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Dec. 2, 2018 - The Unexplained - Howard Hughes
01:13:15
Edition 372 - Rebekah Roth

Former flight attendant Rebekah Roth has her own controversial and shocking take on the events of 9-11...

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Across the UK, across continental North America, and around the world on the internet, by webcast and by podcast, my name is Howard Hughes, and this is the Return of the Unexplained.
Can you believe it?
December already.
It's been pretty mild and wet here in London town.
And as I record this, we have a break in the cloud and the rain for once and beautiful bright sunshine.
But the weather feels more like March or even early April than December.
I guess it still has time to snow and get colder.
But I'm not going to be waiting for that.
Thank you very much for all of your emails.
I will be doing some shout-outs on a future edition of this show, but I want to get to the guest.
Somebody that I've waited about a year and a half to two years to get on the show.
Rebecca Roth.
Now, I guess if you read material along these lines, I mean the unexplained and conspiracy theories and various other connected things, you may well already know who she is.
A flight attendant, she says, of 30 years service, who's written a number of books around and about 9-11.
The first book is the one that we're going to be talking about mainly because that's the one that sets out her case.
It's methodical illusion, and it is based on the real events of 9-11 as she sees them.
And she has unearthed what she believes is the mechanism of the thing.
Now, there are many aspects to the story, and I know that in this conversation, we're only really going to scratch the surface of the mechanics of what Rebecca Roth believes on the basis of her knowledge of the aviation industry happened on 9-11.
There are people, of course, who vehemently disagree with her, but I'm going to let you listen and make up your own mind.
From my point of view, quite often when I've looked back at the events of 9-11, and I think regular listeners know that I was at Ground Zero both for the first and second anniversaries of it, and met a lot of people connected with it, I've always thought there were a number of facts and a number of details that didn't entirely add up.
But I couldn't join the dots and come to any conclusions about that.
I've left that to other people.
So Rebecca Roth is one of those people who's joined her own particular set of dots based, she says, on experience of the airline industry.
So we're talking mainly about methodical illusion.
It is a work of fiction, but based on the real events.
There have been three other books since then, and perhaps in a future conversation, you tell me whether we need to be having that.
We'll talk about those as well.
But on this edition of the show, Rebecca Roth will be the guest.
Thank you very much, as I say, for all of the emails.
If you want to contact me with a guest suggestion or any thoughts about the show, then it's good to hear from you.
When you get in touch, please tell me who you are, where you are, and how you use this show.
Go to my website, designed and created by Adam Cornwell from Creative Hotspot in Liverpool.
It is theunexplained.tv, and you can send me an email by following the link from there.
And if you sent a donation through the website, thank you very much.
That's vital for this work to continue.
All right, let's get to the US now, and Rebecca Roth is the guest on this edition of The Unexplained.
I know it's going to be controversial.
Please let me know what you think.
And we'll take it from there.
So let's get to Rebecca Roth.
Rebecca Roth, thank you very much for coming on my show.
Well, thank you so much for having me.
So Rebecca, look, you now have, I discovered today, four books in this series.
It all started with Mythodical Illusion four years ago, and that became a bestseller and certainly has intrigued a lot of people.
I know you've done a lot of interviews and you've become very media savvy since.
This is a big topic, and everybody takes a view on it.
Why did you want to step into this topic?
What was it about you?
I know you have an airline background, you tell us.
But what was it about the topic of 9-11 and that tragedy that made you want to get involved?
Boy, that's kind of a— Yes, it is.
Multi-layered answer, too.
First off, I could have been on one of those airplanes because I was commuting basically from coast to coast at the time.
I had gotten home about 12 hours prior to everything happening.
So that kind of is personal.
Second, when we do our yearly training to certify as flight attendants here, I'm sure they do in the UK too.
And every year in our training, we go over every kind of airplane incident, what happens to the plane when it crashes into mountains, buildings, fences, whatever.
And we review things that went wrong and things that went right in the evacuation or in the, you know, who survived and that sort of thing.
So on our yearly training after 9-11, and I found this later on because I've been connected with a huge airline family of flight attendants and pilots.
This was across the nation, every airline in the U.S. And when we asked specific questions like, well, how did the hijackers get into the cockpit?
Nobody said that.
You were met with scorn and not to ask any questions about 9-11, which always struck me as being very odd.
And I flew for about four years afterwards.
And every year in our yearly training, they refused to answer any questions.
So that kind of made me suspicious.
Which airline were you flying with at the time?
I flying with a major U.S. carrier.
I flew international and a little bit of domestic, but mostly international.
Because you know that everybody who speaks on any subject, and especially one as sensitive as this, there are lots of people who post online and say, well, you know, which airline did she work with?
And one person I saw last night had posted, and where's the photograph of her in uniform that apparently one of them wanted to see to prove that you actually had done this?
Well, I've had trolls try to find me.
Listen, when I uncovered what I did for the first book, I thought I'd figured it out, but that was not even the tip of the iceberg.
I knew something was wrong.
And when I found out that several of the hijackers were still alive, and I've been contacted by people all around the world.
I've sent autographed books to probably 30 countries, but I've been contacted by people that told me that some of the accused hijackers, or 19 radical Muslims, have been interviewed on TV in places like Turkey and Morocco.
And I don't have a YouTube of it, but I sure would love to see that.
So they know that these guys are still alive, and they were just reconfirming that.
But when I discovered that, I thought, well, how could that be?
I believe the 19 Radical Muslim story, but I couldn't believe the hijack story because it was missing ingredients like the code words, the hijack protocols, and all of that stuff.
I have been attacked by internet trolls that have never worked an airplane in their life.
They have no idea what happens when we get assigned a trip, how we contact the company, how secure our lives are.
I'm not about to give people my home address or anything else because this isn't about me.
It's about 9-11 and it's what I uncovered.
Haven't you actually named the airline that you worked with?
No.
And that's something that you want to do.
It's not about me, and it isn't about that airline.
But I think one thing that is important is that people need to understand that it doesn't matter what airline you worked with, you are a big family.
As a matter of fact, right now, I'm sitting here sipping a cup of Earl Gray tea that an American flight attendant has brought me from London as a gift.
Well, it's the finest tea in the world, Rebecca.
We are.
You know what?
She brought me about a dozen different brands.
It's like, tell me your favorite.
And I'm like, oh, my goodness.
So I've been having a ball because I love Earl Gray.
And what a guy he was.
I just, I mean, the tea is fabulous there.
So anyway, it's kind of fun.
But my airline career, well, let me just say this.
At the time of 9-11, one of the code words for hijacking, for us to speak to our pilots, was in the title of my books.
It is no longer used because the whole hijack procedure has changed.
But the code words were never used.
And so when flight attendants see the books, they know I flew.
It's only internet trolls that kind of live in a basement, have never flown, they don't know what it's all about.
You told me before we went on air that you'd flown a great deal.
Now, did you know that Mohamed Atta was a million-mile passenger on American Airlines?
No.
I mean, I know they found it, they say they found his passport in the rubble of the Twin Towers, which I always thought was extremely odd because documents were turned to ash and, you know, large items that had been in offices were simply non-existent after that.
So how is it that a person's passport, and in particular that person's passport, could survive afterwards?
For me, that was the moment where I started asking questions.
It's interesting because after I, when the first book went to Coast to Coast AM, I was with George Norrie here in the U.S. on it.
And it's a really large audience radio show.
And I was contacted actually by an American flight attendant who was stuck in Tokyo at the time.
And they were sharing a hotel with United, coincidentally.
And so every day they would have a briefing.
And she said, you could have sucked the air out of the room when they announced that ring leader of 9-11 was Mohammed Atta because all the senior flight attendants at America knew him.
They knew who he was.
Now, we have a tendency to know everything about our million mile customers because there aren't that many of them.
So what happens with flight attendants, they will get on a specific, oftentimes they'll get on a specific route.
They'll favor London or they'll favor Tokyo or they'll favor, you know, Seoul Korea or whatever, France, Paris.
And they'll fly that all the time.
So when there's a million mile customer and we know if you like to drink what you drink, if you'd rather sleep, if you take halcyon or some other sleeping pill and might act weird.
I mean, we know everything about you because you're always flying with us.
Now, you know how much you flew when you told me 60,000 miles or so.
I used to do 60,000 miles a year for work, yeah.
Yeah, so imagine the million mile customer has to fly a lot more than that, which is probably much more than the flight attendants.
But the fact that everybody knew him and the fact that his ID isn't necessarily who everybody saw when he was on board, which now leads you to multiple Patsys flying as Mohammed Atta prior to 9-11.
So what happened when I did coast to coast is it opened up this huge door for my airline family, my extended airline family.
And not only airline, but intelligence.
I've even been contacted by someone from GCHQ because in book three, there's a British pilots and they were part of the whole story as well.
I don't want to spoil the story for you.
I'm going to send you a set of books and we'll talk afterwards.
Sure, no, we'll talk more about those because as we say, there are four books now.
And I thought there were two, but now there are four, so they're burgeoning.
And you say that the airline community is an extended family, and they heard you interviewed about this.
And we will get into the framework that you lay out here, certainly in the first book and probably in the second.
But you say that when they heard you, it clearly rang bells with some of them, so much so that they wanted to make contact with you and say, we get where you're coming from here.
Oh, and more than that.
I mean, there were people that, well, like the gal that said, now everybody knew who Muhammad Atto was.
But then you have to ask yourself this.
If the flight attendants knew and he was a million mile customer, why did that never come public?
Why did someone at American Airlines working the Million Mile Passenger Desk at the Frequent Flyer Office come out and say, well, here's where this guy's been flying all along?
And that never came out.
Well, I hadn't heard that until today.
I don't know where I've been, but are you saying that he was a sort of Lee Harvey Oswald character in that Lee Harvey Oswald supposedly had a double that was used?
Somebody used a double and sent the double, I think, to Mexico City or somewhere where he was somewhere else.
Are you saying that there were a number of people traveling as Mohammed Attah?
Yes.
On one frequent flyer, you have to press your, it's like a credit card.
And when you buy your ticket, you process that so they collect your mileage.
How else would they do it?
He wasn't even flying around on Americans so much, according to the government story.
But, you know, both of his parents spoke to him after 9-11.
Both of his parents said that he was working for a foreign intelligence agency.
Well, that is astonishing.
What about the people who contacted you?
Were they able to give you a description of the person that they knew as Mohammed Atta, the million-mile passenger?
No, other than they knew him by name, and that didn't go any, I don't ask him if he drank or ate or.
I guess you can't know all your passengers, but it is interesting that we have this idea that this was a multiple personality.
It was somebody who was a number of people.
Well, when you study, in my fourth book, because a lot of people have a really hard time grasping what really happened, in the fourth book, I do a lot of history of the Central Intelligence Agency.
I hope I'm okay to say that.
And John F. Kennedy assassination and the coup in Iran, Mossadegh, things in Guatemala and Honduras and things that the CRCIA had been a part of.
And so I brought in a lot of that kind of history because there's patterns that they use.
I say that I use the same recipe over and over.
As a matter of fact, not too long ago, in 1962, I believe it was, there was a CIA operation that came out of the chairman of the Joint Chiefs out of the Pentagon called Operation Northwoods.
And it's declassified.
Now you can Google search and read the whole document.
And it's very similar to what they did on 9-11.
It was faked commercial hijackings.
And then they were going to, our own people, our own assassins and characters along that line, contract workers for the Central Intelligence Agency, et cetera, were going to do terrorist attacks and blame everything on the Cuban communists of Castro.
John F. Kennedy refused to go along with the program, but it's all there.
You can read it.
And it is basically 9-11 was like Operation Earthwards version 2.0.
They just updated it.
We know that dirty stuff happens, and we know that there are questions that still need to be asked about 9-11.
And, you know, we would be here for the next three hours, at least, if we rolled out some of those questions.
You know, you can start with what happened to all the rubble from the buildings afterwards, and you could be here for hours talking about that.
But if there was a big conspiracy, let's use that word, to do this thing, and we'll get into why you think this was done, but if there was a big conspiracy to do this thing, an awful lot of people would have been involved in this.
Even if they only needed to know a certain part of the operation, they will have had their own little sector of involvement in this, and there would have been a lot of them to pull something off as big and coordinated as this.
I would have thought you'd have been hearing from those people now.
Have you?
Yes, I have.
Right.
And what have they said?
I mean, you know, I don't need you to name names, to tell me specifically what they claim they did.
But what are you being told?
That's good because I don't name names.
But one of the things I have learned, and I've actually been contacted by someone that was in the very top of one of the...
And each rank, each service, you know, Navy, Air Force, Marines, Army, everybody's got an intelligence agency connected with each type of service.
So I've been contacted by someone who was inside the Pentagon.
Actually, at the moment of the impact of the explosion, he was standing at the guardrail.
So if you look at any of the pictures, you'll see the fire trucks come in and they're fighting a fire, but you see no airplane parts.
And you can see the guardrail where he actually was when the explosion hit.
And a 757 is a large aircraft, if you're old enough to remember.
It's very similar to the 707 before the 747 came out.
That was our big airplane.
We have to say it's, you know, for those who fly, it's bigger than a 737.
Oh, yes.
It's well, yeah.
It's about 180 people, and it's a long airplane.
It's about 159 feet long.
So it's a big airplane.
Something that big flying into the Pentagon, even if the Pentagon is, as we know, a very strong and fortified building, is going to cause a scale of devastation, it has been claimed by those who've looked at this, bigger than what we saw.
But there are people who say that there were bits of wreckage.
I think there was a wheel that was identified and a little bit of rotor from an engine or whatever.
People say that there was a plane there, but other people say this was a missile.
There is no way that could have been a plane.
Well, this gentleman wanted his story to be with me.
So he had retired and was standing there.
There was no aircraft.
Now, let me just say this.
If you've ever been near an airport and had an airplane, especially on the landing part, you know, the end where they come down there about, you know, 500 feet over your head, this airplane would have been 500 feet or less over this guy's head at the time.
There was no airplane.
He's there.
But his office was on the other side of the Pentagon, like straight across.
It's a huge building.
And so when he got eventually that, you know, after a while, he got worked his way around to his office.
Everybody in that end of the Pentagon, which is where the big generals and stuff are too, were just working their regular desks.
They were just working their regular job.
And he said when he got back to his office on the other side, you could smell cordite, which is something you would get if there was hit by a missile.
As a matter of fact, he told me the Pentagon was hit by a missile.
There was no airplane.
He said, trust me, I would have heard it.
It would have flown right over my head.
And so he really wanted his story to be with me.
I'm kind of friendly.
We're friends now, but there was just, I've had several people that were at or in the Pentagon.
There was no airplane there.
There was no crash there.
Yes, you're going to find people that are scared of being killed to tell you the government story.
I don't care if you're in Shanksville, the Pentagon, or the World Trade Center, because They're afraid.
And so people say this: well, how could they have kept that many people silent?
Well, he told me everything is compartmentalized.
And so you're on a need-to-know basis.
So if you and your little group of four or five or six people are working on something, let's just say, you know, something in the towers, you're not going to say anything or, you know, you're going to be dead.
And that's just how it works.
Remember Lee Harvey Oswald.
They will take you out and these people know it.
And I've had so many people from the intelligence world contact me.
One, giving me some security advice.
And two, going along with that story that they're not shocked that people haven't come forward.
And that's kind of one of the things that people think, well, how could they have kept so many people silent?
Because people don't want to die.
Well, listen, I can relate to that absolutely.
And I guess it's a thought that you've had yourself, really, because you put yourself out there.
And I guess, as you say, there is somebody who purported to be from the security services who contacted you to give you security advice.
I am guessing with the things that you're saying, you are going to need it.
Oh, well, yeah.
Like I said, when I released my first book, I thought I'd figured 9-11 out.
That wasn't the tip of the iceberg even.
I wasn't even close to the tip of the iceberg.
But at that time, I thought the NSA and the CIA would be hunting me down.
So I did make a lot of security changes.
I don't stay in one place very long, and I don't carry a phone.
I've done a lot of stuff.
But yeah, it's been amazing.
And I've also been contacted by a lot of people from the New York police and fire.
As a matter of fact, my first book I'd written two years, and I just, I typed it out, you know, printed it out rather, and hung it to, clipped it together with a big old clip and put it on my bookshelf.
And I spent two hours on the phone with a New York firefighter that spent a month in the rubbish pile.
And when I got off that conversation with him, I was inspired to get this book.
I kind of self-edited it, had a friend's husband publish it, and nobody's going to read it.
And then when it went up into the top 10 on Amazon, I was selling thousands of books every hour.
I couldn't even believe what was happening.
And then I realized that I'm not the only one that thinks there's something wrong with that story, the whole 9-11 story.
Everybody thinks there's, but it was so complicated.
The person who contacted me from England had worked at MI5, I believe, and told me, see, in book three, a methodical conclusion, there's a mention of a large Russian cargo plane that was flown by British pilots.
And how do I know that?
Because the air traffic controller that was vectoring them through restricted airspace over Edwards Air Force Base in California contacted me with the story because there was gold coming out of the towers through this Russian cargo plane and they were British pilots.
And this guy told me that, well, the MI6, when they need pilots, we've got this whole list of British Airways pilots and, you know, they'll help us when we need help.
I was like, well, that's interesting.
And when somebody contacts you with a story like that and tells you that, how can you check them out?
I mean, look, I work in and have worked in the news business.
It's hard enough for me to check people out.
How do you do that?
Yeah, well, it depends on what they're telling me.
I already knew the pilots were British because the air traffic controller was in contact with me.
And not only did he tell me that, but his co-worker went and took pictures of this airplane unloading pallets of gold.
And this was prior to 9-11, months prior.
They were bringing gold out of those vaults that were underneath.
And so.
And do you have any idea why that might have been?
Well, you know, if you know the story of the gold and precious metals that were in the vaults, I think Bank of Nova Scotia was one of the banks that had a huge vault.
They found those vaults empty.
They were underneath the twin towers.
And they found one truck that hadn't made its way out that had gold on it.
There was a big insurance collection because they claimed that most of the gold and precious metals were recovered, but some of it was missing.
So they got reimbursed for, they got the gold and they got insurance.
And that's kind of another thing I've found out was there was a lot of insurance fraud by big corporations that happened to be just so coinkedink, coink-dink, coincidentally happened to be targeted by the whatever hit the towers.
Now, after I did the first big audience interview with the first book, and I never said where the planes had landed because I figured this out, and how did I do that?
At the time of 9-11 in 2001, you could not make a cell phone call from an airplane at above about 1,500 feet.
You'll have to figure out that in meters.
I know, in fact, that there's been at least one television documentary here in the UK that has actually tried that.
And I think it's above a couple of thousand feet.
Using the technology we had at the time, making a phone call was not just difficult, it was impossible.
Impossible.
And also the airphones, because I worked airplanes and I worked planes that had those sometimes.
They were on our domestic flights.
But they were very poor, or they'd still be on board.
They were very expensive.
You had to fire it up by swiping a credit card.
And it was like $7 or something to, maybe it was $4 to swipe it open.
You know, I used to go transatlantic and I used to watch people using those things.
And I used to think, God, they must be rich.
Yeah.
Well, just this one flight attendant supposedly called from her jump seat on one, which was impossible because they didn't fit to the jump seat at three right.
Her phone bill, I figured it out once, would have been like OL over $200.
But they've never been able to show you that bill.
But yeah, the phones didn't work very well, and you could usually successfully maybe use one at a time, or maybe if someone was in first class and one person in coach.
But in the 9-11 story, there were like a dozen people on these earphones, and then people were calling from cell phones.
So, what I did was I started with the flight attendants on the first flight, flight 11, and one called from a seatback phone, and the other one called from obviously a cell phone because she said she was in her jump seat at three right.
They were both on the phone for almost a half an hour.
And it was there that I found what I found because they were, they're my people.
I mean, I flew.
I knew exactly what they should have been saying.
I knew what was the most important information to give out and what was the least important information to give out.
So it was the details of their phone calls that I realized that they were not in the air.
And here's why.
Betty Ong, who was a flight attendant sitting at Three Right, claimed that a hijacker, just one, she referred to him as a he, had sprayed pepper spray or mace in business class and they couldn't breathe up there.
But she was at the tail end.
That's a three right's the very aft jump seat on the right side of the aircraft.
That she was okay.
She was on the phone for nearly a half an hour, never complained about the pepper spray or mace.
And if you're in a pressurized cabin, if you flew this much, you'll remember somebody vomiting or using cheap perfume or dropping.
Any bad smell goes right the way, if you're in premium economy or whatever, it goes all the way through it.
Exactly.
And it wasn't bothering her.
And I went, oh my God, my heart sank.
My stomach flipped over and I went, no, they're not in the air.
They're on the ground.
I flew out of Boston, Logan.
So I was quite familiar with the, you know, the coast-to-coast thing and the flight plan.
And through, after my second book, I actually got a terabyte, nearly a terabyte of Freedom of Information Act data, which is radar.
I got their flight plans.
I've got all kinds of radar and text, Word documents, all kinds of stuff from the FAA and the particular, well, almost every air traffic control center from Chicago on East.
And it's a ton of information.
But through that information and the people that came forward to help me, which started happening for halfway through my third book, air traffic controllers like the guy from Edwards, pilots, flight attendants, ground people, other flight attendants, everybody started coming forward, helping me to go through this data, some of it, which you really had to be an air traffic controller.
And if you also were in the military, which this guy was, it helped.
So he had worked not only this, you'll love this, he had not only worked as an air traffic controller at Edwards Air Force Base, now this is a big base, a very private base in California in the Mojave Desert, where sometimes our space shuttles would land.
If it was bad weather in Florida, they would land there.
And there's like a dry lake bed so they could go for miles in there off the runway and keep on going.
So he had actually worked some of the shuttles and he was the military liaison to Area 51.
And so he had great stories.
I'd like to hear those.
Yeah, well, some of them are in the books, actually.
He passed away this spring.
So my fourth book is actually dedicated to him.
He had an aortic aneurysm.
I'm sorry.
And he was in his early 60s, which is, you know, I don't find it a conspiracy at all.
But he had intelligence background, military background, air traffic control, and had been a part of a whole bunch of stuff.
So it was fascinating kind of how that worked.
And just the right people started helping.
And that's kind of how I got book three.
And then with book four, I really wanted to help people understand what I'd uncovered in the first three books.
And so that one kind of goes back into history and putting things together like a puzzle, because it really was.
9-11 was huge.
There was gold theft.
There was insurance fraud.
There was something called the Brady bonds that George H.W. Bush had put together.
There was paper gold bonds that had to be laundered when they shut down the SEC, an emergency shutdown.
There's all kinds of reasons for everything that took place that day.
Of course, it's very hard to, you can have a view based on the information that you've deduced.
It's very hard to substantiate all of that.
I mean, part of me thinks that if you got this information and you've had the last four years of involvement, at least in this, since the first book came out, why were you not before now standing up in front of the United Nations or getting your congressman to take this on?
Have you tried to do that?
Well, I've had several readers purchase sets of books for their congressmen and senators.
So I know probably a dozen or 20 have been given the set of books and told to read them.
The President of the United States now, the one everyone hates, Donald Trump, he has the first three books.
Whether he's read them or not, I don't know.
Or did you send them to him?
No, I had a bunch of other people sending.
I sent him a set, but it was after several, believe it or not, airline pilots sent him sets.
Okay.
Now, we mustn't lose the point about the phone calls, because the phone calls are key about this.
Because what you've been saying, and I've heard a number of interviews with you, is that the phone calls are key.
The phone calls contain the clues as to what went on.
And you're saying what went on is that these planes that were hijacked were taken to a super-secret airbase in Massachusetts.
It had a lot of big hangars in it that could store large military aircraft or civilian ones if they needed to.
And this particular airbase called Westover just happened to be evacuated of its staff.
They were put in hotels on the day that all of this went down.
That's right.
And so when I did that first interview, I never mentioned the Air Force base.
And I got contacted by people that were reservists that had been based there that were activated that day, that got to the base and were told the base had been evacuated.
And they were locked out and put in hotels for two or three days, depending upon how they got called back.
And I've also had, I think, four now eyewitnesses that saw the commercial planes landing at that base.
One of Them is a retired FBI agent.
The others are just people off the street working a grocery store, post office, whatever.
I think you described one witness who said that she saw one of the planes and it was flying so low that you could see people in the windows.
Yeah.
And that was United 175 that she would have seen.
See, I have the flight plan, and so she knew what time it was, had a pretty good idea, probably within a five-minute estimate.
And I have their radar and their flight plan.
So I knew exactly where they were.
So you were asking me, how do I judge people?
Well, I asked her to explain exactly where she was, and she did, and what time it was.
She gave me a good idea because she had an appointment, like a doctor appointment or some kind of appointment at a set time in another town about 30 minutes away.
So she knew exactly when she was outside and saw that.
And so I knew exactly where the airplane was via its flight plan and when it basically kind of fell off radar.
Now, for my first book, I really thought that the remote control system, both airlines had a remote control system, that they were used.
Since then, I don't think there was a remote, there wasn't a remote control needed.
And without saying much more than that, because I don't want to ruin the story, by the way, all four books connect to each other.
So rather than writing a 1500-pager, I broke them up.
I really didn't think I'd write more than one.
I didn't think anybody would read that one.
Because we have to say, and we only sketched over it at the beginning.
I mean, there is so much to talk about here and not nearly enough time.
So this is just like a first conversation.
But you chose the vehicle of a dramatized account, of a work of fiction based on what you say is fact, which is an unusual way of doing things.
And the way that you explained it at the beginning was that you started out by wanting to write a nice book about your time in the air, and then it became something much more serious than that.
So you found yourself with that format and you've continued with it.
But it's an unusual way to tackle this.
Yeah, it is.
But what I found is it's easier for people to read as a novel or watch something as a movie than it is to sit and read a nonfiction of facts.
And they're going to get that one next.
I'm working on a nonfiction book of all the information that has come to me and all the documentation that I have and all that, along with a fifth book in the series, in the novel series.
So I'm kind of busy in my retirement.
I mean, look, the writing is great.
You know, I love good writing, and the writing is fantastic.
I've got page 212 here, and I'm not going to do it justice by trying to read it, but let's just read these words from it.
Max took a bow, and before he turned to walk out the door, he said, You just think about it, you two.
It's from one of the best videos I've ever seen.
It's called 9-11 Truth, 9-11 in a Nutshell.
I've used it many times to help people wake up to the truth, and people usually feel like they've been hoodwinked by the press and our government after watching that video.
Like I said, the media and the government are two arms of the same beast.
Or should I say, two tentacles of the same octopus.
Jim and Vera sat silently staring at the door as it closed.
And after a few minutes, Vera said, I'm wishing I had a martini, and I don't even like to drink martinis.
I honestly don't know what to say.
Those pictures, along with all the information Max gave us, clearly indicate that the events of 9-11 had very little or nothing to do with 19 Arabs that were horrible pilots.
It's truly impossible to believe the government story now.
And I quote, and I haven't read that very well from page 212 of the book.
So it's as close to what you say is what happened as it can be.
As they used to say at the beginning of old TV shows in America these days, only the names have been changed.
And that appears to be the case here.
That's true.
Now, there is no Vera Hanson, and she was kind of a combination of a lot of different flight attendants that I knew over the 30-plus years that I flew.
Little bit of me is in there.
And the little bit of me that's in there is the person that didn't want to know the truth.
And initially, I mean, I bought the government story.
I just couldn't understand how they got an aluminum plane to fly through the South Tower like they did, or to disappear into a trench in Shanksville, or to fly all the way through a steel and Kevlar and steel reinforced multi-layered brick building like the Pentagon.
And one of the things that you say is that there were things happening on the day like real-time video manipulations.
So it appeared that the plane went into the North Tower in the way that it went into the North Tower.
Yeah, well, whatever went into the North Tower is a single engine because you can slow down that little snippet that the Naudet brothers did.
They were actually in New York doing a documentary film, just so happened to turn their camera up there.
And when you slow that film way down, you can see one corkscrew.
Now, mind you, the 767 had two really large, about nine feet in diameter engines.
They both leave a wing vortex.
Or, you know, you can see this one leaves a contrail, but it's one single corkscrew.
So it's not a 767.
And a 767 cannot fly that fast that you can't focus on it at about 1,000 feet above sea level.
The fastest a 767 can go is about 535 miles per hour at 35,000 feet cruising altitude.
And as you come lower, because the air, a consistency of the air gets thicker, you can't, an airplane cannot fly that fast.
The official story claimed that the airplanes were going 700 miles an hour.
Well, that's the speed of a missile.
And if you took a 767 or a 757 and tried to get it to fly that fast, I don't know how you could, for one, but it would destroy the aircraft.
Because I thought cruising speed, even today with modern engine refinements and all the rest of it, when you're 30,000 feet, it's about 600, 650 miles an hour, isn't it?
Max, 600, I think.
There may be some aircraft, like I think Air Force One can go that fast, but most commercial planes are still riding about 500 to 535 at a Cruise speed.
Occasionally, you'll pick up a wind from the tail and you'll get to go a little faster, but that's not cruise speed without a tailwind.
Okay, so you say that all of the planes ended up at this Air Force base where the regular staff and crew there were evacuated to hotels.
They were told they were not required that day.
The place was cleared.
And then this drama unfolded where fake phone calls are made and the whole thing is played out.
Do I have that right?
Yeah, pretty much.
So what happened to the people then?
Where are the people who boarded those planes?
Well, in book three, you're going to find out what happened to their bodies.
But the best we can guess, now, quite frankly, none of the people I've talked to, including myself, were there.
So the most educated guess we can make between pilots, air traffic controllers, military intelligence, military people, is that they probably used some type of gas to, you know, in the aircraft, they're airtight.
So you shut the door with some kind of cyanide gas or something, the people are going to die really quickly.
And they're not going to get out.
I mean, that does sound like something from a James Bond movie.
It sounds, that's the bit of it, I think, that would test credulity, the thought that that could be done.
Well, here, I'm a James Bond fan.
So Ian Fleming was intelligence.
So a lot of the James, I've just recently been watching, a whole bunch of the old Bond, because a lot of the stuff that's in there is associated with 9-11.
So it isn't, I mean, it seems like a fiction.
Like I said, I wrote these books as fiction.
You can believe it or not.
You don't have to read the nonfiction if you can't handle this.
But what's happening, it's like watching a James Bond movie.
For me, I can watch a movie now and go, oh, that's exactly what they did on 9-11, or that's what they did in the Kennedy assassination, because I've been so deep into what the CIA has done in the past, not just the CIA, am I 6'2 ⁇ , and other intelligence agencies.
Massad's got some interesting stories too.
Now, one more thing about Building 7.
There were companies under huge federal investigation.
The largest CIA offices outside of Langley, Virginia were in the World Trade Center Building 7 called the Solomon Building.
Now, interestingly enough, all of that stuff was destroyed, and it was the only copy for the Enron scandal and the WorldCom Global Crossing.
And interestingly enough, speaking of BBC, I think her name is Jane Seymour, if I remember her name correctly, did an announcement on the news.
It was played over the CNN and Worldwide News that the Solomon building had fallen down and collapsed and it's standing behind her because somebody told her that it was going to.
And she made that announcement 20 minutes at least before that building did collapse like a controlled demolition.
Now, it's funny you should say that because I have heard you say that before.
And I checked with a BBC blog called The Editors, I believe it's called, that was issued in February 2007.
And if I can find it in my notes here, but I can summarize it if I can't.
Yep, here it is.
2007.
They say we're not part of a conspiracy.
Nobody told us what to say or do on September the 11th, 2001.
We didn't get told in advance that buildings were going to fall.
We didn't receive press releases or scripts in advance of events happening.
Point two in this blog, and I think there are five points, but maybe more than that.
In the chaos and confusion of that day, I'm quite sure we said things which turned out to be untrue or inaccurate, but at the time they were based on the best information we had.
We did what we always do.
We sourced our reports.
We used qualifying words like apparently, or it's reported, or we're hearing, and we constantly tried to check and double check the information we were receiving.
So literally, what happened according to that was part of the fog of war.
But I know that you say that she was fed that information 20 minutes before the collapse.
And how could that have been?
And what's being said there is that what was happening is just part of the confusion, and I know how this happens, of reporting a live and unfolding news event.
Listen to her words, though.
She said that the Solomon building had collapsed and it is still standing right behind her.
There's no doubt.
And while she's saying the words, the Solomon building has collapsed, it had not collapsed.
So how do you explain that?
Someone had to tell her she didn't see it collapse because it's still up.
So there's a lot of stuff that was going on, whether she was fed that information or just made it up.
But there's something else about that building.
I mean, just to defend a journalist, I'm sure there was no making up of stuff.
But I'm equally sure that there is a good deal of truth in what that blog says, that things happen when live unfolding events occur.
And sometimes you're getting information coming at you from every direction.
I understand that.
And that certainly was going on at 9-11.
And I've got part of the interesting story now for the nonfiction is all of the initial reports and how they got that information.
She's just one example.
Who would have told her that?
Why would she said it?
She could have turned around and seen the Solomon building standing right there because it's visible on the TV screen behind her.
Why would she say that if it hadn't fallen down?
You do have to ask why.
And that's, you know, I'd love to have a chat with her.
Well, I know that you're asking why, but, you know, as I say, when events unfold, it's difficult.
Maybe it's just a psychic.
And of course, well, no, look, of course, if you're doing it, I mean, I'm a radio guy.
I know very little about the mechanisms of television, but sometimes you're sitting in front of a green screen and what you can see and looks like a window behind you is not.
But again, I don't know any of that, but I just wanted to read you that bit of the blog that said, and it's a point that I can relate to, that things happen in the fog of events.
But look, there are other things, many, many other things that don't add up.
You say that there were no working cameras at Boston Logan Airport, that the systems have been changed or modified or something.
And that sounds to me almost like, for example, the photographs of JFK's autopsy.
Hundreds Of color photographs disappeared.
You know, we will probably never, ever see them.
They may have been destroyed.
Who knows?
That rang a bell with me when I read that part of your account.
Well, you know, there's so much of that.
I mean, my friend Max Hager, he calls it coinky-dinks.
There's so many coincidences that people, listen, from my point of view, from working in an airplane and trusting air traffic controllers and trusting the military, as I did before I learned all this.
I looked at it this way when I started to figure out what really happened is how come nobody lost their job.
I mean, nobody lost their job over nothing.
None of them.
None of the people that didn't scramble planes, none of the air traffic controllers that waited a half an hour to get help.
None of them lost their jobs.
But most of them got promoted, which I found really odd.
At first, until I've got it all figured out, and really in book four, it's all figured out.
I found the real hijackers and some are still alive.
And so.
When you say you found the real hijackers, are you saying that you found the people whose names were used?
No, these are not Arabs.
You found people who were involved in what you say went down on that day.
Well, let me just say this, that when stuff happens in an airline, you've got a lot of flight attendants, pilots, and ticket agents and ground people, because if we're going to travel on our own path, so we're going to free travel or reduced fares, we know how to get into the computer system and we can print out what's called a passenger manifest.
Now, both airlines, the United and American, had ticket agents and other employees that went, the minute they found out it was a flight from Boston going to LA, they printed out the passenger manifest.
And there's one important thing missing on both airlines, all four flights.
The Arabs are not there.
And you can't get on an airplane without your name being on the passenger manifest.
Have you seen those documents yourself?
Yes.
Keep in mind that Mohammed Atta was also a million mile customer on American Airlines.
And as you say, he appears to be somebody from what you've deduced and found who was a number of people, a composite.
Yeah, exactly.
And so here's another thing.
So when you become a frequent flyer and a million mile customer, you get a special luggage tag.
And that luggage is guaranteed to get on the airplane.
If we have to put it in a closet where we put our own, stow our own carry-on in a galley carrier or in the cockpit, it's going to be brought on board that airplane.
The official story is that Muhammad Atto flew in from Portland, Maine with barely enough time to make that flight, and his luggage didn't get transferred.
And I'm here to tell you, if you're an American Airlines million-mile customer, the ground people are going to see that tag and they're going to say, oh, we got to run this over to the gate and put it on or run it up from the tarmac up the stairs into the jetway and give it to the purser at the door.
And see, this is Mr. Addis.
We've got to get it on board.
There's so many aspects to this.
I mean, going back to the Pentagon, and it always looked to me as if how could an aircraft have gone into there?
Because, you know, where is it?
Then there would be something of it left, even if there was an enormous explosion and fireball.
But you say that you got a call from a woman who'd been in the Pentagon as she worked there, and she was called, she told you, by an anonymous voice, somebody she didn't know, never heard from before, and told to get out, which indicates that somebody knew that something was going to happen in advance.
That's correct.
And also, I was contacted by someone who had a family member that was called up to dismantle.
Keep in mind, the Pentagon was the most secure and protected building in the entire world.
And yet, we allowed a missile, aka 757, whichever story you'd like to believe, to go through that airspace, not be taken down.
There's Patriot missiles and other defense systems around the Pentagon.
All of that had been turned off.
And a person who contacted me was a family member of the person who was called up to dismantle that system.
And obviously it was dismantled, or we would have shot the plane or the missile down.
Because it really was at the time, and I'm sure it still is, it was famous for being the most protected building in the world.
Well, let me just go back to those phone calls for a second because I think this is really important.
And this is kind of how it all broke loose for me.
When I realized that the two flight attendants on the first flight, flight 11 that left Boston, were on the phone talking about this macer pepper spray and it didn't affect them for almost a half an hour, I realized they were no longer pressurized, so they were probably landed.
What I did was I went on Google Earth and I just got a calculator out and I figured out about how far they would go.
This is before I got the Freedom of Information Act radar and all that.
So I figured out where they could go and I knew they needed at least a 10,000 foot runway to land full of fuel like they were.
And I found this airbase and I thought, wow, that's interesting.
So I went on and I teach you how to do it.
You probably saw Vera and Jim in the book go on airplanemanager.com in the calculator and to pull down a heavy jet and you can do three different types of wind, heavy jet from point A to point B. So I figured out Newark for flight 93 to Westover and then I figured out flight 77 to Westover, which was leaving from Washington's Dulles and the code is IAD.
And when I did that, and this is when my stomach really flipped, because this is when I knew that we had been, as Max Hager would say, hoodwinked, the flight time connected right to when they would have landed when those phone calls started to be made.
Then I also saw an interesting pattern.
On the first plane, two flight attendants called out.
No passengers.
They had nearly 91 overall people, but only two flight attendants called in a half an hour.
Then on flight 175, two passengers called.
One of them worked for MITRE, who Was also a pilot who looked over the Newark International Airport and told his mother on the phone that he thought they were over Ohio.
And this is the Hudson River, and the airport is only four miles across the river from the Twin Towers.
So if you're anywhere in that airspace, and I know that airspace around Newark and into New York, you know, the whole area, it's very distinctive.
You couldn't look out of the window, whatever the circumstances, and mistake that for Ohio, I don't think.
Exactly.
And then I saw that, and then I actually got contacted by his pilot, his mother and the FBI 302s, which are the initial interviews with family members and airline workers and stuff.
His mother said to the FBI that he was a pilot, but his pilot, actually, he was in F-14 Tomcats, and he sat in the back.
He's a radar intercept officer.
And his pilot's wife contacted me.
She said, he's not a pilot.
He was a radar intercept officer.
Okay.
Well, he was trained in Miramar and San Diego, California.
That's the top gun school.
And as part of that top gun school, and I flew actually with some people that actually had gone through that and flew for the Blue Angels and the like, they do extensive survival training and that sort of thing.
So I thought, well, here's this guy.
I started reading about him, and he was like 6'2 or 6'4, 225 pounds.
He was the kind of guy that anybody, if you ever got in a bar fight, I know United Kingdom, I get a few of those.
But if ever you were in a bar fight, that's a guy you'd want with you.
So he's kind of John Wayne of the skies.
Yeah.
And so then I thought, well, that's interesting that he couldn't recognize Newark.
And then the other guy is sitting just across the aisle.
This was a two-aised aircraft.
I think they were at row 31, if I remember correctly.
He was looking over the Statue of Liberty and the Manhattan skyline and told his father for some reason, he thought that the hijackers were going to, none of the hijackers were fluent in English, so I don't know how he thought this, but he thought the hijackers were going to take the plane and fly him into a building in Chicago.
Well, they were only 5,000 feet above the ground at that time, according to all the data that I have.
And how would he have been able to get that information at that stage?
And exactly.
And then as I continued to look and research everything I could find on both those people, that both of the, and no crew members called, nobody, no one else called, and there was like 56 people or so on that one.
But what I found is they both worked for U.S. government contractors, defense contractors and the like.
MITRE is basically a shadow government.
They kind of control everything, including NIST, but DARPA, research and development for the military.
It's kind of really basically a shadow government.
Well, that's what you say, of course.
Well, Wikipedia says it.
You can look it up on Wikipedia.
I mean, that's their description.
You look and see who's all involved.
Then you look and see who was involved in making everything happen on 9-11.
You see the same people, the same players are all there.
I've always been able to see patterns.
So I know I realize I see patterns that other people don't.
But when I started to find out that all of the phone calls started once those planes landed at Westover, then I knew we were in trouble, that this was not at all what we were told.
And then after coast-to-coast interview, I started getting contacted by people who were eyewitnesses to seeing it landing.
They had seen Flight 77 come in or 175 come in.
One thing that you say that is telling as we get to the end of this, and it's the thing that speaks to me perhaps most, is apparently at the end of one of the calls, and you're telling me that the calls were made on the ground, the phone call didn't cut off.
And the words in the background, I think from a woman, were, you did great.
That's correct.
And that was a phone call, C.C. Lyles.
Again, you can hear it on Wikipedia.
It's there under C.C. Lyles or in flight 93.
Now, I've thought about that for the last few hours.
And I thought to myself, well, maybe somebody's in the air in that terrible situation.
I mean, I don't know how I, you know, even the most solid and stable people may freak out in that situation.
So maybe those words were said along the lines of you managed to make the call, you did great.
Or it was something else.
Here's the thing you don't know is that at that time, according to the United States government, National Transportation Safety Board, and the FAA, that at the moment that that call was made, the aircraft was descending out of the sky 6,000 to 10,000 feet a minute.
And at one point when they were going to let's roll, take a hot water to the cockpit on Flight 93, that plane was upside down.
If she did great coming out of the sky at 6,000 to 10,000 feet a minute, let me tell you, that's a rapid and very scary descent.
She worked all credulity, doesn't it?
If that's the situation, then you're being pulled all over the place.
You certainly can't make a phone call.
Yeah, you couldn't even hold a phone to your ear at that point.
And you would also, here's another thing that's interesting about the calls on Flight 93 is the people that received those phone calls said, and almost every one of them mentioned, it was so quiet.
I didn't hear any engines.
I didn't hear any screaming or any chaos in the cabin.
That's because they weren't making calls from that cabin.
And yet if somebody was wanting to stage that in a methodical way and they were doing it in a James Bond-esque style, don't you think that they would have put a recording of engines in the background to make it complete?
Well, there's a lot of things they didn't think about.
And the original story has the hugest flaw for me as a flight attendant, is that cell phones didn't work above 15 to 1,800 feet and still don't.
As a matter of fact, my friend who's right now in London, who brought me my Earl Gray tea, when she flies out, she often still tests her Apple iPhone and still leaving a major city in the United States, she still, she can get on Wi-Fi now because the airplanes are connected to Wi-Fi.
But in 2001, there was no way you could get any kind of signal of anything.
And she says still the phone signal goes away at about 15 to 1,800 feet.
Any kind of reception.
I once tried a little experiment, and you're not supposed to do This, but I was fascinated.
I once took an FM radio.
I think it was on a flight over America.
And, you know, stations are coming in and going out every 15 seconds.
It's not stable.
So I can understand that, and it's been mentioned by other people.
Okay, now look, we've introduced our UK and international listener to you and this story.
At the end of this, I'm interested in you because you have the zeal of a fiction author for this.
You know, you seem to have this appetite for getting more and more information.
Do you sometimes feel it's possible to get disconnected from the real fact that families were torn apart by this?
You know, wives lost husbands, husbands lost wives, families were decimated by the impact of all of this.
And in a way, do you worry that for you gathering information and writing these books, it can cease to be, can seem at times to not be real to you, that you can get detached from reality?
I think the difference between myself and other people that have really spun some crazy conspiracies about 9-11 over the years is that I have nearly a terabyte of Freedom of Information Act data.
I have the flight plans.
I have all kinds of information.
I have airline employees all over the place that have shared their stories, intelligence people from all walks of life, DEA people that were also finding, they were also trailing some of the people that were involved.
And I mean, the list goes on and on.
This is not something I'm doing by myself, nor could I have.
The people that have joined me that have their own 30 or 40 years experience in, let's say, the DEA, that knew stuff also.
They were watching these people.
They were watching people that ended up being involved and for different reasons.
So I don't know.
I never thought I would, of myself as an author, I never wanted to write a book about 9-11.
But when I found the hijacker still alive and started to look at that first plane and the fact that they said things that didn't make sense, Betty Ong also said he stood upstairs.
And there are no stairs on that aircraft, but there are stairs in a hangar because I've been in large hangars because I flew a lot of military charters and I've been in large hangars for a C-5 transport.
So as we say, a big part of your case hangs on those calls and the way that they were made.
First of all, whether it was possible for them to be made, but the way that they were made on the ground or whatever, and the words that were said that would indicate to a professional person, i.e.
you, that there was something not right.
Sure.
Well, you know yourself, if somebody vomits on an airplane and first class, you're going to smell it in the back of coach, or vice versa.
Yeah, because the air system circulates everything everywhere.
I think there are a zillion questions.
My last question to you in this first conversation is this.
Where does this end for you?
Well, I'm right now working on a nonfiction because a lot of people, I mean, nonfiction is kind of boring, but I'm going to try to make it as interesting as possible and expose what and explain what the data that I have because it's not just an opinion.
It's data.
I've got the documents right there.
Like I said, how could you be 5,000 feet above the Hudson River and the Statue of Liberty in Manhattan and think you're going to Chicago?
Impossible.
Because they weren't there.
That's why it works because they weren't there.
And that's when I started to see things.
Here's another thing that happened.
The guy who thought that he was over Ohio when he was looking at Newark International, he also, and as I continued to read, his story is that he was talking to a bunch of other pilots or a bunch of other passengers and they were going to take over the cockpit.
That's the 93 story, the let's roll story.
But somehow he knew that story would be played out in another flight.
Betty Ong from the first flight also said on her phone call, we're the first.
And something I just recently learned through all of the stuff that's going on with our president and the FBI and all of their coup and it involves the MI5 or 6 and the UK intelligence or in the Australian intelligence and stuff.
But one of the things I just learned is that when the FBI does a 302, an interview, it can't change.
And I've got two or three different versions of Betty Ong's 302.
And I'd had them there, printed them all out.
And I've got boxes of information because I don't keep anything on the internet.
I just don't trust anybody.
So you're saying that the first version has to be the definitive version?
Well, the first version has things in it.
Yeah, this is what happened.
The first version has things in it.
Like he stood upstairs.
They referred to the hijacker as one guy, he.
And he stood upstairs.
There's no stairs there, but there's stairs in a hangar.
And if you ever get into a large hangar, they're usually painted bright yellow because the mechanics are often carrying stuff.
And there's office spaces up above, up the stairs, where you could sit on a landline and make a call.
And so the person you're calling could say, well, it sounded like they were in the room right next to me.
I didn't hear any engines, and there's a reason for that because they weren't calling from an airplane coming out of the sky 6,000 to 10,000 feet a minute.
That's a very scary, rapid descent.
People would be screaming.
And questionable whether you could even be holding the phone, let alone ask, let alone ask.
In her case and in the other people's case, if they're in this hangar or in this series of hangars, what was it that made them want to be part of this?
Were they being pressured?
Did they believe they were in an exercise?
What was going on?
I guess we may never know.
We may never know because I haven't met anybody yet.
But I'm not saying they won't show up because I haven't met anybody yet that was actually part of that team.
But we did find a getaway aircraft.
A getaway aircraft.
Yes.
There's so much more to this story.
So after you read your books, we'll be best friends because you're going to want to.
All right.
Well, you know, it's a fascinating story.
It's a desperately tragic and chilling story.
Lastly, then, and I know I said five minutes ago that was my last question, but then, you know, that's just me all over, really.
lastly, you must have had people getting in touch with you, as well as those you say have been providing you with information, to say, don't you think that you should let the souls of those who perished on that fateful day rest in peace without raking this over in this way?
Well, you know, just the opposite has happened.
I've been contacted by parents whose sons were in the towers who thanked me for giving them closure because they knew in their gut that this story wasn't true.
They knew it all along.
By the way, this Bobby McElvaney, I think was his name, he was in the North Tower and it was bombed in the lobby.
And his body did come out.
And that's how they knew there were bombs set in the lobby of the Twin Towers.
And so his father actually contacted me that, and I've been contacted by other people that knew people that were on board.
They're dead.
They're still dead.
Not all of the people that were there are dead because some of them are still alive.
And I found them in book four.
But what we do need to know, and I think this is the biggest hurdle for our minds, is there were not 19 Arabs on board any of those four aircraft.
And if you can grab onto that and you understand that the planes were brought to the ground and that's when the phone calls were made, then it's a whole different story.
And you have to ask yourself, why did this happen?
Well, if you read Operation Northwoods, and I really want you to do this because it's important, all your listeners, go online and just Google search Operation Northwoods.
It's from like the 1960s.
It's declassified and it lays out the CIA and this is from the chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff's plan to make the enemy be Cuba, the communist Cuba.
And so what they did with 9-11 is who have we been fighting now for 17 years?
Afghanistan, there were no Afghanis on board and Iraq.
There were no Iraqis on board either.
But there were 15 supposedly Saudis, seven of them are still alive, but there were supposed, according to the government story, but we've never fought with them or had a problem buying oil or anything else from them.
As a matter of fact, we made deals with the bin Laden construction family for $20 to $30 billion to construct our runways, our air bases, and our fast food joints are all around in Afghanistan and Iraq.
And we haven't even got into the story of Osama bin Laden and his involvement and subsequent capture and subsequent shooting and subsequent burial at sea.
Rebecca Roth, to be continued, as they say, at the end of Patent Place, but boy, this is a story that, look, any conversation about 9-11, because of the complexity of it and because of the enormity of it, I don't know about you, but it leaves me drained.
I've done a few of these, and because there are more questions than there will be time for, that's just how it is.
So I have no idea what it's like to be you.
Well, listen, once you finish reading the novel series, these first four books, and you'll have a lot more questions, and we'll do another show because it's really important.
I think the best delivery system was the novel.
Looking back now, I did it first so I wouldn't be killed because there's some deniability there.
It's a novel.
It's like Ian Fleming.
It's a James Bond movie.
I knew.
I sensed that was the reason you did it in that format.
And so now it won't be that way when I do the nonfiction.
But I really do want to put the nonfiction out there because people need to know the truth.
And like I said, it hits home to me because I could have been on one of those planes.
Rebecca Rof, take care.
One of the other things that the people posting online say is that this is not your real name.
People say a lot of things.
I know the people think my husband's an NSA person too.
But, you know, it's interesting, isn't it, that it wasn't hard for you, even over there on the other side of the pond, to get in touch with me.
Budget, it did take two years to set this interview up, but that's just Murphy's Law.
But yeah, I mean, I really was busy writing these because so much information was coming in, and I just had to spin how am I going to put this all in the stories?
But it isn't, like in, it isn't about me.
It's a fictional story about 9-11.
The non-fiction will be out.
I have found the craziest stuff.
And I guess this is one thing I need to say.
I am not a conspiracy theorist.
I have a scientific mind.
So people are, whether they're talking about Pizzagate and pedophilia or whatever, I just say, send me the data.
Show me proof.
And I have the proof on 9-11.
I have it.
So it doesn't matter if I was a garbage man at the airport, does it?
I figured it out.
And one of the things I found out about trolls is they'll say just about anything.
And here in the America, America, they can.
They have freedom of speech.
So they can say anything about anybody, including our own president.
So I wouldn't worry about that.
That's a whole other debate.
But yeah, the internet has empowered people.
But I guess it's also empowered you because you've been able to spread your work around the world.
So what we say here, it's a double-edged sword.
And when you put yourself out there, a certain amount of flack comes in your direction.
Oh, I read a story online about a woman who spun yarn from her sheep, and she even had trolls.
So I didn't feel so bad.
I don't know what to say about that.
Boy, oh, boy.
There's no hope for any of us there.
People are weird, and the internet has made them be even weirder, and they say the weirdest things.
But since I'm not a conspiracy person, and I've had so many conspiracies run about me that it's insane.
I mean, I know that J.K. Rowlings, for example, writes under several different names, and maybe she's got trolls.
I don't know.
I don't follow her.
But that's not the story here.
And what trolls do is they start little arguments or try to discredit you.
And this happened since the John F. Kennedy assassination.
It's part of the CIA plan, part of Operation Mockingbird.
Discredit you, make lies about you.
It's why my husband's at NSA doing this.
If you only knew the truth, it's just comical.
And so, you know, everybody's got trolls.
They tried real hard to stop me, but, you know, I thought it was the government that I was going to be dealing with.
So I prepared myself a lot better than, I guess, than they did.
And like I said, here in America, they can say anything they want about you, anything.
And I'm sure there are people that say that about you, even if they listen to you through the internet.
I get the feeling, you know, that I could be Mother Teresa and people would still have something to say.
But listen, we could talk about that another time.
Rebecca, thank you very much indeed.
You're so welcome.
Thank you.
Well, of course, any conversation about the events of 9-11 and people's take on them is bound to be controversial.
So if you want to send me an email about your thoughts on this, then I'd be grateful to receive it.
And I'm sure that Rebecca Roth herself, who has a website, will also be keen to hear response and reaction to what she's had to say.
I know that the events of 9-11 forever changed me.
I met some wonderful people who'd been through an awful lot.
And of course, whenever we talk about 9-11, we have to pause and think about those who lost loved ones, dear ones, and whose lives were forever scarred by those events on that day.
Which is why whenever September the 11th rolls round each year, I always stop whatever I'm doing for a little while and think about all of those people and that day.
We have more great guests coming up on the pipeline here at The Unexplained, so until next we meet.
My name is Howard Hughes.
I am in London, and please stay safe, stay calm, and above all, please stay in touch.
Thank you very much.
Take care.
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