All Episodes
Previous Next
May 16, 2021 - The Unexplained - Howard Hughes
01:10:56
Edition 544 - Deb Kaubl
| Copy link to current segment

Time Text
Across the UK, across continental North America and around the world on the internet by webcast and by podcast, my name is Howard Hughes and this is the Unexplained.
Well definite proof that we are into springtime here in London.
Apart from the fact that there is some hazy sunshine outside the window right now, since this morning I have had two wasps in my apartment and one rather large bug.
I'm not a big fan of wasps, I have to say, and I've just literally shown the second one the door before we started recording.
I'm just going to listen.
No, I can't hear any buzzing.
I think he's gone.
So I think the seasons have definitely changed and the insect world is trying to tell me it's time to wake up.
Maybe so.
It's certainly warm enough to be doing this show without any heating and sitting here in a t-shirt.
In my book, that's Gotta Be a Plus.
Guest on this edition, suggested by Becky.
Thank you for this, Becky.
I didn't forget, Deb Corbel is here.
Alien, abductee, contactee, and very much more.
Now, Deb, her claim to fame is that she was the inspiration behind Bud Hopkins' famous book, Intruders, The Incredible Visitations at Copley Woods.
Very famous book.
Seminal work, you might say, in this field.
So I think what we're going to hear from Deb Corbyl, who wasn't featured under her real name in the book, I have to say, we'll find out why that was.
We'll find out a great deal more about this.
And like I say, Becky, thank you for suggesting, Deb Corbyl.
A couple of shout-outs before we get to the guest in the United States.
Tony, D. Oliver Clay, thank you very much indeed.
Anthony in Nottingham, nice to hear from you.
Thank you for your suggestions.
Now, I don't know whether this is a pseudonym.
I think it is.
Pretty sure it is.
And I don't tend to mention people who use aliases, but I'm going to bend the rule this time.
Boba Fettucini.
You know who you are.
In fact, I think your real name might be Levi.
But anyway, Boba Fettuccini, he wanted a shout out.
There it is.
Wayne has got in touch to say that he wants to hear Luis Elizondo, the man who was behind the ATIP program in the US.
I think I've said this before on the show, both on the radio and online, that we've tried and tried and tried and tried.
I've tried through people who know Luis Elizondo.
I have tried directly and I'm not getting anywhere, which is unusual because I have heard him appear on some smaller shows, but he hasn't at the moment been willing or maybe he hasn't got to know about the requests.
I don't know, but we've been trying and trying and trying.
And we will continue to try because I would love to speak with Luis Elizondo in good faith.
So if you know Luis Elizondo, or if indeed you're in contact with him, please let him know that I would be more than keen to speak with him.
Chris got in touch.
He enjoyed the update with Piero Calvi Parasetti.
A lot of people did too.
I think he's a very good guest myself.
Dr. Jim Tucker, fascinating guest recently about children's past life experiences.
Mike has been in touch.
Mike, I'm not going to use your second name in case you don't want me to, but you talk to me about your son, who is now 31.
And you tell me that when he was three or four, he began telling us that he'd been an old man with white hair and a beard.
He described himself as a tool man.
When he was seven or eight, at his request, I helped to build him a small forge using an old charcoal grill lined with concrete, where at that age, he made tools and other forged implements.
By the age of 10, all of those memories were gone.
A very common experience.
And Mike, if you or your son want to share that experience or share those memories and recollections with me, then I would be very pleased to speak with you.
Please get in touch through the website like you did.
But good to hear from you.
Thank you very much to Adam, my webmaster, for his continuing hard work, getting the shows out to you and maintaining and honing the website.
Thank you to Haley for booking the guests, including this one, Deb Corbel in the United States, in a place called Kokomo.
I don't think we have to say anymore.
If you want to get in touch with me, please go to my website, theunexplained.tv.
Follow the link and you can send me an email from there.
If you'd like to leave a donation for the show while you're passing through the website, that will be gratefully received.
And of course, if you have made a donation recently, thank you very, very much if you've done that.
It means a very great deal to me.
And thank you for all of your lovely, lovely comments, including Sean's, which I mentioned on the radio.
Basically, Sean is a guy who started listening to my radio show in about 2004.
And it went off the radio, became a podcast.
He followed it then.
And now he was a student when he started listening.
Now he's a married man with a family, living in Scotland, and he is still listening.
And that was so heartwarming in these miserable times for me personally to hear Sean.
So thank you very much indeed.
Okay, let's get to the United States now.
Deb Corbel is there.
And Deb, thank you very much for coming on.
Thank you for having me.
I appreciate it.
So Deb, from what I read, you are in a place called Kokomo.
Now, I didn't think Kokomo was a real place.
I know it's a song by the Beach Boys, but that's all I knew.
It's not the Kokomo of the Beach Boys song, trust me.
It's in Indiana, which is like dead smack in the middle of the United States, a little bit on the north side.
And I mean, we just had another frost warning last night.
I'm so sick of this.
I'm ready for summer.
And is your summer delayed there?
It seems like it's a little bit dragging its feet this year than normal.
I don't know.
I think you're dead right about that.
It's been the same here.
We've had, in some parts of the UK, in May, we've had snow.
It's just turned.
In fact, I know that it's just turned because I've had not one, but two wasps in my apartment, you know, hornets today.
So I think they're starting to stir, which is always a sign.
Now, my listeners, some of them love me talking about the weather, and some of them say you Brits are obsessed with the weather.
Get on with the conversation.
So I guess we better do that.
Talk to me, Deb, about you.
I know very little about you apart from the obvious, we'll talk a lot about this, but the association with Bud Hopkins.
So talk to me about you, the person.
Well, you know, I'm Kathy Davis from Bud Hopkins' book, Intruders, The Incredible Visitation To Copley Woods.
That story kind of evolves around an experience I had on June 30th, 1983, at my parents' house in Indianapolis, Indiana.
I was a single mom at that time, and I had just moved back home with my parents, trying to get my feet back on the ground and get my future figured out, you know.
And I had this extraordinary experience one night in my mom and dad's backyard that left a mark in the yard and left me sick pretty much physically for quite a while and also emotionally.
I felt like I was having a nervous breakdown.
In fact, you did say that you were not in any way the same person after that experience.
No, not at all.
I mean, after that experience that night, it felt like the old me kind of passed away and a new Debbie was kind of born out of that.
It was not an easy birth, mind you.
It was like breach.
And it took years, even though that experience was almost like pulling the finger out of a dam because a lot of memories that had been pushed aside of previous experiences all the time I was growing up kind of came back too.
I was born into a family.
Sorry, you were saying you were born into a family.
Well, I was just born into a family that was by comparison to most people a little odd anyway.
We had a lot of paranormal experience happen around us all the time, but I assumed growing up with it that that was normal.
It wasn't until later I realized maybe not so much.
Well, your childhood, before we get to the main event in 83, I think we need to dwell a little bit in your childhood because you're right.
It was not usual.
I'm not going to use the word normal.
That's not fair.
But it wasn't usual in that you had neighbors, I understand, who used to scan the skies for UFOs at night.
This was like the 1960s, I think.
And as you say, your parents and the house that you were in, you were all no strangers to strange events.
Right.
You know, you're right.
When I was my mom and dad first lived in this one house when they were married.
And for, you know, years they tried to have another child after they had my sister and never did.
So then like 10 years later, they moved out there to the house on Michigan Street.
And this was a neighborhood where the neighbors would climb up on their roofs at night to look at what they called UFOs because they didn't know what they were.
And my parents were right up there with them.
And, you know, then I was conceived and born immediately after they moved in there.
And then my little brother, 14 months after me, and then like 14 or 15 months after him, my little sister came.
So it was the baby house.
But they had always had things like what people would call ghosts, you know, things that would become missing and then reappear in different places, hearing footsteps going up and down the halls at night, doors opening or being opened in the night and stuff.
Just stuff that people, most people would think was ghostly, you know, or paralyzed allies activity.
It just happened all the time in our house.
And do you think that all of that stuff was around you as a group of people, or was it something that was already there in that house?
What did your parents think?
I don't know that my parents really had much of thought about it early on.
But once they moved out to the house that Bud wrote about in what he called Copley Woods, and it continued on and got even worse, got more active, we realized, and then as the kids grew up, as the four of us grew up and moved into our own homes and it continued on in all of our homes, we realized that it wasn't the houses that we were living in, it was us.
That kind of sounds like a typical poltergeist case.
You know, they say sometimes your classic poltergeist case, like the very famous one in England, the Enfield Poltergeist, it was a family with kids.
I think at least one was an adolescent, and the activity seemed to be focusing upon the kids in particular.
Yeah, and I think in our case, it was more the kids and then the adults, because as we all moved out, all of us had increasing activity in our own homes and apartments.
And it kind of leveled out in mom and dad's house.
It got quieter.
At least they never, I never heard much about it after, you know, the last of us moved out.
Of course, there were a few of us that came back.
And whenever we'd moved back home for whatever reasons, like when I got divorced and I had two little kids and didn't have anywhere else to go, and, you know, that was June 83 happened and then a whole year worth of absolute insanity after that.
So right.
And so as kids, you and your sister, Kathy, the kids in the family, it seems to me, and you said this yourself at the beginning of this conversation, that you regarded that as the norm.
It wasn't anything.
It may have been unusual to your parents.
But for you, this was just the way things were, it sounds.
Right.
Yeah.
And it really wasn't all that, you know, it wasn't all that scary to any of us.
I mean, it wasn't scary enough to make us all want to pack up and run off and move.
An example of it I give in my book is when mom and Kathy and I were sitting around the kitchen table having a cigarette and a cup of coffee.
And mom had one of those great big amber heavy glass ashtrays on the kitchen table.
And I reached over to flick my ash into the ashtray.
And the moment that I did that, that ashtray broke in half with a really loud, like a snap or pop.
And one end of the one side of the ashtray slid to one side of the table and one side slid to the other.
And all the ashes sat in the middle.
And three different, complete different reactions.
My mom was like, well, damn, that was an expensive ashtray.
And my, And my sister, Kathy, was like, I'm out of here.
Bye.
And grabs her purse and goes home.
And I'm like, damn, that's cool.
Did I do that?
You know, so three different reactions.
But, you know, the younger the person, the more the reaction was that, you know, none of us were afraid of it.
Let's put it that way.
Even Kathy, when she took off.
You just said, did I do that?
And that was the question that I was going to ask you.
Do you think that most of it was around you?
It seems like there was more activity around me, that I was usually one of the people involved.
And it was like me.
And then it would be like other people.
Like June 30, 83 was me and my mom and neighbors witnessed some things.
And yeah, so it seemed like I was involved in more of it or was centered around me more.
And like when my little sister moved out on her own, my little sister and my little brother did not report anything unusual.
But it was myself and my older sister, whom had an extraordinary UFO sighting in 1965.
So the two older girls, you know, and so yeah, sort of around me, I guess I should take the blame for some.
Who knows whether these things are a gift in some way?
I'm not sure.
If it's scaring you, it's not a gift.
But if it's intriguing you and it sounds like when that ashtray did what it did, you said how cool.
It's intriguing you.
Well, the reason I think I thought, did I do that was because it was like the actual moment that I flipped my, you know, I made that flipping motion with my cigarette over the ashtray, poof, and it snapped.
And it was, you know, coincidentally or not, I mean, it seemed like I did that.
That's why I just blurted that out, but I didn't, you know.
Were you an unusual kind of girl and were you an unusual kind of family?
I think I'm trying to ask that in a nice British polite way.
Was there anything unusual about you as a group of people and maybe about you that you can remember?
Well, I know there's, I've had a lot of strange physical issues.
My I mean, I wasn't supposed to be born, actually, you know, and my mom moved to this weird place and then got pregnant with me.
But of course, she had my other two, my sister and brother also after me.
But I've had a lot of strange physical things happening to me since I was born.
I had something called precocious puberty as a child, and I was the same height as I am now, which is five foot three in first grade.
Wow.
I grew fast.
I started my female cycle, you know, in the first grade.
Had no idea what was happening to me.
I had all kinds of strange physical things happen to me, which landed me in the hospital for like five weeks when I was a kid, running all kinds of tests on me, trying to figure out why I was growing and what was going on with me.
I did have hyperadrenalism, but they couldn't find any reason for it.
There was no organic cause, like a tumor or something that they would expect to find.
My hormones were totally screwed up.
So I had all kinds of weird stuff physically happen to me.
And then when I reached the age when most girls would start to grow, I stopped.
So you're doing things in reverse?
I'm doing things in reverse, like, I don't know, call me Betty Button or something, you know, Benjamin Button.
And in the midst of all of that then, Deb, did you, were you having, were you experiencing like kind of shadow people, things you'd see out of the corner of your eye?
Were you having weird dreams?
Was there anything else going on?
Yeah, I had that kind of stuff all the time.
I have two different kinds of dreams.
I have the kind of normal dream or non-dream, whatever you want to call it, that most people have when you wake up.
If you even remember you had a dream, you know, you'll think, oh, I think I had this weird dream.
But an hour later, you don't even remember that you had a dream.
That's the way most people are.
And some people don't wake up and don't even think they've had a dream.
And then I have the other kind that I have sporadically had over the years from a child on up.
And I call those my vivid or lucid dreams.
And those are the kinds I have when I wake up.
I remember them.
And not only do I remember them, I feel as if I lived them.
And the more awake I am, the more of it I remember.
And it's like 3D color.
And I'm in it and not just observing it, you know.
And I had dreams like that as a child.
And I had this one reoccurring dream.
All my life started when I was a kid.
It comes in threes.
Like I'd have one section of the dream one day, and I knew the next day I would have the second part, and the next day I would have the third part.
Geez, so your dreams were kind of like days of our lives.
Sort of, yeah.
And, you know, I've had this dream.
I've had this succession of dreams maybe five times in my life.
And I'm 62 now.
And I remember starting it when I was a kid.
And it was always a, it's a kind of a weird apocalyptic dream.
At first it was scared me.
And as I got older, it didn't scare me anymore.
But I'd be, the first part of the dream is I'm climbing through the ground, on the ground on my hands and knees, crawling across the mud.
And I see a hill in front of me I got to get to.
The sky is blue and gray and purple.
And there's green and red streaks in the skies and the wind is blowing and the rain is stinging my face.
And then the second part of the dream, I'm further towards this hill that I see I have to get to.
And then at the last dream, I'm at the foot of this big hill, this high, high hill.
And there's a person standing at the top of the hill and they are completely unaffected by what's going on around them.
And tall, beautiful, long-haired, glowing, white, robe, white-haired man who reaches down to me and says, let's go.
It's time to go home.
And I take his hand and I wake up.
And I had that kind of dream.
I've had it all my life.
It's weird.
Do you have any idea where home might have been?
I don't know.
But I did have dreams of places.
I've had dreams of places through my life.
It's odd that, you know, even as a kid growing up, I felt like I didn't quite belong here.
I almost felt like I was homesick for a place or people that I'd never met, which made no sense.
And I dreamed of a place where there was, I was in a big giant hangar like, but it was like huge, like city blocks huge with all kinds of vehicles and all kinds of people in there that all looked different.
And I was with an older man that had long white hair and long gowns.
And he was telling me, you know, that I would do good and pat me on the back.
And I was hugging him and crying and saying I didn't want to go.
And he says, you're not going to remember this.
And I said, yes, I will.
Hard-headed.
And dreams like that with buildings that look like crystals and crazy.
It sounds New Agey stuff now.
People write about it in New Age books and stuff, which I try to avoid all that stuff.
But I was dreaming this when I was, I don't know, so like 50 years ago, because I was a kid, you know, so a long time before these books.
Well, I mean, I don't know.
Were you a sci-fi fan?
Could you have been extrapolating those things from sci-fi, maybe?
Well, it's possible.
I mean, I watched Star Trek with my dad as a kid growing up because my dad liked to watch Star Trek and Planet of the Eight movies and all that stuff.
You know, so I watched it with him.
I think the biggest fun was watching it with my dad.
But, you know, I watched all that stuff.
And, you know, as a teenager, yeah, I liked Star Wars.
And I stood in line for three hours to get a ticket back in the 70s.
And I remember in 77, my dad took the whole family to see Close Encounters of the Third Kind on Christmas, around Christmas time.
And I remember I kept poking my dad in the arm saying, yeah, yeah, look, you know, because.
You mean it seemed familiar?
Yes.
I said, yeah, daddy, look, yes.
And he'd like, shut up.
I don't know why I'm laughing, but that's fascinating.
Were you in one of those when I saw it, I think I saw that one in London, and it was a big movie theater.
And God, those notes, da-da-da-da-da-da.
You know, when they start playing those things, they go right through you, don't they?
They did.
I got goosebumps.
It was so cool.
You know, I just thought it was cool.
Had you come then to the stage, because this is pre-83 when the transformative event happened.
Had you come to the stage of believing that maybe there was something going on with you that was beyond the realms of normality, into the realms of paranormality, I guess you'd say?
You know, I didn't really think that much of it.
I thought everybody was like that and everybody's life was like mine for the longest time.
And I don't think it was until I had a dream shortly after I got married.
This was back in 78.
And I had this weird dream that I was in bed with my husband.
And I remember these two, I call them little guys, came into my room.
They like literally walked into my room from a window.
They didn't come in the room from the doorway.
But I remember waking up, seeing them trying to sit up in my bed and feeling panicky and thinking, don't touch me, don't touch me.
And they moved very slowly towards me.
There was two of them.
And they were basically dressed all in black, but they had great big black eyes and big heads.
And they had a box in their hand, small like shoebox size thing with the red light in it.
And they kind of handed it over to me or set it down on my lap.
And I'm still freaking out, but I'm calmer.
And I'm like, I say to them, what is this?
Can I have it?
You know, something to that effect.
And somehow, which I don't remember seeing them speak, but somehow I was to understand that I could not have it.
But when I saw, it was being shown to me so that when I saw it again, I'd remember it.
And I would remember how to use it.
And I'm like, you know, the next thing I remember, I'm waking up in bed and I'm trying to wake my husband up.
And he, you know, it's morning time now and he wakes up and I frantically tell him about this dream I had and these two weird looking guys that were in our bedroom.
And the only thing that he could say to me was, Lamb, Wow, did you eat for dinner last night?
They would give you some nightmares like that.
And I'm like, dude, it wasn't a nightmare.
It was real, I swear to God.
And he's like, okay, whatever.
Geez, there must have been some jalapenos.
So I, you know, I told my mom and my mom told Bud, she remembers me telling her about this crazy dream.
And it was, I think, back then when I thought, what the hell was that?
Why did I have some kind of dream?
And who are those?
What were those things?
So you were starting to think about it and you were starting to have the idea that maybe this is not a dream.
Maybe I was half asleep and half awake and this really happened.
Yeah, because I just felt like that was so real.
And why were they in my room?
And, you know, and it I remember that I was terrified.
I remember that feeling of terror and I didn't remember having any, ever having felt that terrified and that fearful in my life that all I could think of was, please don't touch me or I'm going to lose it.
You know, please just don't touch me.
Just weird.
So a kind of fear.
I don't recall having that kind of fear consciously in my other in life other than that time.
And I'm like, what the, you know, it was incredible.
And, of course, I, uh, I had that same terror feeling in 83.
But yeah, it was probably back then after I first was a young married girl that I began to realize that, you know, there's something weird going on here.
Were you able to?
I still wasn't sure what it was, though.
Sorry for jumping in.
Were you able to carry On anything like a normal life with all of these things going on?
Well, yeah, because I mean, to me, it was normal.
I mean, I did have plenty of issues with anxiety.
I had panic problems and anxiety problems, but it really, there wasn't any conscious reason, you know, for it.
I didn't realize.
And I'd gone to counseling a few times trying to get my get myself together, you know, trying to learn how to control my anxiety, but not really fully consciously aware of what was pushing it, you know.
Yeah, that's what I was going to ask.
You know, it's, it's almost like you're aware of being anxious, but you're also, there's this dawning awareness that there is something causing it.
It's not innate within you.
There is actually a cause.
Right.
Yeah.
And after 83, like I said, I think I had a, it was a blessing that I lived with my parents when this happened because I was literally probably, I couldn't function for the first couple months afterwards.
I was just, I believe I had a nervous breakdown.
Looking back at it now in the moment, I wasn't really aware of that.
But looking back now, I can think I can say that pretty confidently.
Tell me how old you were again.
I was in 83.
I'm 62 now.
I think I was in my like 22 or 23 years.
So I was a pretty young girl.
Okay, so you're not a teenager.
I'm not a teenager, no, but I'm not very, I'm not much farther past teenager.
Yeah, no, so you're young, but you're not a teenager.
You're back with your parents.
Right.
Talk me through what happened.
Well, I was living with them at the time.
There was a gal who lived behind us.
She made costumes.
And in order to make a little extra money to help mom and dad out with us being there, I would go back to, her name was Deanna.
I'd go her house.
She lived behind my parents' house and on the next street.
I'd go over and cut patterns out for her.
So I was going to go cut patterns one night with her.
And as I was preparing to leave, I noticed a strange light in the pump house at my mom's swimming pool.
So my parents had a nice home and we called it a cement pond in the backyard, a built-in underground pool.
And I noticed this odd light, which I pointed out to mom.
And she's like, don't worry about it.
Your dad will be home later.
So as I got in my car to leave, I decided I think I'll go along the side drive because there was a side drive and a turnaround behind the house just to make sure there wasn't anybody out there.
You know, I'm thinking burglars, not UFOs.
That'd be like the farthest thing from my mind.
Yeah, no, you'd be thinking is somebody sneaking the place out.
Yeah, somebody's out there snooping around going to steal some stuff.
And I'm like, I'm going to have to get ugly on somebody.
But nobody was there.
Not only was the light gone, but in the five minutes it took me to get back there, the light was gone.
But I did notice the pedestrian door of the garage was open.
Instead of stopping, I just went on ahead, the one and a half minute drive to the next street behind us over to her house.
And I called mom, told her, she said, don't worry about it.
Your dad will be home pretty soon.
That's mom's typical answer for everything.
And so I hung up.
And as soon as I did, she called right back.
And she goes, I need you to come home right now.
And she sounded scared, which is not like my mom at all.
So I went back and grabbed my dad's unloaded shotgun to go out and look around because I figured I knew it wasn't loaded, but whoever was out there wouldn't know.
And I could get at least close enough to beat him with it before they figured it out.
So I'm out and I'm not brave.
So that's just weird in and of itself that I actually did that because typically I'm not a brave.
I wasn't then.
I am now.
I don't take no.
You know, your mom's under threat.
You've got to do something.
And my little kids, my two children were in there.
My kids, little toddler kids, you know, so I'm mama bear right there.
So you've got to do something.
I went out there, didn't see anything, went into the garage, didn't see anything.
And as I was leaving the garage, I suddenly felt like I thought, oh my God, I got to get out of here.
This fear and panic swept over me.
I felt like my whole body was on fire and tingling and vibrating.
And as I hit the door to the pedestrian, to the pedestrian door of the garage, something hit me in the chest that was like a ball of lightning.
And it was, all I could think of was, oh my God, I'm dying.
This is what it feels like to die.
You know, I'm dying.
I'm dying.
In my mind, I imagined this is what it felt like to get hit by lightning or something.
But it's like time stopped.
And it seemed like I could feel every molecule of my body vibrate.
And it started in the, like the middle of my chest, like solar plexus area and spread slowly to my arms and legs.
And I totally could not, I couldn't see.
Everything was white and blown out.
And then it stopped.
It seemed like it went on forever and time stopped, but then the vibration and the brightness stopped.
And I was outside in the door.
And I don't know how I got out there.
I was outside the door on the patio and I saw movement in the yard.
And I saw what were six, I called them bullets shaped.
They were large top and narrowed down, but they were almost like children's size moving around in the yard.
And they lined up in front of me, far out in the yard.
They were far out in the yard from me.
And they sort of glided towards me, but not at me.
And that was when I turned, looked at my eyeballs and saw this shape.
We called it a craft for lack of any other thing to call it.
In retrospect, there is no way six, even children-sized people could get in that thing and fly anywhere.
It was small.
And it didn't really seem like it was totally all the way on the ground.
It was egg-shaped.
It had several soft lights around it.
And there seemed to be like four legs coming off of it from the midsection, but they weren't like sturdy legs to hold weight.
It seemed more like for stabilization.
Did it look like what we would call today a drone?
It was much bigger.
It was about 10, I would say about 10 feet tall and maybe 8 feet in diameter at its widest, maybe.
Well, that's no drone.
No, it was quite a bit bigger.
And there was another ball of light out in front of it that was about as tall, high up as I am tall, and it went down to the real slow and then up again and then moved towards this craft thing.
And I felt like it was looking at me for some reason.
At one point, I felt a pulling down on my shoulders from below me, and I felt a burning sensation in my right ear, like something stabbed me in the ear, like a hot poker.
And I wanted to scream, but couldn't.
I couldn't see clearly.
My eyes, the vision was splotchy, you know, like flashboard splotchy.
And I heard a voice from somewhere say it was unfortunate that I had felt pain.
In other words, whatever happened to me was unintentional.
And they knew.
They knew that you'd felt pain.
Yeah, because I was in my head screaming.
I don't know if my mouth was open and I was screaming because I couldn't move, but I know I was screaming in my head.
So they were communicating with you nonverbally?
Somehow, yeah.
Like I never saw anyone.
So I don't, I can't tell you if they were actually talking to me or not because I never saw another person.
I saw those things move into that craft, but they never, they never came to me.
They just came towards me and to the side.
But and more time passes.
I don't remember.
I didn't remember a lot.
And then all of a sudden I remember hearing my name.
I heard my name being called.
And when I did, it was like somebody snapped their fingers and I woke up.
And I was able to move.
I remember walking across the lower patio to the steps, looking up to the upper patio where the kitchen was.
And there was my mother.
And I later found out that the voice I heard calling my name was hers.
But she said to me, when she saw me, she's like, is everything okay?
And I said, yeah, it's cool.
But I'm not, I don't want to go sew anymore.
I need to get, I felt like I had to get wet.
I just felt gross and weird.
So I went back to my friends.
I said, hey, let's, let's, how about we go swimming instead of this?
And she's like, okay.
So me and her and her daughter went back to mom and dad's.
By this time, it was probably 11, 11 o'clock at 11.30 at night.
As we're walking out to the back, her daughter steps on something in the yard because then we don't see anything.
But her daughter steps on some area in the yard where she said it burned her foot and it made her foot sting and tingle.
And then her foot went numb.
By the time we were all out in the swimming pool, all three of us were nauseous and sick to our stomachs.
And I started to not be able to see.
Everything started getting all white.
So we abandoned swimming and they went home.
And I went and went to bed the next morning.
When I woke up, my eyes were swollen completely shut.
So my mom took me to the emergency room.
And the first thing that the eye doctor says to me, well, in the emergency room, there happened to be an eye doctor in there at the time.
And he came and looked at me.
But he had mom take me to his office across the street because he said he could examine me better there.
So they got me in there emergency style.
And he first thing he asked me was if I had looked into the ark of a welder's torch.
And I'm like, no, why would I do that?
But did you tell him I encountered six strange beings and a weird light in a strange craft?
No, I did not.
I did not tell him mainly because I did not remember it for a couple more days.
So I had no idea consciously at that point what had happened to me.
As soon as I heard my name being called, it was like somebody shut the door.
Boom.
You know?
And I woke up from some crazy ass dream.
And nobody else experienced that.
Nobody else in the family.
And I didn't tell him that.
And mom didn't say anything to him.
So apparently she didn't remember either.
So there you are.
You've got this weird disturbance with your eyes.
The kind of thing that you get if you look into, I mean, you know, if you look at people welding, that's why they wear special goggles that are tinted and block out that kind of light.
But he thought you'd looked at somebody doing a welding job and you hadn't.
No, and I hadn't.
You know, from that point on, my eyes were never right.
At the age of 30-something, I was diagnosed with cataracts.
By the time I was 40-something, I had new lenses and I had macular degeneration.
So, and I always, I blame that night.
My eyes were never right after that.
And I also became farsighted really bad after that.
But so whatever that did, I blame that on my eyes now, you know.
But after that night, you know, nobody went out in the backyard for the whole weekend.
And 4th of July weekend came up right after that.
And the family all came over to swim.
We all went outside through the backyard to go to the pool.
And one of my nephews comes running back in, grandma, grandma, come, what's wrong with your backyard?
And we went outside and there was the mark in the yard.
It was about an eight-foot diameter circle with a 49-foot swath coming off one side of path that was exactly two feet wide and ended in a perfect arc.
All the grass in it was laid over, dried up and gray, and the dirt was rock hard and gray.
And my mom, first thing out of her mouth is like, oh, that's where the UFO landed the other night.
And I remember looking at her and thinking, what the hell is wrong with you?
Why would you say something so silly?
And then as soon as I looked back at the mark in the yard, oh, I started to remember everything from the other night.
You know, the first thing I saw were the big black eyes.
And from that point on, I kind of came unglued slowly but surely.
I started having panic attacks.
I couldn't go in the bathroom that looked over the mark in the yard on the second floor of the house at night because I kept thinking something was going to pull me through the window and take me away.
I'd sit up all night between my kids' beds and sit up like I was waiting for something.
I was like that Roy dude in Close Encounters, you know, how he has this obsession with mashed potatoes and he's waiting for something, but he doesn't know what.
I just, I would sit up all night long and guard my children.
And then, as soon as the sun came up and people were awake, I'd sleep.
I mean, and this is when I, this is the point where I had, like I said, I think I had like a nervous breakdown.
I started having nightmares about those things with the big eyes and I started drawing pictures.
And that's when I started my journal, which is the basis for the book that I've recently finished.
And, you know, eventually I had read Missing Time by Bud Hopkins just not too long before this happened.
And I couldn't finish it.
I'd try to read it and I'd have a panic attack and it was ridiculous.
So my mom's like, we can't afford to keep going to emergency room.
You need to take that book back to the library.
So you'd read a Bud Hopkins book before this event.
Before this event, I had, not too long before it, I had picked up Missing Time in the library and really wasn't quite sure what it was about when I picked it up.
Figured it out pretty quick after I started reading it and thought it was interesting, but parts of it were giving me a tremendous amount of anxiety.
I would have panic attacks after reading the chapter, you know, so I finally gave up trying to read it and put it up because, you know, my sister Kathy, my older sister, she'd had a UFO experience in 65 that she told the family about and we believed her.
We had no reason to doubt her.
She wouldn't lie about something like that.
What happened to her?
Well, in 1965, she went to take my mom to play bingo in the evening, early evening.
Sun was still up.
Strove her to the bingo game, dropped her off.
And as she was driving back past another church there on 10th Street, she suddenly was compelled to pull her car into the driveway of this parking, of this church.
And she pulled around to the back parking lot.
And when she stopped her car, she said she looked up and there was a huge silver disc with lights on the bottom of it right over her car.
And then the next thing she remembered was sitting in her car.
It was dark.
It was multiple hours later.
And it was almost time to go pick mom up from the bingo game.
And then she had vague memories of her entire car being lifted up out of the parking lot with her in it into this thing.
Right.
So this is Betty and Barney Hill, isn't it?
All over again.
Yeah, except this is my sister Kathy back in 1965.
And, you know, she told the family about it, told mom about it.
She was totally freaked out about it.
And then she pretty much, you know.
So when what happened?
Who are you going to tell about it?
Who are you going to tell?
You know, 18 years later, when what happened happened to you, was it easier to make sense of it because your sister Kathy had had an experience?
Well, I still didn't really make that much sense of it.
And I didn't start putting two and two together at first because I was kind of shocked, just like shell shock at first, you know.
When I started to put two and two together, I went back to the library and got that book because I knew there was an address in the back of it where I could write the guy who wrote it.
So I wrote this big, long, long, 14-page letter to Bud and took a bunch of pictures of the backyard and told him all the memories I had.
But first, I led in with my sister's story about her 65 experience because it sounded to me like, you know, after reading what was going on, you know, what I'd read of parts of what I'd read from Missing Time, that sounded like Kathy had Missing Time too.
I didn't tell my sister at the time I was going to like include her in this letter.
I kind of threw her under the bus.
Well, she was a little, I knew she'd be mad at me, but I'm like, whatever, you'll get over it.
But, you know, and I gave the letter to mom to mail to Bud and mom later said she almost didn't mail it.
And a couple times she thought about throwing it away because she's like, I don't know if we want to open this can of worms.
But something compelled her to one day find herself standing by a mailbox and thinking, oh, that letter's in my purse.
I better mail it.
So she did.
And Bud called.
And from that point on, from that phone call on, it was like three-year investigation.
I went to New York a couple, three times.
Bud came here several times.
He interviewed my sister.
He interviewed my neighbors, my employer.
You know, I went to New York and I had a voice stress test.
I had the voice stress test in Indiana.
He set it up as some police officer.
But in New York, he took me to the hospital.
Some people had donated money and time.
And I had an EG where they put the wires on your brain and a CAT scan of my brain to make sure I didn't have epilepsy or seizures or brain tumor or something like that.
And I had six hours of verbal and written psychological testing.
And I remember during the testing, I told one of the psychologists, you know, it's okay if you tell me I'm crazy because I know they make pills for that and I'm good with that.
So in fact, what you wanted was an answer to it.
I was just desperately trying to find an answer to what are all these memories that I have and where do they fit in my life and in this world and how can I function in normal society and what's wrong with me?
What's wrong with me?
And obviously Bud Hopkins, premier researcher in this field, what did he tell you about what you thought might be wrong with you?
Well, Bud, you know, he was an artist.
He wasn't a psychiatrist or a doctor or anything like that.
He was a very compassionate and intelligent person.
And he was very compassionate with me and desperately wanted to help me and wanted me to, you know, find a way to live with everything.
And so he took me to see a psychologist, I think it's a psychiatrist in New York, Dr. Aphrodite Klamar, who after Dr. Klamar introduced me to hypnotherapy and she regressed me a couple times.
Nothing really came up.
But He, you know, I mean, he had a after missing time, apparently he was swamped with letters.
He'd gotten boxes and boxes full of letters from people all around the world with the same kind of dreams and experiences and memories that I had.
So he was pretty much convinced that something was happening.
And he was reaching out to people, to, you know, scientists and stuff to try to help him help us.
So, and then when he decided to write Intruders, you know, it took us some convincing from him to get us to agree to that to begin with.
And then when the family all agreed, okay, well, you can write the book, you know, somebody was going to have to be the spokesperson for the family, you know what I mean?
So, and nobody else, I took one for the team in order, you know, to be to, you know, I went with Bud when he went to gave talks about it and I allowed him to continue his research and talk to him.
And he interviewed a bunch of other family members.
You were under a pseudonym, weren't you?
Kathy Davis?
I was under the pseudonym Kathy Davis at the time.
We decided that was the best way because we had already had a couple of odd visitors at my mom and dad's house in the market in the yard.
And this was before the book was even written.
And what are you talking about, fans or are you talking about MIBs?
We got a call from our neighbor one day.
We had been out, mother, mom, and I and the kids had been out and had recently just gotten home and got a phone call from the gal that lives next door saying that there had been a man out in the backyard in that weird spot.
And she said he had a large briefcase.
He was wearing a suit and he was in your backyard messing around with that spot in your yard.
My mom was like not happy about that.
How did they know?
Well, how would he have known about it?
We have no idea.
Absolutely have no idea who that was.
And there were a couple of times when we were in the house and we looked out, looked up and there was a strange car in that.
Remember that turnaround driveway I told you about that went alongside the house?
There was a car in the driveway and there was two men in the vehicle.
They were both wearing suits and they were taking pictures of the back of my mom and dad's house.
And when my dad went out to approach them, they drove off.
So, you know, because of weird stuff like that, we felt a pseudonym, mainly, I want to protect my children, you know, and my family.
We didn't want that.
So that's why I took a pseudonym.
And it's funny because Bud said, pick a name from somebody that you admire, that you'd like to be united.
I picked Kathy.
I picked your sister.
I picked my sister because I worship the ground she walked on.
You know, she was my big sister.
We all admire our sister.
So this patch of ground, though, wherever what had transpired transpired, this from what you say is a place where nothing would grow, it was anomalous for years.
Right.
Snow melted off of it for about the first two winters.
When we'd start getting a light snow, you know, an inch or two, within, I don't know, an hour, half an hour to an hour after the snow would start to fall, you could look out and you could see that the snow had literally rolled right off that mark in the yard.
And you could see the mark in the snow, clear as bell.
It did, in the beginning, even the dogs would not walk through, when they walked through the yard, they'd walk around it.
They wouldn't even walk on it.
And as it slowly, I called it a healing because it seemed like it healed like a sower rather than, you know, because it would, it kind of grew in from the outer edges.
And the grass that grew into the area as it healed slowly over a period of several years was thicker and had a more of a purplish green hue to it.
It was a deeper green.
It sounds like diminishing radiation.
Did anybody check it for radiation?
My father had it, and my uncle Jim had an old Geiger counter from World War II.
And I don't know where in the hell they got it from because those two were strange.
Duck and cover days, I think.
Maybe.
But anyway, they had this old Geiger counter and it worked.
They could zero it back in the garage, back in the workshop.
But when they would bring it back towards the house, they couldn't get it to work.
They could not get it to zero.
So that didn't work.
And, you know, by the time Bud was able to get out there himself, it was like October, I think.
And this was, this happened in, you know, at the end of June.
So I did dig up some samples.
And the funny thing was, and I still have those soil samples.
I took like 10 different soil samples of the mark.
But you could drop a chunk of this soil in a glass of water and leave it overnight.
And the next day when you get up, you have a chunk of rock in a glass of water, you know.
But if you did that with the chunk of the soil outside the mark in the yard, you had mud.
How weird.
Also, there was, it's very weird.
There was a swath of trees along the side where it ran directly next to this.
And those trees, the leaves on those trees that year turned yellow and withered and fell off long before the rest of the trees around it did.
So that looked a little odd.
And we had tomato plants along the back pool, the side of the pool where the gate was, which was over near where the end of the thing arced, the little, you know, 20, the 40 foot, 49 foot swath with that little arc on the end.
And then our tomato plants was over near there.
That year, the tomato plants had vines as big around as my arms, and the tomatoes were huge like cantaloupe, but they were so acidic that you couldn't eat them.
They would take the skin off your lips.
And the dog that had been out there in the yard that night, my dog Penny, by the fall, by September, she had to be put down.
All the hair on her body fell off.
At first, it looked like mange, but then it started to fall off in other places.
And you could clearly see that she'd gone blind.
Her eyes were white, and her teeth had fallen out.
Her mouth was, her gums bled, and she couldn't eat anymore.
So we had to put her down.
Well, these are radiation effects, aren't they?
I think people at Chernobyl experience these things.
In retrospect, yeah, I feel like that.
And even myself, I mean, my hair got thin.
My fingernails got the weird horizontal waves in them and my toenails.
And my fingernails are still so thin that they can peel off like paper.
And of course, my eyes were shot.
I started having irregular heartbeats and I had swollen glands and I would break out in rashes for no reason at all.
And it seemed like every stomach bug or cold or whatever that came through town found me first.
I had no immune system and I was sick as a dog for about a year.
And even now, as an, you know, this has been 30-some years ago.
And I think back about that night, and I know what kind of damages happened to my eyes.
That's pretty obvious.
And I'm still concerned about what could lay ahead for me in the future, you know, still some lingering side effect from what happened that night.
You know, I still kind of have anxiety about that, but, you know, I can't let it stop me from living.
No, I guess you have to.
And I totally understand why you would be anxious about that.
So Bud Hopkins was involved in this.
He published the book, Intruders.
It was kind of your story.
Did telling the story make it better or make it feel a bit easier?
At first, I had a lot of anxiety about it because, you know, I was afraid people would think I was crazy and not take me seriously.
And I understood that.
I fully understood that.
I was like, you know what?
If I didn't see this and live through this, I would feel the same way.
Well, we've got to remember that in the 90s, this book came out, I think was it 1992.
Yeah.
People were, you know, I was starting my media career around that time.
And people regarded such things very often.
I didn't, but there were a lot of people in the media who regarded all of this stuff as wacko.
Oh, yeah.
Oh, it's times have changed so much.
Oh, my God.
You mean, now you can go to Walmart and buy alien t-shirts and lunchboxes.
Now it's almost like people want to be abducted by aliens.
I see stuff on the internet about people trying to have these Skywatch parties where they call them in.
And I'm like, oh, you better be careful what you wish for.
You might get it.
But then on the flip side, what I went through in the 90s, you know, in the 80s and 90s and coming forward with this stuff and talking about it was so difficult and almost embarrassing because, I mean, I didn't, it wasn't like I was looking for this.
I didn't go out looking for this to happen to me.
I was just trying to have life.
I'm just trying to have a normal life.
Not sure who the hell wants to be famous for this is what my attitude always was.
Are you kidding me?
You know, thank you.
But I felt in the end, we agreed to the book and I went on to do my own because I felt a desire to help other people.
I found, I met so many, like thousands of people over the years that are just like me.
And also, even though my experiences were very frightening early, I was young and didn't understand what was going on with me and what was happening.
Now, I'm still having experiences, but I wouldn't, they're not on a physical level.
And I've kind of overcome the fear part of it.
I still can be startled.
Trust me, my son can startle me when he walks through the living room, you know, comes in the front door at night without telling me he's coming over.
So there's residual fear there.
Yeah, but.
But the story you tell is that this did not continue.
A lot of people who have an experience, it's one of just a string of experiences.
With you, it more or less came to a stop, right?
It came to a physical stop.
I have not had any actual physical experiences that I'm aware of since probably early 2000 in the early 2000s.
And it coincided around about the time I had my hysterectomy for the most part.
But so it's been maybe 25 years, like I said, that I recall consciously.
But there have been other things that have been happening to me on some different level.
I don't know any other way to explain it without sounding like new agey woo-woo, but there's been kind of an increase in my, how do I put this?
Well, spirituality, no doubt.
I'm not a religious person and I never was, but I've become more spiritual and more connected to life on earth and everywhere, life in general.
I've also become more interested in physics and I suck at math and I'm not very smart with that stuff, but I don't know why I'm attracted to it.
So I read stuff about it, even though I have no idea what I'm reading.
So it's all part of this process of trying to make sense of it all, I think.
But it leaves you in a difficult position, doesn't it?
Because all of this happened and you still haven't been able to rationalize it.
And of course, sadly, Bud Hopkins left us exactly a decade ago, 2011.
He died, as far as I read.
And so what do you do in that situation?
Who do you turn to now?
Well, I've been very blessed that I have always had the support of my family and my friends, even my coworkers and my employers, you know, through life.
And I know a lot of people who've had the experiences I've had have not been so fortunate.
And in my gratitude, I want to pay it forward.
So I've been, I've connected with people like me and I've built myself a little bit of a network of people like me that have had experiences and feelings similar to mine.
And we lean on each other and we talk to each other about it.
And I've tried to put my story out there so that people can see that, if you didn't know this part of my life about me, you might think I was just like your average next-door neighbor person.
You know, I'm single.
I've been a mom and a grandma.
I worked in a factory for 15 years.
You know what I mean?
You're telling people this could happen to you too, and it's okay.
And it's okay.
It's all right.
I mean, and if it's happening to you now, you're going to be okay.
You're not going to, you don't have to go crazy.
You're going to be okay.
You're not alone.
And I'm really happy to see here in recent, just recently, the United States government starting to, you know, release a few things that say, hey, you know, these things might actually be real.
It makes me feel better.
You know what I mean?
Like, look, I told you that I saw this.
And, you know, why would somebody lie about, why would somebody lie about something like this?
Of course, you know, like I said, I'm 30 years ago.
Why would you want to be famous or, you know, about this?
And why would you want to bring it back up now?
The one thing that's missing slightly is you mentioned your mom.
Your mom said that's where the UFO landed.
And you haven't really talked about your mom since then.
She was a part of this.
What has she been through?
What did she go through?
Yeah, my mom has passed away now about 20 years ago.
She died of lung cancer.
But I know that my mom was adopted.
She was adopted at the age of two.
She was adopted by a master sergeant in the army who took her all over the world.
And she lived in China and all over the place as a child.
But she does recall a dream, or not a dream.
She recalls playing with a little boy in a wooded area somewhere.
She thinks it might have been down in Kentucky and that he was chasing her through the woods and she fell and got this mark on her leg, which incidentally is identical or was identical to the mark on my leg in the same place that I got that I felt I'd gotten by playing with a little boy.
I know how strange is that.
There are commonalities through both your lives.
Yes.
You sadly lost her 20 years ago.
How did she rationalize it up to the point when she left us?
She felt that something was going on.
She'd seen enough that she realized that something was going on.
And of course, you know, I said they were, they stood by me.
They knew they knew my, my parents knew me.
They knew I didn't lie about stuff.
And so, and my mom was there and she knew the night was strange.
She'd seen the light in the pump house.
And she later recalled seeing, she said the reason that she called me back home that night, that she didn't remember this for like a week later, is she was standing at the kitchen window and there's a bird feeder right out in front of, right by, you know, out front of the window there, which was between the window and where the mark in the yard appeared.
And she said there was a ball of light that suddenly came around the bird feeder, about the size of a basketball, quite soft, which is very similar to the light that I said I saw after the bright light, you know.
And she said that as soon as the light, she thought at first somebody with the flashlight beam was shining on that.
And so she tried to look for, see if there was a beam and where it might be, and she didn't see any.
And then she thought, well, maybe there's somebody driving up the driveway and it's a headlight.
But she watched and waited and didn't see anything.
And she said, and that's all of a sudden she got it in her head.
Debbie needs to come home right now.
You need to call her.
And so she did.
And as soon as she called me, the light went away.
So there was something deeply, deeply strange about that night.
Very, very strange, yes.
And you've also found yourself making parallels between this, you know, supposed sort of ET style UFO contact and ghosts and things, because I know you do some ghost investigations, don't you?
Yes, I haven't done it for a while.
Life is a way of yanking your chain in 100 directions, but I got involved in paranormal research in the, like around 2005.
It just seems so, because I had so many paranormal events happen in my house, in my parents' home, in my own homes, along with this stuff, it felt to me like, well, there has to be a reason why, you know, is it us?
Is it them?
You know, so I got involved in paranormal research.
I become a MUFON investigator.
One of the ways I try to deal with things that I'm afraid of is to get as much knowledge about it as I can because I figure knowledge is power and power reduces your fear, you know, when you feel you're empowered.
So that's why I became an investigator for MOOFON for many years here in Indiana.
That's the mutual UFO network, which I don't do that anymore.
And are there many cases?
I know Peter Davenport from the National UFO Reporting Center.
I know that's not MOOFON.
Are there many cases in Indiana?
There were at the time.
We were having a lot.
Matter of fact, one of ours right here in Kokomo made the national news.
We called it the Kokomo Boom back in 2006 or 2005.
And I was on that case and I was also a witness.
Imagine that.
And what did you experience?
Well, that night, see, I had been seeing these orange balls of light since about March.
And I came running, and it had been the first time I'd seen anything in the sky for years.
And I came home in frantic and excited and told my husband, and he's like, yeah, whatever.
And so I was like making nightly treks out to the park with my camera.
And I was bound and determined to catch these on video so I could prove to him that I wasn't crazy and that I was seeing them.
And I knew Mufan was getting a lot of reports for them.
And the night of the boom, I actually was out very close to what they call ground zero in the park with my camera.
And I had recorded one of the orange balls of light.
And I got, I could see the, I think they're F-16s from the military base about 18 miles north out here flying around All of a sudden, and then went home and felt like I was missing something.
So, I was standing out at the end of my driveway with my cam recorder, and you couldn't see anything, but all of a sudden, all the dogs and animals in the neighborhood started howling all at the same time.
And you can hear it on this video, and it's very unnerving.
I go back inside, and I get in my office, and I'm starting up trying to put this video on my computer.
And I remember looking at the clock, and it was 10-25 p.m.
And I saw a bright orange flash out of out of my window, and my entire house shook, and it sounded like something hit my roof of my house.
And I'm like, oh my God, the first thing I thought was that a couple of those jets had crashed, and that thump in my mind automatically went to, it was a pilot that had ejected, you know, because I was very close to it and hit my roof.
So I ran outside in my nightgown and my house coat trying to look around for a parachute and an eject seat.
Later, my son calls me, and we have the whole big Kokomo boom.
And I downloaded, I listened online to the police scanner as it happened and recorded the whole thing.
And they were talking about they were at the only known debris field and there was a plane down and all this other jazz.
And then they suddenly back up and they're like, oh, there was no plane crash.
No, no, no, no.
You think there may have been something akin to Roswell that happened that night?
There were 100 and something big happened over Kokomo that night.
149 people called into the police department that night to report it.
And some of those people reported seeing a crash in the sky.
And a couple people reported a disc that was like an octagon shape with blue lights around it in the sky just prior to this boom.
So something definitely happened that night.
And I was right out in the middle of this.
Again.
So what this is telling me is that even if you want to move forward, this stuff doesn't leave you alone.
You know what?
Here's the thing.
When my late husband, I was married before I was married to this guy I'm married to now.
26 years ago, my late husband committed suicide and it was very traumatic.
And actually, I witnessed it.
He did it in our backyard with a 12 gauge.
And I mean, that was very traumatic and horrible.
And, you know, at that point in my life, I'm like, I didn't want to talk to anybody or do anything.
I tried to pull, I didn't want to, that's when I, I didn't want to be a, I didn't want to do anything.
I just wanted to heal and be a mother and move on, you know?
And I tried to pull myself out of everything.
I didn't want to have nothing to do that wouldn't talk about it, wouldn't go, you know what I mean?
And I've done that a couple other times in my life too, trying to back out of it and just leave me alone.
I didn't ask for this.
Go away.
It never leaves me alone.
Something always happens to dropkick me right back into the middle of it again.
So I finally said, okay, I'm yours.
What do you want me to do?
Can you find peace at any time within yourself, bearing in mind all of this stuff has been around you all of your life and you're still trying to make sense of it?
Can you consider yourself to be at peace?
I consider myself to be in a lot better place than I was 25 to 35 years ago.
Definitely.
I've reached a point in my life where I no longer care if people think I'm crazy.
I mean, I've always, I was the fat girl anyway, so I was always kind of self-conscious.
And so when I would go and talk about this in public, not only was I worried about what they were thinking about me, I was worried about that they were thinking, oh my God, look how fat she is.
People are so damn judgmental, aren't they?
You know, and I mean, I hadn't, my self-esteem was real crappy and everything, but I have luxury now at the age of 62.
I feel like, I don't give a shit what none of you think about me.
I don't care.
And I'm going to tell my story.
And my kids are grown now, and my kids are okay with me telling the story.
That's the only thing I care about is what they think and how they feel.
They're the most important thing to me.
And this story is a part of my life.
It's a part of who I am.
And even though some of it's been scary and hard, I wouldn't change anything because it's all made me where I am, who I am today.
And I'm pretty good with who I am.
I mean, I'm not perfect.
I'm going to be a work in progress till my last breath.
Deb, I think we all are.
I'm pretty good, though.
You are.
And thank you for sharing the story with me, Deb.
It is.
Thank you for asking.
I appreciate it.
It's quite a story.
And the revised edition of your book, is that also called Abducted?
No, actually, because the book is so much different now, I just went ahead and you'll find Abducted within this book because that's my story.
That's the story of my life, and that's where it starts.
But the book is so expanded and so new that it's got a whole new title now.
It's called Extraordinary Contact, Life Beyond Intruders.
Wow.
Deb, thank you so much.
And give my love to a place that wasn't immortalized by the Beach Boys, Kokomo.
I will do that.
Thank you so much.
And my thanks to Debbie Corbel for being part of this show.
And thank you to Becky for suggesting her.
If you have a guest suggestion, please email me through my website, theunexplained.tv.
Follow the link and you can send me an email from there.
And when you do get in touch, you know what I'm going to say.
Tell me who you are, where you are, and how you use this show.
My name is Howard Hughes.
This has been The Unexplained online.
And please, until next we meet, stay calm, stay safe, and please stay in touch.
I'm just going to go and check that there are no more wasps in here.
Take care.
▲
Export Selection