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July 7, 2025 - Uncensored - Piers Morgan
01:15:04
20250707_trump-is-on-that-list-epstein-files-vanish-idaho-m
Transcriber: nvidia/parakeet-tdt-0.6b-v2, sat-12l-sm, and large-v3-turbo
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Trump Hiding Epstein Files 00:10:41
Why is it that Donald Trump didn't threaten to sue Elon Musk when Elon Musk said that Trump was all over the Epstein files?
The CIA said there was no torture program.
That was a lie.
No international renditions.
That was a lie.
No secret prisons.
That was a lie.
I think people probably at a lower level destroyed whatever they could destroy and let the lie go up to the very top and hope that this whole thing just goes away.
The reality is the people at the top, like Pam Bondi, were the ones saying they had the list sitting on their desk.
We get handed these binders, and then before we even have a chance to look into them, we're hauled out actually in front of the cameras.
Lo and behold, we find out that it's all information that was completely already in the public domain.
Two Iranian Ayatollahs have issued fatwas against Donald Trump.
First, I don't understand why you should give a platform to such a leader.
You know, if you go back in history, you should ask yourself, you know, in the sake of journalism, would you interview anyone?
Steve, how do you feel about this monster, Coburg?
He's trash.
He's absolute trash.
And I'm coming for him.
Well, the so-called Epstein files have been a huge saga in U.S. politics.
Today, the administration tried to bring that saga to an end.
The FBI and Justice Department say there is no evidence of an Epstein client list, no evidence he blackmailed powerful figures, and no evidence his death was caused by anybody other than himself.
They released this video to show he was always alone in his cell.
The two men now running the FBI, Kash Patel and Dan Bongino, both entertained alternative theories about Epstein's death before taking office, and they angered their supporters when they said this.
You know a suicide when you see one, and that's what that was.
He killed himself.
Again, you want me to get...
I've seen the whole file.
Well, the Epstein saga became a saga for good reasons.
It's not just that it's a salacious conspiracy, although it undoubtedly is.
A millionaire financially with friends in very high places whose systematic abuse was covered up and whose justice was curtailed by his suicide in what should have been a maximum security jail.
It's no wonder people speculate.
But it also gets to the heart of a deeper problem that MAGA conservatives wanted Trump to solve and believe that he would.
They don't trust their institutions.
They don't believe that the people in charge of the country are honest about their motives and their means.
This was Congresswoman Anna Paulina Luna, who's overseeing a task force on declassifying federal secrets.
What we found in the last couple of weeks and what's definitely apparent is there's absolutely a war taking place in the intelligence agencies, right?
We saw the CIA was reporting that they're worried about their own people leaking secrets to foreign countries.
And we were also notified last week that there was a whistleblower that came forward stating that there was evidence being destroyed at the FBI.
As soon as the FBI found out President Trump won the election, they started their deep state nonsense.
And so I have full faith in Kash Patel and A.G. Bondi to deliver those files, but I want to be very clear about something.
The American people want the truth.
Well, the Attorney General Pam Bondi is under increasing pressure for botching what was intended to be an exhibition of the new administration's transparency.
First, she told Fox News that Epstein's client list was sitting on her desk.
Next, she handed out binders of information already in the public domain to conservative influencers who were visiting the White House, who were duped into claiming the Epstein files have been released.
Now the client list that was apparently sitting on her desk now apparently doesn't exist at all.
And what about the words of White House counselor and lawyer Alina Haber speaking on this show in February?
Incredibly disturbing.
We have flight logs.
We have information names that will come out.
Is it going to be shocking?
I don't see how it's not shocking that there were so many individuals that were hidden and kept secret and not been held accountable.
Let's talk about the reverse.
I believe in accountability.
So you have to now go through your process.
Now, I won't say they're guilty until they go through their time in court.
But again, now it's time for accountability.
We have seen for so many years, Pierce, in this country, many investigations, subpoenas, testimonies in Congress, et cetera, et cetera.
But there's a general frustration with accountability.
We take it halfway.
We don't take it home.
And I really believe that now with Cash and Pam, there will be accountability.
So what happened?
Secret names, lists, accountability.
This is why the latest developments are likely to satisfy absolutely nobody.
It's entirely possible.
There was never anything more to know.
And it was all just used for political expediency.
If so, it's not working out to be very expedient.
We Brits have a phrase for situations like this.
Is it a cock-up or a conspiracy?
In this case, it might actually be both.
Well, joining me to debate this some more.
Jack Pasobik, who's the senior editor of Human Events and one of the influencers who was handed those non-event Epstein files.
John Kiriaku, who's a former CIA intelligence officer whistleblower, host to CIA Declassified on Unified TV.
Brian Shapiro, the host of Pushing the Limits, and Midas Touch commentator Adam Mokla.
Well, welcome to all of you.
Jack, let me start with you.
What has happened here?
I mean, we were all led down a train of thoughts that there was going to be all sorts of stuff coming out about this Epstein case, the files, the names, the lists, accountability, and then boom, it's all disappeared.
Yeah, Piers, I mean, this is, as we would say in the military, unsat, completely unsat from Attorney General Pam Bondi and this line about there being files that are currently under seal in some criminal case.
Well, then great.
Let's go and get those unsealed as soon as possible.
Look, I was brought to the White House under the pretense of a series of policy briefings that were going to be held, not just from the AG, but from we had the vice president came in, the president came in, Bobby Kennedy came in.
So we had a rotating series of people from the administration, Marco Rubio, the Secretary of State.
And then nobody told us prior to this that the Epstein files would be anywhere even on the agenda for that day.
And it was really sprung as a surprise to all of us.
We get handed these binders.
And then before we even have a chance to look into them, we're hauled out actually in front of the cameras that were all there because Prime Minister Kier Stahmer was visiting the White House that day.
And oh, it just so happened that they were all in front of the West Wing.
And by the time that we have the ability to actually go through them, well, lo and behold, we find out that it's all information that was completely already in the public domain.
In fact, some of the information that was in the public domain was more extensive than what was given to us on that day.
So the whole thing, obviously, I think, as you say, is a cock-up.
I hope I'm using that phrase correctly.
I'm not entirely familiar with it.
But that certainly feels like what happened here.
And we don't have the accountability that was spoken of.
We don't have the releases that were spoken of.
And it's just, it's indefensible.
It's indefensible that the answers aren't there when so much was promised.
Brian Shapiro, I mean, look, it's perfectly possible.
Indeed, it looks increasingly likely that Epstein did indeed just commit suicide.
What is not perfectly possible to my cynical eye about this is that he was the only person other than Gill A. Maxwell, who's been imprisoned, who was ever up to criminal activity on his island and other places.
It just stretches credulity.
But nobody, it seems, is ever going to be held accountable other than him who evaded accountability by dying, killing himself, or Gill A. Maxwell, a woman.
So none of these other men who were linked to this are ever going to be even remotely held accountable.
It's just disappeared.
Yeah.
Well, what I would say, Pierce, first of all, when Haba did your show, where did she get that information from?
Where did that come from back in February?
I would also say to Pam Bondi, she lied on Fox News, or maybe she was telling the truth.
She said she had a list that was on her desk, Pierce.
Where did that list go?
Was she lying?
Was that made up?
And I'd also say, thirdly, and I know this is something that Jack probably doesn't want to bring up, but the fact of the matter is that Jeffrey Epstein's on audio saying at one point Donald Trump was his best friend.
We also know that Donald Trump was on the Epstein flight log seven times.
We learned that in the Maxwell case.
So I don't think it's a stretch to say maybe Donald Trump might be somewhere in these files.
Maybe.
We don't know that for sure, but I know if it was the other way around and if it was Joe Biden that was best friends with Jeffrey Epstein at one point, that's all Jack and MAGA Republicans would be talking about.
I think Donald Trump is on this list and I think Donald Trump is in these files and I think the Trump administration is hiding something.
I mean what is extraordinary, I think, Brian, is that it all seems to have gone incredibly quiet from the moment Elon Musk started dragging Trump's name into the Epstein case when they fell out in posts on his ex-platform.
And he's carried on overnight doing more posts, not directly linking the president, but saying what the hell has happened here effectively.
But he was the one that ignited the Trump link again.
You know, you do wonder, is that involved here?
Yes, Trump basically thought this is just going to be a lot of bad publicity here.
Let's just get rid of him.
Yeah, well, I'll say this, Pierce.
You know, anytime somebody says something about Donald Trump that might not be true, Trump always threatens a lawsuit.
Why is it that Donald Trump didn't threaten to sue Elon Musk when Elon Musk said that Trump was all over the Epstein files?
I find that to be very, very interesting.
You know, Bill Maher could call Donald Trump the son of an orangutan, and then Trump will file a lawsuit about that.
Why wouldn't he file a lawsuit against Elon?
Maybe Elon is telling the truth and maybe Elon knows some things that the general public does not know.
I tend to believe Elon on this one.
It's certainly intriguing.
John Kiriaku, what do you think has happened here?
I mean, Epstein, you know, one of the most infamous cases of the last 20 years of the century, arguably.
So many famous, powerful, rich people whose names were dragged into this and were clearly in attendance at his parties and on his island and so on.
And yet here, now suddenly, having led the media around the world into a lava of excitement about it's all going to come out and you're going to get all the details.
Musk's Damning Third Party Phase 00:15:29
Now, bang, it's just been shelved.
What do you make of it?
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Well, based on my own experience at the CIA, there's very little daylight between the CIA and the FBI.
You know, the CIA said there was no torture program.
That was a lie.
No international renditions.
That was a lie.
No secret prisons.
That was a lie.
MK Ultra documents were all released.
That was a lie.
The CIA didn't try to recruit Oswald.
That's a lie.
These organizations that make up the so-called deep state, and we can have that debate whether or not you want to call it the deep state.
But they all lie.
They're trained to lie.
And so I don't even think that we should blame the likes of Kash Patel and Dan Bongino.
I think people probably at a lower level destroyed whatever they could destroy and let the lie go up to the very top and hope that this whole thing just goes away.
If there are no documents to implicate famous people, then it'll eventually go quiet.
And my guess is in 30 years or 50 years or whenever it's going to be, at least some of the truth will probably be released.
Adam Mokla, I mean, it does stick in the gullet, doesn't it?
That the only person to go to prison and the whole Epstein scandal is a woman.
Yeah, well, John said he thinks the people at the bottom might have destroyed the evidence, but the reality is the people at the top, like Pam Bondi, were the ones saying they had the list sitting on their desk.
So it seems like that deep state you referred to, the party that promised to defeat the deep state, very quickly became the deep state.
Here's the timeline in my eyes.
Pam Bondi says, I have the list on my desk right here.
They're rather silent for a few months.
Then Elon Musk says Trump is in the Epstein list.
Then within weeks, apparently the list is gone.
I mean, I'm looking at this photo of Jack Basobiak holding up the Epstein files.
It says the Epstein files, phase one.
But where's phase two?
There's no phase two.
So I'm happy that influencers like Jack are admitting they were conned by the admin to cover up the sexual abuse of children.
Yeah, Jack, I mean, do you feel angry?
Do you feel you were used in some way?
Well, it's very upsetting.
It's extremely upsetting to be brought in something like this, to think that you're going into a situation where, hey, we're finally going to get some of these answers that we all want.
Because at the end of the day, this is all about getting justice for the victims here, the actual victims.
And I keep going back and looking over the different pieces of this story.
You know, what was Prince Andrew disgraced for?
Why did he go up on this huge interview and then lose all of his titles and all that?
And he's losing his security now, I hear.
And, you know, why did we go all the way around?
You know, name after name after name.
But at the end of the day, it's actually about the victims.
And do you really mean to tell me that all of those victims were questioned and all of the things that they said were investigated and were run down?
Because it just doesn't really feel like that's been done here.
It doesn't.
Talking of Elon Musk, Brian, just to bring you in again here.
So Musk is now simultaneous to all this, obviously this flame out with Trump is gathering momentum.
He's now announced the launch of a new political party, the America Party.
You know, third parties have had, you know, a few instances in modern American history.
They never tend to get very far, but we've never had the richest and most successful businessman in history launching one who's got $300 billion and happens to own one of the biggest social media platforms on which he has 200 million followers.
He's not just your average third party guy, is he?
How interesting is this?
And how damaging could this be, particularly to Donald Trump and the Republicans?
I think it certainly hurts Republicans and Donald Trump more than Democrats.
But I would also say what you mentioned, this is the richest man in the world.
With money comes a lot of power.
This has been tried in the past many a times, but it hasn't been tried with someone with the money and the power that Elon Musk has.
But I think the question we need to ask ourselves now is: is this just another phase that Elon Musk is going through?
And then when this blows over, if it ever does, between him and Donald Trump, will he just move on?
Or is he really truly serious about this?
You know, there are a lot of people that didn't think that he was ever going to buy Twitter, now X.
And he ended up doing that.
So, you know, will he do this?
Will he continue this?
And in six months from now, will we still be talking about this?
I would venture to guess, probably so.
It sounds to me like Elon Musk is serious, and this will be very damning, in my opinion, to plenty of MAGA Republicans out there.
Yeah, and Adam, you know, what this all seems to center around is he was brought in, obviously, to run Doge to reduce government overspending and waste.
And at the same time, Trump was launching the big beautiful bill, which many people think is going to add trillions to the debt.
The two were clearly incompatible bedfellows, and that's led to Musk going.
Now, Trump talks about EV car mandates being one of the catalysts for the falling out or whatever.
But it's probably as simple as one person wanted to slash government spending and the other one wanted to bring in policies which are highly likely, certainly in the short to midterm, to increase the national spending and debt.
So there's the clash.
How serious do you think this is going to get?
I don't think you should understate the extent to which Jared Isaacman, the NASA candidate, being slashed, also pissed Elon Musk off.
He was really mad about Jared Isaacman.
What I find funny about all of this is that Elon Musk is now leveraging the same mechanisms that he used to get Trump elected just a few months ago to now start a third party designed to undermine Trump's coalition.
So the attention economy that he has with Twitter, he's going to leverage that.
The vast wealth, he's going to leverage that.
As to the question of how serious this is, I actually disagree with Brian.
I think in six months, Elon will be on to the next thing.
He doesn't seem to have the steady hand needed in politics to carry through a long-term agenda.
And we saw that with Doge.
Well, there might be another reason, which is that shares in Tesla are tanking down 7%, I think, at the start of regular trading today.
Now, that might just be a market reaction.
It may recover, but certainly recent numbers for Tesla have not been good.
John, what do you think of this?
I mean, it's not an intelligence issue, but as an American, what do you feel about now that the potential for a third party by somebody who's actually got the means to make it significant?
Well, it wasn't too long ago that Ross Perot was able to buy 30-minute blocks on literally every network to promote his own candidacy and got something like 19%, which was very, very respectable for an independent presidential candidate.
But it didn't lead to anything.
With Elon Musk, there's nothing behind it but money.
There's nobody running in the state legislatures.
Nobody running for Congress and whatever it's called, the American Party or some silly name like that.
There's nobody running for the local school board or the water commission that's going to be the roots of this new party.
I think that this is just kind of a vanity project.
And I have to agree that I think in six months, some shiny object is going to distract Elon Musk and we're not going to even hear about this party anymore.
Jack, what do you feel about this?
A lot of people on the MAGA side of Trump's support were pretty dubious about Elon Musk to start with.
You know, a lot of them thought, well, this guy was a Democrat and now he's come over and maybe he's just trying to buy his way into power, get Trump elected and use that to benefit all his companies, which obviously do benefit and have benefited from that association.
But now it's gone the other way, and he's clearly trying to punish Trump and punish Republicans in launching this third party.
What do you feel about the politics going on here?
Well, I think the politics that everyone said, and I broadly agree with everyone's take so far on here, I think this is a way to put leverage on President Trump, to put leverage on the party as we go towards the elections and then determining the swing of things.
Because look, people are saying, what about the presidential race and Ross Perot?
And certainly with the tight margins that we saw in the seven swing states, you could play a role there.
But look at the midterms right now.
With congressional majority in the House being as small as it is, you would only need to flip a couple of seats, run a couple of spoiler candidates in a few of those tight races, and you could easily flip the House one way or the other.
So what it does is right now today is buy him much more leverage than he even had before.
And he can do that without even running a single candidate anywhere.
And I think he'd be much more successful with a project like this at the state level, at the House level, and at the Senate level than at the presidential level.
And he can do so quite immediately.
I mean, obviously, you've got a massive clash of two gigantic egos here and people used to getting their own way.
Do you think I can't see them really making up from this?
I mean, Trump called him a train wreck last night.
Elon's been hammering away, dismissing his big, beautiful bill as a total disaster that will bankrupt the country.
It's very hard to see how they make up here, isn't it, Jack?
Well, I would say never count anything out.
I mean, you've seen President Trump be able to make friends or allies of rivals in the past, and he certainly has the ability to do so, sometimes even against the wishes of MAGA.
But, you know, that's certainly his prerogative for Elon.
You know, absolutely.
He's got a track record of moving from one thing to the other.
But if he sees perhaps a path forward from a business perspective, look, keep in mind, he's still got to deal with the government in terms of a lot of the contracts for his companies, in terms of the Department of Defense, in terms of NASA, in terms of Tesla.
So he's going to need a lot of this going forward.
And I think whether they like it or not, they're stuck together.
He was friends with Epstein.
He'll be friends with Elon.
What was that?
He was friends with Epstein.
I'm sure he can be friends with Elon Musk.
He actually helped Epstein be prosecuted.
He was the only person who was involved, kicked him out of the Epstein.
You know all this.
Like it's just a very whole little bit of a.
Have you heard of Alexander Acosta?
You're like, oh, I got it.
Look at me.
Like, I'm the guy from Third Office.
Do you know who Alexander Acosta is?
No.
You were duped to cover up sexual abuse.
Donald Trump was dropped him out of his of Mar-a-Lago.
Donald Trump was the only one who went to investigators and said, I will be able to do that.
Pierce, do you know who Alexander Acosta has been litigated amazingly times?
First of all, can I just...
Well, Brian, I'll come to you.
But Adam, just explain what you're talking about.
Yeah, really quickly, Alexander Acosta was a Florida district attorney.
You could look this up.
He knew both Trump and Epstein.
He was appointed as a Secretary of Labor under Trump and had to resign in 2017 because people found out that he mishandled the Epstein case in 2007 and let Epstein get an illegal plea deal.
Epstein was then able to go reoffend and Trump appointed him in 2017.
So I don't want to hear the dude that was brought to the White House to cover up sexual abuse saying that there was like, what are you trying to say here?
Yeah.
You got to wipe your face.
Can you just wipe that little thing off your face there a little bit?
You got a little mud on your face.
You have no point.
Hold on a second.
No point.
Can I add something?
First of all, I hear the MAGA.
I hear the MAGA bullshit detector going off every single time Jack opens his mouth.
First of all, people like Jack were the people who called Joe Biden a pedophile for sniffing hair.
But yet we have Jeffrey Epstein on tape calling Donald Trump his best friend.
They were hanging out together constantly.
I've spoken to Jeffrey Epstein's brother many times.
They were very close.
I'm not done yet.
Jack here is like we can go through all this again, but Pierce, I know you've done it.
I'm not done yet.
I didn't interrupt you.
John Real reporter on this.
These guys just want to talk politics.
I'm trying to be serious here.
Jack.
Dude, you were at the White House in your hand.
Yeah, just talked about it.
Right.
Exactly, Jack.
Jack, just you want to defend Donald Trump and wear the Donald Trump knee pads 24-7, but when it comes to a Democrat, they're all pedophiles.
But if Donald Trump is actually hanging out with Jeffrey Epstein in his face, do you have like any evidence?
Do you have like a source on that, bro?
No, because the payment was released.
Actually, yeah, I do.
The Maxwell trial, where it was learned that he was on the Epstein flight.
Why don't you listen?
It was in the trial, in the Maxwell trial, that he was on the flight log seven times.
We have Jeffrey Epstein on audio calling him his best friend.
So here's my question to Jack.
Jack, Jeffrey Epstein was on audio.
And how many times did Jeffrey Epstein say to me?
He was one of these people.
That's called what about is the Sunday Institute.
I don't defend it.
Jack, Jack, if Jeffrey Epstein was on audio saying that Joe Biden was his best friend, that wouldn't concern you at all.
All you do is reflect and you talk about other people.
Do you guys have anything new?
Do you have any questions?
But my line about the Epstein circle of famous friends is to me that there's a clear line before his initial conviction, which was a complete stitch-up in his favor.
No question of that.
Jack, why won't they release the files then?
Well, hang on, hang on, Brian.
Hang on, Brian.
The point I'm going to make is, I do think if you continue to be a friend of Epstein, knowing he was a convicted pedophile after whatever it was, 2009 or so, as Prince Andrew did, for example, then I'm afraid that is seriously problematic.
For those who were in his circle, a wide circle of well-known people from Bill Gates to Trump to all these Bill Clinton, he hooked in everybody, but a lot of them had nothing to do with him, including Trump, I believe, after that conviction.
But if you carried on seeing him as Andrew did, living at his house for a few days years later, knowing he was a convicted pedophile, that is different.
I mean, do we agree?
Yeah.
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Closing Ranks on Deportation 00:14:44
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I think that's all about the.
I certainly agree with what you're saying, Pierce, and your point there.
But the point that I'm trying to make is there has to be a reason why they're not releasing the files.
Why are they being so mum?
Why is the list just magically disappeared?
And I think one can come to a very logical conclusion, unless you're Jack and you defend Donald Trump 24-7, that maybe there might be something to do with the fact that Trump might be in these files and there might be some wrongdoing there considering the fact that they were at one point best friends.
Well, they certainly were.
They've certainly gone as an administration from full bore, we're going to reveal everything, and it's really shocking and there's going to have to be accountability.
I mean, I had them on my show.
They've gone from that position to suddenly, no, there's nothing mysterious about his death.
He definitely killed himself.
Here's the CCTV footage.
And there is no client list.
And none of that is right.
And actually, you know what?
It's all over.
And it is odd.
I mean, John, again, John, you know, with your intelligence hat on, does this, I mean, do you smell a rat here?
Does this look like there's been a little bit of a closing of ranks to shut this up?
Yes, I do smell a rat.
And I'd like to know why no one in the media is talking about the investigation or the fact that there should have been an investigation into whether or not Jeffrey Epstein was working for a foreign intelligence service.
You know, let's say that.
So that's really interesting.
So look, you've studied into this.
What is the evidence that he might have been?
He is a textbook example of an access agent.
Like I said the last time I was on the show, Pierce, you're not going to recruit Bill Clinton.
You're not going to recruit Bill Gates.
You're not going to recruit Alan Dershowitz, but you can recruit someone who gets close to those people.
You can give them something that you can hold over their heads if you have to in the end.
And then you report back to your handlers everything that they say.
And in exchange, you get untold wealth and a house in the Caribbean and the biggest townhouse in Manhattan and a private plane.
And that's a pretty good life, especially if you're a pedophile and you enjoy doing things like that.
And nobody's talking about whether or not he was an access agent.
Yeah, I mean, that's really interesting.
I mean, does the intelligence community believe that there is merit to that suggestion?
Yes, it does.
It does.
But the problem here is the accusation is that he was an access agent for the Israelis.
And that's something that the intelligence community really doesn't like to touch.
Why?
Because we have this special relationship with Israel, not like a five-eyes relationship like we have with the UK, Canada, Australia, New Zealand, but this special relationship where we share so much, we provide so much, we work with the Israelis on issues all around the region, at least, around the world, and on a handful of issues.
Why upset the balance over one dead pedophile?
Isn't it easier just to cover it up?
Brian, what do you think of that?
I believe that Jeffrey Epstein surrounded himself with a lot of powerful people.
It is very, very possible that he could have been working for a government agency.
Very, very possible as well.
I would tend to agree with the fact that this needs to be investigated more.
The media needs to talk about it more.
And I don't think this is just a situation where Jeffrey Epstein was getting people to come on his island and sadly do horrible things to young girls.
I think there's a lot more to this story.
I think there's a lot of people hiding a lot of information.
So I certainly agree with what he just said.
I mean, Jack, one of the, I mean, one of the conspiracy theories I've seen online a lot in the last few days is it's not a coincidence that Netanyahu is coming to the White House, that he's been there, I think, three times in the last few months.
He has a much better relationship with Trump now than they did when he pissed Trump off by going to see Biden and so on.
And that suddenly the Epstein files disappear.
If you were working as a conspiracy theorist and you bought into the idea that he was some kind of agent for the Israelis, which is not completely implausible, given all the connections he had.
And no, has there been some tacit agreement with Netanyahu to get rid of this problem?
I mean, stranger things have happened.
I think the perception is horrible.
I think the perception is absolutely horrible and it puts a huge, huge onus on the entire administration and certainly coming from Pam Bondi for her mismanagement of this.
I want to go back to something that John was saying as well, but Ghelane Maxwell's father, Robert.
So Robert Maxwell is someone who's highly fingered in a lot of these conspiracies or a lot of these allegations.
His entire career, there were allegation after allegation that he was involved somehow with Israeli intelligence going all the way back even to the 1940s and serious questions about some of the work that he did all the way through this.
And then, of course, as it goes, she becomes the recruiter for Epstein.
And so these questions have really gone deeper and deeper and deeper.
And of course, there's no actual evidence or, you know, just a hearing of the evidence or release of the evidence, release of the file, a task force, even a press conference, you know, and instead we get, oh, well, we're just going to move on.
And here's a press release on a, you know, on a Sunday night when it's, you know, it's a holiday here in the U.S.
Yeah, it is.
I mean, Adam, it is just a bit weird.
The whole thing, I can't quite get my head around this because they were so emphatic that this was going to be huge.
And now it's nothing.
It's not like even mini huge.
It's nothing.
It's, there's nothing to see here.
Yeah, and to build on that, I can't tell if it would be worse if this was a cock-up or a conspiracy, because if it's a cock-up, that means they were straight up lying to the American people the entire time about what they actually had, right?
Or if it's a conspiracy, that means they have it and they hit it the entire time.
I mean, either way, it looks really bad on the administration.
And especially for an admin that is created as grounds that is like primed for conspiratorial thinking.
A lot of the MAGA influencers were super ready, super excited for the Epstein files to release.
So when you create the grounds that are perfect for conspiratorial thinking and then you pull back, there are going to be a lot of conspiracies about the admin now.
You know, John, it's a confusing time to be in MAGA, isn't it?
It must be, right?
Because there's so much going on, which must be quite bemusing.
You know, you're led up the hill of we're going to get all the dirt on Epstein.
That disappears.
You know, you've got the attack on Iran, which seems to fly in the face of everything Trump has said about foreign wars, foreign engagement, and so on.
You've got a kind of war at the center of the party.
You've got Elon Musk, who you were skeptical of, MAGA.
And then he's the hero suddenly and now he's the villain again.
This is not an easy time for MAGA to get their heads around the consistent theme here.
Oh, Piers, what are you talking about?
I love a fight.
I'm always ready for a fight.
And MAGA is always made of fighters.
So if we've got a fight, if we're coming, and by the way, Charlie Kirk is out there today saying that there's a huge push for amnesty of these, you know, the farm workers.
And this was something that was mentioned at the rally over the weekend in Iowa, or I guess just before the weekend in Iowa.
And so, you know, look, if there's going to be a fight, then we are more than ready for a fight.
And I know that I certainly am.
And I'm not going to.
But don't you have to know what you're really fighting for?
I'm fighting for the country.
I'm fighting for America first.
No, I get that.
But are you fighting for deportations of every illegal immigrant in the United States?
If that means that farms close all over the United States, for example?
Yes, it is 100% across the board.
When we were at the RNC in Milwaukee, we had mass deportations now assigned.
And by the way, that doesn't necessarily mean that they all need to be arrested.
I know that people have been crunching the numbers and saying, oh, you know, if you do this many arrests a day and that many.
I think that self-deportations are something that really need to be worked on.
I think the remittance tax that went through in the big beautiful bill should have been higher.
1% is too low in my estimation.
I think that should be 5%, 10%, or even 50%, because in some of these cases, that's exactly what's going on, is that they're here for economic reasons in the United States.
And so if you put that in the middle of the middle, doesn't the United States economy need a lot of them?
Isn't this the whole point about the farmer debate?
Is that actually farmers have gone to Trump in big numbers and said, if you deport every illegal, undocumented worker in the country, we're out of business.
Well, look, you know, there can be a way for this to be done in a phased matter where they can get people in.
And over time, it's not like it has to be, we're going to snap our fingers overnight and they're going to be gone, but absolutely, over time, 100%.
Brian, what do you think of that?
I mean, it seems to me that Trump's had a lot of political wins.
Whatever you think of him, the last three, four weeks, you could argue have been the most successful politically that he may have had as a president.
But it seems like on a lot of his issues, there's this dilemma which he's going to have to confront.
And not least, I think, this issue of undocumented workers.
Well, it's interesting because Jack says MAGA is fighting for the country.
So is fighting for the country giving the biggest tax breaks to the top 1% in the history of the nation?
Is fighting for the country not giving people due process and people that have been living in this country for decades and ICE agents coming up to them, not identifying themselves, ripping them from their families right outside of the courtroom.
They're trying to do the right thing or sending people to El Salvador prisons with no criminal record.
That's fighting for the country while Donald Trump is doing this weird masturbation dance on July 4th when dozens of kids are missing in Texas.
That's fighting for the country, Jack?
No, I'm sorry.
That's the opposite of fighting for the country, okay?
You know exactly what dance I'm talking about, Jack?
I'm sure you do it every night before you go to sleep.
Yeah, I think you do, Jack.
I think you do, Jack.
Okay, well, the point that I was trying to make, Jack, is you said that MAGA Republicans are fighting for the country, deporting people.
Illegal aliens of the Constitution.
In short work, they won't be because those aren't Americans.
Those are illegal.
So they don't deserve due process?
What does it say in the Constitution?
It says every single person, not citizen, not non-citizen, the Constitution says that, okay?
It says subject to the jurisdiction.
So someone should be deported to it.
So you're okay with people being...
You don't have any.
So you're okay with someone being deported.
No, it's not a talking point.
It's called reality, Jack.
You don't live in reality.
You live in MAGA world and you take a venture.
We're all going home.
No, you don't.
They're all going home.
So you're okay.
Go ahead, Adam.
I was going to say, can I ask if we had studies proving, which we do, that these farm workers lead to increased economic output, would you still want to deport illegal farm workers?
How is that putting America first when it hurts the economy?
Like Pierce, farm workers are coming to the United States.
The Democrats say, oh, you're just going on the side of big ag and big corporations.
Like, here, I'm the MAGA guy, and I'm the one who's saying that.
You're not answering my question.
How is that helping the economy?
You guys just love kissing the boots of big corporate America, huh?
No, I like the economy.
I like how we can hear economic output.
How does it have studies on Wall Street, the Wall Street person?
This isn't about Jack Leville.
Do you know what I would have done if I was Trump?
I'd have taken a massive victory lap over the stunning success in the southern border, reducing the numbers coming over illegally to almost negligible numbers from the millions that came in under Biden.
I'd have taken a massive victory lap, which would have been applauded by, I think, most Americans.
And then I would have targeted the people who were in the country illegally who committed crimes.
And that was the first thing he said, I remember, as a campaign thing.
When you get to a wider category of people and you simply say, we're going to deport everyone who's undocumented in America, I mean, you're basically, you could potentially be looking at 100 million people.
Nobody really knows, right?
But the idea that that won't rip the heart out of America's economy in industries like farming, I think is for the birds.
So I just felt like Trump's got a big win.
He's got a couple of big wins on immigration, right?
Take the southern border win, deport the ones who commit crimes, and then move to a new reform of the whole immigration system, but not at the expense of industries like farming.
John, you're nodding there.
Yeah, Pierce, there's a middle ground here.
In early 2001, the Bush administration, the George W. Bush administration negotiated an agreement with the government of Mexico that would address much of this.
All of the Mexican workers who were here illegally, who were undocumented, would have to go back to Mexico.
They could file papers asking permission to obtain a nine-month visa that would allow them to come here, work, pay taxes, and then go back to Mexico for three months.
And they would have to go through this process every year.
That way, they were legal to come and work, continue the jobs that they had, pay taxes, and go back.
That was scuttled because of the 9-11 attacks.
But I think that's the basis.
That could be, should be the basis for something that the Trump administration can negotiate with Latin American governments right now.
Okay, I want to just end quickly with Gaza.
Netanyahu is at the White House.
Jack, I mean, it seems to me it's imperative for the people in Gaza that there is a ceasefire and actually an end to this war.
I think it's increasingly imperative for Israel and Israelis, actually, and Jewish people around the world that this ends.
Because unlike the military strikes in Iran and against Hezbollah in Lebanon, this has made what's happening in Gaza with the enormous civilian death toll as they've gone after Hamas.
This has made Israel increasingly despised around the world.
Well, it has.
And not only that, but prior to the Iran flare-up, this conflict, this was also something that was eroding B.B. Netanyahu's political base internally within Israel.
Gaza War Without End Goal 00:15:41
He certainly got a rally around the flag moment right now because of the Iran situation and the way that that's been viewed.
But prior to that, he narrowly survived a leadership vote just a week before the initial strikes were taken in that operation.
And by the way, all of that was predicated on him breaking the ceasefire deal originally with Gaza.
So if he does not agree, and I know that there's been a ceasefire that I've seen in media headlines, but I would love to see him standing there with President Trump, agreeing to that ceasefire there at the White House.
Yeah, and, you know, Adam, I just feel like, you know, I'm somebody who for many months after October the 7th, given the scale of what happened, I continued to defend Israel's right to defend itself against Hamas because Hamas were wedded publicly to continue doing this as many times as they could do it.
They were wedded to getting rid of every Israeli if they could.
So I supported the right to defend themselves.
But in recent months, it's become almost impossible to defend what Israel's been doing, the three-month blockade of already impoverished and starving people, the relentless bombardment killing so many civilians without any hostages getting released through this period.
And then the people like Smodric, the finance minister, publicly stating that his goal is to cleanse Gaza of all Palestinians, which is actually his ethnic cleansing, which is a war crime.
You put all that together, and it's become almost impossible to defend Israel continuing to prosecute the war in Gaza the way they're doing it.
So I just feel as somebody who likes Israel and Israelis and feels for Jewish people around the world, you've had a very traumatic two years, as the people of Gaza have had, the innocent people in Gaza.
I feel this has to end.
What do you feel?
Yeah, I think I've gone through the same journey that a lot of people have, including you, where initially after October 7th, I was fully supportive of Israel's right to respond and root out Hamas.
I would even argue with people in my generation, because I'm 22 and they have some wacky opinions.
I'd be like, listen, if the power imbalance were reversed and Hamas had the power over Israel that Israel has over Hamas, there would be no Jews in the Middle East.
So you just have to understand the power imbalance.
But I can't put an exact pinpoint on the date.
At some day, I feel like they're just beginning to cross a line over and over and over.
And when we're heading into like a year and a half or two years of a war with no end goal, no specific end goal, I know they say they want to root out Hamas, but at some point, it feels like they're just killing people who are getting flour and way overstepping.
So I've talked to a lot of people who seem to have gone through the same journey where they're like, of course, root out Hamas, of course.
But at some point, it seems to be too far.
Yeah.
Brian, your thoughts?
Yeah, I just want to make a point.
And you made this earlier, Pierce, and we agree on this.
Just because you criticize the Israeli government doesn't mean you're anti-Semitic.
Okay, I'm Jewish.
I criticize the Israeli government and Benjamin Netanyahu.
And Donald Trump took the Israeli intelligence over our own.
Now we're involved in another war, this time with Iran.
I thought Donald Trump was going to be the peace president and he wouldn't get us into any new wars.
Listen, Israel has a right to defend themselves.
I agree with you, Pierce, 150% on that.
But there comes a point where this is their war and it shouldn't be our war.
Somehow it's okay for us to put all this money into this situation with Iran.
And by the way, that's a whole nother story of how successful this strike was.
But yet when it comes to Ukraine, we got to stop aiding Ukraine.
How much money have we given Israel?
$450 billion plus?
That seems to be totally fine.
But when it comes to Ukraine with these MAGA Republicans, no, we got to stop defending our allies in Ukraine.
So I've criticized Benjamin Netanyahu.
I will continue to do so.
We need to question the Israeli government.
And the fact that our own president takes their intelligence over our own should tell you something.
He's full of crap.
And I got to tell you something.
We got to stop putting all this money into a war that we should have never been involved with with Iran in the first place.
Yeah, and you know, it's perfectly possible and indeed perfectly reasonable, I would argue, to criticize the Israeli government without being anti-Semitic at all, i.e., like me, or to look at certain things Israel has done in its defense, the way it attacked Hezbollah with the extraordinary pager attack, and say that that was a very precise, very well-targeted, very successful mission against a bunch of terrorists who've been waging war against them for years.
And also think that what's happening in Gaza has got completely out of hand.
And it looks like it's just involving the obliteration of the whole strip and the elimination of everyone there out of the strip.
John, final word to you.
What do you feel about this?
I have to agree.
You know, when you look at the Hezbollah operation, that was absolutely brilliant from an intelligence perspective.
Imagine the moving parts that are at play in an operation like that, where you go from the point of production to the point of delivery and everything in between, the supply chain, absolutely incredible.
But you can't just slaughter women, children, emergency workers, doctors, blow up hospitals every single day and say that you're fighting Hamas.
Sure, Hamas is a terrorist group, but Hamas is minuscule compared to the population of Gaza.
And these tens of thousands, hundreds of thousands of deaths are unacceptable.
These are crimes against humanity and they have to stop.
I don't think we've ever discussed this topic where everyone on a panel has broadly agreed.
So I'm going to take the win on the broad agreement and hope that I've got a feeling Donald Trump is going to get some movement on this with Netanyahu.
I got a feeling we may hear that sooner rather than later.
I think he, you know, and you know what, people who are cynical say he just wants the Nobel Peace Prize.
Well, Obama got one after eight months in office for saying some fancy speeches.
You know, if Trump was to actually get this sorted, this war ended, and could then move to try and do the same in Ukraine, as I know he desperately wants to, that would be an amazing achievement.
Gentlemen, thank you all very much.
Thank you.
Thank you, Pierce.
Donald Trump is due to meet with Benjamin Netanyahu at the White House with the president saying a ceasefire deal in Gaza is close and could be agreed this week.
Trump previously told reporters he'd been very firm with Netanyahu about ending the conflict after 21 months.
But joining me now is Israel's ambassador to the United Nations, Danny Dano.
Mr. Donald, thank you.
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Thank you very much, indeed, for joining me again on Uncensored.
What can you tell us about this meeting that is happening in the next few hours between the President of the United States and the Prime Minister of Israel?
Thank you for having me again, Pierce.
First, it's the third meeting within six months.
I think it's remarkable.
It shows the strength of the bond between two nations that are together, the friendship between the leaders.
And you know, we accomplished a lot during the fight against Iran.
I'm sure the Prime Minister and President Trump will reflect on their achievements.
But we'll also have to look ahead what we are doing now with Iran, you know, in terms of diplomacy, in terms of some kind of supervised methods, maybe sanctions.
I think, you know, we know we achieved a lot, but we have to pay attention to the future.
We don't want Iran to go back to the same position they were a few weeks ago.
The second issue would be Gaza.
We still have 50 hostages in Gaza.
There is a proposal on the table, a very detailed proposal.
We said yes, and Hamas said yes, but now they're trying to add more things to the proposal, like always.
So it's difficult, it's challenging, but we are not giving up.
We send our team to Doha to continue to negotiate, and hopefully we will see this partial deal come into effect, which will allow more hostages to come back.
We've seen reports which have been not confirmed officially, but that the framework for a ceasefire could see Hamas hand over 28 hostages, 10 of whom would be alive and 18, sadly, dead, in five stages over 60 days.
And there would be a surge in humanitarian aid entering Gaza as well.
Is that your understanding of that part of any agreement?
Yes, you know, in general, those details are accurate.
You know, we wish to get all of the hostages, but it's not happening now.
But we accept this framework of receiving half of the hostages who are alive, 18 bodies.
I think that's something we can work with.
And within those 60 days, we can talk about what's happened next, what will be the next stage.
I want to remind you: we have two goals in this war.
We didn't choose to fight this war.
It was brought upon ourselves.
Our goal is how to release hostages and to make sure that Hamas is not in charge of Gaza.
There is no future for Gaza with Hamas.
Do you accept, Mr. Danon, Mr. Ambassador?
Do you accept that unlike with the action in Iran, which was widely seen as a very precise strike against very precise targets, military targets, nuclear sites, nuclear scientists, nuclear military people, similar to the very precise attack on Hezbollah with the pager devices exploding on 3,000 of them?
The problem with Gaza is that the world has looked on with increasing horror at what appears to be a policy of just completely obliterating the Gaza Strip.
70% of it has now been destroyed.
The bombardment continues on a daily, nightly basis.
And in the process of continuing to go after Hamas, more and more civilians are getting killed, including a staggering number of children now.
And this is bringing on Israel around the world a lot of deep criticism, not least from your own allies, not least from people like me who were very supportive of Israel's right to defend itself after the horrors of October the 7th.
Do you accept that Gaza is now a particular problem for Israel in terms of global opinion?
Well, first, I agree with you, Chris.
You cannot compare what happened in Iran to what's happening in Gaza.
And it's much more challenging for any democracy to fight a non-state actor.
You know, when you fight a state, it's easy.
You know where the targets are, where the military bases, the leadership.
And we proved, you know, when we attacked Iran, you know, we did everything we can to minimize civilian casualties, and it was very successful.
When you fight a terrorist organization which took over the population in the last 20 years and they are putting them as human shields in front, it's challenging.
It's hard.
And, you know, it's hard by all aspects.
You mentioned the civilian casualties, but also it's hard for us.
You know, for Israel, with our might of the IDF to drag this war for almost two years, it's painful.
It's painful for the country.
It's painful for the families.
It's a painful process.
It's the longest war ever in our history.
But because you have the population there, you cannot fight like you fight a military army.
And Hamas took advantage of that.
That's why you see that we have to ask the population to move.
And if there will be no deal, which I hope there will in the next few days, but if there will be no agreement, then we will have no choice.
We will have to, again, ask the population to move out and send our boys to fight and push Hamas out.
It will be painful for both sides.
But do you accept that too many civilians have now been killed?
I accept the fact that on both sides it is suffering.
You know, almost 2,000 Israelis died.
I don't know the number and we spoke about it last time about the Palestinian side.
It's very hard to know the real numbers because Hamas, you know, they will not tell you how many civilians died from natural causes in Gaza in the last two years.
Everything they put together, and I'm sure they exactly...
So you wouldn't dispute that many tens of thousands of civilians have died in Gaza.
Well, I can agree with you that civilians were killed.
And unfortunately, civilians are suffering in Gaza because of Hamas.
And that's why today, you know, I saw this morning, I saw people in Gaza chanting and calling Hamas to accept the deal.
And they don't understand why Hamas is continuing with the suffering.
So yes, there is suffering.
And I think also when you speak about the day after, I speak with many of my colleagues from the area.
And, you know, there are a lot of ideas about the day after reconstruction.
And they tell me, Danny, we are not going to send not only soldiers, but not even one check to Gaza if Hamas will still be there.
So if you think about the day after and reconstruction and building a better future for the people in Gaza, one has to realize that Hamas will not be part of this equation.
Do you accept, Mr. Abbaso, that criticism of the Israeli government and Israeli government policies is not anti-Semitic?
Well, first, you know, I'm at the UN, so I'm used for criticism.
It's legitimate to criticize Israel.
But you have to use the same standards like you use against any other democracy.
So if you have the criticism about the way we conduct our urban war methods, let's compare it to the UK, to the US, to other democracies who took actions on similar cases.
But when it comes to Israel, unfortunately, you see that the UN and other international organizations, they're using different standards.
They don't make the same remarks when it comes to Israel.
And that's something we cannot accept.
It's legitimate to criticize Israel, but we expect that it should be done in the same criteria like any other country.
Tucker Carlson, the conservative commentator in the United States, has just released an interview with the president of Iran, Masood Pezesh Kien, in which he says this, the president.
Two Iranian Ayatollahs have issued fatwas against Donald Trump.
What does that mean exactly, and what do you think of it?
To the best of my knowledge, they have not issued decrees or fatwas against any individual, against Donald Trump.
There are a number, some large number of Iranian nationals living in the United States.
Some have said they are, quote, sleeper cells.
They are terrorists who are acting at the command of your government.
Fatwas Against Donald Trump 00:05:21
Would you right now make a statement to Iranian citizens living in the United States not to commit acts of violence in the United States?
You see, these things you're telling me.
This is the first time I'm hearing them from you or from anybody.
What is your reaction to that interview?
First, I don't understand why you should give a platform to such a leader.
You know, if you go back in history, you should ask yourself, you know, in the sake of journalism, would you interview anyone?
I think there should be limits.
And you see the Iranian leader lying.
You know, everybody knows, you know, we know the fact.
They tried to assassinate President Trump not only once, twice.
They tried to assassinate Prime Minister Netanyahu.
You know, they're using the proxy against us.
So all of a sudden, they speak so nicely, so quietly.
I think we are beyond that.
We expose this regime.
And now they have to decide.
We will not buy those lies.
They can decide to move forward and accept restrictions which will not allow them to build those capabilities they wanted to build.
Or they think they can continue with this game, you know, giving soft interviews and continue with the deception.
It will not work.
We have the capabilities, us and the U.S., we will follow very carefully what's happening on the ground over there.
Finally, Ambassador, do you look forward to a day when Israel is not at war somewhere?
Absolutely.
You know, my dad was wounded because of the war and he lost his life.
I served in the military.
My son was an officer in the military.
I pray for the day that we can deal with other issues.
We are a peaceful nation.
We pray for peace.
And I believe that in the near future, we will be able to expand the Abraham Accords and develop relationship with our colleagues in the region.
But we have to first fight the radicals.
We did it in Lebanon.
We're in Gaza, in Iran.
And I'm optimistic about the future.
Ambassador Dunno, thank you very much, indeed, for coming back on.
Thank you very much.
Almost three years ago, four University of Idaho students were stabbed to death as they slept in their home.
No motive has ever been revealed for the murders of Kaylee Gonsalves, Madison Mogan, Zana Kernodle, and Ethan Chapin.
And a last-minute plea deal may mean that remains the case forever.
Brian Koberger, a former chronology student, was due to stand trial next month.
It was attacked that shocked America.
In a plea deal agreed last week, Coburger pleaded guilty to all four murders to avoid the death penalty.
The decision has split the families of the victims.
Well, joining me now is Kaylee's sister, Olivia, and parents, Steve and Christy.
Gonzalez, welcome to all of you.
Let me just say at the start, I'm a father of four children.
When I first heard about this story, it is pretty much the ultimate nightmare for any parent, for any sibling that your beautiful girl would be taken in this way in such a monstrous, senseless manner with her university friends.
And my heart just goes out to you.
Just before we get into anything else, I just want to tell you how much I felt for you in that moment without knowing you, how much I felt for you since then, and how much I feel for you now, particularly given what has happened.
Because let me start with you, Steve, if I may.
You don't know why this person, Coburger, did this.
And you may never know now because of this plea deal that was done clearly without your involvement, your approval.
How do you feel about that?
It was very shocking.
I just feel like I'm going through it all over again.
It's a different kind of betrayal because it's a betrayal from somebody who's supposed to be, you know, who's protecting you or supposed to like represent you.
So I didn't see it coming.
I didn't see something like this happening.
I thought there would be clear communications and things happening.
And when it didn't happen like that, that's why I went to the media because you guys help people understand what's going on.
And if we're silenced, nobody understands that the system's broken and we could do better.
We could fix this.
We have to fix this.
So like you said, we were probably going to learn about the details of our daughter through this monster's book that he's going to write through his sister, through his professor.
And that's not right.
That's just not right.
So that's, we're, we're hoping to be wrong, but we're afraid we're going to be right.
Christy, what is it as her mother you would most like to know?
What are the unanswered questions for you as a family that you think about, that you talk about, that you wish you had answers to?
We really feel in the negotiation with the plea that they could have at least why.
And, you know, like when what was it that why he chose that house, you know, our daughter, her friends, really why?
Seeking Closure for Victims 00:08:01
And not that it would be, we would, and that he did it solely by himself.
I know that he admitted his guilt, but there are still people saying, yeah, he admitted his guilt, but I don't think that he worked alone, you know, and for him to say, I take 100% full responsibility, me, myself, you know, only, it just would help with some closure, you know, constantly seeing people protect him and just putting it out there where you can't protect him anymore.
You know, people can't, you know, they can't continue to say things that to side with him to make him look like he's innocent because he is totally guilty.
And I know that he did do say that he did it.
There's just some details that I think that could have came out that would have definitely made him seal his guilt and help the families, at least our family.
I can't speak on behalf of the other families.
And maybe they didn't want to know some of that information, but we did.
Olivia, I mean, obviously part of the, I guess, the turmoil this may have created is that he's admitted everything.
But by doing so, he avoids the death penalty in a state where he could have been executed.
So you'll never, I guess, you may never know whether this is a sincere admission of full guilt or not, because of course he had an absolute vested interest in pleading guilty.
He doesn't die as a consequence.
Yeah, I do understand that point.
I know, and I knew from the very beginning he is 100% guilty.
There's not a doubt in my mind.
He can play whatever cards he would like to now.
But for us, I do think that that frustration was, you know, in exchange for your life, there are, you know, ways that you can kind of vindicate some of these others that have kind of been lost in this.
I'm talking about the roommates.
I'm talking about the boyfriends.
I'm talking about all of the innocents who were, you know, innocent bystanders to this, where for me personally, I don't care about his why.
I'm looking for hard facts.
Where's the murder weapon?
Let's recover it.
What were you wearing that night?
Where did you purchase it?
I'm looking for facts to prove without a shadow of a doubt that this is and always has been the sole perpetrator of this crime.
Not because I have doubts in my mind, but because a lot of the conspiracy theorists online and a lot of the people who were accused in this process deserve to know it was him alone by himself.
And that is the end of it.
Steve, how difficult is it as a family to live in an internet world and a social media world when something as appalling as this happens to rip your family apart?
And you have to deal with endless conspiracy theories, endless opinions from people who know very little about what they're talking about, endless attention, scrutiny, and so on.
Does that make it all just 100 times worse?
I don't like to feed it, but yes, it is hell to go through it, to be attacked over and over again.
And then to think that there's some system that can protect you when there really isn't anyone there to protect you.
It's eye-opening.
And you're just sitting there going, like, how can people just lie about us?
How can people write books and not even know us?
I'm used to sports where they have rights to their image, you know, and just regular humans, just regular mothers and fathers.
We don't have these rights.
And it's very eye-opening.
And you just sit there and wonder, like, I feel like this isn't real.
Like, what are we going through?
This is shocking.
So, you know, sometimes they say, you know, why do you talk to the media?
It's because that's how we bring our power back.
That's how we defend ourselves and we can set the narrative straight.
What have been the worst things that you've had to deal with in terms of ridiculous allegations, claims against you and your family?
We've seen it all.
We've seen Steve be blatantly accused.
We've seen Olivia be blatantly accused.
You know, we've had our interviews just absolutely scrutinized saying, did you see when he said this or that?
Did you see the way that Christy looked at him?
And or did you see her nudge him?
And, you know, there was something more in that nudge or that look.
You know, just when you say accused, Christian, do you mean that they're literally suggesting that somehow you may have had something to do with your daughter's death?
Yes.
100%.
I mean, I just, again, I just can't get my head around how horrific that must be.
I mean, it takes me back.
I remember being at CNN when Sandy Hook happened and people were promoting then the most unbelievably vile, ridiculous stories that this had been staged and that the parents were actors and so on.
But you're clearly living through a similar thing where, I mean, it's bad enough that your daughter gets taken from you in such horrific circumstances, but to then have people suggesting that you may have had something to do with it.
How painful is that?
It's hard.
It is so hard, you know, to see that people are, you know, actually, like you said, it's hard to wrap your head around it.
Like, where are these the thoughts of these people?
You know, where, why would they even think this when we, you know, we've had this person from the beginning, the defendant, and it's so blatantly him.
I mean, the evidence just got bigger by day by day by day, you know, and they could, you know, accuse my husband or my daughter or myself and say, you know, you know, or that it was, you know, drugs that was a huge thing.
You know, drugs were involved and these kids were druggies, which is absolutely not even, you know, the farthest from the truth.
You know, it was just a party house.
These kids were just, you know, a bunch of losers.
It's, it's horrible.
It's hard.
Targeted.
Yeah.
Yeah.
They, you know, there was some drug deal.
I mean, we've seen that, you know, it was a cartel hit, you know, like, you know, because they owed money to the cartel.
I mean, it was just absolutely insane.
Just, I mean, do you think the, do you think that the tech companies do enough to stop this?
I mean, would you have a message for people like Elon Musk and Mark Zuckerberg and the others who control the social media platforms?
Do you think enough is being done to protect families in your kind of position from this kind of attack?
I think it could definitely be improved.
I'm not one of those guys that tries to put my responsibility on others, but there's times where I flag stuff where they're taking images of us.
They put my house out on YouTube, things like that.
And it's hard.
It's hard to get that stuff stricken down.
You got to like go through a whole process.
So I definitely think they could approve it.
I mean, we got our Facebook page taken down because people said we were misrepresenting stuff.
It is not.
I don't want to talk out of both sides, though, because without the media, we would be victimized way worse than if we were just dealing with the prosecution.
I don't think the defense prosecution would have ever given out the truth.
They hide behind a gag order after they even get a plea.
They still want to keep it hidden.
So we're lucky to be in a world where we can talk to the media and let people know that, you know, this is how we know them.
This is how we understand the facts.
Missing Kaylee Every Day 00:04:38
Olivia, tell me about Kaylee, for those who didn't know that.
Yeah, Kaylee was awesome.
I know that that's a little cheesy to say, but she was really cheeky.
She was really funny.
She was super smart.
She was super friendly.
And one of my favorite things about Kaylee was how, you know, she was a little bit more, you know, gentle when you first met her, but she would stand up for what she believed was right no matter what.
You know, if it was a situation, even where, you know, someone was, you know, uncomfortable and clearly uncomfortable, even if she didn't know that person, she would have stood up for them and made sure that they were okay.
And I think it takes a lot of courage and a lot of bravery to do that.
And she had that.
And she was really true to herself all the time and super multifaceted.
It's hard to even put it into words, but she really was just a lot of fun to be around and had a lot going for her.
And there won't be a day that goes by that I don't miss her.
Steve, you've lost your beautiful daughter who had a whole life ahead of her at the age of 21.
Again, it's hard to imagine anything worse for a father parent to have to deal with.
What are the things you're saddest about that she will now never enjoy in her life?
Hayley was the one child in our family that just wouldn't take no for an answer.
So she was the one that would be like, we're going to go to Hawaii.
We're going to do a vacation.
We're just going to make this happen.
And then, you know, I got a laptop in front of me with everything booked and I just have to hit okay.
So I'm going to miss that spirit of hers where she, yeah, that spontaneous spirit that she had of like getting everybody rallied together.
Let's go do something fun.
And, you know, there hasn't been a lot of fun in the last two and a half years.
So you put a lot of that, attribute it to that person missing.
And all my kids are amazing, but it's hard to not think about what you're missing and, you know, try to make sure that all your kids understand they got a special place in your family.
But, you know, it's nothing I would ever wish upon any other family to go through.
Christy, do you think you'll attend the sentencing or is that a step too far for you as a family?
No, we're really, we're trying to figure that out right now because unfortunately, not unfortunately, but our youngest daughter is going away to college and that the 21st of the 25th is her orientation week.
And it's not close to home.
It's not close here to Idaho.
It's a few states away, a few time zones away.
So, you know, we have to be there for Aubrey.
You know, she's, but yet we really want to be there for the sentencing here hearing as well to give our impact statement.
So we're just trying to work something out right now.
We're trying to figure it out.
So super proud of Aubrey.
She got a scholarship to a school in Texas and we're super proud of her and just goes to, you know, these children that have just, I mean, it was so hard for her to get through this and she's still got a full ride.
That's amazing.
Steve, how do you feel about this monster, Coberger?
He's trash.
He's absolute trash.
And I'm coming for him.
You know, I'm coming for him as best as I can.
I know that his people want him to be studied.
I do not want him to be studied.
I don't want him having anybody paying attention to him.
He's not worth it.
There's nothing of value inside that human being.
I guess the best we can do is just lock him up and let him become an asset for the state, but that's not what we want.
Well, I wish you all the very best out of this hell.
It's great to hear about your daughter doing so well.
Amazing, really, given what's been going on with your family, that your family is still thriving.
I wish them all the very best with everything that they all do.
And I wish you all the very best at coming to terms with this and trying to move on from what happened.
It won't be easy, but you have extraordinary strength as a family, I think.
Thank you.
Wishing Best to Family 00:00:25
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