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June 2, 2025 - Uncensored - Piers Morgan
59:37
20250602_should-be-in-the-hague-ehud-olmert-on-netanyahu-pl
Transcriber: nvidia/parakeet-tdt-0.6b-v2, sat-12l-sm, and large-v3-turbo
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Justified Response or War Crimes 00:08:28
They want to see the Palestinians out of Gaza.
This is part of their grand design.
What is it if not a crime?
So do you think he should be at The Hague?
I have to say it, yes.
Should Donald Trump be doing more?
He is the voice of restraint and of reason.
Him summoning Netanyahu into the Oval Office and telling Netanyahu enough is enough.
Nothing gets you a redder carpet in international media than an Israeli hoping and gladly bashing Israeli politics.
Well, brother, I got news for you.
That's not what happens in America at all.
You love violence.
You absolutely love violence.
These are anti-Semitic tropes of land libels.
They're exactly the same.
Let me just ask you what you want.
You have to speak about bigotry.
You're lecturing me as historical.
You're advocating a cheerleader for terrorists.
Why don't you put on an outfit and a pom-pom?
The IDF has fiercely denied Hamas reports that its forces opened fire on crowds of Palestinians as they made their way to an aid center in southern Gaza.
Lettuce massacre could have been perpetrated by terrorists or by Hamas itself.
As ever, we cannot for sure say because the IDF doesn't allow journalists to operate freely in Gaza.
What neither side can deny at this point is that the scale of death and suffering is intolerable and the anger and devastation is rippling across the world.
Mohamed Soliman, an Egyptian national, has been charged with murder today after attacking a small and peaceful rally of Jewish people in Colorado with homemade petrol bombs.
A young couple who worked at the Israeli embassy in DC were shot dead 10 days ago by gunmen shouting free Palestine.
It should go without saying that attacking innocent Jewish people is sick and depraved and does nothing but grave harm to the Palestinian cause.
It should also go without saying that the mass killing of innocent Palestinians by Netanyahu's forces is now doing nothing but grave harm to the Israeli cause.
We are 19 months into this war.
It began as a justified response to an appalling terror attack.
But it's become a senseless program of punishment by starvation and extermination.
It has to stop.
Last week, former Israeli Prime Minister Ehud Omar accused his country of committing war crimes in damning remarks that made global headlines.
And he joins me now.
Ehud Omar, thank you very much indeed for joining me on Uncensored.
You made some comments last week which as you know generated a huge amount of attention.
I happened to be in the Middle East at the time and they were the main news item for several days.
First of all, let me just ask you, what has the reaction been from where you sit now to what you said?
Have you been surprised, not surprised?
I get mixed comments.
There are many, many, many Israelis that call me, thank me, message me, thanking me for speaking up for them, for what they think and what they feel.
And they are anxious that there will be a voice coming from Israel which will be different from the voice of Bengvir and Smotrich and Netanyahu and the group of thugs which is now part of the Israeli cabinet.
And I think that this is something which I consider to be very important, that the international community, guys everywhere that watch you, that watch other channels, will know that there are many Israelis that were absolutely in favor of the Israeli counter-offensive on the 7th of October and since then for a long time for good reasons.
Because Hamas murders had to be reached out and eliminated and we did a great job for almost 20 months.
But the time has come to stop it and this is the time.
And the fact that the government continues this operation, when everyone knows that there is not any purpose that can be achieved by an expanded military operation, that Israeli soldiers are going to be killed, that we are going to lose the hostages, which is the primary, the most superior objective that there should be for us to save them.
And that also non-involved Palestinians will be killed.
This is something which is unacceptable.
And this is what I try to say.
And I hear the other voices coming from Israel as well.
Of course, I'm criticized.
The poison machine of Netanyahu is working day and night to oppose me and to slander me, which is expected.
I'm not intimidated.
One of the sticks they use to beat you in terms of criticism is that, of course, you were convicted of receiving bribes and you went to prison for that.
What does it have to do?
Well, no, I'm just saying that's one of the criticisms that people use against you this week has been why should they use against me?
They use against me this all the time.
I'm not going to run into this, certainly not at a time when the Israeli prime minister, present prime minister of Israel, who is defended by some, is facing charges of bribe and whatnot for a court case which runs already for four or five years.
So that has nothing to do with the question of whether or not we should continue the war now.
Yeah, just to be to be clear, to be clear, just to be clear, it wasn't coming from me.
I'm repeating what, as you know, has been one of the criticisms that people have leveled at you to try and silence you.
They say, well, why should we listen to this guy?
What do you say to them?
Those who don't want to listen to me, they can shut up the televisions or the radios or don't read my articles.
The fact is that there is a demand precisely for this because people know that when I was prime minister, things were done in an entirely different way.
I was never, by the way, indicted or even inquired about anything personal that I did at the time of prime ministership.
So my record as prime minister is completely clean.
And it will be a waste of time to even plunge into this kind of controversies.
Those who don't want to listen to me, don't listen.
Those who want to listen to me, and there are quite a few in Israel, and I believe overseas they get reactions from across the world after watching me, probably now even more after watching with you, but at CNN, at ABC, at NBC, at other places.
And they entirely sympathize with what I have to say.
When you say that Israel's forces are now committing war crimes, that's obviously a very serious charge.
Do you believe that this will inevitably now end up in the international criminal courts at the Hague?
Well, again, up until recently, there was an international consensus that the Israeli operation was inevitable and acceptable and justified.
And I entirely subscribe to this, as most of the Israelis did for obvious reasons, because of what happened on the 7th of October and the continued consistent war of terror that was perpetrated by Hamas for years and years and years,
which was culminated on the 7th of October by this mass killing of innocent people in their homes, in the living rooms, in the bedrooms, in their safe rooms, raping, butchering, beheaded, beheading people, mothers, children, elderly people.
The Israeli reaction was inevitable and acceptable.
It was endorsed by the international leadership, you know, Joe Biden, Riché Sonak, President Macron, Chancellor Schultz, and so many others.
But 20 months passed since then.
Everything that can be achieved by a military operation has been achieved.
And tens of thousands of Palestinians were killed.
Probably a large number of them were fighters of Hamas and they deserve the punishment, okay?
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But thousands were not.
And now the question is, what else can we achieve by expanding the military operation which can justify the cost?
The cost for us, the cost for the hostages, and the cost of non-involved Palestinians.
And the feeling is that we have come to a point where a leadership decision has to be made to stop it.
And the majority of Israelis believe that Netanyahu carries on and wants to expand it not because of any national interest that justifies it, but because of political considerations.
What is it if not a crime?
So do you think he should be at The Hague one day for this?
Look, there should be a voice.
And if as a result of the fact that I was prime minister and I'm fairly well known in the international community, that people want to hear what I have to say, I have to say it.
Yes.
I'm prepared.
I'm ready to.
I'm already in the middle of the heat, you know, of those who oppose me.
But I think I should do that.
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Netanyahu's Political Motivations Exposed 00:09:41
It seems to me, and I don't know what your assessment would be, but it seems to me that Benjamin Netanyahu has been hijacked by some very right-wing people like Smodrix, Bengevir and others in this cabinet, who have always spoken in a kind of genocidal language about their aspirations for what should happen in Gaza and to the Palestinian people.
And that Netanyahu has been dragged, as you say, for more for personal motivational reasons to their way of thinking, because he knows the moment the war is over, then he will be held accountable for what happened on October the 7th.
And secondly, he will be facing a corruption trial himself, as you said.
So there's no motivation for him to end the war.
And now it seems that the whole attitude from the Israeli government is being fueled and driven by these very right-wing people like Smodrich and Bengevir, who really do want to see all the Palestinians out of Gaza.
They want to see the Palestinians out of Gaza in order to resettle there.
They don't want to see them deported because they want to prepare the ground for a Trump Tower hotel, as maybe some interpreted statements of President Trump to mean.
They want it because they want to resettle there, and this is part of their grand design.
They want to do the same in the West Bank.
Already now, they are inspiring the hilltop youth, which I call the atrocious youth, for almost daily attacks against Palestinians in the West Bank, Palestinian Arabs in the West Bank.
And they are burning their groves, olive groves.
They are burning their homes.
They are attacking people.
They are killing people.
This is totally obnoxious and something that can't be tolerated.
And unfortunately, it's tolerated because the fact is that it continues.
And in most cases, the ones that are arrested are the victim Palestinians, it's not the Israeli attackers.
And this is part of what I am campaigning against.
Now, the question that you have outlined is whether Bibi is captive by these guys.
He's willingly captive.
It's not something that he's fighting against, that he's trying to stop.
He is willingly captive by these messianic, extreme, fundamentalist right-wingers, supporters of Jewish terror, because it's true that this is probably the only escape he has from what awaits to him,
but also because the fact is that for the last 15 years, Netanyahu was the guy that ignored the Palestinian Authority, which was a potential partner for peace negotiations, and was supporting Hamas, the financing of Hamas through Qatar,
but with the agreement, support and cooperation of the Prime Minister of Israel, was the thing that changed the balance in Gaza and allowed the Hamas to build a network of tunnels and the infrastructure for war.
So this has been the policy of the Prime Minister of Israel for a long time.
Until the 7th of October, it could be argued that somehow there was not an evidence of what may be the terrible outcome of this policy.
But after the 7th of October, I think a large number of Israelis understand what was the tragic consequences of this reckless, irresponsible, preacher's policy of the Israeli Prime Minister.
And finally, I have to say on this point that it's true that he is presently, because he's captive by the right-wing messianic groups and he still entertains a majority in parliament, he can carry on.
But already now, according to all the polls that are run almost on a daily basis, the majority of the Israelis, not only that they don't support him, they don't trust his motivation.
They say explicitly and loudly that they think that he prefers personal considerations over the national interests of the state of Israel.
And that's precisely why people like me, in spite of the possible reactions by all kinds of oppositioners, are prepared to step up, come forward, and call it out by its name, because it's a time that the international community will know that there are different voices from Israel.
The voices of compassion, the voices of compromise, the voices of peace, the voices of dignity, the voices of care for human lives, also when there are not Israeli human lives, but also non-involved Palestinians.
Netanyahu won't do this, but should he resign?
Should have resigned long ago.
He should resign any moment.
He should resign now while we speak.
I think the only contribution that he can make to the well-being of the state of Israel, and perhaps also across the board for the Jewish people, is for him not only to resign but to disappear from the landscape of our political and public life.
Finally, obviously America still holds a lot of sway with Netanyahu and the Israeli government.
Should Donald Trump be doing more to stop him?
Is he the only person that can actually stop Netanyahu now?
Mr. Morgan, I have to say I entirely agree with your judgment.
And I want to add something.
You know, it is entirely irrelevant what people may have thought about Trump as a president, whatever.
I think that at this point, he is the voice of restraint and of reason.
And the impression that I have, and I must say, I know all the previous presidents of the United States, I've known them for years.
Him, I don't know, I haven't had any contact with him ever.
But he impresses me as the only guy at this point that can make a change of direction, which will be enormously helpful to the real national interest of the state of Israel.
He has to understand at this point that the most significant expression of support for the state of Israel and the Jewish people is by him summoning Netanyahu into the Oval Office, put him on a seat that Netanyahu likes very much together with him in front of the cameras, and tell him, Netanyahu, enough is enough.
He can do it, and it will be supported by the entire international community.
President Macron, Prime Minister Stamer, Chancellor Mertz, all the others, Prime Minister Khani from Canada, all of them already spelled it out.
It's now time for President Trump, with the enormous power of persuasion that he possesses, to say to Netanyahu, that's all.
Enough is enough for the good of the people of Israel, for the good of the chances for peace with the Palestinians.
Ehud Omer, thank you very much indeed.
I really appreciate you coming on Uncenson.
Thank you, sir.
Thank you.
Listening to what Israel's former Prime Minister had to say was retired Lieutenant Colonel and former IDS spokesman, Jonathan Conrickus, and the founder and CEO of the Young Turks, Cheng Hugo, welcome to both of you.
Jonathan, we've talked a lot since October the 7th on this show, and I've always admired the fact that you come on and you will sometimes, to my eyes, defend the indefensible, but you give it a good go.
Can you in all conscience defend what has been happening since the implementation particularly of the blockade, which was effectively a sanctioned starvation program of many US Palestinians?
Yeah.
Hello again, Piers.
Nice to be on.
I will, of course, answer that, but I think I would like, with your permission, to reflect on what Ehud Olamel said, because there are very grave accusations.
And I think the most important part of his politically motivated accusations, which many Israelis probably would agree with some or other parts of it, but the substance of it and basically his ticket to the show is saying Israel is committing war crimes.
And when you asked him what his evidence for this is and why he says such a grave thing, he brushed it by and he didn't substantiate it with everything.
And I think that's worthy of pause.
And if we want to be serious in the discussion here and not only have an internal Israeli political debate between two former political rivals, which is the context of Ehud Olmert and Netanyahu, then I think we have to be serious.
And I clearly today believe that while the IDF for sure has made mistakes on the battlefield, categorically has not been conducting war crimes.
Former PMs Criticize Current Policy 00:07:33
And all the talk and hyperbole and nonsense and false claims and allegations and Hamas's media propaganda that we see up until this minute as we're speaking, I think are fueled not by the pursuit of truth and not by anything that is something that we should espouse to,
but really motivated at trying to force Israel to its knees and to stop Israel from fighting and to for Israel not to be able to defeat its enemy.
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But Jonathan, Jonathan, let me jump in.
Let me jump in.
The problem you have is that if this was all coming from the pro-Palestinian lobby, then, okay, fine.
You could respond the way you just have.
But you don't just have one former Israeli prime minister saying all this.
You have two.
You've got Ehu Barak as well, who's come out very powerfully denouncing what this government is doing.
They're not even the same politics, the two Ehuds.
So you've got two recent former prime ministers of Israel who are condemning in the most strong language imaginable what your country's government is doing.
That is the problem.
It's not outside voices.
It's not me.
It's not Palestinians.
It's not Chenk, who I'm sure in a moment will respond in his normal, inimitable fashion.
This is two former Israeli prime ministers.
Yes, these are two former Israeli prime ministers who have political vendettas against Netanyahu, which many Israelis share.
I'll put myself out of the context of the political situation, but I will say this.
These two people have also been campaigning against Netanyahu before the war and during the war.
And I know from personal experience that nothing gets you a redder carpet in international media than an Israeli hoping and gladly bashing Israeli politics.
I've seen it and experienced it myself that the moment that I was willing to criticize Israeli government or the IDF on TV, red carpets and open doors everywhere.
The moment that I indicated that in fact I was not going to be bashing Israeli politics and I was not going to slander the IDF or the Israeli government, whether I agree in whole or I don't agree with the Israeli government or whether I feel that they represent me or not, but I wasn't going to criticize it on TV, then doors started closing.
And I think that what Ehud Olmert is enjoying is that very warm embrace of the so-called international community, which is happy to have an Israeli of importance critical of Israel and to give him a point of view.
And I think that is not entirely fair.
And yes, there are points that Ehud Olmert and Barak are making that are valid.
I as an Israeli have questions and I am not happy with how long this war has been going on.
I would have wanted for us to decide the war a long time ago, to have defeated Hamas a long time ago, to have started to distribute food and to do what we're doing now, to have done that half a year or a year ago.
That would have hastened the demise of Hamas.
That would have pulled the rug underneath the feet and that would have alleviated civilian suffering in Gaza.
And I think that is what we should have been doing.
And my criticism to my government is what took you so long?
Why didn't we do this earlier?
And why didn't you, Prime Minister and the cabinet, create the conditions, the international conditions necessary to do this earlier?
Why have my fellow countrymen been in Hamas captivity for more than 600 days?
And I think there's a lot of criticism in Israel towards the decisions by the Israeli government.
But I think that Ehud Olmert and Ehud Barak are politically motivated and they should be taken into the context of political rivals of Netanyahu.
Okay, Chenk Yugi, you've been waiting very patiently, albeit your facial expressions have revealed that you're not entirely agreeing with everything you've just heard.
So over to you.
Yeah, of course what he's saying is total nonsense.
And I mean, if I understood him correctly, he said that he would have started starving the Palestinians a year and a half ago.
What a humanitarian.
All right, I agree completely with Ehud Olmert.
I saw him in Europe a couple of months ago.
He's actually working on a peace plan that I think is very, very workable and doable.
They could probably get it done immediately if they actually wanted peace.
In fact, Olmert was also the only person who offered a real and decent peace plan back in 2008.
So currently, the real question here, and you touched on it a little bit in your interview, Piers, but we really don't talk about it nearly enough.
What is the goal of the Israeli government?
So the goal, I don't think, is just genocide for genocide's sake.
They're doing the genocide and the ethnic cleansing to steal Gaza.
So you can call it a different word.
You can say acquisition, conquest, as they have in their Knesset and in their cabinet meetings.
They say, we're going to conquer Gaza.
They have a map of Greater Israel.
And right now, by the way, they're in southern Lebanon and western Syria.
So they keep attacking, conquering, killing, starving.
And all the while, by the way, in the West, saying, we're the victims.
I mean, look at all these Arab countries we invaded and took their land and subjugated their people for 58 straight years.
But you see how we're the victims.
And this brother over here is claiming that the red carpet rolls out for you if you criticize Israel.
Well, brother, I got news for you.
That's not what happens in America at all.
You potentially get arrested, deported, canceled.
Your job career prospects are nullified.
And people like Bill Ackman proudly say, I have a blacklist of anyone who dared to oppose Israel and I will make sure they never get a job in Wall Street.
It's disgusting.
It's the exact opposite of what he claims.
And of course, if you ever dare to support innocent Palestinians, you'll get smeared in eight different ways.
And so, look, are they going to conquer Gaza and take it for themselves?
And this was never about self-defense.
Or are they, oh, so worried about terrorism and they can't wait to get out and get to peace?
No, get real.
The Israeli government has no interest in peace.
They have blocked every single ceasefire deal on the premise that no, we will continue the war after the ceasefire.
Israel Denies Intent to Steal Gaza 00:15:46
So, well, that makes no sense.
Why would the other side, I want them to release the hostages.
I think it's terrible what Hamas did on October 7th and terrible that they took hostages.
But if you're being realistic, why would the other side say, yes, I'll give you the hostages back so that you could go back to murdering and slaughtering and conquering Gaza 60 days later?
That makes no sense at all.
So we have to resolve.
And the Israeli government must be asked over and over again because they've already declared it publicly.
So there's actually no question about it whatsoever.
This is not a war of defense.
This is a war of conquest.
I didn't say that.
The Israeli government said that.
So let's call them out for who they are.
They're a empire who has done terrorism to seize land and they've starved people to death.
It's like the Germans going into the Sudetenland.
Let's be honest about it for once in our lives.
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Yeah, I mean, Jonathan, you know, I'll get you to respond, but when you look at what Smodric said last week that was on camera, the intent is crystal clear as far as he's concerned.
And when I put to the Israeli ambassador to the UK in a very heated interview that we did last week, that he was effectively articulating a form of genocide, indisputably, because he wanted to clear out every Palestinian from Gaza and take it for Israel.
She emphatically denied what we'd all heard with our own ears.
She then emphatically denied that Israel had killed any children.
She then told me exactly how many Hamas terrorists the IDF had killed, 30,000, but she couldn't tell me even a ballpark figure of how many children had been killed in the process, which I found a quite extraordinary response, where she knew one figure very precisely, almost like the IDF only count the Hamas terrorists they kill.
They don't count any of the civilians they kill, which I just do not believe.
And if it is true, that seems despicable to me.
But she was in complete denial.
And, you know, my original question for you before you responded to what the former prime minister said was, when you see a policy of a blockade, which can only be construed for what it is, which is a policy of starving the people of Gaza, and we're now seeing these terrible scenes where food arrives and thousands of Palestinians race and fight each other to try and get it.
And I don't know who killed them and wounded them the other day.
I know it was reported by Reuters and others that it was IDF.
The IDF emphatically denied it.
They said it must have been Hamas and so on.
We don't know, but the main reason we don't know, Jonathan, which is another of my massive bugbears about this, is that the IDF still refuses to let international journalists go and do their job and verify this stuff for themselves, unlike in every other war zone there's ever been.
So for a number of reasons, this Israel government's policy right now has completely lost people like me that were very prepared, as you know, and as Chenk knows, for a long time to defend Israel's right to defend itself.
This has gone way past defending the people of Israel.
This has moved now to taking control of Gaza, kicking all the Palestinians out, starving civilians if necessary for the last three months.
And when it comes to the killing of children, there have been an estimated, I don't know the exact number, but an estimated 20,000 or more children have been killed in this war so far.
For Israel to deny that is to deny the obvious, isn't it?
Okay, so a lot to unpack.
I would like to respond to what Cenk said before, but I think you touched upon an issue which I think is key, and that is the whole issue of intention, one issue, and the second one being the humanitarian one.
Now, I'll remind you and Chenk, and I'll remind everybody watching that Israel was not occupying five points in southern Lebanon, was not deploying troops in southwestern Syria along the Israeli border, and definitely did not have any troops inside Gaza on October 6th.
We were attacked from all those fronts by various terrorist organizations that very clearly sought to conduct genocide of Israelis in their homes.
And I think this is a very important thing.
Well, I completely agree.
Yeah, I think we should recognize this.
Of course.
And I think we should recognize it because that is how we started.
Second thing, with comments that Minister Metalis Motich did or didn't make, I've heard many of his comments.
And I'll tell you that personally, I do not agree with many of them.
And I would say that while he, as a minister and as member of a cabinet, certainly has influence, based on the actions on the ground by the IDF in almost a year and a half of fighting, I wouldn't say that that is the real policy enacted on the ground.
I will not deny that there are parts of Israeli society, democratically elected, that espouse certain types and have certain feelings towards Palestinians.
I do not think that that is what the IDF is executing on the ground because had that been hang on.
Jonathan, hang on.
Just on that point, on that one point, I want to touch on humanitarianism.
Let's come to that.
Let me just jump in.
I need to challenge you when you say something that gets my hackles up.
The idea the IDF is not pursuing this policy, when the IDF is systematically destroying Gaza, you know, 70% of Gaza reportedly has been destroyed.
Again, this cannot be completely.
Well, there's good reason for it, Piers.
Well, hang on, hang on.
I'm going to come to you.
There's a good reason for this.
Hang on, Jonathan, let me finish.
When you destroy 70% of a place like Gaza and you reduce the population to a shuffling herd of people moved from pillar to post with no home, who are being bombarded on a nightly basis by the IDF from the air, who are, as we saw last week, just a family of nine children out of ten are killed in one of these airstrikes.
And you're starving them from a three-month blockade, right?
You put it all together.
No, we're not starving.
Everything you said, I agree, but we're not starving.
Okay, but we'll come to that.
And I want to speak about the humanitarianism.
Okay, and you can, when I just finish the point, you say, you know, Smodric may or may not have said this.
He indisputably said what we heard him say.
And he's not just any old minister.
He's the finance minister for the Israeli government.
He's one of the most powerful people in the country.
And he's been one of the most vocal people in that government from the start of this war.
So the idea he's not a driving influence for this government is for the birds.
No, I don't think so.
And I think that, yes, as I said and acknowledge, he definitely has influence.
And I will agree with you.
I'll correct myself.
He has significant influence over Israeli politics and over the stability of the Israeli coalition.
Having said that, when I judge and when I analyze what the IDF has been doing on the ground, I can explain and justify very easily why so many structures in Gaza have been destroyed.
And it is directly linked to military necessity.
Each and every house that Israeli troops have encountered has had military infrastructure in it.
Each and every mosque, each and every hospital.
Some, not all, but single.
Jonathan, that cannot be true.
It cannot be true that every single thing is.
You'll say this.
Hang on, just to be clear.
No, not every single.
You said every house they have encountered in Gaza has contained military infrastructure.
That is obviously not true.
Obviously, you know, based on what, Piers?
I can tell you that.
Based on the fact that there have been thousands of civilians killed in homes with no military infrastructure.
I would disagree with you.
And I would say this: the amount, the percentage of so-called civilian houses in Gaza that Hamas has used, either for the placement of weapons or for the location of fighters, otherwise known as terrorists, or for infrastructure or for collecting intelligence, is tremendous.
You wouldn't, I understand that you refuse to believe it because the number of people.
How can we believe it when the IDF won't let journalists or the government won't let journalists from outside of Gaza go in to examine this stuff?
Cheng, your response to this.
Piers, here you and I are in agreement.
Well, yeah, but it remains a scandal that international journalists are prohibited from going in.
It is a scandal, and it makes it very hard to believe, frankly, anything that the IDF now say.
Because how can we verify it?
Well, you know, they launched their own inquiry.
What I think is a scandal, Piers.
Well, go on.
I think what is a scandal is how international media, including in the last 36 hours, have been taking and regurgitating Hamas propaganda and talking points and reporting.
Well, I have your introduction.
Anything in your introduction.
Okay, but I didn't.
On your introduction, Piers, you made a very correct connection between events in Israel and events in the U.S. and in Western Europe where we see anti-Israeli propaganda and hatred spewed in international.
Come on, give it a rest.
In real world, yes.
Yeah.
And by the way, I haven't heard you, Mr. Champion and Progressive Leader, condemn any of the terrorist attacks against Israelis.
Let me ask Cheng that very quickly.
Jonathan, I gave you a long chance to respond.
All right.
Check, would you like first of all to address that point?
By the way, do I get a half an hour to respond to all of his nonsense?
But go ahead.
Go ahead.
Well, first of all, your response to the attacks that have been happening on Jewish people in America.
Yeah, it's disgusting.
It's immoral.
It's stupid.
It's counterproductive.
I loathe it.
So I'm for peace.
I'm against you.
You didn't waste five minutes to write about this on Twitter or to speak about it.
You didn't waste a minute to speak about it out of your own volition.
No, you didn't.
I talked before coming to the house.
This genocidal freak is talked for half an hour straight.
And Piers, do you see how every time I go to talk, the Israeli propagandists talk over me?
Hey, Jonathan, you must let him respond now.
Every day he's talking about it.
Jonathan, I gave you a long chance.
And when I go to speak, they talk over me.
Let Chenk speak because I gave you a question.
I just think you're being discontinued.
Jonathan, I gave you a long chance to say you're not afraid of the people.
No, shut up, Jonathan.
Jesus Christ.
Let Chenk respond, please.
No, I'm not going to take shut up from the Jesus and you sit on high horses.
Okay, here we go.
Do you see Jonathan?
Do you see this, Pierce?
You haven't.
This is Israeli propaganda.
I'll remain calm, but understand that every time I say Israeli propagandists that you bring in continue to talk over here, Jonathan, let him speak.
You have done it every single time.
Jonathan, he'll be.
Unless you get this Israeli propagandist to stop talking.
Let Chenk speak because he let you speak, Jonathan.
Chenk.
Okay, so he's obviously trying to defend the terrorism of Israel.
They have killed over 20,000 children.
So are they the most incompetent military in the world?
Oh, golly, gee, we missed 20,000 times or are they doing it on tourism?
Do you remember in the beginning of the conflict?
So here we go.
Here we go.
Okay, so do you remember in the beginning of the conflict when they pretended to be outraged that there was an accusation that Israel had hit a hospital?
They're like, how could you say this?
Israel would never do such a thing.
They have now destroyed 20 out of the 22 hospitals in Gaza.
Totally leveled them.
Do you remember that?
Why?
Because they want to make life unlivable in Gaza.
Because they are terrorists.
That is part of the reason why I abhor violence.
I hated what happened on October 7th.
He makes it sound like October 6th was perfectly lovely.
No, October 6th is when Israel continued to have a 57-year brutal occupation of the Palestinians, demeaning and basically enslaving the Palestinians for 58 years now.
When are you going to let them go?
You have five and a half million hostages, those Palestinians under the thumb of despotic Israeli rule.
So now Smotrich says, look, we were happy starving them to death, and that's what I would like to have done.
But it's bad optics for us.
So we have to bring them to the brink of starvation so that the West will continue to let us do what we're doing, which is the genocide of ethnic cleansing of Gaza.
These are indisputable facts.
Now, when you include women, you took over 30,000 innocent women and children, a stadium full of dead bodies brought to you by the IDF.
The IDF is murdering those people every day.
By the way, they've killed a dozen Americans.
And both the Biden administration and the Trump administration goes, ah, Americans, a 14-year-old boy who grew up in New Jersey was just murdered by the IDF in the West Bank.
And both Trump and Biden go, as long as the money's coming in from AIPAC, I'll let you murder any American you like.
I'll let you murder any Palestinian you like.
And let's be honest.
Hey, brother, Jonathan, why don't you tell me here?
I'll let you talk now and give your BS Israeli propaganda as you claim the worldwide media and the U.S. media are too harsh of Israel.
You're giving Israel a pass on everything.
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They held Israel to the same standard as Hamas.
Right now, the whole world and the whole media would do nothing but condemn Israel.
They have killed over 400 times the number of children that Hamas has killed.
The IDF is the biggest terrorist in the world right now.
Future Security After Hamas Defeat 00:15:30
So tell me, are you going to take Gaza and prove me right that this was always a genocidal attack on Palestinians to steal their land?
Or are you going to withdraw from Gaza and go to a two-state solution?
I want a safe and peaceful Israel.
I want a safe and peaceful and immature Palestine.
Somehow I doubt that.
Somehow I doubt that you want to save the people.
Are you planning to steal Gaza?
Answer the question.
Say, do you want to steal Gaza somehow?
Or are you going to give Gaza back to the Palestinians?
I guarantee you he says that he is not going to give it back to Israel of Jews living in their ancestral homeland where they have 3,500 years of documented archaeological history.
I doubt that this is your real motivation because, as I said, I think you are untruthful.
If you would have cared about the lives of Americans, you would have condemned the terror attack on a Christian American who happened to be working at the Israeli embassy.
And you would have said that these Palestinian terrorists or Palestinian-induced terrorists are horrible and despicable and harmful and all of the other window-dressing words that you're talking about.
You condemned all of those, but you would have done it out of your own vocation.
And you didn't because you don't believe in it.
I did.
And because you, sir, are you not?
Actually, he has condemned it.
I don't know whether you've been reading Cheng's.
Look at X-ray.
I don't know whether you've checked his ex-feed, but Jonathan, he has condemned all of these attacks.
I've seen it.
Chenk has condemned them all.
I'm simply not conditioned.
I actually checked before I came online and I have an ex-right.
You didn't check long enough.
You asked about Gaza.
Yeah.
Yeah.
You asked about Gaza.
What I think will happen in Gaza, and I'll tell you now we're in June 2025.
I think that for the coming months, maybe a year or two, my assessment is, based on military logic, is that the IDF will indeed conquer and hold the Gaza Strip.
As no surprise here, is what happens usually at the end of main combat operations in any war, the winning side, which despite what you and many other people want, will be Israel.
Israel will defeat Hamas and Israel will take and hold over that piece of terrain and for a transition period, which I as an Israeli hope will be as short and as benign as possible.
Yes, a transition period, just like the Allied powers did in Nazi Germany after the Second World War, and just like many other winning militaries have done at the end of main combat operations.
There is always a transition period.
At the end of that transition period, I hope they independent.
Yes, I hope for there to be independent Palestinian governance that isn't Hamas and that isn't the PA that supports and funds terrorists and give them stipends, but other type of Palestinian government that says our goal in life is to care about Palestinian children.
Our goal in life is the future and the future prospects of us as a people and the region.
That is what I hope that this war will bring about.
I fear that it will take many months and probably years until we see the early signs of that happening.
But I hope, and I'm pretty confident that we will not see any Israeli no, because I want to, I'm truthful and I want to keep it forever.
Your transition for years and years and years and your standard is until they love all Israelis.
We will enslave them and take their land.
Not at all.
That's the Israeli answer at all times.
The only ones that had genocidal attacks.
You just said it.
You're going to take Gaza.
You just said it.
You're going to take Gaza and you're going to keep it for years and years.
You just said it.
Yes, you just said it.
The whole point was always offensively.
I mean, to take Gaza the Palestinians so you can take more land.
How much land are we going to let Israel take with our money?
With our money.
Hey, Jonathan, why don't you give us the 300 billion back?
Give me the 300 billion back.
I don't want to fund it.
I'm an American taxpayer.
Give me the goddamn money.
I'm not funding anything.
If you're doing anything, you're not funding.
Yes, I am.
I'm unfortunately funding the genocide.
Hamas.
You're not going to be able to get your sick brothers and so on.
You are giving us militating terror attacks against Jews.
That's the only thing that you could be held accountable.
Nonsense.
But I don't know.
You're literally murdering Palestinians and cheering it on as we speak.
You love violence.
You absolutely love violence.
I believe in violence.
You're the person who causes attacks like this.
All right, let me ask you a question.
All right, time out.
Time out.
I think timeout against violence.
Time out.
I want to ask Jonathan a question.
Jonathan, Jonathan, from a military perspective, because I know that's an area of expertise for you.
From a military perspective, it seems to me that the mission statement...
I mean, you say you think this is all going well and they're going to win the war and they're going to take over Gaza and so on.
I didn't say it's going well, Pierce.
I don't think it's going well at all.
Apart from anything else, the most powerful military in the Middle East has been incapable of dismantling a bunch of terrorists now for 20 months.
Hamas is still very much alive and well.
The remaining hostages have not been freed, which of course is disgraceful.
And of course they should be.
But the bombardment continues.
Two-thirds of Gaza is now in ruins.
Presumably the rest will be reduced to rubble if this carries on as well.
And yet all the intelligence that the American military are getting is that actually, far from eliminating Hamas, all that's been happening is for every Hamas terrorist who's been killed, the ideology has been replaced by four or five more people, which seems to me to be an abject failure.
If that is even happening at half the rate, then you're creating more of a problem going forward for Israel security than you had at the start of this.
How can any of this be construed as a military success?
Well, as I said before, I am not happy and so are many other Israelis with the pace and the actions of this war and in how long it has taken for Israel to defeat Hamas.
And, you know, I've heard reports and I've seen them circulated by all kinds of people with political interest, usually not those aligned with Israel, who quote those reports.
And I've seen conflicting reports.
I'd say this.
I would have wanted for this war against Hamas to be swifter, for less Israelis to have been wounded, for us to have been much more successful in releasing and rescuing our hostages earlier, and for our negotiations to have been much better and prioritizing the release of hostages faster.
And I would have wanted Hamas defeated at a lower cost for the civilian population in Gaza.
Sadly, we are 600 days after Hamas's attack on Israel, where my people have been held as hostages.
And yes, people in Gaza have been suffering.
And I would like to see that suffering end quicker than it has been going on.
But if you ask me, what do I want to see more?
What I want to see is for Israel to emerge victorious and to defeat Hamas, to defeat Hamas and to protect Israelis living around the Gaza area and for that area to be safe.
As long as Hamas exists, it won't be safe for Israelis.
And Israel cannot stop until Hamas is defeated.
And what I think is so extremely sad and cynical is that there's such a big chorus and an alignment of organizations and countries who claim to be supporting the Palestinians.
But by supporting Hamas, what they do is that they're just extending the war.
They're extending the suffering.
Instead of helping Israel distribute food, they're obfuscating it.
Instead of helping Israel crush Hamas and defeat them and get the war done and over with, they're forcing Israel to work slower and to take longer time in order to defeat them.
At the end of the day, the truth is that Hamas has to be defeated.
Hamas has to be defeated for there to be any kind of future, positive future for Israelis and also for Palestinians in Gaza.
There is no future for Palestinians in Gaza as long as Hamas is there.
And the sooner organizations and leaders and media pundits and self-appointed humanitarians understand this and get with supporting Israel instead of supporting, indirectly supporting Hamas, the better it will be for Palestinians.
All right, Cheng, your response.
Yes.
So if you remember, Piers, long time ago, you asked me right in the beginning of the conflict, what would I do instead?
And I talked about sending a special force into Gaza, but then you make a peace deal with the Palestinian Authority and use them to drive out Hamas from Gaza.
So nobody wants Hamas in Gaza.
So that's just pure Israeli propaganda, right?
So, and is there a way to do that?
Now, actually, over 50 countries in the Arab League have said we will help to do that, drive out Hamas from Gaza, and we will pay for the reconstruction of Gaza.
And Israel doesn't want it.
They say no to every single peace deal.
Why?
Because they don't want peace.
So this brother admitted that, yes, they plan on taking Gaza.
That was the point all along.
And then he says this absurdity about maybe many, many, many years later, if the Palestinians are good boys and girls and have now declared their love and allegiance for their occupiers, then we will give it back.
That's obviously a joke.
They're never ever going to take it.
I'll interrupt you because you falsified the people.
The whole point of this was to steal down to our fancy.
Here's the taking care of the people.
And here's the thing.
I told you that from day one.
And when I said they were going to take Gaza, people said, oh, no, that's ridiculous.
They're not going to take Gaza.
Now they admit we are going to take Gaza.
But the most important part of this is January 19th.
They set up this undoable standard.
It's known as the state.
Okay, let's, John.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Jonathan, let me finish.
So they say until we finish Gaza, we have to keep going and we have to take more of their land and ethnically cleanse them more.
So, but how do we know?
It's a purposely undoable standard.
How do we know if all of Hamas is dead?
First of all, they don't allow any journalists in, as you pointed out.
In fact, they've murdered more journalists than all other conflicts in the world combined.
And it's not an accident.
There's sniper shots.
By the way, against the Palestinian American citizen journalist, a sniper shot from hundreds of yards away shot her in the neck to murder her.
So they murder journalists.
They don't allow international journalists in because they don't want you to know this has nothing to do with self-defense.
We were right all along to take Gaza.
And their excuse is Hamas is never finished.
Since Hamas has never finished, and we never agreed to a ceasefire or a peace deal that would push Hamas out, we have to keep murdering Palestinians.
And Hamas made us do it.
Hamas didn't make you do it.
You are morally responsible for the genocide, the terrorism, and the ethnic cleansing that you celebrate now, Jonathan.
And you're talking about taking that land and you're doing it for greed and your empire.
And you know, you are not doing it to help Israeli citizens and keep them safe.
And in fact, it makes Israel so much less safe because guys like this go, no, I want more land and I want conquest.
As he's got blood dripping from the corner of his mouth and then telling us about how he's against terrorism.
You're supporting mass thinkers and you're saying it doesn't count.
This is just Muslim liberty.
Hang on, hang on.
These are libels.
We've run out of time.
I will let you just respond quickly to this.
Yeah, but these are anti-Semitic tropes.
These are black libels.
Let me just ask you one question against Israelis.
I know.
Jonathan, if the thousands of Palestinian children speak about bigotry.
You made your point.
But, Jonathan, the problem you have when you try and say the plan is not to take everything over is right in the middle of all this last week, with Israel being branded a global pariah by many people, with two former prime ministers coming out condemning what they see as war crimes and so on.
Right in the middle of this, a story comes out out of nowhere that the Israeli government has sanctioned 22 new settlements in the West Bank.
Settlements that are widely considered by the international community to be illegal.
If that isn't a land grab, then what is it?
I'll tell you what I think many Israelis believe that it is.
And I think this crosses a few political divides in Israel.
And I'm sure that viewers will find this quite interesting.
What many Israelis believe that that is, is that is a response to terror attacks against Israelis.
And many Israelis feel after October 7, specifically after October 7, is that sadly, there's very little currently, very sadly, little currently to be debating with Palestinians because their true nature, whether it is what you call the West Bank, many of them have been as people who are in the world.
That's the language of worship liars.
That's the language of land acquisition.
And they're not going to be able to do that.
I think you should be ashamed for their land acquisition.
Your monologue was a textbook monologue of the lowest kind of cheap, old, used anti-Semitic.
Yeah, yeah, as you murder nothing of 60,000 civilians.
You're lecturing me about despicable.
You're a cheerleader for terrorist hate and put on an outfit and beneath this show.
It is beneath any respectable show.
You're beneath the fact that you continue to sanction.
What you said is despicable.
I think you should be held accountable for you conquering Gaza and murdering all those Palestinian people.
Seduced environmental terrorists.
You're murdering your stadium full of women and children.
It's despicable.
That's anti-Semitic to point out.
If you're not sure about Israel, it's anti-Semitic.
No, it's not.
I'm going to bring this to an end.
And you, innocent, virtually have blood on your hands when you repeat these things.
Okay.
No, you are literally drenched in blood, brother.
You're drenched from head to toe.
Not drenched in anything.
If anything, I defend.
And I'm conandering.
That's the only thing that I can do.
All right, I'm going to bring it in.
Let's say what you stand for and who you defend.
Listen, but you guys are shouting at each other.
All right, I'm going to have to end it there.
Yeah, he's right.
I'm going to end it there.
But thank you both.
This guy wants to kill as many Palestinians as humanly possible.
He's a non-show.
He's totally covered in the only one who is killing Jews.
And he has happily murdered Palestinians.
Gentlemen, I'm going to have to leave it there because we have literally, we've run out of time.
I wish we had longer.
We don't, but I appreciate you both coming on uncensored.
Thank you very much.
Stop murdering Palestinians.
Yeah, right.
Go be truthful, you bigot.
Morgan Uncensored Final Thoughts 00:00:24
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