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March 11, 2025 - Uncensored - Piers Morgan
42:23
20250311_hes-innocent-maga-clash-over-andrew-tate-with-mich
Transcriber: nvidia/parakeet-tdt-0.6b-v2, sat-12l-sm, and large-v3-turbo
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Time Text
Alleged Crimes and Due Process 00:14:42
I know these boys better than just about anybody here.
Had the Me Too movement not been at its apex, I don't even believe these boys would have been indicted.
And he thinks that Governor DeSantis and the new AG are absolutely correct to go after the alleged criminal activity, open an investigation, see where it leads.
We have to maintain the presumption of innocence, even and especially in Me Too movements.
How many MAGA are in support of Andrew Tate?
The number would be very small.
Ever since Tate started talking about Israel, I've noticed that the tone's changed a lot.
Michael, do you think Andrew and Tristan will go back to Romania?
President Trump's election was powered by a broad coalition of voters who were united by their desire for change.
But MAGA isn't united on everything.
Andrew and Tristan Tate's visit to the U.S. has divided the right, as evidenced by the frosty reception they got from Florida's governor, Ron DeSantis.
No involvement in that.
I read about it through the media.
Clearly, the federal government has jurisdiction whether they want to rebuff his entry into the United States.
And I have confidence that whether it's Pam Bondi or Christino, that they will be looking at that.
I do know our Attorney General, James Uthmeyer, is looking at what state hooks and jurisdiction we may have to be able to deal with this.
But the reality is, is no, Florida is not a place where you're welcome with that type of conduct in the air.
And I don't know how it came to this.
We were not involved.
We were not notified.
I found out through the media that this was something that was happening.
Well, Florida opened a criminal investigation into the Tates shortly afterwards, and the brothers moved on to Las Vegas, where they got a decidedly warmer reception.
They even sat cage-side at the UFC after shaking hands with head honcho Dana White.
Now, critics on the right said the brothers are immoral, alleged criminals who have no place in the conservative movement.
Supporters say, tough luck, they're back and they're an embodiment of the free speech-embracing, woke-rejecting movement that just took back control.
So who is right?
Well, Zach Bonfilio, aka the Misfit Patriot, and host TMP Uncensored, former CAPO of the Colombo crime family, Michael Francis, defense lawyer and legal scholar Alan Dershowitz, radio host and senior policy advisor to the American Family Association, Jenna Ellis, and Sarah Stock, journalist at slightlyoffensive.com, have all joined me to debate this.
Let me start with you, if I may, Jenna Ellis.
What is your, you object to the Tates.
Given that at the moment, they haven't been convicted of any crimes.
What is your main objection to them?
Yeah, so the problem that I have with conservatives pushing this false dichotomy is that they're making the argument that if the Tates are objecting to some things on the left, then that makes them solidly right.
I think that we need to define the contours and boundaries of what a true conservative is instead of pushing this false dichotomy.
So the Tates rose to fame with some really good influence at the height of the woke feminization of culture.
Andrew Tate was right about masculinity returning.
He was right about mass migration.
He made some good comments on some other things.
But that doesn't mean that conservatives then need to go and treat them with kid gloves, invite them to conversations, and completely ignore all of the other alleged criminal activity.
I mean, the Tates are openly saying that they've had sex with 15-year-old girls, that they've used underage girls on webcams.
They made their fortune on pornography.
Those are not conservative values.
And some of these things are allegedly criminal.
So for conservatives to suggest that this is just lawfare, lawfare is a two-sided coin.
Because yes, it's lawfare if you go after your political opponents, but it's also lawfare if you don't pursue a valid criminal investigation against your political allies.
So I think that we need to be more nuanced here.
And I think that Governor DeSantis, my own governor in the state of Florida, and the new AG, James Uthmeyer, are absolutely correct to go after the alleged criminal activity, open an investigation, see where it leads.
That's what the law is supposed to do.
Yes, innocent till proven guilty, but they're not just completely innocent because they happen to align with conservatives on some narrow issues.
Okay.
Alan Dershowitz, I want to play a clip from Andrew Tate, who appeared on the Patrick David PBD podcast a few days ago.
Let's take a listen.
No, but let's understand why has the Matrix put this paradigm together?
Why do they allow and continue to tell us that women are better than us to destroy masculinity?
They're equal to us, even though they need DEI.
And at the same time, they're children who are susceptible to our godlike powers to control their minds and that we're responsible for all of the decisions.
It's very simple.
Because by putting together that paradigm, they can pick any man at random they don't like.
Me, Trump, Heg Seth, I think had this.
Matt Gates had this.
They could pick any man at random they don't like.
They can call every girl he's ever known and they can get a criminal case.
Alan Dershowitz, it's a complicated situation here where the Tates were being held in Romania and weren't allowed to leave the country.
I think as many as 40 women had come forward with allegations against them, but there had been no trial.
In the UK, four other women had come forward to file civil claims against them.
But again, there's been no trial there either.
So they are technically innocent till proven guilty, as you would expect everyone to be.
Their view is it's lawfare against them.
Other people are saying, well, you know, go through the process, finish it off, face the music, face justice.
What do you feel about this?
Well, it is a complicated problem.
We have a presumption of innocence, but it doesn't apply when it comes to the Me Too movement.
In the Me Too movement, if you call yourself a victim, you are deemed a victim, which means the person that you allegedly accuse is deemed to be guilty.
For example, take the Jeffrey Epstein matter.
They have refused to reveal a lot of material that would show that some of the accusers had a history of making up stories.
So what they do is they protect the alleged victims without having decided who the victims are.
In my case, I was accused and it was ultimately proved that I was the victim.
I didn't know anybody.
I didn't do anything wrong.
I was simply picked out and accused, and I was the victim.
And the reason that I was able to prove that I was the victim was that I had access to all this information.
But the vast majority of people who are falsely accused can't prove that.
So we have to maintain the presumption of innocence, even and especially in Me Too movements where so many of the alleged accusers have a financial stake in making the accusation against prominent and wealthy people.
So let's maintain our presumption of innocence for all cases, not just cases that are popular and not defy it in cases that are unpopular.
These guys may be guilty as hell.
They may be innocent.
They may be somewhere in between.
Let's wait until the process unfolds before we attach consequences.
And that's what we're doing.
Attach consequences to the claim of victimization.
Some people who claim are not victimization.
But from a legal point of view, can the Romanian authorities force them to go back to Romania to continue the legal process there?
And in the UK, there are calls for them to be extradited back to the UK.
Again, can that happen?
I mean, in other words, is there any way that the Tate brothers can be forced to return either to Romania or the UK to face what many think would be a proper due process of justice?
Yes, if there are extradition treaties between Romania and the two countries, they can be extradited pursuant to the law.
Again, that's consistent with the presumption of innocence.
That is, you must return to face trial.
In fact, the Romanian authorities conditioned their release on a commitment by them that they would return to face charges if the Romanian authorities insisted on bringing these charges.
So part of the presumption of innocence is that you must submit yourself to a process by which your guilt can be determined.
So it cuts both ways.
Okay, Zach Bonfilio, you know, I've interviewed the Tates a few times now, Andrew Tate, I think three or four times.
And I've got to say, most young people, young men under the age of about 25, they come up to me all the time and just want to know what do I really think about Andrew Tate.
And I'm not entirely sure if all the allegations against him are true.
He's a despicable abuser of women.
Some of the stuff he said from his own mouth, which is on tapes that have gone viral on social media, is reprehensible.
He says it's mostly performative.
He doesn't really mean it.
It's like it's all part of an act, role play and so on.
He ran a webcam business and made a lot of money for him and his brother and also for the for many of his girls concerned, which again, muddies the waters of what was really going on.
And we may never know if there's no proper court case here.
But I would also say that, you know, they have huge influence, the Tates.
And a lot of what they say to young men about, you know, working out, keeping fit, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera, all the sort of more positive stuff is fine.
Where they cross a line for me, Andrew Tate in particular, is the constant misogyny, which I think is really damaging.
And putting aside the allegations against him of a much more serious nature, sex trafficking and so on, the constant misogyny pumped out to millions of his followers, and in particular, impressionable young men, boys, I think is very damaging.
What's your view of the Tates?
Well, I think that people are conflating two different things, all right?
They think that the reason why certain people presume that the Tates are guilty is because of things that they said, right?
Like you, like you said, oh, some of the things that he said are reprehensible.
I don't care what he said.
I care what he did.
It's important to remember that a lot of the evidence that's put forward against Andrew Tate was uploaded by Andrew Tate.
There is a video of him slapping around a girl whose age has been verified through court documents to be 15 years old.
All right.
I mean, there's no presumption of innocence when I can see it.
Okay.
And you're talking about, again, the court of public opinion versus the court of law.
We want him to have due process.
But innocent till proven guilty doesn't mean that you are innocent.
It just means that you have to go through the process, which they are doing.
The court cases in Romania, if similar to the UK, could take four to six years based on the average sexual assault case in that country.
So the people that are saying, oh, if he was guilty, he would already be in jail.
No.
I mean, this process takes a very long time.
Even in the U.S., it can take years.
So the fact that it's been just under three years and he hasn't been found guilty yet does not mean he's innocent.
We're being told that he's innocent because he hasn't been proven guilty wrong.
If I see somebody doing something on camera and I can verify that the thing that they are doing is illegal, I am going to say that that person committed a crime.
So we're being gaslit by the people that support Andrew Tate.
And also, Zach, I mean, I think you're a MAGA.
You identify as MAGA, is that correct?
Correct.
Right.
So what's really interesting to me about all this is also the politics, which is you have the Republican movement in America pretty split down the middle here, where you've got a lot of Republicans who say, look, the Tates, they're a force for good.
What they've been saying is empowering to young men, et cetera, et cetera.
And we embrace and support them.
You see that a lot at the moment.
You also see a lot of people like Ben Shapiro and Megan Kelly and others, very high-profile conservative commentators, hammering them.
So you're seeing the Republican movement split pretty much down the middle here and a sort of battle.
I don't think it's the middle.
Well, and a battle for what the actual values of the Republican Party now are.
What do you feel about that?
Again, I don't think that it's even split closely down the middle.
I think that there is a loud voice of a small group of people that support Andrew Tate that have nothing to do with conservative values, Republican values, constitutional values, nothing.
These are clout chasers who are just going after Andrew Tate because he gets a lot of, he has a lot of influence.
He drives a lot of attention and he's very good at messaging.
I mean, the people that I've seen that are joining in on the fight against the Tates on my side, these are true MAGA, true conservatives.
They are the majority of the party.
And I bet you if you were to really look at it and dive deep, take a poll and find out how many MAGA are in support of Andrew Tate, the number would be very small.
The problem is we're viewing this through the online space of social media clout where they get engagement and they, I would say, like which they themselves can fuel to many millions of people, thereby massively amplifying it.
Let me bring in Michael Francis.
I mean, Michael, you know, famously, the Mafia did a lot of very bad things, as we know, but they also had a famous respect for women.
How would the Mafia, well, how do you as a former mafia captain, how do you view somebody like the Tates, and in particular, Andrew Tate, given the brazen misogyny that pours out of his mouth?
Well, Pierce, let me say this.
I've spent a lot of time with both brothers.
I've visited Romania twice, spent several days with them.
Both times I had my wife and daughter with me, my younger daughter.
And I want to respectfully disagree with Zach.
Innocent until proven guilty means you're innocent legally.
You can take a photo, you can take a video, it's taken out of context.
I know this for a fact.
I was tried five times.
I was charged with criminal activity five times.
I went to trial five times.
The case was either dismissed or I was acquitted in each case.
They couldn't come up with a conviction.
You know, and I'll say this, you said it earlier, Pierce.
A lot of what Andrew does or says is an act.
I've met him.
I know him.
I know their personal story.
I know their background.
I went into the case with them in Romania, which is, by the way, falling apart.
Presumption of Innocence Challenged 00:15:11
There is no evidence.
I've spoken to some of the women that were, you know, were forced to say things.
They refused, but they were trying, the government was trying to get them to say things against Andrew and Tristan.
They refused to do it.
They told me exactly what happened.
The case is falling apart there.
I don't think it's ever going to go to trial because there is no evidence.
And, you know, for them to come here in Florida and DeSantis to, you know, all of a sudden open up an investigation based upon what?
Based upon the news media, based upon the Me Too movement?
There's no evidence there to say they did anything criminal whatsoever.
And, you know, I think there are a lot of magazines.
I can tell you this.
I can tell you this.
In Florida, there's people that are asking Andrew to run for Congress.
He had a very warm reception there outside of DeSantis.
He's got a very warm reception in Vegas.
And if he comes to California, he'll have a very warm reception here.
Well, we have got actually, we've got a clip of Andrew Tate.
He went on the Candice Owen show and he was talking about Florida's politics involving him.
Let's take a look.
I'm truly disgusted.
And if I be honest, there's a lot of rumors flying around.
I got a phone call from somebody very important who told me that the DeSantis crew are extremely worried that I was going to support Byron against his wife in the Floridian governor elections.
I'm new to this.
I don't know anything about Floridian politics.
I didn't even know DeSantis and Trump didn't get along.
I didn't know any of this.
I'm just a man after three years who flew home and everyone's telling me that you're a political pawn and you can motivate and activate the masculine youth and you're going to get them all to vote against his wife.
And that's why they're trying to take you out politically because Trump supported the guy against his wife.
And I don't, this is brand new to me.
Let me bring in Sarah Stock here.
I mean, a lot of women like the Tates.
A lot of women hate the Tates.
There's not much middle ground here.
You know, like I say, as someone who's got, I've got a father of three sons, all adult, but I wouldn't like to hear them talk about women the way that Andrew Tate does.
And he seems to pride himself on it.
Are you entirely comfortable with being completely supportive of him without really knowing perhaps the truth about what happened with all these other women who've made the very serious claims?
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I don't think I've ever claimed to be completely supportive of Andrew Tate.
I mean, I'm a Christian.
I don't agree with a lot of the sexual degenerate lifestyle that he promotes, which, by the way, I would say a lot of people in the conservative movement promote similar sexual degenerate lifestyles themselves.
We have Dave Rubin renting out women's wombs to buy surrogate children with his husband.
And I find that equally as disgusting.
But I think we need to be able to separate people's personal lives from what's actually going on here legally and say, okay, Andrew Tate is a U.S. citizen.
He's just trying to fly home.
And then we have this whole politically motivated witch hunt to go after him.
This would not be happening if he wasn't a public figure and if he didn't have such controversial views.
And I would also say that I think when Tate first came out on the scene, a lot of conservatives, big names like Ben Shapiro or whatever, fully supported him because they saw that feminists were going after him for saying these misogynistic things about women.
And it was totally blown out of proportion.
Ever since Tate started talking about Israel and going after what's happening with Israel and Palestine, I've noticed that the tone's changed a lot in conservative circles.
Yeah, I mean, that is interesting.
And I'll bring Alan Allen in on that.
I mean, I have noticed that too.
There's no doubt that certain people in the conservative movement have turned against the Tates, having previously been pretty supportive of them because Andrew Tate converted to Islam, or said he did, and has been very outspoken attacking Israel and supporting the Palestinians, which again is, you know, maybe part of the reason why the conservative movement is so split over them.
Well, he certainly has the right to be propelled.
Sorry, that's for Alan.
Sorry, yeah.
It doesn't change my views on the presumption of innocence.
Indeed, it strengthens it.
If he's unpopular because of his views on Israel, we have to make sure that we reaffirm his presumption of innocence legally on the serious charges he faces.
So, for me, his views on Israel are irrelevant legally.
They're perfectly relevant as to whether I would support him as a person or not.
But so are his other activities and what he has said on television, his attitude toward women.
All of that influences my decision not to support him in any way, politically or ideologically.
But I go out of the way to make sure I support the presumption of innocence even more strongly for people with whom I disagree politically.
Right.
I mean, the presumption of innocence does, yeah, the presumption of innocence does not mean that you have a free pass just because you are a public figure or you're a political target against some of these really serious accusations.
And for Governor DeSantis and A.G. Uthmeier to say they're coming to Florida and there's credible evidence that there was a nexus to Florida that allegedly he's grooming women that he ultimately used who were minors on his webcam on a pornography.
I mean, sex trafficking, pornography, those are not political issues when it comes to the law.
And so presumption of innocence doesn't mean, again, that he gets a free password that this is lawfare.
Because if we are suggesting that just because we agree with Andrew Tate on some things and that lawfare does happen in political targeting, then somehow we're going to shield him as a political ally.
Then that is also lawfare.
And we should not, as conservatives, support that because either you are for the rule of law or you are not.
Yeah, I mean, just to remind people, I just remind people exactly what it is they're facing.
I mean, the four women in the UK who filed a civil lawsuit against Andrew Tate, it was for rape and coercive control.
They issued a statement to CNN that said, we're in disbelief.
We feel re-traumatized by the news.
The Romanian authorities have given into pressure from the Trump administration to allow Andrew Tate to travel to the United States.
They're still awaiting trial in Romania over 40 serious charges of trafficking, coercion, and rape.
Romanian prosecutors said that only the travel restrictions against the brothers have been lifted, while all other obligations remain in effect, including the requirement to appear before judicial authorities whenever summons.
I mean, on that point, Zach, I mean, I guess it's possible they could be forced back to Romania.
I think it's unlikely.
I mean, I think if you're the Tates, you're going to keep moving probably around America until you find a safe state where they may have found it already in Las Vegas, judging by the reaction they got there.
And you're going to stay there on you rather than risk any more legal jeopardy.
You're not going to voluntarily get on any more planes out of America, are you?
Well, sure, but also it seems.
Oh, sorry.
Well, actually, Alan, on the legal bit, I'll come to Zach for a response.
But Alan, legally, what's the position there?
Extradition is a federal issue, not a state issue.
And so if the Romanian authorities seek to extradite him, they will seek from the United States Justice Department his extradition.
And if the extradition, which is a treaty matter, is carried through, no matter where he tries to hide in whatever state might give him better, better protection, Las Vegas, Nevada, instead of Florida, he's not going to be protected from federal extradition.
But if it turns out, Alan, if it turns out that the Trump administration, as has been widely rumored, did directly get involved with Romania at government level to allow them to leave the country, that would suggest they're probably not going to entertain the idea under the Trump administration of allowing extradition to happen.
That's correct.
And actually, extradition takes two forms.
First you have to go and get a court decree, but then the United States government and the State Department and the Justice Department have to validate it.
And the Trump administration could preclude him from being sent back to Romania.
Again, I state that only as a legal conclusion, not as something I think should happen.
Right.
So, Zach, I mean, it seems to me, like I say, my gut feeling is they're not going to get on any planes leaving America, that they found a safe sanctuary.
If it is true, as I think it probably is, that the Trump administration at some level has done some kind of deal agreement with the Romanian authorities to let them leave in the first place, I think it's just unlikely they're going to entertain any thought of allowing extradition.
Therefore, they can stay in America, avoid any more legal activity if they are not in a state like Florida, which has now indicated it would independently investigate them.
So if they find a friendly state, like I say, that probably means it's the end of their legal jeopardy.
And many people will say, well, that's completely wrong.
Yeah, I think, well, there's a couple of things.
First of all, there is a victim in Florida.
She's one of the victims named in the Romanian lawsuit, right?
And one of Andrew Tate's supporters just doxxed this woman with her full name yesterday or the day before.
So when Andrew Tate came to Florida stating, where are the victims?
Where are the victims?
Four out of the seven victims in the Romanian case have not recanted their statements, all right?
This victim in Florida just reaffirmed her statement to the Romanian authorities.
Secondly, you talk about hiding in states that are friendly to him, which he probably assumed was a Florida one.
I believe that it's the Protect Act of 2003, Section 105, makes it a federal crime to have sex with any persons under the age of 18 abroad.
It's basically a sex tourism law.
It's applied to a lot of people who go to Thailand and come back, and then they get arrested here.
As far as Trump and the Trump administration assisting him, the Romanian authorities have come out and said that that's actually not true.
That's a rumor.
And it's based off of the fact that Rick Grinnell said that he supports the Tate as per his publicly available tweets.
It's a very bad optics look for Alina Haba to be on Betty Johnson's podcast with him saying she's a big fan, Rick Grinnell saying he's a fan, and a couple of other people in the Trump orbit.
But I don't think that Trump himself has intervened at all in this.
If anything, it is a rogue actor like possibly Grinnell.
And if that's true, Rick Grinnell needs to be fired because you can't start intervening on cases in other countries, especially when it comes to the sex trafficking of children.
As far as these MAGA conservatives, we talk all the time, release the Epstein list, release the Epstein list.
The Tate list has already been released by Andrew Tate.
There's dozens of hours of footage of him admitting on camera through multiple interviews that he has sex with underage girls and simultaneously calls himself a Romanian citizen or sorry, a United States citizen.
So if you are a United States citizen and you are not respecting our laws, traveling abroad and sleeping with girls who in this country are considered minors, you are now a minor attracted person.
You are now considered in this country to be committing a crime under the Protect Act.
So I don't think that Andrew Tate can hide anywhere.
I think that if with enough pressure from, like I said, true MAGA to the Trump administration, I believe he's going to come out very soon and condemn them the same way he condemned Jeffrey Epstein after he found out about his nefarious activities.
Okay, Michael, I think last time I spoke to you, we talked about the fact you'd faced a boycott of your stage show because people objected to the fact you'd interviewed Andrew Tate, which I thought was a preposterous attack on your free speech.
And free speech, you know, is something that Andrew Tate goes on about a lot and says that this is an attempt to silence him.
It's the Matrix and so on and so on.
If it turns out that this stuff is all true, a lot of people who are throwing their weight behind fully supported will look pretty stupid, won't they?
Well, I guess you can say that, but you know, listen, first of all, I want to disagree with something.
You know, Rick Prinnell, you don't fire somebody like that because they support somebody that's innocent until proven guilty.
You may have a different if he intervened, not if he supports them, but if he intervened and he went and he did it behind Trump's back, get rid of him now for optics purposes only.
We don't know that, and I don't think they're concerned about optics.
I think they really know about lawfare since Trump was a victim of that.
And I think we can all agree on that.
They understand lawfare.
I can tell you this: if this didn't happen through the, if the Me Too movement wasn't at its height, I don't think Andrew would be going through all of this.
Tristan, neither.
And I, and I believe that.
And again, I know their attorney.
I've looked into the case.
I'm very familiar with the charges in Romania.
Those charges are falling apart.
I don't think they had any right in Florida to arbitrarily start an investigation.
It was politically motivated.
It's very easy to see.
It wasn't.
It wasn't arbitrary.
There is a victim who is.
No, that is what the purpose of the Attorney General in Florida is doing is protecting victims when, as Zach said, I mean, Andrew Tate has said himself, and it's on video.
And I mean, if this were anybody else, take it aside that it's Andrew Tate.
If this were a trend Diaragua gang member, if this were somebody that was a violent, illegal alien, then MAGA would all be saying ship him back to Mexico.
But the fact that they like Andrew Tate because he has certain touch points and is very popular, now suddenly this is lawfare.
That is not the way that the law works.
That's not the way the presumption of innocence works.
And that should not be the way that conservatives champion our values.
We have to get back to understanding where the parameters are because this isn't political.
Sex trafficking isn't political.
Putting women on webcams and pornography, that's not political when it comes to the attorney general of Florida doing his job.
Yeah, well, I disagree.
And I think what you should do, there's a video out there that there was a decision that came down by the civil court judge with respect to this woman.
And Tristan explains it in the video.
And that came out a couple of months ago.
I'm not going to get into that.
But I think what you're saying about this victim is not true.
And the court found out otherwise in the civil matter.
Sex Trafficking Beyond Politics 00:03:40
So you should look into that before you, you know, you make a statement.
And it's not exactly what you're saying.
The Florida Attorney General is looking into it.
That's the point.
It was, but no, you should look into it also because you're making a statement.
And there was already a decision rendered by the judge in this case.
Florida has not brought charges yet.
They're opening an investigation.
And what you're suggesting is that that is a politically motivated investigation when an investigation is simply to determine the fact.
Well, you believe it.
That doesn't make that true.
And so the Florida Attorney General's job is to look at whether there is criminal activity.
It doesn't make what you're saying is true either.
This is your assumption.
And I'm saying, DeSantis, it's a known fact.
DeSantis and Trump do not get along.
Do not get along.
What Andrew said was exactly right.
At Mar-a-Lago the other day, DeSantis and Trump get along, and it is Roger Stone who is pushing out MAGA to continue this ridiculous rift.
DeSantis and Trump fully get along.
They put their past behind them with that they ran in the primary, just like Marfa Rubio, who ran against Trump in 2016, is now the Secretary of State.
That is a false talking point that's being perpetuated to try to drive a wedge between Trump and DeSantis.
That's completely false.
Well, that's what you say.
That's your opinion of it.
I mean, then why are they golfing at Mar-a-Lago together?
And there was a photo that DeSantis just tweeted out of Casey and Trump on the golf course together.
Excuse me, a lot of people get together with Trump.
That doesn't mean they're good friends.
And you should know that.
And I know that.
Okay.
You want to talk about optics?
There are options.
But it happens to be.
Michael, can I, Michael?
Ask you if you had any contact with Andrew Tate since he got to America.
Yes, I have.
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My daughter's having an engagement party and both the Tates are invited.
I, I know these, these boys, better than just about anybody here.
I have a personal relationship and Pierce, I want to tell you something.
I've had my daughter.
My daughter communicates with Tristan all the time, very respectful, no issue, and that's because i've delved into their past.
These two young men grew up in a very difficult situation, extremely difficult, that none of you people are aware of.
I'm not saying everything they did was right.
Look, I have a very independent wife and five very independent daughters.
I'm anything but a misogynist and I don't respect misogynism in any way, shape or form.
I was accused of misogyny uh, by a person in the in the uh, United Kingdom parliament, just because I had a picture with Andrew Tate.
So that's how out of control this has gone with the Me Too movement.
Had the Me Too movement not been at its apex, I don't even believe these boys would have been indicted.
And you know, if you want to think of the Me Too, if the Me Too movement hadn't, if the Me Too movement hadn't pushed only fans, why don't they know that's the guy that created only fans?
Because just because the Me Too movement overcorrected with believe all women doesn't mean that we should start saying believe no women.
There is very credible evidence against the Tates, right?
So you can't just say, oh, we know if if, the if.
Your argument is that that Andrew Tate comes out and claims, all right, there are no victims.
And then I go, hey, here's five victims.
Andrew Tate is a liar.
Okay, I am telling you, there are victims.
They have not recanted their statements and you keep on running with this whole talking point.
Jurisdictional Proof and Evidence 00:02:36
There's no evidence.
There's no evidence, right?
There is hundreds of thousands of pages of documents in the Romanian court case.
I can send you a picture if you'd like.
I've run through many of the court documents.
Okay, so you've run through that evidence.
You're gonna make it.
You're gonna make it.
You're gonna make a statement that says none of that's true.
Okay no, i'm not saying.
Let me ask you a question Zach, you're so?
No, it's taking years because of a lack of evidence.
That's how long did the trumpet?
Hey, listen on Donald.
Donald Trump's case was on accusation only.
All right.
There is no video of Donald Trump slapping around a 15 year old girl.
There is no video of Donald Trump saying he sleeps with 15 year olds.
There is no video of Donald Trump there's no evidence choking her.
What is the result of all the cases against Donald?
How long did that take?
What did it take?
I don't know.
Answer some of them.
Okay, let Alan jump in.
Alan, i'm gonna add something legally, um evidence, It matters where it occurred.
That is, for Florida to conduct a successful investigation, the actual crime has to have occurred in Florida.
It doesn't matter if she was a Florida citizen or a resident of Florida.
If it happened in Romania, Florida has no jurisdiction.
Now, you did correctly mention a statute, the tourism statute, but that requires that you travel to a place for the purpose of having sex with an underage girl.
If you have a relationship, you live in Romania, you're in Romania for a long period of time, and you happen to have a relationship with somebody who is underage under Florida law, Las Vegas, Nevada law, that wouldn't be enough.
So, from a legal point of view, it's very important to know where the allegations occurred and what the evidence is that there was a crime within the jurisdiction of the state, or if it's a federal crime, within the jurisdiction of the travel, et cetera, et cetera.
So, from a legal point of view, very different from a court of public relations point of view, the specifics are very, very important.
And I'm not aware of a lot of the specifics here as to whether or not there is proof that any of them committed crimes within the jurisdiction of a particular state with the United States.
Maybe there is, and if so, then investigation is completely proper.
That's a really interesting thing.
The Florida Attorney General has said that there is.
And until that investigation reaches its conclusion, I think it's very premature to suggest that this is purely political when we're talking about the political.
Musk Collaboration vs Ideology 00:04:44
Well, if there is evidence, as Alan said, if there is evidence, then that will be potentially a game changer.
Let me bring in Sarah because we've run out of time, but Sarah, you've been waiting patiently here.
I am genuinely fascinated by what's going on about the heart of the conservative movement in America, because it always used to be the party of Republicans, the party of family values, marriage, all that kind of thing.
We now have characters like the Tates getting a lot of support from the right in America.
You're getting people like Elon Musk rising to the sort of seat at the side of the President of the United States, who's got 14 kids by four women and so on and so on.
People are scratching their heads and going, How does this all sit with the kind of Christian right in America?
What would you say?
Yeah, I mean, this is an issue that I talk about all the time.
It's honestly really concerning to me.
Conservatives don't seem to care much anymore at all about things like pornography, abortion, actually having a family unit.
We don't oppose homosexuality anymore publicly.
You'll get canceled for that as a conservative.
So, I definitely see that as an issue.
I don't even think that Andrew Tate really considers himself or calls himself a conservative.
I think he's just aligned with some ideas on the right on things like immigration, which I would agree with him on those things as well.
I don't think we need to be accepting all of his views on everything else.
I'm a Christian.
I don't agree with his views on Islam at all.
But yeah, this is definitely something we're seeing.
I mean, why aren't we treating Elon Musk as the same level as sexual degenerate as Andrew Tate?
I mean, Elon Musk is practically openly practicing polygamy right now.
He's going back and forth.
He has multiple women with children.
Well, I think the point is, Elon Musk is not currently married, I don't think.
I'm not sure actually, about his married, and so therefore he's entitled, I guess, to have relationships with who he likes.
He's openly said he wants to increase the global population and is leading by example.
So he's not a hypocrite, I guess.
And he's rich enough to support everybody properly.
So I guess, you know, we may find it weird, but I don't think he's doing anything that's remotely criminal.
And I think the point here for conservatives is that family means a man and a woman in marriage having a child, not just simply populating the country.
So where I disagree with Donald Trump on his executive order on IVF is that when he's saying, let's just have more babies.
Well, we have to define the context first.
And the context needs to be the traditional nuclear family because that is the cornerstone of society and also that leads to human flourishing.
Conservatives have to come back to those parameters.
That's one view of conservatism.
The other view of conservatism is keep the state out of decisions involving people's personal lives.
And so that's all conservative.
That's where that's getting us.
That's conservative.
You're thinking of Christian.
Christian, conservative and conservative are two different things.
Everybody's business and telling them what to do religiously.
And so, you know, I think a lot of conservatives align themselves more with a libertarian approach than they do with kind of religious social conservatives.
Well, then why not just call yourselves libertarians?
You know what?
It's all getting conservatives call themselves libertarians when they hold this view.
I think ironically.
I think ironically, the right in America has got very politically fluid.
And you're seeing a lot of people who were on the left, whether it's RFK, Tulsi Gabbard, Elon Musk, Joe Rogan, all these guys.
You know, they're all moving pretty much to the other side, which is just a really interesting phenomenon that's happened in the last year.
When you talk about expanding the tent, everyone was like, we need a big tent party.
And then you got the faction of Christian conservatives or Christian fundamentalists who are like, yeah, but we want to expand the party, but not with those people.
It's like, well, you can't have it both ways.
We have to do it.
There's a difference between collaboration on an issue like agreeing with Tate on immigration, but not saying that he is a conservative or saying that he speaks for the conservative movement.
I'm happy to collaborate with feminists on the women's sports issue, but that doesn't mean that they're conservatives.
And so that's why we need to define what true.
Listen, we've run out of time.
We've run out of time, but I want to ask Michael, given he's been talking to Andrew Tate.
Michael, do you think Andrew and Tristan will go back to Romania?
Well, from what I heard from their lawyer, they are going to go back on the 24th of March.
Running Out of Time 00:01:28
That was the last that I heard of it.
That was the agreement that was made that they would go back.
But I do want to say this also, Pierce, in answer to Zach.
I've been on trial five times.
It doesn't take three years to bring a case to trial when there's hard evidence.
The problem in Romania is they keep looking for more evidence because they don't have enough to take it to trial at this point in time.
Because he doesn't shut his mouth.
He keeps adding evidence.
The court has told the prosecutors, you don't have enough evidence here.
Go find something, bring something.
And that's what they're trying to do.
And they're trying to get women to say things that they don't want to say.
I've spoken to the women that they try to get that, and they won't do it.
And they're searching for evidence.
And that's the bottom line.
The case is nonsense.
It's garbage.
The same thing is going to happen here in Florida.
I believe that.
I'm intimately involved with them.
And let me tell you something.
I have no business with them.
I have nothing to gain.
This is just my relationship and what I find to be true about them.
Bottom line.
Okay.
Fascinating debate.
Thank you all very much.
I really appreciate it.
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