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Aug. 3, 2019 - The Unexplained - Howard Hughes

01:05:18

Edition 405 - Elaine Kelly

Many great stories from author and ghost investigator Elaine Kelly at the UK's Spectredetectors - based in the North East of England...

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	Across the UK, across continental North America and around the world on the internet, by webcast and by podcast, my name is Howard Hughes and this is The Unexplained.
	Well, it's continuing warm here in London Town, recording this on a day when it's about roughly 75 Fahrenheit, maybe 80 Fahrenheit, what's that, 25, 26 degrees Celsius.
	Last week, though, as you might have read in your local media, and I will keep the weather report brief for those who don't like it, but we hit 39 degrees, which is around about 100 Fahrenheit in the UK.
	Absolutely unheard of here.
	And the conditions were unbearable because our homes tend not to have air conditioning.
	Now, I know a lot of you in different parts of the world, aircon is something that you need.
	I think we're starting to need it here.
	And a lot of people asking, what is going on?
	And is this the onward march of global warming?
	Well, I'll leave you to have your own view about that.
	All I know is it was damned hot here last week.
	And that's all I can say.
	And it's still warm now.
	I live in a place where the heat rises.
	So residually, if that's the word, the heat is actually still here.
	So, you know, I'm doing this in a t-shirt.
	Mind you, I've still got a cup of hot black coffee with me because that's just the kind of guy I am.
	I'll probably have some water later.
	Got to avoid dehydration in this heat, you know.
	The guest on this edition of the show, oh, by the way, thank you to Adam Cornwell for his ongoing hard work.
	Adam from Creative Hotspot in Liverpool for getting this show out to you.
	The guest on this edition of the show, as I was saying, is somebody who I had very briefly on the radio show, probably 10 weeks ago.
	Elaine Kelly is from a ghost investigation outfit.
	Now, there are hundreds of these in the UK, and some of them are less professional or more professional than others.
	Some of them are full of people who've seen one too many editions of Scooby-Doo.
	I was very impressed with Elaine Kelly from the northeast of England and an outfit called Spectre Detectors, which is a great name and buys you a place on the show anyway.
	So she's the guest on this edition.
	We're going to talk about her ongoing ghost investigations, how they do it, and the kind of things that they've been discovering.
	They not only cover the northeast of England, but they also go to other places like Edinburgh.
	But we'll talk with Elaine Kelly in moments from now.
	I just want to address a couple of things here.
	I've often said that doing a show like this, some guests are going to be either loved or hated in equal measure by listeners.
	And that seems to be the case with the last guest, Bruce Fenton, on Edition 404.
	And I'll just give you a couple of the emails that have come in.
	This is from Paul in Buckhurst Hill in London.
	He says, love the show.
	Sometimes, though, with guests like Bruce Fenton, the show becomes farcical and almost unlistenable.
	I realize you challenge some guests.
	In fact, I think I challenge them all, Paul.
	But you let this guy make a fool of you and maybe some of your listeners.
	Really disappointing.
	Avid listener Paul.
	Well, I'm glad you are, Paul.
	Listen, I've been trained to not let anybody make a fool out of me.
	But the way a guest presents their case is the way the guest presents their case.
	And you, Paul, are the jury.
	And thank you for letting me know.
	Now, on the other hand, Carl here says, great episode with Bruce Fenton got me thinking when he was talking about the ships pulling in asteroids to bombard the Earth.
	What if the moon was one of these asteroids and it was left there as a warning to us?
	Just a thought and a chilling one, Carl.
	Another listener, Rich, says, don't know who if this guy is right, but he tells a good story.
	And there were equal numbers of emails from people who really didn't like the edition on hybrids with Bruce Fenton and those who really did.
	So I guess, once again, I'm sort of, in the words of Steeler's Wheel, years and years ago, I'm stuck in the middle here.
	But, you know, I have to say that I try to be as quizzing, that's probably not the word, as probing as you can be.
	But equally, we have to keep a conversation going.
	And if I'm constantly interrupting a guest, any guest, not particularly this guest, but any guest by saying, I don't believe this, number one, I'm imposing my views on the guest.
	And number two, it will interrupt the flow of conversation.
	One thing that I would ask you to do, though, if you don't like something that a guest says, then most of them like your feedback.
	So please email them.
	And if you think they need to be improved, then that's a way that's going to help them to improve.
	Okay, and I'm not talking specifically about the last guest or any guest, but just guests in general.
	Other emails that have come in, just a couple of them, Darren in Bradford says, I've been listening for a few years now.
	I wanted to say it's much appreciated.
	Many thanks for the time and effort you put in.
	Thank you, Darren.
	Lovely to hear from you from Bradford.
	I know it well.
	And from Ryan in Chicago.
	Rather, from Ryan in Ohio.
	Where did I get Chicago from?
	It's the heat.
	It's getting to me.
	I've been listening to your podcast for months now.
	I've really been enjoying it.
	Thank you for that, Ryan.
	And Bernay in Texas sent me one of the best emails I've ever had with a comprehensive review of the way that the show is done and the stuff that's in it.
	Some great ideas and just some nice thoughts that I can tell you at the moment, Bernay, were very, very uplifting.
	Yeah, that's the word, uplifting for me.
	So Bernay, thank you in Texas very much indeed.
	If you want to get in touch, go to my website, theunexplained.tv, and you can follow the link and send me a message from there.
	I'd love to hear from you.
	When you get in touch, tell me who you are, where you are, and how you use the show.
	All right, let's go to the northeast of England now.
	In the heat, I don't think it's going to be quite as hot there.
	Elaine Kelly from Spectre Detectors is here.
	Hello, Elaine.
	Hi.
	Thank you for coming back on the show, Elaine.
	I have to point out to my listener here that you were a bit of a star on my radio show.
	I think about, was it two months ago, Elaine?
	It must have been, yeah, a couple of months ago.
	Yeah, time flies.
	Well, when you're having fun, which according to your website, you definitely have been.
	That was cheesy, wasn't it?
	I think my listener will forgive me.
	It's damned hot here.
	How's the weather?
	Are you in Newcastle?
	I'm in County Durham.
	Close enough, but nearer Durham than Newcastle.
	People there will tell you there's a world of difference, wouldn't they?
	Yeah.
	It's not really.
	Near enough for people listening in other parts of the UK and around the world, I would guess.
	Now, people there, from my experience, and I worked for a number of people from the Northeast, a guy who you might have heard Of called John Morgan, who was John Myers, radio executive and also broadcaster in the Northeast.
	Lovely man.
	But the thing about you all is that you're very warm and open, I find, and much more so than perhaps in the South.
	Although that's a big, big generalization.
	So if we accept that as the case, and I think it is, I think a lot of people would, does that help when you're investigating?
	This is just a little initial kind of question.
	Yeah, it does, unless we're in, this is going to sound awful, but unless we're investigating Scotland.
	Believe it or not, you know, the big fight between Scotland and England does crop up every now and again.
	If we're investigating, it does.
	We did Mary Queen of Scots Visitor Centre and he wouldn't speak to us for ages, the spirit there, because we were English.
	Wow.
	And I have to say, we've got over all of that now.
	We all love each other now.
	So yeah, apart from Scotland, yeah, we do.
	We get a warm welcome usually wherever we go.
	Even when we travel to London.
	Well, I mean, well, that's exceptional.
	But even in this day and age, the Scottish Spirit was aware that you were English.
	Was the Scottish Spirit aware of Brexit, I wonder?
	I'm just wondering whether, you know, the Scottish Spirit wanted to split Scotland from the rest of England and Northern Ireland and Wales.
	You didn't ask.
	Oh, you should have.
	Didn't ask.
	Okay.
	All right.
	Tell me about you then.
	I want to talk about you personally, Elaine Kelly.
	Tell me your story, how you got interested in all this stuff.
	Well, the group started back in 2011.
	So we're coming up for eight year.
	And at the time, and I won't name too many names, but I worked at a well-known supermarket and I worked the night shift.
	And this supermarket had a little spirit.
	And I used to see it quite often.
	And Bev, who is also part of Spectre Detectors, the group, we worked together.
	That's how I met Bev.
	And we both experienced the spirit on many occasions, nearly every night.
	And it was quite surprising how comfortable we were with it.
	And that's really how it started.
	So that led us to wanting to find out more.
	You know, clearly this spirit could make itself known.
	It could move things.
	It would jangle things as we passed.
	It whispered in my ear.
	Did it?
	What did it say?
	It just whispered my name, which was a little bit creepy because I was in the warehouse on my own.
	I didn't stay there very long.
	It was right in my ear.
	So there is a class of spirit.
	I mean, there are the spirits that appear just like a movie playing over and over again, but there are also the ones that appear able to interact.
	And by the sounds of that, when was this, by the way?
	But by the sounds of this, when was it?
	It was, it must have been just about the time we started off, probably back in 2010, something like that.
	So that led to me and Bev thinking, you know what?
	There's got to be more.
	Why don't we try and capture evidence?
	Well, Dev, I mean, you had a great start then, didn't you, it all?
	Because you had one ear that could communicate with you, is what I think I was trying to say.
	But yeah, no, definitely.
	So we just thought, you know, if they wanted to be known as much as we want to hear them, let's give them the chance.
	So we just decided on a whim to hire a look and, you know, Google most haunted places around County Durham.
	We booked one.
	We took a few friends.
	We went along with a camcorder.
	That's all we had.
	Camcorder, a voice corder, a voice recorder and a K2 meter because we'd spent a little bit of money.
	We bought a K2 meter.
	And we caught an EVP of a man groaning that night.
	That was all we caught.
	But I mean, that was enough.
	And it was enough to get us hooked.
	Enough to keep you going.
	I want to go back to the supermarket, though, because that is a great story.
	And my listener will be very upset if I don't explore that a little further.
	This was a presence that was aware of you, aware of you to the point where it was able to move things around in front of you and also know who you were.
	Was it somebody who worked at the supermarket?
	No, I don't want to go too much into where it is just in case they're not very happy, but this supermarket was built on top of what was an old factory.
	And the man used to wear a boiler suit.
	So clearly he was linked to what was there previously.
	So I don't know why, but he decided to pick on, you know, myself and Bev that worked the night shift.
	Maybe it's because it was quieter.
	Maybe because we used to zone out and just carry on with our work because there wasn't many workers on a night shift.
	I mean, lots of people at the supermarket were aware of the spirit because it used to move things off the shelves.
	But it used to just, I don't know, it must have liked us for some reason.
	Or it must have known that we were a little bit more sensitive.
	I don't know.
	Because my family do have mediums in, you know, it's quite a normal thing, you know, the mediumship and healing and all of that.
	So I don't know.
	Did it see a light, a beacon of light from me?
	I don't know.
	Maybe.
	I mean, on some level, perhaps, you know, he just knew that you were an open channel.
	But by the sounds of it, he was wanting to have fun with you.
	He wasn't there to scare you.
	No, no, never felt scared.
	Apart from when he whispered in my ear, but I don't think he meant to scare me.
	I was just more taken back by how close he was to me.
	If something can whisper in your ear, I thought, oh, I don't know whether I felt that he'd crossed a little bit of a line and I wasn't ready for it.
	I don't know.
	But it didn't put me off.
	I mean, I didn't hand me noticing or anything.
	I worked there for six years.
	Have you scared other people off?
	People were a little bit scared that they thought there was a spirit in there because they just, your imagination goes wild, doesn't it?
	If you think that somewhere's haunted and you get a little bit freaked out.
	But both Bev and I were really, really comfortable with it.
	To the point where when we were going into the warehouse, we'd open the door and I'd say, can you hold this door for me?
	You're kidding.
	And the door would stay open and I'd go, shut it now if you like.
	And sometimes it actually did.
	Now, that was probably coincidence, but that was how comfortable we were.
	It was just like having another colleague.
	And you're absolutely, you know, I've got to ask this, but you're absolutely sure that supermarkets and shops, great camaraderie there sometime between people and they have a joke with each other.
	You're certain that it wasn't somebody having a joke?
	No, no, because I was the only one that used to have access to this certain part of the warehouse and there was nobody there.
	So there's no way that somebody could have whispered in my ear.
	There's nobody could have passed without me seeing to go into the warehouse to open the door.
	So if he was so cooperative, you know, you could have had him stacking the shelves.
	Well, I could have given him a job, really.
	But there you go.
	Well, that's a great introduction, isn't it?
	And beyond the fact that there was a factory there before, and we can surmise maybe that the person worked at the factory, you don't know anymore.
	No, I don't know anymore.
	I literally don't know anything more about him because if I'd given time now, from what I've experienced over the last, you know, eight year, I'd have a million questions to ask him now.
	So maybe if I ever bump into him again, I'll find out who he is.
	Did you get any feeling about what he might be or what he might be about or why he was still there?
	You know, if he was there by choice, if he was a trapped spirit, whatever he might have been.
	I didn't get the feeling that he was trapped.
	I just got the feeling that he liked to come and go.
	He was clearly an interactive spirit.
	He wasn't just, you know, a spirit that used to walk through walls and not know you were there.
	It wasn't that kind of thing.
	It was just a, I mean, he might have even been a relation of mine or Bev's.
	We just don't know who he was.
	We have no idea.
	But because we didn't ask.
	And if we'd thought about it now, we should have.
	We should have asked to find out a little bit about him.
	But he played a role in that he started you and Bev off on this.
	He did.
	Let's go back to that first investigation then.
	Yeah.
	So what happened there?
	Really, to be honest with you, we went along.
	We didn't have a clue.
	I'd been on a couple of, I will call them ghost hunts, but I don't really like that title.
	And I wasn't very impressed, to be honest with you, when I went.
	I found it a little bit disrespectful.
	And I thought, you know, if I was a spirit and you were talking to me the way that you are, I wouldn't answer you.
	Now, that's a word you use on the website.
	You say that we do what we do respectfully to spirit.
	So when you say that, what do you mean?
	We don't provoke.
	I would never rile somebody.
	I would never anger a spirit to move something.
	We just don't do that.
	I mean, like I say, when we went to Scotland and we came, I mean, he swore at me in all sorts.
	But by the end of it, I'd coaxed him round to say, you know, that's a long time ago.
	Come and talk to me.
	Come and tell me about you.
	Let's get over that.
	We're all over that part now.
	You just come and tell me about you and they warm to you.
	And that's just, I just think that's respectful.
	I would never speak to a spirit how I wouldn't speak to someone on this plane.
	Let's just put it that way.
	It's just not what I would do.
	And if I ever take photos, because I love spirit photography and I'm probably jumping ahead of myself there, but I love spirit photography.
	And in my mind, I ask, can I take your photo?
	Or I ask out loud, can I take your photo?
	Because you wouldn't stick a camera in someone's face and not take, you know, just take a photo.
	No, if you want to take a selfie with somebody, you say, would you mind either taking this picture for me or would you like to be in this one with me here?
	And I suppose it's the same in the spirit world.
	That's how I think.
	I just think you've got more chance of capturing a spirit if you're respectful and you ask them nicely.
	It's just manners, really.
	It's maybe just the way I was brought up.
	No, I think that's the northeast for you.
	Back to the first investigation then.
	You didn't get much, but you got enough to see you through to the next one and then take you forward.
	Yeah, we did.
	We got, like I say, we caught a groan of a man.
	It was, he sounded a little bit miserable, to be honest with you.
	It was more like a more like a horror film.
	But we knew that that wasn't part of our team.
	We definitely knew.
	We weren't in the room.
	It was caught.
	It wasn't, definitely wasn't any of us because it was a small team.
	Majority of them were women.
	There certainly wasn't anybody with a deep voice like that.
	And that, we can't 100% say it's spirit.
	Well, even though I, you know, believe it to be, but that gave us enough of a taster to try again and to book somewhere else.
	And that's what we used to do.
	We didn't used to do many of them.
	I mean, now I investigate lots.
	But back then, we used to just do it every couple of months or so and just see what we could get.
	And yeah, it's gone from a little light anomaly or a little groan on a voice recorder to then we progressed and purchased more equipment, which I mean, you know, it can be an expensive hobby.
	But just little tools to make spirit communicate easier.
	We used, we bought douse and rods, you know, just the normal things, cheapy things that could, you know, that they could use to communicate.
	Because I believe if spirit wants to talk to you, they will find a way.
	You don't really need high-tech things.
	I think if they want to talk, they will.
	And we have fantastic evidence, even with EVP sessions, and all you need is a voice recorder.
	That's all you need.
	Well, you know, I was talking to an author who writes books about ghosts and spirits and all that stuff recently.
	And he said, one of the problems is that there are an awful lot of amateurs out there.
	And they buy equipment.
	You know, they might buy a recorder.
	They might buy a meter.
	They might be measuring electromagnetics and all the rest of it.
	However, he believed that most of these people, certainly a big proportion of them, had no idea how to use these things.
	Yeah.
	I suppose we've all got to start somewhere.
	I was an amateur when I didn't have a clue.
	I'll hold my hands up and say, all I knew was that I was petrified that I would bring something away with me.
	So I was big on protection prayers.
	And I'd even just googled that and thought, I'm going to say whatever I think, you know, that I don't take anything home.
	And I think that's the big thing.
	I mean, I still do protection prayers now.
	And it's not really a religious thing.
	It's more to give me peace of mind that I want spirit to know that I've come to this place to talk to you, but you're not welcome to follow me home.
	Have you known anybody who hasn't been quite that organized about it or has let things slip and has actually taken, as you say, taken something home?
	I have spoken to people that have come with us because we do do some public events and people have come along at the time and said, you know, I went with a group and they didn't do any of this and things were going bump in my house for ages or they went for a with a group and they pulled out a Ouija board.
	That's another thing that I don't do.
	There's a big sign on your website, front page of the website, apart from the great list of all the places that you've investigated And a list of your equipment, and a list of the fact that you are respectful to spirit, and like a mission statement.
	One thing you say very clearly is no Ouija boards.
	Why is that?
	I think it's because I was warned from a very young age, obviously, given my family and what they do, and none of them really believe in them.
	And my mum said to me, Promise me, promise me you'll never do a Ouija board.
	And I promised her.
	And it's not really that.
	It's more, well, that's a big part of it.
	But there's more when I go to venues, I see what people have left behind.
	We encounter these things by people who, I mean, I don't really know a great deal about Ouija boards because I don't even think I've ever used one as a child.
	But I do believe that you've got to know how to use them properly and you've got to know how to close them down.
	And a lot of people don't.
	And they just hire a place and you're pretty much left to your own devices.
	They let you in.
	Nobody watches you.
	I mean, some venues do.
	And you're just left to it.
	And you can do whatever you want in there.
	So out pops the wager board.
	Let's try and summon up a spirit.
	And then things go a bit crazy on the wager board and they put it away without thinking, right now, how do we control this thing that we've let out?
	And then the likes of me go in and we encounter them.
	I've caught many photographs of things.
	I don't know what they are.
	Things.
	Things.
	Things that don't really look very human to me.
	And we've all come across them.
	I mean, luckily, the group is pretty much made up of mediums.
	And we do kind of sense it when we're going, oh, something's not quite right in here.
	And you can bet your bottom dollar, it'll have a Ouija board attached to it somewhere.
	I was talking to a medium in America called Sherry Dillard last night as we record this.
	And she was saying that one of her earliest experiences, and she's very sensitive, was that she would come across people who had like dark clouds around them.
	You know, there would be these things that were presences.
	You couldn't quite see what they were.
	They were intensely dark.
	And they were almost, the way she described them, almost like clouds.
	So we're saying here that maybe you think the Ouija board, if you don't use it right, and a lot of people go into it for a bit of a giggle, and you really shouldn't, in my view, you should.
	Well, I wouldn't go near a Ouija board, but I don't think you should go into it in that spirit because you're asking for trouble.
	But the fact of the matter is, many people, including you by the sounds of it, believe that there are things, and we've got to use that word things.
	What else can we say?
	There are things that you can unlock, unleash.
	Absolutely.
	Totally believe that.
	I mean, we've just done an investigation a week or so ago, and we were watched by a dark entity in the corner.
	We couldn't make out what it was.
	We just knew it was a black mass and it wasn't moving.
	It was just watching.
	And I caught an EVP and I'm discussing it with Bev actually and saying, I'm going to get my camera out and see if I can take a photo of this thing in the corner.
	And a man, well, I'm saying it's a man.
	It's a very grushed voice says, wake me up on EVP.
	And it does not sound very nice.
	But again, this is a place that's really open to other groups and that you're just let in and you're just let out again.
	And you don't know that somebody hasn't brought that through.
	I mean, I'm just guessing, but I know it was there when we arrived and it had a not an awful feeling, but it just lighted.
	And I didn't like that much.
	I didn't like the way it just stood there.
	It just watched us.
	And then when I played the EVP back and it says, wake me up, I thought I'd rather not, to be honest with you.
	I'd rather just leave you there where you are.
	That's almost like saying, isn't it?
	And you talked about that.
	And I've never thought of it this way, that if you open the door to some of these things, they will stick around because you let them in.
	And, you know, they may develop even further if somebody else allows them in a little bit more.
	But the idea that this presence, whatever it might have been, said, you know, let me in, that's almost like saying, bring me further in and I'll show you what I can really do.
	It is.
	And we had, at the time when we'd noticed it, we were actually doing a good old-fashioned Victorian seance.
	And again, I'm huge on protection prayers.
	And as I was opening the seance, I was saying, we want only love and light.
	We only want positivity in this seance.
	No negativity at all.
	So was he saying, let me in because I'd blocked him out of the circle?
	I don't know.
	How do you think that works?
	I've always been fascinated by that, that entities and spirits appear to obey what you tell them to do.
	So if you tell them not to come in, they won't come in.
	And if you tell them to go back to the light, they go back to the light.
	I've never quite figured out how that works.
	Well, it's a bit above me as well, to be honest with you.
	But I am, again, a big believer on protection.
	But when I say protection, I mean bringing your guides in, bringing family members to protect you.
	I'm big on that.
	So when I do my protection prayer, I always do it in love and light and peace.
	And I ask my guides and inspire us to draw close.
	And I ask that our quest benefit everyone that's among us.
	So we want to learn something.
	We want to come onto an investigation and learn something from a spirit in the spirit world, whether it's something we didn't know about the building, whether it's something we didn't know about them.
	We have many, many spirits come to us and they want to get a message to their family members.
	And they tell us that as well.
	We just want our family to know that we're okay.
	And we record all of this.
	I mean, we usually just give us their first name.
	So it's really hard.
	But I hope that somebody will watch our footage and think, you know what?
	I know that voice.
	And that's where he was from.
	And it's interesting.
	So they don't give you an address to go to.
	No, no.
	Nice if they did.
	I have enough work to do with watching footage.
	Never mind.
	Can I imagine landing at the door and saying, oh, by the way.
	You know, I'm not here to sell you anything.
	I've got a message from Spirit.
	I'm not sure how most people would take that.
	What sorts of messages have you been given that way?
	We did an investigation and a poor lad had been stabbed.
	And he was jumped on by a group and he'd been stabbed.
	And his girlfriend at the time was pregnant.
	And he wanted us To let his girlfriend and his daughter know that he was okay, and that's all the message was.
	But we did this through a spirit box.
	I mean, some people believe in spirit boxes, some people don't.
	Some people just think it's radio and it's just coincidence.
	But I've been sworn at a lot through a spirit box, so I don't know which radio stations would play that.
	Well, none of the ones that I've worked for, not usually.
	Well, in the studio, off the air, maybe, but we're not on the air.
	That's interesting, isn't it?
	No, we just have to explain to people who might be new to all of this, and I think most of my listeners know this, but the spirit box is this thing that tunes up and down the FM radio dial, isn't it?
	And stops randomly.
	Yes.
	And it just picks up random words.
	And it works really good for us.
	I mean, you can tell sometimes if it starts playing music, it's radio.
	But it usually, whenever I'm asking questions, it repeats me.
	Or I have even had my name said, Elaine Kelly, through the spirit box as clear as day.
	So I don't appear on the radio very often.
	So it's certainly not on the radio.
	But we have some great evidence through a spirit box.
	And some people, just whatever works for you.
	If it doesn't work for you, it doesn't work for you.
	But it seems to for us.
	What about the messages, though?
	Can you think of any specific ones beyond the guy who was stabbed?
	And I'm guessing that's a case that you were able to research later, but maybe some others?
	Yeah, yeah.
	I mean, again, going back to Yarm with the whole dark entity in the corner, it kept saying, help, help me, help.
	And I was saying, well, you've got to tell me what you need help with.
	You've got to tell me, because it's so hard sometimes.
	And I know it's hard for them to talk.
	And it just, they kept saying, Peter, Peter.
	Well, Peter is the guy that actually lets us into the hall.
	So I'm just assuming either the man's called Peter or Peter, who's in the hall, knows who this might be.
	So he just said, help me.
	And I said, what is it?
	Do you want me to get a message to somebody?
	Do you want me to get a message to your family?
	And he said, yes, ma'am, if you could.
	And I thought, so he wants to get a message to his ma'am.
	And that's really all he kept saying, Peter, Peter.
	So we didn't get much more than that.
	But I've obviously cropped the footage.
	I've put it onto YouTube and I've sent it to the venue in the hope that Peter knows who this is.
	And we have to say this is a recent investigation.
	It's this year.
	It was just over a week ago.
	Right.
	I didn't realize it was that recent.
	So really, we want to be hearing from Peter because Peter's the man who was referenced there, we think.
	And if anybody knows the key to this, he will.
	Yeah.
	He didn't really want to know any evidence because it scares him, to be honest with you, because he has to let people in.
	But I thought this guy was so adamant that he wants to get a message.
	He was so determined.
	So I've just said, you know, I only emailed him today and said, I know you didn't want any, but please listen to this because you might just be the key to this person.
	So I'll have to let you know at a later date because I haven't heard from him yet.
	You're great.
	I don't have to ask you the questions.
	I was about to say, tell me about it, but you're going to do it anyway.
	You've done some investigations.
	One of them is that I've never heard of anybody investigating a bowls club.
	Now, this is a very British thing.
	For American listeners, I don't think they have bowls this way.
	It's like a game.
	Well, we used to, in Liverpool, there used to be a couple of bowls clubs in local parks where I was brought up.
	And my grandmother used to call them Old Man's Ollies.
	Now, Ollies is a Liverpool word for marbles, okay?
	And it's like a great big game of marbles, played mostly, we have to say, by older men and women.
	It is, yeah.
	It was usually played a lot by the miners, I think.
	It was just a pastime for the miners, because obviously Durham's a big mining community.
	And Spennymore's right at the heart of it.
	Wasn't that Tony Blair's constituency, I think?
	Yes, yeah, it is close to there.
	He was from Trimden, and it's all the same kind of area.
	But the Spenny Mower Balls Club actually started its life as a cooperative store.
	You know, the big co-op.
	And it's all, we've got some tremendous buildings around here that used to be co-ops.
	And that's what Spennymower Ball started its life as.
	So it's a massive building.
	It's gorgeous.
	And again, for our American listeners, the co-op movement, and I will shut up in just a second, but the co-op movement was a movement that was, and I'm well aware of this because we had them in Liverpool.
	They, you know, all very big in the north of England and very big all over the country.
	But co-ops were cooperative societies.
	They were basically for working men to get discounts on things that they bought, clothing and food and stuff like that, also savings and really something that we need today, I think, you know, with the interests of the working man at heart.
	So this was a co-op shop.
	It was a huge co-op department store.
	It used to sell everything.
	It even had a slaughterhouse at the back.
	It was large.
	Yeah.
	And of course, the co-ops died down a little bit as time went on.
	And the Bowls Club obviously must have taken it down.
	So there's a normal shop downstairs and there's the Balls Club upstairs.
	And it's a lovely bar and they have karaoke and it's a big indoor green, a big bowl and green.
	And we have always had sole access because luckily I know the lady that runs it and she said, we've definitely got a ghost.
	We have.
	Will you come along?
	And we've been a few times and it is a great venue.
	And it's mostly children.
	I don't know why it's mostly children.
	Maybe, you know, because they died very young back then.
	And I don't know.
	But we've had some great things.
	It set burglar alarms off when we've been investigating and all kinds of mischievous things they've got up to.
	So this is more than one entity?
	Yeah, there was a man.
	I mean, again, I don't know.
	We have a SLS Connect Stickman.
	I don't know whether that's a new thing, isn't it?
	A new gadget where never heard of what's that?
	It actually picks up.
	It's got like an infrared laser and it picks up a figure and it puts it like a stick man and it shows you it on a laptop.
	That's what we use.
	So it can wave at you, it can move.
	It just shows it like a stick man.
	It's quite funny.
	If we've got people coming along and they just you just want to show them all the different equipment that you can actually use to show spirit, that's what we do.
	And we were using the SLS stick man this night and the mediums picked up on a man leaning on a he was just having a pint.
	This spirit man was having a pint watching us.
	And we picked him up and he actually moved when I asked him to.
	I said, Can you wave at me?
	And he waved at me and it was awesome.
	It's just another way of spirit showing themselves.
	It's just a really good gadget.
	How did you know that he was having a drink?
	Just the medium said, oh, he's having a pint.
	And we actually could smell beer, but we were in a bar as well.
	So you could actually write that off.
	But we did get a strong smell of ale.
	And this man was a regular in the bar.
	He wasn't as much a bowler.
	He was just, he used to come to the bar quite a bit.
	So we have to say it's a social activity as well.
	You know, it's where people get together.
	Yeah, it's a good place.
	They've got bingo and quiz and karaoke.
	And he obviously, it was just a very intimate little bar.
	It's a little club.
	And he was just a member of it.
	I can't remember the name we picked up because I've come across thousands of names.
	He wasn't that interesting, though.
	That was clearly interesting to him.
	It was clearly very important to him.
	And rather than go back and haunt the family or the wife, he goes to a place that he was most familiar with, and that's the bar.
	And where he could get a drink.
	Awesome.
	I love that.
	So far, we haven't heard any tales of anything too malevolent apart from these dark shadows.
	But you were telling me about the Scottish investigation where you had a bit of a row.
	Oh, yeah, yeah.
	Mary Queen of Scots Visitors Centre.
	Again, that was a lovely investigation.
	It was just he was very set in his ways.
	And I find that with Spirit.
	If you're going right back with Spirit and they were set in their ways or a little bit grumpy or didn't really like to talk to you, I've come across people who thought women were beneath them.
	I've come across people because I was wearing red trainers.
	Somebody wouldn't talk to me because I was wearing red shoes.
	What was that case?
	Somebody who actually was aware of your footwear and didn't like it?
	Didn't like it.
	I was wearing red shoes.
	And women of the night wore red shoes.
	That's what he thought.
	He was an old teacher.
	And I had to win him round.
	I guess that's the good old Geordie spirit.
	And I had to say, oh, look, you know, I'm nice.
	I'm a nice person.
	Come and talk to me.
	And he just wanted to talk to the men.
	Didn't want to talk to me.
	But if you go back, I suppose women were beneath the men at the time.
	And he didn't want to answer my questions because I was a woman.
	So they were, isn't that fascinating?
	Again, here's something.
	You're great.
	This is something else I've never thought about.
	Not only do they bring maybe little fragments of their experience or maybe messages, you know, back with them, but they also bring their attitudes across.
	Oh, absolutely.
	Honestly, if, I mean, some have learned their ways and some of them are nicer and they never used to be and they're apologetic and sorry for how they threat people and this, but most of them are still grumpy.
	They're still grumpy when they were grumpy before.
	And that was the case with the guy in the Mary Queen of Scots Museum.
	Yeah, he just found it hard to forgive that I was British or English.
	And he just, you know, obviously he's had a run-in at the time, fought the Brits and all this, that and the other.
	And I was there.
	And why should he talk to me?
	And it must be so difficult for them to get over that.
	But then it's more of a challenge for us to get them over that and to talk to us.
	And I just see it as an everyday thing.
	It's just one of those things now.
	But here's something else that you made me think about.
	They're aware of their situation then.
	They clearly know that they are speaking to somebody in what to them will be a different dimension.
	So they're aware that they're dead.
	Well, I guess so.
	I've never come across anybody that really wasn't.
	I mean, I'm not saying that some people aren't stuck in limbo or, you know, whatever and don't actually realize that they've passed the spirit world, but I haven't experienced that in eight years.
	Maybe I will one day.
	But I just think that people just come like to come back and have a chat.
	I don't, I'm not 100% sure that buildings are haunted.
	I just think people, if they love the place, they come back and they go.
	And I think that maybe they keep an eye on how things are run and make sure you're doing your job properly.
	But I don't think they're there all the time.
	Does that make sense?
	Yes.
	So you think they might be able to divide their time.
	This isn't a fascinating thing to talk about.
	They might be able to divide their time between a place that they loved and wherever else they've gone to.
	Wherever they've gone to.
	That's what I like to think anyway.
	I just think they come back to keep an eye on things.
	And if, and if the, I mean, we do lots of little community centers where they used to have tea dances or, you know, it was a Nafi in the war.
	And they come back and it was, I mean, I know it was hard times, don't get us wrong, but they've had fun.
	They had some lovely times.
	They met the husband there at the tea dance or, you know, all of them things.
	And why shouldn't they pop back?
	Just to reminisce, I suppose, or just to see how things are.
	Or if they know that people like me coming along and they think, oh, I must keep myself free on Saturday night, nine o'clock, Elaine's going to the Nafi.
	I'll just pop in and have a little bit of chat with her.
	You know, I always have this fantasy thought.
	And we have to say that one of the reasons that sometimes it sounds a little bit like I'm interrupting you, it's just the way that the Skype is working here.
	I mean, it's a little modern miracle, but sometimes it sounds that way.
	One of the things I've often thought about, though, is I've wanted to write a story, or maybe not a book necessarily, but about a spirit, somebody who'd had a happy life, not an anguished or tormented life or be murdered or run over by a train, somebody who'd had a really happy life.
	And just because in that place, in that moment is captured all of the love and the joy and everything else that was there, they want to keep coming back.
	You know, I'd like to think that maybe when I'm done, I'll go back to some of the places that meant something to me.
	It would be lovely if that's how it worked.
	Well, I want to.
	I would like to see how, you know, obviously I hope I'm really old and grey when I pass to the spirit world and maybe I'll have 25 great grandchildren.
	I would like to think that I pop back for family celebrations or I'll attend somebody's wedding or, you know, I just want to be still part of it.
	And I like to think that that's what they do.
	I like to think when there's a family occasion, why shouldn't they pop back and be part of it?
	Have you come across Any that didn't want to be where they were?
	I suppose when I've done prisons, I've done a few jails.
	You know, I've done recently, I did the Castle Keep at Newcastle and it was a dungeon.
	So I suppose they told us of the torment that they went through.
	They didn't actually tell us that they still stuck there.
	I think it's just more to educate me on how it was.
	And they have put feelings on part of the group.
	And when we went there, one lady who'd never been before ended up in tears and she couldn't explain why she was crying.
	And I just said, you know, just ask them to back away from you.
	Obviously, that's the only way that they can show you how they felt at that time because it'll have been an awful time.
	You can't even imagine how it felt to be in a dungeon, you know, a thousand years ago or whatever it is.
	So I like to think that they're not still stuck there, that they just come back to show me because that's what I've gone to ask.
	And there's another thing I haven't really thought about that they can imprint in your experience emotions that were experienced at the time they were around.
	Yeah, I get that lots.
	I get that an awful lot.
	I don't know, I've felt, you know, I can, if spirits took their own life by hanging or I get the feeling around my neck and I do feel the intense sadness.
	And it's easy.
	I just say, I know what you're trying to tell me, but you can back off now.
	And they do.
	And I just say that to the whole of the group, whether you're new or whether you're not new.
	You're coming and you're asking for them to communicate with you in any way that they can.
	And sometimes that's the only way that they can.
	They give you the feeling that they had.
	And it doesn't mean you have to bear it all night.
	It's bad enough for a brief second.
	But that's what I tell people, tell me how you're feeling.
	If you've suddenly got a headache that you didn't come in with, tell me.
	Don't put up with it because they might have had a brain tumor or they might have had a blow to the head or they might have had an aneurysm.
	And it gives me something to work on.
	And then I know what to ask.
	And then that way we can try EVPs and see if we can get them to speak or through the spirit box.
	But yeah, we've had that many times.
	I just don't, I just think it's physical mediumship.
	I don't know whether I'm right or whether I'm wrong, but that's what I put it down to.
	I just think they just do what they can.
	So they seem to want you to know the circumstances in which maybe they passed or the circumstances in which they lived.
	The prison thing is interesting because we both know and it happens even today.
	Some people get imprisoned wrongly.
	They're not guilty.
	I would imagine a spirit that was put away in an old-fashioned prison for a crime he did not commit would be pretty anguished.
	And if anybody was going to make an imprint today in a ghostly way, then that would be that person.
	It would be, yeah.
	I mean, we've come across, like I say, we've done Jedborough jail.
	We've done quite a few jails.
	And the things that they used to be, you know, for stealing an apple or, you know, just things like that.
	And you just can't imagine how hard it must have been in them times.
	Being thrown into jail when you're a child for stealing food.
	You know, it's awful.
	But they do come back and tell us.
	And I mean, the children love to come back and talk.
	I don't know whether they grow up in the spirit world and go on or whether they just come and represent themselves how they were at that time so that we can maybe look back and try and find a bit of information about them because they lapasted when they were younger.
	I don't know.
	But it's all interesting.
	That's what's interesting about paranormal.
	It's all it's more questions than answers.
	And you know, places where important things have happened.
	I've just had a thought now.
	And I don't know, I'm interested in the media.
	In fact, before I was interested in radio as a little kid of four and five, I wanted to be on the television.
	And in the northeast, you had a TV station there that was terrific.
	It was called Tyne Tease Television.
	And it had its own building, which has now sadly, like a lot of them, been demolished.
	But I would imagine a place like the old headquarters of Tyne Tees Television, the site of that, where all kinds of things, you know, dramas were played out.
	People were happy.
	They were sad.
	People became famous.
	They became unfamous.
	That would be a place, wouldn't it?
	It would.
	I mean, I went to Liverpool, as you know, that you're from there.
	And I went to the Cavern Club.
	I mean, that would be spectacular to do the Cavern Club.
	They don't allow it, to be honest with you.
	And I caught, and this is going to sound really wacky, but I was just taking photos on my mobile like you do.
	And I have caught a spirit on there.
	And it looks awfully like Scylla Black.
	Now, I'm not going on the TV to say that I've caught a spirit of Scylla Black.
	That's not what I'm saying.
	But you know, and you just think, oh, what about if it was?
	And it's hard to know, isn't it?
	Because we don't know how our minds work.
	And a lot of people of our sort of generation, we know the story of Scylla Black, great entity.
	In fact, I never told you.
	I worked with Scylla on a TV show.
	I was the voice for one of her TV series.
	And I got to know Scylla.
	She was a truly wonderful and massively talented and organized person.
	But her career started doing the cloakroom for the Beatles playing at the cavern.
	And then the Beatles got her up to sing.
	And, you know, one thing led to another.
	And Paul McCartney and the boys made her a star.
	Well, she had the talent to make herself a star, but they helped along the way.
	Just a little help.
	Yeah, it always goes a long way, a little bit of help.
	But yeah, I mean, the caverns are awesome.
	I mean, everybody knows about the cavern and the Beatles.
	And I was just so overwhelmed to be there because I'd wanted to go to Liverpool.
	It was on my bucket list.
	New York's on my bucket list too.
	So if anybody wants to fly me there, I'm more than happy to.
	I want to do that one when I can afford it, if that moment ever comes.
	But you have had a sense, you know, sometimes I'm one of these people.
	And definitely you sound like one of these people too.
	I'm guided by instinct.
	And I do believe that nothing happens at random.
	So in a way, and some of my listeners will say, you're talking rubbish, Howard.
	That's fine.
	You know, you are entitled to your view.
	But if you felt you experienced Scylla Black, and if you think that image might have been her, I think there's every reason to assume that if she was going to go to a place that was important to her, then that's where she'd be.
	Well, I like to think so.
	Or maybe she just, again, thought, you know what?
	Elaine's in the Cavern Club having a pint of lager.
	I'll just pop in and I'll just let her know that I'm here.
	I'm a scouser.
	I've walked past the cavern club.
	In fact, I've walked past the cavern club when it was like semi-derelict.
	Now, of course, it's a huge tourist attraction.
	They've restored it.
	I've actually never been in there.
	Isn't that terrible?
	Shame on you.
	What kind of scouser am I?
	All right.
	Talk to me then about occasions where perhaps, and it doesn't sound like you're easily frightened, but occasions where you might have been a bit scared.
	I've had two experiences of being quite scared.
	Not scared to the point where I gave it up, obviously, because I haven't.
	One of them was, I don't know whether you've ever heard of it, but there's a hotel called the Schooner Hotel, and it's at Alnmouth, up in Northumberland, and it's where the smugglers used to go.
	And there's a bedroom in there, and apparently the story is one man massacred his whole family in this room.
	I don't know why.
	I don't know whether he just lost the plot or what, but I went, I hired the schooner.
	I don't even know whether he allowed it anymore now, but because it was quite a few years ago.
	And I went up there and I was held by the throat in that bedroom.
	And I'd never experienced anything like that.
	Like I say, I felt when they've took their own life by hanging, that's a totally different.
	But when you actually can feel fingers pressing into your throat, that scared me.
	But then it was the fight or flight thing.
	I just said, get your hands off me.
	Because I wouldn't put up with a man doing that to me now.
	And I wasn't going to put up with that anyway.
	But you told him to get off and off he got.
	Yeah, he got off, but I still felt sick and I still had to leave the room for a short while until I composed myself and thought, oh no, you need to get, you know, because I'm a big believer in don't show fear as well.
	I think they feed off fear.
	I think if you're seen as a target, they're going to make a beeline for you.
	So I had to, you know, get myself composed and I just went back in and I carried on the investigation.
	And again, we caught that man on voice recorder.
	He wasn't a very nice spirit.
	He was quite horrible and he obviously hadn't learned.
	How did he sound and what did he say?
	Just gruff at the time.
	I don't know whether you can remember, it was all in the news that people was probably more northeast than anywhere else, but people were leaving food for horses and things with nails in just out of cruelty.
	Cruelty to animals.
	I never heard that story.
	What an absolutely vile and horrible thing to do.
	Vile, horrible.
	So we were talking about this.
	We were just saying, you know, how can you treat somebody or an animal like that?
	And I caught a man saying, I would love it.
	And I just thought, that really sums you up.
	You're just not very nice.
	So whatever you're He was clearly trying to assert his power as he saw it over you.
	Yeah.
	And he just didn't get away with it because I told him to get off.
	Had he done that with anybody else?
	Because somebody not as strong as you might suffer even more.
	Not in the group.
	Not that night.
	He didn't.
	For some reason, I don't know whether it was because I was doing all of the calling out.
	So he maybe saw that I was a little bit bolshy and he didn't like the way, you know, again, if he's a smuggler and he's done whatever to his family and his wife, maybe I was maybe meant to be seen and not heard and he didn't like it.
	So I just told him to get, well, I think I threw a few swear words in as well, to be honest with you.
	And I just told him to get off.
	Well, he certainly deserved them.
	Yeah.
	Well, it was just out my mouth before I'd even realised what I'd said, to be honest with you.
	So that happened.
	And the other, only other time it's happened is we went to 30 East Drive and this was only last year.
	And I think I spoke to the Eel about this the last time I was on.
	Okay, 30 East Drive, where?
	It's at Pontefract.
	Oh, yes, yeah, yeah.
	Pontefract in North Yorkshire, yeah.
	Yeah, it's meant to be Britain's most haunted house.
	And they even did a film about it.
	It's kind of like the Enfield haunting.
	That's what I remember now, because you told me a couple of months ago that you were going there and now you've been somewhere.
	What was that like?
	Well, the first time we went, I'm not going to lie, I'm a bit sceptical when I hire houses for a lot of money that are supposed to be haunted.
	And I just went with this idea that this is just not going to be great.
	I'm just going to sit in a council house and nothing's going to happen much.
	Boy, I got a shock in my life.
	I was even just setting up the cameras and I got really badly punched in the side as I was walking down the stairs.
	You were punched?
	Punched.
	Yeah, in the side.
	And that got my attention.
	I thought, oh, okay.
	I'm sorry, I disrespected you kind of because I didn't think that you were going to be here.
	And after that, I was really careful.
	We never went anywhere on our own.
	We even went twos to the toilet.
	It got that bad.
	But on that investigation, Hannah was walking up the stairs and something pulled her leg from behind, which could have been quite nasty because it could have ended up in a fall.
	We caught an apparition walking across the dining room on CCTV.
	And how did that look?
	It was actually see-through, but to the point where you could still make out the figure and you could even see its arm moving as it walked.
	It is on YouTube, and it did make it onto a Sky TV programme this year.
	30 East Drive actually spoke to a programme and it went on there.
	Some think it is, some think it isn't.
	I know what it looks like to me.
	But it's certainly not a solid black mass because it's supposed to be haunted by the black monk of Pontefract.
	It's not the house that's haunted, it's the land.
	And it's supposed to be a monk that murdered a young girl and hung for it.
	And he's supposed to be seen as a black mass, but what I caught wasn't.
	So I don't know whether I've caught the black monk of Pontefract or I've caught another spirit because there's the guy who lived there died in that house as well.
	I don't know whether I caught him, but it looks male to me.
	And it's just kind of like, you know, when you see the energy from a radiator, that heat.
	It's like a shimmer.
	It is like a shimmer.
	That's what it's like.
	But I'll take it.
	I'm quite happy that I caught it.
	And what about the people who live on that site?
	well, the next there's nobody actually lives in the house, it's just purely let out for paranormal investigations now.
	But the lady that's the keyholder lives next door, she said her house is exactly the same and she lives with it.
	I've never actually been in, but she said everything that happens in the house happens in her house too.
	How do you live with that?
	I don't know.
	I wouldn't like to think I did.
	Did she tell you stories of things that had happened to her?
	Yeah, she used to say that the grandchildren, you know, used to see figures and I think the doors opened and closed themselves and all of that kind of thing.
	But I don't know.
	I'd have to move.
	I don't think I could put up with it.
	I mean, I don't know how.
	Sorry, you were saying you don't know how?
	I don't know how you would move that on if it's the land.
	Because it's really imprinted there for hundreds of years.
	Do you believe that if you are strong enough of character and will, that if you are living with something like this or you're experiencing things like this on a regular basis, as long as you have strength in yourself, then it can't possibly hurt you in any way?
	I don't know, because I think it would chip away.
	I think it would chip away at you where it would have to affect you.
	I don't know whether I could live with it.
	I mean, it's all right, me going to places, I'm expecting it, and I'm asking them to do things and move and I'm fine with it.
	Whether I would like it happening in my front room, I don't think I would.
	I think I would just have to, I don't know, could you tell them to, you don't mind them living here with you, but you don't want to see them?
	You know, maybe you could both live there peacefully as long as you didn't come into my space and I didn't come into your space.
	I don't know if that would work, but I don't know.
	I don't think I could.
	I once had a girlfriend whose home was regularly visited by wood lice.
	And everything she did, this is a strange example, but it just reminds me, everything she did to get rid of wood lice wouldn't work.
	And she'd be standing there saying, oh, running wood lice.
	I can't get rid of them.
	But they seem to have an uneasy compromise because the infestation, if that's what it was, never got any worse.
	It's just that they learn to coexist.
	And maybe it's the same with ghosts and spirits.
	Well, I'm thinking so.
	I mean, I don't know.
	My house might be haunted.
	Maybe I've just not come across it.
	Maybe somebody's living quite happily and having a bath right now.
	And I don't even know about it.
	But my sister used to live in a haunted house and they moved.
	I mean, she put up with it for a while.
	And I suppose they coexisted.
	But she still moved out.
	And was there a straw that broke the camel's back, something that made her decide this is it, then I'm off?
	It used to scatter.
	Well, actually, I think they used to live in perfect harmony towards the end.
	I think when she first moved in, there was a bit of a clash of personalities.
	It used to scatter things.
	She would put like a jar of pebbles somewhere and it would scatter them.
	It clearly didn't like it.
	She put Christmas decorations on the hearth and it would scatter them.
	And then I think they kind of got used to each other and things died down a little bit.
	But it used to pester me.
	And whenever I went to the bathroom, it would rattle the doors and things.
	And I used to think, oh, I just can't cope with this.
	Well, you know, if you want a private moment, that's the private moment, isn't it?
	Yeah, I don't want somebody coming in rattling the door.
	It was just, I don't know.
	And I don't know.
	I don't think I could cope.
	I really don't.
	But then again, I think I'd be scared to get somebody in to move it on in case it didn't work.
	That's interesting.
	Now, have you ever been in a situation where you've had to call somebody in to move something along?
	No.
	I do.
	God, this is going to sound awful.
	I don't really do houses.
	I don't tell people that I can move things on.
	If people are wanting evidence and they want to know that they're not going mad and they want me to film something, that's different.
	If they want to know who it is, I'll go along with my spirit box and see if we can talk to them nicely and kind of maybe get them to move on because they're scared somebody.
	We have done that.
	But if things have got really bad, I just put them in touch with the spiritualist church because I think that's a big onus on me.
	If I think that I can do something and I don't and I make the situation worse.
	You disappoint people.
	I'm not going to live with that.
	I can understand that.
	You said that you were aware of a number of occasions where things have had to be moved on.
	Can you think of a good one?
	We went to the Castle Keep.
	It wasn't actually that long ago.
	I think it was about a month ago.
	And there was a lady there, a girl, and she was, well, not stuck.
	She just felt that she was held there by a nasty spirit.
	That's what she felt.
	And we just said, nobody can hold you here.
	You are now in the spirit world.
	Nobody can hold you here.
	You are in charge of your own destiny.
	If you can see the light, go towards it.
	And that literally was all it took.
	And you just felt the atmosphere lift.
	And then she didn't communicate with us anymore.
	I'm not saying that that's as easy as it is because I don't think it is.
	But I think this girl felt that whoever held her there in her life was still holding her there in her spirit.
	And all she needed was somebody to say, look, you are not, you don't have to be here.
	There's other lovely places where you can be.
	You don't have to be held in a castle.
	That's rather like people in this life, isn't it?
	People who go through abusive relationships or maybe they've got bad jobs or whatever it might be.
	You've got to believe that you can get out of it.
	And if you make a spirit believe they can get out of it, it clearly seems to work the same way.
	Yeah, because we just said, you know, use all of our energy.
	If that's what it takes, if you're tired and you don't have the energy to do it yourself, use our energy because I do believe that spirit do pull your energy.
	And they certainly pull your energy from our gadgets because I go through more batteries than I. Do you feel tired after investigations?
	Yeah, and the day after, I'm shattered.
	And it's not just tired because you haven't gone to bed till three in the morning.
	You've physically drained like you have a hangover.
	And I actually call it a psychic hangover.
	I just think that you've given up all of your energy for the spirit to communicate with you.
	You're just shattered the day after, absolutely shattered.
	And it's not just me, other people in the group have felt it as well.
	But it's worth it, I suppose.
	Well, yeah, now you are going to a place that I know pretty well on the Lancashire-Yorkshire border, where there's actually been UFO activity in the past.
	You're going to a place called Todmodon and a church there.
	Talk to me about that investigation.
	To be honest with you, I've always wanted to investigate a church.
	Now, I would love to investigate Durham Cathedral, but it's not allowed.
	So I'll just have to go with wherever I can investigate a church.
	And I don't know whether you know this, but I've got some books on sale on Amazon and I'm writing my sixth book.
	And I was looking for places that I've always wanted to go to, like a lighthouse.
	We did Roque a lighthouse.
	Always wanted to investigate a lighthouse.
	Got to do it.
	I've always wanted to investigate.
	Did you contact the lighthouse keeper?
	Yes, actually.
	Well, actually, we did contact the lighthouse keeper, but we actually made more of a contact with the guy that built it.
	He was very, very proud of that he had built the PIA tunnel and that he had built the lighthouse.
	And it was awesome because I've come away from the church and I'm now going on to the lighthouse.
	But we got to the top of the lighthouse and there were some plaques that were pinched.
	They were taken in the 70s and they don't know where they are.
	So I was talking to the guy who built the lighthouse and saying to him, Do you think we will be able to get these plaques back?
	And we were having a two and a fro and he was telling me what the plaques were.
	And yes, he thinks it's a great idea.
	They should be back.
	And yes, we should put something in the press and see if anybody has them in a shed somewhere that they don't even know what they are.
	So that was the way that that night went, which was awesome.
	But yeah, the church, I haven't been yet.
	We go later in the year.
	We've told them that we want to do it for a book.
	And all they've said is, because obviously it was built by a certain family, this church, that before I write about it, I send them, you know, everything that I'm going to write in the orcade first.
	And when we film, we don't film the headstones with the names on.
	And that's absolutely fine.
	That's fair.
	It is fair.
	And I never write about a venue without letting them read it first.
	It's only right.
	And then they might have something that they want to add to it.
	Or there might be somebody that came through that they can help me with.
	So that's what it is.
	It's just give and take.
	But yes, I'm really looking forward to the church.
	I can't wait to go.
	And why are you going?
	What sorts of things have happened there?
	I think there's a few other groups have gone.
	I don't know what, because I don't really do research.
	I like to go with a completely open mind.
	I don't like to go thinking another group that went saw this, you know, because I'll be looking for that or I think I will be looking for that.
	I just want to go with a completely open mind.
	So I really don't know that much about it.
	I just know that it was built by a family.
	And apart from that, I don't know anything else.
	So it's very exciting.
	Well, we'll have to, when's it happening when you go in there?
	I think it's September, September or October.
	It's not too far away because I kind of pack in for the year in November.
	Why is that?
	Oh, just because it's family time.
	And not just for me, it's all the rest of the group.
	It's party nights and it's time for the family.
	And I don't know.
	I just like to shoot it off in November and start again in January.
	That makes great sense to me.
	I can catch up with footage and things as well.
	You know, I'm always got a backlog of CCTV to watch or handicams to watch.
	And it just gives me a chance to get it all done and then start again in the new year.
	I absolutely love your attitude to it.
	And thank you for talking with me again, Elaine.
	And I'm glad that we coped with the slight delay on the Skype.
	It was pretty good.
	And you tell some great stories.
	And you have, as I say, a superb attitude to it.
	So if people want to look at the five books that you've got out, find out more about you and the Spectre Detectors, is there one place online they can go to look?
	Usually the best place where I put everything is the same as everybody else today.
	It's Facebook.
	I do have a website, as you know, but I don't update it as often as I should because it takes so long and I don't have that much time.
	The books are available on Amazon and it's under EP Kelly.
	There are five available now.
	Just more or less about the North East.
	There is a one about Jedborough with the nasty Scott.
	And we do have our Ripper Investigation at London for anybody that's into Jack the Ripper.
	But yeah, most of my things or links to things are on my Facebook page.
	And it's just Spectre Detectors.
	Right.
	Well, that's another two conversations we've got to have then.
	Elaine, thank you very much for making time for me.
	I think you're a great guest and I'm sure my listeners will love you.
	And thank you very much.
	Thank you.
	A few stories there to be going on with.
	Elaine Kelly from Spectre Detectors.
	You can find them online and we'll catch up with her either on the radio or here on the podcast quite soon.
	You know, the podcast has been running now for 13 years.
	And that is amazing, isn't it?
	In a world of corporate media, of big public corporations like the BBC or commercial organizations that are more and more grouping together, independent voices are starting to make themselves heard.
	And I've been one of those for 13 years.
	And we've had our ups and downs here.
	There have been times when I've had to give myself a reality check and boost it.
	Times when I've thought, can I carry on doing this?
	And it's always been done on a shoestring.
	But look, it's still here.
	And it's here because of you.
	The guest suggestions, the support, the emails, the ones that criticize and the ones that bolster me along the way.
	They're all gratefully received because, look, I have never, ever believed that I'm God's gift of broadcasting.
	You know, I'm just a guy who does the thing that he loves and have been lucky enough to do that thing for all of his life.
	So, you know, not many people get the chance to do the thing that they love and to keep doing it.
	I, as they say, have never had A proper job, I've always done this, and I've loved it for all of these years.
	Anyway, more great guests in the pipeline here as the summer burns on here in the UK.
	So, until next, we meet.
	My name is Howard Hughes.
	This has been The Unexplained Online.
	And please, whatever you do, stay safe, stay calm, and above all, please stay in touch.
	Thank you very much.
	Take care.

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