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July 11, 2025 - Uncensored - Piers Morgan
43:15
20250711_you-cant-just-drill-into-it-giza-pyramids-is-the-t
Transcriber: nvidia/parakeet-tdt-0.6b-v2, sat-12l-sm, and large-v3-turbo
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Paid Laborers, Not Slaves 00:10:51
Who should work in the pyramids?
You have to bring scientists from a museum, from a university, but you cannot bring an amateur from New York or London.
You want to squash debate involving, you know, conspiracy theorists and everything.
All we got to do is go in and look.
We know where it's at.
We could drill a hole.
This is doable.
This is the pyramid of Egypt.
This is something valuable.
This is one of the seven wonders of the world.
You just can go on, boom, and a drill like this.
When you were on Joe Rogan, you said that you didn't know what Zepteppi was.
And as a premier Egyptologist in the world, you do know the Egyptian creation myth.
Would you mind just explaining it to us real quick so that to kind of vindicate yourself and show the world you do know what Zepteppi is?
I teach the Egyptian creation, but I am saying this term that you're talking about, I never heard of it.
Are you saying on the record there has been no exploration in the way that Jimmy Corsetti says?
Jimmy, this conspiracy theory that you do have is wrong completely.
We are not hiding anything.
To his Legion of Admirers, Dr. Zahi Hawass is the world's top expert on Egypt's mighty pyramids.
And for good reason.
Throughout an illustrious career, Dr. Hawass has served as the Chief Inspector of the Great Pyramids, Director General of the Giza Monuments, and the Secretary General of the Supreme Council of Antiquities in Egypt.
His book, Giza and the Pyramids, is considered the definitive account.
But to his critics, he's an academic gatekeeper, an elitist of Egyptology, who is preventing others from interrogating the real truth about how, when, and why the pyramids were built.
Many in Joe Rogan's audience felt that way after his appearance earlier this year.
Most of the information that's written on pyramids are wrong.
Most of it?
Most of it.
In archaeology books?
In archaeology books.
Really?
Except me and Mark Leonard.
You guys are the only ones that have it right?
Because I have been working in Giza for the last 57 years of my life.
I excavated every piece of sand.
Well, in this special edition of Uncensored, Dr. Zahi Hawass will join me to discuss his incredible work.
And we'll be joined by two of his most high-profile critics from the alternative archaeology community.
You say the truth about the pyramids has yet to be revealed.
And we'll bring those two gentlemen in shortly.
But first of all, Dr. Hawass, first of all, welcome to Uncensored.
Let me just ask you, first of all, what was your reaction to the reaction you got when you appeared on the Joe Rogan podcast?
Because a lot of it was very negative.
No, when I give any talk about pyramids, I expect the person who interviewed me to read about pyramids or to read about our work.
I am sorry when I did this last interview, I didn't see that Mr. Rogan did really read anything that we published.
And this is why I was trying to refer to our excavation, to our book and so.
But I'm sorry that he said that this show was the worst he did.
And after that, he said it was good.
It's his opinion, but I do, when I talk about evidence of how the Egyptian built the pyramids, I present all the archaeological evidence that I do have.
In the other side, I don't see any evidence that anyone can give me to say that pyramids built by so-and-so.
And that was my point, my point, that I have been excavating in Egypt for the last 57 years.
I excavated every piece of sand at Giza Plateau.
Then when I present a theory or any idea, I present it with evidence.
I'm not talking about something on air.
No.
I'm talking about what we have been discovered at Giza for the last 50 years.
Let me ask you, if you don't mind me just quibbling about one thing, have you really examined every grain of sand at Giza?
We did.
You know, I have to...
How many grains are there?
I start.
I discovered west of the Great Pyramid about 20 tombs.
One of them mentioned in the Wadil Jarf papyri that talking about building the pyramid by someone whose name is Was Mirror.
We found the tombs of the pyramid builders at Giza.
Big, major important discovery.
We found the tombs in the upper cemetery for the technicians with titles in hieroglyphic.
Each title has to do with building the pyramid.
The lower cemetery for the workmen who move the stones.
And next to this mark cleaner excavated an area for sorting salted fish, the bakery for making bread, the houses and the villages that the workmen lived.
Then we do, I mean, I can talk to you.
This is what I'm doing in the States now.
This is top number 25 for me in my lecture in America.
That really I'm presenting to the people all the evidence that we do have to say that Khufu built this pyramid.
And this pyramid did not appear at once.
No.
But the key recent discovery that I believe you've made, that you've made public, is that it's always been traditionally assumed that the pyramids were built by 100,000 slaves.
But you've done some research recently that you believe contradicts that theory.
Your team unearthed tombs near the pyramids, you just touched on that, that suggests they were in fact built by highly skilled paid laborers under a strict regime and were not actually slaves because the slaves, you've argued, wouldn't have had formal burial in close proximity to the pyramids.
So A, just explain that to me and B, explain why this is such a significant discovery in your opinion.
Okay, when we discovered the tombs of the pyramid builders, this discovery, based on the names that we found inside the upper cemetery, I can tell you that pyramids were built by the ancient Egyptian because all the names that we found were Egyptian names.
The second important thing, that there were no slaves.
If there were slaves, the workmen will never be buried in the shadow of the pyramids.
If they were slaves, they will never prepare their tombs for eternity like kings and queens.
I want to tell you one important thing.
There is a big difference between slavery in America in the past and Europe and in Egypt.
In America and Europe, you can own a person.
In ancient Egypt, you can have a servant working for you.
Because I found one tomb west of the Great Pyramid.
It's for a priest.
His name is Kai.
And at the entrance of his tomb, he's saying the following.
I built my tomb.
I hired workmen, exculpators, and artisans.
I paid them beer and bread.
I made them to be happy.
And that's really an evidence to tell you that we have to understand the meaning of slavery in ancient Egypt.
There was no slavery in ancient Egypt.
But I mean, it just seems to me, if you don't mind me saying, Dr. Hawas, you know, I listen, I bow to your far greater expertise than me.
You've written a thousand-page book on geyser alone.
So, you know, I'm not going to try and quibble with you about the history of the pyramids or anything.
I would simply say it seems to me more logical, and correct me if I'm wrong here, more logical that yes, I totally can see that a lot of the local artisans and others would be brought in on this incredible project.
But is it not really stretching credibility that they would not have also used what we would categorize as slaves in some capacity?
Because the work was so onerous, so tough, so hard, and it would take 100,000 or more people.
Were there really a hundred thousand artisans prepared to do that kind of heavy-duty work?
Or is it not more likely that it was a mix of the two?
The number of the workmen that were involved in construction of the pyramid based on our excavation were only 10,000 workmen.
And we have to understand that the Egyptians, before they began to build the pyramid, they had to make a big type of administration to cut a canal, to cut the harbor for bringing stones from Aswan, from Torah, to set the workmen area.
And this is why the 100,000 workermen were sent by Herodotus, the father of the history, who came to Egypt in the middle of the fifth century BC.
And Herodotus used to hear from guides.
Then there is not any evidence of the 100,000.
But we do believe, based on our work and our work on the discovery of the tombs of the pyramid builders and the workmen and installation, that the workmen were only 10,000 workmen.
But again, I find that, look, again, I'm not questioning your research.
I'm simply raising a quizzical eye.
For example, the World Cup football recently took place in Qatar.
I went out there for it and they built a number of stadiums over a few years.
But I think they had around 10,000 people building those football stadiums.
There's no comparison in the complexity and size of these stadiums to the pyramids.
And they had all the benefit of modern technology to help them.
So this idea that you could have the same number of people that built the World Cup stadiums for Qatar and you could do the pyramids with them back in ancient times.
It just, again, it doesn't seem plausible to me.
Stadiums vs Ancient Pyramids 00:09:54
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No, one thing I want to tell you, and this is what I'm saying always in my lectures.
I'm saying, if you stood in front of the Great Pyramid today and you look at it, you will never believe that any human being can build it.
Why?
Because you don't know.
And number two, we have to understand one thing.
that the construction of the pyramid was a national project of the whole nation.
The three millions who lived in Egypt in that time, in the time of Khufu, participated in building the pyramid, to make the king as a god.
Then they, I mean, can you believe moving an obelisk from Aswan to Hatshepsut Temple?
It's a synchronous.
It took seven months.
It took seven months.
And this can be depicted in the Temple of Hatshepsut, showing how they cut this obelisk, how they transported the obelisk on boats.
It explains how they work it for seven months because they want to make the king as a god.
And this is why the households in Upper and Lower Egypt, all of them, participated in sending workforce and food to help the king.
In return, they did not pay taxes.
Then the organization of building the pyramid, as we can see, the major problem that people look at Khufu pyramid only.
They don't look what happened before and what happened after.
If you see how they started, you see there is no gap in the Egyptian history at all to make anyone to think there is something we could argue about.
Okay, well, look, before I bring in the question, okay, before I bring in the other two panel members, I want to play you a clip.
This is from when I had the world-famous Graham Hancock on Uncensored, who said this.
What do you really want to achieve?
What is the goal?
Most of all, what I would like to achieve is for archaeologists to engage with my work without smearing me, without calling me a racist and a white supremacist and a misogynist and an anti-Semite.
All of these words were applied to me.
So I guess my question there, Dr. Hawaz, is do you have an objection to people like Graham Hancock having their own theories about the pyramids because they're not actually from the Middle East, because they're white guys from England?
At all.
First, you have to understand that Egyptology, you have hundreds of American Egyptologists and French and German who are not only the Egyptian Egyptologists.
And by the way, I debated Graham Hancock and Jean-Anton West and Robert Bufal many times in many places.
I met Graham in Egypt, I invited him for dinner.
And I talked to him.
And I ask Graham all the time, if you do have evidence of what you believe on the date of the pyramids and moving stones, you don't have any evidence.
If he give me one single evidence, I will accept that.
You know, I won't tell you about moving stones.
We do have a scene from the old kingdom talking about moving stones.
In the Middle Kingdom, a statue, 60 tons, 170 Egyptians dragging the statue.
The Hatshepsut obelisk, all this can tell us how the European state is.
Let me ask you: why do we not, given we've got technology these days which can go incredibly deep, why don't we just go under the pyramids and go right deep, right down, and really get to the bottom of this?
What's the objection to doing that?
I don't, but they have to understand, we are working right now, two major expeditions: one from England, working under me, and one called Scan Pyramids.
We are using the most sophisticated techniques to understand and to discover the voice.
Discoveries that we till now many of it, and there is others who reveal later.
Then we are not objecting.
But who should work in the pyramids?
You have to bring scientists from a museum, from a university, but you cannot bring an amateur from New York or London to come and work in scientific.
Okay, well, that means that.
I mean, that's quite interesting because what they say, of course, is that it's a bit of a carve-up and that you guys are the pyramid establishment and you don't like outsiders because you don't want them contradicting your narrative.
So, look, let's bring in the other two guests.
Joining us now, two independent researchers and investigators of lost ancient history, Jimmy Corcetti, the host of the Bright Insight YouTube channel, and from the debunking channel, Dan Richards.
Welcome to both.
We had you both on before, of course.
Jimmy Corsetti, what would you like to say to Dr. Hawaz about his recent revelation from his team's research that they believe the pyramids were not built by slaves, and there weren't 100,000, there were about 10,000, and they were artisans at the time.
To be honest, well, let me first say, Piers, thank you for having me back on.
And Zahi, it's a pleasure to make your acquaintance.
There's a few things I take issue with what he had said.
First of all, this scan pyramids project, that initial discovery was back in 2016, and it was cooperated into a published study in 2017.
Well, when you look from 2016 to 2025, that's nine years ago.
That's almost a decade.
And I'm trying to understand why we wouldn't have drilled a half-inch diameter hole and sent in an endoscope camera into this hidden chamber.
Because let's not forget that the Great Pyramid of Giza is arguably the most mysterious and debated structure in all of human history.
We don't know exactly how it was constructed.
And in fact, how it was constructed is one of the most debated topics.
Another debated topic is whether it was actually built to be a tomb for the pharaohs, because after all, we never found any mummy in any Egyptian pyramid ever.
So, with those two significant points of debate, we could squash those debates by simply going in and exploring it.
So, I guess I have a question for Dr. Hawass at this time, which is, why haven't we drilled into that hidden chamber?
When will we do it?
And the third question is: has it already been done so in secret?
Wow, great questions.
All right, Dr. Hawaz, your response.
Now, number one, you have to understand, until today, today is in July 2025, we still have the scan pyramid.
Team are working.
You know that they found behind the main entrance the corridor and they found above the Grand Gallery the big void.
And the Egyptian team, the English team that working under me, they found some important voids.
And you have to be patient.
You have to study how are you going to drill or the new techniques that they're using.
The new techniques that they are using like ultrasound and infrared penetrating radar, all of this, you do not need to drill anymore.
You can see what's behind a wall because the English team from London and Sean, who's working for me, they found a void behind the northern entrance of the Queen Chamber with hieroglyphic signs.
We are studying now how can we approach all these voids?
But you have to understand one thing.
We are not making anything secret.
We advertise everything that we discover.
We found above the king chamber in the five chambers, relieving chambers, two more names of the gangs who built the pyramids.
And we found year 13 of Kofu's reign.
And this is what I'm talking about in my lecture in the States now.
This is my number 25 lecture that I am publishing, announcing to the public everything that we discover inside the Great Pyramid.
Nothing is secret.
Okay.
Well, that's good.
That's good to have that clarified.
New Names in King's Chambers 00:15:13
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Can I just ask you just on a personal level about one thing that's constantly put out there as to whether you believe this is true?
That the Great Pyramid of Giza is claimed to have a correlation with the Earth's circumference and polar radius based on the idea that multiplying the pyramid's perimeter by 43,200 equals the Earth's equatorial circumference and multiplying its height by 43,200 equals the Earth's polar radius.
So that this number, 43,200, is also related to the precession of the Earth's axis.
Is that all true?
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You know, I'm not objecting any theory, but you have to understand every day I hear a theory about a pyramid.
Sometimes.
I mean, that one is an amazing theory.
If that theory is true, it is mind-blowing.
Do you think it's true?
No, send it to me.
I will study it.
You've not heard it?
It's the same number on the Sumerian kings list.
43,200 has been seen in ancient history inexplicably.
And the Sumerians are the earliest document human civilization we have, and that number ties in with them.
Real quick, I'm sorry, but Zahi, you didn't answer my prior question.
Have you guys gone in and explored that hidden chamber?
And if not, when will you begin to do so?
Because to be honest, we could do it by the end of the weekend.
It's not difficult to drill a half-inch diameter hole and send an endoscope here.
So have we been in there?
And if not, when are we going, brother?
I need to know.
This will answer all of our questions.
If you want to squash debate involving, you know, the conspiracy theorists and everything, all we got to do is go in and look.
We know where it's at.
We could drill a hole.
This is doable.
Yeah.
I agree.
Why can't you just go in?
I answered your question.
And I said, You're saying we have not gone into the gold chamber.
Is that correct?
Can you please let me to answer you?
Yes.
I already answered you.
And I said, all these voids that we found, the Scan Pyramid team and the English team, right now, we are discussing and studying how we are going to get in.
You cannot just go in directly like this.
You have to make a study.
You have to research it.
You have to decide as a scientist, when can you do it?
And when can you do that?
We can.
I mean, come on.
I mean, we sent rockets.
We sent rockets to the wrong.
Hang on.
I'm sorry.
We have sent rockets to the moon since the 60s.
I mean, the idea we can get to the moon in space rockets, but we can't get inside a chamber of a tomb in a pyramid.
I mean, come on.
Do you want me to answer now or is still any talk?
I told you what we found inside the Great Pyramid.
And I told you this year, 2025, is the year that we are studying.
How can we enter inside these voids?
And he said, nine years, yes, it can take more than nine years.
This is the pyramid of Egypt.
This is something valuable.
This is one of the seven wonders of the world.
You just can go and boom and drill like this.
You have to be sure that this drill is important to discover something.
That is not nine years.
We have been working since nine years until today.
I hear you.
Let me bring in Dan Danriches.
Dan, what would you like to say to Dr. Awas?
Because there is obviously, there's been a kind of raging conflict between what people see as the establishment objectologists who have kind of access and control, and then all you guys who would probably love to get that kind of access and control, but don't have it.
What do you view about what he's been saying?
Well, first of all, thank you for having me, Pierce.
It's good to meet you, Zahi.
I have a quick, when you were on Joe Rogan, you said that you didn't know what Zepteppi was.
And I figured I would give you a chance.
I would imagine as the premier Egyptologist in the world, you do know the Egyptian creation myth.
Would you mind just explaining it to us real quick so that to kind of vindicate yourself and show the world you do know what Zepteppi is?
No, I mean, I know about the ancient Egyptian creation, but maybe I don't know this term.
But what I'm saying, what this has to do with what we are discussing now.
Oh, it's very important because, I mean, it's the ancient Egyptian creation myth involves a primeval mound, right?
And this is a symbolic bed.
This is something you're going to see all over the ancient world.
So that term Zeptepe is, you see it in Egyptian without the vowels, but it is the Egyptian creation myth.
So it's kind of important.
It's a very important lens to use when you're interpreting these artifacts.
So when you were on Joe Rogan and he asked you what it was, and you said you didn't know what it was.
So honestly, if you wouldn't mind, it's a good chance to educate yourself.
No.
I teach the Egyptian creation, but I'm saying this term that you're talking about, I never heard of it.
Maybe it is not in, I never heard it in the world of Egyptology.
Maybe it's between the others, but I can tell you about creation, how the Egyptians created this world, but I don't understand what this has to do with the pyramid.
Now that's the one that's not.
Dan, let me ask you just on the wider point of the recent discovery by Dr. Hawa, also the claim from the research, that there were no slaves involved in the building of the pyramids.
To me, that's ludicrous.
I mean, I worked construction for a long time and they're using the food and the graves and stuff.
And I mean, I saw many construction workers eating McDonald's while there was other construction workers eating steak.
It just depends on if he's a foreman, if he's an engineer, or if he's just a grunt.
The painters don't eat as good as the electricians who don't eat as good as the engineers and the architects.
So, you know, having 10,000 people buried in the shade of the pyramid in a grave, mind you, that only says they worked for Khufu.
It never says that they built the pyramids.
So that's a stretch.
That's an assumption that these are pyramid builder graves.
But in addition to that, there could be graves of tens of thousands of slaves off the site that haven't been discovered that were doing all the grunt work while somebody else was holding the plum bomb.
So to me, it's ludicrous to say there were no slaves involved.
But to be clear, and to be fair to Dr. Hawaz, you don't know for a fact that it's not true, do you?
What are you saying?
Of course not.
I mean, that's ancient history, right?
We can all speculate.
We can all spitball, but the only things we really know are carbon dating and written records, kind of sort of.
But I mean, we fledge written records all the time, even today.
All right.
Jimmy, you raised your hand.
I completely agree with everything that Dan just said.
However, something very important for all of us to be humbled by is the fact that the great pyramids of Giza were allegedly created by the Old Kingdom.
And there's a few things that need to be considered when we discuss what we think we know and what we don't know about the pyramid's construction, which is that after the pyramid's construction, there was three other changes of kingdom within Egypt.
Old kingdom, middle kingdom, new kingdom.
And between them are missing chapters of human history within Egypt.
For example, between the old kingdom and the middle kingdom is approximately 126 years of completely missing history.
It's conjecture.
We think that it may have been a revolt within Egypt, a civil war, but something happened to completely overthrow the fourth dynasty going into the fifth dynasty.
And then between the middle kingdom and the new kingdom is approximately 186 years of missing history.
So the point that I'm making is that within each of those two chapters of missing history, that's longer than any human lifespan.
It's multiple generations, which means that nobody was alive afterwards to say what was happening before.
We have absolutely no idea how the pyramids were constructed, how, or even precisely when.
And actually, I should point out that, Zahi, you mentioned about the movement of stones and you cited that 60-ton stone that depicts being moved on a wooden sledge.
Well, that is only 60 tons, whereas the Egyptians had moved the 1,000-metric ton Ramessium statue.
1,000 metric tons is well over 2.2 million pounds and it was inexplicably moved approximately 170 miles from Aswan to Luxor.
That is 17 times heavier than that statue that you repeatedly cite.
Not twice as heavy, not five times as heavy, not 10 times as heavy, 17 times heavier.
And I'm not, are we to pretend that wooden sleds are infinitely scalable?
The reality is that there is a mystery here.
We don't know how they constructed the pyramids.
We don't know how they lifted and stacked 80 ton stones 300 feet above the ground.
And again, I just would like your clarification.
Are you saying that there has been no exploration into any of those hidden voids yet above the Grand Gallery?
Can you tell me in good faith that you're certain that nobody within the Egypt Ministry of Antiquities has explored that yet?
Okay, well, a lot to unpack there.
So first of all.
Yes or no, Zahi.
Sorry, Piers.
Dr. Harvas, answer that last question definitively.
You've been asked it directly.
Are you saying on the record there has been no exploration in the way that Jimmy Corsetti says?
Jimmy, I want you to understand this conspiracy theory that you do have is wrong completely.
We do not hide anything.
If the Egyptian, listen, if we do have any evidence that pyramids are back 15,000 years old, what's wrong with this?
We'll announce this.
We are not against anything.
But what I am saying, we are not hiding anything.
And you have to know this.
Your theory that we have something that we hide is not true.
Always any discovery and any explanation.
Excuse me.
We are not hiding anything.
I want you to talk about it.
Yes.
Hang on.
Hang on.
What about the second point that Jimmy made, which is surrounding the Ramessum, which was a thousand tons?
How did that get moved?
You know, I one thing.
We have, I can give you three evidence of moving stones.
We have the Yuadil Jarf Babairi.
Do you know anything about this Papyri?
The Babairi is talking about.
And he talked about his voice.
His name is D.
We found this.
You have in the Middle Kingdom.
And by the way, when it comes to that papyrus, moving on that says that the word pyramid mentioned one single time.
I gave you the time to talk.
Give me the time to answer you, please.
You never said yes or no, though, to that prior question about explanation.
You didn't say yes or no.
You said there's no secrets, but yes or no?
Have you been in there?
I told you we are not.
We are talking now.
We are searching now.
We are discussing now how can we enter this void?
Then we had the voids.
But have you done it yet?
No, we have told you this year it will happen.
It will happen this year before the end of 2025 and the beginning of the year.
We are going to show all the voids inside the pyramid in the TV.
Dr. Harvos, let me ask you.
What is the one thing you are desperate to discover about the pyramids, which you've never been able to answer yourself?
Number one, I want to tell Jimmy that we found all the evidence of how the Great Pyramid was built.
Completely.
No, we don't have to explain how we lifted and stacked 80 tons stones 300 feet above the ground.
And prior to that, there were no military military.
No, we know I have to go back.
We have it shown.
We have it shown in scenes in tombs in the Middle Kingdom and the New Kingdom and the Old Kingdom.
You have to go and read about this.
But number two.
Which tomb?
Where do you know that that's not true?
I know that that's not true.
So for the audience, we can Google it upon herself.
The tomb of Jehuti Hotep at Dere el-Bersha.
It shows 172 men are moving a 60-tons statue.
Then what's less weight than the Ramessium statue?
How do you move a thousand tons stone, like you said?
How do you do that?
Do you know I want to show you today our workmen today who are the descendants of the workmen in the past?
They move in front of me more than 60,000 tons.
This is a national project.
This Egyptian who lives in the time of Ramsay II.
This is in the old kingdom, and there's absolutely no documentation of any kind describing how the pyramids were constructed.
Again, there's missing history that happened right after the 100,000 hieroglyphs in Egypt.
There's not one single one that depicts or otherwise describes in any capacity the construction of the pyramids.
And again, that diary that you keep citing actually doesn't include the word pyramid whatsoever.
Squares Without Lasers 00:07:15
Just like Dan Richards had just said, it's an assumption.
You know, Zaya, if you would like to invite me out to show me, you know, the exploration of this hidden void, I think it'd be very good for the influence of the various influencers within this community on the internet that are concerned that things have not been shared on the up and down.
I'd actually like to come.
I'd like to like you.
I'm not sure if I can do it.
I'd love to come as the impartial guide on that trip, actually.
Don't report me.
Let me bring Dan back in.
Dan, out of interest, the same question to you.
Hang on one second, Dr. Hawaz.
Dan Richards, what is the thing you would most like to just know for sure about the honestly?
As a guy who's worked construction a lot, there's one of the questions that are unanswered about the construction of the pyramids.
You can say that you know how they lifted the stones all you want, but the squaring of that edifice to itself.
The Great Pyramid has about a two-inch deviation on a 756-foot run.
That's less than a thousandth of a percent.
You can't do that with ropes because they're going to sag.
You can't do it with putting sticks back to back because you're going to get errors.
Nowadays, we use transits and lasers.
You know, 500 years ago, they built the observatory at Greenwich, and it's not remotely as accurate to itself as the Great Pyramid.
So honestly, I would just like to know how the hell they got it so perfectly accurate in its own footprint.
How did you square?
How do they square something on that size?
It's like machine age accuracy on a gigantic scale.
So do you have any idea how they squared the edifice, Dr. Hawas?
Did you go to Dashur to see the pyramids of Khufu's father?
No, I have not been to Egypt, but I'm aware of the pyramids at that time.
If you haven't been in Egypt, how can you, based on what you see?
Because you have to know one thing.
When the Egyptians began to think about building Khufu Pyramid, you have to know they choose Giza Plateau because Giza Plateau is a part of the Mukatam formation.
Level 1 and 2 are very bad stones, but level 3 has the best quality of the stones.
The pyramid came 1,000 feet away from the base of Khufu pyramid.
And we located the location of the quarry.
But before they moved the stones, they had to cut in the solid rock until they made the base of the pyramid meters of solid rock, no stones.
And they established a ramp from the quarry to the southwest corner.
The ramp was constructed of stone rubble and sand.
And we excavated the root of this ramp and we found it.
Then the Egyptian had a team cut.
Sorry.
Can I?
I'm sorry, yes, go ahead.
The Egyptian divided the workmen, as we hear from Wadil Jarf Babairi, that I would like Jimmy to read first before he can talk to me.
The Wadil Jarfi, don't come at me like that.
I've been to Giza three times, and I loved it.
And I would love to go out there with you.
I sincerely mean that.
I know it sounds like I'm sharpening you, but I'm talking about the Wadil Jarf Papairi.
You have to read it on the stand.
It says what?
It doesn't say anything.
It doesn't say anything about reconstructing the pyramids.
I'm talking about the accuracy of the square.
How they made it so square.
It's extremely perfect.
And it's the kind of thing that we can't do today without lasers.
We don't do it.
You can't do it with ropes.
You can't do it with sticks.
What's there?
What's your conclusion?
No, I need to understand.
Honestly, what do you want to say?
My conclusion is they used, you know, the plates that have the plate with many rings, like a target that you have in the museum in Cairo.
I believe that that was a target that they used a concave mirror and used the pinpoint of light to fill up circles at different distances.
I haven't been able to test that, but that's they had to use something more than ropes because you can't get that kind of accuracy without some without something better.
I'm trying to keep it low-tech.
Again, my question: what is your conclusion?
If the Egyptians did not do this, who did it, in your opinion?
I'm not saying the Egyptians didn't do it.
I'm talking about specific problems and how to solve them.
I don't care if Gandhi did it.
I'm talking about how to get it squared.
And so I'm trying to answer that without going to lasers or ancient high-tech.
But honestly, the issue here as I see it is you're telling me that the problem's solved.
I'm telling you that if I was tasked with doing that, as a guy who's been tasked with pouring foundations, I couldn't do that.
I would be looking at it going, I'm going to need better tools than what you had.
Could it be that they were just better back then at construction than we are now?
Well, you're talking about a margin of error.
So, I mean, you still have to figure out how they would, how they measured.
That's understandable.
I mean, there were geniuses all over the place in that period of the history of the planet.
You know, I mean, why couldn't they just have had construction geniuses who, bereft of things like lasers, had to come up with other brilliant ideas to do it?
I mean, look, somebody will notice, right?
Somebody built this.
I have to assume they were humans.
It's most likely they were Egyptian humans.
So we should be able to agree on those broad parameters.
The fascinating thing about the pyramids is we just don't really know how they did it.
And I hope we get in.
Yeah.
Well, what's that, sir?
The pyramids themselves exceed the known capabilities of the dynastic.
So that's what makes it so fascinating.
And look, we've run out of time.
I could talk about this for hours.
I've become a real Egypt pyramid nerd because of this.
But I actually love your idea, Jimmy, that we all go out to the pyramids.
Maybe at the moment that you get inside these chambers and we actually discover maybe the secrets of one of the great wonders of the world.
I've got to leave it there.
Thank you very much, Dr. Hawaz, for joining me.
I appreciate it.
Thank you very much.
But I will be happy to see all of you in Cairo and take you in a tour and show you what I'm talking about.
I would actually love to see the pyramids.
I think it'd be an amazing episode of Piers Morgan Uncensored.
Let's go on the road.
Let's go to the pyramids.
I'm waiting.
Let's do it.
I'm waiting for you and I will give you a personal tour.
Love it.
I'm in.
Done.
Agreed.
Gentlemen.
Thank you.
Thank you all very much.
Thank you.
Thank you for all of you.
Thank you.
Ridiculous.
Thank you, Zahi.
It was a pleasure.
I'm loved to meet you.
See you in Cairo.
Take care, guys.
Thank you, Piers.
Take care, Jim.
Thank you.
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