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July 8, 2025 - Uncensored - Piers Morgan
55:58
20250708_utter-lack-of-humanity-charlize-theron-lily-allens
Transcriber: nvidia/parakeet-tdt-0.6b-v2, sat-12l-sm, and large-v3-turbo
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Time Text
Welcome to the Uncensored Debut 00:03:21
Do you understand that I can take things that are happening socially, point to the worst of them, even if I don't agree with them, to use that as an example of why it's bad?
Why think bad?
These lips talk out of both sides of their mouth.
Aren't you just basically admitting that you're a Hollywood prostitute at that point?
Well, gee, who could have predicted this?
Who could have predicted that women who are in positions of power may act overtly emotional just based on, well, even the hormones in their body.
You're like a little petulant child.
Yes or no?
Yes or no.
The latest episode of Call Her Daddy features a lengthy interview with Oscar-winning actress Charlize Theron entitled I Don't Need a Man.
And in it, Miss Theron explains how she reacts to people criticizing her for being a single mom.
I like want to just like look at them and just be like, Do you know how fucking great it is to live exactly how I want to live, to experience motherhood exactly how I wanted to experience it?
And I know the next thing they say is like, well, that's not fair on your kids.
Can I tell you something?
That will be their story to tell.
I can't tell you.
I can only tell you that this is the best way that I know how to be a mother to them.
And maybe they'll grow up and tell their story.
And I will respect that.
Well, she also wanted audiences to know how liberating it is for her children not to have a father.
I love that I don't have to run every fucking thing by a guy.
I don't, I love that I don't have to, well, oh my God, Kobe.
I like, I fucking love that I don't have to do any of that stuff.
And my children, you know, we joke, listen, I think you can tell, like, this is how I raise my kids.
Like, right?
We don't hide this shit.
But don't worry, while Charlize doesn't think husband or father is important in life, she hasn't given up on men altogether.
I found this freedom in my 40s where I'm like, oh my God.
So I just want to say this in perspective.
I've probably had three one-night stands in my entire life.
Okay.
But I did just recently fuck a 26-year-old and it was really fucking amazing.
Fuck yes.
Yes.
And I've never done that.
And I was like, oh, this is great.
Okay.
Let me just say that 26-year-old is the luckiest fucking man walking on this goddamn planet.
He's walking different today, knowing.
Oh my God.
He for sure is not, but thank you.
He is.
Well, the episode's been viewed by nearly a million people so far.
Reaction has been divided between those who celebrate Charlize as, quote, a powerful, badass, epitome of a strong woman fighting against the evil patriarchy, and others who, in equally strident language, view the whole episode as another example of modern feminist media denigrating the role of men at every given opportunity.
All of which makes it a good starting point for a lively debate.
Well, joining me for this battle of the sexes, host of the Crucible podcast, Andrew Wilson, who I could imagine was visibly shuddering as he listened to those clips.
Jedediah Byler, who's the host of the Jediah Bilas Show, commentator and author of the Case for Cancel Culture, Ernest Owens, and the editor of the User Mag newsletter.
Taylor Lorenz, well, welcome to all of you.
And Jedediah, welcome to you, especially because you're making your uncensored debut.
We always like debutantes.
I'm always astonished.
Thank you very much, Barris.
Always astonished when people come back for more.
But thank God they do.
And thank God Andrew Wilson does.
Andrew, your thoughts on Charlize Ron.
The Double Standard Reaction Explained 00:06:02
She doesn't need a man.
She likes banging 26-year-olds when she feels like it.
You don't need fathers in life.
You just need a strong, badass woman.
Well, you know, it's really funny.
The reason nobody cares really very much when a 40-year-old, attractive woman has sex with some random young man is because it's not impressive.
It's impressive when men can bang young women because most men can't bang young women, but most older women can bang young men.
So it's just not an impressive accomplishment.
Of course, these are the same women who will screech because, you know, Leonardo DiCaprio decides that he wants to change up at 25 years old any of the broads he has hanging around.
But this is not an impressive accomplishment.
All a woman needs to do to get laid is go somewhere where there's men and offer it up.
It's not the case for men.
So it's an unimpressive accomplishment on its face.
As to the rest of what she's saying, this is just normal tripe, right?
Her kids are the ones who are going to get punished.
They're always the ones who get punished.
We can look at the data for outcomes on children who are raised in single mother homes.
It's not good.
It's not good for their mental health.
It's not, and by the way, the rates of abuse from having strange men around skyrocket.
Terrible idea.
And it's exactly the wrong kind of propaganda to be pushing.
All right, Taylor Lorenz, isn't it just a factual reality of life that women are predominantly happier with a man by their side and children are predominantly better off in life with a present father?
I think, listen, children are better off in life when they have a loving household.
And not all of those households have fathers.
I mean, there are lesbian parents.
There are, you know, different types of arrangements.
I think it's important for kids to have different figures in their life who they can look up to.
And, you know, I think it's really important to expose kids to all different types of figures, but that doesn't have to be, you know, that doesn't have to be like a man, a cisgender man that's standing around all the time.
There's plenty of terrible fathers out there, too.
So yeah, I think it's great that the child is growing up in a loving household.
And hopefully, you know, she'll expose the child to lots of different types of children.
Yeah, but can you acknowledge that we have now been studying this phenomenon of single motherhood for years and years and years and that the outcomes for children of single mothers tend to be terrible in comparison to the outcomes of children without them?
Can you just acknowledge that that is true?
So I think what you're talking about are setting up.
I'm asking a question.
Don't run from the question.
Yes or no?
I want you to acknowledge with a yes or no, then a qualifier.
Yes or no.
Isn't it true that outcomes for children when they're raised by single mothers tend to be worse than those with a mother and a father in the house?
Yes or no?
Then give me your answer.
So I'd love to respond if you stop talking over me.
Anyway, most single mothers are not Charlize Theron with millions and millions and millions of dollars.
So when you look at studies like that, a lot of it has to do with the economic opportunities that a lot of single mothers have.
You know, women make less than men as a whole.
They're subject to more sexism and discrimination.
So it can often be more challenging for them to raise children.
So the answer is yes.
No, the answer is Charlie Theron.
It sounds like you just said that the answer is yes.
The answer, according to you just now, is yes.
No, any single- And then you just make excuses for it.
You're like, yes.
Taylor, this is so weird.
What I, you're like shouting at me.
I don't know.
Well, do you know what it is?
Hang on, time out.
Time out.
Let's bring in Jenna Diet.
Taylor, this is not rocket science.
First of all, you lost me at cis male.
You just meet a guy, just a man, right?
We don't need all these terms, these nonsensical, ridiculous terms that, you know, modern leftists have come up with.
It's just a man.
Children do better when there is a mom and there is a dad.
And the reason is that men and women are completely different.
They bring very different things to the table.
And children need the role model of a mom and a dad, not just people around.
Sure, you can have aunts.
You can have uncles.
You can have friends, but we're talking about the two individuals that are raising children.
And let me just ask you this question.
Wait, I'm not done yet.
You complained that Andrew interrupted you and now you just interrupted me.
I'm not done yet.
Charlize there and you're right.
She is rich.
She has a ton of money.
But what example do you think she's sending to young women everywhere that this is somehow empowering?
That you should strive, by the way.
You should strive to be the single mom because you don't have to deal with a guy.
You don't have to answer to a man.
Oh, isn't that so wonderful?
And guess who will pay the price?
My kid, she even says, my kids can tell their story.
How unbelievably selfish of her to say, my children will one day to get to tell a story that they had no father because I decided that I just wanted to do this myself.
Me, myself, and my money.
Is that the message?
I wanted to go home 26 years old.
They shouldn't be able to raise children.
You need a man.
What about women?
They're not talking about.
Taylor, no one said what.
I'm not talking about Christianity.
I tell you what I find strange.
What I find strange is I know Charlize a bit when she was dating Sean Penn and thought she was very nice.
She was always very elegant.
If you interviewed her, her whole thing was high-end, elegant, you know, all the highest end advertising and so on.
And then you see her there in this podcast.
She's like effing and blinding, talking about banging 26-year-olds.
Very, very different, Ernest, to the Charli Theron I thought I knew.
I'm not saying it's good, bad, or whatever, but I do wonder if it was a male movie star sitting on a sofa, brazenly boasting about banging 26-year-olds.
How old is Charlene?
Charlize?
50.
If a 50-year-old male star was talking, boasting about banging 26-year-old girls, right?
And he was boasting about not needing a woman in his life, not needing a mother, all these kind of things.
But in reverse, I don't think you'd be approving of this, Ernest.
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I mean, for starters, I'm all for if it's about consent and respect.
They do it all the time.
A lot of older men do it all the time on media, on social media, in interviews.
It's not actually uncommon thing.
I think the reason why there's a lot of actual shock and awe over Charlize Theron, because a lot of women actually her age don't feel the liberty to do that on a public-facing platform.
And so that's why we're talking about her.
We don't talk about men who do it often on here because it's so norm.
I mean, if you look at who's in politics currently right now, they were just doing it their entire career before they got to the White House.
So it's not that much of a shock.
You know, there's a guy who got elected president and he screamed bloody murder about it and got elected.
And so you liberals said that that was the most horrible thing.
He was a terrible role model.
How could he?
And here's Charlice.
There it is saying this.
And you're like, she's your power boss, babe, Andrew.
Come on.
See, if I talk over here, Pierce can tell me to be quiet.
You're done talking, dude.
You're done talking.
Come on.
I wasn't done talking, actually.
Can I actually, you can, Anisia.
Okay, thanks.
So what I was getting at is that there is a double standard.
And I think, honestly, like I said before, I don't know what liberal he's talking about, but I was not liberal that said that Trump talking about grabber by the pussy was the worst thing he ever said because there's a lot of other things he has said that I believe is far worse and actually should cause more attention.
But that being said, I just feel like the only reason why we're talking about it is because women like Charlize Theron often don't do this on a normal.
So it feels abnormal, and that's why we're discussing it.
Okay.
Andrew, why do these libs, these lips talk out of both sides of their mouth?
I mean, look at it.
She refused to acknowledge the outcomes for single moms.
Immediately.
Immediately.
Look, I'm sorry.
If you have progressive talking points, if it walks like a duck and it quacks like a duck, I call it a duck.
So the thing is, the libs on the panel very clearly, right?
She evades the answer, refuses to give us the answer of if outcomes for single, for children, single moms or worse, refuses, gives us a bunch of qualifiers proving that they are, still refuses to do it.
He says, well, this is so commonplace for men.
Look at the sexual deviant that we have in the White House and says, but I'm not throwing a fit about that.
I'm not throwing a fit about that, though.
Yeah, they did throw a fit about it.
It's an ineffective discussion.
It's just an ineffective discussion.
I would like you, you know, I would just like you to actually answer the questions I ask you.
Why can't you?
I have a question for Ernest.
Ernest, you said there was...
Hold on a second, guys.
Ernest, you said there was a double standard.
What are you, in your view, where is the double standard?
Because I see a double standard here, but I think we see a different double standard.
Cool.
So what I was saying was the double standard reaction, right?
There is a lot of reaction because of what Charlie Staron said.
I'm saying that I understand where that is coming from because we don't often see women like Charlize Theron on these platforms talking about their sexuality.
But it's celebrating.
Ernest, that's not true.
But here's the difference.
Every time, a man, every time, hold on a second.
Every time a man says a guy can't even say that he prefers younger women.
He can't even say, well, you know what?
I prefer younger women because of their fertility is better, because they're in their peak attractiveness, because I want to have a bunch of kids and it gives me more time without getting completely trashed.
Let's be clear.
Let's be clear.
Hang on, hang on.
Let's be clear.
If Brad Pitt came out with an interview tomorrow on Uncensored, and I hope he does.
If you're watching Brad, my show is always available to you.
But if he was and he said, do you know what?
Just only last week, I had the most unbelievable sex with a hot 26-year-old, right?
Do you think the reaction, Ernest, would have been widespread applause for this guy?
Or would it have been, you dirty old man?
No, no, no.
I'm not saying that I feel that about Charlize Ron.
I'm just saying that's the double standard, right?
Leo DiCaprio gets mocked at every award show because he dates women half his age.
Now he's Charlie Saron.
Everyone's like, oh, this is amazing.
I can give you an example where that backfired.
So let me be very clear.
So let me give you a good example of this, actually.
First of all, it's if it's a pattern, right?
Charlize Theron is not doing this on the regular.
That's why this is a big news story.
She's been mostly in long-term relationships.
She does not have a habit of doing this.
Leonardo DiCaprio's entire romantic, a lot of his romantic history has been this pattern, which has become a running joke.
The first couple of years he did it, no one cared, but it's been decades, like over like a, that's not why it's a news story.
With respect, first of all, first of all, both of those things have been covered in the news.
But the reason, what Pierce is getting at, I think, I don't want to put words in his mouth, this is being celebrated.
Do you understand the difference?
Modern feminism has made it so that we now celebrate that Charlize Theron.
And by the way, I don't give a lick, honestly.
It's consensual.
I don't care if she sleeps with a 26-year-old.
And by the way, there are a lot of 26-year-old men who will be absolutely thrilled that she's on the Cougar.
Scarlett Johansson and the Male Gaze 00:13:05
That's correct.
I mean, I don't care either.
We can agree there.
I'm smart enough to acknowledge that she is being celebrated for that action, whereas a Leonardo DiCaprio or the average guy for that matter, just saying, hey, I prefer a 22-year-old to a 32-year-old will get destroyed in every you know what?
I actually have no problem with what she said about a 26-year-old.
That's entirely down to her.
She's a single woman.
She can have sex with whoever the hell she likes if it's consenting.
I do, though, have a problem with, and Andrew was, I think, right about this.
In a way, what she's saying is all your quaint ideas about you need a bloke around, you need a father, you need a husband, that's all bullshit.
Look at me, I'm proof, it's all great.
I don't believe women when they say that.
I don't believe men when they say the same thing.
You know, I just think that actually the ideal is that you have a man and woman around kids and they bring them up together.
And if that isn't possible and it doesn't work out, okay, you make it work, but to actually try and pretend this is actually utopia and this is the best possible thing for your kids, I don't think that's true.
And I say that as a divorcee myself.
I don't think this is ever actually the ideal, but you make it work as best you can.
I want to switch gears to something which really did annoy me.
Lily Allen, the pop star, former pop star.
Let's be accurate.
Talking about abortion.
Abortions, I've had a few, but then again, I can't remember exactly how many.
Really?
Yeah.
Why didn't this come up in last week's episode when we were just talking about abortions?
Because I was just letting you run with it.
Reveal everything.
I can't remember.
Yeah.
I think maybe like, I want to say five, four or five.
Yeah, I've had about five too.
Lily, I've never, I'm so happy I can say that.
And you can say it.
And no one came to shoot us down.
No judgment.
No judgment.
We've had about the same amount of abortions.
You know what, Taylor?
I'm not going to judge them in the way they think I'm going to judge them.
I'm not going to judge them for having abortions.
I believe in a woman's right to choose what she does with her body.
It's a very, I know, and we'll come to Andrew's position on that.
I think we know what it is, and I'll get your view.
But the point is, Taylor, I'm not against abortion.
I am against women that talk about it so glibly.
I am against two women sitting there just brazenly talking in a very kind of slightly boastful way.
We've had 10 abortions between us and Lily Allen can't even remember how many abortions she's had.
I don't like that aspect to what was going on there.
I think it's distasteful.
I think it trivializes abortion.
Abortion, you know, whether you agree with it or not, you should always treat it, I think, as a serious thing, which should be taken seriously and dealt with seriously.
That, to me, was trivializing it.
Your thoughts?
Yeah, I think that, you know, I hear you, Pierce, and I take your point.
I think that most women have a struggle with access to abortion, especially now here in America.
And I think that normalizing the idea of having abortion is overwhelmingly a good thing.
We shouldn't normalize the idea of having five abortions with two women there basically making out, oh, thank God we can talk about this now.
Like this is normal.
That's not normal.
That's five abortions.
It should be normal to have easy access to abortion.
It should be.
I don't think that, but that's a different, that's a political matter.
That's a social matter for the women.
But it's the way you talk about it, I think, is actually, for example, in America, where it's a really hot potato issue.
I could imagine everyone, I'll come to Andrew for what I think will be his response.
I could imagine it.
He'll be very angry because he doesn't agree with abortion to start with, to then see women, high-profile women like this, famous women, just talking about it in such a glib manner.
They want to restrict because they want to restrict women's rights and they want to restrict women's access to healthcare.
This is essential.
Abortion is essential to healthcare.
And I understand what you're saying, but it is healthcare, yes.
And it's really important.
It's ridiculous.
It's not ridiculous.
It saves women's lives in many cases to have an abortion.
And it's really hard for women to get access to it.
And they feel a lot of shame around it because of the social stigma.
Taylor, does it sound to you like those women feel a lot of shame around abortion?
Is that what it sounds like?
The point is, is that many women are taught, and it sounds like you guys on this very panel want women to feel shame about it.
And in fact, they should not be.
Shouldn't you be proud of it?
Is the point.
I mean, let me bring Andrew in here.
I mean, Andrew, I know your position on abortion, but notwithstanding that, it doesn't really concern me really whether people are for or against it.
It's the way they're talking about it.
I find.
So let's leave the argument about whether they understand.
Yeah, but it's totally self-centered and selfish.
And look, she says, I'm not a lib.
Women need to have more abortions.
The thing is, so, or I have more access to abortions.
Lies through her teeth.
It's a healthcare procedure.
Most women's lives, when they have abortions, has nothing to do with the life of them at all, their physical health at all.
Total lies from the left.
On top of that, let's just point out that what they're really doing there is they're sitting there going, I just like how do they murder five of my kids?
And the other one's like, yeah, me too.
Isn't that great, sweetheart?
The other one's like, yeah, totally.
That's so awesome that we could just kill our children.
Isn't that great?
And so normal people, we normal people hear.
So we, so anyway, we normal people hear this, you know, like regular Joes.
And of course, we're disgusted by it.
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The fact of the matter is, is it just shows a complete and total lack of caring for humanity, lack of caring for children.
This is supposed to be the more empathetic sex.
And yet, when they have power over vulnerable life, they kill it.
Really?
You're going to convince me that's the more empathetic.
I just have one little.
Yeah, I think for me, it's just two things, right?
I think that we can, some people feel like the way in which she went about discussing it was tasteless.
I think for people listening to it, I did.
I think that there's a better, in my personal taste, right?
I think there could have been a better way she could have said it, but that's just my personal preference.
And I think that's just how she is with a lot of things.
Lily Allen, I don't agree with a lot of things that Lily Allen says or how she says it personally.
And I think that's the real thing here.
However, what I think is important is that everybody's getting abortions.
This whole libs, far left, far right stuff.
I really get annoyed with that because it's almost as if you're acting like only one, like everybody makes decisions based on their political ideologies.
And that's just so immature.
And this obsession.
We can look at the libs, libs, lips.
And we can look at the reproductive stats and we know which political party is advocating for abortion and which one isn't.
We know which political parties advocate for it, which one's not.
I don't come with that.
Like, I'm just saying, it's not a, for me, this is not a libs thing or whatever.
It's really just a matter of taste.
And that's what I'm saying.
How could it not be?
How could it not be a lot of people?
Legend of Diaspora.
How could it not be?
If liberals are the ones, I mean, just be honest, liberals are the ones that are promoting a pro-abortion culture.
Liberals are the ones that are saying it should be celebrated.
The word here, Ernest, Ernest, hold on a second.
The word here to be used is these women are celebrating abortions.
And you see young women all over TikTok, by the way, and all over social media who are echoing these voices now.
So an abortion is something whether you believe it should be, it was supposed to be safe, legal, and rare.
That was the idea when people were advocating back in the day.
Pro-abortion advocates were saying safely learned.
Does this sound rare to you?
Oh, I every time I have sex, I just run and get an abortion.
Like I went to the dentist's house.
This shouldn't be rare.
Access to health care shouldn't be rare.
Access to healthcare.
Teller, no one's talking about access.
No one, you have access to a whole bunch of things in society.
That doesn't mean you utilize them.
These are women that are going to be able to do that.
Stigmatize abortion.
When you stigmatize abortion, it leads to less abortion access.
When you stigmatize murder, it leads to less murder.
Yeah, but actually, Taylor, Taylor, that Taylor, that argument works the other way because if you trivialize it and you look like you're slightly gleeful and you're very proud of having had five abortions, as both of them appeared to come over, and that's just the way we can judge them from that clip.
They said, don't be judgmental.
Well, actually, you can be when people are apparently trivializing it in the way they were.
But I think my point is that the reason Andrew is so exercised is not just because he's anti-abortion, but here's exactly what he's been saying for a long time, which is a lot of women treat it like it's just another thing.
Well, actually, it's more serious.
And I agree with that.
Even though I support women's rights to have an abortion, no one should be like proud or gleeful or joyful or celebratory about it.
It should be serious.
Can you understand how that stigmatizing sort of framework would be used to restrict access to abortion?
Saying, well, you're not, you know, pious enough.
You haven't repented enough.
You're not sorry enough.
So you don't deserve access.
That is what is used to strip women's tailor.
It should be stigmatizing.
It should be stigmatizing for women to talk about abortion like that.
This is sick.
This is your empowered women now out there saying, oh, I don't know.
I had four abortions, five abortions, six abortions, like you went for a root canal.
You go.
I mean, listen, this is not the face of an empowered woman.
This is pathetic.
It's sad.
And this is the product.
Sorry to say, this is the product of modern feminism and what it has done to women.
That now they weaponize their ability to kill, because that's my view.
So I'm going to say they weaponize their ability to kill and they expect society to put a big stamp of approval on it.
And people like you do.
I'm not doing it.
I'm not condoning it.
I'm not doing it.
I'm calling it out.
And if they feel stigmatized by their behavior, then so be it.
Maybe that has more to do with their behavior, their crappy behavior, their sick, twisted behavior than it does by what I'm saying about it.
Wait, wait, I just want to say this real quick.
Let's be real honest here.
Even if you did not, if you personally do not support abortion, you really think that it's a murder, there would be no way, quite frankly, that you want anyone to discuss it.
So I think it's intellectually dishonest to act as though we're going to use this extreme of Lily Allen, which I do agree, right?
I personally think that the way that Lily Allen discussed it was not the best way.
But to be honest, for those who do not support abortion, which I do support a woman's right to choose, there would have never been a way for you to approve it.
So you're using the most extreme example as a way to now double down and justify every other belief that you have on this.
That's the dumbest thing.
That's the dumbest thing I've ever heard.
We talk about murder openly all the time.
What are you talking about?
So why are we talking about Lily Allen?
Yeah, we talk about things we don't support all the time.
What are you talking about?
So here's what Chris Morgan and I are understanding.
So let's make this make common sense.
Pierce and I both, I assume, support a woman's right to choose.
I don't know, but I think we do.
We both do not agree about the taste of how Lily Allen did it.
However, I think for some of you all on this, on this episode, you're not going to ever agree with this.
So stop acting like Lily Allen is the example of all women who discuss having abortions because it's not true.
You just want to use it as an example to dismiss the case of abortions, period.
And so that's so good.
I see.
I see.
Hang on.
Let me respond.
Let me respond.
I see what a genius, what a genius argument.
Yes, Andrew, you think that all murder and murderers are bad.
So, you're going to point at serial killers and say, see how bad that is?
Great argument, genius.
What a wonderful argument.
You have to respond to this argument, but clearly it's pretty good because you have zero.
That was the argument.
Do you understand?
Do you understand that I can take things that are happening socially, point to the worst of them, even if I don't agree with them, to use that as an example of why it's bad?
Why thing bad?
Think bad because look, you can see that why thing bad.
Do you not right now?
You're crashing.
This is an extreme example.
Whether you like abortion, whether you support abortion or not, we're not making up this extreme example.
This extreme example exists, and we're commenting on it because there were women all over the country, by the way, that will say things like, my body, my choice, who cares?
Oh, yeah.
And you know what?
It's escalating down to other things like plan B. People pop in plan B is like candy now.
This stuff is not being taken seriously.
And the bottom line is: whether you support abortion or not, this is a serious matter.
Answering Taylor's Emotional Question 00:08:16
And the fact that we have women out there talking about it like a trip to the dentist, that is a problem that we need to acknowledge.
I have to say, I agree with that.
I don't think that the way they spoke about it did them any credit at all.
And I think it actually, if I was somebody who was against abortion, that would have really enraged me to see people who have access to free and fair abortions because they're in a country where it's fine.
But they talk about it in such a glib manner.
I don't like it.
Let's just change gears to something else, which is just struck me as a bit odd.
So I think Taylor said earlier that, you know, women about Charlie Saron, women don't get paid as much as men.
In fact, it's just been revealed by the Hollywood reporter, the Hollywood Bible, that the biggest grossing movie star ever is Scarlett Johansson, which I'm told, staggering though that may seem, and I'm a bit surprised myself because I've appeared in 10 movies as myself, and those movies have grossed $2.4 billion.
So I'm a little surprised I'm not in the mix myself.
However, she's bigger than Tom Cruise, bigger than Stallone, bigger than Schwarzenegger, bigger than all of them.
And the reason apparently is the Avenger.
She's been in the whole Avengers stuff, which obviously, and Jurassic Park and other huge grossing films.
But she's moaning as obviously, you know, when you get an accolade like this, the first thing to do is to complain about it.
That she's often been cast a sexist reasons.
So, Andrew, I'll come to you on this.
When promoting, I think, Jurassic Park, Jurassic Park rebirth movie came out this weekend.
So when I was younger, a lot of the roles I was offered or I went for had their ambitions or character arcs revolving around their own desirability or the male gaze or a male-centered story.
That's less frequent, though.
Something has shifted.
I mean, this idea that we might go to the movies to look at beautiful people, that males may gaze at beautiful women.
Is this the most shocking bombshell of the week, Andrew?
It's not just that.
Like, how stupid to admit that out loud?
Basically, aren't you just admitting that you were a skank for money?
Like, if it was really a big deal, you're like, oh, okay, the male gaze, they're sexualizing me.
Why would you take the role then?
Just don't take the role.
But apparently, if it pays good enough, she must not mind too much about that whole male gaze thing, huh?
Because when it came time for her to collect those millions of dollars based on the male gaze, she definitely took the role.
So I would like her to give an explanation for that.
Male gay is bad, but I'd like to contribute to it as much as possible for money.
Aren't you just basically admitting that you're a Hollywood prostitute at that point?
Like, if it's a conflict with your values, aren't you selling out for money, literally?
Well, Taylor, your eyebrows just nearly exploded.
So clearly, you don't agree with that.
I think it's just shocking the disgusting, misogynistic way that Andrew can't help but talk about women.
I mean, I would say also by a woman.
No, women generally.
No, no, I'm sorry.
It's not a monolith.
If I can critique a woman, that's not critiquing all women.
All live the whole pop, the whole show.
Oh, no, no.
These lives.
These lips are not all women.
Oh, my God.
It's so crazy.
Oh, let's try to live, lady.
Everyone that doesn't lie, you don't have to.
You just don't happen to be liberal on every social policy, but you're not going to be able to do that.
Liberals are hardly where I'm at on social issues.
Anyway, my point is, is that Charlie's sorry, Scarlett Johansson.
Piers, I don't know that I would classify that quote as moaning.
What she seems to be talking about is just how her roles have changed over time.
I would note that overwhelmingly, women are paid less than men, even though the highest actress might be paid, that might be paid as a woman.
But I think that she's what she's saying is it's not a myth that women are paid less.
I'm sorry.
Is there a pay myth?
Equal pay myth that we can, I mean, that's a whole separate conversation.
I think in Hollywood now, it's pretty well equal pay, isn't it?
If you get the big roles, I don't think in music, most of the biggest stars now are currently women, aren't they?
Beyonce, Taylor Swift.
I mean, if you, I don't know, I can't think of many industries where women are not actually paid at least.
Just because there are a few very high-paid women in entertainment industries doesn't mean that high, that women across the board make more than men.
And when you look at other industries like finance or tech or some of these other tailor business nonsense, that's because of choices that women make.
That's because of the number of hours that they work.
That's because women take the product leave.
That's because guys work more hours and work harder.
There's a whole bunch of reasons we can get into that early time.
We actually can adjust pretty easily.
Can I make a comment about Scarlett, though, here for a second?
Because I think what's interesting here is that, listen, she chose, she made all of her money being a sex symbol, right?
We could all, she always had the boobs out.
That's how she made her money.
She made the decision to accept roles where, yes, she was, you know, part of the male gaze.
And that's how she made her fame.
I find it really interesting, honestly, that she turns 40.
She's older.
And now all of a sudden she decides, oh, I'm going to negate all that.
Could it be that maybe she's, you know, the male gaze isn't looking at her.
She's not getting those roles anymore.
And she's now realizing there's a younger woman on the block.
There's a hotter woman on the block.
Okay, I'm not getting those roles.
And is that, by the way, to complete all by myself?
To complete the conspiracy theory, is that why Charlie Saron at the age of 50 has gone out doing podcasts talking about banging 26-year-old guys?
Could that be why?
Is it to make Hollywood think I'm still hot and desirable?
I've still got it.
I've still got it.
I've still got the young male gay.
Of course, because there is an insecurity.
I mean, women don't like to talk about this, but there is an insecurity that arises in women, particularly in a beauty-driven industry.
Hollywood is all about looks.
It's all about the female gaze.
It's misogyny that puts that pressure on that hatred of women.
Taylor, do you know what misogyny means?
It means hatred of women.
It is not hatred of women to talk about the reality that women.
I'm a woman.
I'm not a misogynist.
Women get more insecure as they age about their looks when they're in a beauty-driven industry.
That's why Botox exists.
That's why killer exists.
Well, let me go to the expert on the panel when it comes to male gazes at beautiful women.
Ernest, your thoughts on this?
No, I mean, to be honest, I think that two things can be true at the same time.
You know, people have the right to evolve and also see things reflectively.
What you do in your young age, I mean, heaven forbids.
I mean, you all claim that you all don't support council culture, but you know, a lot of you all would make the case that maybe she did at one point in time when she was younger, may have thought that's what she needs to do and that's how she got her career.
But maybe years later, she can get older and reflect and say, hey, some of the stuff I did back then.
By the way, Ernest, it's the same.
It's the same with men, right?
I mean, it's the same with male movie stars.
When they cross the point where the female gaze moves from them to a younger, hotter model.
It's exactly the same the other way around.
You look at it all the time.
Look at the hot movie male stars of 20 years ago.
They're not there anymore.
Right.
But the difference is, though, with those roles, that's actually not true all the way.
A lot of these older men do get the evolve and date younger women.
What we don't see that much in Hollywood stars.
No, I mean, female moviegoers going to see male movie stars.
The reason they go moves from the female gaze at a hot young movie star to something different when they get older, right?
So it's in other words, it works the same way.
They can get a range.
What I think that happened with Charlene Scarlett, I mean, Scarlett Johansson, a lot of these actresses, is that what you'll see with men is that they can do both.
They can do the Oscar-winning Leonardo Caprio films, and they can also do the sex symbol films.
They can also do it simultaneously and still get the awards.
Versus what we see with women in Hollywood, it seems to be a double standard where prestige films that they can be in and star in, oftentimes they don't get the chance to be the ingenue or play into the sex role.
But if they do go that way, they can't have both ways.
So Denzel could be both, but Scarlett Johansson couldn't do both.
Most of that.
Targeting Andrew for Sexism Claims 00:15:27
Okay, but why?
Okay, but why would you complain then?
Why would you complain and say, oh, the male gauge is so terrible, and then take the role as a woman?
Why would you take the role if the male complaining?
Hang on.
I just hang on.
Hang on.
Let me answer the question.
Why is it that if you really saw this as a problem from a feminist view, the male gauge as a female actress who's aspiring, why would you take the role?
Aren't you just selling out for money, dude?
I mean, I'm not the one.
I'm not a woman, so I'm not the one taking the role, but I'm saying something like I was saying before.
See how they don't answer any questions?
It just refuses to be aware of that.
I'm answering your question.
What I'm saying is that you, at the end of the day, it's, it's, it's, none of these things, like even the way that people vote for certain elected officials, it's never one size fit all.
She has survival.
She wanted to get her career.
She wanted to do certain things.
Does she have regrets?
I don't know.
But what I will say is there's a lot of factors that people do when they make their decisions, right?
There's certain people where you don't agree with everything on all aspects, but you do some.
And I think at a certain point, it just seems Ernest.
I hear what you're saying, Ernest.
It just seems a little convenient, though.
It just seems a little convenient to make all of your money, all of your money off of being a sex symbol and an overt sex symbol.
I mean, half naked, this, that.
You make all your money that way.
You should own it.
You should cut.
She should be coming out and I totally agree.
I think that the women I admire in the entertainment world are the ones who are smart, but are unafraid to say, I use my sex appeal and it makes me tons of money, as well as my smarts, as well as my talent.
It's a whole package.
Same with the guys.
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Right.
If you're a hot movie star who's got talent, you're going to make more money than an ugly one.
It's as simple as that.
It's not fair.
Life isn't fair.
Hollywood's not fair.
I want to end.
This was a bizarre moment last week in the House of Commons here in the United Kingdom.
So just for background, we have a woman called Rachel Reids who is the first female Chancellor of the Exchequer.
So the second most powerful person in the British government, the treasurer, if you like, of the United Kingdom.
And she did the one thing which I guess most women who had voted for her would have wished she hadn't done, which is that the weekly prime minister's questions with Sakir Starmer, the prime minister, she was openly crying.
in the background.
Now, this followed a very bad week for the government, very bad week for her.
One of the signature policies had to perform a big U-turn on.
She apparently been seen having a blazing row with some colleagues and with the speaker of the house.
She then came out the next day, grinning like a Cheshire cat, a little too much for my credible belief, and said that there was a personal issue going on, details of which have not emerged.
And I suspect they won't.
Andrew, the problem I have with this is that I think a lot of women will have felt let down, that you finally get a female Chancellor of the Exchequer, and within a few months, she's crying in the most high-profile televised moment of each week in the House of Commons.
And it looks like it's just because she had a bad week.
Well, gee, who could have predicted this?
Who could have predicted that women who are in positions of power may act overtly emotional just based on, well, even the hormones in their body?
I am so stunned.
I'm shocked.
I can't believe that women everywhere are stunned and shocked that women, when they become very emotional, begin crying.
It's no shock to me, of course.
No shock to anybody else on the outside of your leadership.
Jennediah, as a woman.
All right, Jennediah, as a woman, are you comfortable with what you're hearing from Andrew there?
I actually am comfortable with it, to be completely honest, because the truth is that men and women are different and we are emotional.
And I kind of wear the fact that I have an emotional cycle that goes like this throughout the month, like we all do, like a badge of honor, because it's what makes me a woman.
You can't, the thing is, you can't be in a leadership leadership position and act like that.
As an example, do y'all remember John Boehner?
John Boehner was a disaster.
He was always crying.
So this is not exclusive to women.
Let's just say that this can be.
I totally agree.
If this had been, I mean, I think if it had been a man, a male Chancellor of the Exchequer crying, he'd have got whacked even more.
Well, that's the difference, because if you remember.
Our dean got ran out for a scream.
I mean, come on.
People were making fun of him all the time.
He was the laughing stock.
The difference is here, a lot of people jump and make excuses.
Well, she had a bad day.
Honestly, I don't care that you had a bad day.
You're in a leadership position.
I mean, the bond market had a sell-off because this woman was crying.
These have real ramifications.
So I think what Andrew's getting at is, listen, men, women are different.
And it does beg the question, if we are naturally more emotional, and we are by nature.
Women are not.
We are.
Well, they're not.
Listen, you're not.
All right, Taylor.
Taylor, I have a question for you.
Taylor, if Donald Trump, if Donald Trump's bottom lip began to tremble and he started crying on national TV in when he was addressing the Congress or something, I mean, come on, you'd absolutely murder him.
He's having tantrum tantrums every week.
He's having emotional motivations.
He's crying.
He isn't crying.
That's not the same thing.
Have you ever seen Donald Trump cry in public?
Okay, I'm not talking about crying.
Listen, here's the thing.
Andrew does not like women having any type of emotion outside of nodding their head.
What are you talking about?
He didn't actually say that.
He said that he said, women, Ernest, Ernest, hang on, hang on.
He didn't actually say that.
Hang on, hang on.
Hang on.
Hang on.
Stop talking, Ernest.
Ernest.
I'm acting like Andrew.
Ernest.
Stop talking from emotion.
All Andrew said was women are more emotional.
He wasn't surprised, right?
He wasn't sort of damning women for being emotional.
Just said they are more emotional.
Do you dispute that?
Yeah well and, and she, she actually said.
She actually said no, they're not.
How would you ever even dispute this?
It's.
It's objectively true that the the hormone functions that are inside of women are different than the ones that are inside of men.
That is objectively true.
And, in general, can you point to some women who are more hang on?
Can you point to an outlier some women?
I'm almost done.
I'm almost done, calm down, calm down.
Can you point to some women?
Can you point to some women and say that they're more emotionally stable?
Sure, but on average, women have far more emotional regularity than men do.
In fact, they have one time of the heart.
Are you, Taylor?
Would you say you're more emotional than your male colleagues when you work in with men?
Oh gosh, i've worked with some.
I've worked with men that have cried in my arms and I it's so funny for Andrew to say this as Andrew's men that is losing his mind on this panel, screaming and shouting and making fun and doing all these screamed and shouted at anybody.
What are you talking about?
Do you think that, like if you just assert lies that people who watch this aren't going to be able to see that they're clearly lies right now shouting over me.
Listen to this.
This is crazy.
I've asked.
That's not shouting.
That's not.
Well, let me ask you, I think those two deerings are hurting your brain, lady.
We can do.
We can do this for a second woman to woman, because I will say to you, Taylor there is, Andrew speaks, therefore shouting.
There is no question about it that when you look at Taylor, when you look at a man, his testosterone is pretty, pretty steady.
His his, whether you like it or not, his hormones are steady.
That's what comprises a man.
When you look at our hormones, they do this naturally.
That's why we have a cycle, that's why we have the beautiful gift of being able to make babies.
That's what makes women women.
So yes, there can be an outlier over here and there.
John Boehner, I use the example of John Boehner, but it's it's very, very safe to say that, in general, women are more emotional than men, and that does beg the question.
Then, if women are in leadership roles where there are serious ramifications, like a bond market sell-off, if that woman is seen crying, is that a good look overall for the country?
The answer is no.
Now we can sit and have a debate over whether women should be in positions of power or not, but we can't have a debate over whether women are more emotional because hormonally that's just a factor, not not?
But her colleagues are crying in her arms though.
They're crying in her arms, I mean yeah, I had a colleague that cried after something horrific happened.
I mean what you said.
You said that i've had men.
You make it sound like men were coming to you and falling to pieces.
I've witnessed somebody die in front of my face at my job because i'm affected by emotional.
Yeah, I know it's so ridiculous.
Is it the case that you, when you work with other men, that you're generally more emotional than them, or not?
That's the question.
Listen to you crash out talking about, I don't know why you won't answer.
Why can't you answer?
That is, just answer it yeah, just yes or no.
You're crashing out.
Oh my god, you're crashing out.
I don't know how to answer questions.
I'm like god, just answer the question.
Lady talking about how women are more emotional as you are, are you more emotional than your male colleagues generally or not?
Can you answer yes or no?
That would be crazy.
Are we going to get on?
Are you ever going to answer the question the same?
I've answered it many, many times to say once, okay, so yes or no would be great.
You, you cannot, are you're like a little petulant, yes or no, yes or no?
Screaming and and making these silly voices screaming?
I'm, i'm holding you to account, me talking.
Is it yes or no?
an arraignment is yes or no i think it look at the example right here on this panel That is absolutely still not answering the question.
Lady, answer the question, lady.
See how you keep calling me lady.
You won't call me by my name because answer the question.
I don't remember your name.
Why am I supposed to remember your name?
Answer the question.
Anyway, this is crazy.
Women are not in your women are not in your environmentally angry.
Are you not hearing what she's saying?
All right, let me ask Taylor a different question.
Hang on, hang on, hang on, hang on.
I didn't ask her.
Taylor, in relation to Rachel Reeves crying in the House of Commons, did she let the sisterhood down?
Would it have been better for her to hold it?
No.
Ernest, you're not called Taylor.
Hold on.
Look at that.
They can answer questions.
Yes.
Listen to this man just screeching.
Anyway, I will say that everyone talking is screeching.
When you're talking, you're screeching.
Listen to this.
This guy thinks he's like...
Oh my God, ask God.
Clutch your pearls harder, lady.
Just answer the questions you ask.
It's so funny how you can take it.
Would you like me to mail you a pearl necklace so you can tug it when we're on the panel next time?
Oh, never.
I can't believe it.
Oh, how I treat it is so terrible.
Just answer the question.
Pierce, can I have okay?
Taylor, Taylor, answer my question, Taylor.
Yes, absolutely.
So I think that basically, generally, I take your point that any politician that shows emotion is often, or sadness, rather, like crying, is often stigmatized for it.
But women are to be clear, I think it depends on the circumstance, right?
So if there was a terrible, if there was a terrible event and a prime minister or a chancellor came out and got emotional talking about a terrible national tragedy, of course, no one's going to ever think anything other than that's a human emotion.
I think the feeling here was that things had just got on top of her.
It had been a bad week at work.
She'd had a few rows before she came out and she just lost it in public.
And it was that that upset other women in particular.
Wait, come on, you're the first female chancellor.
Don't do this to us.
Well, because again, women are held to this really, really intense standard.
And so, yes, any sort of display of emotion like that is going to be weaponized against them by people like this, this man or whatever who's on the panel who can't stop shouting.
But I will say that, you know, this idea that male leaders are not emotional.
Here he is talking over me right now.
I mean, you can't help but talk about me every five seconds.
Like, what do you want me to say?
I want you to say that.
You can't reference me and then say I'm not allowed to do that.
Taylor, women, Taylor, to reference something that you said.
Taylor, to reference something that you said, I want to hear Taylor answer the question.
Taylor.
Thank you, Pierce.
To finish my point, I will say that men, this idea that male leaders aren't emotional, I think it's just completely wrong because I think they're emotional in different ways.
Society stigmatizes different forms of emotion in man.
The way that a lot of men express their emotion as political leaders is anger.
And what Ernest was talking about earlier of Donald Trump being erratic, irrational, emotional, he is extremely emotional.
We have plenty of male leaders who are highly emotional and they might not be crying, but I would say that their very intense emotions do have significant political and economic consequences.
So I think it's good to destigmatize emotion, but let's not like there's not sexism here.
And let's also, let's also give you credit, Taylor, you've probably had a harder time from Andrew Wilson in the last than Rachel Reeves got from her colleagues and you haven't cried.
So I think that should be acknowledged.
I'm here.
Well, I mean, give me another hour.
Please, you just whine and whine and whine.
You know what?
So I just, the whole thing is like, you can see, even on this panel, holding women accountable is basically impossible.
They don't even answer questions.
Like we asked this lady, I don't know how many questions and she answers every question except the one we ask her, just reframes the entire debate every time.
You would have had a way less hard, you would, it would have been way less hard for you if you would have just actually answered anything we asked.
Simply cannot you'll note, by the way, you'll note how he speaks to me.
He doesn't give me the courtesy of speaking with my name.
He's been mocking you called me this man.
What are you talking about?
Yeah.
Yeah, what do you mean?
Am I, am I, am I going, oh my God, she called me this man.
Oh, there's a disrespectful disrespectful voice.
It's really something to watch.
And I think when we're talking about emotion and we have a man on this very panel who can't help but do these strange little voices and interrupt every two seconds and get mad that he's not interesting.
Can I just say what I find interesting?
What I find interesting about this panel is that Taylor, you chose, to be honest, you chose to talk about sexism and to say, well, women have, you know, an unfair advantage in this and they're stigmatized in that and to go after Andrew.
When in fact, I've been saying a lot of the same things that he's been talking about.
I'm saying that.
You chose to make it about sexism.
You chose to say because it's an easy target.
Hold on a second.
Because he's doing it from the target.
Respecting Disagreement Over Disrespect 00:02:13
Ma'am, ma'am, you are not.
But it's an easy target.
It's an easy target to say the man on the panel.
The bottom line is that women are going to be treated as an equal to a man.
If you want to be treated as an equal to a man, then it can't always be sexism this or misogyny.
Nobody's saying that all the women on this condition are sexist.
They're saying that this guy, Andrew, will not trope.
Hold on, let me know.
I wouldn't say this.
It's destigmatize emotion, except Andrew.
Instead of crying sexism, just answer the questions, right?
We can as women.
Here comes the time policing.
It's not about gender because there's three men on this panel.
It's about approach.
None of us have called Taylor on his panel.
None of us are berating her.
You see how he's disrespecting me?
And I have even win.
But what I'm saying to you, Ernest, listen, as a woman, I'm saying to you, as a woman, instead of crying sexism, I'm not going to sit here and cry sexism or cry misogyny when somebody comes at me.
I'm going to answer questions and I'm going to come back to the map.
That's all I'm saying.
You've aligned yourself with Andrew.
Hold on.
So let me say this.
I'm not aligning myself with anyone.
I gave you my opinion.
And that's why you will never say sexism because the men, the other men on this panel agree with you.
I don't, I don't agree with you on a lot of points, but I'm respecting you.
That's why you can't say sexism.
The other two men, Pierce disagrees with Taylor, but Pierce is not disrespecting Taylor and she's not calling him sexist because Andrew can defend himself.
It's disrespectful to purposely obfuscate and avoid the questions you're being asked.
That is not respect.
That is a form of the greatest form of disrespect, not tone, dude.
Refusing to answer the questions you're asked.
That's what's disrespectful.
And doing all of these silly little voices and refusing to call me by my name and just by basically throwing a little temper tantrum at the end of the day.
Why don't we sign in on a happy note?
I want Andrew and Taylor to end by saying something nice about each other to each other.
Andrew, you go first.
Something nice about Taylor.
That's something nice.
Asking for Something Nice 00:01:15
He's alive.
He's alive.
Andrew, something nice about Taylor.
Well, I mean, it doesn't look like she's going bald.
I think that that's good.
Taylor, something nice about that.
A lot of women in that age bracket.
A lot of women in that age bracket go bald.
I don't know what the deal is.
Maybe it's all plastic.
I don't know.
I can't say the same thing for Andrew's hairline, but I guess he has a nice...
It's nicer than your hairline.
Come on, Taylor.
One compliment.
Nicer than your hairline.
Well, now here he is negating what he just said about my hair.
Pierce, I don't think Andrew is capable of saying something exactly.
You can rise to a higher place, Taylor.
Say something nice about him.
I said I liked his shirt.
I think he's got a nice shirt on, and that is really on that happy note.
We will leave it.
Thank you all very much.
Thank you, Pierce.
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independent on censor media has never been more critical and we couldn't do it Without you.
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