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Nov. 1, 2008 - The Unexplained - Howard Hughes
47:36
Edition 18

So, during August, The Unexplained returned back to the airwaves on one of the UK'sbiggest talk stations!

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Across the UK and around the world on the internet, my webcast and podcast.
My name is Howard Hughes and this is The Return of the Unexpected.
Thank you for coming back to the show.
Thank you for keeping faith with us.
I know we haven't done any shows here for about six or eight weeks.
Good reason for that.
I've been doing talk and news radio up and down the UK in different places as we come to the end of summer in the Northern Hemisphere.
I know it's the end of winter and the beginning of summer in the Southern Hemisphere, but I've been working in different places.
I'm having a real blast getting back on air and doing things.
And one of the radio stations I worked at was a terrific talk station in my home city of Liverpool called City Talk.
And one of the shows I did there was the biggest overnight phone-in, the biggest late-night phone-in outside London in the UK.
A huge talk program called the Pete Price Show.
Now, Pete Price was off for a while, so I filled in for him.
And the boss at City Talk said to me, why don't you do the unexplained after midnight on a couple of these nights?
So for several of the nights, we actually turned the show into the unexplained and rolled it out across Merseyside, the North West and North Wales, and also to a huge listening audience, as I discovered online as well.
And the boss kindly gave me permission to use some of that material here on this website right now.
So by kind permission of City Talk Radio in Liverpool, thank you to Richard and everybody there for this.
Here's The Unexplained in August 2008, as it appeared on City Talk Radio.
Richard C. Hoagland knows NASA inside out.
Why?
Because he worked there.
Richard C. Hoagland covered the moon missions on television in the U.S. with Walter Cronkite, the famous American newscaster, the man who they said was more trustworthy than the president at one point when Nixon was in.
This man has fantastic credentials, so I'm going to stop talking about him now and get him on.
Richard, how are you?
Good morning, Howard.
What do you think about the build-up then, Mr. Hoagland?
Not bad, not bad.
Who was the very, very avuncular BBC anchor man that used to work for years and years and years, years ago?
Richard Dimbleby, was that his name?
Yes, very famous.
He's got two sons who are also in the media.
Because when I worked with Walter, I also briefly worked with Mr. Dimbleby.
Wow.
And what was he like to work with?
Because this is a slight sidetrack here, but Richard Dimbleby was the equivalent of your Edward R. Murrow, I think.
Exactly.
A very heavyweight broadcaster in every sense of the word.
The interesting thing is I was really very lucky, Howard, when I started in my career, which was a bit ago, I lucked out in having exquisitely real people to work with.
Walter was the same off the air as he was on.
And as far as I could tell in my brief relationship with your esteemed correspondent, he was the same.
These were people of a different generation who viewed news and the First Amendment in our country with great solemnity, and they put a lot of effort.
I mean, Walter used to go through miles and miles of pages in notebooks getting ready for one of our broadcasts during the Apollo program.
And it was very much a pleasure to work with people who took the news very seriously.
This takes us back to our discussion here on this show, which you wouldn't have heard, Richard, about the state of television today.
And we played an Edward R. Murrow speech.
Well, I know it makes you laugh, and you've just hinted at why that might be, but there was a kind of, not a consensus, some people disagreed with it, but there was a sort of floating view there that a lot of television is trash and has no great weight these days.
It is.
No question.
You know, our standards have completely gone to hell in a handbasket.
And, you know, there is no real in-depth reporting.
Maybe here and there, but it's so hard to find.
And most of it is what we used to call over here in the 80s tabloid journalism, where it's basically ratings, a sensation.
I mean, look at the amount of effort being devoted in our campaign to John Edwards and his abominable judgment in this whole affair versus the serious issues that Americans really want to hear about, which is what the two candidates, Mr. McCain or Mr. Obama, are going to do if either one is elected in terms of actual public policy.
But of course, the soap opera wins because that's where journalism has fallen to, which is light years below when I was fortunate enough to work with Walter and briefly with your Mr. Dimbleby.
I have to say I agree with you, and I don't care, you know, who knows it.
I don't think standards are what they were.
And I'm not ancient, and neither are you.
I just don't think they are.
And it's very, very important in the field of space, which you're on to talk about, because in an era where the media does not question as much, does not research as much, does not think, use its head as much because perhaps it hasn't got the nouse, as we say here, the ability to do that, then the truth about space, there may be things going on up there that will never get out.
Why?
Because nobody is asking the right questions.
Well, it's interesting that this week, one of the noted scientists on your side of the pond, a gentleman named Chandra Wickrama Singh, who worked with Fred Hoyle, Sir Fred Hoyle, who should have actually had a Nobel Prize.
Was he an astrophysicist?
He was an astrophysicist back in the 60s, 50s and 60s.
He should have actually shared it with William Fowler because Fred Hoyle worked out the nucleosynthesis of how stars shine, how the sun shines, what the product of nuclear runaway reactions are in supernovae, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera.
And it was only because of some pretty weird politics that Sir Fred Hoyle did not get his Nobel Prize.
Well, working with him, starting initially as a student and then as a respected scientist in his own right and now an internationally known astrobiologist, is this Indian astrobiologist named Chandra Vickrama Singh.
And he and Sir Hoyle for many years collaborated on looking at the potential for panspermia, meaning in space, the migration of germs, bacteria, life forms, amino acids, etc., between planets, between star systems, as a potential explanation to the question, how did life billions of years ago arise first here on Earth?
And they've Written a couple of books together.
I don't happen to have their titles off the tip of my tongue, but you have Google there as we have Google here, so it's really easy with the internet to just plug in Fred Hoyle and Chandra Wick Rama Singh and find the books they've done together.
Well, this week, the eminent Dr. Wick Rama Singh came out with a very interesting announcement, which parallels exactly what I've been saying and my colleagues at Enterprise on this side of the Atlantic Ocean for many months now, if not years.
Dr. Wick Rama Singh basically said, and I'm going to quote exactly, because this was reproduced in one of the international news services, NDTV actually carried it earlier this week.
That's the Indian TV service, okay.
He says that the discovery of liquid water on Mars, combined with earlier discoveries of organic substances in a meteorite that came from Mars, and also of methane in the Martian atmosphere, all point to the existence of life, contemporary life, on Mars.
Which is bringing us to the good stuff, Richard C. Hoagland, because Mars is one of your big things.
You've always had a lot to say about Mars.
Let me drop a second shoe.
He is claiming that NASA is not announcing this, that it full well knows this because it's NASA's experiments, but that NASA is not announcing this astonishing, world-changing discovery because of political considerations.
What would they be?
That's exactly what I've been saying in my two books, The Monuments of Mars and The New One Dark Mission, The Secret History of NASA, which I've said on your other programs many, many times over these years, that I've said on American media, radio, and television for decades that NASA does not tell the truth because of political considerations.
And I thought it was very interesting that just a few days ago, you know, one of your eminent scientists has had the courage to come out and say this publicly there.
You've been saying it for years about Mars, and you were the face on Mars man.
Now, for people who don't know about the face on Mars, you can look at photographs of Mars if NASA will release ones that are clear enough for you to see this, and you will see something that looks like a structure, that looks like a face.
Now, there are people who say that's an optical illusion, and there are people like you who say, oh, no, it ain't.
Well, we, of course, have looked at a lot more data than Dr. Wick Rama Singh, who has been focused primarily on primitive life forms, microbes, things like that.
And we have come to the conclusion, myself, members of our team at Enterprise, you know, an interdisciplinary group that's comprised of a number of different scientists from a number of different backgrounds looking at this problem since the 1980s.
We've come to the conclusion that Mars used to be home to an ancient, extraordinarily advanced civilization that disappeared under bizarre and catastrophic circumstances, leaving ruins all around the planet, which had been photographed by primarily NASA spacecraft.
And then, because of political considerations, as Dr. Wick Rama Singh has said about microbes.
Do we have them?
No, we don't.
Richard, are you there?
I'm here.
So NASA has covered up the evidence.
Well, not only NASA, but this particular phone conversation seems to be also subject to interruptions.
Now, listen, we may joke about that, but that happens.
We've done things before where these lines drop.
Yep.
No, this is definitely the fingerprints of people that do not want this discussed.
You might think, we might have listeners here, because it's the first time you've been on this radio station, City Talk 105.9, you might think that is nonsense, but I have heard people interviewed about these subjects.
The line has gone peculiar.
There are clicks on the line.
The line has dropped.
Or, in some cases, Richard, these people have had visits from people wearing dark suits.
Well, fortunately, that's never happened to me, but we've had mysterious communications problems.
Look, I wrote a recent book, which was published with a co-author with Mike Berra, my friend and colleague who used to work at Boeing, which is a major aerospace company over here.
We published it last year in October.
It rocketed to the top of the New York Times bestseller list in only two or three weeks.
It's really amazing.
And we have excellent feedback that a lot of our readership is people inside NASA, inside the defense establishment, inside the government.
I know that's true because you and I did something online about this.
And you can track back who's hitting your website.
Yes.
And I just did a little bit of research, and I saw that a number of those people, this is absolutely true.
Jay, my producer, is looking at me as much as to say, you're kidding.
It's true.
I saw that after I did a chat with you that we put online, a lot of the hits I was getting on my website was from NASA's various operations all over the continental United States.
And, you know, I've got the evidence on my computer that says so.
Surprise, surprise.
Well, the bottom line is that what we prove in Dark Mission, The Secret History of NASA, which is now a New York Times bestseller.
Is it out in the UK, by the way?
You can buy it.
We don't actually have a formal UK publisher, but it's in English, and we thought you guys could kind of read our version.
Get it through Amazon.
So you can get it through Amazon.
Actually, I'm going to watch the stats on Amazon because every time I do one of these shows, I can get a kind of a reading for how many people are listening by watching the Amazon statistics.
Don't stop there.
So after we finish our show, I'll go and check Amazon and I can probably tell you how big your audience is.
I can tell you it's going to go through the roof, Richard C. Hoagland.
So what's the main...
We've got to take a little time out in a couple of minutes, and then we'll get into the real beef of it.
But how would you summarize what the book, which is, I think it's the work that you're probably proudest of, but you tell me.
Well, it's the latest, it's the most up-to-date.
How would you summarize what it says?
That NASA doesn't tell you the truth, that it lies.
And this is more important, Howard.
I mean, who was it that said that all government agencies lie or all governments lie?
But in this case, we prove in the book with the actual legislation that created NASA through an act of the U.S. Congress back in 1958, that the seeds of the lies that NASA is now telling everyone repeatedly on the issue of life in the solar system, life on Mars, et cetera, is based in the law itself.
That for all these years, most people have lived with the misimpression, which is that NASA is a civilian space agency.
In fact, under the law, as we document by simply quoting sections of the enabling legislation, NASA is an arm of the Defense Department of the United States.
It's a wing of the Pentagon.
So why would the Defense Department need something like NASA to protect what?
Well, the thesis of both Monuments of Mars and Dark Mission is to protect the fact that we are not alone.
This is the most incendiary reality as viewed by geopolitical people all over the planet.
Russia, which we're doing very good now in the mainstream news, you know, India, China, Japan, you name it, these governments have gotten together and on the subject of what's really out there, they have made some extremely interesting and bad decisions not to let the rest of us know that we in fact are heirs apparent to an extraordinary earlier epoch where human beings actually colonized the solar system.
We're not talking aliens, we're talking our great, great, great, great grandmothers and left us an astonishing array of artifacts that have been assiduously covered up not just by NASA, but by all the various space programs, including those conducted by the European Space Agency.
So we've been elsewhere and we're just visiting here.
Well, we came from elsewhere and we came here as refugees.
At least that's one of the scenarios that one can put together from this data.
The problem is we're not going to really know that part of the history unless we go and find the libraries.
This is really very much akin to what happened 100 years ago when very noted archaeologists and anthropologists, people like Sir Wolsey and others, went to the Middle East and dug in the sands of a place called Sumer,
current modern-day Iraq, and found this extraordinary civilization that had disappeared from human memory 6,000 years before, completely lost time because it was covered over by the drifting sands of the Middle East.
And they brought it back to life and they found, you know, cuneiform, and they found hieroglyphs, and they found artifacts and cities and pottery and art and all kinds of incredible artifacts from a civilization that had completely disappeared.
Well, this is that scenario on a scale of solar system proportions, Howard.
And it is a story that somebody, which has been able to get cooperation in governments all over this planet, does not want us to know about, and they are willing to lie repeatedly.
And Professor Wick Rama Singh is brave enough to say in the face of all of that that NASA is not telling you the truth on the simplest way to open the door, which is the current existence of microbes on Mars.
Hold that thought, Richard C. Hoagland.
Late nights today, a week at the unexplained with Howard Key on City Talk 105.9.
We're talking face with a man who knows Richard C. Hoagland on this unexplained week at City Talk 105.9.
We have a website, enterprise mission.com, where there are literally thousands, tens of thousands of pages of this information and data and extraordinary photographs and what NASA's not wanted you to see on the moon, on Mars, on the satellites of Jupiter, etc., real ruins, all for absolutely free.
Just log on to www.enterprisemission.com and you don't have to go out and buy the book.
Now, obviously, I'd like you to go do that because the more people who buy books, the more political clout we have in this country to put political pressure on NASA and the White House and the new administration, whichever guy is going to be elected this coming November, to open the doors, open the files, and finally reveal what they've been hiding.
So book sales are important in terms of almost like a calibrator of a political campaign.
But we have all this data also available for absolutely free.
So go to Enterprise and just check it out.
I never asked you this before, but you said that people can check out your material for free.
You have to sell an awful lot of books to make a living.
How are you doing?
How do you make a living, Richard C. Hogan?
By being very, very creative.
Well, you get no argument at all from me on that one.
As we were saying, if you want to ask a question of Richard C. Hogan in the U.S., he's here for you now till the top of the hour.
He's on 0151-708-1059.
Edgar Mitchell was an astronaut in the Apollo program.
Very well-known name.
Has done some speaking recently, but I've seen different reports of what he's said.
I believe that the summation of what he said is that E.T. exists.
Yeah, I've known Ed.
I've been privileged to know Ed Mitchell, who is a brilliant guy, very interesting guy, you know, walks to the beat of a different drummer.
When he went to the moon, he conducted a clandestine, how should I say it, telepathy experiment to try to see if he could transmit between the Earth and the moon Rine cards, the symbolic cards used in ESP experiments, to cooperative receivers, people that were tuned in on the ground.
He then, when he came back from his Apollo 14 mission, which was in 1971, he founded the Noetics Institute north of San Francisco, California on our west coast.
And they've been conducting all kinds of research into consciousness and ESP and other studies, trying to pin down scientifically whether there's more to life than is given in the mainstream texts of physics and chemistry and biology, et cetera, et cetera.
So he's sat on a secret for how many decades now?
Three decades?
Well, it's not really.
He hasn't sat on it.
He's been saying this for decades.
It's just that the way the news cycles go, if there's a slow news day and you happen to hit the right guy and he freaks out, suddenly what you've been saying for years becomes, you know, news.
What Ed has said consistently for years is that when he came back from the moon, because of the cachet that being one of the twelve guys to walk on the moon had given him, that there were certain people, particularly in his hometown of Roswell, New Mexico, which is not very far from where I'm speaking to you tonight, your time.
I'm in Albuquerque, which is two and a half hours north of Roswell, here in the beautiful land of enchantment, as we call it.
Anyway, Ed was born and raised for a time in Roswell.
So some of the old-timers, as he says, you know, would come to him after his moon flight and began to tell him things and told him about the events surrounding the so-called Roswell incident where something crashed in 1947 and the Air Force came and scooped up all the pieces along with the Army, classified everything, told everybody to shut up and not talk about it, and that led to a contemporary mythology, i.e.
that aliens had crash-landed at Roswell and that the government has known about it for 60-some years and is not telling anybody.
That's true, isn't it?
Well, I don't know because I wasn't there.
I mean, I have been to Roswell.
I have stomped around the ostensible crash site.
I've read all the books.
I know a lot of the people that have done the studies.
To me, the preponderance of evidence certainly says that something pretty unusual and mysterious happened.
But can I say for an absolute certainty that it was an alien spacecraft?
No.
There is an equal and interesting competing theory, which is that following World War II, what actually crashed was a very sophisticated black ops project conducted by the Nazis that we were testifying here in the deserts where no one could look and kind of poke around, particularly the Soviets.
So it was one of ours.
So it was one of ours.
Now, I have a paper up on Enterprise, again, for free.
It's the first box on Enterprise.
When you log on to Enterprisemission.com, you will see a big box.
Howard, do you have a computer there in the studio?
I do.
Let's see if I can.
Hold on.
Hold on.
Because at the top, there is a box showing a very young Werner von Braun, who was one of the Nazi paperclip German rocket scientists that we imported after the war and put out in the deserts here in New Mexico to play with high technology and rockets and all that for many years until they all moved to Huntsville,
Alabama to the Redstone Arsenal, which was a U.S. Army base basically designing long-range rockets for the U.S. government about 10 years after the engineers were imported from Germany in Operation Paperclip.
So Von Braun was here in 1947, a few miles away of where this crash ostensibly occurred.
Well, I have it on good authority from a couple of sources that Von Braun and his team were actually called in as experts to go and look at the wreckage.
Now, think, Howard, think.
What would a rocket guy know about extraterrestrial alien flying saucers in 1947?
What you're saying, why would they bring him in?
Why would they bring him in?
But if it was a Nazi craft that was being test-flown by U.S. guys in the wilds of the White Sands Missile Range, which was a top-secret security protected area in the middle of these vast deserts where nobody, prying eyes, certainly no Soviet agents could have been looking, it makes interesting logical sense.
Now, add to that, in the last few months, I received some information from a pretty reliable source that, in fact, when the Army and the Air Force were called in to look at the pieces of whatever had crashed, that on these pieces there were in fact swastikas.
Which was widely reported to be alien symbols.
Which in, well, that's a separate report.
But a swastika could be interpreted as evidence of German origins, Nazi German origins of this technology.
So anyway, there are two tracks you have to keep in mind, and the only track that you ever hear about is the track that it's aliens, aliens, ETs, aliens.
I'm looking at both possibilities, not discounting that something amazing happened and that it was covered up, but in fact, it makes even more sense for the U.S. government to cover up that we basically came within a whisker of losing the war to the Nazis because at the end of the war,
they had developed through black ops projects this incredible technology which now gives us potential window into the secrets of the control of gravity.
In other words, this technology makes completely obsolete rockets per se.
They have anti-gravity.
Maybe, maybe.
These are all maybe.
These are all things that need to be researched.
There's more of them.
I want to get calls onto you to be fair, Richard.
But before you do that, I've got one more thing.
If you go to Enterprise and you look at the first box, the one with that young Wernher von Braun standing at the blackboard drawing an orbit of an Earth satellite, we have an astonishing paper that I've been working on for months now called Wernher von Braun's Secret, 50-Year Old Secret.
Because what we have discovered is that when they launched the first Earth satellite, Explorer 1, in January of 1958, what Wernher von Braun and his colleagues discovered, to their shock and horror and bafflement, was that that satellite exhibited bizarre anti-gravity properties.
And we document the entire history in that first piece of a three-part paper, which is going to be published over the next month or so.
So part one is up there, Werner von Braun's 50-year-old secret, which is the background to why he may have been called in even earlier to look at something that's crashed here in the deserts that may in fact have been not the project.
Understood.
I have three words to say to you.
Oh my God.
Let's get to the call.
Here's Dan in Brenton.
Dan, thank you for holding on, my friend.
Richard P. Hogan's listening to you.
What do you want to say to him?
Hi, Howard.
Hi, Richard.
You're right.
It's just a couple of things, to be honest.
The first thing that I was going to mention is I'm not religious in any way, shape, or form.
But thousands of years ago, you used to have drawings in caves and so on and so forth that would be what can only be described as things like spaceships.
Then you can look at items within the Bible, passages, which things like when John said that Jesus took him up and he showed him various sites all over the world.
He showed him deserts and mountaintops and areas where it was covered all in white.
Now, I think that is extremely strange.
When you look at both of things I've just told you, it would point to something that may describe that things from outer space or beings, whatever you want to call it, could have been around them.
Fascinating point, Dan.
What do you think, Richard?
Well, I think he's definitely got a point.
Look, there's a body of evidence done by serious researchers that indicates that throughout human history, even maybe prehistory where you have cave drawings and things like that, people have seen things that look pretty technological.
For instance, here in the southwest, you know, where the Anasazi Indians used to live, you can go to places not very far from where I'm talking to you tonight, and you can see these enormous red ochre paintings on the sides of cliffs, and some of them look incredibly alien and non-earthly and otherworldly.
And they've been dismissed by, you know, anthropologists as gods and totems.
But in fact, they don't know.
So there is...
who went somewhere else and have basically been scouting and looking us over for thousands, if not even millions of years.
Dan in Prenton, what do you make of that?
I totally, totally agree.
I think it's very peculiar, but I think a lot of it, when you would say to somebody, or if you were to speak like we are on a radio station, you'll always get the masses of people who will disagree because they've been conditioned by society to think that anything like that is totally ridiculous.
And you shouldn't believe things like that, which I think is partly because of the way government and society condition people.
People think it's ridiculous to think anything like that.
What do you think about that, Richard?
That ties in with what you've been saying, doesn't it?
Well, let me make one small caveat to what Picola just said.
I think that things are changing radically.
We have over here very efficient polling services that, because in political years, they do daily polls, hourly polls, weekly polls, monthly polls.
And, you know, some of the polling has actually been looking at questions on public policy like Social Security.
And when they do a question to people, which do you believe in more, that when you retire at 65, you will be able to go on Social Security or that UFOs exist?
More people in the United States now answer that they think UFOs are real, namely that extraterrestrial intelligence is sniffing around the earth that think they're going to get Social Security when they retire.
Isn't that just because they go to the movies and watch the TV?
Well, but it doesn't matter where your belief systems come from.
The fact that people are open to the idea means that the public is light years ahead of the pundits and the public policy people and the politicians.
And that's why I think with appropriate political pressure, we have a real shot now in the next administration of getting a reversal of this bizarre NASA policy of legally hiding all the good stuff.
Do you think the rest of the world will probably follow suit?
That's interesting.
So you think that if Obama gets in, and we don't know whether he will, but it looks like he might, he might open up the files, clear the way.
Maybe.
I think either presidential candidate, I mean, there are some interesting indications from McCain that he is very bullish on going to the moon and Mars and wants to aggressively pursue what George Bush has kind of tepidly begun and kind of left hanging.
And the other day, Senator Obama, in a speech, resoundingly came out not only in favor of support of NASA, aggressive in terms of its going back to the moon, but he also specifically mentioned Mars and the need to, you know, reinvigorate a NASA of the 1960s when John Kennedy used it very effectively to both advance a major geopolitical agenda of detente with the Russians,
which is told in great detail in Dark Mission, as well as to find things that they then promptly classified.
And there is some suspicion on the part of myself and my colleague Mike Berra that this may have been the reason that John Kennedy was killed, that he was willing to share what NASA found on the moon with the Russians, with the Soviets.
And given that the Russians were the archenemies of the Nazis who'd been brought in to NASA and determined a lot of its policies in those days, they may have simply said that was a step too far and they got rid of him because they did not want to share this information with anybody.
Quick conspiracy theory.
Let's get to another call.
0151-708-1059 if you want to get involved in this.
This is Richard C. Hogan we're talking to in the United States.
He is, for my money, the best space expert, the most interesting person to talk about space that you could ever find in this world of ours.
And conspiracy theorists.
We had a matter of time.
Don't get a throwaway line, Howard.
You actually stepped on real data.
Go read the book and see the evidence that we put forward.
At Enterprise Mission.
enterprise mission.com people dismissing ideas as quote conspiracy theories that's what the other guys have done to politically devalue finding out the truth remember conspiracies are real if they weren't real you wouldn't have scotland yard we We wouldn't have the FBI.
Late nights a day a week of the unexplained with Howard Hughes on City Talk 105.9.
City Talk 105.9, The Voice of Liverpool.
I'm Howard Hughes, filling in for The Last Night In for Pete Price, who returns next week.
We're talking to Peggy Sue, the woman immortalized by the Buddy Holly record, the woman who had a relationship with Buddy Holly that, and this is the interesting part here, continues, she says to this day.
Now, I have read an awful lot of stuff about you saying that you believe you are still in contact beyond the grave with Buddy Holly.
How's that?
I think we were soulmates, and I think that when you meet somebody that you had that special connection with, and let me define soulmate for you.
It's somebody that you can be perfectly honest with and who likes the same things that you like, but yet you still work out your problems the same way.
Only you work them out together.
So there's just a lot of camaraderie there.
It's a feeling that just does not go away.
And, you know, maybe that's, and I guess that's why they refer to it as soul energy, soulmates.
And what sometimes they call beyond the grave the love link.
You know, the thing that cannot be broken, they claim, between somebody who's died and somebody who's here.
If you loved each other that much in life and you were so attuned and so spiritually connected, even death doesn't break that, they say.
I don't think it does.
So how did you become aware that Buddy Holly was still in contact?
How long after that terrible tragedy?
I have the good luck or the good fortune or a blessing that God gave me, but I have these little things that happen to me all the time that, you know, it's like I'll look up and I'll see somebody.
And I started to fly.
I had come to Lubbock to take care of my mother.
She was having an operation.
And I was on the plane to leave to go back to California.
And I had shut my eyes for just a second.
And when I did, I saw Buddy's face and his glasses, and he was smiling.
And this wasn't too long before I ended up moving back to Lubbock.
So you think that was some kind of omen or sign?
I think it is.
I think it's kind of an omen.
And I did.
I moved back to Lubbock, and when I came back, I realized that there had been no music festival going here, and I got involved in trying to pull one together.
Because here in Liverpool, we immortalize the Beatles all the time.
We've only just done so recently.
So, of course, Lubbock, Texas should have had something for Buddy.
Absolutely.
And we have so many wonderful visitors from your country that come over here.
And I wanted the museum.
I wanted a festival.
Of course, we don't have one, but we tried.
But you're working on it.
Well, we're still working on it.
So you think that he's behind all of that?
I think the energy is.
I think Bob Dylan, you know, he received a Grammy a few years back for a rock and roll song that he did.
And forgive me, I forget the title.
But when he went to accept the Grammy, he said to everybody, he said, I wasn't alone in the recording studio, Buddy Holly was there.
And I knew exactly what he meant.
I don't know how many times being creative myself in writing that I've experienced that same thing.
But does it disturb you when you get told about these rock and roll stories of him being in some way influential in the deaths of some people like Mark Bolan, who we said when he was killed in a car crash in Barnes in London in 77, was wearing a badge that said every day is a holiday?
Does it distress me?
No, I understand.
I guess I understand the love of the music and what Buddy brought with him and his energy.
How else has he contacted you?
That's basically other than in a dream.
Tell me about that.
The dreams will start if there's something that's about to happen that I didn't think was going to happen and I end up going to do it.
Do you understand what I mean?
I do.
It can be a booking.
It can be a booking.
Or it can be a house.
So it helps you make the decision.
It does.
It's like a pre-warning.
Can you ask buddy things?
If there is something that's perturbing, disturbing, worrying you, can you look up to the skies and say, buddy, what would you do?
What should I do?
Well, I tell you what I do is that I ask right before I go to sleep, I ask the question that I want answered.
And then do you dream the answer?
I usually dream the answer.
Can you do that for people other than yourself?
I've never tried it.
Would you like to?
Tell me what happens.
I would.
I would like to try that.
I just wonder, I mean, not being, I don't want to be flip about it.
This isn't the point of this because I think it's intriguing what you're telling me.
But, you know, you could ask him perhaps if Obama would win the presidency or something like that.
Would you not do that?
I can.
I can try that.
I just never have done that.
But you obviously feel that this man who was close to you in life and was a soulmate in life remains a soulmate even though he's not in life.
I do believe that, just like I believe other people that I have loved that I'm close to are still there.
I still have that communication with.
And do you think that he is influencing, because he's influencing you, do you think that he might be influencing music now?
Like you told me the studio session where Dylan said buddy was in the room with me there.
I think that people that listen, musicians especially the artist, that are especially involved in music is their business, okay?
I think that they listen to the music so well that I think that, yeah, creativity comes from that.
And I think that's helping.
Do you think when you pass, and I hope that will be many, many, many years from now.
Well, I hope not too many.
Okay, because you want to see him sooner.
Now, I was going to ask you: do you think that you're going to see him when you go there?
I do.
Okay, and you want it to be sooner.
You want to go sooner so that you'll see him sooner.
No, I didn't say that.
I just don't want to live to be 100.
Okay.
I can definitely sympathize with you.
As long as I can pack a suitcase and still travel and do all the things I do, then I'm just fine.
But if I ever get to the point that I can't do that.
You want to go?
I want to go.
And you know that there's a great big reward waiting for you because he's going to be there.
Well, I hope lots of them.
Yes.
What's the first thing that you will say to him when you meet him again?
I guess that I always will wonder what happened to the airplane.
You see, when they took off, there was no storm.
You've read all your life that there was a storm there.
The storm was coming in to where they were going, not where they were taking off.
And I have never been convinced that that airplane was just the pilot's error.
I just never have been convinced of that.
So if it wasn't pilot error, what was it?
Aren't there reports of a gun on board?
There was a gun on board, and it was Buddy's gun.
The gun was not shot, to my knowledge.
And let me tell you, the reason that Buddy carried a gun is because he also had a lot of cash.
They would get paid in cash.
A lot of people got paid that way in those days, didn't they?
I mean, even today, I think a lot of rockers, the old guys, still want a wheelbarrow of cash at the end of the gig.
Yes, a lot of them are paid in cash.
Chuck Berry.
Chuck Berry is definitely one of those people.
That's the only way he'll be paid.
Yeah.
So you being reunited with him is going to happen, and you want the answer first to the question of how did that plane crash?
Because we still don't know that.
I have researched that.
I learned to fly a bonanza and take off and land because I was so scared of it.
And I want to know what really happened.
Have you ever heard of a thing called remote viewing?
I have.
I know one of the world's foremost.
He claims to be Major Ed Dames, who is a remote viewer, who I think may have looked into this subject.
And I just think that if you could remote review, which I can't, or I've never tried, but I just think that perhaps we could see exactly what happened to that aircraft.
And I think that's possible.
So the contact you have with Buddy now, it obviously gives you a lot of comfort.
Yes, it does.
And since the death of Buddy, what's gone on in your life?
What have you done personally?
Oh, I remarried.
I divorced Jerry Allison, and I wrote a book from 1957 to 1967.
And they're memoirs, and they're a diary that I kept on the road.
And so I just finished the book, and it's just now out.
It's Whatever Happened to Piggy Sue, by the way, which is a song titled from You're Tim Rice in England and Bobby B. So I remarried.
Let me back up a little bit.
I remarried and had my family, and they're raised.
And then I moved home to take care of my mother, who I lost.
And that's where I am now.
I'm in Lubbock.
But this towering character, even though he wasn't a tall, towering guy, was he, this towering figure of a person is still there behind you.
Well, he's six foot.
I think that's tall.
Okay.
You know, I always see Buddy Holly.
When you see him on the TV on the old footage, I always assume that he was a short guy.
He was six foot tall.
Well, you know, they look short, but they weren't.
They weren't.
Well, there's something that I've learned.
Jerry Allison was almost six foot, and Buddy was just about an inch or so taller than Jerry.
And then Joe B was short, but Nikki Sullivan was not short.
He was almost six foot.
Have you been to mediums and psychics trying to contact him?
I haven't.
I have not.
Is it something you might think about doing, or is it something you don't want to do?
I think I think about doing, yes.
We have a very good lady here in Liverpool if you're over.
Her name is Phoebe.
And she's a guest on this show quite often.
She has amazing perception.
So if you wanted to, I could put you in touch with Phoebe.
Oh, I'd love to.
Yes, I'd love to do that.
I'm very grateful to you, Peggy Sue, for telling us the story.
When you go places and they ask you your name and you say, my name is Peggy Sue, do they still go, if you knew, Peggy Sue?
Yes, they do.
I'm sorry for singing the song like that.
That is sacrilege, isn't it?
Yes, they do.
Yes, they do.
Are you the real one?
And what do they say?
How do they look when you say, well, in fact, I am?
They're always very happy.
They break into a very large smile.
So it's a very pleasant experience.
And for you, this has definitely enriched your life by the sounds of it.
You wouldn't have been the same person.
Of course, I have tons of friends that I don't think I would have had if it weren't for the music and Buddy Holly.
And I have been able to travel and to do all sorts of things.
And so, oh, absolutely.
Peggy Sugarin, it's been a delight to talk to you in Lubbock, Texas.
How's the weather there?
It's very hot today.
We're going to have some rain.
Okay, well, I wish you well.
I know that you go around the country, don't you, in the U.S., talking about all of this.
I do.
I'm leaving for Rio Dosa, New Mexico, and I'm going to be appearing with the Fireballs, George Tomsco and Stan, at the Indian Annie's Dinner Theater.
So we'll be up there for a couple of days.
Well, I have to tell you, if you've never been to Liverpool, I don't know if you have.
I haven't, and I'm dying to come.
You have to, because, number one, at the moment, this is the city of culture, 2008 is Liverpool.
And the city is electric and alive and has been redeveloped fantastically.
I mean, I was born and brought up here, moved away and worked for a long time, and have come back recently to rediscover My home city, and it is such an amazing place.
But the one thing here that you are never very far away from is that musical heritage.
These people here are funny, creative, and above all, they are musical.
You know, that's why the Beatles came from here and so many other acts.
So, you would be welcomed here with open arms.
Well, I just am so impressed with Liverpool and England anyway.
I've only been to England once, but it's just a wonderful place.
And everybody in Liverpool has done a very good job at keeping the music and keeping the spirit.
And I had heard something from somebody not too long ago, and they said, yes, oh, yeah, Liverpool is the spiritual birthplace of Buddy Hawley.
And I thought that was very nice.
Well, partly because of the connection with Lennon and McCartney, both heavily, heavily influenced by Buddy.
So, Peggy Sue, I think you've got to come here.
Make the trip.
Make it 2009.
If you could do it this year, we'll welcome you.
We'll welcome you here at this radio station.
We'll give you a tour of the place, okay?
Oh, I'd love it.
I'd love it.
And thank you, Howard, for having me.
Peggy Sue Guerin, it's been an absolute delight to talk to you.
I found you sip by chance through a friend of a friend of a friend, and here we are talking.
And I'm amazed that we're doing it.
Thank you very, very.
Have a great afternoon.
Thank you.
The original Peggy Sue from Lubbock, Texas, the man about whom Buddy Holly wrote that song.
What a story.
My name is Howard Hughes, and this is City Talk 105.9, The Voice of Liverpool.
A week of the unexplained on City Talk 105.9.
And that's it.
That ends this special edition of The Unexplained.
Thank you very much for being part of this.
Please keep your emails coming at unexplainedh at yahoo.co.uk.
That is unexplainedh at yahoo.co.uk.
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And also thank you to Martin for the new theme tune that he's producing at the moment and the current theme tune.
Martin, we couldn't do this without you.
And thank you to you for listening again.
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