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June 13, 2020 - The Unexplained - Howard Hughes
59:35
Edition 462 - Stewart Swerdlow
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Across the UK, across continental North America and around the world on the internet, by webcast and by podcast, my name is Howard Hughes and this is The Return of the Unexplained.
Well, I know I talk about the weather from time to time on this show.
Maybe, maybe too much, some people think.
But the weather has changed completely here in London Town.
It is now dull.
We've had a lot of rain over the last couple of days, and sometimes it's cool, and sometimes it's humid.
Who knows what it's going to do next?
But most of the time, of course, we're still in lockdown, so it's not possible to get out and enjoy it as much as I might like to.
Thank you very much for all of your emails, by the way, sharing your experiences of lockdown, telling me your stories, and making guest suggestions.
They're always gratefully received.
If you want to send me an email, you can go to the website theunexplained.tv, designed and created by Adam.
Thank you, Adam.
And send me an email from there by following the link.
And if you'd like to leave a donation for the show to allow it to continue, you can do that at the website too, theunexplained.tv.
And if you have made a donation recently, thank you very much.
The guest on this edition of The Unexplained, Stuart and Janet Swerdlow, mainly Stuart Swerdlow.
And we're going to be talking about their work, but mainly about his experience of the Montauk project.
We talked about this with Preston Nichols on the radio show a while back.
And I wanted to get Stuart Swerdlow on here to speak a little more about how he feels about it, what he thinks about it all in 2020.
He did a lot of interviews about a decade or so ago about Montauk.
And we're going to talk some more about this.
And the thing that really spurred me to do this was that I played again on the radio show my 2005 interview with Al Bierlick.
Now, the Philadelphia experiment that he was involved in, he says, was connected with Montauk.
And I've never quite totally understood that connection.
So we're going to try and iron that out here.
And I think you're going to be interested in what you're going to hear.
So that's the guest on this edition, Stuart and Janet Swerdlow from the United States coming soon.
Don't forget, if you want to get in touch, please tell me who you are, where you are, and how you use this show.
Your emails, gratefully received, especially after all of these weeks and weeks and weeks in lockdown.
Glenn, thank you for your email.
Glenn told me that he thinks I've been in lockdown for 12 weeks now.
I don't know, doing everything from my home, my little flat, my little apartment.
Just a couple of quick shout outs.
Peter, thank you for your email.
Matthew in Cheshire, thank you.
Rachel, good to hear from you.
Chris in Lincolnshire.
Terry asks about night terrors and whether we should do a show about that.
We have touched upon that on the radio show and on the podcast a number of times, but I think we maybe need to deal with that in greater detail by itself.
And of course, we have talked about shadow people and that sort of stuff many times before, but we need to go deeper.
Thank you for that.
If you want to send me an email, like I say, theunexplained.tv, the one-stop shop for this show.
Whatever happens to the radio show or anything else, this presence online will continue.
Now, we're going to talk about the Montauk project and other things with Stuart Swerglow and Janet Swerglow.
Stuart, thank you very much for coming on The Unexplained.
Well, thank you for inviting us.
It's nice to be here.
Yes, we appreciate the invitation.
No, it's nice to speak with you.
I'm fascinated, as you both know, by the Montauk situation and what happened there to you, Stuart.
But also, I obviously appreciate that the two of you have a current incarnation.
And my listener, I'm sure, will be interested in that.
Talk to me briefly about the work that you're both doing now.
Maybe Janet.
Well, it's kind of interesting because I was doing my work long before I met Stuart, and Stuart was doing his work long before he met me.
And we came together.
One soul, two bodies.
And therefore, our work really is a perfect match.
And we've been doing it for a quarter of a century in this coming July.
And I do recommend that everybody have two bodies.
It's very convenient.
I think it's very good for time management, I guess.
Once it's worn out, you have another one.
There you go.
Okay, so this work that you're doing that I'm not that aware of, I have to say, but what exactly is that in?
Because I know you have a lot of people who consult you, contact you every day.
So what is that about?
We actually teach people to be their own teachers using our techniques of hyperspace and oversoul work.
Wow.
So that's how people can communicate with their own source, the parent of their soul, and get their own answers and make their own decisions and be in charge of their own lives without always having to look to the outer world.
So that's the premise of everything that we do.
Okay.
Well, I love the idea of taking charge.
I think a lot of us would like to have more control over what happens in our lives because I think these days a lot of us feel powerless.
And we felt powerless before we had a global crisis.
I think we feel even more powerless now.
Well, and that's the point is that people don't need to feel powerless.
For example, if you're on lockdown, then what are you locking down inside of yourself that has to be reflected in the outer world?
And so all these things that are going on, if people are in riots, if people are in crisis, what are your inner crises that you have not addressed before?
So once you address the inner world, the outer world for you will settle down.
And is that something that you can call on from some power above you?
Or is that a resource that you have within yourself?
Everybody is connected to their own source.
We call it God-Mind, which connects up to the Absolute and goes on beyond that.
And everybody has it within them.
No one is special.
We don't consider ourselves special.
We just think that we have a lot of issues that we've resolved.
And we teach people the methodology that the two of us have put together and used.
Okay.
Well, that's interesting.
I mean, you know, we can't talk about this in depth now, but a lot of people feel that they're like flotsam on the ocean, just being tossed one way and another.
And, you know, a lot of us feel that in our careers, in our lives, other people are in the driving seat.
I'm curious as to how you think you might empower people.
Well, what we do is we teach you you are in the driver's seat and everything that goes on in the outer world just happens to be a reflection of what's going on in your inner world.
But we also talk about mind pattern analysis.
Of course, I have my work in programming and deprogramming.
And I also do a lot of spiritual work.
And we own a publishing company.
We write and publish our own books.
We have about 35, 40 books already and more coming soon.
So there's many different avenues for people to take control of their own lives.
We talk about exercise, diet, working in dream analysis, everything that you could possibly imagine in a human life.
We have books and visualizations and videos that address all of those issues.
And as we've just said, you know, we both feel we've had a lot of issues, and therefore, as we've addressed them, we teach people the tools and techniques that have helped us.
And then it's up to people to accept or reject that.
But ultimately, our bottom line is always to teach people how to go within, connect to your own source, be your own teacher, and do not rely on the outer world.
You rely on the inner world.
I've got a lot of sympathy for what you're saying, because I think from my own life's experience, quite often the things that I've wanted and wanted sincerely, I've got.
And if I've been doing jobs that I wasn't completely committed to or working for people that I didn't really like, you know, I felt that way inside, it never worked out for me.
So things always worked best for me when I took charge.
Is that, in a nutshell, what you're saying?
Well, it's a little bit more than that, because in order to understand the situation, you need to know the mind pattern that created it.
And once you understand the mind pattern and the origin of the mind pattern, then you can work on releasing that and replacing it with one that is more appropriate for what you want to do in your life.
Well, I think we need to talk about this some more in another edition.
I wasn't aware of any of this.
And, you know, it's always interesting.
And I think ways that people can try to improve their lot, I think I'm all for any of those.
So, Janet, thank you very much for being part of this.
If you want to be part of the conversation that I'm going to have with Stuart about Montauk, by all means, if there's anything you want to chip in and say, go ahead and say it.
All right, thank you.
All right, thank you.
Now, Stuart, the reason I wanted to get you on here is to talk about a subject that has perennially fascinated me, and that is the so-called Montauk project.
I spoke to Preston Nichols some while ago, who, as you know, had involvement in that.
It is a disturbing story, and it is one that you had a personal part in.
And if I can just, and you tell me if these details are right.
There was a place, it's still there, but it's disused, called Camp Hero at Montauk, which is like a sort of island quite close to New York, I think a Brit would probably say.
And at this place, there was a vast and mostly underground complex.
And at this complex, which was essentially secret, they experimented on human beings mentally and in other ways.
Is that a fair summation?
Yes, that is a good summation, putting it in the bottom line, so to speak.
However, it was, yes, experimentation, but quite wide-ranging and not just on human beings, but of course they did weather manipulation, they had weapons testing, they did exploration into time and space.
So it went beyond just the individual being experimented upon.
And yes, the Montauk Point, this so-called Camp Hero, was approximately 120 miles east of New York City, and it was surrounded on three sides by the Atlantic Ocean.
So it was very limited access from land.
Okay.
And talk to me about you then and how you came to be enmeshed in what you said was going on there.
Well, you know, as I was thinking about this interview and what the subject matter was, it dawned on me that it began 50 years ago, a half a century ago.
Good Lord.
And if we think back, you know, 50 years ago sounds like a period in prehistory, doesn't it?
But that's 1970.
Yes, it began in 1970, and I was only 13 years old at the time.
Now, why or how I became involved in it was because of my family.
And many, perhaps, of your listeners know that have been familiar with my work.
My family was from the Soviet Union.
My great uncle, Jakob Sviritlov, was the first president of the Soviet Union.
So because of that, my family is very closely monitored in the United States.
My father was working in an underground base in El Paso, Texas.
And we were always monitored.
And so the government at the time and subsequently used people who were associated with military and with governments, and they used them in these projects.
Now, at the time, the United States was in the middle of the Cold War with the Soviet Union.
And of course, there was a question of loyalty of my family for that time period and beyond.
So did they think that you were, and this is a term that they used to use when I was a kid, but did they think you were still connected with the Reds?
Well, yes.
You know, you have to remember in the United States, the McCarthy era, where anybody that was even remotely suspicious was considered to be a communist or a spy.
Now, the truth of the matter was my grandmother was a spy for the Soviet Union.
However, that was during World War II.
And so she actually was working with the Soviet Union against the Germans.
So how would your father have answered the question that was at the core of McCarthyism?
Are you now or have you ever been a member of the Communist Party?
Well, of course, he would say no, and he always, my whole life, spoke against them.
You know, my great uncle was a dictator.
He unfortunately murdered almost 2 million people in the Soviet Union.
And so it was a very, very difficult time.
And so the family that came here dissociated from that time period and never spoke about it.
My father hardly ever spoke about it.
And even my grandmother, who came to the United States and was actually rewarded by the Soviet Union for her work, we have to remember in World War II that the United States and Britain and Soviet Union were basically on the same side of that war.
So they were allies.
It was only subsequently after the war that these difficulties between nations began that way.
But nevertheless, as a child, being under scrutiny, having somebody overlooking you or checking you, is something that you were used to from a very early age, disturbingly enough.
Correct.
Our phones were tapped.
Our mail was always opened.
My father was followed constantly when I was a child by Secret Service.
Yes, it was not pleasant.
And quite frankly, it's still not pleasant.
You say it's still not pleasant.
Do you think you're still being scrutinized?
Oh, there's no question about that one.
And we are basically, you know, look, and I don't like to really get into political things these days, but the United States, up until a few years ago, was very much involved in manipulation and control and spying on people.
And they still are in some factions, yes, that's hopefully being dismantled.
But yes, it was a very difficult situation my whole life.
And there was a time back in the early 90s when the American government took me into a prison camp and interrogated me for over one year.
And interestingly, after that, they sent me to Philadelphia Naval Base, where, of course, the Philadelphia Project began.
And I was working there also and being interrogated.
So yes, not much changed in those 50 years.
But unfortunately, that was a situation.
And hopefully, I hope that this will change in the near future.
So, Stuart, do you, I mean, from what, from that description of you being, and I want to talk about the earlier history of COSP, but you being basically taken away in the 90s and then put to work as well as being taken away, it makes it kind of sound like, and I've heard some of these things discussed in this way to do with descriptions of secret services and how they work.
It almost sounds like the secret services, if all of this is true, kind of regarded you as being property.
Yes, yes, that is correct.
But not just property.
I was regarded as a source of information.
I was asked questions about Soviet Union.
For example, I'll give you an example.
One time in New York City, it was, I think, 1993, 93 or 04, I was literally pulled into a men's room of a federal building and shown satellite photographs of Area 51 that was taken by Soviet satellites.
And I was asked, why were these pictures taken and what were they doing with them?
Why would they think you would know that?
Well, that's a very good question.
And that's what I asked them.
You know, guilty by association.
Because my family is from Soviet Union and because of my, you know, all of these connections, they assume that you are still associated with that.
I was asked in a prison camp in the state of Kentucky.
I was interrogated and I was asked, if the United States were to be invaded, who would you support?
Now, you have to remember, I was in a condition where, you know, I had to know what the answer was going, the results of my answer.
So, of course, I told them, oh, well, of course, I support the United States.
And I do support the United States.
But of course, it's a stupid question to ask me because if I said I support whoever invades the United States, what would they do with me?
Well, it is a bit of a crazy question.
There is some, I think it's still on the immigration forms.
You know, if you come in from, you won't know this, but maybe you do.
If you come in from other countries like the United Kingdom, there was a question I seem to remember.
Do you intend to overthrow the government of the United States by force?
How on earth are you, if you're going for a holiday for two weeks in Florida, how are you going to answer that question?
I mean, who answers yes to that?
Well, there was a very famous, I've forgotten his name now, one of my listeners will tell me, a very famous British intellectual and broadcaster who actually wrote Sole Purpose of Visit.
Maybe during the conversation, I'll remember who that was, but he was a great British intellectual, I think, and academic and broadcaster.
And his name will come back to me.
Okay, we need to wind it back then, because the beginnings of all of this are fascinating.
Now, I have interviewed the late Al Bielik about the Philadelphia experiment, where, as you know, it is claimed a naval ship was essentially time-shifted 40 years forward initially.
Well, he was time-shifted along with his brother, who was also in the Navy, time-shifted to 1983 from 1943.
They were attempting, using various electromagnetic means, to essentially render this ship called the Eldridge invisible.
Certainly invisible to radar, but possibly invisible to the naked eye.
And this experiment got out of hand, and they found themselves being transported in time and space.
And as you will be aware, the story goes that some members of the crew ended up being beamed away from the ship, but not fully, so they ended up being displaced within the ship and their bodies sometimes stuck between metal plates.
They died horrific deaths.
But Al-Bielik himself tells the story of how he was catapulted forward to 1983.
And there he saw the realities of life in 1983, as he told me, Boeing 747 jets going to Hawaii, inconceivable in 1943 where he'd come from.
And he was sent back by an older version of the man who was behind the experiment back to 1943 to essentially destroy the equipment on board the Eldridge, and then it was all covered up.
Now, that was the story of the Philadelphia experiment.
I think he also said that his brother stayed in 1983.
I think that's the way that he put it when I spoke with him at length in 2005.
Anyway, that is the story.
But there is a link that I never totally understood between that and the so-called Montauk project, this Camp Hero at Montauk.
So what is that link between what is claimed to be that secret work and what went on at Montauk?
Well, first of all, I know all of them, as you can imagine.
Duncan passed away last year.
Right, Duncan was the brother?
Yes, Duncan Cameron.
And I knew him for 49 years.
Anyway, it was a very sad thing, you know, because Preston passed away just six or seven months before that.
And of course, Al died many years ago.
So for me, it felt kind of lonely.
It still does, being the one left.
Obviously, I never got a chance to speak to the brother.
You knew him.
What kind of a story did he tell you about all of this?
I mean, was it...
How did he come across to you?
I knew Duncan for almost half a century, and he was the most honest, caring, most wonderful person.
And of course, my initial connection to him was not so pleasant because he was the lead psychic on the Montauk chair.
And my job, one of my jobs, was to be a booster for him, or what they called a battery, where they would use my energy to help charge him up so that he could do the mental and energetic experiments that they were working on.
But the connection, as you asked earlier, between Philadelphia experiment and Montauk was one of electromagnetic sequences, because both of these experiments in their own time periods were using electromagnetic equipment.
And in Philadelphia in 1943, when they turned on the equipment and the Eldritch became non-physical and so on, there was a connection at that moment in time to an experiment occurring in simultaneous existence at Montauk, also electromagnetically.
And so like attracts like.
And so there was a connection between Philadelphia in 1943 and the Montauk Project in 1983.
And an effect created a time loop or a pathway was connected between those two points in time and space, which is permanently now connected.
And that is the connection that you're looking for.
Now, many years later, I was working in Oregon, and a gentleman came to see me for what he said was a consultation, but it was actually for to tell me something.
He had been a courier during the time of the Montauk project and would bring papers and information back and forth from NSA headquarters in Fort Dietrich to Montauk and so on.
And he told me that many of the survivors of the Philadelphia experiment as well as the Montauk project were in a so-called nursing home in the mountains of Oregon, where they were continued to be experimented upon so that the scientists could see the results of long-term effects from this work.
Now, that was a few years ago, so it's very likely that many of those, if not all of them, have passed away.
But I know that in Montauk, only 1% of us or less than 1% of us survived these horrific experiments that were performed.
So are you saying that, and this is the story that I seem to remember hearing from Preston Nichols, that a lot of young people, they were mostly men, I think, male, rather, were essentially abducted, taken away from their homes.
And because they'd had a sort of military connection, you know, it was all in the family sort of thing.
And they were then experimented on.
I think a lot of people, hearing this now, would find that very hard to believe that such a thing could happen in 1970.
You know, it might have happened in 1910, but in 1970, when there was a free media that reached everybody, you are saying that a lot of people, and you say vast numbers of young men were involved in this thing, were simply taken away for periods and used as part of an experiment.
Well, first of all, let me tell you that there has never been a free media, and there still is not.
So that is not even a factor.
And the next thing is in the very beginning of the experiment, they did not use military people.
They first used derelicts, alcoholics, drug addicts, orphans, foster children, people who would be considered expendable, people who nobody really would miss them if they were used.
And they were used.
And they were used kind of like, I don't even know the word in English, like when you send something out to see where it goes.
Because in the Mantra Project, they would send people through the vortex that they would create or vortices that they would create.
And sometimes they didn't know where that vortex would end.
They had been given information from alien groups with coordinates.
If you use this frequency, you'll end up here, that frequency there, and so on.
And then they found out that not all of this information Was correct, that these extraterrestrials had given false information for much of it.
So, are you saying that the whole Montauk thing was set up with the collusion, the involvement of aliens, because it was essentially their technology?
It was alien technology, yes.
However, the experiment was from the United States government, but also used Nazi scientists that were brought from Project Paperclip after the war.
And there was even a couple of times there were Soviet scientists there that I remember.
So it was quite a global effort.
And you said that the sorts of equipment that was used at the Philadelphia experiment, electromagnetic equipment that could transpose things in time and space, that is the gear that was being used at Montauk.
And these unwilling volunteers were brought in, these people who were conscripted to do this, and essentially put through these, as you call them, vortices and sent to places.
Sometimes they had an idea where they were going and sometimes they didn't.
This sounds astonishing.
Well, and not only that, they would be wearing what we called anchors.
In other words, the person who was sent into the vortex would have a device on them that they would plant at the location that they arrived at to create an endpoint, if you will, so that in the future they would know that this frequency ends up in this particular point in time and space.
However, there were times when the person would wind up in deep space or under an ocean or inside a rock and so on.
That was the end of that.
And so it was a hit and miss for a few years until they would map out frequency points so that they knew, at least in a bandwidth sort of way, that within this bandwidth, they would be in a certain particular location.
So are you saying that someone somewhere in some secret organization has effectively a directory of these frequencies?
And if you use this equipment, which I don't know if it still exists, if you use this equipment, it will take you there or here.
Yes, the equipment still exists.
The information still exists.
Absolutely.
But I want to clarify something.
In 1943, Philadelphia experiment, that was the use of Tesla equipment.
In Montauk, it was more Tesla modified by alien information that was given subsequently.
And to the best of your knowledge, the aliens, and you can tell me who they were, you think, they found out that the Americans were working on this stuff and they said, hold on, guys, we know more about this.
Is that how that happened?
Was it a kind of cooperation?
Well, Howard, it's a very, very long story.
But the United States government and even the Soviet government and the German government had been in contact with these beings since the 1920s.
It wasn't anything new.
And in fact, the Germans used the technology from a star system called Eldebaron to create devices during, just before and during World War II, which was subsequently transferred to a base in Antarctica, Neuschwabenland.
And after the war, it's, again, a long story, but there was a project high jump where the United States and Britain attacked Antarctica in 1946, 1947.
And they were driven back by this technology.
And so it was then that the Americans realized that they had no defense against this German Third Reich, which then became Fourth Reich technology.
And that's when they brought the scientists into the United States.
They put them into aerospace corporations, inter-military, and so on.
And that's developed over a period of time.
So that by the time 1970, by the time Montauk project was beginning, there were many, many fourth-right scientists working with alien technology that they had had for decades and decades that were still being developed and researched.
So it's a very complicated situation and story.
And it sounds to me as if you believe it's still ongoing, all of this.
Oh, I know.
I know that it's still ongoing.
And quite frankly, that's why we are in the political, global situation we're in now.
Okay.
Now, the idea, I'm sorry for my slight pause there because I'm just working out how to phrase this, but it will sound outlandish to a lot of people that a government or an organization would experiment on its own citizenry.
You know, if they wanted to get people to travel in time and dimensionally, I'm sure that there would have been volunteers for that.
You know, the kind of thing, the kind of spirit that gets people to volunteer to go into space, they may lose their lives and they know that when they do it, but they're pushing back the bounds of what we know.
I think the bit that won't add up for some people is why you say it was felt necessary to experiment on ordinary people.
The reason is, Howard, that the agenda or the motivation or end goal was not in alignment with national public goals.
There is an agenda behind all of it.
And again, I emphasize the fact that much of it was initiated by the Third Reich, who openly used slave labor, and that was just normal to them.
And when these scientists were brought here in Project Paperclip, that idea carried forward.
And of course, that would be unacceptable to the Western world, to the American public, British public.
And so this was all kept very quiet and confidential, even to this very day.
But I also know that little by little, the information is being revealed.
Look, if people knew what your government, what the American government, all these governments have done over the years behind their backs, there would be a revolution.
And there is a revolution right now.
And so there's a lot that the governments or the people in charge keep quiet from the population because the population would not accept it.
But you are saying, I saw that you, certainly it was a quotation from you that I saw today: that it wasn't just a few people or maybe a couple of hundred people who were drafted in, if that's the phrase to use, into this project, including yourself.
There were thousands.
Hundreds of thousands.
Hundreds of thousands.
Yes.
In the United States alone, I just have to say, in the United States alone, every year, 600,000 people go missing.
I think it's even more than that.
And that's just in the United States.
So if you extrapolate that worldwide, then you kind of have a bigger picture of where all these people are coming from.
I get the point, Charlotte.
So we're basically saying, and as you said at the top of this, that there are some people who could be taken away.
And if they disappeared, then there wouldn't be a problem.
Nobody would have to explain.
Well, the issue is that so many people disappear without a trace every year that it's not unusual.
What about you, then?
How were you deputed, if that's the word?
How were you brought into this?
Again, it was because of my family background and because of the Soviet Union and the loyalty situation that was going on.
Plus, in addition, and this is probably another thing that will maybe astonish you and your audience, but my birth was not natural.
I was a created birth.
And this is in medical books in the 1950s when I was born.
A created birth.
Yes.
In fact, when my mother went into labor and she went into the emergency room, they said this was impossible for her to be pregnant because her birth canal was sealed up, that there was no way for her to become pregnant.
And so they transferred her to a hotel, not hotel, a hospital, that wasn't open yet.
It was under construction, no heat or anything.
And they put her in a room and they brought in someone that they said just happened to be available in the area that knew about how to do this.
And they operated on her to create a birth canal and literally pulled me out.
She said when I was born, I looked like I had been dropped from a high level and black and blue all over the place.
And that was my birth.
And she never spoke too much about it.
But subsequently, when I was growing up, I was taken to many, I use the word loosely, doctors and dentists, that experimented on me very, very painfully on a weekly basis until I was about 13 years old.
And then I went to Montek Project.
Okay, and these people that you were taken to, they weren't just as I would book an appointment.
These people who were somehow connected, you think, to the Secret Service?
They were connected to, I think, Nazis because the doctor that my so-called pediatrician, he was an Engela.
I know that for a fact, because you match the identical face and so on.
He was in the United States.
He was in Europe.
He was in South America.
He was all over.
They called him Dr. Green.
Dr. Green.
He had no identity.
And he passed away finally in 1987.
And his body was found in the Atlantic Ocean off the coast of Brazil and was identified through dental records.
And then the story was dropped from the news.
But I was, when I went to his office every Friday afternoon, I was the only one.
There was no other people there, no other children there.
And I confronted my mother many years later about it.
And she said, well, it wasn't every Friday, finally, she admitted.
And then she would tell me how they would watch me from behind the door.
So I wouldn't know they were watching me to see what I would do and how I would react to certain stimulus and so on.
So it was an ongoing experiment.
And when you say experiments or experiment, I mean, I hesitate to ask this, but what were they doing to you?
Well, it was very painful.
I can only say sexual examination, implants in my teeth, trauma to my eyes and to my ears, and so on.
Very, very painful examinations.
And what about you?
What sort of age are we talking about?
Well, from the time I was born until I was about 13.
And did you not think of, as many people would think, of sort of absconding and saying, these people are doing this to me?
You have to understand, when you don't know anything else and the abnormal is the normal, then I had no idea that other people didn't go through this.
Okay, I understand.
It sounds horrendous.
And then you found yourself, as far as the story I've read goes, essentially being sometimes by what looked like electromagnetic means, Star Trek style means, you found yourself regularly being abducted from your home and being taken to Montauk for experiments.
That's correct.
But there were times when I would wake up in the middle of the night and there would be a light in my closet in my bedroom.
And I would open the door of my closet and step through and I was someplace else.
And what did...
Were you put through vortices?
Absolutely.
Where did you go?
Oh, well, you must read my books, Howard.
Yes, I was sent to Mars.
I was sent to the time of Christ.
I was sent to the moon, many different locations.
And when it comes to Mars, as you know, 2020 and 2021 are going to be pretty crucial years for the exploration of Mars.
If you've been there, can you tell me anything about what may be subsequently about to be found?
Well, when they get there, they're going to see they're not the first ones.
And I assure You that the government already knows that, and that most of the space projects that have existed was for public consumption only.
Behind the scenes, there was another space project that has existed since actually the late 1940s, early 1950s.
And the Soviet Union and the United States had been had bases on the moon since 1957.
And I will even tell you that the Germans had craft that could get to the moon in 1939 and even onto Mars.
Okay.
And how come this is a question that you may even laugh at.
If that is the case, if there were bases on the moon and if the Germans got way out into space in 1939, we've got a lot of astronomers these days, a lot of radio telescopes, a lot of kit probing the cosmos.
How come they haven't found evidence of any of that?
They do have evidence of it.
And what do you think that they're going to tell the public?
Of course, you know, that's why when they send the probe to the moon or to any place else and it takes pictures, it takes days and days and maybe weeks until the pictures are released to the public.
Why?
Because there's an entire department in NASA that doctors them up for the public and that's what they give out.
So whatever you see on the news is not true.
You told me that you were sent back to the time of Christ.
What was that like?
Well, I was sent back to kill him.
I was sent back with a weapon.
Why would, now that this is all getting complicated, extraordinary, what sort of weapon were you sent back with, and why were you sent back with that weapon to kill Christ?
It was a pistol.
And the people who wanted this to occur were interested in the elimination of Christianity from the world because they worshipped satanic entities.
And so when I was sent back, I could not do it.
I stood on this beginning of a building with steps that were going up with the columns.
And he came out and looked at me and I couldn't do it and I ran away.
And I was punished for that.
And then I was tortured.
I don't even want to go into it.
I mean, torture is a, obviously it's an unpleasant thing and you wouldn't want to recall it.
That story about going back to the time of Christ, though, is going to sound so outrageous to an awful lot of people.
Is there anything that you could give me here that would stand that up?
I mean, for example, if I went back to that time, then I probably would have put in my, you know, I'm sure that my superiors would not have liked it, but I'd have put in my pocket a plate or a cup or a coin or something that would prove that I'd been there.
You know, when you are 14 or 15 years old, you don't think about coming back to prove anything.
And plus, even if I did, it would have been confiscated.
The second time they sent me back, he was already on the cross, and my job was to extract a vial of blood, which I did.
And they used that blood to clone another Christ, which was used as a staged second coming.
Now, if that is going to actually happen now with all that's going on with this new government and things that have changed, I don't know.
But I know that there is a clone, the Christ, that exists.
When you said you were sent back to save Christ, did you have a weapon with you?
No, I was sent back to take the vial of blood.
Okay, I'm just wondering because I'm wondering why you didn't try and save him.
How could I save him?
He was on a cross.
And there was no, what was I supposed to do?
I knew that if I did not fulfill that mission, I probably would never be around again.
And so I took the vial of blood.
And that vial of blood was sent to the base on Mars, where it was cloned.
Okay.
It's very hard to prove any of this, isn't it?
Well, it's not like they're going to give me a document to say, here, this will verify everything you're saying.
But eventually, one day it will be.
And I hope with this government that we have, and that will be successful, that at some point they will have this information available.
You say that a lot of people, and they were mostly boys, young men, who were involved in this project.
And the attrition rate, you also say, was enormous, that most people who went through all of this didn't come out.
That's right.
How come you did?
That was the question.
I was an anomaly.
And not only that I survived, I remembered.
They couldn't wipe my memory.
So this became actually a negative thing for me because that exposed me to more experimentation to determine why I could remember and survive.
And if human life was worth so little to them, and because you know so much, why have they never tried to kill you?
That's also a very good question.
Sometimes I get insulted when people say that.
It's like they're disappointed I'm alive.
But I have asked this question.
I'm very pleased that you're alive.
I just want to get that clear.
So I have been asked that question, and I actually asked to one of my deep programmers, why don't you just kill me?
Because I don't want to do this anymore.
I don't want to survive like this.
The answer that they gave me was, you are more dangerous to us dead than alive.
So we would rather keep you alive because dead, you could do bad things to us.
How?
When you don't have a body and you can do what you wish energetically and you know how to assassinate people, then you become very dangerous.
Okay.
Boy, I mean, this is a big story.
How do you live with all of this?
This is why I hardly ever leave my house, except when I'm traveling, of course, which I go every place.
Well, I'm not anymore since this insanity began.
But I basically don't stay around people too much.
Now, you say in what you've written that Montalk was for more than just those experiments In time and dimensions, and all the rest of it.
But it was also about essentially beaming ideas, beaming thoughts into people's minds.
How did that work?
Well, it wasn't exactly beaming thoughts, it was mind control and programming.
In the old days, there would actually be a programming session where the person would be brought to the point of extreme fear and fragmentation.
So the mind would fracture, and then they could implant new alter personalities and so on.
Then as technology developed, especially in the mid to late 90s, now they have satellites that can transmit through scalar waves right into your brainwaves, piggybacking your brain waves, and basically rewriting your mind pattern and creating a matrix of alters in your personality.
They've been doing this for quite some time.
And I did see one interview with you where there's a very large radar dish there.
I mean, we have to say that most of this site is underground, but there's a big radar dish.
But I think you were saying that that radar dish was not just for radar, it was for other purposes.
Yeah, that was the Montauk radar tower, which is still there, although it's falling apart.
And that was used not only to transmit mind control waves, especially to the local area, but also to change weather patterns and so on.
It was a very complicated device.
Okay.
Why are you talking about this in 2020?
What do you think people need to know?
I talk about it because you asked me.
No, no, I didn't.
But I asked, but you're talking.
I'll tell you something, Howard.
For many, many years, I was warned not to say anything and not talk about it.
And I never did.
It was only until after, I guess, 9-11, really, after 9-11, then suddenly this became an interesting subject to television and radio.
And I was on many, I can't even count how many radio shows, television shows.
I did movies about this.
And it was interesting to me that people suddenly wanted to know.
And I suppose it was an agenda to slowly reveal this information to the public so that it becomes acceptable.
And that's what we're seeing happening now, actually.
And so the news, the television programs, movies, video games, all these things have a subliminal mind control message that they transmit out in order for people to be accepting of conditions on the world.
I will also say that when we came together and Stuart was interested in doing his healing work, that's what we focused on because we felt that that would not make him a target.
But that did make him a target.
The minute he put his first book out, we became a target.
We were horribly attacked, long story short.
And so I said to him, you know what?
Because we'd been talking about all this other stuff all along.
I said, you know, it doesn't make a difference.
So you just tell what you know.
And that's when he started telling what he knew.
And that's when people started getting interested.
Right.
And if we're all so, I mean, if this is part of a sort of control agenda, then even if you tell people, there's nothing they can do.
Well, that's not true.
Because if you learn how to deprogram yourself, change your mind patterns, use protection techniques and so on, reintegrate the fractured mind, you can do many things.
You can restore the original personality and life force that you're supposed to have.
So do you believe that we're all programmed?
Am I programmed?
Everybody on this planet, if you are breathing, you have a programming because that is global now, completely global.
I don't care if you live in Malawi or Britain or anyplace else, it's the same.
Okay, and how do we get out of the programming?
You said you have a technique for doing it.
I don't expect you to tell me all of your trade secrets and we haven't got time for that anyway, but how does that work?
Well, it's not a technique.
There are deprogramming techniques, plural, depending on the types of programming you have.
And I have many books and videos about what they are and how to remove each one separately, because each one is unique and has its own specific way of unraveling if you do the techniques.
Okay, now you know, and I know that this world has always been, but I think now especially, seems to be replete with people who set themselves up as almost cult leaders, gurus, those sorts of things.
They have a philosophy and they attract followers.
Sometimes they attract a lot of followers and sometimes the people who become followers, I'm not saying in every instance, but they become somewhat brainwashed by the message, it is claimed.
Are you able, and I know this is tangential to what you're talking about, but through the methods that you're talking about here, would you be able to free somebody from that sort of programming?
I don't do it.
I teach them how to do it themselves, and then it's up to them to do it or not do it.
You know, I am not anyone's guru.
I don't want followers.
I simply tell you what I know, and you can take it or leave it.
I really don't care.
And it doesn't change my life if you don't accept it either.
But say if a family came to you and said, look, our daughter has got into this, you know, this, we believe it's a cult, and we think that they've transformed her mind.
I mean, this stuff goes on.
Do you think you have the methods that might help that person?
I would teach them how to undo it, yes.
Okay.
And that's up to them.
I'm not going to do it for them.
I can't do it for them.
Just like I can't eat for you.
I can't sleep for you.
I can't go to the bathroom for you.
But I could tell you how to do it.
All right.
I take your point.
You say that a lot of people essentially disappeared In the whole Montauk situation, and a lot of these people were seen as expendable, which is a horrific thought.
But there were some like yourself who didn't disappear and didn't die, and they were not expunged from the record.
How many people do you think survived?
Well, there were, in my estimation over the 13 years, I figured there was close to 300,000 people that were used.
So if you take 1% of that, what would you get?
3,000 people.
And of those, most could not function in society.
They became alcoholics, drug addicts, criminals, recluses, and so on.
But I'm sure not all of them did because, you know, you've come through it.
There must be some.
How come more are not speaking like you are?
There are many who speak.
You know, I'm not the only one, and I may be the oldest one left.
But there are people who speak about these things.
I do know that there are many who think that they were part of that or who claim to be part of that.
And then when I hear the stories, I think, well, that doesn't sound like what I experienced or what it was like.
And so, you know, I just, I don't really get involved with those people.
I don't really, I just do my own work, my own research, and, you know, provide it for those who are interested.
And that's it.
When was this wound up, the project?
1983.
And if this was being used for 16 years, how many years?
13.
Yeah.
Math is never my good subject.
But if this was being used for that period, 1970 through 1983, as you say, 13 years.
Why would they want to stop doing this if they were getting away with it and it was bringing what they might see as results to them?
Why would they suddenly stop it?
Did they think they were going to get found out?
Well, first of all, they didn't stop it.
It crashed.
It crashed.
The project crashed.
And that's another long story, but I really suggest you read my book on that to get all the details that you are missing.
The project crashed.
And so the equipment had to be dismantled and destroyed because it was being controlled from elsewhere, to make a very long story short.
But it did continue on.
In fact, Britain has a program, probably still operational to this day.
China has a program.
North Korea, Israel, Germany, France, many countries picked it up and created their own mind control experimentation.
And so it was ongoing.
It didn't really end.
It just ended there.
What would you say to people who are listening to this now, who may think this is a most unlikely story?
That's their opinion.
You know, they can believe whatever they like.
It's not my job to convince anybody.
When you try to convince somebody, you already lost the argument.
So just like I can't tell them to believe in God or I can't tell them to brush their teeth every day, it's their choice.
They could take it or leave it.
You ask me about the subject and my experience and I tell you.
And that's, you can, like I say, I don't care who believes it or not.
I know what I experienced.
And I, you know, you could tell me about your life and I'll think, well, you know, that sounds odd, but that was your experience.
Well, odd it is, but I don't think it's interesting enough for people to hear.
If you went through all of this, how have you managed to stay sane?
Who said I'm sane?
Well, I mean, that's a whole other issue.
I mean, what is the definition of sanity?
You're quite right, but you know what I'm saying.
How have you managed to come through then?
Well, listen, it's not easy, and it's been quite a struggle.
And I did try to kill myself several times.
And there are many days I pray that I wish I had been successful because this is a really horrible planet and a horrible world.
And especially now.
Do you have nightmares?
Of course, almost every night.
I don't sleep very much.
And it's not pleasant for me.
That's why I will never stay at anyone's home ever.
And I just have to deal with it the way I deal with it.
Now, if all of this is so, then there would have been, we know, obviously, things have managers and senior officers and controllers.
There would have been human beings behind all of this.
Don't you think that those people, assuming that some of them are going to still be alive, if these things were done, they ought to be brought to book for it?
Absolutely.
And how do you think that might happen?
I mean, we don't want to name names here, but how do you think generally that might happen?
My opinion is based on what's going on in the United States at the moment, that is in the process of happening.
Well, I'll watch this space.
Stuart, it's an astonishing story, and you tell it with, you know, I can hear sincerity in people's voices, so I hear what you say.
And I'm glad that you allowed me to ask you about it, because I know that you don't do interviews about this every day of the week.
In fact, I don't think you've done one about this for a little while, have you?
No, quite honestly, I have no interest in speaking about it anymore.
I've said all that I needed to say.
I've written a book about it and so on.
So anyone who wants the information, they can find it.
I am not interested in that anymore.
I'm more interested in what's going to be from this point on.
Okay.
Well, thank you for discussing this with me.
And Janice, if you're still there, thank you very much indeed.
If people want to know about you in totality, the books, the work, etc., where would they go online?
Go to expansions.com and they will find my website there with all of my information.
We also have Facebook pages and I think, what else do we have?
Instagram and social media.
I have nothing to do with it.
Well, by the sounds of it, you both got the social media nailed down.
Well, thank you for your interest, and I appreciate your audience listening as well.
Stuart and Janet, thank you.
Take care.
Have a good day.
Thank you.
Bye-bye.
Stuart and Janet Swerdlow, your thoughts about them gratefully received.
Please go to my website, theunexplained.tv, and you can send me an email and let me know what you think.
And maybe if you want to make some suggestions about the show, you can do that there too.
It's really good to hear from you as I go into week 11, week 12, whatever it is of lockdown, and hope and pray that very soon we'll all be able to see just a little bit of open space and maybe go somewhere different than our own immediate vicinity.
I think that would make a massive difference to a lot of us, wouldn't it?
Anyway, I hope you're getting them by.
And thank you very much for all of your communications.
More great guests in the pipeline here at The Unexplained.
So until next we meet, my name is Howard Hughes.
This has been The Unexplained Online.
And please, whatever you do, stay safe, stay calm, and above all, please stay in touch.
Thank you very much.
Take care.
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