“Iran’s HOLOCAUST” Death Toll Uncovered - How Long Until Trump Declares War?
New reports this week suggest that more than 30,000 people have died in the Iran protests. Iranian state media says it’s more like 3,000; either way, it’s a massive and devastating loss of human life. The big question now is whether it’s massive enough to cross President Trump’s red line. Piers Morgan first speaks to The Grayzone’s editor-in-chief, Max Blumenthal and former IDF lieutenant colonel and spokesman Jonathan Conricus. He then asks former Special Advisor on Genocide to the Prosecutor of the International Criminal Court, Dr. Payam Akhavan, about the truth of the death tolls before speaking to Iranian-American activist Masih Alinejad, from New York where she faced her would-be assassin Carlisle Rivera, who has now been sentenced to 15 years in prison. Piers Morgan Uncensored is proudly independent and supported by: Oxford Natural: To watch their full stories, scan the QR code on your screen or visit https://oxfordnatural.com/piers/ to get 70% off your first order when you use code PIERS. Melania: Step inside the 20 days before history is made—watch MELANIA, only in theaters January 30; get your tickets now! Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices
Transcriber: nvidia/parakeet-tdt-0.6b-v2, sat-12l-sm, and large-v3-turbo
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Iran Regime on Brink00:06:50
Ali Khamenei behaves like ISIS.
I want the US government to take action against him.
And I really believe this is the message of millions of people inside Iran.
This is classic corporate media propaganda to drive war.
We've seen it again and again.
At least 33,000 people have been killed in Iran.
It is one of the worst mass killings in contemporary world history.
Whilst respecting your right to question all the other numbers, you yourself have no idea how many people have died.
Do you?
It's an insult to the intelligence of the viewers that this regime change activist who is furnishing these numbers, when he calls it a Holocaust, when he would never dare call what Israel did in the Gaza Strip, he would never call that a Holocaust.
I think that you are a ridiculous and pitiful person that peddles in anti-Semitism.
You're dangerous.
You're reckless.
You are a walking anti-Semitic stereotype.
While the world's attention has been absorbed by the death of two protesters in Minneapolis, damning new details have emerged about the scale of the atrocities amid protests in Iran.
New reports this week suggest that more than 30,000 people may have died in the demonstrations and the crackdown.
Iranian state media say it's more like 3,000.
We'll examine that disparity later in the show.
But either way, it's a massive and devastating loss of human life.
The big question now is whether it's massive enough to cross President Trump's red line.
A massive armada is heading to Iran, he posted on his truth social platform.
It's moving quickly with great power, enthusiasm and purpose.
Like with Venezuela, it's ready, willing and able to rapidly fulfill its mission with speed and violence if necessary.
Hopefully Iran will quickly come to the table.
Well Iranian officials say the country is on high alert and that any attack will be the beginning of what they say would be all-out war.
And the US Secretary of State Marco Rubio has also been building the case.
He testified to the Senate on Wednesday that Venezuela was working with Iran before the US swiped Maduro, calling it a deal with the devil.
So how close are we to actual war?
Is it justified?
Can the US and possibly Israel really topple the Iranian regime without putting boots on the ground?
We have a series of expert guests lined up and we begin with Jonathan Conrickus, the former IDF Lieutenant Colonel and spokesman and Max Blumenthal, editor-in-chief at the Grey Zone.
Well welcome to both of you.
Jonathan, welcome back to Uncensored.
There is a sentiment that's been spreading, I think, that the Iranian regime, for the first time perhaps since 1979 when it came to power, may be genuinely on the brink of potentially being toppled.
Do you think that is true or is it wishful thinking?
Hello, Piers.
Happy to be back and happy that you are back.
Wish you well.
I would say that at this stage, it looks as if the Iranian regime has indeed crossed one bridge too far and butchered too many people, done it in the most atrocious and brutal way, basically mowing down civilians with machine gun fire on Iranian streets.
And perhaps even more importantly, strategically speaking, not humanely speaking, they have insulted and enticed the American president by directing personal attacks against him from the official account of the so-called supreme leader, Ali Khamenei.
I think the sum total of that is that the Iranian regime finds itself at a very, very delicate moment.
I agree with your skepticism.
I think that unseating any autocratic dictatorship is very difficult because organizations like the Islamic Republic of Iran, like Soviet Russia, like Eastern Germany, like China, like many other totalitarian states, spend a lot of resources in trying to protect themselves from the potential enemy number one, which isn't external, it is domestic, and it is the people that they oppress.
It is the same story all around the world.
So it is a very difficult task.
I don't think that it is possible to do by external force alone.
But I think at this stage, Iranians have shown tremendous courage, bravery, resolve, and even though they were met with the most horrible and brutal tactics that I think makes Russian tactics look pale, Iranians were out on the streets and confronting mercenaries and the basie forces and the IRGC and other thugs.
And I think that if they get external help and if they get weapons, they will have the ability to overthrow that oppressive regime.
But we have to remember that it's going to be a long process.
It's not going to be a quick in and out.
It cannot be done only by aerial power.
And there needs to be organization on the ground.
There needs to be weapons on the ground.
There needs to be political support.
There needs to be financial support.
And these things usually are messy and protracted.
They are usually not beautiful and they are not short.
The outcome has the potential of being positive, maybe a dawn, a positive future for the people of Iran.
No more oppression, no more crazy Islamist rule.
I hope that is where the future will take us.
And I can only salute the bravery of young Iranians and the Iranian people who have been out on the streets and confronting one of the most brutal regimes, unfortunately paying the price.
And I can only pray that their gallant efforts will eventually free the Iranian people from this oppressive regime.
Okay, Max Plemental, we've been tracking and uncensored the prediction markets on the fate of the Iranian regime for a while now.
Polymarket has an 18% chance of the Ayatollah being ousted as supreme leader by the end of February, which is actually down from 47% when we first cited it two weeks ago.
It's been spiking around, but that shows how, I guess, how unpredictable and volatile the situation is.
Before we get into the other stuff I'm sure you want to talk about, what's your gut feeling telling you?
Do you feel this is a regime on the verge of being toppled?
Cold Reality of Riots00:02:39
Or is it, as we've seen many times before, actually just what people would like to happen, but the hard, cold reality on the ground is very different?
Well, I'm not really a polymarket better.
The sites investors, Don Jr. and Peter Thiel aren't exactly trustworthy figures, and neither are the casualty statistics that were cited in the intro, which seem to be an exhibition of desperation on the part of the forces that want to bomb Iran, specifically the government that Jonathan Conrig has served, which has Donald Trump by the shortened curlies thanks to his top donor, Israeli cut-out Miriam Adelson.
30,000 dead was introduced, this phony statistic by a lobbyist, Ferezza Pahlavi, the clown prince based in Potomac, Maryland, who is personally calling for bombing Iran now after he called for Iranians to go and kill government workers, to kill government media workers, and to carry out violence in their own country.
And following these regime change riots, 750 banks were destroyed, 350 mosques were destroyed, much of it on camera, 250 bus stations.
And yes, thousands were killed.
The Mossad, the Israeli intelligence assassination force, took credit for these riots, not only on their Farsi language Twitter account where they said, we are walking alongside you, but through Channel 14 correspondent Tamir Morag, who said that our involvement in these riots has risen, has driven the body count and we're responsible for so many of those body bags you see in morgues.
So the question is, what was the point of these riots, which were heavily coordinated, according to many Iranian witnesses, which yes, did target besiege unarmed guards.
You see them be beaten to death on camera by small mobs.
And did Iran have the right to restore security to their citizens?
Would the U.S. have tolerated this kind of violence in its streets?
The point of these riots was to provide a bridge between the 12-day war in which Israel failed in its unprovoked assault and a new assault on Iran in order to close the Iran file, which they have been unable to do.
And I really appreciate the honesty of this debate because it's me, an American opponent of my country going into a war which does not serve our national interest in which American service members from Spokane to Portland, Maine, would be killed for the interests of the self-proclaimed Jewish state.
Mossad Credit for Violence00:08:52
And I'm going up against someone who is a former Israeli soldier who personally participated in the destruction of the Al-Shifa hospital in the Gaza Strip.
So I'm glad that it's all clear for everyone to see who wants this war and who doesn't, because many of the Iranians that I know inside Iran may not agree with their government, but they don't want to be bombed and they also don't want to be sanctioned.
And we should also acknowledge that U.S. Treasury Secretary Scott Besant at Davos, the World Economic Forum, boasted that U.S. sanctions, which have devastated the Iranian public and plummeted its currency, were responsible for these protests, which started out peacefully, turning into riots.
He took personal credit for the violence.
The Mossad has taken credit for the violence.
And the only thing left now is to bomb because the riots have ended and restored security has been restored.
But there's no plan after the bombing.
Before I go to Jonathan to respond to what you've been saying, I just am curious if you believe those figures that we cited as being reported are so wrong.
How many people were killed?
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As I said, the 30,000 dead is sourced to one single figure, Amir Parasta, who is a lobbyist for Reza Pahlavi, the self-proclaimed crown prince.
And that was printed in the Times of London, an MI6 adjacent paper by Christina Lamb, who's responsible for so many of the October 7th atrocity deceptions.
There's another figure out there, 16,500, printed by Barry Weiss's CBS News, which is there to launder the problems.
I understand all this, but what's your understanding?
Yeah, just to be clear.
To be clear, I mean, Christina Lamb is one of the best foreign correspondents I've ever worked with.
So, your opinion and mine are different about Christina Lamb.
But here's my point.
It doesn't really matter.
My point is, if all these figures are wrong, you're speaking clearly, you believe from some authority about them being wrong.
So, how many have been killed?
What I'm saying is these figures are unsourced.
CBS does not have any sourcing.
Christina Lamb is a good idea.
But what is your understanding of how many have been killed?
It could be thousands.
If the government says 3,000, that's a lot of people.
And we also know that hundreds of people are not.
So these numbers could be correct, is what you're saying.
The central marketplace in Rasht was burned to the ground by riots, and over 20,000 children were murdered.
But Max, my point is.
My point is...
Max, Max, my point is...
I just want you to...
Let me finish.
Let me finish.
I want you to concede that whilst respecting your right to question all the other numbers, you yourself have no idea how many people have died.
Do you?
If you concede that you do not know how many were killed by Mossad-backed rioters, then I would be happy to concede that.
But unlike Christina Lamb, who does not know and is relying on a lobbyist for the crown prince who is calling to bomb Iran and is backed by Israel, this is classic corporate media propaganda to drive war.
We've seen it again and again.
Okay, let me go to Jonathan.
Look, Jonathan, we don't know how many people have been killed.
And all we do know is it is thousands.
It's just a question of how many thousands.
Whatever the number is, it's been horrific.
But Max Blumenthal's key position here is this is all on Israel.
It's all an extension of the 12-day war.
Well, no, that's not my position that it's all on Israel.
But Israel has taken credit in part.
Okay.
And Jonathan, how much of it do you think?
Criminal force that has taken credit for it.
Okay, okay.
You've clarified that.
Jonathan, your response.
Yeah, you know, once I had an interesting conversation when I served at the UN on behalf of Israel, I had an interesting conversation with a Pakistani general, a two-star general, senior guy.
And he asked me some of the most ridiculous questions about how does the Mossad control the political system in Pakistan.
And I asked him, like, really, you're asking me, you think that the Mossad controls Pakistan?
And he gave me a lot of examples of why he thinks that is the case.
And me being me, I didn't, you know, tell him that that is so far from reality.
And not only does the Mossad not have the resources or the ability, but it has very limited interest in Pakistan.
I actually thank Max for what he's saying because it's important for Israel's enemies to believe that the Mossad is this ever-powerful global organization that can reach and penetrate everywhere and start revolutions and topple regimes.
I have no issue with a crazy fringe person like Max saying that because I think that it's important for our enemies to fear us and if they believe that Mossad can do this, I'm totally okay with it.
Whether it's true or not, we'll have to wait and see.
I actually don't believe that Israel has the ability to do so.
Now, if we put fantasies and conspiracy theories aside, I know that you, Max, you deal with conspiracies and that's your number one currency, especially when it's about hating Israel.
I want to focus really on how the Iranian people has been abandoned.
You know, the deafening silence of so-called progressive, so-called people who care about human rights, people that were out marching in colours with gusto and spraying graffiti on monuments in the US and vandalizing streets in the UK and chanting slogans from the river to the sea, all allegedly because things had happened to the Palestinians and because of a lot of fake news and claiming that they cared about human lives.
Where are those same people, part of your crowd, Max?
Where are those same people when it comes to Iranian peaceful civilians that were butchered by their own regime?
Why doesn't it matter when Iranians are murdered?
Why does it only matter?
Why does it only matter when Arabs get killed in conflict by Israelis?
Why is there such a deafening silence?
Why are there no sit-downs in universities?
Why are there no condemnations?
Why do all of the self-claimed armchair champions of human rights like you and others who never bothered to step foot in a war zone or actually do something but sit in comfort in aircraft?
Why was there no outcry?
I was in Gaza in 2014 and saw the serial slaughter that you carried out.
And you've called me a conspiracy theorist and you've tried to.
I think you're a ridiculous purveyor in lies and anti-Semitism.
That's what I think you are.
You're unfortunately who has the stage to do it, but I think that you are a ridiculous and pitiful person that peddles in anti-Semitism.
You're dangerous.
You're reckless.
You spit nothing.
You're a walking representation.
You represent nothing.
Jonathan is putting the con in honor in the future.
You represent nothing.
You're faithful for the Iranian regime.
You spent the first time of your speech to shill for the Iranian regime tells anybody what you are and what you stand for.
You're here taking the side, nothing.
You're taking the side of the destruction of hospitals in the Gaza regime.
You're a literal war criminal.
I haven't destroyed anything.
The MRI wing of Al Shika.
On camera, you are responsible for the people.
The only people that have destroyed infrastructure are responsible now for it.
Don't talk over each other.
Ad Hominem Attacks00:03:44
Can we bring it back?
All right, let's cut the ad hominem for a moment and let's keep it.
That's not ad hominem.
Those are facts.
These are influences.
No, nothing you say is fact.
Nothing.
It's a fact that you're a war criminal.
Let's bring it back to Jonathan.
I want to bring it back to Iran, please.
With kosher soap on a rope on your hand.
You would be in prison.
You're a literal war criminal calling me a conspiracy theorist.
I've never heard you both make participating in the destruction of hospitality.
All right, listen, you've made your feelings.
You've made your feelings about each other.
All right, listen.
You've made your feelings about each other very clear.
Let's try and get it back to the debate, which is about Iran.
You know, Max, Donald Trump, we know what he did in Venezuela.
The same aircraft carrier Abraham Lincoln is now on its way steaming towards Iran.
Trump says it's moving quickly with great power, enthusiasm, and purpose.
Like with Venezuela, it's ready, willing, and able to rapidly fulfill its mission with speed and violence if necessary.
Hopefully Iran will quickly come to the table and negotiate a fair and equitable deal, no nuclear weapons, one that's good for all parties.
Time is running out.
As I told Iran Boltz before, make a deal.
You know, he may not be kidding here, Trump.
We saw what he did with Maduro.
It would be a lot harder to try and decapitate the leadership and take out, say, the Ayatollah.
But certainly, if it comes to a street fight between the American military and Iran, then the Americans would win with overwhelming power and speed, I would imagine.
So how seriously should we be taking this threat from Trump?
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Well, I'm not going to get into military analysis.
I'll allow the former Einstatz group in commander to do that.
But what I am going to say is that...
Max, you're ridiculous.
You're just undermining the little legitimacy that you have by calling me that.
You're just a ridiculous small person.
Dubes Ein Kriegkriminal.
You're just a ridiculous small person.
I mean, you're ridiculous.
Even that you couldn't be more relevant.
You know that Dr. Adnan Virginia.
Just answer the question.
Go on.
If you could answer the question, Max, without getting me in the issue, if you could focus on the topic at home.
Am I allowed to speak?
I think that would be pretty conducive for the interview.
Am I allowed to speak now?
Oh, come on.
Thank you.
You know, in a just world, you would be in a Super Max prison with kosher soap on.
Max, you don't have to keep saying the same thing.
You've made your point.
Why don't you try and answer the question?
He cuts me off every single time.
Donald.
No, you attacked him.
Well, just answer the question.
He's calling me names.
I'm not going to sit there and wait for you to do that.
Thanks, Max.
So answer.
I want you to do what I originally did.
You're still forced to.
I asked you a question.
Sorry, don't talk over each other.
Just to be clear, Max, I asked you the question.
You chose to then personally attack Jonathan again.
So now I ask you to answer my question.
It's quite straightforward.
Economic Sanctions Impact00:06:06
Okay.
In 2017, Donald Trump shredded the Iran deal, which was designed to prevent Iran from enriching uranium.
Iran never received the benefits it was supposed to under the Iran deal.
And then in the midst of negotiations again under the second Trump administration, Donald Trump greenlit an unprovoked Israeli assault on Iran in which senior commanders were killed, nuclear scientists were assassinated.
And yes, Mossad cells inside Iran were activated to wreak havoc and carry out car bombings in typical satanic fashion.
And this is the lesson that Iran has been given ever since it entered into negotiations, which is that it's always punished with war after it negotiates away its deterrence.
And this goes back decades.
Let's consider that in 1988, the U.S. Navy, the USS Vincennes, downed an Iranian airliner, Iran Air 655, killing 290 people.
And what did George H.W. Bush say about that?
He said, I don't care what the facts are.
When America is attacked, America is always right.
We've seen dozens of nuclear scientists assassinated by Mossad cells inside Iran.
Iran is surrounded by U.S. military bases.
It's been under sanctions that have explicitly denied it the ability to even feed its own citizens.
Rudy Giuliani, who is supposed to be a guest here, who has been a paid asset for the People's MEK organization, spoke in 2018 at a People's MEK event.
And he said that Iran, he celebrated that people in Iran are now selling their organs because of sanctions.
So the forces that are arrayed against Iran don't care about the Iranian people.
All they care about is taking out an independent state and stealing its oil and preventing it from supporting Palestine.
All right, Jonathan.
All right.
Yeah, I think we should focus really on the matter at hand here.
I offer my assessment.
I think that the U.S. will strike.
And yes, I support it.
And I think that it would be the beginning of the end of a horrible regime that exports terrorism, that deals in violence, that has destabilized several countries in the Middle East.
Lebanon, Syria, Iraq, Yemen, to name a few.
They've tried in Jordan.
They haven't been very successful, but they've tried in Jordan as well.
And they have indirectly brought about the destruction of the Gaza Strip by providing weapons and money to Hamas and the Islamic Jihad.
All of that is the work of the Qudsforce and the revolutionary guard, the IRGC.
And it is a country, a regime that has an outspoken official goal to annihilate my country.
That is an official goal of the Islamic Republic of Iran.
They have it on posters in Palestine Square, Palestine Square in eastern Tehran.
And their leaders occasionally have said it.
That is what they aspire to do.
So I think it's pretty okay and understandable that I, as an Israeli, would like for that regime to be relegated to the dustbin of history and for another benign and positive regime to take control over that country.
I have no business, no Israeli has any business in governing Iran or controlling what happens.
Our business is defending ourselves.
And we, unfortunately, have been at the receiving end of an indirect war of aggression waged by the Islamic Republic of Iran against Israel.
There's 600 miles or 1,000 kilometers between Iran's western border and Israel's border, yet we find ourselves surrounded by Iranian proxies.
Hezbollah in Lebanon, Hamas and Islamic Jihad in Gaza, various Palestinian terror organizations in Judea and Samaria or the West Bank that get Iranian funding.
And all of the clues and all of the trails lead back to Iran.
That is where the money comes from.
That is where the political guidance comes from.
And I think that there is a direct connection here between what the Islamic Republic of Iran has been doing with the little resources they have instead of investing in the Iranian people, instead of managing their water system, their electrical system, controlling their resources, instead of building an economy, they have been squandering it on the fake goal of expanding the revolution, supporting proxy organizations and wreaking havoc in the Middle East.
And as a consequence, one of the consequences is that the Iranian people are today suffering because of the abysmal mismanagement of national assets at the hands of Haminai and the IRGC.
Mismanaging water, mismanaging oil and gas is what they have done.
It has nothing to do with Israel, nothing to do with anything else.
It is corruption and mismanagement that has brought that country down to its knees.
But I will tell you one thing.
I think there's one American president that hasn't so far gotten the credit that he deserves for actually starting the process that we now see come to a peak, and that is President Obama.
In his first term, he was actually the first U.S. president that under his authority, a real and credible sanctions and economic warfare process started.
We all speak about President Trump now.
Will he attack or will he not attack?
But I think that if we roll back and look at how this process started, how the weakening of the oppressive Islamic regime really started, it started with effective economic sanctions that the U.S. started under President Obama.
And I don't know if his security advisors, people like Ben Rhodes or others who I've heard them shill for the Iranian regime and criticize the current US president.
I don't know if they're happy about it, but I definitely, you won't hear me say a lot of positive things about the Obama administration's Mid Eastern policies, especially not regarding Iran.
Mass Murder vs Genocide00:14:53
This topic, I think, is important.
And I think we should give credit to Obama's first presidency for doing just that and setting into motion what we are seeing today.
Okay, back with my panel in a moment, but I want to return to the issue of those casualty figures and bring in an expert, Dr. Payem Okovan.
He's an Iranian-born human rights lawyer, former special advisor on genocide to the prosecutor of the ICC.
Well, welcome to you, Dr. Okavan.
A lot of conjecture about exactly how many people may have been killed in the regime's counter-attacks on the protesters.
What is your best estimate for what we may be looking at in terms of casualty numbers?
Thank you, Piers.
On January 23rd, we received a report based on compilation of clinical and forensic evidence, raw data provided by medical doctors at clinics, at morgues in Iran.
And based on conservative statistical estimates, at least 33,000 people have been killed in Iran during a period of just a few days.
And the images of the black body bags piling up in morgues at the notorious Kahizak location in Tehran and elsewhere throughout the country.
This is like Iran's Holocaust.
And I don't use that word lightly because the Babi Yar massacre, which was the biggest extermination of Jews outside Kiev, involved the killing exactly of 33,000 people.
It's a coincidence that we have the same number.
But even that number is conservative because we have accounts of morgues running out of body bags, of refrigerator trucks taking bodies and dumping them in mass graves, which is what Iran has done in the past, also including in 1988 at the end of the Iran-Iraq war when some 5,000 leftist political prisoners were executed.
So the number is likely to be significantly more and the killings haven't stopped.
And I was a UN prosecutor during the Yugoslav war.
The Srebrenica genocide involved the killing of 8,000 Boston Muslims during a 20-day period.
By comparison, Iran has killed four times the number in half the time.
So this is not just the worst mass killing in the contemporary history of Iran.
It is one of the worst mass killings in contemporary world history.
And it must be treated as such.
I've seen you use the phrase that the government, the Iranian regime, is exterminating its own people, and that there is a distinction between that phraseology and the word genocide.
Can you just explain from your expert position what the distinction is, albeit obviously they're very similar territory, but what is the, from a legal point of view, what is the difference, for example?
Thank you, Piers.
In 1945, the Nuremberg Charter defined crimes against humanity, which were mass atrocities, one of which was the crime of extermination.
Extermination is the systematic killing of civilian population, mass murder, if you like.
Genocide, which was then defined under a convention adopted by the UN in 1948, three years after the Nuremberg Charter, really is aimed at national, racial, religious, or national groups.
So here you have a situation where the mass murder is not necessarily against a minority, it's against the majority.
The Iranian people are the victims of the mass murder, which is why legally extermination is the more appropriate term.
And if I may just explain, there are indications that the shoot to kill orders are coming from the Supreme Leader, Khamenei.
And there is an interview in which the Chief Justice, the Chief Justice of the Supreme Court, Mohseni Egeri, is saying that the protesters are combatants.
We're in a state of war, which basically means that they are fair game, that you can have snipers and security forces with Kalushnikovs just massacring protesters because they are not innocent protesters, they're combatants.
And that is really a glimpse of the mentality of this regime and the way it treats its own people.
And finally, what is your assessment of the fragility or otherwise of this Iranian regime right now, the Ayatollah?
Many people feel it is at a tipping point, which has never been at before.
Others point to a number of uprisings in the past that were quashed and they carried on in power.
What is your sense about where we are with this?
Well, Pierce, I'm a human rights lawyer, not a political analyst, but I do believe that it is exceedingly difficult for the Islamic Republic to rule indefinitely through mass violence and terror.
In the long term, there must be some legitimacy, there must be some viability.
A government has to be able to meet the basic needs of its people.
And I don't think the Iranian people will ever forget what has happened to their brothers and sisters in these past days.
There is no forgetting, there is no going back.
But at the same time, I am very concerned that in order to stay in power, in order to survive, the Islamic Republic will kill as many people as it needs to.
And this is because of this fanatical ideology, which believes that you must sacrifice as many lives as are necessary to protect a government which at least its more fanatical leaders believe represents God on earth.
So I'm afraid that we may have dark days ahead, which is why it's essential for the world community not to forget the people of Iran and to condemn the mass killings that have been committed in the past days.
And before I go to Max Blumenthal again, he's on the panel.
Who doesn't believe these, who doesn't believe these casualty numbers?
What is your message directly to people like him who think these numbers are massively inflated?
Well, I simply think that whatever ideologies we have, if we believe in universal human rights, then it shouldn't matter who the victims are: Israeli, Palestinian, Iranian.
We're dealing with tens of thousands of young people who are simply protesting because they want a better future.
These protests are nothing new.
They have occurred throughout the 50-year history of the Islamic Republic.
They've always been met with violent repression.
And I think that we need to stand with the people of Iran.
We are not foolish enough to think that the foreign powers are not pursuing their own interests, but that does not justify mass murder against the people of Iran.
But on that point, Dr. Okavandi, the numbers themselves, Max Blumenthal will simply say these have all come from dubious sources.
He doesn't believe them.
He thinks they're massively inflated.
What is your response to that before he says it?
Well, I've been a human rights lawyer, UN prosecutor, for 35 years.
I'm not a propagandist.
And I gave you the sources of the numbers.
We have people in clinics, in morgues throughout Iran that have compiled statistics.
And a statistician can also extrapolate from the raw data a conservative estimate, which in this case is 33,000 killed as of January 23rd.
And the killings haven't stopped.
And we now have the accounts of bodies that are simply being dumped in mass graves, which means that 33,000 would probably be a significant underestimation.
And the images coming out of Karizak of the black body bags, hundreds and hundreds of black body bags is just one glimpse of the scale of this mass murder.
So I really think that we should not be playing politics with the precious lives of human beings.
And we need to think seriously about the people of Iran, not whatever ideology we're playing with.
And I must say that it is deeply, deeply insulting when people, for whatever ideological posture that they have, try to underestimate or minimize this horrific nightmare that we are going through.
We are a deeply, deeply traumatized people within the country, within the diaspora, and we need to listen to the voices of the people who've lost their children rather than political pundits and their games.
Dr. Okavan, thank you very much indeed for joining me.
Thank you.
Thank you, Pierce.
Let's go back to the panel.
Max Blimentar, I can hear you laughing in the background there.
What was so funny about that?
Accusing us of playing political games when that's exactly what's taking place here on this program.
And it's an insult to the intelligence of the viewers that this regime change activist who is furnishing numbers provided by the monarchist network, which is calling for the bombing of Iran, furnishing these numbers when he calls it a Holocaust, when he would never dare call what Israel did in the Gaza Strip, where it wiped Gaza off the map and killed tens of thousands of children.
He would never call that a Holocaust.
There would never be this kind of sanction applied to Israel.
And that really exposes the double standards here.
I provided you with the source of that 30,000.
It is Amir Parasta, a lobbyist for Reza Pahlavi.
And I don't care if this guy hides behind the UN or some fake credential.
It's obvious what he is doing.
He's doing the same thing that we've been subjected to in Libya when we were told that Gaddafi was supplying his soldiers with Viagra, when we were told that Assad violated the red line, when we were told that Saddam Hussein was taking Kuwaiti babies off their incubators, and it turned out the Kuwaiti ambassador paid for that entire SIOP.
We are being subjected to another regime change SIOP in order to distract us from the Holocaust of our time that was just committed before our very eyes.
And here's one thing that your guest will not acknowledge, which is that the riots that took place in Iran killed hundreds of police officers, hundreds of unarmed guards, civilians.
750 banks were destroyed.
350 mosques were burned.
Mosques were burned on camera.
Anyone watching this can see footage of mosques being burned.
The Abazar Mosque, the Grand Mosque of Sarablé were burned by the figures that he says are just peaceful protesters.
Hundreds of cops were buried in public funerals, and millions of Iranians came out to condemn these Israeli-backed regime change riots.
And I asked, what would the U.S. or UK do if rioters were killing hundreds of cops in their cities?
What would Donald Trump do whose forces are shooting Americans in their faces in the street?
And we're fighting for freedom in the United States.
People who Jonathan Conriquez has attacked in the UK, Palestine solidarity protesters, are not allowed to say, I support Palestine action or globalize the intifada.
And Pierce, if the UK is a free country, then you will declare, I support Palestine action and defy your security services right now.
Okay, Jonathan, your response.
Do I have a word?
Yeah.
Can I say that?
I support Palestine action.
Am I allowed to say that on a program?
You can say whatever you want.
I don't have to go along with it.
Jonathan.
Yeah, I hope that the Iranian regime pays you well in whatever currency they have.
They don't have a lot of money left, but I hope that you're not.
Well, I'm not violating sanctions by the grave audience.
I didn't interrupt you, Max.
I didn't interrupt you.
You falsely accused me of being paid by Iran.
I didn't think you were a war criminal.
Yeah, because the only logic that I can find, the only logic that I can find for someone like you sitting in the comfort of the West of a free democratic society with civil rights, rule of law, respect for minorities, religious freedom, political freedom, the only logic that I could find for you advocating for an oppressive Islamist regime and whitewashing their crime is that they must be available.
You advocate for an oppressive Jewish supremacist regime.
Because they are, what you are doing is asking for freedom.
That are asking for a better future for themselves and their children.
They're asking not to be oppressed.
Women asking, women asking to have been covered and to walk without a male chaperone.
Young men wanting a better future without religious oppression.
These are the people that have gone out bravely on Iranian streets and they have marched against the thugs of the Islamists.
They have blown them with machine gun fire.
And you are whitewashing their crimes.
So I don't know what kind of a conscience you have.
I don't know what kind of a conscience you have.
I don't know how you can say that.
They're sitting here apologizing and whitewashing the crimes of an oppressive regime and doing it with a straight face and even getting excited about police officers or mosques being damaged.
I don't hear any excitement about thousands of Iranians.
Thousands of Iranians that have been Israel destroying God.
Insult to National Agency00:13:32
Okay, I want to ask Jonathan a question.
Jonathan, Jonathan, just quickly.
Jonathan, Jonathan, hang on.
Hang on, please.
Hang on.
Jonathan, do you think Donald Trump is a war criminal?
Please let me ask him a question.
Jonathan, do you think Donald Trump is going to attack Iran?
I think he is, yes.
Okay.
Well, we'll see what happens.
It's going to be a huge, huge moment if Donald Trump does do that.
And I'm sure we can come back and debate it again.
But for now, we've got to leave it there.
Thank you both very much.
Well, I'm now joined by the Iranian-American activist, Masih Al-Linejad, who we speak to from outside a courtroom in New York.
Massey, welcome back to Uncensored.
Thank you so much, Piers, for having me.
Well, I can't think of many more important or vital people to have on the show at this particular moment.
But just for those who aren't aware of what's going on in New York, why are you outside a courtroom there?
I have just faced one of my would-be assassin.
He was hired by the Islamic Republic to kill me at Fairfield University, where I was scheduled to give a talk, Carl Rivera.
He is a convicted murderer.
He killed someone here in America, but the Islamic Republic Revolutionary Guards, Farhad Shakari, operating from IRGC, who was in prison in America, found him, so ordered him to kill me.
And Farhad Shakari is the mastermind behind another assassination plot against President Trump.
You know what, when I've seen him in the court, I felt disgusted.
Like it was disgusting to see him just accepting money because of money, being hired by one of the most dangerous terrorist organizations, IRGC, to kill me on U.S. soil.
And I told him on his face that the same people that you accepted money are now massacring my people in Iran, up to 40,000 people.
I told him, and I said the prosecutor in the court as well.
I said, I don't have anything else to say to this convicted murderer.
I want to talk directly to Ali Khamenei and IRGC who ordered my killing and who is actually ordering the massacre inside Iran.
And what is your message to the Supreme Leader?
To be honest, I don't have a message for him.
I want the U.S. government to take action against him.
This is what I said here.
And I really believe this is the message of millions of people inside Iran.
Piers, I have seen my would-be assassin in front of my eyes in my garden with AK-47.
If it was not the U.S. law enforcement protecting me, I could have been dead.
Of course, I want the same protection for unarmed Iranians right now.
That's why I don't have any message to a killer who literally ordering massacre.
He doesn't understand the language of diplomacy.
He doesn't understand his language to talk to me and Iranians or AK-47.
Guns and bullets, military weapons, raping women.
They storm into hospitals right now that I'm talking to you, finishing up the wounded one and also arresting the doctors and nurses who help the wounded one and making sure that they can kill everyone who speaks up.
That's why they don't understand my language and I don't have any message for Ali Khamenei.
Ali Khamenei behaves like ISIS to me and millions of Iranians, to me and millions of people in Syria, in Iraq, in the Middle East, even in Palestine, who believe that Ali Khamenei is the greatest sponsor of Hamas and Hamas is the one ruining the life of innocent Palestinians, all of us in the Middle East.
We need to see that Ali Khamenei being removed because he is the root cause of all the chaos, mayhem, an endless war taking in the region, not just in the region.
Maduro was not alone.
Ali Khamenei invaded and his revolutionary guards and Hezbollah, they invaded Venezuela.
Adi Khomeini is the one sending drone to kill innocent Ukrainians.
So basically, when they don't understand the language of diplomacy, when their language is military weapons, then they should be removed.
They should be taking out.
The U.S. government and the leaders of G7, other free world, when I ask them to take actions, military, targeted military action against the killers, because I believe that this is not just a charity thing to the people of Iran.
It's their duty to stop massacre and to stop the terrorist regime in Iran.
President Trump has put out a statement today threatening the Iranian regime and the Ayatollah with war, effectively.
He said he's sending the Armada, as he put it over there, the one that was sent to Venezuela when Maduro was taken out.
What would you like to see happen here?
Would you like to see the United States militarily attack Iran?
You know, when you say Iran, it breaks my heart.
Iran is my beloved country.
Iran is a country that we love it.
I have family there.
Iran is being invaded by the Islamic Republic.
So let's make it very clear.
I don't want Iran and Iranians to be killed or I don't want any bomb to Iranians.
And that's what the West get it wrong.
When I say targeted military action, some in the West immediately jump into Iraq or Libya or Afghanistan.
But this is not the full history and not the honest one.
We have different examples.
Let me just give it to you.
In Gambia, when the dictator refused to step down from power after losing an election, what helped the people in Gambia to have a transition from dictatorship to democracy?
Targeted, calculated military action.
In Bosnia, the world waited too long until the massacre was unfolded in the country.
And then military, targeted action stopped the massacre.
Maybe peace was not perfect, but that stopped the massacre.
In Kosovo, the same.
Only diplomatic pressure and also targeted military action stopped humanitarian catastrophe.
This is the same in Iran.
We don't want the US government, the U.S. tanks or soldiers walking in the street.
We're not talking about chaos or occupation.
We're not talking about intervention.
We're talking about targeted, calculated action against the terrorists that turn their military weapons into an instrument of mass killings and massacre.
That's not me saying that.
Iranians, I'm in touch with them every day, Piers.
I'm talking to them.
They say that there's only one option.
Otherwise, the regime in Iran will turn the mass arrest to mass executions.
And finally, Masih, you have a standing courage.
You're a very heroic figure to many millions of Iranians.
And you keep coming out, talking out publicly, even in front of a courtroom where somebody is in there right now who was trying to murder you.
And I salute you for that courage.
Do you believe, as some people do, Increasing number do, that the Iranian regime and the supreme leader, the Ayatollah, that they are on the verge of potentially being toppled, or do you fear it's just another uprising that they have violently quashed and that it will come to nothing?
That's a very good question, but let me add something to your beautiful words to me, myself.
I am pleased that you call me a brave or courageous woman.
But if you see that I am brave here in America, then see millions of unarmed women and men shoulder to shoulder.
They are my heroes.
They are the heroes of millions of people across the globe.
Because with empty hand, they're not just fighting for Iran.
They're not just trying to free Iran.
They're protecting the U.S. national security, the U.S. security as well, the global security.
Their terrorists, the Iranian regime's terrorists, are walking freely in your country, in the UK.
They are braver than the UK prime minister.
Believe me.
Because the UK Prime Minister, President Macron, leaders of G7, they're sitting on their sofa and saying that we're watching the situation.
They condemn that.
They say we stand with the people of Iran.
Enough of standing with the people of Iran.
We don't want you to stand with us.
We want you to sit down, all of you, to make concrete decision to end terrorism.
That's what we want.
So back to your question.
This is the Berlin Wall moment for Iranians.
But let's be honest.
When East Germany managed to bring the wall of dictators down, they were not alone.
The whole world were united.
The whole world.
So that time America took the lead.
I'm not saying that President Trump is like, is another President Reagan.
Whether you like Trump or not, but he knows the language of dictators right now.
Some people in the West are busy criticizing Trump for saying that America is locked and loaded to target Ali Khamenei and his gang of killers.
And some are actually busy to criticize him for not taking actions.
They're lost.
Left and liberal are sympathizing with the Islamic Republic.
They're actually mocking us.
They're mocking us.
They're calling that this is an external regime change being imposed to Iranians by President Trump and Netanyahu.
We have agency.
Iranians took to the streets six times after the Islamic Revolution occupied Iran.
Six times and they made it clear they want to change this regime.
This is an insult to a nation and their agency.
So when the world, I mean, I'm talking about left and liberal, they're sympathizing by Hamas, with Heizwallah, with Houthi, with the Islamic Republic, mullahs, and they keep quiet, all of them, all of them.
Where is Michelle Obama?
Where is Barack Obama?
Where is Oprah, Hillary Clinton, all those celebrities, AOC, Ilhan Omar.
But at the same time, MAGA people make America great.
They say that it's all about America, America first.
And I want to tell them, for the ayatollahs, America is first too.
The first target to destruction, the first target that they want to destroy is America.
When they say death to America, they mean it.
So my people are sacrificing their life to protect global security, to protect America, to protect the UK from one of the most dangerous cancer, which is called the Islamic Republic.
So your question, are they going to win with empty hand?
Let's be very honest.
We need to get the leaders of G7 to be as brave as Iranians and help us to end this regime.
We need the US government to stick with its promises to end this regime.
Otherwise, look, I have no fear.
My people have no fear.
They say goodbye to their parents and they go to the street.
I don't know even what happens to my brother and my family when I talk to you.
I have seen my would-be assassin three times here in America.
But I'm not scared.
But this is a humiliation to the free world.
This is scary that how the regime in Iran challenging U.S. national security three times.
Challenging the UK government on their on UK soil many times and still you allowing the Islamic Republic diplomats and their relative, the children of the Ayatollahs who chant death to America, death to Israel, death to the whole world, walking freely in America, in the UK, in everywhere.
So get, be brave, as brave as the people of Iran.
Kick out the Islamic Republic Ayatollahs, the Revolutionary Guards members, their diplomats, shut down their embassy and help the people of Iran to get rid of Islamic Republic.
That's how we can say, yes, this is the end of the regime.
Sooner or later, we will get rid of the Islamic Republic, but the history will judge Prime Minister of the UK, President Macron, German Chancellor, all the G7 leaders who still hesitate to designate revolutionary guards as a terrorist organization.
Shame on them.
Masi Alenajad, it's always very powerful to talk to you, and never more so than right now.
Brave Voice for Freedom00:01:45
Thank you very much for taking the time to come back on Uncensored.
Thank you so much for having me and giving voice to millions of Iranians right now who are facing massacre, Piers Morgan.
Thank you so much.
Well, you're the one giving them the voice and it's a powerful voice and I salute your courage.
I really do.
Best of luck to you.
Promise me you're not going to give the platform to Marandi and other.
They have enough platform inside Iran.
They don't deserve to enjoy the privilege of freedom of speech when they put the whole country in absolute darkness, digital blackout.
Kick them out.
Believe me.
If you say that this is freedom of speech, we want to hear what they say.
We want to learn what they believe.
But you don't need to because we know that.
No, I do think, Professor.
And we know what.
I do think Mirandi's...
Yeah, I think Mirandi is a propagandist for the regime.
And I can't imagine not be having him back anytime soon.
Kick him out.
I do.
My heart aches when I see that this fucking killer has come to your show.
Yeah, he just comes on online.
I know.
It's great to talk to you.
But I really do mean it when I say best of luck.
Thank you.
Your life's always in danger.
It's incredibly courageous what you do, but it's so important too.
So I really wish you all the very best and come back on soon.
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