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July 7, 2015 - The Unexplained - Howard Hughes
01:09:03
Edition 212 - Linda Moulton Howe Update

We check in with Linda Moulton Howe - leading researcher and investigative journalist in NewMexico, USA...

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Across the UK, across continental North America and around the world, on the internet, by webcast and by podcast.
My name is Howard Hughes and this is The Unexplained.
Coming to you today from an absolutely sweltering London.
Now I know some of you don't like me talking about the weather, but on this occasion I've got to.
Because today I've been down to the British Parliament covering a news story there and came back in heat of about 95 degrees Fahrenheit, around about 35 or so degrees centigrade.
A very, very incredibly hot and humid day.
And the kind of day when people just expire on the subway system here, the underground.
And boy, I think I nearly joined them at one point.
Here where I'm recording this, it's more than 100 degrees Fahrenheit, and that's just in my little booth here.
So you may hear me occasionally hears this noise.
Can you hear that?
Maybe not.
I might have to turn on a fan just occasionally to cool down.
Because let me tell you, this is no joke.
When we get heat waves here, which is very, very rare, I think this is the hottest day for 10 years, they can be held because of the humidity.
So if I don't sound quite like me today, now you understand.
And if you do hear a fan running in the background, I'll try not to put it on, but you know what that's about.
Thank you very much for your emails.
No shout-outs this time.
We're going to have Linda Moulton Howe from EarthFiles.com with an update on just about everything coming soon.
Thank you to Adam Cornwell, my webmaster, a creative hotspot, for his hard work and for keeping the site turning over.
If you want to get in touch with me, go to my website, theunexplained.tv, and there.
You can leave me a donation or you can send me an email.
I'm going to do shout-outs and address your emails in a future edition.
I just want to address a couple of things, though, that have come out from emails in the last day or two.
Number one, somebody emailed again to say that I was interrupting the guests.
All I will say in my own defense about that is I will only interrupt guests who sound to be making outlandish claims and I need to make them absolutely clear about what they're saying.
Just in case I missed it or got it wrong or you may have missed it, we have to get them to clarify it.
And sometimes you've got to interrupt them.
And sometimes you've got to keep them on point.
Otherwise a conversation, if you were doing this, will go all over the place.
Some people are naturally gifted and they keep the conversation on point.
I'm talking about guests.
Let's leave me out of this because, you know, I'm no great judge of my abilities, whatever they may be.
Who knows?
But guests sometimes will keep completely on point and they'll stay on message and sometimes they will veer off on different paths.
And for it to be a continuous narrative, that can be a problem sometimes.
So that's why we do that.
So I hope that's sort of dealt with.
Garnett Schulhauser, previous guest, case in point.
He was making some pretty outlandish claims.
Quite a few of you didn't agree with them.
Quite a few of you suggested that he might need to get himself checked out one way and another.
Now, we went through all of that in the interview, if you listened to it, and I know some of you turned him off.
And I asked him, are you sure of your own mental health when you claim that somebody from the other side, in the guise of a tramp, appeared to you and revealed various truths?
This man had been a lawyer at the highest level, a corporate lawyer, and sounded pretty rational to me, had the full backing of a loving family by the sounds of it.
Is what he's saying completely correct?
Is it all true?
I don't know.
But I think it was worth putting out there, and a few of you had requested him.
And we don't always put scientists and serious, you know, people qualified in their fields here on the unexplained.
Sometimes we put people on who have a story to tell, and the story may be correct, or it may be a story that you want to ponder over, or you may instantly dismiss it.
And let me tell you, the email reflects all of those positions.
That's why we had Garnet Schulhauser on, and I think even though he was controversial and what he was saying was outlandish, if I had to make the decision again, I would probably put him on here.
This time around, we're on, well, maybe ground that you will more easily agree with.
Linda Moulton Howe from EarthFiles.com coming soon.
If you'd like to make a donation to this show, that will be gratefully received.
Donations tailing off again, and we do need them to keep going here.
So go to the website, theunexplained.tv.
Follow the link, and you can do that if you can.
And if you have recently, my deepest thanks for that.
Same place to go, theunexplained.tv, if you want to send me an email, a message, a suggestion, whatever.
Let's get to Albuquerque, New Mexico.
Let me turn on the fan just for a second here to cool down.
And let's get on Linda Moulton Howe from EarthFiles.com.
Oh, Linda, how nice to have you back on here, Linda.
Well, it's great to be with you, Howard.
You're one of my favorite voices on this planet.
You two.
You know, you're a voice of sanity, and what you are is a voice of rigor in a world where nobody really bothers to check anything anymore.
Boy, isn't it becoming a big problem?
And I keep cautioning some of my colleagues that the internet is now such a mixture of people trying to make money from clicks, and therefore they will put up any headline to get clicks because they're trying to generate money.
And it has absolutely nothing to do with journalism.
It doesn't have anything to do with facts.
And that puts a burden on me, you, George Knapp, anybody who is trying to do actual, hard-based, factual journalism.
Because now, if we get something that looks serious, we literally have to try to track down the author, the source, or at least that's what I'm doing.
And you know, Howard, in just the last couple of months, without going into names or the problems of litigation or anything, but this is a process that I have done and found on the other end, zero.
And just to give you an example, I was sent an internet news story.
It looked like it was absolutely legitimate.
And I believe the source was Canadian.
It was like a Canadian Calgary or something.
And it was so astounding that I sat there thinking, if this is true, it had to do with archaeology, it had to do with finding extraterrestrial bodies, all of this.
I thought this is way over the top.
So I spent two full days off and on trying to find the author.
Normally, in, and I hope your listeners will value this, when you look at CNN and Fox and MSNBC and ABC, CBS, and the BBC and The Guardian, it'll always say correspondent or reported by and a date.
And the truth is that if you contact any of those major media organizations by phone and you ask for that reporter, 99.5% of the time, you should at least have a switchboard or somebody who they react, and that person, just a moment, and you know that they're working there.
When I spent two days trying to track down the author of this very strange Canadian report, I finally got a hold of a person.
And I said, I wondered if you could please give me the date, the location, and what the source of the information on your story is.
And Howard, it was a female, and she had no answers for me on those basic questions.
And she said, I'll have to get back to you on that.
And I said, well, right, these are all the red flags.
And I've only taken time to tell you this because we are now at a point where we have to do this on almost every story that is not from what we'll call the recognized BBC, Guardian, New York Times, and so forth.
And this is a big problem for the planet because when we realize that people are trying to make money and they're doing it on sensational headlines, when we do have something sensational to report based on facts, it's going to be even that more difficult.
So if I was a conspiracy theorist, and heaven forbid, you know, would I be a conspiracy theorist, I would say that maybe there is somebody out there planning some of this.
So if you put enough smoke out there and you install a few mirrors, then you can probably obfuscate enough to stop any truth there may be getting out there.
Yes, and, you know, that was actually, this is an issue that has been raised in the Jaime Massan event down in Mexico City on Cinco de Mayo, May 5th, 2015.
That was just in a nutshell, that was the story about two Kodachrome color slides that Kodak had confirmed were 1947-ish vintage, and they had been found in the possessions of a woman, a family, who had all passed.
And these two strange Kodachrome slides were found with what looked like a very strange body.
And people back east and all over the United States, I'm not going to get into personalities.
I'm just going to say that this was reported to some researchers about, I think by now, a year ago.
And then little bits of news started filtering out without anything to back it up, but just that Roswell, New Mexico, July 1947, extraterrestrial or extraterrestrials are on these color codachrome slides.
And the next thing we learned is that Jaime Massan, who is a well-meaning guy in Mexico City, has been working there now for 30-some years in television and has his own company now and does reports largely on things that would be in the high strangeness category.
And the next thing I know, I get a news release along with a lot of other people saying that Jaime Massan was going to present these slides in Mexico City on Cinco de Mayo to move the Roswell crash further, that it was definite and these were extraterrestrial bodies and the world would have the first chance to look at them.
And I interviewed Jaime in February and he told me then that he was working with a forensic, basically an anatomist and a pathologist who were looking at the codochrome slides to measure the bones and the body and all of it and to see if it was human or not.
Meanwhile, at about the same time, February to March to April, there came other news on the internet again saying that this was definitely a mummy from a Southwestern museum.
And Jaime and everybody associated with the research were attacked, I mean viciously.
And Whitley Streeber and Jim Mars and I and others were looking at this and thinking, the way this went down, it was upon the announcement of the Cinco de Mayo event in Mexico City that Jaime was trying to organize.
And about two or three weeks after that announcement comes the attack that the 47 slide is a mummy and that these people attacking can prove it.
And as I talk to you today on July 1st, the series of events that have unfolded are so bizarre, more bizarre than the original Kodakrum story in this way.
The 1927 U.S. Interior Department archaeological report suddenly emerges in a FOIA, a Freedom of Information Act,
and it has stories about an archaeologist named Palmer showing a photograph, showing two photographs in this original alleged 1927 document, which I have no reason to doubt that it's legitimate.
But, Howard, what you're looking at in the Palmer photos does not match the 1947 Kodachrome slides, and yet it was put out on the internet.
This is the answer, and that this, which doesn't resemble anything like the 47 Kodachrome, it shows a body, but they don't look the same at all.
So it was a weather balloon then.
Well, I think, and here's now what is fascinating.
It says that this Palmer archaeology discovery was sent to the Mesa Verde, Arizona Museum, where it was on display.
Jump to the Jaime story and everything that they were doing in presenting their body, I and Whitley and others started trying to find out in the Mesa Verde history, was there ever a mummy there?
And I got a call from some people on the East Coast that said, Linda, this was definitely, this is the mummy that was in the Million Dollar Museum in White City, New Mexico.
And it was that this kodachrome color slide was identical.
This is what they, it was a phone call from somebody well known, and I'm staying away from names, well known in the field.
Linda, it is definitely a mummy.
So what I did was I called down to Carlsbad, which is not very, six, eight miles from where White City is.
And I talked with people in the White City.
Now it is like a travel agency that people come and go to go to Carlsbad because it sees being a museum in the 2008 year when the owners, the whites, three generations from Charlie White,
who had purchased a whole bunch of stuff from Rua Doso in the early 50s, this is very important, to set up this museum in southern New Mexico, the white city, that was his name, Charlie White.
Rua Doso had been tied in to Roswell, retrieval operations, crash of an airplane.
Rua Doso is straight west of Roswell.
Rua Doso has always had a mysterious link to everything that was happening about crashed UFOs, retrievals of bodies, the RAF Army Airfield, oh, all the things about Rua Doso.
And I'm talking with these people, and they say that the original museum came from quote-unquote museum artifacts in Rio Doso.
And I said, is any of the relatives who were involved in that museum alive?
And they said, yeah, the great-grandson of Charlie White lives in Carlsbad.
And I talked with him.
And he said, there's a photo.
He said, we had a small 12-inch long.
Now, at this point, this is really becoming interesting to me because I'm talking to somebody.
He said that he played with this quote-unquote alien body in a museum glass case that his great-grandfather had gotten from Rua Doso and that it was 12 inches long.
The photograph that I got had a ruler next to it.
It's the strangest little body I personally have ever seen on anything.
It doesn't look human.
I have no idea what it is.
But it was in this case going back that a man who is now in his late 40s played with when he was a kid and said that his great-grandfather, Charlie White, had set up that museum sometime in the 50s from Ruadoso and that this little body that is so strange,
they had a German, a German tourist walked in there in the 1990s and said, you should put a placard in here.
That's an alien extraterrestrial body.
They thought that was funny.
So they put a placard in their White City Museum that was there for about 20 years or 15 years.
It said, alien body question mark, a German tourist came into our museum and gave a date and said this is an extraterrestrial body.
So we are putting this placard in next to this body that has been here since Charlie White, the great-grandfather and founder of White City, got this from this Rua Doso Museum.
So I have discovered a second alien body that is 12 inches long, while the Palmer alleged mummy from 1927 was at least 29 inches long.
And the Kodachrome slide, according to the medical people looking at it, said that it was about 39 or 40 inches long.
So now we've got three different bodies, one that may actually be truly extraterrestrial, but God only knows what this 12-inch weird body.
And anybody listening who's interested, all of this is at earthfiles.com.
I did a full story after an interview with Trey T-R-E-Y-Y-White, the grandson.
And now it gets weirder.
He said that in 2008, when the White City Museum family, including Trey White, decided that they no longer wanted to keep this museum going that had been there for so long.
And they called an auction house.
I've talked with the person, auction house who went to White City to handle the auction.
And she says, and Trey White says, that a few days before the announced auction people were supposed to get there to take all this museum stuff and hold this formal auction,
get this, two men in black suits, white shirts, black ties came to the museum and talked to the firsthand.
I'm getting this firsthand from the auction manager and to Trey White and said that they were from a government agency.
And sadly, as I talk to you now, neither the auction house nor Trey White knows exactly who or what agency.
And they thought there was some paper.
That's what I need, is a paper trail on this, that there was a paper that was exchanged, but they can't find it that would nail the date that they came in.
But this is what the two men said to the auction manager and to Trey White.
We want to take this 12-inch body, and we want to do some forensic investigation.
So we want to remove it from your auction now.
And they gave, they handed over the 12-inch body to whoever these men in the black suits were.
Can you believe this?
And all of this started with my trying to find out why is there a difference in the Palmer photo?
Is there, and could there possibly have been a Kodachrome slide looking, we call it mummy question mark, alien question mark at the White City Museum.
Could there have been a matching photo at the Mesa Verity Museum in Arizona?
And so we discover this 12-inch body that two agents from the government came in before the 2008 auction.
So the story you started with was a story that remained very hard to verify.
And at that point, a lot of us would have given up.
A lot of us would probably have closed the file and said, not worth wasting any more time on the phone on this one.
But you found something even weirder.
Yeah, exactly.
And that's why Whitley Streeber did an interview with me and with Jaime on the phone in which Whitley put an unknown country, this is the most unique interview I have ever done.
And it's Linda Boltonhow discovering a 12-inch placard saying alien body question mark while trying to track down mummies and aliens on the Cinco de Bayo event.
I mean, this is amazing.
And today, July 1st, it's my understanding that Jaime Massan in Mexico City is still working with medical people, and Whitley is convinced that there is something at least strange.
Now, can we just agree on that this morning or your night, that on July 1st, there is still something strange about the body in the two kodachrome slides.
That's all that exists.
And when the original story came out, it was that there might be two non-human bodies.
That's not true.
It's the same body.
One kodachrome slide is not very well focused.
There's only one clearly focused slide.
And that is being used.
That slide is being used.
Now, you and I and probably a lot of people listening probably have exactly this question.
Is any medical expert anywhere on the planet able to identify non-human characteristics in bones and skin from a 1947 Kodachrome slide?
I don't know, but I personally am of the feeling that Jaime has done some very legitimate comparison and anatomy, comparison work on that slide.
And he has enough question marks from two doctors, of which they're going to be doing more, I think it's this week or next.
And because there are questions about what this body in the Kodachrome slide is, when you jump over to the Palmer Archaeological Dig or to something that was apparently in the Mesa Verde Museum,
the length or the, what shall I say, the length of those bodies does seem to be distinctly different than the Kodachrome slide from 47.
So even though the web, MuFon, MuFon has been trying to excommunicate everybody involved in the research, even though the web basically attacked, and that is the question,
was it a counterintelligence move to muddy the waters on Kodachrome slide one and two, that may literally be a legitimate hiding in plain sight photograph of something that was non-human and somehow ended up in that photo?
Is it a counterintelligence operation to muddy the waters?
And now it is so successful that the attacks on the web have dismissed it completely 100% as the Mesa Verde Palmer archaeological find of this mummy in 19, I think it's 27.
And yet, Howard, I have just described for you, I have no axe to grind in this.
I'm trying to understand the facts.
There are different looking Bodies.
There are different sized bodies.
So, right there, you have a mystery of one archaeological discovery being pushed as the answer when it does not appear to be an answer at all to what was in the Million Dollar Museum in White City, and it does not seem to match the size of the one that Jaime Massan presented in Mexico City.
And so now we have three layers deep of mysteries with the question, did counterintelligence kick in to muddy the waters when the first news release went out in January, February about what Jaime Massan was going to do in Mexico City?
This is amazing stuff, Linda.
I mean, I can almost see Columbo slapping his forehead here saying, oh, now we've got three, now we've got and got three bodies.
And the weirdest part of this story, though, the men in the dark suits.
Now, you know that I've had my own little encounter with men in dark suits and a dark car.
So we know, we think we know this kind of thing goes on.
Oh, God, yes, it does.
You know, that's the weirdest thing here.
Who were they?
Why were they on the scene now or very recently?
And the people who told you this have no great reason to lie to you.
Oh, no.
One was a very straightforward manager of the auction house, remembered everything very well because I'm telling you the stuff that was in that million-dollar museum in White City.
Oh, I wish that I had understood.
It was old merry-go-round parts.
It was tele.
I mean, this was a museum.
This was not kitsch.
This was not let's pretend.
This was really old historic stuff in that million-dollar museum.
And here in one of those glass cases, was this 12-inch, just the most bizarre body.
If you go to EarthFiles, I did that story in May.
And so when you go to EarthFiles.com, my news website, the top story, July 1, is about series.
And you just scroll down and you'll get to May and you'll see photos of a body and you'll get to go into the interview and see what the photograph was at the White Museum.
And it is truly bizarre.
And Howard, underscoring the importance of 47 in all of this, is that Rua Doso, which is where Charlie White, the great-grandfather of Trey White, got his original unbelievable museum stuff, that this little 12-inch body was most likely in that collection.
That's what Trey White told me, that that was from there.
And Ruidoso was sitting right west of Roswell through the entire 40s of coming and going, of glowing white spheres, UFOs, all of this stuff that was happening after World War II when White Sands and Project Paperclip brought over all of those German scientists to develop a rocket program here for the United States.
And here in White Sands, which is in the same area as Roswell-Ruedoso, they're a little bit north, but it's that same history, that same region.
And back 10, 15 years ago, I was interviewing people and talking about when the first UFOs, and I'm using that in the classic sense, UFO is an unidentified flying object in the UK about 10 or 15 years ago.
Your government switched over to UAP, unidentified aerial phenomena, probably to take pressure off of all the FOIA requests for UFOs, but they're one in the same, UFO and UAP.
And that when the Army Air Force, it was the Roswell Army Air Force Base, when they had people who were involved in security, we had Navy,
a lot of people don't realize this, the Navy Research Lab of the United States, which has always been involved in the highest of the highest classified research work, and the National Research Lab, NRL, also worked hand in hand with the Atomic Energy Commission, the AEC.
Everything I'm saying was I'm talking about the 40s.
The war ended in 1945 with the dropping of the bombs in Japan, and the Atomic Energy Commission and the Manhattan Project all grew out of the development of those two bombs and the Navy, not the, we didn't have an Air Force until 1947 when the Army and the Air Force split in two.
The Navy had been working with the AEC during that period of time and people would be probably very surprised to learn that the Navy had this very, very classified installation there at White Sands.
All of this comes to bear that when the local newspapers in Alamogordo, Roswell, Las Cruces, all of those towns that are around White Sands and Roswell itself,
newspaper articles started about 46, 1947, about, and they called it, then the headlines, unusual phenomena.
That was what it was being called, phenomena.
And this made headlines.
And how was this phenomena described?
Silver disks or white glowing spheres that were accompanying the launches of the White Sands missiles in the tests that were being conducted by all the German scientists, including von Braun.
And when you realize that that was preceding the disk crash between Corona and Roswell in the first week of July 1947, you realize that from the war on,
floo fighters in the war, all kinds of things happening around the desert area, Missouri, the fact that Cape Girardeau, Missouri is, I think most researchers are convinced, that 1941,
that something came down in Cape Girardeau, Missouri that was so important that what was called a neutronic N-E-U, T-R-O-N-I-C, like neutrons in an atom, a neutronic propulsion device,
this is the label in a Majestic 12 report, was retrieved from the Cape Girardo, Missouri UFO crash in which there were alien extraterrestrial bodies alive and dead, that this was transferred where the neutronic propulsion device, according to these leaked documents, was transferred to Robert Oppenheimer.
What was Robert Oppenheimer doing in the early 1940s?
Working on the bomb.
Secretly, secretly setting up the Manhattan Project in Los Alamos on what had been a boys' ranch, and they so successfully covered up the tracks of the development of the atomic bomb in northwestern New Mexico that the locals say they never knew.
They did not have a clue until those bombs, the first one was tested in July 1945, and then the two bombs were dropped in Japan in August of 1945.
And this shows you, Howard, that probably in the UK as well, that events were taking place throughout the entire 1940s, and that 1947 Roswell Corona is just an arbitrary line that was drawn in the sand, I think, by our government.
And that agents in black suits, white shirts, and black ties, whether under Hoover or whoever, they were operating all over the place, trying to keep all of these revelations about their own documents, call them.
This is not Linda, Howard, or anybody now.
This is the documents from the 40s and the 50s that have come out and been leaked.
They were called celestial, C-E-L-E-S-T-I-L, celestial beings, celestial craft, and then by the end of the 40s, extra-terrestrial biological entities.
Now, that seems to me to be pretty black and white and clear.
So where are we at with this?
It seems to me that what you've just talked about is classically the way that security services work to cover up things they don't want you to know about.
And that may have happened with the two colour slides and the differentiation between those, one of them not being as clear as the other.
But then you brought a third factor into the equation, this other body that had been in the museum that nobody could have known about and that somebody tried to head off at the past, but you still found out about it.
And you found out, this is the beauty of it for any journalist.
You found out about it in the routine business of making phone calls to people not connected, we don't think, to each other and who have no reason to tell you what we call over here porky pies, which is rhyming slang for lies.
It's right.
It's the slugging work of actually being an investigative reporter.
If people knew if you're going to do it right and you're going to get as much first-hand information as you can and you're going to verify paper chases if you can, it is slugging work.
It is sometimes 100 phone calls.
It is waiting for months for people to try to go through attics and basements and try to find paper.
It is slugging work.
And that is, this is sad to me, that in this digital age in which there's not even, I don't think, Howard, that you would call it even a 24-hour news cycle.
It is minute by minute, hour by hour news cycle now.
And you have got reporters who care less about facts in which everybody's competing to get news out first.
And sadly, when people throw headlines up for money, this is not journalism and that we are finding lots and lots of retractions are having to be made because there is a rush to get something out in these minute to minute, hour to hour, instead of once upon a time, at least 24-hour news cycle.
And if people jumped into my shoe, your shoe, or anybody and saw what we have to do to even verify a lot of things, then you would say, wow, we really ought to put some sort of,
I don't know how to say it, in the digital age, would it be fair to say that a headline on a story shouldn't go up until it had 20 hours of vetting or something?
Because you can suggest that, Linda.
Who would do the vetting?
I don't know.
The editor of the internet, you're right.
We would need bots to go around and verify And really do fact-checking.
But the good side is that every time that I and Jim Mars and others, when we actually do the research and the shoe leather and you find something like what I found at the Million Dollar Museum, it just reinforces for me that if you do the work, you often will find something completely unexpected that brings an entire new angle and facet.
And it's like trying to solve murder mysteries when people assume in day one it's X and by day 30 it's Y and by day 60 it's QQ.
That is the world we are living in and we all have to have a really, when you look at the web and you see a hysterical headline or a aliens have landed headline or Russia is going to nuke Europe headline or whatever they are, the first thing to think is, oh, somebody's trying to make money today on a headline on the web.
And then wait and do one of the things that I do, and you may do this too, and I would offer this to your viewers as almost fail-safe, anything that seems, if your mind says, wow, could this be true, then go up to the Google bar or whatever your search bar is and type in news about whatever that subject is.
And if you do not come up with something that is from a media outlet you trust, I'd say 99% of the time it's somebody trying to make click money.
When there's real news and something is breaking, it's going to be in hundreds of news offices around the world, whether it's day or night.
But it's not just Linda, it's not just people on Penny and Tutton's websites who are trying to do this for a quick buck.
You know, this is being done by big online media organizations now, and it happens all the time with regular, I mean, we could have a philosophical debate that there isn't time for, but I see this all the time now, and it makes me fume.
Where they will have a headline on a story and they'll say something outright.
I mean, it's too hard for me to try and remember one of them that I've seen this week, but I've seen them all the time.
They have these outrageous headlines and you think, could that be true?
And now I think when I click on the story, I'm going to find it's something else.
That is the way that it's done because they've just, by duping me into look at the copy, duped me into looking at it and they've got a click.
That's how it works now.
Exactly.
And that's what we've got to worry about.
But what you've got there with the 12-inch body, the beast in the museum, and the two men in black coats with white shirts and the people at the auctioneers, you've got a story.
Yes, right.
Yep, and we put it on Earth Files and on Dreamland, and it is real, and Jaime knows about it.
But unfortunately, that little 12-inch alien body from the Million Dollar Museum doesn't help on the approximately 40-inch long body on that Kodachrome slide.
And therefore, the mystery for you and for the listeners, I don't think that the answer of the mummy from the Palmer Archaeological Dig is the answer yet either.
And that, to me, makes this all worth paying more attention, doing some historic research, and keeping doing historic research and keep your mind open a little bit that there may actually have been a reason for why that strange body ended up on those Kodachrome slides and the other.
But much more important than all of it, and the bit that maybe it's just because I'm a hard-bitten old journo, the most important thing is why did the guys in the black suits take an interest in this?
Why this?
Why now?
That's right.
And you were told that by somebody without a reason, as far as we know, unless somebody is trying to massively and intricately set you up and make you look like a fool.
And I don't really think that's happening.
Well, that's where Trey White talking.
That's when you go to people and talk to them about their real history.
He played with, that was his verb, but I know what he means.
It was his great-grandfather's museum, and he was a kid, and he was very interested in this little body in the glass case, and he had touched it.
And so that's a testimony from somebody now in their 40s that this little body next to the 12-inch ruler was there when he was a child.
And if you want to hide something in plain sight, well, we know about this.
In this day and age, it's one thing we do know about.
If you want to hide something in plain sight, what do you do?
You put a label on it saying, here's an alien body.
And then nobody's going to ask any questions about it.
Or this is a mummy.
Who is going to pay attention if it says this is a mummy?
Unless, of course, you get to the stage.
There could have been an alien body hiding in plain sight as a mummy.
Well, yeah, exactly.
And then, you know, you get interest in this from some other source.
And maybe they were interested because up to that point it was safe.
But at the point when it's all sold off and moved, then people start to question.
And if you're an auctioneer, that's what you do.
The provenance of a thing.
Where does it come from?
Who owned it?
How was it found?
Lots of questions.
And welcome to the last 36 years of my professional career trying to get to the bottom of who, what, why, how, and so forth on animal mutilations where it began that led to the human abductions,
that led to government cover-up, that led to all kinds of whistleblowers talking about their own work in various military and intel operations having to do with keeping the media and the public away from the truth that we're not alone in this universe and that extraterrestrial biological entities by their own definition have been coming and going on this planet.
And the Longest time that I've ever been given was by a man who retired from the Defense Intelligence Agency and told me almost with weariness, I'll never forget that, like, they have all this information and they never can tell anybody.
He said, Linda, we have at least three competing geopolitical, territorial, conflicting extraterrestrial biological entities that have been coming to, collecting and harvesting genetic material from and terraforming this planet for at least 270 million years.
And my first sentence to him was, well, that's before the time of the dinosaurs.
And his shocking reply, Linda, one of those groups mixed and matched genes and made the dinosaurs.
So if you are talking with whistleblowers before they die and they tell you this is what they've been exposed to working for our agency or somebody working for MI5 or DI-55 or DI-52 in the UK,
and they've been exposed to this, and you say, well, what proof could any human ever have on this planet if extraterrestrials communicate they've been coming here for 270 million years because we're on the Petri dish and how would we ever get objective factual reality on a statement like that?
And he looked at me and he said, Linda, we have the proof, but if I told you, it would endanger your life.
Oh, my God.
So in other words, I could tell you, but I'd have to kill you.
Well, I'm not going to be a lot of people.
And the thing about it is that my feeling in 2015 is that this the Doberman pincer, that's the way I think of it, attack dog approach to keeping the public and the media away since World War II when your Prime Minister Churchill and our President Truman and General Eisenhower apparently came to a consensus.
And that was a wartime.
They were dealing with the Nazis.
The Nazis were alleged to have silver discs rising up out of Piena Monday.
That wasn't well known to the public, but it was definitely known to intel agencies.
They didn't really fully understand what they were dealing with, but they knew that Foo fighters in England, on the German border, England, how to say this, England is an island.
And what I started to say was on the German border, meaning that the Royal Air Force had flown over some place where there was a border and they had reported that a Foo fighter, the glowing sphere, was making circular motions around their RAF fighter in the air.
This came in letters that were released by the Ministry of Defense.
But wasn't that Denmark?
Because if you hit the North Sea from here, you go southeast a bit, then you hit Denmark, and then you hit Germany.
I seem to half remember hearing that.
Yes, it was something like that because it was a Royal Air Force fighter that was near a German border and reported back, and this was in this discussion that was part of the release in the Ministry of Defense papers about 2006, 2007, somewhere in there, 2008.
And it was that the Royal Air Force fighter was reporting this, and the MOD release was that Churchill and Eisenhower were talking about this what was essentially extraterrestrial technology and that it was Churchill who said to Eisenhower,
we must keep this from the public and the media for at least 50 years because this could collapse religions and all the things we've always heard.
But of course, the 50 years has passed now.
But that 50 years would have expired around 93, 1993, 94, somewhere in there.
And we're at 2015.
And we know that government agents have played very rough ball with people going back to 47, that Mac Brazil, I heard this directly from the radio announcer, that Mac Brazil walked into a Roswell radio station because he knew the radio broadcaster.
And I'm trying to, was his name, Jordan, Frank Jordan, I think was the radio guy.
And Mac Brazil, the rancher, who had discovered all of the strange debris on his ranch and had gone to see the sheriff.
And this was the weekend of July 4th.
And that's what brought out the intel from Roswell.
And they gathered up every piece of everything.
And it was at that week that Mac Brazzle went into the radio station to see his friend.
And now I'm getting the story directly from the radio announcer to me.
And he said, Mac came into my studio and he slumped his back against the wall.
And Linda, he slid all the way to the floor.
Now, most humans know that gesture if you're exhausted, depressed, whatever, or even sick, that everybody probably at some point in their life has done something close to that when they were really, really stressed to the max.
And he said, here was Mac Brazil, and the radio guy knew, of course, about the headline, flying disc crashes on ranch.
That had been plastered, and that's what was supposed to have been a mistake, a leak.
And the government had to come in very rapidly and plug the leak, and that's where the weather balloon and the money.
And lean on people like him very hard, yes.
The rancher in front of his longtime friend, sliding down the wall to the floor.
And the radio announcer said, and he looked up at me from the floor and said, they aren't gray.
They were green.
I'm not kidding.
And you got that from the primary source.
Yeah.
And he said that Mac Brazil, he had never in his life seen his friend looking so destroyed.
And they had a discussion, a little bit of a discussion, about bodies that were not human.
But that Mac Brazil was so broken by whatever, whoever had talked to him.
And remember, there was this other fact.
This is a fact.
And nobody has ever gotten the straight story from Mac Brazil that I know.
Because Mac Brazil shut up.
And he was a rancher that he did not talk, but except that I got that part from that radio announcer about what Mac Brazil did.
Well, it was not very long after that week in the first week in July of 1947 that Mac Brazil started driving a new truck.
It was a sign that somebody had paid him off as the bottom line.
Given him money that he did not have before.
Now, this is staggering history, and it's great that you got it from a primary source.
The history of the little body in the museum, incredible stuff.
The slides that we're not sure about.
The museum came from Ruidoso, right west of Roswell.
It's lovely the way...
Remember Alastair Cook?
Yeah.
Alastair Cook's Letter from America on radio, where he would start in one place and go on this circuitous journey and bring it all the way back to the beginning, and it would fit perfectly.
This story has waypoints all the way around it that come all the way back to what you just said.
That's right.
It is absolutely the woven textile of what has happened since World War II to this day in relationship to something that is not human interacting with this planet and your government,
our government working with Canada, New Zealand, and Australia, the World War II allies, that they have done the money that has been spent, Howard, to keep all of this from us while there was desperate attempts to understand it, get technology, back engineer it, get it into the planet's fabric of copyrights and patents.
Which we've done.
Which we've done.
Look at the progress that we've made.
I mean, if you think about where we were in, say, 1920 at the dawning of the motor car, you know, we'd had motor cars for, what, 20 years or so then?
They were very rudimentary.
Everything was rudimentary.
Look at where we are in 2015.
Are we really saying that organic progress from there happens that way?
That we can make great leaps like we've made with the silicon chip and all the rest of it.
Does that just happen?
Is that part of progress?
Or did something give us a kick up the backside to get us here?
Exactly what Philip J. Corso, who served in the Pentagon for General Arthur Trudeau, who was handpicked by President Eisenhower as a general, one of the few he really, really trusted, he was Army, to head the first Army research and development office in the Pentagon in the United States.
And these guys knew each other from World War II.
Eisenhower knew Trudeau and respected him because he had a Ph.D. in, I think it was electrical engineering.
And Trudeau knew Corso from the Italian campaign in World War II.
So these were three men who, Eisenhower reaches out to Trudeau, Trudeau reaches out to Corso because fundamental trust that had been built in the line of fire in World War II.
They trusted each other.
And Corso is handed the job to take extraterrestrial technology from the file drawers in General Trudeau's office in the Pentagon and take them to Corning Glass and to these various places that General Trudeau said to Corso,
this is extraterrestrial technology that we have retrieved from a variety of sites, and our goal is to get this patented and into American corporations to keep them out of the hands of our perceived enemies of Germany and Russia and to take it out of the government in the United States.
If the corporations are the ones developing it, the taxpaying public does not have official right to that knowledge, right?
So from the very beginning, it was a calculated strategy to get the most out of this technology that they did not understand and do it in such a way that it would be back engineered and developed in corporations under tax.
Where it's easier to keep secret.
Linda.
And Congress would have no right to the info.
Okay, now we're at the end of this, but I want to ask you something that I haven't asked you before.
You know, over the years, I think we've got to know each other pretty well.
And I first heard you on our Bell show, and I thought, my God, this woman's amazing.
And you are a digger, what we used to call a digger, a digger for information, a digger for stories.
Those people don't exist anymore.
You've given 38 years, you said, to me, of your life.
Well, it's the 79 fall, September is when I started my very first phone calls on a strange harvest in the animal mutilation mystery.
And this is 15 September.
So 36 years.
This is my 36th year.
36 years of your life.
None of us can do.
Okay, none of us can do what we are doing forever.
You know, our lives are finite.
I wish they weren't, and they're getting longer all the time because of medical science, but they are.
What I worry about with you is, well, number one, can you keep up this momentum, especially as you're at a tipping point now?
This is a very important stage you seem to have reached.
But the other thing is, who on earth, you know, I'm a guy who talks to people like you and asks questions, but I don't go out and do that digging stuff.
That's not what I do.
I leave that to a different kind of journalist.
Who's going to do it in the future?
I don't know.
And you're bringing up such an excellent point.
When at contact in the desert, well, first, let me address the issue of rigor.
The divine field blessed me with a tremendous amount of energy and stamina in this life as if I was going to need it, and I certainly have.
And right now, as I'm talking to you, I feel no less energetic, no less inspired.
There's nothing in my life that wants to slow down.
In fact, it seems to me that I more and more and more.
So if the divine field will just keep sustaining me, then I will just keep doing everything that I'm doing and always have done.
So that's number one so far, fingers crossed.
The second thing is that when at Contact in the Desert, which was the first week of May, there were Stanton Friedman was there, Jim Mars, myself, Von Doniken.
Von Doniken and Stanton Friedman are 80.
Von Doniken doesn't have a crease or a line in his face.
It's amazing.
Myself and Mars, we're about the same age at the beginning of the 70s decade.
And we were on a panel, or some of us on a panel.
And what I began to realize is that these peers and myself, we held doors open over the last three to four decades that the government thought that they were going to be able to close shut so easily in the 50s and the 60s.
And that over the decades, if you look at what happened, it didn't take many of us to be stubborn and persistent to keep holding open doors on facts because whistleblowers,
all of us have had frustrated government, whether they're intel or military, who have been themselves either hurt personally, upset that they have been ordered to lie, when they have been face to face with non-humans,
when they have been assigned security around craft that defied any possibility of terrestrial technology, and that there are people that it ate into their soul.
That's the only way I can say it.
That being forced by policies of denials and signing non-disclosure agreements, it ate into their souls.
And two or three people have contacted me through intermediaries over these last 36 years when they knew that they were going to pass.
And I have had the ability to sit and look in the eyes of people who had nothing to gain.
This is not for money.
This isn't for power.
This isn't for anything.
It is for trying to cleanse their souls before they die.
And that is not an overstatement.
And which logically, whoever you are, we'd all want to do that.
So these people have no reason to make it up, Linda.
That's right.
And one of these men who talked to me about many, many, many hard details said to me, Linda, it's all been so strange and disturbing that I never wanted to go home.
And that's the way he said it.
I never wanted to go home and tell my wife, my children, relatives, this is a story that stays bottled up because it is too strange and disturbing.
Well, me, I think that there is some sort of responsibility to the human family living on this planet.
If all 7.2 billion of us were made by extraterrestrials set in motion by genetic manipulation of already evolving primates, I am not afraid of learning that.
I think that we all need to understand what our relationship is for the truth with this planet, with other intelligences.
If we knew the whole bloody story, it may be that whatever it is that has interacted with this planet for 270 million years at least, and our genetic evolution is linked directly to at least one of them somehow,
that if the governments would stop lying and we got a full briefing no matter how difficult they think it is, and they said, our very survival in 2015 is linked directly to something that is there and it may have a survival problem.
I want to know it.
I think We have the same parallel.
If I go to a doctor because there is something wrong, I want to know the whole truth.
I don't want to be told some sugar pill.
And Linda, crucially, is we have to wrap this up, and I don't want to.
And one of the reasons I'm wrapping this up is that it's hit 102 degrees in the room that I'm recording this.
So I am probably going to pass out quite soon unless I get cool.
But I just want to say this because it's important.
And, you know, you and I have talked so many times.
And I sincerely believe this.
We have to know this while we still have the capacity to think.
Because I don't think in 20 years, in 10 from now, people are going to know how to think anymore.
And I'm not just being some old fart who sits here and says this.
I passionately believe it.
Why?
Because I was trained by people who knew journalism and its methods better than me.
They were proper diggers.
And I am trying to pass on whatever I can from them.
But, you know, I am not fit to shine their shoes.
I'm not sure about the generation of journalists that comes next and the kind of broadcasting that we have because sometimes I despair of it.
And it's not the faults of the people involved.
But on a broader level in society, we depend on devices which are getting more and more complex and do our thinking for us.
And we turn to the television screen, our main source of information.
We get fed crap.
The news is becoming crap.
So while people still have a chance to think about stuff, maybe we do need the truth.
And that's all I've got to say before I think.
Howard, as we close out, I just want to say I did an interview with your astronomer royal, Martin Rees, about three weeks ago.
Extraordinary discussion.
And it had to do with his statement, if we encounter aliens in space, they will be machines.
And we had an hour and 15-minute discussion in his brilliant mind as he sees, and I think this is what he left me with, that the truth throughout this whole huge universe may be that organic intelligence always is only a sliver of time because the organic intelligence makes machines to go out into space and eventually something happens and the organic,
the DNA fails.
And it is a machine that continues to, a self-activating machine.
It is such a fascinating subject and maybe we can do another show together on this whole issue of a digital age, the 21st century, maybe the last time, exactly as you're saying, where humans had to be street fighters on their own ground because we are moving toward machines doing everything and computers essentially thinking for us.
Well, let's hope that they have some semblance of our former ability to quest about things, if that's sensibly put.
And in 102 degrees of heat, I'm not sure whether it was.
Linda, as ever, lovely to speak with you.
And some people recently have had a bit of a go at me for interrupting guests.
And I've tried to say to them, I only interrupt guests who need to be interrupted to keep them on point.
You never need to be interrupted to keep you on point.
God bless you.
God bless you, Howard.
Take care, Linda.
Thank you so much.
All right.
Later.
All the best.
Bye-bye.
Bye.
The marvelous Linda Moulton Howe from EarthFiles.com, a good friend of mine, good friend of this show, and always good to talk with her.
Let me know what you thought about what she had to say this time.
You can go to the website, theunexplained.tv.
Send me a thought, send me guest suggestions, any feedback, or if you'd like to make a donation to this show, let me turn the fan on again while I just say these next few words.
Thank you sincerely for your support for this show, morally and in every other way that you've given me.
It's always gratefully received.
And until next we meet here on The Unexplained, my name is Howard Hughes.
I am in sweltering London.
Please stay safe, stay calm, and stay in touch.
And if you can, in the heat, stay cool.
Thank you.
Take care.
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