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May 26, 2015 - The Unexplained - Howard Hughes
01:05:36
Edition 206 - Dr Harry Oldfield

This time veteran British "energy field" researcher Dr Harry Oldfield...

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Across the UK, across continental North America and around the world, on the internet, by webcast and by podcast, my name is Howard Hughes and this is The Unexplained.
Thank you for keeping the faith with the show and for all your emails.
And finally, we're going to do an awful lot of shout-outs on this edition.
So if you've emailed recently, be ready because your name may come up here.
And thank you very much for all the nice things you've said.
The website, www.theunexplained.tv, that's the one-stop shop.
If you want to make a donation to the show, which would be gratefully received to help us to continue, or you want to get in touch with me, you can send a message through there.
www.theunexplained.tv, the website designed, devised, created, maintained and owned by Adam Cornwell at Creative Hotspot in Liverpool.
All right.
The guest on this edition, Harry Oldfield, somebody who you suggested.
Controversial, yes.
But if you've ever heard people talk about the energy fields surrounding all of us and what they mean and perhaps how they can be manipulated and what they say about us, that's what he does.
But it's much more complex than that.
We'll talk with Harry Oldfield, who's been doing this stuff for, oh boy, three decades and more, actually the better part of four decades, really.
He's coming up soon from the English Midlands.
Let's do those shout-outs, though, first now.
Paul Cochlin, thanks very much for your email.
Dave from Edinburgh, now living and working in New York City, and says that he listens to this show as he's on the ferry cross in the Hudson.
Done that myself.
Lovely, lovely image, Dave.
Thank you for your email.
Jill, in a great place, Clovis, California.
Thank you.
Margaret in Glasgow, good to hear from you.
Derek, not a fan of Richard C. Hoagland.
Richard C. Hoagland will be back on this show very soon.
And Derek, some of the things you said are, will be running past him.
And I promise you that.
I must remember to do that.
I'm going to write myself a note.
Noah in Omaha, Nebraska, thought that there were holes in Tricia McKay's case.
She was the animal communicator.
Thanks, Noah.
Jeff in Cambridgeshire liked Klaus Donner.
An emailer whose name I'm not going to give you, he tells me that he's in jail in the Philippines.
Sounds very serious, and he is not there fairly, he says.
Very concerned about your story.
You know who you are.
And I hope that you've got an MP, member of the European Parliament, just about everybody who can be involved in this taking up your case.
And, you know, if what you say is so, then I do hope they'll get some results for you.
And very concerning email.
Please, please keep in touch.
M. Johnson in Arlington, Texas.
Good to hear from you.
Raoul in San Francisco, do I support Liverpool or Everton?
Which is a big question in my home city of Liverpool.
I have to say, my family split both ways.
So there were some Evertonians, and my dad was a lifelong Liverpool supporter.
You couldn't talk to him for ages if they lost.
And a big fan of the likes of Steve Gerard, who's just left Liverpool to go to LA Galaxy, long-term player there, and a real Liverpool icon, Steve Gerard.
So I'm a bit of both, really.
As a kid, I was taken to see both and, you know, enjoyed reveling in the atmosphere of both of them.
Two great football clubs in one great city.
Patrick, thank you for your kind comments.
Mark Wandless wants to hear more of Gerard Williams, the man who says that Hitler, as many people do, escaped to South America after the war and didn't die.
Leslie in Winnipeg, Manitoba, thank you.
Jason in Kansas City.
Tell me more about your work, Jason, if you would.
Glennis in South Africa.
Good to hear from you.
Kathy in the wonderfully named Pioneer, California.
Thank you.
Doug Comar prefers my show to Coast to Coast AM.
Well, I think there's room for all of us in this world, but that's nice to hear.
Craig would love me to get Russell Brand on here.
Only question I'd ask about him is, and I'm not sure, is he helping the political process in the world by the things he's been saying?
I don't know.
I'd like him to tell me why he is.
Tim in funk, thank you for getting in touch again.
Kevin would like me to talk to William Woollard, who was a reporter on a science and futurism show in this country called Tomorrow's World.
Very interesting man.
I wonder what he's doing now.
Ryan in Halifax, Nova Scotia.
Nice to hear from you.
Thomas, complained that I sometimes, and you may well hear me do it on this show, dip the volume level of a guest.
Usually I'll only do that, Thomas, if I need to bring the show on track or amplify a point, a good point that a guest has made.
Sometimes, of course, you get those situations where there's digital delay, and I will think the person has finished speaking, and because of the delay, they're still going on.
That's sort of unavoidable, although I'm trying to get better at that.
But I hear what you say, but usually I will only talk over somebody if I need to get them on track.
Ed Mackay, nearly half a century he's had as an amateur radio operator.
Congratulations, Ed, KB5GT, and says to me that, you know, we were the first people to do international communication.
It wasn't, you know, online as people think it is these days.
Shortwave radio was first.
Tell me about it, Ed, I know.
And of course, if there is a calamity in this world, if the power goes down, if there's some kind of, God forbid, you know, great catastrophe, we will depend on the radio amateurs to pass messages.
And we do whenever there's an earthquake or something, because digital systems and the internet are very fragile, as I try to keep telling people here.
Dave in Westcumbria, thanks for your email.
Paul Madison in Vancouver, Canada, good to hear from you.
Heike in Finland, thank you.
Dot, glad, Dot, that your computer issue is now sorted.
Jonas in Austria, good thoughts and suggestions.
Glynn, thank you for your email.
Georgia in Ontario, thanks for getting in touch.
Wes Friedlander, good to hear from you.
Same in Atlanta wants me to talk to Alex Jones.
Pretty much given up on that, Samit.
He was on the radio show.
Doesn't want to be on an online show, it seems.
I've tried phoning and emailing and everything, and, you know, there's no more I can do, but I'd like to talk to him.
Jason Francis, good to hear from you.
Another Jason in Bournemouth wants me to talk to the man who was the government's drug expert, Dr. David Nutt.
Had him on the radio show.
Fascinating man.
Jules Bloom wants better show indexing.
When the money and financing for the show allow that, Jules would definitely do it.
Stewart wants to know, did we do a show about the Enfield poltergeist?
Yes, we did.
We talked at his home to Guy Lyon Playfair, the main researcher.
And if you go back about 100 shows back, you'll find a show recorded at his home in London.
And Sean in Dale Street in Liverpool, originally from North Wales.
Thank you very much for your email, Sean.
Very nice to hear from you from my home city.
Wants to know, am I going to be making more shows and charge a subscription?
Well, we've been trying not to do that with the subscription, but I need to look at things because, truthfully, money is a difficulty.
And, you know, I don't want to go on about my situation, but it's a bit hand-to-mouth and I do the things I do because you know I feel that I have to do them and you enjoy them but it's not easy so I do need to look at the funding but I want to develop this show it's the old old thing we're getting there but thank you very much indeed okay our guest on this show Harry Oldfield fascinating man in the English Midlands let's get him on right now Harry Oldfield thank you very much for coming on the unexplained it's a real pleasure Howard and
it's nice to be talking to you.
Well, you know, once again, this is one of the guest suggestions that my listeners have made.
So it wasn't my idea.
It was a listener's idea.
And I got an email from a listener saying, you really need to check this man out.
And I did a little bit of reading about you.
And I thought, yeah, let's take a walk on the wild side and let's do something different and let's get this guy on.
So that's why we're here.
You're in Telford in Shropshire, aren't you?
I am indeed, yes.
Now, that's an interesting place because a lot of my North American listeners will not know anything about Telford, but Telford is one of the cradles of the Industrial Revolution, isn't it?
That is where ironworks really got going.
It did indeed.
We have a very famous bridge here called the Iron Bridge, which was the first iron bridge ever constructed by Thomas Telford.
And I guess nobody in that era, well, obviously nobody in that era, would ever have guessed that that Iron Bridge would become an international tourist attraction, but that it is today.
Absolutely.
Absolutely.
It's a terrific little town.
And I don't actually, I live down the road from it in a little town called St. George's.
Now, before we get into talking about your work in detecting, seeing and recording the energy fields, I guess you could call them, around people and things, which is what you're all about.
I mean, that's a terrible oversimplification.
Talk to me about you.
You're Dr. Harry Oldfield.
I'm presuming you're a scientist.
I am, indeed.
I have been for, let's say, in the work now for 30, no, what, nearly 40 years.
Gosh, forgetting my age.
And yeah, it all started.
I was a science teacher and it started from there.
It started as a school science project in collion photography, believe it or not.
Now, for those who don't know anything about it, and periodically it appears on television and does get referenced, but let's talk to people about what collium photography is.
Well, it's a method of pulsing electromagnetic field of high voltage, which is displaced over a copper plate with a dielectric cover.
And people put their hands on it, and you can see electro-luminescence around the object, the hand in this case.
And that's not a heat effect.
It's not a heat effect.
No, no.
I don't do it anymore.
I haven't done for ages.
I've gone way beyond that now.
But no, it's nothing to do with moisture or anything else.
It's an electrical effect, but it's the patterns of that electrical effect that we are particularly looking at.
And we have to say about this, this isn't something that somebody came up with in 1995.
This is old.
Very much so.
It goes back to Semyon and Valentinia Kurlian from now the Ukraine area of the world, and they did it in the early 1930s.
So you as a school teacher, teaching kids the rudiments of what the elements are and how they work, how did you get into this?
Well, we had a wonderful enlightened headmaster by the name of Mr. Dyson.
And he happened to have a word with this young Whipper Sapper of a teacher, me, at the time.
And he said, well, you know, Harry, I've heard sort of rumors about your teaching, and it's very charismatic.
And I was wondering if you'd like to run a science club.
And I thought, well, there's probably other people more experienced than me, headmaster.
And he said, no, I think you'll be the right person for it.
And that was the beginning of a long, long journey into this research.
And was this something that you were starting to research actually in the classroom?
I say this for a reason.
This is a previous era.
And in this day and age, you know, if you were to introduce anything like that into the classroom, people would complain.
Yeah, well, no, I even had parents come in in the evenings, have their curlion pictures done.
Yes.
But no, it started off as sort of conventional science club talked about, you know, we made weather balloons and they went up in the air, that kind of thing, filled with hydrogen.
And, well, we had lots of projects.
But after about a year and a half, I was running out of ideas.
Then I read a book called Psychic Discoveries Behind the Iron Curtain by Ostrander and Schroeder and published by Abacus Books.
You can still get it, I believe, on amazon.com.
And I hope it was all right to advertise there a little bit.
Of course.
And it was called Psychic Discoveries Behind the Iron Curtain.
And there I saw my first Curlian picture.
And as well as many other interesting things in the book.
And there was a schematic diagram of how to make your own Curlian camera, which I had the right apparatus at the school and forged ahead.
And, well, the rest is history, really.
And we started to take our first Curlian picture maybe a week or so after I read the book.
The world of psychic matters and the world of science very frequently don't connect, but they seem to have connected in you.
You were interested in these things as well as your science work.
Oh, absolutely.
Yes, indeed.
One leads to the other, in my opinion.
I was Very lucky.
I was brought up as a youngster with no closed doors to my mind.
And that's mainly due to my parents, my father, Frank, and my mother, Juliet.
And I remember the first present I can really remember from my parents as a tropical fish tank.
And that started me on the road to discovery of nature.
And we lived in a flat on top of a tenement building in the 1950s.
And there was no garden access or anything like that.
So it was my first glimpse into nature.
It was truly wonderful.
So there you are taking these curlion photographs.
Did you have any idea then that they might mean something?
I was just interested in a phenomena called the phantom leaf effect.
This is where researchers behind the Iron Curtain in Russia at the time took 10 or 20% of a living leaf away and then re-photographed the object.
And the missing part miraculously reappeared in the picture.
You couldn't see it with the eyes or anything, but it appeared in the picture.
And I was fascinated by this and tried to duplicate it and discovered that it was true.
You mean you actually were able to repeat that?
Oh, absolutely, in the school itself.
Yes.
Yes, indeed.
And what on earth?
I dimly remember seeing something about this on television, but I don't think it's been talked about on TV for a very long time.
What did you make of that?
I mean, here we have a part of a leaf being taken away, but its presence still being there on any level.
And even today, rationally, that doesn't compute.
Well, I believe that there is a subatomic energy matrix on which all molecules are strung, even atoms.
And it's structured, it has form, it has coherence.
And even, let's say, you've got, well, you can't see me, but before you an empire of cells, and there's about a couple of billion of them, maybe.
And if you were to strip away those cellular structures, what have you got left?
I believe you've got a subatomic energy field in which consciousness still carries on.
And that's the relevance of my most recent work.
A lot of scientists, most of them I guess, would laugh at the very idea.
Yes, indeed.
I've been laughed at quite a few times.
I'm quite immune to it.
Well, I want to get to that.
I mentioned on a previous edition that you might be coming on because a listener has suggested you.
And I got an email from somebody who does research and wanted to make some points.
I won't bother you with them right now, but I think you will want to answer them when I put them to you.
But nothing to be troubled with at the moment.
So there you are.
Starting this research, if I may be so bold, how old were you then?
Oh, about 24.
So young man, that's just when I was starting to get into all of this stuff as well.
23, 22, 23, 24 was when my mind opened to perhaps believing that there was more to the world than we could actually see before that.
I think I was pretty much, you know, my feet were pretty much nailed to the ground.
So it's the kind of thing that young people start to get into.
What did you do next?
Well, basically, I was approached by, this was about a year later, with the school science club still going on, by a medical researcher by the name of Glenn Ryan.
And he worked at an adjacent hospital, quite close to the school.
And he invited me over to take a picture.
He said, I've seen you take a picture of vegetables and plant material and things like this.
I've seen you in your lectures.
And we were brought together by a marvelous old gentleman called Marcus McCausland, who ran a society called Health for the New Age in them days.
And we're talking, you know, 1970s here.
And he brought us together.
I was still teaching at that time and went in his laboratory one evening with my coding camera.
And I've never looked back.
It's been a revelation.
He said, look at these cancer cells growing in culture compared to normal cells.
And they were completely different in the picture output.
Look at this normal tissue compared to cancerous tissue, completely different.
And yeah, we took it from there.
What did you think it meant?
Well, we first thought it could be used as a diagnostic early detection system, a diagnostic research tool.
And we did lots of studies, but it went to the ethical committee of the hospital, which turned the project down, I believe.
But that's another story.
And you haven't been immune to that kind of opposition.
I know that in your 30-odd years of doing this.
How does that connect with something that's in your biography, the Electro Scanning Method, ESM?
Your biography says Harry developed a method called Electro Scanning Method.
While working with Curlie and Photographer, he observed that sound and radio frequencies emanated from the subjects as well as light.
He decided there must be information about the subjects in these as well as in the light frequency.
How does that work?
Well, basically, I decided, well, there's other signals coming off here as well as what was being recorded on the film.
So I lowered the voltage and increased the frequency output.
And lo and behold, a whole new method was born.
One thing with curling photography, you can't scan the object in three dimensions.
The object could have bumps and could have recesses.
And I decided, you know, try transparent electrodes, flexible transparent electrodes, which were partially successful.
But I was always looking for a way of putting the field around the object, the specimen, in three dimensions.
And I gradually formed the conclusion that this was very greatly difficult.
I then, as I said, upped the frequency and lowered the voltage.
And suddenly with oscilloscope probes and sound detectors and sound level meters, I was able to scan a human being in three dimensions.
And yeah, it was the rest is written as history in Dark Side the Brain, which is an old book published by myself and Roger Cockhill.
And that's where we first made it public.
Some of this seems to connect, and I'm probably way off being here, but I'll run it past you anyway, with the Turin shroud, because that, they say, is a strange three-dimensional image, somehow perhaps by radiation imprinted upon a cloth.
Yeah, yeah, indeed.
And some of us believe it was a moment of the time of Jesus' resurrection.
There was a burst of energy, and this energy recorded itself on the actual shroud.
And I haven't, of course, investigated it.
This is something I think is possible.
All right.
So this is the stage you're at now, the electro scanning method.
And you're able to do this.
And by changing the frequencies, you're able to get a better image and a three-dimensional image.
Not an image.
It's an actual data.
Sorry, a readout.
Okay, yeah, a readout.
A readout.
What do you do with that information when you've got it, though?
You train others to use it and you try and correlate the information.
I no longer use it myself because we've gone on to further to better things.
And were you never frustrated that you didn't do anything else with it?
Oh, there's been frustration, of course, over the years.
But I shrug it off, you know, and say, people are not ready.
Institutions are not ready.
But I had to wait till I was in my 60s for certain things to open up, and things are opening up now.
It is a more open era, certainly, for discussion of these things, I think.
It is even more open than 20 years ago.
The fact that I'm doing this now and still keep a toe in the mainstream media, I think probably indicates that.
But it sounds to me as if, before we leave that behind, that here is a body of work that somebody somewhere, because it may have great implications for all sorts of things, somebody ought to pick it up.
Absolutely.
Yeah.
Yeah.
And if they were to pick it up, what should they be, what direction should they be going with it?
What should they be doing with it?
Well, somehow tied into what are MRI scanners, it's another dimension, perhaps.
I can only speculate.
It's something that, yeah, someone might consider out there.
We're open to approaches.
So you said you left this behind.
What direction did you go in then?
Well, I always wanted to get back to the visual pictures of Kirlian photography.
But as I said, it had two-dimensional limitations.
And I went on to discover the ESM, but then I always wanted to get back to the visual side.
And I thought to myself, well, let's look at, get down to fundamentals.
What are we seeing in the Kirlian image?
What's the basis of energy?
And it's, of course, the electron.
Right.
I said to myself, what do we have on a quantum physical level that's the same size as an electron?
And it suddenly dawned on me, of course, it's a photon.
And it wasn't until the onset of the first 32-bit RISC processor was actually in a British company, the Archimedes computer, that I had a processor fast enough to do the calculations to prove this theory.
So that, well, I'll get back to the fundamentals how if I was looking at you now, I wouldn't be seeing you at all.
Well, I'm actually not seeing you at all because I'm on a radio program.
But if I was seeing you, I've got a nice picture of you in front of me here on the computer.
I'm seeing the recorded, the light reflected off you.
And if the energy field exists, it has to pass through your energy field twice, once on the way in, once on the way out.
Why is that?
Explain to me why that is.
Well, it's a way we all see.
It's quite simple.
It's fundamental physics.
So it's light bouncing off an object is how we see.
Yeah, that's absolutely how we see.
And if there is a subtle energy field, well, I theorized if there's a subtle energy field, it has to pass through once on the way in, once on the way out, producing an interference effect.
And after looking into this, I discovered a way of recomposing it in a computer program and actually began to see it.
That was quite an exciting moment.
Now, these days, we can send live video from little tiny smartphones to anywhere in the world.
We can store huge amounts of data and do all sorts of calculations that they couldn't do on the space shuttle until very, very recently.
It's quite remarkable what we can do.
Your work, though, then, processing this data was pretty groundbreaking by the sounds of it.
Yes, it was.
And, you know, it's something that is still groundbreaking, really, because, you know, certainly it's kept me busy for the last 30-odd years.
Sorry, 20-odd years now.
So this is polycontrast interference photography.
It's now called NEV, New Energy Vision.
It was revamped by my own son, Anthony, Anthony Oldfield, who, shall we say, when he was a little lad, first delving into computers, said, was watching this old screen of mine and said, you know, Dad, one day I can perhaps help you with it and improve the speed and do this, do that, and certain things that even I can't remember what he told me.
And I said, okay, son, I'll be really grateful for the help one day.
And he was a man to his word.
And he revamped the program.
And again, the rest is history, many, many years ago now.
Long time ago, I went to see a medium in Kent.
And I've forgotten her name now, but anyway, it's irrelevant to this.
But I remember her looking at me and saying, you have a purple aura.
And I thought, oh, that's very interesting.
I wonder what that means.
Is that what you're seeing?
We see more colors than that.
We see a whole rainbow of colors.
And they all mean different things.
You can only work out that they mean different things, though, by doing a lot of experimentation.
And that's what I've been doing over the years.
Yes.
Yes.
There's a lot to talk about.
Then talk to me about that.
Well, I've trained people over the years, many, many people, scientists, therapists, etc.
And they're using this system in the field now.
I mean, we're talking here of not an experimental instrument, but a field instrument.
And yeah, I'm very pleased at my time of life.
I can look back and say I'm very, very happy.
But the work is still in progress, of course, because things progress.
You don't have to name names, helped or assisted or whatever in this.
But give me some case studies of where this has helped somebody, perhaps somebody who's come to you with some kind of medical condition or something or some kind of disturbance around them.
Talk to me about case studies, people who've actually been assisted, helped.
Okay, let's think.
Of course, there's so many.
We had a case of a lady with a throat chakra blockage.
We call it, let's say, a thyroid complication.
And she's just transformed her energy into something which is quite remarkable.
I also should tell you, as well as the visual device, NEV, and Pip, I've invented a therapeutic device, which I utilize electromagnetic pulses of light through crystals.
And that's something which we now utilize as a therapeutic tool.
It's all controversial stuff.
And we have to say, as we would say if we were on the radio, that if you feel you have some kind of malaise, you've got to go to the doctor in the usual way.
And I'm the first to say that.
I'm the first to say that.
And if you want whatever you want to use as an adjunct to that, but you've got to go and see a proper medic first.
I would never want to be directing people to anything that I personally hadn't tried.
And we couldn't do that.
So I've just got to get that health warning in there, Harry.
Well, I would have got it in before you.
All right.
There's somebody who thinks that she's been benefited by this.
I had actually still have a tinnitus problem ringing in the ears.
And a good friend of mine from America sent me a light box that I did try for a while.
And I wasn't really sure whether it worked, but it emitted different light frequencies from a light-emitting diode array.
Is it the same kind of thing we're talking about here?
Yeah, similar, but we are passing the light through crystals.
Now, crystals have had associations with healing for thousands of years.
And we've just updated it and combined modern technology with the system.
It was first of all called electro crystal therapy.
And now we have the light unit, which is really a quantum leap ahead of the older thing.
Yeah.
And you've been working on that for 20 odd years.
Let's see now.
Well, nearly 30 now.
Sorry.
As one gets older, one tends to lose track of things.
So tell me about it, Harry.
Tell me about it.
But I suppose these things begin to catch fire, don't they?
They begin to get momentum when serious professional people start to take an interest.
Now, I do personally know registered medical practitioners who are very interested in all of these things.
In fact, my own GP retired.
I think he retired a little early so that he could look at alternative therapies.
And I'm sure that he would have been massively interested in all of this stuff, even if we don't quite know how it works.
Well, I do believe I know how it works.
It works on the subtle energy matrix of the human being.
And it's what we first of all came in on, which was shown with the Kirdian photograph.
And the pip, if you like, is the evolutionary stage on the way to us revealing this true Picture of ourselves.
Because it's one thing to see it, and it's quite another thing to manipulate it.
Yeah, yeah.
Yes, it is.
And how does the process of actually manipulating it work?
If you've got an energy field that orthodox science doesn't believe in, you know, you are no more than the sum of your parts to orthodox science.
You know, and once you're gone, you're gone.
That's it.
You're a disassembly of parts.
You're no longer around.
Now, I have come across my own personal journey, but also evidence that this is no longer, this is not the case.
This is certainly we continue after death.
And that's something which continues to fascinate me.
And you know about this from your own personal journey?
I do.
And also, we have also in the images come across certain phenomena and manifestations that we can't explain other than psychic or spiritual means.
And this has also been a fascinating subject.
We've also invented something called the filter, the Olfield filter.
Well, let's talk about that in just a second.
I need to bring you back to that point.
Those things that you can't really identify or explain and they appear to be truly paranormal.
My listeners would want you to explain a lot more about that.
Well, let's say that when we're looking at somebody, I've sometimes seen them not alone.
They have had accompanying forms with them.
Some of these anthropomorphic forms.
Some of them are non-anthropomorphic and larva and dark shapes that attach themselves to the energy field or the auric field, as some people prefer to call it.
And this sometimes we see and we can, with our crystal input, we can actually dissociate these entities, for the want of another word, from interfering and harming the individual.
Three ways to look at this.
One is fantastic, isn't that amazing?
Two is, what a load of rubbish, I don't believe it.
Three is you shouldn't really be messing with something which is a balance possibly more intricate and delicate than you are aware at this stage.
Try and tackle those points if you can.
The same criticism was of when people first looked down microscopes.
The same criticism.
When Mr. Jenner first did the smallpox vaccination through cowpox, it was the same scepticism.
Quite honestly, Howard, I'm old enough and ugly enough now to just carry on with the work regardless.
Okay, well, that's dealt with the people who say what a load of rubbish.
And I will get emails from those people.
But let's leave that aside for the moment.
And as I say, I've got this email that I want to read to you a little bit later in this conversation.
But let's deal with the point that maybe there is something there.
And maybe that balance is so gossamer fine.
It's like the scales of justice.
It's hanging very, very delicately.
It's poised delicately.
And there you are going in there and making changes to it.
You've just described what health is.
It's a state of ease as opposed to dis-ease, which is an off-balance description of the subject.
And all we're doing is restoring balance and harmony back into the system.
And I can definitely relate to that over the years with the thousands and thousands of subjects that this has been used on now.
You talked about your own journey, and there's a quote from the Bible, and I'm not given to quoting from the Bible, but I will hear.
Physician, heal thyself.
Have you used this on yourself?
Very much so.
Yes, indeed.
I'm not going to go into detail, but yes, yes.
Okay, well, if you can talk around it, talk around it.
The first experimental subject was myself and then my immediate family.
Yeah, many, many years ago.
Can you hint at what the problem was that you helped?
Oh, gosh.
I think it was the general run of the day, stuff, coals, flu.
You know, I'm not trying to make it out to be a medical tool, a tool.
But shall we say that we notice changes?
And I wanted to know, I could take a picture of this system before and after, and there's a clear difference.
There could be those who would say that's mind over matter.
You may see, you may perceive that you see something and you may feel better afterwards, but it may just be the placebo effect.
Seeing a picture of a definite energy change before and after is a definite thing.
Placebo effect, nobody understands how that works.
I think it's the power of positive thinking.
And I think that more and more research should be done on that subject.
And orthodox medics use it as a criticism against, shall we say, things that are different.
And I think that's a little unfair.
Everything in this universe is said to have an electrical component to it.
And we are electrical systems whether we like it or not.
And this is at the heart of a lot of what you're talking about, it sounds to me.
That, excitingly to me, and I know to you from what you've said, speaks to us about the fact that, as you said before, we go on from here, because if we're a bunch of energy and we're not just a collection of, you know, offal in, you know, with a horrible, horrible analogy to use, but if we're not just offal in bits of limbs and stuff like that, if we're much more than that, that must mean that that energy, when we cease to be here in a plane that you and I can recognize, has to go somewhere.
It certainly does.
Yes, it does.
It's more than an electrical component.
It's a fundamental energy, which I believe comes from a very high source.
We're a spark of that source, and it travels through us in this lifetime.
And we are given lessons, like a schoolroom to learn things.
And I believe that when these lessons are over, we move on.
Like a lot of people, I lost my parents within the last six or seven years.
And, you know, the loss, you know this, you never get over that.
And I've been told a lot lately that they are energy.
We're all energy.
And their energy, their essence, goes on.
Yeah, I do believe that.
I do believe that, Howard.
I do believe that one day you and your parents will be united.
So this brings me to the point of if we are energy that you can record in the ways that you've been doing when we're actually here, if we continue to be energy elsewhere, then that energy ought to be around somewhere.
Yeah, absolutely.
And I do believe we have a rudimentary tool in our systems to be able to, when opportunity arises, I believe you've got to be in the right place at the right time to see this phenomena happening and you can record it.
Yeah.
And there's not just me recording with my instruments now.
There are other people out there doing the same thing.
I suppose the ultimate test would be to record somebody at or around the point of death and then see what happens thereafter.
Yeah, it would.
It would.
Which I don't know what ethical rules there are.
I'm sure there are a handbook full of them.
I would say so.
So that's going to be a tough one to do unless somebody specifically gave their consent.
And I would presume that it's the kind of thing that you would allow to be done with yourself.
Yeah.
Let's hope not for many more years to come.
But yes, yes, certainly I would, Howard.
You use the word believe, though, about this energy journey.
Yeah.
But that's all you have, isn't it?
Believe.
No, I have evidence.
I have evidence that we continue afterwards.
I'm talking of a personal nature.
But yeah, I have evidence.
I think for that to make sense, if you can, can you share at least some of that with us?
Well, let's think.
There have been so many incidents over the years.
But let's say, let me think.
I've had, shall we say, spiritual experiences where I've seen, for example, animals that I have lost, close ones.
And I've seen them shortly after death and during times of crisis.
And that is true.
I've, you know, call me mad or a mad old professor, whatever you'd like to call it.
Eccentric is a nice word.
Eccentric.
Yeah, I like the word eccentric.
I'm certainly that, Howard.
But those manifestations, they could, if we assume this sort of energy exists, couldn't they just as easily come from you?
Yes, yes, that is a good point.
They could indeed.
One thing for sure, we'll all know the answer to that one day.
All right.
I got an email from a man called John.
We'll call him John.
And I mentioned your name on a previous edition, said that I was going to get you on here because one of my listeners was very keen that I investigate you and your work.
This man has been involved in a paranormal group somewhere here, knows a bit about filmmaking, is an academic, knows about Bolex cameras, knows about lenses and lighting, and has done some experiments.
Experiments with old field lenses in Thailand two years ago, just under two years ago.
Apparently, this man and his partner experimented with the lenses.
The partner was convinced there was a spiritual bent to the effect that the lenses created.
I'm reading here, when held over a digital camera for a photograph.
I, on the other hand, coming from a filmmaking background, was convinced that the resulting images show that the external light sources were being reflected and or refracted in some way by the lens and splitting the light into spectrums.
That is clearly correct.
Okay.
It is the patterns of the energy, just like the curlion is an effect of electrons.
Okay, well, my emailer talks about a Doppler effect, a Doppler effect between rays and shadow, which is what you would expect.
Yes.
It says that they took the lenses to Thailand.
They were trying to experiment with them further.
Two sessions were planned to experiment with channeling and transfiguration and mediumship and meditation.
The first session involved just three of us, and the second also involved a psychologist.
The physical mediumship was rather spectacular.
I won't go into detail about all of that, but that sounds interesting.
I took photographs of this, none of which showed anything unusual.
Then we used the old field lens for a few photographs.
So, you know, they were in a position where they had experienced people, quotes, no need for trickery.
There was nothing like that going on.
We were experiencers and believers, but with a skeptical bent too.
And I quote, the resulting photographs were absolute tosh.
Once again, the lens picked up light in the room, split it up, reflected it and refracted it, and that was the only effect picked up.
This was during two spirit guides faces, almost battling for precedence over the medium, an effect that was quite awe-inspiring.
Sadly, it wasn't caught on camera, and the old field lens did, quotes, nothing to help.
What do you say about that?
It could well be that perhaps there was a reason for this, a technical reason.
It could also be the fact is that some things were not meant to see.
I can't really comment because the system has worked so many times.
Are you surprised that people are doing, I mean, you must be gratified, I guess, maybe a little flattered that people are doing research like this with your lenses?
I'm very happy because I can't be in all those places at the same time.
Let me just read on for a second.
The medium himself didn't want any of this to be true.
He was passionate about the lenses.
So we gauged another experiment to prove that the lens was only creating effects from light sources in the room.
We did the same thing as before, but this time switched all the lights out and covered all other light sources, so there was no light.
If it was true that the lens was picking up energy, ectoplasm, other effects of a paranormal nature, then this would surely be picked up regardless of any light or not in the room.
Guess what?
The photos were black, no light, no detail.
He says, and I quote, and this is the clinch of the last thing I'll say, this proves, I think, without a doubt, that Harry Oldfield's technology doesn't do what it purports to do.
This is one opinion, Howard, and he's entitled to his opinion.
But we think otherwise.
Just because of one incident, you can't judge years of work.
But have you been able to do experiments using your old field system in the dark where you've been able to show energy where there has been no light source?
You can't see anything without a light source.
That is absolute a fact.
Well, that's the crux of all of this, isn't it?
That if the lens is just creating refractive effects, then that's nothing paranormal.
That's just physics.
The whole thing with what I've been doing over the years is that they are physical instruments.
Physical instruments are objective.
And at times, the conditions are right, the circumstances are right.
You can see phenomena.
And that's all I'm saying.
Does it worry you that the people involved in these experiments were not the sorts of scientists who might go into it, whether they wanted to or not, with minds that were a little closed?
These people were open-minded.
Yeah, sure.
Absolutely.
Absolutely.
Does that concern you that here were people who in some respects perhaps wanted it to work and it didn't?
I have no comment to make, just to say that if at first you don't succeed, try and try again.
I've tried hundreds of pictures with nothing in it.
There's just that one that comes along that is very special indeed.
I mean, I don't want to be, this isn't a political interview where I have to hammer home the points.
I find that kind of interviewing very tedious.
But I will just say that if it is such a powerful effect, why doesn't it happen every time?
You said that you've done many experiments where nothing has shown itself.
Has shown itself quite right.
So why can you not repeat it every single time?
For something to be scientifically correct, then you can repeat it.
I once had an old professor at university, and he said to me, Oldfield, you only need to see one white crow to prove to yourself that white crows exist.
But you will spend the rest of your academic career proving it to others, especially if another white crow doesn't turn up.
That's all I can say.
This work of your life, it must be very, very frustrating to you that you're getting older and there is so much more to do.
You talked about other people picking up the mantle of some of it.
You must get this tremendous fire under your feet thinking, I've only just started with this and there's a lot to do.
There's still a lot to do.
I may not be the person to carry on with that, but I will try.
I will try.
That's all I can say.
I'm sometimes under fire for setting up straw men and for assuming comments that people may make, but I have to do it this time.
So listeners who don't like that, please forgive me this time.
Answer, which you've partly done already, those people who will say, this man is completely, he's a charming eccentric, but he is completely mad.
Yeah, absolutely.
Who am I to argue with them?
I leave it to those who know me, people who've known me for years.
For example, I think you had Duncan Rhodes on the program.
I did a couple of shows ago.
I think he'll testify to my sanity.
That's all I can say.
You just travel through life.
People pick up opinions, some of them true, some of them false, about yourself and your life, and you just carry on with it.
Would you like, or maybe you've even been offered at some time in your life, would you like some university institution to offer you a research grant so you can do this properly?
I say properly is a bad word to use, so you can do this more systematically.
Yes, I could do with it, but, you know, I'm at this stage now where I'm the old consultant.
I'm no longer really a frontline operator.
Although I do my, I mean, I have my clinic regular here in Shropshire.
I have a regular clinic once a month at the College of Psychic Studies where people can come and see me.
And people can look at our website on, you know, whenever they want to check me out that way.
But I don't want to make out to be I'm indifferent about things or people's opinions.
We all like to be thought of, but nicely off, but if people think it's a load of what, Tosh, I think you used the word there.
Well, no, it was my emailer who used the word.
It wasn't me.
Okay.
You know, I'm sorry to hear he thinks about that in that way, but we know that things are different.
Things are very different.
I don't doubt that we are energy systems, whatever level those energy systems operate and however they may persist after we cease to be here or we are capable of being seen and interacting with human beings.
And if we are, then maybe we can affect those not by using any external techniques, but by ourselves.
And I'm saying this for a reason.
This last week I've had to come to terms with something that is something a lot of people have had to come to terms with, and it's not the nicest thing.
I was told that my blood pressure is high.
You know, I thought I was a bit young for all of that stuff, but to tell you the truth, I've lived a media life and I've drunk a lot of black coffee and I've eaten too many supermarket meals and too much fast food and had one too many glasses of Chardonnay over the years.
So I guess that's what I expect for all of that.
But what I do find monitoring my blood pressure now is that I can affect it.
I can affect it.
I can affect it by thinking nice thoughts.
It will go down.
I can make it happen.
I could make it happen now.
So if we can do that with blood pressure, then maybe we can do this with our energy field.
And if we can, what a world of possibility that might open up.
It's a world of endless possibilities.
I want to sort of end on a good note here.
And the more I've studied this world, this universe and the creatures in it, the more I'm fascinated by it.
What is the next thing you want to achieve?
Sorry?
What is the next thing you want to achieve, Harry?
Again, the universe is my teacher.
But yeah, I think to train more other people, to get more people interested in my work, to take it further.
I just want people, open-minded people to train so they can take it further.
That's all I really want to say.
You could really, this idea has just come to me, but you could really do with the research associate who was perhaps going up to the International Space Station to see if these things, if they are universals, then they'll operate surely anywhere.
If they operate in space, then you are onto something.
Well, there we go, Howard.
Perhaps we have the beginnings of a new research project.
How do you make your money, Harry?
I know that's a very indelicate question, but people, and again, and I'm curious, let me not use people as the excuse.
I'm curious as to how you've financed yourself over 30 years.
We're the greatest difficulty.
And, you know, just, you know, we've made ends meet over the years.
But it's one of those things.
You just keep going from day to day, you know, and that's it.
And you've got to believe in a thing very sincerely to be able to live on that basis.
I wouldn't have carried on this long and this hard if it wasn't something I didn't believe in.
How do you, when people ask you, you say maybe you're on holiday or whatever, and you say, hello, my name's Harry, and they say, oh, what do you do?
What do you say?
I'm a researcher.
And they usually ask what that research is into.
And I say, alternative medicine.
And we haven't talked about your qualifications, but one emailer recently to the Unexplained said, please get your guests to talk about their qualifications.
I've got them here on your biography.
You're a doctor of DOM.
Is that homeopathy?
Yes.
Right, okay.
Visiting professorships and honorary doctorates all over the world.
Yeah, that's true.
Yes.
And a biologist.
And a biologist as well, which I started off as when I was teaching.
And I'm also a fellow of the Royal Microscopy Society.
Yeah, I suppose I'm well qualified.
But shall I tell you what, Howard?
I don't know 1% of 1% of anything.
That's a great position to be in, though, because that means that you're never going to stop learning.
That's true.
That's true.
And it's still a wonder to me just how this whole system ticks over.
It really is.
Well, the greatest thing that you told me today that you reminded me of is something that is truly remarkable.
It's the one thing that I will take away, and that is the image of the leaf having part of itself chopped away, and yet the picture being taken of the leaf showing that it was still in an energetic form, still there, intact.
We did it once with a whole plant, a whole organically grown potato plant, and we got the whole plant back just for a split second.
Does that relate to our relationship with plants?
Here's another story from my boring life, but my neighbor next door, he died a couple of years ago, and they're refurbishing his apartment.
And I'm really worried about what kind of neighbors I'm going to get now.
But he had a couple of plants on the landing here, and they're very beautiful.
And boy, are they hardy.
They just exist with minimal maintenance.
So when he died, when Peter died, I took over the job, it's not a job, I love doing it, of looking after the plants.
And I just water them, but I talk to them nicely and I tell them how beautiful.
I know people will think I'm a nutter for doing this, but I do it.
And they seem to respond to it.
Yes, they do.
They do.
Because any living thing will respond to kindness.
And if it comes from a good place, like a human's heart, there's an energy connection.
And is that why when I or other people think good and benign thoughts towards animals, it doesn't work every time, but those animals will respond favorably to you?
Yes.
Yeah.
Give an example.
I for many, many years kept snakes.
And yeah, I mean, you know, just as anyone does.
Well, they're not exactly warm and cuddly, are they?
But maybe they are.
Oh, they are.
They are.
They take on the temperature of their surroundings.
They're not cold and slimy creatures.
And yeah, I can say that they respond to love and to empathy, a good empathy.
They've got a snake that everybody's terrified of in South Africa called the Black Mumba.
The Black Mumba has a terrible reputation, a really bad rap down there, because of the number of people killed by these things that live underneath your house.
Give a dog a bad name, Howard, and it will act on it.
But do you think that one of those things could, I say things, one of those creatures could respond to love?
Yes, I do.
I truly do.
It's all fascinating stuff.
It really is.
And at my time of life now, I'm not frightened to say so.
How would you like to be remembered?
I just like to be remembered as a good man.
That might be too much to ask for.
But I'm one man that tried to, in his small way, in his day, tried to do his best for everyone he could.
The thing that struck me about the conversation that we've had, sorry to interrupt there, I didn't mean to, but is that it seems to me that there's so much within you that you believe that you know.
And it's almost like it's a cascade or an avalanche.
You want to get it all out there.
You want people to know the truth of this as you've seen it.
That's the impression I pick up from you.
That's a correct impression, Howard.
Yes.
And I take on students.
I take on students.
I've had hundreds over the years, and each one of them is like another ripple going out on the big pond of life.
And how would you describe what they have learned when they leave you?
Almost as much as I can teach them.
But about what?
What would you say?
I mean, look, I went to a university and learned an academic subject, and then I went to another university and studied journalism.
And I came out of it with a diploma that said, claimed that I was a journalist.
I could do a journalist and could do 100 words a minute shorthand.
Journalistic career started the day you left university.
Yes.
Tell you that, Howard.
Absolutely.
Absolutely.
And that's when my journey of life began.
But I came away from that course in Cardiff with a piece of paper that said you have a diploma in journalism.
What do your people go away with?
What do they tell people that they meet that they can now do that they couldn't before they met you?
They studied under Harry Oldfield, and that has its own impetus and qualification.
And a certain cachet, I think.
Harry, lovely to talk with you.
People will have questions.
Thank you, Harry.
And we've had a little bit of delay going on with the digital connection, but not really so much to trouble us.
If people want to know more about you, and you are one person that people do have to go away after this and read about, this interview is not going to answer all the questions.
Where do they go?
I would recommend www.electrocrystal.com, which is our website.
And my previous book is two previous books, which are still available on Amazon.
One is Dark Side the Brain by Harry Olfield, Roger Coggle, and a big biography of myself, on myself, Harry Olfield's Invisible Universe, a biography by Jane and Grant Solomon.
And many, many other things that just have to tap Harry Olfield into YouTube and you'll get, I'm told, hundreds of references.
Yes, I can attest to that.
You're out there in a very real and serious fashion, Harry.
I am indeed.
And there we go.
And thank you again for your wonderful set of questions, Howard.
Well, a pleasure to talk with you.
I hope and I pray as best I can that I've done you justice because I think you're a very interesting man and opinions that you know only too well because you heard that email.
Opinions will vary, but then that is the mix and the smorgasbord and the collation that is life, isn't it?
It's also people's free will and they can exercise their free will.
And that, to me, is very, very precious.
And they can give their opinions about anything.
We're still members of a free country.
They tell us that, yes.
They tell us that.
They tell us that.
All right, Harry.
Well, thank you very much indeed.
Let's just underline this point because I have to.
Talking about medical matters, we've said it once.
I'll say it again so that nobody can come back at me with this.
See your general practitioner, your GP, your MD in America first.
Whatever else you want to do is up to you, but go and see your doctor.
Absolutely.
Harry Oldfield, thank you.
I'm sure we'll talk again.
If you've got any new research coming out, drop me an email and we'll talk again.
Thank you, Harry.
Absolutely.
Thank you, Howard.
Well, for all of the reasons that you heard, that is controversial stuff indeed.
I will let you be the judge of it.
Get in touch with me at www.theunexplained.tv.
Send me an email.
Tell me what you thought of this show.
Give me some guest suggestions for future shows.
Or if you'd like to make a donation, you can do that on the website as well.
And the site created, maintained, honed, and kept cranking over by Adam Cornwell at Creative Hotspot in Liverpool, my webmaster.
Thank you very much for all of your support.
Please keep it coming.
Just one important thing to say before I go.
There is a possibility, and I know I've hinted this before earlier this year, but I may disappear from the unexplained for a while.
That is to do with circumstances around me, partly domestic ones, things changing.
All our lives have changed within them, and there are just things that I have To sort out quite urgently.
And as you know, whenever I've been ill here, sometimes I've missed shows, I've always come back.
But there is no one to fill in for me.
It is a one-person production.
But you have my assurance that this is my labor of love and I want to develop it.
So if I do disappear, I will let you know what's going on with me and keep you fully posted and be back as soon as I possibly can.
But that has not happened yet.
Thank you very much for all of your support and your kind comments too.
Please keep them coming.
My name is Howard Hughes.
This has been The Unexplained.
Until next we meet here, please stay safe, stay calm, and stay in touch.
Thank you.
Take care.
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