'I’m NOT Apologizing!' Clavicular FULL Interview With Piers Morgan
Piers Morgan gets his cortisol spiking as he finds out about looksmaxxing, mogging and more with internet sensation Braden Peters AKA Clavicular. The pair discuss the importance of aesthetics and the catchall term for a male-only regimen of intensive grooming for the purposes of maximizing physical attractiveness. Piers also steers the conversation to Clav’s recent arrest and night out partying with Nick Fuentes, Andrew Tate and Sneako to Ye’s song 'Heil Hitler'. Is he sorry for the offense caused? Watch to find out… Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices
Transcriber: nvidia/parakeet-tdt-0.6b-v2, sat-12l-sm, and large-v3-turbo
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The Trap of Looks Maxing00:07:29
What do I call you? I usually just go by Clav if you want to keep it chill.
Clav, let's keep it chill.
You're with the number one looks maxer.
You know, maybe some of it could be attributed to charisma, to generational run.
Would not have been possible without the looks.
You mentioned your charisma.
What another phrase is gesture maxing.
Self-deprecating humor, you know, someone cracking an egg on their head and then saying, oh, look at me, I'm such an idiot or something in front of girls.
I might argue that I'm mogging you right now.
Go for it.
Him never having sex with a woman.
You were trying to make him look bad.
All I said to him was, you think you'd be less intense about everything if you just got laid?
I was doing a bit of gesture maxing.
You were in a van singing along to Heil Hitler.
Do you regret doing that?
Every so often, there's a trend or a craze which makes many reasonable people want to turn off the internet, possibly forever, and live in a deserted barn.
And my cortisol certainly spiked what I read very recently about looks maxing.
It's the catch-all term for a male-only regimen of intensive grooming for the purposes of maximizing, in their view, physical attractiveness.
Measures may include fillers, facial implants, tongue exercises, or even smashing in your own face, breaking bones to make it look more chiseled.
Or Brayden Peters, better known as Clavicula, is the world-leading looks maxer.
He was recently profiled in the New York Times, no less.
And he joins me now.
Clavicula, welcome to Ancensor.
Thanks for having me, Pierce.
Did you like me call Brayden Cavicula?
Clavicula?
What do I call you?
I usually just go by Clav if you want to keep it chill.
Clav, let's keep it chill.
So look, I want to start with a clip.
This is you talking to Andrew Tate, actually, about the prospect of being interviewed by me.
Piers.
He's not a snake because he doesn't stab you in the back.
He stabs you directly in the chest.
So he's going to go to war with you soon.
But you know that house.
Let's keep it cool.
It's going to come for you.
I'm going to interrupt you, try and frustrate you, all this bullshit.
That's perfect for me.
I never.
Yeah, I think Cortisol seems like that's Cortisol.
Yeah, I think media up here is all these people, they all had a lot more power four or five years ago.
Now, Clav, what I found kind of a bit mystifying about that was, A, that you would be a bit panicky about being interviewed by me because you seem a confident young man.
And second, that you take any advice from Andrew Tate, because by definition of what he does and the way he conducts himself, interviews with him are always quite full-on, quite confrontational, and so on.
I'm struggling having researched you and your life and what you've built for yourself.
I don't really see that you're the same kind of character.
And we're going to come to the night that you had with him and Nick Fuentes and his other guys.
But you've been positioned with them all as a kind of right-wing headbanger online and so on.
I'm not entirely sure that's who you are.
So we'll come to why that's happened.
But why were you slightly apprehensive about doing this?
Well, you know, it's just like he said, I think you've run a lot of hit pieces on people.
You know, I don't think your production team is fully honest about, you know, sort of why you want to do these interviews.
And I think you like to catch people, you know, kind of off guard and make them look bad.
But, you know, I don't think you're going to be as hostile towards me because it's like you said, I'm really not a political figure.
You know, this is kind of something new that we're discussing.
We're discussing something that's more along the lines of self-improvement.
That's kind of like a new philosophy.
I haven't really seen anywhere on the internet before.
Yeah, I mean, look, in relation to what you just said about what I do, I would take issue with that, as I would with all the people that I suppose you're referring to, because I don't set out to be overtly confrontational.
I certainly don't set out to gotcha these people, whether it's Andrew Tate, Nick Fuentes, whatever.
What I tend to do is when they're people who deliberately say inflammatory things, I tend to put those comments back to them.
We do our research.
The production team that you've slightly maligned there will do a very thorough professional job.
And I will put back to them their own words.
Now, I will then challenge them about why they said it, the context in which they said it.
Do they mean it?
Do they really hold these inflammatory views?
Or are they just winding people up?
And so on.
But that is the job of a journalist.
That's where you and I are different people.
We're different animals.
I'm a different animal to Fuentes and Tate and the others.
They're kind of influencer-stroke commentators.
And you're in that category, I guess, without much of the commentary.
You're a different kind of person.
But my job, when I interview people like you, is just to get to the bottom of who you are, what you stand for, stuff you've done, stuff you've said.
Why would you automatically assume that is a kind of gotcha mechanism?
Well, I just assume that because that's kind of, you know, historically what I've seen, right?
That's just based off my own experiences.
So you've watched my interviews and think I try and trap people.
I think so.
I think you deliberately try to make people look bad.
Usually people on like sort of the fringe of the right wing.
But like I said before, as long as you sort of haven't, you know, automatically aligned me there, you know, maybe we'll be able to have a good interview that's not, you know, just you looking for gotcha clips.
Yeah, listen, I've got no desire to just look for a gotcha clip.
I can promise you that.
I don't think I've said that, but there's other people to.
Yeah, I don't think challenging people on what's come out of their own mouths is ever a gotcha in relation to the other people you're talking about.
They can get quite lively, those interviews, because people tend to not be challenged like that.
In the world that you swim in, it's rare that people like Nick Fuentes or Andrew Tate or others like that, Sneeko and others, that they get directly challenged about what they've said.
And they find it a little bit unusual and sometimes a bit unsettling.
But the clips that go out, I often think, I see the reaction to them.
I'm like, really?
You think that I just sit here and I just want to trap people when all I'm doing is repeating back to them what they've said?
I don't think that's a trap.
That's just holding people accountable for their own outpourings, right?
Which is, like in your case, this is why I'm slightly mystified why you get boxed in with these guys because I don't see much of a track record of you saying inflammatory right-wing things.
Yeah, I'd agree with you there.
I would say sort of people don't really know how to handle my ideology.
So they want to figure out which political camp I'm a part of so desperately.
So there's kind of a struggle to loop me into, you know, specific groups.
But it's like I always say, politics are gesture.
Diet as a Voluntary Ruin00:06:25
It's not something that I want to involve myself in.
It's not something I want to talk about because I just simply don't care.
You know, my main pursuit is that of aesthetics and improving my looks to the maximum degree, you know, using every single mechanism available to me.
So the fact that that's become a political phenomenon just really doesn't make sense to me at all.
You've done pretty much everything in terms of aesthetics to make yourself look perfect, right?
This is your ambition.
I've done absolutely nothing.
I don't even moisturize my face.
I've never had any plastic surgery, never had any Botox, never taken any enhancing drugs, nothing.
This is me the way God intended.
Do you think when you look at the pair of us that you are more aesthetically appealing than me?
I don't really think it's necessary or beneficial to anyone to sort of, you know, do some comparison, you know, in our looks level, because while most of it can be attributed to self-improvement, there is a big genetic role.
So, you know, my entire ideology is more so about improving, not really about comparison too much.
But my argument about that, just generally about the whole self-improvement boom of the last 20 years, is a lot of people that go down that path end up looking worse than they did to start with.
And actually, the best way to look good is not to go down the path of relentless self-improvement, to trust what you were given by the good Lord and to avoid doing too much to yourself.
I see so many people, particularly in entertainment, who've just ruined themselves, ruined their faces in the pursuit of what they perceive to be aesthetic perfection.
But well, that's because they don't know what they're doing.
A lot of them are opting to go with things like filler and Botox, which can, like you said, lead to these botch jobs.
You know, you look at guys like, you know, Zach Afron, who have tons of filler in their face and it starts to migrate.
It's just not a look that anyone should be pursuing.
But looks maxing can be as simple as losing weight, right?
So even going on a diet, which I'm sure is something that you've done previously, is part of looks maxing.
It's not just these super intensive plastic surgeries or these cosmetic procedures.
It's just anything that's going to improve your looks.
Well, I've never been on a diet.
One.
Secondly, I have recently lost five kilo.
Well, recently I've lost five kilograms because I managed to break my femur and have a hip replacement.
And so I've not been drinking and I've been eating quite healthily.
And it's amazing.
The weight just drops off.
So somebody who likes to drink.
Yeah.
Well, it's not a diet.
It's an enforced regime that's come about through an injury, right?
So a diet is a diet is a voluntary.
That's literally a diet.
Well, no, it's not because a diet is a voluntary regime you go into for no other reason than you want to lose weight.
I went into an involuntary regime forced upon me by circumstance of a fracture.
It doesn't matter how it's forced upon you.
Well, any sort of deviation.
One is voluntary.
No, it doesn't matter if it's voluntary or not.
It's a deviation from your normal routine, right?
Whether or not you're forced to be in a caloric deficit or not, it's still a diet, you know, like, and, you know, regardless, it doesn't really matter.
You've done a calorie deficit before.
That can be something that's considered looks maxing.
So by definition, Piers, you are a Lux maxer.
You're just someone who is kind of on the surface level of it, right?
I'm saying that in such a competitive dating market, you might need to take it a step further and sort of maybe utilize some peptides, maybe get a little bit leaner than, you know, your current body fat percentage.
That's kind of all I'm saying.
Right.
But I mean, I might argue that I'm mogging you right now.
Okay.
Well, you know, that's a fair perspective.
Go for it.
For those who don't know what I've just said, what does mugging mean?
Basically, outshining someone, looking better than them.
And there's different types of mugs, right?
There's status mogs, there's money mogs.
So, you know, you might have me in those categories, but I think we need to add in a little bit of nuance that it's not a looks mug, you know.
You would say that you have the edge over me in looks mugging.
I think I might have you by just a small margin.
I don't know, but that could be attributed to youth, you know.
So, you know, youth, a lot of a lot of women find the older dude, a lot of women find the older dude more appealing than the young, pimply youth, you know?
Well, you know, absolutely.
But I would say for the most part, looks are an extremely objective thing.
And that's sort of what I'm trying to, you know, push people towards realizing is that, well, you might not know these facial ratios that make someone attractive and harmonious or not, they're subconscious, right?
And everyone is judging you based off of them.
And it's not something that's within anyone's control.
So simply being able to identify them and improve upon them is a very beneficial thing.
Okay, well, let's have a look at you before you started all this, and we'll compare to what you look like now.
So there's the before and after.
What age were you in the before picture?
Can you see that where you are?
Yeah, I would have been 16 years old.
And the one on the right is you're what are you now?
You're 20?
Yeah.
So you've been through.
I've been doing that.
Okay, so you've been through a big physical transformation.
That's clear.
Your face has changed dramatically.
Surgical Methods for Hard Maxing00:02:22
So what have you done to your face to look max yourself?
It's a lot of pharmaceutical intervention, especially during puberty, right?
So this is going to be the time where it's most important for people to optimize sort of their growth mechanisms and their growth pathways.
And, you know, a few of the ways I did this is with exogenous hormones like testosterone, like human growth hormone.
I did things like block aromatase, which is testosterone converting into estrogen so that I would actually grow taller.
So there's plenty of different mechanisms that I leverage to sort of masculinize myself a little bit more and to become a little bit bigger.
So, you know, it would just take me so long to go through every little step that I took to looks max.
Okay, but then there's a harder degree called hard maxing, which is my understanding, correct me if I'm wrong, because this is your lingo, not mine, which is often surgical or invasive methods to alter appearance, fillers, implants, plastic surgery.
So a more dramatic way to use surgical enhancement.
Is that accurate?
That's accurate, yes.
Have you done much hard maxing to yourself?
Well, a lot of people consider anabolic steroids to be within the hard maxing category.
And I've done things like Botox.
But in terms of like actual surgical osteotomies, rhinoplasties, I haven't done that.
It's just more so about pharmacology.
Have you partaken in mewing, a technique involving specific tongue posture to improve your jawline structure?
I have participated in mewing.
And the whole idea behind mewing is that it should be your natural tongue position, right?
That basically means that your palate has enough space to accommodate your tongue and that you've got proper development.
And this also, you know, is going to help you with focusing on nose breathing, which, you know, during your development is one of the key things for looks max.
There's not much you can do after you've already developed improperly, but mewing is going to be one of those things that's absolutely required during the youth.
Is Jester Maxing the Way00:14:25
Where do you come up with these phrases?
I mean, I've got two cats, two Burmese cats.
They mew, they meow.
That's what I perceive to be mewing.
Where do you get this lingo from?
So a lot of the lingo comes from forums over the years.
This was a very niche part of the internet for a while.
And this was one of the techniques from Dr. Mike Mew that became very popular.
I would say that this is kind of just like the most surface level form of looks maxing that's sort of been known throughout internet spaces since really about 2016, I would say.
But like the more hardcore forms of looks maxing weren't really discovered and weren't really in the mainstream until a little bit later on.
See, people watching this who've never heard of you go, why are you giving all this airtime to this guy?
It's all quite interesting, but what's special about you, right?
And I would argue the reason the New York Times did a big profile on you is that you're now making, it is reported, at least $100,000 a month from your daily stream, which often involves hours and hours of you just streaming whatever you're up to.
And I presume you'll include your impressions of how our interview goes, for example.
It is fascinating to me that someone like you at your age can come and become a millionaire really by just using a load of phraseology combined with, I guess, self-improvement, nothing new about self-improvement, but you're combining the two and what people, young people, perceive to be a cool way which you have tapped into, which is very lucrative.
That is why you're interesting, right?
Yeah, I would say so.
And I don't really think it comes down to the finances.
That's sort of something that has been, you know, really pushed in the media for some reason.
But I don't think that social media money in this day and age should really be that surprising to people.
I think there's content creators who are a lot better off than me financially.
So I'm kind of just shocked that people cared about that headline so much.
And the thing is, Piers, simply what I'm saying is my life is kind of on a one-to-one linear timeline with my exact ideologies that improving your looks is going to have a direct correlation with improvement in your life, right?
So sort of as soon as I started really ascending and really getting into those high percentile looks, look at what happened to my life, right?
I became that millionaire.
I became famous and a lot of things just started going really well for me.
Who knows if this would have happened if I were, you know, in the lower percentiles of looks.
You know, maybe some of it could be attributed to charisma, to my personality and uniqueness, but I would say for the most part, this wouldn't be possible.
This generational run, as they like to say, would not have been possible without the looks.
You mentioned your charisma.
Another phrase is gesture maxing, the act of using humor, clowning, or absurd behavior to gain attention from women.
I mean, that's just chatting them up, isn't it?
And having the old gift of the gab.
No, I think gesture maxing is its own category, right?
Being funny, you know, that's not necessarily gesture maxing.
I would say that gesture maxing, a lot of the times it's like that kind of self-deprecating humor, like, you know, someone cracking an egg on their head or something like that and saying, oh, look at me.
I'm such an idiot or something in front of girls.
So it's its own very unique thing.
Just being a clown and, you know, stuff like that.
I think everyone knows a jester when they see it.
And sort of once you know this terminology, you're going to be able to use it in your day-to-day life quite perfectly.
Have you managed to seduce many women by cracking eggs on yourself?
No, I have not.
Yeah, I'm not entirely convinced jester maxing is the way to go.
Sleigh maxing.
No, no, no, no.
I'm actually having jester maxing.
Yeah.
Oh, you're answering.
I beg your mind.
Yeah, yeah, jester maxing.
I think about you.
You agree with me.
Yes, no, I got it.
Jester Maxing's.
I'm sorry.
I've got my round.
So jester maxing is an insult.
Oh, yeah, yeah, I know.
The last thing you want to do is be a jester.
The very last thing.
Got it.
Sleigh maxing.
That means to have sex, right?
Yeah, absolutely.
What's the significance of using the word sleigh?
Sleigh is just sort of a term that we use on the forums for having sex with a girl because a lot of people would directly correlate success in their ascension with success with females, right?
So getting a sleigh was sort of like the ultimate pursuit for looks maxers.
I think it goes a whole lot deeper than this.
I think a lot of it and the reasoning that you should look-max is just overall quality of life stuff.
But, you know, improvements in the whole dating scene is certainly something that we've seen.
So that's kind of just placing like a value or, you know, just being able to gauge your successes.
And your argument is as you've pursued this looks maxing campaign for yourself, you've become more attractive and you've had more women.
Yeah, that's correct.
So in that sense, you're very different to someone like Nick Fuentes, who told me proudly that he's a virgin.
He's never had sex.
Right.
Well, I don't really understand why it's so, you know, controversial to say that when, you know, that's for religious reasons, right?
I seriously doubt that you would ever say that to someone who is of the Islamic faith, someone saying that they're reserving themselves for marriage.
I think, you know, you would probably be screwed in media if you were to use that same argument against the Muslim that you're simply because he's Catholic.
Yeah, but it's, yeah, but hang on.
It wasn't, I didn't use it as an argument.
I just asked him if it was true.
I didn't care either way.
It doesn't bother me.
No, you know, it's just interesting to me that what do you think I was doing?
You were trying to make him look bad and sort of use the whole thing of him never having sex with a woman as some sort of like insult or some sort of way for you to, you know, like make him look bad.
It was just a little ridiculous.
Well, actually, all I said to him was, do you think you'd be less intense about everything if you just got laid?
I was just having a bit of fun with it.
I was doing a bit of jester maxing.
Yeah, but I mean, like, that's just attacking someone based on their, you know, religious beliefs.
And I don't really think that that makes any sense.
You don't think Nick Fuentes ever does that?
Well, you know, this is about you.
If you want to morally grandstand over people, you know, just because he did it, does that mean I can do it?
Like that argument.
No, no, no.
It's not morally grandstanding, but it's not.
No, it is.
I definitely don't.
Not morally grandstanding, but I do think if somebody, for example, like him has been very critical of people who are Jewish, for example, and have a Jewish faith, what's wrong with questioning him with his faith?
And by the way, his faith is the same as mine.
He's a Christian.
I'm a Catholic, right?
And, you know, I had no problem with his answer.
I was just curious what kind of person he is.
I'm curious what kind of person you are.
What's interesting is you're clearly very different people because I'm going to come to the van where you're all in the same van.
And I'm like, I'm sort of scratching my head as to what you guys have in common.
I just don't see that you have much in common with someone like Fuentes or why you would think it would benefit you to be seen with him in the way that...
Let's come to it because it was quite interesting.
You know, one of the few controversial things genuinely I think you've been involved with was this scene in Miami when you're in a van with the Tate brothers, with Nick Fuentes, with Sneeko.
When you watch that video, are you comfortable about that?
Well, listen, Piers, historically, you've, you know, kind of been talking about this whole thing with Ye for a little while.
So I've actually got a Yay thing as well for you.
So why would you go to that island, Pierce?
Which island?
You know what I mean?
So that's the point.
Hang on.
No, no, no, no.
Wait a minute.
Wait a minute.
Which island?
You mean the Epstein Island?
Obviously, I've never been there, never met Epstein, never had any connection with him, not in the Epstein files, other than references to being at lunches with him.
Well, no, no, you can go read them.
Well, no, the beauty of the Epstein files, you can go and check my name.
You can read every entry.
You'll see none of them have anything to do with him or his activities or anything.
I'm just mentioned in passing as having been at completely unconnected events.
So there's something that I meet Maxwell.
Well, I'm about to come to that.
So I was pictured with her.
Okay, I was pictured with her at a book launch for five minutes.
I've talked about it.
She admitted that under oath, the only time we'd ever met was for five minutes.
So I have no connection to that scandal at all, other than I once met her for five minutes at a book launch.
So let me come back to you in the van with the Heil Hitler song playing.
Well, this seems like a little bit ridiculous because you're with the number one.
Hang on.
No, no, you're with the number one.
Gonna finish my question.
Okay, go ahead.
Yes.
Let me finish my question.
I'm just curious because Ye has now publicly apologized for all his anti-Semitic behavior and language in a full-page advertisement he took out in a newspaper.
That came after the thing with the van.
You've seen Andrew Tate trying to backtrack from what happened there.
Fuentes doubles down because that's what he does about everything.
He views it all probably as a bit of a joke and it doesn't matter.
Sneeko, I don't think it really matters.
He's not significant in the way I think that you are in terms of influence.
But I look at you there and you've got a guy behind you literally doing a Nazi salute as Heil Hitler plays in this van a song that basically pays, well, hang on, a song that pays tribute.
Well, you're singing along to the song and it pays tribute to the most genocidal monster of the last hundred years.
And I'm just curious whether you think it's funny, whether you now regret being put in that position, whether you wish you hadn't been so enthusiastic about singing along to that song, or whether you don't care at all.
And I don't have a fixed answer for you.
I'm just curious what you genuinely feel.
Well, the thing is, Piers, I'm not political and I didn't play the song.
So that's kind of all there is to it, right?
And I find it quite silly to me that you're with the number one looks maxer and instead of asking how you could ascend so that your wife wouldn't tweet out captions like, when my husband's away, Mr. Sud comes out to play.
Maybe if you asked me how to ascend, then that would stop happening to you.
You know what I mean?
Okay, so, well, you're okay.
So you're distracting and that's fine.
You're having your fun.
I've got no problem with that.
But just to be clear, you were in a van singing along to Heil Hitler.
Do you regret doing that?
Well, I didn't play it, right?
So it's like if someone were to come next to you in the street and play a song, it's like, you know what I mean?
So it's like, I don't know why you're trying to play it.
You sang along to it.
And this is exactly what I'm doing.
Wait, listen.
No, no, no, no.
This is I've got nothing to do with it.
I'm just curious.
I've got nothing to do with it.
Well, so you're singing along.
I really have nothing to do with it.
I have nothing to do with it.
And this is what I mean, right?
So you basically lied to, you know, my PR team that you wanted to come and interview me about looks maxing.
And this is what you do, right?
I've literally spent the first.
Hang on, hang on.
Stop being such a baby.
I spent the first half hour of the interview taking you seriously about all the looks maxing thing.
I find it genuinely interesting.
I find it also interesting.
Okay, so let's talk about that.
I'm not.
Hang on, hang on, hang on.
Let me finish my point.
Let me finish my point.
All right.
Let's try and keep things civil.
There's no reason not to be.
I'm just bemused why you would want to be associated with those other guys, most of whom have doubled and trebled down on it, who don't care.
They don't mind idolizing Hitler.
They think it's funny.
They joke about the Holocaust and so on.
I'm not sure you're that kind of person, but you have a chance to tell me whether you are, right?
You were in this.
I just told you, I'm not political.
Well, it's pretty political to chart Heil.
Well, to sing to a song, you're being like I don't know why you're trying to, I don't know why you're trying to make me this political figure when it's something that I've tried so hard to avoid.
It's like, I want to talk about looks maxing, but at the like my position on everything is like, I'm not going to be, you know, scared to collaborate with people.
That's something that was good for my career objectively to collab with bigger creators.
It's like, just as I would with any leftist, like there really doesn't make any sense for you to do this whole jester max where you're trying to make me this like right-wing guy.
Oh, I'm not joking.
Straight up.
I'm literally doing.
I'm actually literally.
Hang on.
I'm literally doing.
Hang on.
Hang on, Clav.
I'm literally doing the opposite.
I'm actually giving you the chance to say you're not one of those right-wing guys, that you don't idolize it.
There you go.
That you don't for the sixth time.
Well, it is.
You said I'm not political.
Okay, that's that's that's my okay.
So, so, so it's like nothing to do with it.
If you're going to make me like come on here and denounce like a political figure, it's not political.
That's all you're getting, Pierce.
That's all you're getting is I'm not political whatsoever in any way.
Apologizing for Political Defense00:06:31
Okay, so back to looks maxing.
Back to looks maxing, Pierce.
I'm going to try to get it.
You're not going to have this guy where you're going to be.
I'm going to try.
Okay.
It's not a gotcha moment.
You were singing Heil Hitler, right?
You made it political, not me.
As I said to you at the start of the interview, I will always challenge people on what comes out of their mouths.
You were singing Heil Hitler with a bunch of people, some of whom have been brazenly anti-Semitic.
I'm simply asking you, do you feel comfortable looking back on that video?
Do you wish you hadn't done it?
And do you understand why people were so offended by it?
Yeah, I absolutely understand why people are offended by it.
But at the end of the day, it's like something that went viral.
And, you know, like I'm a content creator, but it was sort of more of a headache than it was a positive.
So at the end of the day, and I'm not political.
And this is kind of like what happened was now people are asking me all these questions about podcasts.
So it's just really not something that I want anything to do with in terms of like my content to do political stuff, to do any of these like huge PR stunts.
You know what I mean?
So like I'm simply here to advocate for, you know, men's issues and looks maxing.
So that sort of distracted from that a little bit.
So that's not, that was never, I get it, which is what I thought would be the case.
So just to conclude that, I'm not going to overrate.
Okay.
You don't have to like keep going for clarifications.
It's like I told you.
No, no, I'm not asking for clarification.
I'm asking you to ask one more question about it.
Given what you said.
I'm not going to say, I'm not going to, I'm not going to answer.
I'm not going to answer.
So move on.
Okay.
All right.
We have another question yet.
I'm not answering your questions about politics anymore.
So this is exactly what Knowles did to me that landed me in a lot of trouble with the whole thing about JD Vance.
It's like now I attacked JD simply because, and I was trying to comment on looks, right?
But this went viral all over Twitter and it distracted from my message.
So that this is not like something that I want to keep happening where it's like, I simply make a comment about someone's body fat percentage and all of a sudden I'm a left-winger.
I'm a Democrat.
I support Newsome.
It's like, no, I just simply said that he's fat, right?
Like I didn't support anyone.
Had you waited, Clav, Clav, you're getting ahead of yourself because had you waited, I'd have said I totally understood what you were doing with JD Vance and Gavin Newsome.
You weren't making a political statement.
You were making an aesthetic statement.
I didn't think you were political there.
You were simply saying JD Vance looks a certain way.
Gavin Newsome looks a certain way.
For your look maxing aspirations for people, Newsome ticks more boxes than JD Vance, right?
I said that he mogs him, yes.
Yeah, so I got that.
And that's why I didn't think that was political at all.
My last question on the other matter, and you don't have to answer.
I'm going to ask you the question: is given what you said about understanding why I defended people, wishing you hadn't done it, and so on, would you like to apologize for being involved in that?
I didn't play the song, so I've got nothing to say about that.
You're not sorry about singing along to it.
I had nothing to do with it, Pierce at the end of the day.
You did sing it.
I had nothing to do with it, Pierce.
Like, I don't know why you're trying to, you know, constantly circle back.
It's like, I'm not political.
No, no, no.
I'm not.
I'm just okay.
I've tried that all.
I've given you three.
I've just given you three opportunities, given you expressed regret for people who were offended and so on to apologize.
You've chosen not to.
You don't have to.
I'm not forcing you.
I'm not trying to gotcha you.
Would you like to apologize for being with Ghislaine Maxwell and being in the Epstein files?
Would you like to apologize for that?
No.
No, because I've told you I'm in the Esteem film.
No apology.
Based.
Yeah, Epstein had aura.
You don't understand.
You don't understand.
Epstein had aura Pierce.
W admit.
Sorry.
Are you saying he had aura?
So you're not going to apologize?
No, what do you think I'm apologizing for?
Well, you just said you're not going to apologize.
What do you want me to apologize for?
You know, for being involved with Ghislaine Maxwell and Epstein.
Well, obviously, as I said to you, I never met Epstein or had anything to do with him.
None of the references to me in the Epstein files show any improper behavior at all.
I'm simply mentioned in references to disconnected events like luncheons and so on that had nothing to do with him or Maxwell.
And I met Ghillaine Maxwell for five minutes at a book launch where we talked about a father, Robert Maxwell, who owned the newspaper that I was the editor of for 10 years after he died.
So there's nothing to apologize for.
Whereas in your case, because you've expressed regret over being caught up in a situation that you said was out of your control, I don't think it's unreasonable of me to say, well, are you sorry?
If you're not, you're not.
If you are, now's your chance.
Well, listen, we've talked about, you know, all those situations.
So, like, I think if you have any other questions, we could just move on to that.
And I won't bring up your involvement with Ghislaine Maxwell.
No, no, you can.
You can talk about that as much as you want.
Very happy to.
If you have any supplementary questions, I'm here to talk about looking, like I told your production team.
So the difference between the difference is I don't mind you.
I don't mind.
I have no problem with you talking to me about Ghillaine Maxwell or Epstein or the scandal or anything.
But I would hope not because you're a political commentator.
I'm not.
That's, I would hope you wouldn't have a problem with that because that's literally your job.
But it's not my job to sit here and talk about, you know, all of these different political issues.
It's really not my job.
It's not something I offer you.
Dangers of Bone Smashing00:03:35
Look, I have three sons, right?
Let me, and they're a bit older than you.
If you were my son, I'd be applauding you for the amazing business you've built for yourself.
I think a lot of what you do in the self-improvement thing is perfectly laudable.
I think there are some parts of it, which I'll come to, which are a little bit more concerning.
But if one of my sons was caught in a van with a bunch of people, some of whom have been proudly anti-Semitic and they were singing along to a song called Heil Hitler, I'd have a firm word with them and I'd get them to apologize to people who were rightly disgusted.
You've chosen not to, and that's fine.
I'm not gotchering you.
I'm just saying, do you want to do you feel sorry?
If you don't, you don't.
Don't worry, your sons will never, you know, have as successful of a media career as me.
So you won't have to worry about any PR design.
I'm sure you're right.
For the love of God, are you ever going to move on from this line of questioning?
I'm going to move on now.
There's a thing called bone smashing.
Now, this is the bit that I find concerning.
This is a dangerous and pretty discontinued and discouraged practice of actually hitting bones in your face to create a more chiseled look.
Have you done this?
And do you encourage people to do it?
Yeah, so I have done this.
This is something that was part of my routine for years and still is.
The problem is there is sort of a barrier to entry to all this stuff that comes with just intelligence, right?
So if you tell people about bone smashing and they're super low IQ, they might hit themselves in the eye and cause a lot of trauma or severe harm to themselves.
So like these are things that could be very dangerous if you know done improperly, but also things that can't have a lot of benefit.
And this is always the nuance that I give.
So it's sort of a double-edged sword on whether or not I recommend it.
It's like, if done properly, with the proper precautions, it can be a good thing and it will be a good thing.
But there is a lot of risk involved.
See, I just don't think smashing your face up is a good thing to be encouraging anyone to do.
Okay, well, you know, tell me why not because I think the obvious potential downside massively outweighs any potential upside.
And there's also a kind of wider point I'd say to you, which is, well, to me, like my overriding view of your whole sort of philosophy about no, no, no, but like, why do you not recommend bone smashing?
Like, what's what's actually wrong with the mechanism?
Self-evidently, because smashing, well, I can tell you why I don't recommend bone smashing.
I literally smashed a bone five weeks ago.
I broke my femur falling over, needed a hip replacement.
It's wrecked my life for the last five weeks.
I can't.
Well, we're talking about very intentional localized microtraums.
I know.
Talk about falling over.
I know, but you.
Yeah.
I know.
So are you saying it's not possible for you to have a semblance of precision to not just completely shatter your orbital rim or something?
Like, it seems like a very easy thing to do.
I think my overriding question about all of this for you is...
So what's wrong with it?
It smells slightly easy.
Hang on.
Hang on.
Well, I don't think it's a good idea to encourage people if you do perfectly entitled to.
If you've done it and it worked for you, great.
And I don't dispute that you look good, right?
Trump and Presidential Archetypes00:08:32
You're a good-looking young man, no problem.
Or that you've been very successful with your philosophy, okay?
These things are just a given.
But I've met a lot of very good-looking people in my career, and a lot of them end up miserable, right?
Because their looks eventually fade and they can't deal with it, and they end up turning to drink and drugs, and they're depressed.
And it's awful to watch because they pride aesthetics over things that are more important.
Character, for example, you know, your personality, intelligence, education, wisdom, all these sort of things.
In other words, things are...
Why are you doing the same thing where you make it mutually exclusive?
They're not mutually exclusive at all.
Well, I'm not.
I'm not.
But are you not concerned that partly this is driven by insecurity on your part?
No, I would say that that would be applicable to most people in the looks maxing scene.
So I don't think that's a bad argument for you to give.
But for me, for my specific case, it's based on objectivity, right?
It's based on real-world data that shows looks are extremely important in the workplace.
Looks are extremely important in dating.
So that's kind of the reason that I go about looks maxing, but that might not be so true for everyone.
I want to just mention some famous men who I would argue are better looking than you, despite not having pursued a life of looks maxing.
This is just my objective opinion.
Robert Redford, Paul Newman, Brad Pitt, George Clooney, Cristiano Ronaldo.
There's five.
What's your response?
My response is Brad Pitt has had multiple facelifts.
Cristiano Ronaldo has had a lot of dental work done.
People have speculated that he's had some work done on his jaw with Filler.
So all these people, if you think that they're not looks maxing, Hollywood actors, that's just completely ignorant and a little bit silly almost.
That wasn't what I said.
I just said that they are potentially better looking than you.
How do you plead to that?
Yeah, and I really wouldn't have a problem with that argument.
Like, I don't really think that I'm like, you know, the top echelon of looks.
I would say that I'm probably above average in my looks, but it's not a hill for me to die on and say, oh, I'm the best looking person ever.
That would be a ridiculous argument.
And it's not one that I've ever made.
So to just name five people that are best.
In your estimation, who is the best looking person in the world?
And who's the best-looking person ever?
Oh, that's a tough one.
The best looking person ever?
Well, we might not know who that is, but certainly, you know, what I've said when this question is asked is based on objective mathematics, you know, Matt Bomer scores the highest in terms of facial harmony.
But, you know, there are some other things that go into it, like, you know, coloring, you know, like angularity and dimorphism.
So, you know, while that's true about the objective harmony measurements, you know, it would take a little bit of thinking to kind of determine and maybe some surveys.
And what about women?
Because I was very surprised about what you said about Sidney Sweeney.
You said I would say that she's pretty malformed.
Her upper maxilla is extremely recessed.
She's got the eyes of doom with no infra-orbital support.
She's not really that much of a looker in her face.
I think that a lot of people with porn brains find her attractive because of her body.
I mean, A, very ungentlemanly comments.
And secondly, you can't be more wrong.
I mean, she's like the hottest sex symbol in Hollywood right now.
Well, yeah, but like I said, that's because a lot of male society is obsessed with pornography.
They're gooners, right?
So that sort of body type and that sort of archetype is sort of what they're looking for.
You know, and this is sort of true about most of the famous OnlyFans models, mostly the famous porn stars, is they don't have model faces, right?
They would never be seen on a Victoria Secret runway.
They simply have big tits and big asses.
Excuse my language.
What's wrong with that?
I didn't know if this was like a live thing or not on a media network.
I don't know how this was.
Oh, no, no, no, no.
I don't mind your language.
It's uncensored.
You can say what the hell you like.
I'm just curious what you have a problem with your problem with those particular women's body part measurements.
I don't think it's a problem at all, but it only becomes a problem to me when you sort of place these things higher than the face in terms of sexual desire, right?
I think a girl with a good face is a lot more desirable than these, you know, sort of curvy models who don't necessarily have good bone structure facially.
They've got a lot of, you know, phthalates.
They've got recessed convexities.
So like that, that sort of thing is not really what I'm into.
The whole Sidney Sweeney look.
Do you not think it sounds a bit misogynist, though?
Can't you give women a bit more of a break?
I mean, to study them in such extraordinarily pedantic detail, overanalyzing every inch of their aesthetics.
And if they don't reach your high levels of maxing, then they must be rubbished.
Give women a break.
I mean, women won't even look at a man who's under six foot as a human in a lot of cases.
Like, what are we talking about?
They are the most fucking brutal gender.
And this is the most brutal dating market that we've ever been in.
So for you to sit here and tell me that I'm being too mean or I'm not being gentlemanly, it's just a little bit silly.
We just have to look on the other side of the aisle to see what's going on.
And I think you'll find me pretty justified.
If your theory is right that trans maxing is the only route to happiness, how is Donald Trump the most powerful and successful person in the world?
Well, because he's very tall.
He's got a good phenotype.
A lot of the looks features of Donald Trump, like his facial width to height ratio, are favorable.
And there's a lot of traits that are sort of universal in presidential campaigns, or presidential candidates rather, like that of their height.
You really never see short presidential candidates do well.
So this is still all about aesthetics, right?
He still fits within the categories that I'm talking about.
So your position is that Donald Trump is a looks-maxing example and Sidney Sweeney is not?
First of all, I just said that Donald Trump has a lot of the traits that make someone do well in a presidential campaign.
Well, but you were actually about his looks.
Well, you just asked why he's the most powerful person in the world.
And I'm simply telling you, it's because he's six foot three.
He's got a super wide facial width to height ratio.
And these are things that have been researched to be super beneficial in a campaign.
The problem with becoming famous like you and suddenly getting all this attention, Clav, is that you start to get a lot of unwanted attention.
You know, you got arrested two weeks ago.
You were in custody on suspicion of possessing a forged instrument using a fake ID and so on.
The charges were dropped, I should stress.
You've talked about using drugs like crystal meth and so on as a stimulant for hollow cheeks and so on.
Why Height Matters Politically00:07:55
But with your higher profile comes risk, doesn't it?
Both of unwanted attention from authorities who may take a dim view to your use of drugs and talking about it to, you know, you've had problem with people having sort of stalker behavior to you and so on.
How are you dealing with that part of fame?
Yeah, that's certainly a lot more difficult.
You can't really fly under the radar.
I can't really go out in public anymore without security.
It's like you want to just go to a bar and have a good time, you know, getting swarmed by people wanting to take photos, which is great.
And I think it's, you know, one of the best things that has ever happened to me, but it's just a different life, right?
So I'm not really sitting here and complaining because the pros massively outweigh the cons.
So you do have to operate, you know, a little bit differently, but it's something I've gotten used to.
It's something I'm pretty well adjusted towards.
What's your dream?
What's your ambition?
Where do you want to be in five years?
Well, I want to keep ascending.
I want to be able to be extremely successful in my career, maybe find a way to have a little bit more balance in my life where I have some time to start gym selling again, maybe not as many streaming hours.
So just finding a balance, figuring out a way to be a little bit more sustainable because the current routine and the current hours that I work are quite brutal.
Do you want to get married, have kids, settle down?
Piers, I really couldn't tell you that at such an early age.
I'm not really opposed to anything.
And I think I'll kind of figure it out, but I'm just not ready to answer that question, quite honestly.
Yeah, fair enough.
Polymarket, the prediction market, has an open market on whether you might be charged with any criminal offense by the end of June.
Apparently, there's a 20% chance, according to the guys who know where to put their money.
What would you say the chances are of you being charged with a crime by the end of June now?
I don't know.
I don't want to put any bad energy out there or stuff like that.
I'm going to try to, you know, stay on the right side of the law as much as I can.
Let's just say that.
And I'm going to try to keep myself out of trouble.
What do your parents make of it?
You're from New Jersey.
You had a nice, privileged upbringing.
I don't mean that as an insult.
I mean that just as a fact.
What do they make of your phenomenon?
Well, they, you know, I've sort of disappointed my parents for most of my life.
And that kind of was true up until quite recently when the success was so great that they sort of had to ignore all, you know, the bad stuff and the bad press that was happening that their friends were seeing.
Because, you know, right now it's undeniable that I'm doing so well financially that it's kind of worth maybe their friends seeing some clips of me talking about stuff that they might not necessarily like.
So it's kind of undeniable.
Do they have a word with you about the Heil Hitler thing?
My parents didn't talk to me about any of the recent PR stuff.
They don't really comment too much on anything that happens on social media.
We talk quite frequently and they're going to be at my house in Florida in a few hours.
So I'm quite close with them, but they try not to bug me too much about anything that they see on social media.
And if they ask you, hey, you were on Piers Morgan earlier.
How did it go?
And I presume you'll talk about this on your own streaming as well.
I mean, how do you feel it's gone?
We've spent nearly an hour talking.
We've covered a lot of stuff.
How do you feel it's gone?
I thought it was going really well until you wanted to get political.
And I sort of like talking to you for most of the time until then.
And right now, this is, you know, flowing a little bit better.
So I think if we were to just do what was originally intended and talk about sort of my ideology with looks maxing, its relevancy in the modern dating market, I think we could have even been pals that talked off camera.
You never know.
But, you know, making it political was never just something that I wanted to do.
You see, that's very interesting because my honest answer to that is I think we could get on perfectly well.
And I felt that before I interviewed you.
Having researched you, I was like, this guy's nothing like Andrew Tate or Nick Fuentes or Sneeko.
He's not to the right like those guys.
I don't think that you look back on that Hitler thing with any great sense of comfort or pride.
I think you wish, you probably, if you're honest, wish you'd never done it.
And you probably do feel sorry about it.
Because I don't think you're one of those guys.
And the way you get branded with them in a lot of the media coverage now as a direct result of what happened that night, I suspect is irritating to you because it's not really where you want to sit in the public domain.
There's nothing before that that suggests that's where you want to be.
And when you say to me, I shouldn't have got political, it's the same thing that I explained to you at the start about my interviews with Tate and Fuentes and others, is that all I do is put to people what they've done and said, right?
In the same way that you said to me, I saw a picture of you with Guillain Maxwell, or you're in the Epstein vote, and I can answer you.
I expect to get questions.
I answer them.
And my advice to you is: if you don't want to be asked about stuff like being in the back of a van with a bunch of right-wing headbangers singing Harl Hitler, then the best thing to do is not be in the back of a van singing Harl Hitler with a bunch of right-wing headbangers.
Would you agree with me?
Not necessarily, because like if someone puts a song on and you're sitting in a car, like, I don't really understand how that's supposed to be my fault.
And like, why do you keep coming back to this, man?
It's like, it's so silly to me, you know?
Well, because you said to me that the only part of the interview you didn't like was when I got political.
And I'm throwing back at you that the only reason I brought that up is because the biggest news story involving you this year.
But that's not even like a relevant.
That's not even like a relevant story.
That's like something that happened like, you know, over a month ago.
It's like, that's, that's literally four previously.
Like, how is that even something that you're still bringing up?
Of course it's relevant.
Of course it's relevant.
And it's not me being political.
It's something you did.
You got to own it.
You got to own it and say whether you feel ashamed about it or not, whether you're sorry or not.
It's up to you.
I don't care.
You know, it's just something that you did that was very newsworthy and very notable.
And like I say, I don't think you're one of those guys.
Maybe you are.
Maybe you want to keep hanging out with them and maybe you don't have any problem with it.
I just don't think you're one of those guys.
Listen, I have no problem collabing with controversial figures, you know, because that's just kind of my brand is like, you know, the same way that you're uncensored and the same way that you interview people, you know, same way I'm going to, you know, do collaborations.
So I really have no problem doing any of the controversial collabs.
Advance Warning on Mogging00:00:52
Well, look, we spent nearly an hour talking.
I've enjoyed getting to know you a little better.
I hope we do it again.
I apologize in advance for viewers who will watch this and think that I clearly mogged you.
You're just going to have to live with that, I'm afraid.
Yeah, you got me, Pierce.
Well, it was good talking.
Thanks for having me.
I hope you have a good rest of your day.
So take care.
All the best to you, Clev.
Thanks a lot.
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