Piers Morgan Uncensored features Sasha Walpole, the woman behind Prince Harry's 2023 memoir revelation of their 1998 encounter at Wiltshire's Vine Tree pub. While Walpole describes a fleeting, drunken moment and expresses relief to return to her private life, hosts debate Harry's hypocrisy for selling intimate details while demanding privacy from the monarchy. Commentators argue his presence at the May 6th coronation would overshadow the event due to recent poll damage, suggesting a compromise where he stays away but Walpole is invited to share her story, highlighting the rift between royal discretion and modern media exposure. [Automatically generated summary]
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Sasha Tells Her Story00:03:54
Tonight on Piers Morgan Uncensored, a global TV exclusive.
She's the woman who took Prince Harry's virginity behind a countryside pub.
Sasha Walpole kept Harry's secret for 21 years and always intended to.
But he told his truth about it in his memoir.
So tonight, Sasha tells me hers.
From London, this is Piers Morgan Uncensored.
Well, good evening from London.
Welcome to Piers Morgan Uncensored.
Prince Harry has turned his back on a family and a nation that adored him.
He was a lovable rogue whose childhood heartbreak united the country in goodwill.
We're all very proud of him as he served in the British Army.
We cheered his wedding, celebrated the glamorous biracial future of the new monarchy.
He had it all, Harry, but he's burned most of it to the ground, charged by bitterness and resentment.
He's waged war on his family by selling the lurid story of his private life to a media industry he says he hates for invading his private life.
And that's at the heart of why I think the public here have grown a bit tired of Harry.
They view him as a hypocrite.
He spews his truth to the highest bidders whilst repeatedly demanding privacy.
He rails against his family for sharing details of their conversations while exposing family secrets and family feuds in books and interviews for millions of dollars.
He's reinvented himself as a be-kind feminist and mental health campaigner while showing blatant disregard for anyone other than himself.
Nothing better sums it up than his decision to tell the story of losing his virginity in his memoir spare.
I suspected he was referring to my recent loss of virginity.
In glorious episode with an older woman.
She liked horses quite a lot and treated me not unlike a young stallion.
Quick ride, after which she'd smacked my rump and sent me off to graze.
Among the many things about it that were wrong, it happened in a grassy field behind a busy pub.
Well that story triggered an inevitable avalanche of speculation.
Actress Liz Hurley had to deny reports it was her, as did the chief executive of Cotswold Airport, Susannah Harvey, and his former lover Catherine Ominé and polo coach Emma Tomlinson.
Among others, just last weekend, the actor Rupert Everett said he knew who it was and he thought it had happened at a ski chalet.
Well Harry knew that he'd ignited fevered conjecture but still chose to unpin that grenade and walk away and that unfair speculation about innocent people is why Sasha Walpole has now felt obliged to tell her story.
She kept Harry's secret for 21 years but he left her with no choice for all his bleating about privacy.
Harry simply didn't bother to worry about hers.
He didn't think about how writing in florid detail about losing his virginity might upset Sasha, her children, her husband, her parents, her friends.
Sasha, on the other hand, has treated Harry with unwavering respect.
She'd have taken her story to the grave if he'd allowed her to.
She could have sold her story at any time in the last two decades as he's sold his.
But she chose not to.
She behaved with decency, discretion and duty, which ironically are the very qualities we expect of our royals.
The late Queen did that so masterfully.
King Charles does it too.
So do Prince William, Princess Kate.
Harry is the rogue royal, but not quite so lovable anymore.
We now know that the older woman Sasha is actually younger than his wife Meghan Markle.
She speaks affectionately about Harry even now and recalls humble tales of youthful frolics at rural pubs that will be familiar to millions of British people.
She drives three-ton diggers, works on guardian patios and leads an honest life with her family in Wiltshire.
One that's pretty private actually and certainly whirls away from a luxury Californian pedestal from which the privacy preaching prince shoots his poisoned darts back at his family and brim.
But it's actually people like Sasha Walpole who represent the very best of British values.
Sadly, I'm not so sure that can be said about Harry anymore.
Well, Sasha Walpole joins me now.
The Funny Night Revealed00:11:01
Hi.
A week ago, I'd never heard of you.
No, I never heard of it.
Nor anybody else apart from your family and friends, and now you're like this globally known person, and actually, through no fault of your own or desire to be publicly known at all.
No, I know it's been a bit of a whirlwind week, and hopefully, it's a means to an end, and I can get back to normality, go back to work, drive my digger, hide back under my rock.
How do you feel about the way this has all exploded in your life?
Very surreal, still doesn't seem real.
I don't know, kind of shocked, really.
I didn't think that it would hit the headlines like it did.
I mean, there's a lot of worse stuff going on in the world right now that probably needs more of a focus.
Obviously, we had the earthquake and a few other things going on, the war in Ukraine.
But yeah, I never thought it would happen like it has.
I mean, it's been a fascinating thing to watch unfurl because I used to run national newspapers, so I knew exactly what would happen.
The moment Harry put in this book the details of how he lost his virginity to an older woman in a field behind the back of a pub, I just thought, well, I know what's happening now.
Every single news desk in Fleet Street and every TV network, they're all sending people off to try and find this poor woman who has probably never said a word about this and now is going to be on the front page of papers from here to America to China to Tim Buktu.
Yeah, it is.
I mean, I had a bit of a running with the paparazzi back in 2001, so I kind of knew how it can turn out.
And at first, I was a bit like, no, just hide, it'll be fine, it'll go away like I have done, you know, in the past.
And then suddenly, you realize that it's getting closer, your world's getting smaller, a lot more people are talking about it.
You know, friends from back home are getting questioned, accused, and I was just like, do you know what?
The way to stop it is just come forward and say it's me.
And then hopefully, no sooner it's come out, it'll go and I can carry on with my little life.
When was the first moment that you knew that you were in this book?
When my friend sent me a screenshot of a comment via WhatsApp, and I was just stuck with sofa watching telly, and yeah, I kind of didn't quite know what to do about it.
Were you shocked?
Were you scared about what may happen to you?
Disbelief.
Disbelief he went into so much detail because then it's obvious who it was.
So for me, that was like a huge thing because then suddenly I was like, oh no, everyone's going to know.
And then, yeah, next day, all the messages started to be.
I'm trying to imagine what it must be like.
When we played the clip of Harry, I don't know if we can play it again, but we played the clip of Harry talking about this.
I just want to sort of look at you as you listen to this because I'm trying to imagine what it must be like to have been you when he came out with this, not just in written word, but also in spoken word.
This is a guy who's sixth in line or fifth in line to the throne of this country talking about losing his virginity to you.
Sasha Walpole, take a listen.
I suspected he was referring to my recent loss of virginity.
In glorious episode with an older woman.
She liked horses quite a lot and treated me not unlike a young stallion.
Quick ride, after which she'd smoked my rump and sent me off to graze.
Among the many things about it that were wrong, it happened in a grassy field behind a busy pub.
What did you feel when you heard this?
I don't really know.
I can see the humour side of the horse because obviously...
You were a groom at the time, I wasn't sure.
Yeah, I was a groom.
Well, not at the time, but I was a groom.
I'd left Highgrove by the time this had happened.
But yeah, I just, I don't know, I could see the funny side to it.
You know, we were two friends.
And for me, I still see him as Harry.
I still see him as a friend that I used to hang out with down the pub, you know, go and watch the polo with.
And yeah, it was just.
We're seeing pictures of you, you both there with some other friends clowning around and stuff.
I mean, I suppose that my response to it when I first heard about this was I thought it was breathtaking.
I've got to be honest, breathtakingly hypocritical of someone who goes on and on about privacy to then reveal such a private thing, but not just about himself, but to inevitably spark the trail of interest that would lead to your door without even having the good grace to let you know he was doing it.
Yeah.
I mean, if you want to live a private life and you want to get out of the limelight and leave the royal family or whatever to live your life as you want to live it, to then sell a book and go on Netflix is kind of going against what you're saying you want.
But yeah, I just have to say.
Nobody, he didn't call you or nobody contacted you to say you're in the book.
No.
The first unit was a friend Whatsapping you to say, well, this is you.
Yeah.
Were you like, oh my God.
I was, yeah, well, I think I probably used a little bit stronger language.
I almost fell off my sofa.
But yeah, it was just, you know, and then obviously all the jokes come in about, oh, young stallion and the older lady.
I mean, some of the language he used there, I thought was actually quite disrespectful.
It was kind of like it was all wrong.
You're an older woman treating him like a stallion.
It was all.
Yeah, I think it's just the way that it's written.
You know, the thing wrong about it, we were two friends.
It should never have happened.
We crossed the line.
It was never intentional.
There was nothing before, nothing after.
I mean, inglorious.
It's not really that glorious sleeping with someone in a field behind a pub when you're watching.
I don't know.
Oh, yeah.
In your moments?
Yeah, sometimes.
Would you agree it was inglorious then?
You know, there is nothing glorious about being drunk and then copping off with one of your mates in the field.
I don't know, actually, Sasha.
I did that loads of times when I was young.
Always felt pretty glorious in the moment.
It was the next morning that's the problem.
Yeah, I think that's probably what we all found.
Let's go back.
I want to go back to where it all started because it's kind of fascinating that you were, you've been a groom at Highgrove, like you said, but you frequented this local pub.
So there were two pubs in the area.
So tell me about the two pubs.
Yeah, I mean, we used to drink at the Rattle Bone quite a lot, which is obviously mentioned quite a lot.
And then we used to go to the Vine Tree, and there was another one in Cat and Carl.
The Vine Tree was the crime scene.
Yep, that's where the crime took place.
Yep.
But you would go in these pubs and it was perfectly normal that Harry and William, in fact, who was in the pub actually on the night in question, but they would both come down as young princes and they'd hang out with you guys.
Yeah, I mean, I don't even think, like I said before, it was just a group of friends.
So it didn't matter if you're a prince, a rider, a groom, a polo player.
We were just like, we had horses in common and we just hung out.
Any other royals going on?
Not really.
I think Sarah may have popped in once or twice, but it was just mainly William and Harry.
That was their local.
No sign of Uncle Andrew?
No sign of Uncle Andrew.
Just as well, probably.
So the atmosphere was very relaxed.
Even though they were royals and you were the royal groom or had been and the others were just local, it didn't really matter what class you were from.
No part of society.
They didn't care.
No one cared.
No, at the end of the day, you can't be a polo player without a groom.
Because if you haven't got someone doing your horses, you can't play polo.
And, you know, I generally look back on my years of teenage and young adulthood of fond memories.
I really do.
Yeah, good fun, a laugh.
You know, luckily it was before any social media and camera phones.
Well, now it wouldn't happen probably because there'd be too many phones out.
The royals wouldn't, I mean, sad for them, but you know, you wouldn't better go to a local pub like that probably.
No, and it is, you know, you think he probably did have one of the better times growing up because he isn't growing up with social media.
He isn't growing up with a camera phone in his face.
What was he like then?
As I said, he was 16.
So what was he like?
He was definitely, you know, fun, sparky.
He was just one of the boys.
He was, you know, he was a lad.
He was good fun to be around.
Yeah, I mean, he was 16, which just had been a few years after, obviously, his mother died in this terrible tragedy.
Had you known him in the aftermath of that?
No, I didn't.
I didn't get to know him sort of until a bit later on from that.
And to be fair, he never ever sort of spoke about it.
He, you know, he just, we just kept it light-hearted.
We were just mates.
We just talked about polo, horses, going to the pub.
And you'd become sort of quite good friends.
He would ring up your home.
Yeah.
And he'd text you and stuff.
Yeah, yeah, generally.
Sometimes you ring the landline and your mum would answer the phone.
What does he call himself?
Just Harry.
Yeah.
Yeah, Harry.
And yeah.
And then we'd have a chat and then probably arranged to meet up somewhere, go and watch the polo, see what everyone else was doing, see what the plan was.
You make it sound perfectly normal.
How did your mum feel that Prince Harry was ringing a daughter?
I don't know.
I think because they knew that we all hung out in a group and it wasn't really a big thing back home.
Yeah, I think the first time we did it, she was a bit like, oh, is that Harry Harry?
And I was like, yeah, she's like, oh, how funny.
And that was about it, really.
I mean.
Did you call him H like his wife does now?
No, only in text messages.
Maybe he used to sign off as H, but I just thought that's because you couldn't be bothered to write Harry.
And from what I could gather, a lot of drinking went on at this pub.
Yeah, I mean...
Well, on the night in question, I read that you'd had 10 shots, is that right?
We did between us.
It was a bit of a funny night.
It was the night before my birthday, so I was actually 18.
But yeah, and I think...
And you'd had a difficult problem because you'd broken up with this guy and he then rocks up in the pub with his new girlfriend.
Yeah, well, he rocked up and then she rocked up after.
And I think when she rocked up, he could sense that I was a bit, oh, that's pretty crap.
So he then was like, come on, let's, you know, lighten the mood, have a laugh, you know.
Yeah, and like I say, it just.
What were the shots?
I think it was a mixture, if I'm honest.
I don't think it was.
One was a creamy one, so I assume it was Bailey's.
Bailey's shots.
Yeah.
Oh, my God.
Bailey's shot.
Bailey's whiskey, Sambuka.
Really?
All going down.
Yeah.
Yeah.
So he was a shoulder to cry on.
He was.
I think, I mean, I'm not one for attention, so I just kind of get on with things.
But yeah, I just think that he sensed that, you know, I'd not be okay with that and sort of tried just to lighten the mood and have a laugh.
It's not something he would do on a regular basis.
I think he generally was just trying to make me feel.
And he had a birthday card for you, which he'd handwritten.
Yeah.
We've got it here, I think.
And it said, Dear Sash, have a very happy birthday and don't get too pissed.
Luckily, I'll be there to keep an eye on you.
Loads of love.
Baz.
Yeah.
Why did he call himself Baz?
I have no idea.
But he always used to sign himself off in different ways, H-Baz.
P.S., thanks for everything.
What do you think he meant by that?
Just as friends, really.
I don't think there was anything specific behind it.
We just talking, chatting, but nothing about anything in particular.
I think it was just a nice comment to put in a card.
It was also a toy that he gave you.
It was, yeah.
What was it?
Miss Piggy.
Why?
I think he won it at the Thorpe Park that day and just thought it'd be quite nice to give it to me.
So he won a prize and then just decided to re-gift it.
Yeah, very much.
A Birthday Card From Baz00:06:34
Yeah.
But that's the relationship it was.
There was nothing.
I wouldn't even expect a card or a Teddy.
It was just come and celebrate and have a laugh.
At what moment on that night did things take a turn?
Well.
Because you're great friends.
You have been for ages.
We stuck out the back for a cigarette.
And yeah, just hold it there.
Okay.
We're going to take a break and come back.
I want to leave it on that dead dad.
What happens after the cigarettes?
Back with more of my exclusive interview with Sasha Walpole after the break.
Cliffhanger.
Welcome back to my exclusive interview with Prince Harry's first lover, Sasha Walpole, who, just to repeat, is only doing this because of him putting it in his book, Spare, all about this night at the pub.
So let's cut to the quick.
You're having a little crafty bag out the back.
Yep.
What happened?
Who makes the move?
He made the move.
Really?
Yeah.
Yeah.
I don't even really know why or what happened.
We just have a cigarette and then before you know it, it was all happening.
What was happening?
Well, he just started kissing me and then before you know it, it was all going on.
You start kissing.
Are you thinking this is weird?
Because you've been really good friends.
He is Prince Harry.
Yeah, I mean, I didn't see him as Prince Harry.
I see him as Harry as a friend.
And I think that's like quite a big difference.
And we were quite drunk.
So you just got to get away from it.
He loves me on a load of flaming sandbankers and Baileys, yeah.
Yeah, and then you get lost in the moment and then before you know it, it's, yeah, and then you wake up and get up the field.
Yeah, we get up and then this reality kicks in.
We're moving a bit too fast here.
So you go from smoking out the back of the pub to a field nearby.
Yeah.
Any particular reason?
Just to get out of the way of people, I think.
Presumably his security guys were there, right?
Yeah, yeah, they were there at the front.
They were just in the car park.
Trying to give them the slip?
Well, I think we had gone over the fence to have a cigarette away from everyone because he wasn't really meant to be smoking.
So yeah, we just hopped over the fence, seemed like a good idea at the time.
And the next thing, I mean, did you know as you were in Flagrante in the field that he was actually a virgin?
No, I didn't.
No.
I don't know why, but I didn't even think about it because it's never been in my mind before.
When did you find out?
Was it actually, was it only really confirmed by the book?
No, well, I suppose 100%, but I, yeah, you kind of people talk and then the next day it was apparent that, yeah, it was his first.
You were the chosen one.
I was indeed, yeah.
Does it feel weird talking about this?
It does, because it's just something that happened so long ago.
And to me, it's not a big deal.
I just, yeah, it's one of those things.
It's quite a big deal.
It is in the eyes of people, yeah, I suppose.
But like I said, I'd just seen him as a friend.
And if anything, it's just you've overstepped that line with a friend.
The entire collision lasted five minutes.
Yeah.
Probably at the higher end of expectation for men of that age, I would think, when they lose their virginity.
But what happened?
Was it awkward afterwards?
You went back to the pub, right?
Yeah, we kind of was like, oh, okay.
We decided to go separate ways.
So he went one way, I went the other, trying to make it look less obvious, but it doesn't really work.
Where were the security guys?
Well, at that point, they'd realised that he hadn't come out of the pub because it was closing time.
And yeah, they were looking for him and found him down the road, I think.
Did they ask what had been going on?
No.
No, he was kind of taken off and I went home.
You left your belt in the field?
I did, yeah.
I had to go back the next day when I collected my card to retrieve my belt.
And when you saw your friends when you got back to the pub, what did you say to them?
Nothing.
There was quite a few giggles and they kind of knew what had happened.
And I think they probably knew what was going on when the security had started looking for him.
But yeah, they just, no one really said anything.
I think everyone was just like, keep quiet and carry on.
You wake up in the morning, you're presumably quite hungover.
Yep.
And then is there that moment where you suddenly go, oh God, I've just remembered.
Yeah.
Yeah.
It's that cringe factor that creeps in and you're like, oh no, I've well and truly overstepped the mark.
Yeah.
What did you think to do then?
I mean, anything?
Did you try and contact him?
No, I thought I just need to go and get my car.
I probably had to go to work or get ready for work the next day.
So I just wanted to get all my stuff.
It was my birthday, so I probably had plans that day.
Who did you tell about what had happened?
I told my sister and I told my mum.
How did they react?
Okay.
They didn't weren't really phased.
My sister black.
Yeah.
Yeah, but they knew it was Harry.
They weren't thinking immediately, royal wedding, the balcony scene.
We're on it.
I think we're quite far from the royal wedding.
But yeah, no, I think, yeah, my sister, you know, she found it quite amusing, quite funny.
My mum, you know, she was just like, oh, okay.
And yeah, as long as I was safe and happy and not in any trouble.
Did your dad know?
Do you know, I think I brushed the comment over, but he would probably be alike, not listening, and it's not something that I'm going to go and make him listen to.
I just want to go, oh, yeah, I'm sitting with Harry and wandered off out the door.
I was like, I'm not going to sit him down and make him listen to what his 19-year-old daughter had done.
So yeah.
I mean, the weird part of the story for me is that you then have no more contact with Harry at all.
I mean, have this friendship, which then builds to this, you know, thrilling de noumar.
That's it.
You never see or speak to him again.
No, we haven't.
We haven't.
I, you know, there's no messaging.
There was nothing.
And it was kind of weird.
You think?
I think it's because foot of mouth was rife that summer, you know, and I think the social circles, they weren't happening as much because the polo wasn't happening.
Nothing was happening.
Everything was grounded.
Everything was stopped.
I had gone on.
You didn't naturally see each other.
No, no.
The normal group of people that would have been buzzing for the summer weren't here.
And at that point, I then went to a different nightclub.
We went over to Oscars at Longleat and I met my husband there.
You know, we got on and then my social circles moved to a different area.
Did you tell your husband?
I did, yes.
How did he react?
Well, he kind of knew because it was not long after all the pictures came out in 2001.
So it was kind of all around the same time.
He didn't really care.
Yeah, he wasn't faced.
I mean, it's fascinating to me that this is 21 years ago and that the last you ever see of Prince Harry is immediately after you've just had sex with him.
Meeting My Husband at Oscars00:15:45
Yeah, I know, strange.
It's sort of random, isn't it?
It is.
I mean, I don't know.
He was a young boy, so for him, it may have been mega-awkward.
You know, it's two friends that cross the line and it is always going to be a little bit awkward.
But if it's your first time, then you're probably finding it a little awkward.
There would have been a lot of people, Sasha, in your position, because you weren't from a wealthy family, right?
You've never had huge riches or anything.
A lot of people might have been tempted to have cashed in on their night of lust with Prince Harry.
You never did.
Why?
Because he was a friend.
He was a friend.
I didn't see it like that.
You kind of feel protective.
Not because of who he is, but I'm like that with all my friends.
But yeah, I just never occurred to you.
Never crossed your mind.
No, not really.
But that's a decency that's quite rare, actually, these days.
Yeah, well, you just, some things are just better left unsaid.
I mean, there's an iron, isn't there?
There's you being decent and wanting to protect him and his privacy.
Yeah.
And yet, it's only come out because he actually did the complete opposite in the book.
Yeah, yeah, I know.
It's you go back to the same thing of, you know, if you want privacy, don't write about it.
Don't speak about it.
But I don't know why he put it in his book.
Is it hypocritical, do you think?
A little bit, yeah, if I'm honest.
You know, it's something that he could have, if he had just put, oh, you know, about me losing my virginity and left it at that, it would have been fine because no one would have been none the wiser.
It was the fact that he added more to that story that everyone was like, haha, that's you.
Right.
And then it puts you in that position.
And it must be, I mean, a range of emotions, but one of them, it must be quite intimidating to be on the receiving end of suddenly knowing you're in this book, which is one of the biggest selling books in history.
Yeah.
And everyone's reading it and the media are getting more and more excited about who this person is.
And you know it's you.
Yeah.
So the clock is ticking to that knock on the door.
It is, yeah.
And it's like, it's one of those, at first you're in denial.
You're like, no, I don't, you know, it's going to be fine.
It'll pass over.
And like I say, the messages start coming in.
Everyone's starting to talk about it, which then pretty much doubles, if not triples, the people that know because then everyone's like, oh, I know who that was.
And, you know, people are asking, you know, family and friends, oh, yeah, we know who it is.
And then suddenly it's just the reality of this isn't going to go away.
Forever, this is going to flare up.
Until they know who it is, they're going to be questioning people.
And yes, I could not have said anything, but then it's never going to stop.
This isn't going to be a good thing.
Do you think he should have had the manners, honestly, to just have let you know it was going to be?
He could have given me a heads up of like, you know, I'm going to put it in the book.
Even if he didn't ask if it was okay, just at least give me an option of what to do about it.
Yeah, yeah, pretty much.
Let's take another break.
I want to come back.
I want to get your view.
I don't know what you think of the monarchy, of the royal family, of the late great queen, King Charles.
And what do you think about Megan and Harry now living this life over in California?
What do you feel about them?
Because Sasha Walborn, now we want to know your views.
We'll be back after a break with more from my exclusive interview.
Well, welcome back.
Sasha Walpole, who took Prince Harry's virginity, is still with me.
Those words, every time you hear them, must be weird, right?
It is weird, Joe.
What did your family make of it when it all blew up in the last like two weeks?
They were quite calm, quite sort of okay, what you knew about it.
My mum knew, my dad didn't.
It wasn't until I had a bit of a conversation with him.
It became apparent he had no idea what I was on about.
And then I spoke to mum and was a bit like, well, I don't think dad knows.
And she's, I'll just check.
And then she's like, no, he didn't know.
Which was really awkward.
I mean, half for any dad, but then his daughter's all over the front page of the paper for taking Prince Harry's virginity.
That's quite a moment to wake up to that.
It is.
Yeah, especially when you know it's your daughter.
At first, you're just thinking, oh, well, okay.
And then when you realise it's someone you know and love, it's a bit different.
But was he annoyed at Harry for nothing?
No, he wasn't.
I mean, they're massively supportive.
And their main concern is I'm happy, I'm safe.
They said they'll support me either way, whether I was to speak out or whether if I was to keep it a secret, either way, they would try and do damage limitation and just, you know, be there for me.
Your kids are too young.
They're only five and three.
But how did your husband react to it all being public?
I think he was as shocked as me.
Obviously, he knew about it, so it was no great big secret.
But if he didn't know, it would have been probably really awkward.
But yeah, I think the fact that he knew, he just kind of laughed and was like, oh, what are we going to do?
It's been an amazing, you know, two years really for the monarchy, really, since I think Prince Philip died and then the Queen died and we've now got the coronation coming.
Are you a big monarchist?
I am, yeah.
I do like our royal family.
Yeah.
What do you make of what's been going on with them?
I think it's sad.
I think it's sad with any family, regardless if you're a royal or whoever.
As soon as there's a bit of conflict in between family, it's sad.
It is sad.
I'm lucky.
I have a good family and I have, you know, my sister's amazing, so we're all really close.
So I can really imagine how they would feel.
Especially for you.
I mean, being in the pub with William and Harry and seeing them young and obviously very close then.
Yeah.
Particularly, probably the closest they'd been was in the aftermath of their mother's death.
To see them now completely having this rift and completely apart, that is really sad, I think.
It is, yeah.
I mean, I've tried not to follow it too much, but I do feel that, yeah, like I say, with any family, any conflict is sad because life's too short.
Yeah.
Life's too short.
If you were in the pub with them now, what would you say to them?
Life's too short.
You know, just swite your differences and, you know, just chat.
But I probably would never be in the pub with the two of them again.
You never know.
You never know.
Maybe.
You never know.
I mean, I think Harry owes you a drink.
Yeah, just not a treasure shot.
What do you think of Meghan Markle?
His bride?
Again, I...
They share a lot in common.
I mean, we do, yeah.
We both refer him as H.
But yeah, I don't know.
I just gone from a digger to a gold digger.
Yeah, you could like that.
I don't know.
Like I say, I sit on the fence.
I don't know the lady.
I wish him all the best.
I wish him the happiest.
Does he seem happy to you?
He's not the boy that I remember.
That's for sure.
But again, I'm not in his shoes.
I have no idea what's going on in his head.
I haven't seen him for 21 years, but you know, you make your own happiness.
Do you have a view of Megan?
I don't really, no, because I don't know her.
Apart from obviously, you know, what you hear or whatever, but I'm wondering.
Do you think he's traded up from you or down?
Definitely down.
I don't know.
By the way, I agree.
I certainly should have stayed with someone like you.
Oh, thank you.
You might have been a lot happier, I think.
Yeah, it would have been funny.
Yeah, what do you think of King Charles with the coronation coming?
I think it's amazing.
Yeah.
Did you ever meet him in those days?
Yeah, I did.
Obviously, I can't really say too much about it.
He did.
He was a lovely guy.
Just to be clear, you signed an NDA.
Have you worked as a groom at Harvard?
I did, yeah.
Like everybody who works there, so that's why you can't talk about your employment.
No.
As a man, how did you find him?
Did you bring good hands with him as our monarch?
Yeah.
Yeah.
He's, yeah, personally, I think he's a lovely guy.
Yeah, and I think same as William.
I think, you know, you couldn't ask for anyone nicer, really, but that's my own view.
And they treated me really well.
What happens to you now?
I mean, you talked about earlier about, you know, going back under your rock.
Is that what you want to do?
Yeah, I kind of, I think this is a means to an end.
You know, I just, it's done.
I don't have to worry.
You know, when it all flares up, everyone knows it's done, it's dusted.
I can go back to living my normal little life, driving my diggers, being happy, and not having to look over my shoulder and open my door one day and hundreds of cameras being there.
I just always been slightly in the back of your mind.
It has.
I think, as any mother would know, when you have little kids, your protective side comes out.
And I think to take control of this, you have to come out and control it because otherwise one day you're just going to wake up and you're going to have no control and you know you've got this damage limitation.
Yes.
And I think you've limited the damage extremely well actually.
Hopefully.
Because you come over just as a decent person.
Yeah.
Who didn't want any of this, had your privacy invaded, again, ironically, by the Prince of Privacy.
We just saw a picture of you in the digger.
Let's get that back up because I just don't look at you and think this is someone who drives these monstrous diggers.
You obviously love it.
I do, I do.
I mean, I worked as a groom for quite a while and then obviously the hours and stuff and dad has always done groundworks and he kind of said to me, well, I said to him, I didn't know what I want to do anymore.
So he said, well, work for me until you know what you want to do.
And back then, being a girl on site is a little bit strange.
I can remember having to put my hair up and wear a coat.
But I love it.
I love it.
And I think that, you know, it's a real opportunity for other females to maybe come out, come and do building work.
It's brilliant.
It's a great place to be.
What does it mean to you to be British?
I said a little bit at the start though, that to me, someone like you represents old-fashioned British values.
You know, the fact that you had dignity and decency, you didn't sell your story, you didn't betray this great secret that you could have done at any moment.
To me, that's kind of old-fashioned British values.
I mean, I was brought up with, you know, you work hard, you play hard.
You know, you don't air your dirty laundry and you know, you mind your own business.
You don't get involved in something that you don't want to get involved in.
And I just think, yeah, I just, I think it's just where I've been brought up.
You're quite looking forward to going back to relative anonymity again.
I am, yes.
Yep, I'm quite looking forward to getting back in my digging.
Have you ever been back in that pub?
No.
Are you going to?
Probably not.
No, probably not.
You must have had other friends who knew nothing about this.
Who've now picked up the the sun?
Yeah.
And seen you all over the front page and go, what?
Yeah, I mean, it's something I rarely talked about.
So obviously moving from where I lived with my parents to where I live now, a lot of my friends wouldn't even know that I knew Harry or had anything to do with the royal family back then.
So for them, it was a great shock when they seen my picture that had flared up when they were trying to find the lady.
And I was a little bit like, oh, yeah, that was many moons ago.
And then suddenly now it's front page of everything.
But do you know what?
It's like ripping a plaster off.
Really?
Yeah.
You feel relieved in a way.
It's done.
I don't have to worry.
I don't have to worry that people are going to turn up at my house and start asking me questions and I'm not ready for it.
You know, it's done.
If Prince Harry's watching this, maybe in Montecito in his mansion, what would you say to him?
I would say if you're about, hook up, let's have a drink, catch up, chill out, whatever.
Just be happy.
Do you think he even drinks flaming sandbooks anymore?
I don't know.
Probably not.
Looks like he needs one.
He does, yeah.
Perhaps I should take him a tray of shots and just talk it over.
I actually think he needs a tray of shots.
And he needs a bit of old kind of West Country common sense.
He does, yeah.
Don't you think?
Of West Country happiness.
I feel like he just needs a bit of straight talking from someone who knew him in his old life.
Yeah, I mean, like I said, I haven't seen him for 21 years and I'd be more than happy to sit down and talk it out, but he probably wouldn't want to know.
What advice would you give him?
Just be happy.
Life is too short.
And make up the decision.
Make your battles.
Make it.
Yeah.
Sometimes silence is better than nothing.
But yeah, we'll see.
Well, listen, it's been great to meet you.
Yeah.
I didn't even know who you were a week ago.
Now we all know who you are.
No, I know.
And you're going to have to live with that.
It's a weird thing to have to live with.
It is.
But you've talked about it very, I think, with great modesty.
And I completely understand why you've decided to talk out because otherwise it just happens anyway, right?
It is.
It's either you control it or it controls you.
And, you know, this way it leaves everyone else alone.
They know who it is.
Job done.
Sasha, back to your digger.
Thank you.
It's lovely to meet you.
And you.
And thank you very much.
Thank you.
Well, after the break, my reaction to Sasha's interview and my royal pack.
So don't go anywhere.
Well, well, welcome back to Piers Morgan Sensor.
Joining me now to discuss that extraordinary interview is Vanity Affairs Katie Nichols, the son of Matt Wilkinson, and author and historian Dr. Tessa Dunlop.
So Katie Nicoll, I mean, it feels weird to be interviewing a woman about taking someone's virginity.
Yes, there were some good questions in that episode.
So let's start with that, right?
Because it is a weird interview to be doing at all.
But I thought the reason that she has come forward made complete sense to me.
And I also felt there was a kind of controlled anger, really, that her privacy, and this is so ironic, had been invaded by Harry without even a thought, really, for the repercussions for her, for her having to be made public and so on.
What did you make of it?
Well, I think this is the first time when you got to give Harry some credit because for me, if he was going to choose anyone to lose his virginity with, what a cracker of a girl.
Because she kept her secret for all those years.
She was loyal, she was discreet, she's been magnanimous, she's been generous.
She didn't have a pop at him.
She says what we're all thinking, which is, how can you be so hypocritical and invade someone else's privacy whilst invading your own?
But she did it with such dignity.
What a lovely girl.
So actually, I think I've got to take my hat off to Prince Harry because I don't think he could have chosen a better girl to have lost his virginity to.
It is the text, but way to lose your virginity.
Way better, incidentally, than all his ancestors who had vicarious means that they indulged in during World War I and so forth.
Much better to have a hearty bonk in a field.
I mean, I'm kind of wishing I could go back and redo my own narrative.
We're all thinking that is consensual friendship, bit of alcohol.
And as for cutting off the relationship, I mean, does anybody stay in contact with their first shag peers?
Did you?
For a while.
I don't think it was quite as unceremonious as that, yeah.
Really?
But I know what you mean.
I mean, it is spectacularly awkward for a young man the first time it happens, particularly if it's in that kind of situation.
And he probably was just too embarrassed to ever think about it again.
Well, he was the first to raise it, of course.
Well, of course, until the book.
It's amazing that she was just sitting there on tabloid gold for 20 odd years, you know, and it's taken Harry to actually describe this liaison for her actually to come forward.
Well, for Harry to cash in on it with his book, which has made him millions, to cash in on his virginity and invade the privacy of the woman he had it with.
I mean, there's another way of describing it.
That's what he's done.
It is breathtakingly hypocritical, just from a media perspective.
Yeah, no, it is.
I mean, I'll say, if we had got hold of that story 20 odd years ago, we would have had a deluge of legal letters from.
Of course, he'd have been the first squealing about it.
Tessa, I know you're in defend him at all costs, Cam.
But even you must think it was a bit off.
Yeah, I mean, there are bits of the book that hit some of the wrong notes, given the message she has historically tried to push.
But lest we forget the agency in this narrative, Harry didn't name her, he didn't name the pub.
He didn't even describe the public.
He had named the pub in other parts of the world.
And there was quite a lot of detail in there, too.
So I mean, she was getting messages immediately from all the local people at the time who all knew it was her.
Right.
And it's quite a tight set, normally a polo lot.
The Hypocrisy of the Funeral00:09:08
They'd all sat on the secret for a very long time.
So who is the third party that really pushed this downstream?
It is.
And I'm sitting next to a tabloid editor.
I'm beside a former one.
And here we have...
Don't tell me it's the media fault.
Oh, it's Sandania!
Oh, well, let's get in there before Prince Harry does, because his default position is always, when in doubt, blame the media.
We didn't say that the royal family are racist.
The media said that.
And obviously, Harry has actually been the biggest source of royal news over the last 45 months.
Well, I haven't had to do any work.
He's just sat there and I'm not sure.
The veggie's royal gossip in history has turned out to be the one who's bleated the most about privacy.
The one who's breached the privacy of the most amount of people when it comes to the royals and all the royal circle.
I was with somebody at the weekend who's a good friend of some of the royal family and had been with them.
And apparently all Harry's wider circle of old friends, they're just completely open-mouthed that for 20 years they, like Sasha, have got out of their way to protect him, never giving interviews, hiding stories, protecting him physically on nights, getting him out of clubs and bars when he's in trouble and so on.
Only for him to then have all this stuff in the book, talking about taking drugs with people, talking about getting this and that and the other.
They're all open-mouthed at what they see, Tessa.
This is not me saying it, I would anyway, but what they see is just complete hypocrisy.
I hear you.
There's complexities.
I think complete hypocrisy in the idea of trying to...
I think it is complex.
And I think what was charming about Sasha, and by the way, I think the whole nation is now thinking, why couldn't he have just done the old-fashioned thing and married her?
Imagine.
Super they will.
I know my mum will be watching, oh, she was a lovely girl.
Why couldn't he have married someone?
If only.
But it's not binary.
There isn't really a baddie or goodie in this story.
Actually, I don't agree.
I don't agree.
There's two consensual teenagers who had sex and both of them.
Oh, in this particular story, right?
And both of them made a bit of money.
In the end, it's actually, I think, rather charming.
And I know that Sasha felt, because she's a decent stick, my goodness, there's earthquakes and wars.
And why are we talking about this?
Again, I would have to say that's a media agenda.
But actually, it's a bit of light relief.
And I refuse to say this is tawdry and uncomfortable.
It's actually quite an upbeat story.
In a weird way, it's kind of a vindication, a way of being modern and young and carefree.
Well, that's one way of calling a pub bonk.
No, Nicole, I mean, look, I think we're slightly over-regging the defensive souvlé there.
I think that the key charge I would make about Harry with this book is that it goes against everything he himself has railed against the media.
I know, I know.
I can't hold it.
I can't say to that because I put this to his camera.
What they say is, but this is on his terms.
This is in his words.
This is on his terms.
This is his chance to answer that.
It's that whole reclaiming the narrative story again.
And actually, I think most people think, don't have a problem with it, but they might have a problem with it.
Had Sasha not been as generous as she had been.
Let's just say she had had a problem with it.
Let's just say it had caused her big problems in her life.
Then I think we'd be surprised.
What did she say?
She's never told her husband.
When you asked her that question, it was exactly what she had to do.
She never told her parents.
I mean, what if that had been the case?
Harry didn't know.
No.
He had no idea whether she was told that she had to be able to do that.
Well, he didn't contact her.
She said as he was.
He did no way.
But he doesn't name her.
And it is an ingloria.
Listen, she had a lot of people.
Look at the hold on her door, Tessa.
Okay, but lots of people were knocking on her door.
And she could have said, I'm not the old woman.
I was only 18.
Do shut up.
It was a quick snob.
No, no, no.
I mean, she couldn't.
Her name was being passed to the papers.
Okay, but the papers.
You've named it, the papers.
Well, someone calls, of course.
Because Harry's argument is it was like half zoo, half Truman show.
We were discussing this.
And actually, this one innocuous paragraph on his loss of- It's not innocuous to say has led to a Truman show.
All of us are talking about a bonk, a teenage bonk show.
Matt, I want to bring in just the wider picture.
We're heading towards the coronation.
And putting aside the virginity story to one thing, I think it exposes the hypocrisy, but I also agree with Tessa that in a way it doesn't really matter.
Sasha seems completely well adjusted by it.
She told everyone he needed to know, no one's dead.
There are more important things in the world.
Did you disagree with me?
Almost, almost.
But let's talk about the wider story about Harry.
As we head towards this coronation, which is coming up fast now, we're only a few weeks away from it.
It's going to be a glorious celebration on one level, but we still don't know whether Harry and Megan are going to be sitting there amongst a family they've spent the last two years now trashing on the global stage.
Well, it's the thing.
It's got to be the Charles and Camilla show.
It can't be the Harry and Megan circus.
But if they're there, it will be.
But I think they will need reassurances that Harry isn't going to do any more interviews between now and May the 6th.
What about afterwards with all the information he...
I mean, this is a guy, I remember, the thing that shocked me about the book was not all the trivial stuff at all.
It was the fact that even at Prince Philip's funeral, he's revealing intensely private conversations with William and Charles to the world against their wishes.
They didn't do anything about this.
They'd have definitely said no.
And yet he expects to be at the coronation from what I've read, sitting amongst them again, having conversations.
How would they trust him?
I wouldn't trust a family member in that situation.
It's interesting because I take up with Tessa on here because although Sasha came out, has come out and told her story, but there's plenty of other people like William, like Charles, like Cressida, his ex-girlfriend.
I think he's speaking about other people in this book that haven't come out and spoken.
Like William hasn't come out and defended himself, have been able to defend himself against things.
Or his wife or his father.
I mean, and also what about that poor matron?
I mean, I really did feel for her, actually, Tessa, because we don't even know if that matron at his prep school is alive or dead or whether she's got family who are around who may have read this.
But it was so hurtful the way he talked about that matron.
And so, like, again, I come back to the hypocrisy.
This is a guy portraying himself as this be-kind feminist, basically taking down a defenceless matron for her looks.
Really, I mean, it was unpleasant, wasn't it?
Yeah, but it was unkind.
It was unkind.
And it is a very interesting thing.
And misogynist, actually.
Yeah, and you know, we're sort of seeing the new look, feminist Harry, and that is really quite interesting.
Is he going to be at the coronation or not?
Do you think?
Look, I think he has to be.
I mean, I've said this to you before because I think there has to be that united family.
As I said to you before, and I'll say it to Tessa as well, just because Charles may feel obliged to invite him because it's his son and he feels guilty probably about what's gone on before with him and Camilla and Diana and so on.
That's his coronation period.
Hang on, but that's the key point.
It's not just Charles' coronation.
It's not a private family event.
It's a publicly funded event.
And actually, it's the people's coronation of their king.
And that's where I have a problem.
As one of the subjects, right, of this.
But then it goes back in his face.
I don't want to see these two money grabbers anywhere near it.
But you are a subject with a very loud voice.
You have a big platform.
It's coming from you, I might add.
Not exactly a shrinking violence.
And there are plenty of other subjects in this what should be a broad-shouldered, impartial monarchy.
Yeah, but you know, Tessa.
I don't want to see that.
I know, but not with a big role.
No, but Tessa, yeah, but you know, as well as I do.
If they turn up at this thing, it's all going to be about Meghan and Harry.
I think it's pressing.
Whereas if they're not there and they stay in California, actually, focus goes to the bottom.
Now, Matt will agree with me here.
It will be the press, won't it, that make Harry?
Well, do you know what?
We'll go back over the things then.
So when he came back for the Duke of Edinburgh's funeral, we know he kind of didn't behave himself very well because he had an argument with his father and his brother, you know, just hours after the funeral.
He came up for the Jubilee, he was put on the side, and he basically behaved himself and stayed away.
And then at the funeral, he was on good behaviour.
So if they can follow that blueprint, there may be a success.
But Charles won't want to appear childish.
He won't want to appear churlish by the same thing.
But he does have to remember, man.
He has to remember that actually it is the people's coronation of their king, right?
It's not a private family event.
And I think a lot of British people will share my view that they shouldn't be there.
Sorry, you trash your family that badly, that egregiously, and you trash the monarchy and you damage it.
All the poll ratings for all the royals have been taken a heavy dent in America, which is a key place for the monarchy, for its future, all taken a hit because of this book.
And you've just answered your own question.
If you want to reach outside of Britain's borders, they've got to be there.
How's it going to play to America?
Oh, we're not inviting the House of Montecito.
It would make us look so mealy-mastery.
The House of Montecito.
I just said that to annoy you.
All right, you've succeeded, the House of Bloody Montecito.
It's going to, listen, I think if he's not there, it will overshadow the event.
And I think, you know, maybe there will be a neat compromise.
Let's not forget it's, I think it's Archie's fourth birthday on that day.
It would be a very neat solution for Megan to stay at home with the children, perhaps not be there.
And I think it'd perhaps be more palatable for people if it's just a little bit of a challenge.
Well, look, we'll not overshadow it because it didn't overshadow the Jubilee, the funeral.
Inviting House Montecito00:00:42
No, but I've got a feeling this time it could do because of the book and the Netflix series.
Is Sasha Walpole going to get a front race?
Well, you know what, I would invite Sasha Walpole.
But also, can we just end on a positive note?
What a wonderful lady Sasha Walpole is.
What I call salt of the earth British.
So thank you, Harry, for introducing us to the channel.
And Harry Chattanooga, Harry Chester.
Thank you, Pat.
I appreciate it.
And Matt, thank you, Lucky Stars.
I didn't ask you where you lost your virginity.
I was tempted.
I was tempted.
I did in the green room.
I think we've had that conversation.
Good to see you.
That's it from me.
Next week there'll be a special guest or two in my seat as I'm off interviewing criminals.
I'm back on February the 20th from New York City with some big guests there.