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July 8, 2024 - Uncensored - Piers Morgan
42:42
20240708_president-biden-refuses-to-stand-down
Transcriber: nvidia/parakeet-tdt-0.6b-v2, sat-12l-sm, and large-v3-turbo
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Historic Ass Kicking Prediction 00:06:14
I can't believe I'm saying this, but I actually think they're going to stick with Biden.
And I think he's going to get, relatively speaking, an historic ass kicking come November 5th.
That's my prediction right now.
President Biden's prime-time interview with a sympathetic ABC News anchor was supposed to be the beginning of a fight back.
Instead, it quickly became another missing piece in a presidential Jenga Tower that's now teetering on the verge of collapse.
If the Democrats do have a plan to rescue this election, their candidate is categorically unable to articulate it.
What's your plan to turn the campaign around?
You saw it today.
How many people draw crowds like I drew today?
Do you find me more enthusiastic than today?
I mean, I don't think you want to play the crowd game.
Donald Trump can draw big crowds.
There's no question about that.
He can draw a big crowd, but what does he say?
Who's he have?
Well, today, four more senior House Democrats called on Biden to abandon his re-election bid.
But Biden this morning wrote to all congressional Democrats to insist he is firmly in charge and has no plans to quit.
The bipartisan concern about his health is now reaching a critical mass.
A major New York Times poll found that 74% of voters believe he's too old to be an effective leader.
The same poll four years ago put that number at 36%.
The stammers and blunders that Trump supporters have highlighted for several years are now the subject of intense mainstream media scrutiny for probably the first time.
Biden supporters say he needs to face the press and public more often.
Every time he does that, he somehow makes it worse.
At one defiant rally this weekend, he promised to beat Donald Trump again in 2020.
Well, guess what?
They're trying to push me out on the race.
Well, let me say it as clear as I can.
I'm staying in the race.
I'll beat Donald Trump.
I will beat him again in 2020.
Yeah, you won't, though, because that was four years ago, Mr. President.
He also gave a round of apparently scripted radio interviews in which he appeared to identify as a black woman.
By the way, I'm proud to be, as I said, the first vice president, first black woman, served with a black president.
I'm proud to have the first black woman in the Supreme Court.
There's just so much that we can do because together we there's nothing in the United States of America.
Mr. President, with all due respect, to coin a phrase, you ain't black.
It would be funny if it wasn't so serious.
President Lounge says he needs to get more sleep and stop working by 8 p.m.
And that might well be true.
But on its own, it's enough to disqualify him as a suitable candidate for president, isn't it?
Many Democrats, including the man himself, point out that Barack Obama bounced back from a poll debate against Mitt Romney to win a decisive election victory.
But the difference here is that Biden didn't lose the debate because of policy disagreements.
He lost because of senility.
And the sad truth about senility is it can only get worse.
Well, to debate now, I'm joined by the former Republican Congressman Joe Walsh, host of the podcast White Flag with Joe Walsh.
Geraldo Rivera, broadcaster journalist and former Fox News host, Clay Travis, author and founder of Outkick, but Marianne Williamson, who has challenged Biden as an alternative Democratic candidate for president.
Well, welcome to this stellar panel.
Geraldo, great to have you back on Uncensored after quite a while.
Thank you.
Much missed in many ways, but not tonight.
So give me your take on this.
I mean, it seems to me we're into completely uncharted territory where no incumbent president that I'm aware of has ever quit the race so late in the day.
Do you think it's actually possible to happen?
I think it is barely possible, Piers, and only really practically possible if Biden himself enthusiastically embraces the notion of him being replaced by his vice president, Kamala Harris.
The tone of that letter that you just read, your viewers, however, indicates that Biden is going in the opposite direction.
Even as his own party crumbles under him in terms of support for his re-election bid, he is getting more and more determined, defiant even to stay in the race.
I think it is a very sad sight, spectacle to see.
You know, you're right.
Old age is one of the few things you don't get better from.
Biden has obviously deteriorated over the time he's been in office.
He's only eight months older than I am, Piers.
I feel myself how I have slowed down.
I didn't want to go to Gaza because I didn't think I could do the job because of my age and relative infirmity.
To think that President Biden now has this confidence, I don't know where it comes from, and certainly it's not shared, Piers, by his fellow Democrats.
But you know, Geraldo, just what you just revealed there, you're only eight months younger than Joe Biden, but you sound like his younger brother by about three decades.
And that's the painful reality here.
I have nothing against Joe Biden personally.
I've had one conversation with him in my life.
It was incredibly moving.
It was after the death of his son, Beau, who I knew well.
I've nothing against him.
I think he's done some good things.
He's been a great public servant.
But it is absolutely excruciating to now watch him in public, knowing that the media lens, which in America can be utterly relentless and ferocious, is now focused so intently on every gaffe, every mistake, every misstatement, and so on.
And Geraldo, the bottom line is if I put him up against you in a debate about the weather, you're going to win.
He has to be able to at least ad-Lib a birthday greeting, a five-minute speech, a kind of glad-handing routine.
He can't have teleprompter throughout his incumbency.
I mean, imagine what's he going to do the next time he gets to Europe and he's with the NATO leaders or he's face-to-face with Putin or she.
The Road If Biden Stays 00:08:36
And, you know, it's, it, it's, to me, I feel nothing but sadness.
It's time for some warriors to leave the center stage.
It's his time to leave.
It's time for him to listen.
He can't be so defiant and have his Dr. Jill Biden, his wife, make this team, we're in this forever.
No one will sway us.
No one will deter us.
We're going to the bitter end.
The problem is it's the bitter end for all of the Democratic Party.
It's the bitter end that gives the United States another Donald Trump term.
There's an arrogance to his humility.
I know that sounds like a contradiction, but there is this feeling that he knows better or that Dr. Jill knows better.
But just as you say, there is not a single unscripted moment and many scripted moments as well when he says 15,000 instead of 15 million and so forth.
You know, you cannot have confusion at the top in these troubled times.
Clay Travis, I mean, look, this is obviously, you can tell how good this is for Donald Trump by how quiet Donald Trump has been.
In fact, there's only been one kind of off-the-cuff remark.
We've got a clip of it.
He was on his golf cart and he did say something to the people around him.
Let's take a listen.
What did I do with the debate the other night?
Yeah.
It's a bad guy.
He just quit.
You know, he's quitting the race.
Is that right?
Yep, I got him out of the race.
And that means we have Kamala.
I think she's going to be better.
She's so bad.
She's so pathetic.
It's so amazing.
She's just so fucking bad.
So I just can't imagine.
But can you imagine that guy dealing with Putin and the president of China, who's a fierce person?
He's a fierce man, a very tough guy.
Now, that's pretty much all Trump has been seen to say.
And obviously, it was very Trumpian the way he said it.
Very hard, Clay, to deny anything that he said, though.
This race is over, Pierce.
And look, I know we've got a lot of different things that can happen.
But I should say if Joe Biden stays in, this race is over.
And many Democrats know this.
It's why they had started the pressure on Biden.
I think they believed they were having a great deal of success.
And then this morning here in the U.S., you have the double-barreled attack.
You have Biden releasing this letter, which basically says it's a direct attack on democracy to try to remove him, given that he got 87% of all the votes and far more delegates than he needed to be the nominee.
And then the second part is here, he called into Morning Joe, which is sort of the provda of the Democrat Party, and said, hey, if you want me out, you're going to have to challenge me at the convention.
So he's not stepping down.
I think to what Geraldo said, it's not only Biden's own cognition, I don't think is good enough for him to realize how bad he has become.
It's also Dr. Jill Biden, his wife, and according to Axios, the de facto advisor that he has now, Hunter Biden, who don't want to relinquish their grip on power.
They would rather Biden go up in flames potentially in this race, which I presume they still think he could win.
There's no way he can serve.
I'm not sure he can make it to January at the rate at which he is declining.
Certainly the idea that he's going to serve until January of 2029 is absolute insanity.
75% of the American public know it.
He can't win.
If he stays in, Trump is going to be the next president of the United States.
And Piers, it may not be that close because he's going to flip.
I think Trump will, some states that aren't even considered battlegrounds, whether it's Virginia, New Hampshire, Minnesota, New Mexico.
You saw the internal polling from Biden.
He's falling apart, not only in the places we knew were going to be tight, but even in places that he won by eight, nine, seven, 10 points in the most recent election in 2020.
Marianne Williamson, I mean, we've spoken before.
You were concerned about this very eventuality coming to fruition.
What do you feel now it's happened out there?
The world is debating this.
The Democrat Party is split in two, really, between those who think you should limp on and the majority, I would think, who think you should go.
A, where do you sit with this debate?
And B, what does it say about the party right now?
That is the point.
The American people have a right to expect that their government knows how to handle an emergency.
And the Democratic Party needs to demonstrate to the American people that we know how to handle an emergency.
The original crisis, of course, was the debate.
And many of us feel that that was exacerbated by his interview with George Stephanopoulos.
But at this point, the greater failure is crisis management.
The fact that the Democratic Party appears to be kind of dithering about this, having meetings.
Some people say, well, we should support the president.
This is not support of the president at this point.
This is protection of the president.
And it's difficult for me to believe that there are not particular Democratic leaders who could go en masse to the White House and say very clearly to the Biden family, this must end.
No one human being should be holding back the mission that the Democratic Party has right now.
You can't say we're willing to take on the existential crisis that Donald Trump poses to the party, but not take on a crisis like this.
And so at this point, it's up to the party to step up to the plate and realize that just like when we were all appalled when Donald Trump said, I'm the only one who can fix it, we should be equally appalled at the arrogance of the president.
And I say this with compassion, but it is arrogant to say I'm the only one who can beat him when the polls make it very clear that almost anyone else could beat him.
I agree with those who have argued that if the president remains the candidate, we will lose.
Right.
Joe Walsh, you, I think, are in the camp now of thinking that Kamala Harris should be the Democrat nominee.
And correct me if that's not the case, but she is definitely more electable right now, according to the polls than Joe Biden.
But as Trump said in his rather coarse way in that off-the-cuff clip, I just can't see her ever beating Donald Trump.
Can you?
Oh, sure, Pierce.
By the way, let me just first say how unbelievably great Geraldo looks and sounds at his age.
My God, it just freaking blows me away that you are eight months younger than Biden.
It is unbelievable.
He's Benjamin Button.
I'm sitting here.
Oh, my God.
Benjamin Button.
That's crazy.
Look, Pierce, Pierce, here's what we know.
There are more people in America who oppose Donald Trump than support him.
People like me.
And all I care about is beating Donald Trump.
It's pretty clear right now.
I won't go as far as Clay that it's over if it's Biden.
But if it is Biden, if it stays Biden, Democrats are going to have a real, real tough road.
I think, look, it's not the Biden reelection campaign.
It's the Biden-Harris re-election campaign.
I think they'd have to give it to Kamala Harris.
I think they'd be smart, Pierce, to have some sort of competition, some sort of mini primary, as they're talking about, make her earn it.
But then I think you'd see tons of enthusiasm if it were anybody besides Biden.
So I think it would be a competitive race then.
What are you seeing in Kamala Harris that I'm not?
Because from where I look, she seems an incredibly weak option.
I'm not going to lie.
I don't know, Pierce.
Yeah, she hasn't done real well.
I think she gets a bad rap sometimes, but I think she's got to prove herself.
But again, to me, this sounds weird.
Biden has proven that he's too old.
I don't think it really matters who the other nominee would be because so many people like me, Pierce, I'm not a Democrat.
If the nominee were Kamala, I'm voting for Kamala.
If the nominee were Gavin Newsome, I can't stand him on policy.
I'm all in with Gavin Newsome.
So it almost doesn't matter.
Republicans Forget January 6th 00:03:10
It will be a vote against Donald Trump.
But I think you'll see young people especially get excited about somebody besides Biden.
Geraldo, I mean, it's been an incredible year.
If you go back, say, 15, 16 months, Donald Trump was dead and buried politically.
Ron DeSantis was the new anointed star of the Republican Party, way ahead in the polls.
Trump looked to be over.
And now he's got what may end up being an unassailable lead surging back to the White House, despite the fact he's facing 93 criminal charges in four different cases, one of which has been settled with a criminal conviction, despite the attempts to try and get him thrown off balance and so on.
Has the Democrat motivated assault on Trump been so overblown that it's massively backfired, do you think?
I absolutely agree with that assessment, Piers.
It has been appalling to me to watch lawfare, to watch the Democrats use the American judicial system to handicap, to hobble, to punish, to disenfranchise the former president Donald Trump.
It is terrible.
The immunity case, they were certain that they had him because immunity was a non-starter, immunity from prosecution.
That's the way Donald Trump saw the Constitution of the United States.
Went to the Supreme Court.
Admittedly, the court is a conservative court.
It is the Donald Trump court now.
But they said, as I believe, that the United States is very clear.
If there is an errant president, you impeach him.
You don't charge him in criminal court the way New York County did.
Now, what's going to happen the next, you know, assume that Trump is president.
Is he going to use county prosecutors to go after Joe Biden or other Democrats?
It is absolutely ridiculous.
Donald Trump, now to your point about the Republican Party.
When I left Donald Trump, who I supported through his presidency, which I think was underrated, when I left him was when he left the constitutional process.
The United States has a constitutional process, the peaceful succession.
That has been the hallmark of the American Republic, the peaceful continuance of a democratically elected government.
What this is happening now, what is happening now, or what happened to Donald Trump then, was that he did something that was terrible.
The Republicans left him as I left him, but then they trickled back to him because they saw him as the strongest candidate.
And now it's like all is forgiven.
I haven't forgotten.
I'm not supporting Donald Trump as a result.
But the Republican Party has a selective amnesia, mass amnesia.
They're forgetting what happened on January 6th.
And I deplore that.
I think that wake up, remember that if you're going to vote for Trump, vote for him knowing that he defied the constitutional process and stabbed the Constitution in the back.
A Divine Sign for Democrats 00:12:13
You know, I believe that firmly.
But he is now the favorite, and he's the likely president.
I think it's as simple as the Republicans have realized Trump may win again, and it's all about power.
I mean, Marianne Williamson, the question of who takes over if Biden does get persuaded to stand aside, that's pretty much it.
I mean, he said it at the weekend, but let's play the clip actually.
It's of him talking about only the Lord Almighty being able to convince him to end his bid.
Let's take a look.
Look, I mean, if the Lord Almighty came down and said, Joe, get out of the race, I'll get out of the race, and the Lord Almighty's not coming down.
Look, I have a cognitive test every single day.
Every day I have that test.
Everything I do, you know, not only am I campaigning, but I'm running the world.
I mean, he seems to be short of literally a thunderbolt landing on his head from above.
He seems to be determined to stick this out.
But if he was persuaded to step aside, is Kamala Harris the only real option, given the fact that all the fundraising that Biden's had would move to her and can't go to anybody else?
Or would you, for example, be part of the mix of people that would want to test that theory?
I'm already in the race.
I'm already there.
And I assume that if the president steps aside, when he steps aside, many will step in.
Certainly, I would assume Kamala will step in and Gavin Newsom will step in.
Perhaps Dean Phillips will step in and perhaps others.
As far as the God Almighty speaking to you, God Almighty speaks to us often through other people.
And I think enough other people are speaking to the president right now that he should see this as some sort of a divine sign.
In terms of what happens next, Joe, when you said something like who they are going to put in, this is a democracy.
It's extremely important that we not see this as a baton that some elite just gets to hand to the next person.
We must have a mini primary.
We must have an open convention.
We must open this to the will of the people.
That's what should happen here.
And the process should begin quickly.
Clay Travis, are you concerned at all that if Biden is out of the running in the next week or so, they have to move pretty quickly.
Somebody new, younger, more dynamic, a Gavin Newsome type, for example, notwithstanding the issues he would have defending his record in California that many think has gone to woke Helena Hancock, but he's a good talker.
And I watched him, I've said this a few times.
I watched him on Fox News with Sean Hannity for an hour.
I thought he held himself extremely well.
He's a good debater, and he looks the part of a younger, dynamic guy.
Could that be a real threat to Republicans if that does happen?
In other words, is it a case of be careful what you wish for here?
Yeah, look, if you're asking me straight up, who do I want to be the Democrat nominee that gives Donald Trump the best possible chance to win?
I think it's Joe Biden because I don't think Joe Biden has any chance to win.
Because now the question, every time he goes out and speaks in front of any crowd, every time he walks across the grass at the White House and tries to get onto an airplane or comes to our helicopter, comes down off Air Force One, the short stairs in his new tennis shoes because he doesn't walk very well.
One misstep, one wobble, one errant word, which happens all the time, and it reinforces that debate performance of June 27th.
So to me, I have been saying for some time, I think I said it on your show, Pierce, I don't understand how the Democrats stick with Joe Biden.
It's political malpractice now.
So I hope they do because I would like for Trump to win.
I think it's important for the Democrats to be out of power in the White House based on how I think the last three and a half years have gone.
To me, when I look at the board, I think you have to look at the available electoral votes.
This race is going to be won in Pennsylvania, Wisconsin, and Michigan.
That's where it's going to come down to.
And Democrats are probably going to have to win all three.
What I have been saying for some time is Gretchen Whitmer in Michigan, Josh Shapiro in Pennsylvania, both Democrat governors, very popular there.
Could they deliver those states?
If they could, a ticket of that duo combined with a full-on, you know, $200, $300, $500 million campaign in Wisconsin could be essentially the only pathway to Democrats winning.
Because I think they're going to lose Georgia.
I think they're going to lose Arizona.
I think they're going to lose Nevada.
I think they have real issues there.
No chance in North Carolina.
Again, Biden has no chance in my opinion.
But Gretchen Whitmer, Josh Shapiro, maybe Kamala Harris paired with one of those could give a little bit more enthusiasm and I think would do better than Joe Biden is going to do.
But you know, I mean, Joe Walsh, the problem for Kamala Harris is, if you look at the polling purely on the black vote, there's been a quite spectacular, and if I'm a Democrat, alarming swing away from the Democrats towards Trump amongst black African-American voters.
I mean, it's been sizable and it's increasing.
And that's with the first ever black vice president, the first ever black woman vice president.
So every indicator is that the electorate, far from gravitating to this black woman being vice president, have actually gone the other way.
And when I interviewed Charlemagne the God, who has a lot of influence in the African-American community, he said that she's torched that whole relationship, that they feel she's done nothing for black Americans.
So if you put her up, I could see that as being a massive problem.
Pierce, maybe, but we don't know that.
And again, we talk about how black support has been leaving the Democratic Party.
That hasn't borne out yet.
Look, Ria, let's be real here for a second.
It has in the polls.
And I know.
It has in the polls.
It has in the polls, but not in the election results yet.
In the polls, sure.
But let's be real of something.
We're beating up Joe Biden right now, as we should.
But these are both two historically unpopular candidates, Biden and Trump.
Let's remember that.
Most Americans don't like either of these two.
Most Americans can't stand either of these two.
Most Americans are sick of both political parties.
Most Americans are fed up with our political system.
Biden steps down.
And by the way, I agree with Marianne.
Biden has to do it.
And then there should be some competitive primary process.
But Pierce, if he does that and you inject a new candidate into the mix, I'm telling you, we're underestimating the potential enthusiasm for anyone different, anybody besides Biden.
I kind of agree with that.
Clay, I know you have to leave us.
So just very quickly before you go, because the other three will stay for a little bit.
I just want to ask, I mean, take me forward five months.
Who do you actually feel this election in the end will be conducted between?
Pierce, I said on your show some time ago that the ultimate Hail Mary candidate was Michelle Obama.
This is taking place in Chicago.
She is a unity candidate.
She brings together everyone.
She gets past the Kamala Harris black female aspect of this, which would be racist and sexist to overlook the number two who happens to be a black woman and go with somebody else.
I think that she's the ultimate savior candidate.
But Pierce, this morning, Joe Biden has gone to war and basically said, if you try to remove me, I am going down kicking and screaming.
He's daring the Nancy Pelosis, the Chuck Schumers of the world, these big governors to come out and actually call him on the spot.
And I don't know that they have the intestinal fortitude to be willing to do it.
So I can't believe I'm saying this, but I actually think they're going to stick with Biden.
And I think he's going to get, relatively speaking, an historic ass kicking come November 5th.
That's my prediction right now.
Clay Travis, founder of Outkit, great to have you back on our sense.
We'll let you go.
I know you've got a busy day ahead of you.
So thank you very much for joining us.
Marianne, let me come to you.
Thank you.
Michelle Obama, I mean, I have thought for a while that if she could be persuaded to enter the race for all the reasons Clay just said at Chicago for the convention, you could imagine her instantly becoming a massively popular unity candidate.
And of course, you get two for one.
You get Barack Obama back, who was a two-term president, very popular, a lot of Americans.
Is it a mad idea?
Have you spoken to Michelle?
Do you think she could ever be persuaded?
No, I have no inside scoop on that.
There has been a conversation about Michelle Obama, and I think we all agree about her massive popularity.
The word on the street has been that she has expressed zero interest in doing this.
And until we hear anything otherwise, we can't just hold our breath and hope that that happens, those who feel that that would be the best thing.
We have to move forward.
I think that Clay's comments about Pennsylvania and Wisconsin and Michigan were very astute.
The issue, though, is I think we also need to remember while we are discussing so much the who, I think we need to discuss the what.
We will win with our principles.
We will win.
It won't be specifically about who.
It will be about whether or not the Democratic Party returns to its unequivocal advocacy for the working people of the United States.
We need universal health care, tuition-free college and tech school, guaranteed living wage, a repudiation of this forever war machine, a conversation about dismantling the drug war, a real answer to the climate crisis.
That's what's ultimately going to win.
We're going to win when we say to the American people, over the next four years, we are going to do the following in order to improve your material conditions.
We have 39% of the American people who say that they are skipping meals in order to pay their rent.
We have millions of people who are selling their blood plasma.
We have 70% of Americans who say that they live with chronic economic anxiety.
We have a majority of Americans who are living paycheck to paycheck.
That's how we're going to win, by listening and speaking to the American people and making it less about the horse race, less about this insider club, and more about speaking to the needs of the American people.
That's how we are going to defeat Donald Trump, no matter who the candidate is.
You know, Geraldo, it's interesting.
In the UK, we just had our election here, and the Conservative Party has been pretty well wiped out.
I mean, they'll limp on and regroup.
But the Labour Party here with a candidate in Sakir Starmer, who many view to be very boring, but who actually espoused a lot of the things that Marianne has just been talking about, which clearly resonated with people, he's just won a crushing majority.
And we see in France where people assumed that Marine Le Pen and the far right were going to be coming in in big numbers and taking control.
Actually, that didn't happen.
And in fact, you've got a far left leading the race there.
So a lot of unpredictability around in global politics here.
Could Michelle Obama, if she could be persuaded, I do think it's a very long shot, but if it was literally, as the Democrats would see it, a chance to save the party and the country from the horrors of Trump, could she beat Trump, do you think?
First of all, Piers, you referenced the UK politics.
I think what we need is Joe Biden to have a King Edward VIII abdication moment.
Kamala's Ballywick Advantage 00:09:27
He's got to decide that he's not capable of fulfilling four long years in the Oval Office again.
He's stepped aside, embraces Kamala during his term, embraces Kamala, maybe even steps down under the 25th Amendment, anoints her as president of the United States.
She selects a vice president, and they run together in November against Donald Trump and whomsoever he selects.
Michelle Obama, his almost legendary proportions.
It's like I remember hearing Oprah's name constantly every election cycle.
What about Oprah, the most popular woman in America?
Michelle Obama, one of the most popular women on earth.
What about them?
I have not heard one single sentence out of her mouth to affirm in any way or encourage in any way that scenario.
I think the Obamas are very happy with their presidential library and their eminent position in American society.
And I think that President Obama is wise enough to leave that one, to leave that one alone, as is the former first lady.
But I think it is entirely feasible that Kamala Harris, selecting someone like Gavin Newsom or Gretchen Whitmer or Josh Shapiro, that she could, we have only seen her giggling and being silly and avoiding, you know, after she was given the border as part of her portfolio, ignoring or avoiding going down to the southern border of the United States.
You know, she has to step up.
She has to be a much more mature person.
Where is the Kamala Harris who was Attorney General?
Where is the Kamala Harris who was senator from the great state of California?
Where has she been?
Why with the giggling and the unseriousness?
I think that in the last couple of weeks, she's done better.
And I think as a result, the polling, as I have seen it, is that she, Kamala Harris, is the most likely popular candidate that the Democrats could offer of the realistic scenario.
And the advantage she has, Joe Walsh, is that all the fundraising, the hundreds of millions that have gone to Joe Biden from donors, that could automatically transfer to his vice president.
It doesn't automatically transfer to any other candidates.
So there is an advantage financially in doing that.
But here's the problem with Kamala Harris.
I want to play a clip.
This is Donald Trump's team released this ad about Kamala Harris.
Let's take a look.
Talking about the significance of the passage of time, right?
The significance of the passage of time.
So when you think about it, there is great significance to the passage of time in terms of what we need to do to lay these wires, what we need to do to create these jobs.
And there is such great significance to the passage of time.
Space is exciting.
I can imagine what can be and be unburdened by what has been, you know?
Now, this is the trouble, right?
I mean, people look at that, and that's the Kamala Harris that's been portrayed to them.
And the problem is, when you say where's she been, as Heraldo rightly says, she's been vice president for over three years, and the impact she's made has been utterly negligible to the extent, as I said, that a lot of African Americans have now ditched the Democrats according to the polls and have moved to Trump, who many Democrats believe is the worst racist to ever occupy the White House.
So I just, I'm not buying the Kamala Harris thing.
I'm surprised you're so in the tank for her because I just can't see her beating Trump.
Two things, Pierce.
She's the vice president, which may be the crappiest job in America, right?
All vice presidents take this hit.
I'm not in the tank for her.
I don't, Pierce, I don't think the Democrats can get around her.
I just don't think it's realistically, as Geraldo said, to think that the Democrats can pick anybody but the black female vice president.
They're going to have to live with that.
But, Pierce, every time Donald Trump speaks in public, he says 19 crazy, idiotic, nonsensical things.
That's not going to work.
Look, if this election is a referendum on Donald Trump, a pathological liar, an adjudicated rapist, a guy who tried to overthrow a freaking election, if this election is a referendum on Trump, I don't give a damn who wages it, Trump loses.
If it's about Biden's age, Biden loses.
I think Kamala Harris, right, get the strings off of her.
I think Kamala Harris could prosecute that case against Trump.
I think a lot of young Democrats could.
Marianne Williamson, I mean, look, there's obviously a lot to go at with Trump, but of course, a lot of it is kind of factored in to people's thinking.
People have got used to Trump.
And I would say that's quite a worrying development for Democrats is that they kind of, you know, they've all worked out what Trump's like.
They know he shoots on the hip.
He says coarse things, you know, but they also, probably against their better judgment, find him pretty entertaining.
The legacy on his first term slightly improving as we forget the more incendiary comments and focus purely on the fact America didn't start any new wars, you know, achieve some peace in the Middle East, you know, had a kind of odd relationship between Trump and leaders like Putin and Kim Jong-un and others, but it seemed to be effective in stopping them doing bad stuff.
That actually people think, you know what, I know he's all these things, but actually on balance, yeah, he's okay.
I don't find him a threat they may have done before.
Well, on one hand, I would take issue with a couple of things that you just said, but I think a problem we have had and will continue to have if we don't change course is making it all about Donald Trump.
The electoral risk for Democrats in this election is not just Donald Trump.
People who like Donald Trump like Donald Trump.
They're going to vote for Donald Trump.
There's nothing new that you can say.
Our biggest danger at this point is people staying home, people voting for Bobby Kennedy, people voting for Joel Stein.
So this issue of be afraid of Donald Trump is not going to win it.
What we are going to, how we're going to defeat him, is through inspiration and motivation and hope.
By telling people, we will give you Medicare for all.
We will use the powers of government to improve your life with a guaranteed living wage, with the Department of Peace, dismantling the drug war.
We have to say to people, this is the vision of where we're going to go over the next four years.
Hope and inspiration and possibility is how we're going to defeat Donald Trump, not just by telling people to fear Donald Trump.
Vision is more powerful than fear.
Most people know how they feel about Donald Trump.
What we need to do is make more people excited about voting for us.
Geraldo, what do you think of that?
You know, I'm not an inspirational kind of speaker.
I don't think about politics in the kind of idealistic, philosophical way.
I think about it hard knocks, bare knuckles.
I think what will defeat Donald Trump, who was very underrated as president, I know because I was his friend during that term, what's going to defeat him is abortion, is the malignant growth of the executive branch of government here in the United States.
What's going to defeat him is the notion in suburban women in America that the Republicans are coming for your personal freedoms.
That's what will defeat him.
What will defeat him is hardcore retail politics.
What will defeat him is the notion that he doesn't represent a majority of America.
He represents a majority of people who are of the sort that want to impose upon you their morality or their religion or their philosophy.
So I think that he can be beaten.
The midterm elections here in 2022 show the weakness in the Republican position.
And I believe that that's the way you do it.
And it can be done.
And I think Kamala Harris could do it because it's in her bally wick.
She understands the issue.
She speaks to the issue.
She's familiar.
She's comfortable.
She has believed on the issue of personal freedom and abortion reproductive rights in the United States.
I think that, and with the, you know, you put Gavin Newsom nectar, Gavin Newsom will be against someone like Senator JD Vance of my home state, my new state of Ohio.
I think that Gavin Newsom will do well in that regard if he chooses to take the chance and not, you know, be dainty about it and wait four years for the next time.
I think you got to be dirty now.
You got to be elbows out now.
You got to be retail politics now.
You know, that's why the president's insistence, his intransigence, his reluctance to consider leaving office or yielding at least next term to someone else, someone better equipped.
Beyond Idealism and Danger 00:02:59
I think that it's not about idealism.
It's about what kind of country do you want.
Although, Piers, I must say, I absolutely agree with you about foreign policy and him being underrated and dealing with Putin and Xi and preventing the war in Ukraine.
I want to end by asking you all the same question.
I want to ask you all the same question.
I want to ask you all: who is the next president of the United States?
Let me start with you.
Let me start with you, Geraldo.
I think the next president of the United States, and I don't say this with any joy in my heart whatsoever, is Donald Trump.
Marianne?
I hope that it's me.
It should be the person that the people choose.
And if I may say so, I agree with everything that you were saying, Geraldo, about the issue of the overreach of government, the immunity issue, all of that, that we should be very concerned about Project 2025.
But we should not consider it just idealism when you're talking about health care for people who don't have any.
It's not just idealism to talk about the fact that so many Americans have to work two and three jobs just to put food on the table.
And Democrats cannot afford to make it sound like that level of economic anxiety that the majority of people live with is not what the real issue is.
It's also the real issue.
And it's absolutely imperative that we address that in order to win.
Okay, but just to be clear, who do you actually think will be president next?
Because it's unlikely to be you.
You know what?
You don't know.
None of us know.
Look what just happened in France.
Anything can happen.
So I don't accept that, actually.
Yes, anything is unlikely, but a lot of unlikely things have happened in American politics.
And the best thing that could happen in America today is for some very unlikely victories that might not look too probable right now, but might just be coming down the road.
I like the positivity.
And Joe Walsh, finally to you, who is the next president of the United States?
Pierce, I'll be quick.
I've got a one-word answer, but I want to remind everybody: look, there are more undecided voters in America than people have always thought.
And they've always known Trump is a traitorous, dangerous asshole.
But Joe Biden, is he too old?
Well, Joe Biden's answer that he is too old, but Trump remains the traitor and dangerous figure he is to democracy.
I think the next president is Kamala Harris.
Okay.
I believe the next president, and this is not me saying I want it, just what I think will happen.
You're talking to the man who predicted it in 2016 when many didn't.
In fact, most people didn't.
I think the next president is going to be Donald Trump.
And I think the Democrats will only have them blame.
Well, if you make it wrong, the Democrats will only have themselves to blame.
I think the whole way they've handled this last year has been a catastrophically bad example of self-harm by political party.
But we shall see.
As we've seen around Europe now, things can happen.
Events can happen.
Who knows?
What a great panel.
Thank you all very much.
Thanks, Pierce.
Thank you.
Thank you, everybody.
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