |
| You know, it's presumptuous. | |
| We have a lot of work to do. | |
| It's UAP, unidentified aerial phenomena, but these are machines that are far more advanced and they outpiece, outmaneuver, and outperform anything we have. | |
| So that's the bottom line, man. | |
| But I want to make sure you understand the Air Force is engaging these UAP on a weekly basis with arms, and I can prove it. | |
| Are we going to hear that? | |
| So that's important for people to know. | |
| When these hearings go to the next stage, and we've literally only got seconds, Jeremy, I'm sorry for that. | |
| You know what TV is like. | |
| Are we going to hear what you've just said in those hearings? | |
| Will that come out? | |
| If they bring me as a witness, I'll show it. | |
| Do you think they will? | |
| I have no idea. | |
| Well, here's the appeal then. | |
| Jeremy knows this stuff. | |
| He's the guy who's been putting the videos out there. | |
| If you're putting these hearings together and you want them to be serious, you need him on board. | |
| Genuinely fascinating material from Jeremy Corbell. | |
| We will be hearing more from Jeremy, I am certain. | |
| Coming next, Mark Ollie in Warrington, UK, talking about crystal skulls and human heads. | |
| This is that conversation. | |
| It's a pleasure to be on. | |
| Hi. | |
| Gosh, I've suddenly come on screen and I'm really large. | |
| Well, no, you're not. | |
| Not large, I mean, you're just, you know, present, I think, is the word present. | |
| I'm liking the headset, though. | |
| You know, we can play a few games later with that. | |
| Yeah, we can do. | |
| It's mainly so that I've got this mic because I fidget and I move around a lot. | |
| So at least if I've got this nailed to my head, you know, I'm not going to wander away. | |
| Well, I could do with one of them. | |
| Now, Mark, obviously, one does not do these things without doing a certain amount of research, which I have done. | |
| Your background is... | |
| But you're a music industry dude, aren't you? | |
| Originally, yes. | |
| Yeah, I started off playing drums. | |
| I had my first record deal when I was 18. | |
| Since then, I don't know, 50 odd bands, 21 years pro, don't know how many amateur, four record deals, a load of books and a TV series, and here we are. | |
| Have you had me here? | |
| The one people will remember is that I landed a deal for a band called The Tempest that were around in the early 80s and did all the work with them up to the point where they kind of went global. | |
| So that made Radio one. | |
| I think we got to number three. | |
| And I've worked with a lot of other famous people since then, but that's another story. | |
| So the Tempest got their moment of fame or their years of fame, but you went off on another path? | |
| Well, yeah, I wasn't sure about the deal. | |
| So I went off and did a load of session work and worked with all sorts of famous people who I won't mention and ended up basically retiring in the 1990s, writing a load of books and got a TV series with ITV Granada, Lost Treasures, which ended up going on to Sky, Sky History Channel. | |
| And then, you know, coming out of lockdown, I thought, time to do another book. | |
| And that's the one you've just put up to camera. | |
| So here we are. | |
| We'll get to that in a moment. | |
| I mean, it's great that you've got that kind of background, I think. | |
| What is it do you think that there are so many people in and around the music business who have a soft spot for these kind of things? | |
| I'm thinking about people like Robbie Williams, who is a well-known enthusiast for UFOs, and people like Kim Wilde, who claims that she's seen something like that. | |
| But you go through the panoply, the catalogue of musical artists, and you'll find an awful lot of interest in these things. | |
| Why do you think that is? | |
| I think it's probably because people who are creative are at the same time, usually sensitive. | |
| They're sensitive to the world around them. | |
| And I think that connectivity to creativity and to the world around them enables them to sort of be in the right place at the right time to see and experience these things. | |
| That having been said, though, I mean, if you talk specifically on things like UFOs or UAPs, as they know now, anybody, anywhere of any kind can have that experience. | |
| It's, you know, it's not unique to people in the music business. | |
| Might just be a case of, you know, these people get the exposure, whereas the ordinary man in the street doesn't. | |
| But there's a huge, huge number of people now worldwide who have these experiences, as indeed I did myself in the 1970s. | |
| I was going to say 1970 see, I've done my research. | |
| Yeah, 1978. | |
| Now, I thought I'd heard most of the big UFO cases from the UK. | |
| You know, we can reel them off, you know, the daddy of them all is Rendlesham Forest. | |
| But this was something that happened in 1978. | |
| And, you know, I'm from the northwest, as you know, and you're from Warrington. | |
| This all unfolded in your area and was quite a big case. | |
| Yeah, I was just, there's a local hill to here, and I was on top of the hill, and I watched this thing come through the steam on a power station and sort of come up the Mersey Valley shining lights all over the place. | |
| And I'm thinking, well, you know, the ordinary average everyday helicopter doesn't come sailing through superheated steam. | |
| So that got my attention straight away. | |
| It came up the Mersey Valley, got to Warrington, and then all the lights went off. | |
| And I just saw this tiny little black dot zip off into the sky. | |
| Fast forward about 11 years, 12 years, and I'm reading a book called Mysteries of the Mid-Mersey Valley. | |
| Jenny Randalls wrote that. | |
| She's a very famous writer. | |
| She's got exactly the same story in it, but from the other side of the power station. | |
| Somebody actually saw it come across Liverpool and coming across from the Wirral. | |
| Now, we have to say, don't we, Mark, that if that had happened a week last Thursday, then, of course, everybody would have taken a picture on their smartphone. | |
| They'd have posted on Facebook and communicated with each other. | |
| So that story would have gone viral very quickly. | |
| Yes, it would have. | |
| But back in 1978, that wasn't so. | |
| So reports could actually remain mutually exclusive for a long period. | |
| Yeah, and of course, cameras were not capable of taking photographs in any kind of resolution in the dark back then. | |
| So even if somebody had managed to try to capture it then, you'd have finished up having to send a negative away to Kodak to be developed and got this horrible image back. | |
| But it also turns out as well that more recently than that, within the last few years, there were also reports on the same night at the same time from the Wirral, from an air pilot and several other people. | |
| So very recently, I've linked them all together and submitted them to a book that one of Philip's friends is putting together of reports. | |
| And it turns out I wasn't unique in seeing it by any means. | |
| Interesting. | |
| And this thing flew through the steam of a power station. | |
| On a power station. | |
| If you look across, if you get in the train, I seem to remember, if you go, I think if you're going to Manchester, you go across and I think you pass Warrington and you can see those, I don't know if they're still there, but you could see those power station chimneys. | |
| Yeah, there's eight of them. | |
| Fiddler's Ferry Power Station. | |
| Fiddler's Ferry. | |
| Yeah, they're not going to be there much longer, though, because it's decommissioned, so it's coming down soon. | |
| But yes. | |
| So whatever it was was capable of withstanding the extreme temperature hostile conditions of whatever is emitted from one of those chimneys. | |
| Yes, it is. | |
| And a lot of people witnessed it. | |
| And apparently you reconstructed this for a TV show, didn't you? | |
| You're moving slightly further forward here. | |
| That is a slightly different account because you're on Europe's Roswell now. | |
| Okay, this is the case from Aberystwyth. | |
| This is the Aberystwyth one. | |
| It was something that came down in 1983. | |
| And I was contacted by one of the people from the UFO, local UFO crash retrieval team, who'd actually got pieces of that crashed vehicle, which got my attention as an archaeologist. | |
| And what they were hoping to do was go back and see if they could dig anything else up. | |
| But sadly, the site had been pretty well cleared by the MOD and the people way back in the 1980s. | |
| So what do people think? | |
| You said that there were pieces of something that had been recovered but had been taken away. | |
| This was 1983. | |
| It was Aberustwith, which is, you know, out West Wales. | |
| Yeah, a little village called Planillar, which is just outside Aberystwyth, is where it actually came down. | |
| It hit trees and it shattered. | |
| And you had all these pieces of tin foil and metal and all sorts of things all over the place. | |
| And I've seen two pieces of the foil and about four pieces of the metal. | |
| And all they know about it to this point is that it's a highly advanced alloy of geralamine, which is something that's used in fighter aircraft nowadays, but still not to the standard of what was in these fragments. | |
| And of course, back in 1983, 83 officially, that didn't exist. | |
| They didn't have it. | |
| So also there's a rubberized substance on it, which remains unidentified, which is in hexagons. | |
| And it looks like a very large form of graphene, which again, again, we're working on now. | |
| I mean, I know that the National Physical Laboratory in Teddington are working on graphene at the moment. | |
| They've got a department that does that. | |
| But that's now. | |
| That's not 1983. | |
| We didn't know what graphene was then in those days. | |
| No, in the 1990s, we didn't know what it was either. | |
| But go ahead. | |
| So, no, that's interesting. | |
| You said that you saw this material. | |
| Yes, I've actually handled it. | |
| There's a tiny little piece of it that I've got in a keyring because one of the crash investigators, a chap called Gary Rowe, broke one of the pieces up into 100 keyrings because he said, right, if anyone turns up at my front door, if I get the men in black with the dark glasses and they want it back, I'm going to give all these keyrings away to 100 different people, and if they try and take the material back, I'll just tell them to surrender these key rings. | |
| So I've got this little round perspex lens that has a piece of it in the middle of it, which is coming with me to the Awakening Expo in Blackpool this month because I'm on there on the 24th of April. | |
| I'm with Paul St. Clair and various other people, I think. | |
| Eric von Daniken's the one that's yes to mind and yeah, he's there. | |
| Oh, I must try and book him in, Mark, my producer. | |
| Eric von Daniken. | |
| He's been on the show before. | |
| He's very good. | |
| He's always a draw. | |
| So look, I'm sorry for diverting you slightly. | |
| We will talk about the crystal skulls and the ancient civilization. | |
| Of course we will. | |
| But this was the case that you reconstructed. | |
| Who do you think knows the truth of this then? | |
| You know, if that material, most of it was taken away, I know you made some of it into keyrings, but those bits that weren't made into keyrings, what happened to them and who knows what that might be? | |
| Well, it was Gary that did the keyrings because he's the one that possesses all the material and he's got it in storage and he was part of the crash retrieval team. | |
| So I've only got a tiny piece about the size of my fingernail. | |
| Yes, at least it's here. | |
| And so has 100 other people, plus Gary, plus some members of his team. | |
| Yeah, so I, yeah, basically that crash, I reconstructed it for Europe's Roswell, which was the DVD. | |
| And we went into loads of detail looking at that, but it was conspicuous by what was absent because, you know, your witnesses, your debris, all the rest of the stuff that normally goes with that sort of thing. | |
| Nobody was talking. | |
| You know, there was only one newspaper article. | |
| And it was like almost the reverse. | |
| You know, normally you get somebody saying, oh, we saw all these lights and a big explosion and loads of people, you know, this, that, and the other. | |
| Well, we'd got the opposite. | |
| We'd actually got pieces of this thing and then nothing else. | |
| But there's a lot of military activity. | |
| I can remember, look, you know, being, as you know, I'm from Liverpool. | |
| So a lot of my holidays when I was a kid were out to Langothlin and then further out west to places like Aberystwyth and sometimes into mid-Wales, places like McHuntleth and places like that, where there's an awful lot of Air Force activity I've seen. | |
| Do we think that there could be some kind of, you know, there might be a secret but military explanation for this? | |
| I'm going to say from an archaeological point of view, yes, I kind of agree with you. | |
| I think something was going on at that point. | |
| But when people were asked at the time, the MOD and one or two other folks commented and said, well, we don't know what it is. | |
| It's not one of ours. | |
| But that back then would have been the standard line. | |
| You know what I mean? | |
| Nowadays, presumably, you know, this material is being used. | |
| So they must have had a prototype version of whatever they've got now. | |
| There's a lesson, isn't there? | |
| For now. | |
| You know, we've got all of these UFO debates happening there, and we had the hearings in Washington May 17th. | |
| A lot of people saying we're getting somewhere with all of this, and some people saying it's all a cover-up, and we're never going to get anywhere with all of this. | |
| But, you know, that was a very interesting case. | |
| And if we had that material then, which you wouldn't have thought we would have, then I wonder what we've got. | |
| The point that I'm making in a very circuitous way is I wonder what we've got now that we might perceive to be extraterrestrial. | |
| I'm not dissing the UFO movement because I'm very interested and involved in it, but there might be a lot of stuff that is decades ahead of its time. | |
| Yeah, well, the famous one was the 1990s. | |
| I mean, over Winter Hill, while we're up here, you've got the famous black triangles, which are these triangular things with a light on each corner. | |
| And everybody denied that these things existed, but there were literally hundreds of people, saw them zipping over Winter Hill quite frequently. | |
| And then sooner or later, the MOD came out and said, yeah, you know, they're drones. | |
| They're ours. | |
| We're test flying, you know, stealth drones over that area. | |
| So sooner or later, you know, as you rightly say, some of these UAPs will turn out to be man-made. | |
| But we have to say that in 1993, around Aberustwyth, there were no drones that we knew about. | |
| So how interesting is that? | |
| Well, as far as we know, I think is the point. | |
| All right, you've been very good to talk about that, Mark. | |
| So I'm gonna get onto the, here is the, There's a lot to talk about here. | |
| The book, which I read through over this weekend, contains a lot of stuff that some people might think is unconnected. | |
| There's a lot of, I mean, if I may say so, it's somebody who's been a news person and has written for a living for a lot of his life. | |
| It's very nicely written, this book, if I may say so. | |
| Thank you. | |
| Thank you. | |
| But there is a lot of material about the importance of the human head through history and how various groups of ancients venerated it or tried to change it in some ways. | |
| But there's also the discussion of crystal skulls. | |
| So I guess why did you choose to do these things that might seem a little disparate in this one connected way and put them all in one book? | |
| It's a double answer, a very simple answer. | |
| Human heads. | |
| Everybody has one. | |
| Everyone's had one. | |
| Everyone's got one. | |
| And chances are everybody will have one. | |
| Well, I think we can agree on that. | |
| So as an archaeological historical link, you know, you couldn't really go much better than that. | |
| And for me, the fascination was in the fact that we've got a lot of heads of other species of human beings. | |
| And we've got a lot of heads that go back tens of thousands of years, and in some cases, fossil heads, which go back hundreds of thousands. | |
| So that then formed the absolute literal perfect peg to hang your hat on, if you'll pardon the pun, because it strang right through all of the different subjects that I wanted to touch on. | |
| And then you, of course, you've got the crystal side of it, and then all the other subjects that revolve around that particular choice of material for that particular subject. | |
| So really, once you've got the handle on that, I mean, the clue literally is, you know, it does what it says on the cover. | |
| You know, you've also got the mystical history of glass and the extinction of the world is the subtitle. | |
| That literally summarizes where we're going with it. | |
| That's the journey through the disparate material, if you like, the stuff that's harder to pull in. | |
| But what I tend to do is I tend to throw all these things out there. | |
| And then by the time you get to the end of a chapter, it pulls them all together. | |
| And hopefully people will have that sort of wow moment, you know, the wow factor when things connect and the penny drives. | |
| Well, that's the hallmark of the great storyteller. | |
| One of the mysteries that you visit is something that I've talked about on this show before, and it is quite fascinating. | |
| Those civilizations from which elongated skulls have been found. | |
| Ah, yes. | |
| And there's a lot of debate about whether these elongated skulls might be some kind of variant of us, maybe some kind of alien connection, or indeed, it's a horrible, horrible thought, but in some civilizations it was seen to be quite fashionable to have an elongated head. | |
| And so they would try to mold a child's head. | |
| It's horrific to think of, to be that kind of shape. | |
| What conclusions did you come to about that? | |
| Well, if you stick with the facts, if you kind of go with what we know, the more evidence that's coming out, the more it looks like there was a genetic species of humans that grew that way, naturally. | |
| That's one of the things you need to be aware of. | |
| But as you rightly say, there's also the artificially stretched craniums where for some reason, humans thought it was going to be good to try and copy these guys with the bigger heads. | |
| Now, as an archaeologist, prehistorian, etc., it would have took a lot of time and a lot of effort and a tremendous amount of know-how to do that. | |
| So the question that I was struggling with is why, what advantage do those people gain by taking the trouble to make somebody's head, you know, two or three times bigger to copy the people who were already that way? | |
| So what we're interested in is not the copying necessarily. | |
| That tells us that there was something or someone important being copied. | |
| So what do we know about that which is being copied? | |
| Well, I mean, to cut it as short as I possibly can, years ago I saw a Paracas skull from South America in one of Eric's books, coincidentally. | |
| And he's got this Paracas skull in there. | |
| It's probably the biggest one I've ever seen. | |
| It's three and a half times the size of, you know, the cranial capacity of a modern day human. | |
| And, you know, it's fact, it exists. | |
| It's materially there. | |
| So the guy that was walking around with that head had a brain inside it that was three and a half times the size of ours. | |
| Now, I was thinking, supposing he was lucky enough to be born with an IQ similar to Einstein. | |
| Well, you're talking about a guy there with three and a half Einsteins stacked on his shoulders. | |
| So I thought, get 10 of them in a room, walk into the room and go, how'd you build a pyramid? | |
| And two minutes later, the 10, like, you know, three times Einsteins have suddenly scribbled something on a piece of paper and gone, there you go, that's how you do it. | |
| What we've got to, and we're coming to the end of this segment, so I've got to wrap up there. | |
| But the point here is that a lot of researchers are coming to this idea now, and it's, you know, it's dawning in this last 10 years or so, the idea that we are not the coolest kids in the class. | |
| We're not the cleverest that there's ever been here. | |
| There may well have been civilizations and races who were cleverer than us. | |
| We've simply got to find traces of them on. | |
| Mark Ollie is here. | |
| We're talking about his book, Crystal Skulls and Human Heads. | |
| Mark, years ago, I had a guest on the original version of The Unexplained. | |
| I can't even remember who that was. | |
| And we talked about these crystal skulls. | |
| And all I knew about them is that skulls that looked like reduced in size in many cases, skulls complete with the eye sockets and, you know, the jawline and all the rest of it, have been discovered in various places. | |
| And nobody was quite, this is all I took away from the conversation at the time, and it's years ago. | |
| Nobody knew quite what they were there for, but some people imbue them with capabilities. | |
| And other people say that most of them were made recently and they're fakes. | |
| What's the interest for you in these? | |
| Okay, I ended up with one. | |
| I actually have one. | |
| Have you got it with you? | |
| Have you got it there? | |
| No, I haven't. | |
| I'm sorry. | |
| It's packed ready to go off to the expo. | |
| But yes, it's basically it's an Aztec one, which probably dates about five or six hundred years ago. | |
| I think we've actually got some, sorry to jump in here. | |
| I think we've got some rather exciting pictures that we can flash. | |
| Is this your skull? | |
| I mean, your crystal skull. | |
| That's mine, yeah. | |
| That's the one I've got. | |
| And that light in the eyes, is that just a photographic artifact or is that really there? | |
| Yeah, it's the way it lights up when you apply digital light to it. | |
| It's just, it's come out that way. | |
| There you go. | |
| But you can very clearly see already looking at that, it's handmade. | |
| It's not been produced recently. | |
| It's all been smoothed off by hand. | |
| It's not machine done. | |
| And that's pretty much the definition of what I would say is a proper, a true crystal skull. | |
| It's one that somebody spent hours and hours and hours, days, weeks, even years grinding this piece of rock down to the size of a handmade skull. | |
| Question is when and why? | |
| Well, the answer when would be watch out for all the modern ones because they're all machine-made. | |
| So the handmade ones start about 200 years ago and then go backwards, the ones that are known to exist. | |
| Most of the ones in museums are sort of early Victorian. | |
| In terms of real ones, probably that one I've got, there's one in a ballpark in Coba. | |
| There's one recently found near Mexico City and probably the Mitchell Hedges Skull, which is the very famous, you know, perfect one that has no tool marks on it. | |
| Why? | |
| Well, this is where it gets interesting. | |
| There's two reasons for that. | |
| And I tried to get this over in the book. | |
| When I started looking at what the connection was, if you have a deficiency of quartz silica when you're developing in the womb, it affects the brain and the skull. | |
| That's the two parts of human development that's affected. | |
| So that's a wow factor because I don't know how the heck they knew that in the past when they made the decision to use quartz for the skull. | |
| And the second part of it is there's this belief going around that these things record. | |
| There's some kind of recorder that trapped inside them is information from the distant past, which again, everybody was like, you know, probably when you did your original interview, everyone would have been, well, yeah, very nice. | |
| You know, it's just a legend. | |
| You know, it's made up. | |
| Now we've actually got silica Glass discs that you can write into using lasers in 5D, and these things are manufactured. | |
| Well, they've been manufactured in this country, they're invented in this country. | |
| It's a British thing, so you can now write data into quartz silica and you can get it back with this advanced laser system. | |
| The scientific community knows that this thing now has been developed. | |
| The only question we've got with these crystal skulls is how do we get the data back out of them? | |
| Because we don't know how anything may or may not have been put into the quartz silica. | |
| The other wow factor is the fact that the planet itself is mostly made up of quartz silica. | |
| So you've got us as a carbon life form living on this planet, which is a huge quartz silica crystal flying through the universe. | |
| You know, it's all those connections they seem to have been aware of in the past, and they've made a very careful choice to start to produce skulls out of the crystal. | |
| And indeed, look, a trivial example, but quartz is very important to us these days. | |
| I mean, you know, any of us who've played records on turntables will remember the turntables that we used, say on the front, quartz referenced, and watches that we buy are quartz referenced. | |
| So we know the value of quartz today, but you're suggesting that very ancient people, whoever they might have been, understood the value and power of quartz then. | |
| If you evaluate all of the evidence that's available, it would appear that they were very selective in their choice of materials, going back to historical periods where you would not have expected that to necessarily happen. | |
| I mean, nowadays, obviously, we melt sand to produce glass, so the windows we look through is silica. | |
| Your glasses are made of silica. | |
| Chances are, if they're not plastic. | |
| I'm talking to you on a computer. | |
| Well, I'm talking to you on a computer that's powered by a silicon chip. | |
| You know, we even use it for bath sealer, you know, silicon sealer. | |
| Silica is literally everywhere. | |
| We've really diversified our use of it. | |
| I wouldn't like to guess how far that went in the past, but we have got evidence that they knew about lenses and they knew how to melt glass and manufacture glass. | |
| And then there's a whole plethora of other things they used it for. | |
| Even flint, even the prehistoric flint tools are essentially volcanic silica. | |
| The highest content of flint is silica. | |
| So they were using this stuff all over the place, you know, even for things that we're not using it for. | |
| This is a crazy, crazy example, maybe, or it might be great. | |
| I don't know. | |
| You can tell me. | |
| But if we want to make really accurate recordings of what people hear, then there are people who put microphones in so-called dummy heads. | |
| There's no reason why you should be aware of that recording technique. | |
| But some people who want to make very natural recordings will put microphones inside, literally, a head that looks like your head or my head. | |
| And then you get a very natural, you know, surround sound stereo recording. | |
| And they're called dummy head recordings. | |
| Now, the thought that's just occurred to me is that if somebody, and we haven't really said how far back these things you think go, but if somebody'd understood the importance and the power and the shapeability of quartz, as they saw it, were they trying to create something that could see? | |
| Rather like, you know, the dummy head can make those recordings that are very natural. | |
| Were they trying to create something that could see something as yet undefined? | |
| I haven't put that well, but I'm trying to work out a purpose for anybody in the past wanting to do this. | |
| Well, yes, I suppose it's possible because people tend to talk to the face. | |
| That's where you communicate. | |
| That's where you get your register from. | |
| So if you were going to record something, as you rightly say, maybe it would make sense to make something in the shape of essentially a face. | |
| But it's not a living face. | |
| So maybe that's the reason why they chose to create something based on an absentee face or a blank face or an empty head, which is essentially what a skull is. | |
| And are we saying that some of these things you believe to be very ancient, but appear to have been created in ways that technology, simple technology, tools that would hack away at rock or crystals or whatever, couldn't do? | |
| Are you saying that the anomaly is that these things have been produced to such accuracy at a period long ago and we don't understand why? | |
| Well, if you take the Mitchell Hedges school, that is absolutely scary in its quality. | |
| That has actually been examined using an electron microscope and they can't find any manufacturing marks on that at all. | |
| So that is quite scary. | |
| Schools of that nature, and the one I've got, etc., tend to go back sort of four, five, 600 years and then beyond that. | |
| At the moment, they're experimenting with methods to date stone where they look at the amount of water content that's lost at the surface. | |
| And if you know what the stone is and you know how much water it loses over time, by how dry it is on the outside, you can then estimate when it was carved. | |
| Now, that is very new. | |
| I mean, that is something that most people, probably including yourself, won't have heard of it. | |
| So we'll get a better idea, maybe, of how old these things are, and that will perhaps demystify some of it. | |
| Last question, sorry that time always ticks down on me on this show, but at least we keep it moving. | |
| What's your best guess as to what, if they were created long, long ago, what they were for? | |
| Because we have to say, we haven't said this, but they've been found, we are told, in many different places. | |
| What do you think they were for? | |
| I'm going to go with obviously religious objects, ceremonial, and they embody in themselves all of the known qualities of quartz. | |
| So they're electrical, they're spiritual, they're recorders. | |
| You know, I mean, Tesla came out with a fabulous quote when he said, you know, all crystals are living things. | |
| And I thought he must have been going bonkers the day that he said that. | |
| But now I understand, having studied the silica, that actually they contain within these crystal skulls, within silica crystals, everything that we contain as a human being and that the planet itself contains. | |
| Which is an astonishing thought, really. | |
| And once again, adds to the narrative that, you know, We're not half as clever today as we think we are. | |
| Mark Ollie, thank you very much. | |
| This book, I've got that front page again. | |
| There it is. | |
| It's Crystal Skulls and Human Heads. | |
| There's an awful lot in it. | |
| It's published by Flying Disc Press Philip Mantle. | |
| Thank you very much indeed, Mark. | |
| Thank you for having me. | |
| Mark Ollie in Warrington, Cheshire. | |
| Before that, you heard Jeremy Corbel. | |
| Hope you enjoyed them both. | |
| They were from my TV show. | |
| More great guests in the pipeline here at The Unexplained Online. | |
| So until next we meet, my name is Howard Hughes. | |
| This has been The Unexplained Online. | |
| And please, whatever you do, please stay safe, please stay calm, and please stay in touch. | |
| Thank you very much. | |
| Take care. |