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June 12, 2025 - Uncensored - Piers Morgan
51:31
20250612_do-you-know-how-many-fat-gazans-ive-seen-bassem-yo
Transcriber: nvidia/parakeet-tdt-0.6b-v2, sat-12l-sm, and large-v3-turbo
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Time Text
Funding Genocidal Language 00:08:30
Mr. Jonathan von Artis, all of the Israeli cabinets have genocidal language.
We should start asking, why are we funding this?
I think you should update your poison.
I've heard it a million times.
It's interesting for me to hear that from an Egyptian.
Egypt never received $30 billion to murder children and bomb hot people.
Israel is like Shaggy.
You show you can take children.
It wasn't me.
Dude, your war crimes are documented.
They have broken more international laws than Didi has violated young raps.
I'll give you credit for saying catchy things and sound bites, but in terms of actually knowing what's going on in Gaza, you have no clue.
Three months of starvation, that is nonsense.
You know how many videos I've seen of fat Gazans, of fat Hamas fighters?
Dude, we gave you $30 billion to bomb children, and it's not enough for you.
At least when you pay a dominatrix, you know that you're getting fucked.
Five of Israel's allies, including the United Kingdom, have sanctioned two senior members of the Israeli government, Finance Minister Smodrich and Security Minister Bengevir, are accused of inciting extremist violence and serious abuses of Palestinian human rights.
Both have called for the aggressive expansion of Israeli settlements and the West Bank.
Smodrich says that Gaza will be entirely destroyed and that not one grain of wheat should be allowed in.
That's genocidal language.
And the result is an extraordinary situation in which two of Israel's top ministers are now banned from traveling to countries that Israel counts as friends and allies.
The United States, Israel's oldest and most important ally, is rapidly running out of patients too.
President Trump might be the only person outside of Israel who can end this war.
This week he called Netanyahu to tell him that a ceasefire and a hostage deal are not enough.
He expects the war to end.
For today's debate, I'm joined by two very familiar contributors whose insights we value and respect.
Jonathan Konrickus is a former IDF spokesman and combat commander.
Basim Youssef is a satirist, a former surgeon, and a figurehead of the pro-Palestinian movement.
Both have spoken a lot about October the 7th and the long history of the war and indeed the conflict.
So we're going to focus on what's happening now and what needs to happen next.
Jonathan will go first.
Basim will respond.
We'll try to give both of you equal time and a statement to respond to.
So let's get into this.
Jonathan Konrickus, first of all, your reaction to this pretty unprecedented news that two Israeli senior ministers have effectively been sanctioned by some of Israel's closest allies.
Yeah, it puts into question if it really is a close ally.
And I think it's, I'm very disappointed.
I think it is egregious.
I think it's wrong.
I think that decision is hypocritical.
I think it is unfair and probably impossible standards that are only applied against Israel.
And I think it is very unhelpful.
And I think that Secretary of State Marco Rubio said the same words.
Very unhelpful for the UK and a few other countries to gang up against Israel and to do that.
I will say that I didn't vote for either of those two ministers and I probably don't share many of their views and definitely not their language and style of communications.
But I will say that they were democratically elected and that in Israel, which is more than I can say about a lot of people and so-called leaders in the region who are not under UK sanctions, and I think that they represent what their voters feel.
Now, without espousing and supporting specifically what you quoted Metzalev Smotovich saying, When it comes to humanitarian aid, I think there's a bit of irony here that he is now sanctioned after he himself, as Minister of Finance, signed the budget that pays for humanitarian aid that is now being delivered to Gazans.
As far as I know, more than 14 million meals have been provided by Israel and the Gaza Humanitarian Foundation over less than two weeks directly to Palestinians without Hamas or their front organization, UNRWA, being able to touch, contaminate, control, and divert the aid.
And I think that is positive development, welcome.
I think that it is late in the game and we should have done it earlier, but I'm happy that it's being done now.
I'm happy on two fronts because one, there is a need for food to be provided, and two, it undermines the control and the stranglehold that Hamas has over the Palestinian population.
And I would also say under the same, just one last thing, Piers, under this category of hypocrisy, I've read so many tweets and statements by so-called humanitarians who claim to care about food and the humanitarian situation in Gaza.
They are the same people who are now saying that this humanitarian effort by Israel isn't enough and that they don't support it.
I wonder why they don't support it.
And I think that they don't support it because it doesn't support the UNRWA mechanism that is in place that keeps Hamas in place and because it is perhaps the beginning of the end for Hamas.
And a lot of people have a vested interest in Israel not defeating its enemy.
Okay, Passim Yusuf, your response.
You guys are talking about these two ministers as if this is the exception.
I mean, like all of the Israeli cabinets have genocidal language.
And Mr. Jonathan Konartist on the other side, he's like saying that they represent their constituents, which means the whole society, the whole community is genocidal.
This is what they represent.
And actually, I think we're asking the wrong question.
We should be asking, instead of what we do, we should start asking, why are we funding this?
Why is my tax money, $30 billion to date, went to Israel to buy 2,000 pounds bombs and F-35s to dump Palestinians?
Why is your tax money, Piers, is going to the British government to finance this?
If Israel wants to defend itself, let it defend itself by itself, not with my money.
And also, like, this is like a country that's bragging, that this lobby is buying off politicians in America.
APAC is bragging about 80% of Congress being paid by them.
If one politician in the EU, in Britain, in America was paid with pride by Russian money, oh my God, you're going to have six-month world-to-war coverage, foreign interference, democracy, imperial corruption.
But with Israel, crickets, complete radio silence.
And I brought this, by the way, many times, and it was just like you flow over it.
Because this is the real question, right?
Because you would spend three hours talking about if this is a proportionate response, but we'll not talk about three minutes.
Why is my money, why is hurricane relief funds in Caroline, in America, going to fund Israel?
Also, like, I don't understand the relationship between America and Israel.
It's like it's the most effed up situation ever.
We are like the world's most pathetic sugar daddy.
We give them billions of dollars and they shit on us.
Like Mr. Jonathan said, now we're ganging on them.
We're not helpful.
Dude, we gave you $30 billion to bond children and it's not enough for you.
Like, I mean, at least when you pay a dominatrix, you know that you're getting fucked.
But this is just America having a public humiliation king while getting fucked.
And they call this foreign policy.
They are arresting American students on American soils for protesting Israeli war crimes.
What the hell, man?
This is like your crack whore making you beat your children for calling her what she is, a whore.
This is what really boggles me in America.
The right and the left, they fight each other tooth and nail over gun control, education, minorities' rights, healthcare, DEI.
But when it comes to Israel, everybody competes to be Israel's favorite bitch.
Republicans hate handouts unless it's for Israel.
And Democrats, they love human rights unless it's for the Palestinians.
I mean, this is a Dululu state.
You guys are Dululu.
America's Israel Obsession 00:02:27
You are Dolulu.
Like, I came here today to witness for myself how someone can lie so shamelessly.
The guy is like a human pinball machine.
Every question lies on him and so Hamas.
It's like a magic eight ball with one answer.
Hamas.
At least flat earthers, they make things interesting.
You guys are boring.
You are like the same thing.
I left all of this.
I left the media because of this.
I come back.
It's a freaking groundhog day.
Every day, the same question, the same thing.
Dude, nobody believes you.
You are liars.
Nobody believes you.
Okay, let me just say, well, since you haven't been on media for a while, Bassim, you probably would have noticed that I've become quite unpopular, actually, with the pro-Israeli lobby because I've been increasingly critical of Netanyahu and his government and believe they have...
Because if you're not your doormat, if you're not...
They will not do it.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Okay, but you know.
You may have missed that.
But Jonathan Komrikus, your response to what Bassim Youssef said.
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Well, you know, I could choose to respond to many things.
I could respond to your foul language.
I could respond to how low you speak.
I could respond to your nonsense rhetoric.
And basically, I think it shows that you've been out of the business for a while because you're repeating, regurgitating a lot of stuff that's really old.
I think you should update your poison.
Updating Talking Points 00:07:16
You should get an updated version of the talking points against Israel.
All of the things you said are, they're quite low-level.
They're not very impressive.
I've heard it a million times, and it's quite childish.
It's interesting for me to hear that from an Egyptian.
Last time I checked, Egypt is the second largest beneficiary of American money.
And if you reportedly really care about your tax money, then have you asked yourself why the U.S. is providing so much money to Egypt and what the U.S. gets in return?
And what I would like to know is why is the Arab Egyptian Republic refusing to receive refugees, their Arab Muslim brothers from Gaza, and why are they so inhumane and cruel and preventing poor Gazans from escaping a war zone?
Last time I checked, the only war where civilians have been prevented from leaving, escaping, fleeing a battlefield is this war.
I cannot remember, and maybe you as a comedian can think of another war where civilians were prevented from a neighboring non-hostile state to flee the war.
I cannot remember any such thing.
And I think that the country where you come from has a lot to answer from.
I know that you're more confident in bashing Israel and talking conspiracy theories and AIPAC this and that and all of the other nonsense that you regurgitated.
But let's talk about Egypt.
Let's talk about their responsibility.
Let's talk about U.S. funds to Egypt.
Let's talk about their cruelty.
Let's talk about how they have prevented humanitarian access to Gaza.
Let's talk about the fact that they have built the world's biggest wall that dwarfs the Chinese wall and all Israeli security walls between Gaza and Egypt.
Why did they do that?
Out of Muslim compassion?
Out of care for humanitarian rights of their Arab brothers?
No, because they want the poor Gazans in and because they know that programs like this one and other programs will support Hamas propaganda and will blame Israel for what's happening when in fact Gazans should have been evacuated out of Gaza in the second or third week of the war.
We would have defeated Hamas quickly and with far fewer people.
Just to be clear, Jonathan, just to be clear.
Just to be clear, programs like this one hosted by me, which is the point you're making, I think, I just, I'm afraid, I take exception to a three-month policy of starvation of a populace that's been relentlessly bombarded that includes so many children.
That's my problem.
And I think that the war aims, the stated war aims of Israel at the start of this, which was to eliminate Hamas and to get the hostages released, neither of those things have happened.
All that's happening is more and more civilians are getting killed in the process of going after the Hamas terrorists.
And you've taken also as a government to starving already impoverished children.
And I just find that unconscionable.
As indeed, by the way, do two former Israeli prime ministers who've gone on record of saying that.
And there was a very powerful piece by a Jewish writer, Thomas Freeman, in today's New York Times, saying Israelis, diaspora Jewry and friends of Israel everywhere need to understand that the way Israel is fighting the war in Gaza today is laying the groundwork for a fundamental recasting of how Israel and Jews will be seen the world over.
And he doesn't mean in a good way.
He means in a very bad and serious and potentially dangerous way.
So yeah, this program has evolved.
It does stand.
Well, I'm going to go to Basim for his response.
But since you brought that up about those programs or whatever it presents.
That is what I get to respond.
Okay, well, I'm going to let Basim respond.
But that is my response to what you said.
So Basim.
So let's say that.
Well, I didn't finish making a coherent sentence.
Well, let Basim finish saying that I did it.
Okay, by all means.
I didn't interrupt you.
I didn't interrupt you.
You asked me about Egypt.
I'll answer.
You didn't.
I appreciate that.
One-third of the aid that Israel receives while Egypt has 10 times the population.
Egypt never received $30 billion to murder children and bomb hospitals.
Egypt was never allowed to have the privilege of having more than 58 vetoes in the Security Council, right?
And also, why doesn't Egypt take Palestinians?
This is like someone going into Fifth Avenue, shooting someone in the face.
And it's like, why do my neighbors don't bury the body?
You're the guys doing the killing, not Egypt.
So stop talking about Egypt.
Anyways, and I also would like to, like Jonathan and his likes, to please stop Zionizing us.
Stop Zionizing.
Zionizing, it's a verb which means to gaslight someone with such shameless, narcissistic, psychopathic audacity that you deny reality to their faces while simultaneously playing the victim, engaging in endless circle debates that go nowhere and displaying a complete loss of empathy and basic humanity.
Right?
Remember, Piers, why the first video went viral?
Because I called Israel a narcissistic psychopathic behavior that fucks you over and then makes you think it's your fault.
Because this is what Israel does.
It didn't happen.
And if it did, you're remembering it wrong.
And if you're not, it's your fault because you're looking into my phone.
Narcissists lived in their own made-up reality.
They don't share your reality.
They live in their own custom-made universe where facts are negotiable and truth is whatever saves them in the moment.
And when it comes back and when you corner them, they throw tantrums, accusation, hamas, anti-Semitism, fall victimhood mood.
And it's pointless to debate with them, right?
Because take him, for example, and the likes of him.
You show them a video, it didn't happen.
You show them UN reports, these are lies.
You mention international law, it's complicated.
You get testimonies on the ground from doctors and nurses at Hamas propaganda.
We saw it with our own eyes.
Your optic nerve is anti-Semitic.
Like Israel is like Shaggy.
We saw you won the hotspot.
It wasn't me.
We saw you kill the children.
It wasn't me.
Dude, your war crimes are documenting.
Hamas propaganda.
Also, it wasn't me.
There is no point of debating gaslighters.
We have 4K videos, satellite imagery, and your own soldiers posting on TikTok bragging about killing children.
But of course, yeah, the entire planet is having a mass hallucination, right?
This is like Israel has the same credibility as a Ponzi scheme, right?
This is why, I'll give you an example, how Dolulu is Israel, right?
Israel calls itself, I mean, he was in the IDF and he tell you, the most moral army in the world.
Also, they call themselves the most vegan army in the world.
So Jonathan here is representing an organization that is both vegan and genocidal.
Yeah, we will not eat chicken, but inshallah, we will bomb the hospital and barbecue it.
Do you see how fucked up is this?
This is like calling Jeffrey Dahmer the most vegetarian serial killer in history, right?
And this is this is, and one more thing.
Does any army in the world call itself moral?
This is another trait of narcissistic psychopathic behavior because they project to the world the exact opposite of who they are.
If they lie, they brag about being honest.
If they cheat, they brag about being faithful.
And if they are cheap, they brag about being generous.
And if they are criminal, genocidal, they brag about being moral, the most moral actually.
Journalists vs. Lies 00:15:40
Okay.
I mean, look, I would take away from that something that you and I, Jonathan, have reached agreement about, which is it remains appalling to me that international media and journalists are not allowed into Gaza to examine the veracity of all these claims from an independent perspective, because that would go a long way to answering the complaint, which is completely valid by Basin, that every time there is any kind of incident which reflects badly on Israel,
the immediate response is to shed doubt over it ever happening or to say it was Hamas propaganda or whatever, whatever, whatever.
And the reason for that is because the Israeli government knows that there are no independent journalists from outside allowed in to ascertain the facts.
And of course, nearly 200 Palestinian journalists have been killed by airstrikes.
So there is a lot of, Jonathan, you and I, I think, agree about that, right?
I think it would be in Israel's interest and the world's interest if they simply lifted the ban on journalists and allowed independent journalists to do their job and verify all these things that are happening.
I mean, you agree, right?
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Yeah, I remember having this conversation with you, and I think it was that little Canadian Jew, self-hating Jew, I forgot his name, who repeated the same lies or the same story about media.
And I remember telling you, Piers, that I will personally see you in the Gaza Strip if you decide to come over, since you have been campaigning on this, and since I think that you have a point, I don't think that what you say is true, and I don't think that all of the allegations that you make, some of them are directly unfounded.
But which ones out of interest?
Which allegations are on the stage?
What you said in the beginning of the last three-month blockade, yeah, three months of starvation, that is nonsense.
That is absolute nonsense.
But you had a three-month blockade, right?
I mean, there was a three-month.
Well, hang on, Jonathan.
Jonathan.
So let me explain.
You asked, you did your marketing.
You say nonsense, but there was a three-party.
Don't keep talking.
And if you're looking at the money.
There was a three-month blockade of food and aid.
You accept that?
Yeah, Piers.
Listen, we both know that I cannot be in a shouting contest with your mic with this situation, so I'm not even going to try.
Of course, you can.
You can't just dispute them with a...
No, I'm not.
You have to agree there was a three-month blockade.
I will tell you what there was.
There was before that a ceasefire which was violated by Hamas when Hamas refused to turn over hostages and to agree to the deal that was presented by the US with Egyptian and even Qatari support.
Hamas refused to hand over those hostages and to continue the ceasefire.
The ceasefire was ended and Israel returned to fighting.
Now, during the ceasefire, Israel literally pumped the Gaza Strip with international aid, not because we very much wanted to do so, because those were the conditions of the USA.
What happened when the ceasefire made?
The Organ administration, Israel stopped allowing that because fighting continued.
And Israel killed 300 people.
It was really important.
The next day, Israel killed 300 people.
But here is the really important thing.
I don't expect even you to try and explain they were all terrorists, right?
So they killed 300 people the next day.
And you launched, and the Israeli government launched a three-month blockade of food and aid.
These are simple facts.
And Israel did indeed stop providing aid to Israel.
Right, that's all I said.
So what did I say?
I was a situation there.
But it was not a tactic of starvation.
Nobody was starving in Gaza.
Nobody is starving in Gaza.
So why are they risking International aid, Piers, after the Gaza Strip was flooded with aid, and when UN warehouses couldn't even meet the capacity, and when truckloads were delivered from the Israeli side and weren't even taken by the UN on the other side and by their Hamas counterparts, that is when Israel said, Okay, we're also going to go back to fighting, and nobody is starving in Gaza.
That is a complete fabrication.
And if you speak about 4K evidence and all of that, Basim mentioned a lot of nonsense, but you speak about evidence.
You know how many videos I've seen of fat Gazans, of fat Hamas fighters, of overweight Gazans?
Do you know how difficult it is for an Israeli to believe that Gazans are when I see in social media that there are open hotels, that the markets have fresh produce, and that I know the amount of food that is coming into the Gaza Strip?
So allow me to question and doubt everything what you say.
Allow me to question and doubt everything that you say, Mr. Comedian Basim.
And because you don't have standing, you don't have knowledge, you're outdated, you're repeating.
I'll give you credit for saying catchy things and soundbites.
You do that very well.
But in terms of actually knowing what's going on in Gaza, you have no clue.
You're a complete uneducated person who is just regurgitating monologues and catchy names and popular culture and the people who are not.
And you don't think that we have in Gazans a bunch of fat people who aren't starving, you think that's not a catchy little phrase.
This is the total heard.
I mean, come on.
Really, Jonathan?
You're reduced to saying Gazans are so overfed.
They're all in the same place.
Come on, man.
Send them treadmills and bullets.
Piers, the only really skinny people that I've seen in Gaza, you know who they were?
They were Israeli hostages that were starved by Hamas.
They are the only skinny people and tortured people that I've seen coming out of Gaza.
They are the only ones that have been really malnourished.
All the other ones that I've seen, and believe me, I have watched hours and hours of footage of Gaza that none of you have taken the time to watch.
And I've seen healthy and social media.
Why don't you let the journalists in to verify whether they're any starving people in Gaza?
If you're so right, and all the Gazans are incredibly fat from all the extra food they've been.
No, that's not what I said.
You did, actually.
I didn't say that.
Why don't you let the journalists say that?
No, I didn't say that.
I said, let the journalists in, and we can analyze just how many fat people in Gaza there are who've been overfed in the last few months.
And we can analyze how many times UN organizations have weathered this thing, Jonathan, you can say what the hell you like.
But we can't verify it, can we?
You won't let journalists get in to verify it.
I'll say it now a fourth time, Piers.
I will invite you personally.
I am inviting you personally a fourth time.
And I've said it, I think, three or four months ago when I was last before that on your show.
I said, Piers, I agree that you should be able to get access to it because you have been campaigning to where you would accompany you and make sure that you would get access.
Yes.
No, I would make sure that you get in and that you get the opportunity to speak with Palestinians.
Yes.
Let me get a simple question.
That's your response.
You would have a good opportunity to do it.
I was promising your response.
I have to have spoken for three minutes or even less, and the rest is spoken.
This is unfair.
Like, come on, guys.
Well, you had equal time until that last exchange where I was arguing with him.
So now you can respond, Basin.
So, first of all, Israel is known, they have broken more international laws than Diddy has violated young raps, right?
This is like this is bullshit, right?
This is the problem with debating with pathological liars than him.
Like trying to nail jelly to the wall.
It's messy, it's pointless and everybody watching knows that you're wasting your time.
Pathological liars don't argue with you, they argue to exhaust you.
Right, the whole point is to drag you into pointless and maze of circular logic that you either give up or you lose your temper.
Right, you present evidence.
They question the source.
You give them the source.
The sources are biased.
You show them video footage.
The footage is taken out of context.
You give them the context.
It's complicated.
For them, truth is not a destination.
Truth is a moving target.
Right, everything can be always debated, including gravity.
Right, reality for them is another opinion.
War crimes becomes allegation, genocide becomes a conflict.
Dead children becomes casualties.
In a very sad, complex situation, words have no meaning anymore.
Right, so this?
They do all of that while maintaining this calm, reasonable demeanor.
You know, like him, he has like a resting genocide face.
Like you know, it's like it's, it's like crazy.
Right, they're not here.
Not, they're here to waste time while people die.
So you don't debate with pathological liars.
You diagnose them.
Right so like, because this, this is this, is a problem.
And also i've been hearing.
I just want to ask like, do you do you do you practice in the mirror this uh, victim voice like, because you just sounded as if the the, the most powerful nuclear power in the region, are hiding under the bed like a small puppy.
This is, this is crazy.
And also, let's talk about journalists.
How many times Israel killed journalists and then it didn't happen?
It wasn't us no, it was us, but it's an accident.
Let's talk about journalists.
By all, interrupt me, don't interrupt me.
Don't interrupt me, like it's not us.
Let's talk about journalists, indeed about, let's talk about.
Yeah, I did, I didn't interrupt you, shut the up, alas.
So anyways, like you have like journey to shut the up and don't use that language with me mr, and they have, I don't use that language with me and you're killing people Malish.
I'm so sorry if my language is hurting your feeling.
Again, don't use that language with me.
Try to keep it civilized.
Do it for a second.
Try to keep it civilized civilized okay, anyways.
Like, let's talk about journalism.
Like let's talk about journalists.
How many times they killed journalists right, and how many times they denied it and said it was a mistake?
Uh, we will investigate.
And let's talk about journalists.
Let's talk about Asa Weinstanley, a British journalist in London.
His house was raided by British police for writing and exposing Israelic war crimes, for exposing their claims on october 7th.
For exposing the rape hoax.
He debunked the rape host.
He exposed the Hannibal Directive.
This is a guy sitting in London talking about a foreign country and he was raided by British police.
So I want to ask everybody who cares about freedom of expression, including you peers like, shouldn't you be worried that one of your nationals, a British journalist he shares your same profession to be raided by London police and his and his equipment is taken away for writing about a foreign country.
What does this tell you about England?
What does this tell you about Israel?
What does it tell About the so-called freedom of expression in the West?
Right?
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So, this is the problem.
Like, this is the problem of dealing with people.
So, let me ask you a question, Basim.
Let me ask you a question because I've given Jonathan a hard time.
I think he's deserved it after some of the things he said.
And let me give you a different type of question.
The Israelis say and have said from the start, all that has to happen is Hamas release the remaining hostages.
And they have steadfastly refused to release the people that they kidnapped on October the 7th, 2023.
Why don't they release the hostages?
And do you condemn them for not releasing them?
You see, this is the problem.
Do you condemn Hamas?
Seriously?
Your voice is annoying.
Stop.
Your voice is annoying.
So is yours, but that's okay.
Yeah, maybe.
Yeah, I know, I know.
But you know what?
People pay to come to my shows.
They wouldn't pay to come to yours.
Anyways, so here's the I'm not going to go into a pissing contest with who is a better person.
You can have that title.
You can be a little bit more than that.
You will definitely lose.
Basin, ask him, answer my question for me.
So here's the thing.
Let's talk about credibility.
This is what Israel claims.
Why would I believe anything that Israel says?
Piers, did you ask him a question, or is this another monologue?
I do want an answer to the question, Basim.
I think that's only fair, right?
I mean, it's a very straightforward question.
This is Israel claims.
Why do I believe a liar?
Israel has lost its Israel has to do with the state.
You don't dispute there are still hostages, do you?
Or do you?
Yeah.
These negotiations have fallen many times within the government because people inside the Netanyahu government didn't went through.
Yeah, but that wasn't the question I asked you.
But hang on, Basim, that wasn't the question I asked you.
I simply said, why haven't they released the hostages?
And do you ask Hamas for the question?
Well, hang on.
Let me remind you, but and do you condemn Hamas for not releasing them?
Oh my God.
Do you condemn Hamas?
Yes, yes, yes.
This is great.
Both hazards.
Even if they have hostages, even if Hamas was a vampire sucking baby's blood, what is happening there is not justifiable.
You're not just, you cannot, you do not destroy a whole population.
That's a different question.
But Bassim, that's a different question.
And I agree with you.
By the way, I actually agree with you, but my question is very simple.
Should Hamas release the hostages?
And that's the fact they keep refusing to.
Do you condemn them?
Yeah.
A simple question.
Well, here's the thing.
Hamas have agreed to, again, I'm not a Hamas representative.
I cannot speak for them.
But we all know that Hamas has.
No, no, no.
Israel has sabotaged this deal many times based on testimonies from inside the Israeli government and from the family of the hostages.
Covering Up The Story 00:14:50
Israel is the one that's been sabotaging.
But answer my questions.
I am answering your questions.
It's not that because they do it because Israel has sabotaged them.
Should they release the hostages and do you condemn them for not releasing them?
Of course they should.
Of course they should.
And do you condemn them for taking the hostages and not releasing them?
I condemn Hamas for not releasing the country and I condemn Israel for keeping more than 25,000 hostages in Israel.
Half of them is women and children, right?
And it's what is again, let me go back to my point: credibility.
Israel has lied many times.
You have the prime minister of Israel, Ibn Amin Idiya, went in front of the UN right before they bombed Lebanon.
And he said, Every house in South Lebanon in their kitchen, in their garage, harbors a missile for Hezbollah.
If this is not comedy, what is this?
How can you believe someone who said something that have you been to southern Lebanon?
Have you been there?
Do you know anything about it?
No, of course.
Don't say that.
Have you been there?
Do you know anything about it?
Out of the three of us, I'm actually the only guy who's been there.
You haven't been there.
You don't know about it.
I'm sure you haven't seen intelligence about Hezbollah operations.
And I'm quite sure that Pierce hasn't either.
I can tell you that I've seen it with my own eyes.
Yes.
I have seen underneath houses in Lebanon.
I have seen houses that Hezbollah used for military purposes.
And when you speak about lying, well, at least you should have something to back up your claims.
You're saying nonsense.
You don't know what you're talking about.
You're cheap TV.
Don't talk over each other, Jonathan.
There's no point.
Let Basim finish and then respond.
It's fine.
Shut the fuck up.
All right, finish your point, Basim.
Let Jonathan be a good thing.
Always deeply hurt state.
Well, doing that.
They're doing that while holding the gun.
Israel is what happens when you give a very advanced military to a Karen.
Actually, he looks like a Karen.
He looks like a Ramil's Scandinavian version of Akaren.
Actually, he looks like he swallowed the Karen.
But Israel is the only place where you can bulldoze a house and then sue you for spreading the ten.
But dude, dude, nobody, nobody, everybody knows that you're lying.
Your neighbor knows that you're lying.
Your barista knows you're lying.
Even your GPS avoids your house because of the sting that comes from your vicinity.
Everybody knows you're lying.
Well, I would say this.
Let me jump in.
Okay, let me put it this way.
You know what, Jonathan?
You're perfectly entitled to not care what I think about it is or what Basim Youssef has to say about it because obviously he has passionate views on the other side of this.
And I've changed my views, as you know.
I've said this to you very clearly.
But I'm not the only one.
What would concern me right now if I was Israeli or Jewish actually is if I read Thomas Friedman's column, which was very powerful, and I urge people to read it today on the New York Times website.
If I saw that the UK, Australia, Norway, Canada, New Zealand have sanctioned two members of the Israeli government for repeated incitements of violence against Palestinian communities.
If two former prime ministers, one Ehud Elmer, said enough is enough.
Israel's committing war crimes.
Ehud Barak, choosing a war of deception, would write a new chapter in the march of folly.
The war is a misleading smokescreen that purports to be a campaign for the country's security and future, while in actuality it's a political war.
You've got your own former prime ministers.
You've got Jewish columnists.
You've got five allies.
And they're all being increasingly critical of what this Israeli government is doing.
Why does that not concern you?
So let's address that.
First, let's characterize the countries that are part of that.
Norway is not an ally.
Norway has been really the tip of the most extreme part in Europe propagating Palestinian state at all costs.
I will.
I will.
And as I said in the beginning, I am indeed worried.
I'm saddened by it.
I think that it is a wrong decision.
And I regret that that is what the UK has decided to be the policy that the Israeli.
You know why they're doing it?
Don't you think it's regrettable?
They're doing it because Smodrich and Bengevir have made no secret through their publicly stated comments that they want to kick all the Palestinians out of Gaza.
They're also endorsing endless new illegal settlements on the West Bank.
This is genocidal language they're talking.
That's why these actions have been taken.
And I don't believe, Jonathan, having interviewed you many times.
Hang on, let me ask a question.
Having interviewed you many times since the start of the war, I do not believe that you have anything in common with these people.
I just think you instinctively know what they're saying and what they are planning to do is wrong.
So let me say this.
As I said in the beginning, and I've been clear about it, I didn't vote for, and I probably don't support them in much of what they say.
Not in content and not in the way that they say it.
I don't think that what everything that these two ministers, these elected officials say is wrong.
But I do think that many of their statements have been tasteless, have been wrong, and have been unhelpful.
Now, what I am concerned with a lot, really a lot, is what we spoke about the last conversation.
When you had Ehud Olmert on, you asked him one semi-serious question about the war crimes allegations.
He didn't back it up because he doesn't have anything to back it up with.
He was just there for the headlights, for the headlines, and for the attention, and because he has a grudge against Bibi, and because he also has a lot of criticism against him.
That is fine, and that's part of the Israeli political debate and environment.
And that is usually what happens in democracies when people have the ability to say what they think and they have the freedom to do so.
By the way, Arabs have it as well in Israel, unlike in most other countries in the Middle East.
However, what I would say is also very worrying and I think relevant to this program and to many other programs is how easily Hamas propaganda and anti-Semitism are platformed and what the consequences of journalists.
A few questions ago, you started speaking about journalists.
I would like to address the issue of the responsibility of journalists when they report from the field.
I would like to address the responsibility of the New York Times.
They are in the field.
They are, Piers.
They are in the field.
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They have people in the field and they have people.
How many international journalists are currently in Gaza?
How many international journalists are currently operating freely in Gaza?
Why would you diminish the importance of Palestinian journalists?
I asked you how many international journalists.
I do get them.
How many international journalists are in Gaza area?
You can see who is reporting.
Nada.
Yeah, but you can see who is reporting.
All of the major networks are reporting from Gaza.
If you don't like the reporting from Gaza, then let international journalists in.
But you won't.
And there's only one reason you won't.
Because you don't want journalists.
We don't want journalists to actually report what's happening.
You would rather smear all Palestinian journalists.
And we are in agreement.
Piers.
Piers, we have covered it.
And I have already said that we are in agreement that you and I have said to Israeli counterparts off media that I think we should allow journalists in.
We have said that.
And I think you don't need to use it every time.
It hasn't happened remotely.
You keep questioning the integrity of Palestinian journalists who are getting killed in large numbers, record numbers, in fact.
But you won't let the international journalists.
I will continue to do that, Piers.
Yes, and I will continue to question the veracity of the people.
But that's very easy to do, isn't it?
It's so easy to smear Palestinian journalists who are dying in large numbers because you won't let any other journalists in.
So you say all the ones that are there are pro-Hamas.
You smear a lot of reporting from Gaza.
There is a lot of reporting from Gaza.
And really, I think it's fine that you have a point to make, but you cannot say that every time I open my mouth and I speak about press coverage or falsifying reality or repeating Hamas propaganda, that cannot be the answer that you use each and every time that I make a point about reporting.
Actually, it can.
It can, because it's one way.
It's an editor.
It is.
Actually, I can.
It cannot be.
I can't, Jonathan.
I'll tell you why I can.
No, it cannot.
Let me answer.
No.
I'll tell you why I can.
You can do everything.
I'll tell you why I can.
Because actually, I think responsibility goes both ways.
Let me answer you.
Let me answer.
Responsibility is that you can't.
Let me answer you.
Stop talking and let me answer you.
This is the reason I came.
By all means, Piers.
Because ultimately, we've got to a place in this war where Israel denies or casts out over anything that happens which reflects negatively on the IDF or the Israeli government.
Anything.
It's all just dismissed as it didn't happen.
It didn't happen like that.
We'll launch an internal investigation ourselves.
And so the overriding answer to all of that problem, to all of that, to get to the truth, to get to the bottom of it, is let the international journalists in.
So I will keep saying it until it happens.
I know you agree with me.
I know you agree.
But you agreeing with me doesn't make it change.
Yeah.
Okay.
Well, as I said, you can keep on saying it, but I would keep on saying that I think journalists and editors have responsibility for the lies that they spread and for the anti-Semitism that they help flame.
And I think that we see that.
Jews, when you speak, you expressed concern and you asked me how I feel as an Israeli and as a Jew about what people say and about the situation.
I am concerned without even a drop of cynicism about what you said.
And I think those are serious issues that this government needs to answer for.
But I will also say that I am very concerned with the ease and with the negligence that I see journalists and people with access to microphones, how they just spread falsehoods, libels, and lies about Israel and about Jews.
And I see the real world consequences of what happens when Islamists and Palestinian supporters and Hamas supporters and all of the other bad apples that have embedded themselves in Western society are allowed to get Abbasim.
I'm going to get Abbasim to respond, but I would just say on that point, I myself have seen in the last two weeks that if you dare to criticize the Israeli government in a way that almost everybody is now doing, by the way, whether it's former Israeli prime ministers, whether it's allies of the country, you name it, people are queuing up to criticize the Israeli government.
But when I did it, despite having defended Israel's right to defend itself for many, many months, as Basim knows, we argued about it, that I was immediately accused of being a Jew hater and an anti-Semite.
It is a deliberate campaign.
It was a deliberate campaign to shut me up.
It was a deliberate campaign to stop me criticizing the Israeli government by branding me a Jew-hating anti-Semite, which anyone who's watched it shows that is not true.
At the start of this war, knows is complete nonsense.
Right.
Basim, your final word to this.
That's not truthful.
But it is true.
I read it every second on social media.
I saw myself being accused of being a Jew hating anti-Semitism.
Piers, you know, that the criticism against you wasn't because you have criticism against Israel.
It was because how you spoke to Natasha, the tone and the demeanor.
It wasn't the control of the apology for, by the way.
She is a barrister for a group called Lawyers for Israel.
She's not an impartial horse in the race.
She's supposed to be an international barrister.
If she can't take tough questions or being challenged or being interrupted by a journalist, she's in the wrong job.
Right, Bassin, your response to Jonathan.
Respectful to round up.
Bassin will now be allowed to speak without interruption to finish the debate.
Bassen.
First of all, Piers, welcome to the behavior of narcissistic psychopaths.
They love bomb you.
And then when you make a single criticism about them, they go all flip like batshit on you.
Welcome, Habibi.
Also, like Jonathan over uses the word anti-Semitism so much, it's like a used condom at this point, you know, completely stretched out, lost all its protection, and nobody wants to touch it anymore.
Jonathan uses Hamz more like a crackhead, uses excuses, right?
And let me tell you about like things from the ground.
I'm coming to London, by the way, 19th of July.
There is a big concert called Voices for Solidarity.
They are organized by health workers for Palestine, right?
These are people that were on the ground and they saw with their own eyes and they have testimonies.
I would love you to actually host some of them.
So if you want people from the ground, so they can.
But of course, it's going to be like Hamas propaganda and all of that.
And also, like, one that one, what's like really have been bothering me about all of this is the reset.
It's as if the media is living its own groundhog day.
Everything resets, right?
Like Western media has the attention of a TikTok algorithm.
Every discussion starts from zero.
Every crime exists in a vacuum.
Every pattern is literally a coincidence.
Like, oh my God, those Israelis had really bad luck with these accidental hospital bombing.
What the hell?
40 hospitals bombed, and we discuss 41 as it's a new development, right?
It's like covering a Syria killer, new 20th victim without checking the 19 victims in the freezer.
This is not covering the story.
This is covering up the story.
And here's the thing: nobody, nobody believes you, Israel.
Nobody believes you.
Ignoring Hospital Bombings 00:02:44
Nobody likes you.
No matter how much media covers for you, no matter how much politicians you buy to parrot your talking points, no matter how many fake influencers you hire to whitewash your face, no matter how many fake Indian-based accounts that tweet for you, no matter how many European models you bring in and you pay them so they can dance with the IDF unifred, right?
That everybody can see you.
Everybody can smell your bullshit, right?
You are like the neighbor who firebombs everybody's house and he said why he's not invited to a house party, right?
You will win in the battlefield.
You will get more land because America supports you.
It's like supporting a rabbit dog that shifts on your loans and eats your cats and bites everybody.
And it's like, oh, it's just like you have a bad day.
You will win, maybe, on the battlefield, but everybody knows who you are.
A bunch of heartless, psychopathic, demonic assholes.
And that's, I don't have anything to say.
Okay, at the end of the debate, Piers, that's the final statement of this.
If you want to have a final word very quickly, by all means.
I'll try to say something positive.
You know, despite those that very foul language and what he just said, I will gladly invite you and your grandchildren to come visit Israel in 70 years.
Maybe you and I won't be here, but maybe our grandchildren will.
They will come to see a flourishing, democratic, free, prosperous society that despite the actions of the people like you, despite our enemies, despite naysayers, despite haters and many other people, they will see that we will continue to live in our ancestral homeland.
We will continue to nourish it and love it and we will continue to prosper and live here despite people like you.
All right, but I would also like in 70 years' time to see exactly the same for the people in Gaza who are Palestinians.
And that's their choice.
And that has been their choice.
Okay, they can have it.
I would like to see that.
I would like to see that kind of utopia for them as well.
So would I?
And for them to enjoy the same human rights that you and I enjoy.
I've got to leave it there.
So would I, but that's their choice.
All right.
We've got to leave it there.
Jonathan, you had a good amount of time to speak, as did Bassim.
Thank you both very much.
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