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Aug. 18, 2021 - The Unexplained - Howard Hughes

01:16:48

Edition 566 - Jeffrey Seelman

Jeffrey Seelman is a "cleansing expert" and exorcist - he talks about his story and the way he believes he's helped people...

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	Across the UK, across continental North America and around the world on the internet, by webcast and by podcast, my name is Howard Hughes and this is The Unexplained.
	Thank you very much for all of your communications, the nice emails, all of the things that you say about the show.
	You know, one of the oldest, I think, sayings in showbiz is that you can please some of the people some of the time, but you can't please all of the people all of the time.
	And I've found over the years that when I've been doing this show, sometimes somebody's got in touch with me and they said, I don't like the way you do that.
	And so I've constantly tried to check myself every time I might be about to do that thing.
	And you find yourself driving yourself mad.
	So ultimately, you have to be yourself and you have to hope, you know, within reason, that you're keeping most people satisfied.
	And I think that's the best you can do.
	And that would be, if you're thinking of doing podcasting or broadcasting radio, that would be my advice.
	It's very wise to listen to people when they tell you things because a lot of the time they've got a good point.
	So I take on board everything that people say and I think about it and I check particular podcasts and broadcasts out to hear where I might have been going wrong or getting it right.
	I think that's important.
	You know, I've always been a bit of a perfectionist about these things and the one thing about perfection is that most of us will never attain it.
	But it's fun trying.
	Thank you very much for being part of the show.
	If you want to get in touch with me, go to my website, theunexplained.tv, designed and created by Adam.
	Send me an email from there.
	And if your email requires a response, then of course it will get one.
	And don't forget, when you get in touch, tell me who you are, where you are, and how you use this show.
	I've had some fabulous emails lately from people that I've never heard of before, heard from before.
	And it's just nice when new people get in touch.
	And I've said it before, but when they get in touch and say, I've been listening for years, but just never got in touch, that really gives me a warm feeling.
	And on some of the days we've had recently here in London, I've needed a warm feeling because it's been so damn cold and rainy.
	That's a whole other story.
	No weather talk.
	Okay, I'm going to get straight into the guest on this edition of The Unexplained now.
	It is Jeffrey Sealman.
	And some of you might not like this, okay?
	Because we're talking about things that are psychic and spiritual and stuff like that.
	And I know that it makes some people angry.
	So if it is something that is going to make you angry and bang your head on the table, I don't want to be responsible for that.
	Best to leave this one out of your catalogue.
	But if you're fascinated by these things, come with me for the ride with Jeffrey Sealman.
	He's been featured on the biggest show of this kind in the world on the radio recently, number of times.
	He's done things like the sci-fi channel in the US.
	Let me tell you about him before we get to him.
	He's in Milwaukee.
	He's a professional clearing expert, a psychic, an exorcist, an author.
	He's had an amazing life, and he's going to tell you about that.
	And we'll also talk about some of the stuff that he does where he deals with entities, negative emotions, stuff like that.
	So, all right, it's not Bigfoot, it's not science, it's not space exploration, it's not UFOs this time.
	This is what it is.
	So I hope that you can come along with me on the journey on this one.
	I think that's more or less everything that has to be said.
	So, without further ado, as they used to say on entertainment shows when I was a little kid, let's get to Milwaukee now.
	Jeffrey Sealman is there, and I'll say, Jeffrey, thank you very much for coming on my show.
	Thanks for having me, Howard.
	Hey, Jeffrey, thank you very much for doing this.
	Over the years, close on 20, that I've been doing The Unexplained, both on the radio in various places and online, I don't think until now I've ever spoken to anybody from Milwaukee, so I'm delighted to be doing that.
	I thought Milwaukee, and you've heard this one before, was famous for beer, not spirits.
	It was.
	We're famous for drinking beer, Howard.
	That is still going on.
	We have the largest music festival in the world.
	A long time ago, I think really when I was growing up still, we were famous for having most of the breweries, the larger breweries, in Milwaukee, Wisconsin.
	That's how we really became famous for what we do.
	I thought Anheuser-Busch was there.
	What weren't they?
	I'm not sure if Anheuser-Busch was here or not.
	I know that they were in St. Louis in the United States.
	Every other brewery certainly was.
	And so when I was growing up in Milwaukee a long time ago, it was really popular for people who even lived in our city to take brewery tours.
	And it was a great way to see the beer being made.
	And then, of course, at the end of the tour, we would all get some beer, you know, not to take home, but we just would drink it at their bar inside of the brewery.
	And just so you know, a long time ago, before a lot of laws were enacted, people would actually drink beer on the job at the breweries.
	Yeah, and I think a lot of things have changed.
	One of these days I'm going to share with my listener, when I started as a radio journalist doing news in Liverpool, I think I can probably tell this story now, but they start you off doing the overnight shift, and you have to do 10 hours and you read the news right the way through the night.
	And I was only a kid.
	And the colleague who was teaching me rather liked a leavening glass of beer or lager, as we call it over here.
	And she said to me, when she was teaching me, she said, okay, I'll bring it in tonight and you can bring it in tomorrow.
	So each night of the nights she was training me to do that gig, she would bring in a can of beer for both of us.
	And I would, you know, successive nights we'd swap kind of thing.
	And we'd have a can of beer.
	The thought of having a can of beer when you're working these days is just astonishing.
	It sounds like a million years ago.
	It was the 1980s, but I think everything was different then.
	So just, I'll share with you the full story.
	It'll all be in my biography.
	Jeffrey, thank you, like I say, for doing this.
	The first question, I think it's an important one, just as a kind of mission statement for what we're about to do, really.
	What do you think it is that you provide for people?
	I clear people and Property of negative emotional energies, which is something like an emotional sweat, Howard.
	I also, when necessary, am able to disconnect and banish negative spirits of different varieties.
	And this does happen to people.
	It's not as common as just people picking up or generating negative energy from other people and also generating these things from themselves.
	So energy is a real thing.
	It's not visible to the naked eye.
	So my job is to make people clear.
	Essentially, not of all emotional energy.
	I only have an effect, the work that I do, upon negative emotional energies.
	And that makes people feel a lot better, clears up their mind, their body.
	It does not change their perceptions or their feelings about different things in the world.
	It only really just releases negative emotional energies.
	And when it comes to negative and demonic spirits, I'm also quite capable of dealing with these things as well.
	Okay.
	I want to do this, and we'd agreed to do it this way, so I know it's okay.
	In two halves, two segments.
	Your life story first, which is astonishing because it begins when you're very young, your involvement in these things.
	And then we'll talk about the work that you do and the clearing of entities and making people, you say, happier, which is interesting.
	You know, I watched a TV interview with you, a TV feature on you from a few years ago.
	And I'm fascinated.
	I get emails, though, Jeffrey, from people telling me that all this stuff is hoo-ey and criticizing me for talking to people who do the stuff that you do.
	What would you say to them?
	Everybody has their own unique experiences, and they're certainly welcome to their opinions.
	And if they haven't really have felt these things or attributed these things to their personal experiences, it's understandable to me that they would say that there is nothing happening on a non-physical level, that everything happens on a physical level.
	And so these people who feel this way, I have a great respect for.
	I understand how they might come across these things.
	It's just not my experience, and it's also not the experience of a great portion of our world's population that has had some kind of unique experience, either positive or negative, with something that they do not understand.
	I think sometimes when I get people contacting me saying, nothing ever happens to me, I don't believe this stuff.
	I just kind of think, because I've had a life that's been full of weirdness and coincidences that I have not asked for.
	They've just come to me.
	And, you know, I'm kind of convinced that there's more to this life than we see.
	But sometimes, you know, I'll get emails from people saying, I don't believe in this stuff.
	It doesn't happen, period.
	And what I would be inclined to say to some of those people, and they might be right, who knows?
	I'm not here to judge.
	But maybe they haven't noticed some of the stuff that happens.
	And, you know, maybe it still is, but that's a whole other issue.
	Let's get to your life story then, which is pretty unique.
	This started for you, I understand, at the age of four.
	Really from the first night that I was born.
	You know, I think of all the radio and television shows that I've done over the last few decades that even I was told the first night that I was born, you know, they put me in the nursery after my mother, an exhausting birth,
	she said to me later on, as the years progressed, that I raised my head up on my arms and opened my eyes when they put me in the nursery and started watching the nurses walk by the windows and walk through the nursery.
	And they ran into my mother's room and said, you know, your son is kind of checking us out.
	And I thought, you know, and it was, I think it started with all of that.
	You know, I just was aware.
	I was able to see something that was unknown to me early on in my life, which I didn't know what was happening.
	Essentially, these beings that were in even when I first started school at age three or four years old, I didn't know who they were.
	They were adults.
	They were very humanoid in the classroom and nobody else seemed to see them.
	Also, when I was four years old, I was sleeping one evening and I woke up and there were two, what I thought was giant eyes in my room that were looking at me and essentially some kind of creature or something.
	I immediately, you know, kind of sat up in bed.
	I was terrified.
	I was four years old.
	This would have been 1963.
	And as my eyes grew accustomed to the darkness, Howard, I had my door cracked open a little bit, as a lot of children do.
	I noticed that it was actually two little beings there, maybe a few meters high, you know, three meters or so, two meters high, something like that.
	And so one of them moved over.
	It almost seemed like one of them sensed that I was afraid.
	What I saw on their chest was some kind of mechanical or electronic gear.
	Either they were wearing them around their neck or they were somehow fastened to their identical, what I would consider to be uniforms.
	And one of them moved over to the side of my bed a little bit closer to me.
	And I had the feeling that they were doing so in reaction to my fear because I simply, I at first thought it was some kind of weird giant spider or something.
	I didn't know.
	And so it moved around to, one of them moved around to the side of my bed and both of them were just looking at me.
	And Howard, I was really more fascinated looking at their electronics.
	Even at that age, I was very fascinated with everything technical.
	And so even more looking at what I could see of their faces and their size.
	And maybe here in the United States, we use feet more than meters.
	So I think really looking back a meter and a half, you know, maybe three or four feet tall.
	No, no, we can't.
	I was educated in feet and inches.
	It wasn't later until we did.
	We have to do both here, which is a real pain.
	I understand.
	So four years of age, though.
	Yeah, four.
	Yeah.
	Three feet tall.
	Four years of age.
	I'm amazed that you can remember that stuff.
	I can't forget.
	It was something that was really burned into my memory right there because when you see wideawake, two obviously alien creatures, you know, they had uniforms on.
	It was exactly the same outfits.
	They had technology on their chest, which I had never seen, which did not exist at the time.
	The closest I can really get to it, really, and describe it to your listeners would be essentially self-illuminating lights that did not shine brightly in my face, but were very visible.
	And what they did, I do not know, but I seemed to really gravitate towards these electronic devices that they were wearing, not because I felt that it was something driving me towards that.
	I was really just kind of like, wow, I wish I had that, one of those.
	And it's kind of how I felt at the time.
	At the same time, I was terrified.
	And it really didn't go on real long.
	They never attacked me.
	I didn't feel any kind of threat of any kind, Howard.
	What happened was eventually I got up and I ran towards my door and out the door and down the hall to my parents' bedroom, screaming, mommy, there are aliens in my bedroom.
	That's interesting.
	Four years of age, you had the thought that they were aliens.
	Yeah, yeah, yeah, they looked like aliens.
	They certainly did not look humanoid.
	They certainly had two arms and two legs from what I could tell, but their faces did not look anything like our faces.
	And so that's how I knew they were aliens, that they didn't look anything like us.
	They didn't seem to have a nose.
	I thought I saw a couple of holes maybe where they might have some kind of breathing apparatus.
	And they didn't seem to have any, they had a mouth, but they didn't have any lips.
	Okay, now you ran to your mom and dad and you said, mommy, daddy, there are aliens in my room.
	You were four years of age.
	What did they say?
	My mother came running out with me to the bedroom because she just did.
	Later on, she would tell me that this is not the only time this had happened and this is not the only time where I had run screaming into the bedroom complaining about things and also other things that I was doing that were very interesting.
	And so she said later on, not that night, but I mean later on as the years progressed, that she believed me, that she was really not surprised that there were aliens in my bedroom, she said.
	She goes, Jeffrey, that was the kind of thing that would happen to somebody like you.
	Oh, God.
	So they knew you were different.
	They were aware of that from the get-go by the sounds of it.
	In one of the accounts that I've been checking out to do with you today, when you were a kid, you also saw what you describe as an electric man in the basement.
	That was one of the things that happened that very, I think that very same year, because we moved several miles away about in the next year or so.
	Yeah, for some reason I was sleeping, Howard, and I thought that I should go to the basement door.
	Why, I don't know.
	This is something I would not do.
	I was four years old or so.
	And I did it.
	I went out down the hallway through the kitchen and I opened up this door to the basement, which downstairs we had sort of a family room with a television and some chairs and all that.
	It was carpeted.
	It was actually very nice.
	And I saw standing at the bottom of the stairs this creature that was much taller.
	I didn't really necessarily think this was of alien nature.
	I didn't really know.
	But it was just staring up at me and it was simply glowing like fire.
	But I saw its eyes and it did have a mouth, but it didn't really look very much like a human.
	Yes, it had two arms and two legs, but again, it was simply, it looked like it was made of electricity or fire or something.
	I'd never seen anything like it.
	And of course, I yelled out again.
	I remember doing that.
	And mom, there's an electric man or something in the basement.
	And she came out, of course, again and had to make sure the coast was clear.
	And not really surprised.
	One of the things that was going on at the time was that I would say things to her and my father, like, grandmother's going to call at 9.20 in the morning or 9.33 in the morning or in the afternoon or something.
	And sure enough, every time that this would happen, this would happen.
	And it would really have, it was really very handy for my mother and very frightening for my father, who's a nice guy, really nice guy, but he also is really not into this stuff.
	And so it kind of frightened him a little bit.
	And I was told later on, you know, by my mother as the years progressed, we would talk about these things.
	I had really forgotten a lot of that, meaning that when I, you know, telling her that things were going to happen the next day and people were going to call at certain times.
	And really, Howard, over the years, I think that I've lost that talent probably from not using it.
	It's premonition, isn't it?
	You were having, at a very young age, premonitions.
	If you were able to say that grandmother's going to call at 9.33 a.m.
	Well, we know the term in nature.
	I used to have a dog when I was a kid and Nishka, the dog, would know when I was coming home from school and she'd be sitting in the porch waiting for me to come home 20 minutes before I was home.
	She just knew.
	So, you know, maybe it's some kind of ESP, but there was something going on with you.
	Yeah, very early on.
	I had the feeling that these aliens that were there had been there before.
	It was just a feeling I had, even at a young age like that, and that they wanted me to see them.
	I don't believe that possibly they were...
	I mean, it's possible they were working on me at different times and different nights, but the idea...
	Now, my listeners don't like it when I jump in, but I just got to jump in and ask this.
	Otherwise, we're going to miss something here.
	You said working on you.
	Yes.
	I had a feeling all through my childhood that these alien visitations, which none of them were abductions that I remember, I had no positive or negative feelings.
	I had no negative feelings about aliens, Howard.
	I felt that they had been there before and were coming back again.
	But this time it was more of an introduction as, you know, here we are.
	This is who we are.
	And they oddly were kind of familiar to me, like somehow that this was not the first time or the last.
	And it certainly would not be the last I would learn later on in my life as things progressed.
	But I had felt that maybe it was not the first time either that they wanted me to see them and know that they were not here to harm me.
	They made no advancements towards me besides one of them walking around the side of the bed and had stopped and not come any closer to me.
	And I felt that they were not there to attack me in any way.
	It was just me being frightened because I had never seen an alien before.
	Were you wondering why do these people, these beings, these creatures, whatever they were, why are they interested in me?
	I certainly wondered at the time as things progressed later on, you know, just jumping way ahead just for a second, when I started getting involved in my work about 1990 or so, I had thought that it was really to let me know that things were not going to be business as usual.
	That expect the unexpected, Jeffrey, and that it really was an introduction, you know, that here we are.
	We're not here to hurt you.
	This is what we look like.
	We're not really disguising ourselves.
	We know we don't look like humans.
	And yes, we got some great technology that we have because when my mother and I came running back into the bedroom, which was immediately, that they were gone.
	And there was no way to get past my parents' bedroom unless they had crossed that way.
	So however they got out of the bedroom, unless they opened some kind of window and then closed it really quickly, which I don't think really happened.
	It was so quick.
	We came running in the bedroom immediately, my mom first, of course, that I thought probably that the technology that they had was able to, one of the things that it might have been able to do was transport them from one place to another.
	Okay.
	Were you a normal, happy kid?
	Did you have a normal, happy home life?
	It was pretty good at home.
	I think it was a normal home life.
	The problem for me was at school, Howard, I was very sensitive to emotional energies.
	I went to a very nice school.
	It was a very beautiful brick building.
	It also happened to be the school that both of my parents had gone to.
	Elementary school, we call it here in the United States, meaning grades one through six.
	Essentially, you're seven years old through age 12.
	But they had gone there years before.
	And so it was an older school.
	And I always felt a huge amount of emotional energy in the classroom, even though I didn't really know what it was.
	At the same time, I could see maybe three or four different people who were adults that seemed to be a little bit luminescent, meaning that I could kind of see through them a little bit.
	And they seemed to be gravitating towards different individuals, like standing over these individuals, like my classmates who were my age, you know, six, seven, eight years old.
	And they seemed to be, it almost looked like they were helping them with their studies, helping them with their work.
	That's interesting.
	Did your teachers and the other kids think you were a freaky kid?
	Yeah, well, what happened was, was that that didn't scare me so much.
	I did Ask my teachers, who are these people?
	There aren't any people, Jeffrey.
	And so, but what happened was very often there would be one spirit that would take a look at me and come at me.
	And they would not walk towards me.
	They would actually like float fast.
	And it would be terrifying because it was like, well, what is this about?
	And they seem to be gravitating towards maybe some people in the classroom or person that maybe they weren't so happy and they were having difficulties and they were kind of angry.
	And I noticed this and then they would notice I could see them and they did not like the fact that I could see them.
	This was not true of the spirits that were helping other people with their studies.
	They might turn around and look at me and then kind of smile and look back to what they were doing, standing over the shoulder of a student working on their assignment.
	And then there'd be a spirit that seemed to be roaming around the classroom that seemed to be trying to scare people, even though they could not be seen, that they seemed to be pouring out a lot of emotional energy.
	And to me, you know, making these really frightening faces, especially at me, knowing that I could see them.
	And sometimes it led to me running out of the classroom, which led to a lot of problems in the very early years of being in school.
	I can bet it did.
	Your parents at one stage were worried about you, weren't they?
	I think they were so worried about you that they had you put in hospital for a little while, isn't that so?
	Just for just overnight.
	Essentially, it was really some kind of testing for psychic ability.
	They had, I didn't even really understand what was going on.
	I didn't know.
	It was at a major hospital and they put electrodes all over my head.
	And then they had asked me to go to sleep, which did not happen because I could not sleep on command.
	And at that time, I was having terrible trouble sleeping anyway.
	And of course, I'm just a young kid.
	I have electrodes all over my head.
	I didn't really know why.
	And I didn't really get any sleep.
	And their diagnosis was that this is a very aware child and seems to have, you know, maybe some extra perceptual qualities.
	This is really all that my parents would tell me at the time.
	And even later on, that especially my mother, my father kind of gravitated away from me in all of this as the years progressed.
	It just happened.
	And so my mother would fill me in on some of the things that she perceived at the time that a lot of interesting things were happening to me when I was young and never really stopped.
	I was unable to get lost.
	This was something else that would happen when I was a child.
	I could simply find my way out of anywhere.
	Did not need a compass or anything.
	Put me in the middle of the woods and I could find my way right out, even if I had never been in the woods before.
	Jeez, that's a useful skill for a kid.
	It was.
	I think also you found yourself, and I don't know whether this made you popular with your classmates, but I think you found yourself, you say, getting warnings about things that were about to happen.
	All kids do naughty stuff.
	I did when I was a kid, a lot of it.
	Unfortunately, I found myself hit and caught a lot of the time.
	You didn't.
	I never did, Howard.
	It's glad you mentioned the word naughty because that's what I was.
	And this mainly happened when I was going to high school, ages 14 to 18.
	I also went to the same high school that my parents did, which is interesting.
	And it was also a very beautiful building, brick building, but it was also very old and had a long history.
	And so back in the night, this would be back in the 1970s, 1974 to 1978, right before I went into the United States Air Force.
	And so I always had this ability to see when trouble was coming for some reason.
	I would get this weird feeling inside of me that somebody negative was about to come into my view or play, you know.
	And so when I was in high school, the high school was on a very busy, the corner of two busy streets.
	And what people would do is they'd go outside between class or during class or whenever, and they would either smoke some marijuana or cigarettes or something like that.
	I did not smoke cigarettes.
	And so I would be out there sometimes with these kids, maybe a group of five to 10 children.
	And I would get this feeling that either the police would come around the corner or that a teacher or the principal, as they called it, would come out the door, a vice principal who always was roaming around for some reason looking for things.
	And I'd say, you know what, I don't feel right.
	I'm going to get out of here.
	It started that way.
	And lo and behold, it would happen.
	A police officer would drive around the corner and slow down and, hey, you kid, stop doing that.
	Or that a teacher would come out the door and pretty much say the same thing.
	Hey, kid, stop doing that.
	You get, you know, on school grounds, you know, and that's pretty much all that really happened during the 70s.
	Does that still happen to you?
	Yeah.
	I mean, I certainly get warnings, Howard, when negative things, when I feel that around negative people, I think your listeners out there could probably really relate to that, you know, sort of an intuitional feeling that something is not right.
	You're in the wrong place, that you don't trust a person you just met or have known for a while, or you don't trust the environment.
	I think that this is a very common feeling.
	It's just something that would happen to me all the time.
	Yeah, no, I totally get that.
	You know, I've certainly in a working situation when I was younger, beginning of my career, I was doing a lot of work for the BBC.
	And there were, probably still are, you know, some people that you wouldn't want to be working with that were not, I felt, in my opinion, particularly trustworthy or nice.
	And sometimes I would go and work for these people, even though I'd have a bad feeling about them.
	And it would always turn out badly.
	You know, I'm going back now to the 1980s, the beginning of my career.
	And I get that fact.
	I think a lot of people experience those things, but you did to a massive degree.
	And it was quite useful because I never did get caught.
	Now, I never committed any major crimes.
	I mean, nothing like that ever happened, but I never got caught doing anything.
	And such is true to this very day as I sit here in my studio and I'm 61 years old and still haven't got caught doing anything.
	And that was all true through the United States Air Force that I served in afterwards as well, that I always saw trouble coming and I learned to pay attention to it early on.
	And it was really beneficial to me and people around me.
	Can you give me, and I'm sorry, once again, I'm doing that thing.
	I'm jumping in here.
	You're talking about knowing that things are going to happen or situations are bad.
	Can you think in your own case of something, maybe when you were in the Air Force or whatever, where you have been pulled from the jaws of disaster?
	Yeah, I'll tell your audience, you and your audience, something I've never ever told anybody on the air.
	I was stationed in the Air Force at the areas, you know, not Area 51, but I worked out at the areas.
	And I had met somebody who was working at a party, at one of my parties, actually.
	And on the Air Force base, we had apartments and he was working on reverse engineering of an alien spacecraft.
	Jeez.
	And it was not at Area 51.
	Actually, they had outsourced it to many of the areas and also some that are not on the map.
	Okay, so what exactly, I mean, did he tell you anything specific about what he was working on, you know, the craft and what he was trying to make out of it?
	Yeah, very much.
	You know, he said that he was one of the best engineers around and that's why they were having him work on it, that the base was not really that far away from the base that I was stationed at.
	And he wanted to, he said that I have no, he said, Jeffrey, I have no idea how this propulsion system works.
	He said he didn't have the whole craft.
	He said they gave him what they thought was the propulsion system.
	And he said, I have no idea how this thing works.
	One of the reasons is, is that I have no idea what it's made of.
	We don't seem to have these elements on our planet.
	We don't, I have no idea what this thing is made of.
	It looks weird.
	It feels weird, but I can't understand how it works.
	I'm trying my best.
	And he said, do you want to see it?
	Oh.
	And I said, sure.
	After a couple of beers, we both had a couple of beers.
	We weren't drunk, but we had a couple of beers.
	And I said, sure.
	He said, you're going to have to, you know, you don't have that security clearance to do that, but you're going to have to get inside of the trunk when we get near the base.
	I can't give the name out of the base because it doesn't, it's not on the map.
	And so we would get in some trouble, even though it's been all these years.
	Was it near Area 51?
	You know, I don't know because I wasn't, what happened was we were driving along.
	I'm not sure.
	It wasn't Area 51.
	I know the name of the base, so it was not Area 51.
	I just don't really want to give it out so I don't get in any trouble because I don't know if that's been released or not.
	But that's fine.
	Anyways, before we got into the main gate, I got into the trunk underneath some blankets.
	And we got through and we went to his apartment.
	It's not like people think who people who have not been in the military.
	We actually have apartments and things like that.
	And we sat there talking and we were just about to go out to the hangar.
	And so we were just discussing how to do it because he said, okay, I have this pass, you know, this electronic thing.
	I slide the card into the deal and then we get into the hangar and I show you and you can touch it and all of that.
	And there's no harm in that.
	Nothing's going to happen.
	And you can take a look at it and whatever.
	I did not have any photography equipment with me that would have been espionage.
	And so I just wanted to see it.
	And so, but he said, I'm not sure if we can get out.
	There is a guard that walks around between these buildings all the time, 24 hours a day, and there are no windows in the building.
	And so just so you know that, you know, we'll be taking our chances coming out.
	Now, he was not trying to talk me out of it because he said, are you ready to go?
	And he was not trying to scare me.
	But I had this feeling that I was going to get caught, not going into the building.
	We could see the guards, you know, or guard, whatever.
	But coming out, we had no idea where the guard would be.
	Now, that's an awfully big desert in Nevada.
	And he may have signed papers, you know, where they would just put him in prison or something like that.
	I don't know what they would do to me.
	But I had this feeling that coming out of the building, that I was going to be caught.
	I was amazed that you weren't caught in the building because even in those days, they would have had motion sensors and various other things.
	You haven't really told me what you saw.
	I didn't go in.
	You didn't go in?
	Okay.
	No, no, I decided that if I went in, it was too late because I thought what came to me, either from my own spirit guides or some warning system inside of me, was, yes, Jeffrey will get inside of the building and Jeffrey will see part of an alien spacecraft.
	not that I've already haven't seen aliens, so I mean, it was kind of like just the icing on the cake, so to speak.
	I was interested, Howard, yes, but I thought, you know what, you're not going to get out of that building.
	Well, I understand that you'd had those experiences all your life, and if it tells you that, maybe you want to go with it.
	But I have to say, if there was any one occasion, even if you did have premonitions and you did have a sixth sense, where you'd say, hang the lot of it, even if I die in the experience, I want to know that we've got these things.
	You know, this is just me.
	I would be inclined to do it, but you didn't.
	Well, I didn't want to die because, like I said, it's a big desert out there.
	And this is the 1970s, and it was a lot easier for people to disappear back then.
	And the Vietnam War had just ended a couple years earlier.
	And it was very different.
	And somebody like me who did not have that kind of security clearance, it was definitely going to be probably a charge of espionage or something.
	Well, they'd have got you for something.
	There's no doubt about that.
	Why did you go there at all then?
	Shoot me and bury me in the desert and say that I died in an accident.
	Sure, no, got that.
	Why did you go anyway, though?
	I mean, if you had a bad feeling about it, why did you go with the guy?
	I didn't get that bad feeling until I got onto his base.
	Got it.
	Okay.
	That simply, it all happened at once.
	We were just about to go out there.
	And all of a sudden, this feeling came over me.
	You are not going to get out of that building.
	And I was not in the mood to die.
	I was like 19 years old.
	I was like, you know what?
	What if I see the propulsion system?
	He can't even figure it out.
	So what I did was this.
	I did this.
	Here was the next best thing.
	I went to speak to somebody in high command, meaning a general who was in charge of everything.
	And I made an appointment to see him.
	I will not name any names, but I simply said, you know, I walked into the office and I was a nobody.
	I really was, you know, I mean, I didn't, I was not an officer or anything.
	And I said, look, we have, everybody's talking about aliens and stuff.
	You know, this is the time when Close Encounters came out.
	It was real popular.
	It really was popular to talk about it, you know, even on the Air Force base, in the bases I worked at.
	People who had not seen anything, we still talked about it in sort of a hush-hush type thing.
	Some people were working around it.
	Some people were not.
	And so I went into this office and I said, General, such and such, I addressed him by name.
	I said, look, I don't, I know I can't speak to the public.
	It's against the law, military law.
	All I want to know is for my personal satisfaction, my reasoning, I'm paraphrasing here, because I was excited.
	I said, look, I just love this stuff, General.
	I just love everything aliens.
	I just do.
	Do we have crashed alien flying saucers, crashed alien craft?
	He said, you're a sealman?
	Yes, we do.
	We do have them here.
	But the public cannot know that.
	They're not going to be able to handle it.
	And it's just going to break up the order of everything.
	They're not ready for it.
	But yes, we have crashed alien craft.
	He did not mention anything about any aliens in custody or dead aliens or anything like that.
	It was a short conversation.
	He said to me that if you bring this up again or repeat this, you know, again, I'll deny that we ever spoke.
	Okay.
	Now, this is some time ago.
	You were like 19.
	It's 40 years ago.
	That guy might have been, I don't know, 50 then, maybe something like that.
	He may not be alive now.
	Will you get to a point where you can name him?
	No.
	No, I wouldn't do that because it was, I promised him I would not.
	It was a gentleman's agreement and that I think I surprised him.
	I think that if I would have simply came in there any other day and asked him the same question, he would have said, get the, you know what, out of here.
	Okay.
	Now the answer.
	I would have not answered that question.
	I think I surprised him.
	I think that he saw that I was really honest, that I just wanted to know for my own personal reasons, you know, that is this happening?
	Do we have these things here?
	And he answered me honestly because I told him I wouldn't talk about it, you know, when I to the media or even to my friends, which I didn't on the base.
	I never mentioned the conversation, but I felt that, you know, years later, it would be okay to say that that conversation existed without naming any names or any particular bases or anything like that.
	Understood.
	You decided in the end the Air Force was not for you.
	Yeah, I was really bad at following orders.
	I never was good at following orders as a child.
	You know, the teachers would tell me to do stuff and it was like, yeah, okay, maybe I was.
	You had mentioned the word naughty.
	It's perfect.
	And so I was always into something.
	And so the same, you know, was true when I was in the service.
	I did have some problems.
	I spent most of my time deliberately stationed at the areas.
	One of the reasons being is that the areas are essentially right outside of Las Vegas.
	You can walk from Area 1 to the downtown Las Vegas in half an hour.
	Is there any record of your military service?
	Do you have photographs?
	Are there any records that you published?
	None that I'd want to share because I did some things that I regret and they did some things to me that they regret.
	And they asked me to do some things that were not proper And legal, and also that which I can't talk about, but they didn't do it.
	At least I didn't do it.
	And also, that I did some things that I shouldn't have done.
	Most of them were not deliberate.
	I can tell you one thing very quickly if you'd like.
	I mean, as far as naughty things, I was actually, sometimes when I wasn't working, I was doing some manual labor and some small work.
	And one of the things I was doing was I was cleaning black widow spiders out from underneath the siding of this one of these buildings with a hose and getting them to come out.
	And then I would squish them with my feet.
	They were very dangerous and they're poisonous.
	You could die from the bite.
	And so they were concerned about it.
	Now, I was interested after work to go downtown and go to this one casino for happy hour.
	And so I had the keys for everything.
	And so I went in this building, which I'd never been in before.
	I had never been in before.
	And I walked into this room and all the telephones were red and nobody was in the office.
	It was a really big office with lots of telephones.
	And so I went in and I somehow got a dial tone, a ringtone off of one of the telephones.
	And I called down to the casino and I said, well, what time is happy hour?
	And they said, well, it's really 24 hours.
	It was 50 cents for mixed drinks, which was really perfect for me.
	I had money, but I had to start it off someplace.
	And I said, great.
	I'll see you after work.
	Thank you.
	And I found out they were recording the conversation because that actually was a command center for a nuclear war.
	Back then, we had the Cold War going on between the Allies and Russia.
	And so we were not on friendly terms, your country, my country, with the Russians.
	And so this was where everybody would run to if there was a scenario of a nuclear war.
	And this is where they ordered strikes from.
	It was an attack base, this particular base out of the city.
	Disguised as a casino.
	No, no, no, no.
	I was calling the casino to see what time happy hour started.
	And I was in this big, huge office with red telephones.
	I was very color conscious, Howard, and all I thought of was, oh, beautiful telephones.
	Red telephones.
	Oh, my God.
	I'm being really, really stupid.
	I'm being so stupid.
	Border border strikes.
	I understand.
	See you by small American fighters on Russian submarines and also aircraft.
	I've got you.
	So you thought you were calling the casino from those red telephones and you were listening in.
	All their phones were bugged.
	My.
	And so the phone call went fine.
	It was a couple of days later when they approached me and hauled me in front of a bunch of generals and colonels and said, you know that that is where we call military nuclear strikes from on this base?
	Not the only place.
	We have NORAD, but there are other places where they also monitor and control other fighter aircraft when they have ships coming at us and all of that.
	I didn't know that.
	Did they kick you out for that?
	No, they just yelled at me a lot.
	All right.
	So I'd been yelled at before.
	I'm sure you had.
	The Air Force was not for you.
	Talk to me because we're going to have to talk about the work that you're doing now, about, if you can sum it up, the path from leaving the Air Force to becoming what you are now.
	Yes, I left a little bit early, but with full honors.
	You know, it's just, I think one of the problems, very quickly, one of the problems was that I kept on spending more time in Las Vegas than on the air bases I was working at.
	I just loved Las Vegas and going to all the shows and having fun.
	And sometimes I wouldn't return on time.
	And so they were kind of tired with that.
	Plus, I refused some orders that were very negative.
	They were probably illegal and they didn't like that.
	And they said, you know, if you just get on an airplane and fly to a destination of your choice, we'll pay for it.
	We'll give you full benefits if you just kind of like leave and just keep your mouth shut and just leave.
	And I did.
	And so it was kind of a happy parting of ways a little bit early.
	And so now we're talking 1982.
	And so what I did was I started to look into some self-help kind of reading.
	I was like, well, what do I do now?
	And so I was reading self-help books.
	And I started to get involved more because I always had an interest in metaphysical topics in the history of spirit communication, how people were protecting themselves, the history of religions, and all these different kinds of subjects, mostly from the reference sections of university libraries.
	So it was really hard to get stuff, you know, stuff that was translated into English at different times.
	And I studied that for years and years.
	And in 1987, some really weird, even weirder things started to happen to me.
	And it was just a few years before I started my work.
	And so the 1980s for me was really about studying the history of all things metaphysical and how it could actually, how it could benefit me, how I could find a footing in my life and really get back into civilian life and find some things to do.
	Okay.
	So fast forward a bit.
	You find yourself going to haunted locations and doing something about it, yeah?
	Yeah, what happened was that I met a girl who was already a psychic and a well-known psychic here in Milwaukee.
	She was doing a lot of radio and she was very accurate, incredibly accurate.
	And she could do readings for anybody anytime.
	And it was just, she was almost always right on everything.
	It was amazing.
	That really didn't interest me very much.
	I just liked her because she liked the television show Star Trek.
	And it really was.
	That really is how what I was most interested in.
	I think that's cool.
	I thought it was interesting.
	So that's kind of how we did that.
	And then she invited me to this Ouija board group that she ended up, she was having for 20 years.
	I didn't know about any of this.
	And I thought, well, you know, I really don't want to get involved in any of these things.
	I see enough things going on myself.
	But I really kind of summoned up the courage and went to one of them and then started going to them.
	The first Ouija board session I went to very quickly that, you know, it was very strange.
	I was actually sitting far away from the table.
	She really didn't know me very well.
	And nobody knew that day that I had been to the doctor as a routine checkup.
	And, you know, when it came, there were questions for people who were just visitors and I was a visitor.
	And so, Jeffrey, do you have any questions?
	And I said, yes.
	Does the board have any messages for me?
	And it said, yes, stay away from sugar.
	And that is exactly what the doctor said to me that afternoon.
	Nobody knew there that I had even been to a doctor, including her.
	And so it was real clear.
	And so that's exactly, it said, you're in perfect health, but try to stay away from the sugar.
	I was eating too much of it.
	And so that message came over the board and it was really intriguing to me.
	So I went to more of these Ouija board sessions and they were very good at it.
	Turns out that some of these people were psychics.
	Some of them were writers.
	Some of them were into all sorts of different jobs, regular jobs.
	Some were teachers, all professional people.
	And that two of them were having problems.
	One was doing readings out of her home, the psychic, and one was a writer.
	And he was trying to get rid of something he felt that was very negative in his home.
	Everybody at this group had tried to help him, and they couldn't do it.
	And they said, Jeffrey, you've been studying this stuff and you have a background in these things.
	And do you want to try?
	Just go over to this guy's apartment and try to get rid of this thing, whatever is in there that he feels is in there?
	I said, sure.
	And I went in there and I just seemed to know what to do.
	It just came to me.
	It was no training.
	I just seemed to know what to do.
	And then it was gone.
	He said, it's gone.
	And so next the psychic said, will you come over to my house?
	And because I think some client left something over, you know, there's, I don't feel comfortable in my own home and I'm doing readings.
	And so I went over to her house and then two hours later, it's gone.
	What can you do?
	Well, thinking back, I'm trying to remember, you know, I seemed to be able to perceive these things that were essentially spirits.
	And I just kind of like threw this energy at them.
	And I didn't really know what I was doing.
	It was kind of like I was winging it.
	And I wasn't doing anything that I had learned.
	I didn't learn how to do that at the time.
	Later on, I was taught by spirits.
	I had some past life memories, things like that.
	But at the time, I just kind of went in there and started throwing energy at what I perceived to be emotional energy, which was always visible to me, even as a child.
	And also what I considered to be something moving in the emotional energy that was not physical, which I determined that was probably a spirit.
	And evidently, my energy was strong enough that in both of these places, it disappeared.
	They had said, look, you got to take this to the public.
	Whatever it is, you have it, you know.
	And I said, well, I guess so.
	I was working for a cable company at the time.
	The internet was not quite out yet.
	And this had been about 1992.
	And I put a small ad in the local newspaper.
	It was a small newspaper.
	It was not the major newspaper.
	It was a smaller one.
	It really had like all the concerts and all the fun things were happening in town.
	But they also had an advertisement section.
	And on the way down there, I turned, it's like my whole body turned to fire.
	It was so weird.
	It was so weird, Howard.
	I couldn't even, it was like on the way down to put this $15 ad, this hopeless little ad in this newspaper that was really about upcoming concerts that, no, I really wasn't thinking much about it.
	I already had a job.
	And I felt like my whole body was on fire.
	And I thought, I'm just about to do the most important thing that I'll ever do in my entire life.
	That's exactly how I felt.
	And I could not get this feeling out of my head.
	I walked down into this office in downtown Milwaukee.
	And I gave him $15 and this little square with a few words in it.
	And I still felt this fire running through me.
	It was strange.
	And it was like, I'm doing the most important thing I'll ever do in my entire life right now, right here.
	And I gave him the money.
	They didn't know anything was going on.
	I didn't act strangely.
	I just gave him the money, gave him the slip for the next week's edition.
	I walked out and about, I started walking.
	I couldn't stop walking.
	And about 10 or 15 minutes later, it all stopped.
	I felt normal.
	And I thought, wow, that was interesting.
	What was that about?
	Well, I was soon to discover, you know, that it was the beginning of my work.
	And really, nobody called me over that.
	What really happened was that they became so interested, this paper, in what I was doing.
	Maybe a couple people called me over a period of, I put it in for a few weeks eventually, but the actual newspaper itself actually said, we want to do a story on you and that and how you think about some of this stuff.
	And it turned out to be like a three-page story.
	I had my picture taken really for the first time.
	I was so nervous, you know, I couldn't even hold still.
	Later, you know, I was always afraid of public speaking.
	And later on, I didn't know that I'd have to face those fears by going on television and doing a thousand radio shows and all of that, facing my fears.
	You know, it was kind of like my fiddler on the roof type moment, looking up at the sky and going, so you guys would actually put me in a business where I'd have to face my fears.
	Boy, sometimes that's a real good thing.
	Give interviews and go on television because one of the first people who called me was the only show in America on television relating to the paranormal, which was called Sightings.
	The only show that was on at that time.
	And they came out and to film me doing an actual exorcism, which was successful in a home, in a condominium.
	It was a person in a condom.
	What was going on with them?
	Three girls, they were about the ages 23 to 25 years old, all professional women, all very nice, all very sane.
	They were living together in a three-bedroom condominium, and they had reported seeing shadows when they were taking showers pass behind the curtain, shower curtain.
	They would wake up at night with indentations next to them in the bed and the feeling that something was holding them down and the feeling that there was something else in the condominium that was watching them.
	And it was just terrifying them.
	And they had seen an ad, that ad in the paper evidently that I had put in, I had in for quite a while, you know, $15 a week or whatever.
	And so what had happened was sightings had called me and they said, what are you working on?
	And I said, well, I really can't talk about it.
	You know, all clients are confidential.
	They said, well, what if you just ask them to call us?
	We'll give you a personal number.
	And I said, okay, I'll call them and they can call you.
	Because I'm really big on privacy.
	I always have been.
	It's like nobody wants to know that I've been in your house or working on somebody unless it's just a personal clearing, which is a great part of my business.
	But so they called Sidings and Sightings said, we'd love to film this.
	We'll come out from Hollywood and we'll film all of this.
	And the girls said, no.
	They said, Jeffrey's scheduled to come out in three days and you can't be out here for five days because of all the camera equipment and all that and scheduling.
	And they said, we can't do it.
	We can't last three days.
	One person is already not living here.
	And they said, great.
	We'll put you in a hotel.
	This is what the girls told me, you know, and sightings eventually.
	We'll put you in a hotel, all of you.
	And then no contact with Jeffrey.
	We'll wait the five days, get the equipment out there, and Jeffrey will come out and do what he does.
	All of this was filmed.
	And none of that was ever, they didn't try to get me to do anything weird or for the cameras.
	The only thing they had me do was a couple of shots walking up the stairs.
	Other than that, they let me do my own thing.
	All of it was completely legitimate, and they wanted it to be legitimate, Howard.
	They wanted it to be legitimate.
	And for people who might be saying, where is all of this stuff?
	I know that some of your stuff is on YouTube, isn't it?
	It's still there, even though it's some years ago.
	You can still see that.
	It was a five-minute segment and five or seven-minute, I don't know how long it was.
	And it was interesting because, I mean, I didn't sleep for three nights before this.
	Not only had I never been on television, I had never been on national television.
	And so, I mean, I was like terrified.
	And even though it was being filmed, I mean, it was not a live broadcast.
	It was like, what, television cameras?
	For me, I mean, it's like, no, I was like, wow, but I have to do this.
	So I went out there and I was sweating.
	And you can even see if you look kind of closely, not my brow so much, but my back.
	It was also a burning hot day in Milwaukee.
	It was a summertime.
	And I went out there and I did an interview with two of the three girls.
	One would still not show up.
	And I just did a clearing.
	I found that there was a negative spirit in the home that was essentially spying on the girls for sexual reasons.
	All three of these girls were very good looking and evidently that the spirit took an interest in them.
	So this was some kind of what, some kind of man who maybe had lived at that address or just some random perverted spirit?
	Random perverted spirit, Howard.
	I believe that he was not connected with these girls in any way, shape, or form and just was wandering around looking for just such, you know, a scenario.
	How terrible for them.
	What exactly did you do to get rid of this thing?
	Well, again, once again, I really didn't know what I was doing.
	I simply started to throw energy around the entire condominium and down into the earth because when the condominium went up, it was not raised.
	It went up three floors, three stories.
	And so I cleared the condominium to the best of my ability.
	And also I found this thing moving around inside of the energy fields.
	And I attacked it, essentially, just by throwing this energy through me that I really didn't know how to do.
	I just, I seemed to know it almost by second nature.
	It was so interesting.
	And so I just did the best job I could and then did another interview after that, which also I was quite terrified about.
	This is 1992, first time on television.
	Just happened to be the only show in America on television that related to the thing.
	Everybody was watching it, everybody.
	And so I didn't even know how it turned out until the girls had called a couple of weeks later and said, Jeffrey, it's gone.
	After you left, it is gone.
	Thank you so much.
	They didn't even mention sightings.
	They said, look, we're back living in the condominium.
	It's not back.
	It left.
	That's amazing.
	In the time that you've been doing this kind of stuff, and I know that you've done a lot of this stuff, some of which has been featured in the media, People have only got to check out your website and they'll see that.
	Have you ever found yourself in a situation where, as some exorcists claim, they are doing battle with something?
	Have you ever had to battle something?
	Right then and there, it was a battle.
	And I can tell you that whenever I'm dealing with a negative spirit, which is about 30% of the time, 70% of the time, I'm just doing clearings on people, just regular people who feel like negative and negative energy from work and things like that.
	Distance work, I work with people from all over the world, Zoom, Skype, you know, pictures and telephone, whatever.
	But in the 30% of my work, there are maybe there is a negative spirit possibly in the home.
	A negative spirit being a person who is dead and continues to do negative things.
	A demonic spirit being a different kind of spirit, much more powerful.
	It might be considered to be the counterpart of an angel.
	And every time that I'm doing this kind of work, there's a battle.
	And so that they also have weapons.
	And as I went through the years, I started to get in contact by spirits who would come to me and say, look, Jeffrey, you're not doing this exactly right.
	Let us teach you how to do this properly.
	And so now I was being trained by spirits and also beginning to have some past life memories, like little bits and pieces of doing this in other past lives and kind of paying attention to that and paying attention to what these spirits were actually showing me, not just telling me in my head, but I could see them and saying, okay, this is what you do.
	This is how you move energy through a person.
	This is how you create a sword out of non-physical energy that can have an effect upon a spirit.
	This is how you create a shield.
	Okay, this is fascinating.
	I've told this story before.
	And, you know, I apologize to any listener who doesn't want me telling it again.
	Just skip the next couple of minutes if you don't want to hear it.
	But I've been trying to get an answer about this for years.
	I was having some in my 20s career issues.
	I'd come across and worked with some people who were not nice.
	And I felt that I'd kind of taken away, well, I don't know whether I felt that then, but I knew there was something wrong, right?
	Something negative.
	And it was my sister who recommended that I went to see.
	And I can't remember her name, and I can't remember which area of London or northwest London this was.
	But I went to this place.
	The old lady there took me into her front room.
	You know, these little houses in London, there's a front room and a back room, the front room.
	And there was a nice sofa in there and maybe a gold fish bowl, I think.
	She closed the curtains, turned the lights out, and put her hands on my head.
	And I saw a burning bright halo of light absolutely shimmer and spin around my head with my closed eyes.
	And there was nothing.
	You know, I wasn't under the influences of anything.
	I hadn't had anything to drink or smoke or anything.
	And she said, that was pretty bad that they put on you.
	It's gone now.
	Is that what you're doing?
	Yes.
	Yes, because we pick up negative emotional energy from other people.
	We can pick it up from places that we have been.
	We can pick it up by, you know, going to different pubs or parties or shopping or at work.
	We can also generate it, and we do, we all generate both positive and negative emotional energies.
	And to me, it's kind of like emotional sweat.
	The positive stuff, Howard, we don't have to worry about.
	It's really not in my domain.
	What I do is I release the negative emotional energies or as much as I can during a clearing, which is the majority of work that I do.
	I also teach people how to protect themselves from these very same things.
	And so I think, you know, what this person was doing, you know, sounds from what he described very valid because we do accumulate emotional energies throughout our lifetime from day one, the very first day that we're born, and also, you know, our childhood, our teenage years, our adulthoods at work, all this crazy things that are happening in our world right now, how we're feeling.
	So it accumulates in our body's energy fields.
	These things can be very visible to me.
	And so when I'm doing a clearing, I always work with my eyes closed because I think that we all have psychic ability.
	I believe that everybody continues on after we pass on, and yet we don't have a physical body.
	And so people communicate telepathically.
	It's a natural form of communication.
	But also, emotional energies stay with us as well.
	And so that our bodies, we tend to hold in emotional energies thinking that everything that we hold in is really us, when some of these emotional energies could be actually negative emotional energies that we're holding in and don't know it.
	And it can be released.
	And so a very quick example would be that if we're afraid of something underneath the bed when we're a child or something that's in our closet, which turns out to be nothing, that is just a normal childhood fear, it still can provoke an emotional reaction inside of us.
	We might cry or scream, you know, and all of that.
	And that can actually stay in our system even as we become adults.
	You know, the fear goes away.
	We know there's nothing underneath our bed.
	We know there's nothing in the closet.
	And yet we hold in these charges of energy, which are not visible to the naked eye, but we can still feel them.
	But that's like psychiatry, though, isn't it?
	How is that spirits?
	I don't think it is spirits.
	I think it's just emotional energy.
	Emotional energy is something that's not visible to the naked eye, but it still affects us.
	It still is inside of our system.
	Don't you?
	So, emotional energy is a kind of charge that is put out there.
	And sometimes you can pick that up like a train will pick up electricity from the third rail on a train track.
	I understand that.
	It's my job to pick it up.
	And so, the idea is that this is what most people are really experiencing is not attacked by spirits, but actually emotional energy.
	When people are thinking about you, they're actually transferring emotional energy.
	They don't know it.
	It's not deliberate.
	We're making connections with other people on an emotional level.
	And to me, it kind of looks like almost like these laser beams that travel from one person to another.
	Some of these laser beams of energy are positive and some are negative.
	And some contain both.
	They're kind of like tubes between people.
	Some of them can also be sent by spirits who are attacking people.
	So it can happen.
	Spirits like to affect people in power.
	They like to affect people that might do their bidding and harm themselves or harm other people or just destroy themselves and destroy their families.
	Sadly, we're running out of time.
	There's an awful lot to talk about, and I know that we could probably fill another hour here talking about these things.
	Last question from me, Jeffrey, and this is a kind of introduction to you.
	You know that some of my listeners are not going to buy this at all, but that is always a matter for the listener to judge whether they want to hear more or they don't.
	My last question, out of interest to you, is if you get rid of some of this negative energy, wherever it comes from, where does it go?
	It goes naturally towards the Earth.
	I believe the Earth is kind of like a magnet, sort of like gravity.
	And so I push it towards the Earth and the Earth does the rest of the work.
	What I would say to these people out there who are going to say, this guy is just full of it.
	I don't believe any of it.
	I would say just, you know, kind of look to your personal experience and also understand that I believe that all of this is science.
	None of this is religion.
	I really don't think any of it is really metaphysical.
	Some people may disagree with that.
	I believe that all of this can be explained.
	Do I believe there are spirits out there?
	Do I believe that there is life after death?
	Do I believe that maybe there are higher spirits, even a God?
	Yes.
	I don't know of everything, but the idea is that I completely understand why people would not be able to see these things or want to see these things or have not had an experience.
	But just understand that I believe that all of this is science and I have no argument with physical science at all.
	And actually have never had an argument with a scientist once in my life because I believe in what they're doing.
	Scientists are approaching all of these issues from a physical perspective.
	I'm approaching all of this from a non-physical perspective.
	Right.
	And the destination point may well be the same.
	And science is changing all the time.
	It's a hell of a story, Jeffrey.
	And I know that you have done a lot of, you know, coast-to-coast radio in the United States and a lot of television explaining this stuff.
	I'm fascinated by it.
	You know, I'm one of those people who does believe that there is more to life than what we can just see.
	Not everybody feels that way, but I think people listening to this probably have an inkling of that thought.
	And I'm very grateful to you.
	Give my love to Milwaukee.
	Maybe one of these days I will see that place.
	But thank you, Jeffrey Sealman.
	And if people want to check you out, just give me the address of your StarClear website.
	Sure.
	It's starclear.com.
	There you can find all the contact information you'd ever want about me.
	It's S-T-A-R-C-L-E-A-R, StarClear, starclear.com.
	My name is Jeffrey Sealman, and I do not charge for consultations, meaning you can always contact me through Skype, Zoom, any of the social systems, telephone, any way you want to.
	Everything is private.
	This is something we can talk about.
	But I have to say, if I was on the radio, this is not going to be on the radio, but if I was on the radio for common sense and regulatory reasons, I would have to say if you feel that you're having an emotional issue, if there is a problem in your life, if you're not feeling good about yourself or anything else, then the first place that you have to go is your general practitioner, your doctor, your MD, as you call it in the United States.
	So that's just a little caveat that I have to put in there to make me feel right about this.
	Jeffrey Sealman, thank you so much for doing this.
	Howard, thanks for having me on the show.
	Jeffrey Sealman in Milwaukee, United States.
	We're completely out of time.
	Your thoughts, welcome on this.
	Please go to my website, theunexplained.tv.
	You can send me an email from there if you'd like to.
	More great guests in the pipeline, as I always say here on The Unexplained.
	So until next we meet, my name is Howard Hughes.
	This has been The Unexplained Online.
	And please, whatever you do, stay safe, stay calm, and above all, please stay in touch.
	Thank you very much.
	Take care.

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