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Sept. 5, 2024 - Uncensored - Piers Morgan
21:28
20240905_trumps-debate-tactics
Transcriber: nvidia/parakeet-tdt-0.6b-v2, sat-12l-sm, and large-v3-turbo
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Time Text
Trump's Tough Persona 00:09:55
Everybody knows Donald Trump is tough.
He's the boss of bosses.
He was a toddler and he threw a temper tantrum after he lost a fair election.
Why was Kamala Harris incapable of being able to get into a room with Donald Trump as president?
Most of the American people don't really know which Kamala Harris is going to show up on the debate stage.
This is just ridiculous.
We all know him that his biggest flaw is that he's a perfectionist.
I mean, do you read his bleats?
He doesn't even spell things correctly.
This debate is going to be the first time the American people are actually going to see Kamala Harris.
It's shameful and the media should be held accountable for it.
Piers, I got to tell you, that was one of the most absurd interviews I've ever had to watch in my life.
In just a few days, former President Trump will face Vice President Kamala Harris in a live televised debate.
The 90-minute showdown on ABC will be the first time the two candidates have ever faced off, and it could have massive implications for the frantic final months of the campaign.
Bolster Frank Luntz reckons the winner of the debate will win the presidential election.
There have been weeks of frenzied speculation about muted mics, notepads, leg turns, and rules.
But whatever the rules end up being, how are the campaigns preparing to win?
Well, Corey Lewandowski, who was Trump's campaign manager in 2016, when, of course, Trump won the presidency, has rejoined the team.
And he joins me now with the Inside Track.
Well, hopefully.
Corey, great to see you again.
Thanks for having me.
It's been a while.
Talked to you a lot in 2016.
I remember the very early days of the Trump campaign.
It was basically Donald Trump, you, Hope Hicks, the press secretary, and Keith Schiller, the bodyguard.
That was it.
The gang of four.
That was the whole thing.
Yeah.
And I mean, just to start, given I haven't spoken to you for quite a few years now, but when you think back to those early days in 2015 from when he first announced he was running, and no one gave him a chance, I was one of the few people out there going, I think he's going to win.
And people would openly laugh at me.
Did you believe when you were with him with that very small but very dedicated team, did you believe he was going to win in 2016?
You know, Pierce, I knew he was going to win.
And I knew it when I went to an event with him in my home state of New Hampshire.
And I'd been to hundreds, if not thousands, of events in New Hampshire.
One of the first events we ever did, we showed up at a VFW hall in the middle of the summer.
There were probably 700 people inside and literally the people were standing on the roof and they came out and they started shaking the car like they were seeing the Beatles.
And I couldn't understand fully at the time what was going on.
They were so excited just to see him and to have a non-politician get into the race.
When I saw that, I said, we have something special.
And then it became a movement.
I remember another moment, which was when the Pope appeared to criticize Donald Trump for building the wall and criticizing quite openly.
And Trump's response was extraordinary, actually, because he came back and said, well, last time I checked, words to this effect, there's a wall around the Vatican protecting the Pope.
And he gave it, you know, back as hard as he got it.
And I remember you saying to me at the time, you know, for someone to stand up to the Pope is quite a big deal.
But it showed you how fearless Donald Trump is.
And of course, he, you know, as we've seen with the assassination attempt, he is, when it comes to it, pretty fearless.
He is.
And listen, I think the American people have seen him as the greatest counterpuncher ever.
And look, I'm a Catholic, right?
So going after the Pope to me was kind of, you know, very, very tough.
But we were in South Carolina at the time.
And he said, what's the population of Catholics here in the States?
Is this going to hurt me?
I said, it's 11%, sir.
He said, it doesn't matter if it's right or wrong.
It's the right thing to do.
And we're going to hit back.
And then, you know, Pierce, there's some things you can't teach.
And you've known Donald Trump a long time.
After he gets shot in the ear, he stands up, not because he had rehearsed this or because anybody thought this could happen.
He says, fight, fight, fight.
And this is a man who has been in the arena.
You know, you hear often the man who enters the arena, the man who's going to get into the ring to fight.
Everybody knows that he is a fighter.
What most of the American people don't see, but you have, is how generous he is privately, how magnanimous he is behind the scenes, how gracious he is to his friends and his family once you get to know him and how big of a heart he has.
And so I think that as this campaign goes forward, part of what my job really wants to be is to show the American people that Donald Trump I've gotten to know over the last decade, not just a tough guy that everybody knows has been shot, stood up, and continues to fight, but that special man who has that big heart that he really wants to implore to the American people.
Well, that's really interesting.
It's interesting you say that, Corey, because many people say that Donald Trump's biggest problem is himself, that he sometimes just can't help doing stuff which is self-harming.
And I think there's no doubt that he does that.
It's all part of his makeup.
But all those characteristics which you just highlighted, which I have seen privately, that he was incredibly loyal to me when I left CNN, for example, when most Americans just cut me off their contacts list and moved on to the next one.
Donald Trump stayed in touch and was genuinely interested in what I was going to do next.
But I remember that.
So he's got a lot of qualities.
Also, when I did the Assembly Apprentice, when you sit opposite someone for hours every night for weeks on end, they can't hide what they're really like.
And he showed a lot of empathy in that environment.
He was very gracious to the women, for example, I remember, et cetera, et cetera.
But he hides a lot of that stuff from his political persona.
And I'm curious why you think he does that and how you're going to persuade him after eight years as a politician to open up to that side of himself.
Because I think it would help him, but he doesn't want to do it.
Look, everybody knows Donald Trump is tough, whether he's negotiating against Xi Jongping or he's standing up to Vladimir Putin or whatever it is.
Everyone knows he's tough.
He's the boss of bosses.
That everybody knows.
But, you know, Pierce, we had him in a setting just last week in Wisconsin with a former congresswoman from Hawaii, Telsi Gabbard, where she sat there and asked him questions in a town hall format.
And these questions were heartfelt.
She talked about her experience with IVF, not something that we often talk about on the campaign trail.
He listened intently and then had the opportunity to answer questions from people in the audience who were struggling.
That's where I want to see Donald Trump continue to go.
The rallies are amazing.
We've seen so many of them, the tens of thousands of people who turn out to support him.
But those special moments when he goes over and he talks to someone and he listens intently and then tells that person what he's going to do to make their lives better, that's something that I want to continue to portray.
He's doing a town hall tonight with Sean Hannity.
But more than that, I think as this campaign progresses over the next nine weeks, you'll see those very regularly, Donald Trump's opportunity to interact with everyday Americans and hear what their plights are and what he can do to fix it.
What are his biggest faults?
Well, look, his biggest fault is he's always right, which he is most of the time.
Oh, Corey, that's not a fault.
But here's the other thing.
Being always right is not a fault.
Come on.
You know him better than anyone.
You've outlined his qualities.
What are the faults?
He's a tremendous perfectionist.
You know, he's a tremendous perfectionist and he demands perfection from everybody else around him.
And that puts an enormous stress on the team.
And that's okay because I think he deserves that perfection.
And I don't ask anybody on this team to work harder than Donald Trump.
I just ask them to work as hard as he does.
And you know this.
He's up early.
He's working all the time.
There's no off switch on Donald Trump.
You know, we flew back after RFK Jr. endorsed him from the West Coast and we didn't land until about 3 o'clock in the morning on the East Coast.
And he said, okay, let's meet at 7 a.m. tomorrow and let's get going again.
You know, for many people, they can't maintain that level of intensity, but that's all he knows is intensity all the time.
This debate is going to be massive, as the last one was.
The last one was historically consequential.
Joe Biden pulled out after it because he was so useless in that debate, and it was embarrassing to watch.
How's Donald Trump going to play it against Karmala Harris?
They've never debated before.
It seems to me that since Biden quit, Trump has slightly struggled to work out the best way to attack Karmala Harris.
Well, for 90 minutes, it's him and her.
Has he worked out the correct strategy, do you think?
Well, Pierce, what's amazing is that these two individuals have never met.
That goes to show you just how ineffective.
They've never actually met.
Look, I think the only time they've ever been in the same room is when she attended the State of the Union speeches that he delivered when he was the president.
That goes to show how ineffective she's been as a U.S. Senator.
No interaction in bipartisan negotiations on a number of major issues, including providing the last, the largest tax cut in American history.
She was nowhere to be found.
So we're going to see what that looks like.
And here's what it comes down to, Pierce.
Most of the American people don't really know which Kamala Harris is going to show up on the debate stage.
Is it going to be the one who's against fracking in Pennsylvania as she pledged, or the one that's now in favor of it?
Is it going to be the one who said the wall was a vanity project or the one who now says, no, I'm going to build the wall?
Is it going to be the one who said Donald Trump destroyed the economy and supported Bidenomics before she's against it?
Or is it going to be the one who said, I now support no tax on tips before she was against that?
So this debate, this 90-minute opportunity, and I hope the moderators are fair and let the candidates have their discussions.
But this debate is going to be the first time the American people are actually going to see Kamala Harris because she's been employing the same tactics that Joe Biden did, which is for 45 days, she gave 18 minutes and 36 seconds of an interview to Dana Bash, and that's been the sum total of her time talking to the media.
It's shameful, and the media should be held accountable for it.
It is, but it also worked for Joe Biden in 2020.
Winning Strategy Flaw 00:11:33
He won the election.
I mean, are you not concerned that this is actually a winning strategy?
You may not like it, but it is a winning strategy.
But here's the difference, Piers.
In 2020, we're in the middle of the COVID pandemic.
And what we saw was a massive increase of absentee ballot voting.
Those drop boxes were used.
No validation to the signatures.
We know that.
I mean, let's not kid ourselves.
In 2016, the average Dropbox received and rejected about 3% of the ballots that were put in there.
In 2020, while the increase was 10X, the rejection rate went to 0.003 because they no longer validated the signatures.
They just took them, and we saw record numbers of people voting because of COVID.
We're going to go back to where things normally stand now, which means people are going to have to show up.
They're going to have to prove that they're legal citizens.
And that gives us the opportunity once again to implement our ground effort, turn our people out, make sure that we have a free and fair election.
And we know that if that's the case, it's too big to rig.
Donald Trump is going to win.
So she can't hide forever.
And the media has to put some pressure on her to start answering some real questions.
Kamala Harris is going to come after him hard about abortion.
She's made that pretty clear.
What is Donald Trump's position on abortion?
Well, I think he's been very clear.
He appointed three U.S. Supreme Court justices who ultimately led to the overturning of Roe v. Wade to put this issue back to the states because the states are the laboratories of democracy.
And here's what happens now.
People in most of these states are given the privilege to go to the ballot and vote for what they want.
Every state's going to look a little different.
And what we've seen, Pierce, in this country is states like Kansas and Ohio, which have historically been conservative states, are continuing to give women the right to have an abortion up until a certain date.
It's on the ballot in Florida.
What Donald Trump has said was, let's let the people decide we should no longer be dictating at the federal level what is the best policy for everybody.
And that's how the system is supposed to work.
We are a constitutional republic.
You get to go and vote.
You get to decide what's best for your state.
And what may happen in Massachusetts may look very different than my home state of New Hampshire.
How did Donald Trump persuade you to come back and work on the campaign?
You know, Pierce, like you, he and I have been friends for a long time.
And he called me.
And he said, Corey, you know, would you ever think about coming back?
And I had a great life.
I have a great life with my kids and my wife up in New Hampshire.
But Pierce, I'm concerned about the history of our country, the future of our country.
And I said to my four children who are all high school age or younger, I said, I will see you in nine weeks.
At the time, it was 12 weeks.
I said, I will see you then.
Because if I don't do everything I can to help save this republic, I don't know who will.
And I truly believe as a patriot, as a family, of a military family, our entire lives, if Donald Trump isn't the next president of the United States, that we will cross a precipice that we'll never be able to come back from.
I spoke to him a week after he was shot.
He rang me and we had a very good chat.
And at the end of it, I said, I'd love to do another interview with you, President Trump.
We've done over 40 together now.
He said, absolutely, let's do it.
You're now one of the key men on his team.
Can we get a date in the diary?
Listen, I'd love to have it.
I know you've always been fair to the president.
We've had some back and forth a few times, but you've always been a fair, honest broker.
So if it's up to me, the answer is yes.
We've got 62 days to go.
I don't know if you're going to be back over here anytime soon.
I can be on a plane in three microseconds, Corey.
You say the words.
I'm flying.
Well, let me find some time and we'll get back to you.
I'd love to do it.
It'd be great.
It'd be good to see you.
Nice to have you back on Sanson.
Good to talk to you.
Thank you.
Well, with a view from the opposite side of the spectrum, I'm joined by Tim Miller, the host of the Bulwark podcast, a former communications director for Jeb Bush, who, of course, Trump famously called low energy in the 2016 presidential campaign.
Well, good to see you, Tim.
Were you listening to that?
What did you make of it?
Piers, I got to tell you, that was one of the most absurd interviews I've ever had to watch in my life.
And I just can't even believe that I had to sit through it.
I just took a couple notes here.
Donald Trump was tough standing up to Xi Jinping, really.
He totally folded to Xi Jinping during COVID, did nothing to try to push back on him at all.
Donald Trump really behind the scenes cares about what the right things to do are, that he's a listener, that he listens to people.
Like, this is just ridiculous.
We all know him, that his biggest flaw is that he's a perfectionist.
I mean, do you read his bleats?
He doesn't even spell things correctly.
But the most important thing I want to pick on is that little exchange you had about, oh, oh, it's so surprising they've never met.
Do you know why Trump and Kamala Harris have never met, Pierce?
Did you think, have you thought about it for a second?
Do you know why they really haven't met?
Tell me.
Because he was a toddler and he threw a temper tantrum after he lost a fair election.
And for the first time in America since the Civil War, we did not have a peaceful transfer of power.
We did not have a ceremonial transfer of power where the former president, like a man, goes and stands on the stage and greets the next incoming president, where he helps the incoming team with the transition, where the vice president's team meets with the...
That didn't happen last time because Donald Trump attempted a coup and he had a temper tantrum and he flew home to Mar-a-Lago just to go golfers on the picket.
That's what happened.
That's why they haven't met.
Because he tried to coup.
Well, to be clear, at the time, I heavily criticized him for all the things you've just said.
But that doesn't explain why.
Yeah, sure.
But Corey Ludowski comes on your show and he's like, oh, Donald Trump and Kamala haven't met.
Well, hang on.
Oh, my goodness.
That's so interesting.
They haven't met.
And then Corey's over there saying, it's because Kamala was ineffective as a senator.
It doesn't mean that.
No, it's because Donald Trump was supposed to be a deal maker, didn't meet with any of the Democratic senators.
He said he was going to be the art of the deal man, but he didn't try to actually do any deals.
All he did was insult people on Twitter.
And then after he lost to Kamala Harris, Karen Square and Joe Biden, he didn't have the dignity to have a transfer of power for the first time in American history.
I've just said embarrassing.
He's an embarrassment.
I've just said I agree with you.
So let's park to one side.
Well, but you didn't say it to Corey.
You didn't challenge Corey.
It was a very chummy interview.
I know you want to get Trump on the show, but it's very chummy.
Okay.
And you didn't challenge Corey that much.
Trump can be chummy too.
I don't think I've been unchummy to you.
I don't even know you.
I've known Donald Trump.
No, we can be chummy.
I've known Corey.
I've known Corey.
Somebody that's the close advisor to Donald Trump on the podcast.
You'd think that you could challenge him a little bit.
I was just going to ask you this question.
The point that he made, Corey Lemandowski, was it was surprising to him they'd never met, given that Trump was president for four years before the transfer of power, January 6th, this news that you'll talk about.
Why was Kamala Harris one of the hundred senators in the United States at the time?
Why was she incapable of being able to get into a room with Donald Trump, the president?
How was she not invited?
Why did the president not invite her to the White House?
Why didn't she make herself invite ran?
It's not a job.
If Donald Trump ran on this BS nonsense and come on this show, I'm the art of the deal, man.
I'm a deal maker, which was a book he didn't even write that got ghostwritten.
It was this fake persona.
It was this Hollywood persona that he conned the American people into believing that he was some deal maker.
Then he gets in the White House and he doesn't even try to work with the Democrats on a deal.
All he does is insult them.
He does nicknames.
He trashes them.
He didn't cut any deals.
Donald Trump, Joe Biden ended up being the deal maker in this.
Can I ask you to get a bipartisan deal on gay marriage, on infrastructure?
That's why Kamala didn't go to the White House.
He didn't ever invite her.
How about that?
Well, yeah, I don't know.
Did you try that?
If I was a senator, I'd have made sure I got invited.
But let me ask you, I'm curious about your own journey.
You were Jeb Bush's guy, Republican, and now you're a Democrat.
How does that happen?
Well, I'm not a Democrat.
I left the party in 2020.
Very good timing, I thought.
In about November of 2020, after the election, I was hopeful throughout 2020.
I was hopeful that we could get our party back from Donald Trump and get back to a more classical, liberal, traditional party that had a respect for the rule of law, that had a respect for our allies abroad, international relationships, that a respect for immigration and the immigrant story and how that's an important part of America.
I was hoping we could get back to that kind of compassionate conservatism after 2020.
And then what happened was Donald Trump lost and he threw an extended temper tantrum.
And rather than standing up to him, rather than telling him, sir, Mr. President, it's time for you to accept your loss and move on, all of the Republicans basically went along with it.
And everybody participated in this absurd lie, in this absurd fantasy where every Republican was like, yeah, we're worried about the voting machines.
And I was so disheartened and disoriented, discouraged by that, that I wrote an article saying I was leaving the party.
It ended up being totally correct over the next five years that now everyone who spoke out against Trump, like Liz Cheney and Adam Kinzinger, has been thrust out of the party.
And people who are like embarrassing clowns are made to be the nominee of our party and like Mark Robinson in North Carolina or Jerry Lake in Arizona simply because they're willing to suck up to Donald Trump.
It's not a traditional conservative or a classically liberal party anymore.
It's an embarrassment.
It's a cult of one man.
And I'm very happy to leave it.
And I think everything that's happened over the last five years has validated all of my criticisms of the party.
But you really look at Kamala Harris and think she's the one that's going to beat Trump because I don't.
Well, I mean, she's beating him in the polls right now.
Well, that's not true.
I talked to Nate Sylvia from 538.
He's obviously number crutched every poll imaginable.
He says he's basically completely 50-50 neck in this case.
If you look at it, he said, literally, you can't.
So she's not beating him in the polls.
And the truth is, I fear for the Democrat side, I fear that what is going to happen on the 10th with this debate is that Trump is going to win.
I think he's going to be too overwhelming for Kamala Harris to deal with.
I might be wrong.
And we'll get you back the next day if you like.
And we'll discuss.
No, I'd love to.
We have kind of an agreement on that.
I'm nervous, Piers.
I'm nervous.
I'm not over.
I'm sorry.
I'm not over here saying I think the Democrats are going to win a landslide.
I don't.
I think it's a very close election.
I think that Kamala Harris has surprised a lot of people with the way that she's conducted herself in the campaign over the first six weeks.
I think she's offered a very compelling message.
I thought her convention, honestly, there were times at her convention.
It could have been the John McCain convention with her appeals to, you know, kind of American strength and American patriotism, their USA chance.
And so I think that she tried to appeal to the big middle of the country.
I think the debate's going to be tough.
Donald Trump is a very good debater.
There's some liberals who out there think Donald Trump is his brain is mush and he's a terrible debater.
I don't think that.
I've watched it with Jeb.
I saw it close hand.
I think he's a good debater.
And I think that she has a tough challenge ahead of her.
If she loses the debate, does she lose the election?
I don't think so.
I mean, look, there are very few debates that are knockout punches.
What we saw in the last one was an aberration, not the norm.
You don't see that very often.
Usually it's a mixed bag with some, you know, some people thinking one one, something the other one.
So no, I don't think that the debate is make or break.
I think it's very important.
I think that a lot of the American people want to see that she can stand up to Trump and see that she's up for this.
And because she's still getting introduced.
And so I think it's very important to her for sure.
Yeah.
Tim Miller, host of the Bullwalk podcast at New Orleans.
Great to talk to you.
Thanks, Pierce.
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