The Unexplained - Howard Hughes - Edition 406 - Paul Sinclair

Aug. 8, 2019 - The Unexplained - Howard Hughes

01:18:23

Edition 406 - Paul Sinclair

East Yorkshire researcher Paul Sinclair returns to The Unexplained online talking about Truth Proof 3 and plans for Volume 4...

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	Across the UK, across continental North America and around the world on the internet, by webcast and by podcast, my name is Howard Hughes and this is The Unexplained.
	Well, summer continues.
	We're still in August here as we record this and it is still very warm.
	In fact, I was in a cab only last night coming home and the driver was agreeing with me that it is so humid now in London and the air quality is so not good that it's making life very difficult, even though the temperatures are not kind of well into the 30s or 90s here at the moment.
	It's still nevertheless really humid.
	And with the air quality bad, it makes breathing difficult and all sorts of stuff.
	So my thoughts go out to anybody who's got any kind of health problem at this time, because I would imagine that your problems would be 10 times worse.
	But, you know, before we know it, it'll be September, then it'll be October, and then it'll be Christmas.
	Another year goes flashing by.
	Thank you very much for the things that you've been saying about my radio show.
	And you've been asking me to put some of the highlights of the radio show on the podcast here, which I am allowed to do.
	And I did do a certain amount of that a few years ago.
	And then I started getting emails from people saying, why are you putting that on your podcast?
	We've heard that before.
	So I put the very best of the radio show on here.
	I've got a bit of a backlog, including Paul Hellier, Nick Groff, who went down very well on the radio show, and a few others that need to be put on here.
	But bear with me.
	As time goes by, I will try and get those things out as podcasts.
	I have them all on archive here, so that'll be fine, because of course, after a period, the radio shows, say the ones from a year ago, two years ago, whatever, three years ago, they get erased and they will never be heard again.
	So I try and put the best of the radio material here on this podcast at theunexplained.tv, which will continue.
	If you've made a donation to the show recently, can I just say thank you very much indeed?
	There are reasons why your donations are even more vital and I will explain those coming forward.
	But it's very important that if you can make a donation, please consider doing that.
	And if you think, and I know I've said this many times before, but a cup of coffee in the US, $2 basic, £2 in the UK, absolute basic, it's gone in 10 minutes.
	If you donate £2 to this show or whatever you can, then you will enjoy it continuously.
	Unlike a cup of coffee, you've had it and it's gone and you may or may not enjoy that.
	So please consider doing that.
	And if you want to make a donation, thank you if you have.
	Go to the website theunexplained.tv.
	Follow the link from there.
	And the website designed, created and honed by Adam Cornwell from Creative Hotspot in Liverpool.
	You can also go to the website theunexplained.tv if you would like to send me a message and thank you very much if you have recently.
	And when you get in touch, please always tell me who you are, where you are in the world and how you use this show.
	Now the guest on this edition of the show, and I'm not going to hang about talking here, is somebody that you always request because frankly, he's really good.
	And I'm glad to have played a small part in his latest book, Paul Sinclair, the truth-proof researcher.
	He's now on edition three of the book.
	This one is excellent, and we're going to pick our way through it.
	I totally, completely recommend the book, and it's lovely to be quoted not only outside the book on the jacket, but also inside the book.
	I'm very proud of Paul.
	He's one person who did his first interview with me here.
	And I knew then that over time he would become internationally recognized.
	And that's exactly what's happened to Paul.
	And that's exactly what he deserves for a number of reasons.
	The most important one being that he is a great primary researcher.
	He doesn't rehash other people's work.
	He goes and sees and records and then goes back and records.
	And that's how he's produced.
	And I don't know how he does it because he must be working on it all the time.
	The fantastic body of work that he's produced.
	So we're up to truth proof three.
	And we'll talk in just a second with Paul Sinclair in Yorkshire, in the north of England.
	And also we'll throw at him a couple of your questions as well.
	So stand by for that.
	Like I say, keep the email coming.
	And if you can make a donation, please do.
	The one-stop shop for all of those things and so much more is my website, theunexplained.tv.
	And don't forget, there is also now and has been for all of this year, an official unexplained Facebook page.
	And I'm very proud of that.
	It's growing slowly.
	But thank you very much for being part of that if you are.
	All right.
	Truth Proof 3.
	Paul Sinclair in Yorkshire.
	Let's get to him right now.
	Paul, thank you very much for coming back on my show.
	Thank you very much, Howard.
	It's a pleasure to be here.
	And we'll share a bit of information with the guests tonight.
	As we have been doing, is it for the thick end of three years now, I think, Paul?
	Yeah, that's correct.
	And I've enjoyed it.
	And I think you said, I don't know, it may have been last time we spoke that your show were probably the first one that I'd ever done.
	You did the first interview here, and I thought, this guy's going to go places.
	I was just explaining just a second ago to my listener that I really, you know, when you've been doing this for a few years, you just get a sense about people.
	You know, whether it's my own field, the news, or whether it's doing this show, you just know when somebody's going to go places.
	So I'm really pleased, but I guess that means with this third book out, you're mad busy right now.
	Absolutely.
	I don't know whether it's the cover of the third book, and that sounds a bit vain, but because I am on the cover, but the front cover of the number three, I think it's selling books, but I also believe the content.
	I think the books have just got better.
	Probably a learning curve for me, Howard.
	You know, I mean, I've never written a book before.
	So when I wrote Truth Proof, the truth that leaves no proof, you know, I was obviously compiling all these accounts and putting them together, but I think I've just got a better formula.
	I mean, I'm already on with book three, sorry, book four now, and I'm still chasing hard to get the night people out, which isn't a truth-proof book.
	That's about my own experiences.
	And I think I'm about 70,000 words into that, so that one's going to be close.
	God, you're prolific then.
	That is going to be the word for you prolific, right?
	I have to say that I'm a big fan of the back cover.
	Not because I don't like the picture on the front cover, but I'm quoted on the back cover.
	So I'm going to be biased.
	I think it's the least we could do after all help and encouragement that you've sort of given me over this three-year period.
	Now, look, as we just go through these initial comments, just getting back up to speed with each other, I just don't want to forget mentioning some of the people who've been in touch with me.
	From the second that they knew you were coming on, Paul, this is what happens.
	They say, Let me know when Paul is going to be on.
	When are you going to put that podcast out?
	Can you ask him this?
	I've got a couple of listener questions to ask you.
	And there's also somebody who featured in the book.
	Now, you've changed this person's name, if this is the same person.
	So I'm not going to give his real name now.
	He just says, thanks, Howard.
	If it wasn't for your show, my sons and partners' sighting wouldn't have made it into Truth Proof 3.
	And he says, love the show, keep up the good work.
	Thank you for that.
	I'm thinking this is Stephen, as you call him in the book, his story about a flash of bright light at Bempton Car Park.
	Is that the one?
	It is, yeah.
	And it's quite incredible.
	And you read, I think you read the email out live when we did the show.
	Oh, because it was an astonishing story.
	It even involved, as some of your stories do, military involvement, military trucks.
	Well, the military were around at that time.
	And obviously, there's a little, I'd love to speak to this guy a little bit more, but obviously all at his own pace.
	But just a brief outline of the story, these people, and I haven't got the exact times and dates, someone tells me it was December the 14th, 2017.
	Well, I'm sure it was now, just in top of me, but I can't remember times, but they'd gone for a walk, something they did regularly to the Bempton Cliffs during the evening, and they walked towards Flamborough.
	At some point on the way back, there was a huge flash of light that just turned everything from night to day within a blink, you know, a second at most.
	They commented on it and probably didn't think much more.
	But when they got back to the car, now, as we've called him, Stephen, you'll have to forgive me and Howard because I can't remember, but I think they'd lost an hour and a half of time, which is, you know, I may have got the actual time wrong.
	It might be an hour and a quarter, but clearly something had happened.
	And you could tell from the way that the correspondence and the messages from this guy were coming to me that it had troubled him.
	And it was a genuine.
	Yep, that was the word I was about to use to you.
	It came across to me, as I recall it now, to be an absolutely genuine story.
	I don't want to spoil these Bempton stories, though, because we're going to get into more of those.
	And I just want to mention one other person, if I may, Paul, Joanna.
	Joanna said that she was chilled by the story in the book, which she bought about the eyes in the darkness, which we will also cover in the next hour while we're doing this show.
	But so many people.
	I've got so many messages on my phone as I look at the Facebook page for this show.
	People in anticipation of you coming on here.
	Plus, I've got a couple of questions that I'll work in from listeners as we go through.
	Okay, starting with the beginning of the book, endorsements now you have coming in thick and fast, really.
	People like Whitley Streeber, who I know you know, Peter Robbins, Nick Pope, John Hansen, and even myself.
	I'm in there too.
	And it just goes to show to me, I think, that hard work, which I think is what you stand for, brings its own reward, really.
	You know, you haven't looked for the notoriety.
	You've just wanted to get these stories out here.
	And the important people in this field have found you.
	They have, and I'm sort of thrilled and sort of humbled that they have.
	I mean, Whitley Striber, although I never did a radio show with him years ago, back in 2006, I think it was, he contacted me because I'd been putting bits of footage onto the internet where I'd been filming of these light forms, as we've termed them, the intelligent light forms.
	And they must have interested him and intrigued him.
	And he asked me to speak on Dreamland, which I didn't.
	I didn't feel ready to speak on it.
	But just to stay with Whitley for a moment, I don't know if I mentioned to you last time we spoke, Howard, but he said something quite unusual or surprising.
	He said to me, have I got any connections to Roslyn Chapel?
	And as we were speaking, I said, well, I'm not really certain.
	I don't think so.
	You know, apart from having the name Sinclair.
	Well, a friend of mine who does family trees has recently started doing our family tree.
	And unbelievably, and I contacted Whitley straight away to tell him, not only have I got connections to Roslyn Chapel, my 17th direct line grandfather was William St. Clair, who built Roslyn Chapel.
	That's a story.
	How would Whitley...
	You know, I've had Whitley on this show quite a number.
	How would he know that?
	I have no idea.
	When I messaged him and told him, I said, you were right, he messaged back almost immediately.
	I mean, obviously, you weren't just waiting for my call.
	Just as chance would have it, but he said, I always felt it in my soul.
	His exact words.
	Well, that is just inexplicable, unexplainable, and astonishing.
	And just for listeners, I can't believe that there'll be many of my listeners who don't know, which just explained that Rosslyn Chapel is in Scotland, and it is indeed an historic place where it is claimed there is a portal to another dimension.
	It's quite incredible, Howard.
	I never expected it.
	You know, you look at family trees and you see how they jump to the right, to the left, and it's all distant relatives, but 17th generation direct line back, just blow me away.
	Well, there are those who believe, and I think I might be becoming one of them, that nothing is random in this life, and that this life may be connects to other lives and other existences and other realities that may be going on even now.
	So that, Paul, and neither of us are going to know the answers to this yet, you know, that is something that increasingly people are beginning to think about.
	And maybe in your case, you know, you have connections.
	And as people tell me, maybe I'm doing this work.
	Look, people know my story.
	I'm a, was a general broadcaster guy who did news, won awards for doing news.
	But this is the direction that I've taken, and I'm glad I've taken it.
	So maybe I'm doing that because of some kind of plan that I'm not aware of yet.
	Strange old world, eh, Paul?
	Very strange.
	Let's talk.
	Sorry.
	Sorry.
	No, far away.
	Let's talk about.
	I was going to say, let's talk about the area that we're going to be talking about here.
	Just, again, for people who haven't heard you, the number of times you've been on the radio show and also doing this podcast.
	This is an area in East and North Yorkshire, and I've called it, and you've called it an area of high strangeness.
	It is remarkable, amazing, surprising, and even shocking at times that so many strange events seem to be centered all around this one area.
	And if we give people a picture of it, it's from Scarborough in the north, maybe just a little north of Scarborough, down through Bridlington and Hornsey, and then inland westwards to places like Driffield and Cotton.
	Yeah, I think you're correct, Howard, there.
	I use Bempton as a, if we were to stick a pin in a map and sort of go out, I don't know, 16 or 18 miles out at sea and on land, that's where we're at.
	It's probably a 16 to 18 mile radius.
	But just before we sort of move on to Bempton and the area, the books are moving out because I'm getting so many absolutely fabulous reports from other locations that I can't ignore them, Howard.
	Well, funnily enough, I mean, we can bring this in now, and then we must get to the stuff covered in the book.
	But Chris, who's in Wakefield, which isn't a million miles away from you, that's more, you know, West Yorkshire.
	But he says, loving the podcast and radio show.
	Can you ask Paul, says Chris, and he's a long-term listener of this show, if he's in touch and coordinating with any other researchers on the East Coast, and if they together have come to any conclusions?
	Also, two parts to this question, can you ask him if there's any known activity in York?
	Because I noticed there was, he sent me a photograph of what looked like an indentation or impression in a field.
	Not a crop circle, but something very strange there, which is just off the A64 York Ring Road.
	So, you know, two things he's asking, are you coordinating with other people in your researches?
	Plus, of course, are you spreading your net, as you've just hinted, to other areas of Yorkshire and other areas of the country?
	Definitely, the net is sort of widening, without a doubt.
	As for working with other researchers, there's people equally as good as me that aren't speaking on radio shows and aren't writing books, but they're still as interested, they're still as keen.
	Guys like a guy called Andy Ramsden and Steve Ashbridge and Bob Brown.
	And they all spent time with me.
	I mean, years ago, I don't know whether you ever interviewed Tony Dodd Howard, but I did a little bit of work with Tony Dodd, the retired police detective who wrote Alien Investigator, simply because I'd found more information out about Lightning XS894, which crashed off Bempton and Flamborough.
	I'll not labour on that because I know we've talked about that before.
	So I'm quite happy to talk with anybody.
	And because of the books, what we're getting now almost every weekend are people who are coming up and spending time in the area, hoping to, I don't know, catch a glimpse or experience something of the unexplained phenomena.
	And I'm keen to tell people, although this isn't to put them off, that your chances of actually experiencing something are slim.
	However, you are in an area with a higher probability than other areas.
	There were some guys who came up a few weeks ago, Rick and his friend called PJ, and they Wiltshire that they came from, and they sleep in the cars overnight.
	And they'd had one experience last year, but they've been a few times where they went back to their car just to warm up a bit because it was during the winter, had a drink of tea and what have you.
	And then at some point in between three and four in the morning, they got out of the car, looked down towards the sea, and they told me that they saw lights over the sea.
	In fact, this will be written about in the fourth book.
	He's done drawings and everything, and they've got binoculars on these lights, and they're looking at them and trying to debate what they are because they're off the surface of the water, so it's not a boat.
	But the unusual thing, the quirkiness to this story is it was in between three and four when they were looking at these lights, Howard.
	But suddenly it was six in the morning, and they can't recall how, well, they've no idea how they've stood there for the best part of two to two and a half hours.
	Because we're aware of missing time stories in that area, but that's a big chunk of time, isn't it?
	Massive chunk of time.
	I mean, and these guys, I will be using their real names in the next book because they're allowing me to.
	But the stories are just incredible and the diversity of the phenomena that's presenting.
	I wish I knew whether the location is the key, but I don't know whether there's like a thin area where some other dimension sort of overlaps our own.
	And at times these things can come through because it's not just UFO-related sightings that are seen.
	It's strange cryptids.
	I mean, I don't know how long you want to labor on with this.
	Well, we're going to pick our way through the book, and I promise I'm not going to give away all the good stuff in the book, but we're just going to give a sketch of the entire book.
	But as you say, it is an area of high strangeness.
	There are mutilations of animals and even mutilations of porpoises that we've talked about before.
	A porpoise, we'll talk about that.
	There are strange lights.
	There are strange craft.
	There is bizarre military activity and not just your standard British Army or Air Force, way beyond that.
	So this is a strange area.
	Now, you say on page three of the book, and I'm going to quote you directly, Paul, the information I've gathered leaves me in no doubt that everything seen and experienced is connected.
	And that's the big question, isn't it?
	Just because, Howard, we can't see how it's connected and we don't know what links A to B, B to C, does not mean that it's not.
	I mean, even if it's only connected by the location, it is still connected.
	I don't really think that the big cats that are seen, you know, the Panther sighting that was at Bookton earlier this year, that not myself, numerous people, I think there was five people saw it independently.
	Remember, Bookton, to any listeners who aren't familiar with the area, is only probably a mile and a half from Bempton.
	And this cat had been seen over a week and a half period.
	It made the paper.
	You know, I don't really think that people were making this story up.
	They didn't know each other.
	But I can't see how the big cat is related to the UFO sightings.
	Yet at the same time, the UFOs are presenting.
	So I can only conclude that the location is the key.
	There's got to be something special about these multi-phenomena areas.
	And I'm itching to just tell you about something, and I hope I'm not taking you away from what you want to talk about.
	Let's do it.
	Bring it on.
	I'm just here to steer you.
	Well, when we did the Bempton Phenomena, which was a YouTube documentary last year, I never really responded to the comments on the YouTube.
	Not out of badness, I just don't want to.
	Sometimes there's negative comments, and you're just feeding people, so I don't get involved.
	However, I kept seeing this comment coming up from this guy who said he'd been to Bempton and seen something highly unusual.
	So I messaged him and I've got talking to him.
	I was speaking to him most days.
	Now, this guy, his real name's Rob, and he'll probably listen to this.
	And he's absolutely wrecked by what he saw at Bempton on February the 7th of this year.
	And he was wild camping with another man.
	And now, listeners, you don't have to believe this.
	I tell the stories.
	But how do you touched on the eyes, the glowing yellow eyes in the darkness earlier, which we saw throughout 2017 and into 2018?
	He said that they parked in the RSPB car park and they were wild camping.
	And between three and four in the morning, I mean, that's significant because this time keeps coming up again.
	They were walking along the cliff tops towards Flamborough when they lit a pair of yellow eyes up.
	He looked at, he said to his friend, and I think there were a few expletives and what the hell's that?
	And this thing was unusual.
	And they're used to being in the country and seeing different things.
	And he claims these eyes were as big as golf balls.
	So they carried on walking.
	And he's describing the location.
	He's describing where he's walking.
	The fences to his left.
	So I know where he is.
	He says he came to a bird stand and they lit the eyes up again.
	And then they sort of dipped down these eyes.
	Well, they walked between two big gateposts without a gate on.
	I've got photographs of this.
	We've got this guy on record.
	He's allowed us to, so we can play this.
	Or if you wanted it, send in Howard, I can.
	And he said, as they walked through the gatepost, they put the torch onto something that resembled a hyena.
	He said, they're X3 para.
	I need to stress that as well, these guys.
	They're X army and they're paratroopers, so they're people who are trained to observe.
	He says, I've been in conflict.
	I've seen things and done things that people wouldn't want to do.
	He says, but this was dragged from hell was his exact words.
	He says, it was hunkered down.
	He says, I think it didn't realize there was two of us.
	He said, and it stood up.
	Now, this guy, when you hear him speaking, he's in the moment.
	And he says, it stood up and it was seven foot tall.
	Now, I'm not asking people, oh, believe this because Paul Sinclair's saying it.
	I'm relating a story.
	And what's interesting is where he's come out with this story is very, very close to where all this animal mutilation has been taking place.
	It's very close to where me and Bob Brown were observing the eyes looking at us in the darkness.
	It kind of makes you wonder.
	I mean, I never thought for one second when I wrote the first book that I would ever be writing about cryptids such as the Flickston werewolf.
	But when you've got people who appear sane and unconnected to each other, telling you these things over and over again, and the location is coming up.
	There are even locations where things are told in folklore, which, I mean, a lot of academics would probably frown upon folklore as it's not the written word.
	It predates all that.
	Well, folklore, of course, was the way that people used to record history before we published books to record history.
	Don't knock folklore.
	Not at all.
	Yeah, I totally agree.
	And how incredible that the stories of folklore, the same locations are still throwing up the stories of these incredible things.
	And this guy said it stood up and he claims it was seven foot tall and very thin.
	Seven foot tall and very thin.
	I mean, I'm kind of thinking, but then that's not something we tend to get reported here that much, but we do.
	I'm thinking Bigfoot.
	It's a possibility.
	He said its arms were thin and it had claws on end of hands.
	This backed away.
	He'd got two dogs with him.
	And I mean, this recording's incredible.
	And he says the dogs' tails were on the tummies.
	He says they were absolutely terrified.
	He said, we backed away.
	We didn't stay anymore during the night.
	We just left the area.
	Now, I would be the first person to say that I cannot believe that there's anything living and breathing or breeding that resembles a seven-foot biped in this country.
	So we've got to entertain the idea that there's things from some kind of other sphere of existence that are managing to manifest, for want of another word, around this area, be it temporarily.
	Did they give you much of a sense of how this thing moved?
	No, he said it was hunkered down.
	He said it looked like it's got a huge bump on its back.
	All the fur was bristling.
	He says, and then it stood up.
	And that's...
	We played it at Awakening as well, to be honest, you know, because it's that sort of dramatic.
	This guy's in the moment.
	I'm asking him about his ears and he can't...
	And he just is bypassing what I'm saying because he's just there.
	And he's messaging me quite often and he wouldn't mind me saying it's absolutely he can't get it out of his head.
	Well, listen, let me have the recording and we can take that from there.
	If you don't mind, just give me a bit of it.
	I don't expect you to give me all of it.
	I don't mind at all, Howard.
	Okay, now that's an astonishing story.
	Here you have two trained observers, you know, no better observers than people that were in the British military, seeing something that is completely inexplicable, but they are by no means alone.
	And that's what makes this area rather so weird.
	Let's work our way through the book then.
	Very early in the book, page 15, Triangles and Electronic Weapons.
	This is in 2017.
	Most of the material in the book is, I think I'm right in saying, spans between 2017 and a couple of months ago.
	So it's 2017 through 2019.
	Now, this particular story starts with a call, the first of several from Ian Wilson, who's at Benton, who spies a black triangular object reported below the cliffs At Speaton, doesn't think it could be a kite, doesn't think it could be a drone, and also, a little later, a triangle, very precise description, a triangle of bare earth appears.
	That's correct.
	Well, I think it's Ian Wilson.
	I have to forgive it's the lady who spotted the triangle below the cliffs, walking the dog.
	And I think it's Ian who spotted the triangle of earth in the pea crop walking up Cliff Lane.
	And I've changed his name.
	This guy still lives in Bempton.
	And yeah, he told me about it.
	I met him the next morning at about six o'clock, 6 a.m.
	And I took photographs of the sure enough, this thing's there in the top of the pea crop.
	The following day, I went and gathered a soil sample.
	Much to the amusement of a farmer that had been surprised to see me stood in a field at that hour, but I thought I was going to get caught taking this soil sample, but I didn't.
	But by the way, I didn't just trample crops.
	But it's interesting because further up Cliff Lane, it's not that much further up, and there was a deer carcass found with a three-inch round hole in its side.
	And I think I might have got my dates wrong here, Howard, because I've not got a book in front of me.
	I think it was the 28th of June.
	And what's interesting is when I started working with the farmer who were losing his livestock, the first time that he realized he'd got a major problem on his hands was when he found 30 sheep crammed upside down on the sides and all in such a mess in a sheep run that were designed for six sheep nose to tail.
	As if they'd been dumped there.
	He doesn't know how they'd got in there.
	He's got two dogs.
	He said, he funnels them in, and then there's a gate and you obviously the gates were up during the night as they couldn't get in.
	He said, but it's hell of a job.
	He says, because they're not stupid.
	He says, regardless of what people think, they know that he involves a little bit of discomfort because the solution that they have to walk through to treat the hooves, it must be quite painful for them.
	He said, I have a hell of a job with two dogs getting them to funnel them into this sheep run.
	He said, but I arrived this particular morning.
	It's already in the field.
	He says, and I just couldn't believe my eyes.
	He says, I just couldn't believe what I was looking at.
	He says, because there was 30 sheep.
	I'm not adding to this.
	It wasn't 20 sheep.
	He said, 30 sheep crammed into it on the sides, upside down.
	He said, we unpegged the panels because it's like a thick corrugated panel with pegs.
	He says, and there's four dead.
	Not dead through mutilation, dead through probably fear and eat exhaustion.
	But that, and I stood in this guy's kitchen because I'm getting the dates off him and everything that I can get because I wanted to look into investigate what was killing his livestock without going into the realms of interdimensional portals and things.
	I genuinely wanted to help him.
	And if there was an earthly solution, then I'm good to go with that as well.
	But I said, what date was this?
	And this is where I'm going at the 28th of June.
	And he looked, he said, the 28th of June.
	Well, I got my book in my hand at the side of him.
	And obviously, he might listen to this show.
	So you soon get caught out if you're lying.
	And I flipped through pages and I showed him just so it weren't wrote in afterwards.
	28th of June, dear car, because three-inch round hole inside Cliff Lane.
	Now, I'm not going to give location at Farmaway, but it's quite close.
	And do you think that there is a link between the triangular object, the triangle in the field, and the situation with the sheep?
	I don't know.
	It's difficult because the military vehicles.
	Well, that's something else.
	Was it the next day?
	I've got to get the timeline right on this, but you see a silver pickup truck and a big American motorhome, or maybe they were one in the same thing, very close to Bempton.
	They were on the base.
	There was a big American motorhome on the base.
	And this is the same guy who found the deer carcass.
	Right, and this is the deserted RAF base at Bempton.
	Yes, it is, yeah.
	And he's quite broad Yorkshire, this guy.
	He's not Bempton-born and bred, though.
	He's lived there nearly 30 years.
	And he says, I did what tha told me to do.
	He says, I got my phone.
	He says, and I started to take a picture of this on the base.
	He says, because there's three guys in full white suits, hoods on as well, spread out over the base.
	I know three can't spread out far, but there's three guys.
	In white suits.
	That sounds like they're doing some kind of cleanup.
	Well, this is what he tells me.
	He says, and I went to take pictures.
	He said, and then my phone, he said it just resembled an old TV and all lines came across it.
	And then it's just flipping up and everything's gone off my phone.
	And that's his exact words.
	He said it was just like looking at an old TV screen.
	Everything went sort of hazy.
	But this is the same time when those military trucks were around.
	You know, and the military trucks were parked on Cliff, sorry, on Blake Howe Lane, which is just off Cliff Lane.
	Now, I've got to hold my hands up and say there could be a perfectly rational explanation for why the military trucks were around.
	It could have been some exercise that we're never ever going to be privy to finding out about.
	But it's hell of a coincidence.
	And we've recorded this before, Paul.
	The kinds of vehicles and the kinds of personnel that you've seen are not the standard British experience.
	You know, they're not the kind of things that I've ever seen.
	And I've been all over this country in every time of year.
	Well, they've got German license plates.
	And interestingly, they'd also been seen around Staxton because a reader to a magazine called Air Forces Monthly, which is out on, you know, in major stationery shops up and down country.
	I don't know the month that this one was in, but it snapped a picture of these vehicles as well and were asking people in Air Forces Monthly, the editorial staff, I think, what they thought they were.
	And they weren't sure.
	They were of the opinion that they could have been SAM emulators, surface-to-air missile emulators.
	Whether that's true or not, I don't know.
	You know, I'd got some other friends in the military who came to see me at Outer Limits conference, quite good friends, and they told me that they thought they were electronic weapons.
	But why they were at Bempton, we don't know.
	But all I've got to say is we've no actual proof of what they Were Howard, it's just strange that all this unusual stuff was taking place when we've got the animal mutilations, we've got the spheres of light being seen, we've got the triangular depression in the pea crop.
	I mean, it was quite a distinct triangle.
	Well, no, you've got a picture of it.
	I mean, it is a very clearly defined thing, and it indicates the military personnel, the strange vehicles.
	It can only make you think one of two things, I think, but maybe there are more possibilities that I'm missing.
	And the two things are that the military know about this, or the government, governments know about something that is going on and have come to investigate it and cover it up, or they are the cause of whatever it is.
	And they're either deploying that against something, or it's something that they're using generally to test or try out or whatever, stuff that's way beyond our pay grade.
	Those to me seem to be the two possibilities here.
	Well, it's a possibility.
	Well, yeah, it's one of those two.
	And do you know how?
	Just after Christmas, I was contacted by a guy who claims that he worked for the MOD in the 1980s.
	He's gone on film, albeit we've had to blur his face out.
	He's ex-RAF, but then he was employed by the MOD in the 1980s to look for signs of unexplained phenomena and extraterrestrial life at Bempton.
	We've got him on film.
	We played a part of it at the Awakening Conference.
	And this guy's really interesting.
	And he was told that there was, obviously we've only got his word for this.
	He was told that there was three types of alien beings or entities that were presenting in the area using a portal that appears in that area.
	Have you got any proof that he worked for the people he said he worked for?
	He showed us what we did, we met him on the old road into Scarborough that's now closed very early one morning, me and myself and Bob Brown.
	He asked us if we'd give him our phones and we let him take the phones.
	He was paranoid about being recorded at this time with the initial meeting.
	And he showed us his paperwork that he had been in the RAF.
	He'd got nothing to show us that he'd done the job that he claimed he'd done at Bempton, but we'd seen the paperwork that proved that he was ex-RAF.
	Just an interesting story.
	I mean, we can't, I know, I do realize that we can't throw too much weight at it because we'd need more validation, as in to be able to show the listener or tell the listener or show anyone reading that this guy has got the credentials.
	But the story is interesting nevertheless.
	It is, and it ties into all that you're doing.
	And I'm going to leap forward in the book a bit now, and then we'll go back after this because you mentioned Bob Brown.
	I think you need to introduce Bob Brown.
	Tell us what he is, because Bob Brown himself had a hair-raising experience that you can only read as him being warned off by real-life men in black or something.
	That's true, yes.
	Around the time that we were...
	I think we've got to give a little bit of background to Bob Brown because Bob Brown is your friend, but he's also connected with all of this.
	We're off to see Andrew Collins after we've spoken today, and Bob will probably accompany me.
	He's a lovely guy.
	He's as enthusiastic as I am.
	I don't think he'd mind anyone knowing he's 72 years old.
	So you can see he's still as keen.
	I love his enthusiasm.
	And he runs a radio show called Beacon of Light Radio.
	And he's just an avid supporter of the subject and of the unexplained.
	And he's got his feet firmly placed on the ground.
	He doesn't think every satellite flying across the sky is some kind of spaceship.
	You know, he's pretty level-headed.
	It was Bob who was with me the night that we saw the spheres of light under the sea.
	A triangle of lights that we saw under the sea off Bempton.
	I can't remember the exact date.
	I've got it here.
	Page 37, subsurface UFOs near Bempton Cliffs.
	Was that the 28th again?
	I think everything seemed to happen on the 2th.
	I'm not certain, to be honest.
	There's a lot of stuff happening all around the same time.
	But the story about Bob Brown, though, is for some reason he had visitors.
	And he describes a man who looked like the shadow of Zorro and a dark car that was involved in all of this.
	And then there was a stranger or a couple of strangers who said, you've seen something that you shouldn't have seen.
	And what you saw now sees you.
	That's correct.
	He absolutely terrified him.
	And he's always happy.
	He's a very, very positive kind of guy.
	I mean, anybody who works in a charity shop five days a week, you know, kind of character that this man is.
	And that's what Bob does.
	And it was house sitting for somebody and looking after the dog and house sitting them on Cardigan Road, quite affluent part of Bridlington, near the golf course, on the way out towards Hull.
	And he claims that there's a big private garden, so there's no curtains up, but there's a little conservatory at the back.
	And during the night, he saw the dog look up.
	And he sort of, in the darkness of the TV, just looked.
	And he said, there's an outline stood at the window looking at him.
	It sort of reminded him of Zorrow.
	That's Bob's exact words.
	And he told me about this.
	And he said, there's another strange thing as well.
	He says, when I'm walking to work in a morning, he says, there's a black car keeps passing me.
	Big black car.
	He says, it's really strange.
	He says, because it's unusual.
	He said, and I've seen it walking back from work, and I've seen it walking to work.
	And listeners, you'll have to forgive me because I don't have the exact dates on me for this, but I know it was the week of the World Dance Championships, which were held in Bridlington in 2017.
	It was, yes.
	That's usually autumn, isn't it?
	I'm not sure about it.
	It's usually October-ish, I think.
	So I get a phone call from Bob, which is unusual.
	You know, he normally just likes the internet.
	And he says, can I speak to you in the morning?
	Can you come into the shop?
	And I asked him, what were the matter?
	He says, no, he says, I want to speak to you.
	So normally as you walk into the shop, he's very jolly, very happy, and it's hello.
	But his head's down.
	I know he's seeing me, but his head's down.
	And there's a few people in his serving him.
	And I'm okay.
	He says, in a minute, in a minute.
	So he waited till these people had been served and it's quite empty.
	And he said, I got a visit last night.
	I said, what do you mean?
	He says, it's really scared me.
	I said, go on, you know, Sutter, tell me about this, though.
	What you've got at the front of the house is frosted glass doors and then a small two-foot porch on the outside with frosted glass doors.
	He said, and I don't recall the times off the top of my head, but he said there was the doorbell rang and the dog went crazy, as he always does.
	And he put the dog outside and went to the front.
	He says, and I could see the two tall, dark outlines, figures outside.
	He says, and it's daylight.
	He said, and I thought, oh, I thought it was police, actually.
	I think that's what he said.
	He said, and I opened the door.
	He says, I got shock of my life.
	He says, there's two palest-faced people you've ever seen in your life.
	Very tall.
	Everybody looks tall to Bob, by the way, because he's very short.
	He says, and they're sort of, he says, can I help you?
	And I think they said something like, can we speak to you?
	You've seen something you shouldn't have seen.
	He says, and I opened the door and they were repeating these kind of words to me.
	He said, and he thinks their eyes were black.
	Although he's not certain about that.
	He doesn't recall seeing eyebrows.
	Just this pale face with suits on and hats on.
	I mean, the sketch in the book that you've got of these people, I'm calling them people, they could almost have been greys, grey aliens.
	Yeah, absolutely.
	Or some kind of, I mean, we don't want to be going too far out there, but some kind of hybrid.
	Yeah, he thought he'd been visited by what people termed the men in black.
	But who can say?
	He said, in the end, he says, I became very frightened and I shut the door.
	He says, now I ran upstairs because they're at the front of the house.
	I wanted to see where they'd gone.
	He says, but when I got upstairs and looked out of the window, they'd gone.
	But the odd thing here is it was night.
	It was daylight when he answered the door.
	He only spoke to them briefly and it was night time.
	Now, this really shook Bob.
	So he thinks that they'd messed with time.
	Something's happened with time.
	He's a very punctual kind of guy.
	He got up late.
	And when he got up, all the power was off in the property.
	He had to mess about on the cellar steps trying to get the power to come back on.
	And the consumer unit, I don't know if the listeners will be familiar with this.
	He says all the switches were up and correct.
	Should have been working.
	He says he put them all down, flicked them up again.
	I think he did it several times and then everything came on.
	Which, as we know, anyone listening to this, electrical-minded, it's an impossibility.
	But this is what he says happened.
	You know, we've got to look at the impossible when we're looking at these crazy stories.
	I would have thought the person they'd want to be warning off is you.
	Very true.
	But I never perceived anything.
	I didn't see these men.
	I can only relate Bob's story.
	And did Bob ever know, I should be asking Bob this, really, but did he ever know what it was that he'd seen, of the many things that he'd seen with you, that they said he wasn't supposed to have seen?
	Well, interestingly enough, I thought it was because he'd seen the lights under the sea.
	But he did tell me that he'd been, because he used to take the dog down onto the beach on a morning before he went to work.
	And he saw a sphere of light out over the sea in daylight, and he was trying to take photographs of it.
	He had told me this, and he told the lady at the charity shop, and he just couldn't get it on a picture of it.
	Bob actually does not believe that it's because of the lights under the sea.
	I think Bob believes he shouldn't have been looking at this sphere of light over the sea.
	I guess we'll never know, Howard.
	It's an astonishing story, though.
	And look, I am not going to disbelieve him.
	I haven't told this story for a little while, and I don't even know whether I've ever told you it.
	You have.
	This is the one where, well, let's just remind the listener very quickly that it was when I was doing the original radio show on Talk Sport, and we'd been speaking with Paul Hellier, the former Defense Minister of Canada, who says that there's probably more out there than we are being made aware of.
	And so we were feeling quite pleased with ourselves, my producer Dave and I. And we come out of the building, it's midnight, and opposite the Talk Sport building, where there are no people during the week, you know, it's London and it's deserted at the weekend, there was a black limousine with two guys in black suits who looked like the Blues brothers in the front seat, and they had a camera on the dashboard that was following us down the street.
	Now, you know, you tell me that men in black, agencies who do this kind of thing don't exist, and I'll tell you, what about those guys?
	So I think these things go on, Paul.
	there's no accounting for it, Howard, is that?
	I mean, you've obviously, somebody was obviously interested in enough to, Do you think it were meant to, I don't know, keep you quiet or refrain you from asking questions to prominent people like Paul Hellier in the future?
	Well, it was a very strange thing.
	The show at that time, not very long after that, came to an end, very abruptly.
	And I was replaced ultimately.
	Now I'm back on the sister station.
	You know, all those years later, I was invited back after having done it as a podcast after that for 10 years.
	But they invited me back in the end.
	But the show came to an end quite abruptly.
	I think about four weeks after that, maybe just a little bit longer than that.
	And I was replaced by a politician called George Galloway on the radio.
	And, you know, I thought no more about it.
	I was going to stop doing the unexplained.
	And this is 2006 we're talking about.
	And listeners started emailing me saying, don't let your show die.
	Turn it into a podcast.
	So that's what I did.
	But I always think that there may have been more than that to that rather than met the eye, that those guys were outside the radio station when you never see anybody.
	And they were the weirdest people in a Jaguar car, black.
	I'll see that image in my head until I die.
	And I will be baffled about what it was.
	So look, we say this isn't about me.
	It's about you and your book.
	But these things go on, I think.
	It's quite amazing.
	And what you're doing now, Howard, and what I've heard other people doing and myself is where you're talking about something.
	And it's incredible that you might have revived something and another strange experience might happen.
	Because I know that when I've spoken to people about the subject of the unexplained and people who've been complete disbelievers or never had an experience, and it's not happened every time or regularly, but times people have come forward and gone, you'll never believe it.
	I've talked to an ex-fireman who works on Bridlington Council, Part-time fireman, should I say, who works for Bridlington Council, and he went to some kind of meeting in York, and he came back early morning so he could get back to work.
	We'd been talking about UFOs only a week previous, and he'd never seen anything.
	He said he stopped at Garten on the Wolds to observe this huge sphere that looked as big as the moon just slowly traveling along the trees.
	I think I've wrote about it in Truth Proof 1.
	I maybe used his first name, his real name, but I won't say it just in case I didn't.
	But yeah, it's just amazing.
	And I'm interested in the fear at the moment.
	That's what's interesting me.
	The feelings of fear that people are perceiving even before an event occurs.
	And I've got quite a few reports in for book four, and I'm sorry for jumping because I know you want to stay where people have had an overwhelming sense of fear before anything's actually happened.
	And I'm just, I don't know whether, I don't know whether it's the phenomena that engenders that or whether it's kind of a premonition.
	A premonition or some kind of sense that we're not aware of within us as human beings to something that's, I don't know, almost animal-like.
	So we're sensing all of this on a kind of primeval level.
	I think that makes sense.
	Yeah, I mean, the fear factor is incredible.
	A guy from Flixton, a farmer from Flixton, who I'm so grateful that this guy David has got in touch with me.
	And he recalls coming home in 2004 from a night out in Scarborough, and he makes a point of saying not drinking.
	He said because he'd got to get up for his father's farm at the time for milking cows at 4 a.m.
	He says, and it's 1 a.m.
	He said, and he'd just left the Spittle Corner roundabout and he's travelling.
	There's a row of bungalows on the left.
	And then as you leave the bungalows, there's the Flickston cars, the area of wetland.
	And once again, I'm using a same description.
	He says it looked like a full moon just above the cars.
	It was huge white sphere.
	He says he observed it for about 10 seconds before he entered the village and got to the farm.
	He said, but then suddenly, fear overcame him, this wave of absolute terror, as though he shouldn't have seen it.
	He said, and I got out of the car, opened the front door of the farmhouse, and forgot all about it and went to bed.
	And I only remembered it the next day and the fear.
	So there's something influencing us.
	Obviously, some intelligence behind this.
	And it just keeps repeating time and time again in different accounts.
	And the perceived fear.
	There's a guy who were camping in, I think it's Pynchenthorpe Forest in Guisborough or Guysborough.
	I may have pronounced that wrong with this person.
	I've never been sure.
	I used to watch Yorkshire television and I was never sure whether it was Guysborough or Gisborough.
	Yeah, we'll call it Guysborough then.
	He was wild camping with his two children.
	I only spoke to this guy a few days ago.
	I mean, I've known about the account for probably six months because we've been speaking, but he's got the most amazing story.
	He said it was sludgy outside.
	He says we took our shoes and socks off to get inside the tent.
	He said, and about 10 o'clock at night, I suddenly felt very, very frightened and uneasy.
	He says, and I don't know why.
	He said, and then I heard a twig snap outside.
	He says, and then this tent zip started to come down.
	He said, I'd got a little craft knife in my sleeping bag and a torch.
	He says, and I started to undo my sleeping bag.
	He said, and then this hand came through.
	Oh, God.
	Yeah, this guy, I not mind because he's going to let me use his name.
	I love it when people let me use the first names or the real name.
	It's straight out of a low-budget horror film, isn't it?
	Yeah, he said his children named it.
	This is the amazing thing about the story.
	He says this hand came through and then this creature that looked like a skinny chewbacker.
	He says, and it grabbed hold of his child.
	He said, it looked and saw him looking at him and touched him on the forehead and he blacked out.
	How sure can you be that this is a true story, by the way?
	Well, I can't, but I'll just briefly finish it.
	He said, then he said, I've got memories of being carried by these things across fields to a UFO.
	I totally agree here.
	People could be spinning a yarn.
	So then, he said, the next day I wake up in the tent and there's all leaves and sludge inside the tent.
	He says, but my two children wake up and say, we had a dream last night that we were taken out of the tent by skinny chewbackers.
	So the children have backed, if it was a dream, it's been a shared dream.
	And I don't think dreams are infectious or contagious.
	So something imprinted that memory on the kids who'd been sleeping during that.
	Now, if that guy's not making it up, that's an astonishing story.
	And you've got to put that in the fourth book, are you?
	That will be in the fourth book, however.
	God.
	Okay, listen, before we go on with the third book, I've got a question from Craig Bryant, who's a regular listener of the show, friend of the show.
	Craig says, and I'm going to try and keep this slightly long question a bit shorter, but can you ask Paul if he believes the UFO sightings over the northeast coast, as he calls it, are connected with those further down around Suffolk and Norfolk, Rendlesham Forest, those sorts of areas.
	Are they centered around military installations?
	Does he think the phenomenon is linked to wider sightings?
	And then he talks about in West Yorkshire, Hebden Bridge, place I know well, and further west across Caton Moor and my neck of the woods over Pendle Hill and Rosendale.
	Suffolk and Norfolk in particular have a number of abandoned military research facilities.
	There are active radar stations in North Norfolk and the Wash and Blubber houses in West Yorkshire.
	I think in the books you've partly answered that anyway, that these things do seem to have some kind of connection with, for example, the disused base at Bempton and other military installations there.
	But I think Craig's main point is this about whether you think these things are connected with sightings perhaps a little further afield, like Suffolk and Norfolk.
	I do.
	I think it's all ultimately connected.
	I don't think that particularly Bempton or Speaton and the surrounding areas are any more special.
	These areas, we'll call them the areas of ice strangeness, are probably all over the country.
	I'm just sort of fortunate that I've got a lot of time to devote to searching.
	There's probably places just as active where people aren't looking.
	And I think it's connected all over the world.
	I wish researchers actively looking in these areas could get together or form some kind of database because it might even be possible to predict when things are happening in the future.
	So in answer to that question, yeah, I think it's all connected.
	I just wish I knew how.
	Well, hopefully as the books go on and the research goes on, you're going to get a bit closer to that.
	But it's good that you're documenting it anyway.
	And before people run away with the idea that it's only certain people and maybe visitors or, you know, people who are camping in the area, stuff like that, who experience these things, you are getting calls from ordinary people who live there, people who know what to expect.
	For example, page 41, you talk about a phone call from a woman called Susan in Flamborough who saw odd balls of light, something that many people, including yourself, have experienced.
	That's correct.
	And as you say, there's lots of residents to Flamborough and Bempton, Speaton, Bookton, up around Scarborough and further down the coast have all seen these and they've got no interest whatsoever in unexplained phenomena other than a mild observation when these things are seen.
	It's come up on Facebook a few times that people have seen odd things and strange things or people have made comment to something that I've done.
	I don't know, some kind of radio podcast and they've put it on and you get all the usual armchair critics who are piling all the abuse on, saying it's all a load of rubbish.
	You don't know the definitive answer and neither do they.
	But yeah, that's correct.
	But in amongst it, Howard, you get little gems of information where people say, actually, this guy's onto something.
	I saw this.
	I saw that.
	And that's a good way of connecting with these people because I said I don't think anybody's any more gifted or special than any other individual.
	And perhaps when you have been witnessed to something like this, all it does is just open your mind up a little bit more to the possibility that it's real.
	It maybe puts you on a different frequency, a different vibration.
	I don't know what the words are because I think I've said it before, Howard, that we're trying to name things that aren't even recognized as existing.
	But they're happening regularly.
	They're being seen by people who live in the area.
	For example, Christmas Day 2018, not that long ago, pulsing lights over a field.
	And the person who saw it, Ian Wilson in the book, is absolutely certain this wasn't a drone or anything like that.
	It was freezing hard that morning.
	And as everybody would know, at that time, it's absolutely black.
	And there's no street lighting up around that area.
	It was close to the pig farm along Cliff Lane.
	And this thing frightened him.
	He went back.
	He said it was moving like a printer, if that makes sense.
	It's zipping backwards and forwards.
	Yeah, and obviously we're going to get people saying, well, that's how a drone would move.
	But this thing was big.
	And I think it were three balls of light.
	Incidentally, it was very close to where the triangle of light was seen.
	Sorry, the triangle impression was seen in the pea crop in 2017.
	And we never touched on the fact that the military vehicles, and I'm just jumping here, Howard, I'm sorry, but the military vehicles were only 500 yards away from where that triangle impression was in the pea crop on Blake Lane.
	So everything were quite close and localized.
	Sorry, Howard, I've just rambled a bit there.
	No, no, that's fine.
	But, you know, we're saying, weren't we, that these things happen to people who live there, not just people who are visiting there and might be impressionable or get things wrong.
	People who live there and know what to expect see these things.
	And they happen at times like six o'clock on Christmas Day, 2018.
	You've got a section in the book called Terror, as in, that's not terror as in land, terror as in fear.
	Terror firmer.
	And you talk about your encounter with a man in a high-viz jacket trying to convince you that the mutilations that were happening were being done by badgers.
	That was a very strange bit of the book.
	Yeah, that would probably, excuse my sarcasm, anybody reading it, but I found him very annoying because that comes across in the book.
	I'd been visiting this area 4 o'clock, 4.30 in the morning regularly, and I'd been going on an evening.
	So obviously I were on private land, but I'd got permission to be on private land.
	And this car pulls up.
	I think there were three Alsatians.
	One were a big mongrel type thing, but as big as an Alsatian.
	And there were two guys, tall, one and this guy in a high-viz jacket.
	And I've got my little dog, and anybody who knows me, you know my dog's like, it's about as fearsome as a rabbit.
	So he's in the car.
	And obviously, this first thing this guy says to me is, don't let dogs jump up at your car door.
	Well, I thought that your dogs, there's one stood in front of the car, so I can't drive off.
	So I've got my window half down, and he sort of went, have you been for a little walk?
	Was he a car park attendant?
	if he sounds like that.
	No, no, no, nothing like that.
	No, no, I think the IF is some kind of building trade worker, I think, or something.
	I'm a joiner myself, so I'm not dissing them either.
	But he appeared to have a strange knowledge of what you were up to.
	Oh, yeah.
	He just did not want me.
	I don't think they want me in the area.
	I'm probably not the most popular guy in the area with some of the farmers because the very, And if they see anything or if anything happens, they don't share it lightly.
	It's a little bit like mining communities and the trawlermen.
	And they take a bit of getting to know and a bit of understanding.
	And basically, I'm an outsider.
	So he might just have been trying to get you away from that area.
	But you talked about people, professional people in the area, who are well aware of these things.
	And you talk about your visit to the lifeboat station and people who crew lifeboats, especially in that area where conditions are harsh.
	You've got to be a tough kind of person.
	None of them, you say in the book, were at all surprised by the phenomenon that you talk about.
	Not at all.
	At times, they'd all seen what I've termed the light forms.
	They don't know what they are.
	And when they've allowed me to look through lifeboat logs, which is very kind of them, and I've sat there for hours in lifeboat station looking through them, log after log, you know, we'll call it 1979, 1984, you're going through these logs.
	Every log has got reports of callouts to these unexplained lights.
	Now, I'm not so green, listeners, that I think every unexplained light is some kind of unexplained phenomena.
	There'd be an explanation for a lot of it.
	However, when you've got nine-hour call-outs involving multiple lifeboats from Filey, Hornsey, Bridlington, Scarborough, all searching for a boat in distress or some kind of aircraft disaster, and then they turn back because there's nothing to be found, and then the lifeboat logs, the parting comments go, false alarm with good intent.
	To me, and this isn't a dig at the lifeboat guys, they're absolutely fabulous, they do a brilliant job, but to me, we need more research on this because it's clear that something, it was a costly exercise, and something must have been proof enough.
	Yeah, something must have been real enough to get these guys out there.
	And in many instances, the helicopters are up looking for these things as well.
	So, to write it off as a false alarm with good intent, to me, is not worth it.
	I suppose they've got to put something in the log, but how do they explain it to themselves?
	I don't know.
	It's difficult because I think they just let it go.
	I spoke to a retired Coast Guard from Flamborough off the record, and he's talking about the light forms, or I was to them.
	And he said, It's very strange, you know.
	He said, We've had glasses on these lights when they've been reported, and we've looked from the lookout at Flamborough, and we've seen them.
	And I think I've said this on a previous show, you know, because you've got probably 22 miles to the horizon.
	He says, the unusual thing is we can't tell whether these objects, these lights, are two miles out or 22 miles out.
	He says, because they're not emitting light.
	Even though they're vivid and vibrant, they're not lighting up the sky around them like a flare would do.
	Or if you saw a light on the surface of the water on a trawler, you can sometimes see the outlines of the men working and things happening.
	So they're like a pinpricking, or they're like a light, you know, those shows they do for kids where it's all dark, and you will see individual points of light appear.
	Yeah, but bear in mind, Howard, they're not pinpricks, these.
	These things are like tangerines.
	I'll briefly give you an example.
	Earlier this year for the documentary Bringing Down the Light, we interviewed a rock angler.
	He's gone on film, not covered his name up or anything.
	He claimed he'd seen a spaceship, his exact words, land on the fields at the back of him during a fishing match.
	And a lot of other fishermen saw it as well.
	There's another one backed his words up who did a runner and left his fishing tackle on the cliff tops.
	This isn't my point.
	That's another story.
	I asked him if he'd seen the orange spheres of light.
	And he said, I've fished the cliff tops for 49 years and it'll be 50 years this year.
	He said, I haven't seen them.
	Well, we put the cameras away.
	It was nighttime.
	It was February the 25th.
	And I only know that because Bob Brown kept it in a diary and we spoke about it the other day.
	And we put the, because Bob was with me, we put the camcorder away, packed everything away after we'd filmed him.
	And literally, and the fisherman were there as my witness, and Bob Brownie, if you ever get to speak to Bob, two spheres of light as big as tangerines, orange, fibrant orange, lit up above us, and then another one to the left.
	And I saw them first.
	I says, Leah, look at that.
	This guy's jaw dropped.
	So I can't believe it.
	I got the camera out, they switched off.
	We stood there for 10 minutes, nothing happened.
	We walked half a mile down the cliff towards the car park.
	They came on again.
	They didn't fly from anywhere, Howard.
	These things just lit up.
	Got the camera out, same procedure, they switched off.
	We got to the bottom of the area where we'd walk up to the car park, and it happened again.
	And I left the camera in the bag and we walked home.
	Now, to me, that's almost like the phenomena acknowledging you, if that doesn't sound too crazy.
	There were three of us saw that, the rock angler and Bob Brown.
	And what's frustrating, Howard, is that if we'd have been not even 10 minutes later when I had the cameras on and we'd have had those lights during the interview, just crazy.
	So that indicates that whatever it is or was knew about you.
	Page 133 of the book, just moving on a bit here, because there's so much to cover, and that's why it's such a good book, The Story of the UFO, and we've heard about these things in other places, but not here, that the observer, a man you call Andrew in the book, says was the size of a battleship.
	That's incredible, isn't it?
	Yeah, absolutely incredible.
	Once again, I was with Bob Brown and we were entering the cliff tops when the birdwatchers are just coming home.
	It was sort of evening time and they've got these two great big telephoto lenses on and as we're walking down the path from the visitor center, which is closed at that time, we said the customary hellos to this guy and they said hello back sort of thing.
	And then he says, are you the UFO guy?
	And obviously I said yes.
	And he said, his friend spoke.
	He said we'd spoken before, but I can't recall speaking to him.
	But as I said, there's no conspiracy there.
	And it's just a lot of people end up on the cliff tops talking to us.
	So he said he's got a UFO story to tell us.
	And it went back to 1998.
	And he said he'd taken his daughter to the amusement arcades in Scarborough to spend a bit of money on the slots.
	And he says, and after that, he said, I would take her, and she would have a glass of pop and some crisps.
	He says, and I would sit and have a beer and we'd sit looking out to sea.
	And we could see Speaton and Bempton Cliffs in the distance.
	So we're looking at a good distance away.
	He said, but incredibly, he says, this light seemed to emerge from the cliff.
	He says, and then another one.
	He says, until there's five evenly placed out over the sea and a red light on top.
	He believed it was all one object, which I couldn't get a size off him initially when we were talking, but I asked him how he got to that conclusion.
	And he said, because once or twice it moved out in sort of a semicircle, all as one, and nothing moved out of sync and back to the same object.
	And he talked about it having lights around it or portholes or Whatever they were, that were equally, very large and equally spaced.
	Very large and equally spaced.
	I mean, I said, I threw everything I could think of at him, Howard.
	I said, Are you sure it weren't boats coming round from Bridlington Harbour to go fishing on the tide?
	And he said, No, this thing was off the water.
	And he could see the cliffs behind it.
	So it was in, you know, because obviously they're not just straight, they sort of dip in and out.
	So I said, How big?
	Well, where we were stood at the bottom of the path, he looked up to the visitor centre and he said, easily from here to the visitor centre.
	Well, I thought, good God, that's a long way.
	He said, but not only that, it would have gone out over the sea behind us.
	So we let him walk into the distance and I said to Bob, I said, just wait there.
	And I paced it out.
	And I think it was 413 paces.
	You'll have to forgive me if you've read the book and it says 17.
	I'm torn between 13 and 17 here because I've not got it in front of me.
	But it equates to well over 1,000 foot.
	And so that was quite incredible.
	And he said these lights just, there was another witness, a guy was sat at a table close to them and he saw it as well.
	These lights seem to just sink back into the cliff face.
	I'd like to point out here, I don't believe that there's an opening in the cliffs at Bempton or Speaton that's allowing UFOs to travel in and out.
	But what the mechanics of it is, I don't know.
	The guy sounded very sincere.
	He'd got the story to tell.
	He was quite genuine.
	I don't think I'm wrong here.
	He said to me, can you remember the hotel that slipped into the sea, Howard?
	Yes.
	I remember seeing that on TV.
	Made national news.
	Yeah, I remember all about it.
	He said that was his.
	Right.
	Yeah.
	I've seen that guy interviewed on TV, so there is a credible witness there.
	But I think this is the biggest thing reported in any of your books, isn't it?
	Yeah, I've never heard of anything that big.
	And I realized the distance involved from where they were observing.
	We couldn't 100% say, oh, yeah, it was 1,000 foot long.
	But this guy, we've also got to appreciate that he was the key witness.
	He'd got the visual on it, not me.
	Was it making a noise?
	They never heard anything.
	Well, that's quite common, isn't it?
	Yeah, but they were inside observing through glass-fronted buildings.
	It might have been humming or doing anything.
	Yeah, yeah, but just incredible.
	And there doesn't seem to be any limit to the amount of diverse phenomena that's seen.
	It's just mind-blowing.
	And that's why I'm saying I think everything's connected, but I think location is the hub of it all.
	I think that we've got something here that's allowing other things to come through rather than the big cats being related to the UFOs or vice versa, you know.
	In the first books, Paul, you talked a lot about missing people and unexplained deaths, and there is one of those in this book, page 97.
	This is a body, 59-year-old man, local man from Bridlington.
	It later transpired he was.
	And his body was found near but not at Selwick Cove in a sea cave two nights after light forms had been seen off Flamborough Head.
	What's that story all about, as far as you know?
	Well, once again, myself and Bob, Bob seems to feature in a lot of these, we'd managed to film these lights that particular night.
	I think we filmed them, and for listeners that think they were fireworks, remember we're over at North Sea, it was November the 5th, and you might be able to correct me if I'm wrong there, I would.
	And I think this guy was found on November the 7th.
	But I'm not saying the lights are responsible for the man, but we've got to point out that we're in an area of ice strangeness where strange things are being seen.
	And this death is quite, to me, is quite unusual because there's been nothing in the newspapers since initially reporting this unfortunate man had been found on the 7th of November.
	2017, I've got it here, page 97.
	2017.
	And there must have been an inquest.
	Can you remember what the verdict of the inquest was?
	Was it accidental death, misadventure?
	Nothing.
	I've not heard a thing.
	I don't know where to go with it next.
	I don't know whether to put a freedom information request in, just to find out what the verdict of the inquest was.
	It would be interesting to know because here you've got somebody who knows the terrain.
	It's not like it's a tourist who's idly wandered into a place that's caused him to have an issue or an accident.
	This is somebody who knows the area, it seems.
	You would think so.
	I think he'd lived in the area for, well, about 11 years, I'm pretty sure.
	But the actual sea curve is quite inaccessible.
	And you'd have to enter the golf course and go through very, very thick gauze.
	If you were to, we've got to say, if you were to jump or if you were to fall, it's very inaccessible.
	You could get cut off by tide, so hypothermia would be a possibility.
	And did he have the signs of somebody who jumped or fallen from the cliff?
	Well, I have heard from a reporter, I'll not name him, a Bridlington newspaper, that there was no signs of jumping, shall we say, or suicide.
	Right.
	Okay, well, obviously that's, you know, we don't have that for absolute definite, but that's one reason, isn't it, for maybe for you to do a freedom of information.
	Yeah, I think, you know, usually when these unfortunate men or women have lost their lives and if the bodies have been recovered, sorry to sound macabre, but, you know, I don't know, six months later, a year later, you will get a short article in the newspaper.
	There's usually an inquest and there's usually some kind of report about that.
	But look, it's an awful tragedy.
	And of course, if the man had family, which presumably he did in Bridlington, then my heart goes out to them.
	And I would echo those words as well, Howard.
	But I've looked every week.
	I've got police officers who I know and I've spoke about it as close as last week.
	And nobody seems to know.
	Every professional body was there when the unfortunate man was found.
	He was found by a group of geography students, I think, from Dundee.
	And yeah, I can't get nowhere with it.
	It doesn't mean, obviously, listeners, it doesn't mean that there's some kind of outer this world experience attached to this, but I do find it quite unusual.
	Yeah, but these things tend to be reported, but we have to underline that it's a very sad thing and it's a tragedy for the people connected with this man, and of course, the poor man himself who perished somehow there.
	Okay, just in the last couple of minutes then, mutilations.
	Where are we at?
	Now, the book includes photographs of many mutilated animals, sheep, deer, all surgically, it seems, or clinically pulled apart in remote places, and also the pictures of a porpoise.
	There's at least one porpoise there that appears to have been somehow dissected.
	Now, how is it possible for you to do that kind of dissection?
	I wonder, and you've got to see the photograph to understand this, but to dissect its jaw in a very clinical way.
	But the poor creature is at sea.
	That's correct.
	So if it is one kind, we'll call it a predator.
	Is it land-based, airborne, and marine-based?
	It's quite an incredible, diverse lot of animals and mammals that this thing's preying on.
	And it's always the throat area.
	I don't know whether you've noticed that, Howard.
	You know, it's evident in itself.
	As regards where we're at with the mutilations, the animals have gone, Howard.
	There'll not be any, well, unless more livestock's put onto that area, there'll be no more for a considerable time.
	I don't know whether it's because they've had enough, but they've been removed.
	Let's put it that way.
	And no sign of whatever is doing this moving on to anywhere else, as far as you know.
	Moving on to something else, which is quite interesting, because now I'm finding where I didn't know if we'd touch on this, I've not planned on, but the seabirds, the puffins and the razorbills, which I think as anybody would know, are birds of the cliffs and the ocean.
	They're not woodland birds, but I'm finding them in those woods very close to where the animals were being killed, in the woods, with the heads removed.
	And in the same bloodless and surgical way.
	Well, yeah, that's the blood.
	When we're dealing with 70 and 80 kilo carcasses of ewes, you know, sheep, and roe deer, fully grown roe deer, and there's no blood, there's no staining on the ground, it makes you wonder what kind of phenomena, what kind of predator is capable of doing this.
	And without sounding too macabre listeners, in a lot of instances, the eyes had been removed from these sheep.
	Well, everybody knows that a sheep is basically white, be it a dirty white.
	But to remove an eye, if we just labor on that for one moment, without having one speck of blood splatter anywhere on the fur, to me sounds quite incredible.
	As we've said before, it's like a surgical professional has done this.
	Yeah.
	Or somebody, you know, something or somebody with tools and abilities.
	But then we have to add into this a factor that we've talked about before.
	These things often happen in remote areas.
	So if somebody's going there armed with a complete kit of tools to do this, somebody would see them approaching and somebody would see them going away.
	And how do you operate that kind of thing in remote areas?
	And how do you do that at sea?
	I think these are all mysteries that are going to be ongoing, Paul.
	Last question for you.
	You know, this has consumed a large part of your life for years now.
	You know, what is your life like now?
	Well, it's very busy.
	Probably busier than I want it to be, but I've sort of craved people sending me the reports because obviously my own life experiences have put me on this path.
	But it's hard to devote enough time to my girls.
	I've got four girls, all grown up, and my wife, but I've got to do that.
	But after this conversation, Howard, I'm off onto the cliff tops to meet Andrew Collins, who's come and he's got an American lady, a documentary filmmaker, and we're going to do some work up there.
	So it's ongoing.
	It's pretty ectic, to be honest with you.
	And it's probably thanks to people like yourself, Howard, for encouraging me and being very positive that I'm still as focused and I intend to be for a long time.
	Well, I think you have all the hallmarks of a great researcher.
	You know, you're tenacious, you do the primary research, you go back.
	You know, there are three important things there that any good journalist, you know, would have those abilities.
	Not all do.
	And you do.
	But the hardest thing of all, and I know this from, you know, periods of my own life, is you can actually get sucked into it so far that you start edging out your own life.
	So it's working that balance, isn't it?
	That's the hard thing.
	It is, yeah.
	That is difficult because I find myself, I'm up at, if I go to bed at one o'clock, I'm up at five and I'm writing or I'll go somewhere.
	And it never stops.
	And I've got to devote enough time, obviously, to my wife.
	She's very supportive.
	And the girls.
	And my girls, yeah.
	But it's got to be done.
	And you've just got to find that happy medium.
	And hopefully, like you've just said, Howard, you don't devote the bulk of your time to this subject.
	I am lucky that I'm not working in my nine-to-five job like I'd done for many, many years.
	And so the bulk of my time is spent doing the research.
	But I do have time to spend with my family.
	I suppose if I'd got a day job and I were trying to do this, then it would be a lot harder to get the balance out.
	It would be a lot harder, yeah.
	Okay, very, very, very last question.
	When's Truth Proof 4 out then?
	As far as you know.
	Truth Proof 4 will be out, probably won't be out this year because I will have the night people out this year.
	And that is, I think that's going to be truly scary.
	And I'm not just saying it.
	That's a book about the reason probably why I'm so involved in this subject.
	And that'll be about my own experiences and the experiences of my family, my grandchildren, my girls.
	Well, we're going to have to talk about that.
	We are definitely going to have to talk about that.
	Paul, thank you for making time for me.
	I'm delighted but not surprised that you're such a success with all of this.
	Paul, thank you very much indeed.
	Thank you very much.
	Paul Sinclair, Google him and you will find the Amazon connection to his books and you'll also find out more about him.
	A remarkable man who does very diligent work and I'm glad that there are still people like him in this world.
	And the book, which I've got right in front of me now, is a remarkable book when you think that one man working in Yorkshire by himself has produced all of that.
	I think it's a great tribute to the man and I'm very, very proud of him.
	And people like Jason Gleaves as well, who made his debut on this show as well, and other people that we've talked to over the years.
	More great guests in the pipeline here on The Unexplained as the hot summer of 2019 burns on.
	So until next, we meet.
	My name is Howard Hughes.
	This has been The Unexplained Online.
	And please, whatever you do, stay safe, stay calm.
	And above all, thank you and stay in touch.
	Take care.

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