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July 6, 2007 - The Unexplained - Howard Hughes
01:01:29
Edition 6 - Roswell Special Edition

An Unexplained Special - We link up to Roswell - the site of the famous "UFO Crash" 60 yearson.

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Across the UK and around the world on the internet, my name is Howard Hughes and this is The Unexplained.
And thank you again for finding the show.
However, you've done it, whether you've subscribed in iTunes, which I know a lot of you are doing, more people than ever are doing that now.
Whether you've done a search on my name and just happen to come up with it in Google or Yahoo or whatever search engine that you're using these days, however you've done it, I'm very grateful.
You know, the show is not advertised or publicized in any way.
I can't afford to do that.
There isn't a budget for advertising.
I've mentioned it in a couple of interviews about other things that I've done, but it really hasn't had the kind of coverage that perhaps it needs to get it to the next level.
And we're working on that one.
I'm working on a few ideas for the show, and I'm giving more time to it too.
And more about that in due course.
I can't tell you about what I plan to do, but it will have an impact on this show and the number of times it's done and the way that I do it.
And that is all I can say about that for right now.
Intrigue day.
Thank you very much to Pat and to Stuart and Jasper and Keith and Steve and Victoria and Mark and Adam and Bob and Jay.
Just a few of the names who've emailed in the last week or 10 days or so about the show.
You've given me some ideas for things that I can do.
I will get on those.
There's one in particular that most of these things that we talk about, I've heard something about at some time.
Because, you know, as a journalist, you tend to come across most things and there's almost nothing new.
This particular topic, though, is new.
And wow, we talk conspiracy theories.
It's a pretty big one, but I'll tell you about that in a future show.
We're here on this show to talk about one topic and one topic only.
Usually with the show, I'll do a miscellany of topics.
I'll perhaps have three or four different guests talking about different things.
Maybe we'll talk about ghost hunting and then we'll harden it up and we'll talk about a conspiracy theory and conclude on something else.
We're not going to do that this time because I'm recording this show in the afternoon in July 2007, the beginning of the month, a month that has brought a lot of wacky weather to the UK.
We've just finished one thunderstorm.
I think we're heading for another, but we've had almost monsoonal rain here for some bizarre reason.
And that is what Major Ed Dames told us in a past show, didn't he?
That we're going to have some really weird weather here in the UK and around the world.
And we're certainly getting it.
So we're doing this show now.
It is July 2007 and it is the 60th anniversary of Roswell.
If you've ever bought a newspaper in the UK, certainly at the weekend, and if it's a dull weekend where there is not major crime or celebrities doing something, if it's one of those weekends, perhaps it's midsummer, you can bet your bottom dollar that the newspaper will either rediscover crop circles, and we've had a few of those this summer, big ones, or they'll find something about ufology.
They'll find somebody who's making a claim.
But have you noticed a big, big change in the way these things are being done?
When I first started reading newspapers in my teens about ufology and UFO stories, they were usually about people who were cast as wackos.
You know, people who believed that there were aliens from outer space visiting this planet and they look like this.
And here's a sketch that this person's done.
And the assumption being, isn't this person nuts?
That is not happening anymore for a whole variety of reasons.
People are starting for very, very good reasons, and those reasons are evidential.
In other words, the evidence is there.
People are starting to buy into this like they never did before.
And one little story, something that we'll talk about a little bit later in this program, but a couple of months ago, there was a UFO sighting a pilot near the little island of Jersey.
Actually, Guernsey, which is the sister island to Jersey, out in the Channel Islands, which are closer to France than Britain, but they're British territory, okay?
Little plane full of passengers, flying there.
The pilot looks across and he sees something that he later realizes has to be a mile wide in the sky.
We have heard these things before, but it's not often that the pilot actually goes on the local television news in Guernsey and Jersey and admits it and says, I was scared.
I needed, and this is a quote, a cup of tea when I got that plane down to calm down from all of this.
Now that guy went public in the past, a lot of these people, especially wearing uniforms, doing public jobs, did not admit what they'd seen.
This man did.
I have to say, subsequently, I tried to interview him.
And by that stage, I think he'd done so many local interviews, he didn't want to do it.
His airline didn't seem to be interested in doing it.
So that is where I thought the story stopped.
Not so.
That was about two months ago.
A few days ago, I'm picking up one of the UK papers, one of the big nationals here, and guess what?
The story appears again.
UFO, mile wide, seen near the Channel Islands by a pilot, credible witness.
And this time they made mention of a second pilot too.
Very interesting in the way that news is done, and I've been working in news all my career.
Sometimes a story will appear, and perhaps if the organization thinks it can get away with it, they'll put another spin on the story, try and find a new line to it, or maybe just do it as it was done before, represent it, repackage it, and put it out there again.
That seems to have happened here.
These stories, they never really make the massive, big headlines that you think they're going to.
Sometimes I'll see a UFO story and I'll think, that one is going to change everybody's perceptions of that one's front page news, and it never really quite happens.
But it is interesting the way these stories are being presented these days in a completely different way.
We're not talking about nutcases and wackos and weird people.
We're talking about people who actually are credible and do professional jobs and are not expecting this kind of thing and have never dabbled in ufology and have never played with Ouija porns or done anything like that.
We're talking about credible people.
Isn't that interesting?
Well, the 60th anniversary of Roswell is the time of the Roswell Festival, which is a regular event there.
But of course, this one has to be special because of those 60 years since the incident where something, they say, crashed and aliens were ejected from it and all the evidence was covered up or was it.
More about this is coming out all the time.
And this year, particularly, there are some confessions from a man who was part of it all, who's died, but put down a sworn affidavit before his death to be opened after his death, saying, actually, there was more to this than I was able to tell you at the time.
Somebody who's there and we're going to talk to right now is my good friend Paola Harris, Italian-American UFO investigator, a woman who's given her life to the entire topic of ufology, does a lot of writing about it.
You'll see many references to her on the internet.
She's been on this show a number of times before, and she's there for the Roswell Festival.
And with a bit of luck, even though we are eight hours, I think it is, in front of her in Roswell, New Mexico, if I switch the switch here and open up the phone, Paula Harris should be there.
Paula, are you there?
Yes, Howard.
I'm in Roswell.
This is the 4th of July.
Big party here in Roswell.
We're going to have fireworks tonight.
But everybody is really here for the 60th anniversary of the Roswell crash.
Hey, Paola, you've got to be very, very careful.
I would have thought if you have fireworks in Roswell, because people are going to be taking photographs, and you never know what's going to happen to those.
Well, that would be the ultimate joke, Howard.
You know, I've got a confession to make.
Ufology used to be full of people who, still is, I guess, full of people who fake stuff.
And I have to admit, and this is the first time I've ever admitted it, that at the age of 11, a group of my friends at school, we got a frisbee.
Do you have frisbees in the US up there?
Oh, absolutely.
They probably came from there.
I thought they did.
We got a frisbee, and we threw it up in the air.
We took a picture of it.
We took it to the local paper.
We said we saw this in the sky over Liverpool.
Do you know something?
They put it on the front page.
And I have to live that down even to this day.
Shame on you.
Shame on me.
It makes our job as journalists, especially this kind of ruler journalist.
I was only 11, Pala, and I got my name in the paper, Pala, the first time.
Gee, but I'm so very sorry.
And I think I just had to admit that to somebody, Pala, you know, I had to tell somebody.
Well, the world is full of this kind of hoaxing, and it makes our job so hard.
Well, it does.
And what I was saying in my intro to this edition of The Unexplained, I think, counts here.
The fact of the matter is that up until now, up until the last year or two, the newspapers, certainly in the UK, and you know what British tabloid newspapers are like, always did stories about UFOs and aliens as if they were about lunatic people who've had hallucinations, taken a few too many drugs, had a bit too much beer or whatever.
That has changed in the last couple of years, and I'm sure that perception is not just in my head.
I'm sure that's for real.
It's true.
Most of my witnesses, and I do expert witness testimony, or what we call whistleblower testimony, our military.
And these military people are patriots.
And these military people, when they get to be a certain age, feel like they need to tell the truth because the truth is so important to the future generations and future decision-making.
It's an exopolitical situation.
So this is something that I've talked with Nick Pope about.
You know, Nick Pope, the UFO expert from the UK.
He's a friend of mine.
Well, Nick, I think, is possibly with you there in Roswell, but whatever.
Nick, of course, was employed by the Ministry of Defense here to investigate these things, and he always took a very impartial and very investigative line.
But this is something that Nick mentioned to me the last time we spoke.
That is how the whole thing is being played these days.
Well, that's how it should be played.
This is not a joke.
This is a situation where people need to know who the visitors are, the visitations, the craft.
Is the craft our stuff or their stuff?
And if it comes from somewhere else, what are the implications?
If nothing else, telling the truth would help us with matters of national security.
Now, let's just take you down a little cul-de-sac, as we say here, a little sidetrack.
Because you were based in Rome, and when we first did radio together, I was fascinated by this American-Italian lady who lived in Rome, and there have been all sorts of claims down the years about the Vatican Observatory, what are they doing with their eyes on space, and I thought, this lady is in pole position to find out something big.
And now you've gone and left, you've gone back to the U.S. Why is that?
Well, I was 14 years in Rome.
Originally, you know that we need to have another job.
You can't do a life style of UFO research or research into the paranormal and have it be a salary or anything.
So I was teaching ancient history and photojournalism and writing for magazines in Rome for 14 years.
So Rome was my base of operation, and also I was responsible for bringing top names like John Mack, Jesse Marcel Jr., Linda Moulton Howe, so many people over to Rome to speak.
So that was my job originally.
Now time has passed and I think I need to be in a quieter, more meditative place.
I need to be in the mountains, in the Rocky Mountains.
I need to be in a place where I can write a third book.
I've written a brand new second book called Exopolitics.
How do you speak to a ball of light?
I wanted to get that in there.
So as you get older, Howard, you tend to go to places that are more meditative, more a landscape that is much more close to how you are inside.
I can't live in downtown Rome.
Exactly where you are right now.
And that I think as you do get older, you do start to think about, okay, where is the best place, where is the best seed bed for my ideas and the stuff that I do?
So I fully appreciate that.
But all these people who you are involved with, all of those people, don't they?
And I've worked as a journalist and these people touch my life insofar as they tell me their stories.
But they all shape your view of this subject, don't they?
All of the people that you met, I mean, if you met Jesse Marcel Jr., guy whose father was involved directly with the Roswell incident, then you're getting as close to the source as you can.
Yes, Howard, and it's funny you should mention that because I'm meeting them for breakfast in about an hour.
Jesse Marcel Jr. came to my home for a week because I had him speak just before I left.
It was my goodbye to Rome.
I wanted, and Jesse Marcel Jr. starts his speech with, I am one of the lucky ones.
I know we are not alone because I touched the Roswell material.
And it was not a weather balloon.
My father was an intelligence and knew the difference between a weather balloon and something that came from outer space.
Well, before we get into the meat of talking about the festival and all the people who are there, including him, have you ever mentioned that movie to him?
I've got the movie Roswell, and, you know, my heart bled for his poor father and how he was effectively discredited because he knew the truth, but wasn't allowed to tell it and had to watch a cover-up, it is claimed in the movie, be perpetrated all around him, something that he had to live with for decades.
What was his view of the movie?
Well, we used that movie as his intro.
We took pieces of the clips of the movie.
That was done by Paul Davids, who is a very good friend of mine.
He is Also in Roswell, and it's very sad.
I mean, the idea, the look on Jesse Marcel, who was the intelligence officer who brought home the pieces to have his family see, the look on his face in that film, and that was, you know, I think it was Kyle, was that Kyle McLaughlin and Martin Sheen that did, that were the protagonists of the film?
I mean, it was very neatly acted.
It was very well done.
It was very, very well done because it was pain.
Living with pain and living with having to not tell the truth about this.
It must have happened to Walter Hought, too, that just had the affidavit after his death released.
Well, that gets us right into the festival now because this festival, more than any of the others, there have been, I don't know how many Roswell festivals there have been, but it's almost like the place is a tourist attraction these days.
But the Walter Hout confession is the thing that is perhaps the focus of everybody's minds now.
I mean, it's so big, and we'll explain what it is in just a second, that it's made the newspapers.
I've got the London Evening Standard right here.
And it appeared there on the 30th of June.
And they say in the top line of the story, exactly 60 years ago, a light aircraft was flying over the Cascade Mountains in Washington state, height of around 10,000 meters.
To cut a long story short, a pilot had a sighting of some stuff in the sky.
Then later, two weeks later, after this man, his name was Arnold, after his sighting, happens the Roswell crash incident.
And, you know, it's getting that kind of coverage.
Walter Hout, though, is the man who is the lynchpin of all of this, isn't he?
Who was he, and why is his involvement so poignant now?
Well, Walter Hout was the information officer.
He was a military information officer, and he was told by Colonel Blanchard.
First of all, he got the report.
There were two different crash sites.
And he was told by Colonel Blanchard he could release the fact that there was a flying saucer crash in a certain crash site so they would not look at the second crash site.
So Blanchard was his boss, and this was the beginning of the cover-up, yeah?
Right.
And so what happened was that he did release it to the world, but they took it back within, I don't know, 24 hours that it was a weather balloon.
He released it first, that they had a crash saucer, and of course we've got that famous newspaper headline.
We have it.
You can buy the Roswell Daily Record here with it on it because they're selling it.
Why doesn't that surprise me?
And then, you know, Walter was told to take it back.
Now, we knew Walter was told to do these things.
We knew that Walter knew it was real, but we did not know that Walter Hawt actually walked into the hangar, saw what he called an egg-shaped UFO and two bodies under our tropoleon, two four feet tall bodies with big heads.
He saw them.
This is something he could not talk about, so he left a statement done in 2002 to be opened after his death, and that's why, and he died last year, so that's why this statement has been opened and given to the world on the 60th anniversary.
What does it say exactly?
Well, the statement says that he was asked by Colonel Blanchard to release the fact that they had a crash disc.
That then they had to take back the story because the reason why they did it, there were two crash sites and they were trying to clean them up the best they could.
I mean, I heard that it was like vacuuming up every single solitary piece.
He talks in the statement that he was present at a meeting where they passed the pieces around that was thin as tinfoil but very much stronger, that there were symbols on the piece that Walter Haut saw, and that basically these pieces that were passed around a table at a meeting were pieces from the crash that they didn't want anybody to have.
They didn't want civilians out there.
And the cover story for this was that they were weather balloons that were made of what you call aluminum, we call aluminium foil, yeah?
Yes, with balsa wood, can you imagine?
They're still playing that on major news stations here in America.
I saw this talked about on CNN a year ago, and I felt like saying, come on, get off this because the people who were dealing with Roswell, like Marcel, were intelligence officers.
But we've got to think back 60 years now, and the nature of the media is so different.
Back then, the whole pace of everything, even in America where life has always been fast, but the whole pace of everything was slower.
We didn't have instant replays.
We didn't have instant communication.
So it would be possible to retract a story within 24 hours, which has given you enough thinking time to come up with another story and tell the world something else.
Yeah, and that was what happened.
And then there was another story, the 50th, that those were crash dummies, wooden crash dummies that we're seeing.
The Air Force released that as if that would help things because crash dummies were not even invented when Roswell happened.
But all of this not helped by little bits of film like that alien autopsy thing that came out a few years ago where we saw what purported to be an autopsy being done on creatures.
And it looked, well, it looked like a fake and it turned out to be one.
Yes, but there is a problem with the alien autopsy and that there are some real frames shoved into the fake frames.
Which is the whole history of ufology, Howard.
The disinformation is in there with the real stuff.
And is that always going to be the problem or are we now at the stages?
especially with this Walter Hout effective confession are we now at the stage where a corner has been turned?
I have to say when I read this stuff on the net my heart leapt.
I thought, you know, how many decades have I been interested in all this?
Quite a few.
I thought this is the point now.
This is the pivot.
This is where it's going to swing.
Well, yes, because disclosure will happen.
We have no choice.
I mean when a UFO sits over O'Hare Airport, the United Airlines terminal, when it sits over there for that amount of time and all the pilots and all the people that work at an airport are looking at it, then we have, and we have no control over it sitting there on November 7, 2006.
And I reported that in the news here in London.
Again, a typical UFO story, though.
It's the kind of thing that is, these days, it's not laughed at exactly, but it's done in passing in the news.
It's done in two very quick lines.
And then what else is happening?
Let's go under the sports.
Let's do the weather forecast, whatever.
Well, when you have a UK pilot that has a sighting of a mile along UFO, you have a very credible witness.
Pilots know what they're looking at, and you just had that story.
So people who are collecting information are keeping this on the back burner.
We did, and that story, which I talked about at the top of this show, a story, the Channel Islands is a British territory.
It's quite a long way from Britain.
It's closer to France, but traditionally we own the place.
And there are lots of flights there.
It's a bit of a tax haven for people.
And there's a lot of traffic by sea and by air there.
And this pilot reported that he'd seen something that he later worked out in his head.
It didn't occur to him at the time, apparently.
And I've seen the local television interview with him.
His name, I think, was Bowyer, his Bowyer.
And he said that I later worked out that this thing was a mile wide, and I was so shaken that what I needed after I'd seen this was a cup of tea.
Now, you can tell when people are not quite telling the truth, when they're being, what we say here in the UK, economical with the truth.
This man was absolutely sincere, and it was clear at the time of the television interview, which was a little while after the actual sighting itself, you could see that he was still shaking, even remembering it.
But interestingly, Paola, I have tried to get hold of him, and believe me, I'm like a dog with a bone, when I get a subject that I want to talk to, I do everything I can to get hold of them.
Well, there was no getting hold of this guy.
He's not available for interview now.
Well, he's been shut down.
I mean, because he's credible.
If he weren't credible, if he was some lunatic, they'd let him speak like crazy.
A pilot is a credible witness.
A military pilot is even more credible, and there's so many of them.
I thought one of two things.
My professional sense made me think, first of all, somebody doesn't want this guy to speak.
And then I thought, well, maybe he just hasn't got the time or he's tired of it.
And unfortunately, that particular jury, until we know more, will have to stay out.
But it's very frustrating for those of us who'd like to ask him.
And if he's listening to this, you know, call me anytime in London.
Contact me through the website.
Well, I'll pass it on to you, and I'm sure vice versa.
But there are just a few questions that were not asked by the general reporter on television over there that I would dearly, dearly like to ask this man.
One of the things I'd like to ask him is, has there been any comeback from that?
Is he having dreams about it?
Has he had any sense of contact?
Sometimes people in these situations do.
A lot of times they do.
You're absolutely right, Howard.
But my job as a reporter and my job, my website is www.p-a-olaharris.com, and it's in four languages.
I reported that immediately.
That went out in four different languages, and my job is to report it.
So what we did, we did our job.
We reported this.
The man isn't making it up because I wouldn't want to be involved in this phenomenon that is so ridiculed unless it was real.
I think it's clear the guy wasn't making it up.
It was a fascinating story.
And again, it wasn't treated in the kind of gee whiz, isn't this wacko?
And the guy actually must have seen something that he assumed was this and it wasn't really.
It was treated pretty seriously.
I was quite impressed, even though it was local reporting and they just have to tell the story in three minutes and get on to something else.
I was quite impressed with the way that it was handled.
But it was also in the news.
I mean, the print.
Now, what does that tell you, Doc?
What does that tell you?
Paola, it was in print media, but let me tell you once again, you know the story of the Phoenix Lights big American case that appeared briefly and then disappeared and then came back?
Same thing with this Channel Islands UFO.
This story from like two months or so ago reappeared in the papers here a few days ago.
Same story.
Well, enough people read it.
I mean, I think there's a slow process release of information.
When it's in print, just like the Roswell incident was in print so nobody could forget it, it means that someone is releasing it slowly.
It's not going to be a big deal.
It's not going to be with the trumpets.
But the people that are paying attention, and not everybody wants to pay attention, but there are people that are paying attention, are seeing this.
Well, I find it fascinating the way the process works.
I don't entirely understand.
If you were a conspiracy theorist, you would say that what happens all the time is news management.
And to tell you the truth, over the amount of time that I've been doing this kind of stuff and leaving aside the work that I do in straight ordinary news reporting, I'm starting to think that maybe that is the case and that everything we do get to hear is not controlled.
That's a bad word.
We're a free country and so are you.
But is managed, is spun.
Well, it has to be because they can't handle the truth.
I mean, what do you do if the whole entire world digests the fact that we are not alone, that we've had visitations, that they aren't just now, they've been since the beginning of our history?
It changes everything.
So instead of changing the paradigm, they're giving you little droplets of truth so that if anything major does happen that they can't control, for instance, if 10 UFOs go over major international airports, they'll say, well, we already told you so, we reported the stories.
But there was a man called Paul Hellier.
You know this man, ex-Canadian Defense Minister.
And he did some media appearances in Canada where he basically said, I'm an old man now, and I want to tell you that I believe there is more to all of this.
And I had access to the files and the documents and I had the meetings.
More to all of this than meets the eye.
Well, I made it my business through a contact of the CBC in Canada to get phone numbers for Paul Hellier.
And here in the UK, I did the first, and I think up to now only radio interview with Paul Hellier.
And I found it fascinating.
And I thought the whole world is going to pick up this interview.
All the media in the UK is going to be onto me for clips of this interview.
The newspapers are going to do something about it.
Guess what happened?
Nothing.
Well, my interview of Paul Hellier, however, has been translated into seven languages and has been in major magazines, the last one in Norway.
And my interview of Paul Hellier is on YouTube.
It's unfortunate.
Maybe it's just the UK.
You were the one to deal with this because you got on it right away, Howard.
It was timing.
You went straight there when it happened.
I think maybe that's part of the problem.
The problem is that some of this stuff can get lost in the fog.
Yeah, well, you called him immediately because after that, Paul Hellyer didn't want to do any more interviews because it wasn't that simple.
People were calling him an old man.
They were calling him the fact that they were not looking at him seriously.
But he's ex-minister of defense.
We're talking about a very credible person.
And the thing about Paul Hellier, in my interview with him, he says that the implications of these visitations are that these people seem to be non-hostile, they seem to be benign.
So why are we building huge missile systems to shoot them out of the skies?
I think his point is well taken.
It's an exopolitical point.
I think you did a great job because you got on it really as fast as you possibly could.
But I remember asking him because you're taught the discipline of interviews and you have to bring things to a proper conclusion.
So my conclusion was, we've heard this from you.
This, I think, is amazing.
Whatever my audience thought about it was for them to make.
But I was quite, I was stunned by it.
I was, we have a word in the UK, gobsmacked.
I was gobsmacked by it.
And I said, what are you going to do after you've gobsmacked me here?
What are you going to do next?
And he implied that he was going to come out this year, because the interview was, what, it's more than a year ago now.
Right.
That he was going to come out during 06 and into 07 and say more.
And he didn't.
No, he's basically, first of all, he doesn't, he did one conference, and I was present at the conference in Hawaii.
It was called the Exopolitical Conference on Cosmic Races.
And he did that one conference.
And then he decided he didn't want to be necessarily with the UFO crowd because, yeah, the UFO crowd is very varied.
I'm not going to go into detail about that.
But he's writing a book.
And the last two chapters of his book are on this particular issue.
And he's asked to be private and not be contacted until he finishes his last book.
Well, I think that's fair.
If that's the case and we are going to get the book and the book is going to tell us something, I think he's perfectly entitled to that.
And I, for one, will respect his privacy.
Yeah, that's what he's asked because he's just been invited.
A lot of people write to me because I'm a good friend of his to ask if he will come to conferences.
He's just been invited to Brazil to an international conference and he's refused because he doesn't want to do anything that will distract from his writing this book.
Why is it, you mentioned Brazil, why is it that the South Americans seem to be much more open to all of this and much more willing to discuss this and much more willing to reveal things about this subject than perhaps we in the UK and you in the U.S. are?
Well, two reasons.
One is because they have very many more sightings.
It's part of their culture.
Look at how old the culture in South America is.
You're dealing with the Mayans, the Aztecs, and you're dealing with ancient cultures.
Look at America.
It's 200 years old.
The people in South America are used to the fact that the comings and goings of cosmic cultures.
And also, not only do they have more sightings, they're attaching it to the Mayan calendar.
They're attaching it to visitors from the past.
And I think that they're a lot more open because their hearts are a lot more open.
They're not as skeptical as people.
So the visitors, whoever they may be, tend to appear over Mexico City in flotilla of 200 and 300 balls of light.
Is it because people are noticing them and filtering them through what they know already, what their civilization, what their culture tells them already?
Or is it because the place is a magnet for them?
Both.
Both.
They're filtering it through the fact that what their culture tells them already of the visitors of the past.
It's like having visitations over Egypt or any ancient culture.
They're looking at it as not unusual.
See, we in the West think the paranormal is unusual.
The paranormal is very normal because it is not separate from a reality that exists.
And so we're looking at in the West, especially in the States, as a scientific kind of Newtonian-looking reality, but it isn't.
The paranormal is part of our entire reality and ancient cultures, including the Native Americans, always knew this.
And there are all sorts of things.
There's a confluence, that's a big word, but there's a confluence of concepts and ideas coming together now at this time in the Aquarian Age, as they are calling it, where people are starting to realize things like, hey, if I think a thing, the chances are it will happen.
All of these things are coming together now.
Yes, there's a phenomenon on internet called The Secret that people are downloading, and it's about creating your own reality.
I've got the DVD, but I have to say, to me, it seems nothing new.
There was a thing my sister did years ago called Silver Mind Control.
Heard of that?
Invented by a television engineer, I think he was in New Mexico, called Jose Silver back in the 40s.
Surprise, surprise, what's that all about?
Well, that's all about programming for the things that you want, and hey, they come to you.
Well, that's how the universe works.
All the laws of the universe are universal laws.
I mean, you don't have one law for one country and one thing for another.
The universal laws are that thoughts are powerful, that what we do can be created, and that we are not alone.
And if you look at the new quantum physics with what's called entanglement or non-locality, even the atomic particles are all connected.
There's nothing separate.
So who gave us as human beings these important abilities?
Were we given them by some race who were here before, who perhaps inspired us, or perhaps we're their experiment, or something like that?
I think, as I've said on other radios, it's all of the above.
It's all of the above.
I think we are absolutely amazing people.
We're an amazing race.
The problem, I asked Ingo Swan, I said once, because Ingo Swan is the famous psychic that trained the psychic spies of the 70s for the CIA.
I asked him, do all of us have ESP abilities?
And he said, oh, certainly.
He said, we have it in our hard drive.
It's taken out by society as we grow up in our conditioning.
And that is why they say that a child is much more receptive.
Sometimes a child will have memories of things that have happened in a previous life.
That's another subject.
But a child can make things happen.
Like the famous, whether it's apocryphal or not, story of the baby that was supposed to have turned a tennis ball inside out by thinking about it, by ceasing to believe in it.
Well, children are amazing.
I have a pilot friend that flies for Alitalia that's had several sightings, but his daughter has seen UFOs while we're riding in the car with the pilot.
Well, I just got an email that the daughter who just got her flight wings has photographed a UFO in the sky.
And she is a child.
I remember her saying, Dad, there's something following the car.
Look up in the sky.
This was a child that now is able to see them because she's flying herself.
Does it ever worry you that if these things, and I'm very much on the side of the convinced, and you certainly are, if these things exist and are out there and are visiting Earth and have been part of our reality for as long as any of us know, does it worry you that what they're doing and what they're all about is possibly so advanced that our little brains can probably never get round it?
So it's the fear factor.
I think this is what I'm coming around to.
It's the fear factor of the thing that we can never properly grasp.
Well, you know, I'm glad you brought that up because people are always asking me, are they good or bad?
These are human terms.
It's alien.
The word alien means far from your reality.
Good or bad, they are alien.
They are far from anything that we could even understand.
They have technologies far from anything we can understand.
What makes us put labels on these cultures, on these people?
And my big deal anymore when I do lectures, Howard, is to get off the gray.
The gray is not the alien.
The gray, the little gray, happens to be an extraterrestrial biological entity created by the aliens.
The aliens are like us.
Some of them look like us.
If you go on my website, I have for the first time the faces of human-looking aliens given to me by a contactee in northern Italy.
Some of them are like us, some of them have our characteristics, but they are still alien, which means we can fear something we don't understand, but we must look also at the fact that we are still here, we haven't been attacked, nothing has happened to us, and we are just being observed.
And are the different kinds of aliens mutually aware one of the other?
In other words, are they aware of the agenda of another race?
Well, the more I research this, Howard, the more it looks like Star Trek, okay?
The contactee that I have on my website talks to me about a federation.
The photographs that he took are Polaroids, and they are all different types of people.
And I will use the word people because they look like people, even though their eyes look big, they have almond-shaped eyes, their pupils are bigger, and so forth.
The thing is this, it is a Star Trek vision, and that is a normal vision.
We have different peoples on planet Earth.
Look at the United Nations.
There are different peoples in the cosmos.
And what's happening, which is the most important message of all, is they are observing us for some reason.
And if you believe the stuff that we read on the internet and sometimes in the papers, not only are they observing us, but they're also experimenting on us.
They're abducting us.
They're messing with our animals, messing with our cows and sheep in the fields.
They're doing these things.
Well, a lot of the mutilations are taking place next to nuclear facilities.
I think one of the key things that we're looking at is nuclear.
And going through a nuclear age, you either make it or break it.
And I think what they're looking at is how much radiation we have.
And we have to look at this because this is part of the evolution of the planet, the nuclear discovery.
And what was happening in White Sands in 1947, which is down the road from Roswell?
We were testing the first atomic bomb.
Okay.
And you think there is some kind of prime directive then out there that they will look and they will test and they will check and they will see, but they will not interfere?
No, because they should have done it before we started all these wars and all this problem on the planet if there was interference.
There could be interference if there is a race that wants our destruction.
They could have interfered by making some kind of pact with governments.
That could be a possibility.
I don't know of any of that, though.
That's a possibility.
But I think more interference would be their visibility.
The interference would be, here we are over O'Hare Airport.
Here we are.
You know, the pilots to see them.
Here we are.
So that's the interference.
What about crop circles, Paolo?
We've just had a major, this last week or so, major crop circle in the UK, so complex that you think to yourself, for a start off, you can only see that thing from the air.
How could anybody make something so geometrically perfect using a sit-on lawnmower or something like that?
I don't think it's possible.
I'm not that clever.
No, well, the crop circle phenomenon is so complex, Howard, because some of them are made, because I know the people that make some of them.
The thing is, it's like, I don't even want to go there because I'm so angry with them because they make it hard for me.
You said some of them, and this is the whole story about ufology.
There are people who throw frisbees up in the air like I did when I was 11.
God help me.
And there are people who make crop circles, but some of this stuff may be real.
It is real.
Like the crabwood.
Do you remember the crabwood crop circle?
That had the message.
It had a picture of an alien.
It had an alien, and then it had a disc that was deciphered.
It was a digital disc that said there was a lot of good out there.
There is still time to not believe the bearers of lies and that there was still hope.
And it was the digital disc that was deciphered.
It was crabwood.
Now, the very complex crop circles are probably made by some kind of frequency.
Because you know, I mean, with Greg Braden's work, that frequency can show you a pattern.
There's patterns in water, there are patterns in frequency.
So the frequency that probably made the very complex one that is probably real, what we need are the experts to decipher it.
Let's get to the fun part.
You're at this huge jamboree Now, I wish I was there.
The Roswell Festival.
I should be.
I know this.
God help me to turn a penny.
I've got to work, unfortunately, and that's why I'm not there.
But next time round, I will be there.
But it won't be the 60th anniversary then.
And I'm not sure whether I can make the 80th anniversary, but we'll see.
Tell me about it.
You said I'm not going to tell you about some of the people in the UFO community, implying that they're strange people.
Tell me about some of the characters, some of the weird people who are knocking around there as we say that.
Well, the problem is just that a lot of the people are not in harmony.
There's a lot of infighting, backbiting, and disagreement.
And it's not like doing this academically or scholarly where we can all sit at the table and share information, which is what I dream of.
I dream in exopolitics of a symposium where you all share information.
Yeah, but that's the problem, Paolo.
Whenever you put a bunch of amateur enthusiasts, people who really, really care about the subject together, whether it's we have train spotters in the UK, you know, people who actually take, do you have those in America?
They're people who stand at train stations or by rail lines and they note down the numbers of locomotives and they say, oh, I saw that one on September the 17th last year.
It was heading in a westerly direction.
Whenever you put a bunch of those people together who care passionately about something, they are never going to agree.
There will always be conflict.
Well, it's true about that, and it's true about that if they have a product like a book, they're in competition for selling the books.
So I'm a journalist.
Even though I've written books, I cover everybody's story.
I cover other people's story and try to put them together.
And that's the only thing that is essential.
They'll say, oh, that's not true.
Are the debunkers there?
Yeah, well, I don't want to mention names, but there's some icons of the old guard in ufology that tend to debunk all new stories because they've remained only with Roswell.
Roswell is their big deal, and that's where they are, and that's where they will stay for the next 150 years.
But the people who are keeping the faith in space and ufology are there, like my good friend Richard Hoagland, space expert.
Richard Hoagland is the best researcher.
The two people I'm always asked who are the best researchers who walk there, talk, and do this research 24 hours a day, Richard Hoagland and Stephen Greer.
Stephen Greer with the Disclosure Project, but he is not here.
He's working on a diplomatic solution to all this.
And Richard Hoagland, who has a new book coming out on Mars.
Not Mars, I'm sorry, on NASA.
It's called The Dark History of NASA.
And he talks about the agenda that NASA has.
Now, Richard works, and he works 24 hours a day.
He's always up at night working on proving that we were a population that was first on Mars and then came to the Earth.
And that NASA has an agenda, and NASA knows about all this.
And Richard Hoagland will be here with George Nuri.
We have the old guard.
We have the Stanton Friedman.
Stan Friedman, I have to say, I've spoken to Stan Friedman probably four times in my career.
Once he came over to London, and I had to shoehorn him into a five-minute news interview in London.
He was in the building and out of the building so fast.
And I left Stanton Friedman with the feeling that, you know, I'm really, really sorry we had to do this so quickly and I could talk to you all day and all night.
Now, that guy, he's credited as being, what is George Nouri guy who does a show like this one in the state taught as he calls him, father of modern ufology?
Yeah, he is because he dated back to the Hynek days and he did the Roswell story and he's also on the board of the UFO Museum.
But we have Jesse Marcel Jr.
We have Don Schmidt who wrote the book that has the Walter Haught affidavit in it.
Don Schmidt also did the Roswell Dig with the Discovery Channel.
We have Richard Dolan of UFOs and the National Security State.
We have Gilles Bourdé from France because, you know, France has just opened their files.
We have him here in Roswell.
Well, there's another instance.
We were told that the opening of the files by the French was going to be a turning point.
And again, we get a few newspaper stories and then it all goes away.
And that's what happened there.
Well, yeah, because what they do is they just give you what you want to hear, and then we don't know what's going on in the background.
You're not going to get all the opening of the files.
You're going to get files that are 50 years old.
You're certainly not going to get the ones that happened last week.
So this is the way this works.
And in the midst of it all, you've got the haze of stuff that you've got to try to either filter in or filter out.
Like, for example, another guy I talked to on the show, and I know he's been talked to in America on air, and they recently repeated that interview, funnily enough.
The Prophet Yahweh.
Remember this guy?
Prophet Yahweh said, I am able to call down from the sky UFOs.
I've done it for one little American TV station, but I'm going to go somewhere and I'm going to summon UFOs from the cosmos to come down here.
I know how to do it.
What happened to the Prophet Yahweh?
I don't know, Howard, but I don't cover them because there's a lot of, what I call people that are a little bit out there.
And I don't cover those people.
I don't cover, I don't do a lot of contacte work unless I know that there's, you know, it's a stable situation.
So I can't answer that because there are a lot of people like Colonel Philip Corso that came out with material.
And I have a new Corso interview I'm going to be putting up on my website.
Give me a taste of it.
What's he saying?
What's he saying?
Pardon?
Give me a taste of it.
What's he saying?
Oh, he's saying he saw bodies.
And he's talking about his involvement, that when he went to Wright-Patterson and saw Kraft, that he was the one that gave money for certain things to be done.
And he mentions some of his German scientists with whom he worked.
He mentions their names.
And he mentions, he puts it kind of together, which is really interesting.
He puts the whole scenario together.
And so, you know, I was with him for two years, and he gave us a lot of information in Italy.
It strikes me, Paolo, that a lot of these people who are directly or were directly involved with all of this, the problem is, of course, that they are at the back end of their lives, at the rear end of their careers, and they either have to go very, very public and say precisely what they know right now, or we're going to lose them.
And all we will have then will be the secondhand accounts of people who've perhaps talked to them.
Yes, isn't that sad?
That's one of the reasons I flew to Canada to interview Paul Hellier because of his age.
I figured I better get in his office right now.
I better go this minute.
But he acknowledges the fact that I'm an old man now, so I've got to say this, otherwise it will remain unsaid.
Well, what it is, is there's fear factor.
If you have a family and they threaten to take away your pension and you're afraid that you might overstep a certain parameter, you're not going to talk, Howard.
You're going to wait until you're older.
Clark McClellan is an example.
He's an ex-ground crew astronaut, NASA, who's a good friend.
And Stargate Chronicles has what he saw in NASA when he worked there.
And he's preparing a book.
And he's in his 70s.
So we've got people that are willing to talk, and he's no longer working for them.
We've got people who are willing to talk.
But what we need is not so much the witness testimony, because the disclosure project has more than enough to go to court on.
And Clifford Stone is down here in Roswell, and I just talked to him, and he was in crash retrieval.
We've got more than enough.
What we need is the general public to do an intelligent, academic, scholarly study of this phenomenon and decide if they want the truth.
But maybe the good thing that has happened, and I certainly found that while I was doing that radio show and through this work, whatever this work is worth, that it is now becoming okay to talk about all of these things in a way that it wasn't okay when I was a teenager or when I was in my 20s.
It was always seen as the preserve of wackos.
Now, actually, it's not too bad.
And there's even an organization in the UK that encourages people in the public services, policemen and, you know, ambulance crew members, to come forward and say what they've seen.
Well, what does that tell us?
Well, it tells us that I think we're getting closer to something, but I'm damned if I know what the something that we're getting closer to is.
That's half the, isn't it?
You've got to be truthful about this.
This is half the fun of doing what we do.
Part of us, we're spurred on like little children, hoping that we're going to get a great Christmas present, aren't we?
And sometimes the Christmas present, when we open it, isn't quite what we expected, and sometimes it's disappointing.
Sometimes it's a real surprise.
But we're spurred on constantly by the feeling that the next time we get a revelation, it's going to be the big one.
Absolutely.
What they call the smoking gun.
You know, they're waiting for the smoking gun.
But in whose hands is this agenda?
Do you think it's in Planet Earth's hands, or do you think it's in the aliens hands?
What do you think?
Both.
Both.
I think it's in both.
Our politicians, members of the Illuminati, whatever they might be, if you want to buy into all of that, are they stopping us from knowing what's going on even now?
No, well, the only thing that could be stopping us is the media, because the media doesn't exist.
It's owned by transnational companies.
I mean, it doesn't exist.
Free, total media does not exist.
So the problem is that the media reporting could be the only thing that could be stopping you.
But maybe there's a bit of a backlash starting against that.
If we get a newscaster on MSNBC in the U.S. who rebels on air, if I believe what I saw, and complains about the fact that Paris Hilton is the lead story and it should be Iraq, maybe there's a little bit of hope.
Let's not talk about the don't even go there.
The difference in reporting in the United States and in Europe is day and night because I was in Italy for 14 years and we do not, do not put that kind of reporting on in our Italian news stations.
I don't know what you're doing in Great Britain.
Oh, we're very, very, very celebrity obsessed in the UK.
That's happened, I would say, within the last 10 years.
I started working for a big entertainment radio station in London, what was it, 1993.
And I was part of the tide there that, you know, people, it was perceived that people had a bigger and bigger appetite for celebrity news and information.
So we gave it to them.
And now we have, I think there's a small turning in the tide.
You know, the wave is beginning to curl back on itself just a little bit.
But there is nevertheless this great rushing tide of people wanting that kind of information and it being in the main news.
I will do this myself when I'm putting together a news bulletin.
I have to say, rather than put Paris Hilton at the end of the news, sometimes Paris Hilton's going to be in the middle of the news.
I can think of very few circumstances where I would put Paris Hilton top of the news, but I do understand how that is happening now.
The problem is that I've heard a lot of complaints about this, but nobody does anything about it.
It's like that's why I won't do conspiracy theory.
I won't go on stage and talk about, you know, all the different things that have happened over the years or we've been lied to, because people won't do anything about it.
The day that humanity decides not to drive its car for one whole day, the day that all the planet stops driving their car, is the day that I think that talking about conspiracy theory will do something, because then they all do something.
What are we heading towards then?
What do you think we're heading towards?
Art Bell, great American radio presenter, talked about this thing called the quickening, where our planet and everything on it is getting faster and faster and faster.
Time is moving more quickly.
Our lives are moving faster.
Everything's speeding up, it's all getting...
Some people say the date is 2012 when all will be revealed.
But a lot of things, there is this word again, confluence of stuff that is happening.
People are realizing their mental capacities.
Books and DVDs like The Secret are selling like hotcakes.
There are more UFO sightings and pilots like the guy in Jersey willing to come out and say it.
There are people who say that our weather is being influenced by the activity of the sun and all this stuff.
And it's not just the greater availability of information, I don't think.
But what do I know?
All this stuff seems to be piling in together.
Yes, it's a change.
It's going to be a really quick change.
There is something coming down.
The only way we could put it is in jargon, American jargon, there is something going to happen.
But there would have been a time where, and I have talked about these things on live radio briefly.
You don't get very much time when I'm doing entertainment radio in the UK.
There would have been a time when I would have been regarded like the guy in that movie, Peter Finch.
The movie was called Network.
It was 30 years ago.
Great movie.
One of my favorite movies where this TV newscaster flips and says, I'm madder than hell.
I'm not going to take it anymore.
And actually, they leave him on air because he's a ratings winner.
But there would have been a time when, if I'd talked about some of these things, I'd have been seen as nuts.
I have to tell you, Paolo, I went for what is known as a BBC board.
I went for an interview for a job with the BBC.
It's what, 18 years ago or so, maybe more.
It was for a job as a producer, and I really wanted the job.
I didn't like the part of the country particularly that the job was in, but it would have been nice to get into the BBC.
What killed the interview for me?
Guess, it was because I talked about my interest in the paranormal.
I think things are changing.
I don't know.
I think they might be.
Well, you know what your ratings were when you were on Taxport because we did a New Year's Eve show together from there.
So, I mean, we got a lot of calls.
I'm getting a lot of emails even now about that show.
You know, I'm thinking about a dedication that Colonel Corso made to me in the book he gave me.
He said, Paula, he said, there will be a new world dawning.
He said, and you will be in the vanguard.
You will be in the vanguard of a new world.
Now, what did the Colonel know?
So, Howard, it's the same thing.
There is a new something coming around the corner, a new reality of some kind.
It's related with what humanity calls a paranormal or dimensional shift.
It's related to this.
And since you're already there, you will be an expert in this area, just as I will.
I think there is hope for us both.
Hope's a bad word.
I'm looking for the right word.
I can't find it right now.
But I think it's good.
Yeah, but it's good that both of us are able to question still.
We don't just accept.
We cease to be journalists if we just accept what we're told.
And we both still have the ability and the drive to press people on the subjects and say, well, actually, that may not be so.
Absolutely.
But my job is to report it.
To report it and not to censor it.
So I think we both do that.
We have an open mind because we don't know what the reality is.
It's a big question.
And let me tell you, when I was doing the radio show, I would get emails from people or I would get SMS texts from people during the show more often.
And they would say, you've got this person on.
Why don't you nail them to the wall?
If you were doing a news interview, you would nail them to the floor.
You wouldn't let them get three words out before you started really challenging them hard.
And I always used to say, and I've heard this said on the Radio in America, we're not going to learn anything unless we let these people talk.
You can dismiss it as the biggest load of old rubbish ever.
I might do that too by the end of it all.
But we've got to hear it.
Oh, absolutely right.
This was a way of working that I learned from Alan Hynek, the great astronomer.
He was the consultant on close encounters.
When he would listen to anything, he would put his pipe in his mouth and be totally quiet.
Where I was already making judgments, I would be hitting him saying, Alan, these people are crazy.
Why are you listening to them?
You know, why do you even bothering?
And he'd say, you haven't heard the information.
Listening is the most important thing you can do in your career, Paula.
Well, they teach you when you do, as I've done a lot of local radio in the UK, they teach you when you do an interview.
Quite often you're going for sound bites.
You're going for a nice sound bite.
And to get your sound bite, you have to keep your mouth shut because the person might well say the thing that you are looking for or that you're hoping they might say.
And if you're giving them a wall of sound, they won't have a chance to say it.
So you've got to shut up and listen.
Absolutely.
This is the key, Howard, and so few people do that.
I'm one of those reporters that they say to me, how did you get this story?
I've met this man before.
And I said, because I let him talk.
And I just let them talk.
Maybe we've talked too much about the nuts and bolts of how all this works, but I'll tell you, whenever I get anybody working with me, like an intern or a trainee, I always say to them a couple of things, that you've got to think laterally.
Telephone technique is very, very important.
In other words, you have to appear to be approachable to the other person.
If you appear cold, if you appear that you're not listening to them, you won't get anywhere.
And I always say it's about the personal interface.
It is about the person.
And all the stuff we've talked about, this information wouldn't have come out without people being able to do interviews like the ones that you do, where people are given the chance to speak.
Paul, I got so much response from the Paul Hellier interview.
And some of that response was, this man's a nut.
Why didn't you interrupt him three minutes in and say, this is all rubbish, isn't it, kind of thing?
Well, my view of that is you're not going to get anywhere or learn anything if that's the case.
I don't think an ex-minister of defense who was also a vice premier is a nut.
I don't think so either.
The problem is that these people are judging without realizing that we have a man that is very, very knowledgeable, credible, and experienced, just like Colonel Philip Corsa, who was the head of intelligence for the CIC for many, many years.
When you have somebody who has that kind of background, you cannot just automatically think you know more than they.
It's an arrogance to think that you know more than they do.
Now, this is what's going to be happening when I go to do all the interviews here in Roswell, because we have incredible people.
We still have Glenn Dennis, who was the mortician that was the mortician during the Roswell incident, where they asked for six children's caskets, and he asked, was there some kind of accident on the road that you'd eight children's caskets?
This guy's still around.
He's still here, Glenn Dennis.
And so he was part of the original witness testimony.
Of course, he's in his 70s now.
I think he might even be in his 80s.
He's at the museum.
Some of the people that were involved are still here.
These people are not nutcases.
These people were witness testimony.
It depends on how you approach somebody.
It's part of the job for me just to report what it is and you just to report what it is without putting our spin on it.
That's important.
It must be.
Now, look, what's the wackiest thing that you've seen at that Roswell convention in London?
Oh, Howard.
I walked down the street yesterday.
I took pictures of just the storefronts in McDonald's.
I mean there's like aliens all over the place and the lampposts have grays painted on them so we've got gray faces on all the lampposts all the way down the street.
Plus there's one display where aliens are playing poker and they're listening for human voices.
They're playing poker and you see the radio and they're listening for human voices.
Plus we have the cover-up cafe that is all dedicated to balloon sightings.
The cover-up cafe says report all balloon sightings to us.
Be careful of balloon sightings.
The irony where they called it a balloon.
The whole cafe is built up around the balloon sightings.
So you walk in on balloon sightings.
Do you think that this kind of stuff helps?
I went to Uri Geller's home last year.
I was talking to him about some stuff and doing an interview there.
And I noticed that in his main room there, he's got little model aliens.
Do you think all of this stuff helps?
Well, first of all, Uri is a very, he believes in the extraterrestrial presence.
He's told me about this, and he's fascinated by it.
Does it help?
No, it only helps to bring people in so that they can.
It helps in that it desensitizes people.
They're not afraid.
Kids are not afraid.
They're going to have like a parade downtown Roswell where they're going to dress up like aliens and the best dressing is going to get an award.
There's floats.
There's everything here.
It's a party.
It's a carnival.
We have music tonight.
There'll be fireworks.
I mean, it's a carnival.
It's a fun time for families.
And here I am stuck in London where we have seemingly a monsoon every 15 minutes.
I think I need to be there, Paola.
Oh, you should have been recorded.
Maybe next year.
Now, listen, what's your website?
Anybody wants to know about the works, the writings of Paula Harris?
What do they go to?
Okay, they go to www.p-a-o-l-a-h-a-r-r-i-s, paulaharris, dot com.
And all my material is there, including the latest.
Paula Harris in Roswell, have a great time there, and thank you very much.
This is going to be discovered by people on iTunes and on my website at various times, I would think, over the next few weeks.
Thank you for talking to me.
We'll talk again.
You know that we will.
We're right out of time.
My name is Howard Hughes.
This is The Unexplained.
If you want to know more about this show and the people who've appeared on it, go to www.theunexplained.tv.
That's www.theunexplained.tv.
I'm sorry for all the websites we're throwing at you now.
My webmaster is Graham Mullins.
If you want some good web work, web design, anything like that done for you, I recommend him.
He's the best.
There's a link to him on this website.
Stay safe.
If you see a UFO, please come clean and report it.
Tell me about it first.
Send me an email.
Thank you for listening to this.
Thank you for the response on the emails.
My name is Howard Hughes.
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