Candace Owens vs Piers Morgan - Their Best Debate Moments!
Candace Owens is never far from controversy - from turning on Trump to her lawsuit drama with the Macrons - but to her credit, she never backs down, especially on Uncensored. Here's the best of her appearances with Piers Morgan! Piers Morgan Uncensored is proudly independent and supported by: Birch Gold: Visit https://birchgold.com/piers to get your free info kit on gold. Tax Network USA: Call 1-800-958-1000 or visit https://TNUSA.com/PIERS to meet with a strategist today for FREE Beam: Visit https://shopbeam.com/PIERS and use code PIERS to get our exclusive discount of up to 40% off. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices
Transcriber: nvidia/parakeet-tdt-0.6b-v2, sat-12l-sm, and large-v3-turbo
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Kanye, Harvey, and Interesting Responses00:09:15
Candice Owens is ever far away from controversy, from turning on Trump to being sued by the president and First Lady of France.
To her credit, she doesn't back down from any uncensored debates.
Candice, how are you?
I'm doing well, Pierce.
How are you?
You've been very busy.
I have been busy indeed, much too busy, but it's always a blessing.
So I'm grateful.
Well, look, it's good to have you on.
So much to talk to you about.
I want to start with Ye, Kanye West.
You know, I've got to say, personally, I know that you've had a good relationship with him.
You've talked to him and so on, as I have done.
I interviewed him, try to give him a bit of benefit of the doubt over various things.
I've got to say, his sort of brazen stuff now on a daily, sometimes minute-by-minute basis on X with the swastikas, the Nazis, and so on.
I just find it utterly repellent.
Has anything he's been doing in the last two, three weeks changed your mind about what's going on here with him?
Okay, so first I just want to say that I definitely told your producers that I didn't want to speak about Ye, but it's totally fine if you want to ask me the question.
Oh, sorry, I didn't know.
That wasn't communicated to me, but if you don't mind, I'd just be curious about your view.
Yeah, sure.
So my view has been pretty consistent in that when you have a real relationship with someone, you shouldn't be lashing them in the public for anything.
There's something about the entire world having commentary about Kanye when he tweets and that exact same part of the world telling us that we have to remain mum when Bibi Netanyahu literally goes DEF CON 3, but Kanye tweets something about DEF CON 3 that just makes me uncomfortable and feels really disingenuous.
And like I said, when you have an actual relationship with someone, if you have anything to say to them, you should say that to that person directly.
And so I'm just not going to partake in this sort of like Judas culture of stabbing people in the front when you have a real relationship with them.
And I've maintained that consistently and I'm not going to break that code today.
I mean, some would say, I mean, look, I just want to play this clip and get your response to this.
I mean, this is him doing, you know, Klukat's Klan imagery with swastikas and so on.
It's so brazen.
It's so taunting.
And you talk about people who are directly attacking people.
He's directly attacking Jewish people when he does this and making them feel extremely uncomfortable, extremely threatened by this, because he's got 32 million people following him on X alone.
You know, his social media firepower to galvanize hate against the Jewish people is being laid bare, isn't it, in real time?
Just a question for you.
When you saw the Klansman hoodie, why did you say taunting against Jewish people when didn't it matter?
How the swastikas are black people.
Yeah, but it's just interesting that of the two things, you chose to lean into Jewish people and not to speak about what the Klansmanhood represents.
Well, both.
Let's say both.
I mean, they're both the Nazis and the Klukats Klan were both despicable people who targeted certain members of society and wanted to cause them enormous harm, if not kill them.
And that's why I'm interested in that.
Like when I saw the image, I thought you were going to say something about Black America and maybe speak about the fact that Kanye is black, but you just instantly went to accusing or speaking about how Jewish people felt about it.
I think that's interesting.
I just find that response to be interesting.
He's literally selling swastikas.
Yeah, Pierce, if you'd like to provide commentary on...
Yeah, if you want to provide commentary on Ye, I have maintained I'm not going to participate in Judas culture.
I don't believe in the emphasis that has been placed on me, knowing that I have a personal relationship with him, to throw him under the bus publicly.
It's not the person that I am spiritually, and I'm just not going to partake in it.
And I've not moved on that one inch.
In fact, as time goes by, I feel stronger and stronger that I should not participate in that culture because there seems to be something sadistic about the entire world condemning someone and then an individual saying, well, I need you to do it, Candace, because you have a personal relationship with him.
It's just, you know what, we're going to move on to the other one.
I wasn't even aware you didn't want to do it.
It was a big person in the entire world that will come onto your platform and say something about yay.
You know, honestly, it's not like we're going to be able to do that.
I just want to communicate to you.
No, no, Candace, I've got loads of things I want to talk to you about.
It's not all about yay by any means.
I just know you know him and I know him a bit and I'm horrified by what I'm seeing.
And I just think, I mean, I think it raises a lot of issues, one of which is just on a wider point, whether anyone who's got that kind of following should be able to be so brazenly anti-Semitic, putting swastikas on, saying he's a Nazi and so on, whether anyone should be allowed to do that, actually, because by X's own rules, he breaks almost every rule they have.
Most people would be suspended a long time ago.
Well, X allows pornography.
So.
Well, they don't.
They actually took him down last time for posting pornography, legal pornography, which was ironic.
There is pornography allowed on X.
It's been something that we've been speaking out about and wondering why they allowed pornography.
And it only becomes a discussion when Kanye shares the pornography, but we've been speaking about that for, I mean, since Elon Musk took it over, I think it's ridiculous that pornography is allowed.
But we don't need to get into a discussion about X's policies and things of that nature because I've already given you my response on yay.
It's just not a relationship that I'm going to burn publicly because people say this and I respect your right to do that.
I do.
Entirely down to you.
You don't have to comment.
I only asked you because, like me, you pretty well comment on everything else and normally have very strident views.
And I'd actually tell you what, I'd love to know privately what you think.
Why don't we leave it at that?
I'll call you afterwards and let me know.
That's fine.
I'd actually be really genuinely fascinated.
Let's turn to Harvey Weinstein.
Again, somebody else I knew for a long time, disgraced, shamed, imprisoned, and so on.
You've launched a big public defense of him.
Why?
It was actually, I got in touch with him kind of quite accidentally.
There was a mutual party who felt that I was the only person, despite me and him having very varying views, very strongly varying views.
He's on the left.
Obviously, I'm on the right, that I was the only person that would look at his case fairly because I have been a vocal critic of the Me Too movement.
And to be completely honest, before he and I got on the phone, I believed he was guilty because, well, he was found guilty.
And also because the media had even done a number on me in terms of there were just so many allegations, it was difficult to sift through or to not reasonably assume that something had to be true.
And so I took a look at the case and was positively shocked at what I discovered.
I believe Harvey Weinstein was wrongly convicted.
And the reason that he is sitting in prison is because of the media.
It was a trial by media and not a trial based on the facts.
Now, I want to be very clear here.
This does not mean that I think Harvey Weinstein is an upstanding citizen or a moral person.
He was completely immoral.
That's why he found himself in this circumstance.
He was cheating on his wife and by my regard, therefore cheating on his children.
But that's not, you don't put somebody away for rape because you think that they're immoral or that they abuse their power.
Hollywood has operated the same way for a very long time.
It is a world in which people will prostitute themselves.
Women will prostitute themselves for parts for a chance at becoming famous.
And it is rightfully, New York just overturned the decision and is sending it back down to the lower courts because they had the appellate Georgia's, the appellate judge's pardon, acknowledge the fact that it was essentially a kangaroo court.
They were convicting him on character and not based on any of the facts.
I mean, over 90 other women came forward to say or to make allegations of sexually criminal behavior against him.
Does that not give you pause for thought, the sheer volume of people all with similar stories?
That is exactly why I believed it, because there were so many women.
And then I hadn't even, and I'm sure you didn't realize who actually put him away, how many of those women put him away.
And the answer is three.
So it went from 90 accusations, which the media kept hammering into our minds.
And it came down to the testimony of three women who had consensual sex with him after their alleged rapes, according to their very own testimonies.
The two women in New York in particular had consensual relations with him thereafter.
And when you see the email sent to him, the text messages sent to him asking for parts, asking for, you know, tickets here, tickets there.
One woman in particular, one woman in particular brought her mom to meet him.
It just, your brain kind of comes undone and you recognize, wow, this, what happened here was wrong.
And like I said, it doesn't condone his behavior.
It doesn't condone recognizing your power in Hollywood and recognizing that women will sleep with you simply because they think that you're a conduit to their success.
But wrong is wrong.
And Harvey and I don't have to agree on politics or agree on moral character or agree on theology in order for me to say that he was wrongfully, in my belief, wrongfully convicted and should be freed.
Rabbi Shmuley's Pure Beliefs00:11:29
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The war in Gaza is barreling towards a grim anniversary.
This deadly year, sparked by a terrorist atrocity and met with an often merciless response, has changed the way that many people think about an historic dispute.
Never in our lifetimes has there been such active debate about Israel's role in the modern world and whether the United States and its allies should back it.
Protests and counter-protests have brought anti-Semitism to the fore, along with a charge that sometimes insulates Israel from criticism.
My next two guests have vivid opinions on these big issues and have had a very public feud.
We're bringing them together for what we intend, I hope, to be a proper debate.
The topics will be the Israel and mass war, anti-Semitism in public life, American involvement in Israel, and Israeli involvement in the United States.
And we'll even talk about Michael Jackson, who is relevant to this debate.
Both guests will get roughly equal speaking time and a chance to question each other.
Speaking of the other guests, it's not encouraged, ad hominem attacks, are strongly discouraged.
But knowing these two as I do, I can make no promises.
Returning to Uncensored, host of the Candice podcast, Candice Owens, and the author of The Israel Warrior and the Michael Jackson Tapes, Rabbi Shmooley.
So welcome to both of you.
First of all, it's great you're doing this.
You've had a public feud for a couple of years now.
You've torn into each other in various forums.
This is your chance to take each other on.
And at the center of this, as I said in the intro there, is a very serious global story, which is the Israel-Hamas war and all the complexities that come away from that.
I want to give you both the chance to make an opening statement.
So Rabbi Smooley, you won the toss.
We didn't really actually toss, but you both agreed you could do this.
You go first.
Your opening remarks.
Thank you, Pierce, for having me.
And Candace, thank you for debating me.
I have spent my life bringing together the black and Jewish communities, emphasizing that we share not only a history of shared persecution, but of spiritual promise.
Today we debate an American tragedy, a woman of unique eloquence who has abused that eloquence to become simultaneously the foremost anti-black rhetorician in all of the United States and the foremost anti-Semite in America.
The statements that Candace has made against her own community, that they cry wolf and constantly say that they're victims of racism.
Her attacks on George Floyd, a man who was suffocated to death for a $20 counterfeit note saying that he was a horrible human being.
A woman who went up in front of CPAC and said, I was never a slave in America, as if that's the only form of discrimination, is what has led her community to call her not Candace, but Clandis.
The first ever female black woman who appears in her rhetoric against blacks, calling LeBron James dumb and stupid, an icon to the black community, as Clandis.
Simultaneously, you have the Jewish community beginning to call her not Candace Owens, but Candace Ovens, because her goblin-style rhetoric against Jews, that Jews are nearly all pedophiles.
The State of Israel will set up a Theodore Herzl, a pedophile, as a haven for pedophiles.
That Judaism is a demonic, satanic cult that only protects pedophiles.
And by the way, her absolute obsession with Jewish sexuality and Jewish genitalia, the first lady of France, Brigitte Macron's genitalia, is disturbing.
It's one of the reasons I think she hates Sigmund Freud so much, because she's a Freudian field dream in terms of his arguments that the greater the sexual suppression and repression, the greater we see violence.
But when you say that the Jews killed JFK because he was about to ostracize Israel, when you invent all of these fabrications out of whole cloth, what is the result?
The result is the demonization of Jews that leads to violence.
Pierce, just one week ago, two days after Candace falsely accused me, as she has for two years, of being a murderer, of threatening to kill her, something for which she will face legal action because you cannot malign a rabbi and his daughter as murderers.
Two days later, I was swatted in my house where five police cars had to break into my house because Mayor Michael Wilds of Anglewood, New Jersey received an email, arguably from one of Candace's followers after she said essentially what Henry II says, who will rid me of this troublesome priest, which leads directly to the murder of Thomas Beckett, who today is a Catholic saint, of course.
We were swatted and the FBI is now investigating Candace's rhetoric.
They're investigating.
Rabbi Smooley, I'm interrupting.
Wait, just one final three points.
One final point.
So, Candace, we'll get exactly the same amount of time.
It's up to you, but it's an opening statement, right?
And what I would say...
Yeah, may I just say finally, if I may.
Well, if it's quick.
The biggest issue I have with Candace, to be honest, is that she claims to be a Christian.
Candace, didn't Jesus say you're supposed to love your enemies?
Is the love you show me that you call me filth twice on the last show that you did with Pierce?
A piece of filth?
You're supposed to love your own.
Is that turning the other cheek?
And Pierce, you're an English gentleman.
I've known you for many years.
You allowed her to say that without even a piece of filth.
When Jesus said that you're supposed to turn the other cheek, where have you ever turned the other cheek?
When Jesus said that the meek shall inherit the earth, the arrogance, the nonstop attack against Jews, the demonization.
If you are a Christian, then I am the second coming of Christ.
Okay, that's four minutes you've spoken to.
Out of fairness, Candace, if you want to use four minutes to respond, you can.
All I would note, Rabbi Shmuly, is you've spent four minutes personally attacking Candace Owens.
I set this up as a debate about what is happening with the Israel-Hamas war, anti-Semitism, and so on and so on.
You've turned it all completely, immediately, into an ad hominem onslaught against Candace.
How could you possibly say that?
You are speaking to a Jesus.
The Jews are a ring of demonic pedophiles, and you're saying that I have no right to defend my people.
You know, Pierce, you have to stop this once and for all.
There was nothing ad hominem at all.
All right.
When Candace says that the black community is a bunch of cry babies, everything I said, I could not disagree with it.
Candace will now get the same amount of time if you wanted, Candace, to respond.
Thank you, Pierce.
And I don't think I really do need to respond to the ad hominem attacks.
I think actually one of the things that plausibly unites people across all religions, Muslims, Jews, Christians, is that we all recognize that Rabbi Shmueli is unhinged.
He's just mentally, in my view, unwell.
And I don't say that as an attack.
I say that as just a reality because I've never seen someone just make things up out of thin air that were never said.
And trying to screen that as a defense of black people, the black people will never accept Rabbi Shmuly after Michael Jackson, put him on a list of people who he felt were ruining his life.
So you can stop your pleas with Black America.
They won't work.
Now, going back to the context of what you've asked us to speak about today, you know, I think one of the things that the world is recognizing and what we've always recognized is that there are radical fringe sects that break out within every single religion amongst every race.
There's white supremacy, there's black supremacy, there's radical Islam.
There are all of these Christ cults around the world.
And I think right now it's important for people to understand that radical Judaism is also a thing.
And you just, you're watching an example of it right now on your screen.
The person sitting across from me or sitting next to me, I guess, posted on his Facebook page in 2016 a tribute to someone who he said was his mentor.
That was Rabbi Menekem Sneerson.
He said he was his mentor and his friend.
Now, for those of you who are not familiar with Rabbi Schneerson, there were some Jews who believed that he was and is the Messiah.
So rejecting Christ, but believing that that rabbi was his Messiah.
Now, you may remember in the news recently, there was this radicalized faction of the Lubavitch Orthodox community in Brooklyn that were digging tunnels in Brooklyn and hurling benches at police officers.
Well, and by the way, this is per the times of Israel.
That faction of individuals are followers of Rabbi Schneerson.
So again, you have Rabbi Shmuly who believes that that's his mentor.
They believe that he was the Messiah.
What is it?
It becomes important to understand.
What did Rabbi Schneerson preach?
Well, he preached Jewish supremacism, the hatred of all non-Jews.
And you don't have to take my word for it, because if I said it, they would say that's anti-Semitism.
You should instead take the word of the two Jewish professors who translated his work.
Those authors' names were Israel Shahak and Norton Mesvinsky.
And their book was entitled Jewish Fundamentalism in Israel.
From that book, we learned that Shmuly's mentor, Schneerson, describes the difference between a Jew and a non-Jew.
And he says, quote, thus we do not have a case of profound change in which a person is merely on a superior level.
The body of a Jewish person is of totally different quality from the body of all nations of the world.
And he talks about the substance of the Jewish body versus the substance of non-Jews, saying that the inner quality, quote, is so different and so great that the body should be considered completely different species.
So that is a belief.
And you can go through his speeches and you will see that he continually talks about how non-Jews should be treated.
And that, again, we are a different species.
This is what Rabbi Shmuley believes in.
We have to come to terms with the fact that there are Jewish radicals and it's incumbent upon the Jewish community to call them out.
I'm glad that you brought up my rhetoric about Black Lives Matter, the organization, and when which was basically allowing black criminals to take to the street to burn down, to loot, and to riot in the name of racism, because it shows that I'm on equal footing here.
That across the board, I do not support supremacism, whether it's coming from my community or whether or not it is coming from yours.
And I think the entire world is now paying attention and wondering what is going on in Israel.
Nationalism vs Globalist Lies00:09:27
What is this government?
Is this a radical fringe government?
And many people are concluding that the answer to that question is yes.
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Candice, why is it, do you think, that so many people in the Jewish community believe that you are anti-Semitic?
I think that's actually a very good question.
And just to go back, I'm going to answer your question.
I just want to make sure people are recognizing because he said a lot of stuff there.
He's not able to counter.
He essentially tried to hold me to looking up the sources.
We've now found the sources, and it's the BBC, it's the New York Times, and it is the Euromed Human Rights Committee.
We have found no sources and we'll fairly check it out.
And then you look at the 2008-100 tons of bombs were dropped on Gaza.
And per the BBC, the British aircraft dropped 4,000 tons of bombs on Dresden.
So just for clarity, that's a blood libel on this.
Please don't cut me off.
I do not have not cut you off.
He called that a blood libel because that is a strategy, which is meant to just distract people from the truth or looking into it.
So you say everything you say is a blood libel.
Now, to answer your question, Piers, I think that's a very good question.
And the answer for that is because the media as an entity has been basically mining Jewish pain, the history of their pain by taking people out of context and presenting things that are as a fact that is simply untrue, things that I've never said.
We are watching right now, and that's why I'm grateful for you to provide this opportunity.
You are watching Rabbi Shmuly do this live, right?
When we talk about yellow journalism and people that take things out of context and try to present it to people with a bunch of hysteria and go, oh my gosh, Candace said this.
Oh my gosh, Candace is a Holocaust denier.
Oh my gosh, he's called me all of these names.
And he doesn't have a single fact in there.
They just know that if they say those things, it's a trigger.
It is reminiscent of exactly what was done for Black Americans for a very long time.
They have now since changed their perspective on me.
But for a long time, they thought that I legitimately hated being black and hated the color of my skin because I stood against Black Lives Matter as an organization and I stood against what Black Lives Matter was doing.
And the media made them hysterical.
She's a black person who doesn't even want to be black, and she's a black white supremacist.
They bought that narrative because when the media lies, a lot of people accept that what they're reading is true.
But of course, I didn't hate black Americans.
I didn't hate anything other than BLM abusing and mining black pain, going back and saying, well, it's going to be just like slavery to distract people from what was ultimately just a fraudulent organization that was actually going to bring more harms to black Americans in the end.
And that's how I feel about the state of Israel and everything they're doing.
Ultimately, I believe it's going to yield more anti-Semitism.
It's going to make people associate what Bibi Net and Yahoo is doing to all Jews around the world.
And so I think it's important for them to realize it's the same exact tactics of manipulation, the same exact name-calling and ad hominem attacks that is not based in fact and not based in reality, but based in not wanting to answer the fair critiques that people have about what Israel is doing.
But that's a very good question.
Okay, Rabbi Schmooli, I mean, the simplicity to that argument, I think, is that too often I do see people immediately branded anti-Semitic if they dare to criticize the Israeli government.
But there's a very big difference between criticizing a government and its actions and a whole people, which is what anti-Semitism is.
And do you accept that?
The beauty, the beauty of Israel is its democracy.
You just said the hundreds of thousands of people are marching against Benjamin Netanyahu.
I welcome those protests.
It shows that even during war, listen, in 1864, the United States had a presidential election.
Some people wanted to cancel it, saying that how could you elect Lincoln when there's a civil war?
And they still had the election.
Israel's the same.
Let's just go through Candace Owens' history of anti-Semitism.
That is utterly unconnected with the people.
I will let you do that.
I will let you do that.
And she can respond.
But on my specific point, though, do you accept that it's perfectly possible, and indeed it should be in a robust democratic society, a central tenet of this?
That Israel's government and its prime minister should be criticized by anyone who chooses to criticize us without the people who criticize us being branded anti-Semitic.
Of course, of course.
I am a very close friend of Netanyahu, and I criticize him allowing Qatar.
Qatar is one of the most duplicitous, evil governments in the world.
They house all of the leaders, the billionaire leaders of Hamas.
I criticize Benjamin Netanyahu, my dear friend, for allowing money to go into Hamas in the belief that they could be bought off.
I criticize the Israeli government for not recognizing the Armenian genocide, something that Candace Owen blames the Jews.
She actually says that Kemal Atatürk was led by the Jews to the Armenian genocide.
By the way, the Armenian genocide took place under the Ottoman Turks, not Kemal Autaturk.
She has no sense of history, and she just fabricates conversations.
Let's just split it a moment.
Okay, I'm a specific person.
Wait, wait, wait, one second.
Let's just go through.
Let's speak with her history of anti-Semitism, please.
Yes, you said you have specifics of Candace Owens being anti-Semitic.
Yes, I will.
I will.
Yes.
Being anti-Semitic.
What are those examples?
Okay.
Okay.
You see, the Jewish community did not want Candace Owens to be anti-Semitic.
This is actually a tragedy that a woman gifted by God with such eloquence has decided to become a purveyor of hate.
And when she said in 2018 that she has no issue with Hitler because he was a nationalist, but then he wanted to go beyond her borders, even then we didn't call her an anti-Semit.
That's an absurd thing to say that you had no issue with Hitler.
Hitler, even domestically by then, had enacted all the Nuremberg laws.
There was already the November 9th, 1938 post-COVID-19.
Hang on, hang on, hang on.
Just to clarify, let's take these one at a time.
What do you believe she said about Adolf Hitler in the clip you're talking about?
She said that there was no issue with Hitler except for the fact that he went beyond his borders if he was a marriage.
Let me play the clip.
But even called her.
In the interest of fairness, I'm going to play the clip so that viewers who've never heard it can hear what actually got said.
Yeah, I agree.
I actually don't have any problems at all with the word nationalism.
I think that it gets the definition gets poisoned by elitists that actually want globalism.
Globalism is what I don't want.
So when you think about whenever we say nationalism, the first thing people think about, at least in America, is Hitler.
You know, he was a national socialist.
But if Hitler just wanted to make Germany great and have things run well, okay, fine.
The problem is that he wanted, he had dreams outside of Germany.
He wanted to globalize.
He wanted everybody to be German, everybody to be speaking German, everybody to look a different way.
That's not, to me, that's not nationalism.
So in thinking about how we could go bad down the line, I don't really, I don't really have an issue with nationalism.
I really don't.
I think that it's okay.
It's important to retain your country's identity and to make sure that what's happening here, which I think is incredibly worrisome in terms of just the decrease in the birth rate that we're seeing in the UK, is what you kind of want to avoid.
So I'm not, I don't have anything problem.
I have no problems with nationalism.
It's globalism that I try to avoid.
So, Candace, on that specific point, would you say that Rabbi Schmooli has categorized it correctly or not?
He's just openly lying, and that's why he didn't want you to play the clip.
I was in the UK, by the way.
I was at the Oriol Mobile Club.
There were Jewish journalists in the room, and nothing was written about it until months later when somebody was working on a hit piece about me.
I was answering a question when they were saying, how can we just embrace the word nationalism when it sort of has this dirty feel?
And I was just essentially saying that I actually don't have an issue with nationalism.
I think it's totally fine to be a British nationalist, to be an American nationalist.
And the problem is that it's wrongly attributed that word.
I think people instantly associate it with Adolf Hitler.
And I would argue that he wasn't actually a nationalist because obviously he invaded Poland and he went beyond German borders.
I didn't even mention Jewish people.
I didn't mention the Holocaust.
And suddenly you have people like Rabbi Schmuly who are pretending that I got up there and I defended Adolf Hitler.
It's just this isn't what we just watched.
Please don't cut me off.
Please do not cut me off.
A huge issue that you have right now is this dishonesty.
If you really want to understand why Israel is facing a PR crisis, why Zionism right now to people doesn't feel good and they don't want to associate themselves with it, is because it seems like it takes such, so many lies to maintain.
There's no reason to misrepresent what I said and to tell people that I support Adolf Hitler, other than the fact that you want people to hate me.
And so I'm deeply appreciative ago.
Mengele and Nazi Experiments00:04:50
Well, you may respond to what she just said to that clip.
Now you've watched it.
Okay.
Okay.
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You know, she keeps on saying lying.
I never said you shouldn't play the clip.
I'm actually happy you did.
She said if Hitler had only focused on domestic policy, she would have had no issue with him.
His domestic policy was to the Kristallnacht burn down 3,000 synagogues in a single night domestically.
That was not in Poland.
That was not in Czechoslovakia.
His domestic policy was the 1934 Nuremberg laws.
His domestic policy was a complete dictatorship where he destroyed the Bundestag and subjected and created Dachau under Himmler.
So those are the historical facts.
But what I said was, even then, the Jewish community gave her a pass.
She explained it.
One mistake, people make mistakes.
Here's the history of anti-Semitism.
She's not going to be barred from going into Australia because of anything she said about Israel.
That is a fabrication.
She's going to be barred.
Australia is my wife's country, born in Sydney.
She's going to be barred to go to Australia because she's a Holocaust denier, because a hundred-year-old victim of Josef Mengele, the angel of death's experiments, came forward and said, you are going to traumatize me all over again.
She actually said that Mengele's experiments, the fourth worst person in Nazi Germany after Hitler, Himmler, Goebbels, Mengele, it was a fabrication.
She's an out and out Holocaust denier.
And Australia, God bless them, took in so many survivors after the war, including my wife's family from Slovakia.
Let me ask you a question.
Let me ask Candace.
Wait, wait, wait.
She said that the Mengele experiments were false.
Let me ask Candace Owens now two things.
One, are you a Holocaust denier or do you accept that six million Jews were killed by the Nazis in the Holocaust?
And secondly, do you believe that Joseph Mengele did what he is reported to have done and has been since World War II ended?
Thank you for those questions.
No, absolutely.
I am not a Holocaust denier.
This is, again, another fabrication based off of a monologue that I did in which I was putting pressure on the American government to explain why it is a fact that we learned all of these things about the horrific things that Nazi scientists did.
And to be clear, Piers, I did not even mention Joseph Mengele's name in this skit at all.
I spoke about all the things that we learned that we were told over the years, some of which ended up being rebutted.
And there were tons of, that part doesn't matter.
The point is, the end conclusion of that is that the CIA, via an operation known as Operation Paperclip, took the Nazi scientists and brought them to America, where they continued horrific experiments on Americans.
That's the full context of that.
So they've pulled out a statement, one sentence where I said, we've heard all of these sorts of things that they've done, cut people in half, sewed them back together.
And I said, that sounds like a ridiculous waste of time.
And when you pull that clip up by itself, it sounds like I'm just diminishing all of these stories when in reality I'm saying, let's take everything at face value.
Let's say everything we've ever heard was true.
Why on earth would the American government acquiesce to bringing these scientists over to America?
And as a fact, Dr. Mengele was not one of the scientists which was brought over to America.
So just to be clear.
Hang on, I'll come to you, Rabbi Schmurli.
To be clear, you accept the Nazis murdered six million Jews in the Holocaust.
Yeah, I have never once in any of my appearances denied the Holocaust atrocities.
Okay.
Every.
And you accept that Joseph Mengele was a despicable man who perpetrated horrendous crimes, including experimenting with Jewish people when they were still alive.
All of the scientists, the Nazi experiments that were done were horrific.
And that's why I was saying they were so horrific that it makes you go, why on earth would the American government in this clandestine operation bring over the Nazi scientists who then became a part of our CIA and continued experiments onto America through to the 60s and the 70s.
Let me ask Rabbi Schmule.
And that's why these experiments were that was done throughout the Korean War.
October 7th Corruption Trials00:14:03
Rabbi Schmurli, your response.
And I read it.
After this debate, we will post every single clip.
That was a complete and utter fabrication.
What she said was that she doubts that any of this happened because it was, as she just said, a waste of time.
The whole Holocaust was a waste of time.
Hitler had no winter equipment for his soldiers in Stalingrad under General Paulus in 1942 because the boxcars were taking Jews to Auschwitz.
You see, that is what hatred is, Candace.
It's where you hate so much that it becomes self-destructive.
It's what's happening to you.
You're a very gifted, eloquent broadcaster.
You are self-destructing before America's eyes because you have some issue with the Jews, not with Israel.
So let me continue.
You actually said that Theodore Herzl was a Frankist.
By the way, when you attack Frankis as a bunch of Jewish pedophiles, you forget to mention they all became part of your religion.
They all converted in 1757 to Catholicism.
You always omit that.
But you said that Theodore Herzl was a Frankist and you said he set up the state of Israel as a refuge for pedophiles.
This is before Gaza.
This is before Rafah.
As a refuge for Jewish pedophiles, you always refer to Jews as pedophiles.
It's the main word you use about Jews.
And every historian knows that what began in Norwich in 1099 with the first blood libel where the Jews were falsely accused of taking a Christian child and drinking his blood, you actually believe that.
You said that Christian bodies, this is before Rafah, this is before Israel, that Christian bodies were found all over Europe.
And when you speak about pedophilia, you know, it's funny, you just converted to Catholicism.
In 2002, Pope John Paul II, a pope that you would probably like, he was very conservative.
He was a great man, great friend of the Jewish community, recognized the state of Israel, sent an ambassador in 1994.
He apologized very frail to the world Catholic community, saying that at least 2% of all Catholic priests were pedophiles.
Later, Pope Benedict XVI apologized again.
I met Pope Benedict, a great man, great friend of the Jewish community.
He said it was 4%.
Then Pope Francis raised it probably even higher, 6%.
We know a million people, almost a million people, children in France alone, according to the French government, were abused by Catholic priests.
But you've never once condemned Catholic pedophilia.
Everyone knows it was the biggest scandal in the world.
Only the Jews are pedophiles.
Is that anti-Semitism?
Okay, let me ask Candace: do you condemn pedophiles in the Catholic Church, Christian paedophiles?
Yeah, he's just lying again.
Actually, on my show, I spoke extensively about Frankism, and I told people that there was a conversion into the Catholic faith.
And one of the things that I believe is that all of the Abrahamic religions have been infiltrated by Satanists, and that is what I've said.
So they've decided to pull apart only the piece where I'm talking about Judaism and not where I'm speaking about all of the faiths having been infiltrated.
And speaking about how it's important for everyone to recognize this so that you can realize that there is this sort of satanic cult that's operating within all of the faiths.
And I think that they use Christians and they use Jews and Muslims as well.
I've said that on my show multiple times.
So he's just absolutely lying about that.
I think the difference here is that you could never, you'd be hard pressed to find a Catholic that would in any capacity defend pedophilia.
The charges of anti-Semitism are kind of going through the exact same routine that the charges of racism did back with BLM.
Like first, people took it very seriously.
Like if I said, Piers, you're a white supremacist, you would have just been astonished because who wants to be called a white supremacist?
But then you started to realize this was about power and this was about control and this was about trying to manipulate people to take your perspective.
And post-October 7th, you know, you had a, what I refer to them as like the Likud party media in America.
I count the New York Post among them, who just insisted that unless you agreed with everything that Bibi Net and Yahoo was doing and towed a very specific line, they were going to smear and libel you and you ruin your life.
And, you know, a lot of people, I think, shirked at that and kind of wanted to keep their head low.
I didn't play that game with my own community.
I was willing to take all of the figurative bullets with black America calling me a race traitor, a self-hating black person, whatever it was.
I don't view Jewish people to be some exception where you're allowed to now call everybody anti-Semites because you can't actually debate what Bibi Netanyahu is doing and why so many people around the world are not comfortable with it.
So yes, they can award that all they want.
People are mocking it.
It's now become like cartoonish.
And they have unfortunately or fortunately completely removed the power from that term.
What is your view of Jewish people, of Judaism for the record?
What's your view?
My view is that Judaism is a faith, Israel is a state, it is not above critique, and that what Bibi Net and Yahoo has done to the Palestinians since October 7th is a Holocaust.
It is a Holocaust that is being committed on Palestinian children and women.
And I'm not going to quiet my perspective on that, you know, to kowtow to whatever the prevailing narrative is at the New York Post.
I had Dan Bulzerian on uncensored recently.
I got to say, it took a pretty shocking turn, the interview.
I hadn't fully factored in just how, in my opinion, after talking to him, brazenly anti-Semitic he is.
And this included this clip here.
Do you not understand why Jewish people might feel a sense of victimhood, given that 6 million of them were killed in World War II by a genocidal monster in the Holocaust?
Do you not understand why that might make Jewish people feel that, yes, they have indeed been victims?
Yeah, I mean, that figure has been revised.
They said that it was 4 million that died in Auschwitz, and then they said it was down to a million.
So they've revised the figure.
Well, how many people?
How many people do you think were killed in the Holocaust?
171,000 that died in Auschwitz.
How many do you think were killed in the Holocaust?
I don't know, but I would bet my entire net worth that it was under 6 million.
The evidence all says that it was less than 6 million.
I mean, just the mathematics don't work.
Like, you can't cremate that many bodies.
I'm sorry, but I just find that unbelievably offensive.
And I'm not even Jewish.
You see, this is where I'm like you.
I think there's been a weaponization of all these things.
Whether you're transphobic, you're racist, you're sexist, you're anti-Semitic, whatever it may be, you're Islamophobic.
I mean, people just spray this stuff around all the time to the extent where it does become meaningless.
And actually, people who are genuinely are those things, they get caught up in the wash and almost protected by the kind of wash of stuff.
But when you hear someone like Dan Bulzerian, what do you feel about someone like him?
Yeah, so I actually didn't watch that interview, so I haven't seen it in its full context.
And I try never to weigh in on clips because there'll be something I'm missing and then everybody screams at me.
But what I will say is this.
The larger discussion that's happening right now is whether or not having survived a Holocaust gives you the permission to commit a Holocaust.
And for whatever reason, people have been, what I would say, milking the Holocaust narrative in the same way that black Americans were milking the slavery narrative and essentially saying, like, we lived through this and we survived this.
And so now nobody can say that anything we do is wrong.
And that's the big issue today, is that we have so many people that will not recognize that it is totally feasible that a Jewish person, and I'm speaking here about Bibi Net and Yahoo, could do something as horrific as what was done to the Jews throughout World War II or throughout history.
But is that an accurate comparison?
And I'll tell you why I say that.
As we know, I mean, whatever Dan Bulzerian wants people to believe, six million Jews were killed in the Holocaust, another six million people were murdered by Hitler and the Nazis.
The numbers of people being killed in Gaza are, in my view, have gone way beyond what is acceptable as a response to October the 7th.
However, you're still talking about, at the moment, a death toll of under 50,000.
There's no comparison in the amount of dead people compared to the Holocaust.
Do you understand why?
But it is a Holocaust, what's happening?
Well, is it, though?
Yes.
So I think language is really important.
I think language is really important as well.
And that's the problem.
People say Holocaust, genocide.
I think what's happening is a Holocaust.
The burning bodies of the children that I'm seeing every day.
And we spoke about this a little bit on my show, but like, I have recognized that the ability to see this stuff every day has transformed my opinion.
Maybe the numbers wouldn't have gotten so high if people had spoken up when it was happening at the very beginning during World War II.
And so I want to use my platform to say that I believe that they are intentionally executing a Holocaust.
I think Bibi Netanyahu, there's tons of evidence, and obviously the Western media is not reporting on this, but the corruption trials that are going on with Bibi Netan and Yahoo pertaining to October 7th and him editing the transcripts and the prior knowledge that he knew is now becoming extremely pertinent.
It is a question as to whether or not he allowed the attacks to take place, essentially, to then be able to go in and to commit this Holocaust against the Palestinians.
Now, based on everything that I've looked into and stuff that I had not seen before, because the Western media doesn't cover it, Bibi Netanyahu caught off camera speaking about how he had no intention of following the Abraham Accords and how he was going to get around it.
He has, I believe, genocidal ambitions.
And that's enough.
We don't need to dispute, go backward or forward.
Do I think Bibi Netanyahu has genocidal ambitions against the Palestinians?
The answer is yes.
Do you think he's a war criminal?
Yes.
I believe he's a war criminal.
And I think that the issue is how much power he has, particularly in America.
And I want to make sure that I'm just crossing or I guess making that clear to people across the pond.
You know, in America, we have lobbying.
You guys don't have lobbying here.
And so this is why it might seem.
We do, but not to the same degree.
Yes, like APAC spent $100 million in our elections.
And what that means is that they're able to write fellowships.
They're able to pay journalists.
They're able to pay people to attack and take down people who speak against their initiatives.
And they are, APAC, I would say, is very much pro-Likud Party, pro-Bib Netan and Yahoo.
And this is why you have seen people like me being attacked in the way that they have been attacked for what I believe is just a human stance on what's happening to the Palestinians.
I don't care if you had flipped it, if it had not been Israelis, if it had been, you know, if it had been Christians doing this to Muslims, I would say the exact same thing based on the images that I've seen.
But there is a ton of evidence that Bibi Net and Yahoo allowed October 7th to take place, including the things that we found out, because I now read Heret's daily to...
You don't actually think he knew it was going to happen.
Well, let's just talk about the facts.
We don't have to speculate on that.
What we do know is that they did intercept the hostage plan before it took place, right?
The 250 hostages that came out in Horetz media.
We also know that Egypt gave them prior mourning, a warning that the attacks were going to take place.
Egypt said that they were being ignored.
That was a fact.
I've been to Israel.
Have you been to Israel?
We know it's the size of New Jersey.
We know that it takes 15 minutes to get from one end to the other.
And we know that every five feet, there's a person in your face holding a gun.
That attack went on for two hours without interruption.
I find that hard to believe.
And this gets to the, I guess you could say the nucleus of the corruption trial against him when now he's even arguing with the IDF minister who he fired, Yoav Galant, am I saying his last name correctly?
Where they're saying that some funny stuff happened on October 7th and they are explicitly accusing him of feeding lies to the Western media.
This is crucial, you know, and this could be the undoing of everything.
If we find out that he had prior knowledge, and we do know for a fact that he said that he intentionally wanted to take over Palestinian territory, you should find that clip and play it on the show because it's very significant when he asked the reporter to turn off the camera and then he starts speaking about his plans for the Palestinians.
This was years ago.
I think Bibi Net and Yahoo is a monster.
And I think the people that are still standing by him and supporting him, you know, I wouldn't want to have that on my conscience.
Let's turn to the Palestinians, who I think have been appallingly oppressed for many decades.
I've made no secret of that.
But what Hamas did on behalf of the Palestinian people was an utterly heinous terrorist attack.
Absolutely.
No question about it.
So my question would be, let's go back to October the 8th.
What should have been Israel's response to that, given the scale of it?
Well, first and foremost, there had to be a response.
And we know that the IDF is very capable of a surgical tactical response because they've done it over the years plenty of times in which they're able to take out terrorists.
Just watch them execute a beeper attack and hit out Hamas terrorists.
So this is a very important thing.
So I think it's a very relevant point because if they could do that to 3,000 Hezbollah terrorists, why couldn't they be as precise with Hamas?
Because they don't want to be.
They want to level it because they want to take it over.
And I believe, and you can see this, by the way, in the videos of the settlers dancing.
I mean, why do they have settlers already ready?
Doesn't that seem strange that this quickly you already have settlers that are going in and taking over the territory and you're hanging children's toys.
What should Israel have done though?
They should have just taken out the Hamas terrorists.
How do you do that when they're embedded amongst the people?
Well, listen, I'm not an IDF minister, but what I can say is going back to that beeper attack, it seems pretty precise.
And there have been many examples of them doing that in the past.
So I just don't buy the BS of like, you know, we actually just have to take down entire towers and buildings.
It doesn't even make sense.
I mean, I'm not an engineering major, but if you're telling me that there's a tunnel under everywhere, you only have to hit a tunnel at a couple of points to render it completely useless.
So the idea that they had to level the entire place plus go out into refugee camps doesn't make any sense.
Like I said, I think their goal, and as they do, they have all these policies mowing the lawn, you know, the way they kill a certain amount of Palestinians every year.
This is genocidal.
The aims here are genocidal.
Your father-in-law, very highly well-regarded man in this country, Lord Michael Farm, he said the Israeli defense forces were acting in a highly accountable way in an extremely complex and difficult environment.
We cannot forget that they have been forced to prosecute this war.
Obviously, a different interpretation of events there.
Have you discussed this with him?
Yeah, I mean, I try to separate my politics from his politics because I think it's unfair in any family to say, well, what does your mom think?
What does your cousin think?
What does my sister think?
My sister's a Democrat, you know.
Suspending Common Sense on Tunnels00:15:08
What I can say is I deeply respect him.
He's done a tremendous amount of work.
And I want to say this.
I was on the Zionist side.
Let's not forget this for years.
I worked for Prager University.
I worked for Daily Wire.
And so I was much more sympathetic to, I would say, the Zionist cause throughout my entire career.
But the difference is, and I think we spoke about this on my podcast generationally with the access of social media, being able to see these things every day versus the person who, as you described it, as you are still, because you're kind of a combo, who hears the thud of the newspaper and reads the newspaper and believes that, or, you know, this kind of becomes or colors their worldview, is very different.
Social media completely transformed my perspective on what's happening in Israel and Palestine.
Well, the massive lawsuit filed by the Macrons against Candace Owens is extraordinary and unprecedented on many levels.
This is a world leader suing a U.S. citizen for defamation in a U.S. court.
And the U.S. citizen is not a legacy news brand or a business mogul, but a successful podcaster, which is a measure of the shifting balance of power and media.
President Macron and his wife Brigitte accused Candace Owens of relentless worldwide bullying and a campaign of global humiliation over the repeated claim that Brigitte Macron is a man.
Macron has tried other methods of warning Candace to drop the issue, including, she says, asking President Trump to call her directly, which he did.
Well, so far, the main impact of the lawsuit has been to bring the Brigitte claims to an even bigger audience with prominent coverage everywhere from NBC to CNN and the BBC.
But many legal commentators reckon it's Candace Owens who ought to be worrying.
So is she?
Well, in a moment, I'll ask her.
But here's a reminder of how we got here.
I think you're a man.
I think it's beyond obvious that you were born a man.
You may want to split hairs about, well, I'm really a woman.
I feel on the inside, young woman.
An insulting wig that you're wearing.
It's ridiculous.
It's like you're laughing at us.
What I'm saying is that you were born a man and you will die a man.
It is very clear that Brigitte Trogneau existed.
It is very clear that she was, in fact, the sister of Jean-Michel Trogneau.
And I think that if I am guessing what took place here, Jean-Michel Trogneau took Brigitte Trogneau's identity at some point.
It's plausible that Brigitte Trogneau got sick, that the real Brigitte Tragneau got sick and perhaps had a dying wish to help her brother.
It's very early on, but I know that the process is supposed to be the pain that they want to drag this out.
I can't see them wanting to make it to discovery.
I just don't see that happening.
I think they'll fake kill Brigitte first.
Like they'll be like, oh, Brigitte passed away from stress because of what Candace did.
Well, the host of the Candace Show, Candice Owens, rejoins me now.
Candace, how are you?
I'm doing well.
How are you, Pierce?
I'm good.
Are you a woman?
I am, in fact, a woman, and I certainly would never sue someone to prove to the world that that is a fact.
I would probably be laughing.
Well, how can you prove to me you're a woman if I don't believe you?
I wouldn't have to.
You could do 18 hours of a show saying that I was living as a man for 30 years.
And the easiest thing for me to do, obviously, would be to just release pictures of me living, yearbooks, me on the cheerleading team, me pregnant, me with my children, raising my children.
Long before, if I ever got to the point where I thought that I needed to launch a lawsuit, I would probably just release a few photos if we're playing devil's advocate here.
But yeah, but ultimately, the easiest and quickest and best way to prove to me that you're a woman, and I'm not disputing that you're a woman.
I think you probably are.
I know you like to cast doubt on people's gender and sexuality.
So I'll just leave it floating, hoping that someone in the internet world grabs it and makes me tons of money with a, is Candace male or female?
But my point is this: you would be able to prove it to me by taking a simple sex test, right?
You would just say, here we are, here are the results, here's the sex test.
That's the best way to do this, right?
Actually, because we were in communication with her legal team long before she launched this website, we never asked for something that deep.
We literally gave her a list of 21 yes or no questions and asked her to just answer it on the record.
Also offered to fly over to Paris and interview Brigitte to get her side of the story before we even launched the first episode of the Becoming Brigitte series.
We were in communication and offered them a chance to rebut.
And they came back and said, we don't have to submit anything to prove that she is a woman and we don't want to answer your questions.
I've published those legal letters.
It's the reason why people that watch this series are just not believing the media when they pretend that this was like, oh, Candace wanted the blood of the first lady.
No, also, she's not suing.
Obviously, my series was based on a book entitled Becoming Brigitte that I did alongside the journalist who worked on this story for 10 years.
She's not suing him for defamation, but she is suing him for cyberbullying, which is really, if you read through the lawsuit against me, they are misrepresenting the things that I've said, taking them out of context, and pretty much smearing me in the process by pretending that we asked something extraordinary by saying we won't run this entire series if you can just show us a few photos of you living in this 30-year period.
Right.
I don't think photos can be easily manipulated.
We know that in the modern era.
I just think a sex test is definitive.
And the reason I'm asking you this is because I'm assuming, maybe I'm completely wrong.
Maybe I'm the deluded one here.
I don't think so.
But I'm assuming the only reason that Brigitte Macron and her husband, the president of France, are coming after you personally in American courts for defamation is that they know all they have to do to completely refute your entire conspiracy theory, which is what they say it is, is they just have to prove she's a woman.
If she's a woman and she's had three children miraculously, and I know I've seen your slightly torturous explanation for how she's managed to secretly have three kids and it wasn't her and she's a man.
But I've seen what you've said.
But ultimately, if she proves she's a woman, which is very easily provable, your whole case just implodes, doesn't it?
Well, Piers, it sounds like you're on our side.
It's been 10 years of the press saying that she was born a woman.
She sued people for cyberbullying.
She's sued people for speaking wrong about a document.
And yet the easiest path would have just been to simply release photos from 30 years of your life.
That is why this is unbelievable.
You're also, I think, largely misrepresenting my series.
You showed only clips of me discussing things after the lawsuit, but you didn't actually show anything from my series.
I don't think my series has gripped the entire world and caused a global leader to get on a plane and beg President Trump to shut me up because I'm just sitting there going, la la la, she looks like a woman in a wig.
No, it's a very serious subject, actually, Piers.
And if you watched even the first episode of the Becoming Brigitte series, you'll understand there's an entire network of pedo-criminals that are surrounding the Macrones.
They have had multiple scandals regarding pedophilia that have just engulfed his presidency.
And they are going after journalists.
And to be clear, these were mainstream journalists, not far-right podcasters or however it's being presented in the media today, that were simply trying to do a biography on the first lady.
They were supporters of her.
They were feminists.
They wanted to basically glorify her as the president's wife.
And they fell down a dark hole.
Condon Ash journalists, by the way, they fell on a dark hole because they felt suddenly that they weren't able to get any answers to their basic questions.
This was a mainstream issue in France.
And so I think you do yourself a disservice when you misrepresent it as if I'm just like sitting here going, la la la, she's wearing a wig.
You know, show the real excerpts from the Becoming Brigitte series.
It's incredibly compelling.
No, no, I saw that.
Even you could ignore that it's strange.
It's strange.
Like 30 years of, why would you go through all this effort when you could just drop photos of 30 years of your life where you allegedly had three children?
Where are your children?
Wouldn't your kids, wouldn't your children come out and defend you by just dropping pictures of their childhood with you?
Do you know her children won't do that?
And yet miraculously, those same children do.
Let me present my father.
All right, Candace, let me present another series of explanations for what's happened here.
I believe, and maybe I'm wrong.
All right.
So let me put that caveat at the start here.
Maybe you're right.
Okay.
I don't think you are.
I think you've been hoodwinked by these journalists who have gone on a complete fantasy trail of nonsense, trying to suggest Bridget Macrow never had three children, is a man.
It's all a lie.
And all the stuff that you've been doing on your channel and getting huge traffic for and making tons of money.
So if you're right, it's been a magnificent display of fearless journalism exposing a bombshell revelation about the First Lady of France.
I absolutely make no bones about that whatsoever.
But if you're wrong, as I believe, I genuinely believe you're wrong, then it leaves two avenues of explanation for why you would pursue this so aggressively.
One, you've been duped by these French journalists.
And secondly, worse, you kind of know it's not true, but you've ridden the wave of conspiracy theory about it because it's been so lucrative and it's gone around the world, like you've been saying.
And I think that is why they're suing you, because ultimately they know that you've been amplifying this massively more than the journalists had in France, getting way more global traction.
And it boils down to one simple fact.
Not photographs, as you keep trying to distract me with, but a sex test.
If on day one of this case, she just produces an actual sex test report that says she's a woman.
You're going to realize in that moment you've been completely duped.
What do you do then?
Piers, I'm not concerned about it because like I said, it's been about 10 years and Brigitte could have done that at any moment.
She's been in multiple lawsuits, involved in lawsuits, trying to shut journalists up.
I mean, you really are asking people to defy their common sense in this moment.
They know what has happened here.
They know that we went to Brigitte before we started this series to get Brigitte's side of this.
We were in contact with Brigitte's lawyers, the same ones that filed this case.
We asked simple yes or no questions.
We were not requiring a blood test.
We were asking, can you confirm this is you in this photo from the childhood that has been produced, ironically, by a woman who was charged for forging documents.
That woman's name is Mimi Marchand, and she was the first couple's PR person until she got in too much trouble for being a gangster and forging documents.
They refused and declined to answer those questions.
So like I said, you are asking people at home to suspend their common sense and to truly believe that rather than answering yes or no questions, rather than maybe at first going after the author of the book, Xavier Poussard, who was a Frenchman, for defamation, that would be the first thing.
Why don't you launch, at least at the same time, both of these suits?
I'm going to go after Candace and Xavier Poussard.
They are instead only going after me for defamation and not the person who sourced this entire quote unquote rumor.
There is, let me tell you, Piers, too many people who have watched this series, okay?
They're watching your show now and they know that you are not accurately presenting what has happened here.
But also, Piers, I think you are better than defending a pedo-criminal network, right?
And that's the biggest piece of the story is how many people around them have gone down, publicly admitted that they were pedophiles and were involved in this campaign in the beginning.
Even if you removed the allegation, which I believe from the bottom of my heart, like I said early on, I would risk, stake my entire career on the notion that she was actually born Jean-Michel Tragneau.
I believe that, right?
And I'm willing to go through this because it's an important story about government deception.
But even if you suspended that, you are right now defending a government that lied even about the beginning of their quote unquote love story, in which his parents removed him from school because of this creepy 40-year-old teacher who found a 14-year-old student to be sexy or attractive.
This is wrong.
Everything that's happening right now in France is wrong and it is perverted.
And as a mother, I will stand up to this and I am confident that we will emerge as the winners of this because in America, truth is an absolute defense against defamation and I am telling the truth.
Yeah, it is an absolute defense.
And I think there are perfectly legitimate questions about how their relationship started, the massive age gap and the rest of it.
I don't dispute that for a moment.
But, you know, as you say, in a defamation case, it ultimately comes down to truth mattering.
And it seems to me this whole case is going to be resolved in a very straightforward way because the obvious way to prove that you're wrong and have been systematically lying about it, if you've been doing it deliberately or otherwise, but telling a lie about her, which has obviously caused an enormous amount of hurt, is if they just produce evidence she's a woman.
Do you accept if they do that, your whole case disintegrates?
Of course it would disintegrate.
Well, first off, no, they would have to prove the actual malice standard in America, which would mean that we knowingly knew this.
We went to them with questions and they refused to answer.
That is very strange.
You're saying you're a victim now because this series came out and yet you had the power to stop the series when we came to you and said, we're not interested in telling any lies.
We actually want to get to the truth of this story.
And we asked very simple questions.
Did you ever live as a woman named Veronique?
I believe yes, Brigitte Macron, before taking on the identity of Brigitte Trogneau, lived as a woman named Veronique.
Why wouldn't you just answer that question and say no?
If it gave you so much grief that this rumor was out there, why not respond to that effectively in the 10-year period that you had the time to respond to it?
Okay, Brigitte is not a victim.
Far from that, I believe that Brigitte is actually somebody who has victimized Emmanuel Macron.
Emmanuel Macron is pathetic.
He's absolutely pathetic for letting this go on for so long.
You could easily dispel these rumors.
And like I said, we were asking for photos from a 30-year period of Brigitte's life.
We were not asking for blood.
We were asking for simple answer, yes or no.
Could you show us some photos of you raising your alleged children?
They failed to produce that and now are pretending that they're victims.
But they're under no obligation.
Candace.
Right, they're not.
But don't then complain and say you had to file a lawsuit.
They contacted us, Piers.
You're under no obligation.
We reach out to them.
They say they reached out to us first.
Hang on.
They say they made it crystal clear to you that all your claims were wrong, right?
That your basic premise that she's a man is wrong.
Brigitte Macron Is Not A Victim00:10:32
They said they told you that before.
You went ahead anyway.
You've carried on.
Even when they launched the lawsuit, you carried on saying the same stuff, right?
And it's a massive play on your part.
I admire your balls.
I mean, it's probably the wrong term to use, given the issue we're discussing.
But I do admire your balls, right?
Because you're going for it and you're doubling and trebling and quadrupling down.
But ultimately, your entire reputation is now directly linked, it seems to me, to whether Brigitte Macral is male or female.
And she proves she's a woman.
Where does that leave you?
If she was going to prove she was a woman, she would have done it over the last 10 years.
And like I said, they came to us first and we said we will not publish this series if you answer questions.
Okay.
So they were on the offense in that moment.
I didn't go to them and go, I deserve a response to this.
They had their lawyers email us speaking about this question.
And so I have been completely honest and transparent with my audience.
This matters to me because I'm a mother and there are too many people around them that have been charged with pedophilia, many who have admitted that they were pedophiles, not even just pedophiles, incestuous pedophiles, people that molested their children that are surrounding them.
Even the lawyers that they're dealing with are lawyers that defend pedophile and incest, preferring it to as happy incest when children are molested by their fathers.
That's their current lawyer who has attached himself to this case in France, Eric DuPont Moretti.
Everywhere you look, you see a story regarding incest and pedophilia that surrounds this couple.
I have presented that to the public.
And if you are going to pretend that they have not lied, Piers, a couple of weeks ago, when Brigitte smacked Emmanuel Macron on camera on the plane, the LAZA Palace answered and said that it was Russian propaganda and that it never happened.
They lie all the time.
It's very easy to lie in France where they have laws against speech and laws against cyberbullying and where journalists are afraid.
It's not so easy to lie in America.
I'm glad they brought this to my turf because now the French people are watching and cheering, knowing that this couple has lied to them from the very beginning.
They are due for an exposure.
And no, I do not believe that she is going to be able to now or willing to suddenly prove that she is a woman when she could have done that for the last eight years.
Okay, tell me about the phone call from Donald Trump in which he tried to get you to drop all this.
Yeah, certainly.
I received a phone call.
And to be clear, this was on the very same day that Emmanuel Macron visited the White House, ostensibly to discuss Ukraine and Russia.
I received a phone call at first from a third party saying that, and what I was told was that Emmanuel Macron, who was negotiating in good faith regarding an end to the Ukraine and Russia war, which would have required his signature on some EU stuff, was holding up stuff because he wanted Trump to speak to me to get me to stop talking about Brigitte Macron.
Again, very odd measure when we already said that we would stop speaking about Brigitte Macron.
If you had simply answered our questions, you could have stopped this.
And then the next day, or maybe it was within 48 hours, I received a phone call from Trump himself.
He obviously was not following the series.
He is not someone who I think watches a bunch of podcasting shows, but he said he was very confused when Emmanuel Macron took him to the side of a car and brought this up, asked him if he knew him, asked me to stop speaking about his wife, wanted him to get in touch with me to make that happen.
Again, that's an extraordinary effort for a state leader to get on a plane and speak to another state leader to shut up a podcaster in America when all you have to do to dispel the rumors is to tell the truth and answer the questions.
It's so easy.
It's so easy to do that.
I would never let it get to a point where I had to sue a podcaster in France.
Well, I told him in the short run while they were having those negotiations that I wouldn't say anything, which is why we didn't report on it for, I think it was about four months or five months later.
And that then afterwards, once they were done having those discussions, that I would reach out again and tell the person that I was going to speak about it publicly on my platform, because obviously I believe in free speech.
I mean, it's a fascinating situation that you've got a world leader coming after a podcaster.
That on its own is fascinating.
But it's because you have such a big following and because they believe, from my understanding, that unlike the French journalists where they were getting a small amount of traction, but not very much, it's only when you embraced this wholeheartedly and began to do this as a big series on your very popular show and channel that at that point they realized this was going around the world and they had to do something about it.
And they've launched this unprecedented act.
I just can't, I mean, look, again, I might be wrong, but I cannot imagine a scenario where the president and the first lady of France launch an action like this unless they are 100% certain that they are right, that she is a woman.
Okay, then can you say why?
You're saying it's because I'm big.
They've gone after small journalists, right?
They just lost in the upper courts against the initial journalists that brought this forward for defamation.
If you lost this on your home court, why would you take this lawsuit overseas?
It doesn't make any sense, right?
There had to have been some evidence presented, which they only presented an expired ID, which is completely ridiculous, an expired voting ID.
So you're telling me that you're not going to go after, you lose the journalist on your home court, but you take this now overseas because I'm a bigger journalist.
And to be clear, Piers, Xavier Poussard, they did launch a legal action against him on the same day they launched a legal action against me, okay?
But they're not suing him for defamation.
They are suing him for cyberbullying.
So I got all of my information sourced from Xavier Poussard's book.
I did a presentation on Xavier Poussard's book.
And yet you don't go after Xavier Poussard for defamation and he lives in France.
Why is that?
The answer to that question is because Xavier Poussard has been on the offense against them.
He won in the courts to have her Sake Croix, which is Sacred Heart, is where Brigitte Macron allegedly went to school in high school.
He won for them to release the, we would call it in America, a yearbook, which would have had a photo of Brigitte Macron in it.
The school is refusing to give it to him.
So the court would have to at first acknowledge the actions that this brave journalist brought against Brigitte Macron to expose this story before they would acknowledge her actions against him.
They are being very cunning in how they're dealing with this.
They launched this lawsuit because they failed in their first effamation efforts.
So they thought if they launched an even bigger lawsuit as a PR move, and to be clear, Piers, this is not all that they've done.
We have evidence that they hired a crisis PR team here in the United States before I launched my first episode of Becoming Brigitte.
When they were in communication with us back in January, they used a UK firm and they contacted that UK firm and had them go out to find a crisis PR team in America ahead of my series.
Why would you do that?
That's completely crazy.
You're in contact with us.
You have the power to stop this series.
Oh, if, as I believe, you are completely wrong and you end up losing this case, would you accept that everything you've been doing, if she establishes to the world she is a woman, that everything you've been doing would constitute, in that eventuality, a very cruel, vindictive campaign of bullying against a woman, challenging.
I would have never done this.
Like I said, I was not interested in being the crusader against this because I went to them and I said, if you answer these questions, we will not run the series.
I'm only interested in truth.
I only went after the story because I was shocked by the pedo-criminal network which surrounds them.
It's shocking.
Okay.
There are real children being harmed right now in Paris and there are real citizens that are being gaslit about these circumstances.
I don't know many people who can say, all of my homies are pedophiles, but it just keeps happening by accident.
This is a very big story in France.
And the people in France are behind me for a reason, Piers.
Like I said, this would not have been a globally impactful series if I was just up there flipping my hair saying, well, it kind of looks like her wig is bad.
We presented a lot of evidence.
Xavier put presented a lot of evidence.
And I believe in my heart of hearts that she is not only a groomer and a creep for the relationship that she began with Emmanuel Macron when he was just a student and 14 years old in that play, but also that they are liars that are leading this country, France, down the drain.
Truly, I believe it's in my heart that Brigitte Macron was born a man, was born a child, actually not a man, but born a male named Jean-Michel Tragneau.
And everything that they have done has only further led me to that conclusion because they are not behaving as though truth is on their side.
You don't try to silence journalists.
Well, last time.
All right.
Last time we discussed this on Uncensored, I bet you $150,000 that you were wrong and that she's a woman.
On X, when we discussed this further, I doubled it.
This is for charity, to $300,000.
You haven't accepted that yet.
So right now, $300,000 to charity.
I say she's a woman.
Are you prepared to take that bet?
I am 1,000% prepared to take that bet.
I actually didn't even see your tweet or I would have accepted it live.
So we can totally accept that bet.
I believe Brigitte Macron is a male and that they will not be presenting any evidence to the contrary because they would have done it already.
Okay.
Candace, I appreciate you coming on uncensored.
I think you're completely wrong, but we shall see.
I think the great thing about this action is we're going to get to the bottom of this extraordinary story.
Thank you very much, indeed, for coming back on.
I'll be back to get my money, Pierce.
We shall see.
I'm very confident.
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