The International Olympic Committee says it’s moving towards a complete ban on transgender women in female categories, ending years of dithering and delay. Initial findings from a science-based review indicate that athletes born male retain obvious physical advantages, even after treatments to reduce testosterone levels - and so, the ban will be in place before the 2028 Olympics in Los Angeles. Joining Piers Morgan to discuss this is Angel City FC player Elizabeth Eddy - who has faced backlash from her teammates after writing an opinion piece on the issue for the New York Times - as well as trans YouTuber Blaire White, trans rights advocate Dr Helen Webberley and comedian and commentator James Barr. Piers Morgan Uncensored is proudly independent and supported by: ExpressVPN: Right now you can get an extra four months of ExpressVPN for free. Just scan the QR code on the screen, or go to https://ExpressVPN.com/PIERS and get four extra months for free. Oxford Natural: To watch their full stories, scan the QR code on your screen or visit https://oxfordnatural.com/piers/ to get 70% off your first order when you use code PIERS. Tax Network USA: Call 1-800-958-1000 or visit https://TNUSA.com/PIERS to speak with a strategist for FREE today Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices
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Bullying vs Reasonable Disagreement00:02:52
I've had a lot of combos with my teammates.
They are disgusted by some of the things that were said in the article.
Don't let your teammates bully you.
You're right.
They're wrong.
Reasonable people can disagree when it comes to this topic, but there's no need to go to name-calling and bullying.
This insistence from trans rights activists and people on the left that trans women are women and they've reduced it to this one sentence, this one slogan.
That's what creates this ridiculous argument.
Patriarchy just hate women and just want to bully them on every single level.
What a statement of utterly cretamous absurdity.
The International Olympic Committee says it's moving toward a complete ban on transgender women in female categories, ending years of dithering and delay.
Initial findings from a science-based review indicate that athletes born male retain obvious physical advantages even after treatments to reduce testosterone levels.
The ban will be in place before the 2028 Olympics in Los Angeles.
This is despite Democratic candidate for governor Betty Yee telling me that she'd like to see a gender-neutral Olympics.
I think transgender female athletes are women athletes and they should be able to compete.
Really?
So you, if you were governor of California, you would support biological males who identify as women competing in women's sport in the Olympics.
They are now identified as transgender female.
And you think that makes, and you think it's fair that they should then compete in women's sport?
I think she should be able to compete in women's sports.
Well, as ever, trans activists blame right-wing flamethrowers for amplifying a minority issue.
But this week brought more evidence that if there is any organized lobbying to silence criticism from the other side, it's the LGBTQIA2SL campaigners.
The leaked BBC memo, which exposed its hatchet job on President Trump, also had plenty to say about this issue.
It revealed that a team of specialist gender reporters kept critical stories off air, resulting in, quote, a constant drip feed of one-sided stories, celebrating the trans experience without adequate balance or objectivity.
These included glowing reports about the nutritional benefits of trans breast milk.
Well, joining me now to debate all of this is Angel City FC's player Elizabeth Eddy, commentator and YouTuber Blair White, the trans rights advocate Dr. Helen Weberly, and the comedian and commentator James Barr.
Elizabeth, let me start with you.
You wrote an op-ed piece about this issue, which led to a furious reaction from some of your teammates.
First of all, for those who didn't read the op-ed, what was the central point of your argument?
First of all, thank you, Pierce, for having me.
Biological Sex and Fairness00:15:50
You've got a really cool thing where you bring a lot of people to the table with differing views.
I think that's the way forward.
So thank you.
What I wrote at the op-ed about is that I believe women's sports do need to be for women simply because biological sex is as women are weaker than men, intersex and trans athletes.
That has nothing to say against intersex or trans athletes.
They're people and they're amazing and they deserve to be respected.
But because women have biological weakerness, they need to be protected.
And what was the reaction to your op-ed?
You had your own colleagues who you play with going public and attacking you.
We've all obviously seen the article that was written in the New York Post earlier this week.
So I really want to start off by saying that that article does not speak for this team in this locker room.
I've had a lot of combos with my teammates in the past few days and they are hurt and they are harmed by the article and also they are disgusted by some of the things that were said in the article.
So that was Sarah Gordon, you know, one of your teammates calling it transphobic.
What was your reaction when you saw that?
Reasonable people can disagree when it comes to this topic, but there's no need to go to name-calling and bullying because it doesn't set a good example moving forward.
I mean, that must have caused, I imagine, a lot of tension between you guys.
Have you been able to resolve things?
As it stands, I have invited her to my wedding and she has said yes.
And the invite's been sent out, and it still stands because, again, I think offering an olive branch and trying to find the space where we can coexist and have this conversation is really important, but I haven't heard back yet.
I mean, my experience, I have to say, is that if you raise your head above this parapet, we've seen it with Riley Gaines, J.K. Rowling and others, any woman who stands up and says this is unfair, which it is, immediately gets branded transphobic to shut them down.
Do you think that that is a pretty lazy and disingenuous way of dealing with this debate?
I do, and I also understand where people can get really emotional, and that's where it might take a little time to come back to the table.
But I do think in time, like given compassion and kindness of just showing goodwill of continuing to say, hey, I'm here to discuss, we can do this together.
We don't have to fully agree, but we do need to talk about it so we can move it forward instead of completely shutting down the conversation.
Okay, Dr. Anna Werberley, I mean, I literally had a candidate to be governor of California on last, two weeks ago, arguing there should be a gender-neutral Olympic, seemingly oblivious to the reality that if there was a gender-neutral Olympics, women would barely win any medal.
They might win, I think, one or two bronzes in the entire Olympic Games.
It would be the end of women's sport.
So why is what we've just heard from Elizabeth wrong?
Why is she not actually just defending the obvious integrity of women's sport against something which is obviously unfair?
I mean, I think, Pierce, that we all want fairness, and we don't want anything to be unfair.
And I think that's what your guest is saying.
But it's what is making it unfair?
Is it the fact that they are transgender?
Or is it the fact that they have a bigger body or bigger lung capacity or a stronger grip or better exercise tolerance?
And it's, are we banning the right thing?
Are we banning the thing that actually leads to unfairness, which is a gender identity, rather than the advantage?
That's the question.
We all want fairness in sport and nobody wants women's sports.
But the obvious question, well, would you endorse a gender-neutral Olympics?
I don't think that's the way forward.
No, I don't think that everyone endorse.
Why?
Why?
Well, for the very reasons that you've just said.
I mean, you say that we'd only get a few bronzes as women, but maybe in the less powerful sports.
I mean, I can't see a gender-neutral Wimbledon final ever having a female winner.
But darts or something.
Why do you think that is?
Well, you know why it is, because the majority of adult men who've gone through puberty are stronger, as your guest said, than adult females.
Right.
So you agree that actually that trans athletes should be banned from the Olympics, as appears to myself.
Why are you banning trans?
It's the transgender thing, because it's that blanket ban of a gender identity.
Because they're biological men.
But again, that's an idea.
That's just a sex.
But what we're trying to do is fairness in sport.
So we want people to...
It's not just sex, it's their biology.
Their biology gives them an unfair advantage over biological women.
It's just a fact.
That's why we set that up.
So Pierce, sorry to interrupt.
I think that's going to be a sweeping standard.
Dumb of you, to be honest, if you're not actually listening to what your doctor you really got.
Well, it's not about whether they're trans or not, it's about their biological differences.
And if we looked at sport, if we looked at everybody's bodies and capability different and categorize people by strength, then we could have a gender-neutral Olympics because we'd have people who are equally playing against each other.
Okay, which event do you think we could have a gender?
I have no idea, but if you look at people's bodies and their shapes and their sizes, give me more strength instead.
I don't know, slapping.
Let's look at slapping contests.
I'm pretty sure there's a lot of people that would like to slap you regardless of shape, to be honest with you.
I'm sure there are, mate.
I'm sure there are.
But would you like to see 100 meters, for example, which have men and women in it?
I'm only saying that that would work if people are categorized by their ability rather than their biological sex.
No, it's complete nonsense.
It's complete nonsense.
People's biological sex affects.
Well, mate, in which case they wouldn't be in the same category, would they?
But if you're looking at it fairly and openly for everybody, you would look at capability.
And if it so happened that all men were separate because they were definitely better than women in this case, or stronger or whatever it is you're saying, then you wouldn't have that.
James, you're totally and utterly going to be aware of that.
Well, I think you'll do it because you're always making this third category for this gender-neutral idea.
Let me explain something to you.
Serena Williams was asked publicly on television whether she could beat any of the top thousand men.
I think John McEnroe had said it, and then she was asked whether she agreed that none of the top thousand men would lose against Serena Williams at her peak.
That she's the greatest tennis player in female tennis history.
She admitted that she would probably not beat any of the top thousand men players in the world.
There, right there, is the problem because Serena is a fantastically strong, powerful.
But we're not talking about men.
We're talking the greatest to ever play the game.
We're talking about other women, trans women.
We are.
No, we're not.
This is the problem though.
We're calling them women.
They're trans women and they're trans athletes.
But we aren't aware of when they transitioned or what their biology is.
And that, I guess, it doesn't matter.
It does actually singing regardless of what it is.
The biology is a matter of money.
It's their biology.
What are you talking about?
It does matter.
And no, what matters is their biology.
Are you a darling?
Are you admitting that?
I'm Donder Jane Thornton.
So here's the thing.
I know more than the doctor, yes, about this.
Right.
Sure.
Okay, Piers did throw it to me.
So if I could just say, fourth-grade biology debunks trans women in women's sports.
So the fact that the IOC even had to weigh in is actually really sad.
I don't really know the argument that these other two on the panel are trying to make.
Yes, there are biological differences from trans women and biological women because there are biological differences between men and women.
And I feel like they're kind of playing in this game of like, they just don't want to admit it.
But this is that like 80-20 issue, at least here in the States, that like it's, it's ridiculous.
It's even being debated.
And the fact is, it's not just a few things that differentiate men and women when it comes to puberty.
It comes to heart size, lung size, bone density, overall size, height, lung capacity.
It's such a long list.
It's so thoroughly debunked.
And frankly, you know, as a trans person on the panel, I'm so sick of these sorts of issues being pushed on to women, first of all, and also trans people.
The last decade of these progressive policies that are supposedly meant to push society forward into a more inclusive society to help trans people have actually just turned trans people into this political football that no one, frankly, on this side that I know of asked for.
But then you always have, and this is a perfect example, time after time on this panel, people who are not trans arguing for these policies that do nothing but enact backlash against trans people.
And so it's kind of hard to understand where you guys are coming from.
I know you're doing it in the name of like fairness and equality, and you want to fight for the underdog.
Can I explain that?
I think you guys have it twisted who the underdog is, because if it's a woman versus a trans woman in a sport, the underdog is the woman.
Can I tell you where I'm coming from?
Because I think that's a really valid point, and I appreciate it.
I am basically here because I genuinely believe that conversations like this are using trans people as a political football, and it's ridiculous and wrong.
And actually, when we're talking about fairness in women's sport, we shouldn't be focusing on 0.0001% of trans women who compete in the Olympics.
We should be talking about pay differences.
We should be talking about the misogyny.
We should be talking about the fact that one statistic said 65% of women in sport in the UK have been abused by cis men.
That's what we should be talking about when it comes to women's safety in sport, not a non-conversations.
Okay, hang on, hang on, hang on, Blair, hang on, hang on, hang on, Blair, hang on.
I want to take him up on that.
Okay, so you've just made a very impassioned statement about wanting to protect women and protect women's rights.
Am I right?
Yeah, I feel like you think you've got some gotcha hip here, but I'm ready for it.
Not a gotcha.
I'm just going to take you back to the Olympics, the last Olympics, where an Algerian boxer called Iman Khalif, who had been banned from the world championships for having male chromosomes, beat up a young female Italian boxer so badly in the female competition that the Italian boxer quit after 40 seconds, saying she'd never been hit that hard in her life.
And they are wrong.
Where is your campaigning?
Where is your campaigning?
No, no.
And it's funny that you bring it up.
Iman Khalif is not a woman.
And all Iman Khalif has to do is take a sex test, which will be what they all have to do going forward to establish that once and for all.
But Iman Khalif has resolutely refused to do that.
We know why, because she was caught before the last world championships testing positive for male chromosomes.
So you would basically be endorsing in your campaigning for women's rights and protecting women for biological men to get in a boxing ring and beat up women in a way that could endanger their lives.
Iman Khalif is a woman.
A ridiculously deluded hypocrite.
Iman Khalif is not a woman.
They are a woman.
That's what they've told us.
They're a woman.
I think chromosomes are not.
That's what very complicated.
I don't protest to know or understand chromosomes, but I do realize that some people are also intersex.
Some people have more chromosomes to the male or female.
It doesn't mean they're not necessarily a man or woman, born a man or woman at birth.
And what you're saying is you're basically saying that I am not advocating for women's safety because I believe that a man was okay.
But what you're doing here is you're actually attacking a woman yourself.
So are you advocating for women's safety whilst you're not on television?
No, I'm attacking a woman.
Yeah, go for it.
Let me answer.
I'm attacking a biological man for cheating by competing in women's sports.
So they have a superior biology.
They're not here to defend themselves.
Which is why they won.
It's why they won the gold medal.
And that is cheating.
It's as cheating as doping.
They have an unfair physical advantage.
And in a boxing ring, it can be a fatal, unfair physical advantage.
So all the hypocrites like you, Jay, but that comes back to my point about biology.
I'm here to defend.
I'm here to protect women against vile citizens.
It's just a matter of time.
You've transitioned from an equal pay argument and a single person.
It is a significant argument and an abuse argument to Woman at the Olympics in Paris.
Not one woman.
Not one woman.
That's why we're saying all transparency.
That's the argument you've come back to.
No, I'm about.
No, no.
Let me finish my point.
My argument is all trans athletes should be banned from women's sports.
And what do you think should happen to the misogyny that's occurring in women's sport by cis men?
What are your thoughts on that?
That should also be banned and targeted and people held to account.
Do you think so?
Absolutely.
100%.
Do you think they're doing good?
Do you think we should talk about that even more?
Do you think the balance is slightly off?
I've probably written more about that than you have.
I'd imagine you have.
Yeah.
I'd love to read it.
I have.
So thank you.
Let me come back to Elizabeth, if I may.
This is part of the thing, Elizabeth, is a lot of the people who kind of, in my opinion, virtue signal about women's rights, they do so right to the point where they cannot bring themselves to see common sense about this trans issue with sport.
When to me, it's so obvious.
And I say that as someone who identifies as pretty liberal, right?
I want trans people.
I think they have a right to exist.
I believe they exist.
I want them to have rights to fairness, equality, and safety, but not at the expense of women's rights.
That's why I applaud you for that op-ed you wrote, because obviously, obviously, biological men, which is why we separate the sexes in sport historically, at the Olympics, at world championships, and so on, they obviously have an unfair advantage.
To me, it is the same as doping.
You're just cheating.
I agree with pretty much everything you just said.
And I think at the end of the day, what we're really trying to do is protect women's category in all levels.
So there is like misogyny happening, but it almost happens in and of itself through this trans situation and intersex.
But at the end of the day, like Chris was saying, the trans and intersex people are valuable.
They need to be protected.
They also are vulnerable, but they're differently vulnerable than women.
And women do need their own category, which is why we fought for women's rights, why we have women's sports, why Title IX happened.
And so moving forward, the same way women fought for rights to be protected and have spaces is the same way we can move to protect trans people and intersex people and give them opportunities in sport.
This is newer and it's earlier on.
And we're going to be in this together.
And so we can keep having this conversation, but the women's category must be protected.
And the NWSL needs to establish gender eligibility on biological sex to ensure fairness and continue the momentum we have going forward.
100%, Blair?
That's a really good point.
And I think this insistence from trans rights activists and people on the left that trans women are women and they reduce it to this one sentence, this one slogan, rather than acknowledge the differences between them, that's what creates this ridiculous argument and has people going against what I know is true.
And I know that the two leftists on the panel right now are very occupied with rights for trans people and for women.
Prioritizing Women's Sports Community00:04:47
But I feel like there's been an erosion of the definition of the word right in recent years.
I feel like people think that playing in a sport is a right.
And this is not a right.
At least in the United States, you have things like right to property, right to expression, freedom of speech, right to fairness under the law, not the right to fairness from a sports league and certainly not the Olympics, you know, at the elite level.
So for me, this is the easiest thing to let go of, the idea that trans women must be in women's sports, especially if the trade-off is just getting people to take that community ever so slightly more seriously.
And it's really, really difficult to hear people still insisting that this has to be an ongoing argument when the argument's been done, you know, especially when you look at the election in the States in last year, almost a year ago now, we've really come to a consensus where it's like, we're throwing away the things that we realize don't work.
You know, we just made sure gay marriage is still a thing here in the States, but we're getting rid of trans women in women's sports because that's an excess.
And it only stands to benefit these minorities that you guys are so fighting for to let go of these ridiculous ideas.
Like, just let it go, please.
The thing is, James thinks he knows more about trans rights than you do.
That's absolutely right.
And he doesn't.
And he does not know.
That's not true.
And actually, I agree with a lot of what you've just said, to be honest with you.
I do think you're walking and choosing what things the American government are doing that you're okay with and aren't, which is interesting.
You're completely denying a lot of things they've done wrong.
Like what?
Well, they've banned abortion.
Like what?
Because I know.
They're telling a lot of women what they can and cannot do with their bodies across multiple different states.
And I think they didn't pass an equal pay bill.
So, you know, I think we can pick and choose what arguments we want to bring here.
But ultimately, I wouldn't say as a sweeping statement, they're doing the right thing on everything, which, you know, it's fine.
But let's staying on topic.
I do think you're right.
And I'm not insisting that trans women are in sport.
I'm merely saying, I'm merely having the conversation.
And I'm saying when we have arguments and conversations like this, what we're doing, and I think we probably agree, to be honest, I think what happens is we get into this big argument about women's safety, but we're really missing the point: these people are humans and it's affecting not really that many people.
The argument is affecting millions.
I don't think anyone denies that they're humans.
And I don't think the amount of people it affects, first of all, you guys have been saying the same thing that it's almost virtually never happening since the beginning when it maybe was a lot more rare.
But it's happening all over the world now, not just in the States, also in the UK, clearly.
If it's happening at the Olympic level, that's international.
So I feel like you guys hide behind, well, it's not that many people.
But then if I, I bet if I brought up the topic of abortion, you're going to invoke the 2.0.5% of people who are 11 years old and blessed by their father having a baby.
That's what ULX would make the example out of.
So I don't think it matters how many people.
And even it's still a lie that it's like almost no people.
It's an ever-growing issue.
You know what?
The reality is that a year ago, the United Nations came out with a report saying that nearly a thousand medals had been deprived from biological females by trans athletes in sport at all levels in that year.
And that's just completely wrong.
If it was anything else that was causing that, that was that unfair, then we would just ban it immediately.
And it's not because I don't want trans athletes to compete.
They should either compete against their biological sex, as almost all of them have done far less successfully before, or they compete in a new category.
You know, there are so many more people identifying as trans.
Fine.
You could be a trans female athlete, just compete, or trans woman athlete against other trans women athletes.
I've had this idea of the trans Olympics.
Right.
I always say this.
I've been saying it for years.
Why isn't there a league just for trans people?
There certainly is enough of them, especially these days.
And historically, totally agree.
And you know what, Blair?
I agree.
And you know what?
You never, ever, ever read a story about a trans man dominating men's sport.
Why do you think that is?
Right.
Why is it always only the trans women?
Oh, could it be?
Could it be because trans men are biological female and therefore have a physical inferior disadvantage when they compete against people?
Or could it be that society, the patriarchy, just hate women and just want to bully them on every single level?
Yeah, no, wonderful way to end.
What a statement.
What a statement of utterly cretinous absurdity on which to end.
You never let me down, James Barr.
Thank you all very much indeed for the debate.
Elizabeth, I'm right here for you and your op-ed.
Don't let your teammates bully you.
You're right.
They're wrong.
And history will judge you accordingly.
History Will Judge Accordingly00:00:53
Elizabeth, thank you very much for appearing on Uncensored.
Yeah.
Elizabeth and I are saying the same thing.
You just prefer the way she says it.
Your book's The Woke is Dead.
I appreciate it.
Nuances dad would be dead, but unfortunately, it is dead, but a few people like you keep popping up.
Empathy is dead.
It's a bit like whack-a-mole.
It's like whack-a-mole.
We have to whack you back into your box whenever you emerge.
Thank you all very much.
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