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May 26, 2025 - Uncensored - Piers Morgan
01:08:57
20250526_worse-than-watergate-jake-tapper-interview-biden-c
Transcriber: nvidia/parakeet-tdt-0.6b-v2, sat-12l-sm, and large-v3-turbo
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Jaw Dropping July 2022 00:07:55
Do you feel that you owe the American people an apology for slightly dropping the ball with this?
I wish I had covered the story better.
Where were your balls, Jake Tapper?
Where did they go exactly for the last four years?
So it's not like I was ignoring it.
They did nothing, Piers.
Nothing.
But in retrospect, of course I wish my coverage had been better on this subject.
You were able to like throw Joe Biden in the trash bin when it was convenient.
Now you're making piles of cash for doing the exact same thing that we've all been doing for four years.
Original Sin by Jake Tapper and Alex Thompson is the bombshell book on the cover-up of President Biden's training decline by the Democratic Party, the White House, his family, and just about everybody else.
This book has dominated headlines for a week now.
It's a number one bestseller and has sparked an across the aisles backlash, which has sometimes been as much about the authors as the book itself.
There's been media pylons, memes, even Megan Kelly.
We're joining Uncensored to give their perspective on what's been a whirlwind week.
The co-authors Jake Tapper and Alex Thompson.
Gentlemen, welcome to Uncensored.
It's great to be here.
Thanks, Piers.
First of all, congratulations.
As somebody who's written many books, what you really want to do is have a number one bestseller, and absolutely everybody's talking about it.
And at some stage, they're all attacking you.
So congratulations, really, for the trifecta of literary success.
We're really happy with the response the book's gotten.
A lot of people buying it, a lot of people talking about it.
And I think one of the things that the book has successfully done is getting people, it's gotten Democrats to acknowledge the reality of what was going on 2023, 2024 in a way that it was not, we didn't take for granted that the premise would be accepted as quickly as it was.
You know, Jay, I mean, look, you and I worked together at CNN, known you a long time.
You're a fantastic journalist.
It's a brilliant book by both of you.
So just my cards on the table.
I loved it.
But there's one line that just sprang out to me of all the lines.
A lot of it is shocking.
But this line on the decision to run against Trump.
On page 85, a longtime Biden aide says he just had to win and then he could disappear for four years.
He'd only have to show proof of life every once in a while.
That is a kind of jaw-dropping line.
When you read it, you can't unread it because what they're basically saying is they prepare to put a zombie back in the White House who would have zero ability to do anything but show proof of life.
And that person would be the leader of the free world, the president of the United States.
I mean, it is truly jaw-dropping.
It's stunning to give credit where credit's due.
Alex is the one who got that line.
And when we say that almost all of the interviews we did for the book came after the election, that one line is the one exception.
That came before the election.
And I was stunned too.
But I guess it really gets at the premise that so many of these Democrats accepted, which is only Joe Biden has ever beaten Donald Trump, one.
Two, Donald Trump has to be defeated because he's an existential threat to the nation.
And if you buy those two premises, then you can really justify almost anything, which is what the Democrats tried to do, even though the American people were watching and saying in all sorts of polls, we don't believe that this guy can do the job.
But I agree with you.
That was jaw-dropping to me as well.
And I'll just add a little bit of color, Piers, where what was also sort of shocking that you can't get on the page is honestly how casually this person said it, as if it was, they were not speaking of it as if this was like a profound statement.
It was just like, well, obviously, you know, we are, we, we just, you know, when you elect a president, you're electing the people around him, even if they are unelected or not senate confirmed.
What's extraordinary, Alex, to me, is I was writing columns for the New York Post.
I was doing this show throughout that time.
Much of it I was doing in London.
I'm actually in Dubai at the moment in the Middle East, but I was in London for much of the time that I was writing this column.
So I thought it'd be quite amusing to go back and just check what I was writing in real time about your president from across the Atlantic, because it wasn't just something that was being picked up on by a few rogue people in America.
You know, I wrote a piece in July 2022.
This was based on the Peter Baker dossier, which he produced.
He was the chief White House correspondent at the New York Times, of course.
And the dossier was, when you look back on it now, it is extraordinary, really, in his prescience.
You know, reveal that huge concerns about Biden shuffling when he walks, prompting concerns he'll trip on a wire.
His speeches are flat and listless.
He stumbles so often that staffers hold their breath to see if he can make it to the end without a gaff.
He regularly makes huge policy change.
And that's something that are instantly walked back by the White House.
He sometimes loses his train of thought.
He has trouble summoning names.
He appears momentarily confused.
He called his vice president President Harris.
He mistook Iran for Ukraine.
He referred to Senator John Mark Warner as John, mistaking him for a dead Republican senator.
Mark Warner as John.
I'm sorry, mistaking him for a dead Republican senator.
He tumbles off stationary bikes.
He stays out of public view at night and so on and so on.
And I concluded in that piece, this is July 2022.
So over two years before the election.
I said, if his functionality continues to deteriorate at the rate it is doing now, then surely he, Biden, will render himself constitutionally unfit to serve as president.
Towards the end of Reagan's presidency, as A seriously considered whether he might have to be removed from office under the 25th Amendment disability clause, the time for that same conversation to be happening about Joe Biden might fast be approaching.
Now, that is a British journalist writing that, albeit in the New York Post, in July 2022, based on a stunning report at the time.
And when I read your book, I was just mindful of that period and what Peter Baker had written, what I'd written about it, the fallout and so on.
It just defies comprehension that Biden was able to limp on, especially when I read all the additional stuff that you guys have found.
He was able to limp on for another two and a bit years.
I mean, what's so striking about both this very consequential decision of running for re-election is how little process there was.
And basically the word came down that Biden and the First Lady are running and everyone get on board.
And the people that had concerns did not did, you know, privately voice them, but never actually got in the president's face because they had also created a culture where questioning that would be potentially perceived as disloyalty.
But I'm also glad that you mentioned that other people did see this.
It wasn't like it was completely hidden.
They certainly tried to hide the extent of his decline, but people knew.
And the thing, and the fact matter is the Democratic Party, the leaders of the Democratic Party, members of the Democratic Congress, not only didn't say anything, but also repeatedly attested to him being sharp as ever on TV, publicly, constantly attacked reporters from Wall Street Journal when in almost two years after you wrote that column in June of 2024, they were still attacking reporters.
Misleading Health Claims 00:11:40
And I think it goes back to what Jake said before, which is that if you believe Trump is an essential threat to democracy, you can rationalize almost anything.
Yeah, I mean, Jake, you've been criticized a lot, but I've seen your defense and it's been quite striking that your defense, and I don't want to put words in your mouth, but it appears to be that you had very little direct access to Biden yourself.
And you were just deliberately, persistently misled by people at the White House about his condition.
I'm not really sure what else somebody in your position can do.
If you don't get the access, and Biden was obviously being hidden a lot from people, particularly people like you, it's very hard to see what you were supposed to have done.
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So what our reporting revealed to us is that there were basically two Joe Bidens.
There was the one that was perfectly serviceable, gave the State of the Union address in 2024.
He was fine.
He was old, but he was fine.
And then there was this other non-functioning Joe Biden who would lose his train of thought midway through in a disturbing way, not be able to come up with the names of top aides or people he'd known for years.
And everything we saw the night of the debate.
And what we learned is that the non-functioning Joe Biden really started rearing his head around 2015 after the death of his son Bo.
And then he reared his head on occasion throughout that time, 2017, 2019, 2020.
What you list in that column you wrote, that prescient column, is a number of things that we saw in front of the cameras or things that Peter Baker and others like yourself noted in columns.
But what the people behind the scenes would say is, yes, he's old, but he is sharp as attack and still running meetings and all of that.
And what our reporting uncovered is that that non-functioning Biden right around 2023, the summer of 2023, started rearing his head much more frequently and in much worse a way than previously.
So what we discovered was it was a lot worse than what we saw going on.
And look, yeah, I mean, in 2020, I saw him as old.
I did not see him as non-functioning.
But by 2022, 2023, my coverage was, I did reflect the coverage that people had, the concerns about his aging, what's going on, et cetera.
When the HER report came out, that is really an important demarcation because that's the moment when somebody who's not in Biden's inner circle, and remember, at this point in 2023, they start in this point in 2023, they start sequestering Biden.
off away from even his own cabinet secretaries.
The HER report comes out and this special counsel is like, look, this is what we saw five hours behind the scenes, and it was alarming.
Yeah, it was completely alarming.
Alex, two specific questions.
When it gets into the blame game about who was driving the cover-up, you know, I was struck when I, again, I went back to read these columns I wrote and the one that I wrote in 2022, it was around that time that Biden suddenly claimed he had cancer.
Now, we now know from him that he does have aggressive prostate cancer.
And I'm going to come to that in a moment.
But he said that he had cancer only for the White House physician, Kevin O'Connor, to rush out a statement saying he doesn't and insisting President Biden remains a healthy, vigorous, 78-year-old male who is fit to successfully execute the duties of the presidency, to which I responded in this column.
Does he, though?
President Biden is showing more and more signs of deteriorating cognitive and physical decline that just isn't to do with his age.
I know 90-year-olds, twice as lucid and mobile as he is.
Now, I'm not repeating this to say, oh, look, I was a smart Alec, and much as I would like to do that, obviously, but I'm not.
I'm doing it because it just seems so obvious to me that what they were saying was complete nonsense.
On that claim, when Biden said he had cancer, is there any possibility here that he's known all the time he's had prostate cancer?
And that stumbled out at the time, and there was some cover-up.
It seems outlandish, but given that he did say it, and then they had to correct it, what's your view about that?
Well, he had had past bouts, I think, of melanoma.
But I mean, to answer your question bluntly, yeah, it's possible.
And the thing is, there are more questions.
The recent disclosure of this stage four prostate cancer raises more questions than it answers because even members of Biden's own COVID team, especially Dr. Zeke Emmanuel, have said that it's almost impossible that he would have just developed this cancer in the last hundred days.
It's almost certain that he had cancer while he was president.
Now, whether or not he knew, we just don't know.
So they either missed it, you know, diagnosing the most powerful person in the world, or they did know it, or some people did know it, and they didn't disclose it.
And that's why Jake and I are actually, we sort of think of this as the first draft of the story, and we've continued to report after we submitted the draft.
Yeah, Jake, I mean, it's a fascinating scenario here because I don't want to doubt for a moment that the timeline a recent president of the United States is giving about his health.
However, everybody else is.
And I think that what they're drawing the conclusion, as Ezekiel Emmanuel said, it's highly likely he has had this prostate cancer, maybe for the entire term that he was serving as president, which may explain some of the cognitive issues.
So it's a really important part of the story.
And the timing of the release of the news that he has aggressive prostate cancer, stage five, I think they said, metastasizing into his bones.
And they release that right as your book is published.
Now, I don't think you need to be the most elaborate conspiracy theorist to think, was it timed?
In other words, did they know for a long time?
And did they time the announcement simply to put a lid on you guys having a free run at his cognitive disabilities?
Am I being a mad conspiracy theorist or is there potential merit to this?
So we don't have any reporting that suggests that the announcement is anything other than how they've presented it.
But that said, this is a White House or this is a team now.
They're not in the White House anymore, but the Biden team has not been transparent about his health.
They have been misleading about his health.
They have been gaslighting the country about his ability to do the job.
We have cabinet secretaries in the book saying that by the end of the Biden presidency, they did not think that President Biden could be relied upon for the proverbial 2 a.m. phone call in the middle of the night with a national security emergency.
So while I don't have any confirmation that your skepticism is correct, I certainly understand why people are being skeptical.
And look, this goes beyond President Biden.
The American people have been lied to about the health of their president as far back as George Washington.
Most recently, obviously, with Ronald Reagan having Alzheimer's towards the end of his presidency, JFK having Addison's disease, taking a medicine cabinet worth of drugs every day.
There are lots of examples of how the American people are kept in the dark about these sorts of things.
So, I mean, I think one of the big lessons for us is, as a public, is that the American people need to demand full transparency when it comes to the health of their presidents.
Because really right now, these health reports that the White House physicians give, they're optional and they don't have to be in any great detail.
And certainly there are times that tests are not given, precisely because, in the words of one White House physician that we spoke with, Dr. Jonathan Reiner, the only reason to not give Joe Biden a cognitive test is if you didn't want to know what it would reveal.
Well, also, Alex, the only reason you may not want to give a man in his late 70s a PSA test for something that almost every man in his late 70s would have reasonably regularly is if you don't want to see the result.
You know, because I know a bit about prostate cancer and a lot of men get it and a lot of men are told there's no point treating it.
You can live with this.
Other people aren't so lucky and have to take quite drastic surgical action or whatever.
He's clearly now in a much more serious position where it's metastasized to his bones.
But could it be, they said the last PSA test was 2014.
Now, it just, to me, completely stretches credulity that a man who's president of the United States would not just have a simple PSA test.
It's one of the easiest things to have in the world.
Why would they not give him one for his entire tenure?
And if they did, is that lending succor to the overall view that there's been a huge cover-up about this cancer?
Well, the Biden team has been privately sharing articles, and I'm sure you've seen them about that the PSA tests are not necessarily recommended for people over 70.
And that is their explanation.
But I can tell you, even Biden people, people that still love Joe Biden, people that believe Joe Biden was a great president and is a good man, are skeptical of these answers and find themselves basically, you know, doubting the people that they previously trusted.
It does, it has surprised and shocked many people that Joe Biden did not have a PSA test since 2014, especially given this recent disclosure.
Yeah.
Jake, in terms of...
Yeah, sure.
Yeah.
Well, I was just going to say, like, all the cognitive issues that you brought up in your column in 2022.
If that were a loved one of yours, you would take that person to a gerontologist or a neuroscientist.
You would take them to some sort of doctor.
What's going on here?
This is not just aging.
This is something else.
Doctor Asleep On Screen 00:02:42
I don't think, Alex and I don't think that the Biden people did that, not because they didn't see it, but because...
They didn't want to know.
They didn't want an answer.
I mean, I can think of no other reason other than there being in complete denial that this was going on while you were writing columns about it.
Well, you know, this brings me to Dr. Jill Biden, his wife, who I've interviewed at CNN, actually, and liked very much personally, and has been obviously tremendously supportive to him throughout his political career.
And we all know the background and the tragedies he's been through and everything.
I don't discount any of that from his overall story.
However, you know, when I watched the debate, for example, that was the glaring exposure in front of the world that this guy was clearly having serious cognitive issues, was not fit to be president of the United States, and certainly shouldn't even be contemplating another four years of this.
This was outlandish.
And it's some really interesting stuff in the book, I think, Jake, between you and another former colleague of mine, Dana Bash.
And you're sort of exchanging notes with each other.
You know, you wrote on your iPad, holy smokes, to the gallery.
And I think she said that he's just lost the election.
I mean, amazing things to be noting in real time.
And yet, that's what we were all thinking.
I was watching it in London.
I taped it overnight, woke up at about 6 a.m., watched it.
My 12-year-old daughter, she was then, came down, looked at the screen.
This was 10 minutes in, looked at the screen for about 20 seconds and said, Daddy, is that man asleep about Joe Biden?
I said, no, he's not.
He's taking part in a debate as to who should be the next president of the United States.
And she burst out laughing.
She said, but he's asleep.
That was the eyes of a 12-year-old.
But Jill Biden, Jake, and her role in this, it just seems to me, I watched that, I thought, quite a pitiful appearance on The View to try and get ahead of your book, where again, he just stumbled his way through quite a lot of rambling nonsense.
And there she was next to him.
And I just, the number of wives who said to me, I would never put my husband through that.
And you think of the magnifying glass of the presidency and all it brings.
What do you think is going on there?
Why would she not an actual doctor?
I know that.
But why would his wife, given what he's been through in his life, losing his first wife, losing his baby daughter, losing his son, Bo in his 40s, why would she want to put him through that kind of humiliation and potential huge stress that goes with that job on his health, which was clearly deteriorating?
George Clooney Fundraiser Idea 00:13:35
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So I think there are any number of reasons.
I mean, we contain multitudes, right?
So the first one is the belief that only Joe can be Donald Trump and Donald Trump poses an existential threat.
So that drives a lot of the decision-making.
There's also the fact that she loves him dearly, and this is what he wants to do.
So she's with him.
There's also a third reason.
She's in denial about what's going on, as is not uncommon for spouses whose husbands or wives are going through some deterioration.
Fourth, and this is the less flattering explanation, she was very enamored of the lifestyle.
It is fun being first lady.
She was on three Vogue covers in four years.
That's the same number that Michelle Obama was on in eight years.
Alex had reporting about people close to the White House or people close to the First Lady saying that she had become Jackie Ode.
She had really gotten in to what it's like to be First Lady and the glamour and all that.
And then fifth of all, there's also the Hunter factor, which is the fact that Hunter Biden was under investigation.
And the best way that they could protect him was to keep the presidency so that they could protect him either through the Justice Department, which didn't go as well as they wanted, or through the pardon power, which they did.
They ultimately pardoned him.
Fascinating.
Alex, some of the other potential villains here are the coterie of big celebrities, led, I would argue, by George Clooney, who did perform a screeching U-turn after that debate.
But, you know, he was there at that fundraiser in LA when Obama had to lead Biden off.
And it was quite obvious what he was doing.
He was trying to protect him from sort of losing his way on stage in front of the world.
But, you know, I do find it pretty rich that people like George Clooney are positioning themselves as the great saviors of this crisis when they all knew.
You know, this idea that they didn't know what he was actually like, given the time they were spending around him, they knew.
You know, Barack Obama knew.
George Clooney knew.
The whole Democrat machine around Biden, the White House, they all knew, didn't they?
I mean, they were all in on this.
They were all in on this.
It can't be Trump.
Therefore, we just have to pretend this is going to be okay.
Well, to single out George Clooney, I don't think it's completely fair because George Clooney had only seen him in late 2022.
And then after, you know, I think you're right.
Yeah, but Alex, hang on, hang on.
Hang on.
Let me just stop you there.
Let me stop you there.
He'd seen exactly what I'd been seeing.
So you don't have to physically see him.
I didn't have to feel, I didn't see, I've never met Joe Biden.
He rang me once about a column I wrote.
Very poignant conversation we had, actually, about when Bo died.
And I said he was potentially the great American president America will now never know could have had.
And he rang me, and it was a very moving conversation about life and grief and everything else.
That was my only ever contact with Joe Biden.
But it didn't take me having to see him in that period to witness what I was witnessing with my own eyes.
And so was George Clooney.
He's a politically savvy guy.
And that's what I mean is I don't think they had to physically be in the room with him to know what was going on.
Well, I'd say George Clooney, A, was believing a lot of what the people behind the White House were telling people, including White House reporters and White House reporters, believed it, even though they were around longer than George Clooney.
I'd also say that George Clooney, this is not like a George Clooney apologist tour here, but I'd say George Clooney had a lot more courage in writing that op-ed calling for Biden to drop out after the debate than basically most members of the Democratic Party.
At the end of the day, only one Democratic senator, despite the vast majority, almost all of them believing he should no longer be the nominee, only one said so publicly.
So I agree that there is a lot of blame to go around, but I think the blame really goes actually more so to the leaders of the Democratic Party who did see something.
If you want to say George Clooney should have spoken up after that fundraiser where Joe Biden didn't recognize him, fair enough.
But you have to also remember that fundraiser was after a really brutal stretch of travel.
And I think that's how a lot of people at that fundraiser, including those that were very concerned in the audience, rationalized not speaking up at the time.
Yeah.
Jake, if I could just come back, I just wanted to say, George Orwell once wrote, to see what is in front of one's nose needs a constant struggle.
So you saw it, okay?
And like, there are a lot of people who saw it.
A lot of voters saw it.
But the question was, how bad was it really?
And I think there were a lot of people, the press corps included, who were not able to see what was in front of their nose, our nose.
And so kudos to everybody who was right on target.
And this is also just an explanation of how much worse it was away from your nose, behind the scenes.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Well, this brings me to your conclusion, which says Joe Biden is not Richard Nixon.
The hiding and the cover-up of his deterioration is not Watergate.
I'm not entirely sure I agree, Jake, with that conclusion.
I'm not entirely sure.
The next line is, it is an entirely separate scandal.
It is a scandal.
Yes.
It is without question.
And maybe even worse than Watergate in some ways.
Right.
Because Richard Nixon was in control of his faculties when he wasn't drinking.
And, you know, so the idea that, yeah, we don't mean to exonerate.
The only reason that we have the Watergate thing is there because we quote Archibald Cox, who was a Watergate investigator, talking about how powerful the presidency is and how presidents get surrounded by people who have a vested interest in keeping that president propped up.
So that's the only reason we invoke Watergate is just to make clear, like, it's not Watergate.
This is an entirely separate scandal.
Maybe even worse.
Maybe even worse.
Yeah, I think arguably it is worse, actually.
So, Jake, I can't let you off the hook completely.
Much as I loved your book, you'd expect nothing else from a former CNNer.
I want to play the infamous clip now.
This is of you and Lara Trump, which you know all about.
Let's play it and I'll ask you a question about this afterwards.
How do you think it makes little kids with stutters feel when they see you make a comment like that?
First and foremost, I had no idea that Joe Biden ever suffered from a stutter.
I think what we see on stage with Joe Biden, Jake, is very clearly a cognitive decline.
That's what I'm referring to.
It makes me uncomfortable to see that.
You have no avenue of page.
It's so amazing to me that a cognitive decline.
You're trying to tell me that what I was suggesting was that you were mocking his stutter.
Yeah, I think you were mocking his stutter.
And I think you have absolutely no standing to diagnose somebody's cognitive decline.
I would think.
So, Jake, I'm going to put my David Frost hat on here, being a British broadcaster, following the Watergate theme.
You may remember it took David 30 hours or just under 30 hours of interrogation before he got the famous apology to the American people out of Richard Nixon.
And my question to you would be this.
I know you apologized, I believe, and correct me if I'm wrong, to Lara Trump, that you've contacted her since and apologized to her.
Do you feel, Alex, I saw your speech at the White House Correspondent Center, which I thought was very powerful and very sort of mere culprit, even though you were one of the least people that people have been blaming, actually.
But Jake, in your case, do you feel that you owe the American people an apology for slightly dropping the ball with this and not just to Lara Trump?
I feel like I owe the American people an acknowledgement that I wish I had covered the story better.
That I, knowing what we know now and looking back on that interview, which I feel tremendous humility about, she was right and I was wrong.
I did not see in his the moments he was having, I did not see that as cognitive decline.
She did.
Our reporting suggests that she was correct.
So I feel humility.
I have apologized to her.
And I feel like, and I think this is something, quite frankly, that other journalists should think about when it comes to other mistakes, because I'm surely not the only American journalist that wishes he or she had covered this better.
In legacy media, I should point out, conservative media was on this from the very beginning.
And that is, I will try to do better.
And that I, I mean, I could roll a bunch of clips of me asking about this issue.
And in 2020, I asked President Biden, then Vice President Biden, will you pledge to be transparent about your health?
And he said yes, although he was not.
And I only got one interview with him as president in 2022 when I asked him about the American people think you're too old.
Whenever you're confronted with that, you say, watch me.
The American people are watching you.
They still think you're too old.
So it's not like I was ignoring it.
And it's not like I was part of the effort to hide this.
But in retrospect, of course, I wish my coverage had been better on this subject.
And I think while I recognize to a degree I'm the avatar of American legacy journalism right now when it comes to this story, I think in order to regain trust, that there is something that we can do when we fall short.
And I'm acknowledging it.
Listen, I completely agree.
If I can just add one thing and maybe potentially embarrass Jake, is that, first of all, this book was Jake's idea.
And it was his idea basically the day before the election.
And also, you know, when you're on a beat, you know the people that are suckups.
You know the people that are lazy.
You know the people that are tough.
And like, while Jake is acknowledging that he fell short on this part of the Biden story, I know that Jake did not carry water for the Biden people.
I covered the Biden White House every day for four years.
I know the reporters they like, the reporters they don't like.
Jake was not on their Christmas card list.
So I would just say, you know, that's the reason why I was like enthusiastic when he had the idea for the book.
It's the reason why I said yes.
Well, listen, I've made my feelings clear to you, Jake.
I think you've actually been very honest about this, as have you, Alex.
And I really enjoyed the book.
Just one final question that struck me, Jay.
It strikes me that Biden couldn't have gotten away with this in my country, in the UK.
One of the reasons being that every week, every week in Parliament, the Prime Minister, at the very minimum, has to get up for half an hour, 30 minutes of interrogation in front of the world.
You couldn't hide like this in the UK system.
As you finished your book, you guys, did you reach any conclusion about how the system could get tweaked in America to avoid this happening again?
First, I mean, you are right.
And as much as I'm an America lover, there is no way that a prime minister in the UK or really anywhere, New Zealand, or I mean, there's no way this could happen because of not only question time on Sundays, but also because you don't have the incredibly strong executive mold that we have in the United States.
Your parties are stronger.
Your parliament is stronger than we have in the United States.
And while this is the system we have, It also means that if Keir Starmer were to show evidence of cognitive decline, whoever is his number two would be right there saying, something's going on with Keir Starmer.
And like the party would step in and force him to step down.
No offense to Prime Minister Starmer.
I'm just using it as an example.
But there's no way it would happen.
We need to do something in the United States.
I don't think you could do anything and pass any law that would affect the current president.
That's just not how our legislature works.
But our personal view, Alex and myself, is that the health requirements and disclosures should be mandated by law and have to be presented under threat of perjury by the White House physician.
Not just summaries of health records, but all the health records.
This is the most powerful position in the world, elected position, and the public has every right to know what's going on with the health of their president.
That's the only solution we can think of because we're not going to, obviously, we're not going to adopt a parliamentary republic system, but I think that could be at least helpful.
Stolen Time Nobody Led 00:15:39
Yeah, I completely agree.
Well, great to talk to you guys.
Jake, Alex, I love the book, Original Sin.
You don't need me to promote it.
It's a runaway bestseller, but I think you've done a great public service here.
I think it had to be told this story.
You've told it in pretty gruesome, shocking detail, but it had to be told.
And there was just a gigantic cover-up at the American people's expense.
And I guess the only worst thing could have been if he'd actually got away with it and been re-elected.
And I think that is just, thank God he wasn't, frankly.
And that's no disrespect to Biden personally, but I think that would have been a total disaster for him and for his family and for America.
Guys, thank you very much.
I really appreciate you coming on.
Thank you so much for having me.
Thank you, Pierce.
Appreciate it.
Great to be here.
Thanks, guys.
Well, joining me now.
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To debate all this is the host of the Benny show, Benny Johnson, and the former Democratic mega donor and commentator, Lindy Lee, and Julian Michaels, host of the Keeping It Real podcast and from the Adam Mockler Show on Midas Touch Media, Adam Mockler.
He'll be joining us a little later.
So, Benny Johnson, your thoughts on this?
It seems to me that this book is a dynamite book.
It has extraordinary number of revelations.
I've heard out Jake and Alex explaining why, I don't think they're trying to hide the fact that the media dropped the ball and they were part of that ball dropping.
Are you as convinced or not?
Dropped the ball.
It's very polite of you, Piers.
You're so very polite.
You're exactly right.
British press would never have stood for this.
And, you know, clearly it's important to hold our leaders into account.
You see the French president getting completely bitch slapped today on live TV.
I couldn't believe that.
It's the job of the press to ask tough questions and to do so without favoritism.
Here would be my question for Jake, and I'm so sad I didn't get a chance to be on live with Jake here, Piers.
Maybe we can set that up next time.
Why?
Why?
Why didn't you ask these questions before Joe Biden was already in the dumpster heap of history?
Where were your balls, Jake Tapper?
Where did they go exactly for the last four years?
During this time, Jake Tapper had a very successful CNN show.
Jake Tapper was on live every single night on CNN, which we are told is the most powerful name in news, while Joe Biden was falling ass backwards down the stairs of Air Force One, while Joe Biden was falling flat on his face on a stage during a commencement address to the American Military Naval Academy, while Joe Biden couldn't find his way out of an exit, couldn't find his own words,
was making up words in the English language, while Joe Biden was suicidally surrendering in Afghanistan and getting American service members killed, something we should remember this week.
Where were you exactly?
Can you please explain why you didn't lead your show every single night with the topic of Joe Biden's cognitive decline and potential elder abuse?
And oh, by the way, Joe Biden has a terminal illness.
This is something that nobody wishes on anyone.
Nobody is celebrating this at all.
However, it's the biggest political bombshell story in modern American history that the president has had prostate cancer, terminal prostate cancer, mets to the bone.
It's awful.
Nobody wishes that on anyone, but it happened and not a single journalist at CNN was able to uncover that story.
Nobody even asked a question.
My final request of Jake Tapper would be this.
Where is all of your reporting?
You had access to the White House.
Why didn't you have the chief of staff on your show?
Why didn't you ask this when you had Joe Biden on?
Why didn't you ask the White House Correspondents Association why they're not asking questions of Joe Biden's aptitude and mental fitness?
They did nothing, Piers.
Nothing.
So Jake Tapper is part of the cover-up, period.
I'm glad that he's making money.
After the fact, good for you.
You were able to like throw Joe Biden in the trash bin when it was convenient.
Now you're making piles of cash for doing the exact same thing that we've all been doing for four years.
The end.
Well, my one question for you, Ben.
It was a great rant, by the way.
My one question to you before I move to the others is if it had been Donald Trump in the same position, would you have been honest, be honest now?
Would you have been leading the charge in the way you've just described?
Yes.
The answer is absolutely yes.
Because I am an AP.
Oh, absolutely.
Oh, yes.
First off, Piers, you're close friends with Donald Trump.
Do you believe that Donald Trump has problems with his energy levels?
Answer that question.
No, no, I'm not going to take it for a moment.
No, no, I'm not suggesting that.
I'm simply saying that I'm telling you as a matter of morality.
As a matter of morality, if President Trump was falling on his face, totally.
If President Trump was falling on his face and couldn't stand and couldn't speak and was slurring his words and was calling a lid at 1 p.m., that's why I asked you about Trump's energy.
You know, I'm turning 39 tomorrow.
Donald Trump has probably four or five X the amount of energy that I have.
He's twice my age.
I don't know how he does it.
But if this was happening to President Trump as a patriot, as a moral person, so step back and remove politics from it, Piers.
As a moral person, do you think someone should be treated and abused the way that Joe Biden's been abused?
No, I don't clearly.
I'm actually staggered.
I'll come to the others.
I mean, Adam Mockla, I've got to say, the person I find that I at least understand her behavior throughout all this is his wife, Jill Biden, who I interviewed at CNN, like personally very much, but she knows what he's been through as a human being.
You know, he's lost two children and his first wife to tragic circumstances.
He's somebody who's clearly heading towards 80, showing a lot of signs of cognitive disrepair and so on and so on.
Surely the humane thing to do for any spouse in that position would have been to gently lead him off into the sunset and to persuade him that he could not continue.
Not the complete opposite.
Yeah, listen, I'm not here to defend every single misstep or fault of the Democratic Party or the Biden admin.
There are a lot of real conversations that we should be having about the incentive structures that allowed this to happen with people like Jill Biden and Hunter Biden and his close advisors.
We could talk about the risk averseness of the Democratic Party and all of the flaws, but I don't know if this is the conversation we're about to have.
I think when you have Lindy Lee on a panel with Benny Johnson and Jillian Michaels, it's going to be more of like a masturbatory partisan fest.
And I really liked your question aimed at Benny.
I think that was a good one.
And you weren't trying to say that Trump has cognitive decline.
You were asking if he would stay ideologically consistent when the admin is lying.
I guess the question to Benny is, do you think the 2020 election was stolen or did Trump lie about that?
Like, would you lead the charge and say that he lied about that?
It was absolutely rigged and stolen.
Yeah.
It was not.
I don't want to worry about it.
I think it's a Hunter Biden laptop story.
I'll tell you what, I don't want to look.
I don't want to get into relitigating either the stolen election, which I don't think was stolen, or the Hunter Biden laptop story, which is a problem.
But Benny Johnson would not lie.
Just to be clear, just to be clear, Donald Trump, as I said to, hang on, as I said to Trump to his face in our last interview, had you told the world that the suppression of the Hunter Biden laptop story had cost you the election, I would agree with you and I would support you.
I think they reckon it could have swung it by 10%, right?
Because it was so damning, the stuff on that laptop.
And it was suppressed by big tech at the behest of the Democrat Party.
So on that, I'm with Trump 100%.
On the Stolen election, I'm not.
But let's not go over those again, Adam.
The central argument is this, is that throughout the, for almost all of the Biden presidency, there was a massive con going on with the American people that there was a cover-up perpetrated right from the top by him, by his wife, by his family, by his White House staff, by leading Democrats, by donors who must have known, by celebrities who knew, by former presidents who must have known,
the whole load of them were in this together to stop the American people from knowing that Joe Biden was in serious cognitive decline, which he was, and which, by the way, as I said to Jake and Alex, British journalists like me who were not even in America at the time for half of these columns, I was writing them for the New York Post, were writing this on an almost monthly basis.
I was calling for him to have a 25th Amendment move, right?
This was two years before the election.
And I'm not even American.
He's not even my president.
I could see what was happening.
I just want you to be honest, Adam.
You knew when you saw, as Benny said, when you saw him falling over all the time, stumbling, all the gaps, everything else, in your heart, you knew, didn't you, that he wasn't up to the job?
I didn't.
No, no, no.
I knew that he was getting older, but I still think he was up to the job.
And you can demonstrate that in the actual work that he did.
But just to back up, I will not sit here and deny that Biden is old.
What's funny?
What's funny?
No, no.
But he's only an older person.
You're part of the, you know, it's like...
No, no, no.
I will not sit here and deny that Biden is old.
I will not sit here and deny that Biden is old, but the framing that you guys are... Old isn't the problem.
Being senile is the problem.
He was not senile.
He was not senile at all.
Here's the thing.
You don't think he's senile.
You don't think calling on a dead congressman is alarming?
I mean, we can go through all of the insane things Trump has said.
I mean, Trump gave a speech at West Point where he didn't say a coherent thought that was a good question.
I'm not going to what about him.
Listen, just to back up, I don't want to what about him.
I'm not going to defend Biden.
He is cognitively declining, absolutely.
And he was while in office.
But Pierce's framing takes it way farther.
You basically just said there was a top-down conspiracy including celebrities, including every politician in the Democratic Party, every journalist.
Literally, their wedding is part of the machinery.
I can tell you their wives.
Jake just said that.
Jake's ten words of Jake's book.
Let me read you a quote.
Let me read you a quote.
Hang on, hang on, hang on, hang on.
Don't all talk over each other.
But Adam, before I let you go, let me read you this quote.
On the decision to run against Trump.
A quote on page 85 of the book quotes a long time Biden aide, long time Biden aide, who said he just had to win and then he could disappear for four years.
He'd only have to show proof of life every once in a while.
That is a Biden aid long time about why, since it's before the election, he gave this quote to Alex Thompson.
I mean, that is shocking.
It's damnable, frankly.
That is shocking.
That should not have happened.
And that is a different claim than what you just made regarding a top-down effort.
I thought you were about to give me some evidence of like every celebrity out there knowing this and then trying to cut it.
Here's the evidence, Adam.
Here's the evidence.
You were all watching what I was watching.
You were all watching exactly the same thing I was watching.
The lists that you just gave.
A senile Biden.
Like even beyond Biden's policy and him keeping a steady hand on the economy, him keeping a steady hand with Russia and Ukraine while Trump is getting rolled right now.
I don't want to whataboutism.
I don't want to whataboutism and talk about Trump.
When it comes to Biden, you can look at his patient.
You mean allowing Vladimir Putin to invade Ukraine?
You mean allowing 10 million people to come over the southern border illegally?
I mean, I could rattle off a list that suggests he wasn't ultimately on top of his game.
All right, let me bring in Jillian.
Hang on.
I want to bring in Jillian.
Just to slightly segue a little bit so we don't all just talk about the same thing.
Jillian, I want to talk about what seems to me potentially is another gigantic cover-up going on.
And I'm not a conspiracy theorist.
I like to challenge conspiracy theories, but I've been around the block long enough to know some of them turn out to be true.
And the one that's raging around social media right now, as we all know, is that there is general bewilderment that suddenly out of the blue, literally in the week this book is published, there is a statement from Joe Biden saying that he has aggressive and advanced stage five prostate cancers metastasized to his bones, which is very, very serious at his age.
And even Ezekiel Emmanuel, who was appearing on MSNBC, said, hang on, hang on.
If this is true, then he will have had this possibly for his entire term of office, right?
And then we're told he didn't have a PSA test since 2014.
Now, I've had a few PSA tests and I'm 60, right?
And I would carry on having them, right?
Just because it's one of the things you do as you become an older guy.
None of this adds up, Jillian.
Tell me your view about that part of this.
Of course, none of it adds up.
I'm actually so upset by all of this.
It's going to be hard for me to speak articulately.
And I fundamentally disagree with you, Adam.
If you've watched anything I've said or done in the past year, I've absolutely called balls and strikes with regard to the Trump administration.
I didn't agree with him banning trans people from the military.
I didn't agree with him taking the plane from Qatar.
There are so many different things that I have called out about his administration.
And here's what is so deeply upsetting to me is that there is no universe where people could have missed this across the board.
Hence the reason Piers is talking about him writing about it in 2022.
I know for the past three to four years, I've been speaking about it because I interviewed doctors and PhDs for the past 10 years who've been calling this out.
He has some form of Parkinson's.
He might have Louis body dementia.
And it is irrefutable.
You don't just turn up with metastasized prostate care.
That does not, that does not happen over the course of 100 days.
You're asking people to believe the world is flat.
But what makes me so freaking upset is that Jake Tapper, wasn't he the CNN chief Washington correspondent?
This man is not a journalist.
He is a propagandist.
There is no world where he did not know.
But even worse, let's say he's utterly incompetent and negligent.
Let's say that.
And he wasn't ideologically gatekeeping, which he was.
But to go after people like Lara Trump and castigate them is absolutely shameful.
And he has apologized.
He has apologized for that.
He's admitted he was wrong.
Please make money, peers.
Money Grab And Chair 00:15:06
All right, of course.
It's a money grab.
I would say this is just a straight up money grab.
Okay, but listen, I don't agree with your characterization of Jake.
I work with him a long time at CNN.
He's a very, very good journalist.
Let me just say this about his defense, which I thought was quite powerful.
He said, look, he only, I think he interviewed Biden twice in the entire period.
He was persistently, as most media were, lied to by the White House about what we thought we were seeing with our own eyes.
Right.
So I was ranting away in the New York Post.
Fine.
I can criticize Jake for not writing what I was writing or seeing what I was seeing because I thought it was pretty obvious.
But I don't think he was aware of things like the cancer and all that kind of stuff.
I think that takes the awareness of what was going on to a degree that I don't think is fair on journalists like Jake, who were probably desperate to find out but couldn't.
And probably, and to be fair to Benny and his argument, probably given when I worked at CNN, you could fire a harpoon around the newsrooms and you wouldn't hit a conservative.
There wouldn't have been the same zealotry to try and get to the truth about these things as there would have been had it have been Trump.
And I completely think that is true.
But let me bring in Lindy Lee here.
I mean, you were on the Democrat side up to the election.
You know, Adam says he can't believe there was this concerted cover-up.
I can.
I can, because they were all of this view that Trump had to be stopped and that Biden was the only way to do it.
So however impaired he was, they were going to do it.
Absolutely.
Adam, I'm sorry, but you're flat out wrong.
And I want to just apologize, but Jake Tapper won't forthright apologize to the American people.
I'm going to apologize to the American people.
I should have spoken up sooner.
When I did in 2023, they shamed me and ridiculed me.
And then what I did in early 2024, they called me up.
They said, well, actually, they saw my name in Politico that I was going to go on Fox News on Sunday.
They called me the night before and said, we know you're going to be the president's most loyal supporter.
We know you're going to stay loyal, which sounded to me like a threat.
The next day I went on air and said it anyway.
These are the kinds of people that you're dealing with.
They will threaten you.
I was banned from the White House after that interview.
Do you know what it feels like to be banned from the people's house?
Jake, with all due respect, Jake Tapper is making bank right now, but where was he before the election?
I actually paid a price.
I lost my entire old life.
I have nothing left of that.
And then when I, Pierce, I don't know if you remember, but...
But I would say, Lindy, Lindy, here's what I would say.
I started my interview with Jake by saying, look, I've watched him being hounded around the airways, and that's fine.
He's a journalist.
He can take it.
He's a big boy.
And he's got a number one bestseller.
So in the end, he's going to have the last laugh.
However, blaming everything on Jake Tapper seems to me a massive overreach.
I actually think there was a more insidious cover-up from within by people who really did know.
And that's when it comes to what I said to Adam.
I genuinely think everyone in that White House knew.
I think all the big celebrities, all the donors, the ex-Democrat presidents, Obama and so on, they all knew.
They all need a lot more than we need as the media.
Let me give you something.
Let me give you tips right now.
Wait, Adam, I'm speaking.
One second.
Not only did the White House know, not only did Steve Richetti, Mike Donnelly, Anita Donne, Jeff Zains, all these people at the highest echelon in the White House, it was an orchestrated campaign to cover it up.
Pierce, your right, but also the entire Democratic apparatus knew, starting from Jamie Harrison, who was chair, to Ken Martin, who was vice chair.
Everybody knew.
And then when we would hold events for Biden, they would confiscate our phone.
My phone, they singled me out because I know I'm pretty prolific on social.
They put it in a Ziploc bag in a cubby that I couldn't access until after the event, and they would police my posts.
This is the kind of regime that we are operating under.
Okay.
It was a complete operation.
For you to shake your head right now, is a disservice to the American people.
You need to admit that this is a bigger conspiracy than Watergate.
This is a fundamental, this is a shame.
It's a blemish.
Well, that's an interesting question.
You know, it's an interesting question when I asked Jake about that because they end the book by referencing Watergate.
And Benny, you know, some people say, well, obviously the worst scandal ever was Richard Nixon because he had to resign the presidency and so on.
I actually do believe this is a more egregious and longer-running scandal than Watergate.
You know, I really do.
You know, there's no suggestion that Nixon was unfit cognitively to make decisions on an hourly basis.
This book concludes that Biden, at best, had four good hours a day in him.
At best.
Yeah.
This is the president of the United States.
So I know that Chuck Todd was supposed to be on this panel before I guess he got replaced with Timu Harry Sisson here, but I had a piece of news article that I think really underlies the entire point that I was really looking forward to asking Chuck about.
But since he's not here, maybe he'll see this on social media.
Chuck Todd from NBC News reveals senior cabinet secretary told him in 2022, peers, that Biden cannot run again like this.
Here's the article.
I'm sure it'll be in the show notes.
So we went through and we pulled on Gravian all of Chuck Todd's Meet the Press appearances in 2022 and beyond.
Chuck Todd was the lead anchor on Meet the Press for three years of the Joe Biden residency inside of the White House.
Never once did Chuck Todd say anything about this.
This is what I mean by a cover-up.
Chuck Todd knew this was a bombshell story.
This is elder abuse at best, like essentially running a man with terminal cancer for the presidency, which is horrific at worst.
And Chuck Todd knew declaratively and did nothing.
How many more Chuck Todds are there in Washington, D.C.?
This is why I say it is a cover-up.
It's so much bigger than the Watergate cover-up.
And given that it's Memorial Day this week and we are celebrating the lost lives of service members in this country, one begs the question, would we have 13 living service members were it not for Joe Biden's total and complete cognitive destruction and surrender in Afghanistan?
13 deadlines.
Yeah, you know, I know there's a cause to this cover.
That's why they even listen, listen, you won't get an argument from me.
I do think that decisions like that, which turned out to be catastrophically bad, it is completely legitimate to ask the question, how cognitive was he when he made that call?
That's why I think this is a scandal which we don't quite know quite how far it's going to go yet.
And it won't have the same consequence.
You wouldn't have to resign.
Literal campaign chair, and I hate to say this because I actually love her and she's a dear friend, but this needs to be said.
Senator Tammy Duckworth, who has been a great friend to me over the years, she told me before Biden decided to run for re-election that he has no business running.
And then when Biden announced re-election, I heard her on cable TV just waxing lyrical about how amazing. he would be as a president, you know, to be re-elected.
This is someone that I had had tremendous respect for.
She lied to the American people.
This is a cover-up from the highest echelons of the Democratic Party.
To still deny that in May 2024, 4-5 is just unbelievable.
You'll lose all possibility.
This is the problem.
We're talking about...
Okay, talking about cover-ups and potential elder abuse.
Gillian, I'll start with you with this one, but this extraordinary footage that came out today of Emmanuel Macra about to get off his presidential plane when this happens.
Now, you see here, he's about to get off when suddenly a hand, which has red material on it, comes out and basically whacks him.
And he looks pretty shocked.
There's certainly no sense of having enjoyed that moment.
And then we find out the hand belonged to his wife, who's obviously considerably older, hence the suggestion by some on social media we have a new example of elder abuse.
I've got to say, Jillian, it looked to me like his reaction was of somebody, well, that's not the first time that's happened.
And it was not, as he later has tried to say, apparently in a statement, kind of, you know, a couple having a bit of horseplay at all, because that was not how he reacted to what went on.
What do you think has happened here?
Well, to be totally honest, I don't know.
But if I could point out a key difference between this and the Biden cover-up is that the press is reporting on it accurately.
And one of the things that I just, I cannot hold this back is we sit here and we talk about what a big cover-up it is.
And the Hunter Biden laptop was also a cover-up.
And COVID was also a cover-up.
And these cover-ups would never happen if the press wasn't complicit in them.
And that's why I think it is so important to call that out because it is indicative of much bigger problems.
And there is simply no universe where you can deny what you see with your own eyes as you have just aired that clip where Brigitte Macrone slapped him in the face.
So I don't even know what I can say.
They denied it originally.
Then the footage came out.
But did, okay, but is the media denying it?
I mean, that's my point is simply they can deny it all they want.
Look at the journalists saying, no, no, you can believe your own eyes.
She did in fact slap him.
I'm simply asking for the same honesty and transparency and integrity in journalism across the board.
As an American citizen, we rely on people like yourself, Piers.
And I have to say thank you because you weren't afraid and you did report honestly.
But this is why I just cannot allow Jake Tapper, oh, I'm sorry.
It is a money grab.
He's literally trying to launder his reputation and wipe his fingerprints away from the crime scene.
And again, if we go through all of these cover-ups and what the ramifications have been, people have lost lives.
It's been a horrendous past freaking eight years.
And I just think we can't let people like him get away with it.
I'm sorry.
Okay, Benny, the French elder abuse.
What are we thinking about this?
Well, it's not just a bitch slap, Piers.
Both hands.
I don't know if you can put the clip up again.
Slow it down.
You can see both hands clawed to the face there for Bridget.
This is some sick stuff.
So anybody, so you can see them both there.
Anybody who and he suddenly sees that people are watching and waves, but he's not.
There we go.
I mean, that's she's probably hitting him.
Anybody who can see anybody who follows this stuff closely knows that these little cracks become craters very, uh, very quickly.
And the stress of these public positions really break people, especially if you have things that you're hiding, especially if you have massive dysfunction.
It will explode and it will be really, really bad and damaging.
Yeah, I mean, call that abuse.
Listen, Emmanuel Macrone was what, 15 years old when Brigitte was 40?
And his teacher, I think that I think that you need to bring on some psych, some child psychologist or someone else who really understands this stuff professionally to say, like, is that healthy, right?
So she was a 40-year-old teacher.
He was a 15-year-old student.
She had like an 18-year-old son at the time.
It's super, it's kind of creepy.
Well, we've seen many, listen, we've seen many.
I think it's in the reverse.
If that was a male, if it was a male teacher and a 15-year-old girl, would we be okay with that?
It seems deeply dysfunctional and very critical.
Yeah, we didn't even see, we never even saw Hillary Clinton whack Bill like that.
That's that's the gravity of what we just witnessed, the uniqueness of it.
Um, Adam, just bringing you back to this general thing, because I thought Jillian hit the nail on the head, actually.
Really, the big lesson from the Biden cover-up is that journalists need to do their job, right?
Which is you're not supposed to be in one camp or another if you're purporting to be non-partisan journalists.
There are many people who are quite happy.
I mean, Benny would categorize himself as a partisan journalist, quite proudly.
That's fine, right?
But that's not the point of networks like CNN and others who purport, BBC would be another one, who purport to be non-partisan.
You just can't be seen to be taking signs.
You've got to give everybody the same rigorous treatment.
And you do it on behalf of the American people, don't you?
I agree.
I guess I have a question that I want to pose to anyone here.
I guess I'll ask it to Lindy.
First of all, I want to say, just to back up, I'm pretty sure the New York Times posted a record number of articles about Biden's age throughout 2024.
But also, if Jake Tapper 100% knew that Biden was senile, I'll grant that, I'll just concede that for a second.
If he knew that, why did he gladly host a debate that exposed and perhaps was a catalyst to Biden's downfall?
I think that Jake Tapper probably knew, but probably not to the extent that we've entered.
So wouldn't they not be covering it up if Jake Tapper knew, but then he held a debate which exposed it?
All of us were shocked.
I was actually at the debate.
I knew that Biden was deteriorating.
I didn't know that he was deteriorating to that extent.
It came as a shock to me as well.
And that was the night, actually, he said, tell your husband.
I said, hi.
I'm not married, by the way.
So it just, Jake Tapper, it makes me sick, though.
He decided to write a book the day before the election.
Betty, do you want to answer my question if Lindy won't?
I just did.
I'll answer it.
Jake Tapper, land basketball.
You know what?
I really don't.
I just don't think with all the will in the world, Jake Tapper is not the real villain here.
I'm quite happy if you guys, I'm sure he won't care if you keep whacking him.
But the bottom line is the actual villain is the occupant of the White House and the people around him.
And I mean, there's one line in the book, which I think we should just end with.
Five people were running the country and Joe Biden was at best a senior member of the board.
This is about the president of the United States.
It's shocking.
So the real blame game, yes, the media dropped the ball.
To quote Benny at the end, they dropped the ball, dear fellow.
They did.
And that is something they have to accept.
And they're beginning to.
And there'll be more accountability, I hope, on that.
Media Dropped The Ball 00:02:16
It can't happen again.
But the real lie was perpetrated right from the top.
Real quick to Adam, since he's picking on Lindy here.
Adam, if Joe Biden was on the ballot in 2024, would you have voted for him?
Over Trump, yes.
Despite yelling at the guy.
And by the way, I don't want to hear you virtue signaling military members.
Trump today posted happy Memorial Day to all, including the scum that spent the last four years.
Don't virtue signal about Afghanistan.
Adam, would you have Adam?
Adam, Adam, Adam, would you have voted for Kanye West if it was him against Trump on the ballot?
No, Kanye West, no.
Oh, so you've got standards.
Yeah, yeah.
I mean, maybe somebody who kept a steady hand.
Earlier, sorry, one more thing.
Earlier, Pierce, you said Biden allowed the invasion of Ukraine to happen.
He froze Vladimir Putin out of the global order for years while Donald Trump is ceding land and leverage and territory.
I don't want to say aloud.
I mean, it happened on his watch.
What happened on Biden's?
Putin has invaded multiple countries.
He invaded Georgia.
Then he invaded Crimea in 2014.
He didn't invade any countries on Trump's watch.
Which party's president did he invade Georgia and Ukraine?
Under which party?
Republican or Democrats?
I don't think Vladimir Putin solely makes his decisions based off of who's the current country.
I think it's a huge decision.
Let's not get into the history of the president just run out of the country.
We've run out of time, guys.
We've run out of time.
I just think that there are lots of lessons to be learned here.
But let's not lose track of who the main villains were.
And they, to me, they were in the White House, not in the media corps, who should have done a lot better and didn't.
But the real villains were the ones in the corridors of power who knew what they were doing was a con and a lie.
And they perpetrated that aggressively.
So anyway, we've got to leave it there.
Fascinating debate.
Thank you all very much.
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