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May 27, 2025 - Uncensored - Piers Morgan
40:41
20250527_clearly-an-ethnic-cleansing-norman-finkelstein-vs-
Transcriber: nvidia/parakeet-tdt-0.6b-v2, sat-12l-sm, and large-v3-turbo
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Treating Palestinians Like Animals 00:05:51
We're left with no choice but to speak up.
Head injuries, amputations.
Some are, you know, many are burnt alive.
Show me the gas chambers.
You spoke about objectivity or something.
The man is a total Hamas propagandist.
Fully one half of Israeli Jews believe that Israel should conduct a genocide in Gaza.
That is a lie.
I know, Benny, Benny, everybody's lying.
We are looking at the Holocaust live on 4K screens, and our politicians, our human rights organizations, you'll help us.
It may not be the death of absolutely everybody, but it means killing a lot of Palestinians and kicking the rest out of the area.
And that is a genocide.
A genocide is something which is carried out systematically.
That's not what is happening.
They may even have a genocidal mentality, but they do not control government policy.
That's done by the generals and unfortunately, in my mind, by a man called Netanyahu, who's totally a corrupt and incompetent.
These 54 Palestinians were killed in two separate Israeli strikes overnight, including on a school which was sheltering displaced families.
Israel says they were targeted attacks on a Hamas command center, but it's now undeniable that the civilian death toll from the latest bombardments and blockade is intolerable.
The ugly ripples of this increasingly ugly war are still being felt across the whole world.
A young couple was shot dead outside a Jewish museum in Washington, D.C. on Wednesday.
Both were Israeli embassy staffers.
Suspected government, Elias Rodriguez, told officers, I did it for Palestine.
There's been a big reaction to what I said last week, with many of Israel's backers attacking me with the same venom that pro-Palestinians tend to do, and they don't like what I have to say the other way around.
So let me just be clear again.
I don't pick sides.
I try to follow the facts and call out extremism on both sides.
When facts change, so do my opinions.
And if your opinions don't change when facts change, then maybe you're the problem, not me.
What is clear to me is that what started as a justified war, Israel's right to defend itself against a horrific terrorist attack, has become something that has crossed any line.
And that is why this war has got to end and it has to end very soon.
In a moment, I'll talk to Benny Morris and Norman Finkelstein.
The first one year after he spoke to me from the hospitals inside Gaza, I'm joined by the American medic, Dr. Mossab Nasser.
Dr. Nasser, great to have you back on Uncensored, albeit in even more appalling circumstances than the last time we spoke.
Just tell me what it's like there right now in Gaza, what you're hearing, what you're seeing, what the reality is.
Because international journalists like me aren't allowed in.
As I keep berating Prime Minister Netanyahu, if you want people to believe what you're saying about this, let the international journalists in.
But they don't.
So we're reliant on very scant detail other than people like you who really know.
Well, thank you, Piers, for having me.
Again, it's been a year since we've talked.
I believe last time was May 2024 when I was actually at a European hospital in Gaza that was actually recently bombed and many, many civilians were killed in that attack.
You asked me how, you've asked me how it is in Gaza today.
The best example I can tell you as someone who lives in Texas is that the Israelis, unfortunately, or the Israeli army, treats the Palestinians in Gaza like animals.
Almost like the game hunting in a ranch in Texas, where you have these high-fenced ranches with exotic animals, where hunters go and chase these animals from one side of the fence to the other and kill these animals.
And that's unfortunately, how the Israeli army treats the Palestinians in Gaza today, like game, and you can actually see the gratification on the on their faces when they, you know, hunt a child or a woman or destroy a school or a kindergarten.
So it is um, it is very sad to see that we have reached this reality that uh, at this time in history uh, people are treated like animals and um, you know this is what we've heard at the beginning of the war that Palestinians are human animals and they have been treated as such for the past almost two years now, while the entire world is watching.
So probably this is the best example, as someone who lives in Texas and sees how hunters go to these ranches to to chase game.
That's what we see in Gaza today.
You have, I know, huge amounts of family and friends in Gaza.
How many, how many have lost their lives, people that are close to you?
Uh, so far personally, you know I I, my entire family, is in Gaza.
I've lost 74 members so far?
Um.
One of them is actually was my mother, um.
She died last year, um almost uh a year ago, and I just lost my nephew, who's 20 years old um uh had a life ahead of him uh, such a handsome intelligent, bright um young man uh who went again like like game in Texas.
He went to look for food for his family and he was targeted in Israeli airstrike and uh died of shrapnels in the uh in the, in the, in the chest uh and the head, and in fact, he died between uh his father's arms he he bled to death and by the time the the ambulance arrived to take him to the hospital, he was um he was declared dead.
Images of Genocide and Starvation 00:06:10
So this is the reality.
I mean, so far, 74 members of my family have been lost in this vicious war.
And I can tell you, Piers, as a Palestinian and, you know, you know, I lead a humanitarian organization and we try to be as much as we can in neutral and unbiased in our judgment.
But we're left with no choice but to speak up.
And I can tell you watching these images coming out of Gaza on a daily basis of children being amputated, malnourished, head injuries, amputations, some are.
you know, many are burnt alive.
Until last night, we've seen those images coming out of Gaza.
I can tell you, you know um, show me the gas chambers honestly uh, the the death in a gas chamber is a hundred times more merciful than being burnt alive in an Israeli fire.
That is the reality where we are today.
So we are looking at the holocaust live on 4k screens and our politicians, our human human right organizations, our celebrities are just watching and feel helpless.
I don't know if they endorse it or they can't speak up, but it's time to speak up.
You cannot just sit on the sidelines watching this horrific murder take place right in front of our eyes and then maybe 10 or 100 years from now say, well, we wish we've done something about it.
This is the time.
As you know, the Israeli argument has remained that they are on a mission to take out Hamas.
They say Hamas continue to operate and live amongst civilian populations.
And therefore, as they take out the terrorists with these strikes, they are inevitably going to kill civilians in the process.
But that doesn't make it an unjust or immoral war, that they are defending themselves against a terrorist attack of enormous and horrific scale.
And this is the only way that they can dismantle Hamas.
What is your response to them?
Piers, I think if that is really the case, that's the most failed military operation in history.
You have one of the most sophisticated armies in the world with the most sophisticated technologies.
They can go and surgically get the Hamas terrorists from Gaza or in Gaza if they want to.
But that is not the case.
What we see is deliberate targeting of schools, of homes.
My nephew was not a Hamas.
He's not even a Hamas sympathizer.
He went to look for food and he was killed, along with 24 innocent people like him who are waiting in line to get food for their families.
It's a trophy hunt.
It has absolutely nothing to do with Hamas today.
It is basically an obvious and clear ethnic cleansing.
And only someone that lives in denial or someone who's honestly completely crazy would believe otherwise.
Well, you know, I've resisted the call from many that it's a genocide on the basis that it seemed to me that Israel for a long time, I believed, had a fundamental right to defend itself.
And that's what they were doing.
I have to say, when I listened to Smodrich, one of the more right-wing of a very right-wing cabinet under Netanyahu talking the other day, he was talking in clear genocidal language.
It was unarguable.
And when you look at what's happening on the ground in Gaza, I don't see any plan other than the apparent total disintegration of all infrastructure there and the killing of as many people as possible, all under the pretext that they say that they're going after only going after Hamas and doing so in as humane a way as possible.
It just doesn't seem that what we're seeing on a daily basis and hearing on a daily basis represents that pretext at all.
And I also see no end game.
I don't understand what Israel's plan is here, other than what Smodric says it is, which is to clear everybody out, which is that that is genocide.
If you eradicate a people from their home based on ethnicity, that is a genocide.
So, you know, all those who've been calling it that, and I've been resisting, I've now been saying I find it almost impossible to disagree now, given what we're witnessing.
Well, you've come a long way, Piers.
And I admire you and I respect that you have really changed your position on what's happening in Gaza.
It's, as I said, it's obvious.
You can't really deny the fact that what's happening is a genocide.
What's happening is an ethnic cleansing of an entire population.
Are you still with me?
Yes, I am.
Yeah.
Yeah.
So it's undeniable.
You know, the mass starvation of children, the malnutrition that the children of Gaza are facing.
You know, we've just evacuated five children out of Gaza to Texas actually for treatment.
And one of them really straight to the ICU from Gaza, malnourished, broken bones, amputated arm.
It's horrific.
I carried those children between my arms all the way from Egypt, first evacuated from Gaza to Egypt and then to the US.
It's heartbreaking to see these children having to suffer that level of suffering for absolutely no reason.
This is not a war about Hamas.
This is not a war about Israel, defending itself.
This is simply a clear ethnic cleansing.
I am not a lawyer or an attorney to give a label for what's happening, but many of the historians, many of the lawyers have basically described what's happening in Gaza as a genocide.
And in fact, the food distribution plan that Israel is enforcing and forcing upon humanitarian organizations today clearly reflects that this is basically an ethnic cleansing of the Palestinians.
Having the Palestinian household or family members basically to go and pick their aid from a specific location that's highly fenced with checkpoints effectively, it's again, it's another reason for Israel to kidnap more Palestinians and for them to disappear forever.
Journalists Detained in Gaza 00:03:01
I still have many of my colleagues from Nasser Hospital have been kidnapped since the beginning of the war.
These doctors have never come back.
You know, Dr. Hassan Abu Safiya, he fought for his patients until the last second.
No one knows where his whereabouts.
All the news indicates that he's being tortured in Israeli jails.
Many, many amazing doctors had absolutely nothing to do with Hamas, just disappeared.
The targeting of journalists, targeting of aid workers, the targeting of children.
What does that have to do with Hamas?
And again, as I said, if you cannot defeat Hamas throughout all this time, almost what, 16, 17 months, to me, that's the most failed military operation in history.
Well, it's clearly not working because the hostages haven't been released.
They should be, absolutely should be, but they haven't been, which means the military operation by Israel's forces to secure their release just isn't working.
This strategy just does not work.
Listen, Dr. Nasser, it's great to talk to you.
Thank you for the work that you do.
I'm so sorry about the incredible loss to your family and your mother and your nephew and all the others that you've lost from your extended family in Gaza.
My heart goes out to you and to your family.
It's become an utterly horrific war, this, and it has to end.
But I thank you for joining me again.
Thank you, Pierce.
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Well, I'm going to be joined now by two people with very different views about the war, Professor Norman Finkelstein and Benny Morris, Israeli historian.
Well, welcome to both of you.
Benny Morris, my main question right now for Benjamin Netanyahu, I put it to him on X directly.
And I said, if you're doing everything by the book and everything is justified and everything is legal and you're not committing any war crimes or any of these things, I simply asked him one simple question.
If you're doing nothing wrong, let international journalists go in and see for themselves.
And I think it is completely shameful that the Israeli government continues to stop international journalists from doing their job.
And it's down to the individual risk assessment will be by the journalists and their companies.
It was put to me two, three days ago by an IDF member that somehow this has been done for the safety of the journalists.
It's not.
It's complete nonsense.
And that's not down to the Israeli government anyway to make that call.
I mean, do you at least accept that it is wrong that journalists are not allowed in there?
I completely agree with you, Pierce.
Netanyahu's Genocidal Intentions 00:06:11
The government has made a terrible mistake in not allowing journalists in, and whoever dies there dies, but they should have allowed them in.
But I would like to make a comment about what your previous guest was saying.
He said he spoke about objectivity or something.
The man is a total Hamas propagandist.
Half the things he said were outright lies.
Lots of doctors have been abducted and have disappeared.
It's total nonsense.
I know of one or two cases of doctors who were taken to an Israeli detention center.
What happened to them afterwards, I don't know.
I don't think they've been killed.
I think they're under arrest for whatever reason.
But many doctors have been...
Many doctors.
You're basically agreeing with him, aren't you?
No, I'm not.
I'm saying that he talked about...
You said you know of some doctors who were detained.
I know of one or two.
You're confirming his story.
No, I'm not.
I'm confirming a small part of what is true.
The rest is a lie, as is a large part of what he's saying.
Had Israel wanted to kill all the Palestinians, that's what genocide actually means, there would have been many, many, many more deaths in Gaza.
Each time Israel launches an air raid, we hear of the Palestinians saying 24 people have died, 30 people have died, and I'm sure many of them are civilians.
But I'm also sure that the Air Force going in against these targets is attacking Hamasniks.
We never hear from the Hamas how many of their people are being killed in these strikes.
All we hear about and all we see on television is dead babies and dead women.
They never show grown male, army-aged males being taken out of these ruins.
And the Hamas uses these things systematically, the schools, the hospitals, various so-called safe compounds to hide in.
Okay, but out of interest.
But out of interest.
All right, but Benny Morris, when you hear someone like Svodrich last week talking about the campaign to just clear everybody out.
It's disgusting.
You don't have to convince me.
He's disgusting.
Right, but my question for you, though, is this.
All right, he's disgusting.
What he said was disgusting.
What he said was also genocidal.
So whereas you do not believe it's genocide that's going on, he clearly is talking in a way which made me believe that actually maybe the intention is genocide.
It may not be the death of absolutely everybody, but it means killing a lot of Palestinians and kicking the rest out of the area.
And that is a genocide.
No, no.
A genocide is something which is top-down government policy and carried out systematically.
That's not what is happening.
He is definitely, some of his speeches are genocidal.
I don't know what he means exactly.
And there are other ministers who speak like him, and they shouldn't be doing that.
And they may even have a genocidal mentality, but they do not control government policy and they do not control what the army is doing.
That's done by the generals and, unfortunately, in my mind, by a man called Netanyahu, who's totally corrupt and incompetent.
Yeah, okay, we're bringing in Norman Finkelstein.
But it's got nothing to do with genocide.
Well, I think you're getting perilously close to agreeing with me.
Norman Finkelstein, I mean, the bottom line is: if it sounds from the rhetoric like a genocide, if the actions on the ground are becoming increasingly genocidal, if there's no other plan being put out there for what happens to Palestinian people other than many more will die and the rest will be thrown out of Gaza, I don't know what else you end up calling this.
And, you know, I listened to that, Doctor.
I didn't hear somebody that I felt was a Hamas sympathizer or propagandist.
He went out of his way to say.
He's a liar.
He's a liar.
Well, he's a liar who's lost 78 members of his family.
So, I mean, I agree.
I feel sorry for him, but they are caught up in a bad situation that I can see.
Where Hamas controls, where Hamas controls the population and is willing to sacrifice as many civilians as they can to win world support.
Well, which is exactly what Israel also seems like they're prepared to sacrifice.
Norman Finkelstein.
Well, thank you for having me on the program, and I hope that you'll hear me out.
Is it a genocide?
Well, as you know, Piers, from the first time I appeared on your program many months ago, I said it was a genocide.
I said it was perfectly obvious when October 9th, the then Defense Minister Gallon said, we're not going to allow in any food, fuel, water, or electricity.
Well, for a hermetically sealed population, that's a genocide.
When the head of state, Mr. Netanyahu, compared the current situation with Amalek and invoked the biblical reference, it was clear, as the Israeli human rights organization Beth Selim put it, that he was talking about genocide.
Now, in the 19 months that have elapsed, there have been adjustments in Israeli policy due to external pressure.
That's called politics.
So when the external pressures escalated, they had to diminish the genocide.
And then beginning roughly when Kamala Harris was nominated for president in the United States and all the cameras switched to the American election, Mr. Netanyahu, who's very sensitive to and knowledgeable of the American media, he then escalated the genocidal assault on Gaza again.
And then as you remember, because I did several programs with you at that time, as you'll remember, every day there was another massacre.
Political Pressure Diminishes War Crimes 00:15:18
There were so many massacres, it was impossible to keep count, and it was impossible to remember.
Now, again, there was some lessening.
I think the first massacre was launched by Hamas.
I've not forgotten it.
Danny, but you have, Danny, you have to remember manners.
I'll remember the massacres, and you remember manners.
I'm speaking now.
So, there were times when Israel, as I said, escalated the genocide and then diminished the genocide.
Now, let's talk about the responsibility and the mindset.
You've mentioned Mr. Smodrich.
I mentioned Mr. Netanyahu.
There was also several others whose names have constantly come up.
Obviously, Defense Minister Galante, who was indicted along with Prime Minister Netanyahu by the International Criminal Court.
But it's not just the leadership.
It's not just the leadership.
The most recent poll showed that fully one half of Israeli Jews, we're talking now about the population, fully one half of Israeli Jews believe that Israel should conduct a genocide in Gaza.
That's what the poll results showed.
82%.
That's a lie.
That is a lie.
I know, Benny, everybody's lying.
But there's never been a poll about supporting Israel.
Please lie, Mr. Benny.
Okay.
Okay, Benny, Benny, what is that?
What is that?
What do you mean that poll, Norman?
It seems a very important poll.
The poll was taken.
It was a university, if my memory is correct, it was a University of Pennsylvania poll.
It was reported everywhere.
Benny Morris knows about the poll.
He's fully informed of the poll, but he's doing his job as an official Israeli propagandist.
I know Benny Morris.
I don't know.
I'm not discussing that.
You've reduced yourself.
Mr. Benny, you've reduced yourself to the level of a Holocaust denier.
It's a real shame that you have sunk so low.
But allow me to continue.
The poll showed that 82% of Israeli Jews, 82% support a forced expulsion from Gaza.
It's not the same as genocide.
That may be true.
That may be true, but that's not genocide.
That's not 50%.
What you said before about genocide.
Total nonsense.
Total nonsense.
Piers, you're going to have to ask Benny Morris to please allow me to speak.
Well, Benny, I will let you.
You're speaking up all the time, though.
Norman, he must give up all the time.
Okay, I will finish.
I will finish.
Then, one of the leaders of the opposition in Israel described Israeli soldiers as killing children as a hobby in Gaza.
Now, yes, he took it back.
He took it back after he came under ferocious attack.
But he himself acknowledged when I debated Mr. Morris about a year ago and I said that Israel targets children, he laughed.
He thought it was such a funny remark by me.
I'm wondering, after the foreign doctors in Gaza, after the foreign doctors in Gaza attested that the children were being shot in the head and the chest, and when one of the leaders of the opposition in Israel said that the Israeli soldiers killed children, I must let Benny respond, Norman.
I must let Benny respond.
Benny.
There has never been a poll asking Israelis whether they support genocide.
This is a total lie, and the 50% figure is also something completely out of Norman Finkelstein's imagination, his twisted mind, actually.
There is no targeting of children deliberately.
And what this politician said, and he's actually a very clever politician and usually tells things straight and the truth, was a slip of the tongue.
And he said, I made a mistake.
I said the wrong thing and I shouldn't have used that phrase.
Stupid phrase.
Israeli soldiers do not target, as a rule, children.
There may be, and I'm sure there are and have been, war crimes committed by Israeli soldiers and pilots, perhaps, in this war in the course of 19 months.
But I don't think we should forget that Hamas is a homicidal, a homophobic, misogynist, totalitarian organization which tried to kill as many Israelis as they could, most of them civilians, on the 7th of August.
And what befell Gaza as a result is revenge for that attack by the Hamas.
And the Hamas said they would do the same thing again if they are revived and resuscitated as a leading organization in the Gaza Strip.
And I think that's the objective of the Israeli army, to end Hamas rule and to end the Hamas as an organization in the Gaza Strip.
And anybody normal who doesn't support Islamists, doesn't support anti-Semitism, doesn't support misogyny, doesn't support homophobia, should be against Hamas, which Norman Finkelstein apparently isn't.
Yeah, but I don't, listen, I don't hear people supporting Hamas in certainly in mainstream media or anywhere else.
Everyone's of a unanimity that what they did was unconscionable and they should be held to account.
The problem is that the strategy, the Israeli people.
But they still want to do the question.
Yes, I heard they still want to do in Silicon Valley.
Benny, let's just assume, because they said it themselves, in fact, the spokesman said it after October the 7th, that if they can do it again and again, they will.
So they want to get rid of all the Jews in Israel.
Okay, that is Hamas.
And of Israel.
And of the state of Israel.
And of the State of Israel.
But the problem is, as I've always said from the start of this, what is a proportional response to what happened?
And what is the end game?
What does Israel actually want at the end of this?
And I'm beginning to think they don't have any plan at all.
That actually, what they're hoping is that they can pursue the line of many of the more right-wing members of that cabinet.
Maybe Netanyahu himself now has been introduced into this because he has no incentive to end the war because the moment it ends, he'll be held accountable for allowing October the 7th to happen in the first place, which was hugely unpopular for him and the Poles with the Israeli people.
But secondly, he's facing corruption charges in a criminal court the moment this is all over.
There is no incentive for him to end it.
And so this carries on and on with more and more Palestinians being killed.
And all right, you might have a belief that the IDF never deliberately targeted children, but they are deliberately and relentlessly targeting civilian areas in their estimation going after Hamas.
But in the process, they know they are going to kill on a daily basis dozens, if not hundreds of innocent people as well.
And that's been going on now week after week, month after month.
And at some point, you surely have to concede that this strategy is not working.
It's making Israel global pariahs.
It's making Israel global pariahs.
There is no evidence that Hamas is being dismantled.
In fact, the opposite appears to be happening, where for every Hamas terrorist killed, they're apparently replacing them with multiple more people who share the ideology.
The hostages are not being released.
God knows how many of those hostages may be killed now with these intensifying airstrikes.
No, no, no.
Israel now says it's going to be a lot of people.
Israel now says, well, let me say this.
Israel now says it's launching a massive new attack.
Well, okay, bully for Israel, but actually, none of this seems to be working.
And so at some point, I say enough.
Yes, correct me.
Okay.
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I understood that.
Can I correct you on one small point?
The Hamas took, kidnapped 251 hostages, most of them Israelis, some of them Nepalese, some of them Thai, on the 7th of October 23.
Of those, 177 were actually released as a result of the Israeli counter-offensive in interim Iran.
Well, they were released by diplomacy, actually.
They were released from Israel.
No, no, Israeli military pressure is what persuaded the Hamas because they also have a lot of people.
So why is it not working now?
Why isn't it working now?
It will work.
No, I don't know.
Firstly, there's only 20 alive Israeli hostages left in Hamas' hands.
I do believe that the government is competent in the United States.
No, no, we know there's 20 live ones and assumed 38 dead ones.
That's what they're saying.
But nobody knows for sure.
Okay, nobody knows for sure.
The government now, which was incompetent and I think incompetently managed this war, that's why it's stretched out for so long.
Though don't forget, we also had a war with Iran and with Hezbollah, and we continue to have a war with the Houthis from Yemen.
So it's not just been Israel focusing only on Gaza.
No, but in the war, if I may say, before I go back, hang on, before I go back to Norman, with the war with Hezbollah, that was a scenario where Israel, in terms of military operation, brilliantly targeted 3,000 Hezbollah terrorists in a way that begs the question, why could they not have done a similar operation on Hamas?
And I've heard all the excuses and explanations and arguments, but in one case, Israel has now, since October the 7th, 2023, just launched endless strikes and assaults on civilian populations in Gaza, killing, we don't know how many, but we know it's many tens of thousands, including over 20,000 children in a population with 50% under 18.
And in their offensive against Hezbollah, which was incredibly successful, they targeted 3,000 terrorists with pages, which have got exposures in.
There's a massive difference in the way that Israel's gone about these two counter-terrorist operations, as they would put it.
And I would argue the way they went after Hezbollah had global support in a way that the way they've gone after Hamas in Gaza is increasingly making Israel a global pariah.
Norman, your response.
I agree with you completely, but there were two reasons for that.
The first one is that the Hamas has systematically hidden behind civilians and in tunnels underneath civilian centers.
Are we having a monologue?
Norman.
With all due respect to you, Piers, I think there's a misunderstanding about what's been happening since October 7th.
Once October 7th happened, it was a crisis for Israel.
About that, there's no dispute.
But it was also viewed, as the cliché had it.
It was also an opportunity.
And the opportunity was to once and for all solve the Gaza question.
Now, from day one, it was perfectly obvious that the goal of Israel was to solve the Gaza question through three methods.
One, ethnic cleansing.
two, make Gaza unlivable, and three, mass killing, mass death and destruction.
Now, if you look at it from that vantage point, the operation has been hugely successful.
I don't know why, with all due regard, and I do respect you, I don't know why you keep saying it's been unsuccessful.
They've destroyed about 90% of the housing in Gaza.
They've destroyed about half the hospitals in Gaza.
They've destroyed about half the universities in Gaza.
They've destroyed about half the Arab land in Gaza.
Gaza won't be habitable anytime in the next two decades, according to the best estimations by the international community, the international organizations, the World Bank, and the National Monetary Fund, UNCDAD, and so forth.
It's been hugely successful.
Where we're at now is the final phase.
And the final phase is why all the rats like the leadership in the UK right now, and the French and the Canadians, they're trying to jump off the sinking ship because they know exactly what Israel has in mind.
We're now at the apocalypse, the final phase.
Mr. Morris has written a lot about 1948 in Israel.
And in fact, what's happening now is very similar to what happened in October 1948.
If you read his books, which I have, you see a massive escalation of atrocities during the 1948 war as they're trying to finish the job.
And now Israel is trying to finish the job.
If you read your own Financial Times, it described very beautifully what this Gaza Humanitarian Foundation was about.
They were going to set up two or three distribution points in the south of Gaza.
And then everybody from the north and the middle of Gaza would have to go to the south in order to get food or water or medicine.
And then when everybody was congregated in the south, what do you think is going to happen?
Exactly what happened in October 1948.
There were going to be the massacres.
Kids Starving to Death 00:04:07
You know what they were going to do?
Can I say something?
There was rioting.
There was rioting at the food distribution centers.
The IDF felt afraid.
And then it started to fire.
And then they hoped in one fell swoop they could send the whole population over the border into Egypt.
He likes to let it happen.
It's perfectly obvious what Israel is doing now.
It's the last stage, or I should say, it's the final stage of the final solution.
And now some of the Western leaders don't want to have to dirty their hands with it.
So suddenly people like Lamy are discovering that it's intolerable, the situation in Gaza.
Guess what?
Can I say that?
It's been intolerable since October 8th.
Okay, final word very briefly to you, Benny.
As far as I've understood, firstly, at the moment, there's discussions of a prisoner exchange and a ceasefire between Israel and the Hamas, which may work out and give the Hamas a breathing space of 60 days at least in which to reorganize and whatever.
But the Israeli military plan, as far as it's been published, is to take over essentially 75% and maybe by the end 100% of the Gaza Strip and root out the Hamas, kill the Hamas people or get them to surrender and leave the territory and to supply the Palestinian population and three centers, not just in the south, but also in the north,
with humanitarian aid, if the Hamas will allow it to come through, because the Hamas have been taking most of the UN.
They're lying, Benny, and then selling it.
And then selling it to merchants.
And then selling it to merchants.
One minute and stop lying.
Making money with which they can hire new fighters.
That's what you're doing.
But the truth is, humanitarian aid.
Okay, Benny, the truth is, when you launch a three-month blockade of a going in when you know kids are starving, it's unconscionable.
I don't care what you try and do.
That's incorrect.
There was a lot of food stores there for this period.
Now they're reaching a stage at which there is famine.
Israel has begun to stop.
I've got to leave it there.
I'm sorry.
I'm sorry, Norman.
We've run out of time.
The whole world is lying.
The whole world is lying.
The World Food Programme.
Except Norman Finkelstein.
Except Norman Finkelstein.
Everybody's lying.
UNICEF is lying.
The whole world, which says there's a massive starvation verging on famine in Gaza, it's all made up.
You don't have to be an expert.
You don't have to be an expert to know if you stop food going in in sufficient quantities to a population that's already been at war since October 2023, and many of them are young kids, they're going to start starving to death, and they will.
Anyway, I've got to leave it there.
Thank you both for me.
The food doesn't arrive.
Yeah, well, the food hasn't been arrived.
Because there's been a blockade.
We've got to leave it armed.
No, no, no.
It started again now arriving.
Well, that's very generous of Israel, isn't it?
After three months of starving people.
It's not only about generosity.
There's also international pressure.
Yeah, sure.
It's starving one million children.
Got to leave it there.
Got to leave it there.
It's unconscionable, like I said.
Thank you all very much.
I appreciate it.
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