Stephen A. Smith rejects the presidency as a role for "professional beggars," favoring his ESPN career while outlining centrist priorities like strict immigration enforcement and moderate foreign policy. Panelists debate Democratic failures, with Cornell West defending moral urgency against Harry Sisson's call to shed progressive extremism to win Middle America. The discussion critiques Joe Biden's cognitive decline, contrasts Bill Clinton's charisma with Pete Buttigieg's elitism, and exposes donor corruption driving both parties toward a proposed "Justice for All" movement. Ultimately, the episode suggests the Democratic Party must fundamentally reinvent itself beyond current ideological constraints to remain viable. [Automatically generated summary]
Transcriber: nvidia/parakeet-tdt-0.6b-v2, sat-12l-sm, and large-v3-turbo
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Beyond The Entire Party00:10:45
I think about my buddy Sean Hannity, when I think about my other buddy Chris Cuomo, when I think about the greatness of a Joe Rogan and others, I think that there are a myriad of ways where I can end up having a very profound impact on the world of politics and the political apparatus that exists in our nation, the United States of America.
Look, I got no problems with the brother, and I'm not trying to hate, okay?
But, I mean, saying the first thing you do is economics.
What does that mean?
What's the policy behind economics?
He said he checked with his pastor.
I think it's more likely that he checked with his publicist, but it's okay.
It's okay.
You better complain Sanskrit transplant.
You know, other people in the Democratic Party are right.
Like, you know, we lost badly.
People have made their voices clear that they don't like the wokeism.
They don't like the canceled culture.
And if we, the Democratic Party, continue to say, actually, we're going to force it down your throats.
You're going to like them no matter what.
We will continue to lose and Donald Trump will continue to thrive.
Stephen A. Smith has been touted as a presidential candidate by almost everybody.
The New York Post, CNN, Fox News, even the current president himself.
He calls himself an independent who leans left that says the Democrats have, in his words, ravaged the United States with lies, woke culture, and fear-mongering.
And he joins me now.
Stephen, great to have you on our sensor.
What's going on, Piers?
How are you, man?
How's everything?
Well, last time I saw you, I was actually walking out of the Fox News building and I see this presidential looking man striding towards me with ambition coursing through his veins.
And we had a little chat and I said, are you going to run?
He went, no.
And you've been carrying on saying no ever since.
But the thing is, the more you say no, but the more you talk about the problems facing the Democrat Party and the United States of America, the more people want you to say yes.
Well, I can respect that and I appreciate it.
I'm really flattered by it.
And I certainly don't want to be dismissive of those who feel that way about me and have that level of confidence in me.
It's just that that's not where my heart lies.
My heart has never lied in being a politician.
To be quite honest with you, I'm not trying to cast any aspersions on any particular individuals, but I view politicians essentially as professional beggars.
You know, you always have your hand out looking for money, looking for favors, looking for clout, et cetera, et cetera.
And when you're in my position, who's busted my tail for many, many years to get to the position that I'm in, well, I don't have to beg for much in this day and time in my life.
And so because of that, to think about and contemplate surrendering all of that to be in a position where I've got to go out there and beg via fundraisers, beg in terms of campaigning, beg for other politicians for their support.
If I was to be an elected office, to beg for support and votes, et cetera, to find myself in that position, to imagine me being in that kind of position is something that I have no inclination to engage in.
It's just that my pastor, several elected officials, folks in the streets of America, including yourself, Piers, because you said this to me when you ran across me outside of Fox News.
Run, run, run.
I mean, when you hear that, you know, my pastor, A.R. Bernard at Christian Cultural Center in Brooklyn, New York, said to me, have the respect to show appreciation and love to those who respect and love you and at least leave the door open because many have said before they have no interest, but God had different plans.
And you never know what's going to happen three, four years down the road.
Think about that and at least leave the door open.
And that's why I did it.
So your door is open.
Well, the door's open.
I won't deny that.
I just find it hard to believe that I'll ever walk through it because I'm living a pretty good life.
I mean, I'm sure you've read the reports.
You know I've re-upped with ESPN.
I did.
Very jealous.
I'm living a really, really good life right now.
And that's not the only opportunity that's coming down the pike.
But when I think about yourself, when I think about my buddy Sean Hannity, when I think about my other buddy Chris Cuomo, when I think about the greatness of a Joe Rogan and others, I think that there are a myriad of ways where I can end up having a very profound impact on the world of politics and the political apparatus that exist in our nation, the United States of America in this day and age.
So I always leave the door open for that possibility because I am a pundit and I am a commentator.
I have been a journalist for decades, et cetera.
So that's right up my alley.
I'm not fading away by any stretch of the imagination in terms of being involved in all of this.
But if I had the choice of doing what I do for a living, even in the political stratosphere, as opposed to being an actual elected official, I would choose the former instead of the latter as an elected, as an elected person.
You know who you sound like, Stephen?
You know who you sound like?
You're presenting a picture of someone who's not a conventional politician, who's been a significant television star for a long period of time, who loves sport, who's rich and has just done a fantastic deal.
Congratulations.
So doesn't need the money.
You sound very like somebody else I spoke to a few years ago who was toying with the idea of entering the political arena and nobody thought he had a chance.
And he's now been elected president of the United States twice in the last 10 years.
And that's Donald J. Trump because he was very different as well.
And when I watch you, and the reason I genuinely think you should think about running is when I watch you, you don't speak like a normal politician, but you do articulate a view for what your country to be, which I think is really resonating with people.
And what the Democrats in particular are crying out for is somebody who's a good communicator, who understands television as a medium, so can articulate their vision for the country, and who could probably give Donald Trump a bloody good run for his money.
And he won't even beat Donald Trump.
Do you have to give a run to the money too?
Because he'll be gone by the next election.
And it just begs the question.
Yes, you could carry on being Stephen A. Smith.
You could carry on earning a ton of money doing what you do brilliantly because you're the best at what you do in America.
You could do all that.
And Donald Trump could have carried on hosting the apprentice and selling skyscrapers, but he decided not to.
He saw a bigger calling.
And the Democrats are desperate for somebody, for somebody that can come through.
And I don't see anybody else out there, honestly, that is able to articulate themselves like you are.
Well, thank you for the compliment, number one.
Number two, I really appreciate you saying that.
And I want to be very, very clear that I'm supremely confident that if the political apparatus or the party apparatus that exists, for example, with the Democratic Party, you got to go through superdelegates.
Obviously, you're a GOP guy.
You've got Marco Rubio as your Secretary of State.
You got JD Vance as a vice president.
They have other guys in the bullpen to step up in the event that Donald Trump isn't successful in seeking a third term.
Not to say that he is.
That's more Steve Bannon than him.
But you never know what Donald Trump, the bottom line is they've got their bullpen set.
The Democratic Party doesn't appear to have that.
Am I confident that, you know, barring the bureaucracy itself getting in my way, could I win?
You're damn right.
I believe I can beat anybody.
I really, really feel that way.
But the question is that it's not about whether or not I could win or lose.
It's about what plausibly can you get done.
You know, when I look at the president in the office right now, you're very fortunate to have the House and the Senate at this particular moment in time.
The Democrats in a position since they don't have the White House, they don't have the House, they don't have the Senate, they don't even have the Supreme Court.
All they do is amount to whistling in the wind at this particular moment in time.
That's why the midterms are so important because they're going to need to win the midterms in order to position themselves to really, really make a difference.
But I think about 435 elected officials in the House.
I think about the 100 senators.
And I'm saying to myself, Piers Morgan, as a person who's never been a politician, who's never aspired to be a politician, what chances do I have of pulling off a consensus where I'm getting people to see my way of thinking?
I see resistance on both sides of the aisle.
I don't like some of the things the Republicans are doing.
What's the chances of me pulling off getting the GOP to see my way of thinking?
I'm not sure how successful I'd be in that.
When I think about the Democratic Party, I am completely and diametrically opposed to the fringes on both sides.
Obviously, in this particular situation, the progressive left.
I know a lot of Democrats who are centrist.
I think that they exercise common sense.
I think when you think about the Andrew Cuomos of the world, the former governor of New York, now running for mayor of New York City, he has shown a willingness to cross the aisle and work on both sides, an ability to get things done.
Before his controversies, he was about to be a four-term governor.
I think about Josh Shapiro in Pennsylvania and the outstanding job his constituents believe that he has done.
He's an individual that I've interviewed and I'm incredibly impressed by.
Wes Moore, I think, is a star in the making.
He is the governor of Maryland, and I've spoken to him and we've cultivated a friendship with one another where I'm incredibly confident in what his abilities are, but none of them necessarily at this moment in time resonate with the national audience in a way that makes you say, okay, they could be the Democratic nominee.
Do I believe they should?
Yes, I believe they should.
They're certainly more qualified than I could ever hope to be.
But the chances of them resonating on a national scale within the next couple of years, I don't know because there's so much dissension within the Democratic Party.
I'm just opposed to the extreme left.
I think it cost them the election against Donald Trump.
I don't view them as winning.
I view them as losing.
They lied about the capabilities of Joe Biden, tried to hoodwink the American public into adopting that, basically guilted you into supporting him because if you did it, what kind of a human being could you possibly be?
We're talking about woke culture.
We're talking about cancel culture.
I've heard you decry those things and speak against those things for years now.
And I've completely sided with you 1,000% on your position against those specific issues.
But I want to emphasize they're not the entire Democratic Party.
They're not even a vast majority of the Democratic Party.
Yet somehow, inexplicably, they were able to hold the Democratic Party hostage over the previous years, which is what I believe propelled Donald Trump into back into office as the 47th president.
America First Mentality00:07:22
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So I think about all of those things and I say to myself, okay, I could possibly win an election, but it's not just about winning.
It's what's the purpose of you winning?
What are you going to be able to get done?
And I think that that's a question that I'm obliged to ask myself, not just on behalf of myself, but on behalf of the American people, if I'm ever to take this that seriously.
That means I need to study the issues.
I need to understand that I would need to conjure up and come up with a plan of action, whether it pertain to taxes, immigration, health care, of course, the economy overall itself, foreign affairs.
These are all things that I need to master, which I can assure you I have not.
And so because of that, I won't lie to the American public.
I won't lie to anybody in this world about what I'm qualified for and what I'm not qualified for.
Am I confident I can do it if I really put my mind, heart, and soul to it?
Absolutely.
But is my mind, heart, and soul interested in going that far?
Not if you can find a more viable, certainly more qualified candidate than myself that can run for office.
What do you say?
I certainly have not seen one who's more articulate or who is more eloquent or more passionately able to explain the problems that the Democrats have faced.
You've absolutely hit the nail on the head.
Let's just play hypothetics for a second.
Let's assume that's assumed you get talked into doing this.
Let's assume you run.
Let's assume you win.
You're in the White House.
You've had the inauguration.
You're president of the United States.
What would be the priorities for you, Stephen A. Smith?
You've had a good, long look at America, good, bad, and ugly for many years.
You've opined about it many, many times.
What would be your priorities if you were the president of the United States?
Number one, it's always the economy.
It's always the economy.
Putting money in people's pockets, me coming, being born in the Bronx, New York, raised in the streets of Hollis Queens, New York City, growing up relatively poor.
I'll tell you a really, really quick story that's really funny.
I remember when I was finally able to afford my own house in South Jersey back in, I believe it was 2001.
One of the funniest things is I never thought about this, right?
So a neighbor comes up to me and he's like, oh my God, Stephen A. You write for the Philadelphia Choir.
I'm a fan.
I watch you all the time.
I read you all the time.
Man, I love you.
I love you.
I love you.
And I looked at the guy and I was like, yeah, thank you.
But could you do me a favor?
You going to mow your grass?
Because his grass was like six feet high and it was like, it was very sloppy.
And I did not like that.
And why?
Because when you own a piece of property, you pay attention not just to your property, but to the neighborhood, because the neighborhood can bring down the value of your property.
Why am I telling that story?
Because when you have something to lose, you recognize what you've gained.
And as a result, your whole level of thinking evolves and you approach things a bit differently because you recognize, Piers, that you have something to lose, that you worked very, very hard to accomplish, establish, and ultimately sustain.
So, you know, prioritizing the economy, particularly as it pertains to the middle class, which is the lifeblood of this country, that would be priority number one.
When I think about immigration, that's up there because you certainly wouldn't have open borders under my administration.
I can assure you of that.
Would I be looking to deport everybody?
No.
Certainly, we're going to deport criminals, but we're also going to have to engage in some level of deportation because you do have it, maybe not as flagrantly as the Republicans try to come off as, but it's definitely been debilitating to this country to some degree.
And we knew that because Barack Obama himself stated that on many, many occasions as he was running for office.
And then when he entered office, before he departed, he was considered the deporter in chief because he deported 3 million migrants.
It was him that did that.
I saw you point that out in the past as well.
He deported more people than Trump.
So if you didn't have a problem with him doing so, you certainly can't complain about Donald Trump doing it.
Number three, when we're talking about foreign affairs, when I think about wars like Ukraine and Russia, when I think about Israel and Hamas, et cetera, I think about all of these things and obviously you're going to work.
I'm not, I wouldn't be a nationalist.
I appreciate America first having that mentality, but not at the expense of alienating most of the world against us.
I believe in being a globalist as opposed to a nationalist.
I believe in making sure that we ingratiate ourselves and cultivate friendships because I think that leads to less war.
And I think economically that can serve to benefit you.
So when you look at Trump and these tariffs, of course he makes a point when he points out we're getting hosed.
But to go about the business of rectifying it by alienating most of the world initially when really your target was China, okay, more so than anybody else.
How about going after them and rallying your allies to make a decision by choosing you instead of them when it comes to conducting business?
Those are the way I wouldn't be scared of war.
I wouldn't want it.
I wouldn't invite it.
But I believe, you know, you operate from a position of strength.
You want to make sure your military is strong and whatever.
So a lot of these sound like conservative views, but it's conservative views that were also adopted by Democrats who were centrists that recognize while you don't have to tilt all the way right.
You certainly are not interested in tilting all the way left either.
Moderate being somebody that has an alternative point of view that recognizes the fact that both extremes don't work for us, that would basically be a Stephen A. Smith administration because that's how I live my life.
I run across racists.
I run across people from my own community that can be bigoted in their own way.
I don't think either is right.
Piers Morgan and I don't have to agree, but if he respects me and I respect him, why can't we have an intelligent conversation challenging one another on ideas, knowing that we're open-minded enough to say, you know what?
He might have a point on this issue.
I think I want on that issue, but I think he's got me on that issue and govern that way.
Quality Life And Fitness00:02:44
Because when you do so, the American people and the world itself is going to be significantly more comfortable because they recognize that you're working together.
So because of that, you're exploring all ideas, which means everything was considered before decisions were made.
And that's when you have peace in the streets, when you focus on those things with that mentality, as opposed to being dogged in your ideological tilt where you're not willing to negotiate and discuss and compromise with anybody.
You know, I can't vote for you, even if I wanted to, but that kind of speech would have me racing down to a polling booth.
That's why I think we are going to see you run at some stage because you've got the passion.
And you come at this exactly the right place, which is the extremities on the right and the left, they're unelectable extremities.
What most Americans are like is actually they're more centrist.
That's the reality.
It's the same in the UK.
It's the same in most countries, actually.
I'll answer the question about it this way.
I'll give you a headline.
The contract that I have right now, the things that I'm doing, if there was a way for me to still do that and earn my money while running for president, that would be a different.
Then you'd have my curiosity.
Well, I have a better idea.
I have a better idea.
You've been my quality of life.
You've made enough money.
I have a better idea.
What would happen is to guarantee that you could do this without worrying about your current employment scenario, I would, with the ultimate sacrifice, step in and replace you in your current job on your current salary and allow you the freedom to go and run the country.
What about that?
Yeah.
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I mean, like I said before, my quality of life is very, very important to me.
Pragmatic Campaign Strategy00:09:37
I'm not surrendering it, Piers.
I'm not doing it.
I'm not doing it just to run for elected office, you know, and having to deal with hundreds of elected officials who have their own individual agendas, who may be devoid of the passion, devoid of the conscience, devoid of the commitment to making America as whole as we can possibly be.
I'd have to know that I'm good to give up all of that to deal with that kind of stress in my life.
I just can't see it.
But again, I promise my pastor, I promise the elected officials who approach me, I promise a lot of folks they rolled up on me in the streets and still do more so each and every day.
I promised them that I would leave the door open.
That's what I do, but I'm incredibly happy with my life.
I'm incredibly happy with my career, where it's going.
I got stuff that I can't even announce yet that's coming down the pike on top of what I'm doing for ESPN, where I'm going to make some, I intend to make some significant noise.
I'm not fading away from this political stratosphere at all.
I just don't, I just seriously doubt it will be as an elected official.
That is the most long-winded way of not saying no I've ever heard, Stephen A. Smith.
Thank you.
Thank you for coming on Uncensored.
I love interviewing you.
I'd love to do a longer interview.
I think you're a fascinating guy.
You are exactly what this debate needs.
Whether you end up running or not, you are what the Democrat Party in particular needs to hear.
And I think that we're going to debate now with a panel exactly what you've been saying.
But I think we have not heard the end of this and your door may creak more and more open as the next few years go by.
But it's great talking to you.
Might have to.
You might have to because I'm not going to stop calling it like I see it on either side.
I don't care if it's Democrats or Republicans.
If I got a problem with what they're doing, I'm going to let them know about it.
And I'm not going to be caught up in the fact that I'm a black man.
So automatically I'm supposed to be tilting towards the Democratic side.
I'm done with all of that.
I'm tired of that.
Let's make sure we debate.
Let's stop focusing on supporting individuals and let's look at policies that actually work and don't work for the United States of America.
That's what I would like us to focus on as a nation and as a world.
And I hope that we all lean towards doing just that.
I love it.
Stephen, great to talk to you.
Thank you very much.
You two, Piers, take care.
So what should the Democrats do other than try and persuade that guy to run?
What's a debate this?
I'm joined by journalist and political commentator Geraldo Rivera, the former independent candidate for president, Cornell West, Democratic TikTok commentator Harry Sisson, and back for more, founder of the Young Turks and former presidential candidate Cheng Hugo.
So welcome to all of you.
Geraldo, you know, every time I listen to Stephen A. Smith talk, I'm more impressed by him.
And although people say, well, he's got no experience, well, Trump had no experience.
He's won the White House twice.
We live in very different times now as to what constitutes the right kind of experience to run the United States.
Is there any reason why somebody like Stephen A. Smith could not actually end up running for president and potentially winning?
No, is the quick answer to that, Piers.
He is such an impressive and eloquent person.
And he has the tireless qualities I think you need to run.
He's robust.
He's macho.
He's confident.
He's everything the Democrats have not been.
My only advice to him as a friend and as a lawyer would be careful not to mess with that $100 million ESPN contract.
You know, I think he can do it.
Anything short of a formal announcement should be clear.
And if I were him, I would tease right up to the final moment years from now, a couple of years from now.
And then if the feeling still is as positive, the buzz is as optimistic as it is right now, you can announce he could do it.
He could do it.
So could Josh Shapiro mention the governor of California?
I think Gavin Newsom, the governor of California, more controversial, but I think he's got it.
He's got that quality also, that charisma, that confidence, that ability to shake off what used to be the Democratic Party, the manacles of wokeness and political correctness.
They have obviously not worked.
Let's cast them aside.
Let's go for pragmatic idealism.
I think that's what Stephen A. Smith embodies.
And I think that's why his teasing this candidacy, as unlikely as it may appear now, three and a half years out, is so enticing.
We have to shake off.
The Democrats have to shake off.
They have to do what the Republicans do.
They have to find Trump.
They have to find Trump too.
They have to find someone who has that ability to project.
Not only will I take care of you in terms of your security, but I will give this economy a boost.
I will raise this rising tide lifting all boats.
I think they've got to change absolutely what they have done.
Obviously, it's been disastrous up until now.
I mean, Harry, you've backed pretty much every Democrat loser imaginable.
Do you not, when you listen to, well, you can look bemused, but you put yourself wholeheartedly behind Josh A.
I like Josh Shapiro and Gavin Newsome.
They're all pretty.
I'm talking about the people you publicly backed who then got completely shellacked, like Biden, Carmen Harris, and so.
I publicly back Shapiro.
Okay.
But do you not, though, when I listen to Stephen A. Smith, because I don't think the old, you've got to be politically experienced stuff matters anymore.
Trump's just destroyed that narrative.
You don't have to.
You just have to be charismatic, a good communicator, and have a good message that resonates with people.
You can then get people around you that can do the political hard yards if you want to.
What I liked about what he said and the passion and eloquence that he delivered it with was he completely gets the problem the Democrats have found themselves in.
They've been hijacked by the woke left.
And you're seeing people, even like Gavin Newsome, racing back to the center ground because they realize that the woke progressive left arm of the party has got to be let go.
Piers, I actually agree with everything you just said and somewhat disagree on the experience.
Think that when it comes to running a campaign publicly, I don't think the American people value being a senator for X amount of years, being a House member for X amount of years as much as they did prior to Trump's years.
But I think that when it comes to doing the job, the experience does still matter if you want to be a good president.
But look, if your goal with your interview with Stephen A. Smith was to make him sound like a viable candidate, I think you were very successful, Piers.
I think you're right that he sounds authentic.
I think you're right that he sounds pragmatic.
I think that you're right that he actually diagnoses the problems in the Democratic Party, which is, I think, as you mentioned, Gavin Newsom has correctly pointed out.
We're so quick to attack people who don't 100% align with us.
We're quick to attack people who are not as progressive as we want them to be.
And we push them to the Republican Party, into the arms of Donald Trump.
So, no, I think that in modern-day America, 2024, 2025, and the 2028 election, I think Stephen A. Smith could absolutely be a viable candidate.
Will he win?
We'll see if he runs first.
Would you say, Harry, you've been de-woked?
Have I been?
It's a good question, Piers.
I don't think I've been like de-woke.
You've got a complaint first he transplant.
It sounds like wokeism has been sucked out of you.
Piers, I think that people like yourself and Gavin Newsom and Bill Maher and other people in the Democratic Party are right.
Like, you know, we lost badly.
We lost the House.
We lost the Senate.
We lost the presidency.
And things won't change unless we change.
So, you know, people have made their voices clear that they don't like the wokeism.
They don't like the cancel culture.
They don't like the progressive left.
They don't like the far-left policies.
And if we, the Democratic Party, continue to say, actually, we're going to force it down your throats, you're going to like them no matter what, we will continue to lose, and Donald Trump will continue to thrive.
And JD Vance or Marco Rubio in four years from now will be the next president of the United States.
Cornell, I mean, do you agree with this?
I mean, I've written a whole book about the woke rampage.
I wrote it three years ago.
I called it Wake Up.
It was a clarion call to my fellow liberals to wake up before it was too late.
People clearly didn't read it properly because they carried on down that progressive, hard left, woke agenda.
And Trump exploited that very skillfully with the Republican Party and he got re-elected.
I think it was one of the main reasons he did.
But do you think the party should abandon all of the wokeist stuff, or do you think it should just be realigned?
Let me first say a word about Brother Stephen Anthony Smith, though.
He's a highly talented brother.
I love and respect his pastor.
He's been there in East New York now for almost 40 years.
He was a member of the Black Panther Party early in his life.
And then he himself moved very much to the Senate, but he loves his people.
I'm talking about Brother Bernard.
I've been at his church many on many occasions.
But for me, you see, Brother Pierre, that I disagree with the framework that you bring.
You see, I don't think it's a bad thing to be woke about poverty.
It's not a bad thing to be woke about genocide in Gaza.
It's not a bad thing to be woke about the organized greed of the 1%.
Challenging Organized Greed00:02:12
Those are issues of moral and spiritual substance.
So it's not just about popularity.
There's got to be some integrity here.
It's not just about political expediency.
The vast majority of Germans were for Hitler.
So what?
They were still wrong.
They were still immoral.
Where does truth come in?
Where does truth and integrity come in here?
This is not just a matter of what kind of Machiavellian politics you can come up with.
Let me tell you: if you understand, if you understand my woke dogmatism of the left, then I'm against dogmatism of any sort.
But if you understand, woke people who are concerned about poor people and working people and colonized people and hated people, despised people.
If you're going to hate on trans and hate on gay people and downplay what's happening in Gaza with precious Palestinians, then sleepwalking is not a good thing, brother.
Okay, let me challenge it all.
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Cornell, let me challenge you.
Look, I made the point at the start of my last book, and I've just done a new book, which is going to come out in October tomorrow.
But I need to get to it.
I've got a new book called Woke is Dead coming out, just so you know, just to prepare you.
Woke Is Dead Book00:15:23
But what I would say to that is when woke was originally devised back in the 60s, from the music world, actually, mainly from the black music world in the 60s, it was supposed to be encouraging people to have more awareness of social and racial injustice.
And by that criteria, by that criteria, I would happily say, I want to be woke.
What happened in the last, but what happened in the last few years is that it became an extraordinarily virulent new form, ironically, I felt, of the very thing that woke people would say they hate most, of fascism, where it became something where people on the progressive left felt they had the right to tell Americans and around the world, but Americans, how to think, what heroes they can have, what movies they can enjoy, what humor they can laugh at, what clothes they can wear,
et cetera, et cetera, et cetera.
And it became a form of fascism.
And this cancel culture mentality became utterly brutal and unforgiving and completely, in my view, un-American.
And I would ask you, you know, you mentioned there that people hate trans.
I don't think it's ever been about people hating trans.
Well, no.
Well, I'm going to ask you, I'm going to hang on.
I'm going to ask you a question.
Do you think it was fair that biological males were allowed to compete in women's sport?
No, I was never for that.
Right.
So that was a key tenet of being of the modern day woke.
But one can still have a deep love of trans.
Yeah, that's fine.
There's fair competition.
That's fine.
No, that's fine.
I heard a lot of demonized, but look at the demonizing of Palestinians.
But one of the reasons why we can't talk about genocide is anti-Palestinian racism is so thick that all those deaths and all those babies don't mean nothing to people.
They don't count.
That ain't nothing but racism, brother.
Let's just be honest.
I have no problem.
I have no problem, Cornell, people talking up for the Palestinian people in the way that you just have.
I would quibble with the word genocide, and I have done.
I don't think it's a genocide.
What's happened?
However, however, however, Cornell, I do think way too many innocent people, women and children in Gaza have died, and this has to stop.
So I completely concede that point.
But I would also say that when I have guests on who refuse to condemn Hamas, refuse to condemn October the 7th.
And that happens a lot.
That shows me that there is another mindset there, which is, you know, that fine, only Palestinian lives matter.
And that all the lives that were taken on the other side don't matter.
That's wrong, too.
Murder is murder and human life is human life.
But for the most part, anti-Palestinian racism cuts so much deeper. than staying in contact with the lies of Israelis.
That is a fact in America.
In America, Israeli life has more value than Palestinian life.
Do you agree with that?
I don't agree with that, actually.
And I think the reality is I remember that.
I can tell you that in West London, where I live most of the time, the day after October the 7th, there were mass numbers of people in the streets in my high street because the Israeli embassy was there.
And I assumed they were turning out to support the Jewish people after this horrific massacre.
It turned out they were supporting Hamas.
And I thought that was an unbelievably despicable thing.
I haven't seen it.
I haven't seen it in America.
All the encampments I was blessed to be a part of, nobody got up and gave speeches talking about how wonderful Hamas were.
Not one.
And all the speeches that I gave had nothing to do with pro-Hamas.
It had to do with the vicious occupation and 78 years of subjugation and the killing of innocent Pope.
The killing of innocent Jewish brothers and sisters, their life is precious, just like any other human life.
And many of us made that point.
Yeah, and I would like, listen, I want to move it back to the Democrat Party's future, but just on that, I think that Palestinian and Israeli lives, they should have the same human rights.
Bottom line, end.
Cheng, let me bring you in here.
It's a really interesting debate for the soul of the Democrat Party.
You've been immersed in this for quite a while now, and I think you've seen the way the wind was blowing way before a lot of people.
But when you see someone like Stephen A. Smith, what do you think?
I mean, I just think he's clearly flirting with this.
He's getting more popular.
I think people really like him.
He's articulate.
He's intelligent.
He's strong.
I see him standing up to LeBron James and stuff when they have spats and whatever.
He's clearly got a fearless streak in him.
Why not Stephen A. Smith?
Yeah.
So I want to have a clarifying conversation here, and I want to offer you a better celebrity than Stephen A. Smith.
Look, I got no problems with the brother, and I'm not trying to hate.
Okay.
But, I mean, saying the first thing he'd do is economics.
What does that mean?
What's the policy behind economics?
He said he checked with his pastor.
I think it's more likely that he checked with his publicist.
But it's okay.
It's okay.
God bless.
Teach his own.
Okay.
So I'll get to the celebrity in a second.
But guys, there's three wings of the Democratic Party.
It's driving me crazy that you all are talking about it in a way that makes no sense and you lump in people that don't belong together.
I get why.
But so the three wings are what you guys keep talking about, radical left, woke left, whatever you want to call it, right?
But then you've got the establishment.
And that's the part that you guys never talk about.
So that's the Kamala Harris, Joe Biden.
They're not woke.
That's not their problem.
Their problem is that they were elitists, serve the donor class, or establishment figures.
Hillary Clinton, same exact thing.
Hillary wasn't woke at all.
She was just establishment 101.
Those are two different problems.
Then there's a third wing that I'm in, which is economic populism, that Rokana is in.
Nina Turner is in.
So Nina Turner brings in basically the black wing of the populist movement and talking about the freedom budget that the civil rights movement talked about.
Why?
It's an economic issue.
It's about populism.
About raising wages.
So, what do we focus on?
How can the Democratic Party win?
That's the most important thing.
So, higher wages, lower drug prices, lower housing prices, paid family leave, anti-war, money out of politics.
These are all democratic policies that are all intensely popular, over two-thirds for each one of those things.
So, you know, we talk about, oh, Stephen A. Smith gets a lot of airtime.
He does, but why?
You know, you guys mentioned Wes Moore.
Wes Moore's an incredibly charismatic guy.
I'm not sure that's the candidate that I want, but I'd be open to it.
But he just doesn't get enough airtime, right?
Same thing for Rokano.
Wonderfully articulate.
Geraldo's complimented him in the past, and he's a really smart guy.
But not just that.
Then we've got some real populists like Richard Ochetta running in North Carolina 9.
And these are, he served 24 years in the Army, ate nothing to do with woke.
It's about delivering for the average American.
But Piers, if we want to be obsessed with celebrities, why not Jon Stewart?
Jon Stewart's the only celebrity who's actually gotten a bill passed when he wasn't even in Congress.
It was spectacular.
It was amazing.
If I could take Stephen A. Smith's hype and his hutspa and the way that he gets out there and runs to the spotlight and put it on Jon Stewart, we'd have a winning comedy.
You know what I would say to that?
And it's interesting.
It's an interesting.
I love Jon Stewart.
But I think if you walked around with Jon Stewart and Stephen A. Smith in LA or New York, you're right.
Okay.
The smart crowd would all rush up to Jon Stewart.
You're the Messiah.
If you took them both down to Florida, to Texas, to Alabama, right?
To Middle America, if you took him, the pair of them down there, it would be the other way around.
You would see the people on the streets resonating far more with Stephen A. Smith than they ever would with Jon Stewart.
Jon Stewart, in a way, is a kind of elitist himself.
He's brilliant, but he's part of the elite comedic establishment.
He is.
Come on.
He's a multi-millionaire.
No, but then why isn't Stephen A. Smith elitist?
No, no, you can't have that.
Because I think the sport in a way.
Stephen A. Smith is an elite, even though he's a celebrity.
It doesn't make any sense.
Because he commentates on a sport which is about as far from elitist in terms of where most of the players come from that you could imagine.
Right?
Because they're mostly working people.
There isn't one thing Jon Stewart has done that's elitist.
There isn't one thing.
No, I think by definition, if you're part of wonderful people.
I would say if you're part of the New York elite comedic TV set, you are by definition part of the media establishment.
Let's put it like that.
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How is Stephen A. Smith not part of the TV set?
I mean, the man is glued to the TV.
And why are we having a conversation between Stephen A. Smith and Jon Stewart?
Because I think they're very different.
Let me ask the biggest TV.
Let me ask the biggest TV star.
Let me ask the biggest TV star of the four of us.
Sorry, Cornell, it's not you.
David Chaffee on the run.
I'm going to ask Geraldo, who is by far the biggest TV star of the five of us.
Geraldo, Jon Stewart be Stephen A. Jon Stewart be Stephen A. Smith.
Your thoughts?
I like Jon Stewart a lot.
I think he is brilliant in his comedy is sarcasm.
And I think that's his greatest strength is his strong suit.
But I don't think sarcasm sells the way populism does.
Stephen A. Smith has indicated and gives off the vibe.
You know, sometimes it's indescribable, you know, or a mystery where it comes from.
He's from the Bronx.
It's a charisma that Trump has.
Trump is an amazing.
Trump is the biggest movie star on earth right now.
He's charismatic.
He's magnetic.
He's someone who I think that even in he's survived these 100 days, sometimes catastrophes of his own making, but he has emerged.
He had the great meeting with the Canadian Prime Minister today.
I think that I just want to add quickly, parenthetically, I also don't want you to exclude Sean Hannity, who think it would be a wonderful candidate for president, and either of the Cuomo brothers, Andrew, the former governor who's now running and is the probable next mayor of New York, and also Chris Cuomo, who I submit was the first to recognize in Stephen A. Smith this possibility, however,
unrealistic it may be, that Stephen A. Smith might be a viable candidate.
But I think the main point that we are all talking about and avoiding is that the Democrats have to shake off what they have done up until now.
They have failed utterly.
They failed when they did not bounce Joe Biden from the candidacy long before it was recognized.
He was a borderline dementia.
And I love the guy.
He's only eight months older than I am.
I feel regret that he did not have the grace and the pragmatism to withdraw much earlier.
And so the Democrats could have had a primary.
I don't think Hamala Harris would have won that primary, even if it was a quick one on a short schedule.
If you remember how she bombed the last time she tried.
And I think that she's also going to be an awful candidate for governor of California.
And the Republicans will have an opportunity there because they see that one thing that has not been mentioned, immigration.
The Democrats have been so wishy-washy on immigration, all they do is recite the mantra and the Statue of Liberty and don't recognize how offensive immigration is.
The border has to be sealed.
And then you need compassion, you need attention, but immigration is an issue that's the elephant in the room.
It has not been mentioned, but I wonder what Stephen A. Smith would say about immigration.
He said, well, he actually has 140 different ethnicities.
Well, you know what?
He actually was quite strong about it.
And he cited something I've said a lot.
He quoted me, which is that actually the biggest deporter in modern presidential times was Barack Obama, who deported over 3 million people, way more than Trump has done.
But the left didn't even know.
When I asked my liberal friends, Obama didn't gratuitously terrify people.
And Trump has done that so unnecessarily.
Well, as always, it can be the way Trump goes about it more than what he's actually doing.
I mean, Harry, look, there's a lot of names being thrown around here.
You represent the young wing of the Democrat Party.
Who would you like to see become the next leader of your party?
I think there are so many talented people in the Democratic Party right now.
But who gets your juices flowing, honestly?
I mean, who actually exercises you to think, yeah, that's the one.
That's the Bill Clinton that can energize us.
That's the Barack Obama.
Because they're the two Democrat leaders in my adult life where I've really felt, wow, those two.
And I thought they were both rock stars.
I don't see a rock star out there.
And in fact, the nearest thing I've seen to it is Stephen A. Smith, genuinely.
And I think that a lot of people share your view.
For me personally, I think folks like Pete Buttigieg, or as we've talked about today, Wes Moore, who is incredibly characteristic of the people.
Budijej has no chance.
No chance.
You really think Pete Buttigieg is incredibly smart?
I think he's really articulate.
I think he portrays himself really well.
People are never going to vote for him to be president of the United States.
I don't see why not.
I mean, he has served.
He doesn't have enough charisma.
I think Pete Butige to win these days, you've got to be charismatic.
You've got to have something about you which can carry people with you.
I don't see that Pete Buttigieg at all.
I mean, I think that his ability to go into Republican spaces like Fox News so consistently and make the case with the Democratic Party is so impressive.
There's not really many people in the Democratic Party doing that right now.
I think that strategy in and of itself can kind of peel some people who might be Biden Trump voters or typically a little bit more conservative.
This guy is totally unrealistic.
Totally unrealistic, Pete Butige.
I mean, it's like you heard the Saturday Night Live last week had something on Trump signing presidential executive orders banning biracial ads on TV.
There are too many biracial ads with a black husband and a white wife and vice versa and so forth.
Unrealistic Political Strategy00:12:31
You know, Pete Buttigieg and his sexuality.
Maybe for the woke class, we're way overdue to recognize that you could be gay and be a wonderful charismatic, inclusive leader.
But that is, if you're talking about elephants in the room, there's absolutely no way, despite the fact that Pete Buttigieg is a legitimate war hero with a combat economy.
You don't think a gay person never happened.
You don't think a gay person could ever be president?
Wait, hold on.
I think that it is exactly the look.
Go ahead.
But I think that's just, if you talk about woke, that's woke.
All right.
But like in 2008, in 2008, Obama.
No, no, no.
No.
Go on, 2008.
No, this is all wrong.
Okay.
So hold on, guys.
Hold on.
Look, you know, you want to talk about people going to Republican, right-wing independent spaces.
I do that, right?
And so when you, what I'm trying to get at is independence, because that's who you need to win elections, right?
We need to get real here.
So the problem with being woke isn't someone who's gay.
Who cares if they're gay or straight, et cetera?
That's not the issue at all.
So you could say, hey, some of the DEI went too far.
The transport stuff issues went too far.
But that isn't about being gay or not being gay.
No, the problem with Butigic has nothing to do with that.
The problem with Budig is that he appeals to the elites.
He's a super smart guy.
So when he goes on TV and he talks about how he speaks six languages, all the elites are like, yes, Budig, he's so Harvard educated, right?
But that doesn't appeal to the average guy.
That's not going to win over independence.
That's his actual problem.
By the way, Andrew Cuomo is also part of the establishment.
Sean Hannity is also part of the establishment.
What does the establishment always want?
Serve the donors, serve the donors.
That's the problem with Budig.
That's the problem with all those guys.
What are we doing as economic populists?
Look, I started Rebellion Pact.
We're building a team.
We're building a team.
So you give me any one of those guys, and our team is going to win because we've got all these different people in there.
Roe is kind of so strategic and smart, and Ojeta's like a lead pipe.
He's a populist.
Then you got Nick Hanauer, who's a super smart guy.
He's not part of Rebellion Pact or anything, but he's part of our allies.
And he's got a middle-out strategy that's an economic model where you give to the middle class.
Stop giving to the rich.
Give to the middle class.
And the middle class then spends the money and then it creates a healthier economy.
Let me bring it and it's also electorally the right strategy.
All right, Cornell.
But let me agree with my brother Sheikh that, I mean, I'm blessed to have a show with me in a turn on Tervis Smiley's magnificent 1580 talk show in LA.
Brother Geraldo knows Brother Talbot.
Both love Raldo and Tams, even though Raldo and I fight on all kinds of issues.
But Brother Schink is right.
And Nina Turner is one of the giants in the Democratic Party precisely because she is a certain, she has an affinity to Bernie Sanders, who's the best thing that the Democratic Party ever had, even though he's never in it.
He's certainly of it.
But the reality is that the establishment of the Democratic Party would never in a million years put up with economic populism.
It would never put up with Bernie.
It would never put up with Nina Turner.
That upsets me, but I recognize that is a reality.
That's why I reached the conclusion, and this is why I ran, this is why Justice for All, the party that we're trying to generate, that the Democratic Party is beyond redemption.
Republican Party is beyond redemption.
We're living in a spiritually sick country with organized greed and unbelievable weaponized hatred.
And they're both part of a two-party system that is so corrupt.
The donors control both parties.
People know that 90 million Americans, the biggest bloc, decided not to vote at all.
How come?
Because they know the system is corrupt.
They know it's legalized bribery and normalized corruption and politicized larceny.
That's what American politics is.
And we have to come to terms with that.
That's why the empire is declining.
That's why the empire is decadent.
That's why they're grabbing for a tyrant against the named Trump.
Trump is able to mobilize that fear.
Everybody knows he's beneath mediocre.
Everybody knows he's corrupt.
Everybody knows he's a liar.
Everybody knows he's a gangster.
That's who he is.
God bless him.
He's also a graduate of what is also a graduate of the Wharton School.
He's also someone who's not even this.
This has teamed me up nicely for my final question for you.
But Geraldo, I'll start with you because like a bottle of chateau la tour from Bordeaux in France, you get better with age.
But Trump was talking to NBC and he said Biden was the worst thing to ever happen to old people.
Let's take a look.
Biden is the worst thing that ever happened to old people.
So is that right, Geraldo?
Is he the worst thing that ever happened to you?
I think that just briefly giving a nod to Nina Turner, my Cleveland neighbor, I think she is absolutely wonderful.
And Rokana, one of the best congressmen there is.
AOC, I just want to mention her.
I think that Joe Biden's frailty and the fact I mentioned earlier that he's only eight months older than I am did give the impression, I think, to many people who are watching this program probably that there is a chronological do not run point.
And maybe there should be age limitations.
But there's also, let me speak up for zesty senior citizens.
I have a very robust life.
You know what?
Warren Buffett just announced he's retiring.
He's 94.
Rupert Murdoch, who's been my boss on and off for 30 odd years, he's 94, I think.
Dame Joan Collins, who I have regular dinner with, is 92, I think, and looks like she's 50.
I don't think it's about age, Cornell.
You're another example of a fine wine growing.
Have you heard Arthur Rubenstein play Brahms' piano concerto number one at 87 years old?
Yes.
He put the same 27-year-old pianists.
And you're showing exactly the same.
And Cornell, Cornell, you're showing.
Cornell.
Looking like he's 55.
And so do you, Cornell?
That's the point.
I was about to pay you.
About to pay you a compliment.
You are the Rubenstein of political punditry.
And long, long may you last.
Harry is the youngest member of this panel.
My hair is going to get old one day.
The wrinkles are coming in already.
I can feel it.
Yeah.
What's your view, Harry, very quickly?
Trump says Biden's the worst thing to happen to old people.
I don't even know what he means by that.
Is he talking about like policy?
Is he talking about public perception?
I don't think so.
No, I think he's talking about the fact that he was very close to Biden's age, but everyone thinks that Biden was a zombie.
Oh, okay.
So if we're talking from public perception, then yeah, I think that like Joe Biden's age and the American people's perception of Joe Biden at his age certainly probably hurt your average person's view on like getting older and age.
I mean, I guess that's all I can probably say about that.
All right, now, Harry, I can't let you go without asking you something.
It's a little delicate, but you were quite vocal about Trump.
And after that, where you're going with this.
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I know where you're going with this, Piers.
I can't ask you a question?
No, you can ask me a question.
Okay, look.
So as you know, in March, there were reports that you had allegedly, use that word deliberately, lured several women on Snapchat to share explicit photographs of themselves and circulated online these reports.
Is that true?
I'm 22 years old.
I'm a young guy.
I'm still in college.
And I'm now in a relationship.
I have a girlfriend.
But prior to having a girlfriend, I was a single man.
And I would live a single life.
And there were people I talked to and interacted with.
But I guess that's, I don't know, that's all I'll say about that.
I mean, apparently some of the women said that you acted inappropriately.
Would you accept that?
Oh, no, I would not.
So it was always appropriate.
I mean, as I talked about in a video I made regarding this, it was all among adults who were consensual.
I think those are two very important characteristics.
And if those are present, then I think it's not inappropriate.
And if it ever was a moment where they were not interested anymore, that's perfectly fine.
I'm always of the view that consent is always the number one thing.
How did you feel about being at the center of a scandal?
I think at my age, being really young, having sensitive things like that on the internet is hard.
It's kind of, it's a weird thing.
It's also hard to talk to anybody about because it's, you know, not many people my age can relate to this and being like, oh, yeah, I remember when I had my first Snapchat scandal.
So it was a little isolating, but I think I've learned a lot from that.
And I think that, you know, I really try to take negative things that happen and look at the good in them and learn from them and grow from them.
And so that's what I'm doing right now.
I'm learning and growing and trying to be a better man every single day.
And that's where I'm at.
Well, Harry, it's good to have you back on Uncensored.
I'm glad we gave you the chance to.
Yeah, Cheng.
Piers, Piers, I don't know a thing about that so-called scandal, but are you trying to do cancer culture here?
No, I'm trying to do the opposite.
I've got him on my show.
I've asked him a question about something that was in the news, and he's answered.
It's the opposite of canceled culture.
I don't think, Harry.
I don't think Harry.
I mean, look, I've survived.
I thought he should be cancelled.
He wouldn't be able to do that.
I'm going to try 12 different cancel culture things.
The mere fact he's sitting here on a panel with you is illustrative that I do not think he should be cancelled.
And can I say, I appreciate you asking about this, Piers, and like allowing for a clarification.
And I mean that genuinely because it was a weird time to go through.
So I mean that.
Yeah, listen, I think I had to ask you.
You've answered.
You've not been back on since it all blew up.
I've asked you the question.
You've given an answer.
That's it.
You are definitely not cancelled.
Chen, you might be checked in if you carry off.
Okay.
Okay, hold on.
Piers, I got a fun prediction.
Come on.
I don't know what Snapchat.
I got a fun prediction to end this.
Okay, you ready?
Yeah.
Piers, back on the topic, and to conclude here, I have a fun prediction for you.
I think that at some point you're going to realize that Rebellion Pact is the way to go and that you, Piers Morgan, are going to join the rebellion.
Well, you know what?
As Stephen A. Smith said, I'll keep that door open, Chenk.
I never say never at this stage of life.
What a great panel.
Thank you all very much indeed.
And what a testament to age being just a number.
It's not about the age.
It's about what you like at an age that matters.
And all of you in different ways live up to that.
So thank you all very much.
Thank you, Pierce.
Thanks.
Thank you, little brother.
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