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Sept. 3, 2018 - The Unexplained - Howard Hughes
01:08:06
Edition 360 - The Haunted Housewives

Meet Ohio's world famous Haunted Housewives with tales of demons, "attachments" andghosts...

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Across the UK, across continental North America and around the world on the internet, by webcast and by podcast.
My name is Howard Hughes and this is The Unexplained.
Many thanks for all of the emails.
I'm actually going to do shout-outs either on the next edition, I know I said I'd do them this edition, but the next edition, or I will do a special that is all shout-outs and all dealing with your questions.
Please keep your emails coming.
Know that if you have an urgent question, then I will get the answer to you.
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In fact, I've had a couple of those recently.
And those people have said that they've had trouble with the donate button.
Now, I have to say that I've tried it from here.
It seems to work.
May it be something to do with your browser?
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And thank you very much for getting in touch.
If you want to email with a guest suggestion, any ideas about this show, then it's lovely to hear from you at any time about anything.
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That's theunexplained.tv, the one-stop shop and the home of this show.
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Thereof, as they say, this is the first edition of September, and it's going to be a spooky one, I think.
We're going to talk with America's haunted housewives.
You might have seen them on television, certainly if you're in the U.S., and probably definitely if you're in Ohio, but anywhere across the U.S., they're very well known.
Teresa and Kathy should be joining us on this edition of The Unexplained, so let's see how that's all going to work out.
Thank you very much to Adam Cornwell at Creative Hotspot for his hard work on the website and getting the show out to you as ever.
And the year cracks on, eh?
Guest suggestions, gratefully received at any time.
I know I've said that already on this edition, but I mean it.
So if you have some guest suggestions you'd like to make to me, and if you have contact details for them, that makes it even easier because we don't have a huge administrative back office staff here.
We just basically, you know, do what we can with what we've got for all the reasons that I've explained before.
Okay, let's cross to the U.S. now and hook up with the haunted housewives.
Ladies, hello.
Thanks for having us, Howard.
All right.
I think that's Teresa.
Is that so?
This is Teresa.
All right, Teresa.
And Cathy is in the...
We are.
Kathy and I are both in Ohio, not too far from each other.
All right.
Kathy, you're on the more difficult connection.
I think you're talking to me on your phone.
So what I will do is if you want to chime in with this conversation, that's absolutely fine.
And we'll just see how we play this because it's very important, I think, because you are the group that we get both of you.
It will be like, you know, going back to the 60s and talking to the Beatles without getting all four of them.
So I think I need both of you here.
Thanks, Howard.
I'll try my best on my cell phone.
All right.
Okay.
Now, I think it's, I'm not going to do that BBC thing of saying, now, Teresa, may I speak with you?
Now, Kathy, I'll put this to you.
Either of you come in whenever you feel like, and I'm sure it's going to work.
Your name, Haunted Housewives, kind of looks like you're doing this as a hobby.
But I know from what I've read and seen about you online today, that ain't so.
Absolutely.
The Haunted Housewives is not a hobby, although our husbands probably think so or wish it was.
We are housewives first, which is why the name we feel, Kathy and I feel the name is very appropriate, because it's hard to juggle everything we do in the paranormal with our family lives, with our husbands and our children, and with Kathy's grandchildren.
So the Haunted Housewives moniker, it kind of started as a joke with my husband.
He started calling me the haunted housewife every time I had to leave something we were doing with the family to go and ghost hunt or teach a class.
And then when Kathy joined me on my adventure, we became the haunted housewives plural.
So she's actually the ghost lady and I'm the haunted housewife.
But together, we're the haunted housewives.
The ghost lady and the haunted housewife.
You know, that's the title of a whole series.
You could do a remake of Scooby-Doo, the two of you, Kathy.
I agree.
And like Teresa said, it's family first for us.
So it's kind of hard to juggle everything at times.
We do prioritize our family, but we also really enjoy and are very good at what we do as far as the paranormal world is concerned.
We teach a lot of classes.
We do lectures, presentations, we lead investigations, we write books.
So we're very busy in the paranormal world, but we do have our families as well.
And it's very hard to juggle the two.
I know this from a lot of the people that I speak with on this program.
And actually from my own life too, it consumes you.
Once you get into it, it absolutely consumes you.
And if you're not very careful, you start cutting other things out from your life.
Oh, absolutely.
And I mean, it's with any working mother, any working parent probably has similar issues.
And I'm lucky that my husband works quite a bit.
So I have a little more free time than when I was working full-time and my children are a little bit older.
But it still becomes a juggling game with things.
And Kathy and I find that what we do is very important.
So to somebody on the outside who maybe isn't into the paranormal or ghost hunting or historic preservation, they might view it as, oh, you're going ghost hunting.
How cute.
Like we're going bowling.
And it's not like that at all.
We take it very seriously.
I mean, we have done a lot of work with historic preservation, which we raise a lot of money for different groups that are in need, especially historic places and different charities.
And we write.
I mean, it is an income, not by much, but we do view it as work and as a job.
But Kathy has a business out of the paranormal, which is a little more substantial.
Kathy?
Yes, I run a tour company called the Willoughby Ghost Walk, which is a historic tour of our little unique downtown area where I live.
And that has been going on for 11 years.
So really, Teresa and I met out of that effort when I started doing these local historic ghost tours.
And she started coming on them and pestering me to get more involved in the paranormal investigation side of it.
Kathy, I don't know where Willoughby is.
And I should, I've got a lot of listeners in Ohio.
In fact, I've got probably a spike of listeners in Ohio.
And they all sound like really nice people.
It sounds like a nice down-home place, the kind of place that I would like to live because it's full of ordinary people like me living an ordinary life.
This is anything but ordinary.
This place, Willoughby, then, why has it got so many ghosts if indeed it has?
Well, Willoughby is a little town about 20 miles east of Cleveland, Ohio, right on the lake.
And we have had a very historically significant story to tell.
Right now, there's about 20,000 people in my little town.
And we have a very unique, special historic downtown area, which a lot of community suburbs don't have any longer.
We are lucky.
We do have a two-block area that is very, very quaint and very, very much a place of destination for people to go, full of historic buildings.
Well, you can't go by a historic building without saying in your mind, is it haunted?
And I just took the time about 12 years ago to go around and collect stories of the hauntings of the different buildings in our area.
And surprisingly, I had no problem collecting about 12 to 15 right away.
And through the years, that has grown as well.
So we go on a little tour just around this two-block area, including the cemetery, of course.
And people are very intrigued and keep coming back.
And we've been going strong for 11 years.
Like I said, Teresa started to come on it.
And that's when she and I got to know each other.
And now she is actually my favorite guide on our tour.
So we have a good time.
And Willoughby is still spooky.
I think the reason that it's spooky is because all small towns are spooky and haunted.
You just have to take the time to ask the folks who live there.
Okay.
Now, there's a lot of myth around ghost stories.
I mean, my own city of Liverpool has quite a few ghosts and quite a few myths and legends as well.
And it's all good for the tourist industry.
But, you know, how many of these things then, Kathy, before we broaden out our conversation and talk about the other things that you both do, how many of these are genuine and how many of these have you seen evidence of yourself?
Some of them are pretty fantastic.
If you believed some of the stories, there would be ghosts everywhere at every time, in every place.
But some of the stories have substantial historical information that back them up.
So it's kind of surprising to tell a story in history and then find out somebody has something to say that's on the paranormal side that really jives with that story.
And that's what seems to happen over and over again in Willoughby is you'll tell some history, you'll tell the mystery, you'll tell the story or the tragedy.
The next thing you know, someone will say, this is what happened in my place.
And you're like, well, that really matches up with the information that we're talking about.
So it does happen.
Some of it is a little out of hand, I will agree.
But Teresa and I have had a lot of these businesses and buildings ask us to come in and see if the ghosts were real.
And every time we went in, we haven't had any problems finding out that, yes, with an investigation and a little bit of backup evidence, if you will, it does appear that some of these places have a haunting going on.
What's the freakiest, spookiest, scariest thing you've come up with in your own hometown then?
Well, we have our base of operation.
It's called Willoughby Cole.
It's an old building.
I mean, to us here in America, old buildings are from the 1800s.
No, I know.
It's a shame, isn't it?
It's totally different.
So this really old 1800s building seems to be very, very haunted.
And Teresa and I spend a lot of time in there.
In fact, the ghost walk just, it departs from there.
So we'll spend a lot of time in this building.
And it's almost as if these things that happen, they know us, they're familiar with us, they're a part of our life, or we're a part of whatever their life is in the afterlife.
So it's kind of an unusual relationship we have with this building and the spirits that reside there.
So we always say Willoughby Call is probably the most haunted place in downtown Willoughby.
And before we move on, what do the spirits, the ghosts who are there, do?
How do they make their presence felt?
Well, there's a couple of stories that go along with the ghosts that we think we've experienced.
One of them is a tragedy that an owner fell out of a third story window and died there.
And we seem to interact with his spirit or spirits connected with him on a regular basis.
Also, there was a man, an unusual eccentric man who lived there that we seem to connect with as well.
And there's even a dog that seems to reside in the building in spirit form.
Would you get ghostly barks or what?
Ghostly waggly tails?
What happens?
We have heard ghostly growling as well as been touched by this dog's wet nose.
So we've had some strange activities.
The secretary who works in this building regularly says she sees this dog all the time just going around the back of one of the areas.
It was an owner's dog that happened to tragically be killed by the train that runs next door to the building.
So this secretary said to me, I see that dog.
I'll just go to look and right around the corner of one of the rows of hardware, it'll just kind of sneak around the corner and she'll go to look and it's not there.
And you use the phrase interact with the ghost there.
Just give me a quick example, like I say before we move on, how you interact.
The main form of interaction that Teresa and I use is recording.
We have found great success in recording spirit voices or what we assume are spirit voices.
In other words, when we talk into the dark and we ask a question and we give a pregnant pause, in that pregnant pause when nothing is being said and everything is silent, when you play it back on your recording, there's a voice and it's called an electronic voice phenomena.
Teresa and I are very deaf at doing this.
I don't know why.
We just are, we have a lot of luck and we have heard things like, for instance, this one's pretty wild, so I'll throw it out there for you.
We were actually in there on the ghost walk with 20 individuals on this tour.
And I said, would you like to see how this worked?
And I pulled out my recorder.
And one of the ladies on the tour had a birthday.
And towards the end of the recording session, I said, someone in this group has a birthday.
Do you have anything to say?
And we got back on the recording and all the folks there witnessed this, that we were silent and there was nothing, no noise.
And we heard, happy birthday to you on our recording.
And you're sure that nobody was having a joke with you?
True story.
No noise, no anything was occurring then.
I just saw everyone's mouth just drop open like, what?
So our ghosts are even happy to wish us a happy day on our day of our birthday.
Well, it's nice to know they're benign and not malevolent.
One of my recent guests, in fact, said that it's better to use analog equipment for this than modern electronic digital equipment.
Do you find that?
Teresa and I use our favorite recorder, which is an early version of a digital recorder from the 90s.
So it's one of the first recorders that use the digital technology, and that is our go-to for doing these recordings.
Okay, well, if it works for you, like the equipment that I use to do these shows, then stick with it.
Kathy, you did really well on your phone there.
We might have some connection problems with you because I know that you're mobile, whereas Teresa, who we're going to speak with now, I've gone and done that thing we're going to speak with now, is on a better connection.
So Teresa, talk to me about how you got involved in this and how you do these investigations then.
Well, I got involved with ghost hunting probably earlier on in life.
When I was a little kid, I was very interested in the paranormal and ghosts and things like that.
But it wasn't anything that you could really talk about in public because everybody thought you were crazy.
And my family and my teachers thought it was a sin to be dabbling with the occult.
You're a little close to the microphone, Teresa.
If you can be just a little further away, you're just popping slightly.
It's neither.
Oh my God, there's a ghostly creaking there I hear.
That's perfect.
It wasn't something I could really fully embrace as a younger person, even though I did have some paranormal experiences that made me question my faith and everything else.
But as I got older, it became more commonplace to speak about these things in public.
And I hooked up with some people and formed a, we had a little ghost hunting team, but there wasn't a whole lot of ghost hunting with these people.
But I was introduced to Kathy that way.
And like she said, I followed her on the ghost walk.
I kept coming on the ghost walk and I basically stalked her until she agreed to work with me because I wasn't happy with the people that I met who were ghost hunting.
And all they wanted to do was they wanted to mirror what they saw on television.
And I really wasn't interested in that.
And I found Kathy, who is basically a historian and a storyteller.
And I was more of the ghost hunter.
And I just wore her down.
And eventually the restraining order did wear off.
So she had to kind of deal with me.
And I got her to come on an investigation with me.
And I took her to probably one of the most haunted places in the world.
And that's a place called Mansfield Reformatory here in Ohio.
And it's an old prison that closed in 1990.
And it was nuts.
And it was kind of baptism by fire.
And after that, Kathy and I were pretty much inseparable.
So she taught me the history and historic preservation part of it.
And I kind of introduced her to the actual ghost hunting part.
Okay, now I'm going to go back to Kathy for a second to talk about that.
Talk to me about the reformatory then, Kathy.
Oh, my.
Well, I had never done ghost hunting in a professional, if you will, form.
So this was my first time using equipment and different things.
We went to the Mansfield Reformatory, as she said.
Oh, my.
And we had all kinds of things happening to us that night.
And I remember clearly we were in one part of the reformatory, which was the superintendent's house.
And we were trying to do recording, and we didn't really catch much.
So Teresa and I packed up all the equipment and started back towards the room where we would meet the few people that were left in the other part of the prison as we walked out.
And as we walked through one area of the superintendent's house, with my ears, Teresa as the witness, because she also heard it, we heard a woman crying out and moaning, clearly in a stairwell area.
And we both were just shocked.
I looked at her, she looked at me, and we were like, we put our equipment away.
We only have each other.
And we both know what we heard.
And we were amazed.
And we checked all around to see if anybody was in this area of the prison.
And we were quite alone.
And so that was what happened to me the night of Mansfield Reform Tory.
And as she said, I was hooked from that point on.
And I realized there is worth in going ghost hunting or, you know, doing a parallel investigation to back up or to find out more about the historical information that you have.
But one of the things, and Teresa, you might be able to answer this, that you say on your website that you do, is not only do you go there and have the spooky experiences if they're there to be had, but you also check out the history of the place and see if what you experience correlates with what happened there and who was there.
So in the case of the screaming woman, the wailing woman there, were you able to find anything in the historical record about that?
We did.
We thought it unusual to hear a woman screaming in a Man's prison, but knowing the history of the place and the research that we had done and the information we were given, we realized that the woman's voice could quite possibly be one specific woman, and that was the wife of a former warden of the prison who met with a terrible accident and passed away while her and her husband were living there.
And we believe, considering the part of the prison that we heard the sound and the history, the fact that it was unusual to be a woman, that we believe we know that the person we heard was a woman named Helen Gladke.
And poor Helen had quite the life there at the prison.
Her husband being the warden, they lived there on the premises.
And where they lived was completely different.
This prison, if you've ever seen pictures of it or your listeners can look it up, it looks like a medieval castle.
It's beautiful from the outside, but inside, it's something out of a horror movie.
They're six tiers high.
The cell blocks are all decayed right now because it hasn't been in use as a prison in decades.
But the front part of the property is beautiful, where the warden and the assistant warden and the chaplain lived.
It's absolutely beautiful.
So the Glackkeys lived there with their children in kind of in luxury as opposed to what was going on behind them in the prison.
But Helen, there was an accident one morning.
She was reaching for her hat box or jewelry box in her closet.
And as she reached for the box, it came tumbling down and a loaded gun happened to be on top of the box, dropped to the floor and discharged, shooting her in the chest.
And she died later of gunshot wounds.
Oh, complications from that.
A terrible accident and what appalling bad luck, if nothing else.
Yeah, but as historians and researchers, I find that story a little hard to believe.
So, and I wrote about this in my book because I did a little more research into this.
And it could be very well, just as we were told, it was a terrible accident, but there was a lot of inconsistencies to this story.
And regardless of what actually happened to Helen, we do believe that Helen Glackie's spirit is there.
And she either wants people to know that, yes, this was just an accident, or maybe there was something else behind her death.
But it's very sad either way.
And we do believe that is why research is important.
And we gave a name to this voice.
So it wasn't just a disembodied spirit.
We could communicate with Helen by speaking to her by name.
Right.
So what you need to do, I suspect, whether you're going to do it or not, I'm not sure, but you tell me, is go back there now that you're armed with this extra information, surely, and try and get a little bit more substantive detail from whatever might be there.
Right.
And we've been back there several times.
Kathy and I have done many overnight investigations.
We've hosted different events there where we've brought busloads of people in to investigate with us.
And I was actually a volunteer there for two years where I worked in the archives office trying to find more information about things that happened.
Because of all the places Kathy and I have been, that is one of the places that we feel there is something malevolent there.
We did run into something not quite as friendly as what we would experience maybe at a place called Willoughby Cole or on the Ghost Walk.
There's definitely something negative or some bad energy or however you want to categorize it there at Mansfield Prison.
Kathy's had some incredible experiences there with full-bodied apparitions.
And we've gotten some of our most telling EVPs where we have actually been, well, at least I've been called names and threatened by a spirit voice that we didn't hear with our ears, but it shows up on our recorders.
And Kathy picked up an attachment there of someone we believe to have been a former prisoner.
Anna, in that situation, and I'll come back to Kathy in just a second, Teresa, did you not feel scared?
Yeah, we were scared.
I mean, it's hard to get scared sometimes when you do this as often as you want.
But on the occasions when we're at Mansfield, things had happened to us where we knew that we had to be on our guard, that this wasn't all fun and games, that things could happen.
I got physically touched there one time.
I had my hair pulled rather violently.
And in the place where I was in the prison when my hair was actually pulled, I just kept thinking, I was so close to a set of stairs.
What if whatever unseen force pulled me back decided to push me forward instead?
And there's real danger in this sometimes.
Yeah, and the authorities would have to record it as just an unfortunate accident.
They couldn't say paranormal intervention.
They'd just say, you slipped, you fell.
That's it.
Of course.
And there's people that I'm sure still don't believe me to this day that my hair was pulled.
But, you know, I wrote about people that I interviewed when I wrote about this place that were punched in the stomach, that were scratched and pinched.
And yeah, so there's, when you think about a place like a prison, these very unhappy people there, lots of negative energy, lots of emotion building up.
I would imagine that there's still a lot of that emotion trap there, that there's still negative energy, whether you call it ghosts or spirits or whatever.
That was not a happy place to be unless maybe you were the warden living the life of luxury in the front of the place instead of sitting in a cell crammed for four people into a one-person cell and living in there for 23 hours a day.
It sounds like the Shawshank Redemption.
It sounds absolutely dreadful.
But the important point to take away from this.
Really?
The Shawshank Redemption was filmed at Mansfield, yes.
So if you watch the Shawshank Redemption, you can get an idea of what this prison looks like.
I have seen it at least 10 times, and I can probably repeat the dialogue to you so I know exactly this place.
So, all right, Kathy, a full-bodied apparition in this place, you say that you've seen.
Yes, when we were there, this was probably the last time we were there, maybe a couple times ago.
And we were with a group, and I was going to tell them all the expertise on how to ghost hunt.
And they had stopped at a local store and rented a FLIR camera.
A FLIR camera is a heat signature camera.
It'll tell you whether there's a cold spot or a hot spot or it'll show images.
And they didn't even know how to use it.
They were kind of breaking it out, trying to use it.
We turned the corner, and I looked down into the solitary confinement area, and I clearly saw a man duck into the cell.
And I was very confused because it looked like a guard.
He had a hat and everything.
And darn it, these people who didn't have any clue what we were doing had that camera down that hall at that time.
And they caught this man on the camera.
And of course, we all rushed down to the cell and looked in, and there was nobody anywhere in that area.
So that we did, we did actually see several people saw that at Mansfield.
So the Ohio State Reformatory is a very spooky place.
And as she said, I even picked up what we would call an attachment from solitary confinement again somehow, because that's where Teresa and I probably have the most, I guess you would call it abuse with the swearing.
An attachment.
Is that something you took home with you?
Yes, I did.
And he was around for quite a while.
But I was, I don't know if I, I don't think I was naive.
I just think I was very glib about the way I treated the whole thing because I didn't have a problem.
I said, don't try to contact me in my home.
This is my sanctuary.
But every time we would run our recorders, this man's voice was on there.
It was the same man.
And he identified himself by the same name.
And he kept coming with us everywhere we went.
This man was on the recorder.
So somebody said, and I don't, I think I didn't even realize it.
They said, this person is following you around.
That's why he's on the recorder every place you go.
And I thought, oh, okay.
And that's when I realized that this man was from Mansfield.
We found his name on the shower in the solitary confinement.
When we looked up to the ceiling where the paint was peeling off, we saw a man's name and part of a prison number written.
And we did some research on this man and we talked to him by saying, hey, your name is, you know, I don't like to say his name, so I won't.
I said, hey, we see your name.
I wondered why you wanted.
Yeah, I don't like to see his name because I don't ever want him think that we want him to be a part of our lives again.
Well, exactly.
I understand.
Okay.
Yeah.
So we just, we kept saying his name and talking to him like he was there.
And next thing you knew, he was there, all right, for almost two-year period.
Then things got a little strange at the end.
Yeah, at the end.
Wasn't it about two years, Teresa?
Yeah, it was a while.
And Teresa kept on saying, you've got to end this.
You've got to take care of this.
And I kept saying, oh, it's not a big deal to her, you know.
I said, he doesn't do anything.
Well, towards the end, there was a lot more interaction and he even showed himself to me.
And I said, you know, I have like my bed shaking at night and different things like that.
And I guess as a paranormal investigator, you're like, oh, this is the kind of stuff that happens to you.
But when he showed himself to me and it was in a very scary giant form, that was when I was like, I'm done with this.
You're out of here.
And I did take steps to make sure that he could, you know, not be a part of my life any longer.
Did you call an exorcist?
And what did you do?
I actually had some advice from some mediums or psychics that are friends of mine.
And then I went to Sedona, Arizona, which is a very spiritual place here in the United States.
And it's known for the Native American spirits that reside there and the different things that seem to happen there that are very mystical.
And when I went to Sedona, I did consult a psychic there, and she gave me some suggestions.
So I went out to the desert, which is where they claim there's a vortex, a spiritual vortex, an opening.
And I went there and I made my own ritual up and I basically told him that this is a great place to get off.
And so after that point, I really did not sense or hear from him.
And you left him in the desert.
You left him in the desert.
Well, by the sounds of it, it did.
But yeah, I understand why you don't want to say his name now.
But it is intrusive.
If this thing was with you, as you say, for two years, then it would have been with you in all of your most private moments.
Yes, and I always used to say, I just don't want you to watch me in the shower.
Yes.
I mean, by God.
But yeah, other than that, the problems came when he started, like my granddaughter, who was only four or five at the time, started to say his name.
And I was, that, that freaked me out because I was like, because we had an agreement that we weren't going to contact anybody in my family in any way.
And then she started to say his name and say strange things.
And then the next thing was all of them, I have four cats and they started getting sick one after the other.
These cats live indoors.
There's no reason there's any change in their health.
And I thought, is he starting to affect my family?
And then, like I said, he showed himself and I was like, oh, that's it.
We're done.
So maybe I was dabbling too much into some negative energy and I had no business.
But as I said, was I naive or was I just, you know, lazy?
I've told you carefully that it's one of the risks of doing this.
And, you know, some people have tremendous intestinal fortitude and they carry on and some people don't.
You decided to carry on.
Yes.
I am still totally intrigued by the lack of our understanding of what is in the afterlife, really.
It just will always be a question in my mind and many others that what is going on and why are we experiencing these things?
And I'm very confident to say I know there's something else out there.
You know, to presume that we're the only ones that are happening in any given moment is kind of silly.
So I think we'll always keep looking at.
Teresa also had an attachment earlier on.
Teresa?
So, yeah, this was years ago.
Actually, before I started working with Kathy, I was with another group and we did mostly residential.
So we would come in when people would call us, hey, my house is haunted.
I think there's something going on.
And Kathy and I don't do those anymore for various reasons.
But at this one particular case, I didn't sense anything particularly negative at the time when I was at the investigation.
It seemed very routine, not a whole lot going on, but the homeowner was adamant about something bothering her children and just making her life generally miserable.
Well, after that, when I came home, something was different.
I could just tell that there was something going on.
I felt like I was being watched.
I didn't feel like myself.
I started hearing voices.
I started having dreams.
And I feel that I had whatever spirit was at this home attach itself to me because the homeowner then said, hey, after you guys left, everything was fine.
I don't know what you did, but thank you.
Oh, great.
I think what happened was whatever spirit this was decided to follow me.
And I don't like to use the D word.
I don't want to say it was a demon because I feel differently about that.
But it was definitely a very negative, unpleasant sort of entity that affected my sleep.
It affected my health.
I had an unusual string of bad luck that could not be logically explained.
It was bizarre.
And you still want to do this.
Yeah, well, yeah, I eventually got rid of it, but it took a while.
My personality changed.
I was physically ill.
I couldn't sleep.
And I know that it had something to do with whatever spirit or energy was there.
And I actually turned inward to my faith and I recommitted myself to my faith.
And it took a while, but eventually my faith and prayer carried me through and I got rid of it.
But I don't, Kathy and I, we will no longer go on any investigation, no matter how mild it may seem, without protecting ourselves anymore.
So we've learned through our friends at our energy workers different techniques, grounding and shielding and protection rituals, which we do now before and after any investigation we do.
You say that you've turned in on your faith.
You've relied on that.
I don't know what faith you have, but a lot of religions do not, this sort of stuff does not sit easily with them.
Oh, yeah, I'm Catholic, so I was raised by Father, Son, and the Holy Spirit.
Yet when I was in my Catholic school and I wanted to know more about this, I was told that it was dabbling with the occult.
For Christians or Catholics in particular, it's very hard to find acceptance within your church.
And for me, my particular church was not very accepting and very supportive of this.
I have found through research over the years, different Catholic priests and Catholic denominations that do understand it and accept it.
And I was told by one priest out in California, and I was doing some research in an old chapel out there.
This particular church area is very haunted.
And the priest there, Father Ray, he will speak to you at length about the spirits and ghosts there.
And he told me what I believe, that our entire faith is based on paranormal ideas, the supernatural.
A man rose from the dead.
You hear voices from beyond, spirits.
It's all paranormal.
So he told me, you know, not to worry about it as long as I believed in God and was open to his love, that everything would be okay.
And so he kind of renewed my faith in my faith that it was okay.
Not everybody is the same.
People are different.
Well, look, I come from Liverpool and we have a strong Catholic presence in Liverpool.
Half of my family is Catholic and half of my family is on the other side.
But I can tell you that some of the people that, you know, my family years ago would have encountered in Liverpool would have regarded this kind of stuff as a ticket for you to hell.
Yeah, that's what I was told, that I was dabbling with the occult and speaking with Satan and I was going to go to hell if I continued.
And luckily, I don't believe that.
And I found someone in my faith that agrees.
And I think religion is very personal, and it depends on your religion and your personal belief system.
But I no longer fear that.
But I do know that that's what it took.
It took me recommitting myself to faithfully believing in God and his protection to get that negative crap away from me.
And now I believe that that is what protects me when I go on investigations.
And, you know, nothing is foolproof and bad things still happen, but it doesn't scare me as much anymore.
And I don't believe that there's anything wrong with what we do.
I think that it's, I've asked, I've asked God, I said, if this is something you don't want me to do, give me a sign and I'll stop.
And every time I usually say that, we'll get a request to be on a TV show or an offer to write an article or a book or something.
So I think that it's telling me that it's okay.
I can continue to what I'm doing.
He's okay with it.
So you carry on.
The late, and I don't know if you're aware of him, I suspect you might be, the late and the remarkable Father Malachi Martin, who was somebody who used to do regular battle with demonic instances.
And he was in no doubt that Satan is a real thing.
He used to talk about it very frequently until he met his own untimely end.
And I believe he fell down some stairs.
And there's a lot of speculation about how that happened.
Do you think that Satan is real?
Have you encountered something satanic when you've been doing this work?
I believe that Satan is real.
I believe that just as God is very good and altruistic and loving, that there is an opposite side of that.
So I do believe That the devil is real, that Satan is real.
I don't know if I believe in everything that I've been told about hell and about Satan's powers and demons, but I do believe that there is something strong and negative that kind of counteracts all the good that God has given our world.
As far as demons, I believe that there is something maybe that was never human, that is negative, that has that energy, just because if I can believe in angels and those kind of heavenly beings, I believe that there is an opposite, a counterpart to that, which would be demonic.
I do not believe that demons are as prevalent as people make them out to be.
Although even in my own Catholic faith, and this is not something they talk about, you know, they do exorcisms in Rome, like on a daily basis.
Oh, indeed.
And they have a training program in Rome for young priests to do those things.
You told me it wasn't no such thing.
That is something that they do regularly.
It's just not something they talk about often.
I'm assuming that barking I can hear in the background is not the ghost dog, by the way.
It's not the ghost dog, is it?
It's not the ghost dog dog.
It's given dogs of mine.
Okay.
But, you know, you told me about a ghost dog at the beginning.
I just wondered whether that was it.
No, it's not the ghost dogs.
These are very real and noise.
No, it's fine.
It all adds to it.
I think we need to get back to Kathy.
I watched a video report from a TV station in the U.S. Don't know which one, but Channel 18 or something, about a place called, is it the Walker Farmhouse that was one of the most haunted places that you investigated?
Are you talking about Walker flooring, maybe?
W-O-I-O?
Yeah, maybe that's it was Walker something.
Okay, it was a very haunted place.
Walker flooring.
Yes, it was a very interesting place.
We didn't know a lot about the site.
We did get a little bit of history in, and we heard from the owners what they felt was going on and what the previous owners had to do with the haunting.
I remember it was interesting because it was the first time I think we were followed around by a camera crew and it was going to be on their Halloween special on the news.
And it was kind of strange to have a sound man and a producer and a person asking us, you know, doing type of interview with us while we were trying to do ghost hunting.
We didn't get a lot happening, but one thing that happened to me was that was the first time I think I saw a ghost in my mind was at that place.
And when I got home, I did more historical investigation and realized the person that I saw was the previous owner, an older man that had owned it when it was called the Mulberry Gift Shop or something.
So it was very an interesting night.
It ended up being pretty cool on the television if you got to see the shot on there.
It was pretty cool.
But yeah, it was an interesting night.
Not super spooky there, but nice people and having something strange going on in their place.
What about the Queen Mary, a famous British liner?
You know, ended its days in Los Angeles.
A lot of people go there.
A lot of people say that that ship is seriously haunted.
That was a pleasant surprise for Teresa and I because we were intending to go on the regular public tour.
And when we got there, we were the only ones signed up for the tour because no one else was about.
Oh, really?
And it was one of their more light days.
It was on a weekday.
And next thing you knew, the lady who was leading the tour was willing to take our, you know, is it haunted and where are the ghosts seriously and took us off the tour into some of the other areas to show us where they had had experiences of the paranormal.
And we were really lucky because we went through the dressing rooms off of the pool or the locker rooms.
And we had some pretty weird experiences in those rooms.
So luckily, Teresa always carries a recorder with her.
I mean, she's in the grocery store.
She would whiff the recorder seriously.
So luckily, we had some equipment with us, and we did get to capture some interesting phenomena while we were there.
Queen Mary was awesome.
Teresa.
There goes my dog.
What did you capture, Teresa?
Queen Mary was great.
Like Kathy said, we were in the dressing room by the pool, and the claims are there's a vortex there and there was a little girl that drowned in the pool and you could see her little wet footsteps and hear her giggling.
Yeah, no, I mean, that's a very common story.
I've heard that story from other people.
Right, you know, but it's not true.
There was never a girl that drowned in the pool.
I mean, I did extensive research on that because that's in my book as well.
But there was never a little girl that drowned there.
Be that as it may, we still hear her voice.
And we did capture.
We captured the giggles of a little girl.
Kathy was grabbed or touched on an ankle, on her ankle in the dressing room.
We definitely felt something in that dressing room that really kind of surprised us.
And our tour guide was freaking out and just wanted to leave.
But the dressing room wasn't the only place.
We heard moaning in one of the rooms where the boilers are, where there was another documented death.
And we actually snuck into the Queen's salon and we weren't supposed to be in there, the great big ballroom.
Yeah, we snuck in there and our guy was like, well, just hurry up.
You're not supposed to be in there.
So we went in there for a few minutes and we looked and we're like, oh, we're busted because I saw somebody and we looked over and we saw somebody dressed like a captain.
So we thought it was somebody from the Queen Mary come to chase us out.
And we looked at them and then they just disappeared.
So we saw a ghost there and that was just one of several experiences on the Queen Mary, which was a phenomenal, beautiful place.
But it's full of incorrect history and stories that have been elaborated over the years.
But we tend to find that a lot.
You hear a story about a place and you hear the reputation of the spirits and the ghosts, and then you do the research and they don't match.
But just because they don't match doesn't mean the place isn't haunted.
And we find it fascinating when people say this place is haunted by this spirit of a little boy or a little girl.
And then you have nothing to back that up.
Yet people are continually capturing voices Or seeing visions or pictures of what they claim is haunting there.
So we can't explain it.
Maybe people are creating their own ghosts by believing that they're not.
Maybe people are experiencing, for example, the girl, and I have heard that story for a number of people I've spoken with on this show.
You know, maybe over the years, people have heard this, and you want to fill a vacuum.
If there's a vacuum of information there, then you fill it with a story.
And that's maybe what happened over the decades.
Yeah, and that's kind of what we believe.
You believe in something long enough and it could happen.
And it could be the ghost of a little girl from the ship.
Doesn't mean she was the one that they believed died in the pool because that never happened.
But it could be something or it could be a spirit that's just, hey, you want to talk to a little girl named Jackie?
I'll be a little girl named Jackie because I want to talk to you.
So we don't know.
We can't really understand why it happens, but it happens.
That's one of the fascinating things that keeps us coming back and keeps us wanting to investigate and to research and get involved in this.
It's just absolutely fascinating.
I think we're coping with the digital technology and the three-way hookup really well here.
But just to explain to my listener, we've got Kathy on a phone connection and we've got Teresa on an internet connection and we're doing a three-way with me in London.
They're both in Ohio in different parts.
And we're talking about ghosts and general spookiness of an extreme nature in some cases.
I've got a list here of places out of state that you've been to.
Lots of parts of the U.S., California, we've talked about.
One of them, and I'm sure I'm going to pronounce this wrongly, is the Trans-Allegheny Lunatic Asylum in West Virginia.
Something says to me that somewhere with a name like that from the past, and we don't use terms like that anymore, but they did it back in the 30s, 20s, whatever.
But something tells me something with a name like that is going to be seriously haunted.
Yeah, you pronounced it correctly.
Absolutely.
And Howard, let me interrupt for one second.
I'm going to start my car because I have to go pick up my granddaughter right now.
Okay, well, Kathy, thank you very much.
It's not annoying to you.
I mean, I'm either going to get off or stay on, but I think I probably have to get off because it's fine.
I think my connection is going to be that great.
I think it makes it sound really easy.
I'm traveling down the road talking to you right now.
Okay, well, look, just stay where you are, but I'll carry it on with Teresa.
And Kathy, if you hear it, you want to chip in, do that.
But please don't put yourself at any risk, whatever you do.
So, Teresa, this.
My wall is annoying you.
Oh, no, we're going to phone quality.
I think we ought to carry on with Teresa.
So, Teresa, if you want to talk with me here, and Kathy, if you want to bow out of this, we'll talk again.
Once she gets off, I'll put you on the radio show, both of you, and we'll do it on broadcast phone lines, and we'll take it from there.
But, Teresa, this lunatic asylum, a term they tend not to use these days, well, they don't use these days, very much speaks to the 1930s.
What was this place like?
Yeah, the Trans-Allegheny Lunatic Asylum, like the name suggests, was a hospital for the insane, or not a term that they use anymore.
And it was actually the Weston State Hospital.
The original name was a combination of the Weston Lunatic Asylum or something like that.
And the people who own it now went back to the old name, Trans-Allegheny Lunatic Asylum, because of the shock value of the name, and it gets people interested.
And what it was, is it was developed to help people who basically had no other place to go.
They didn't have a lot of hospitals back then that could treat people that had mental disorders.
Now, when I say that, I'm being very general because they considered people who had alcoholism, who were depressed, who maybe were autistic.
I mean, anything could fall into this category of being illnesses.
Oh, and this side of the Atlantic, too, they were repositories for all sorts of things they should not have been.
Right.
It was just a dumping ground for the unwanted.
And actually, you could commit.
If your husband didn't care for you anymore, he could have you committed for any reasons.
He could say you cried too much or slept too much.
So it was a terrible place.
But it was built on the idea that they would help people.
It just turned into something awful.
And the idea behind TALA, as they call it, is short for Trans-Allegheny Lunatic Asylum.
The hospital itself was built in a way that was supposed to be pleasant and aesthetically pleasing, which would help these people get better, but it didn't.
It became quickly overcrowded.
And it was shortly after the Civil War.
I mean, it was in the process of being built during the Civil War, and it opened in the later part of the 1800s.
And it didn't last too long as a hospital.
It became overcrowded and just filled with criminally insane and people who just had maybe addiction issues.
It was absolutely horrible.
It's one of those places that we talked about, like the Queen Mary.
The spirit of a little girl is supposed to be their resident spirit there.
Her name is Lily.
And through all my research, I couldn't find anything about a little girl who lived there, who died there, as the story suggests.
But people talk to this little girl named Lily all the time.
She has her own room there when visitors come and see.
But it was a terrible, terrible place.
And one of the places that Kathy and I felt something really awful, like Mansfield Reformatory, the prison we spoke about earlier.
This place has a definite negative, dark energy that Kathy and I experienced.
And it made us scared to the point where we almost didn't continue our investigation as the historians were, and we almost didn't go back, but we did.
And yet what you were experiencing was nonspecific.
Right.
It was just a general negativity that it affected us physically.
I mean, I was getting sweaty and cold sweats and nerves and sick to my stomach.
And I didn't want to go in.
Kathy was feeling very similar.
And we couldn't explain why it affected us physically and emotionally.
But we thought it's probably best we don't go back in there.
We did collect ourselves and we did end up going back.
And the rest of the evening was fine.
We encountered all sorts of crazy things, but nothing as strong and as negative as that presence we first felt when we did our first tour there.
So these places, you got to be careful.
You have to be ready for anything.
Usually things like that don't happen, but they can, and they can really affect you physically and emotionally.
Your own state of Ohio has a lot of agriculture in it, and American agriculture is practiced on a very big scale.
One of the places in your own state, I think it is, is the Lakeville Grain Elevator, grain elevator that you checked out.
Now, I've heard of some accidents in this country involving grain where people effectively drown in it.
There can be some terrible farm accidents along those lines.
I'm guessing, but you can tell me those were the sorts of things you were checking out there.
The Lakeville Grain Elevator?
Yeah, Lakeville was an interesting place because it was privately owned and it was actually three different properties.
It was the grain elevator and the barn attached to it.
And then there was across the street was a residence that was a store.
It used to be like a stagecoach.
And we were invited there because the gentleman who owned it started experiencing some very crazy things and he couldn't quite figure out what was going on.
Now, the owner of that place, we found out, had his own incredible experiences.
He had two near-death experiences.
And after the second one was when all these things started happening at the property.
And we feel that it was his brush with death that kind of opened up some sort of portal or I hate to say portal, some sort of connection with spirits and ghosts that I think just opened things up incredibly at Lakeville.
My favorite story from that is he had a dog.
His name was David.
And not the dog.
The owner's name was David.
And he had this little dog.
And he was one of those Chinese crested dogs, those dogs that are considered the ugliest dogs in the world kind of thing.
And the dog was very old and was blind and almost nearly deaf.
And the little dog would just sit on the couch and wait for him to come home from work.
And he actually slept upstairs in the converted barn, which was his residence.
The stairs to go up to his bedroom were just wooden stairs, like very basic.
They didn't have a back to them.
They weren't carpeted.
There was no railing.
He came home one day and he found the dog was not there and he heard the dog crying.
He went upstairs and the dog was upstairs on the second floor on his bed on top of a huge pile of clothes.
That dog could not climb the steps because it couldn't see or hear.
And somehow that dog had gotten up there and the dog was kind of the signal that things were going, something was up.
So he believes that the spirits moved the dog.
That's what he believed.
He also experienced where he would see figures in the other properties over in the grain elevator.
He would hear voices.
All these things happened.
My first shadow figure, first shadow man I ever saw in my life, I saw at the Lakeville grain elevator.
And then I actually got, we had an incident where I got trapped on the elevator.
It was a very basic elevator, like a kind of a pulley system type of elevator where only one or two people could actually stand in it to get up to the top of the of the barn.
And I went up there because I was checking out the upper floor to see if we could hear or see anything, anything that was causing the noises or the shadows.
And when I tried to come down, the elevator wouldn't work.
And David was, he couldn't figure out why it wasn't working because there was nothing electronic about it.
It was just like a weight and pulley system.
And he was tugging on the rope and he goes, I don't understand.
There's nothing blocking the rope.
It was like unseen hands were holding it and it wouldn't work.
So he climbed up through a window, up on the roof and came down into where I was waiting and got in the elevator with me.
And we could not for the life of us figure out how to get this thing going.
And I was going to have to crawl outside on the outside of this building to get down.
And as we were standing there, all of a sudden, the elevator just started.
And he grabbed the rope with his hands and it burned through his hands all the way down to his bone.
He ended up having to go to the hospital.
And it started by itself.
Yes.
And it went crashing down.
And we were, if he didn't grab that the way he did, we probably would have been seriously injured.
And because he could slow it down enough, we were both, I was not injured except for jolted, but he ended up having to go to the hospital.
But that, we believe, was also caused by whatever spirits were hanging out there.
I mean, I thought you were going to tell me stories of people falling into the grain and drowning in it, but this place is very active.
There could have been.
I don't know.
We didn't find anything out about the history of anything happening like that, but we did know there was a tragic train accident nearby.
There was a fire.
We heard that it was a mob hangout in the 20s or 30s where there was some finicky stuff going on there where there was possible shootings.
But with David, some of the violent things that happened, besides the elevator incident, he had a saw blade, him and his buddy, he was sitting in his house, a round sawblade that you would put on a table saw was thrown at them and lodged itself in the wall within a couple of inches of their head.
And Kathy, the one, we investigated there twice.
And on the second investigation, we were packing up, getting ready to leave.
And I was bringing in equipment from across the street from the barn.
Kathy was in the residence with another investigator.
And of course, we didn't have our cameras turned on because we were packing up.
And all of a sudden, a shoe came flying across the room and landed right by Kathy and the other investigator.
He had a rack of shoes where the homeowner, David, kept all his shoes.
And this shoe just lifted up off of the rack and went flying across the room.
And that was witnessed by Kathy, another investigator, and a volunteer fireman who was there to kind of just check it out.
They were loaning us some cameras and things.
And, you know, of course, we didn't have anything going, but those are the kind of things that happened at Lakeville.
And we believe they were all connected to something when David had his near-death experience.
We believe that that kind of opened the world up and made the connection stronger because that was some crazy stuff.
I mean, that place was incredible.
Unfortunately, he doesn't own it anymore.
But I always wondered what happened to him after we left because that place was amazing.
And I wonder what happened to the place afterwards if those experiences kept repeating for people.
We're not sure exactly.
I know that things kept happening.
I'm not sure into what detail.
David was, I couldn't really keep in contact with him.
After I found out how he did with his hands when he got the rope burn, he didn't stay in contact too much.
I think it kind of freaked him out a little bit.
But we know that somebody else who's recently bought the property, they have invited us to come back because they said that the hauntings have continued, but they haven't gone into detail of what it is that's happening.
But they're very anxious for us to come back and see what else we can find.
That's a place we will proceed with caution.
Well, yes, I think you need to.
I was about to ask you this.
This is a question I've never asked anybody before, but it just came into my mind with you.
Do you both take out insurance about things that could happen to you?
Do you have insurance?
I have health insurance.
I don't know if it covers demon attacks.
God.
You know, because I'm not sure what policy you might get or with whom or what it might cost.
But by the sounds of this, you might need it because the two of you clearly are not afraid to put yourselves in harm's way.
Has there ever been an investigation where you've come out of it?
Maybe that last one we talked about was the one and you thought, okay, I've got to take a bit of a break from this now.
Have you ever had to just, you know, clear your head for a while?
Well, the one residential that I did when I had that attachment, I did.
I stepped back for a little bit and I didn't want to do any more residentials after that because that kind of freaked me out.
And when Kathy got the attachment, and we won't say the name, the Mansfield prison thing, but anybody who reads my first book can hear the whole story because it's all in there.
That was so bad.
Kathy didn't even really go into detail about how bad it really was.
This spirit, ghost, whatever it was that was attached itself to Kathy was threatening me.
We had it on tape.
He was calling me an F&B and I'm going to kill you and things like that to me, but not to Kathy.
And I mean, she— Do you think it was being protective of her?
I think it was jealous of me the time I spent with Kathy.
I think he was in love with Kathy, honestly.
But it was violently shaking her bed and appearing as this huge, dark shadow figure and then whispering in her granddaughter's ears.
And that's when Kathy finally said, you know what, I think you're right.
This thing is bad.
It was not a good thing.
And it would follow us everywhere.
So that was one where I said, if we ever go back to Mansfield, we need to, you know, I don't think we should mess with him.
I don't think we should try and talk to him.
We would be in another state on another investigation in Pennsylvania or St. Louis, and we would be running our recorders and his voice would come over.
And it's like he would be first and foremost and not let any other spirits come through.
So yeah, it was definitely something that made us think, maybe we shouldn't do this, especially when you have children.
My children have been exposed to this their whole lives.
So they're kind of used to it, but there's things that I won't let them, I don't want them coming to Mansfield with me when I do a nighttime ghost hunt.
Well, I mean, that's a wise and responsible thing to do.
As far as you know, the film crew who worked there, it would be interesting to investigate whether they had any experiences.
You know, I've been dying to find out, but I have not been able to get any response from anybody who worked there.
I know it was filmed at another prison and then on a movie set, but when the Shawshank Redemption was filmed, it was still a working prison.
So a lot of the outdoor shots were filmed there.
The indoor shots where you see the actual prison, that is not Mansfield because the prison, the cells themselves are not set up that way.
Andy Dufran could never have escaped from Mansfield the way he escaped from the Shawshank prison because the cells are not set up that way.
I always wondered, you know, as we come to the end of this conversation, the poster that he spent years digging behind that poster to get out of Shawshank prison.
And I've seen that movie so many times.
I love that movie.
How was he able to put the poster back so perfectly so it looked as if somebody'd stuck it on from the outside when the awful governor of the prison came in to see if he was there and he wasn't?
I just that was the one piece of it that didn't work for me.
Maybe it was a spirit.
Good question.
Maybe it was a spirit.
Maybe he just lifted it up like a curtain.
But you know, in Mansfield, if he would have burrowed his way out of one cell, he would have just ended up in another.
Oh, God.
The cells, the way the cell blocks are formed at Mansfield, they're not against the wall, the outer wall.
They're together inside.
So he would have gone from one cell right into another.
That's called artistic license, I think.
Hey, listen, we've done very well with the technology here, Teresa, and I know that Kathy had to leave us because she's driving right now.
Your full names I never actually gave on the introduction.
It's Teresa, is it Argy?
Argy, yes.
Argy, and it's Kathy Webber.
And if people want to read about you and your work, and I really do recommend that they do, is there a one-stop shop website where they could go and take a look?
Yes, they can find us on hauntedhousewives.com or hauntedhousewives on Facebook.
And then you can find links to all our other social media, the Willoughby Ghost Walk or my personal website.
But we try to update everything on Facebook or on our website as soon as we can.
We've got a book tour coming up for our new book, which will be out probably, I'd say, in the next two weeks, hopefully, maybe sooner.
And so that book will be available on Amazon and certain Barnes and Noble's.
Well, probably by the time this is heard, then this is being recorded slightly in advance.
The book will probably be out by then in the U.S. Okay.
What's the book called?
By the end of August.
The book should be out by the—the And we have found love stories or ghost stories that all revolve around a theme of love.
But it's not all romantic love.
It's all different kinds of love and obsession and devotion.
So we're very, very proud of that.
And your listeners in England will be happy that there is a story from England represented in there and Ireland as well as the United States.
So we're very proud of that.
And that's coming out shortly.
That's Kathy and I's first collaboration together as writers.
Kathy also has a book called Haunted Willoughby, Ohio, which focuses on a lot of the places that we go on the ghost walk.
And then my first book is called America's Most Haunted, Secrets of Famous Paranormal Places.
And anybody who wants to know more about Trans-Allegheny Lunatic Asylum or Mansfield Prison or Willoughby Cole, those are all featured in that book.
And that's kind of the adventures of Kathy and Teresa, that book.
The haunted house of Eyes are all over that book.
And many of our top investigations there.
That was the greatest selling two minutes that I've ever heard in all of the shows that I've done, in all of the years that I've done them.
Well done.
Thank you very much.
Give my love and regards to Kathy as well.
And thank you very much for taking time.
Maybe we'll try and get the pair of you on my radio show as well, perhaps to talk about the new book.
I'll get my people to talk to your people, as they say.
Thank you very much.
We'll send you a copy of the book.
Just let us know.
We'll send you a copy of the book.
We'd love to come back.
Thank you so much for reaching out and having us on.
And I hope that we get to speak with you again.
Yes, I really enjoyed this.
Thank you very much for telling me some stories that have made my flesh tingle somewhat.
Thank you, Teresa.
Take care.
All right.
Take care.
Bye-bye.
Bye-bye.
And of course, I'll put a link to the haunted housewives and their work on my website, theunexplained.tv.
Thank you very much to you for being part of this show.
Look out for more great guests coming very soon here on the website, theunexplained.tv, where the podcast always resides, or whichever podcasting portal you happen to use.
And remember, if you think it's been a long time since you last got a show, always check the website because the show may be there, even if it hasn't appeared yet in other places.
So go to the website, theunexplained.tv.
It is your one-stop shop.
Thank you very much for being part of this.
My name is Howard Hughes.
I am in London.
This has been The Unexplained, and please stay safe, stay calm, and above all, please stay in touch.
Thank you very much.
Take care.
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